December 2, 2025 • 40 mins
CNN’s chief legal analyst and bestselling author Laura Coates built her platform by cutting through noise with truth. But long before she was a trusted voice on national television, she was inside the justice system, wrestling with what it means to uphold the law when the law itself can be unjust.
In this powerful and personal episode, Laura joins hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger to share what it really means to speak truth, take risks, and build a legacy with heart. Her plus one? Her father, Dr. Norman Coates, who taught her by example.
Together, they share how:
- Hope isn’t a feeling—it’s action
- Your calling doesn’t require other people’s approval
- Legacy begins by questioning everything
Don’t miss an episode – subscribe now to catch new episodes every Tuesday and bonus content every Thursday.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And hear about the seat at the table, and if
you don't have one, then bring in a chair. As
Shli Chislong once said, to get the table, I want
the walls to come off.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Laura Coates is CNN's chief Legal Analyst and anchor, a
former federal prosecutor and best selling author of Voice Million
streussed when the country faces its hardest questions.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I had people who are very difficult on They come
ready to fight, and you will not come on my
show and try to hide under a fake fight.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
But before the primetime platform, there was a daughter watching
her father defy the eyes.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
This is a person who aged out of foster care
and went on to start his own clinic in his
hometown because there wasn't one.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Together, they open up about perseverance, purpose and possibilities, and she.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Set up her own private office at an arabread at
a table until eventually someone said, you sound like you
know what you're talking about. Why don't you come on
twa show.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
With a dose of laughter along the way, I the
youngest of three girls, and all of us have contributed
to his hair loss over the year.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Join House. Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters King,
Mark Gilberger and Craig Gilberger for a transformative conversation about
the courage to live your convictions and finding your calling.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
There are moments where I look back and said, do
you think you'd be different?
Speaker 4 (01:17):
And where you complicit in the.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
Welcome to My Legacy. Today's guest is Legal Powerhouse, a
voice that cuts through the noise with clarity and conviction,
the extraordinary Laura Coates. Laura, were truly honored to have
you with us here today. Fun for the Kings because
you've interviewed them many times. Now they get to ask
you the tough question.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
Now the table's a turn. This is so exciting today.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I'm so excited to see them again. So thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
Well, we're so grateful for you to be here at Laura.
And as you know, always on My Legacy, there's always
a plus one, someone who knows them well, someone who's
been with them on their journey, and in this case,
it's someone who knows you extremely well. Would you do
us the honor to introduce your father?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, you know, I met this guy about what forty
five years ago and I was like, you know, I'm
gonna keep him around.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's special.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
This is my father, Doctor Norman Coates, and he is
someone that I not only look up to and respect
as a daughter, but I look to him for guidance
in all areas of life. And if he weren't my father,
I would seek him out for that same guidance because
I respect him that much, and he is such a
(02:30):
beautiful person and soul, and really he is my plus one.
But I know my father will tell you when it
comes to legacy. He is somebody who wants the joys
and the lessons to multiply throughout generations. And I, for
as much as I am his, he is my intergenerational wealth.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
That is beautiful.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
That's one of the best introductions I think we've ever had.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Yeah, well, Norman, we are so appreciative you to be
here today. We of course are grateful for the brilliant
mind that is Laura, And so we have to ask,
would you either share a story from her childhood when
you knew that she would evolve to be this extraordinary
individual that we all look to for wisdom and guidance,
or an incredibly embarrassing moment for childhood. Either one's good,
(03:18):
whichever one you want to start with.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
But over to you, sir, I will have to recall,
and Laura's going to remember this very well. We lived
in Highland Village in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and it was winter,
and you know what winter's like in Minnesota. It was
probably twenty fifteen degrees something like that. And Laura was
sitting out on our front stoop and the neighbor came
(03:41):
by and said, hey, Lara, why are you sitting out
here in the winter, And Lara said, I'm doing my
father a favor. Really, your father told you to come
out here and sit, she said no, But I did
hear him say there's too many dog one women in
his house. So I decided to take myself out of
the equation.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
We should we should probably mention I'm the youngest of
three girls and the daughter of a very strong woman,
and all of us have contributed to his hair loss
over the years.
Speaker 7 (04:15):
And how did you produce three not only amazing ladies,
but three lawyers at that?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Oh that's easy. You know, if you have daughters, you
know that what you say to them is merely a sucgestion,
and and it gives them something to go against. So
what I did was say, please, don't be lawyers. So
of course they all decided to do that. That's the
true story though.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
Yeah, and I'm also uh, three three girls. I'm the oldest,
so yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
See, that's why we were Pindrian spirits and that when
we met. Although you know I have I proudly own.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
The baby label.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I am somebody who goes to my list of the calls.
I talk to someone in my family every single day,
and I expect my cause to be answered by each
of them day for that very reason. But my eldest sister, Tracy,
she she's always thinking. My guy said, we had totally
different parents.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
Yeah, exactly. My youngest and I always talk about I
think we all we were disciplined different. I think by
the youngest the parents parents were tired. You like to
think it's because you're so dazzling, but I think the
parents were just like, Okay, were you tired?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I Dad, No, I just think it. I think you
just learn more. By the time you get to the
third one, you begin to see what's important and what
kinds of things you can just let go by the wayside.
Speaker 6 (05:41):
Well, let's turn to you, Norman, because I know that
you've had such a tremendous life from foster care to
establishing your own dental practice, and it's truly a story
of resilience and perseverance in some ways. I think that
my generation, my and Laura's generation, we were kind of
(06:02):
that first generation right after the civil rights movements and
our parents, so you were, you know this a black
dentist in your town. My father was the first one
of the first black insurance men in the state of Florida.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
And so.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
How was that in the seventies when you, I know,
you've talked about how hard it was as a black
man to be trusted, you know, and in your profession
as a dentist, and you know some of the resistance
that you received. What would you like to share with
our audience about any of those lessons that you learned
along the way.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Oh wow. In terms of my experience in the seventies,
I went to high school in Boston right around the
time they were trying to integrate schools and using bussing,
and I think you may remember those times when they
were pulling black people off of buses and beating them
up and chasing them out of the school and chasing
them around the neighborhoods. And I actually went through some
(07:00):
of that I did not go to a Boston public
high school, but I went to a school that was
in the vicinity of South Boston. So I'll never forget
the time that my particular school WI wiscmpsin Academy was
on an island off the coast of South Boston, and
I got there late for the boat one night, and
a bunch of Southeast what we call them Southeast, a
bunch of South Boston kids came along and said, what
(07:23):
are you doing in our neighborhood. We ought to throw
you into the water. And being thrown in the water
in January would have been you know, it may have
killed me for all I know. But I was lucky
that one of my classmates came along and said, he's
a good one. And for the first time in my life,
I took that as a compliment. Thank you saving my life.
I am one of the good ones. So that's my
(07:45):
legacy from the seventies in terms of what it was
like to grow up. Then when I got out of school,
when I got out of college and out of demo school,
I did discover and I became a dentist. And to
your point about the question about how how did I
feel about people trusting me, or how did I make
(08:06):
people trust me? Well, you can't make people trust you,
but you do have But what you do understand is
that there's not a leeway for me, or for your father,
or for Laura, or for really anyone else who is
in a position of trying to make it. There's not
a leeway. You can't make mistakes. You're not judged the
same way. There are people who could have, I don't know,
(08:27):
have a poor chairside manner, or have feelings fall out
all the time, or hurt a patient, and yet they're
judged in a particular way. But if I made one error,
then I would be judged in a much harsher way.
