May 12, 2023 • 32 mins
Charlotte Watts is one of Lisa’s favorite people to learn from. She’s currently learning yoga somatics with her.
Self Touch! It’s been there all along as a FREE and easy way to find mind-body connection when it otherwise goes out the window. In this episode, Charlotte and Leonie share the science behind why self touch helps us connect to self – and other– in a way words simply cannot.
For More listen to Charlotte Watts Calm: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/charlotte-watts-health/id1213865117
Visit Charlotte’s website: https://yogashanti.com/
Instagram:
The Truthiest Life on Instagram @thetruthiestlife
Host @lisahayim
To support TTL, subscribe, follow, or share episodes with family and friends!
If you’re loving TTL, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-truthiest-life/id1535516122?uo=2
Guest submissions, please fill out this form: https://thewellnecessities.typeform.com/to/pODTLasN
Edited by Houston Tilley
Intro Jingle by Alyssa Chase aka @findyoursails
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Any even when times gaithard and you feel your in.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The c see just how beautiful life can be.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
When you saften your heart, you can finally start.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
To live your tu serious life.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hello everybody, welcome back to the Truthious Life. I'm very
excited this week to bring you an episode to the
Truthius Life that I myself have listened to probably three times.
It's that sweet, short and digestible, and has reminded me
of an incredible healing tool that's always at our disposal,
free and really helps us take agency over our own body.
(00:56):
It's called Touch into Yoga for Teachers by Charlotte Watts,
And I know that the title might be a little
bit like this isn't for me, but really I think
that it's a really illuminating conversation on how powerful self touches. Yes,
we talk about it as teachers, but also it goes
so much more beyond that. If you've ever been in
a yoga class and a teacher puts her hands on
(01:18):
you and the right way that makes you feel safe, held, supported,
and even more grounded, you know how powerful touch is.
As a teacher, I take adjustments very seriously, only doing
the ones that I feel safe enough to do knowing
the students are okay with it, But there have been
so many moments where I put a gentle touch just
right in this place that intuitively feels right, but also
(01:41):
I know anatomically is safe and emotionally is safe for
that student, and I witness the most incredible thing I
have witnessed people's breathing immediately change and deepen, their facial
muscles relax, and all of a sudden, they are just
like washed clear, with a sense of calm that it
looks like they've never had before. And it's so important
(02:04):
to talk about this, I think because self touch is
something that's like kind of taboo. We think we can't
touch ourselves. We think it's weird to do anything from
masturbation or it's hushed upon. Two that's not what I'm
referring to in this episode. To simply give ourselves a hug.
Like giving ourselves a hug is incredibly powerful, and I
think when we start to really break down these topics,
(02:26):
we realize that we can be our own holders in
hard moments. For me personally, self touch is readily available
and there for me in my mindfulness practice as I
navigate tough emotions and triggers. I'm oftentimes giving myself a
hug or my most recent favorite, placing a heavy palm
(02:47):
on my heart or in the middle of my sternum
and just rubbing in circles. Something actually happened last night
where I felt very jolted and I resourced. I called
on my own resources resources, talk to myself kindly and
walk myself down while placing that heavy palm on my
(03:07):
sternum and going in little circles. Again, just another tool
in your toolbox that's readily available right there, but we
don't even know about it. So I love this conversation.
I wanted to share it with you, and I also
wanted to introduce you to Charlotte Watt. I'm taking her
yoga somatics course right now, which could be a whole
other conversation, but she's brilliant and the concept is brilliant,
(03:30):
and in this episode, specifically, it's a conversation with Charlotte
Watts and her friend colleague Leoni Taylor about the power
of bringing self touch in for students as an inherent
part of an embodied yoga practice. I think that the
embodied word is really key here because a lot of
times people don't know that yoga is about coming home
(03:50):
and inward, especially if you've never experienced a yoga practice
that feels like that. It might feel like another way
to run from yourself. It might be painful. You might
think it's not fore you, But I truly do believe
that it's for everybody when you can experience it in
a way that makes you feel safe, whole and at home.
As you know, yoga, it's practices and its teachings have
(04:14):
done so much for me, and I only hope that
I continue to open the window of curiosity for you,
so that if not yoga or the idea of yoga
is right for you, there's something that you pull away
from it, like perhaps self touch in this conversation, thanks
so much for being part of our Truthiest Life community,
and I'll see you back here next week.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Today, I'm having a conversation with my good friends and
colleague Leoni Taylor on what it is to bring touch
in to our practice on movement practices could be a
still but slightly moving practice.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
It could be still, it could be the movement within still,
it could be.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Doing something that's much more a moving from the center
out but however we look at it, it's actually bringing
our capacity to nourish ourselves through our hands and that
presence with ourselves into our bodily presence, however we're finding
it at any point in time. So, Leo, how did
(05:20):
that kind of that that introduction going of land with
you in terms of what you bring in to your practice.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Absolutely well, I think you know, this is particularly evolved.
It's something I've been interested for a long time because
I'm as well as being a yoga teacher, I'm a
therapeutic time massage practitioner and for a long time I've
been bringing touch into my classes and workshops because what
I find is quite often if you get people who
are a little bit sort of out of body, actually
(05:48):
touching the tissue first before you start moving wakes it
up so in time Methloge. The theory is, you know,
similar to yoga in a way that there's layers, you know,
so if if we touch the skin first, and you know,
and that can be really really gentle, soft touch. We
always have the agency within class, especially when we're doing
self massage, to determine that as well, which is really important.
