August 26, 2025 • 42 mins
John Legend is one of only 21 people to achieve EGOT status. But before the global acclaim, he knew what injustice looked like – up close.
In this episode of My Legacy, John opens up to hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger about the systems that failed his family, and the fight to fix them. With his plus one, Dr. Andre Perry, a leading scholar on housing and equity, John shares how they’re rewriting what it means to build wealth, invest in community, and live your values.
- John’s personal story of growing up with economic instability
- Dr. Perry’s powerful explanation of redlining and housing discrimination
- What HUMANLEVEL is doing to bring equity into local government
- How John and Chrissy raise their kids with purpose and presence
Don’t miss an episode – subscribe now to catch new episodes every Tuesday and bonus content every Thursday. And watch full episodes on YouTube every Wednesday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're gonna get personal. Let's go, Let's Go.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
John Legend is a global superstar, a groundbreaking activist and
one of only twenty one artists to achieve EGOT status.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And the Oscar Goes Too.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Winning an Emmy, Grammy Oscar and Tony. But behind the
music was a childhood marked by struggle and systems that
failed his community.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
My mother either spent some time in our local jails
as she was struggling with drug addiction and mental health
issues during my teen years. As I think about how
I make change now, I'm always considering the family I
came from, the community I came from and seeing what
I can do to change those systems.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And through it all, it's the family he built that
keeps him grounded and laughing.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Kids have a unique way of holding our feet to
the fire.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Chrissy's always been good at roasting me and a Luna
has taken on some of that, so whenever she doesn't
like my outfit, she'll let me know.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Join host Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger for a deeply moving conversation
about family resilience and finding hope in the hardest places.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
We want to speak up, even when it may be against.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
What Welcome to My Legacy. Today's guest is John Legend.
The legacy he's building goes far beyond his soulful music
that's connected with millions around the world. John has spent
two decades using his platform to fight for criminal justice reform,
invest in education and housing, and build racial equity across
(01:37):
American cities and communities. John, We're honored to have you
with us here today and on this show My Legacy.
We always ask a guest to bring someone who's deeply
meaningful in their life, someone who they have connected with,
someone who they admire. John, could you do us the
honor of introducing who is your plus one with us
here today?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Well, you are right that this person has meant a
lot to me, and we've worked together. I've learned a
lot from him through his great research that he and
his team are doing. But I'm introducing doctor Andre Perry.
He is a scholar, a researcher, but he also goes
(02:16):
beyond that and is a real leader in making change
happen in our communities.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
All across the country.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
He studies things like well being and closing racial gaps,
especially the racial wealth gap, and we've been able to
collaborate together to inspire and to fund change that's happening
all around the country and our cities and our states.
(02:46):
And I'm very excited to have him with me today.
We can all learn from him, like I get to
learn from him all the time. So excited to present
doctor Andre Perry.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Well that was great, but thank you John for that
wonderful introduction.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
Andre. I love that John is calling you his teacher. Frankly,
that's pretty cool. It's got to pitch yourself moment a
little bit.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Oh it is. Oftentimes I get to present a little
bit before John on the stage, and I always say,
it's a pleasure to be the opening act or John.
But I learned from him. He actually had the background
that's similar to mine. I mean, he was a consultant
(03:27):
for Boston Consulting Group, and so he put together all
the spreadsheets and the power point decks that I put together.
So we have very similar backgrounds, both professionally and and
there's some overlap personally. So it's always a pleasure to
work with him and learn from him.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Could you imagine what a Lost Wood mentioned of the
world if you had stayed h Could you actually take
us a little bit back to the journey before you
were a consultant, to actually your childhood. What was so
influential in your own journey to become such a passionate
advocate for equity, for equality, for the fight that you've
taken on.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Well, I grew up in a town called Springfield, Ohio.
I grew up in a working class neighborhood. My father
was a factory worker. He was an autoworker, so he
was a union member UAW. My mother stayed at home
with us, and she homeschooled us for quite a few
years during my grade school years. So both of them
really imbued values in US, character and us and also
(04:33):
stressed the importance of education. But I also knew what
it was like to have a family that was subject
to the ups and downs of the economy, especially in
the Rust Belt.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
With a father and a manufacturing job.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
We saw what it was like to, you know, get
laid off and have factories shut down, and have factories
decided that they didn't want as many employees as they
used to have. I personally experience what it's like for
a lot of people in America to feel like their
position in the country, their status in the country is
(05:10):
always in kind of a tenuous state, So they don't
know from week to week whether they're going to have
all the money and the food that they need.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
They don't know if they're going to.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Have all the support they need, their challenge finding good schools,
all of those things I think we experience as kids,
But I think at the time.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I didn't really understand systemic.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Issues and how my personal experience and the experience of
those around me was affected by policy and by choices that.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Our leaders make on our behalf.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And as I think about how I make change now,
I think I'm always considering the family I came from,
the community I came from, and seeing what I can do.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Along with people like doctor Perry to change those systems.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Were there any particular one moment or moments that made
you feel the impact, you know, like you felt as
John Legend little boy growing up, the impact of injustice
in the community that still influences you today.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
As I got older and into my teen years, I
saw some of my friends get caught up in incarceration,
get caught up in the criminal justice system. My mother
even spent some time in our local jails as she
was struggling with drug addiction and mental health issues during
my teen years, and I also as I got a
(06:39):
little older, had friends returning home and family members returning
home from state prison who were telling me how hard
it was for them to reintegrate, how hard it was
for them to get housing, to get a job, to
past background checks for all sorts of things, and basically
they were saying, it makes.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It so hard for us to provide for our families and.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Reintegrate back into the community that it almost pushed us
us back into crime because it makes it so hard
for us to participate in the legitimate economy. So seeing
those personal examples in my own life have informed so
much of my activism around these areas because I saw
the effects that it had on my family members. That
(07:24):
one of the stories is of the father of my
two of my nephews, so my sister's baby's father. He
was returning home from prison, and the impact that we
felt was the impact on my nephews, you know, seeing
that their dad couldn't provide for them and reintegrate back
(07:48):
into the community and seeing that effect that it had
on them, and wanting to make a difference, not because
I had any special love for this the father of
my nephews, because he did some things that we weren't
happy with in the way he treated my sister, But
I still wanted him to be able to be there
(08:09):
for his kids because they're my nephews and I care
about them. And so it's like, you want the person
to stop harming people, You want the person to face
consequences for harming people, but you also want them to
be able to reintegrate so they can be better and
be a better father and be a better community member.
(08:30):
And so I would see that on a personal level
and then translate that to how can I make a
difference on his systemic level?
Speaker 4 (08:39):
John, I can really hear in your voice how hard
that was.
Speaker 7 (08:43):
Andre you've spoken about your own personal loss, losing your
father while he was in jail and the instability that followed.
Can you share your story and how that has shaped
your work that you're involved in today.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Well, certainly, as a story was told to me before
I was born, there was a deal made between my
maternal grandmother and this woman in the hood named Elsie Boyd.