And so you have to really toll the line.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Let's unpack that, because you know, it seems like a
through line for most people to say, Okay, I went
to college, and after college, I went to dental school,
then I opened up a practice. Well, every I think
person trying to make it, and particularly people have color
recognized the constant disruptions of that line. It is trying
(09:05):
to be in dental school and your classmates already have
you know, positions taking care where someone's going to apprentice
them right, dad, and they're going to grow up under
the wing of somebody who has a practice and a
patient list ready to hand off. There as a trust issue.
I never forget thinking about. You know. I used to
work for my father in his dental office before he
(09:27):
fired me. More than once, I was a talk. I
was constantly being fine, and he was like, could you
just and me the gloves. I'm like, yeah, but here's
the thing about episode of Golden Girls, the cosmme show,
and he's like, just okay, just pleably my office. But
working for him, I remember what would was like when
someone would come to his office and they would have
(09:49):
scheduled an appointment, and then they get to the office
and they realize that doctor Norman Coates is the name
that belongs to a black man. That there would be
a staff that he would go out of his way
to hire that looked like where he came from. He
wasn't somebody who you know, wanted the person he believed
(10:11):
in hiring character and training skill, and because he knew
what it was like for himself to try to figure
it out and figure out the way, and this is somebody,
you know, he can't. He glosses over because he's humble.
But this is a person who aged out of foster
care and went on to start his own clinic in
(10:33):
his hometown of western Massachusetts because there wasn't one. You know,
there's a picture of my father in my office at
CNN where it's you know, him in his white lab
coat with his curtains and with the plaid ones behind
you dead the plaid ones, and he's so handsome with
the black beard and it's beautifully trimm before that was
(10:54):
the thing he was flying.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And I look at every single day when I'm at and.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I say, you know, the picture is what they're seeing,
but the person is who you have to remember. And
that's what I try to bring. I try to bring
a little bit of Norman on CNN. I try to
bring a little bit of the stories of Norman and
all of us, because you know, I don't really I'm
not really as interested in the end result as I
(11:22):
am in the journey, because god, you guys, what it
takes to make it right.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Since this show is really about legacy, what I consider
my legacy isn't isn't really how successful I've been economically,
but really the number of people that have come into
my office and receive treatment when they couldn't afford to
(11:49):
get treatment. And also the people who are now who
now have careers because of what Lara just said, which
is I hired for character and then train them all
the time. And so there are a couple of people
who are now Dennis, and there's some people who are Hyjennis,
(12:10):
and there's a whole there's there's one woman who called
me a few years ago and said that she runs
the dental program at Boston City Hospital, and I just
thought it was I mean, that made me feel that
that's what makes me smile.
Speaker 6 (12:26):
Laura, You've mentioned a few times too, making it like
you know, he's made, you know, making it, And I
keep and I reflect upon the Mary Tyler Moore Show
with that theme song. She's gonna make it after all.
So I have to ask you about this because I
heard that you watched the Mary Tyler Moore Show and
that it actually inspired you to pack up the family
(12:47):
and move from Massachusetts to Minnesota.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
I just find myself fascinating.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
I love that was it the hat at the end
that when she tossed it up?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
That you know?
Speaker 6 (12:58):
But but sincerely do you find that move? Was that
more from fearlessness or faith.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Well, I'll tell you. I I'll start, Daddy can tell
how really I mean? I here's the daughter's perspective. Okay,
I remember it was it was nineteen eighty nine, and
I remember my parents saying that they were ready to
leave Worcester and they said, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Where do you want to go next?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Well, let's turn on a television and whatever show is
on wherever that is based, that's where we'll go. No,
And I remember, I know it sounds crazy, but Mary
Callimore came on. Now, Mary Timemore was off and on
in my house all we loved that song, who can
turn the world on with her smile? To taken nothing
day and suddenly make it all seem worthwhile?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And I remember we moved later that year to Saint Paul, Minnesota.
We my parents had us go in front of the
house where of course there was the facade of where
she was reported to be from, and we had to
and we.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Sang that themes.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Well, it should have been my very first encounter with
law enforcement.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
It was not. But that was when I thought my
parents saw.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Equal parts crazy and wonderful, because for me, it set
the rest of my life on a beautiful trajectory that
otherwise would not have would not have had I don't
think in the same way my family and it would
have been the same. But the place where I'm from,
I always say is Minnesota because that is home to
me and it gives me the feeling of throwing that
(14:37):
tam up in the air and taking a nothing day
and suddenly making it off teamworth while.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
But Norman, for you, as the I call Norman by the.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Way, often times there's not a little girl on my
daddy Norman. But Norman, how how do you when you
look back at that?
Speaker 4 (14:51):
How do you see it? How do you remember it?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, Solar was eight, So that's that is her perspective,
and a lot of what she said is absolutely true. However,
there was there really were some practical reasons that I
moved to Minnesota. The main one was a little Well.
First of all, I told I asked my wife if
she was willing to move there, and she said, absolutely not.
I think that's near Iowa, And so I said, it's
(15:15):
nowhere near Iowa. But I knew the Mary Tyler Moore
show very well, and so I put that on my list. Denver,
Seattle or Minneapolis. I looked up to see which flights
went to Minneapolis, because I, you know how easy it
would be to get out there and check it out.
My airport and Worcester actually flew a direct flight to Minneapolis,
So I got on that direct flight to Minneapolis. I
(15:36):
got there. I loved it, loved everything about it, and
that is the main reason. But the coach's family lore
is that what Lara just just said, and she remembers
that as an eight year old. But it was, you know,
a different you know, a different set of decision. It's
no more practical than what she described, but I'm just
saying it was just a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Are you telling me I was in privy to all
the intimate conversations of your marriage?
Speaker 4 (16:01):
How dare you.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
That may happen when you were sitting out on the stoop.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Coming up the leap of faith that launched Laura's second act.
No title, no safety, NAT, just conviction, compassion and a
table at Panera Bread.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
Now back to my legacy, Laura.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
Another alliance that or connection that you and I have
is that you worked on hate crimes cases, and for
many years I worked for an organization that monitored hate
crimes and hate groups, the neo Nazi skinheads, and actually
helped communities go and organize, and so I know the
(16:48):
heaviness of that work. Is there one particular case that
still lives with you?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
You know it was?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It was one I did not personally prosecute, but involved
interviewing Matthew Shepherd's family because it resonated in so many
ways of what was happening. The story of that young
man who was just brutally attacked in a way that
(17:21):
no one, no one should ever ever have dealt with,
everyone ever should have known, anyone ever should have have
thought about. And that of course also of James Byrd Junior,
who was dragged to his death to the point where
and I hate to be so graphic, but the truth
is necessary till he was decapitated practically and his skin
(17:46):
on his elbows revealed, I mean the bone under his
for his elbows revealed. Those two cases and that compiled
the act that has been so important. Really are the
kinds of stories that that stay with you anytime you
even investigate a matter, whether it's a voting case, whether
(18:09):
it's somebody perceiving something about you and deciding that you
are not worthy of the dignity of human life and
will be treated worse than we would allow for the
scariest and most rabbit of animals, that is the Those
are the stories that stuck with me and really drove me,
(18:29):
in part to feeling like if people could endure what
has happened to them to illustrate the hate that is
in this world, that I can be quote unquote inconvenienced
enough to hear the stories and advocate, I can be
I can cry about the story because I haven't had
(18:52):
the horror of experiencing it, and interviewing their family members
just solidifies that point. And so I know, I looked,
I look to you and the work that you have done,
and it is no small feat to quiet those voices
in the middle of the night, is it. I mean,
it's it's hard because when you have a child, because
then sadly, every story you've heard becomes your greatest fear
(19:17):
when they walk out of the door. And so I
salute you for the work that you have done, because
you know it takes a collective, all of us, to
to continue the work. And in spite of what's you know,
what's uncomfortable for people to hear well.
