September 30, 2025 • 50 mins
Entrepreneur and bestselling author Marie Forleo joins My Legacy with her ride-or-die best friend Kris Carr for a raw conversation on resilience, friendship, and finding light in the darkest moments.
Join hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger as Marie and Kris turn hard-won wisdom into practical tools you can use right now.
Together, they reveal how:
- A simple mantra can help you face any challenge
- To move from fear or anger when life blindsides you
- A “friendship code” can transform how you show up in a crisis
- To face grief instead of outrunning it
- Long-term love grows when you celebrate differences, not erase them
Don’t miss an episode – subscribe now to catch new episodes every Tuesday and bonus drops every Thursday.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
One of the things that I always wrestle with is
really like this ultra competitive comparison kind of thing in
my head that I'm not doing enough.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Marie Folio is a powerhouse entrepreneur, the creator of Marie TV,
a best selling author, and a world class coach. But
in this conversation, Marie isn't in mentoring mode. She's opening
up in a big way. Alongside her best friend Chris Carr.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
She is my first, my last, my only phone called
when everything is going right, or most frequently when everything
is going.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Wrong, and they don't hold back from the heartbreak to
the healing.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
She opened the door for me to be able to
ask for the kind of support I needed in a
really traumatic moment.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
The shit was hitting the fan in my life, and
I had more perspective when it really hit the fan
in her life.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And after digging deep, they bring the laughter and real talk.
Only your ride or Die dare.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
To share the only person in the world who can
say painful truth and to not have Nylana like slapper.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Is the only time you can change somebody is when
they're in diapers.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Now that a freach.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Join host Martin Luther King the Third Andrea Waters king
Mark Kilberger and Craig Kilberger for an honest, unapologetic conversation
about relationships, finding light in the darkest moments, and the
biggest lessons learned along the way.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I stood there and I was like WHOA.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Before today's episode begins, please be advised this conversation includes
discussions about suicide and mental health. Some of the content
may be distressing. If you or someone you know is struggling,
help is available. Call the National Suicide in Crisis Lifeline
at nine to eighty eight or text home to seven
four one seven four one to reach the crisis text line.
(02:03):
These services are free and available twenty four to seven.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Welcome to My Legacy. Today's guest is Marie Fourlio. Marie
built her business and platform on purpose, resilience, an unshakable belief,
and she's made a career of helping others unlock the same. Marie,
We're so honored to have you with us here today
and on My Legacy. We always ask our guests to
bring a plus one, someone who they admire, they turn
(02:29):
to in times of challenge and grief and hope, someone
who's their ride or die. Marie, can you introduce who
your plus one?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Is today, I brought the one and only magical Unicorn, herself,
Miss Chris Carr. And for those of you who do
not know my best friend in the entire world, she
is a powerhouse herself. She is a multiple New York
Times Number one best selling author. She is someone who
has spent over two decades of her life not just
(02:57):
surviving but thriving with cant and has inspired millions to
do the same. She's got books, she's got podcasts, through
her coaching, through everything she shares with the world. The
New York Times has called her a new role model,
and Oprah has named her a force for good and
for good reason. And personally, Chris is literally she's my
(03:18):
soul sister. Like we talk about this all the time.
We do not understand how we are not legitimate family,
but we are meant family, and she is the person.
We were talking about this the other day, like we
have never let each other down, and we started celebrating
our friend anniversary. I think it's been over fifteen years.
(03:38):
And she is my first, my last, my only phone
call when everything is going right or most frequently when
everything is going wrong, because that happens to all of
us in life.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Had a spectacular introduction.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Chris, When did you know that Marie was going to
be your soul sister, your friends, your lifelong writer, die.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Companion from the first moment I spoke to her. So
we at each other because back in the day when
you're doing everything and you're building your life and you're
building your business, and you're wearing all the hats as
young puppy entrepreneurs, we were also our customer service. And
so I bought one of her products because so many
(04:18):
people had said to me, you should, you should know
about Marie. You should. You guys would really love each other,
and so I was like, Oh, who is this Marie?
And so I went and I bought her live in
the moment booty camp. And I was like, I don't
know what any of that is, but it sounds like
I need to know what it is and have a
little bit of that in my life. And we got
(04:38):
on the phone and we have not stopped talking ever since.
Speaker 6 (04:42):
That is so so special. Let me Marie ask a question.
You grew up in a small town in New Jersey
and have said your mom was a big factor in
shaping your grit. What do you carry forward from those
early years.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Well so much. But I think the quick story that
I will tell that has really shaped my life was
the fact that my mom, like so many of our parents,
didn't grow up with a lot of resources. She actually
had two alcoholic parents and grew up in the Nork,
New Jersey, and she learned, really by necessity, how to
stretch a dollar bill around a block like five or
(05:20):
six times. And she had made a promise to herself
when she was young that she would somehow find a
way to a better life. And so one of my
best memories as a kid was sitting around her kitchen
table in New Jersey, and it was Sundays and cutting
out coupons because my mom loved to teach me all
the ways that our family could save money. And so
I think most of the people here were all of
(05:41):
a certain age where you might remember something that were
called proofs of purchase, where if you purchased a bunch
of boxes of cereal for particular brand or right milk cartons,
and you collected all those little squares and you mailed
them in, you could get cool stuff like cooking utensils
or a recipe book or something. And my mom's favorite
thing that she loved more than anything was this tiny
(06:03):
little AMFM radio that she got for free from Tropicana
Orange Juice. So it looked like an orange I had
red white straw sticking out of the top that was
the antenna. And as a kid, I knew I could
always find my mom somewhere from listening to the tiny
little sound of this radio. So one day coming home
from school, walking home, and I hear like Diana Ross blasting,
(06:26):
you know, really small out of this radio. And as
I approach the house, it's coming from a weird orientation,
and I look up and I see my tiny little
mom perched precariously on the roof of our two story house,
no ladder, no nothing. I'm terrified. I'm like, Mom, what
are you doing up there? Are you okay? And she
yells down and she's like, ree, don't worry about it.
(06:49):
The roofer. You know, there's a leak. The roofer said
it was going to be at least five hundred bucks
to fix it. I said, screw that, I'm doing it myself.
So that gives you a little flavor of MoMA Poorlia
sounds a me So for context, this was the nineteen eighties, right,
This is all pre Internet, this is pre Google, this
is pre YouTube. And my mom only had a high
school education. So one day it was in the fall,
(07:12):
I'm coming home from school and it was dark. Out's Jersey, right,
It's like four o'clock and it's spooky already. And as
I'm approaching the house, everything is dark and it's quiet.
Now I'm Italian American and if your house is dark
and quiet, this is not good news. So I'm terrified.
I'm like, what's going on? Where's my mom? Got that
(07:33):
pit in my stomach, like something is seriously wrong. So
I walk in the house silence, and then I start
hearing these little clicks and clacks from the kitchen. I
tiptoe over and I see my mom in the kitchen.
She's hunched over the table and it looks like an
operating room. There's a spotlight on screwdrivers, electrical tape, and
(07:54):
then in about twenty pieces was a completely dismantled Tropicana
orange radio. And I stood back and I was like, Mom,
are you okay? What happened? That's your favorite thing? Is
it broken? And she looks up at me and she says, rae.
She goes, I'm fine. She's like the antenna was a
little busted. The dial wasn't working, so I'm fixing it.
And I stood there and I watched her work her magic,
(08:15):
and then I finally thought to ask the question I
should have always asked, which was this, Hey, mom, how
do you know how to do so many different things
that you've never done before? But nobody's shown you how
to do it? And she puts down her screwdriver and
she cocks her head to the side and she said, ray,
what are you talking about. Nothing in life is that complicated.
(08:37):
If you roll up your sleeves, you get in there
and you do it, everything is figure outable. And I
kid you, guys not. I stood there and I was like, whoa,
everything is everything is figure out? Well, I was like,
everything else big, Oh my goodness, everything is figure outible.
And so it was just this belief in possibility and
(08:58):
grittiness and going for it even though you have no
clue what the heck you're doing. That really became the
driving force in my life and still is today.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
And it was a great book. Yes, I grew up
with a single parent. She was a nurse and first
black nurse in her hometown, and very much so like
one day I would come home, even if she's worked
a double shift, and she had the outlets pulled out
literally of the wall, and she changed she was figuring
(09:28):
out how to change the electrical outlets in our house,
or you know. So it just reminded me of such
a beautiful book and so important for young girls. That
again that I bought not only a copy for myself
but for our daughter, and we read and studied and
talked about it together.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
That looks me so much. I can hardly even tell
you and thank you for sharing that. And I think
that so many of us, Chris, I know you come
from such scrappy beginnings as well, and we learned these
invaluable lessons about how to not let the fact that
you may not know or understand something stop you from
moving forward.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
Maria, I wanted to ask you a question. You know,
it was many years ago when you were twenty three
years old you had the courage to launch Marie TV
when many women at that time were not creating that
type of content. And that was courageous, that was adacious,
that was wonderful and obviously been now very successful. I'm
sure there's been lots of upstowns in that process. But
how did you find your confidence and trust in yourself
(10:29):
to go ahead and to create that vision, to create
that platform, to create that voice.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I was born in seventy five, so it was kind
of grown up in the eighties there. And my idea
of a successful, powerful business woman had like huge shoulder
pads and she was in this corner glass office. It
was kind of imagery that I think I just saw
in the media. And I had this notion that one
had to be perfectly educated and speak at a particular
(10:56):
level and use particular language in order to be successful.
