April 14, 2025 • 55 mins
When Jemele Hill and Cari Champion get together, it always makes for a great conversation and a worthy episode!
We kick things off with the state of women’s basketball: where it’s thriving, where it needs support, and why players like Paige Beckers and Caitlin Clark are changing the game, even as they battle injuries and media hype. Because let’s be honest, rivalries make the story, but so does real representation.
Then we zoom out: NBA coaching shakeups, headline-grabbing trades, and, of course, the drama between Stephen A. Smith and LeBron James. We talk about what it all really means and how it reflects on the game and the culture.
Then, Jemele and Cari get into the ethics of sports journalism. The pressure to be first vs. the responsibility to get it right. Discretion, fan culture, and how the media landscape is shifting under our feet. This episode is a whole masterclass on how sports and storytelling keep evolving…whether the world is ready or not.
Connect @CariChampion @JemeleHill
Learn More: Jemele Hill
Subscribe Cari Champion's YOUTUBE Channel
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what
we've been trying to get to for almost thirty years.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Kamin Clark broke the all time single game assists record.
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. And each episode we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey, everybody, Welcome to Naked Sports.
(00:59):
Today's podcast asked, is with one of my faves, Jammel Hill.
No surprise there. But what was interesting was that I
called her and I said, I want to just do
a recap. I want to do a recap of the
Final Four, which is more about women's college basketball the
season at large. And I also because we haven't had
(01:22):
an opportunity to talk about this the way I wanted to.
I wanted to talk about steven A versus Lebron. It
may be old news, but the way in which I
wanted to discuss this with her was just about our
obligation as journalist. Oftentimes stephen A said something that I
thought was really interesting. Oftentimes journalists don't report everything that
(01:42):
they know, and they shouldn't. Sometimes there's just no benefit
to doing that. But the case is also true for
athletes who know things about journalists. Sometimes you know things
about people who cover you that you don't often talk
about as well. And to me, in today's age where
everybody wants information and everybody loves the mess, it's really
(02:06):
difficult not and sometimes not necessarily difficult, but it's really
hard not to get caught up in the mess because
it's so tempting to go there. It just is. So
we get into that conversation. But as we begin to
record this podcast, they fired the GM and the head
coach of the Denver Nuggets, and I was like, I
(02:28):
guess if we can't get along, everybody gotta go. Nobody's safe.
This is on the heels of the Memphis coach being fired,
Luca being traded, and my thought process was, we live
in a world today where nobody is safe. I'm talking
about your job, my job. As we can see, they're
coming for government jobs. I'm watching people who do what
I do for a living. If they go to if
(02:50):
they get too far into the DEI and the criticism
of the current administration, they're losing their jobs. And we
live in a world, quite frankly, where I just believe,
no matter what your profession is, nobody's safe. We have
the great Jamel Hill on the podcast and we begin
with a day of firings. Hope you enjoy Jamil, so
(03:13):
listen breaking news as we are recording this podcast. I
just want to get your first thoughts, first, blush thoughts.
The Dinner Nuggets have fired Mike Malone, just a couple
of years removed after he brought them a championship. Is
that too soon?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It feels a little premature, I'll say that especially.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I mean the playoffs are about to start.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And when it happened, I was actually texting with a
friend of mine who covers the league, and as soon
as it crossed, as soon as Sham's reported it or
as a Shams, I think it might be Shams. As
soon as he reported it, I texted my buddy and
I was just like, Yo, what's up with this? And
at least the little bit of insight he was able
to give me was there's always been beat between Mike
(03:56):
Malone and the GM Calvin Booth, So maybe it was
a situation.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, parents do this with siblings.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
It's like they're sick of y'all both fighting, so they're like, okay, both,
y'all on punishment. Since y'all can't figure out who's right
who's wrong, y'all can't get along, and instead of being
on punishment, it led to a permanent punishment that they
both got fired. So the GM and the coach both gone,
and apparently they had not spoken in some time and
their relationship was not very good. It just is the
(04:23):
timing of this is just so strange, because the playoffs
are about to start, and I realized lately the Nuggets
haven't played great, But it just seemed like y'all couldn't
wait a second, like maybe they just maybe they feel
like they have what they need right now in both
the players and the remaining coaches that are on the bench.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It had to be to the point where It was
catastrophic in the simple sense that they just could not bear.
They couldn't wait till the end of the season. They
couldn't wait for this playoff push because am I wrong
or the Nuggets they are in the playoffs? Are they not?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they're the playoffs and they're a
team I think. I mean, you have a cluster of
teams that are kind of right around the same level.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Some are separating themselves a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I think your Los Angeles Lakers are starting to separate
themselves a little bit. Oklahoma City and Houston I think
have sort of been separating themselves all season.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They have a longer track record with it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But you have a cluster teams that are around the
same and I think a lot of people circle Denver
as a potentially dangerous team because they have the experience
they have. You know, some would say the best player
in the world and Yokic, but it just seems strange.
But we've seen some of that during this NBA season.
I mean, Memphis fired their coach a couple of weeks ago,
so well, I guess everbody is like Craig got caught
(05:37):
steal in boxers, trying to build a clubhouse, so they
getting fired on the day off off.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
But this leads to a bigger issue that I wanted
to talk about, among various things. As we live in
this intersection of sports culture and politics, no one and
what I have found out, and this goes across our board,
all industries, but more specifically in the NBA sports, no
one is safe. Once Luca was traded, I was like, Oh,
(06:05):
ain't nobody safe?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We safe? We safe?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
We ain't safe because it just didn't make sense to me.
And I feel like right now, what we're seeing and
I could be taking two different instances, maybe three different instances,
and they're timing uh and making more out of it.
But it feels like to me that nothing is guaranteed
unless maybe your name is Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James. Right,
there are very few people who have played in this
(06:31):
league where I felt they were like, there's just no
way that could happen to me. Maybe she killed you.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
But even then, listen, what it uh? What's the old song?
These holes ain't loyal?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I mean, like it's just so loyal like old sauce.
This is sports.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Uh, this is a transactional business by nature is performance based,
and that in that performance doesn't always have to be
Your performance could actually be fine, but they have There's
always other factors that contribute to some of these, you know,
moves that are being made with Luca. I feel like
we still don't know the full story. I mean, there's
(07:11):
a lot of conspiracy theories that have floated around about
you know, ownership of wanting to build a new arena
with a casino, facing some political blockades there in Dallas,
and that was why they did it, Because this is
really about them trying to mastermind their way to Las
Vegas that we all know they want an NBA team,
(07:33):
Or is it about the fact that they felt giving
Luca the kind of money he's going to command was
a mistake because he is not the most conditioned athlete
to athlete at times, the discipline they're worried about, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Just sort of other factors.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I mean, I don't know that we'll ever get to
the bottom of that story. But yes, in sports, especially
as we see more and more money being in invested,
the salaries are rising, They're only going to get higher.
I think that's going to make people not as patient
and the demand of what that player or coach is
(08:11):
supposed to do is only going to go up. So
a lot of ownership groups are thinking a lot of
people in charge and decision makers there. I think their
thought process is not just what have you done for
me lately? I think it is like, if we don't
see an immediate ROI return on our investment you have here,
and however they're able to, you know, sort of put
(08:32):
what that investment is in perspective.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It's just it's the nature of the game now.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
And that's for everything. Though. I just feel like the world,
the businesses are changing right in front of our eyes.
Your position, where you thought was what your job was,
is something totally different. I have never seen more of
a hostage situation than Jason Kidds sitting with the GM
of the Dallas Mavericks pretending like he was all in
on this deal. I was just like, this is not happening.
(08:59):
Was it the G or the president? What's O boy's name? Uh?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Nico who I know?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And Nico's a good dude, man. I feel so bad
for him because he is just public enemy number one
in Dallas right now.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And speaking of ain safe, of course, he is right.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah he is.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And I'm sure he was well aware that this is
part of what comes with that job, is that you're
gonna sometimes make unpopular decisions. Didn't expect him to make
one this deeply unpopular, but hey, it is what it is.
And now the Dallas fans are going to have to
suffer through seeing the Lakers as they kind of feel
like they're rounding in the form.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And if the.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Lakers, if they make any kind of deep run in
the playoffs, man, those Mavericks fans are going to.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Be beyond them.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
They're already mad, right, they beyond They already upset it.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Then they got hit with the fact that I believe
ticket prices are going up next year. Man, they had
his fish creasing.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, yeah, that just isn't changing.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Time to be a Mavericks fan.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I cannot wait for the thirty for thirty. I can't
wait for the real story to come out. I you know,
one of the reasons why I wanted you on here
is because I I wanted to just talk about what
had been going on in our universe. And you and
I both worked with a gentleman by the name of
Stephen A. Smith, and I hosted a show. Oh god,
I know where this is going. Where is this going?
(10:18):
Where we go?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Where we want to ask me about this presidency?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Are you about to? Okay, go ahead, Carrie, ask your question.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Do you not want me to ask you a question?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Ask me?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You know, I don't. I'm scared I will all the smoke.
You know, go ahead, ask me, ask me.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So let's let's just take it a few a few
minutes back, a couple of weeks ago, well even a
few weeks ago. Steven A was getting into it with
this player because his name is Lebron James. Have you
heard of him?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I have, I'm familiar.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Okay, So Lebron James went up to steven A at
a game and basically say, I keep my son's name
out of your mouth, and Lebron walked away. What Lebron
did was very intentional because he did it while stephen
A was courtsied. On the day that his one hundred
million dollar deal was signed and delivered and made known
(11:14):
to the public. Stephen A was sitting next to the
president of wm E William Morris Endeavor agency. His agency
and some other well known notables were within earshot of
said don't keep my son's name out of your mouth,
back and forth. Steven A goes on TV, talks about
it the next day, says he doesn't want to address it.
(11:35):
We all know that's not true, but since it was
caught on camera, he thought he'd just go ahead and
let us in on it, you know. And it was
this back and forth, back and forth, back and forth,
and at the end of the day, somehow we got
into the conversation of whether or not Lebron James attended
Kobe Bryant's funeral, and you and I talked about that offline,
(11:58):
but for me, that got into some weird territory of disrespectful,
uncomfortable and why is this even relevant right now? How'd
you feel about I don't care about the back and
forth whether he was wrong or right. Stephen A's job
is to criticize, is to critique, is to analyze. He
(12:19):
gets paid to talk about people who play basketball, and
if Lebron James' son, Bronnie, wasn't playing, we also be it.
But then it went into whether or not Lebron was
a good father. But then it escalated into something I
think that both of these men are probably disappointed in themselves.