Speaker 7 (19:38):
Laura, I just want to say thank you on behalf
of all of us for being that advocate. And Norman
to a question for you, as your daughter's going through
these high intense cases, and obviously she can't share all
the details with you, but how did you show up
for her during those moments? How did you support her,
how did you love her? And how did you give
her the advice to make that she could be her
(20:00):
best self during those very intense legal proceedings.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Well, first of all, Laura and I are in touch
every day, and so I don't think there are many
days that have gone by and even this year that
we actually haven't talked. And sometimes it's more than once
a day when you're dealing with I suppose it's the
same with sons, but I only know daughters. So when
you're dealing with daughters, and I had to learn this
(20:27):
maybe the hard way, because someone so much of the time,
when they start to talk to you, you as a man,
you want to just give them the solution, like, Okay,
well that's the problem, here's what you should do, and
then they ignore what you say, and then they keep
on talking and then you say, okay, now I heard
that now now that I know the whole story, he
is exactly what you should do. And then they ignore that,
(20:50):
and then they keep on talking, and after a while
you realize that they don't really want to hear solutions.
What they want to do is keep on talking. They
want to let out whatever it is they're feeling. And
so I think the way I supported her to answer
your question is to listen, is to call to be
there physically when she needed me to be there physically,
and try to restrain myself from trying to say, well,
(21:13):
here's what you should do. But a better listener than
me is really her mother. I feel so sorry for
my wife because she's got three daughters who call her,
all of them call her every day. Sometimes I walk
into the room and my wife, I don't even realize
she's on the phone because I haven't heard her for
the last half hour, because she's just listening. And so
(21:35):
you know, that's that's the most and the best I
can tell you in terms of what we do to
support the daughters and Laura included, I.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Can tell you, yes, he is a listener, and he
does give guidance, and he.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Does offer the solutions. But I will say.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
There is.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
There are a few people in this world, and I
count myself as one of them who can honestly say
that there has not been a single moment of my
existence where I have ever felt alone. Like there is
a not a single moment. I don't mean you don't
have lonely moments, Oh, I wish other people are here,
(22:17):
but to know that you know there is there is
no wall that my back has ever had to had.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
To be against.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I look to him and know not only how to
be a parent and a better mother, but also I
looked to the fact that he has been able to
use the experiences of a young man who did feel
alone to make sure that three daughters never did. Wow. Right,
I mean, that's that's something He really is remarkable in
(22:47):
the fact that he has always been unapologetic about letting
me see who he is, flaws and all. He was
not a father who thought, I want my children to
see me as a hero. He was a father who said,
I want you to see me as a man, as
a person, and as a collection of experiences. And by
(23:09):
just letting us see that, that's in part why he's
able to be quiet, because he's already illustrated what.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
It took to be good. Thank you, Laura. I want
you to add me to the will.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I want you to add me above my sisters because.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
I am really.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You can have everything I accumulated in life. That's fine,
you guys. I think it's about a dollar twenty five.
Speaker 8 (23:39):
You know, Laura, your book Just Pursuit is both a
memoir and a call to action about the failures of
our justice system. What was the hardest truth that you
had to confront while writing it?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh, that I may have been complicit. There were more
moments that you know in life, you always think that
were me. I'm gonna tell you what I would do.
It wouldn't be me, couldn't be me. Here's I wish
somebody would, right. And then you are confronted with the
situation suddenly and now it is you, and the choice
is before you, and the choices you make might surprise you.
(24:18):
And I thought I was somebody who really from revering
the teachings of your own father, as we all have embraced.
And I really thought that I would be called that
that to task something that I thought was was wrong
but lawful, and do and do it anyway right. And
(24:40):
there was an instance in particular I write about in.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
The book where.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I had to help turn it over somebody who had
a warrant for deportation, and in the times were in
now particular as they were then, who you think you'll
be in those moments and how you think he'd respond
might surprise you.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Now. I wasn't with bells on.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
And I wasn't with a smile on my face. I
was fighting, I was trying, I was speaking in Spanish.
I was trying to get to his family. I was
trying to do what I thought was right for him,
balancing what was required of me by the US Attorney,
(25:25):
by my supervisors, by my bar license, by the judge.
And so there are moments where I look back and say, gosh,
did you think you'd be different? And were you complicit
in the wrongs that you see? So those are the
moments that had surprised me in writing and reflecting on that.
(25:46):
And you know, I wrote that book as in part,
a letter to my children, because I really I was
pregnant for most of my time at that office with
my two children, and I wanted my children to know
what I was carrying while I was carrying them. And
part of that needs being confessional and wanting them to
(26:08):
understand what choices look like when you make them, and
how you feel when they're made, and what you do
to correct them.
Speaker 9 (26:21):
Insightful if you're looking for stories that move you, insights
that shift you, in conversations that stay deeply within you.
Do us a favor, and do yourself a favor and
hit the subscribe button right now. Is the best way
to support this podcast and support your journey.
Speaker 7 (26:36):
New episodes drop every week.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Now back to my Legacy, Laura.
Speaker 7 (26:45):
In twenty sixteen, you made the leap from prosecuting cases
to analyzing them on national television. You covered everything from
Supreme Court decisions to high profile criminal cases. Wanted to
ask you, what do you think most Americans misunderstand about
the justice system and how do you play a role
to help bridge that gap.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's not unlike being a trial attorney, frankly, when you
are presenting the information, but it's a jury of really
my peers, a jury of all of American peers, the
international community, and we are giving information and you can
decide what you'd like to do with it. But withholding
the information would be unethical, Manipulating the information would be unethical.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Trying to get a.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Desired result would be as bad as being oppressive.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
So one thing that I that.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I hope to do is to demystify a lot of
what's happening in the spaces where we, as the average person,
have never been invited into. I mean, we hear about
the seat at the table, and if you don't have one,
then bring in a chair, as Shirley Chisholm once said,
But I really see it as you know, taking down
(27:58):
all the walls, forget the table. I want the walls
to come off and anyone in any walk of life
to be able to look upon what's happening with the
same level of access and opportunity to understand, form an opinion,
and act on it with their own power. That's what
I want. The platform is all of ours because the
(28:20):
only reason, only only way to really, like I say,
take away that elitism of information, because I think the
way the world works is they decide who gets to
be in the know, and then they become the generation
after generation after generation holders.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Of the quote unquote truth and the.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Power, and then the rest of the world is supposed
to just accept that this is the way will always be.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
And I just can't do it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And if that, if that requires me to be and
since it does honest about the stories I'm choosing deliberate
about the focus of the subject matter, but also requires
me to not be on a soapbox, which sometimes is
my tent. I want, you know, you want to tell
people what is what it is right, you want you
(29:12):
you want to.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Be able to have the uninterrupted speech. But journalism is
not for that. It really is.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And I have people who are very difficult on who
they come ready to fight because they think, Okay, all
I have to do is out talker and get combative,
and then she'll lose a train of thought. You know,
I invite you to speak because I want people to
actually know exactly what you believe and think. Because people
(29:41):
know that they can now know exact what they believe
and think about you, and they can make decisions with
their feet, with their ballots and beyond. And you will
not come on my show and try to hide under
a fake fight.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Good luck. Let's hear you, Let's hear.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
From you, and then let us decide what we think normal.
