March 10, 2025 • 48 mins
Hill Harper shares his journey as a father, actor, and author. He discusses the significance of his son's name, Pierce, and the profound impact of adopting him. Hill challenges stereotypes surrounding single black fathers and emphasizes the importance of fatherhood and community. The dialogue also touches on personal growth, meaningful connections, and the evolving nature of parenting. They reflect on their father's influence, and the challenges of raising a son without a mother, and addresses the disconnect between Black men and women, emphasizing the importance of friendship and understanding in overcoming historical trauma and societal challenges.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Speaks to the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'll go by the name of Charlamagne of God and
guess what, I can't wait to see y'all at the
third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. That's right, We're coming
back to Atlanta, Georgia, Saturday, April twenty six at Poeman
Yards and it's hosted by none other than Decisions, Decisions,
MANDYB and Weezy. Okay, we got the R and B
Money podcast with taking Jay Valentine.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We got the Women of All.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Podcasts with Sarah Jake Roberts, we got Good Mom's Bad Choices.
Carrie Champion will be there with her next sports podcast,
and the Trap Nerds podcast with more to be announced.
And of course it's bigger than podcasts. We're bringing the
Black Effect marketplace with black owned businesses, plus the food
truck court to keep you fed while you visit us.
All right, listen, you don't want to miss this. Tap
in and grab your tickets now at Black Effect dot
(00:43):
Com Flash Podcast Festival.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all. So what's happening
in women's basketball right now now is what we've been
trying to get to for almost thirty years. From the
stadiums where athlete break barriers and set records. Kynon Clark
(01:08):
broke the all time single game assist record.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey, everybody, welcome to another
(01:43):
edition in Naked Sports. So glad that you were here.
So I'd like to do an introduction for my guests.
He will introduce himself as well. But I want to
tell you the thought at least the thought process for
me behind today's podcast. I know we live at the
intersection of sports, politics, and culture, but what I wanted
to do was really talk to someone who has lived
(02:05):
a life that lives at those intersections. My next guest,
and I'll just tell you who he is is Hill Harper.
He's an actor, he is he's a father, you know
all of the things. He's written several books New York
Times bestsellers. He will tell you that. But he is
also a man of the people. I refer to him
as a renaissance man. He has lived a lot of life,
(02:26):
and his perspective on the culture and where we are,
especially interpersonal relationships, was interesting to me. I find myself
hearing more and more often that people are giving up
on love, like they are tired of love. And I
don't know if it's the climate of the world that
we live in today, or just that it's difficult to
(02:49):
be open. I don't know if social media has anything
to do with it. I don't know why we are
we as a society feel more comfortable with being lonely
and on the inside and not necessarily being outside and
talking to others and making friends. Some people would say
it's social media. I don't know. But what I do
know is that I hear more and more lately, and
(03:10):
I think I get out and I talk to the people,
and I kiss the hood and I talk to folks,
and I'm hearing no matter whom you are, no matter
what your class is, your background is, women just don't understand.
It's hard to date. Men just don't understand. They're unrealistic,
they're not mature. Women want too much. And I always
think I'm hearing the same things over and over again.
(03:33):
And then I also know, just from the life that
I've lived, our perceptions of everyone has everything to do
with how we're raised, what we consume, what we read,
who we interact with. And today I wanted to talk
to Hill Harper about fatherhood, relationships, personal and professional, debunking
(03:56):
certain myths, if you will. But it's really interesting to
me because this conversation and I'll get even more more specific,
this conversation about black men and black women in black
love at the forefront of my mind because I am
a black woman, and so I ask Hill some questions
(04:17):
about fatherhood and relationships and it's really interesting. And I'd
love for you all to leave your feedback and the
comments tell me what you think. But at the end
of the day, my hope is that we see more love.
That is what my wish is for you, for me,
for everyone, more love. Sit back, relax and enjoy this
(04:39):
edition of Naked Sports.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Hey, everybody, I'm Hill Harper. I am a father first
to a young brilliant king named Pierce Hill Harper, nine
years old, third grade, going on thirty nine years old.
And you know, I'm an actor, I'm an author, I'm
an activist, philanthropist, someone who's just trying to keep my
(05:07):
heart open, just trying to keep my heart open all
the time. And I'm trying to figure out new and
different ways to fail, because when I'm failing, then I
am winning.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Hill Harper, Welcome to Naked Sports. We're fully closed.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
We are. I was expecting something a little.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Different, a little more sass here.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, I was expected a little but yeah, I know
we got the Maya Angelou in the Tupac book, in
the Black Mecha. I don't I don't see any of
my books on the shelf. I do not see any
of my books. I believe as a four time New
York Times bestselling author, and I think I think my
(05:46):
books have sold more than those books. But I'm just
saying it curs more young brothers. But it's okay, it's okay.
Maybe my book someday will make it on the Naked
Sports shelf.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Okay, First and foremost, something, while you're calling us out,
this is the interior. The decorations that were here, prior
to me even arriving. Remember I told you my first
time using this studio. Oh I thought this was But
I love how it is in motif of my life
and who I am. You should be next.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I love the fact that you're choosing studios that actually
stop black books. Here we got we gotta celebrate j J.
Jay hood on, he got that at the original first concert.
He doesn't even look that old.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Don't put me in.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Jay does not look old enough to have gone to
see Selena.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Jay is twenty two. Have you heard of Selena at
twenty two years old?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Come on, Jay? How old would Selena be today?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I don't know?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Do we know?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
If Jay tell us just look it up real quick.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
It is fifty two? How old was?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
How old would Selena be today?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I just said fifty two? I made that up.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Fifty two. I'm gonna guess she would be forty seven.
That's my guess. I'm literally just guessing.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Okay, well, you're probably right, because you're really smart. Next
time Jay J put one of his books in, I
mean could agree. Wow, And I threw that number out there.
I had no idea what I was saying. Okay, that's
first and foremost I like to say this so everyone
knows you are my friend. Right, So we are doing
(07:23):
this interview under the pretense like I have just met you,
but I have not. I've known you for some time.
Do you remember when we first met?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
You don't. No, I don't I remember you do? It
was it was forget Was it a forgetful time?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
It wasn't forgetful. I just meet a lot of people,
but nobody like you. Let me just say that. But so,
so here's the thing, here's the thing, here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I I.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Meeting someone's transient Okay, interacting and actually connecting with someone
I remember, and so like that's so, I remember when
I had the first meaningful conversation I ever had with you?
(08:08):
I don't remember the first time. It's like, Hi, nice
to meet you in in Queens.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Okay? What did we talk about?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Talked about the world, talked about life, talked about goals, dreams, aspirations,
talked about manifesting.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Has anything changed since that last conversation for you?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
A lot, A lot a lot has changed because it
changes all the time. I think that I think that
we are all of us are on a journey where
we're evolving and things are changing. I mean, look at
this world. Look at the world we're in right now.
The world is changing rapidly, I mean so fast.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
The reason why I ask you that the election hadn't
happened when we met. That's right, this the presidential election
had not happened. You were the way I remember it,
and I just want to bring everybody in the way
I remember it. You were You were running for Senate,
right are you. Yeah, you were going to you had
even started, and you were flying all over the world.
(09:07):
As you are, You're a very busy man, but you
were very intentional about connecting with people that you thought
were like minded. That is one thing that I think
is so important in today's in today's society, we got
to find our tribe, and so I felt like, oh,
it was like smart. I've always admired you from Afar.
I always thought that you and I'm sure you get
this often.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Where's the first time we met? Don't skip over that
in Queens. That was the first time. Yeah, I thought
we had met before. No, I thought you were saying
I thought you say, do you remember the first time
we met? No, that was the first time we met. Yeah, Oh,
I thought we'd met like in passing itself.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
No, never, not to my knowledge, I don't. I wouldn't
remember either because I meet a lot of people, so
I wouldn't remember.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Okay, good, So I do remember the first time we
met in Queens, Queens.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I met you in Queens. Yes, However, I did know
of you obviously as an actor, but I knew of
you also when I think you first were on the
scene for a lot of us was when not a
lot of of us, but for the ladies, they used
to be like, oh my god, he's gonna be the
next Barack Obama. When you and Barack you used to
always hang out when he was president, Barack Obama, when
he was in the White House, and I felt like
(10:11):
you knew a lot of my friends around that time.
I didn't know you, but you knew a lot of
my friends. So that was our intersection. But we were
still in the same siye, guys in the same world,
but we weren't the same We weren't friends. So when
I met you in Queens, I thought, oh, smart dope.