If you certainly, you know, if you take a look back,
I think they're probably both very disappointed in how they
handle this, you think, because.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I don't get that impression.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I gotta be honest, like, I think they're perfectly fine
with how they handle it.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Are you serious? I do, Like I don't. I don't
think they have any regrets.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I mean, certainly Lebron does it because as far as
he's concerned, he was just standing up.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
For his him and his ian mines Marc. He's concerned. Yeah,
that's that's how he sees That's how he saw.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That, and he's he's He repeated that when he went
on the Pat McAfee show.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
What I would say is.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I think once stephen A, I got uncomfortable, you know,
and and I this, and I approached this as a
career journalist, been in the game decades now, I'm old
and I just yeah, right, I was like, I'm old, same, same,
And I realize when you're not in the thick of it,
you probably have the benefit of being able to assess
(13:33):
it a little less emotionally because it's not my name
out there.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I'm not the one being confronted by NBA player.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So and I'm not going to pretend like I don't
have petty levers because there's some people that roll up
on me and I it might be about something, right,
So I understand that we all don't get the benefit
of reacting with our best, you know, sort of with
our best mature responses. I get that, But when he
brought up the pard, I was like, I don't know
(14:02):
if I could go there, and I don't know if
it was befitting of him to do that, because one,
you're talking about somebody who's no longer here. Two you're
also then we're getting into questions of character because him
calling him out about the funeral then is saying that
he wasn't there with d Wade's Hall of Fame announcement.
Let's be real, what that really was You basically saying
(14:23):
Lebron is.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
A phony and a shitty friend. That's what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
That's what you're telling people, right, So then we get
into a whole nother territory where you're coming at somebody
over how they have presented themselves and how they deal
with their personal relationships. And I would be wildly uncomfortable
going there. And I thought it was not a good
(14:46):
moment for Steven Asmith, like, I gotta be honest, I
didn't really And once he brought that up, then suddenly
the focus becomes, well did he go to the funeral?
And then we have this whole investigative Twitter detectives out
like everybody like did he?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
People pulling footage?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
You know, I saw this one piece of footage where
when Diana Tarassi when she.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Was Pablo finds it. Pablo, Yes, our former colleague Pablo
Torri went.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
He went all dateline on it, okay, And I'm like, man, like,
how did we kind of get here? And I guess
you know, I live in La, you're from La.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You know this the levels of grief people still feel about.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Kobe not being here. I was like, man, I just
I just would not have been comfortable going there. So
that everybody's different. I'm not here to judge anybody's professional ethics,
but I personally was not comfortable watching this all unfold.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I was not only was I uncomfortable when Pablo posted that,
I you know, and it's not for me to criticize
other colleagues. I just don't do it. I don't. I
don't think there's any any real gain and I've done
it several times, maybe three times in the past, and
I thought, well, maybe I should have thought twice about
what I said, but I immediately posted on that. I said, enough,
(16:09):
this man is dead. Let him rest in peace. This
has gone beyond what's going on with Steven aans And
and Lebron. You're talking about a grieving wife widow. You're
talking about kids who are very well aware of what's
being said about their father and and quite frankly, this
(16:30):
has nothing to do with where we started. The argument
has been lost. We've jumped the shark, as they say, like,
this is what is this we're talking about now? And
I know you're saying it's alluding to his character, but
I don't think and I said this on my show,
I don't think any one of them should play thee
I know who you are a game, I know what
you I know who people, I know what people think
(16:54):
about you game. Nobody is without some books, and no
one is perfect. So I don't want to know about
their personal lives. I don't want to know about their
character off camera or off court that should not be
made public knowledge. There is something about the level of
discretion that I think we all need to keep to
(17:16):
maintain some maintain some level of professionalism. And I was
getting uncomfortable. I was like, this is getting into territory
that might end up in a space where we know
too much about these men that we don't even need
to know about them. Does that make sense? And I
know that's so high brow because people live.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
No, I mean, but I'm not trying to go back.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I'm kind of with you because look, Harry, I mean,
if you and I wanted to tell it, we could
tell it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Yeah, I mean, if we wanted to tell it, we
could tell it.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Right. We just crossed my legs.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Now you get nervous. I'm like, we all have.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Something to say about everyone in this business, and there's
just no need. There's just no need.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
And it is it because I don't think any of
us would feel comfortable if that spotlight came in our direction, correct, right,
the real the one that's showing all the skeletal bones.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, and so the skeletal bones go ahead, doctor hill Wallace.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
No, we would not want that spotlight. And so.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
There was something that Stephen A said in one of
his many responses, and that is true. Is that a
lot of times us as journalists. We the things we
don't report, the things we don't say. It's significant because
there's a lot of stuff that we could say that
we do not say. And I think most of us
are mature enough to not say those things because we
(18:41):
know we're not perfect, and we know that a lot
of times while our professional careers, we may feel like, okay,
it would it would stand up to some scrutiny, but
we done all made some mistakes, all is, don't nobody
else know about?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yes, for sure?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And so because of that, yes, it is got to
be some honor among thieves. There is there got to
be some honor among thieves. It's gotta be we gotta
we gotta uphold certain tenets of his game.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
All right.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
And we can't be out here just wildly snitching on
focks like.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Hey, hey man, like you know that ain't cool.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
We can't be out here wildly snitching on folks because
it's not cool, because I don't want nobody to snitch
on me, like you know what I mean, Like I'm
all set like not that anything. And and and by
the way, there are levels, right, I'm sure the level
of things that we're talking about don't match other levels
of what people have to hide, But there's just no
point and it was just so disrespectful on so many
(19:43):
levels to my favorite player of all time. And this
is an emotional take. Kobe would if he were here
and anybody said anything of that nature, if he's watching
from heaven or wherever he may be, wherever people think
he may be, who knows, whatever, My point being is
that he would be like, is this what we're doing?
Is is this the level that we've devolved to that
you all are out here there? And by the way,
(20:04):
he's had some you know, may he recipes, he had
some moments where I'm sure he wished he could take
things back, things that he had said. But at the
end of the day, we just don't need to get
into that game. And then now we find ourselves. Now
we find ourselves in this moment where and I think
maybe did the NBA need that storyline because there was
nothing happening? People are so interested now and who said
(20:26):
because let me tell you, it felt boring. It felt
like there was nothing to talk about. Now. I got
people like, well, what's going on with you know what
I mean? People not interested all of a sudden and
not wild it's wild to me.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
So this is a discussion that I had on YouTube.
Is that?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And I see this a lot when it comes to
wider discussion about what we consume.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
As a public.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Everybody out here likes to act like or pretend like
they all watching PBS all the time.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
We all out here.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Watching documentaries and only eyebrow entertainment. It's like people, y'all
live for the mess and I wish y'all stop lying
and saying we just want to hear about basketball. If
you wanted to just hear about basketball.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Steven A. Smith wouldn't exist.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And it's like, not on this status level. And I
find this especially true among male sports fans who act
like Dane as messy as everybody else. I'm like, y'all
be messy. Okay, let's see you know. I quickly brought
(21:33):
up as this was going back and forth, that conversation
we were having about the w NBA when it came
to Caitlin Clark and pettiness, all these male sports broadcasting
y'all women solf, petty, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I rest my case. That's all I got to say.
You're on her as you're on her.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
She rests her case. You're on her. You ain't ever
lie friend.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Exhibit abcd E mg h ijk elemental.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Right there, I say, look, this is gonna be wildly
unpoppy there. Men are the messiest. They love the mess.
They stay in the mess. You and I on some
private group text talked about the biggest gossips. We know
it's a.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Man, ain't it.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
It's like, what what?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
What?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
What are we doing here? We're gonna take a quick
break because we have to pay some bills. We'll be
right back in just a few moments. You bring up
Caitlin Clark, which brings me to my next topic, which
is great. It's almost as if we practice this. I
(22:47):
had today released on my podcast. I I this this
podcast that I most recently dropped. I just wanted to
give a little love, uh to Paige Becker's and we
have talked about page you know, on camera, off camera,
her skill set, the season that she was able to
have this year, her re entry, if you will, back
(23:09):
into the stratosphere of being one of the greatest players
in college in college ball after she was injured, because
it took some time for her to come back. So
there are two things that I'm thinking that are great here. One.
I get encouraged when I think about how I've watched
her story take shape and how it ultimately ended in
terms of her college career winning a championship, because I
(23:31):
was really really sad for Juju. It really bummed me out.
I was really disheartened at the fact that she had
tour a cl and I'm like, good grief, how long
is that going to take? Two seasons? But we've seen,
We've seen and living proof someone who was badly injured
came back, found their way, won a championship, and did
great things for college ball women's sports in general. I
(23:54):
hope the same is true for Juju because we saw
it with Pagebeckers. But I talked about just her background.
I don't think a lot of people knew who she
was or how she was raised, and just let's just
take a moment to talk about. To me, what I
see is someone who did not receive the same amount
of tension as a Caitlyn Clark did. And now there
(24:16):
are these conversations about the reason why she didn't receive
she being Pagebeckers didn't receive the same amount of tension
that Caitlyn Clark did. Was one, Kaitlyn Clark is a
better player. That's the first thing that people are saying.
And then the second thing is there's a group of
people who were saying because her bonus mom, her stepmom,
whatever you would like to call it, is black. And
(24:37):
she was very well aware or very familiar with the
black community and always spoke up for black women, that
the media decided to sideline her. What say you, Jamal?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
First of all, we refer to her in our community
as Deaconesschers.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Okay, because Page be preaching she do to be governed
with that guy. She tell you where you hello?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Because she was like, over here we serve. Our strength
is in the Lord. I was like, go ahead, over here,
our strengthens.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Page is like Marvin saff You know what I'm saying.
She coming, She is coming with it all right?
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Is she closing the doors? Is she closing the doors
of the church? Want to get closed?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
So I think Page will let you free.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
But yes, Paige, w I need to buy my old
my old school.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Christians know about that one.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
But but no, I do think some of it is
the fact that you know Paige as a freshman one
National Player of the Year, she was certainly on a
certain trajectory in terms of stardom in the league and
or in college ball rather and she you know, it
was derailed by injuries, as you pointed out, but I think,
(25:56):
you know, Kaitlyn clark playing styles matter to people. And
when you think about the game that today's fan is
accustomed to seeing, they are used to seeing a Steph
Curry esque game from guards, you know, launching the long shots.
You know, this high level of excitement that I think
Kitlyn Clark brought. Sports is about performance, but it is
(26:16):
also about narratives. I think that there was an underdog
element to Kitlyn Clark, even though she was a five
star recruit. I mean like she was somebody that a
lot of schools wanted, Okay, and she chose to go
to Iowa, and I think for a lot of people
that mattered the fact that Iowa, though they do have
a women's basketball legacy, it's not the traditional one that
we're accustomed to hearing about.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
So she's paid for a school that.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Is not regularly regularly on the women's college basketball map.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
People look at Yukon as they should. It's true blue blood.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
They just won a twelfth championship. So there's this expectation
that anybody there is great. So to some degree, the
greatness of when you're playing for Yukon is frankly probably
looked at as water is wet. I don't think it's
as I don't think it's it's celebrated, but not in
not like a novelty. Caitlin Clark has been treated like
a novelty, and so she has a different narrative than
(27:10):
Paige Beckers. Now is there something to this fact that
Paige Becker's very early when she received an sp she
made that a tribute to black women and about how
she has learned from them about how they deserve more attention.