Will you have you had your you had your finger
your hand raise.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yes, I'd like to respond to something it hasn't been
asked because if someone were to ask me how I
can sum Laura up, I would I would have to
use words like compassion, empathy, heart, and perseverance. This these
are the qualities that she has always taken in whether
she worked in private practice or whether she worked at
(30:27):
the Justice Department. She could walk. She brought those things
in to her prosecution cases, and she no one would
no one would know that she may have cried before
she walked in there, and she may have cried when
she walked out of there. She is an extremely compassionate
and empathetic person and when she's even when she's doing
(30:49):
her her shows on CNN, the the guests that she chooses,
the topics that she chooses have to do with her
passion for human beings, for fairness and for justice, and
the questions and the way she asked the questions also
have to do with her innate compassion and love and
(31:11):
heart and the perseverance that when she left the Justice Department,
she didn't leave it to go to another job, to
another law firm, or to the other people who were
trying to recruit her. She decided she knew what she
wanted to do. I think Freddie Freddie Gray was in
the news at the time, and Laura went to the
Panera Bread and she set up her own private office
(31:33):
at Panera Bread at a table, and she went there
with her computer. She didn't have a job, she didn't
have a position, she didn't have somebody who was asking
her about her, but she went there with her computer.
She researched everything she could find about Freddie Gray and
what was going on with this case. And then she
(31:54):
would send notes or emails or whatever out to radio
stations and the mayor and Freddie Gray's lawyer and whoever,
until eventually someone said, you sound like you know what
you're talking about. Why don't you come on to our show?
And that's where it catapulted from there. So this is
a woman with perseverance, but also she what drives her
(32:17):
is compassion and empathy.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
Thank you Daddy, and vision because from what I'm hearing
is that she created her own next career move from
being you know, and if I recall correctly, you were
pregnant as well, did you say you were pregnant.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I had your nurse children, Yes, I had two. I
had my children. My daughter hadn't even turned one.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Yet.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And you know, I remember I left the Justice depart
my son that my kid be eighteen months apart, which
is probably the twelve and eleven. Now, wow, it's been.
It's been about ten years almost. And I remember my
last day of Justice Department. People laughed at me because.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
They, you know, as my mom.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Was like, you're gonna lead your with the phrase your
good government job, which is the only phrase you can say,
work right, your good government job. But you know, sometimes
when you have a calling, it's not a conference call, right,
other people aren't on it.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
A calling is not a conference call.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Beautiful phrase.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
They may not get it.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
It's just it's not a conference call.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And so I knew that I that I had to
try for the reasons that were deeply within me. But
also I knew as a mom, one day my children
would come to me with a dream and they would
have maybe no clear vision of every tree through the forest.
But I could talk to then about having tried. And
(33:42):
I knew that was going to be part of it.
Because you know, I'm very dramatic, some would say too dramatic.
I made sure my last day of work was your
father's birthday, so I could say free at last. Okay,
I certainly did, and we and we did that. It
walked down and I thought, Okay, well, I don't now
(34:02):
now what, but I I'm gonna tell you something. There
will never be anything. I don't care what, what degree
I could attain. I don't care what accolade, I don't
care what happens at any point in my life. I
will forever be propelled to know that I can make
(34:25):
a difference just by having taken that first step to
say I don't know what's next, but I'm gonna walk anyway.
And and so really, I'm telling you a story of faith.
I'm telling your story of like what that.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
What that looks like? And they called a leap of faith.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
But you know, we all, we all have to believe
that there is something within us that's worthy of sharing
and worthy of telling, and worthy of of making sure
other people have a have a voice. I still there's
not been a contract or a moment my dad that
I have had, or big moment where I don't require
(35:03):
the signing to take place in Panera bread.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
And what you just said also reminds me of a
quote of my father in law when he talked about
the fact that you don't have to see.
Speaker 5 (35:15):
The entire staircase.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Yes, you just have to take that first step. So
that's exactly that's exactly what you did.
Speaker 8 (35:24):
Now for you, specifically as a lawyer who has work
to advance civil and human rights, how do you retain
hope in such a time that feels extraordinarily dark. One
of the big challenges is for people to always remain hopeful.
(35:45):
Is I think I even characterize it this way. How
do Dad would say, how do you hew out of
a mountain of despair a stone of hope?
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Well, my hope is named Adrian and Sydney Michael. There
is giving up would be giving up on them and
their future, and I can't do that because I love.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Them too much.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I also really feel like optimism is not bubbly. Hope
is not like with a smile and dimples. To me,
hope is if you picture somebody with a hammer and
they are hitting against a stone wall because they got
(36:38):
to escape the circumstances therein I like to think to myself,
you're always one hammer stroke away from the other side.
That's optimism. That's hope. Hope is the effort. Hope is
willing your muscles, physical and mental to take another swing
(36:59):
because the next one might be the breakthrough.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
So that's what I look at.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
And you know that that's not glamorous, that's not pretty,
that's not sitting on a couch. That's not just the
power of the pen, that's not just the power of
the pulpit. That is power and grit and and that's
what hope looks like to me. And that's what hope
and optimism feels like to me. And every now and then,
(37:28):
you know, you feel that you have it. You hit us,
you hit the wall just the right way, and what
happens a little bit of light, A little bit of
light escapes and the whole room is shining and you
look around and you say to yourself, I.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
See where I am. Now what do I want to
do about it? Now?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Sometimes those rocks come back and they fill in the
gaps and the darkness comes back. But I'm look, I'm
one I know I'm one stroke away from the light.
And that's what hope is for me.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Now, this reminds me absolutely of the time that Laura
was hosting Halle Berry at Princeton University and they said, Laura,
why don't you take a picture with halle Berry. Lara said,
there is no way I'm taking a picture next to
this woman. Now, I'm gonna come along with the giants.
I'm gonna give I'm gonna give my answer next to
(38:24):
halle Berry sitting here in the other frame. But I'll
make it shorter and it will be a lot more
succinc and I'm sure it won't be as profound. But
I have hope. I have great, wonderful hope because I
am a student of history and not a prisoner of now,
and I know how far we have come since sixteen
or nine, and I know how far we have the
(38:46):
potential to go. And so what's happening right now is
just a minuscule second compared to that, and I know
we're going to go much further. In history is evidence
of that.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Laura, I'm so grateful you brought your dad on the
show because to allow all of our listeners and viewers
to know aging at a foster care establishing at a
time a great civil challenge, a business that you stood
proudly on, and Laura upon that foundation to be such
an advocate for justice, the idea that laws isn't what's
(39:20):
written on paper but it's sitting in that Panera bed
location that a calling is not a conference call, fighting
for what's right, refusing to accept inequity as inevitable, the
two of you living your values through generations and now
passing it to your children, Laura and the generations to follow,
and even frankly, creating a better America, a better world.
(39:42):
So on behalf of all of us. Such deep gratitude
to the two of you for sharing their stories with us,
for the laughter, for the wisdom, and most importantly, for,
as we say here, living your legacy. Thanks so much
for being with us here today.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
That was so wonderful. You know, Dan, I'm going to
car you without crying.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
So thank you.
