If Someone Else Did It (with Shaun Diston)

Is OJ Simpson actually innocent of murder? Langston and his guest Shaun Diston (Wrecked on TBS) take a stab at proving OJ might not be as guilty as he seems (still a terrible guy though).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I watched the video the other day and it was
pre election decision where he goes, uh, you know, I
try to stay out of politics. Oh J don't really
do politics. That ain't really my thing. But I will
say this, whoever is elected the president has to commit
to being the president. And we were like, I'm sitting

(00:23):
there like, oh, Jay, that's not the issue. At Neither
one of them is like I don't want the job.
You can't just be halfway in, halfway up. You have
been because being a running back. Let me tell you
about the Dallas count chips in your racists money stuff.

(00:57):
You can't tell me. Yep, there it is there, It
is there. It is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another
phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where
we died deep, deep into the world of black conspiracy
theories and we finally worked to prove that Clarence Thomas

(01:19):
put his pubs on every can of Coca cola. Anita
Hill was just the first person to notice the man
loved pubes on coke. The fact that she caught one
that was just on you, Anita. You shouldn't have been
looking down and coke. It's it's just facts. These are
the facts, ladies and gentlemen. I'm your host, Lenkston Kerman.

(01:43):
I'm happy to be here. As always, we have a
phenomenal show for you. My guest today, I'm so excited
that he's here. He's so funny. You guys know him
from his Patreon backslash Shawn Distant on Patreon. I'm giving
his name away before I've even introduced the men. He
also as an amazing, hilarious podcast that I love very much.
It's called We Have to Stop Talking to Him and

(02:06):
t on C B B. It's hilarious. It talks about
the Ninja Turtles. I'm a big fan. Give it up
for my guests, Mr Shawn This then everybody, Langston Langston Lanks.
I am so excited to be here. I am so
excited to talk about what we're gonna talk about because
you are. You were like, what do you want to

(02:26):
talk about on the podcast? And I was kind of like, man,
I'm trying to blank a little bit. And when you
sort of offered up this topic, I realized how much
this was a part of my life. I just I'm
so excited to talk about it. This is the energy
that I love because because your topic, I think, is
one that certainly people have uh. It's been in the lexicon,

(02:50):
the American uh conversation for a long time. But I
don't think people ever get tired of it. It's never
gonna get old. Trial of the century, Trial of the century,
they said, you said, and I want to make sure
that we get this right for our listeners, so everybody
feels comfortable and landed in all of this. But you said,

(03:11):
my mama told me, oh, j didn't kill those people. Now,
I do not want to attribute Bob to that because
I don't remember specifically what her take was. I do
remember everybody kind of being very happy and chill about it,

(03:34):
like no one was dead. I mean, I know, if
you remember, like I was in middle school at the time,
and like, you know, when the verdict came down, like
what you heard was true, there was a straight up
Pavlovian response that all white people were just like what
the and every was like it was like we finally

(03:55):
got away with one. Like even if you thought you
were like we can beat the city to every once
in a while, which was its own win, it was
a very same I think, And it's a yes, you're
making some wonderful points that I totally agree with. One
of the things that always or has bugged me about
some of the portrayals and like the documentary and like

(04:17):
the television show is that it's a bunch of black
people being like, yes, finally go o JC. And that
wasn't as much the vibe at least in my house
where it was like I ain't shine on. It was
like it was like, okay, it wasn't really celebrating like
I think they definitely and remind I'm reminding you like

(04:38):
we were in middle school, so everyone was really dumb
and we were like little kids responding to like we
didn't even really know how to respond, you know. But
I don't remember adults being like I don't remember my dad.
He could be up from school and be like, yo,
got away, but like a big day ice cream or
some ship. It wasn't like that at all. But it

(04:59):
was a year time and I don't remember my family
ever really wanting to say he did it, but I
can't really even remember because the O J trial, specifically
for me, was more intent. Like first of all, you know,
I was in middle school. You just had like was
something you followed when you were a kid. But then

(05:21):
in high school, I went to this magnet high school
in Florida called Coral Reef Senior High School. It's a
very strange, stupid name, um, but every other high school
named themselves after like a famous person. We were like Reef.
I guess, like we don't have to like ask anyone
for permission, um. But it was a magnet school. So

(05:44):
I went into criminal justice the Magnet and because of that,
like I had a couple of electives that were basically
just like training you to be either a cop or
a lawyer. But in the first couple of years you
just took these general classes. And in one of the classes,
one of the assignments was we watched the entire O

(06:05):
J trial. Wow, over a series of months, we watched
that had to take a long time, long time, and
we watched I think we might have skipped some parts
of it, but we watched like months worth of this
trial and did different assignments on every part about it
and just talked about procedure and talked about all this ship.

(06:25):
But like we were also like watching it like it
was a TV show in class, and we were like
taking sides and like some of us started to be like, Yo,
Johnny Cocher is right, like I, where do I stand
on this conspiracy? That? That was the question that I
was building. Where do I love that? You're You're getting
right to it. Where do you stand now? How are

(06:47):
you feeling about O J's innocence in relation to specifically murder.
There's a complicated answer to that. Do I believe he
should have been uh not guilty after that trial? Yes?
I absolutely agree with the outcome of the trial. If
you watch it, you kind of are seeing lawyers pick

(07:08):
apart a prosecution in a way they weren't ready for.
You see the ineptitude of the L A p. D.
Is he innocent? I do not think so. I think
he is a part of it. And I think the
biggest conspiracy that I do believe is and I even
put up the zoom background here for I think Jason

(07:30):
did it. Jason Simpson's sun from his first marriage. And
when you dig into that conspiracy and then you and
then having also watched the trial and seeing how like,
if O J walked into this house and killed two people,
the physical evidence should be overwhelming. Yeah, but they could

(07:53):
barely prove it, and they had some very circumstantial evidence,
and it really clouds the j angle. But then when
you hear some of the like really outstanding circumstantial evidence
for Jason, You're just like, give me more physical evidence.
I want them to test against, Like I want all
of it, you know. I will say that the Jason

(08:14):
Simpson journey of it All, or or theory of it all,
is one that like when I first heard it, I
was like, I don't know, this just seems like somebody reaching.
And then you really unpack everything that they have on Jason,
or at least potentially on Jason, and if nothing else
to your point, it makes you have to go, Okay,
well we don't know for sure that o J did this.