And I remember being on Wall Street, on the floor
of the New York Stock Exchange and trying to kind
of step into my idealized image of what a successful
young woman was. And I tried to do that in
the magazine world, both on the advertising side and the
editorial side, and kind of all these different beautiful opportunities
(11:18):
that were career opportunities. But I kept feeling completely disconnected
because I was trying to be something that I wasn't.
And so after feeling like a failure and leaving jobs.
Even though I had a very strong work ethic and
I was never afraid of hard work, I couldn't deny
from a soul level that I wasn't where my soul
(11:41):
wanted me to be. And the moment that I relaxed
and said, you know what, I don't speak perfectly, I
don't have I graduated from college. I was the first
in my family to go to college. But I don't
have higher degrees. I am way far from perfect. I'm quirky,
I'm weird, I have a strange sense of humor. I
like all of these different things. And I started just
expressing the true essence of who I am. That's actually
(12:04):
when things started to come together. So releasing this notion
of perfection, releasing this notion of having to be someone
that I genuinely wasn't, that was the only place it
came from. That and just a lot of pain of
failure of trying to be something I wasn't and it
did not work out.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Marie, you spoke about where from pain comes courage, and
in the same way, Chris, we all know your story.
The world knows your story. How you know in your
early thirties you received what you know talk about pain
and courage. What would have been a devastating for most
people diagnosis in a rare and curable stage four cancer,
and instead of retreating from it, you built a movement
(12:44):
around health and wellness. Take us back to that moment,
and can you help us understand where you found that
courage from when you decided to share your story and
to build your movement.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I think my courage came out of fear, but also
out of anger, if I'm to be totally honest, because
you know, when you're in your early thirties and or
work for a lot of people young adults with cancer,
when you're just starting out, you're trying to get your
life together. You're trying to figure out who you're going
to be and how you're going to make a living,
and you know, maybe you've got dreams of starting a
(13:18):
family or whatever that is. And then something like an
incurable cancer diagnosis comes your way. It's so destabilizing, and
so the initial thing was I'm terrified, am I going
to live? I'm going to die? So I have this
rare cancer that can be slow growing, but it can
also be very aggressive, and so for me, it was
(13:39):
a first and foremost find the best doctor, figure out
what this thing is, and then come up with a
game plan. And the first doctor suggested a triple organ transplant,
and I thought that that was crazy. I had never
heard of anybody surviving something like that, and so I
said thank you, but no thank you again. Much like Marie,
(14:00):
I didn't have a higher degree. I actually wasn't even
interested in health and wellness. I figured, like fiber was
for later. Right now, I got to get my shit
together make a living, and so this was not something
that I thought was important or something that I wanted
to spend a lot of time educating myself on. But
then when you're up against the ropes, you find out
(14:20):
real quickly what you do need to put your focus on,
and for me, it was my health. And so I
went about interviewing all of these different doctors, and I
think it was my first experience of saying, Okay, honestly,
these people work for me, and I'm looking for my
second in command. It was my first first opportunity of
being a CEO, and it was just it was becoming
(14:43):
the CEO of my health, which is what I often
talk about. As I kept meeting more people and interviewing them,
I decided, Okay, once I find my second in command,
then I really have to look outside of the box,
and when I finally did, he was like, look, this
can be grow slow growing, it can be aggressive, all
the things I just share with you. Sometimes it can change.
(15:04):
And so we're just going to watch and wait, and
we're going to track you, and we're going to wait
for cancer to make the first move, and we're going
to get a baseline and until then, you're going to
watch and live. And I said, well, I don't really
know what that means, and he said, go figure it out.
And so it was through that fear and that frustration
(15:25):
that I decided to carve another path. And for me,
I think the anger was really about how come there
isn't a lot of information out there for people like me,
a young adult living with stage four cancer who doesn't
have the kind of opportunities to like have chemo and
radiation and surgery, And how come there isn't there are
(15:48):
any books or media or resources for people like us
who are living with these chronic diseases. And in a
lot of ways, you know, especially back then and even
before then, the Big Sea was still something that you
whispered about, you know, And so I think it was
part of the reason why I came out with the
film Crazy Sexy Cancer. Everybody said, do not call it that,
(16:12):
and I was like, oh, I'm calling it that, And honestly,
that's where it began. It came from my own pain,
as Marie would say, and then it just turned into
something else, especially when you take the thing that is
so difficult for you and then you can Marie and
I share this in common a lot, which is we
use our creativity as tools for our healing. And I
(16:35):
think that that's something that we both champion in each other.
Is her creative power is something that I'm in awe of.
It's something I always want her to continue to like
put a foot on the gas and move towards because
it's this unlimited supply of possibility and potential that I
get really inspired by. And I think I have moments
(16:56):
where I've offered the same experience for her, but ultimately
to you know, just get back to your question. I think, Marie, now,
did it came from pain?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
And I just want to take a moment because, particularly
if there are young women that are listening. But when
what both of you all have just talked about, you know,
I think sometimes we want to gloss over fear, anger, pain,
but leaning into those things.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
You know, we I say to our daughter all the
time that you know, courage is not not being afraid,
it's doing it even when you are afraid. But if
they can learn young women at such a young age
that in those moments, something beautiful can be birthed.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just mites tap
that button and stay connected to conversations that kept.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you brought Chris. I
gotta say why immediately. The friendship is so amazing Marie.
If I could ask a question, I always deeply moved
here and Chris speak a moment ago. I'm so curious
what has she taught you? Not through her words, though,
but how she lives her life.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I feel like I learned from my best friend every day,
and in terms of just witnessing how she shows up
in the world for everyone else. I have never witnessed
someone so committed to her family and her friends, like
when you are on Chris's inner circle. The things that
(18:34):
she's taught me is just you stop at nothing to
show up and dive full in when your people need you,
and Honestly, I've gone through the past probably a little
over two years for me, has been one of the
hardest of my life. Both of my parents their health declining.
And I know this is something in you know, a
journey that many of us go through in various ways,
(18:57):
and for me, it's it's been the past few years
and I think watching Chris over the course of our friendship,
how she showed up has really given me a lot
of strength for how I wanted to show up for
my own family and their time of need.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
And in fact, even on your Instagram, there is something
that I would like to share. You said that my
mom almost died last year twice my dad's health knows
died at the same time. It was the most hellish,
painful six months of my life. Can you talk a
(19:32):
little bit more about those six months and what you
learned in those moments of crisis.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, so those six months extended to over two years
and essentially, you know, and I'll say this and I
think it's important, and what I'm about to say is
it can be heard in a way that's like, wow,
this is shocking. But I want to say this because
I think many people experienced this in their lives and
(20:00):
have trouble finding people to relate to. But my mom
after being devastated by COVID in twenty twenty three. She's
a tiny woman. I've told a story about her already.
She's extremely resilient, and within about two weeks of having
COVID and no one knew it, she lost almost thirty pounds,
so she looked like a skeleton. She was in the
emergency room and the doctors kept telling her there was
(20:22):
nothing wrong with her. And if you would have seen her,
you would have said, she's probably close to death, like
what are you smoking. So as a person who wanted
to dive in and say, you know, we need to
handle this, it was like, at the same time that
my mom was crumbling, my dad we realized his memory
(20:42):
wasn't just some memory issues but going into dementia slash Alzheimer's.
So everything was crashing at once fast forward because it
was impossible for us to find anything that would help
my mom. She actually tried to take her own life
three times over the course of the past two years.
And so as you can imagine, very traumatic, very difficult,
(21:06):
and navigating quote unquote healthcare system that's not really designed
to get people well has been difficult, to say the least,
I think it has. The whole experience has shown me
really how many challenges we have in this country. You know,
as someone who prides myself on being a boss in
(21:28):
many ways, being hopefully a somewhat good communicator, and have
an ability to kind of navigate complex systems, it has
made my heartbreak to think about so many others who
have similar struggles, who don't have the experience or the
ability to do some of the things that I've been
able to do. The system is crushing. So I'll pause
(21:49):
there in a moment, but I just wanted to say
that for anyone who might be listening right now who
is going through an experience with chronic illness, aging parents,
my heart goes out to you. It will not last forever.
I think one of the things I've learned is how
important it is to give yourself breaks and take care
of yourself. And I think we need to keep having
(22:09):
these conversations because our population is aging, and we don't
really have the infrastructure or the support to help people
really exist in their last stages of life with dignity,
with safety, with care, and then all of the caregivers,
many of which we're in our thirties, forties, fifties and
sixties who are struggling with growing a family and their
(22:33):
children and then also having to take care of your
elders as well. So I think there's a lot of
opportunity for growth and transformation there.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
And how did Chris show up for you in those
in those six monks?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So can I tell you guys this? So we have
we have a code in text which is essentially an emoji,
and it's an ambulance emoji. That emoji is not used
all the time, but when one of us sends the
other the ambulance emoji, it is essentially I need you
right now. And we never quote unquote cry wolf. But
(23:06):
the way that Chris showed up for me is like
when I sent those emojis, like hey, this is happening
right now, she dropped everything and just strategized with me.