I'm so excited. He's going to tell me about the
world and how we're going to change the world. But
the first thing you talked about was your son, and
I'm really curious about two things. We're gonna talk about
(10:32):
your son, but I'm really curious about why you named
him Pierce.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Oh. Okay. So, years and years and years ago, at
the beginning of my career as an actor, there was
this movie that I read called The.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Nephew, The Nephew, The Nephew, Okay, which.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I thought the script was incredible, and I wanted to
play the lead role of this nephew. It was a
character that was half black, half Irish, and they was
going to shoot in Ireland, and I auditioned for it
and I think, I'm not sure. I think it was
between me and Lorenz Tate, but I can't say that
(11:12):
for sure. But I don't know, I care. I just
know a lot of people wanted this role because it
was such a great role. And I remember having to
go to lunch with the producer because he wanted to
meet me and check me out before he made a
decision about who was going to be the lead of
this movie. It was going to be the first movie
he ever produced. And I go to meet this actor
(11:36):
named Pierce Brosnan, who at the time, was one of
the biggest stars in the world because he was double
O seven, he was James Bond, and he had some
big movies you know, blah blah blah. And meet for
lunch and I'm sitting with this guy, one of the
most elegant, intelligent, charming, just cool dudes from Ireland who
(12:02):
just had it's almost like a simultaneous kindness and swag
that was just I was like, you know what, and
then I was I got so impressed by him, and
then doing the film with him and working with him
and shooting with him in Ireland, so I was I
went to Ireland for three months to shoot, got the role,
got the role, got the role, went to Ireland for
three months to shoot this film. Had one of the
(12:24):
most amazing experiences in my life. It is actually the
experience that taught me that race is a social fiction.
That's a whole other podcast we can jump into that,
but but it taught me that and got to know
Peerce and got to really appreciate who he was. We
became friends over time, and I always would say to myself,
if I ever have a son, I want him to
(12:45):
turn out like you.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Really you were so impressed with him, Yes, and it
wasn't just the first meeting was great, but then working
with him really sold you.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And becoming friends and becoming after that, and spending time
with him and his wife and and his family, and
visiting him at his house, and just the level of
cool and kindness. And I just love the name Pierce.
And I always wanted to name my son a name
that not too many people have. I mean, there's not
(13:14):
too many pierces. There's certainly not too many black pierces
except for Paul Pierce.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
But that's his last name, of his first name. Okay,
so this is very interesting. You were so impressed by him,
You're like, I'm gonna name my son after him.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I wasn't thinking that. I wasn't thinking that. In other words,
when I was thinking of names for my son, and
that's when it came up, like, okay, what are some names,
because I was thinking of different names, and then it
just kept coming back to Pierce. It wasn't like years
and years years I was saying, okay, when I have
my first son. It was just like, you know, I
would love my son to turn out like you, not
necessarily name him after you. But then it is eventually,
(13:50):
when you're thinking of names, I'm just yeah, I can't remember,
and there was a list, there was other names.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Time for a full stop, heading to a commercial break.
We'll be back in just a few moments. I remember
watching you on Good Morning America being interviewed by Robin
Roberts about adopting peers. Yes, I want you to walk
me through that process. I think it's really interesting because one,
(14:20):
we don't hear a lot about single black men adopting kids.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Single men period.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Single I was getting there, single men period, but black
men more specifically because it just feels like an oddity
in the culture. But single man period. Yes, but I'm
concerned about the culture. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Well. Number one, let's dispelse some miss talk to me.
Black men are among the most, if not the most
present fathers in the world, and pop cultural society would
just try to tell you different brothers are present in
their children's lives more so than any other culture. Okay, now,
(14:58):
you're right, a lot of of men black men are
otherwise who are single, don't adopt. And let me say this.
I'll say this right to the camera because I mean
this very deeply. I don't if you're a man or
a woman watching this. If you've ever had the intuition
to adopt a child, follow it. You should do it
because there are too many kids who are in foster
(15:24):
care right now as we're talking. There are too many
children being moved around house to house who need us,
who need people with the capacity to bring them in.
And adopting my son was the best decision I've ever made,
one of the most difficult. It changed my life in
ways that I couldn't even have anticipated. But it's the
(15:48):
most important decision I've made. And I always knew I
wanted to adopt, but I always thought that I would
do it much more traditionally. I always thought I was
going to get married, I was going to have some
some bio kids, and then I was bioid and I
was going to adopt some kids.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I always thought I was gonna have always thought you
would adopt that.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Oh yeah, I always thought I was gonna have three
bio kids and adopt two kids. I always I was
gonna have five kids, right, And then I got challenged
one time by a friend who said, Hill, you live
your life very non traditionally. Why are you allowing Because
I said, you know, I'm not gonna have kids until
I get married, and da da da da. And she said,
why are you allowing what society tells you is the
(16:28):
right order to do things. Why don't you adopt? And
I was like, I'm not ready, But that's a fallacy.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
God doesn't put anything on your heart that you aren't
ready to handle. And God put this on my heart
and also created the scenario where it was very clear
what I should do. I wasn't out there looking.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
How the scenario. What was the scenario?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Well, you know, I don't want to get into too
much around his birth mother's life circumstance because that's her business.
And it was a scenario where Pierce needed a home
and I had the capacity to provide that.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
And they asked you specifically, Someone called you up and said, hey,
do you want to adopt?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
No? No, So what happened was my friend challenged me
with that she was in the process of looking to adopt,
but then she got pregnant with twins. Oh, and she
had introduced me to the person that she was working
with at like some function, and he was like, oh,
you know, Cathy told me that you were interested and
potentially adopted. I was like, yeah, I'm definitely going to adopt.
(17:46):
I don't know when I'm not ready. And then he said, well,
why don't you, you know, do the paperwork or do
some stuff. Just get in the get in the in
the system, because it takes so long and you could
always say yes, no whatever. He was particularly interested because
I said, you know, I was interested in adopting a
black American male. Now here's another sad but true fact.
(18:07):
Black American boys are the least adopted child in the world.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Really.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
In other words, people will go to Zimbabwe, Kenya, Ethiopia, Romania, Bulgaria, Korea,
China and adopt a baby, but a black American boy
they don't. And you talk about how deep and all
adopted black girl American girl, but you talk talk about
(18:36):
how deep the embedded systemic racism and notions about black
men are. It's so deep that they bring it on
a baby. And so he was like, since you're interested
in adopting a black American boy, you know, yeah, we
want to keep you. You want to we want to
(18:57):
stay connected. And then he called me, oh, love it,
and I wasn't already.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
What does that mean? I thought, you said, if God
puts it on your heart, you're ready. Well I wasn't ready.
What that means.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I didn't think. I didn't think I was getting a
call to adopt. Oh, now he called me to adopt.
But I wanted to find out what was going on.
So there was other things going on that I thought
I could help with, but I didn't. I was like,
but let me help with these other things. Yeah, and
then but then God put it on me.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Wow. As I started to get more involved, first night
you bring Pierce home, what are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I was terrified. I was terrified because you got to
understand that call happened right before Thanksgiving twenty fifteen. Pierce
was born December nineteenth, twenty fifteen. So I went from
never changing a diaper to being holding a little baby
in palm of my hand in about three weeks. I
(19:52):
was freaking out.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I would be for freaking out.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I was so afraid that he wasn't he was going
to stop breathing out, like I was like trying to
listen for breath, you know, making sure when he's asleep.
I was, I was. I was freaking out. But then
you know, you kicking the modes and one of the
best stories about this whole experience that people don't even believe.
And I'd actually like to put it in a movie someday,
but no one would believe it in the movie. Is
(20:17):
that I was so hell bent on making sure that
he had breast milk. I was doing It's almost like
doing breast milk drug deals. I would show up. I
was in New York, so I show up people's house.
You got that milk?
Speaker 3 (20:34):
You got that milk.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
So I'd show up with a cooler and we loaded
in and so.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
So wait, hold on, you were just getting random breast milk.
What do you mean here, sir?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Not random?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Now? I was you walking around the bread women your milk?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Well, first of all, if breast milk is in a
deep freezer, it lasts for six months. If it's deep frozen,
and breast milk is gold, breast milk is gold, okay,
and particularly unpasteurized breast milk. And what happened is that
I was fortunate enough to get put into a New
(21:14):
York Mom's list serve that, and someone in the list
Serve said, Hey, I have a friend who's male who
adopted baby boy. He'd like to get breast milk.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
And then.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
A lot of moms know how valuable the milk is
and and they freeze the extra and they know that
it it after six months, it's not usable, so it's
going to go to waste anyway. And so they were
so kind to say, oh, he can come get, he
can come get.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I love this story. And then when did you feel
And I know you don't even feel like you have
it one hundred percent down, but I mean it is
a journey. You're learning every single day. But when did
you feel comfortable with him, like three months, six months
when you felt like, Okay, we have a routine, I'm learning,
changing die papers. I feel like this feels comfortable.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
As soon as my life changed, I felt comfortable. But
I had a lot of help. I couldn't have done
it without help, support from sator community and all of that.
But I mean, to be honest, I probably feel less
comfortable now than then because because the beautiful thing is
when they're a baby, they're all their care is relying
(22:30):
upon you, but they don't talk back, so you you
can sort of navigate things the way you want. Now
he's nine years old and he's talking back, doing this
and doing that, and you and so I have less
control and ability now then the baby.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
You're more comfortable now laughing because I've experienced I've heard
I've heard it when I if I've talked to other phone,
and I see, he's just such a little man. He
has his own mind, he is own wing, and it
just makes me laugh, that's all.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
But I, you know, I just have to hope that
the stuff that we do on a daily basis is
making an imprint. We just shifted to a new morning
mantra because I've tried to do these mantras to try to,
you know, just embed in his subconscious because you know,
these young kids are getting bombarded, we all are getting
bombarded with so much negative subconscious stuff that I try
(23:20):
to try to combat that. And so we'd been working
one thing for a very long time and we just
switched to a different one. And so just you know,
sometimes sometimes you don't want to do it, and I
check in, I said, but did you live the mantra today?