(06:11):
But you know, we can just start to get a
sense of our external boundaries, like where we end, where
we meet the world, and then as is appropriate, start
to move in a little bit deeper. So you know,
when you're receiving a massage, obviously you're giving that authority
to somebody hopefully who knows what they're doing, you know,
but when you massage yourself, you know, you have that
(06:33):
real autonomy to be able to go Actually today, I
just need to be still and just feel that there
wherever that is, and just maybe hold my shoulder or
hold my belly, you know, and then maybe as that
starts to feel okay, we can move into some deeper touch,
you know, and I can explore lots of different tools
that come from that discipline of therapeutic massage to be
(06:56):
able to sort of bring some specific techniques you know,
that really help, you know, with specific issues as well
as just a general sense of greater nourishment and well.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Being, as you were saying, and even if often and
it's quite common in our world that we feel we
need to know stuff and like you said, kind of
specific techniques, but we can also just simply bring touch
in in a very organic, natural, visceral way that leads
(07:27):
us into somewhere where our body might need to have
a little awakening or reassurance, or.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Like you said, meeting our boundaries.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So often our stresses or even traumas laid down into
tissues can dissociate ourselves from where we find ourselves physically
in the here and now. And actually this orientation and
we can in many ways to help us bring back
to the present. It can be the breath, the middle line,
the ground, but touching our outside edges, like you said,
(08:00):
where we are in a world meets the outside world.
It's incredibly helpful for us to map the orient exactly
where we are, the size and shape we are in
any given moment. And that's that's very much the kind
of definition of grounding.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, and absolutely, And in terms of a yoga practice
as well, or you know, a somatic practice, actually bringing
our attention to where sensation is or isn't in the
body as well is so important. Like so often we're
so caught up and so busy with doing that we suppress,
you know, something niggling in the shoulder or the neck
(08:36):
for instance, for sometimes years.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Absolutely, come to me who pay less attention to their
body than they do to their boiler or their bicycle,
your service, you know, and they go, oh, yeah, you know, yeah,
actually yeah, And you say when did that first start
and they go, yeah, actually it was when I was
about fifteen. So, you know, often we've been living with
something just bubbling under the surface for a really long time,
(09:00):
and by starting to bring self touch into our practice,
you know, at the beginning, sometimes at the end, sometimes
interwoven throughout, we can start to really acknowledge what it
is we've been holding in terms of patterns that then
affect everything, affect our movement, affect our mood, our sleep,
our digestion, our interactions with others, you know. And it
(09:23):
might be because you've just been holding your shoulder in
a particular way for the last fifteen years, and just
by touching it you start to you start to have
a more honest conversation, you know, with that part of
the body that can be profoundly releasing.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And it's really interesting you use the word conversation there,
because that's the nature of touching ourselves rather than someone
else touching us, or us using something like a prop
in the same way, for instance, in arsenal or any
kind of physical practice, in that when we place our
hands on ourselves. We are both giving and receiving both
(09:57):
the hand being touched and the body, and that communication
back two way really can be that conversation, particularly if
we're offering ourselves kindness, compassion in the listening in of
that conversation and give ourselves like we might do in
a conversation with another person, give that time and.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Space for another to be heard.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, it's fascinating where we can also coax something out that,
Like you said, they'd be very common in shoulders that
we have that you know what, can refer to a
sensory motor amnesia where we don't even know that we're
we've been holding intention here, or the jaw for instance,
not even registering anymore. It's become so normalized or familiar
(10:41):
to just be held in tension patterns that it can
be quite a curious thing, to a surprising thing to
bring that kind of attention that starts to offer the
possibility of release there and that in and of itself,
then the hand is there as a nurturing zaurce within that.
(11:02):
It's so multifaceted, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
And then our ability as well to hold ourselves in
the world isn't it, Because very often, you know, there
are of course some wonderful and you know, very worthwhile
experts in lots of different fields who it's great to
refer to, you know, when we don't understand something. But
coming back to that sense that we are the greatest
(11:24):
expert on our own body, having lived in it a
whole life set, no one else can feel what we feel,
and bringing that agency to people who you know, again
can have really huge transformative effects, you know, way beyond
that practice on the mat at that time.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, And is actually that which really fosters awareness, which
is the basis of feeling safe. The potential of safety
must come from that level of of our own awareness
rather than feeling things come from come from an external perspective.
And also really keys into the fact that often we
can notice throughout a day or out throughout something where
(12:04):
something difficult comes up, how we might naturally resource ourselves.
So I'm actually doing it now. I always do this
kind of resourcing gesture. I to lick my fingers in
a kind of kind of cup the ball shape, or
I place my left hand or my right hand onto
my heart.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It's a very specific place.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I lay my bottom of my thumb into a very
specific place into my breastbone, and you know that's where
I go.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
It's a very resourcing gesture.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So if we can notice those things we do, these
these resourcing gestures we have for ourselves, we recognis we're
already having those conversations with ourselves and we can just
follow those in.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I obviously notice a lot within my clinic when I'm
treating people one to one that when I'm doing a consultation,
I'm really observant of where people put their hands when
they're talking about a specific feeling, you know, so you
know they might put their hands on their diaphragm or
maybe on their belly, or if you say your heart,
you know, sometimes people will you know, be pulling their
(13:13):
ear or you know, they'll be real really interesting things
that come up when you have those conversations with yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Absolutely, Similarly, did I do well done formative embodiment work
with Jim File, who's a student of Stanley Kellerman's. But
body psychotherapy, which is very much about it, takes it
more into an animated communicative space outside the body. So
you ask someone to tell some of their story and
(13:42):
then you watch where the hands are going, and they
can be you know what, mimic our internal processes, emotions,
associations with something in the way that we gesture and
we tell stories. So there's an inroad there just to
follow that to see how it might want want to
play itself out. And when we recognize our hands are
(14:04):
are kind of agents of the brain, if you like,
they're expressing our inner world, and they're what we do
with what we express, with what we ask for or
create a boundary with. This is really rich stuff that
we're we're both bringing from the inside out, and then
we can bring that back in to process inwards by
(14:25):
placing our hands upon ourselves in kind, supportive ways. Absolutely brilliant,
Thank you so much, Leo, as ever, a wonderful exploration
really making practice not just something about what we do
or where we're putting a particular part of our body,
but the richness that that really ripples through in terms
of our whole psyche and physicality, which are of course,
(14:50):
you know, part of our whole completely intertwined. So Leo's
exploring what we talked about here with it self massage
sessions in whole health and in various ways of various
themes on two Sundays evenings each month, six or seven o'clock,
(15:11):
but of course they're recorded and will be within the
archive in whole health as well, So asking the question
of ourselves and of others, particularly as a yoga teacher
or someone who guides others into practices that are about
embodied awareness, are about really meeting our stuff moment to
moment as it is, offering space for it, potentially for clarity, insight,
(15:37):
but certainly not grasping at that or needing.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
To analyze, identify label.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
With that as a context for yoga teachers, how do
you see touch coming in in ways that yoga teachers
can facilitate just this simplicity of bringing hands onto part
of the body.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Well, you know, yeah, absolutely, in a number of ways.