Speaker 6 (40:03):
And we see many more Panera bread celebrations in your future.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yes, we stand on your shoulders, never in your shadow,
but beside you.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Yes, thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share,
and follow us on at my Legacy movement on social
media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus
content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor
King's vision of the beloved community and The Power of Connection,
(40:40):
a legacy plus studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and
executive producer Suzanne Hayward, come executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
And hear about the seat at the table, and if
you don't have one, then bring in a chair. As
Shli Chislong once said, to get the table, I want
the walls to come off.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Laura Coates is CNN's chief Legal Analyst and anchor, a
former federal prosecutor and best selling author of Voice Million
streussed when the country faces its hardest questions.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I had people who are very difficult on They come
ready to fight, and you will not come on my
show and try to hide under a fake fight.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
But before the primetime platform, there was a daughter watching
her father defy the eyes.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
This is a person who aged out of foster care
and went on to start his own clinic in his
hometown because there wasn't one.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Together, they open up about perseverance, purpose and possibilities, and she.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Set up her own private office at an arabread at
a table until eventually someone said, you sound like you
know what you're talking about. Why don't you come on
twa show.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
With a dose of laughter along the way, I the
youngest of three girls, and all of us have contributed
to his hair loss over the year.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Join House. Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters King,
Mark Gilberger and Craig Gilberger for a transformative conversation about
the courage to live your convictions and finding your calling.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
There are moments where I look back and said, do
you think you'd be different?
Speaker 4 (01:17):
And where you complicit in the.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
Welcome to My Legacy. Today's guest is Legal Powerhouse, a
voice that cuts through the noise with clarity and conviction,
the extraordinary Laura Coates. Laura, were truly honored to have
you with us here today. Fun for the Kings because
you've interviewed them many times. Now they get to ask
you the tough question.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
Now the table's a turn. This is so exciting today.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I'm so excited to see them again. So thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
Well, we're so grateful for you to be here at Laura.
And as you know, always on My Legacy, there's always
a plus one, someone who knows them well, someone who's
been with them on their journey, and in this case,
it's someone who knows you extremely well. Would you do
us the honor to introduce your father?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, you know, I met this guy about what forty
five years ago and I was like, you know, I'm
gonna keep him around.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's special.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
This is my father, Doctor Norman Coates, and he is
someone that I not only look up to and respect
as a daughter, but I look to him for guidance
in all areas of life. And if he weren't my father,
I would seek him out for that same guidance because
I respect him that much, and he is such a
(02:30):
beautiful person and soul, and really he is my plus one.
But I know my father will tell you when it
comes to legacy. He is somebody who wants the joys
and the lessons to multiply throughout generations. And I, for
as much as I am his, he is my intergenerational wealth.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
That is beautiful.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
That's one of the best introductions I think we've ever had.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Yeah, well, Norman, we are so appreciative you to be
here today. We of course are grateful for the brilliant
mind that is Laura, And so we have to ask,
would you either share a story from her childhood when
you knew that she would evolve to be this extraordinary
individual that we all look to for wisdom and guidance,
or an incredibly embarrassing moment for childhood. Either one's good,
(03:18):
whichever one you want to start with.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
But over to you, sir, I will have to recall,
and Laura's going to remember this very well. We lived
in Highland Village in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and it was winter,
and you know what winter's like in Minnesota. It was
probably twenty fifteen degrees something like that. And Laura was
sitting out on our front stoop and the neighbor came
(03:41):
by and said, hey, Lara, why are you sitting out
here in the winter, And Lara said, I'm doing my
father a favor. Really, your father told you to come
out here and sit, she said no, But I did
hear him say there's too many dog one women in
his house. So I decided to take myself out of
the equation.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
We should we should probably mention I'm the youngest of
three girls and the daughter of a very strong woman,
and all of us have contributed to his hair loss
over the years.
Speaker 7 (04:15):
And how did you produce three not only amazing ladies,
but three lawyers at that?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Oh that's easy. You know, if you have daughters, you
know that what you say to them is merely a sucgestion,
and and it gives them something to go against. So
what I did was say, please, don't be lawyers. So
of course they all decided to do that. That's the
true story though.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
Yeah, and I'm also uh, three three girls. I'm the oldest,
so yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
See, that's why we were Pindrian spirits and that when
we met. Although you know I have I proudly own.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
The baby label.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I am somebody who goes to my list of the calls.
I talk to someone in my family every single day,
and I expect my cause to be answered by each
of them day for that very reason. But my eldest sister, Tracy,
she she's always thinking. My guy said, we had totally
different parents.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
Yeah, exactly. My youngest and I always talk about I
think we all we were disciplined different. I think by
the youngest the parents parents were tired. You like to
think it's because you're so dazzling, but I think the
parents were just like, Okay, were you tired?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I Dad, No, I just think it. I think you
just learn more. By the time you get to the
third one, you begin to see what's important and what
kinds of things you can just let go by the wayside.
Speaker 6 (05:41):
Well, let's turn to you, Norman, because I know that
you've had such a tremendous life from foster care to
establishing your own dental practice, and it's truly a story
of resilience and perseverance in some ways. I think that
my generation, my and Laura's generation, we were kind of
(06:02):
that first generation right after the civil rights movements and
our parents, so you were, you know this a black
dentist in your town. My father was the first one
of the first black insurance men in the state of Florida.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
And so.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
How was that in the seventies when you, I know,
you've talked about how hard it was as a black
man to be trusted, you know, and in your profession
as a dentist, and you know some of the resistance
that you received. What would you like to share with
our audience about any of those lessons that you learned
along the way.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Oh wow. In terms of my experience in the seventies,
I went to high school in Boston right around the
time they were trying to integrate schools and using bussing,
and I think you may remember those times when they
were pulling black people off of buses and beating them
up and chasing them out of the school and chasing
them around the neighborhoods. And I actually went through some
(07:00):
of that I did not go to a Boston public
high school, but I went to a school that was
in the vicinity of South Boston. So I'll never forget
the time that my particular school WI wiscmpsin Academy was
on an island off the coast of South Boston, and
I got there late for the boat one night, and
a bunch of Southeast what we call them Southeast, a
bunch of South Boston kids came along and said, what
(07:23):
are you doing in our neighborhood. We ought to throw
you into the water. And being thrown in the water
in January would have been you know, it may have
killed me for all I know. But I was lucky
that one of my classmates came along and said, he's
a good one. And for the first time in my life,
I took that as a compliment. Thank you saving my life.
I am one of the good ones. So that's my
(07:45):
legacy from the seventies in terms of what it was
like to grow up. Then when I got out of school,
when I got out of college and out of demo school,
I did discover and I became a dentist. And to
your point about the question about how how did I
feel about people trusting me, or how did I make
(08:06):
people trust me? Well, you can't make people trust you,
but you do have But what you do understand is
that there's not a leeway for me, or for your father,
or for Laura, or for really anyone else who is
in a position of trying to make it. There's not
a leeway. You can't make mistakes. You're not judged the
same way. There are people who could have, I don't know,
(08:27):
have a poor chairside manner, or have feelings fall out
all the time, or hurt a patient, and yet they're
judged in a particular way. But if I made one error,
then I would be judged in a much harsher way.
And so you have to really toll the line.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Let's unpack that, because you know, it seems like a
through line for most people to say, Okay, I went
to college, and after college, I went to dental school,
then I opened up a practice. Well, every I think
person trying to make it, and particularly people have color
recognized the constant disruptions of that line. It is trying
(09:05):
to be in dental school and your classmates already have
you know, positions taking care where someone's going to apprentice
them right, dad, and they're going to grow up under
the wing of somebody who has a practice and a
patient list ready to hand off. There as a trust issue.