She understood the roots of the game, and there we
(27:32):
would be lying to ourselves if we said, in our
very racialized society that these alliances don't impact how.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
People see people.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And I think you can tell in the way Page
plays the game, in her demeanor, the fact that, as
you pointed out, she has a black step mother, black
step brothers, that that in itself for some people, not
saying everybody, because people get all crazy and think I'm
saying this and totality is that for some people.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
That was.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I don't want to say disqualifying, but they were like, eh,
I don't know, I feel about that, right, And so
I do think there's some of that that is there,
But I also believe that this is mostly about different
playing styles and people have tried to sort of compare
(28:27):
them and I was like, they're just even though they
both are guards, they're just they're very different in terms
of what their physical gifts are, what their basketball gifts
actually are, and so so yeah, I mean, I think
it was a lot of it was a mixture of
those elements.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
But the overwhelming, the overwhelming thought from if I can,
if I can, I don't know suggest what you're saying
is that Caitlin has a much more electric playing style
that makes people want to that makes her more mainstream friendly.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I don't know, Yeah, And I think that's correct. I
think it does make her more mainstream friendly. And this
is not and this is not a criticism.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Of Caitlyn Clark.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
She plays how she plays, and I think with her
representing Iowa, that's another big part.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
This is Middle.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
America and there is a level of fixation on who
Middical America is. There's a level of sort of quaintness
and you know that's real America, that sort of thing,
that kind of engine that is behind Caitlyn Clark in
a very different way. But I think to some degree
(29:36):
we said this about Juju as well. You know, prior
to her injury, I mean, the scoring pace that she
was on is that she would be threatening that all
time scoring record. I mean, she broke Kaitlyn color Clark's
freshman scoring record already, and so this was just her
second season and she was THEMN near average thirty a game.
I don't know if she would have gotten there, but
she would have come well within reach to the point
(29:57):
where it might have been a real pursuit. And a
lot of us were wondering, like, well, when Juju gets close,
if she's with an earshot, if it looks like she
might break this record, will there be the same level
of media attention?
Speaker 3 (30:09):
And there won't be.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
And I knew that there wouldn't be, even though Juju
is a star and you already know how La treats,
you know, her brilliance is like she got celebrities at
her game all the time, right, Like this is this
is not new, This is not a new space for
Juju to be in. But I do think what does
often happen? And people can debate me. I'm sure they will.
(30:33):
I'm sure they'll call me all the usual names they
call me.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
But the kind important.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I gotta tell myself this you is implant is.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
But the reality is that when it comes to sports,
and especially when it comes to back basketball, I think
that there is sometimes a well, a good black player
is supposed to play like that, like you know. What
I'm saying is that the part of the net we.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Have a novelty element in us.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
And that's as I say, all players like of course
everybody loves Cheryl Miller.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I could go through maya more people appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That I'm not saying that they didn't, But I do
think that there are different expectations for great black players,
and there are when we have someone white who is
also great.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
There's a different kind of fixation with white players.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Because even though in women's college basketball, I don't think
black players make up the majority of women's college basketball.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
They don't.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I think that's it's just under yeah, there's just under
fifty percent. So even though we have seen white girls
dominate before and they have received the justified attention, there
is a little extra put on it because there is
this idea that this is a space where black athletes dominate.
So if a white girl is able to dominate in
(31:59):
this space, that is special, that is different. And I
think the public has to be honest about sometimes how
they see and kind of play into these racial narratives,
you know, So we just have to be honest about it.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, I do believe, and I don't think it's necessarily
because she she being Pagebeckers. Okay, So what I want
to just make sure I'm digesting what you're saying. Where
Kaitlyn's entire origin story is very Middle America, and in
it was very mainstream in terms of how they can
(32:38):
get on board the way she plays the game, where
she comes from her being a Catholic, a heterosexual, to
our knowledge, white woman out here living her life doing
the things that she wants to do playing basketball. Not
that that has never happened before, but it was the
way in which she was playing basketball. But I also
believe that the Angel Reson narrative also helped, not that
it propelled to.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
The next I didn't mean to dismiss that part, and
you're correct, and I it wasn't She got a rival,
and I would say, And it was funny because, like
I recently had the same conversation prior to her injury
about Juju about how like Juju really needs a rival, right.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And people have such back on that. Like I was
on a just side note, I did the podcast with
Tarika and Cheryl Swoops, the Great Cheryl Swoops, and they
were like, no, I don't think so. They they disagreed,
and I was like, I think Juju needs a rival
to make the story interesting. And her rival isn't Paige Becker's,
but she needed a rival, or she needs one. I think, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
I mean, look, we saw this.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Maybe it didn't blast off to the degree obviously it
didn't of Angel Reese, but when Paige and Caitlin met
each other last year in the NCAA tournament that did
record numbers too. A lot of it is because people
are like, ooh, I mean you know again, be honest,
it was like, oh, this was the original white girl
four years ago.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Here's the new white girl. We got.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
We got us ourselves a battle, right, And so I
think these narratives do sell, you know, games, like part
of the reason why even though we knew the championship
game between South Carolina and Yukon wasn't gonna be what
it was last year. But it's a great number of
absent of Caitlin Clark because you have the narrative of
(34:20):
Dawn Stay representing sort of the new Yukon if you will,
you know, with the number of championships she's won and
Yukon trying to get back. Like people were loving that
narrative right or even last year when it was Caitlin
Clark against an undefeated South Carolina team like that was
something juicy. Like people dig into those kind of narratives,
(34:41):
So you need they'd like to see athletes and teams
that people love. They love to see them go against
some level of inertia. They love this, like we need
to see the athlete get to the mountaintop and they
gotta climb up hill and they gotta walk through snow
and they got to get it out the mud and
they gotta finally get there.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
And it makes us appreciate their journeys so much more.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
So, Yeah, we kind of need to see that. So
to your point, Caitlin Clark was putting up Hella numbers
freshman year, Hella numbers sophomore year, but the point of
explosion was Angel Reeves taught her, and then then suddenly
every single game needs two play now leading into the
(35:21):
W A B A became prime time appointment doing.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
And to your point, you believe if Juju when she
comes back, had had a rival that met her at
that same level, that would provide a much more explosive
storyline around who Juju is and whomever that ex player
would be.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yes, I do, and it helps if it's some spice
to it, you know, I'm saying it helps, Like if
it's because she's like a little elbow, yeah, it helps.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Juju's very very mid like you don't see she displays
the game. It's that one thing I do what I
what I see in her. I also saw in Caitlin
Clark as a college player, was like I trash talk,
but I really am here just the ball, Like I'm
just here to play that other stuff I'm not really
consumed with. But I'm gonna let you know I'm better
than you. Like when we went to the UCLA and
(36:12):
USC game that I got us court side tickets to
that you totally decided where you want to just speak
to everybody on the USC side, even though U c
l A had provided youre UCLA had provided you with
said tickets through wah and you walking up there talking
to USC people. I wouldn't let y'all know. I had
to pull.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I had to, I had to pull my girls.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I was like, you, really, you've been real disrespectful. You
treat your lady wrong. Right now. If we was in
a relationship, Jamil, it'd be over you lucky, you married broke.
I would have broke up with you. You lucky because
you you did your girl dirty.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
But Friday night I got to fight the I love to.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You every night. But what I what I realized was
that when we were clearly, as in UCLA, going to
lose the game, juju let us know. She let all
the fans know as we were yelling and screams shell,
I'm gonna go to this side right here, and let
y'all know y'all lost ball this way. She was like
ball this way. I was like, gotcha, I hear you.
We lost. And I love that because it was such
a quiet confidence that I also think Caitlin plays with. However, However,
(37:13):
I will say this, you talk about that inertia, what
Paige Becker's in Yukon did was very special, But did
you notice the way those girls was playing? And I
am old enough to remember when Gino Arima, the great
Gino Arima, who now has twelve championships, jumped on a
microphone after don Staley and Crewe beat down his team
(37:35):
and said, I don't know what that was. That wasn't basketball,
referring to the fact that Don Staley and her players
played too tough, too aggressive. It was some sort of
basketball that this legend in Gino Arima was unfamiliar with,
and he couldn't understand what the game was doing. Fast
forward to twenty twenty four in Tampa. I watched them
(37:57):
girls get after it. His team, led by his pagebackers.
Those girls was playing the most aggressive ball that I
have ever seen Yukon play within the last few years,
and it won them that chip. And it's so interesting
how he complained about don Staley and Crewe and the
way her team played, but he definitely took a page
out of her book to learn how to win.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, I mean again, this is part of that mountaintop,
that climb uphill that we see. I mean, it's kind
of weird to look at Yukon and any kind of
underdog role given what their history is. But they came
out there and played like they had something to lose.
I mean, not that they have something to lose, but
they something to prove. Excuse me, they came out there
like they had something to prove. They wanted to prove
(38:38):
we could be physical, we could be tough, and they
were playing with an edge like we ain't going home
without this championship period.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
And you could tell that from the start of the game.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And I've never seen a Don Staley coach team or
it's been a long time I'll say long team say never.
It's been a very long time since I've seen a
Don Staley team kind of shook.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
They were shook, they were.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Discombobulated, they didn't know, they had no answer for anything.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
You kind did asy fudd.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
She came out there with bad intentions. Like the whole game,
I was like, Oh, this one is not.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Playing you know what I'm saying. She spent so.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, I mean she she was incredible, and as was
Sarah Strong.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Obviously who Alison Feaster, that's her daughter, which I had
no idea this just standing, Oh mom, is Alison Feaster
with the Celtics. Did you know that? No, you didn't
see that post.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
She was like, I missed it.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I was like, you raised a special one. She is special,
but going so, let me let.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Me tell you.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I remember Alisond feastera in college when she I remember
her when she played in college and her team she
played for Harvard. I believe right, and she I believe
it's I'm pretty sure it's still true. The only time
in the men's and women's tournament was team be to one.
They'd be number one Stanford and Stanford had some injuries.
That was you know, they were a little depleted for sure,
(40:07):
but like nobody thought that they were gonna beat Stanford.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
And by the way, she still has a post successful career.
They show pictures of her when she was playing in
the league and she was playing college ball with her daughter,
and I was like, her daughter who we are now watching.
And then at the end of the championship game when
they went to Sarah Seawan, they have some comments. She
was just like and I just you know, we did
what we had to do. I was like, oh, she
about her business. I'm a woman. A few words, I'm
(40:31):
not about to be up here, and just like I
just want to play. She's just a freshman. It was
so it was special. It's just it's a very special
time in women's sports, and I hope everyone can connect
the dots and see the storylines and understand where we
were and where we are and what is to come.
I think that I was. I was genuinely disappointed and
said my team did not win, but I was glad
(40:52):
that they got the breaks beat off of them by
the team that ultimately became the champion. So maybe maybe
you saw them do it to somebody else. Now, I
was like, Okay, so that's just what they came to do.
You're absolutely right. And they didn't cut They didn't cut
down the nets during the Elite Eight because they said
that's not what they came to celebrate. And they waited.
I remember that was one big thing. They were like,
you didn't cut down the nets like everybody else did
when you made it to the final four. They were like,
(41:13):
this is not the one or waiting for the one,
and they did have something to prove, and I felt
like it was a very special storyline for page. Becker's
shout out to UCLA. Though We're gonna take a quick
break because we have to pay some bills. We'll be
right back in just a few moments. UCLA, let's talk
(41:37):
about them for a minute. Corey Corey Close is the coach.
Say it three times fast. She's been at that program.
She's taken that program to the final four or four times.
