March 18, 2024 • 48 mins
In this conversation, Jasmine Guy discusses her career in dance and acting, her role in the groundbreaking TV show A Different World, and the importance of black representation in the media. She also shares her experiences with Tupac Shakur, her successes of being a black artist in Hollywood, and her upcoming projects including Harlem on Amazon Prime.
Connect: @CariChampion @IamJasmineGuy
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I knew whatever you know, messed up thing. Whitley said,
it would be countered on that show by somebody else.
I didn't have to worry about. Oh my god, I'm
not saying that, even though it's funny m hm. Because
one of my first lines was telling Denise Huxtable, I
(00:20):
parked in the handicap because it was closer and Fred Whitfrey,
I said, well, why should I be punished because I
can WHOA.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, exactly can we say that today? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
We can't say stuff she said back there.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I really loved me some Whitley. She may have said
inappropriate things, but she makes me giggle. That was Jasmine guy,
and she is on this edition of Naked.
Speaker 5 (00:54):
It's the greatest discourse and entertainment can naked.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
Whitney Kerry Champions.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
And carry Champion is to be be on a champion.
They care with champion. They be on a champion, They
care with Champion, Andy car with Chap, be afraid of Sports,
and then the naive.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Where hey, everybody, welcome to a new edition of Naked.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Today we're taking a trip down memory lane and I'm
gonna get a little I'm gonna get a little wild
up here, but I think everybody knows a different world.
Jasmine Guy Kadeem Hardison gave birth to Jada Pinkett probably
one of the first times we really saw Tupac act
on television, Tupac shakor May He Rest in Peace. There
(01:32):
were so many luminaries that I consider luminaries on that show,
but the biggest standout for that show for me was
an HBCU, a historically black college and or university. And
for a young girl who grew up in California, I
knew nothing. Sad to say, I knew nothing about HBCUs.
(01:52):
My mother didn't because she didn't go to school and
that really wasn't her thing. And somewhere in the South
or on the East Coast seemed like another world for us.
Seemed like an entirely different world for people who can't travel,
and HBCU was so unknown, I believe, to the world
until The Cosby Show came about. Say what you want
about Bill Cosby. He did introduce HBCUs to mainstream America.
(02:16):
He did introduce an upwardly mobile family contemporary not just
the Jeffersons, but a contemporary upperly mobile family to America,
to mainstream America. It was must see TV. It was
The Cosby Show. It was a different world. And I'm
pretty sure you guys have all heard of the show
called Cheers and people would tune in for hours and
(02:37):
hours on end when you only had three networks to
watch and NBC was winning at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Things have changed, But I do want to.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Talk about what I like to call the heyday of
black TV television that I would stop and say, I
have to watch it. There was a Living Single that
was on Fox. There was Martin that was on Fox.
There was In Living Color on Fox. There were so
many shows. You saw Queen Latifah, you saw Eric Alexander.
(03:08):
We were introduced to so many wonderful icons in the
business still to this day through these TV shows that
aired on Fox. And as you know, I believe that
that network, Fox was new and fledging, and they had
this other show called The Simpsons, and a lot of
people and I'm paraphrasing the history, but you can look
(03:28):
this up for yourself. A lot of people would watch
Fox for the Simpsons, for In Living Color, for Living
Single is the one. Let me correct myself, Living Single Martin.
These were shows that we had to see, we must
watch those shows. And now that we take a look
back in history, it is it's disrespectful that a show
(03:51):
like Martin ever received an Emmy, which why I thought
this year at the Emmys, it was beautiful for them
to honor Martin.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Because out and the hell did Martin and I get
an Emmy.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
And it was just a smaller issue to a larger
problem of our black and brown voices not being identified
or value not seen or heard. We've heard that before,
but those networks, that network, in particular Fox, was built
on black shows.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
You're welcome, Fox.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
And so once these networks got their legs, they didn't
necessarily need black television. At least that's what they thought.