And she would often ask me, do you need me
to listen? Do we need to brainstorm? Do you need
me to get in my car? So it was kind
of that level of knowing that I was probably in
(23:28):
a really fragile state and that she opened the door
for me to be able to ask for the kind
of support I needed in a really traumatic moment.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
It's really on honor that and just myself and my
brother Craig. We lost our father about a handful of
weeks ago, but nine ten weeks ago. Sorry, thank you,
We appreciate that. So we do have a good understanding
of the dysfunction of the medical system that really separates
the mind and the body. And just want to say
how challenging that is. And I want to say thank
(24:02):
you for sharing that, and especially for sharing with such
detail and such rawness about the challenges your mom's gone through,
especially the last little while, because aging is difficult, but
aging parents without a medical system that really understands the
wholeness of that process is equally difficult. Chris, I want
to direct the same type of question for you to
(24:22):
give listeners inspiration, advice and courage. Let's take us back
to the pandemic, when your father was sick and was dying,
your business was struggling because of the pandemic, and you
just celebrated quote unquote your twentieth anniversary of having incurable cancer. Now,
for anybody else, any one of those would have been
a crisis. But this is mstaff felt like an emotional tsunami.
(24:46):
What pulled you through? What got you through through that moment?
What advice do you have for people that are going
through very challenging times.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I look back at that time, and I know all
the things that Marie has gone through in these past
for years, and I feel like I was just a
little ahead, meaning like the shit was hitting the fan
in my life, and I had more perspective when it
really hit the fan in her life. And so a
(25:14):
lot of the mistakes that I made in my own
life I could try to avoid in hers. So even
saying things like do you want me to listen, as
opposed to just barreling in with advice you have to
do this, you have to do that, you have to
do this, you know, was something that I learned through
my own experience of grief. I did not want to
touch grief. So as somebody who has lived with stage
(25:34):
four cancer for over two decades, you would think that
grief would be an emotion that I am very familiar with,
because there's a lot of grief that comes from the
loss of an identity, the loss of physical capabilities, the
loss of you know, your health. And yet I had
a blind spot because it felt so hot and so
(25:54):
big to me that if I thought that if I
even touched it, and what would happen is my whole
life footfall apart. Because there was so much systemic and
generational trauma in those places and in those hot spots,
and so I kept avoiding it. And I think for
me that avoidance would come through working harder, creating more,
(26:18):
helping others further, just hustle, and the more success I got,
the easier it was to continue down that path. So
it really wasn't until the pandemic and this constellation of
loss came my way. My father was my chosen father,
so I didn't meet my biological father until I was
(26:38):
a teenager, and so he and I had a very
very close relationship. We still do, and I actually think
Marie has a close relationship with him on the other side,
because she's always reminding me Ken said this, and Ken
would tell us to do that, and Ken would say
that this thing that you're doing is like naughty town, USA,
cut it out right. So she has had a lot
(26:59):
of she's been impacted by him as well, But it
was really those moments when everything starts to fall apart that,
I think we have this opportunity to do the deep healing.
And as a result of that, you know, my book
is called I'm Not a Morning Person, Morning with You,
and it's because I didn't want to be a morning person.
And yet it's those places that we avoid that often
(27:22):
hold our freedom, as everybody here knows, and then some
And so I went on this pilgrimage and this journey
that was really about having the courage to explore my
grief and then kind of understanding that we can't amputate
any of our emotions and expect to be whole. And
I believe going back to that first question of you know,
(27:45):
if joy is the is the path to a good life,
and you know, wholeness is the point, then we certainly
can't amputate something like grief. And so when everything was
going on and has continued to go on for both
of us, I think because I had had a little
bit of that experience, certainly living it, but also then
(28:05):
writing about it. Because when you write about something, you
have to put words to it in a different way
other than in how you would tell you this therapist.
And so in some ways I've felt very very privileged
to be Marie's best friend during this time, because I
felt like I had something to offer that the younger
me would not have had to offer.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And Chris just you can't amputate grief so powerful, so
important in terms of wholeness. But you were there and
you showed up with Marie, of course, and that was
really impactful. But what did Marie do to show up
for you and just give us some tangible things? And so,
(28:47):
if you have a best friend going through a crisis,
going through a difficult time, and when everybody to be
listening to this, Chris, how did Marie show up and
give you that love and connection that you needed, especially
at that time.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Well, Marie always keeps me connected to my source, and
I think that's one of the greatest things that she
does for me. She not only stands for me as
a person, but she stands for the parts of me
that I neglect, and there are plenty of them.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
What do you mean by that? What can you explain
that moment? That's really deep? To explain that lot.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So when you're going through difficult time, especially she now
that when you know your parents are getting older and
you're in the stage where maybe you're caring for young
people and older people. There's a lot of pressure on
you to be that caregiver, and there's a lot of
very serious decisions that also have to be made during
that time. So you need to be your sharpest, you
need to be at full capacity. Well, how can you
(29:38):
be at full capacity when you're absolutely exhausted and burnt out?
And so of course you're not going to take the
time in those moments, or you don't think that take
the time to recuperate and to really take care of
yourself because you're in fight or flight mode. You know,
somebody's survival is dependent on you and how you show up.
And so your best friend, and if you're like you
(30:00):
have a best friend like me who'll kick your ass,
will be the person who will say like, hey, you're
doing a great job, but you need this, or you
need to take care of yourself, or you need a
rest or you need play, you need to come to
the city, we need to have a good time, We
need to see a scary movie. Do you need me
to brainstorm? How can I help you? What doors can
I open for you? So it's all of those things right,
(30:23):
And she is truly the person that I would go
to when I have the best news on the planet,
and she's the first person I'm gonna go to when
I have the worst news on the planet, because she's
gonna hold my hair when I'm barfing because I'm totally
overwhelmed by what's going on. And then she's gonna give
me a hug, and then she's gonna say, how can
I help you put this back together again? And probably
(30:46):
if she's gonna help you put something back together again,
it's gonna come back together in a much better, stronger,
and more loving way.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
We feel each other very intuitively, and and I can
feel in Chris that she's depleted, Like I'm showing up
with my full humor. I might drive to her. She
lives a couple hours away. We love some of the
same foods. I'm like, we're making this soup, We're watching
our favorite show. We're doing X Y or Z, or
I'm making you come into the city and I'm cooking
(31:18):
for you and I'm going to take you shopping, or
I'm gonna somehow fill your well in a way that's
going to keep you aligned with that joy and yourself
and the fact that everything's gonna be okay and you
don't have to hold it together on your own, and
I got you. And if you need to just melt
and lose it and have it be messy, I will
(31:39):
sit here and get in the mess with you, and
you don't have to clean it up.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I got that too.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Coming up, Marie, four, Leo and Chris Carr shared the
relationship advice they wish they'd hurt sooner, and how they
show up for each other through life's toughest moments.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Now, talk a little bit about romantic relationships, because obviously
the two of you all are such a powerful system
for each other, but you've also built strong, loving partnerships
with two amazing men. Marie, I think it's been more
(32:19):
than two decades with your partner, Josh. Yes, we're coming
up almost on thirty thirty years together, and like us,
you were wise enough to have a partner with a
little bit of seasoning on them. I think that there's
a little bit of age the same with us, which
(32:41):
is absolutely so wonderful and spicy. But what have you
learned about what it really really takes to grow together
through the ups and downs of life with your romantic partner?
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Oh, my gosh. And by the way, this is something
Chris and I, Oh, we talk about this all the time.
But for me with Josh, so yeah, it's like twenty
two plus years and he is just such a magical, incredible, creative,
loving human being. And I can say this because we
say this often like the times, like we have so
(33:19):
much love and adoration and respect for one another and
there's such deep rapport and support and like soul level recognition,
and then at so many times we want to we're
just like I can't stand you, you know, like it's
just like we drive each other absolutely, Baddy. Try working
together too, Yes, oh gosh, I say this to Chris too.
(33:40):
I say this to Chris. I'm like, if Josh and
I work together, So Josh is primarily an actor, writer, director,
so he's in the entertainment field, and I've got, you know,
my own Loneline empire. If him and I work together,
I would be in an orange jumpsuit because I would
have murdered this or man and be just away for it.
Because that's the level that we can get to. I'm
(34:03):
joking obviously, but some of the things that we've learned,
I will say, probably the most I've done every retreat
one could do, read every book one could read, because
I'm that person who loves to learn and tries to
to just be a better person. And doctor Harville Hendrix
and Helen le Kelly Mago therapy. Yes, yes, yes, our
(34:28):
butt continues to save our butts on the car rides
where I'm like, really did you just say that? Or whatever?
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Imma going to the script.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
We try and then sometimes one of us slips out,
and of course, like if it's Josh, I'm like, you're
not doing dialogue.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
As a dutiful husband, and Craigzy's husband, just give us,
like the thirty seconds of what you're talking about with
the script and the therapy, we just take us a
step back and.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Very silent.
Speaker 7 (34:56):
Yes, yes, so so so, just just engage in phill.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
It is I think one of the most potent and
powerful ways of facilitating love and conversation, certainly in with
your romantic partners, you know, kind of dialoguing and really
hearing what your partner is saying and then not responding
as much. So for me, a lot of it is
(35:21):
so closely rooted in that the whole idea too, of
nonviolence and agape love because you separate, you separate the
actions or the words from the individual so that you
can come back together whole.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yes, and so anyone can google learn about it. They're
still teaching Harville and Helen and I recommend everyone you know,
get a hold of their books, watch their videos. There's
a new documentary that's out. It's fabulous stuff, whether it's
romantic or otherwise. But I think Josh and I really,
for me, I have to always come back to celebrating
our differences. Yeah, we're very very different people because each
(35:55):
of us in their philosophical and kind of research clinical framework,
you know, we all have wounds that were formed very
early on that sort of determine our lens on the world,
and that in our romantic relationships are very often we're
almost magnetically attracted to the exact opposite of who's going
(36:15):
to push your buttons so that you can both heal together.
And so for Josh and I, we find that, for example,
one of my fears is being suffocated, so I love freedom.