She's probably the longest tenured coach that they've had. And
I just want to say, playing in Westwood under the
shadow of John Wooden, it's not easy to do one,
(41:58):
even if you are at head of the men's program,
right but being head of the women's program, you have
always been the afterthought the other. And for her to
really figure it out, because I think she had a
lot of pressure on her this year to be popular,
to do more social media, to do all the things
that now don't really include coaching, which is why this
is a young man and young women's game. Coaches are
(42:20):
jumping out of this league because are out of college ball,
because it's so difficult to coach. You are recruiting your
players consistently while they're playing on the roster. You know,
right now, we've seen it a few teams with it.
No one's coming back an entire roster. Notre Dame. Maybe
they have two returning players at Notre Dame women's basketball
players are leaving and they're going to other places because
(42:43):
they want more money, they want more attention, they want
more social media, right, and it's just hard to keep
the main thing the main thing. So I take a
few minutes out to say to coach Close, who's figuring
it out? Because she's an old school coach, right, she's
her job is changing right before her eyes, much like
our job is changing right before our eyes, and we're
learning to figure it out in real time. So love
(43:03):
to her, Love to my bruins. Tough, tough loss. I
was very disappointed, but I thank you Jamal for being
some sort of support with your trade.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Did support you all?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Remember that said you went over there to hug you
ju or whatever.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, the the USC, they looked out when State came
to play and we got the breaks beat off us
and no one. It was actually somewhat of a close game,
but a little bit of a close game. But uh no, listen,
I UCLA has a lot to be proud of this season,
and now this is part of their journey because I
(43:38):
I think you guys got everybody coming back just about yeah,
you get just you got just about everybody coming back.
They're not gonna forget this experience, and I think that's
a good thing. Yeah, now they know what it feels like.
And now you know they what you guys were number
one this season. I mean you you checked a lot
of milestones and to me, where you really showed your
(44:01):
character because after that game we went to where you
all got the breaks, reet off you by USC.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
You come back in the Big.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Ten tournament and you return to favor and when you
all played them that second played them again, I should
say that third time it would be you can't. Y'all
came out there with bad attentions and I just like
to see that. To me, Lauren, look, Laura Betts should
touch the ball seventy two times a game like she's
just absolutely should you see how you how South Carolina
(44:29):
used Carmela Cardosa.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
They need to do that with Laura Bett's.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's like everything And I'm not saying that they don't,
but there are definitely times and stretches in the game.
I greet forget about her. I'm like, yo, she needs
to be out there damn near averaging forty.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Also, though she has the big woman problem, the big
girl problem, the shock problem that the refs aren't calling,
they're they're dragging her. Did they triple team in her?
They doing all the things that she doesn't get a
lot of calls. She definitely didn't get a lot of
calls in that final four game against Connecticut, and they
were playing very aggressive, very physically, which is what they
should do, very physical. But I look, I get it she.
I think if I, you know, everybody's a coach, a
(45:04):
Monday morning quarterback, I think that it's just the toughness.
It's just that mental fortitude that that that switch that
needs to be turned on. Like they they're going to double,
they're going to triple you. You're not going to get
the call. You got to get back on defense. You're
not gonna make the shot. You got to get back
on defense. You got to bully your way in there,
you know. And I think I think that bully mentality helps,
Like you know, I you know, I'll take the page
(45:24):
out of our art. We just talked about our colleague
Stephen A. Smith. He would always be like, y'all need
a goon, y'all need somebody to give away five files,
y'all need a goon. And I was like we need
a goon. We need to We need a goon, and
for lack of a better term, that's what we need.
So shout out to UCLA. Very proud of y'all. Positions changing.
(45:46):
We are our last topic because we don't hit fifteen
of them. Positions changing as a journalist, and I've had
this conversation with fellow journalist Kelly Carter and other people
in the world. Shout out to our girl, Kelly, your
best friend, our job as journal as a journalist, it's changing.
It doesn't mean the foundation of what we do has changed.
Like we are obligated to speak truth to power. We
(46:09):
are obligated to be truthful. But the medium in which
we are doing it, or that we're allowed to do
it on for that matter, seems to be going away.
Legacy media seems to be falling apart left and right.
I don't think legacy media will last. I don't know.
I don't want to be destructive, but five years I'd
be surprised to see where legacy media is in five years,
(46:31):
more specifically, black legendary. You know, anchors and analysts who
do news, not necessarily sports, we're seeing them, you know,
we're seeing we're seeing what happens when you speak truth
to power on a legacy outlet like an MSNBC. Our
friend Joy Read was fired for or let go rather
(46:52):
for whatever reasons. Right, you can name a list before that.
It was Don Lemon, and we can go on and
go on and go on. Where do you see journalism
and legacy media in the next few years?
Speaker 3 (47:05):
So I do agree.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
I agree with you that legacy media has a major problem,
you know, especially, I think there's always going to be
a certain amount of people who do watch legacy media, like,
because you know, as much as people watch things on
their phone, there is a huge contingent of people who
do not actually like to watch things on their phone,
who prefer still that big, flat, scaring TV and being
able to see it, and so just the comfort of
(47:28):
being able to turn into CNN or MSNBC or even
local moves, right, Like, that's a part of legacy media.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
So I think there's going to always be an audience there.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
It's just that the audience is being is getting smaller
and right now, I think the move for most of
us who come from legacy media backgrounds is to do
exactly what Don Lemon has done. Yeah, is to do
what some of these other conservatives have done, Megan Kelly,
all of those they've gone independent, that's what they've done.
(47:56):
And you know, I certainly have redirect did a lot
of my focus and attention to my YouTube channel.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
And it is because.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
That has probably in terms of monetizing, that's probably the
best model.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Is why a lot of these same people are on substack.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
It's like, now, if you have been in a position
to actually build an audience through like a cmdia, an
audience that you can take with you wherever you go,
then you then have an opportunity to monetize the people
that mess with you.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
And so like that's where it's going.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
It's like we're going to all just be sort of
independent companies that we're providing a service to people who
care about what we have to say, who care about
the kind of journalism that we care about and the
kind of reporting and all those other things.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
And it is a new model.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
As you said, the method which we gather information doesn't change,
but we're going to have to become today's journalist has
to be more business minded than probably journalism minded.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Scary to say, but it's true.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
In order for us to be able to stay in
this space.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
You look at what Roland Martin did. I think that's
probably going to be the model.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Maybe not creating an entire network as he has done,
but he created an independent platform for himself.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Yep. That is where we have to get to.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
That is what the head of the game, that's what
he was ahead of the game. And he's always like,
I did it first. We're like, you're right, but the first,
always the first. I agree with that, and we all thought, Okay,
that's not where we want to be because it required
a little more thought than we probably had the attention
to give. But now we are required to give it
attention and we have to learn it in real time,
(49:34):
in real time. How does that make you feel tired? Exhausted?
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yes, if I'm being one hundred percent, is tired is
how it makes me feel. But at the same time,
it's that I've we've had to think about it.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Over the course of our careers.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
We've seen our business change a lot, and we've had
to adapt every single time. When I first got to
the business, it was a panic button. The panic button
was already being hit because newspapers, while they were very profitable,
there was a lot of anxiety over whether or not
they would be able to maintain the level of incredible
(50:13):
profit margins they had been provided. There was this transitioning
happening where family owned media companies were then selling out
to corporations and so it was becoming more corporate owned
media instead of family owned media, and it was a
big difference in approach. And when it became more about
prioritizing profit, that's when you saw the cracks in journalism.
(50:37):
That's when they started. And then it just was accelerated,
probably every.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Three to five years.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
And when I got to ESPN, the newspaper culture i'd
been a part of was really on life support.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
And this is in two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Six, and so by the time I left ESPN, you
had local papers that were no longer printing every day
of the week. You had a whole bunch of things
that were happening everything, you know, getting rid of entire
copy a desk and editors and all the sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
And it used to.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Be that newspapers like the La Times, they covered everything.
They went to the you know, they still do do
the Olympics, but they went to cover major, big sporting
events that didn't always involve LA teams because they felt
like that was part of the coverage.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Now you read a lot of sports sections.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
It's wired copy right, and so our jobs are constantly changing.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
But the crazy party is our jobs are changing, our.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Business is shrinking, but the people need the information more
now than they ever have. This is about we have
to be in the mode of wartime journalism. We are
in wartime. We got to be about that, and so
we're just in a interesting crossroads. But people are going
to always need information. They canna always need people who
know not to gather it, put it into context, and
(51:53):
can bring some institutional knowledge to it.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Wartime journalism define that.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
So it's really easy to report under optimal conditions. It
reminds me of when I was in when I was
a sideline reporter for a college football season back in
I think this would have been twenty twelve, right, Very
easy to report when it's seventy eighty degrees and you
on the sidelines. So much difficult when the wind is
(52:21):
kicking your ass, your hair look a mess, and your
makeup is running because it is frigid conditions. But that
is when you really prove how much you love this
profession and the mission of it.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
And so right now, as there is an assault on history,
on truth.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
On the ethics that our profession was built on, is
when we need to stay on the strongest. We can't
be the ones capitulating in advance. It's never what this
was supposed to be about. Journalism from the very start
was always about disruption. And if you can't disrupt in wartime,
you can't be a journalist.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
It's just that simple.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
So we're in wartime right now, and we will be
under attack more than ever, and it'll be a government lad.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
Attack as it is.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
And so because of this is when I actually think
it's kind of a good thing that so many of
us are branching off and being independent, because I don't
know that we need the stress all the time we listen.
I love to consistent paycheck like everybody else when it
comes to legacy media, So I'm not denying that part.
But there's a level of stress in this time that
(53:28):
that's gonna come with that I think most of us
probably don't need.
Speaker 3 (53:32):
And so, yeah, we're gonna be exhausted.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yes, this new age is going to require us to
do more, to put out more content constantly feeding these
short attention spans with what we think is valuable information.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
But we got to be ready for this wartime.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Jamelle Hill has provided us with the ted talk. You take,
that you run with. That that was so encouraging to me,
Fran because I often say to myself, should I be
making candles now? Should I be putting flowers on bacon?
Should girl?
Speaker 3 (54:07):
The way these tarrors about to hit? I don't know,
could you?
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Because we're gonna all have to learn apparently to churn
butter and be snapping.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
Peas because apparently, because apparently so apparent.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Going back to they like, yeah, you're gonna have to
go through a little bit of paid I'm like, oh
my god, Am I gonna be washing clothes.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
At the river?
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Like yes, yes, get your washboard out. That's where we're head.
That is where we're headed. I'm gonna be Jesus help us.
Jamel Hill, you are wonderful. Your YouTube pages what so
people can go and listen to it.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
It's called very simple. It's Jamel Hill and.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Jamelill I T S I T S that's right. No apostrophy, okay,
mine is it's Carrie Champion. I'm sending people there as well,
because I just I'm trying to do what you're doing. Friend,
I'm learning these we just real aunties trying to go
on the live.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
Is this working?
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Is this yeah? Can y'all see?
Speaker 3 (55:00):
Yay?
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Right, hey, turn this on for your mama. Get this
right here.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Now that's how Don Living first started. And now he
just live everywhere. He live from the bathroom, he live
from a shoe box, he live walking down the street.