At least that's what it appears like. We had black television,
We had black movies. There were so many more black
films and movies, and say what you want about Tyler
Perry and men in dresses, but he still gives us
(04:40):
these black films that we just don't see anymore, that
are just so difficult to be made. Tyler Perry was like,
I'll make it. I'll be the source. I don't need
to get a greenlit. So this interview today is with
Jasmine Guy. She and Kadem Hardison were the couple that
we loved to watch on a Different world. She was
(05:01):
the Southern beil that we'd love to not like, but
we had to like because she really was charming in
spite of it all. And she was so talented, as
was that entire cast. But she was so talented. An actress,
a singer, a dancer, a director, a writer. She does
it all and she has her handprint or at least
(05:22):
her fingertips on some of the greats that we know
and love today. And on the podcast she will talk
about a different world. Of course, she will talk about
her friendship with Tupac Shakor and when he turned to
her the most. After he got shot in New York City,
he needed a place to go and no one knew
where he was hiding out. He and his family stay
(05:43):
with Jasmine Guy. She tells the story of how she
got the role for Harlem Knights, which you have to
see if you haven't seen. But what is consistent through
her story is that she is an icon and an legend.
And I can't help but to think that if she
were a blonde or even a brunette woman who had
(06:06):
this bevy of work, this resume of work that she has,
how would she be honored and remembered in mainstream America.
I'm so glad that she's so humble and willing to
do so many different interviews.
Speaker 7 (06:21):
Now.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I don't know if you've heard, but they're doing a tour.
They're going on tour, they being her and the cast
of a Different World, and they are going on an
HBCU tour like rock stars, as they should, because I
will tell you that show inspired many of my friends
to go to college. Name a show today that is
encouraging you to go to college, or to be educated,
(06:44):
or to be different. I can't even think of a
show today that's on the air that says, oh, this
makes me want to go to college. I had a
friend tell me he majored in engineering because that's what
Dwayne did on a Different World. I had a friend
one time tell me he wanted to be an architect
because that's what Eddie Murphy was in Boomerang.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
These are legacy shows that.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Really defined how we moved because we hadn't seen ourselves
in these ways before as a culture. And again, it
is my honor to have Jasmine Guy on the show,
but while you're listening, just think about what she and
her contemporaries are able to do. It's really special. Everybody,
(07:26):
welcome Jasmine Guy to Naked. Bea champion and care with
Chapion and care with chap first and foremost congratulations. I
think that for me, it has been such an honor
to watch your career. And I know you hear this
often as I have done some research. You hear that
you were a very very very significant part of our
(07:47):
narrative in life, especially when it came to college. And
I find myself constantly in awe of the talent that
you have. And oftentimes if I, even if I tried
to look around, didn't say who's had that career? Who
has that talent? Literally that talent I could act and
seeing I can dance. Those were requirements if you wanted
(08:08):
to make it in Hollywood. And your genesis story, for
my understanding, so you started dancing when you were five
years old. You knew that was something that was in you,
And I'm really curious as to how you knew that
at such a young age.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Was it a part of just your spirit?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well, I actually asked my mother why she put me
in the dance class. Why did she picked that discipline
out of anything else? And he said, because you were
always dancing around the house. And I said, oh, okay,
So maybe I did feel that connection early. I was,
(08:49):
you know, in the basement with my I had a
record player back then, in the olden dances.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
We still have them.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
So I think that I made a commitment to being
a dancer when I was twelve. I didn't realize that
you could do this as a profession. And when I
saw Alvin Ailey perform in Atlanta and that it was
during the Peace Revelations that I felt I don't know,
(09:25):
I started teering a little bit and you know, putting
myself in the pieces in Waite in the water in
the yellow section and fix me. And I said, oh,
I think this is what people feel when when they
get happy, because I've witnessed it. But I never felt
(09:49):
it until that moment. I said, I felt connected to
God right now, you know that. So I told my
dad that I knew what I wanted to be when
I grew up, and it was the dancer, I said,
And I want to dance with Alvin Ailey.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I think this is my calling.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think this is the way I can best communicate
to other people. And I think it was the calling
word that got them too, because you know, you don't
use that kind of word lightly. And that's when I
ramped up everything my my dance training, from going to
(10:34):
Spelman Dance School in Atlanta to going to or Performing
Arts High School and now having two hours of dance
every day there. I also joined Atlanta Ballet and got
into the court at Ballet, so I'm on point and
I'm doing the Nutcracker. And over the summer, I went
to North Carolina School of the Arts because I knew
(10:58):
that my desire and my talent didn't match with what
I could really do.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
My body needed more technique.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Because those dancers in A Lea's technically are proficient and
off the chain. And so that's when I really dove
in to getting that pathway to A Lea's and I
got it. I was awarded a scholarship study at A
Lea's when I was in the eleventh grade, and no,
(11:35):
it was during twelfth grade, and I knew that I
was going to take that scholarship. It was a six
week scholarship for the summer, and I never went back
home after that. Because they kept elevating me within the
school to third company, second company. During that time, I
(11:57):
also got the Fame TV pilot and then eventually did
the TV show in LA with Debbie Allen. And when
I came back to New York after being in LA
for that, I was doing a lot of Broadway. I
did maybe five or six years of different Broadway shows,
(12:20):
different tours. I was in the ensemble, I was understudying people.