I call her mom. But the way the story goes
my mother at the time was very young. She was
fifteen when she had my older brother. She was seventeen
(09:24):
when she had me. She struggled with my biological father.
So mom did what a lot of matriarchs did at
the time. She took in kids. She took in myself,
my brother, she took in other kids that came along
the way that also struggled. And during the time US
(09:47):
Steel moved out of town, jobs left along with it.
People left, and my town hollowed out, and so there
wasn't a lot of opportunity. So my father, as was mentioned,
he got caught up in drug life. He was a
heroin addict. He was eventually in and out of jails,
(10:07):
in prison. He was eventually murdered inside of Jackson State Penitentiary,
which is a penitentiary outside of Detroit where he was born.
But you know, there was instability in some respect, but
Mom brought a lot of stability to my to my
(10:28):
my life. That and and I it's really seeded my
research because she's the closest thing to God, I know,
without question, without question. With that, even said she actually
owned a home, actually her son owned a home through
the GI bill. He was a GI he got to
(10:52):
have a home in which she essentially adopted the home
as well, and so she leveraged that asset to take
care of children all across the neighborhood. And so my
story is one certainly that fuels and inspires my research.
I have brothers and sisters who aren't related to me.
(11:15):
I consider John a brother, and in many ways I
write a lot about power, and for me, power is
about expanding your family, expanding the concept of family. But
we also have a responsibility to do for our family
members the same way Mom did for me, and the
(11:37):
same way my research should.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Do for others like follow and subscribe to my Legacy podcast,
and most importantly, share this with someone who needs a
reminder of their strength today Back in a moment, now
back to my legacy.
Speaker 8 (11:57):
John question to you, your activism has been nothing short
of profound and awesome. We're all awestruck of what you do.
Of course, for those who do not know who are
listening or watching. You focus first on inequality in the
education system. You worked on the school to prison pipeline issue,
and then of course you've also focused on the issue
of mass incarceration. Now you're putting all that you're culminating
(12:21):
all that insight, all that wisdom with human level. So
for those who are not familiar with human level, tell
us why is this so important and why are you
so passionate about it, and why is this the best
way in your mind to make the biggest impact.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Well, at human level, we're really focused on the community level.
We believe that these community level interventions are so key
to affecting how people actually live their lives and their
well being. So a lot of these issues are like
housing and neighborhood development, small business development, access to groceries
(13:01):
and access to services that you need in the community,
access to healthcare, and all these things that are really
fundamental to how people live their everyday lives. And so
often we focus on national politics, who's president, who's the
speaker of the House, who's the majority leader of the Senate,
(13:22):
and those are all important things, But when we think
about the interventions that affect people's daily lives, the walk
to the bus stop, their access to an affordable home,
the things that affect how daily life has lived for
so many people, a lot of those decisions are made
(13:43):
on a local level, and so at human level, our
focus is on placing fellows in the government who are
requested by the mayor or the city manager and asked
to come and work on specific issues that affect people
who are often marginalized and don't often have a seat
at the table. If the city's going to spend money,
(14:07):
if the city's going to make decisions about budgets and priorities,
then every community needs to have a seat at the table.
And we need people placed in city government whose mission
is to increase equity, whose mission is to make sure
that people who hadn't had a seat at the table
(14:28):
before are listened to. And we figure if we can
affect some of our largest cities with the highest concentrations
of population in the country, then we can really affect
the entire nation.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
I love the mission, I love the name, I love
every aspect of it because, to your point, so often
we're focused on the shiny federal or state, but where
real change happens is the grassroots. So Andre, can you
actually tell us but what is truly working at that
human level that John and all of you experience.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that we do together
is what we call walk the block, and our generally
general philosophy is we have to emphasize on things that
are working. Too often we point to the disparity, what's broken.
And by the way, no one invests in problems, they
invest in solutions. And then Detroit, we visited one community
(15:24):
it's called the Liveranoy six mile community where we actually
saw people leveraging municipal policy that enabled local residents to
purchase the actual property. There. They have a land bank
that that people in the community can actually go out
(15:45):
and and and purchase a property. But also there were
several investments in that area for everything from the street
skates to the facing of the buildings and investments in
developers who actually lived who live in that living Oy
(16:07):
six mile area. And so those investments, what it has
proven over time is now you have a vibrant community.
Education is up, employment is up, incomes are up, home
ownership is up. And guess what, there hasn't been displacement
across the board. And that's the reason why is because
(16:30):
the investments are going to community members and when people
have access to capital, they know what to do with it.
They build themselves and their communities overall.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
And the name of that type of program is called
buy back the Block. And we're seeing examples of that
throughout the country. And one of the key things, as
doctor Perry said, is that we're really letting the actual
community that's being affected by all this uh real estate
development and everything that's going on in their community, that
(17:06):
you know, has to walk by that boarded up building,
that has to experience the neighborhood on a daily level.
We're letting them make decisions, investment decisions together about how
to improve their neighborhood, what their priorities are.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
And John, I just want to add one other thing.
We visited Baltimore and we walked the block with a
developer named Lanier Richardson who's literally buying, buying these morbon
strip malls. But what he's doing, he's going from door
to door asking local residents do they want to become
(17:44):
investors in this property. The SEC Security Exchange Commission approved
these crowdfunding platforms for as residents for as little as
one thousand dollars can actually invest and co own the property,
and this is actually proven to be a solution. A
(18:06):
few weeks ago, it was announced that one of these
developments was was actually sold and the community members then
get dividends from that sale. But more importantly, it gets
to something John said when people own property, and and
mind you, these are largely residents who are descendants of
(18:29):
the enslaved. So people who were once owned now owning
property it means something. It changes the character of the place.
So this buy back the block, it's yeah. I mean
some people will look at it about wealth creation and
this and that, but it's about reimagining our neighborhoods, being
(18:53):
a part of our our neighborhoods, having a say in
your own recovery. It's it's it's it's such an important endeavor.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
So now, Andre you are a brilliant author, and I'm
going to ask you about a couple of your books,
but before that, I want you to put on your
professor orial hat. And because particularly now, when history has
been challenged in so many ways, can you give our
listeners a history lesson in redlining? Well, they understand how
(19:22):
we got here.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
I can actually explain it to a fourth grader. For instance,
people drew red lines around neighborhoods to determine that they
were unworthy of investments from the government. And this is
during a time and those red lines were drawn around
predominantly black neighborhoods. There were other people in those neighborhoods,
(19:47):
but wherever there was a predominantly black neighbor they were
drawing red lines around and saying this area is too
risky for investment. And that has reverberations today. Most people
know me through my research on housing devaluation, where we
found that homes and black neighborhoods are underpriced by twenty
(20:09):
three percent, about forty eight thousand per home. Cumulatively, they're
about one hundred and fifty six billion in lost equity.