I never forget thinking about. You know. I used to
work for my father in his dental office before he
(09:27):
fired me. More than once, I was a talk. I
was constantly being fine, and he was like, could you
just and me the gloves. I'm like, yeah, but here's
the thing about episode of Golden Girls, the cosmme show,
and he's like, just okay, just pleably my office. But
working for him, I remember what would was like when
someone would come to his office and they would have
(09:49):
scheduled an appointment, and then they get to the office
and they realize that doctor Norman Coates is the name
that belongs to a black man. That there would be
a staff that he would go out of his way
to hire that looked like where he came from. He
wasn't somebody who you know, wanted the person he believed
(10:11):
in hiring character and training skill, and because he knew
what it was like for himself to try to figure
it out and figure out the way, and this is somebody,
you know, he can't. He glosses over because he's humble.
But this is a person who aged out of foster
care and went on to start his own clinic in
(10:33):
his hometown of western Massachusetts because there wasn't one. You know,
there's a picture of my father in my office at
CNN where it's you know, him in his white lab
coat with his curtains and with the plaid ones behind
you dead the plaid ones, and he's so handsome with
the black beard and it's beautifully trimm before that was
(10:54):
the thing he was flying.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And I look at every single day when I'm at and.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I say, you know, the picture is what they're seeing,
but the person is who you have to remember. And
that's what I try to bring. I try to bring
a little bit of Norman on CNN. I try to
bring a little bit of the stories of Norman and
all of us, because you know, I don't really I'm
not really as interested in the end result as I
(11:22):
am in the journey, because god, you guys, what it
takes to make it right.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Since this show is really about legacy, what I consider
my legacy isn't isn't really how successful I've been economically,
but really the number of people that have come into
my office and receive treatment when they couldn't afford to
(11:49):
get treatment. And also the people who are now who
now have careers because of what Lara just said, which
is I hired for character and then train them all
the time. And so there are a couple of people
who are now Dennis, and there's some people who are Hyjennis,
(12:10):
and there's a whole there's there's one woman who called
me a few years ago and said that she runs
the dental program at Boston City Hospital, and I just
thought it was I mean, that made me feel that
that's what makes me smile.
Speaker 6 (12:26):
Laura, You've mentioned a few times too, making it like
you know, he's made, you know, making it, And I
keep and I reflect upon the Mary Tyler Moore Show
with that theme song. She's gonna make it after all.
So I have to ask you about this because I
heard that you watched the Mary Tyler Moore Show and
that it actually inspired you to pack up the family
(12:47):
and move from Massachusetts to Minnesota.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
I just find myself fascinating.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
I love that was it the hat at the end
that when she tossed it up?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
That you know?
Speaker 6 (12:58):
But but sincerely do you find that move? Was that
more from fearlessness or faith.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Well, I'll tell you. I I'll start, Daddy can tell
how really I mean? I here's the daughter's perspective. Okay,
I remember it was it was nineteen eighty nine, and
I remember my parents saying that they were ready to
leave Worcester and they said, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Where do you want to go next?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Well, let's turn on a television and whatever show is
on wherever that is based, that's where we'll go. No,
And I remember, I know it sounds crazy, but Mary
Callimore came on. Now, Mary Timemore was off and on
in my house all we loved that song, who can
turn the world on with her smile? To taken nothing
day and suddenly make it all seem worthwhile?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And I remember we moved later that year to Saint Paul, Minnesota.
We my parents had us go in front of the
house where of course there was the facade of where
she was reported to be from, and we had to
and we.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Sang that themes.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Well, it should have been my very first encounter with
law enforcement.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
It was not. But that was when I thought my
parents saw.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Equal parts crazy and wonderful, because for me, it set
the rest of my life on a beautiful trajectory that
otherwise would not have would not have had I don't
think in the same way my family and it would
have been the same. But the place where I'm from,
I always say is Minnesota because that is home to
me and it gives me the feeling of throwing that
(14:37):
tam up in the air and taking a nothing day
and suddenly making it off teamworth while.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
But Norman, for you, as the I call Norman by the.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Way, often times there's not a little girl on my
daddy Norman. But Norman, how how do you when you
look back at that?
Speaker 4 (14:51):
How do you see it? How do you remember it?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, Solar was eight, So that's that is her perspective,
and a lot of what she said is absolutely true. However,
there was there really were some practical reasons that I
moved to Minnesota. The main one was a little Well.
First of all, I told I asked my wife if
she was willing to move there, and she said, absolutely not.
I think that's near Iowa, And so I said, it's
(15:15):
nowhere near Iowa. But I knew the Mary Tyler Moore
show very well, and so I put that on my list. Denver,
Seattle or Minneapolis. I looked up to see which flights
went to Minneapolis, because I, you know how easy it
would be to get out there and check it out.
My airport and Worcester actually flew a direct flight to Minneapolis,
So I got on that direct flight to Minneapolis. I
(15:36):
got there. I loved it, loved everything about it, and
that is the main reason. But the coach's family lore
is that what Lara just just said, and she remembers
that as an eight year old. But it was, you know,
a different you know, a different set of decision. It's
no more practical than what she described, but I'm just
saying it was just a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Are you telling me I was in privy to all
the intimate conversations of your marriage?
Speaker 4 (16:01):
How dare you.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
That may happen when you were sitting out on the stoop.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Coming up the leap of faith that launched Laura's second act.
No title, no safety, NAT, just conviction, compassion and a
table at Panera Bread.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
Now back to my legacy, Laura.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
Another alliance that or connection that you and I have
is that you worked on hate crimes cases, and for
many years I worked for an organization that monitored hate
crimes and hate groups, the neo Nazi skinheads, and actually
helped communities go and organize, and so I know the
(16:48):
heaviness of that work. Is there one particular case that
still lives with you?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
You know it was?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It was one I did not personally prosecute, but involved
interviewing Matthew Shepherd's family because it resonated in so many
ways of what was happening. The story of that young
man who was just brutally attacked in a way that
(17:21):
no one, no one should ever ever have dealt with,
everyone ever should have known, anyone ever should have have
thought about. And that of course also of James Byrd Junior,
who was dragged to his death to the point where
and I hate to be so graphic, but the truth
is necessary till he was decapitated practically and his skin
(17:46):
on his elbows revealed, I mean the bone under his
for his elbows revealed. Those two cases and that compiled
the act that has been so important. Really are the
kinds of stories that that stay with you anytime you
even investigate a matter, whether it's a voting case, whether
(18:09):
it's somebody perceiving something about you and deciding that you
are not worthy of the dignity of human life and
will be treated worse than we would allow for the
scariest and most rabbit of animals, that is the Those
are the stories that stuck with me and really drove me,
(18:29):
in part to feeling like if people could endure what
has happened to them to illustrate the hate that is
in this world, that I can be quote unquote inconvenienced
enough to hear the stories and advocate, I can be
I can cry about the story because I haven't had
(18:52):
the horror of experiencing it, and interviewing their family members
just solidifies that point. And so I know, I looked,
I look to you and the work that you have done,
and it is no small feat to quiet those voices
in the middle of the night, is it. I mean,
it's it's hard because when you have a child, because
then sadly, every story you've heard becomes your greatest fear
(19:17):
when they walk out of the door. And so I
salute you for the work that you have done, because
you know it takes a collective, all of us, to
to continue the work. And in spite of what's you know,
what's uncomfortable for people to hear well.