I was doing eight shows a week for you know,
a good five or six years.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I think that that, to me is when I first
heard of Alvin Ailey. Is when I became a fan
of yours and studied your career. I think I grew
up on the West Coast right and you were in
Atlanta and you went to Spelman, all the schools that
I admired, And I wonder, if you realize how much
(12:53):
of the experience, the black experience, how much of that
would really influence your career and the people who followed you.
Did you have any idea at that time?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Not at the time, But I did School Days before
I did A Different World, even though School Days came
out after because it was a movie, you know, it
looks like a different world started School Days. But that
which is my real first break was the School Days
movie was Spike Lee.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
But everybody in that movie could sing, dance, and act.
You had to.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It was a musical, and we were all coming from
musical theater, you know. I had done The Whiz, I
had done Leader of the Pat Bubble and Brown Sugar
Be Hot.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
And I knew a lot of the people in School.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Days already from New York. It's funny because you know,
dancers for the audition. The audition was pretty grueling as
far as you have to do monologues, you have to
see a capella, and then you had to come back
and dance. So the actors were freaking out about the dance,
(14:06):
the dancers were freaking out about singing, you know. But
literally you had to do all three. And I was
with a lot of people that did that that, you know,
I didn't see it as something that unusual. And then
I was working with Debbie Allen who did that, and
then some yeah, the Reds produced choreograph, you know. So
(14:32):
I didn't realize it because I didn't realize that HBCUs
were so unknown to the rest of the country because
I lived in Atlanta, across the street from Morehouse.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And it was just what it was.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It was the normal, Yes it was.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
I was introduced to an HBCU proper because of the
Cosby Show and then wanted to attend one because of
a different world. And I, you know, but I grew
up on the West Coast. I hear this story all
the time. I've watched your past interviews. I know that
you all get that at least, you know, half a
dozen times a week or something, even more people saying
(15:11):
thank you so much for introducing me to an HBCU,
or you were the reason why I wanted to attend.
But what you were doing was groundbreaking, and the show itself,
a different world, was so politically active, and it to
me was our renaissance, our highlight, our glory days of
(15:33):
black television. And from my understanding, you had an opportunity
to write. Debbie Allen, encourage you guys to write, to
really be a part of the show. Can you talk
to me about the special the special love affair that
the world, the culture rather had had with a different world.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Well, I feel that the HBCU was the backdrop. But
at a four did us political topics, revolutionary topics, current
topics for that time, and all of those shows that
were deeper we had to pass through the network. The
(16:14):
network didn't care about us being deep. They cared about
us being funny. So the balance of being funny within
a dramatic theme like date rate anti apartheid movement, the
election happened that year, one year or while we were
on when Jesse was running for president or ros Parrot
(16:39):
was running for president. That was the mastermind of Debbie Allen.
How to incorporate these themes that these young people need
to be dealing with and know without losing our humors.
And a lot of that is because of our relationships.
The characters in the show were very different. We were
(17:02):
all black, but we had different backgrounds, different experiences, different attitudes,
and up until then, other than you know Cosby and
other black sitcoms, we were working in white environments and
(17:22):
had to be responsible and creative, and a different world
allowed us to be free. Because I knew whatever you
know messed up thing Whitley said, it would be countered
on that show by somebody else. You know, I didn't
have to worry about Oh my god, I'm not saying
(17:44):
that even though it's funny, because one of my first
lines was telling Denise Huxtable that I parked in the
handicap because it was closer and with me, I said, well,
why should I be punished because I can't WoT?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, exactly can we say that today? Don't?
Speaker 6 (18:06):
We can't?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Say?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
She said back there I doubt, but we should because
in real life we're saying it, you know what I mean?