(08:37):
And let me just say this too, because I've I've
done a lot of like, you know, I'm like a
comedy performer, so I've done like a lot of o J.
I've done a lot of like playing around in this
space comedically, and I want to just say, like I
even stopped doing the character after a while because I
was like, man, two people were murdered here. This is
kind of fun up to be dancing around and like
being o J and having fun with it. But so

(09:00):
just even just disclaimer, like it was a horrific crime,
and I do think that, like it is a shame
that it is not solved and there isn't justice for
the Goldman family and the Brown family. Like yeah, there's
some fucked up ship there. But ultimately, I think Jason
probably did it. I think O J probably try to

(09:23):
help him cover it up. Hence the drops in the bronco.
It's the tiny bits of evidence that you can tie
O J two and some of his peculiar behavior, including
the bronco with a C with with you know. Yeah,
so I don't know. That's where I'm sort of landed
on it, and I'm like, that doesn't make him not guilty.

(09:44):
You know, well, number one, you got to a very
important thing that this was. In fact, it's not. It
ain't that funny, but it's still a comedy podcast. And
so we'll figure out a way to make this a okay.
But I will say that I don't know if you've
ever had the pleasure, And I used that in a

(10:05):
very loose way because I similarly thought like for a while,
like I'll have some fun in this kind of thing.
But I my wife and I listened to uh if
I did It. We we like downloaded the audio book
of If I Did It, the O j Uh Semi Confessional,
and one of the things I thought, this is gonna

(10:26):
be hilarious. This is just gonna be a dumb man
making a bunch of missteps as a writer. But the
thing that I didn't realize is that because the family
only won a civil case and lost the criminal case,
they were never actually really paid. Right O j claimed broke.
He couldn't pay them for basically what he was, you know,

(10:46):
oh what he was meant to owe them in court,
And the only way that they could actually get the
money back was to buy the rights or or basically
retained the rights of the book. And with that, there's
a one our prelude when you listen to the book
of just like Ron Goldman's sister basically crying on the

(11:07):
microphone saying how this book not only has ruined their
life in that it's the only way that they can
collect money, but then number two, everybody shames them for
having the rights to the book and basically trying to
make money off the death of their son. That is
so crazy, that is I mean, look, that is so sad,

(11:32):
and you know, I think it's funny though, to be
cursed by like this book that is selling like and
it's like, I don't I didn't listen to the book,
but from what I can gather or from what I've heard,
he like describes a whole night that like where it happens.
Then he's like, this is what would have happened or whatever,

(11:54):
And doesn't he do like a TV interview where he
also talks a lot about it. He does. He at
a an interview with Solidad O'Brien where he basically sat
down with her and and did a live reading. It's
not a reading, but a live sort of like acting
out of the book and in it, he basically creates

(12:16):
this character named Charlie Barley right, who he claims is
this person who he doesn't know very well and he
doesn't have much of a relationship with. He doesn't know
anything about Charlie, but Charlie is the one that basically
commits the crime, and o J is sort of his assistant,
if you will, throughout this process, I mean, look, that's
more to me. That is more evidence of this Jason

(12:40):
like it could because I honestly believe that the only
person that O J. Would cover for or would like
act that way after the trial is either himself or
a close family member, like it would just have to be.
He has proven himself in every facet of his life
to be a complete, like megalomaniac type person. But he's

(13:05):
not necessarily somebody that we're seeing being shitty to his kids,
at least in a direct way other than allowing his
ex wife to get murdered and leave them without a mother.
But here's the thing we should all like, because I
don't know if people know that Jason evidence, like, we
should go through and we're gonna unpack. Okay, we're gonna
get there. We're gonna get into the research. Let's stay

(13:27):
in the emotional truth theater. We'll get into Jason. Jason
is not going missed, Okay, Okay, Well then look and
then the other parts of it that are I think
almost not disputed at this point is the conspiracy of
the l a p D. Like, regardless of OJ's guilt

(13:48):
on the murder, you know, regardless of his involvement, the
l a p D did some very shady ship. I've
been watching. Uh, I don't know if you want watch
it at all. I watched a ship ton of unsolved
mysteries and uh it's you know Netflix. Yeah, there's brand
new ones out there. Second season on Netflix, and almost

(14:11):
every single episode the major thing that you walk away
with is the police are bad at their jobs. Sometimes
they're bad at their jobs because they're racist. Sometimes they're
bad at their jobs because they don't do good detective work.
Sometimes they're bad at their job because they do great
detective work and then just lose evidence. But it's interesting

(14:32):
because it kind of sounds like we should just maybe
defund the I don't know, like, why are we giving
I don't know. I don't know, John, it sounds like
you're taking things too far. I don't want to tell you.
I don't want to. That's out about what could we
possibly do without the police they've kept the money and

(14:54):
not give to the police. It's always a fascinating journey
when you start to look at the work that the
police are doing that basically is working against whatever they're
trying to prove. And I think to your point, the
O j A trial is a perfect example of that.
A police just not only being like fumbly idiots, but

(15:14):
also intentionally violent against, you know, the person that they're
essentially trying to prove guilty. I am from Miami, Florida,
so like I have been around cops, Like you know,
they show cops, remember that, Like they would shoot tons
of episodes in like neighborhoods that I was just hanging

(15:35):
out in. Like it was a very heavy cop and
you got sucked with by the cops all the time,
and you start to realize that, like they're driven by numbers,
which is a really fucked up thing, but like they
want to close cases, they want to put people in jail,
like it is to their benefit to make someone guilty.