He live in the middle of the theater. I'm like, ah,
so you now you now you're millennial, Okay, DoD you
know from Baby Boom merchant, millennial and up here telling
us how to do it. All right, I got you.
I'll get there. I'll get there. Thank you so much
(55:28):
for being on Naked Sports. I appreciate you, my friend.
So I love you and I'll talk to you soon,
all right.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Naked Sports written and executive produced by me Carry Champion,
produced by Jockey's Thomas Sound Design, and mastered by Dwayne Crawford.
Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effects podcast
network in iHeartMedia.
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what
we've been trying to get to for almost thirty years.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Kamin Clark broke the all time single game assists record.
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. And each episode we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey, everybody, Welcome to Naked Sports.
(00:59):
Today's podcast asked, is with one of my faves, Jammel Hill.
No surprise there. But what was interesting was that I
called her and I said, I want to just do
a recap. I want to do a recap of the
Final Four, which is more about women's college basketball the
season at large. And I also because we haven't had
(01:22):
an opportunity to talk about this the way I wanted to.
I wanted to talk about steven A versus Lebron. It
may be old news, but the way in which I
wanted to discuss this with her was just about our
obligation as journalist. Oftentimes stephen A said something that I
thought was really interesting. Oftentimes journalists don't report everything that
(01:42):
they know, and they shouldn't. Sometimes there's just no benefit
to doing that. But the case is also true for
athletes who know things about journalists. Sometimes you know things
about people who cover you that you don't often talk
about as well. And to me, in today's age where
everybody wants information and everybody loves the mess, it's really
(02:06):
difficult not and sometimes not necessarily difficult, but it's really
hard not to get caught up in the mess because
it's so tempting to go there. It just is. So
we get into that conversation. But as we begin to
record this podcast, they fired the GM and the head
coach of the Denver Nuggets, and I was like, I
(02:28):
guess if we can't get along, everybody gotta go. Nobody's safe.
This is on the heels of the Memphis coach being fired,
Luca being traded, and my thought process was, we live
in a world today where nobody is safe. I'm talking
about your job, my job. As we can see, they're
coming for government jobs. I'm watching people who do what
I do for a living. If they go to if
(02:50):
they get too far into the DEI and the criticism
of the current administration, they're losing their jobs. And we
live in a world, quite frankly, where I just believe,
no matter what your profession is, nobody's safe. We have
the great Jamel Hill on the podcast and we begin
with a day of firings. Hope you enjoy Jamil, so
(03:13):
listen breaking news as we are recording this podcast. I
just want to get your first thoughts, first, blush thoughts.
The Dinner Nuggets have fired Mike Malone, just a couple
of years removed after he brought them a championship. Is
that too soon?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It feels a little premature, I'll say that especially.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I mean the playoffs are about to start.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And when it happened, I was actually texting with a
friend of mine who covers the league, and as soon
as it crossed, as soon as Sham's reported it or
as a Shams, I think it might be Shams. As
soon as he reported it, I texted my buddy and
I was just like, Yo, what's up with this? And
at least the little bit of insight he was able
to give me was there's always been beat between Mike
(03:56):
Malone and the GM Calvin Booth, So maybe it was
a situation.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, parents do this with siblings.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
It's like they're sick of y'all both fighting, so they're like, okay, both,
y'all on punishment. Since y'all can't figure out who's right
who's wrong, y'all can't get along, and instead of being
on punishment, it led to a permanent punishment that they
both got fired. So the GM and the coach both gone,
and apparently they had not spoken in some time and
their relationship was not very good. It just is the
(04:23):
timing of this is just so strange, because the playoffs
are about to start, and I realized lately the Nuggets
haven't played great, But it just seemed like y'all couldn't
wait a second, like maybe they just maybe they feel
like they have what they need right now in both
the players and the remaining coaches that are on the bench.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It had to be to the point where It was
catastrophic in the simple sense that they just could not bear.
They couldn't wait till the end of the season. They
couldn't wait for this playoff push because am I wrong
or the Nuggets they are in the playoffs? Are they not?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they're the playoffs and they're a
team I think. I mean, you have a cluster of
teams that are kind of right around the same level.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Some are separating themselves a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I think your Los Angeles Lakers are starting to separate
themselves a little bit. Oklahoma City and Houston I think
have sort of been separating themselves all season.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They have a longer track record with it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But you have a cluster teams that are around the
same and I think a lot of people circle Denver
as a potentially dangerous team because they have the experience
they have. You know, some would say the best player
in the world and Yokic, but it just seems strange.
But we've seen some of that during this NBA season.
I mean, Memphis fired their coach a couple of weeks ago,
so well, I guess everbody is like Craig got caught
(05:37):
steal in boxers, trying to build a clubhouse, so they
getting fired on the day off off.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
But this leads to a bigger issue that I wanted
to talk about, among various things. As we live in
this intersection of sports culture and politics, no one and
what I have found out, and this goes across our board,
all industries, but more specifically in the NBA sports, no
one is safe. Once Luca was traded, I was like, Oh,
(06:05):
ain't nobody safe?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We safe? We safe?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
We ain't safe because it just didn't make sense to me.
And I feel like right now, what we're seeing and
I could be taking two different instances, maybe three different instances,
and they're timing uh and making more out of it.
But it feels like to me that nothing is guaranteed
unless maybe your name is Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James. Right,
there are very few people who have played in this
(06:31):
league where I felt they were like, there's just no
way that could happen to me. Maybe she killed you.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
But even then, listen, what it uh? What's the old song?
These holes ain't loyal?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I mean, like it's just so loyal like old sauce.
This is sports.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Uh, this is a transactional business by nature is performance based,
and that in that performance doesn't always have to be
Your performance could actually be fine, but they have There's
always other factors that contribute to some of these, you know,
moves that are being made with Luca. I feel like
we still don't know the full story. I mean, there's
(07:11):
a lot of conspiracy theories that have floated around about
you know, ownership of wanting to build a new arena
with a casino, facing some political blockades there in Dallas,
and that was why they did it, Because this is
really about them trying to mastermind their way to Las
Vegas that we all know they want an NBA team,
(07:33):
Or is it about the fact that they felt giving
Luca the kind of money he's going to command was
a mistake because he is not the most conditioned athlete
to athlete at times, the discipline they're worried about, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Just sort of other factors.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I mean, I don't know that we'll ever get to
the bottom of that story. But yes, in sports, especially
as we see more and more money being in invested,
the salaries are rising, They're only going to get higher.
I think that's going to make people not as patient
and the demand of what that player or coach is
(08:11):
supposed to do is only going to go up. So
a lot of ownership groups are thinking a lot of
people in charge and decision makers there. I think their
thought process is not just what have you done for
me lately? I think it is like, if we don't
see an immediate ROI return on our investment you have here,
and however they're able to, you know, sort of put
(08:32):
what that investment is in perspective.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It's just it's the nature of the game now.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
And that's for everything. Though. I just feel like the world,
the businesses are changing right in front of our eyes.
Your position, where you thought was what your job was,
is something totally different. I have never seen more of
a hostage situation than Jason Kidds sitting with the GM
of the Dallas Mavericks pretending like he was all in
on this deal. I was just like, this is not happening.
(08:59):
Was it the G or the president? What's O boy's name? Uh?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Nico who I know?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And Nico's a good dude, man. I feel so bad
for him because he is just public enemy number one
in Dallas right now.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And speaking of ain safe, of course, he is right.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah he is.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And I'm sure he was well aware that this is
part of what comes with that job, is that you're
gonna sometimes make unpopular decisions. Didn't expect him to make
one this deeply unpopular, but hey, it is what it is.
And now the Dallas fans are going to have to
suffer through seeing the Lakers as they kind of feel
like they're rounding in the form.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And if the.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Lakers, if they make any kind of deep run in
the playoffs, man, those Mavericks fans are going to.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Be beyond them.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
They're already mad, right, they beyond They already upset it.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Then they got hit with the fact that I believe
ticket prices are going up next year. Man, they had
his fish creasing.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, yeah, that just isn't changing.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Time to be a Mavericks fan.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I cannot wait for the thirty for thirty. I can't
wait for the real story to come out. I you know,
one of the reasons why I wanted you on here
is because I I wanted to just talk about what
had been going on in our universe. And you and
I both worked with a gentleman by the name of
Stephen A. Smith, and I hosted a show. Oh god,
I know where this is going. Where is this going?
(10:18):
Where we go?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Where we want to ask me about this presidency?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Are you about to? Okay, go ahead, Carrie, ask your question.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Do you not want me to ask you a question?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Ask me?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You know, I don't. I'm scared I will all the smoke.
You know, go ahead, ask me, ask me.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So let's let's just take it a few a few
minutes back, a couple of weeks ago, well even a
few weeks ago. Steven A was getting into it with
this player because his name is Lebron James. Have you
heard of him?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I have, I'm familiar.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Okay, So Lebron James went up to steven A at
a game and basically say, I keep my son's name
out of your mouth, and Lebron walked away. What Lebron
did was very intentional because he did it while stephen
A was courtsied. On the day that his one hundred
million dollar deal was signed and delivered and made known
(11:14):
to the public. Stephen A was sitting next to the
president of wm E William Morris Endeavor agency. His agency
and some other well known notables were within earshot of
said don't keep my son's name out of your mouth,
back and forth. Steven A goes on TV, talks about
it the next day, says he doesn't want to address it.
(11:35):
We all know that's not true, but since it was
caught on camera, he thought he'd just go ahead and
let us in on it, you know. And it was
this back and forth, back and forth, back and forth,
and at the end of the day, somehow we got
into the conversation of whether or not Lebron James attended
Kobe Bryant's funeral, and you and I talked about that offline,
(11:58):
but for me, that got into some weird territory of disrespectful,
uncomfortable and why is this even relevant right now? How'd
you feel about I don't care about the back and
forth whether he was wrong or right. Stephen A's job
is to criticize, is to critique, is to analyze. He
(12:19):
gets paid to talk about people who play basketball, and
if Lebron James' son, Bronnie, wasn't playing, we also be it.
But then it went into whether or not Lebron was
a good father. But then it escalated into something I
think that both of these men are probably disappointed in themselves.
If you certainly, you know, if you take a look back,
I think they're probably both very disappointed in how they
handle this, you think, because.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I don't get that impression.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I gotta be honest, like, I think they're perfectly fine
with how they handle it.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Are you serious? I do, Like I don't. I don't
think they have any regrets.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I mean, certainly Lebron does it because as far as
he's concerned, he was just standing up.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
For his him and his ian mines Marc. He's concerned. Yeah,
that's that's how he sees That's how he saw.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That, and he's he's He repeated that when he went
on the Pat McAfee show.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
What I would say is.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I think once stephen A, I got uncomfortable, you know,
and and I this, and I approached this as a
career journalist, been in the game decades now, I'm old
and I just yeah, right, I was like, I'm old, same, same,
And I realize when you're not in the thick of it,
you probably have the benefit of being able to assess
(13:33):
it a little less emotionally because it's not my name
out there.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I'm not the one being confronted by NBA player.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So and I'm not going to pretend like I don't
have petty levers because there's some people that roll up
on me and I it might be about something, right,
So I understand that we all don't get the benefit
of reacting with our best, you know, sort of with
our best mature responses. I get that, But when he
brought up the pard, I was like, I don't know
(14:02):
if I could go there, and I don't know if
it was befitting of him to do that, because one,
you're talking about somebody who's no longer here. Two you're
also then we're getting into questions of character because him
calling him out about the funeral then is saying that
he wasn't there with d Wade's Hall of Fame announcement.