I love freedom. I love freedom. And Joshi's fear, his
kind of core childhood wound, is being abandoned. So you
could just see when one person doesn't want to be suffocated,
and one person doesn't want to be abandoned. You have,
(36:38):
like a salomnpepper shaker of the exact things that will
drive it with our bonkers. So I think for us
celebrating the differences, coming back to tools that actually work.
I think also the courage to know I am not
the same person that I was twenty two plus years ago,
and neither is he. Being able to courageously sit and
(37:03):
talk and discover anew who this person is now, who
do they want to become? And can we continue to
grow together without holding one another back and honoring our
differences as we both evolve forward, And that's like an
ever growing dance. We certainly don't always get it right,
(37:26):
but what I'm proud of is that we keep coming
back to the core of we love each other. We
want to see each other happy, We're committed to each
other's health and well being, and we're committed to it
being messy and too working it through when things aren't
going well. And that's you know that can be often
(37:47):
in any human relationship where you have friction.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
And Chris, I know that Brian has been with you
throughout from your diagnosis to your healing. What has he
taught you about love partnership?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Well, you know, prior to Brian, I was always looking
for the guy who would leave me. Basically, so I
for me, my core woman is also abandonment. It's somebody
who met her father later in life. My father left
when I was conceived, and so I think I was
always looking for that daddy figure. And I remember as
(38:24):
a child thinking, well, if I am successful, maybe one
day he'll hear about me and he'll want to meet
me because I'll have value, right, And so I would,
and I also imagine what he might have been like.
I saw him as like this big warrior and you know,
he's a lot of bravado. I don't know where my
little childhood mind came up with all this stuff, maybe
(38:46):
like superhero type of stuff. And so I was always
looking for that big warrior, bravado guy who had a
lot of charisma and a lot of daddy troubles too, right.
And so it really wasn't until my dad diagnosis that
as I was healing other aspects of my life and
really kind of saying, okay, if you only have a
(39:07):
certain amount of time left, If that's the case, how
do you want to spend it that I think I
saw somebody like Brian.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
We knew each other and we had been in previous
relationships and we had been in our friend circles, but
I hadn't seen him as somebody who could be a
partner with me. And so Brian is a filmmaker. He
is an Emmy Award winning editor film editor. And when
I was making my film Crazy Sexy Cancer, one of
our mutual friends was like, maybe Brian can cut a
(39:37):
little trailer for you, because they knew that I wanted
to submit it to a little industry night to see
if so I could get representation. So he cut that
trailer for me, and he started to teach me a
whole lot about filmmaking because I had always been in
front of the camera, but right before my diagnosis, I
had moved to wanting to be behind the camera because
I wanted to basically call the shots. And we were
(39:58):
a little bit dam but not really. It was really
for me. It was about the focus of the film.
But as this four years went on, you know, making
the project together, you know, he became the partner that
I always I think deserved and hadn't didn't see because
I was so tracked in my own wounds. And so
(40:21):
we ended up leaving our careers and working together. And
I think that in and of itself becomes this practice
for relationship. As Marie has said, we have had many
conversations where we've coached each other through hot relationship moments.
And I'd say the biggest thing that I have learned
from him specifically is, and Marie loves when I say this,
(40:43):
so you will know exactly what I'm saying, Marie, is
the only time you can change somebody is when they're
in diapers.
Speaker 7 (40:50):
That's one of the best That's good, yes, is that at
the beginning of life and the end of life.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Or just the beginning of life, just obviously go back,
got it?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
And I've had to learn. I had to learn, like, Okay,
who is this person that I'm with that I can
like champion and love and love for who he is.
And and then if you want to change somebody, it's
because there's something in you that really is desiring to
be healed. And so for me, it was like, Okay,
I got the focus on the wrong place. What are
(41:23):
the wounds? What's the what are the booboos, what are
the hurt nooks and crannies of my being that need
that care? And then I think, I mean, I'm still
on this path. But the more work we put into
that area, I guess our relationships benefit too, because we
sort of like let the love flourish as opposed to,
(41:45):
you know, try to control and suffocate it and make
it look a certain way that it doesn't want to
be in the first place.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
That's amazing. And sometimes we say, particularly with the quote
you can only change one in diapers.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Now that a preach and that comes directly from a
preacher's KIDK.
Speaker 6 (42:08):
So there you go, preach, I can make a whole
sermon around it. I want to ask both of you
something about uh, particularly for our single listeners UH, because
certainly dating can be frustrating and challenging, and you know,
(42:32):
everybody has a checklist. What maybe what's one thing that
you were looking for in your twenties, but now it's
what you love most about your partner?
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Before you answer this, did you ever think in your
life that Martin Luther King would be asking you about
your dating checklist?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
No?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
No, I cannot wait for dinner tonight. I'll be like honey,
tell you about my day.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
So, just as a little context, Jersey girl Italian American
grew up on the Jersey shore, which really big hair,
lots of tanning beds, gold gym, muscles, guidos. I can
say that because I'm Italian American, So like probably on
my list in my early twenties was like a really
good tan and gold chains. And then as it got
(43:30):
to like a more mature age, someone like Josh who
is so willing to do the work. And when I
say the work, I mean the work of loving themselves
and another human being who is as flawed as I am,
who is as wild as I am, who has as
(43:52):
many different expressions as I am. So somebody who's willing
to not just you know, assume that they know it all,
but be willing to be curious and growing and learn.
So yeah, from from tans and kind of oiled up
big muscles and gold chains to the inner.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
You know, I don't even know if I knew what
I wanted. I was just sort of flailing all around,
you know, back then. But what I know now is
that I really am so grateful to have a partner
that I love talking to that is endlessly curious that
you know, can dive into any topic out there. Even
(44:32):
when we go out and we meet people and maybe
he doesn't know anything about the thing that they do,
he's endlessly fascinated by it and he wants to have
those really wonderful conversations. And I think, as my life
has continued, it's just so we it's so we're so
lucky when we can have deep conversations with the people
(44:53):
that we love.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
And I do want to take us back to where
we began, which is the just the deep and unwavering
friendship between the two of you. All part of that too,
showing up and being there for each other. Sometimes you
have to kind of stand in some hard truth or
one truth, and so I would like to ask each
(45:17):
of you what would be the one truth that you
have said to each other that you all really needed
to hear at that moment.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I can be very hard headed, I will say that,
and I sometimes I'm like, I need to open everything
as figure outable. Oh wow, I wrote that. Boy, do
I need a reminder? Here's what I want to say.
I will find the truth. But I just want to,
like with Chris, she's really the one person in the
world and I really think she is the only person
(45:49):
in the world who can say what may be to
perhaps my ego, you know, like a painful truth, and
to not have me want to like slapper one person,
because she will know how to kind of talk about intention,
to like kind of fill the space with love and
say hey, because I know she's standing for the essence
(46:14):
of me, the soul of me, the highest of me
that I can I know she's speaking never to hurt me,
but to help me rise up and to help me
ease my suffering. One of the things that I always
wrestle with, less so now than in my earlier years,
but is really like this ultra competitive comparison kind of
(46:36):
thing in my head that I'm not doing enough, that
oh I should be doing more. It's kind of this
addiction to productivity and achievement, and some of which can
be really beautiful and that can drive us, and then
for me, I've noticed it can go awry and it
can be a monster that can feel just terrible inside.
And any time that I've found myself in a space
(46:56):
like that where I'm torturing me and I'm still, you know,
no matter how hard I'm working or how much I'm producing,
it's still never enough. And let's say I'm comparing myself
to a colleague or somebody out there, She'll be the
one to be like, Okay, well this is what I
know about you, Marie, you are such a powerful manifestor
do you really want that? Do you want X, Y
or Z? Because I know you could get it and
(47:16):
we could write down, does that do you really want that?
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Life?
Speaker 1 (47:18):
And then when she does that to me, I'm now like,
its like it brings it all together. So she has
this way of taming my inner demons and my monsters,
and so the truth is really getting me back aligned
with how powerful of a creator that I am. And
the truth I usually need to hear is like I'm
(47:39):
doing exactly what I really want to do. It's this
thing and I'm pointing to my head for all of
our listeners. It's my mind that can often take me
off into these very tortuous places.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
So with me, I as much I will stand for
people and stand for people in my family especially, and
you know, my inner inner circle, I can also disappear
and vanish and hide and you know, become my own
little happy hermit cave dweller and Marie always knows when
it's gone too far, and she'll just you know, pull
(48:15):
me out of the cave, sometimes by my hair, but
always lovingly. But also there are those moments when I
actually don't know how to use my voice, and they
tend to be in similar situations, and literally she will
coach me and she'll give me the script to follow.
(48:36):
And you think that when you are grown up, you
don't need help with things like scripts and how to
talk to people, but I think oftentimes we actually do,
especially when they're conversations that are difficult and maybe scary,
And when I say scary, because they're tapping into something
an old wound or a place that still needs love
and care in ourselves. And so she's my script doctor.
Speaker 7 (49:00):
That's awesome, script doctor. What a great conversation. Thank you, guys.
This has just been absolutely remarkable.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
And just listening to the two of you, I gotta say,
I think this is one of my favorite episodes You've
ever had because of just the vulnerability, the rawness, the
holding each other accountable, the storytelling, and just clearly the
love between the two of you. It's just such a
beautiful model for friendship. Courage comes from pain, the places
(49:26):
we avoid hold our freedom. We cannot amputate any emotions
and expect to be whole. And of course, I think
my personal favorite only time we could change someone in diapers.