I think people are way too sensitive about what actors
that keep comedians saying, because you're taking the irony and
the humor out of what we do. We are relating
(18:29):
to you through our characters for what people really do.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Say.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Yeah, you know, you know every Champion and Kerry Champions
to be a champion, a Champion and Kerry Champion and
Carry Champ, be a Champion and Kerry Champion and Kerry.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Champion entertainment and naked work, Kerry Champion.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
And Kerry Champions to be a champion, a Champion and
Carry Champion, the Champion and Kerry Champion.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
And I wouldn't be Frausport and then the same inkivenet
you word.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
I have so many questions because I look at I
watch many of I watched many shows.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I'm a TV watcher.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
There is there's nothing like the Cosme Show or a
Different World on the air right now. There is nothing
like Living Single on the air right now. There's nothing
like you know, in Living Color on the air right now.
And I don't want to say the talent pool isn't
the same, but the environment the talent pool was to
(19:33):
me superb because you all went on to have very
stellar careers and became legends and still are very active
and acting. And I don't know what is missing now.
And I don't want to sound like somebody that's like,
get off my porch, because there are some great things
about new television today. But I wonder if you can
(19:53):
tell me was it the casting, was it the director?
Was it the writing? What's different from then versus now?
Because I feel like this generation, millennials especially, they need
to have a different world, if you will, they need
to have that real, honest, fun, true experience where you're activated.
(20:15):
You guys were activated. You're talking about politics, you're talking
about AIDS, you're talking about everything that is so important
in today's age as opposed to social media.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
It's interesting because we have you know, I was always
pitching to three networks. Now there's a plethora of streaming.
You know, BT was only playing videos when I was
on TV. It was somewhere we could go and pitch
(20:47):
our ideas, you know. And when deb did encourage me
to write for the show, and I wrote three episodes
and I realized what I could write a pilot and
it but who am I gonna pitch it too? You know,
we didn't have a home. And I watched Fox start,
(21:09):
I watched the c W start. They all started with
black shows. Fox started with Rock That now to show
Simbad had a show. This is even before Martin And
as soon as those networks got their legs, they dropped
the black shows.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yes, we built them.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It was heartbreaking because I thought we were part of
a wave. I didn't know we were on the crest
and coming down. I didn't foresee that elimination and it's
happening now and it's up and since like, why did
they cancel the game? It was a popular show. The
(21:52):
audience asked to bring that show back and it did
lean away Isa Ray seeing them as showrunners, producers, that's
what we had on the different world. We had black
female producers, exec producers, showrunner Susan fails Hill, Debbie Allen,
(22:17):
and then we had leads that were black females. When
Diane Carrol came on our show playing with Lee's mother
and as beautiful on as she's on camera, what a wait,
just a time out?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
What a beautiful, beautiful moment. What a legend. Diane Carroll
and Jasin Guy. It was so perfect, perfect casting. I
believed it. It was so wonderful. And I just get
I'm getting nostalgic talking to you about it, because you
really really showed us what beauty could look like inside
and out as a black woman, as a black young
(22:56):
girl watching that show, and I'm like, oh, we're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
We're beautiful, yes, and we're smart and we're creative and
we have a voice and all that. And Diane Carroll
said she never thought she would see that she was
always the only black and the only female, so that
means only work with white men always, Julia, you know,
(23:21):
And to come on our set and see not only
powerful positions, but an atmosphere of openness and creativity where
they wanted to hear what we thought about things about
our characters, how we could do it. And it's not
always like that. A lot of time, like we paid
(23:45):
you to just do this line. Do it, don't critique it,
don't work it, don't you know, don't bring your extra
self to it. And having had that experience, it makes
me direct myself when I'm on a set and I'm
not getting any notes or direction on how to make
(24:10):
it better, when they're just satisfied with my first tape.
In my mind, I direct myself and see how I
could make it different the next time, change it up
a little in a way that that might breathe new
life into it, you know. But I didn't always get
that kind of nurturing from my from other directors I've.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Worked with, I can see that, and I think that God,
Debbie Allen, she's so she She's given birth to so
much for us to remember. She's given birth to so
much for us to remember she There is not one
creative that I even know now that are my contemporaries
that haven't had an experience or worked with her or
said that she's encouraged them. I wonder as you congratulate
(25:00):
on your emmy, oh thank you long overdue for for
so many of these shows that you have been on.
But it's finally it's good that you had it and
I and I and I hear you say you weren't.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Really you didn't write anything down.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I don't know if this is true, but when you
won this Emmy for the Jessica Wu Show, did you
feel like, finally did.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It matter to you at that point or did it
feel rewarding?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I think I had stopped thinking about that those kind
of things because it hadn't happened. We were not embraced
by white Hollywood. We didn't get Emmy's, we didn't get awards.