Let's be real, what that really was You basically saying
(14:23):
Lebron is.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
A phony and a shitty friend. That's what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
That's what you're telling people, right, So then we get
into a whole nother territory where you're coming at somebody
over how they have presented themselves and how they deal
with their personal relationships. And I would be wildly uncomfortable
going there. And I thought it was not a good
(14:46):
moment for Steven Asmith, like, I gotta be honest, I
didn't really And once he brought that up, then suddenly
the focus becomes, well did he go to the funeral?
And then we have this whole investigative Twitter detectives out
like everybody like did he?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
People pulling footage?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
You know, I saw this one piece of footage where
when Diana Tarassi when she.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Was Pablo finds it. Pablo, Yes, our former colleague Pablo
Torri went.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
He went all dateline on it, okay, And I'm like, man, like,
how did we kind of get here? And I guess
you know, I live in La, you're from La.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You know this the levels of grief people still feel about.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Kobe not being here. I was like, man, I just
I just would not have been comfortable going there. So
that everybody's different. I'm not here to judge anybody's professional ethics,
but I personally was not comfortable watching this all unfold.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I was not only was I uncomfortable when Pablo posted that,
I you know, and it's not for me to criticize
other colleagues. I just don't do it. I don't. I
don't think there's any any real gain and I've done
it several times, maybe three times in the past, and
I thought, well, maybe I should have thought twice about
what I said, but I immediately posted on that. I said, enough,
(16:09):
this man is dead. Let him rest in peace. This
has gone beyond what's going on with Steven aans And
and Lebron. You're talking about a grieving wife widow. You're
talking about kids who are very well aware of what's
being said about their father and and quite frankly, this
(16:30):
has nothing to do with where we started. The argument
has been lost. We've jumped the shark, as they say, like,
this is what is this we're talking about now? And
I know you're saying it's alluding to his character, but
I don't think and I said this on my show,
I don't think any one of them should play thee
I know who you are a game, I know what
you I know who people, I know what people think
(16:54):
about you game. Nobody is without some books, and no
one is perfect. So I don't want to know about
their personal lives. I don't want to know about their
character off camera or off court that should not be
made public knowledge. There is something about the level of
discretion that I think we all need to keep to
(17:16):
maintain some maintain some level of professionalism. And I was
getting uncomfortable. I was like, this is getting into territory
that might end up in a space where we know
too much about these men that we don't even need
to know about them. Does that make sense? And I
know that's so high brow because people live.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
No, I mean, but I'm not trying to go back.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I'm kind of with you because look, Harry, I mean,
if you and I wanted to tell it, we could
tell it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Yeah, I mean, if we wanted to tell it, we
could tell it.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Right. We just crossed my legs.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Now you get nervous. I'm like, we all have.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Something to say about everyone in this business, and there's
just no need. There's just no need.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
And it is it because I don't think any of
us would feel comfortable if that spotlight came in our direction, correct, right,
the real the one that's showing all the skeletal bones.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, and so the skeletal bones go ahead, doctor hill Wallace.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
No, we would not want that spotlight. And so.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
There was something that Stephen A said in one of
his many responses, and that is true. Is that a
lot of times us as journalists. We the things we
don't report, the things we don't say. It's significant because
there's a lot of stuff that we could say that
we do not say. And I think most of us
are mature enough to not say those things because we
(18:41):
know we're not perfect, and we know that a lot
of times while our professional careers, we may feel like, okay,
it would it would stand up to some scrutiny, but
we done all made some mistakes, all is, don't nobody
else know about?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yes, for sure?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And so because of that, yes, it is got to
be some honor among thieves. There is there got to
be some honor among thieves. It's gotta be we gotta
we gotta uphold certain tenets of his game.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
All right.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
And we can't be out here just wildly snitching on
focks like.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Hey, hey man, like you know that ain't cool.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
We can't be out here wildly snitching on folks because
it's not cool, because I don't want nobody to snitch
on me, like you know what I mean, Like I'm
all set like not that anything. And and and by
the way, there are levels, right, I'm sure the level
of things that we're talking about don't match other levels
of what people have to hide, But there's just no
point and it was just so disrespectful on so many
(19:43):
levels to my favorite player of all time. And this
is an emotional take. Kobe would if he were here
and anybody said anything of that nature, if he's watching
from heaven or wherever he may be, wherever people think
he may be, who knows, whatever, My point being is
that he would be like, is this what we're doing?
Is is this the level that we've devolved to that
you all are out here there? And by the way,
(20:04):
he's had some you know, may he recipes, he had
some moments where I'm sure he wished he could take
things back, things that he had said. But at the
end of the day, we just don't need to get
into that game. And then now we find ourselves. Now
we find ourselves in this moment where and I think
maybe did the NBA need that storyline because there was
nothing happening? People are so interested now and who said
(20:26):
because let me tell you, it felt boring. It felt
like there was nothing to talk about. Now. I got
people like, well, what's going on with you know what
I mean? People not interested all of a sudden and
not wild it's wild to me.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
So this is a discussion that I had on YouTube.
Is that?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And I see this a lot when it comes to
wider discussion about what we consume.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
As a public.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Everybody out here likes to act like or pretend like
they all watching PBS all the time.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
We all out here.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Watching documentaries and only eyebrow entertainment. It's like people, y'all
live for the mess and I wish y'all stop lying
and saying we just want to hear about basketball. If
you wanted to just hear about basketball.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Steven A. Smith wouldn't exist.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And it's like, not on this status level. And I
find this especially true among male sports fans who act
like Dane as messy as everybody else. I'm like, y'all
be messy. Okay, let's see you know. I quickly brought
(21:33):
up as this was going back and forth, that conversation
we were having about the w NBA when it came
to Caitlin Clark and pettiness, all these male sports broadcasting
y'all women solf, petty, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I rest my case. That's all I got to say.
You're on her as you're on her.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
She rests her case. You're on her. You ain't ever
lie friend.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Exhibit abcd E mg h ijk elemental.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Right there, I say, look, this is gonna be wildly
unpoppy there. Men are the messiest. They love the mess.
They stay in the mess. You and I on some
private group text talked about the biggest gossips. We know
it's a.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Man, ain't it.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
It's like, what what?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
What?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
What are we doing here? We're gonna take a quick
break because we have to pay some bills. We'll be
right back in just a few moments. You bring up
Caitlin Clark, which brings me to my next topic, which
is great. It's almost as if we practice this. I
(22:47):
had today released on my podcast. I I this this
podcast that I most recently dropped. I just wanted to
give a little love, uh to Paige Becker's and we
have talked about page you know, on camera, off camera,
her skill set, the season that she was able to
have this year, her re entry, if you will, back
(23:09):
into the stratosphere of being one of the greatest players
in college in college ball after she was injured, because
it took some time for her to come back. So
there are two things that I'm thinking that are great here. One.
I get encouraged when I think about how I've watched
her story take shape and how it ultimately ended in
terms of her college career winning a championship, because I
(23:31):
was really really sad for Juju. It really bummed me out.
I was really disheartened at the fact that she had
tour a cl and I'm like, good grief, how long
is that going to take? Two seasons? But we've seen,
We've seen and living proof someone who was badly injured
came back, found their way, won a championship, and did
great things for college ball women's sports in general. I
(23:54):
hope the same is true for Juju because we saw
it with Pagebeckers. But I talked about just her background.
I don't think a lot of people knew who she
was or how she was raised, and just let's just
take a moment to talk about. To me, what I
see is someone who did not receive the same amount
of tension as a Caitlyn Clark did. And now there
(24:16):
are these conversations about the reason why she didn't receive
she being Pagebeckers didn't receive the same amount of tension
that Caitlyn Clark did. Was one, Kaitlyn Clark is a
better player. That's the first thing that people are saying.
And then the second thing is there's a group of
people who were saying because her bonus mom, her stepmom,
whatever you would like to call it, is black. And
(24:37):
she was very well aware or very familiar with the
black community and always spoke up for black women, that
the media decided to sideline her. What say you, Jamal?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
First of all, we refer to her in our community
as Deaconesschers.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Okay, because Page be preaching she do to be governed
with that guy. She tell you where you hello?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Because she was like, over here we serve. Our strength
is in the Lord. I was like, go ahead, over here,
our strengthens.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Page is like Marvin saff You know what I'm saying.
She coming, She is coming with it all right?
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Is she closing the doors? Is she closing the doors
of the church? Want to get closed?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
So I think Page will let you free.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
But yes, Paige, w I need to buy my old
my old school.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Christians know about that one.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
But but no, I do think some of it is
the fact that you know Paige as a freshman one
National Player of the Year, she was certainly on a
certain trajectory in terms of stardom in the league and
or in college ball rather and she you know, it
was derailed by injuries, as you pointed out, but I think,
(25:56):
you know, Kaitlyn clark playing styles matter to people. And
when you think about the game that today's fan is
accustomed to seeing, they are used to seeing a Steph
Curry esque game from guards, you know, launching the long shots.
You know, this high level of excitement that I think
Kitlyn Clark brought. Sports is about performance, but it is
(26:16):
also about narratives. I think that there was an underdog
element to Kitlyn Clark, even though she was a five
star recruit. I mean like she was somebody that a
lot of schools wanted, Okay, and she chose to go
to Iowa, and I think for a lot of people
that mattered the fact that Iowa, though they do have
a women's basketball legacy, it's not the traditional one that
we're accustomed to hearing about.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
So she's paid for a school that.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Is not regularly regularly on the women's college basketball map.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
People look at Yukon as they should. It's true blue blood.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
They just won a twelfth championship. So there's this expectation
that anybody there is great. So to some degree, the
greatness of when you're playing for Yukon is frankly probably
looked at as water is wet. I don't think it's
as I don't think it's it's celebrated, but not in
not like a novelty. Caitlin Clark has been treated like
a novelty, and so she has a different narrative than
(27:10):
Paige Beckers. Now is there something to this fact that
Paige Becker's very early when she received an sp she
made that a tribute to black women and about how
she has learned from them about how they deserve more attention.
She understood the roots of the game, and there we
(27:32):
would be lying to ourselves if we said, in our
very racialized society that these alliances don't impact how.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
People see people.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And I think you can tell in the way Page
plays the game, in her demeanor, the fact that, as
you pointed out, she has a black step mother, black
step brothers, that that in itself for some people, not
saying everybody, because people get all crazy and think I'm
saying this and totality is that for some people.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
That was.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I don't want to say disqualifying, but they were like, eh,
I don't know, I feel about that, right, And so
I do think there's some of that that is there,
But I also believe that this is mostly about different
playing styles and people have tried to sort of compare
(28:27):
them and I was like, they're just even though they
both are guards, they're just they're very different in terms
of what their physical gifts are, what their basketball gifts
actually are, and so so yeah, I mean, I think
it was a lot of it was a mixture of
those elements.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
But the overwhelming, the overwhelming thought from if I can,
if I can, I don't know suggest what you're saying
is that Caitlin has a much more electric playing style
that makes people want to that makes her more mainstream friendly.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I don't know, Yeah, And I think that's correct. I
think it does make her more mainstream friendly. And this
is not and this is not a criticism.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Of Caitlyn Clark.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
She plays how she plays, and I think with her
representing Iowa, that's another big part.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
This is Middle.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
America and there is a level of fixation on who
Middical America is. There's a level of sort of quaintness
and you know that's real America, that sort of thing,
that kind of engine that is behind Caitlyn Clark in
a very different way. But I think to some degree
(29:36):
we said this about Juju as well. You know, prior
to her injury, I mean, the scoring pace that she
was on is that she would be threatening that all
time scoring record. I mean, she broke Kaitlyn color Clark's
freshman scoring record already, and so this was just her
second season and she was THEMN near average thirty a game.