I think one of the obviously the most current ways
in this which is really useful is post COVID, of course,
where the whole landscape of teaching has completely changed. I
don't know about you, but I used to do a
lot of hands on adjustments to students and we're still
at a stage at the moment that you know, might
(16:19):
change and keep changing where there's a lot of students
who really still feel less comfortable with being touched, which
I don't see is an entirely negative thing. I see
is quite positive. And that you know, that's where I've
been bringing in a lot more self touch to bring
that awareness to how my body moves in this way. So,
for instance, if I was going to be doing a
(16:40):
class where we might be exploring lots of shoulder range
of motion and stretching, we might do some you know,
warming up of the tissue first, you know, and sort
of getting a sense and getting people to really get
into their body first before their arsenal practice and then
you know, moving into their meditation practice so that you
know it's still has the sort of feel and shape
(17:02):
of what we might find familiar within a yoga class,
but you know that there's this add on that you're
actually allowing people to really come into their body without
you needing to touch them as the teacher, which can
be hugely beneficial because it gives them the agency. And
I think it's a profound movement for students not to
be looking for the teacher to adjust them.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Absolutely, And to be honest, I was kind of going
more and more and more that way anyway, And what
it means a lot of the touching I would do
was actually much more about the kinesthetic direction that some
people need. Some people don't process either a visual or
a spoken instructional queue or guidance and just needed like
(17:46):
their needes moving in a particular direction to go, oh yeah, okay,
I'm kind of on my way. So in so many ways,
the languaging has had to.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Pick up from that.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
But I was, you know, that was really the main
way that I was touching before, in a kind of
instructional way, and more and more, and particularly this is
through Draum informed work. Is it's like you're saying about
agency actually and allowing people to have their own journey,
because so often our relationship with body and with doing
(18:17):
something that is you know, specific movement or exercise is
being told what to do and when to do it
from the outside rather.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Feeling it from within.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
So the idea that we actually have a relationship with
moving from the belly, which we always do or always
moving from the center out and the guidance of that
from our own moment to moment experience, rather than just
being told mechanically not needing you know, bypassing any need
to actually be be connected, attuned inwardly, it's I think
(18:49):
it's so enriching to hand it over, and what it
also hands over is the fact that we have to
be involved. It's kind of like there's kind of nowhere
to hide in many ways, but at the same time
we have the reassuring presence of touch. I think it's
I think it's worth mentioning that quite a few people
(19:10):
don't like to touch their belly. Quite a lot of
issues around relationship with belly and kind of going there
and can ripple out huge amount of implication or take
them to stories or around belly association that they don't
feel quite dominating to the experience, or difficult feet actually
(19:31):
as well, Yes, righty, when when I've taught self massage
for the feet, it can bring up a lot, especially
when I've been teaching teenagers interestingly, like.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
You know, they won't.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Take their socks off time, which you know, I'm really
fascinated in that. My you know, you know, I've just
been wondering about whether that is at a particular point
where you move from if you come from a family
where you have been cared for, from the space of
care to caring for yourself that I haven't quite got
(20:04):
there yet that there is there is you know, a
sadness of grief for that loss and that movement and
that transformation. And you know, very often the teenagers they
don't want to go anywhere near their feet or take
their sucks off or you know, look at them, you know,
So there's lots of body parts that hearing.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Well, we have quite a removed relationship with our skin
and our body as a naked thing, and to touch
is to kind of you know, most of the time
when we're touching, it is through clothes because oftenically in.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Winter it is what time of year it is.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
But but often people will be touching with a removal already,
so that takes a layer of feeling out of the equation.
And definitely for feet, I mean, you know, in yoga practice,
actually waking up the feet as a thing we stand
up for. It's such a key part of enlivening and
allowing us to ground and connect and have any ease upwards.
(20:59):
So take take that back down again to looking at
these things that, yes, that's incredibly unfamiliar and yeah, even
open to to judgment in terms of comparison with someone
else's is a very different thing, isn't it laying quietly,
eyes closed, maybe just feeling apart and the languaging around
(21:21):
that becomes really really important. So I mentioned kind of
really hands to belly if it feels comfortable for.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You or somewhere else or not at all. It really
is agency. Yeah, absolutely, and I.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Think as well as sort of you know, actually when
people are committed to that journey knowing you know that
they may have come to a class because they want
to you know, approach these things that they've held their Samskarro's,
you know, whether it's in the feet or the belly.
You know, they probably have a sense of where it
is that actually the invitation sometimes to bring that compassionate
(21:57):
touch to that area before you move it, you know,
can be really transformative then into the movement, you know,
so you know, again using the shoulder as an example,
because I've got my sholder.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
You can see my shoulder.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
You know, if somebody has a shoulder issue, if they've
been holding tension in their shoulder for a long time,
sometimes going into strong movements or you know, even you know,
very subtle movements can feel very removed or difficult or
you know, negatively affect the breath, but then there's sort
of the massaging of it first can literally warm up
(22:33):
the tissue in a way that then allows them access
to you know, both the physical movement but also the
feeling of that movement.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, and it's not often when we've come to turns
out this perception. If there's somewhere that's holding intentional, we
need to do something quite.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Specific to move it out. There has to be a
movement that does.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
That and or something larger in terms of you know,
a massage is deeper and actually and this is kind
of like a fascia responds to very soft and soft
refined touch and what we're often doing particularly I mean
you mentioned the shoulder, but it's a really key part
for people that sense really where we do get that
sensory motor amnesa that Thomas Hannah talked about, which is
(23:18):
parts of us muscle tissue, you know, connective tissue, any
part of us not being able to go through that
full loop of contracting and then releasing and that part
that is this part of the let go. It's it's
okay to let go part of us, which is you
know that it can take a little bit of reassuring
touch It's often why people with a little reassuring touch
(23:39):
can can cry and have these these autonomic releases, murmurs,
tingle size, starts crying, you know, any of these things.