Because we're all about trying to get one percent better
every day. We're just trying to get one percent better
every day, And so I said, did you one percent
(23:41):
better today? And then we talked through you know, what
are the things age, three head, heart, and hustle and
a lot of different things. A lot of it has
a little bit of a sports analogy to a lot
of the mantras. But but he's I think you know
one percent better every day.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I've said this to you before, just just knowing you
as a person. I was like, you're a good man.
You have a good heart, and I think that's so
beautiful that you are one reminding us that there are
myths related to black fatherhood and that and that obviously
something I didn't know, that Black American boys are the
least to be adopted, and that to me is a
(24:15):
travesty in itself. So I thank you for that because
that is something that people are going to listen to
and say, oh, I didn't know that. It's heartbreaking, heartbreaking.
But also those who have the urge to adopt or
want to adopt, like, go do that, please, go do
this do it right now. We need important, We need you,
they need you fatherhood. I'd like to ask you about
(24:36):
your father, Doctor Harry D. Harper Junior read that he
was a doctor as his brother and your mother was
one of the first practicing black anesthesiologists in the country.
It's just very amazing to know that that you come
from from good stock. Talk to me about your father,
your relationship with him.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know, my father demanded excellence and he wanted his
sons to be a And I have an older brother
who is Harry Harper the third. And you know, my
dad died way too young. I mean, that's that's I
think he was sixty two. I just you know, he
(25:19):
he wrote, you know, he wrote us hard. I mean
he was hard, but he knew that we could be great.
And he his father was great. And you know, we joke.
He always said, you can always tell a Harper, but
you can't tell him much. And and but we you know,
(25:46):
he was very different than me, super flashy. You know,
he wore about ten gold chains, he wore diamonds, he
had you know, he's the first person I ever saw
with a diamond face Rolex. You know, he drove really
flashy cars.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
That was my dad was like the dude, he was
the man. He had all of his swag, all of it,
and and I inherited a lot of that, but in
a different way. I exhibit mine in a different way
than he did. I don't wear any jewelry and all that.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
He said, when you get married, she can't even get
a ring.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
No, no, no, no, a joke.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
That's a joke.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I don't I don't want to give the Beers.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
And that's what you are listen conscious as all blood.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
There's so much blood in that company. Yeah, just just
you know, we talk about blood dimonds. You talk about
stand a company that you know over ninety percent of
the diamond trade goes through that company, and those people
are billionaires off the blood of black people. Let's just
be call it what it is. So me and my
future wife, we can go mine for our own diamond
(26:56):
to make sure the Beers doesn't touch one cent of
our money.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
That sounds exaciting.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I think that would be fine because I love beautiful things. Yeah,
and so there's nothing wrong with diamonds as long as
de Beer's doesn't have my money.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Back to your dad.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Okay. So doctor Harry Harper, he was a psychiatrist. He
and my mother met at Howard Medical School and he
just was amazing. He died of cancer. He was diagnosed
with the same type of cancer I was diagnosed with. Unfortunately,
his cancer had migrated and he ended up dying of
pancreatic cancer, and I credit him for so much of
(27:33):
what I have and who I am, and I just wish,
you know. I know he's here in spirit and he
lives in me, but I wish he'd been around to
see some of the things that I've done, because every son,
I don't care, who wants to make his dad proud,
you know. And I hope that he's looking down, you know,
and he's proud. And I know for a fact that
(27:56):
who I am and the level of resilience in personance
that I have confidence that I have the man that
I am is because my father raised me, you know,
and my mom lives with me.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I love my mom. She's amazing. She's a trailblazer in
her own right, and man, get into her story. But
I do know I'd be a different human if my
dad hadn't raised me. Of course, you said something that
triggered a thought for me. You said, he wrote us.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
He was really hard, and you know that you are
the man you are today because of him, and you
wish he was around so you know he could see you.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
And also and also helped me with my son exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
So here is my question. A colleague of mine said
to me the other day he has two kids, two sons,
ages twenty and twenty two, and I'm curious with you
about your perspective with your son and your father. And
I asked these questions because I am fascinated about black
men and their relationships with their fathers with women, and
I want to make sure I have an understanding. And
(29:00):
I feel like in society today, especially for the culture
black men and black women dating, that's something I've been
talking about or being in relationship. It has everything to
do about how we interact and how we were obviously raised.
But he said his sons at twenty and twenty two
are really mad at him now because he rode them
really hard. And he said that he was just a tough,
(29:21):
tough dad, but he wanted the best for them and
he knew that they could be excellent, and that was
the way his father raised him. And he was like
my father raised me in a very different way. But
he was harder on me than I am on my sons.
And today they have a bit of resentment that he
hopes will eventually dissipate once they actually can see the
(29:41):
bigger picture. Do you or was there ever a time
early on in your life, as a young young man,
or maybe even as a teenager, you resented your father
being really strict or hard the word you used on
you and your brother.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
No, because I didn't. I didn't see that that is optional.
You got to remember when I was growing up, there
wasn't social media. There wasn't all. I wasn't seeing other
versions of people's so called lives, and particularly the bull versions,
because that's what we see on social media. You're not
(30:16):
seeing the real version anyway. But you think someone's being
raised this way, how come you think somebody has this
or that the so how come I don't? And so
the comparison game, there was no comparison game because I
had none to compare it too. This was my life
and that was it. Now I'm not raising Pierced the
way my dad raised me because the world has shifted
(30:38):
and changed and evolved and things are different. And so
I'm raising him with a little bit more of a
gentle hand, so to speak, and in a different way,
attempting to raise from the encouragement side of the ball.
But and he gets away with things that I literally
would be you know, I'd be strung up from the rafters.
(31:03):
If if I would have done some of this stuff,
you know, but then again, you know you're back, then
your parent could push you.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
And not go to jail, and that.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Exactly. So it's a different, different situation. So you do know,
you know, you know. At the end of the day, though,
what I try to where I try to level set it.
And this is for everybody, even looking back at my
relationship book that I will call the Conversation or anything, fundamentally,
(31:36):
what do we all want? We fundamentally just want to
be happy, and what does that look like. It looks
like it's different for every single person, but there are
some fundamental elements to that. Feeling good about who you
are when you look in the mirror, being kind, being generous,
(31:59):
and want the best for whoever you're sitting across from,
whether it's a romantic relationship, a friendship, or just someone
you don't even know on the train. Those are just
foundational things and those are the things I'm trying to
convey to my son. So I talk about this idea
of kindness and friendship and and and and there's a
there's a level of selfishness that is running through our
(32:21):
culture right now.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Of course, And so.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You know, I think the best version of us is
that version that wants to give, give away, give, give, give,
and and that's what I'm trying to show. And I
believe that ultimately it seeps sentinence. I gotta believe that,
and that he's seeing that. And also risk taking, and
like I started talking about failure, I want him to
(32:47):
see me fail spectacularly, sure at so many different things
because I'm taking risk and we don't. Most of us
don't take enough risks, I agree, And so that's that's
where it is. And my father was a risk taker too.
My father was super risk taker.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
How would you describe the relationship you have with your
father and tell me the relationship you have with Peers.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Well, one thing that one of the biggest differences is
I consciously said, tell Pierce I love you, hug him,
and kiss him much more than my dad didn't. You know,
my dad didn't say I love you very much, and
nor did he kiss me or hug me much. So
I consciously attempt to do that. Why did he not?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Why did you? Why do you consciously?
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Because it's clear to me that well, first of all,
I'm raising a son without a mother. In the home.
So my son off the jump is missing that maternal hug,
love kiss, that thing that comes often naturally from mom
(33:58):
to son. In number too, I want him to feel
what being loved is and so that he's able to
notice the difference in the future of what that feels like.
And also just you know, I want to keep the
best of what my dad brought, but not necessarily take
(34:22):
stuff that I think takes you away, because I mean,
I think about me and my brother. My brother and
I grew up in the exact same household, but we're
very different people, right, So everybody's on their own journey anyway,
Pierce is on his own. Piers is going no matter
what I do, Pierce is going to be who he's
going to be. Correct, So therefore I'm just trying. I'm
(34:45):
literally just massage on the edges. So if I feel
like he needs more tactile love and support, then I
should do that. And always attempting to make adjustments. I'm
always testing things. I'm just like some some times I
gotta come in like more of a hammer. Sometimes I
can ease off of that. Sometimes I can be more gentle.
(35:06):
It's always I think a work in progress.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
You said that you love him. You tell him you
love him and hug him. Because there is no mother,
that's the first thing in the house, and so you
want to make sure that he experiences that type of
love as well. Usually women do that. Mothers do that.
That's the maternal thing, I guess, is what you're saying, Roles. Traditionally,
you want to just make sure that he feels that.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
I can never replace the maternal love, but I can
be cognizant of the fact that I can make sure
because it's easy to get into a mode of yes,
of just being the disciplinarian and the person who's about
achievement and da dah da da da. That's what my
dad did, and that's what he was. He was very
(35:49):
good at that. But I got to check myself sometimes
if I get too deep into that mode and be
much more about you know what, because again, I want
him to feel good about himself, no matter who and what,
and that's important.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
We'll be back in just a few moments. I would
like to see and I don't know if I if
it's there, and I don't see it enough. But I've
often been asked by a lot of my girlfriends why
they they're single. I'm single, you're single, or maybe you're not,
(36:26):
but there's a lot of single people in our culture.