I think that one my wife is going to quote
to me a few times. The two of you have
brought such a beautiful friendship to share with us.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us. If
you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us on
at my Legacy Movement on social media and YouTube. New
episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday. At
its core, this podcast honors doctor King's vision of the
(50:10):
beloved community and the power of connection. A Legacy Plus
Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Suzanne
Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you get your podcasts on
One of the things that I always wrestle with is
really like this ultra competitive comparison kind of thing in
my head that I'm not doing enough.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Marie Folio is a powerhouse entrepreneur, the creator of Marie TV,
a best selling author, and a world class coach. But
in this conversation, Marie isn't in mentoring mode. She's opening
up in a big way. Alongside her best friend Chris Carr.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
She is my first, my last, my only phone called
when everything is going right, or most frequently when everything
is going.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Wrong, and they don't hold back from the heartbreak to
the healing.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
She opened the door for me to be able to
ask for the kind of support I needed in a
really traumatic moment.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
The shit was hitting the fan in my life, and
I had more perspective when it really hit the fan
in her life.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And after digging deep, they bring the laughter and real talk.
Only your ride or Die dare.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
To share the only person in the world who can
say painful truth and to not have Nylana like slapper.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Is the only time you can change somebody is when
they're in diapers.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Now that a freach.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Join host Martin Luther King the Third Andrea Waters king
Mark Kilberger and Craig Kilberger for an honest, unapologetic conversation
about relationships, finding light in the darkest moments, and the
biggest lessons learned along the way.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I stood there and I was like WHOA.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Before today's episode begins, please be advised this conversation includes
discussions about suicide and mental health. Some of the content
may be distressing. If you or someone you know is struggling,
help is available. Call the National Suicide in Crisis Lifeline
at nine to eighty eight or text home to seven
four one seven four one to reach the crisis text line.
(02:03):
These services are free and available twenty four to seven.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Welcome to My Legacy. Today's guest is Marie Fourlio. Marie
built her business and platform on purpose, resilience, an unshakable belief,
and she's made a career of helping others unlock the same. Marie,
We're so honored to have you with us here today
and on My Legacy. We always ask our guests to
bring a plus one, someone who they admire, they turn
(02:29):
to in times of challenge and grief and hope, someone
who's their ride or die. Marie, can you introduce who
your plus one?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Is today, I brought the one and only magical Unicorn, herself,
Miss Chris Carr. And for those of you who do
not know my best friend in the entire world, she
is a powerhouse herself. She is a multiple New York
Times Number one best selling author. She is someone who
has spent over two decades of her life not just
(02:57):
surviving but thriving with cant and has inspired millions to
do the same. She's got books, she's got podcasts, through
her coaching, through everything she shares with the world. The
New York Times has called her a new role model,
and Oprah has named her a force for good and
for good reason. And personally, Chris is literally she's my
(03:18):
soul sister. Like we talk about this all the time.
We do not understand how we are not legitimate family,
but we are meant family, and she is the person.
We were talking about this the other day, like we
have never let each other down, and we started celebrating
our friend anniversary. I think it's been over fifteen years.
(03:38):
And she is my first, my last, my only phone
call when everything is going right or most frequently when
everything is going wrong, because that happens to all of
us in life.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Had a spectacular introduction.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Chris, When did you know that Marie was going to
be your soul sister, your friends, your lifelong writer, die.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Companion from the first moment I spoke to her. So
we at each other because back in the day when
you're doing everything and you're building your life and you're
building your business, and you're wearing all the hats as
young puppy entrepreneurs, we were also our customer service. And
so I bought one of her products because so many
(04:18):
people had said to me, you should, you should know
about Marie. You should. You guys would really love each other,
and so I was like, Oh, who is this Marie?
And so I went and I bought her live in
the moment booty camp. And I was like, I don't
know what any of that is, but it sounds like
I need to know what it is and have a
little bit of that in my life. And we got
(04:38):
on the phone and we have not stopped talking ever since.
Speaker 6 (04:42):
That is so so special. Let me Marie ask a question.
You grew up in a small town in New Jersey
and have said your mom was a big factor in
shaping your grit. What do you carry forward from those
early years.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Well so much. But I think the quick story that
I will tell that has really shaped my life was
the fact that my mom, like so many of our parents,
didn't grow up with a lot of resources. She actually
had two alcoholic parents and grew up in the Nork,
New Jersey, and she learned, really by necessity, how to
stretch a dollar bill around a block like five or
(05:20):
six times. And she had made a promise to herself
when she was young that she would somehow find a
way to a better life. And so one of my
best memories as a kid was sitting around her kitchen
table in New Jersey, and it was Sundays and cutting
out coupons because my mom loved to teach me all
the ways that our family could save money. And so
I think most of the people here were all of
(05:41):
a certain age where you might remember something that were
called proofs of purchase, where if you purchased a bunch
of boxes of cereal for particular brand or right milk cartons,
and you collected all those little squares and you mailed
them in, you could get cool stuff like cooking utensils
or a recipe book or something. And my mom's favorite
thing that she loved more than anything was this tiny
(06:03):
little AMFM radio that she got for free from Tropicana
Orange Juice. So it looked like an orange I had
red white straw sticking out of the top that was
the antenna. And as a kid, I knew I could
always find my mom somewhere from listening to the tiny
little sound of this radio. So one day coming home
from school, walking home, and I hear like Diana Ross blasting,
(06:26):
you know, really small out of this radio. And as
I approach the house, it's coming from a weird orientation,
and I look up and I see my tiny little
mom perched precariously on the roof of our two story house,
no ladder, no nothing. I'm terrified. I'm like, Mom, what
are you doing up there? Are you okay? And she
yells down and she's like, ree, don't worry about it.
(06:49):
The roofer. You know, there's a leak. The roofer said
it was going to be at least five hundred bucks
to fix it. I said, screw that, I'm doing it myself.
So that gives you a little flavor of MoMA Poorlia
sounds a me So for context, this was the nineteen eighties, right,
This is all pre Internet, this is pre Google, this
is pre YouTube. And my mom only had a high
school education. So one day it was in the fall,
(07:12):
I'm coming home from school and it was dark. Out's Jersey, right,
It's like four o'clock and it's spooky already. And as
I'm approaching the house, everything is dark and it's quiet.
Now I'm Italian American and if your house is dark
and quiet, this is not good news. So I'm terrified.
I'm like, what's going on? Where's my mom? Got that
(07:33):
pit in my stomach, like something is seriously wrong. So
I walk in the house silence, and then I start
hearing these little clicks and clacks from the kitchen. I
tiptoe over and I see my mom in the kitchen.
She's hunched over the table and it looks like an
operating room. There's a spotlight on screwdrivers, electrical tape, and
(07:54):
then in about twenty pieces was a completely dismantled Tropicana
orange radio. And I stood back and I was like, Mom,
are you okay? What happened? That's your favorite thing? Is
it broken? And she looks up at me and she says, rae.
She goes, I'm fine. She's like the antenna was a
little busted. The dial wasn't working, so I'm fixing it.
And I stood there and I watched her work her magic,
(08:15):
and then I finally thought to ask the question I
should have always asked, which was this, Hey, mom, how
do you know how to do so many different things
that you've never done before? But nobody's shown you how
to do it? And she puts down her screwdriver and
she cocks her head to the side and she said, ray,
what are you talking about. Nothing in life is that complicated.
(08:37):
If you roll up your sleeves, you get in there
and you do it, everything is figure outable. And I
kid you, guys not. I stood there and I was like, whoa,
everything is everything is figure out? Well, I was like,
everything else big, Oh my goodness, everything is figure outible.
And so it was just this belief in possibility and
(08:58):
grittiness and going for it even though you have no
clue what the heck you're doing. That really became the
driving force in my life and still is today.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
And it was a great book. Yes, I grew up
with a single parent. She was a nurse and first
black nurse in her hometown, and very much so like
one day I would come home, even if she's worked
a double shift, and she had the outlets pulled out
literally of the wall, and she changed she was figuring
(09:28):
out how to change the electrical outlets in our house,
or you know. So it just reminded me of such
a beautiful book and so important for young girls. That
again that I bought not only a copy for myself
but for our daughter, and we read and studied and
talked about it together.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
That looks me so much. I can hardly even tell
you and thank you for sharing that. And I think
that so many of us, Chris, I know you come
from such scrappy beginnings as well, and we learned these
invaluable lessons about how to not let the fact that
you may not know or understand something stop you from
moving forward.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
Maria, I wanted to ask you a question. You know,
it was many years ago when you were twenty three
years old you had the courage to launch Marie TV
when many women at that time were not creating that
type of content. And that was courageous, that was adacious,
that was wonderful and obviously been now very successful. I'm
sure there's been lots of upstowns in that process. But
how did you find your confidence and trust in yourself
(10:29):
to go ahead and to create that vision, to create
that platform, to create that voice.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I was born in seventy five, so it was kind
of grown up in the eighties there. And my idea
of a successful, powerful business woman had like huge shoulder
pads and she was in this corner glass office. It
was kind of imagery that I think I just saw
in the media. And I had this notion that one
had to be perfectly educated and speak at a particular
(10:56):
level and use particular language in order to be successful.
And I remember being on Wall Street, on the floor
of the New York Stock Exchange and trying to kind
of step into my idealized image of what a successful
young woman was. And I tried to do that in
the magazine world, both on the advertising side and the
editorial side, and kind of all these different beautiful opportunities
(11:18):
that were career opportunities. But I kept feeling completely disconnected
because I was trying to be something that I wasn't.