And I always make this plane for people. What one
hundred and fifty six billion means one hundred and fifty
six billion would have financed more than four million black
owned businesses based upon the average amount black people use
to start their firms. Would have paid for more than
(20:30):
eight million four year degrees based upon the average amount
of a four year public education replaced. The pipes in Flint,
Michigan three thousand times over covered nearly all of Hurricane
Katrina damage. Is double the annual economic burden of the
opioid crisis. It's a big number, and that's just in housing.
And one of the things that I'm very proud of
(20:51):
this partnership with human Level and John is that we
recognize the metaphor that the sets are much more, much
stronger than they are priced that and we also recognize
that it's not the housing that's the value as much
as the people that are the value. So our job
(21:15):
is to uplift the people in the in the assets
in those communities because they're worthy of investment.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, and just to put a finer point on it,
With wealth, we talk a lot about the wealth gap,
and the largest driver of people's wealth in the United
States is home ownership and property ownership. And when black
people have been historically shut out of home ownership or
their home ownership has been devalued, that almost entirely explains
(21:47):
the wealth gap. Like you don't need any like extra factors.
We are discriminated against an income and jobs and things
of that nature, but almost the entire wealth gap can
be explained strictly when it comes to housing wealth. And
so whenever we've been historically discriminated against in that area,
that explains the wealth gap almost entirely, and.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Trying to address that any way that we.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Can is so crucial to addressing the wealth gap.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
So Martin, when your father sometimes would giving the Sunday sermon,
what would your what would your grandfather be famous for saying?
They get plain, so they get plain. And so I
have a question for you, Andrew. I want you to
make this plane because I know that your books, Know
(22:41):
Your Price and Black Scorecard really shows how America chronically
undervalues Black people and our homes. That's what we've been
talking about in order for our listeners to truly understand
the personal impact of that is there because in the
black community, it's something that we've known for you know,
we can nod. We understand that our homes. We could
(23:05):
have two homes right next to each other, and the
black home is undervalue next to our white neighbors. Your
book and your research though, put that put that out
there to the entire world. Was there one particular story
that you would like to share with our listeners so
that they can really understand from a person on a
heart level, the impact of this.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
Yeah. My brother Nathan Conley, who's a professor at Johns Hopkins,
he told me a story. They were attempting to get
their home appraised and they called me to say, hey,
should we remove all the black artifacts, the clothing, the artwork,
(23:45):
all those different things, and I told him it's a
sad reality, but I would do it. They did get
in a praiser the first time. They felt they were
low balled. They called another appraiser, but this time they
remove all the black artifacts. The second appraiser came in.
(24:06):
Now this is where they're a little bit of a
funny story. There's two aspects. One, they left a jar
of cocoa butter on the nightstand. The white was like, Oh,
the gig is up. She's yelling at Nathan. You ruined
(24:28):
the cocoa butter was there. But they also did one
thing and that might have saved them. They also put
a picture of blue eyed Jesus on the wad. I
call that appraisal Jesus. But but the but the appraisal
(24:50):
came back two hundred and sixty something thousand dollars higher. Wow,
which shows you the intrinsic value you of whiteness in
that car. Now, I rattled off some numbers, but let's
be real that two hundred and sixty thousand dollars, that's tuition.
(25:13):
That's starting a business, that's wanting if you want to
move to a better neighborhood, that's what it is. It's
life changing money. And this is the other thing that
I say in all my materials, like it keeps my
teeth white, that when things go wrong in black communities
(25:33):
we blame black people. We don't look at the wealth
that is extracted and the opportunity that extracted from everyday policies.
And I say, there's nothing wrong with black people that
ending racism can't solve.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I completely agree, completely.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Gone is right, Like if we can get rid of
rags of racism, will be so much better off. I mean,
so for me, it's like, let's stop blaming black people.
Let's stop blaming one other thing. One other of my
quotes is comes from Tic tech Nan and I say
(26:12):
this all the time. Dude who said the Vietnamese philosopher said,
if you're growing ahead of lettuce and the lettuce isn't growing,
you don't blame the lettuce. You look to see if
the soil is enrich if it's getting sunlight, if it's
getting rain water. You never blame the lettuce. But in things,
when things go wrong in black communities, we blame the immigrants,
(26:34):
we blame the teachers, we blame the like we got
to look at the structural and not blame and get
out this blaming game.
Speaker 8 (26:44):
We love it if you could share this episode with
someone who you admire, someone who shows up for you,
who cares about you, who lives their legacy every day.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
We'll be back in a moment. Now, back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Now, and your oldest daughter, Luna, I think is nine
years old.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah she's not.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Uh huh. We have a seventeen year old teenager. So
so just you wait, because.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I've heard about I've heard about these adolescents.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, I'm not particularly looking forward to it, but we'll
get through it.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
But you will.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
But you know the thing about it is that kids
have a unique way of holding our feet to the fire. Right,
So you know, she's not necessarily they're not impressed that
you are. They will come back to being impressed that
my dad is an egot winner. But until they get
to that point when you both come home at night,
you're just dad. So what are some ways in which
(27:42):
she's kind of held your feet to the fire.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Well, they make it clear that they want to be
made a priority. So you know, daddy's got concerts, daddy's
got work to do, But daddy's got to make sure
he shows up for them, and they're already expecting that
from me, and I want to deliver that for them.
But they'll definitely hold my feet to the fire. If
I can't make a performance or a game or something
(28:06):
like that, they'll let it be known that they're not
happy about it.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And you know, I need that.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Check on myself sometimes, not that I don't want to
be at those things, but you know, there are a
lot of competing scheduling things that are always happening, and
they remind me to make sure that they're a priority.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And then Chrissy's always been good at roasting me.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I think I think Luna has taken on some of that.