Everybody always said it was because we wore between Cosmi
and Cheers. They and so it would have helped our
(25:48):
career so much if we had up that kind of boost,
and for Debbie and for Susan Bels not to.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Be acknowledged for their work.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
So I let that go so long ago that I
was surprised at how happy I was, you know, but
it felt like it was for a different world and
for Atlanta that raised me. You know, I was like,
is it bloxious to bring my Emmy on the Good
(26:19):
Day Atlanta's show? Because I wanted to think that city,
you know, that got me to New York prepared to
go Yeah, you know, so that's how I felt about it.
The joy was coming from everybody that has invested in me,
(26:42):
So that was that was very moving. When I thought
about it, it was like I wanted to tell my teachers,
my you know, dance teachers.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And find them again and say, you know, did I.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Ever say you such a talent?
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I think I think that you want to say thank
you to them, But you really poured into us the
same way that I talk about Debbie Allen there and
this is no exaggeration, not a time that does not
go by that we talk about Whitley, we talk about
Jasmine guy. I love that you are now embarking on
(27:21):
an HBCU tour. And when I see you and Kadeem
is his name, but it's Dwayne forever for me, right,
But when I see you and kadem together, and there's
most recently this picture that you all recreated.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Oh you saw those, Yeah, we just did those. It
just took us.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I was saying, we can't use old pictures when we
were young and now we're in our sixties and it's
not working. So I thought that was brilliant that they
showed up before later, call it before later.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Yeah, let's do that yes, before and later, and you
are now. I think I hope you are feeling how
very important you are to our history, your black history.
You're so very important to us. And if you could
(28:19):
have done anything differently, and I don't necessarily know if
you would, but would there have been anything you've done
differently with your career.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
On me?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
I really like it at all. I could.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, of course there were a lot of roles I
didn't get, but I you know, it was hard to
make some of the decisions I made. For example, when
I was doing the Fame Teend show, I was making
seven hundred and fifty dollars a week and I left
(28:51):
that show to go back to the A Ley Company
at seventy five dollars a week because I felt like
I wasn't dancing enough. I wasn't in class. I wasn't
and that window of dancing with the A Lea Company
was small.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I didn't know how long my dancing life would be.
What if I got injured, what if?
Speaker 6 (29:15):
You know?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
But it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Fortified me, and I would say the only thing I
might change would have been when I wasn't working, I
would just sink, Yeah, I didn't have a light outside
of that.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I remember being at a school and a kid asking me, well,
what do you do when you're not acting?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Like?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
What are your hobbies? And I had none in my mind.
I'm like, good question.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You know, I gotta go get a life. If I
got to go get a hobby, you can you talk
about dancing?
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You made seventy five dollars a week and you left
fame to go back to dancing because you feel like
you needed to do more. The constant drive to want
to do more, be more, be excellent. It is something
that I have I've seen for so many women in
this business, especially black and brown women. Have you ever
felt relaxed? You might have hustled, you might have worked hard,
(30:25):
you might have been anxious, you might have felt supportive,
But have you ever been relaxed in your career.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
In my career, in my real life.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
In your career? Has it ever felt easy?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Not easy?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And if it was, I would challenge myself. Like I said,
sometimes people accept what I bring to the table, but
what I bring to the table could be improved upon.
That's just what I thought. Yeah, yeah, that were in
my bathroom before I got here. You know, give me
(31:01):
something else to try or play with. And the exciting
thing about doing Harlem the TV the Amazon show is
that everybody wants to just be great, you know. And
Whippo was on the set yesterday and she reminded us
(31:25):
she's a very giving person. If you need her in
your project to get your project done, she'll be that work.
If you're starting or embarking on another journey, she'll be
the one to call that will support you in that
(31:46):
with not only good advice, but we'll put herself there
for you. And that's also very important, especially for independent
black projects, because they're gonna need distribution after this is done.
They may have raised the money to film it, but
(32:06):
getting it out there is a whole other thing. And
they always want names and so. And they say that
black names, at least in the olden days, didn't have
international value, therefore they wouldn't get their return back, which
also isn't true. It's just another way of not getting
(32:29):
our projects out that we create. It's like we're good
for hire, but we have we have other stories we
want to tell.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, and you don't know them.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yes, Yes, I had.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
A bid Wish show and I knew already going in there.