(15:56):
So they'll plant drugs on somebody. They'll do and in
their and they're not doing it to an innocent person, right,
Like I think they think O. J did it, but
they were like, we got to actually make this a
slam dunk. And I think that's the violence, right, is
that like the reality of our system isn't there. They
they're unable to remove their own bias from this, and

(16:18):
so like ultimately, you're just asking a bunch of people
who have a very hard form of opinion about a
person or about a crime to like be neutral on
some ship and they can't. Peoplefuckers aren't skilled in that way,
and then not to mention the ferment, the mark ferment
of it all in this trial. Like I think if
people don't know about this trial, I do think watching

(16:40):
that show, the People versus O. J. Simpson does a
really good job of at least laying out a lot
of the evidence that is true that you'd be like,
I do not think that that could be true, Like
the fact that he had these tapes where he was
talking about framing black people, like it it's so oh crazy,

(17:01):
Like but even crazier is a police department who then
still puts this person on the biggest case of the century.
It's insane, Like there's there's got to be a level
of accountability on their end where they're like, a, he's racist,
but we're not gonna put it, We're not gonna put
him in charge. But there's a murder of a white

(17:22):
woman send old racist Mark Bourbon. I mean he must
have been like closest in the area, Like who knows
what it was, but like to me, the deadlock on oh,
it must have been O. J. By whether it is
racist or whether it is just them looking at what

(17:42):
the least common denominator is like what the easiest answer is, Oh,
she has an abusive husband. He is there, Oh he's
like he was in Chicago. Like what is all this behavior?
Like very easy to be like, Yo, o J did it?
Why are we putting any effort into anyone else? And
I think you're also tapping into a really important point

(18:04):
here that that is worth noting for our listeners is
that I don't think and I'm certainly not hearing it
on your end, neither of us is defending the quality
of o J as a human being. I don't think
that like trash like part of the bad man. What's
really fucked up is so again, I'm from Miami, and

(18:25):
directly after the trial, his family lived in Miami, like
they lived in the area, and his kids were notorious,
notorious little bad kids like not like Jason might have
been older and like wasn't a part of it, but
like the kids who were like in the private schools
and ship like they were probably like the rumors were

(18:46):
they were like selling illegal cable boxes and they were
like selling drugs because they didn't have money because like
their dad was broke, you know, like out of evil
ship going on, and then like you know, O J.
Had that really fucked up incident where he like assaulted
the guy in a car in Miami and pulled his
glass off, Like I think o J. And to that end,

(19:09):
like when you watch documentaries about him, you're like, yes,
I do think he probably had ct E, has c
t E, and probably like has rage issues and probably
is abusive. And maybe that's where Jason learned it, you
know what I mean, And that this isn't this is
a at best, this is a learned behavior that he

(19:33):
adopted from a very mean man with a very unhealthy
relationship with his ex wife. He's probably seen his o J.
Simpson be fucked up with multiple women throughout his childhood.
He has his own like mental ship that he's dealing with.
I do think that, like o J is guilty of

(19:53):
this murder. Did he commit the murder? I don't quite know,
And I'm I leaned towards no. Yeah, one of the
things I remember as a kid, And maybe you remember
this and you were you were in Florida, so it
probably was like much more of a conversation for you all.
But like immediately after the trial was like one of

(20:16):
the first videos they showed of o J was him
like golfing in Florida, and they had he had like
a new young white girl that he was like dating
who looked a lot like Nicole, And the news was
making all kinds of big deals about it. And I
remember specifically that the people, the women, especially in my life,
that was the point where they were like, na, that

(20:36):
motherfucker did it. I will say that there is an
element in the black community of like, that's what happens
to your data white Like I think there was a
bit of that where it was like he's gonna that
is not a healthy dynamic, Like no, it's interesting because
like I don't know, like I don't want to say

(20:58):
that like that has any thing to do with it,
but like he has this strange ownership issue. He had
this weird like o J wanted to be white. Like
he was a person who was like I don't want
to talk about race, I don't want to talk about politics.
So like there's a strange there's a weirdness there and

(21:18):
and and like a weird self hate there. And I think,
if I may, I think part of it is not
just wanting to be white, but wanting to be powerful
out in the world and equating whiteness with power. So
for him, it's like what is the most powerful person
a white man? I will elevate myself to whatever that is.

(21:40):
He should have just he should have just sent me
so sid. He should have just like skin, get some
blue contact, have just lightened his skin. I don't know
why you have to go through all this bullshit. I
would love that if O. J would have lightened his skin,
and then we would have not been talking about it
would have been fine. He would like he probably didn't

(22:02):
do it, Like he still would have loved if he
lightened his skin and still tried to steal his memorabilia back.
I want I want him to still go to jail.
Is another thing, another conspiracy. That is another conspiracy, because
there is the conspiracy that that was a setup to
put him in jail, because he should be in jail,

(22:23):
like it was like a retaliation for what he did,
and there was like it was almost like a sting
operation to just like get him arrested. So right that
justice was justice quote unquote was not originally served. But
we'll get him for this much more minor crime and
turn it into what ultimately looked like a murder. Level

(22:47):
of prisons and punishment like it was crazy, but yeah,
he's the chapters in this man's life. There's so many,
like even just talking about like the Miami years, Like
there's the Miami years before and after the civil trial,
like there's a whole there is like this before the
civil trial where like o J was like I'm he

(23:09):
was like the came he was like the king of Miami.
Like it was very funny when he showed up, because
it was just like, yeah, o J the most famous
person in the world because I got off with this
murder and I'm now going to join a golf club.
I've I've long said this and and it's it's problematic
at best, but o J is by far the funniest

(23:30):
murderer of all time. If you watch his Twitter right now,
Like I don't know if he knows how funny it is,
but that's yeah, I think he has no clue, which
is what makes it so wild his Twitter. His Twitter
is just like al right, well, now I want to
talk about what's going on with the Dallas Cowboys now

(23:53):
as a football player, like he would just talk for
like four minutes about one specific is alright, now, o
J fans, now this election is really crazy, but we
have to come together, all right now, o J Allen,
It's like, what the funk are you doing? Oh, we're
gonna take a break. We'll be back with more Shawn
this than then more, my mama told me. And we

(24:24):
are back. How is my man supposed to sch meet
his meat with this ship? Bro? What the fuck? Yeah?
We're back here with more Shawn this, then more, my
mama told me. We're still talking about o J. If
he did it, why he did it, and who else
might have done it in this terrible, terrible murder of

(24:46):
Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. This will be a
fun way into the research. But one of the we
were talking about how silly o J is and one
of the things that he talks about it and if
I did it is how much of a karate expert
Ron Goldman is? Yeah, I don't know, he says. Ron
Goldman immediately goes into karate fighting, and uh, it was.