So whenever I'm getting dressed in the closet and she
doesn't like my outfit, she'll let me know. And she
she's not trying to flatter me. If she don't like
my office, she'll tell me right right there. And I
(28:50):
have a feeling there's a lot more of that to
come as she crosses into double dishes.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Yeah, And you know, it's so interesting because Martin's parents
were seen as a part partnership grounded in purpose, and
I have to tell you that for Martin and I
you and Chrissy give that same energy.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
We really are a partnership.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
We focus on some separate things philanthropically, but so much
of it goes.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Hand in hand with each other.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
And you know, she's got a food business, and she's
very focused on hunger as an issue and helping to
feed children, especially as an issue, and then as someone
who's gone through her own challenges when it comes to
reproductive rights, she's been very attuned to that issue. And
we collaborate as much as we can, and I think overall,
(29:42):
our kids see that we care about the world. We
want to speak up, even when it's not always the
most popular thing to do, even when it may be
against what those in charge want us to say.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
We have the courage to speak up, and.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Hopefully I'll take those lessons with them and have that
same kind of current.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Is that's something that both of you all were you
all both already individually active in social justice and communities
or is that a path that you all found together.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Well, you know, we met when I was in my
mid twenties and Chrissy was in her early twenties, so
you know, we were pretty young when we met. We've
been together we've been married for almost twelve years, but
we've been together for much longer than that, so we've
really grown up together. A lot of our adult lives
have been together, and so I think we learned from
(30:34):
each other. I was a little older than Chrissy, so
I think she saw a lot of the work I
was doing, and it helped her find her voice as
a philanthropist and as someone who's engaged politically, like Christy
just did a wonderful visit to a reproductive health center
(30:54):
in Memphis, Tennessee, and she's done visits in Atlanta and
other place places around the country, and she gets to
learn so much from folks who do this work every
single day. And we learn from each other that it's
so important to listen to folks who are doing the
work every day. Listen to activists. Don't come in there
(31:14):
thinking that just because you're the famous one and you're
the celebrity, that you have all the answers, but really listen,
really value the community that you're working with and their
lived experience, and learn from them, and then use your
platform to amplify what they have to say, amplify what they.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Need, and advocate for them.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
But always be listening first and learning first.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
You said that you all dated for a while. This
is a question because I how did you hear did
you hear my husband grown? Because I want to see
just one quick question, because I want to see did
you all beat our time dating or not? How long
did you date before you got married?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
So I proposed five years after we met, but we
didn't get married till exactly seven years after we met.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
So so to the day through the day we got married.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
We met on September thirteen, two thousand and six, and
we got married that weekend in twenty thirteen, seven seven
years later.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Well, the listeners of youers going to want to know
the answer out of the question.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
What was the question.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Ten years?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Ten years?
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Which yeah, yeah, which?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Always loved that.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
We were young when we started dating, like I said,
And Chrissy was young. I met her when she was
twenty about to turn twenty one, and so you know,
we still had growing up to do before we were
ready to get married. But I feel like it all
happened when it was supposed to.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
My father delivered Yeah. I have a dream speech sixty
two years ago this month, and every year I ask
myself if we're closer toward achieving his dream, are we
getting further away? What is the one thing and this
is actually to both of you, that it would have
(33:11):
the greatest impact on making my dad's dream a reality.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
Wow, you know that's that's big. I tend to focus
on housing largely because it's it's connected to so many
other social systems. When you live in an area where
home ownership is higher, you literally live longer, you have
higher levels of well being, less likely to be incarcerated,
(33:38):
more likely to own a business. Because we know what
equity equity can can do. Home ownership is such a
critical piece of excelling as a community. And I think
doctor King would would have won it, and he did
(33:59):
want housing equity, making sure that people had an opportunity
to own a home, not just from the wealth building
aspect of it, that it really does build community. And
then related to that, and I mentioned it, I do
(34:20):
believe that we can build enough wealth where people can
have well being that every the kind of well being
that everyone deserves. Closing wealth gaps. We talk about closing
the wealth gap that will that's going to take some
time and some generations to do to do that. In
the meantime, we can expect people to have a certain
(34:44):
quality of life that where they're fulfilled, that they're enriched,
where they can pass on something to their children. So
this work that John and I are doing, it's around
well being because as a meta trip, we don't have
to wait for generations for people to have the kind
(35:06):
of well being they can get tomorrow. We can implement
housing policy, we can implement education policy. We can do
some things today that will provide the kind of well
being that's sustained families and entire communities overall. Well.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
I think a lot about your father's phrase, the beloved community,
and what it means to have love for one another,
and how that love is translated into policy, And like
doctor Perry's referring to, we can translate love into fair
housing policy and thinking.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
About community building, but we can also.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Translate it into issues like war and peace, whether or
not we are sending bombs to destroy communities that aren't
part of our country.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
But are part of a larger beloved community.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
When it comes to discrimination, doctor Perry said, there's nothing
wrong with black people that ending racism wouldn't fix.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Part of what it means to love one another is
to not be racist.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
It sounds so simple, But to not discriminate against people
because of the color of their skin, to not treat
them worse, to not deny them resources, to not praise
their home at a lower level because of the color
of their skin. It sounds so simple and maybe even pedantic.
(36:37):
But if we were to love one another in that way,
that we stopped being racist and stop making black people
pay for racism, we would be a lot closer to
doctor King's dream. And then you would see the impact
when it comes to how we treat our Latino brothers, and.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
When it comes to immigration, and.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
So many problems that we have in our country and
in our world would be solved if we took your
father's advice and created a beloved community that included everybody,
and we treated all of our neighbors with love and
care and valued their lives like God values their lives.
Speaker 6 (37:28):
Well.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
Andre. In fact, as we get close to closing, I
actually want to hand some of the final words to you,
just following what you just talked about there for a moment,
because we all know John, and the world knows John.
It's this incredible legend.
Speaker 6 (37:39):
Literally literally.
Speaker 5 (37:44):
In the case, he picked out of everyone in the world.
He picked you as is plus one as the person
who he felt that connection with, and that means just
the depth of the friendship that you hold in the
respect he holds for you. And so he gave this
beautiful tribute to you at the beginning. Andrea, I actually
want to hand it back to you. You know him
on a level that few others in the world. You've
(38:07):
seen him in the community. Can you share with us
what he means to you? And maybe a moment, well,
he did something so amazing the rest of the world
didn't know, but you saw it and you saw it matter.
Speaker 6 (38:18):
Oh, there's a couple of things. One of the lessons
that I try to impart through my work it revolves
around what it means to be successful, and we certainly
are in a time where individual success is elevated beyond
community success. You know, a lot of my work we
(38:40):
focus on median wealth of the community, whereas the rest
of the country is worried about how many billionaires are
presented in the Forbes, in all the other magazines. You know,
what John is doing is showing what ultimately what wealth
(39:01):
and characters about is what you do with the assets
that you have. Are you going to try to make
lives better with it. Are you or you? It's easy
to get rich and extract from communities, we really do
have to recalibrate what it means to be wealthy in
(39:21):
this in this country. And John is living by example,
risking his livelihood, his riches can sacrificing his time, his
energy to uplift others. And I won't give the personal details,
(39:42):
but when I was going through struggles, it was he
who confided in me about his family struggles early on.
That helped me then relay that information to my son.
And you know, on one of our trips, I believe
it was Cleveland, my son was in the sprinter van
(40:03):
as we went from neighborhood to neighborhood, and he engaged
with my son in significant ways. And so not only
is his work really looking to uplift people at a
communal level, he will reach out to people at a
personal level. And I will always exalt not anyone, but
(40:29):
particularly celebrities, because exposure is now this currency that people want,
and they just want the exposure, they don't want the
responsibility of giving back that comes along with it. And
so I can't say enough about his charity, his giving
(40:53):
his investment in communities. We need more people to do
the same.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
It well, gentlemen. Our gratitude to both of you for
reminding us the true power is expanding the concept of family.
That we got to invest in solutions and reimagine neighborhoods.