I was going to have to explain what bid Wiss was, right.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
So I started it with, you know, this is a
very popular game in the black community. So if you
never heard of it, I'm going to tell you about it,
how it traveled across the country through the pulm importers,
and why it remained a black thing because the show
(33:14):
where I was picked pitching had black celebrities athletes in
a Bidwiss kind of tournament. Because I know a bunch
of celebrities in different realms and wouldn't have said, well, again, no,
I hang out with black people and I never heard
of it. I said, I just told you it's stuff
(33:36):
we do without y'all around.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Yeah, it's just it's for us. It's for us. You
don't know of it all. Yeah, the arrogance.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I would never think that I know everything about white people.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I tell you people Jewish people, how I listen to.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
What you tell me about, how you do family dinner,
how your unions go, h, how you vacation. I'm not
gonna go, well, I know white people and I never
heard of that.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
How do you think you gonna know everything? I started
by saying, I'm gonna tell you something you never heard of,
but justin believe I know the popularity of this game
and this you know, that's always that was frustrating not
having someone to pitch to. Now I have people to
pitch too.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Now we have people to pitch to.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
You mentioned there is a new and I don't want
to I don't want to feel like I'm saying that
the talent pool isn't as vast as it was. We
just don't have the shows that represent us on television anymore.
And to your point, our black shows built these networks,
and when they didn't need us anymore, we found ourselves
on the outside looking in. But now the new creative
(34:51):
is like, no, I'm the EP of the show, I'm
the creator of the show. I have full licensing of
the show. They're more business savvy because we felt like
those options were not a vag I assume we felt
like those options were not available. But what but what
what's missing still is the co sign because if we
have to explain it to you, you won't get it,
it won't make sense. And I and I find that
(35:13):
a lot of Hollywood creatives are arguing about that. So
when I think of someone and I think of a
movie that you were in that I. You know, I
have these movies I like to go to bed too,
and the movie that I like to go to one
of them is Harlem Knights. And what Eddie Murphy was
able to do with his career was that's why he's
a true talent, right. He was able to live in
(35:34):
both worlds, and he did both things.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
He gave us.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
He gave us our black films, he gave us our
our blockbusters. He gave us our films that we could watch.
And you, I heard say in an interview that you
pitched yourself, if you will, to Eddie to be in
Harlem Knights. And what a great decision that was. I
(35:57):
didn't think that was pitching you. I've met in I'm
at a party.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I knew him from before, and I was a little
miffed that they didn't allow me to audition and that
role was given to Michael Michelle by the time I
saw Eddie and he said, well, congratulations, how is it feeled?
(36:22):
You know, I don't know, it's like People magazine cover
or something. And I said, I would feel better if
I could auditioned for you. That was very insulting to
me that you wouldn't see me and it gave a
wrong message to my agents, and you know, is there
(36:42):
a problem kind of thing, because out of respect, I'm
asking to audition at least see me. So at the
time I said that to him, it was already done
and I was just voiceing how I felt about it.
And it was happening more and more with black men
(37:03):
in Hollywood that I was seeing on a social level.
So they were I said, yeah, but you're seeing me
as me. You got to bring me in and see
if I can play the character. And the white directors
brought me in because they didn't know me personally. Well,
let's see if she.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
She can do it.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And I just wanted that same opportunity. And then Eddie
calledby and and gave.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Me the role.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Well yeah, it was a little messy, and and I
was thrilled that was in it. But I was like, well,
I don't know, yes, that's another true story.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Well that's fine, and well they gave you. It went
the way it's supposed to go. And I'm sure that
happens often, that's not I'm sure, I know. Yeah, so
I but I love that because once again, there we
are telling some really great stories that we probably knew
nothing about. And we're talking about Harlem, the mecca for
the culture and for us who aren't able to travel
(38:15):
or live in different areas. Like to me, I grew
up in California. New York was a year. It was
It was a lifetime away because you know, my family
didn't travel. It felt like a lifetime away to feel
and hear about this place called Harlem where we can
do all these fun things and dance and singing and
cut up.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Well, where's this mecca? Where can I go to be
a part of that? Again? Important and so needed.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
Now, every champion and carry champion is to be a champion,
a champion and carry chappion and carry Chatty outa champion
and carry Chappion and carry Chappy's sports and entertainment can naked, We're.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
Very champion.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
And Carrie Champion is to be a champion of Champion
and Carrie chat Champion and care with.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Champion and carried.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Or.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I would like to know one other story.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
When you were on different world, and I know that
you don't have much time, but I that you are
on a different world. You met this this guy by
the name of Tupac shit Kor and I had the
opportunity of meeting him twice. Both times I was a teenager,
I was like sixteen and eighteen, and he always had
something special about him, and he was always very polite
like and I was I was just a kid who
(39:31):
was a fan. And he was very polite, I remember,
very approachable. And you tell the story of how he
and you became friends because he was always hanging out
with Jada on set, Jada Pinkett, and he used your home,
the families, the Shakors used your home as a place
of refuge after he was shot, and and you talked
(39:54):
about the book you wrote. Can you tell me a
little bit about that relationship with a female and Tupac
and why he knew that he could find solace with you.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Well, when I met him, he did an episode of
a Different World, and then I saw him outside in
the real world, and I was hearing murmurings about he's
just playing himself. He ain't all that, he's just playing himself.