There are things being able to go through the complete
loop of release, and sometimes that's directly on. But sometimes
you know, if if that area is going, I know,
(24:00):
I don't want that. I'm not ready for that reassurance
because it's too vulnerable. I don't want that level of
release at the moment. It could be near to it,
close to it, around it.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
On the opposite limb as well, so you know, on
the opposite side to where there is the issue be
really profound because obviously the brain mirrors from one side, yes.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And it will be compensatory. Yes, yeah, yeah, oh yeah,
that's lovely. M oh excellent, thank you, Yes, very rich stuff.
And I you know, I do find that just you know,
laying down this agency to touch whenever we're able to
get it, you know, more as I go on and
(24:41):
be getting away from the fact that you know, our
hands need to be in a particular place a particular
way in ours nerf they want to come back in
again at any point and do something that just feels
definitely good, right, And I don't mean that and kind
of like you know, judgmental binary a. It's much more
about the nervous system going oh yeah, yeah, that's what
(25:02):
I need. That's yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
I mean there's so many arseners I could give as examples,
but you know, traditional.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know, depending how far you go back in terms
of traditional.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
If you're listening, but you know, sort of asteners that
people would recognize. So for instance, you know, in twists,
you know, in many twists when you go around sort
of very often bring touch into come back a little
bit from the perceived edge and then touching you know,
as a sort of intermediate just to you know, see
how this feels. Here again, as we were saying, both
(25:39):
from being touched and touching meeting the inside with the outside,
you know, and then sort of feeling that release. So
touch can really facilitate that sensing of release from a
deeper and an exterior perspective.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah. And one of my I mean, my Sassin morning
class is rare that I don't teach well, you know,
mostly very often I teach Trick and aarsen A Warrior too,
just because I love them. I love them, and I
think they it's such a bringing together, but it's quite rare.
I don't bring touch into them a kind of you know,
really feeling where the pelvis is intelligently you know, back
(26:19):
hit turned in, where that lengthening of the inner thighs
relationship around the belly the pelvis there. So we're not
we're finding the way where the body sits comfortably, that steadiness,
that that stirr from the legs beneath in order to
feel the ease in the upper body. That we're not
just bringing in a communication of tension, right how we
(26:41):
doing a warrior is a tense and brittle being as
opposed to the responsive and effortless effort being. It is,
so yeah, I find bringing touch in on many levels
really helps you have that relationship from the outside in
that that that moving from the center.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Brilliant. Anything you like to add in probably could add
in endless.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Because it's you know, it's it's it's such a rich subject,
isn't it. You know that there is there is so
much about touch, you know. I think for me one
of the things is that is constantly that interplay between
you know, our practice on the map expanding into our lives,
but especially if we have a difficult relationship with touch,
(27:35):
whether that's with ourselves or coming from others, you know,
finding that way of conversing with ourselves in an easeful
and compassionate and honest way, you know, through our practice
then has you know, has to have positive implications on
how we interact with other people, you know, knowing when
it is okay to be touched, when it is okay,
(27:56):
and how to touch, getting that sense of permission and
age and see because we've experienced it, you know, deeply ourselves.
You know, I think that's you know, a very profound,
you know, experience that can extend in a very positive
way into our communities as well, which obviously that's a
big motivating factor for me as a yoga teachers, you know,
(28:17):
experience that we have for an hour on the map once.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
A week, absolutely, and it's amazing when we can imprint
these things that resource us, and particularly I mean resources
resource coming back to the source. And it's so very
much the antidote to overwhelm we live in such an
over stimulated, overwhelmed time in human history, to lay down
(28:42):
these imprints of a resource somewhere that we have laid
down a samscara, a supportive samscara, a neural groove of
somewhere to come back to, to navigate back to if
we feel that we've lost you know, things have got
become too much, and when we yeah, when we feel
those out in practice, it's so lovely to be able
(29:03):
to come to something as simple as putting a hand
on somewhere that feels it reassures or resources. Yeah, us,
when when when, when we're when things seem like that's
just so very much happening.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It's there's a beautiful simplicity in that.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Definitely, I suppose i'd add to that as well that
you know, the effects that that can have in terms
of our sensuality and our sexuality as well. And so
often touch relationally is perceived as a sexual you know,
pre prelog prolog. Yes, that touch can be so much
(29:40):
more than sexual between people, and that's a really important
part of reclaiming for a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
And you know, a.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Positive way of relating if they have trauma, you know,
if they're aware that others have trauma, being able to
relate through touch that you know, is for its own sake, Yeah,
you know, And doesn't have that association.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Absolutely, and a lot of that can key into what
mentioned earlier about many people not wanting to touch their bellies.
That second chakra a place of creativity, pro creativity, sensuality,
you know, it's the watery part where you know, the
part where we start to move out of to get
our agency to move and express into the world and
and inter relate in a way with others that does
(30:26):
involve us being external and open to another's external presence.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Absolutely, it's it's really you know, deep rich stuff, which
you know, as I said at the beginning, we don't
need to when we come to the simplicity of touch. Yes,
we can get into the wares and wi f lls
a bit in discussion, but actually in the here and
now and within practice, we simply need to be touching
and feeling, dropping beneath the need to analyze or interpret it.