And they said there's a disconnect between black men and
black women. And I watch some of these, you know, silly,
not necessary, superficial shows on social media that show people
dating games and pop and balloons and all these different
things that I think about, and I go, there feels
(36:46):
like there's a bit of a disconnect to me between
black men and black women. And I wonder if you've
noticed that. I consider you someone who you've written books
about relationships, You've talked about what you think is missing
or perhaps is missing, if there is a way to
describe the disconnect, if that's the right word, between black
(37:08):
men and black women in terms of relationships and dating.
I know there could be women sitting around saying, well,
you know, it's hard to date black men because if
they're successful. I'm throwing out things. I'm not saying that
this is true. If they're successful, they don't want to
date black women if they're successful, not true. They have
requirements that aren't realistic. I've heard black men say black
(37:29):
women don't have realistic requirements. They want something that doesn't
make sense to me, and it's not realistic. And also
I just don't want to deal with all of that. Whatever,
all of that is put in whatever adjective you'd like.
I first off, I want to point out if you
are not only watching this, if you're just listening, I'm
(37:50):
not even done with my question. He'll grabs the microphone,
pulls it close to this is interesting subject because he's
ready to go in. I just want just to know
that I'm just trying. I'm just asking question. I just
hear I am doing what I do. I am naturally curious.
So you so I'm not done yet before you boss
up on me about what's wrong with the world, Well
you know we're run looking at Jay. We are actually
(38:14):
we are talk to me about the current status of
black men and black women in relationships.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Okay, so, first of all, I wrote a book about
this years and years and years and years and years ago,
and things have not changed since then. In fact, they
may have gotten worse. Issue and problem. It's not clear
that we're even friends anymore. And that's it. That is
the foundational piece. Now, you mentioned something interesting that you
(38:43):
just said. There's this thing that I talk about in
the book called the five ninety five rule, and that's
I think that's what the chapter is called. And I
did a test or an experiment. The name of the
book is please, It's called the Conversation. And that's what
I think that we need to have more of, is
Black men and black women have to have more conversations.
We have to talk, we have to establish friendship. But
(39:03):
I did this test. I gave women, you know, a
thing where you filled out kind of a questionnaire about
yourself and said, you know, no one's going to see this,
just be brutally honest. And I asked all these different
questions about how much debt you carry, how much you earn,
and what you do, education level, you know, aspirations, what
you want to do, what you know, kind of house
(39:25):
and home you want to live in, where you want
to live, you know, just all these different questions just
about but I get to know you, like who you
are a profile basically, and then with the exact same
group later on, you know, after there was a lot
of stuff in between, so that they couldn't psychologically make
a connection. I had them do almost identical profile piece
(39:47):
about the man that they saw themselves with and who
they wanted to be with. Fascinating, It is fascinating. It
was fascinating, and you want to know what the results were.
And then you ask them, who do you want to
be with? They say, I'm sure you've heard this term.
I want to be with the man who's equally yoked,
(40:08):
or I want to be with my equal, I want
to be that someone who's on my level. You know
those types of terms. So many of them would say
some version already roll of that. And then you know what,
you know what came up? Is it when you compared them, oh,
stop watch this to what they wrote about the man.
(40:30):
They would say, they want to be on their level,
but this man was here nothing like their level. Five
percent of the women are trying to date, two percent
of the men, five percent of the men. Okay, In
other words, what I mean by that is you understand
what I'm saying. In other words, they didn't. They didn't
(40:51):
describe over here a man that has the same depth
they have. They didn't describe a man over here that
has the same job, income, earning, same type of house,
same type of desired that da da da, you know,
two weeks out of the year, vacations, da da da.
They described a combination between Barack Obama, Denzel Washington, and
g and Jesus. So that so so in their minds,
(41:14):
a man who's equally yoked is that rather than what's
actually real.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Okay, So so I say all that to say what
about inverse?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
The inverse is different. So what we're found in the
inverse was there was a little bit more of a
physicality issue with men. So there were ninety five percent
of the men we're trying to date five percent of women,
but their criteria was a little different. In other words,
you know, dudes thought they were going to date, you know,
somebody who looked like Beyonce. When they look like truck
of Sam, it's like truck of Sam. You ain't dating Beyonce,
(41:47):
you know, you know, I know, I know. I mean,
you know they see jay Z and be like, well
he don't look as good as her, So how did
that happen?
Speaker 3 (41:55):
But you ain't jay Z? Right?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Oh yeah, you know, brother who looked like that can
get her, but you got to be jay Z first.
You can't. You're not gonna get there.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
You know, you're breaking the microphone.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Sam. I think this is fun stuff to talk about,
but it's about it's about being honest and looking in
the mirror. But I think that we get away from
and all jokes aside. I mean, that's that's real what
I talked about. But that's not really that's all the
fluff stuff that's kind of fun to talk about the
real issue is the heart. Can we open up our
(42:28):
heart to each other and really love each other? And
there's so much historical trauma and hurt and pain that
it's very difficult to get past opening up. And so
I was I tell this story in the book. I
was dating a girl who I came home once and
you know, I had a key to her her place.
I come home and I walk in. She's on the
(42:50):
phone with her girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Girl. I can't believe me.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I know, Oh my god, are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Oh my god? To he hear?
Speaker 1 (42:55):
I mean, okay, all right, girl, I love you.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
You know I love you.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Okay, how tires you?
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Okay, Yeah, we're gonna talk to you.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Okay, okay, bye.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Boom, hung up the phone. She looks at me, how
is your day? I was like, Well, who's the girl
who's just on the phone?
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Can I date her? How about hey?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Baby? How welcome?
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Home, how are you, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
And so so so so so basically what I'm I
say that story to say, the energy and the heart
that you put out is ultimately what you give back.
If you've been hurt by a man, or you've been
hurt by a woman, or hurt by your mother or
hurt by whatever, you're gonna close off and you're not
gonna give it. So therefore it's not gonna be reciprocated.
(43:35):
But a lot of women feel safe for their girlfriends
to open up, even when their girlfriends maybe have treated
them just as bad or worse, but they still feel
safe that that's okay. I was in Africa traveling with
the Massies and the Messiah, strong tall black men and
they hold hands and I was struck by that, and
I was like, these these warriors stand out there holding
(44:00):
each other's hands, and I said, that is deep. We
as black men have to hold metaphorically speaking, each other's hand,
just like black women hold each other's hands. And then
we have to hold each other's hands. And you're right.
There's a lot of negotiation around sex and sexual activity
and all of that, but at the end of the day,
(44:20):
it comes back to the heart and wanting the best.
I want the best for my sisters. I want the
best for you. And if I can stay in that
zone and in that mode, I can help open up
my heart to you and hopefully we can do the
same and reciprocate conversation is true.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
The ability to feel safe is I think what I
was able to extract from all of that. If you
don't feel safe, we won't do that. But that is
directly related to what trauma you've experienced, from what you've
healed from. But do you see the distance? Do you
see the disconnect currently.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
There's a lot. There's a lot and if you look
at just look at the data black families as as
as But I mean, this is such we could do
a whole We could do a whole by because the
systemic realities is that there have been structural, systemic correct
(45:18):
weapons correct levied against and to destroy the black family.
And those things continue today and they continue in even
more diabolical ways. And so you know, at the end
of the day, I just have to come back. I
love black women, I celebrate black women. I love my sisters.
(45:41):
I want I want to figure out a way to
support and bring us together and so you know, whatever
that looks like, we got to do it. We have
to or we will perish. We are we are bearing
witness to the establishment of a permanent underclass that the
crux of which is the instruction of the black family unit,
(46:02):
which has been going on a long time. And we
can joke about filling out forms and joke about equally yoked,
but at the end of the day, I just was
in Montgomery, Alabama, and I recommend that every black person,
every forget, every person in America goes to the Legacy
Museum Brian Stevenson and the Equal Justice Initiative. It is
(46:26):
so powerful when you talk about the largest forced migration,
kidnapping and torture of twelve million Black people, and the purposeful,
purposeful removal and break up of black families. It's historic
and it's trauma, and it exists today and it's not
(46:46):
that long ago. So we have to be very intentional
to deal with solving it and loving each other and
figuring out a way to get past the bullshit.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
I love you, dep I hate that we have to
wrap the podcast. We can have five. I think we
should do five more sessions.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
We may have to do a special, Yes, podcast called
The Conversation or.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Just the Black Men Love Black Women, Black women love
Black men. Yes, that that was too long. Black going
loving each other, Blacks love it. Here we go, Hill Harper,
go and get one of his. We can talk about sports.
We talk about any sports. But that's okay because you
know what. The sport of love, the sport of relationships,
the sport of fatherhood, all here, all here. You you
(47:31):
gave some jewels. You you left us with jewelry, and
we needed that. We needed We needed a healthy meal.
We didn't need any candy.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
So I'm so proud of you, and I just want
to say this as this black man, I want to
celebrate Carry Champion. I want to celebrate you. I want
to lift you up and know that you are spectacular, intelligent,
beautiful and deserve to be seen by all folks on
all platforms because your voice matters, your energy matters, and
you need to be viewed, seen and heard. And so
(48:00):
we love you well.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
I thank you for being my friend and taking the time.