(25:08):
It was. It's funny to hilarious. I've read somewhere that
he was a second degree black belt, third degree third
degree and he like did try. There are bruise marks
and stuff like, there is evidence of him fighting back
so it's interesting that O J would add that detail.
He's like and then he jumped into Jim Coado where

(25:28):
he was he did a backup. I love that o J.
O J, despite the brain damage, is still very familiar
with the different karate styles. He was doing cheap kudo,
which was something that my sense i said, I'm not
properly trained to fight against that, and so O J

(25:49):
was nervous. Uh. So let's jump into some of this research.
You brought it up earlier, and I think it it
is the most sort of like outstanding put sentual other
story that might exist for who murdered Nicole Brown, Simpson
and Ron Goldman, but Jason Simpson, aged twenty four at

(26:09):
the time, is the prime other suspect that was never
actually looked into for the murder trial. Tell me what
you know. So I know a bit about this just
from internet research, Like there isn't much out there other
than that there's a book written by this guy that
I've not read, and it is like O J. Simpson

(26:31):
is innocent and I can prove it or something like Yeah,
William C. Dear Uh is this guy who basically writes
an entire book basically saying that o J is innocent
and I can prove it where he explores all the
reasoning and logic for Jason being the actual murder. But
I do again think that that is a flawed title
because he says o J is innocent. I don't think

(26:52):
that's like. I do think he is probably an accessory.
He's probably at the very least was on the at
the crime scene. So yeah, stuff I know about Jason.
I know that he had a diagnosed rage disorder, that's right,
And it was something that I guess has been described
colloquially as Dr Jekyll or Jekyll and Hyde disorder or something.

(27:16):
That's right. So it's called intermittent rage disorder, which I
had never heard of, and yes, colloquially it's Jekyll and
Hyde syndrome UM. And he was given a drug called
d pat Cote to control his rage and seizures. Apparently
it's so intense that he can go into seizures from

(27:36):
it UM and that drug that he was taking he
stopped taking two months before the murders took place. So
also in that two month period, he was on probation
or something for threatening his boss with a knife. And
now he was a chef, so he was a chef
proficient in knives. He had a knives set, and he

(28:00):
threatened his boss with a knife in the past. He
stabbed himself in front of his girlfriend in an episode
he threatened another person like. He has multiple verified on
the record instances where he threatened people with knives. Yes,
and not only threatened his girlfriend, he nearly killed her
with it, like, was fully attempting to stab her to

(28:22):
death with a knife and seriously injured other people with
knives in the past. So he is not unfamiliar with knives,
and even more so, a former roommate or a classmate
rather of Jason said that he was actually trained in
hand to hand combat as well as field knife training
when he attended the Army and Navy Academy. So this

(28:45):
is a motherfucker that knows. I mean, it's crazy. That's
what's so crazy about the incompetence here is that, like,
if any of this is true, which you know, I've
only done internet research, so it's like one am I
verifying really just seems like it's rated a bunch, and
it's in this book. The fact that the police didn't
even like do a cursory investigation, the fact that we

(29:07):
don't all know this person's name as a suspect before.
It's it's insane. The other thing, the other things you
find out are there was a hat found at the scene, yes,
with blood and hair I believe hair from a dog
as well. And oh J didn't wear hats, But there's

(29:29):
a picture of Jason Simpson with a black hat of
the same style with a dog on his bed. Yeah.
Not only is it that they find the hat, but
they find hair in the hat that yes, belongs to
a dog, but then also belongs to someone who isn't
o J. Yeah, and they there are multiple pictures, not

(29:52):
just one but I know the exact one you're referring to,
But there are multiple pictures of Jason Simpson wearing a
similar style, had a bunch of different colors right hanging
out in the hat like an indoor settings. This motherfucker
loved that. So it's crazy. And another part of it
is like I think that like they found tons of fingerprints,

(30:15):
they found tons of physical evidence that did not match
O J. Sucking the DNA under Nicole's fingernails did not
match O J. I believe we ultimately were like, oh
it was forensic mistakes or whatever. I think, like that's
they end up saying in a bunch of stuff. But
it's like it just didn't match, and it could very

(30:37):
well have been you know, Jason's. It very well could
have been his Bruno, Molly's very well could have been
his very welcome been all of it, Yes, And to
your point, the charlie of it all the the charlie
that O J. Refers to in his book and in
the interview is often a tree did or rather connected

(31:01):
to be him protecting his son by giving him a
sort of like pseudonym instead of just calling him. I
didn't really know the guy, I raised him for a
couple of years, but my favorite. But so it's also like,
so he was from a previous marriage, and there are

(31:22):
rumors that he had this weird relationship with Nicole that
was like a weird obsessive relationship. And apparently on the
night he was supposed to come to the restaurant he
worked at, but ended up not going to that restaurant
and going to a different one, I guess the one
that yes, so Nicole was was apparently and some allegedly

(31:45):
scheduled to come and eat at the restaurant where where
Jason was working. Despite having threatened his boss with a knife,
he was still working at that restaurant or at least
a restaurant, and she didn't show up. She went to
the restaurant or where on Goldman was working, and thus Jason,
in theory, went into a fit of rage that drove

(32:07):
him to go to her house. And so part of
the the argument that people have about the fact that
Jason might be the killer is that the murders took
place between nine pm and ten oh five pm, and
after nine fifty pm. Jason has no alibi that can
support where he was during the period of the killing.