(30:57):
That's the beauty of it. It just cuts through that
and it can be you know, it's what we can
be what we need it to be at the time,
whether that's comfort, reassurance, inquiry, curiosity, warmth, pressure, the very
physicality of it as well, release of oxytocin all of
(31:19):
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Definitely, Oh, thank you so much Leo.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
As ever, it's been a really rich conversation and I
hope that has supported you coming in if you're guiding
others to really just to allow others the agency and
play with your languaging of how you might just offer
that you know, it's it's fine for people to explore
their relationships.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
With themselves in this way at any time.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And so Leo and I are I mean, I always
include touching my classes and Leo is doing that very
specifically within her self. Massaged classes are in whole health.
So Mason, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Take care,
Any even when times gaithard and you feel your in.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The c see just how beautiful life can be.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
When you saften your heart, you can finally start.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
To live your tu serious life.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hello everybody, welcome back to the Truthious Life. I'm very
excited this week to bring you an episode to the
Truthius Life that I myself have listened to probably three times.
It's that sweet, short and digestible, and has reminded me
of an incredible healing tool that's always at our disposal,
free and really helps us take agency over our own body.
(00:56):
It's called Touch into Yoga for Teachers by Charlotte Watts,
And I know that the title might be a little
bit like this isn't for me, but really I think
that it's a really illuminating conversation on how powerful self touches. Yes,
we talk about it as teachers, but also it goes
so much more beyond that. If you've ever been in
a yoga class and a teacher puts her hands on
(01:18):
you and the right way that makes you feel safe, held, supported,
and even more grounded, you know how powerful touch is.
As a teacher, I take adjustments very seriously, only doing
the ones that I feel safe enough to do knowing
the students are okay with it, But there have been
so many moments where I put a gentle touch just
right in this place that intuitively feels right, but also
(01:41):
I know anatomically is safe and emotionally is safe for
that student, and I witness the most incredible thing I
have witnessed people's breathing immediately change and deepen, their facial
muscles relax, and all of a sudden, they are just
like washed clear, with a sense of calm that it
looks like they've never had before. And it's so important
(02:04):
to talk about this, I think because self touch is
something that's like kind of taboo. We think we can't
touch ourselves. We think it's weird to do anything from
masturbation or it's hushed upon. Two that's not what I'm
referring to in this episode. To simply give ourselves a hug.
Like giving ourselves a hug is incredibly powerful, and I
think when we start to really break down these topics,
(02:26):
we realize that we can be our own holders in
hard moments. For me personally, self touch is readily available
and there for me in my mindfulness practice as I
navigate tough emotions and triggers. I'm oftentimes giving myself a
hug or my most recent favorite, placing a heavy palm
(02:47):
on my heart or in the middle of my sternum
and just rubbing in circles. Something actually happened last night
where I felt very jolted and I resourced. I called
on my own resources resources, talk to myself kindly and
walk myself down while placing that heavy palm on my
(03:07):
sternum and going in little circles. Again, just another tool
in your toolbox that's readily available right there, but we
don't even know about it. So I love this conversation.
I wanted to share it with you, and I also
wanted to introduce you to Charlotte Watt. I'm taking her
yoga somatics course right now, which could be a whole
other conversation, but she's brilliant and the concept is brilliant,
(03:30):
and in this episode, specifically, it's a conversation with Charlotte
Watts and her friend colleague Leoni Taylor about the power
of bringing self touch in for students as an inherent
part of an embodied yoga practice. I think that the
embodied word is really key here because a lot of
times people don't know that yoga is about coming home
(03:50):
and inward, especially if you've never experienced a yoga practice
that feels like that. It might feel like another way
to run from yourself. It might be painful. You might
think it's not fore you, But I truly do believe
that it's for everybody when you can experience it in
a way that makes you feel safe, whole and at home.
As you know, yoga, it's practices and its teachings have
(04:14):
done so much for me, and I only hope that
I continue to open the window of curiosity for you,
so that if not yoga or the idea of yoga
is right for you, there's something that you pull away
from it, like perhaps self touch in this conversation, thanks
so much for being part of our Truthiest Life community,
and I'll see you back here next week.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Today, I'm having a conversation with my good friends and
colleague Leoni Taylor on what it is to bring touch
in to our practice on movement practices could be a
still but slightly moving practice.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
It could be still, it could be the movement within still,
it could be.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Doing something that's much more a moving from the center
out but however we look at it, it's actually bringing
our capacity to nourish ourselves through our hands and that
presence with ourselves into our bodily presence, however we're finding
it at any point in time. So, Leo, how did
(05:20):
that kind of that that introduction going of land with
you in terms of what you bring in to your practice.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Absolutely well, I think you know, this is particularly evolved.
It's something I've been interested for a long time because
I'm as well as being a yoga teacher, I'm a
therapeutic time massage practitioner and for a long time I've
been bringing touch into my classes and workshops because what
I find is quite often if you get people who
are a little bit sort of out of body, actually
(05:48):
touching the tissue first before you start moving wakes it
up so in time Methloge. The theory is, you know,
similar to yoga in a way that there's layers, you know,
so if if we touch the skin first, and you know,
and that can be really really gentle, soft touch. We
always have the agency within class, especially when we're doing
self massage, to determine that as well, which is really important.
(06:11):
But you know, we can just start to get a
sense of our external boundaries, like where we end, where
we meet the world, and then as is appropriate, start
to move in a little bit deeper. So you know,
when you're receiving a massage, obviously you're giving that authority
to somebody hopefully who knows what they're doing, you know,
but when you massage yourself, you know, you have that
(06:33):
real autonomy to be able to go Actually today, I
just need to be still and just feel that there
wherever that is, and just maybe hold my shoulder or
hold my belly, you know, and then maybe as that
starts to feel okay, we can move into some deeper touch,
you know, and I can explore lots of different tools
that come from that discipline of therapeutic massage to be
(06:56):
able to sort of bring some specific techniques you know,
that really help, you know, with specific issues as well
as just a general sense of greater nourishment and well.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Being, as you were saying, and even if often and
it's quite common in our world that we feel we
need to know stuff and like you said, kind of
specific techniques, but we can also just simply bring touch
in in a very organic, natural, visceral way that leads
(07:27):
us into somewhere where our body might need to have
a little awakening or reassurance, or.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Like you said, meeting our boundaries.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So often our stresses or even traumas laid down into
tissues can dissociate ourselves from where we find ourselves physically
in the here and now. And actually this orientation and
we can in many ways to help us bring back
to the present. It can be the breath, the middle line,
the ground, but touching our outside edges, like you said,
(08:00):
where we are in a world meets the outside world.