But we have to do this again. We will okay, okay,
Bye bye bye. By Naked Sports. Written and executive produced
by me Kerry Champion. Produced by Jacqueses Thomas, sound design
and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Naked Sports is a part
of the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia
Speaks to the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'll go by the name of Charlamagne of God and
guess what, I can't wait to see y'all at the
third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. That's right, We're coming
back to Atlanta, Georgia, Saturday, April twenty six at Poeman
Yards and it's hosted by none other than Decisions, Decisions,
MANDYB and Weezy. Okay, we got the R and B
Money podcast with taking Jay Valentine.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We got the Women of All.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Podcasts with Sarah Jake Roberts, we got Good Mom's Bad Choices.
Carrie Champion will be there with her next sports podcast,
and the Trap Nerds podcast with more to be announced.
And of course it's bigger than podcasts. We're bringing the
Black Effect marketplace with black owned businesses, plus the food
truck court to keep you fed while you visit us.
All right, listen, you don't want to miss this. Tap
in and grab your tickets now at Black Effect dot
(00:43):
Com Flash Podcast Festival.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all. So what's happening
in women's basketball right now now is what we've been
trying to get to for almost thirty years. From the
stadiums where athlete break barriers and set records. Kynon Clark
(01:08):
broke the all time single game assist record.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey, everybody, welcome to another
(01:43):
edition in Naked Sports. So glad that you were here.
So I'd like to do an introduction for my guests.
He will introduce himself as well. But I want to
tell you the thought at least the thought process for
me behind today's podcast. I know we live at the
intersection of sports, politics, and culture, but what I wanted
to do was really talk to someone who has lived
(02:05):
a life that lives at those intersections. My next guest,
and I'll just tell you who he is is Hill Harper.
He's an actor, he is he's a father, you know
all of the things. He's written several books New York
Times bestsellers. He will tell you that. But he is
also a man of the people. I refer to him
as a renaissance man. He has lived a lot of life,
(02:26):
and his perspective on the culture and where we are,
especially interpersonal relationships, was interesting to me. I find myself
hearing more and more often that people are giving up
on love, like they are tired of love. And I
don't know if it's the climate of the world that
we live in today, or just that it's difficult to
(02:49):
be open. I don't know if social media has anything
to do with it. I don't know why we are
we as a society feel more comfortable with being lonely
and on the inside and not necessarily being outside and
talking to others and making friends. Some people would say
it's social media. I don't know. But what I do
know is that I hear more and more lately, and
(03:10):
I think I get out and I talk to the people,
and I kiss the hood and I talk to folks,
and I'm hearing no matter whom you are, no matter
what your class is, your background is, women just don't understand.
It's hard to date. Men just don't understand. They're unrealistic,
they're not mature. Women want too much. And I always
think I'm hearing the same things over and over again.
(03:33):
And then I also know, just from the life that
I've lived, our perceptions of everyone has everything to do
with how we're raised, what we consume, what we read,
who we interact with. And today I wanted to talk
to Hill Harper about fatherhood, relationships, personal and professional, debunking
(03:56):
certain myths, if you will. But it's really interesting to
me because this conversation and I'll get even more more specific,
this conversation about black men and black women in black
love at the forefront of my mind because I am
a black woman, and so I ask Hill some questions
(04:17):
about fatherhood and relationships and it's really interesting. And I'd
love for you all to leave your feedback and the
comments tell me what you think. But at the end
of the day, my hope is that we see more love.
That is what my wish is for you, for me,
for everyone, more love. Sit back, relax and enjoy this
(04:39):
edition of Naked Sports.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Hey, everybody, I'm Hill Harper. I am a father first
to a young brilliant king named Pierce Hill Harper, nine
years old, third grade, going on thirty nine years old.
And you know, I'm an actor, I'm an author, I'm
an activist, philanthropist, someone who's just trying to keep my
(05:07):
heart open, just trying to keep my heart open all
the time. And I'm trying to figure out new and
different ways to fail, because when I'm failing, then I
am winning.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Hill Harper, Welcome to Naked Sports. We're fully closed.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
We are. I was expecting something a little.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Different, a little more sass here.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, I was expected a little but yeah, I know
we got the Maya Angelou in the Tupac book, in
the Black Mecha. I don't I don't see any of
my books on the shelf. I do not see any
of my books. I believe as a four time New
York Times bestselling author, and I think I think my
(05:46):
books have sold more than those books. But I'm just
saying it curs more young brothers. But it's okay, it's okay.
Maybe my book someday will make it on the Naked
Sports shelf.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Okay, First and foremost, something, while you're calling us out,
this is the interior. The decorations that were here, prior
to me even arriving. Remember I told you my first
time using this studio. Oh I thought this was But
I love how it is in motif of my life
and who I am. You should be next.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I love the fact that you're choosing studios that actually
stop black books. Here we got we gotta celebrate j J.
Jay hood on, he got that at the original first concert.
He doesn't even look that old.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Don't put me in.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Jay does not look old enough to have gone to
see Selena.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Jay is twenty two. Have you heard of Selena at
twenty two years old?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Come on, Jay? How old would Selena be today?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I don't know?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Do we know?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
If Jay tell us just look it up real quick.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
It is fifty two? How old was?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
How old would Selena be today?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I just said fifty two? I made that up.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Fifty two. I'm gonna guess she would be forty seven.
That's my guess. I'm literally just guessing.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Okay, well, you're probably right, because you're really smart. Next
time Jay J put one of his books in, I
mean could agree. Wow, And I threw that number out there.
I had no idea what I was saying. Okay, that's
first and foremost I like to say this so everyone
knows you are my friend. Right, So we are doing
(07:23):
this interview under the pretense like I have just met you,
but I have not. I've known you for some time.
Do you remember when we first met?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
You don't. No, I don't I remember you do? It
was it was forget Was it a forgetful time?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
It wasn't forgetful. I just meet a lot of people,
but nobody like you. Let me just say that. But so,
so here's the thing, here's the thing, here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I I.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Meeting someone's transient Okay, interacting and actually connecting with someone
I remember, and so like that's so, I remember when
I had the first meaningful conversation I ever had with you?
(08:08):
I don't remember the first time. It's like, Hi, nice
to meet you in in Queens.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Okay? What did we talk about?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Talked about the world, talked about life, talked about goals, dreams, aspirations,
talked about manifesting.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Has anything changed since that last conversation for you?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
A lot, A lot a lot has changed because it
changes all the time. I think that I think that
we are all of us are on a journey where
we're evolving and things are changing. I mean, look at
this world. Look at the world we're in right now.
The world is changing rapidly, I mean so fast.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
The reason why I ask you that the election hadn't
happened when we met. That's right, this the presidential election
had not happened. You were the way I remember it,
and I just want to bring everybody in the way
I remember it. You were You were running for Senate,
right are you. Yeah, you were going to you had
even started, and you were flying all over the world.
(09:07):
As you are, You're a very busy man, but you
were very intentional about connecting with people that you thought
were like minded. That is one thing that I think
is so important in today's in today's society, we got
to find our tribe, and so I felt like, oh,
it was like smart. I've always admired you from Afar.
I always thought that you and I'm sure you get
this often.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Where's the first time we met? Don't skip over that
in Queens. That was the first time. Yeah, I thought
we had met before. No, I thought you were saying
I thought you say, do you remember the first time
we met? No, that was the first time we met. Yeah, Oh,
I thought we'd met like in passing itself.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
No, never, not to my knowledge, I don't. I wouldn't
remember either because I meet a lot of people, so
I wouldn't remember.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Okay, good, So I do remember the first time we
met in Queens, Queens.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I met you in Queens. Yes, However, I did know
of you obviously as an actor, but I knew of
you also when I think you first were on the
scene for a lot of us was when not a
lot of of us, but for the ladies, they used
to be like, oh my god, he's gonna be the
next Barack Obama. When you and Barack you used to
always hang out when he was president, Barack Obama, when
he was in the White House, and I felt like
(10:11):
you knew a lot of my friends around that time.
I didn't know you, but you knew a lot of
my friends. So that was our intersection. But we were
still in the same siye, guys in the same world,
but we weren't the same We weren't friends. So when
I met you in Queens, I thought, oh, smart dope.
I'm so excited. He's going to tell me about the
world and how we're going to change the world. But
the first thing you talked about was your son, and
I'm really curious about two things. We're gonna talk about
(10:32):
your son, but I'm really curious about why you named
him Pierce.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Oh. Okay. So, years and years and years ago, at
the beginning of my career as an actor, there was
this movie that I read called The.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Nephew, The Nephew, The Nephew, Okay, which.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I thought the script was incredible, and I wanted to
play the lead role of this nephew. It was a
character that was half black, half Irish, and they was
going to shoot in Ireland, and I auditioned for it
and I think, I'm not sure. I think it was
between me and Lorenz Tate, but I can't say that
(11:12):
for sure. But I don't know, I care. I just
know a lot of people wanted this role because it
was such a great role. And I remember having to
go to lunch with the producer because he wanted to
meet me and check me out before he made a
decision about who was going to be the lead of
this movie. It was going to be the first movie
he ever produced. And I go to meet this actor
(11:36):
named Pierce Brosnan, who at the time, was one of
the biggest stars in the world because he was double
O seven, he was James Bond, and he had some
big movies you know, blah blah blah. And meet for
lunch and I'm sitting with this guy, one of the
most elegant, intelligent, charming, just cool dudes from Ireland who
(12:02):
just had it's almost like a simultaneous kindness and swag
that was just I was like, you know what, and
then I was I got so impressed by him, and
then doing the film with him and working with him
and shooting with him in Ireland, so I was I
went to Ireland for three months to shoot, got the role,
got the role, got the role, went to Ireland for
three months to shoot this film. Had one of the
(12:24):
most amazing experiences in my life. It is actually the
experience that taught me that race is a social fiction.