(32:29):
Apparently Lydon said he was with his girlfriend, but he
had to change that story. And he had a time
card at the job he worked at that was like automated,
but that night he wrote in the time kind of yeah,
the time clock is working. Everybody else punches in their
time uh, you know, through the machine, but Jason hand

(32:52):
writes his uh. And he also puts a little note
where he's like, I'm about to go kill a bit
and he was like and and specifically my that like
it is all this evidence. And then there was apparently
some other evidence that like there was a knife that
they found in a locker that like actually matched better

(33:12):
with the knives that they tried to say O j used.
But I'm I feel like if they found that knife,
we this dude would be in jail. So I don't
know if I believe that one. And Okay, I'm glad
you're saying this, because this is the hard part about
all of this evidence is that it's mostly coming from
a one dude in his book, um, and it kind
of makes it this complicated thing of how legitimate we

(33:35):
can we can believe this person to be. And so
then yes, to your point, they find a knife in
a locker in a basically like a storage locker that
Jason had that not only matches the description and size
of the knife that was apparently used on the colon Ron,
but on top of that has a number of like

(33:56):
dent marks and sort of scratches on it that seems
similar or to the dnt marks that were put on
the Colt's head when he was using it, like the
blunt side of the knife to like hit her. That's insane,
but again it's one if they had it's a dude
who's trying to sell a book. So it's like hard
for me. I mean, he's not the only one to

(34:16):
come out with this theory, and I know that, Like
there are other pieces of evidence that I do feel
like you could probably verify. Like I know that there's
a lot of evidence that like o J immediately hired
a lawyer for his son after YEA, so he hires
like literally the next day, high o J hires a
pretty famous criminal attorney, Carl Jones, to represent Jason, even

(34:39):
though his son was never a suspect in the crime.
Ie that the l A p D was never Like, Hey,
that's weird. We don't have to talk to him. But
but to me, it's like if they if this guy
is gonna put that in the book, I feel like
this lawyer would immediately dispeat that if that weren't true,
you know what I mean, Like there are parts of
it where you're like, Okay, he's making some claims that

(35:00):
are pretty large. Also another really interesting piece, Like so
I put up this zoom background and I'm I've been
sort of obsessed with the moment my entire life. Yeah,
that reading of the verdict. I used to have this
podcast back in New York that I used to do it.

(35:21):
I used to weirdly just like play part of it,
like as a drop, like now we're being a little
more clear about why you felt bad. You are being
a real sick oh about it? Well, not honestly, not
even the not guilty part. I just love the like
whole the tension that is built in that woman's voice

(35:41):
when she starts saying everything and then a little stumble
that she has those are my favorite. She mispronounces orienthal
and that that's kind of fun And this is a
big moment for her, and she's she's she's just trying
to show up. But I think that that moment is

(36:01):
especially because of the phenomenon of this whole thing being
on camera. I think it's one of the most interesting
pieces of video of all time because you get O
J's reaction, which is so puzzling because you you don't
know what his headspace is. You really don't know if
he did it or not. At the time, he almost

(36:23):
seems like he doesn't understand what they said. I it's
so puzzling, Like he has the most puzzling reaction and
then his little smile comes out like it's fascinating. Then
they cut too. Oh. But even in that same shot,
you see Cochrane a person being like I just won

(36:45):
the most unwinnable Kate, like I cannot believe I won that.
You're watching a person who is like Cochrane is like
Jordan's like fever Game, like he's like he's like feeling
like the rush of energy of I didn't really have
much at stake here other than the biggest win of
my life. And he was like, And then you kind

(37:05):
of are also seeing Darden and Marshall Clark's disappointment. Then
you start going into the gallery where you see Goldman
family just like Catas like really really and it's really
it's just such an interesting study of reactions, this whole thing.
But then you go to the Simpson family and his
daughters are weeping and his son has the strangest reaction,

(37:31):
like he does He's like mad stone face. It is
so strange. He doesn't give anything for a while. He
just kind of sits there while everyone around him is
either weeping in joy or celebrating each other. He just
kind of sits there as they reach around him to

(37:52):
high five each other, and it is so bustling. And
then you know the Goldman family is just audibly. They're
now the loudest thing in the courtroom. And then you
cut to him again and his hands are in his
He's now just completely crying, and in the context of

(38:12):
everything we know or think, it just seems like a
person who's like, Wow, I put my family through so
much shit. I am the one who should really be
up there. I feel guilty about this. I it's if you,
if you can watch this reaction, it is I don't

(38:33):
know what to make of it. It's it's not uh,
it's not what I would have suspected my reaction would
have been. It's not relief a person with yes it
the relief doesn't seem to exist, and the only real
outward reaction seems to come more at the cries from

(38:53):
the family, the other family even more than his own family,
and salvation and whatever whatever or whatever. I can't so
I not only is this a crazy conspiracy, but just
from a story perspective, it is so fascinating because it's
this shitty person covering for his maybe unwell sun h.

(39:20):
But in a way O J is like, I didn't
do it, so I should get off. And that's like
the part of O Ja's reaction is that he's expecting
to get up like, I don't know. It's such a
complicated video that it's so good. Yeah, and it's It's
also one of those things where it's like, even if
O J didn't do it, that the type of smile

(39:40):
that you see out of him feels almost too celebratory.
Very way, it's all very weird. There's a few more
pieces of evidence that I'd love to dig into. One
of the things that they point to along with his
his disorder is that in terms of his mental health
at least, is that Jason apparently abused alcohol, ecstasy, and

(40:04):
cocaine beginning at the age of fourteen, and police reports
indicate that he was arrested at least four times, including
a d u I, driving with a suspended license, and
assault with a deadly weapon, while medical records reveal at
least three suicide attempts. They were side to your point,
this wasn't necessarily a person in their their most healthy

(40:27):
mental state from the beginning of all of this going
through a medication change, which which is maybe something that
could be verifiable as well, but it all is so
once the story plays out in the way that if
justice were served. Ultimately, this person is in a facility

(40:48):
that is trying to help him, you know, and likes
not this completely fucked up monster, Like his life is
completely sucked up and well maybe it should have been
because he was a piece of ship, but like they
had divorced and they weren't together, you know, And I
don't think there have there's been any other God, I

(41:12):
don't even know, but I think the fascinating alternate reality.
I think the the the justice that would have been
that should have been deserved, should have come along the
times where he was being a domestic abuser, where he
was like being a scumbag, and all over the ways
that he was a scumbag, and not necessarily for the
thing that ultimately we know him best for, which is murder.