It's incredibly helpful for us to map the orient exactly
where we are, the size and shape we are in
any given moment. And that's that's very much the kind
of definition of grounding.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, and absolutely, And in terms of a yoga practice
as well, or you know, a somatic practice, actually bringing
our attention to where sensation is or isn't in the
body as well is so important. Like so often we're
so caught up and so busy with doing that we suppress,
you know, something niggling in the shoulder or the neck
(08:36):
for instance, for sometimes years.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Absolutely, come to me who pay less attention to their
body than they do to their boiler or their bicycle,
your service, you know, and they go, oh, yeah, you know, yeah,
actually yeah, And you say when did that first start
and they go, yeah, actually it was when I was
about fifteen. So, you know, often we've been living with
something just bubbling under the surface for a really long time,
(09:00):
and by starting to bring self touch into our practice,
you know, at the beginning, sometimes at the end, sometimes
interwoven throughout, we can start to really acknowledge what it
is we've been holding in terms of patterns that then
affect everything, affect our movement, affect our mood, our sleep,
our digestion, our interactions with others, you know. And it
(09:23):
might be because you've just been holding your shoulder in
a particular way for the last fifteen years, and just
by touching it you start to you start to have
a more honest conversation, you know, with that part of
the body that can be profoundly releasing.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And it's really interesting you use the word conversation there,
because that's the nature of touching ourselves rather than someone
else touching us, or us using something like a prop
in the same way, for instance, in arsenal or any
kind of physical practice, in that when we place our
hands on ourselves. We are both giving and receiving both
(09:57):
the hand being touched and the body, and that communication
back two way really can be that conversation, particularly if
we're offering ourselves kindness, compassion in the listening in of
that conversation and give ourselves like we might do in
a conversation with another person, give that time and.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Space for another to be heard.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, it's fascinating where we can also coax something out that,
Like you said, they'd be very common in shoulders that
we have that you know what, can refer to a
sensory motor amnesia where we don't even know that we're
we've been holding intention here, or the jaw for instance,
not even registering anymore. It's become so normalized or familiar
(10:41):
to just be held in tension patterns that it can
be quite a curious thing, to a surprising thing to
bring that kind of attention that starts to offer the
possibility of release there and that in and of itself,
then the hand is there as a nurturing zaurce within that.
(11:02):
It's so multifaceted, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
And then our ability as well to hold ourselves in
the world isn't it, Because very often, you know, there
are of course some wonderful and you know, very worthwhile
experts in lots of different fields who it's great to
refer to, you know, when we don't understand something. But
coming back to that sense that we are the greatest
(11:24):
expert on our own body, having lived in it a
whole life set, no one else can feel what we feel,
and bringing that agency to people who you know, again
can have really huge transformative effects, you know, way beyond
that practice on the mat at that time.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, And is actually that which really fosters awareness, which
is the basis of feeling safe. The potential of safety
must come from that level of of our own awareness
rather than feeling things come from come from an external perspective.
And also really keys into the fact that often we
can notice throughout a day or out throughout something where
(12:04):
something difficult comes up, how we might naturally resource ourselves.
So I'm actually doing it now. I always do this
kind of resourcing gesture. I to lick my fingers in
a kind of kind of cup the ball shape, or
I place my left hand or my right hand onto
my heart.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It's a very specific place.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I lay my bottom of my thumb into a very
specific place into my breastbone, and you know that's where
I go.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
It's a very resourcing gesture.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So if we can notice those things we do, these
these resourcing gestures we have for ourselves, we recognis we're
already having those conversations with ourselves and we can just
follow those in.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I obviously notice a lot within my clinic when I'm
treating people one to one that when I'm doing a consultation,
I'm really observant of where people put their hands when
they're talking about a specific feeling, you know, so you
know they might put their hands on their diaphragm or
maybe on their belly, or if you say your heart,
you know, sometimes people will you know, be pulling their
(13:13):
ear or you know, they'll be real really interesting things
that come up when you have those conversations with yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Absolutely, Similarly, did I do well done formative embodiment work
with Jim File, who's a student of Stanley Kellerman's. But
body psychotherapy, which is very much about it, takes it
more into an animated communicative space outside the body. So
you ask someone to tell some of their story and
(13:42):
then you watch where the hands are going, and they
can be you know what, mimic our internal processes, emotions,
associations with something in the way that we gesture and
we tell stories. So there's an inroad there just to
follow that to see how it might want want to
play itself out. And when we recognize our hands are
(14:04):
are kind of agents of the brain, if you like,
they're expressing our inner world, and they're what we do
with what we express, with what we ask for or
create a boundary with. This is really rich stuff that
we're we're both bringing from the inside out, and then
we can bring that back in to process inwards by
(14:25):
placing our hands upon ourselves in kind, supportive ways. Absolutely brilliant,
Thank you so much, Leo, as ever, a wonderful exploration
really making practice not just something about what we do
or where we're putting a particular part of our body,
but the richness that that really ripples through in terms
of our whole psyche and physicality, which are of course,
(14:50):
you know, part of our whole completely intertwined. So Leo's
exploring what we talked about here with it self massage
sessions in whole health and in various ways of various
themes on two Sundays evenings each month, six or seven o'clock,
(15:11):
but of course they're recorded and will be within the
archive in whole health as well, So asking the question
of ourselves and of others, particularly as a yoga teacher
or someone who guides others into practices that are about
embodied awareness, are about really meeting our stuff moment to
moment as it is, offering space for it, potentially for clarity, insight,
(15:37):
but certainly not grasping at that or needing.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
To analyze, identify label.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
With that as a context for yoga teachers, how do
you see touch coming in in ways that yoga teachers
can facilitate just this simplicity of bringing hands onto part
of the body.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Well, you know, yeah, absolutely, in a number of ways.