And so after feeling like a failure and leaving jobs.
Even though I had a very strong work ethic and
I was never afraid of hard work, I couldn't deny
from a soul level that I wasn't where my soul
(11:41):
wanted me to be. And the moment that I relaxed
and said, you know what, I don't speak perfectly, I
don't have I graduated from college. I was the first
in my family to go to college. But I don't
have higher degrees. I am way far from perfect. I'm quirky,
I'm weird, I have a strange sense of humor. I
like all of these different things. And I started just
expressing the true essence of who I am. That's actually
(12:04):
when things started to come together. So releasing this notion
of perfection, releasing this notion of having to be someone
that I genuinely wasn't, that was the only place it
came from. That and just a lot of pain of
failure of trying to be something I wasn't and it
did not work out.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Marie, you spoke about where from pain comes courage, and
in the same way, Chris, we all know your story.
The world knows your story. How you know in your
early thirties you received what you know talk about pain
and courage. What would have been a devastating for most
people diagnosis in a rare and curable stage four cancer,
and instead of retreating from it, you built a movement
(12:44):
around health and wellness. Take us back to that moment,
and can you help us understand where you found that
courage from when you decided to share your story and
to build your movement.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I think my courage came out of fear, but also
out of anger, if I'm to be totally honest, because
you know, when you're in your early thirties and or
work for a lot of people young adults with cancer,
when you're just starting out, you're trying to get your
life together. You're trying to figure out who you're going
to be and how you're going to make a living,
and you know, maybe you've got dreams of starting a
(13:18):
family or whatever that is. And then something like an
incurable cancer diagnosis comes your way. It's so destabilizing, and
so the initial thing was I'm terrified, am I going
to live? I'm going to die? So I have this
rare cancer that can be slow growing, but it can
also be very aggressive, and so for me, it was
(13:39):
a first and foremost find the best doctor, figure out
what this thing is, and then come up with a
game plan. And the first doctor suggested a triple organ transplant,
and I thought that that was crazy. I had never
heard of anybody surviving something like that, and so I
said thank you, but no thank you again. Much like Marie,
(14:00):
I didn't have a higher degree. I actually wasn't even
interested in health and wellness. I figured, like fiber was
for later. Right now, I got to get my shit
together make a living, and so this was not something
that I thought was important or something that I wanted
to spend a lot of time educating myself on. But
then when you're up against the ropes, you find out
(14:20):
real quickly what you do need to put your focus on,
and for me, it was my health. And so I
went about interviewing all of these different doctors, and I
think it was my first experience of saying, Okay, honestly,
these people work for me, and I'm looking for my
second in command. It was my first first opportunity of
being a CEO, and it was just it was becoming
(14:43):
the CEO of my health, which is what I often
talk about. As I kept meeting more people and interviewing them,
I decided, Okay, once I find my second in command,
then I really have to look outside of the box,
and when I finally did, he was like, look, this
can be grow slow growing, it can be aggressive, all
the things I just share with you. Sometimes it can change.
(15:04):
And so we're just going to watch and wait, and
we're going to track you, and we're going to wait
for cancer to make the first move, and we're going
to get a baseline and until then, you're going to
watch and live. And I said, well, I don't really
know what that means, and he said, go figure it out.
And so it was through that fear and that frustration
(15:25):
that I decided to carve another path. And for me,
I think the anger was really about how come there
isn't a lot of information out there for people like me,
a young adult living with stage four cancer who doesn't
have the kind of opportunities to like have chemo and
radiation and surgery, And how come there isn't there are
(15:48):
any books or media or resources for people like us
who are living with these chronic diseases. And in a
lot of ways, you know, especially back then and even
before then, the Big Sea was still something that you
whispered about, you know, And so I think it was
part of the reason why I came out with the
film Crazy Sexy Cancer. Everybody said, do not call it that,
(16:12):
and I was like, oh, I'm calling it that, And honestly,
that's where it began. It came from my own pain,
as Marie would say, and then it just turned into
something else, especially when you take the thing that is
so difficult for you and then you can Marie and
I share this in common a lot, which is we
use our creativity as tools for our healing. And I
(16:35):
think that that's something that we both champion in each other.
Is her creative power is something that I'm in awe of.
It's something I always want her to continue to like
put a foot on the gas and move towards because
it's this unlimited supply of possibility and potential that I
get really inspired by. And I think I have moments
(16:56):
where I've offered the same experience for her, but ultimately
to you know, just get back to your question. I think, Marie, now,
did it came from pain?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
And I just want to take a moment because, particularly
if there are young women that are listening. But when
what both of you all have just talked about, you know,
I think sometimes we want to gloss over fear, anger, pain,
but leaning into those things.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
You know, we I say to our daughter all the
time that you know, courage is not not being afraid,
it's doing it even when you are afraid. But if
they can learn young women at such a young age
that in those moments, something beautiful can be birthed.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just mites tap
that button and stay connected to conversations that kept.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you brought Chris. I
gotta say why immediately. The friendship is so amazing Marie.
If I could ask a question, I always deeply moved
here and Chris speak a moment ago. I'm so curious
what has she taught you? Not through her words, though,
but how she lives her life.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I feel like I learned from my best friend every day,
and in terms of just witnessing how she shows up
in the world for everyone else. I have never witnessed
someone so committed to her family and her friends, like
when you are on Chris's inner circle. The things that
(18:34):
she's taught me is just you stop at nothing to
show up and dive full in when your people need you,
and Honestly, I've gone through the past probably a little
over two years for me, has been one of the
hardest of my life. Both of my parents their health declining.
And I know this is something in you know, a
journey that many of us go through in various ways,
(18:57):
and for me, it's it's been the past few years
and I think watching Chris over the course of our friendship,
how she showed up has really given me a lot
of strength for how I wanted to show up for
my own family and their time of need.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
And in fact, even on your Instagram, there is something
that I would like to share. You said that my
mom almost died last year twice my dad's health knows
died at the same time. It was the most hellish,
painful six months of my life. Can you talk a
(19:32):
little bit more about those six months and what you
learned in those moments of crisis.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, so those six months extended to over two years
and essentially, you know, and I'll say this and I
think it's important, and what I'm about to say is
it can be heard in a way that's like, wow,
this is shocking. But I want to say this because
I think many people experienced this in their lives and
(20:00):
have trouble finding people to relate to. But my mom
after being devastated by COVID in twenty twenty three. She's
a tiny woman. I've told a story about her already.
She's extremely resilient, and within about two weeks of having
COVID and no one knew it, she lost almost thirty pounds,
so she looked like a skeleton. She was in the
emergency room and the doctors kept telling her there was
(20:22):
nothing wrong with her. And if you would have seen her,
you would have said, she's probably close to death, like
what are you smoking. So as a person who wanted
to dive in and say, you know, we need to
handle this, it was like, at the same time that
my mom was crumbling, my dad we realized his memory
(20:42):
wasn't just some memory issues but going into dementia slash Alzheimer's.
So everything was crashing at once fast forward because it
was impossible for us to find anything that would help
my mom. She actually tried to take her own life
three times over the course of the past two years.
And so as you can imagine, very traumatic, very difficult,
(21:06):
and navigating quote unquote healthcare system that's not really designed
to get people well has been difficult, to say the least,
I think it has. The whole experience has shown me
really how many challenges we have in this country. You know,
as someone who prides myself on being a boss in
(21:28):
many ways, being hopefully a somewhat good communicator, and have
an ability to kind of navigate complex systems, it has
made my heartbreak to think about so many others who
have similar struggles, who don't have the experience or the
ability to do some of the things that I've been
able to do. The system is crushing. So I'll pause
(21:49):
there in a moment, but I just wanted to say
that for anyone who might be listening right now who
is going through an experience with chronic illness, aging parents,
my heart goes out to you. It will not last forever.
I think one of the things I've learned is how
important it is to give yourself breaks and take care
of yourself. And I think we need to keep having
(22:09):
these conversations because our population is aging, and we don't
really have the infrastructure or the support to help people
really exist in their last stages of life with dignity,
with safety, with care, and then all of the caregivers,
many of which we're in our thirties, forties, fifties and
sixties who are struggling with growing a family and their
(22:33):
children and then also having to take care of your
elders as well. So I think there's a lot of
opportunity for growth and transformation there.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
And how did Chris show up for you in those
in those six monks?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So can I tell you guys this? So we have
we have a code in text which is essentially an emoji,
and it's an ambulance emoji. That emoji is not used
all the time, but when one of us sends the
other the ambulance emoji, it is essentially I need you
right now. And we never quote unquote cry wolf. But
(23:06):
the way that Chris showed up for me is like
when I sent those emojis, like hey, this is happening
right now, she dropped everything and just strategized with me.
And she would often ask me, do you need me
to listen? Do we need to brainstorm? Do you need
me to get in my car? So it was kind
of that level of knowing that I was probably in
(23:28):
a really fragile state and that she opened the door
for me to be able to ask for the kind
of support I needed in a really traumatic moment.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
It's really on honor that and just myself and my
brother Craig. We lost our father about a handful of
weeks ago, but nine ten weeks ago. Sorry, thank you,
We appreciate that. So we do have a good understanding
of the dysfunction of the medical system that really separates
the mind and the body. And just want to say
how challenging that is. And I want to say thank
(24:02):
you for sharing that, and especially for sharing with such
detail and such rawness about the challenges your mom's gone through,
especially the last little while, because aging is difficult, but
aging parents without a medical system that really understands the
wholeness of that process is equally difficult. Chris, I want
to direct the same type of question for you to
(24:22):
give listeners inspiration, advice and courage. Let's take us back
to the pandemic, when your father was sick and was dying,
your business was struggling because of the pandemic, and you
just celebrated quote unquote your twentieth anniversary of having incurable cancer. Now,
for anybody else, any one of those would have been
a crisis. But this is mstaff felt like an emotional tsunami.