(41:35):
Well that is also the big part of it is
the celebrity of this is a huge piece to the
story because he had this weird privilege in l a
that like a lot of people didn't, And it's just
funny that that magnet of celebrity also was what made
them want to pin it on him, and also is

(41:55):
the thing that probably shaded any investigation into his son,
Like if this was just some any dude off the
street the sun would have been the prime suspect. Yeah,
you check all the pieces, but instead it's o J.
And we've decided it's gonna be o J. And therefore
we are only going to investigate ways to make O
J the prime suspect. Okay, here's the last piece of

(42:18):
evidence that I'll throw at you that I thought was.
I had never heard this, but I think is hugely fascinating.
Apparently Jason used to write these uh notes, these little
like diary notes to himself that he titled Dear Jason,
and in it, UH, there's all kinds of mentions of

(42:40):
like his rage and sort of like uh. At certain points,
he writes about being three people, and handwriting experts have
basically connected this back to Jason Simpson, although it's not
necessarily definitive that Jason Simpson was the one that wrote this,
but in it, one of the most important sections, he says,

(43:01):
It's the year of the knife for me. I cut
away my problems with a knife. Anybody touches my friends,
I will kill them. I'm also tired of being Dr
Jekyl and bist hide. Yeah, I mean that is so crazy.
I mean, I am very very saddened by then. And

(43:23):
also one of the things I heard is that like
he's nowhere to be found now, like people don't know
where he is. Yeah, he like, uh, there are some
account I kept trying to figure it out, and there
are some accounts that say he's like living a quote
unquote quiet life in Atlanta, still working at like restaurants.
But I don't know how verifiable that is. I think

(43:45):
most people are kind of like, yeah, he just disappeared
and nobody really knows what where Jason Simpson. If he
changed his name, he's going by Charlie now. He's like
just I know, I would love it if this family
is so dumb that they just collectively are like, all right,

(44:06):
what if O J writing a book? You Charlie? Now, well,
I guess I'm Charlie. I mean, look, here's the thing
that is because the worst part about all of this,
and I think the underlying conspiracy theory that like I
will always believe and like I feel like my family
is always going to believe, is that like the cops

(44:28):
are dirty as fun, Like they're dirty and bad, like
and they let me stop you right there. That's how
they get you get that ultimately is the the entire
point of all of this. O. J. Simpson very well
could be the murderer that we suspect he was, but

(44:49):
the cops did such a poor job in this process
that you could not definitively prove he's a murderer, and therefore,
unfortunately is should be allow to go free after this trial.
I am a person who I used to love conspiracy theories,
like I would be talking to you about any bullshit,

(45:10):
like any bad one, any good one, Like I really
do like conspiracies, but as I've gotten older, I've seen
that like they can be somewhat harmful and some of
them are kind of dumb. But the one that I
will always believe, I will always just be like, yes, yes,
is any conspiracy involving the police? And that I've always

(45:32):
I've been. I was a huge fan of this really
downer person. I will say, the whole story is a
very much downer, but he was an incredible human. This
guy Michael Rupert. Have you ever heard of him? Michael Ruper.
If you're a conspiracy podcast guy, you gotta know about
Michael Ruper. He was the cop who basically exposed the

(45:55):
CIA for approaching him to sell drugs and inner and
he's in Los Angeles. There's videos of him. There's videos
of him like confronting members of the CIA and open hearings.
He he has this incredible story. Like if you guys
want to watch an incredible YouTube video, look at Michael Rupert.
C I A. UM, he's like a young cop being

(46:18):
like I was approached by blank blank blank. I have
these clearances because he's like naming names and he's he
doesn't I don't know if he names them there, but
he's like, please contact me. We need to talk about this.
The guys like, let's talk about it. He exposed the
police in selling drugs and the CIA around contract like
all of that ship is Michael. Like go to Michael
Rupert and look up that old ship. And in his

(46:40):
later years, because of his like sort of whistleblower attitude,
he sort of had to move around the world a
bunch because he started exposing. He's a big person that
talked about like peak oil. He's talked about like the
collapse of the banks. He he kind of predicted two
thousand and eight before it happened. It's a documentary called
Collapse where he basically sits in a chair. It's a

(47:00):
documentary of the Manson's in a chair chain smoke cigarettes
and talks about how peak oil is gonna suck us up.
And it is really really good. But because of the
CIA thing, and I remember learning this a long time ago,
especially after that cares one fucking uh well whatever, there's
a whole song about with cares One where they're talking
about the c I as selling drugs in the inner city.

(47:22):
It's like, what is Yeah, when you look it up,
it's this guy. So anything about the police, I'm just like,
I absolutely believe it. Yeah, I think, I think exactly
that's exactly right. There so much evidence and so much
history of the police intentionally doing funk ship to black, brown,
impoverished people, and sometimes just because that's part of what

(47:43):
they're trained to do. It isn't even just like a
personal vindetta. It's like this is like part of the
system that we were built on. Yeah, it's fascinating, and
I think like from hearing that when I was young
and hearing ship now like yeah, all the police unions
are run by the mob and all this, you know,
it's all this, it's all a criminal organization and all
this ship. I will believe any police conspiracy because they

(48:07):
all end up being cutting true. Like, yeah, I think
we can both agree for the police. Damn, I guess
that is what I'm saying. All Right, We're gonna take
one more break. We'll be back with more Shawn Diston
and more, my mama told me. And we are back.