I think one of the obviously the most current ways
in this which is really useful is post COVID, of course,
where the whole landscape of teaching has completely changed. I
don't know about you, but I used to do a
lot of hands on adjustments to students and we're still
at a stage at the moment that you know, might
(16:19):
change and keep changing where there's a lot of students
who really still feel less comfortable with being touched, which
I don't see is an entirely negative thing. I see
is quite positive. And that you know, that's where I've
been bringing in a lot more self touch to bring
that awareness to how my body moves in this way. So,
for instance, if I was going to be doing a
(16:40):
class where we might be exploring lots of shoulder range
of motion and stretching, we might do some you know,
warming up of the tissue first, you know, and sort
of getting a sense and getting people to really get
into their body first before their arsenal practice and then
you know, moving into their meditation practice so that you
know it's still has the sort of feel and shape
(17:02):
of what we might find familiar within a yoga class,
but you know that there's this add on that you're
actually allowing people to really come into their body without
you needing to touch them as the teacher, which can
be hugely beneficial because it gives them the agency. And
I think it's a profound movement for students not to
be looking for the teacher to adjust them.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Absolutely, And to be honest, I was kind of going
more and more and more that way anyway, And what
it means a lot of the touching I would do
was actually much more about the kinesthetic direction that some
people need. Some people don't process either a visual or
a spoken instructional queue or guidance and just needed like
(17:46):
their needes moving in a particular direction to go, oh yeah, okay,
I'm kind of on my way. So in so many ways,
the languaging has had to.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Pick up from that.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
But I was, you know, that was really the main
way that I was touching before, in a kind of
instructional way, and more and more, and particularly this is
through Draum informed work. Is it's like you're saying about
agency actually and allowing people to have their own journey,
because so often our relationship with body and with doing
(18:17):
something that is you know, specific movement or exercise is
being told what to do and when to do it
from the outside rather.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Feeling it from within.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
So the idea that we actually have a relationship with
moving from the belly, which we always do or always
moving from the center out and the guidance of that
from our own moment to moment experience, rather than just
being told mechanically not needing you know, bypassing any need
to actually be be connected, attuned inwardly, it's I think
(18:49):
it's so enriching to hand it over, and what it
also hands over is the fact that we have to
be involved. It's kind of like there's kind of nowhere
to hide in many ways, but at the same time
we have the reassuring presence of touch. I think it's
I think it's worth mentioning that quite a few people
(19:10):
don't like to touch their belly. Quite a lot of
issues around relationship with belly and kind of going there
and can ripple out huge amount of implication or take
them to stories or around belly association that they don't
feel quite dominating to the experience, or difficult feet actually
(19:31):
as well, Yes, righty, when when I've taught self massage
for the feet, it can bring up a lot, especially
when I've been teaching teenagers interestingly, like.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
You know, they won't.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Take their socks off time, which you know, I'm really
fascinated in that. My you know, you know, I've just
been wondering about whether that is at a particular point
where you move from if you come from a family
where you have been cared for, from the space of
care to caring for yourself that I haven't quite got
(20:04):
there yet that there is there is you know, a
sadness of grief for that loss and that movement and
that transformation. And you know, very often the teenagers they
don't want to go anywhere near their feet or take
their sucks off or you know, look at them, you know,
So there's lots of body parts that hearing.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Well, we have quite a removed relationship with our skin
and our body as a naked thing, and to touch
is to kind of you know, most of the time
when we're touching, it is through clothes because oftenically in.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Winter it is what time of year it is.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
But but often people will be touching with a removal already,
so that takes a layer of feeling out of the equation.
And definitely for feet, I mean, you know, in yoga practice,
actually waking up the feet as a thing we stand
up for. It's such a key part of enlivening and
allowing us to ground and connect and have any ease upwards.
(20:59):
So take take that back down again to looking at
these things that, yes, that's incredibly unfamiliar and yeah, even
open to to judgment in terms of comparison with someone
else's is a very different thing, isn't it laying quietly,
eyes closed, maybe just feeling apart and the languaging around
(21:21):
that becomes really really important. So I mentioned kind of
really hands to belly if it feels comfortable for.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You or somewhere else or not at all. It really
is agency. Yeah, absolutely, and I.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Think as well as sort of you know, actually when
people are committed to that journey knowing you know that
they may have come to a class because they want
to you know, approach these things that they've held their Samskarro's,
you know, whether it's in the feet or the belly.
You know, they probably have a sense of where it
is that actually the invitation sometimes to bring that compassionate
(21:57):
touch to that area before you move it, you know,
can be really transformative then into the movement, you know,
so you know, again using the shoulder as an example,
because I've got my sholder.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
You can see my shoulder.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
You know, if somebody has a shoulder issue, if they've
been holding tension in their shoulder for a long time,
sometimes going into strong movements or you know, even you know,
very subtle movements can feel very removed or difficult or
you know, negatively affect the breath, but then there's sort
of the massaging of it first can literally warm up
(22:33):
the tissue in a way that then allows them access
to you know, both the physical movement but also the
feeling of that movement.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, and it's not often when we've come to turns
out this perception. If there's somewhere that's holding intentional, we
need to do something quite.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Specific to move it out. There has to be a
movement that does.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
That and or something larger in terms of you know,
a massage is deeper and actually and this is kind
of like a fascia responds to very soft and soft
refined touch and what we're often doing particularly I mean
you mentioned the shoulder, but it's a really key part
for people that sense really where we do get that
sensory motor amnesa that Thomas Hannah talked about, which is
(23:18):
parts of us muscle tissue, you know, connective tissue, any
part of us not being able to go through that
full loop of contracting and then releasing and that part
that is this part of the let go. It's it's
okay to let go part of us, which is you
know that it can take a little bit of reassuring
touch It's often why people with a little reassuring touch
(23:39):
can can cry and have these these autonomic releases, murmurs,
tingle size, starts crying, you know, any of these things.