We made that happen at the human level, that we
have to be quality human beings and fundamentally we need
to be love. Thank you both for your incredible activism
(41:20):
and your life journey of impact and for living your legacy.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
Thank you so very much, Thank.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You, Thank you. That was beautiful. Really appreciate you all.
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share,
and follow us on at my Legacy movement on social
media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus
content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor
King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection.
(41:54):
A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and
executive producers Sam Heyward Come executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
We're gonna get personal. Let's go, Let's Go.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
John Legend is a global superstar, a groundbreaking activist and
one of only twenty one artists to achieve EGOT status.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And the Oscar Goes Too.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Winning an Emmy, Grammy Oscar and Tony. But behind the
music was a childhood marked by struggle and systems that
failed his community.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
My mother either spent some time in our local jails
as she was struggling with drug addiction and mental health
issues during my teen years. As I think about how
I make change now, I'm always considering the family I
came from, the community I came from and seeing what
I can do to change those systems.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And through it all, it's the family he built that
keeps him grounded and laughing.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Kids have a unique way of holding our feet to
the fire.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Chrissy's always been good at roasting me and a Luna
has taken on some of that, so whenever she doesn't
like my outfit, she'll let me know.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Join host Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger for a deeply moving conversation
about family resilience and finding hope in the hardest places.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
We want to speak up, even when it may be against.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
What Welcome to My Legacy. Today's guest is John Legend.
The legacy he's building goes far beyond his soulful music
that's connected with millions around the world. John has spent
two decades using his platform to fight for criminal justice reform,
invest in education and housing, and build racial equity across
(01:37):
American cities and communities. John, We're honored to have you
with us here today and on this show My Legacy.
We always ask a guest to bring someone who's deeply
meaningful in their life, someone who they have connected with,
someone who they admire. John, could you do us the
honor of introducing who is your plus one with us
here today?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Well, you are right that this person has meant a
lot to me, and we've worked together. I've learned a
lot from him through his great research that he and
his team are doing. But I'm introducing doctor Andre Perry.
He is a scholar, a researcher, but he also goes
(02:16):
beyond that and is a real leader in making change
happen in our communities.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
All across the country.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
He studies things like well being and closing racial gaps,
especially the racial wealth gap, and we've been able to
collaborate together to inspire and to fund change that's happening
all around the country and our cities and our states.
(02:46):
And I'm very excited to have him with me today.
We can all learn from him, like I get to
learn from him all the time. So excited to present
doctor Andre Perry.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Well that was great, but thank you John for that
wonderful introduction.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
Andre. I love that John is calling you his teacher. Frankly,
that's pretty cool. It's got to pitch yourself moment a
little bit.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Oh it is. Oftentimes I get to present a little
bit before John on the stage, and I always say,
it's a pleasure to be the opening act or John.
But I learned from him. He actually had the background
that's similar to mine. I mean, he was a consultant
(03:27):
for Boston Consulting Group, and so he put together all
the spreadsheets and the power point decks that I put together.
So we have very similar backgrounds, both professionally and and
there's some overlap personally. So it's always a pleasure to
work with him and learn from him.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Could you imagine what a Lost Wood mentioned of the
world if you had stayed h Could you actually take
us a little bit back to the journey before you
were a consultant, to actually your childhood. What was so
influential in your own journey to become such a passionate
advocate for equity, for equality, for the fight that you've
taken on.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Well, I grew up in a town called Springfield, Ohio.
I grew up in a working class neighborhood. My father
was a factory worker. He was an autoworker, so he
was a union member UAW. My mother stayed at home
with us, and she homeschooled us for quite a few
years during my grade school years. So both of them
really imbued values in US, character and us and also
(04:33):
stressed the importance of education. But I also knew what
it was like to have a family that was subject
to the ups and downs of the economy, especially in
the Rust Belt.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
With a father and a manufacturing job.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
We saw what it was like to, you know, get
laid off and have factories shut down, and have factories
decided that they didn't want as many employees as they
used to have. I personally experience what it's like for
a lot of people in America to feel like their
position in the country, their status in the country is
(05:10):
always in kind of a tenuous state, So they don't
know from week to week whether they're going to have
all the money and the food that they need.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
They don't know if they're going to.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Have all the support they need, their challenge finding good schools,
all of those things I think we experience as kids,
But I think at the time.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I didn't really understand systemic.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Issues and how my personal experience and the experience of
those around me was affected by policy and by choices that.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Our leaders make on our behalf.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And as I think about how I make change now,
I think I'm always considering the family I came from,
the community I came from, and seeing what I can do.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Along with people like doctor Perry to change those systems.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Were there any particular one moment or moments that made
you feel the impact, you know, like you felt as
John Legend little boy growing up, the impact of injustice
in the community that still influences you today.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
As I got older and into my teen years, I
saw some of my friends get caught up in incarceration,
get caught up in the criminal justice system. My mother
even spent some time in our local jails as she
was struggling with drug addiction and mental health issues during
my teen years, and I also as I got a
(06:39):
little older, had friends returning home and family members returning
home from state prison who were telling me how hard
it was for them to reintegrate, how hard it was
for them to get housing, to get a job, to
past background checks for all sorts of things, and basically
they were saying, it makes.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It so hard for us to provide for our families and.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Reintegrate back into the community that it almost pushed us
us back into crime because it makes it so hard
for us to participate in the legitimate economy. So seeing
those personal examples in my own life have informed so
much of my activism around these areas because I saw
the effects that it had on my family members. That
(07:24):
one of the stories is of the father of my
two of my nephews, so my sister's baby's father. He
was returning home from prison, and the impact that we
felt was the impact on my nephews, you know, seeing
that their dad couldn't provide for them and reintegrate back
(07:48):
into the community and seeing that effect that it had
on them, and wanting to make a difference, not because
I had any special love for this the father of
my nephews, because he did some things that we weren't
happy with in the way he treated my sister, But
I still wanted him to be able to be there
(08:09):
for his kids because they're my nephews and I care
about them. And so it's like, you want the person
to stop harming people, You want the person to face
consequences for harming people, but you also want them to
be able to reintegrate so they can be better and
be a better father and be a better community member.
(08:30):
And so I would see that on a personal level
and then translate that to how can I make a
difference on his systemic level?
Speaker 4 (08:39):
John, I can really hear in your voice how hard
that was.
Speaker 7 (08:43):
Andre you've spoken about your own personal loss, losing your
father while he was in jail and the instability that followed.
Can you share your story and how that has shaped
your work that you're involved in today.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Well, certainly, as a story was told to me before
I was born, there was a deal made between my
maternal grandmother and this woman in the hood named Elsie Boyd.
I call her mom. But the way the story goes
my mother at the time was very young. She was
fifteen when she had my older brother. She was seventeen
(09:24):
when she had me. She struggled with my biological father.
So mom did what a lot of matriarchs did at
the time. She took in kids. She took in myself,
my brother, she took in other kids that came along
the way that also struggled. And during the time US
(09:47):
Steel moved out of town, jobs left along with it.