(48:40):
We're not gonna let Joe Biden and Kamala Harris cut
America's meet. That's all that. Yeah, we're back here more
of my mama told me. We're still talking about this
conspiracy that Jason Simpson is in fact a real murderer

(49:01):
and the police are the real pieces of this ship
in this whole uh scenario. I have a fun game
that I would love to play with you right now.
This game, it's a brand new game that I'm calling
if they did it with us, don't you know where us?
We'll kill you. We'll kill you if they did it

(49:27):
is the name of this game, and it's a very
simple game. All I'm gonna do is introduced to you
a few uh alternative theories, theories that I had never
heard before in my life about what potentially could have
happened uh during this murder and what I would love
for you to do is just unpack them. You're a
man who loves, or at least used to love conspiracy

(49:48):
theories when you were more irresponsible, So just unpack them.
Let's let's hear your thoughts on some of these conspiracy theories.
Great my first one and this one, uh is very
interesting to me on a number of levels. But one
of the things that they point to is that apparently

(50:09):
Nicole Brown Simpson had a drug problem, that she was
in some ways in debt to a number of drug dealers,
and that the murder of her and Ron Goldman was
a hit for money that she owed on her. I
guess cocaine purchase of this, I don't know. Now, this

(50:32):
is a very common This was a theory that was
up and around when the trial was going on, like
it was a drug thing. It was a drug thing.
And I feel like that is kind of one of
those theories that gets thrown around, like after a lot
of murder, Like I even feel like after the Manson murders,
people like this was a drug thing. Like, actually, if
you go in I think it was too sloppy to

(50:55):
be a drug hit. Why are you going in there
with one knife are you going in there? Like I
just feel like that's too sloppy. Yeah, I agree, there's
something weird about like if this is in fact, like
this major cartel, like trying to seek vengeance, you don't
send one dude who can get beat up by a
man named Ron Gold. I don't think so. And I

(51:18):
also think like the part of I think what gave
that conspiracy some credence I think, at least in Florida
was that there were rumors that the kids were now
selling drugs after the trial, Like so it was just
like we're drugs always a part of the picture. I
don't know. To me, it feels like you go on there,

(51:38):
you you have a gun or something, and why what
what are they selling drugs? How much money could they owe?
I think another weird fun up thing that I remember
hearing was like somebody like a Colombian neck tie where
they're like that's where you like slit the throat and pull.
It's like that that is not happening in Brentwood, man,
Like that is so risky and stupid. So I do
not think it was a drug thing. They're not sending

(52:01):
a message to all these people with three pools yeah,
next to know what's up your next burden? It's like,
I don't think that's that's the energy that the cartel
is showing up with. Here's a sillier I don't know
if sillier is the right word, but certainly a more
absurd one. There's a theory that o J hired a

(52:23):
serial killer to murder his ex wife and Ron Goldman.
A man named Glenn Rogers, who basically claims to have
killed seventy women, including Nicole Brown Simpson, is apparently hired
by o J and uh is in fact the murderer,
and it's even verified. The brother of Glenn Rodgers basically

(52:46):
claims he genuinely believes that his brother was in fact
the person who did the murders. Interest he had never
heard that. I had maybe heard that like it looked
like it could have been a serial killer the murderer,
you know, like there was this sadistic nous to it,
which I think you attribute to either someone you know,
like a passion passion crime or a serial killer. UM.

(53:08):
I think there was also some theory going around when
I was younger that like o J tried to make
it look like it was a serial killer or something,
So it's interesting that there's an actual person that they've
attributed it to. I would say that is not a
terrible idea for like, like not not to say that
we should do that, but like if you were like

(53:29):
writing a movie like that, I love I love that
you were sitting there, like honestly, because like if it's
just like a movie, right, you could be like it's
the perfect crime because ultimately, if you get caught, which
you want to get caught as a serial killer, like
you'll just be like it was a random killing. You know,

(53:50):
you find do you hunt down a serial killer only
to him kill someone in your life? That's not a
bad idea. Like that's the part that I think bumped
me pretty hard. And all of this, What did o
J look up to find local serial killers in his
area that that could take care of his ex wife
for him? Let me ask around. Hey, I'm o you

(54:13):
guys wrote the serial Killers Rob Kardesh. You know, any
serial killing, it would have to be some sort of
like when O J was in jail met someone, you
know what I mean, and like because he's o J, Like,
oh my god, it's o J. I love you like
you love you want to do something me like I

(54:36):
kill people because of you. But I would say this
legs and okay, you are an actor. We wrote a
movie that was like, dude who wants to like kill
his boss and he's like a detective. So he hunts
down the serial killer and corners him and the serial killers.
What are you gonna do? Arrest me? He's like, no,
I got a job for you. Yeah, he gets his

(54:57):
bosket man. This is this is pretty good. That's pretty go.
I'm intrigued. You got my ear. I want to develop
this with o J. With we gotta take him into
the pitches and he's got to talk about the Buffalo bills.

(55:17):
If you're gonna run the ball, you gotta have a
passing gate? All right, man? What does that? Here's another phenomenal,
This is a much more absurd one. There are some
people who contend that o J was the victim of
mind control in murdering his wife. That basically the c

(55:38):
i A, the FBI, the Illuminati all sort of team
up and start running mind control experiments on o J.
Ultimately to sort of like increase or or bring a
head to the racial tension that is building already in America.
That this is like a chess move that if O
J kills his wife, we are able to Uh. I

(56:01):
guess I don't know what I will say that that
is the type of ship I would have been like
ten years ago, I would have like twelve years ago,
I would be like okay, okay, um, so let me
look it up some like who would benefit from this?
Like what companies? Um? That that's an interesting one, and
like unfortunately, the mind control might just be like he

(56:23):
played in the NFL and like knocked his head around
for however many years, you know, ran right up the
middle of Like I feel like that is where the
mind control comes in. But that's the fascinating one. I did,
you know, I used to think about the Illuminati all
the time of Bohemian Grove and the Builderberg meetings and
all this ship, and like I don't know what they're doing,

(56:44):
but how many things do you have to do before
you get to all right, well, now let's frame o
J for a murder so that because bring racial tensions,
like they're probably just like you know, like stealing oil
from the Middle East or whatever. Like I think there's
better shipped to be doing than that. Your point, that's
not uh, that that wasn't in a single meeting when

(57:04):
we all just sat down, this got pitched out and
everyone I was like, cool, cool, coo coo. All right,
let's get to point a hundred and thirty five. Okay,
let's see you guys know o J No, let's There's
a similar one that also claims that an Aryan cult

(57:26):
might have and not in under mind control, but an
Aryan cult actually was the group that murdered Nicole Brown
Simpson and Ron Goldman, not for the sake of sort
of fixing race in America, but actually inciting the racial
tension in America that they wanted to set up exactly
to be like, Okay, this is and you know what,

(57:49):
Like I could see how that conspiracy develops because, like
I said, after the trial, especially for like young kids
and like people who were maybe just like I had
a cursory understanding of what was going on, there was
this like a cool black people like we did get
like there was a weird racial line John. And because

(58:09):
obviously the trial goes way into it and like the
crooked cop shit and the N word and all that ship,
like it all ends up being a part of the case.
So it's true but I don't know if you could
have predicted the Mark Furman of it all, like he
could have gotten he could have just rolled with his
original attorney and just been like a Copper Plea or whatever.