I don't know if she would have gotten there, but
she would have come well within reach to the point
(29:57):
where it might have been a real pursuit. And a
lot of us were wondering, like, well, when Juju gets close,
if she's with an earshot, if it looks like she
might break this record, will there be the same level
of media attention?
Speaker 3 (30:09):
And there won't be.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
And I knew that there wouldn't be, even though Juju
is a star and you already know how La treats,
you know, her brilliance is like she got celebrities at
her game all the time, right, Like this is this
is not new, This is not a new space for
Juju to be in. But I do think what does
often happen? And people can debate me. I'm sure they will.
(30:33):
I'm sure they'll call me all the usual names they
call me.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
But the kind important.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I gotta tell myself this you is implant is.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
But the reality is that when it comes to sports,
and especially when it comes to back basketball, I think
that there is sometimes a well, a good black player
is supposed to play like that, like you know. What
I'm saying is that the part of the net we.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Have a novelty element in us.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
And that's as I say, all players like of course
everybody loves Cheryl Miller.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I could go through maya more people appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That I'm not saying that they didn't, But I do
think that there are different expectations for great black players,
and there are when we have someone white who is
also great.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
There's a different kind of fixation with white players.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Because even though in women's college basketball, I don't think
black players make up the majority of women's college basketball.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
They don't.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I think that's it's just under yeah, there's just under
fifty percent. So even though we have seen white girls
dominate before and they have received the justified attention, there
is a little extra put on it because there is
this idea that this is a space where black athletes dominate.
So if a white girl is able to dominate in
(31:59):
this space, that is special, that is different. And I
think the public has to be honest about sometimes how
they see and kind of play into these racial narratives,
you know, So we just have to be honest about it.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, I do believe, and I don't think it's necessarily
because she she being Pagebeckers. Okay, So what I want
to just make sure I'm digesting what you're saying. Where
Kaitlyn's entire origin story is very Middle America, and in
it was very mainstream in terms of how they can
(32:38):
get on board the way she plays the game, where
she comes from her being a Catholic, a heterosexual, to
our knowledge, white woman out here living her life doing
the things that she wants to do playing basketball. Not
that that has never happened before, but it was the
way in which she was playing basketball. But I also
believe that the Angel Reson narrative also helped, not that
it propelled to.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
The next I didn't mean to dismiss that part, and
you're correct, and I it wasn't She got a rival,
and I would say, And it was funny because, like
I recently had the same conversation prior to her injury
about Juju about how like Juju really needs a rival, right.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And people have such back on that. Like I was
on a just side note, I did the podcast with
Tarika and Cheryl Swoops, the Great Cheryl Swoops, and they
were like, no, I don't think so. They they disagreed,
and I was like, I think Juju needs a rival
to make the story interesting. And her rival isn't Paige Becker's,
but she needed a rival, or she needs one. I think, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
I mean, look, we saw this.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Maybe it didn't blast off to the degree obviously it
didn't of Angel Reese, but when Paige and Caitlin met
each other last year in the NCAA tournament that did
record numbers too. A lot of it is because people
are like, ooh, I mean you know again, be honest,
it was like, oh, this was the original white girl
four years ago.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Here's the new white girl. We got.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
We got us ourselves a battle, right, And so I
think these narratives do sell, you know, games, like part
of the reason why even though we knew the championship
game between South Carolina and Yukon wasn't gonna be what
it was last year. But it's a great number of
absent of Caitlin Clark because you have the narrative of
(34:20):
Dawn Stay representing sort of the new Yukon if you will,
you know, with the number of championships she's won and
Yukon trying to get back. Like people were loving that
narrative right or even last year when it was Caitlin
Clark against an undefeated South Carolina team like that was
something juicy. Like people dig into those kind of narratives,
(34:41):
So you need they'd like to see athletes and teams
that people love. They love to see them go against
some level of inertia. They love this, like we need
to see the athlete get to the mountaintop and they
gotta climb up hill and they gotta walk through snow
and they got to get it out the mud and
they gotta finally get there.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
And it makes us appreciate their journeys so much more.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
So, Yeah, we kind of need to see that. So
to your point, Caitlin Clark was putting up Hella numbers
freshman year, Hella numbers sophomore year, but the point of
explosion was Angel Reeves taught her, and then then suddenly
every single game needs two play now leading into the
(35:21):
W A B A became prime time appointment doing.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
And to your point, you believe if Juju when she
comes back, had had a rival that met her at
that same level, that would provide a much more explosive
storyline around who Juju is and whomever that ex player
would be.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yes, I do, and it helps if it's some spice
to it, you know, I'm saying it helps, Like if
it's because she's like a little elbow, yeah, it helps.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Juju's very very mid like you don't see she displays
the game. It's that one thing I do what I
what I see in her. I also saw in Caitlin
Clark as a college player, was like I trash talk,
but I really am here just the ball, Like I'm
just here to play that other stuff I'm not really
consumed with. But I'm gonna let you know I'm better
than you. Like when we went to the UCLA and
(36:12):
USC game that I got us court side tickets to
that you totally decided where you want to just speak
to everybody on the USC side, even though U c
l A had provided youre UCLA had provided you with
said tickets through wah and you walking up there talking
to USC people. I wouldn't let y'all know. I had
to pull.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I had to, I had to pull my girls.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I was like, you, really, you've been real disrespectful. You
treat your lady wrong. Right now. If we was in
a relationship, Jamil, it'd be over you lucky, you married broke.
I would have broke up with you. You lucky because
you you did your girl dirty.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
But Friday night I got to fight the I love to.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You every night. But what I what I realized was
that when we were clearly, as in UCLA, going to
lose the game, juju let us know. She let all
the fans know as we were yelling and screams shell,
I'm gonna go to this side right here, and let
y'all know y'all lost ball this way. She was like
ball this way. I was like, gotcha, I hear you.
We lost. And I love that because it was such
a quiet confidence that I also think Caitlin plays with. However, However,
(37:13):
I will say this, you talk about that inertia, what
Paige Becker's in Yukon did was very special, But did
you notice the way those girls was playing? And I
am old enough to remember when Gino Arima, the great
Gino Arima, who now has twelve championships, jumped on a
microphone after don Staley and Crewe beat down his team
(37:35):
and said, I don't know what that was. That wasn't basketball,
referring to the fact that Don Staley and her players
played too tough, too aggressive. It was some sort of
basketball that this legend in Gino Arima was unfamiliar with,
and he couldn't understand what the game was doing. Fast
forward to twenty twenty four in Tampa. I watched them
(37:57):
girls get after it. His team, led by his pagebackers.
Those girls was playing the most aggressive ball that I
have ever seen Yukon play within the last few years,
and it won them that chip. And it's so interesting
how he complained about don Staley and Crewe and the
way her team played, but he definitely took a page
out of her book to learn how to win.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, I mean again, this is part of that mountaintop,
that climb uphill that we see. I mean, it's kind
of weird to look at Yukon and any kind of
underdog role given what their history is. But they came
out there and played like they had something to lose.
I mean, not that they have something to lose, but
they something to prove. Excuse me, they came out there
like they had something to prove. They wanted to prove
(38:38):
we could be physical, we could be tough, and they
were playing with an edge like we ain't going home
without this championship period.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
And you could tell that from the start of the game.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And I've never seen a Don Staley coach team or
it's been a long time I'll say long team say never.
It's been a very long time since I've seen a
Don Staley team kind of shook.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
They were shook, they were.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Discombobulated, they didn't know, they had no answer for anything.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
You kind did asy fudd.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
She came out there with bad intentions. Like the whole game,
I was like, Oh, this one is not.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Playing you know what I'm saying. She spent so.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, I mean she she was incredible, and as was
Sarah Strong.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Obviously who Alison Feaster, that's her daughter, which I had
no idea this just standing, Oh mom, is Alison Feaster
with the Celtics. Did you know that? No, you didn't
see that post.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
She was like, I missed it.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I was like, you raised a special one. She is special,
but going so, let me let.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Me tell you.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I remember Alisond feastera in college when she I remember
her when she played in college and her team she
played for Harvard. I believe right, and she I believe
it's I'm pretty sure it's still true. The only time
in the men's and women's tournament was team be to one.
They'd be number one Stanford and Stanford had some injuries.
That was you know, they were a little depleted for sure,
(40:07):
but like nobody thought that they were gonna beat Stanford.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
And by the way, she still has a post successful career.
They show pictures of her when she was playing in
the league and she was playing college ball with her daughter,
and I was like, her daughter who we are now watching.
And then at the end of the championship game when
they went to Sarah Seawan, they have some comments. She
was just like and I just you know, we did
what we had to do. I was like, oh, she
about her business. I'm a woman. A few words, I'm
(40:31):
not about to be up here, and just like I
just want to play. She's just a freshman. It was
so it was special. It's just it's a very special
time in women's sports, and I hope everyone can connect
the dots and see the storylines and understand where we
were and where we are and what is to come.
I think that I was. I was genuinely disappointed and
said my team did not win, but I was glad
(40:52):
that they got the breaks beat off of them by
the team that ultimately became the champion. So maybe maybe
you saw them do it to somebody else. Now, I
was like, Okay, so that's just what they came to do.
You're absolutely right. And they didn't cut They didn't cut
down the nets during the Elite Eight because they said
that's not what they came to celebrate. And they waited.
I remember that was one big thing. They were like,
you didn't cut down the nets like everybody else did
when you made it to the final four. They were like,
(41:13):
this is not the one or waiting for the one,
and they did have something to prove, and I felt
like it was a very special storyline for page. Becker's
shout out to UCLA. Though We're gonna take a quick
break because we have to pay some bills. We'll be
right back in just a few moments. UCLA, let's talk
(41:37):
about them for a minute. Corey Corey Close is the coach.
Say it three times fast. She's been at that program.
She's taken that program to the final four or four times.
She's probably the longest tenured coach that they've had. And
I just want to say, playing in Westwood under the
shadow of John Wooden, it's not easy to do one,
(41:58):
even if you are at head of the men's program,
right but being head of the women's program, you have
always been the afterthought the other. And for her to
really figure it out, because I think she had a
lot of pressure on her this year to be popular,
to do more social media, to do all the things
that now don't really include coaching, which is why this
is a young man and young women's game. Coaches are
(42:20):
jumping out of this league because are out of college ball,
because it's so difficult to coach. You are recruiting your
players consistently while they're playing on the roster. You know,
right now, we've seen it a few teams with it.