That's a whole other podcast we can jump into that,
but but it taught me that and got to know
Peerce and got to really appreciate who he was. We
became friends over time, and I always would say to myself,
if I ever have a son, I want him to
(12:45):
turn out like you.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Really you were so impressed with him, Yes, and it
wasn't just the first meeting was great, but then working
with him really sold you.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And becoming friends and becoming after that, and spending time
with him and his wife and and his family, and
visiting him at his house, and just the level of
cool and kindness. And I just love the name Pierce.
And I always wanted to name my son a name
that not too many people have. I mean, there's not
(13:14):
too many pierces. There's certainly not too many black pierces
except for Paul Pierce.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
But that's his last name, of his first name. Okay,
so this is very interesting. You were so impressed by him,
You're like, I'm gonna name my son after him.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I wasn't thinking that. I wasn't thinking that. In other words,
when I was thinking of names for my son, and
that's when it came up, like, okay, what are some names,
because I was thinking of different names, and then it
just kept coming back to Pierce. It wasn't like years
and years years I was saying, okay, when I have
my first son. It was just like, you know, I
would love my son to turn out like you, not
necessarily name him after you. But then it is eventually,
(13:50):
when you're thinking of names, I'm just yeah, I can't remember,
and there was a list, there was other names.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Time for a full stop, heading to a commercial break.
We'll be back in just a few moments. I remember
watching you on Good Morning America being interviewed by Robin
Roberts about adopting peers. Yes, I want you to walk
me through that process. I think it's really interesting because one,
(14:20):
we don't hear a lot about single black men adopting kids.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Single men period.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Single I was getting there, single men period, but black
men more specifically because it just feels like an oddity
in the culture. But single man period. Yes, but I'm
concerned about the culture. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Well. Number one, let's dispelse some miss talk to me.
Black men are among the most, if not the most
present fathers in the world, and pop cultural society would
just try to tell you different brothers are present in
their children's lives more so than any other culture. Okay, now,
(14:58):
you're right, a lot of of men black men are
otherwise who are single, don't adopt. And let me say this.
I'll say this right to the camera because I mean
this very deeply. I don't if you're a man or
a woman watching this. If you've ever had the intuition
to adopt a child, follow it. You should do it
because there are too many kids who are in foster
(15:24):
care right now as we're talking. There are too many
children being moved around house to house who need us,
who need people with the capacity to bring them in.
And adopting my son was the best decision I've ever made,
one of the most difficult. It changed my life in
ways that I couldn't even have anticipated. But it's the
(15:48):
most important decision I've made. And I always knew I
wanted to adopt, but I always thought that I would
do it much more traditionally. I always thought I was
going to get married, I was going to have some
some bio kids, and then I was bioid and I
was going to adopt some kids.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I always thought I was gonna have always thought you
would adopt that.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Oh yeah, I always thought I was gonna have three
bio kids and adopt two kids. I always I was
gonna have five kids, right, And then I got challenged
one time by a friend who said, Hill, you live
your life very non traditionally. Why are you allowing Because
I said, you know, I'm not gonna have kids until
I get married, and da da da da. And she said,
why are you allowing what society tells you is the
(16:28):
right order to do things. Why don't you adopt? And
I was like, I'm not ready, But that's a fallacy.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
God doesn't put anything on your heart that you aren't
ready to handle. And God put this on my heart
and also created the scenario where it was very clear
what I should do. I wasn't out there looking.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
How the scenario. What was the scenario?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Well, you know, I don't want to get into too
much around his birth mother's life circumstance because that's her business.
And it was a scenario where Pierce needed a home
and I had the capacity to provide that.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
And they asked you specifically, Someone called you up and said, hey,
do you want to adopt?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
No? No, So what happened was my friend challenged me
with that she was in the process of looking to adopt,
but then she got pregnant with twins. Oh, and she
had introduced me to the person that she was working
with at like some function, and he was like, oh,
you know, Cathy told me that you were interested and
potentially adopted. I was like, yeah, I'm definitely going to adopt.
(17:46):
I don't know when I'm not ready. And then he said, well,
why don't you, you know, do the paperwork or do
some stuff. Just get in the get in the in
the system, because it takes so long and you could
always say yes, no whatever. He was particularly interested because
I said, you know, I was interested in adopting a
black American male. Now here's another sad but true fact.
(18:07):
Black American boys are the least adopted child in the world.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Really.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
In other words, people will go to Zimbabwe, Kenya, Ethiopia, Romania, Bulgaria, Korea,
China and adopt a baby, but a black American boy
they don't. And you talk about how deep and all
adopted black girl American girl, but you talk talk about
(18:36):
how deep the embedded systemic racism and notions about black
men are. It's so deep that they bring it on
a baby. And so he was like, since you're interested
in adopting a black American boy, you know, yeah, we
want to keep you. You want to we want to
(18:57):
stay connected. And then he called me, oh, love it,
and I wasn't already.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
What does that mean? I thought, you said, if God
puts it on your heart, you're ready. Well I wasn't ready.
What that means.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I didn't think. I didn't think I was getting a
call to adopt. Oh, now he called me to adopt.
But I wanted to find out what was going on.
So there was other things going on that I thought
I could help with, but I didn't. I was like,
but let me help with these other things. Yeah, and
then but then God put it on me.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Wow. As I started to get more involved, first night
you bring Pierce home, what are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I was terrified. I was terrified because you got to
understand that call happened right before Thanksgiving twenty fifteen. Pierce
was born December nineteenth, twenty fifteen. So I went from
never changing a diaper to being holding a little baby
in palm of my hand in about three weeks. I
(19:52):
was freaking out.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I would be for freaking out.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I was so afraid that he wasn't he was going
to stop breathing out, like I was like trying to
listen for breath, you know, making sure when he's asleep.
I was, I was. I was freaking out. But then
you know, you kicking the modes and one of the
best stories about this whole experience that people don't even believe.
And I'd actually like to put it in a movie someday,
but no one would believe it in the movie. Is
(20:17):
that I was so hell bent on making sure that
he had breast milk. I was doing It's almost like
doing breast milk drug deals. I would show up. I
was in New York, so I show up people's house.
You got that milk?
Speaker 3 (20:34):
You got that milk.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
So I'd show up with a cooler and we loaded
in and so.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
So wait, hold on, you were just getting random breast milk.
What do you mean here, sir?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Not random?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Now? I was you walking around the bread women your milk?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Well, first of all, if breast milk is in a
deep freezer, it lasts for six months. If it's deep frozen,
and breast milk is gold, breast milk is gold, okay,
and particularly unpasteurized breast milk. And what happened is that
I was fortunate enough to get put into a New
(21:14):
York Mom's list serve that, and someone in the list
Serve said, Hey, I have a friend who's male who
adopted baby boy. He'd like to get breast milk.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
And then.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
A lot of moms know how valuable the milk is
and and they freeze the extra and they know that
it it after six months, it's not usable, so it's
going to go to waste anyway. And so they were
so kind to say, oh, he can come get, he
can come get.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I love this story. And then when did you feel
And I know you don't even feel like you have
it one hundred percent down, but I mean it is
a journey. You're learning every single day. But when did
you feel comfortable with him, like three months, six months
when you felt like, Okay, we have a routine, I'm learning,
changing die papers. I feel like this feels comfortable.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
As soon as my life changed, I felt comfortable. But
I had a lot of help. I couldn't have done
it without help, support from sator community and all of that.
But I mean, to be honest, I probably feel less
comfortable now than then because because the beautiful thing is
when they're a baby, they're all their care is relying
(22:30):
upon you, but they don't talk back, so you you
can sort of navigate things the way you want. Now
he's nine years old and he's talking back, doing this
and doing that, and you and so I have less
control and ability now then the baby.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
You're more comfortable now laughing because I've experienced I've heard
I've heard it when I if I've talked to other phone,
and I see, he's just such a little man. He
has his own mind, he is own wing, and it
just makes me laugh, that's all.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
But I, you know, I just have to hope that
the stuff that we do on a daily basis is
making an imprint. We just shifted to a new morning
mantra because I've tried to do these mantras to try to,
you know, just embed in his subconscious because you know,
these young kids are getting bombarded, we all are getting
bombarded with so much negative subconscious stuff that I try
(23:20):
to try to combat that. And so we'd been working
one thing for a very long time and we just
switched to a different one. And so just you know,
sometimes sometimes you don't want to do it, and I
check in, I said, but did you live the mantra today?
Because we're all about trying to get one percent better
every day. We're just trying to get one percent better
every day, And so I said, did you one percent
(23:41):
better today? And then we talked through you know, what
are the things age, three head, heart, and hustle and
a lot of different things. A lot of it has
a little bit of a sports analogy to a lot
of the mantras. But but he's I think you know
one percent better every day.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I've said this to you before, just just knowing you
as a person. I was like, you're a good man.