People left, and my town hollowed out, and so there
wasn't a lot of opportunity. So my father, as was mentioned,
he got caught up in drug life. He was a
heroin addict. He was eventually in and out of jails,
(10:07):
in prison. He was eventually murdered inside of Jackson State Penitentiary,
which is a penitentiary outside of Detroit where he was born.
But you know, there was instability in some respect, but
Mom brought a lot of stability to my to my
(10:28):
my life. That and and I it's really seeded my
research because she's the closest thing to God, I know,
without question, without question. With that, even said she actually
owned a home, actually her son owned a home through
the GI bill. He was a GI he got to
(10:52):
have a home in which she essentially adopted the home
as well, and so she leveraged that asset to take
care of children all across the neighborhood. And so my
story is one certainly that fuels and inspires my research.
I have brothers and sisters who aren't related to me.
(11:15):
I consider John a brother, and in many ways I
write a lot about power, and for me, power is
about expanding your family, expanding the concept of family. But
we also have a responsibility to do for our family
members the same way Mom did for me, and the
(11:37):
same way my research should.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Do for others like follow and subscribe to my Legacy podcast,
and most importantly, share this with someone who needs a
reminder of their strength today Back in a moment, now
back to my legacy.
Speaker 8 (11:57):
John question to you, your activism has been nothing short
of profound and awesome. We're all awestruck of what you do.
Of course, for those who do not know who are
listening or watching. You focus first on inequality in the
education system. You worked on the school to prison pipeline issue,
and then of course you've also focused on the issue
of mass incarceration. Now you're putting all that you're culminating
(12:21):
all that insight, all that wisdom with human level. So
for those who are not familiar with human level, tell
us why is this so important and why are you
so passionate about it, and why is this the best
way in your mind to make the biggest impact.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Well, at human level, we're really focused on the community level.
We believe that these community level interventions are so key
to affecting how people actually live their lives and their
well being. So a lot of these issues are like
housing and neighborhood development, small business development, access to groceries
(13:01):
and access to services that you need in the community,
access to healthcare, and all these things that are really
fundamental to how people live their everyday lives. And so
often we focus on national politics, who's president, who's the
speaker of the House, who's the majority leader of the Senate,
(13:22):
and those are all important things, But when we think
about the interventions that affect people's daily lives, the walk
to the bus stop, their access to an affordable home,
the things that affect how daily life has lived for
so many people, a lot of those decisions are made
(13:43):
on a local level, and so at human level, our
focus is on placing fellows in the government who are
requested by the mayor or the city manager and asked
to come and work on specific issues that affect people
who are often marginalized and don't often have a seat
at the table. If the city's going to spend money,
(14:07):
if the city's going to make decisions about budgets and priorities,
then every community needs to have a seat at the table.
And we need people placed in city government whose mission
is to increase equity, whose mission is to make sure
that people who hadn't had a seat at the table
(14:28):
before are listened to. And we figure if we can
affect some of our largest cities with the highest concentrations
of population in the country, then we can really affect
the entire nation.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
I love the mission, I love the name, I love
every aspect of it because, to your point, so often
we're focused on the shiny federal or state, but where
real change happens is the grassroots. So Andre, can you
actually tell us but what is truly working at that
human level that John and all of you experience.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that we do together
is what we call walk the block, and our generally
general philosophy is we have to emphasize on things that
are working. Too often we point to the disparity, what's broken.
And by the way, no one invests in problems, they
invest in solutions. And then Detroit, we visited one community
(15:24):
it's called the Liveranoy six mile community where we actually
saw people leveraging municipal policy that enabled local residents to
purchase the actual property. There. They have a land bank
that that people in the community can actually go out
(15:45):
and and and purchase a property. But also there were
several investments in that area for everything from the street
skates to the facing of the buildings and investments in
developers who actually lived who live in that living Oy
(16:07):
six mile area. And so those investments, what it has
proven over time is now you have a vibrant community.
Education is up, employment is up, incomes are up, home
ownership is up. And guess what, there hasn't been displacement
across the board. And that's the reason why is because
(16:30):
the investments are going to community members and when people
have access to capital, they know what to do with it.
They build themselves and their communities overall.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
And the name of that type of program is called
buy back the Block. And we're seeing examples of that
throughout the country. And one of the key things, as
doctor Perry said, is that we're really letting the actual
community that's being affected by all this uh real estate
development and everything that's going on in their community, that
(17:06):
you know, has to walk by that boarded up building,
that has to experience the neighborhood on a daily level.
We're letting them make decisions, investment decisions together about how
to improve their neighborhood, what their priorities are.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
And John, I just want to add one other thing.
We visited Baltimore and we walked the block with a
developer named Lanier Richardson who's literally buying, buying these morbon
strip malls. But what he's doing, he's going from door
to door asking local residents do they want to become
(17:44):
investors in this property. The SEC Security Exchange Commission approved
these crowdfunding platforms for as residents for as little as
one thousand dollars can actually invest and co own the property,
and this is actually proven to be a solution. A
(18:06):
few weeks ago, it was announced that one of these
developments was was actually sold and the community members then
get dividends from that sale. But more importantly, it gets
to something John said when people own property, and and
mind you, these are largely residents who are descendants of
(18:29):
the enslaved. So people who were once owned now owning
property it means something. It changes the character of the place.
So this buy back the block, it's yeah. I mean
some people will look at it about wealth creation and
this and that, but it's about reimagining our neighborhoods, being
(18:53):
a part of our our neighborhoods, having a say in
your own recovery. It's it's it's it's such an important endeavor.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
So now, Andre you are a brilliant author, and I'm
going to ask you about a couple of your books,
but before that, I want you to put on your
professor orial hat. And because particularly now, when history has
been challenged in so many ways, can you give our
listeners a history lesson in redlining? Well, they understand how
(19:22):
we got here.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
I can actually explain it to a fourth grader. For instance,
people drew red lines around neighborhoods to determine that they
were unworthy of investments from the government. And this is
during a time and those red lines were drawn around
predominantly black neighborhoods. There were other people in those neighborhoods,
(19:47):
but wherever there was a predominantly black neighbor they were
drawing red lines around and saying this area is too
risky for investment. And that has reverberations today. Most people
know me through my research on housing devaluation, where we
found that homes and black neighborhoods are underpriced by twenty
(20:09):
three percent, about forty eight thousand per home. Cumulatively, they're
about one hundred and fifty six billion in lost equity.
And I always make this plane for people. What one
hundred and fifty six billion means one hundred and fifty
six billion would have financed more than four million black
owned businesses based upon the average amount black people use
to start their firms. Would have paid for more than
(20:30):
eight million four year degrees based upon the average amount
of a four year public education replaced. The pipes in Flint,
Michigan three thousand times over covered nearly all of Hurricane
Katrina damage. Is double the annual economic burden of the
opioid crisis. It's a big number, and that's just in housing.