Speaker 7 (19:38):
Laura, I just want to say thank you on behalf
of all of us for being that advocate. And Norman
to a question for you, as your daughter's going through
these high intense cases, and obviously she can't share all
the details with you, but how did you show up
for her during those moments? How did you support her,
how did you love her? And how did you give
her the advice to make that she could be her
(20:00):
best self during those very intense legal proceedings.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Well, first of all, Laura and I are in touch
every day, and so I don't think there are many
days that have gone by and even this year that
we actually haven't talked. And sometimes it's more than once
a day when you're dealing with I suppose it's the
same with sons, but I only know daughters. So when
you're dealing with daughters, and I had to learn this
(20:27):
maybe the hard way, because someone so much of the time,
when they start to talk to you, you as a man,
you want to just give them the solution, like, Okay,
well that's the problem, here's what you should do, and
then they ignore what you say, and then they keep
on talking and then you say, okay, now I heard
that now now that I know the whole story, he
is exactly what you should do. And then they ignore that,
(20:50):
and then they keep on talking, and after a while
you realize that they don't really want to hear solutions.
What they want to do is keep on talking. They
want to let out whatever it is they're feeling. And
so I think the way I supported her to answer
your question is to listen, is to call to be
there physically when she needed me to be there physically,
and try to restrain myself from trying to say, well,
(21:13):
here's what you should do. But a better listener than
me is really her mother. I feel so sorry for
my wife because she's got three daughters who call her,
all of them call her every day. Sometimes I walk
into the room and my wife, I don't even realize
she's on the phone because I haven't heard her for
the last half hour, because she's just listening. And so
(21:35):
you know, that's that's the most and the best I
can tell you in terms of what we do to
support the daughters and Laura included, I.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Can tell you, yes, he is a listener, and he
does give guidance, and he.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Does offer the solutions. But I will say.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
There is.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
There are a few people in this world, and I
count myself as one of them who can honestly say
that there has not been a single moment of my
existence where I have ever felt alone. Like there is
a not a single moment. I don't mean you don't
have lonely moments, Oh, I wish other people are here,
(22:17):
but to know that you know there is there is
no wall that my back has ever had to had.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
To be against.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I look to him and know not only how to
be a parent and a better mother, but also I
looked to the fact that he has been able to
use the experiences of a young man who did feel
alone to make sure that three daughters never did. Wow. Right,
I mean, that's that's something He really is remarkable in
(22:47):
the fact that he has always been unapologetic about letting
me see who he is, flaws and all. He was
not a father who thought, I want my children to
see me as a hero. He was a father who said,
I want you to see me as a man, as
a person, and as a collection of experiences. And by
(23:09):
just letting us see that, that's in part why he's
able to be quiet, because he's already illustrated what.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
It took to be good. Thank you, Laura. I want
you to add me to the will.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I want you to add me above my sisters because.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
I am really.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You can have everything I accumulated in life. That's fine,
you guys. I think it's about a dollar twenty five.
Speaker 8 (23:39):
You know, Laura, your book Just Pursuit is both a
memoir and a call to action about the failures of
our justice system. What was the hardest truth that you
had to confront while writing it?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh, that I may have been complicit. There were more
moments that you know in life, you always think that
were me. I'm gonna tell you what I would do.
It wouldn't be me, couldn't be me. Here's I wish
somebody would, right. And then you are confronted with the
situation suddenly and now it is you, and the choice
is before you, and the choices you make might surprise you.
(24:18):
And I thought I was somebody who really from revering
the teachings of your own father, as we all have embraced.
And I really thought that I would be called that
that to task something that I thought was was wrong
but lawful, and do and do it anyway right. And
(24:40):
there was an instance in particular I write about in.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
The book where.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I had to help turn it over somebody who had
a warrant for deportation, and in the times were in
now particular as they were then, who you think you'll
be in those moments and how you think he'd respond
might surprise you.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Now. I wasn't with bells on.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
And I wasn't with a smile on my face. I
was fighting, I was trying, I was speaking in Spanish.
I was trying to get to his family. I was
trying to do what I thought was right for him,
balancing what was required of me by the US Attorney,
(25:25):
by my supervisors, by my bar license, by the judge.
And so there are moments where I look back and say, gosh,
did you think you'd be different? And were you complicit
in the wrongs that you see? So those are the
moments that had surprised me in writing and reflecting on that.
(25:46):
And you know, I wrote that book as in part,
a letter to my children, because I really I was
pregnant for most of my time at that office with
my two children, and I wanted my children to know
what I was carrying while I was carrying them. And
part of that needs being confessional and wanting them to
(26:08):
understand what choices look like when you make them, and
how you feel when they're made, and what you do
to correct them.
Speaker 9 (26:21):
Insightful if you're looking for stories that move you, insights
that shift you, in conversations that stay deeply within you.
Do us a favor, and do yourself a favor and
hit the subscribe button right now. Is the best way
to support this podcast and support your journey.
Speaker 7 (26:36):
New episodes drop every week.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Now back to my Legacy, Laura.
Speaker 7 (26:45):
In twenty sixteen, you made the leap from prosecuting cases
to analyzing them on national television. You covered everything from
Supreme Court decisions to high profile criminal cases. Wanted to
ask you, what do you think most Americans misunderstand about
the justice system and how do you play a role
to help bridge that gap.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's not unlike being a trial attorney, frankly, when you
are presenting the information, but it's a jury of really
my peers, a jury of all of American peers, the
international community, and we are giving information and you can
decide what you'd like to do with it. But withholding
the information would be unethical, Manipulating the information would be unethical.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Trying to get a.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Desired result would be as bad as being oppressive.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
So one thing that I that.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I hope to do is to demystify a lot of
what's happening in the spaces where we, as the average person,
have never been invited into. I mean, we hear about
the seat at the table, and if you don't have one,
then bring in a chair, as Shirley Chisholm once said,
But I really see it as you know, taking down
(27:58):
all the walls, forget the table. I want the walls
to come off and anyone in any walk of life
to be able to look upon what's happening with the
same level of access and opportunity to understand, form an opinion,
and act on it with their own power. That's what
I want. The platform is all of ours because the
(28:20):
only reason, only only way to really, like I say,
take away that elitism of information, because I think the
way the world works is they decide who gets to
be in the know, and then they become the generation
after generation after generation holders.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Of the quote unquote truth and the.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Power, and then the rest of the world is supposed
to just accept that this is the way will always be.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
And I just can't do it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And if that, if that requires me to be and
since it does honest about the stories I'm choosing deliberate
about the focus of the subject matter, but also requires
me to not be on a soapbox, which sometimes is
my tent. I want, you know, you want to tell
people what is what it is right, you want you
(29:12):
you want to.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Be able to have the uninterrupted speech. But journalism is
not for that. It really is.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And I have people who are very difficult on who
they come ready to fight because they think, Okay, all
I have to do is out talker and get combative,
and then she'll lose a train of thought. You know,
I invite you to speak because I want people to
actually know exactly what you believe and think. Because people
(29:41):
know that they can now know exact what they believe
and think about you, and they can make decisions with
their feet, with their ballots and beyond. And you will
not come on my show and try to hide under
a fake fight.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Good luck. Let's hear you, Let's hear.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
From you, and then let us decide what we think normal.