You have a good heart, and I think that's so
beautiful that you are one reminding us that there are
myths related to black fatherhood and that and that obviously
something I didn't know, that Black American boys are the
least to be adopted, and that to me is a
(24:15):
travesty in itself. So I thank you for that because
that is something that people are going to listen to
and say, oh, I didn't know that. It's heartbreaking, heartbreaking.
But also those who have the urge to adopt or
want to adopt, like, go do that, please, go do
this do it right now. We need important, We need you,
they need you fatherhood. I'd like to ask you about
(24:36):
your father, Doctor Harry D. Harper Junior read that he
was a doctor as his brother and your mother was
one of the first practicing black anesthesiologists in the country.
It's just very amazing to know that that you come
from from good stock. Talk to me about your father,
your relationship with him.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know, my father demanded excellence and he wanted his
sons to be a And I have an older brother
who is Harry Harper the third. And you know, my
dad died way too young. I mean, that's that's I
think he was sixty two. I just you know, he
(25:19):
he wrote, you know, he wrote us hard. I mean
he was hard, but he knew that we could be great.
And he his father was great. And you know, we joke.
He always said, you can always tell a Harper, but
you can't tell him much. And and but we you know,
(25:46):
he was very different than me, super flashy. You know,
he wore about ten gold chains, he wore diamonds, he
had you know, he's the first person I ever saw
with a diamond face Rolex. You know, he drove really
flashy cars.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
That was my dad was like the dude, he was
the man. He had all of his swag, all of it,
and and I inherited a lot of that, but in
a different way. I exhibit mine in a different way
than he did. I don't wear any jewelry and all that.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
He said, when you get married, she can't even get
a ring.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
No, no, no, no, a joke.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
That's a joke.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I don't I don't want to give the Beers.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
And that's what you are listen conscious as all blood.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
There's so much blood in that company. Yeah, just just
you know, we talk about blood dimonds. You talk about
stand a company that you know over ninety percent of
the diamond trade goes through that company, and those people
are billionaires off the blood of black people. Let's just
be call it what it is. So me and my
future wife, we can go mine for our own diamond
(26:56):
to make sure the Beers doesn't touch one cent of
our money.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
That sounds exaciting.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I think that would be fine because I love beautiful things. Yeah,
and so there's nothing wrong with diamonds as long as
de Beer's doesn't have my money.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Back to your dad.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Okay. So doctor Harry Harper, he was a psychiatrist. He
and my mother met at Howard Medical School and he
just was amazing. He died of cancer. He was diagnosed
with the same type of cancer I was diagnosed with. Unfortunately,
his cancer had migrated and he ended up dying of
pancreatic cancer, and I credit him for so much of
(27:33):
what I have and who I am, and I just wish,
you know. I know he's here in spirit and he
lives in me, but I wish he'd been around to
see some of the things that I've done, because every son,
I don't care, who wants to make his dad proud,
you know. And I hope that he's looking down, you know,
and he's proud. And I know for a fact that
(27:56):
who I am and the level of resilience in personance
that I have confidence that I have the man that
I am is because my father raised me, you know,
and my mom lives with me.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I love my mom. She's amazing. She's a trailblazer in
her own right, and man, get into her story. But
I do know I'd be a different human if my
dad hadn't raised me. Of course, you said something that
triggered a thought for me. You said, he wrote us.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
He was really hard, and you know that you are
the man you are today because of him, and you
wish he was around so you know he could see you.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
And also and also helped me with my son exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
So here is my question. A colleague of mine said
to me the other day he has two kids, two sons,
ages twenty and twenty two, and I'm curious with you
about your perspective with your son and your father. And
I asked these questions because I am fascinated about black
men and their relationships with their fathers with women, and
I want to make sure I have an understanding. And
(29:00):
I feel like in society today, especially for the culture
black men and black women dating, that's something I've been
talking about or being in relationship. It has everything to
do about how we interact and how we were obviously raised.
But he said his sons at twenty and twenty two
are really mad at him now because he rode them
really hard. And he said that he was just a tough,
(29:21):
tough dad, but he wanted the best for them and
he knew that they could be excellent, and that was
the way his father raised him. And he was like
my father raised me in a very different way. But
he was harder on me than I am on my sons.
And today they have a bit of resentment that he
hopes will eventually dissipate once they actually can see the
(29:41):
bigger picture. Do you or was there ever a time
early on in your life, as a young young man,
or maybe even as a teenager, you resented your father
being really strict or hard the word you used on
you and your brother.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
No, because I didn't. I didn't see that that is optional.
You got to remember when I was growing up, there
wasn't social media. There wasn't all. I wasn't seeing other
versions of people's so called lives, and particularly the bull versions,
because that's what we see on social media. You're not
(30:16):
seeing the real version anyway. But you think someone's being
raised this way, how come you think somebody has this
or that the so how come I don't? And so
the comparison game, there was no comparison game because I
had none to compare it too. This was my life
and that was it. Now I'm not raising Pierced the
way my dad raised me because the world has shifted
(30:38):
and changed and evolved and things are different. And so
I'm raising him with a little bit more of a
gentle hand, so to speak, and in a different way,
attempting to raise from the encouragement side of the ball.
But and he gets away with things that I literally
would be you know, I'd be strung up from the rafters.
(31:03):
If if I would have done some of this stuff,
you know, but then again, you know you're back, then
your parent could push you.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
And not go to jail, and that.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Exactly. So it's a different, different situation. So you do know,
you know, you know. At the end of the day, though,
what I try to where I try to level set it.
And this is for everybody, even looking back at my
relationship book that I will call the Conversation or anything, fundamentally,
(31:36):
what do we all want? We fundamentally just want to
be happy, and what does that look like. It looks
like it's different for every single person, but there are
some fundamental elements to that. Feeling good about who you
are when you look in the mirror, being kind, being generous,
(31:59):
and want the best for whoever you're sitting across from,
whether it's a romantic relationship, a friendship, or just someone
you don't even know on the train. Those are just
foundational things and those are the things I'm trying to
convey to my son. So I talk about this idea
of kindness and friendship and and and and there's a
there's a level of selfishness that is running through our
(32:21):
culture right now.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Of course, And so.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You know, I think the best version of us is
that version that wants to give, give away, give, give, give,
and and that's what I'm trying to show. And I
believe that ultimately it seeps sentinence. I gotta believe that,
and that he's seeing that. And also risk taking, and
like I started talking about failure, I want him to
(32:47):
see me fail spectacularly, sure at so many different things
because I'm taking risk and we don't. Most of us
don't take enough risks, I agree, And so that's that's
where it is. And my father was a risk taker too.
My father was super risk taker.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
How would you describe the relationship you have with your
father and tell me the relationship you have with Peers.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Well, one thing that one of the biggest differences is
I consciously said, tell Pierce I love you, hug him,
and kiss him much more than my dad didn't. You know,
my dad didn't say I love you very much, and
nor did he kiss me or hug me much. So
I consciously attempt to do that. Why did he not?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Why did you? Why do you consciously?
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Because it's clear to me that well, first of all,
I'm raising a son without a mother. In the home.
So my son off the jump is missing that maternal hug,
love kiss, that thing that comes often naturally from mom
(33:58):
to son. In number too, I want him to feel
what being loved is and so that he's able to
notice the difference in the future of what that feels like.
And also just you know, I want to keep the
best of what my dad brought, but not necessarily take
(34:22):
stuff that I think takes you away, because I mean,
I think about me and my brother. My brother and
I grew up in the exact same household, but we're
very different people, right, So everybody's on their own journey anyway,
Pierce is on his own. Piers is going no matter
what I do, Pierce is going to be who he's
going to be. Correct, So therefore I'm just trying. I'm
(34:45):
literally just massage on the edges. So if I feel
like he needs more tactile love and support, then I
should do that. And always attempting to make adjustments. I'm
always testing things. I'm just like some some times I
gotta come in like more of a hammer. Sometimes I
can ease off of that. Sometimes I can be more gentle.
(35:06):
It's always I think a work in progress.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
You said that you love him. You tell him you
love him and hug him. Because there is no mother,
that's the first thing in the house, and so you
want to make sure that he experiences that type of
love as well. Usually women do that. Mothers do that.
That's the maternal thing, I guess, is what you're saying, Roles. Traditionally,
you want to just make sure that he feels that.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
I can never replace the maternal love, but I can
be cognizant of the fact that I can make sure
because it's easy to get into a mode of yes,
of just being the disciplinarian and the person who's about
achievement and da dah da da da. That's what my
dad did, and that's what he was. He was very
(35:49):
good at that. But I got to check myself sometimes
if I get too deep into that mode and be
much more about you know what, because again, I want
him to feel good about himself, no matter who and what,
and that's important.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
We'll be back in just a few moments. I would
like to see and I don't know if I if
it's there, and I don't see it enough. But I've
often been asked by a lot of my girlfriends why
they they're single. I'm single, you're single, or maybe you're not,
(36:26):
but there's a lot of single people in our culture.