And one of the things that I'm very proud of
(20:51):
this partnership with human Level and John is that we
recognize the metaphor that the sets are much more, much
stronger than they are priced that and we also recognize
that it's not the housing that's the value as much
as the people that are the value. So our job
(21:15):
is to uplift the people in the in the assets
in those communities because they're worthy of investment.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, and just to put a finer point on it,
With wealth, we talk a lot about the wealth gap,
and the largest driver of people's wealth in the United
States is home ownership and property ownership. And when black
people have been historically shut out of home ownership or
their home ownership has been devalued, that almost entirely explains
(21:47):
the wealth gap. Like you don't need any like extra factors.
We are discriminated against an income and jobs and things
of that nature, but almost the entire wealth gap can
be explained strictly when it comes to housing wealth. And
so whenever we've been historically discriminated against in that area,
that explains the wealth gap almost entirely, and.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Trying to address that any way that we.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Can is so crucial to addressing the wealth gap.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
So Martin, when your father sometimes would giving the Sunday sermon,
what would your what would your grandfather be famous for saying?
They get plain, so they get plain. And so I
have a question for you, Andrew. I want you to
make this plane because I know that your books, Know
(22:41):
Your Price and Black Scorecard really shows how America chronically
undervalues Black people and our homes. That's what we've been
talking about in order for our listeners to truly understand
the personal impact of that is there because in the
black community, it's something that we've known for you know,
we can nod. We understand that our homes. We could
(23:05):
have two homes right next to each other, and the
black home is undervalue next to our white neighbors. Your
book and your research though, put that put that out
there to the entire world. Was there one particular story
that you would like to share with our listeners so
that they can really understand from a person on a
heart level, the impact of this.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
Yeah. My brother Nathan Conley, who's a professor at Johns Hopkins,
he told me a story. They were attempting to get
their home appraised and they called me to say, hey,
should we remove all the black artifacts, the clothing, the artwork,
(23:45):
all those different things, and I told him it's a
sad reality, but I would do it. They did get
in a praiser the first time. They felt they were
low balled. They called another appraiser, but this time they
remove all the black artifacts. The second appraiser came in.
(24:06):
Now this is where they're a little bit of a
funny story. There's two aspects. One, they left a jar
of cocoa butter on the nightstand. The white was like, Oh,
the gig is up. She's yelling at Nathan. You ruined
(24:28):
the cocoa butter was there. But they also did one
thing and that might have saved them. They also put
a picture of blue eyed Jesus on the wad. I
call that appraisal Jesus. But but the but the appraisal
(24:50):
came back two hundred and sixty something thousand dollars higher. Wow,
which shows you the intrinsic value you of whiteness in
that car. Now, I rattled off some numbers, but let's
be real that two hundred and sixty thousand dollars, that's tuition.
(25:13):
That's starting a business, that's wanting if you want to
move to a better neighborhood, that's what it is. It's
life changing money. And this is the other thing that
I say in all my materials, like it keeps my
teeth white, that when things go wrong in black communities
(25:33):
we blame black people. We don't look at the wealth
that is extracted and the opportunity that extracted from everyday policies.
And I say, there's nothing wrong with black people that
ending racism can't solve.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I completely agree, completely.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Gone is right, Like if we can get rid of
rags of racism, will be so much better off. I mean,
so for me, it's like, let's stop blaming black people.
Let's stop blaming one other thing. One other of my
quotes is comes from Tic tech Nan and I say
(26:12):
this all the time. Dude who said the Vietnamese philosopher said,
if you're growing ahead of lettuce and the lettuce isn't growing,
you don't blame the lettuce. You look to see if
the soil is enrich if it's getting sunlight, if it's
getting rain water. You never blame the lettuce. But in things,
when things go wrong in black communities, we blame the immigrants,
(26:34):
we blame the teachers, we blame the like we got
to look at the structural and not blame and get
out this blaming game.
Speaker 8 (26:44):
We love it if you could share this episode with
someone who you admire, someone who shows up for you,
who cares about you, who lives their legacy every day.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
We'll be back in a moment. Now, back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Now, and your oldest daughter, Luna, I think is nine
years old.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah she's not.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Uh huh. We have a seventeen year old teenager. So
so just you wait, because.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I've heard about I've heard about these adolescents.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, I'm not particularly looking forward to it, but we'll
get through it.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
But you will.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
But you know the thing about it is that kids
have a unique way of holding our feet to the fire. Right,
So you know, she's not necessarily they're not impressed that
you are. They will come back to being impressed that
my dad is an egot winner. But until they get
to that point when you both come home at night,
you're just dad. So what are some ways in which
(27:42):
she's kind of held your feet to the fire.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Well, they make it clear that they want to be
made a priority. So you know, daddy's got concerts, daddy's
got work to do, But daddy's got to make sure
he shows up for them, and they're already expecting that
from me, and I want to deliver that for them.
But they'll definitely hold my feet to the fire. If
I can't make a performance or a game or something
(28:06):
like that, they'll let it be known that they're not
happy about it.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And you know, I need that.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Check on myself sometimes, not that I don't want to
be at those things, but you know, there are a
lot of competing scheduling things that are always happening, and
they remind me to make sure that they're a priority.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And then Chrissy's always been good at roasting me.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I think I think Luna has taken on some of that.
So whenever I'm getting dressed in the closet and she
doesn't like my outfit, she'll let me know. And she
she's not trying to flatter me. If she don't like
my office, she'll tell me right right there. And I
(28:50):
have a feeling there's a lot more of that to
come as she crosses into double dishes.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Yeah, And you know, it's so interesting because Martin's parents
were seen as a part partnership grounded in purpose, and
I have to tell you that for Martin and I
you and Chrissy give that same energy.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
We really are a partnership.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
We focus on some separate things philanthropically, but so much
of it goes.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Hand in hand with each other.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
And you know, she's got a food business, and she's
very focused on hunger as an issue and helping to
feed children, especially as an issue, and then as someone
who's gone through her own challenges when it comes to
reproductive rights, she's been very attuned to that issue. And
we collaborate as much as we can, and I think overall,
(29:42):
our kids see that we care about the world. We
want to speak up, even when it's not always the
most popular thing to do, even when it may be
against what those in charge want us to say.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
We have the courage to speak up, and.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Hopefully I'll take those lessons with them and have that
same kind of current.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Is that's something that both of you all were you
all both already individually active in social justice and communities
or is that a path that you all found together.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Well, you know, we met when I was in my
mid twenties and Chrissy was in her early twenties, so
you know, we were pretty young when we met. We've
been together we've been married for almost twelve years, but
we've been together for much longer than that, so we've
really grown up together. A lot of our adult lives
have been together, and so I think we learned from
(30:34):
each other. I was a little older than Chrissy, so
I think she saw a lot of the work I
was doing, and it helped her find her voice as
a philanthropist and as someone who's engaged politically, like Christy
just did a wonderful visit to a reproductive health center
(30:54):
in Memphis, Tennessee, and she's done visits in Atlanta and
other place places around the country, and she gets to
learn so much from folks who do this work every
single day. And we learn from each other that it's
so important to listen to folks who are doing the
work every day. Listen to activists. Don't come in there
(31:14):
thinking that just because you're the famous one and you're
the celebrity, that you have all the answers, but really listen,
really value the community that you're working with and their
lived experience, and learn from them, and then use your
platform to amplify what they have to say, amplify what they.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Need, and advocate for them.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
But always be listening first and learning first.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
You said that you all dated for a while. This
is a question because I how did you hear did
you hear my husband grown? Because I want to see
just one quick question, because I want to see did
you all beat our time dating or not? How long
did you date before you got married?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
So I proposed five years after we met, but we
didn't get married till exactly seven years after we met.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
So so to the day through the day we got married.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
We met on September thirteen, two thousand and six, and
we got married that weekend in twenty thirteen, seven seven
years later.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Well, the listeners of youers going to want to know
the answer out of the question.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
What was the question.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Ten years?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Ten years?