(24:46):
What pulled you through? What got you through through that moment?
What advice do you have for people that are going
through very challenging times.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I look back at that time, and I know all
the things that Marie has gone through in these past
for years, and I feel like I was just a
little ahead, meaning like the shit was hitting the fan
in my life, and I had more perspective when it
really hit the fan in her life. And so a
(25:14):
lot of the mistakes that I made in my own
life I could try to avoid in hers. So even
saying things like do you want me to listen, as
opposed to just barreling in with advice you have to
do this, you have to do that, you have to
do this, you know, was something that I learned through
my own experience of grief. I did not want to
touch grief. So as somebody who has lived with stage
(25:34):
four cancer for over two decades, you would think that
grief would be an emotion that I am very familiar with,
because there's a lot of grief that comes from the
loss of an identity, the loss of physical capabilities, the
loss of you know, your health. And yet I had
a blind spot because it felt so hot and so
(25:54):
big to me that if I thought that if I
even touched it, and what would happen is my whole
life footfall apart. Because there was so much systemic and
generational trauma in those places and in those hot spots,
and so I kept avoiding it. And I think for
me that avoidance would come through working harder, creating more,
(26:18):
helping others further, just hustle, and the more success I got,
the easier it was to continue down that path. So
it really wasn't until the pandemic and this constellation of
loss came my way. My father was my chosen father,
so I didn't meet my biological father until I was
(26:38):
a teenager, and so he and I had a very
very close relationship. We still do, and I actually think
Marie has a close relationship with him on the other side,
because she's always reminding me Ken said this, and Ken
would tell us to do that, and Ken would say
that this thing that you're doing is like naughty town, USA,
cut it out right. So she has had a lot
(26:59):
of she's been impacted by him as well, But it
was really those moments when everything starts to fall apart that,
I think we have this opportunity to do the deep healing.
And as a result of that, you know, my book
is called I'm Not a Morning Person, Morning with You,
and it's because I didn't want to be a morning person.
And yet it's those places that we avoid that often
(27:22):
hold our freedom, as everybody here knows, and then some
And so I went on this pilgrimage and this journey
that was really about having the courage to explore my
grief and then kind of understanding that we can't amputate
any of our emotions and expect to be whole. And
I believe going back to that first question of you know,
(27:45):
if joy is the is the path to a good life,
and you know, wholeness is the point, then we certainly
can't amputate something like grief. And so when everything was
going on and has continued to go on for both
of us, I think because I had had a little
bit of that experience, certainly living it, but also then
(28:05):
writing about it. Because when you write about something, you
have to put words to it in a different way
other than in how you would tell you this therapist.
And so in some ways I've felt very very privileged
to be Marie's best friend during this time, because I
felt like I had something to offer that the younger
me would not have had to offer.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And Chris just you can't amputate grief so powerful, so
important in terms of wholeness. But you were there and
you showed up with Marie, of course, and that was
really impactful. But what did Marie do to show up
for you and just give us some tangible things? And so,
(28:47):
if you have a best friend going through a crisis,
going through a difficult time, and when everybody to be
listening to this, Chris, how did Marie show up and
give you that love and connection that you needed, especially
at that time.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Well, Marie always keeps me connected to my source, and
I think that's one of the greatest things that she
does for me. She not only stands for me as
a person, but she stands for the parts of me
that I neglect, and there are plenty of them.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
What do you mean by that? What can you explain
that moment? That's really deep? To explain that lot.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So when you're going through difficult time, especially she now
that when you know your parents are getting older and
you're in the stage where maybe you're caring for young
people and older people. There's a lot of pressure on
you to be that caregiver, and there's a lot of
very serious decisions that also have to be made during
that time. So you need to be your sharpest, you
need to be at full capacity. Well, how can you
(29:38):
be at full capacity when you're absolutely exhausted and burnt out?
And so of course you're not going to take the
time in those moments, or you don't think that take
the time to recuperate and to really take care of
yourself because you're in fight or flight mode. You know,
somebody's survival is dependent on you and how you show up.
And so your best friend, and if you're like you
(30:00):
have a best friend like me who'll kick your ass,
will be the person who will say like, hey, you're
doing a great job, but you need this, or you
need to take care of yourself, or you need a
rest or you need play, you need to come to
the city, we need to have a good time, We
need to see a scary movie. Do you need me
to brainstorm? How can I help you? What doors can
I open for you? So it's all of those things right,
(30:23):
And she is truly the person that I would go
to when I have the best news on the planet,
and she's the first person I'm gonna go to when
I have the worst news on the planet, because she's
gonna hold my hair when I'm barfing because I'm totally
overwhelmed by what's going on. And then she's gonna give
me a hug, and then she's gonna say, how can
I help you put this back together again? And probably
(30:46):
if she's gonna help you put something back together again,
it's gonna come back together in a much better, stronger,
and more loving way.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
We feel each other very intuitively, and and I can
feel in Chris that she's depleted, Like I'm showing up
with my full humor. I might drive to her. She
lives a couple hours away. We love some of the
same foods. I'm like, we're making this soup, We're watching
our favorite show. We're doing X Y or Z, or
I'm making you come into the city and I'm cooking
(31:18):
for you and I'm going to take you shopping, or
I'm gonna somehow fill your well in a way that's
going to keep you aligned with that joy and yourself
and the fact that everything's gonna be okay and you
don't have to hold it together on your own, and
I got you. And if you need to just melt
and lose it and have it be messy, I will
(31:39):
sit here and get in the mess with you, and
you don't have to clean it up.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I got that too.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Coming up, Marie, four, Leo and Chris Carr shared the
relationship advice they wish they'd hurt sooner, and how they
show up for each other through life's toughest moments.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Now, talk a little bit about romantic relationships, because obviously
the two of you all are such a powerful system
for each other, but you've also built strong, loving partnerships
with two amazing men. Marie, I think it's been more
(32:19):
than two decades with your partner, Josh. Yes, we're coming
up almost on thirty thirty years together, and like us,
you were wise enough to have a partner with a
little bit of seasoning on them. I think that there's
a little bit of age the same with us, which
(32:41):
is absolutely so wonderful and spicy. But what have you
learned about what it really really takes to grow together
through the ups and downs of life with your romantic partner?
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Oh, my gosh. And by the way, this is something
Chris and I, Oh, we talk about this all the time.
But for me with Josh, so yeah, it's like twenty
two plus years and he is just such a magical, incredible, creative,
loving human being. And I can say this because we
say this often like the times, like we have so
(33:19):
much love and adoration and respect for one another and
there's such deep rapport and support and like soul level recognition,
and then at so many times we want to we're
just like I can't stand you, you know, like it's
just like we drive each other absolutely, Baddy. Try working
together too, Yes, oh gosh, I say this to Chris too.
(33:40):
I say this to Chris. I'm like, if Josh and
I work together, So Josh is primarily an actor, writer, director,
so he's in the entertainment field, and I've got, you know,
my own Loneline empire. If him and I work together,
I would be in an orange jumpsuit because I would
have murdered this or man and be just away for it.
Because that's the level that we can get to. I'm
(34:03):
joking obviously, but some of the things that we've learned,
I will say, probably the most I've done every retreat
one could do, read every book one could read, because
I'm that person who loves to learn and tries to
to just be a better person. And doctor Harville Hendrix
and Helen le Kelly Mago therapy. Yes, yes, yes, our
(34:28):
butt continues to save our butts on the car rides
where I'm like, really did you just say that? Or whatever?
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Imma going to the script.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
We try and then sometimes one of us slips out,
and of course, like if it's Josh, I'm like, you're
not doing dialogue.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
As a dutiful husband, and Craigzy's husband, just give us,
like the thirty seconds of what you're talking about with
the script and the therapy, we just take us a
step back and.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Very silent.
Speaker 7 (34:56):
Yes, yes, so so so, just just engage in phill.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
It is I think one of the most potent and
powerful ways of facilitating love and conversation, certainly in with
your romantic partners, you know, kind of dialoguing and really
hearing what your partner is saying and then not responding
as much. So for me, a lot of it is
(35:21):
so closely rooted in that the whole idea too, of
nonviolence and agape love because you separate, you separate the
actions or the words from the individual so that you
can come back together whole.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yes, and so anyone can google learn about it. They're
still teaching Harville and Helen and I recommend everyone you know,
get a hold of their books, watch their videos. There's
a new documentary that's out. It's fabulous stuff, whether it's
romantic or otherwise. But I think Josh and I really,
for me, I have to always come back to celebrating
our differences. Yeah, we're very very different people because each
(35:55):
of us in their philosophical and kind of research clinical framework,
you know, we all have wounds that were formed very
early on that sort of determine our lens on the world,
and that in our romantic relationships are very often we're
almost magnetically attracted to the exact opposite of who's going
(36:15):
to push your buttons so that you can both heal together.
And so for Josh and I, we find that, for example,
one of my fears is being suffocated, so I love freedom.
I love freedom. I love freedom. And Joshi's fear, his
kind of core childhood wound, is being abandoned. So you
could just see when one person doesn't want to be suffocated,
and one person doesn't want to be abandoned. You have,
(36:38):
like a salomnpepper shaker of the exact things that will
drive it with our bonkers. So I think for us
celebrating the differences, coming back to tools that actually work.