And they said there's a disconnect between black men and
black women. And I watch some of these, you know, silly,
not necessary, superficial shows on social media that show people
dating games and pop and balloons and all these different
things that I think about, and I go, there feels
(36:46):
like there's a bit of a disconnect to me between
black men and black women. And I wonder if you've
noticed that. I consider you someone who you've written books
about relationships, You've talked about what you think is missing
or perhaps is missing, if there is a way to
describe the disconnect, if that's the right word, between black
(37:08):
men and black women in terms of relationships and dating.
I know there could be women sitting around saying, well,
you know, it's hard to date black men because if
they're successful. I'm throwing out things. I'm not saying that
this is true. If they're successful, they don't want to
date black women if they're successful, not true. They have
requirements that aren't realistic. I've heard black men say black
(37:29):
women don't have realistic requirements. They want something that doesn't
make sense to me, and it's not realistic. And also
I just don't want to deal with all of that. Whatever,
all of that is put in whatever adjective you'd like.
I first off, I want to point out if you
are not only watching this, if you're just listening, I'm
(37:50):
not even done with my question. He'll grabs the microphone,
pulls it close to this is interesting subject because he's
ready to go in. I just want just to know
that I'm just trying. I'm just asking question. I just
hear I am doing what I do. I am naturally curious.
So you so I'm not done yet before you boss
up on me about what's wrong with the world, Well
you know we're run looking at Jay. We are actually
(38:14):
we are talk to me about the current status of
black men and black women in relationships.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Okay, so, first of all, I wrote a book about
this years and years and years and years and years ago,
and things have not changed since then. In fact, they
may have gotten worse. Issue and problem. It's not clear
that we're even friends anymore. And that's it. That is
the foundational piece. Now, you mentioned something interesting that you
(38:43):
just said. There's this thing that I talk about in
the book called the five ninety five rule, and that's
I think that's what the chapter is called. And I
did a test or an experiment. The name of the
book is please, It's called the Conversation. And that's what
I think that we need to have more of, is
Black men and black women have to have more conversations.
We have to talk, we have to establish friendship. But
(39:03):
I did this test. I gave women, you know, a
thing where you filled out kind of a questionnaire about
yourself and said, you know, no one's going to see this,
just be brutally honest. And I asked all these different
questions about how much debt you carry, how much you earn,
and what you do, education level, you know, aspirations, what
you want to do, what you know, kind of house
(39:25):
and home you want to live in, where you want
to live, you know, just all these different questions just
about but I get to know you, like who you
are a profile basically, and then with the exact same
group later on, you know, after there was a lot
of stuff in between, so that they couldn't psychologically make
a connection. I had them do almost identical profile piece
(39:47):
about the man that they saw themselves with and who
they wanted to be with. Fascinating, It is fascinating. It
was fascinating, and you want to know what the results were.
And then you ask them, who do you want to
be with? They say, I'm sure you've heard this term.
I want to be with the man who's equally yoked,
(40:08):
or I want to be with my equal, I want
to be that someone who's on my level. You know
those types of terms. So many of them would say
some version already roll of that. And then you know what,
you know what came up? Is it when you compared them, oh,
stop watch this to what they wrote about the man.
(40:30):
They would say, they want to be on their level,
but this man was here nothing like their level. Five
percent of the women are trying to date, two percent
of the men, five percent of the men. Okay, In
other words, what I mean by that is you understand
what I'm saying. In other words, they didn't. They didn't
(40:51):
describe over here a man that has the same depth
they have. They didn't describe a man over here that
has the same job, income, earning, same type of house,
same type of desired that da da da, you know,
two weeks out of the year, vacations, da da da.
They described a combination between Barack Obama, Denzel Washington, and
g and Jesus. So that so so in their minds,
(41:14):
a man who's equally yoked is that rather than what's
actually real.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Okay, So so I say all that to say what
about inverse?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
The inverse is different. So what we're found in the
inverse was there was a little bit more of a
physicality issue with men. So there were ninety five percent
of the men we're trying to date five percent of women,
but their criteria was a little different. In other words,
you know, dudes thought they were going to date, you know,
somebody who looked like Beyonce. When they look like truck
of Sam, it's like truck of Sam. You ain't dating Beyonce,
(41:47):
you know, you know, I know, I know. I mean,
you know they see jay Z and be like, well
he don't look as good as her, So how did
that happen?
Speaker 3 (41:55):
But you ain't jay Z? Right?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Oh yeah, you know, brother who looked like that can
get her, but you got to be jay Z first.
You can't. You're not gonna get there.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
You know, you're breaking the microphone.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Sam. I think this is fun stuff to talk about,
but it's about it's about being honest and looking in
the mirror. But I think that we get away from
and all jokes aside. I mean, that's that's real what
I talked about. But that's not really that's all the
fluff stuff that's kind of fun to talk about the
real issue is the heart. Can we open up our
(42:28):
heart to each other and really love each other? And
there's so much historical trauma and hurt and pain that
it's very difficult to get past opening up. And so
I was I tell this story in the book. I
was dating a girl who I came home once and
you know, I had a key to her her place.
I come home and I walk in. She's on the
(42:50):
phone with her girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Girl. I can't believe me.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I know, Oh my god, are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Oh my god? To he hear?
Speaker 1 (42:55):
I mean, okay, all right, girl, I love you.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
You know I love you.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Okay, how tires you?
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Okay, Yeah, we're gonna talk to you.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Okay, okay, bye.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Boom, hung up the phone. She looks at me, how
is your day? I was like, Well, who's the girl
who's just on the phone?
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Can I date her? How about hey?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Baby? How welcome?
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Home, how are you, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
And so so so so so basically what I'm I
say that story to say, the energy and the heart
that you put out is ultimately what you give back.
If you've been hurt by a man, or you've been
hurt by a woman, or hurt by your mother or
hurt by whatever, you're gonna close off and you're not
gonna give it. So therefore it's not gonna be reciprocated.
(43:35):
But a lot of women feel safe for their girlfriends
to open up, even when their girlfriends maybe have treated
them just as bad or worse, but they still feel
safe that that's okay. I was in Africa traveling with
the Massies and the Messiah, strong tall black men and
they hold hands and I was struck by that, and
I was like, these these warriors stand out there holding
(44:00):
each other's hands, and I said, that is deep. We
as black men have to hold metaphorically speaking, each other's hand,
just like black women hold each other's hands. And then
we have to hold each other's hands. And you're right.
There's a lot of negotiation around sex and sexual activity
and all of that, but at the end of the day,
(44:20):
it comes back to the heart and wanting the best.
I want the best for my sisters. I want the
best for you. And if I can stay in that
zone and in that mode, I can help open up
my heart to you and hopefully we can do the
same and reciprocate conversation is true.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
The ability to feel safe is I think what I
was able to extract from all of that. If you
don't feel safe, we won't do that. But that is
directly related to what trauma you've experienced, from what you've
healed from. But do you see the distance? Do you
see the disconnect currently.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
There's a lot. There's a lot and if you look
at just look at the data black families as as
as But I mean, this is such we could do
a whole We could do a whole by because the
systemic realities is that there have been structural, systemic correct
(45:18):
weapons correct levied against and to destroy the black family.
And those things continue today and they continue in even
more diabolical ways. And so you know, at the end
of the day, I just have to come back. I
love black women, I celebrate black women. I love my sisters.
(45:41):
I want I want to figure out a way to
support and bring us together and so you know, whatever
that looks like, we got to do it. We have
to or we will perish. We are we are bearing
witness to the establishment of a permanent underclass that the
crux of which is the instruction of the black family unit,
(46:02):
which has been going on a long time. And we
can joke about filling out forms and joke about equally yoked,
but at the end of the day, I just was
in Montgomery, Alabama, and I recommend that every black person,
every forget, every person in America goes to the Legacy
Museum Brian Stevenson and the Equal Justice Initiative. It is
(46:26):
so powerful when you talk about the largest forced migration,
kidnapping and torture of twelve million Black people, and the purposeful,
purposeful removal and break up of black families. It's historic
and it's trauma, and it exists today and it's not
(46:46):
that long ago. So we have to be very intentional
to deal with solving it and loving each other and
figuring out a way to get past the bullshit.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
I love you, dep I hate that we have to
wrap the podcast. We can have five. I think we
should do five more sessions.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
We may have to do a special, Yes, podcast called
The Conversation or.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Just the Black Men Love Black Women, Black women love
Black men. Yes, that that was too long. Black going
loving each other, Blacks love it. Here we go, Hill Harper,
go and get one of his. We can talk about sports.
We talk about any sports. But that's okay because you
know what. The sport of love, the sport of relationships,
the sport of fatherhood, all here, all here. You you
(47:31):
gave some jewels. You you left us with jewelry, and
we needed that. We needed We needed a healthy meal.
We didn't need any candy.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
So I'm so proud of you, and I just want
to say this as this black man, I want to
celebrate Carry Champion. I want to celebrate you. I want
to lift you up and know that you are spectacular, intelligent,
beautiful and deserve to be seen by all folks on
all platforms because your voice matters, your energy matters, and
you need to be viewed, seen and heard. And so
(48:00):
we love you well.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
I thank you for being my friend and taking the time.
But we have to do this again. We will okay, okay,
Bye bye bye. By Naked Sports. Written and executive produced
by me Kerry Champion. Produced by Jacqueses Thomas, sound design
and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Naked Sports is a part
of the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia
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