No one's coming back an entire roster. Notre Dame. Maybe
they have two returning players at Notre Dame women's basketball
players are leaving and they're going to other places because
(42:43):
they want more money, they want more attention, they want
more social media, right, and it's just hard to keep
the main thing the main thing. So I take a
few minutes out to say to coach Close, who's figuring
it out? Because she's an old school coach, right, she's
her job is changing right before her eyes, much like
our job is changing right before our eyes, and we're
learning to figure it out in real time. So love
(43:03):
to her, Love to my bruins. Tough, tough loss. I
was very disappointed, but I thank you Jamal for being
some sort of support with your trade.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Did support you all?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Remember that said you went over there to hug you
ju or whatever.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, the the USC, they looked out when State came
to play and we got the breaks beat off us
and no one. It was actually somewhat of a close game,
but a little bit of a close game. But uh no, listen,
I UCLA has a lot to be proud of this season,
and now this is part of their journey because I
(43:38):
I think you guys got everybody coming back just about yeah,
you get just you got just about everybody coming back.
They're not gonna forget this experience, and I think that's
a good thing. Yeah, now they know what it feels like.
And now you know they what you guys were number
one this season. I mean you you checked a lot
of milestones and to me, where you really showed your
(44:01):
character because after that game we went to where you
all got the breaks, reet off you by USC.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
You come back in the Big.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Ten tournament and you return to favor and when you
all played them that second played them again, I should
say that third time it would be you can't. Y'all
came out there with bad attentions and I just like
to see that. To me, Lauren, look, Laura Betts should
touch the ball seventy two times a game like she's
just absolutely should you see how you how South Carolina
(44:29):
used Carmela Cardosa.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
They need to do that with Laura Bett's.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's like everything And I'm not saying that they don't,
but there are definitely times and stretches in the game.
I greet forget about her. I'm like, yo, she needs
to be out there damn near averaging forty.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Also, though she has the big woman problem, the big
girl problem, the shock problem that the refs aren't calling,
they're they're dragging her. Did they triple team in her?
They doing all the things that she doesn't get a
lot of calls. She definitely didn't get a lot of
calls in that final four game against Connecticut, and they
were playing very aggressive, very physically, which is what they
should do, very physical. But I look, I get it she.
I think if I, you know, everybody's a coach, a
(45:04):
Monday morning quarterback, I think that it's just the toughness.
It's just that mental fortitude that that that switch that
needs to be turned on. Like they they're going to double,
they're going to triple you. You're not going to get
the call. You got to get back on defense. You're
not gonna make the shot. You got to get back
on defense. You got to bully your way in there,
you know. And I think I think that bully mentality helps,
Like you know, I you know, I'll take the page
(45:24):
out of our art. We just talked about our colleague
Stephen A. Smith. He would always be like, y'all need
a goon, y'all need somebody to give away five files,
y'all need a goon. And I was like we need
a goon. We need to We need a goon, and
for lack of a better term, that's what we need.
So shout out to UCLA. Very proud of y'all. Positions changing.
(45:46):
We are our last topic because we don't hit fifteen
of them. Positions changing as a journalist, and I've had
this conversation with fellow journalist Kelly Carter and other people
in the world. Shout out to our girl, Kelly, your
best friend, our job as journal as a journalist, it's changing.
It doesn't mean the foundation of what we do has changed.
Like we are obligated to speak truth to power. We
(46:09):
are obligated to be truthful. But the medium in which
we are doing it, or that we're allowed to do
it on for that matter, seems to be going away.
Legacy media seems to be falling apart left and right.
I don't think legacy media will last. I don't know.
I don't want to be destructive, but five years I'd
be surprised to see where legacy media is in five years,
(46:31):
more specifically, black legendary. You know, anchors and analysts who
do news, not necessarily sports, we're seeing them, you know,
we're seeing we're seeing what happens when you speak truth
to power on a legacy outlet like an MSNBC. Our
friend Joy Read was fired for or let go rather
(46:52):
for whatever reasons. Right, you can name a list before that.
It was Don Lemon, and we can go on and
go on and go on. Where do you see journalism
and legacy media in the next few years?
Speaker 3 (47:05):
So I do agree.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
I agree with you that legacy media has a major problem,
you know, especially, I think there's always going to be
a certain amount of people who do watch legacy media, like,
because you know, as much as people watch things on
their phone, there is a huge contingent of people who
do not actually like to watch things on their phone,
who prefer still that big, flat, scaring TV and being
able to see it, and so just the comfort of
(47:28):
being able to turn into CNN or MSNBC or even
local moves, right, Like, that's a part of legacy media.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
So I think there's going to always be an audience there.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
It's just that the audience is being is getting smaller
and right now, I think the move for most of
us who come from legacy media backgrounds is to do
exactly what Don Lemon has done. Yeah, is to do
what some of these other conservatives have done, Megan Kelly,
all of those they've gone independent, that's what they've done.
(47:56):
And you know, I certainly have redirect did a lot
of my focus and attention to my YouTube channel.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
And it is because.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
That has probably in terms of monetizing, that's probably the
best model.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Is why a lot of these same people are on substack.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
It's like, now, if you have been in a position
to actually build an audience through like a cmdia, an
audience that you can take with you wherever you go,
then you then have an opportunity to monetize the people
that mess with you.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
And so like that's where it's going.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
It's like we're going to all just be sort of
independent companies that we're providing a service to people who
care about what we have to say, who care about
the kind of journalism that we care about and the
kind of reporting and all those other things.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
And it is a new model.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
As you said, the method which we gather information doesn't change,
but we're going to have to become today's journalist has
to be more business minded than probably journalism minded.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Scary to say, but it's true.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
In order for us to be able to stay in
this space.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
You look at what Roland Martin did. I think that's
probably going to be the model.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Maybe not creating an entire network as he has done,
but he created an independent platform for himself.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Yep. That is where we have to get to.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
That is what the head of the game, that's what
he was ahead of the game. And he's always like,
I did it first. We're like, you're right, but the first,
always the first. I agree with that, and we all thought, Okay,
that's not where we want to be because it required
a little more thought than we probably had the attention
to give. But now we are required to give it
attention and we have to learn it in real time,
(49:34):
in real time. How does that make you feel tired? Exhausted?
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yes, if I'm being one hundred percent, is tired is
how it makes me feel. But at the same time,
it's that I've we've had to think about it.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Over the course of our careers.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
We've seen our business change a lot, and we've had
to adapt every single time. When I first got to
the business, it was a panic button. The panic button
was already being hit because newspapers, while they were very profitable,
there was a lot of anxiety over whether or not
they would be able to maintain the level of incredible
(50:13):
profit margins they had been provided. There was this transitioning
happening where family owned media companies were then selling out
to corporations and so it was becoming more corporate owned
media instead of family owned media, and it was a
big difference in approach. And when it became more about
prioritizing profit, that's when you saw the cracks in journalism.
(50:37):
That's when they started. And then it just was accelerated,
probably every.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Three to five years.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
And when I got to ESPN, the newspaper culture i'd
been a part of was really on life support.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
And this is in two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Six, and so by the time I left ESPN, you
had local papers that were no longer printing every day
of the week. You had a whole bunch of things
that were happening everything, you know, getting rid of entire
copy a desk and editors and all the sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
And it used to.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Be that newspapers like the La Times, they covered everything.
They went to the you know, they still do do
the Olympics, but they went to cover major, big sporting
events that didn't always involve LA teams because they felt
like that was part of the coverage.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Now you read a lot of sports sections.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
It's wired copy right, and so our jobs are constantly changing.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
But the crazy party is our jobs are changing, our.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Business is shrinking, but the people need the information more
now than they ever have. This is about we have
to be in the mode of wartime journalism. We are
in wartime. We got to be about that, and so
we're just in a interesting crossroads. But people are going
to always need information. They canna always need people who
know not to gather it, put it into context, and
(51:53):
can bring some institutional knowledge to it.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Wartime journalism define that.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
So it's really easy to report under optimal conditions. It
reminds me of when I was in when I was
a sideline reporter for a college football season back in
I think this would have been twenty twelve, right, Very
easy to report when it's seventy eighty degrees and you
on the sidelines. So much difficult when the wind is
(52:21):
kicking your ass, your hair look a mess, and your
makeup is running because it is frigid conditions. But that
is when you really prove how much you love this
profession and the mission of it.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
And so right now, as there is an assault on history,
on truth.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
On the ethics that our profession was built on, is
when we need to stay on the strongest. We can't
be the ones capitulating in advance. It's never what this
was supposed to be about. Journalism from the very start
was always about disruption. And if you can't disrupt in wartime,
you can't be a journalist.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
It's just that simple.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
So we're in wartime right now, and we will be
under attack more than ever, and it'll be a government lad.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
Attack as it is.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
And so because of this is when I actually think
it's kind of a good thing that so many of
us are branching off and being independent, because I don't
know that we need the stress all the time we listen.
I love to consistent paycheck like everybody else when it
comes to legacy media, So I'm not denying that part.
But there's a level of stress in this time that
(53:28):
that's gonna come with that I think most of us
probably don't need.
Speaker 3 (53:32):
And so, yeah, we're gonna be exhausted.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yes, this new age is going to require us to
do more, to put out more content constantly feeding these
short attention spans with what we think is valuable information.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
But we got to be ready for this wartime.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Jamelle Hill has provided us with the ted talk. You take,
that you run with. That that was so encouraging to me,
Fran because I often say to myself, should I be
making candles now? Should I be putting flowers on bacon?
Should girl?
Speaker 3 (54:07):
The way these tarrors about to hit? I don't know,
could you?
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Because we're gonna all have to learn apparently to churn
butter and be snapping.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
Peas because apparently, because apparently so apparent.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Going back to they like, yeah, you're gonna have to
go through a little bit of paid I'm like, oh
my god, Am I gonna be washing clothes.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
At the river?
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Like yes, yes, get your washboard out. That's where we're head.
That is where we're headed. I'm gonna be Jesus help us.
Jamel Hill, you are wonderful. Your YouTube pages what so
people can go and listen to it.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
It's called very simple. It's Jamel Hill and.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Jamelill I T S I T S that's right. No apostrophy, okay,
mine is it's Carrie Champion. I'm sending people there as well,
because I just I'm trying to do what you're doing. Friend,
I'm learning these we just real aunties trying to go
on the live.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
Is this working?
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Is this yeah? Can y'all see?
Speaker 3 (55:00):
Yay?
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Right, hey, turn this on for your mama. Get this
right here.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Now that's how Don Living first started. And now he
just live everywhere. He live from the bathroom, he live
from a shoe box, he live walking down the street.
He live in the middle of the theater. I'm like, ah,
so you now you now you're millennial, Okay, DoD you
know from Baby Boom merchant, millennial and up here telling
us how to do it. All right, I got you.
I'll get there. I'll get there. Thank you so much
(55:28):
for being on Naked Sports. I appreciate you, my friend.
So I love you and I'll talk to you soon,
all right.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Naked Sports written and executive produced by me Carry Champion,
produced by Jockey's Thomas Sound Design, and mastered by Dwayne Crawford.
Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effects podcast
network in iHeartMedia.
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