(58:32):
The Mark Furman and the Johnny Cochrane of it all
are very very those are wild cards that I think.
I don't know if anyone could have predicted. No, I
I don't think that anyone anticipated. I mean clearly O
J didn't even anticipated because he didn't hire He was like,
always come on, brother, way favorite. I gotta say, guys,

(58:56):
like again, I'm gonna plug it again if you have
not watched The People versus O J. Simpson. I've said
this many times, but that is my Star Wars. Like
when when the when the Broncos shows up on screen,
I was like, oh, like the Bronco they caught they
caught a Bronco. Oh my god, Like I was so
I was like, Oh my god, who's gonna be who's

(59:17):
gonna be camping, who's gonna like I was just I
love the idea that that, like Star Wars, you're dressing
up before every episode, like I'm drawing people around. Uh.
It's it is so good that series, and I do
think it goes into some of the trial, like it
really paints the picture that o J did it, which

(59:39):
I don't necessarily agree with. But they really do a
great job in showing how bad the cops were and
how race played into this, and how ultimately they tried
to frame him, whether he did it or not or
Son was involved, and it's so good good and well acted,
and Courtney b Vance and like sucking Darden and Marcia

(59:59):
Clark are old good in it. Yeah, I'll give you
one last alternative theory, and this one actually is my favorite,
and you've brought it up once or twice already, but
I think it's worth digging into a little. One of
the arguments that I read on the internet that people
make for o J being innocent of the crime, not

(01:00:21):
in fact a murderer, is the brain damage that he
suffered from professional football that the CTE somehow exempts him
from the crimes that he committed. You know, it's if
if you watch the really really Sad Aaron Hernandez documentary,
it really makes you want to look at everybody's brain,

(01:00:46):
like the junior stay out of it all. Like there's
a lot of really fucked up ship going on, and
I don't think it makes it innocent. Where do we
Where does innocence come into that? Because I ultimately think
like for justice to be served on that, like, we
have to figure out a way too. One. Look, I

(01:01:10):
hate the NFL. I don't like that league at all,
But we have to figure out a way to protect
those players, and we have to figure out a way
to treat them after they play, because if not, you're
gonna have a lot of very young, almost going broke,
extremely dangerous individuals that are like yeah, that are unwell
because of like I think it happens in soccer in

(01:01:31):
Europe and it happens in football out here, and it's like,
you got to be careful with those head injuries, man,
Like that, right, you trained a dude for for five
to ten years to lift four hundred pounds over his
head and then afterwards you left him with zero money
and zero accountability. So yeah, he's probably gonna add tons
of scarring in his brain. Like there is sure. It

(01:01:53):
is really sad what happens to those players in the NFL.
And I feel like it's such a grinding and look,
O J came from a time where you could get
rich like he was one of the lucky ones, like
he had a career after the NFL commercials everything. So
even then I do think that, and look all the

(01:02:14):
stuff that we know he did, the abusing of Nicole,
the like incidents of rage and the hotel room and
on the streets of Miami, like that ship I can
attribute to CTE. Is he not guilty? That dude is
still very guilty of that, but it is. It is
a sad circumstance. And I think to your earlier point,

(01:02:35):
the hope would be that we we figure out a
way because I think the only way to check for
ct right now is for yeah, you have to be
dead and like pull the brain apart, which is so sad.
They gotta figure out a way to find that in
some sort, Yeah, to figure out a way to track
it early. And then to your point, get people the

(01:02:56):
help that they need, even if you know they have
committed times. Ultimately getting them into some kind of service
where they can be held accountable but also get better
from whatever this ship is is the goal. Here's what
they gotta do. Get rid of helmets in the NFL. No, lie,
if there are no helmets, look at these rugby dudes.

(01:03:18):
They're not getting the same injuries because they're not taking
the same risks. Yeah, I'm not going to skull like
missile head first. Like, I just really want the Washington
football team to win. I can't. I can't. It's very
upsetting to me. But absolutely, is that a conspiracy? I
don't think so. Like, I think it's probably just you

(01:03:39):
might as well assume O J had it. The amount
of miles on him as a running back and the
amount of the load he took and the way he ran,
It's sure. I think the conspiracy was more of what
you have it you want. Yeah, it's like a get
out of jail free car. It's like, no, no, no,
I earned my brain to get out of jail free

(01:04:01):
card was that he was famous and rich. There there
it is. We did it, Sean. This is a fantastic time.
I'm so happy you did it. Could you tell the
people where they could find you any cool stuff? Yeah,
just check on my Patreon at uh patreon dot com
slash Sean Distant. I'm like you mentioned, I'm doing this
Ninja Turtles podcast where we talk about all the Ninja

(01:04:22):
Turtles movies with Scott Ackerman. And uh, it's real fun.
There's other other improv on there and and a lot
of other fun stuff coming and um yeah, you know,
look out for some got it. There's some shows coming
out but I don't even know when, so I can't
really promote them. But there's some stuff on the res
and so just check it out, okay, hell yeah uh

(01:04:43):
And as always, you can follow me at lank stint Herman.
And please, if you have drops, if you have conspiracies
of your own, if you have voicemails you would like
to send us, please leave them all at my Mama
pod at gmail dot com. We would love to hear
from you. Otherwise, I don't know by keep govern the

(01:05:04):
brown mades my crop chips in your hands. All Quala
bears were racist, the whole school players from oost the
Money version defny turkey stuff. I can't tell me. God,