I think also the courage to know I am not
the same person that I was twenty two plus years ago,
and neither is he. Being able to courageously sit and
(37:03):
talk and discover anew who this person is now, who
do they want to become? And can we continue to
grow together without holding one another back and honoring our
differences as we both evolve forward, And that's like an
ever growing dance. We certainly don't always get it right,
(37:26):
but what I'm proud of is that we keep coming
back to the core of we love each other. We
want to see each other happy, We're committed to each
other's health and well being, and we're committed to it
being messy and too working it through when things aren't
going well. And that's you know that can be often
(37:47):
in any human relationship where you have friction.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
And Chris, I know that Brian has been with you
throughout from your diagnosis to your healing. What has he
taught you about love partnership?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Well, you know, prior to Brian, I was always looking
for the guy who would leave me. Basically, so I
for me, my core woman is also abandonment. It's somebody
who met her father later in life. My father left
when I was conceived, and so I think I was
always looking for that daddy figure. And I remember as
(38:24):
a child thinking, well, if I am successful, maybe one
day he'll hear about me and he'll want to meet
me because I'll have value, right, And so I would,
and I also imagine what he might have been like.
I saw him as like this big warrior and you know,
he's a lot of bravado. I don't know where my
little childhood mind came up with all this stuff, maybe
(38:46):
like superhero type of stuff. And so I was always
looking for that big warrior, bravado guy who had a
lot of charisma and a lot of daddy troubles too, right.
And so it really wasn't until my dad diagnosis that
as I was healing other aspects of my life and
really kind of saying, okay, if you only have a
(39:07):
certain amount of time left, If that's the case, how
do you want to spend it that I think I
saw somebody like Brian.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
We knew each other and we had been in previous
relationships and we had been in our friend circles, but
I hadn't seen him as somebody who could be a
partner with me. And so Brian is a filmmaker. He
is an Emmy Award winning editor film editor. And when
I was making my film Crazy Sexy Cancer, one of
our mutual friends was like, maybe Brian can cut a
(39:37):
little trailer for you, because they knew that I wanted
to submit it to a little industry night to see
if so I could get representation. So he cut that
trailer for me, and he started to teach me a
whole lot about filmmaking because I had always been in
front of the camera, but right before my diagnosis, I
had moved to wanting to be behind the camera because
I wanted to basically call the shots. And we were
(39:58):
a little bit dam but not really. It was really
for me. It was about the focus of the film.
But as this four years went on, you know, making
the project together, you know, he became the partner that
I always I think deserved and hadn't didn't see because
I was so tracked in my own wounds. And so
(40:21):
we ended up leaving our careers and working together. And
I think that in and of itself becomes this practice
for relationship. As Marie has said, we have had many
conversations where we've coached each other through hot relationship moments.
And I'd say the biggest thing that I have learned
from him specifically is, and Marie loves when I say this,
(40:43):
so you will know exactly what I'm saying, Marie, is
the only time you can change somebody is when they're
in diapers.
Speaker 7 (40:50):
That's one of the best That's good, yes, is that at
the beginning of life and the end of life.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Or just the beginning of life, just obviously go back,
got it?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
And I've had to learn. I had to learn, like, Okay,
who is this person that I'm with that I can
like champion and love and love for who he is.
And and then if you want to change somebody, it's
because there's something in you that really is desiring to
be healed. And so for me, it was like, Okay,
I got the focus on the wrong place. What are
(41:23):
the wounds? What's the what are the booboos, what are
the hurt nooks and crannies of my being that need
that care? And then I think, I mean, I'm still
on this path. But the more work we put into
that area, I guess our relationships benefit too, because we
sort of like let the love flourish as opposed to,
(41:45):
you know, try to control and suffocate it and make
it look a certain way that it doesn't want to
be in the first place.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
That's amazing. And sometimes we say, particularly with the quote
you can only change one in diapers.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Now that a preach and that comes directly from a
preacher's KIDK.
Speaker 6 (42:08):
So there you go, preach, I can make a whole
sermon around it. I want to ask both of you
something about uh, particularly for our single listeners UH, because
certainly dating can be frustrating and challenging, and you know,
(42:32):
everybody has a checklist. What maybe what's one thing that
you were looking for in your twenties, but now it's
what you love most about your partner?
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Before you answer this, did you ever think in your
life that Martin Luther King would be asking you about
your dating checklist?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
No?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
No, I cannot wait for dinner tonight. I'll be like honey,
tell you about my day.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
So, just as a little context, Jersey girl Italian American
grew up on the Jersey shore, which really big hair,
lots of tanning beds, gold gym, muscles, guidos. I can
say that because I'm Italian American, So like probably on
my list in my early twenties was like a really
good tan and gold chains. And then as it got
(43:30):
to like a more mature age, someone like Josh who
is so willing to do the work. And when I
say the work, I mean the work of loving themselves
and another human being who is as flawed as I am,
who is as wild as I am, who has as
(43:52):
many different expressions as I am. So somebody who's willing
to not just you know, assume that they know it all,
but be willing to be curious and growing and learn.
So yeah, from from tans and kind of oiled up
big muscles and gold chains to the inner.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
You know, I don't even know if I knew what
I wanted. I was just sort of flailing all around,
you know, back then. But what I know now is
that I really am so grateful to have a partner
that I love talking to that is endlessly curious that
you know, can dive into any topic out there. Even
(44:32):
when we go out and we meet people and maybe
he doesn't know anything about the thing that they do,
he's endlessly fascinated by it and he wants to have
those really wonderful conversations. And I think, as my life
has continued, it's just so we it's so we're so
lucky when we can have deep conversations with the people
(44:53):
that we love.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
And I do want to take us back to where
we began, which is the just the deep and unwavering
friendship between the two of you. All part of that too,
showing up and being there for each other. Sometimes you
have to kind of stand in some hard truth or
one truth, and so I would like to ask each
(45:17):
of you what would be the one truth that you
have said to each other that you all really needed
to hear at that moment.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I can be very hard headed, I will say that,
and I sometimes I'm like, I need to open everything
as figure outable. Oh wow, I wrote that. Boy, do
I need a reminder? Here's what I want to say.
I will find the truth. But I just want to,
like with Chris, she's really the one person in the
world and I really think she is the only person
(45:49):
in the world who can say what may be to
perhaps my ego, you know, like a painful truth, and
to not have me want to like slapper one person,
because she will know how to kind of talk about intention,
to like kind of fill the space with love and
say hey, because I know she's standing for the essence
(46:14):
of me, the soul of me, the highest of me
that I can I know she's speaking never to hurt me,
but to help me rise up and to help me
ease my suffering. One of the things that I always
wrestle with, less so now than in my earlier years,
but is really like this ultra competitive comparison kind of
(46:36):
thing in my head that I'm not doing enough, that
oh I should be doing more. It's kind of this
addiction to productivity and achievement, and some of which can
be really beautiful and that can drive us, and then
for me, I've noticed it can go awry and it
can be a monster that can feel just terrible inside.
And any time that I've found myself in a space
(46:56):
like that where I'm torturing me and I'm still, you know,
no matter how hard I'm working or how much I'm producing,
it's still never enough. And let's say I'm comparing myself
to a colleague or somebody out there, She'll be the
one to be like, Okay, well this is what I
know about you, Marie, you are such a powerful manifestor
do you really want that? Do you want X, Y
or Z? Because I know you could get it and
(47:16):
we could write down, does that do you really want that?
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Life?
Speaker 1 (47:18):
And then when she does that to me, I'm now like,
its like it brings it all together. So she has
this way of taming my inner demons and my monsters,
and so the truth is really getting me back aligned
with how powerful of a creator that I am. And
the truth I usually need to hear is like I'm
(47:39):
doing exactly what I really want to do. It's this
thing and I'm pointing to my head for all of
our listeners. It's my mind that can often take me
off into these very tortuous places.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
So with me, I as much I will stand for
people and stand for people in my family especially, and
you know, my inner inner circle, I can also disappear
and vanish and hide and you know, become my own
little happy hermit cave dweller and Marie always knows when
it's gone too far, and she'll just you know, pull
(48:15):
me out of the cave, sometimes by my hair, but
always lovingly. But also there are those moments when I
actually don't know how to use my voice, and they
tend to be in similar situations, and literally she will
coach me and she'll give me the script to follow.
(48:36):
And you think that when you are grown up, you
don't need help with things like scripts and how to
talk to people, but I think oftentimes we actually do,
especially when they're conversations that are difficult and maybe scary,
And when I say scary, because they're tapping into something
an old wound or a place that still needs love
and care in ourselves. And so she's my script doctor.
Speaker 7 (49:00):
That's awesome, script doctor. What a great conversation. Thank you, guys.
This has just been absolutely remarkable.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
And just listening to the two of you, I gotta say,
I think this is one of my favorite episodes You've
ever had because of just the vulnerability, the rawness, the
holding each other accountable, the storytelling, and just clearly the
love between the two of you. It's just such a
beautiful model for friendship. Courage comes from pain, the places
(49:26):
we avoid hold our freedom. We cannot amputate any emotions
and expect to be whole. And of course, I think
my personal favorite only time we could change someone in diapers.
I think that one my wife is going to quote
to me a few times. The two of you have
brought such a beautiful friendship to share with us.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us. If
you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us on
at my Legacy Movement on social media and YouTube. New
episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday. At
its core, this podcast honors doctor King's vision of the
(50:10):
beloved community and the power of connection. A Legacy Plus
Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Suzanne
Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you get your podcasts on
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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