Will you have you had your you had your finger
your hand raise.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yes, I'd like to respond to something it hasn't been
asked because if someone were to ask me how I
can sum Laura up, I would I would have to
use words like compassion, empathy, heart, and perseverance. This these
are the qualities that she has always taken in whether
she worked in private practice or whether she worked at
(30:27):
the Justice Department. She could walk. She brought those things
in to her prosecution cases, and she no one would
no one would know that she may have cried before
she walked in there, and she may have cried when
she walked out of there. She is an extremely compassionate
and empathetic person and when she's even when she's doing
(30:49):
her her shows on CNN, the the guests that she chooses,
the topics that she chooses have to do with her
passion for human beings, for fairness and for justice, and
the questions and the way she asked the questions also
have to do with her innate compassion and love and
(31:11):
heart and the perseverance that when she left the Justice Department,
she didn't leave it to go to another job, to
another law firm, or to the other people who were
trying to recruit her. She decided she knew what she
wanted to do. I think Freddie Freddie Gray was in
the news at the time, and Laura went to the
Panera Bread and she set up her own private office
(31:33):
at Panera Bread at a table, and she went there
with her computer. She didn't have a job, she didn't
have a position, she didn't have somebody who was asking
her about her, but she went there with her computer.
She researched everything she could find about Freddie Gray and
what was going on with this case. And then she
(31:54):
would send notes or emails or whatever out to radio
stations and the mayor and Freddie Gray's lawyer and whoever,
until eventually someone said, you sound like you know what
you're talking about. Why don't you come on to our show?
And that's where it catapulted from there. So this is
a woman with perseverance, but also she what drives her
(32:17):
is compassion and empathy.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
Thank you Daddy, and vision because from what I'm hearing
is that she created her own next career move from
being you know, and if I recall correctly, you were
pregnant as well, did you say you were pregnant.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I had your nurse children, Yes, I had two. I
had my children. My daughter hadn't even turned one.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Yet.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And you know, I remember I left the Justice depart
my son that my kid be eighteen months apart, which
is probably the twelve and eleven. Now, wow, it's been.
It's been about ten years almost. And I remember my
last day of Justice Department. People laughed at me because.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
They, you know, as my mom.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Was like, you're gonna lead your with the phrase your
good government job, which is the only phrase you can say,
work right, your good government job. But you know, sometimes
when you have a calling, it's not a conference call, right,
other people aren't on it.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
A calling is not a conference call.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Beautiful phrase.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
They may not get it.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
It's just it's not a conference call.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And so I knew that I that I had to
try for the reasons that were deeply within me. But
also I knew as a mom, one day my children
would come to me with a dream and they would
have maybe no clear vision of every tree through the forest.
But I could talk to then about having tried. And
(33:42):
I knew that was going to be part of it.
Because you know, I'm very dramatic, some would say too dramatic.
I made sure my last day of work was your
father's birthday, so I could say free at last. Okay,
I certainly did, and we and we did that. It
walked down and I thought, Okay, well, I don't now
(34:02):
now what, but I I'm gonna tell you something. There
will never be anything. I don't care what, what degree
I could attain. I don't care what accolade, I don't
care what happens at any point in my life. I
will forever be propelled to know that I can make
(34:25):
a difference just by having taken that first step to
say I don't know what's next, but I'm gonna walk anyway.
And and so really, I'm telling you a story of faith.
I'm telling your story of like what that.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
What that looks like? And they called a leap of faith.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
But you know, we all, we all have to believe
that there is something within us that's worthy of sharing
and worthy of telling, and worthy of of making sure
other people have a have a voice. I still there's
not been a contract or a moment my dad that
I have had, or big moment where I don't require
(35:03):
the signing to take place in Panera bread.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
And what you just said also reminds me of a
quote of my father in law when he talked about
the fact that you don't have to see.
Speaker 5 (35:15):
The entire staircase.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Yes, you just have to take that first step. So
that's exactly that's exactly what you did.
Speaker 8 (35:24):
Now for you, specifically as a lawyer who has work
to advance civil and human rights, how do you retain
hope in such a time that feels extraordinarily dark. One
of the big challenges is for people to always remain hopeful.
(35:45):
Is I think I even characterize it this way. How
do Dad would say, how do you hew out of
a mountain of despair a stone of hope?
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Well, my hope is named Adrian and Sydney Michael. There
is giving up would be giving up on them and
their future, and I can't do that because I love.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Them too much.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I also really feel like optimism is not bubbly. Hope
is not like with a smile and dimples. To me,
hope is if you picture somebody with a hammer and
they are hitting against a stone wall because they got
(36:38):
to escape the circumstances therein I like to think to myself,
you're always one hammer stroke away from the other side.
That's optimism. That's hope. Hope is the effort. Hope is
willing your muscles, physical and mental to take another swing
(36:59):
because the next one might be the breakthrough.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
So that's what I look at.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
And you know that that's not glamorous, that's not pretty,
that's not sitting on a couch. That's not just the
power of the pen, that's not just the power of
the pulpit. That is power and grit and and that's
what hope looks like to me. And that's what hope
and optimism feels like to me. And every now and then,
(37:28):
you know, you feel that you have it. You hit us,
you hit the wall just the right way, and what
happens a little bit of light, A little bit of
light escapes and the whole room is shining and you
look around and you say to yourself, I.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
See where I am. Now what do I want to
do about it? Now?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Sometimes those rocks come back and they fill in the
gaps and the darkness comes back. But I'm look, I'm
one I know I'm one stroke away from the light.
And that's what hope is for me.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Now, this reminds me absolutely of the time that Laura
was hosting Halle Berry at Princeton University and they said, Laura,
why don't you take a picture with halle Berry. Lara said,
there is no way I'm taking a picture next to
this woman. Now, I'm gonna come along with the giants.
I'm gonna give I'm gonna give my answer next to
(38:24):
halle Berry sitting here in the other frame. But I'll
make it shorter and it will be a lot more
succinc and I'm sure it won't be as profound. But
I have hope. I have great, wonderful hope because I
am a student of history and not a prisoner of now,
and I know how far we have come since sixteen
or nine, and I know how far we have the
(38:46):
potential to go. And so what's happening right now is
just a minuscule second compared to that, and I know
we're going to go much further. In history is evidence
of that.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Laura, I'm so grateful you brought your dad on the
show because to allow all of our listeners and viewers
to know aging at a foster care establishing at a
time a great civil challenge, a business that you stood
proudly on, and Laura upon that foundation to be such
an advocate for justice, the idea that laws isn't what's
(39:20):
written on paper but it's sitting in that Panera bed
location that a calling is not a conference call, fighting
for what's right, refusing to accept inequity as inevitable, the
two of you living your values through generations and now
passing it to your children, Laura and the generations to follow,
and even frankly, creating a better America, a better world.
(39:42):
So on behalf of all of us. Such deep gratitude
to the two of you for sharing their stories with us,
for the laughter, for the wisdom, and most importantly, for,
as we say here, living your legacy. Thanks so much
for being with us here today.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
That was so wonderful. You know, Dan, I'm going to
car you without crying.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
So thank you.
Speaker 6 (40:03):
And we see many more Panera bread celebrations in your future.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yes, we stand on your shoulders, never in your shadow,
but beside you.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Yes, thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share,
and follow us on at my Legacy movement on social
media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus
content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor
King's vision of the beloved community and The Power of Connection,
(40:40):
a legacy plus studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and
executive producer Suzanne Hayward, come executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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