There are things being able to go through the complete
loop of release, and sometimes that's directly on. But sometimes
you know, if if that area is going, I know,
(24:00):
I don't want that. I'm not ready for that reassurance
because it's too vulnerable. I don't want that level of
release at the moment. It could be near to it,
close to it, around it.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
On the opposite limb as well, so you know, on
the opposite side to where there is the issue be
really profound because obviously the brain mirrors from one side, yes.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And it will be compensatory. Yes, yeah, yeah, oh yeah,
that's lovely. M oh excellent, thank you, Yes, very rich stuff.
And I you know, I do find that just you know,
laying down this agency to touch whenever we're able to
get it, you know, more as I go on and
(24:41):
be getting away from the fact that you know, our
hands need to be in a particular place a particular
way in ours nerf they want to come back in
again at any point and do something that just feels
definitely good, right, And I don't mean that and kind
of like you know, judgmental binary a. It's much more
about the nervous system going oh yeah, yeah, that's what
(25:02):
I need. That's yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
I mean there's so many arseners I could give as examples,
but you know, traditional.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know, depending how far you go back in terms
of traditional.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
If you're listening, but you know, sort of asteners that
people would recognize. So for instance, you know, in twists,
you know, in many twists when you go around sort
of very often bring touch into come back a little
bit from the perceived edge and then touching you know,
as a sort of intermediate just to you know, see
how this feels. Here again, as we were saying, both
(25:39):
from being touched and touching meeting the inside with the outside,
you know, and then sort of feeling that release. So
touch can really facilitate that sensing of release from a
deeper and an exterior perspective.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah. And one of my I mean, my Sassin morning
class is rare that I don't teach well, you know,
mostly very often I teach Trick and aarsen A Warrior too,
just because I love them. I love them, and I
think they it's such a bringing together, but it's quite rare.
I don't bring touch into them a kind of you know,
really feeling where the pelvis is intelligently you know, back
(26:19):
hit turned in, where that lengthening of the inner thighs
relationship around the belly the pelvis there. So we're not
we're finding the way where the body sits comfortably, that steadiness,
that that stirr from the legs beneath in order to
feel the ease in the upper body. That we're not
just bringing in a communication of tension, right how we
(26:41):
doing a warrior is a tense and brittle being as
opposed to the responsive and effortless effort being. It is,
so yeah, I find bringing touch in on many levels
really helps you have that relationship from the outside in
that that that moving from the center.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Brilliant. Anything you like to add in probably could add
in endless.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Because it's you know, it's it's it's such a rich subject,
isn't it. You know that there is there is so
much about touch, you know. I think for me one
of the things is that is constantly that interplay between
you know, our practice on the map expanding into our lives,
but especially if we have a difficult relationship with touch,
(27:35):
whether that's with ourselves or coming from others, you know,
finding that way of conversing with ourselves in an easeful
and compassionate and honest way, you know, through our practice
then has you know, has to have positive implications on
how we interact with other people, you know, knowing when
it is okay to be touched, when it is okay,
(27:56):
and how to touch, getting that sense of permission and
age and see because we've experienced it, you know, deeply ourselves.
You know, I think that's you know, a very profound,
you know, experience that can extend in a very positive
way into our communities as well, which obviously that's a
big motivating factor for me as a yoga teachers, you know,
(28:17):
experience that we have for an hour on the map once.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
A week, absolutely, and it's amazing when we can imprint
these things that resource us, and particularly I mean resources
resource coming back to the source. And it's so very
much the antidote to overwhelm we live in such an
over stimulated, overwhelmed time in human history, to lay down
(28:42):
these imprints of a resource somewhere that we have laid
down a samscara, a supportive samscara, a neural groove of
somewhere to come back to, to navigate back to if
we feel that we've lost you know, things have got
become too much, and when we yeah, when we feel
those out in practice, it's so lovely to be able
(29:03):
to come to something as simple as putting a hand
on somewhere that feels it reassures or resources. Yeah, us,
when when when, when we're when things seem like that's
just so very much happening.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It's there's a beautiful simplicity in that.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Definitely, I suppose i'd add to that as well that
you know, the effects that that can have in terms
of our sensuality and our sexuality as well. And so
often touch relationally is perceived as a sexual you know,
pre prelog prolog. Yes, that touch can be so much
(29:40):
more than sexual between people, and that's a really important
part of reclaiming for a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
And you know, a.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Positive way of relating if they have trauma, you know,
if they're aware that others have trauma, being able to
relate through touch that you know, is for its own sake, Yeah,
you know, And doesn't have that association.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Absolutely, and a lot of that can key into what
mentioned earlier about many people not wanting to touch their bellies.
That second chakra a place of creativity, pro creativity, sensuality,
you know, it's the watery part where you know, the
part where we start to move out of to get
our agency to move and express into the world and
and inter relate in a way with others that does
(30:26):
involve us being external and open to another's external presence.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Absolutely, it's it's really you know, deep rich stuff, which
you know, as I said at the beginning, we don't
need to when we come to the simplicity of touch. Yes,
we can get into the wares and wi f lls
a bit in discussion, but actually in the here and
now and within practice, we simply need to be touching
and feeling, dropping beneath the need to analyze or interpret it.
(30:57):
That's the beauty of it. It just cuts through that
and it can be you know, it's what we can
be what we need it to be at the time,
whether that's comfort, reassurance, inquiry, curiosity, warmth, pressure, the very
physicality of it as well, release of oxytocin all of
(31:19):
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Definitely, Oh, thank you so much Leo.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
As ever, it's been a really rich conversation and I
hope that has supported you coming in if you're guiding
others to really just to allow others the agency and
play with your languaging of how you might just offer
that you know, it's it's fine for people to explore
their relationships.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
With themselves in this way at any time.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And so Leo and I are I mean, I always
include touching my classes and Leo is doing that very
specifically within her self. Massaged classes are in whole health.
So Mason, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Take care,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.