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Which yeah, yeah, which?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Always loved that.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
We were young when we started dating, like I said,
And Chrissy was young. I met her when she was
twenty about to turn twenty one, and so you know,
we still had growing up to do before we were
ready to get married. But I feel like it all
happened when it was supposed to.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
My father delivered Yeah. I have a dream speech sixty
two years ago this month, and every year I ask
myself if we're closer toward achieving his dream, are we
getting further away? What is the one thing and this
is actually to both of you, that it would have
(33:11):
the greatest impact on making my dad's dream a reality.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
Wow, you know that's that's big. I tend to focus
on housing largely because it's it's connected to so many
other social systems. When you live in an area where
home ownership is higher, you literally live longer, you have
higher levels of well being, less likely to be incarcerated,
(33:38):
more likely to own a business. Because we know what
equity equity can can do. Home ownership is such a
critical piece of excelling as a community. And I think
doctor King would would have won it, and he did
(33:59):
want housing equity, making sure that people had an opportunity
to own a home, not just from the wealth building
aspect of it, that it really does build community. And
then related to that, and I mentioned it, I do
(34:20):
believe that we can build enough wealth where people can
have well being that every the kind of well being
that everyone deserves. Closing wealth gaps. We talk about closing
the wealth gap that will that's going to take some
time and some generations to do to do that. In
the meantime, we can expect people to have a certain
(34:44):
quality of life that where they're fulfilled, that they're enriched,
where they can pass on something to their children. So
this work that John and I are doing, it's around
well being because as a meta trip, we don't have
to wait for generations for people to have the kind
(35:06):
of well being they can get tomorrow. We can implement
housing policy, we can implement education policy. We can do
some things today that will provide the kind of well
being that's sustained families and entire communities overall. Well.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
I think a lot about your father's phrase, the beloved community,
and what it means to have love for one another,
and how that love is translated into policy, And like
doctor Perry's referring to, we can translate love into fair
housing policy and thinking.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
About community building, but we can also.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Translate it into issues like war and peace, whether or
not we are sending bombs to destroy communities that aren't
part of our country.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
But are part of a larger beloved community.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
When it comes to discrimination, doctor Perry said, there's nothing
wrong with black people that ending racism wouldn't fix.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Part of what it means to love one another is
to not be racist.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
It sounds so simple, But to not discriminate against people
because of the color of their skin, to not treat
them worse, to not deny them resources, to not praise
their home at a lower level because of the color
of their skin. It sounds so simple and maybe even pedantic.
(36:37):
But if we were to love one another in that way,
that we stopped being racist and stop making black people
pay for racism, we would be a lot closer to
doctor King's dream. And then you would see the impact
when it comes to how we treat our Latino brothers, and.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
When it comes to immigration, and.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
So many problems that we have in our country and
in our world would be solved if we took your
father's advice and created a beloved community that included everybody,
and we treated all of our neighbors with love and
care and valued their lives like God values their lives.
Speaker 6 (37:28):
Well.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
Andre. In fact, as we get close to closing, I
actually want to hand some of the final words to you,
just following what you just talked about there for a moment,
because we all know John, and the world knows John.
It's this incredible legend.
Speaker 6 (37:39):
Literally literally.
Speaker 5 (37:44):
In the case, he picked out of everyone in the world.
He picked you as is plus one as the person
who he felt that connection with, and that means just
the depth of the friendship that you hold in the
respect he holds for you. And so he gave this
beautiful tribute to you at the beginning. Andrea, I actually
want to hand it back to you. You know him
on a level that few others in the world. You've
(38:07):
seen him in the community. Can you share with us
what he means to you? And maybe a moment, well,
he did something so amazing the rest of the world
didn't know, but you saw it and you saw it matter.
Speaker 6 (38:18):
Oh, there's a couple of things. One of the lessons
that I try to impart through my work it revolves
around what it means to be successful, and we certainly
are in a time where individual success is elevated beyond
community success. You know, a lot of my work we
(38:40):
focus on median wealth of the community, whereas the rest
of the country is worried about how many billionaires are
presented in the Forbes, in all the other magazines. You know,
what John is doing is showing what ultimately what wealth
(39:01):
and characters about is what you do with the assets
that you have. Are you going to try to make
lives better with it. Are you or you? It's easy
to get rich and extract from communities, we really do
have to recalibrate what it means to be wealthy in
(39:21):
this in this country. And John is living by example,
risking his livelihood, his riches can sacrificing his time, his
energy to uplift others. And I won't give the personal details,
(39:42):
but when I was going through struggles, it was he
who confided in me about his family struggles early on.
That helped me then relay that information to my son.
And you know, on one of our trips, I believe
it was Cleveland, my son was in the sprinter van
(40:03):
as we went from neighborhood to neighborhood, and he engaged
with my son in significant ways. And so not only
is his work really looking to uplift people at a
communal level, he will reach out to people at a
personal level. And I will always exalt not anyone, but
(40:29):
particularly celebrities, because exposure is now this currency that people want,
and they just want the exposure, they don't want the
responsibility of giving back that comes along with it. And
so I can't say enough about his charity, his giving
(40:53):
his investment in communities. We need more people to do
the same.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
It well, gentlemen. Our gratitude to both of you for
reminding us the true power is expanding the concept of family.
That we got to invest in solutions and reimagine neighborhoods.
We made that happen at the human level, that we
have to be quality human beings and fundamentally we need
to be love. Thank you both for your incredible activism
(41:20):
and your life journey of impact and for living your legacy.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
Thank you so very much, Thank.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You, Thank you. That was beautiful. Really appreciate you all.
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share,
and follow us on at my Legacy movement on social
media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus
content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor
King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection.
(41:54):
A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and
executive producers Sam Heyward Come executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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