(40:25):
And I said, well, do you know how hard it
is to make you think that that character really is
a person you were making. I thought he was a
great actor and I just wanted him to know that.
I said, you have to focus on that challenge too,
because the rappers were getting movies back then, and not
(40:50):
everybody could act. They were using the popularity of their name,
you know, but those that could did and you could
see it, you know, the transition that will Smith made,
the transition that Ice Cube made, the transition Ice Team made,
but not everybody could sustain it. And I always thought
(41:16):
Tupac was going to be a film star producer, you know,
go in the path of his his contemporaries that are
now on that level, creating their own material, learning the business,
learning from the music business, and applying it to movies
and film you know, like fifty cent. I think he
(41:39):
had that kind of mind to do. And he was
still very yelling, I member when he was like twenty
two or something, you know, so a lot of what
we talked about was that, and he would tell me
things to that I should be doing that I didn't
see for myself, you know. He was like, stop talking
(42:01):
about all these other girls. We didn't get that way
about you because I had a kind of category for
that leading lady, you know, Vanessa Williams, Robin Gibbons, you know,
and I was like, I've got to learn how to
how to what that is that you know? How you
(42:22):
say you're just say yeah that you you know? And
so I was studying them because I always saw myself
as a character actor, and the broader the character, the better,
you know. After Whitley, I wanted to play crackhead. After
the Crackhead, I wanted to play a teacher. I didn't
want to always be the girlfriend of I kind of
(42:46):
didn't know what to do with that, actually, So we
had that discussion a lot about not seeing myself as
that and almost preferring a supportive role that I understood
and knew I could add to, as opposed to a
look that fit with something but nothing really to play yeah,
(43:11):
you know nothing. So we had interesting conversations and I
really saw that for him and.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
The star, here's the star, and he made such a
such star and he made such a huge impact in
a short period of time. And sometimes you think maybe
those legends don't deserve to have a long life, and
just what they do is what is meant for us
to interpret. You said that you liked the fax special
to me, Dear Mama, sup.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Superb, superb.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
I agree, perb.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
I didn't realize how smart a Fina was, and I
just thank you for all that you've been able to do.
I know you have to go, but thank you so
much for just what you've contributed to us and the
inspiration you've given to us.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
And that Alan Hughes direct that that Docky series was
rod yet it was and there his view was a trip.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I was it? Why it? Why?
Speaker 7 (44:08):
Well, I'm glad you decided to do this because he
digit's early videos, Brenda had a baby and all that,
and for them to fall out the way they did, you.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
Know, literally beat him up on set. Only Alan could
tell that story. I'm all like, wait, you mean to
tell me he beat you? Hear I've heard the rumors.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
And it was just beautiful.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
It was beautiful, and I know it had to be
embarrassing or painful, but only he could have given us
that that insight that we needed.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
And so with that being said, I just thank you.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
You've touched everyone that we've known and loved in the
culture and still do and we support you. Congratulations on
the Emmy that you received in January. Congratulations on the
HBCU tour. From my understanding, that's in April. The second tour.
You'll be at Howard University in April. Is there anything
else that we should be looking out for. I know
you're on Harlem, you talked about that. That's on am On.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Well, I'm doing a series of Christmas movies and I film.
I'm filming the third one in Africa. We're going on
the Destination Christmas and it's about the West Leave Family,
starring me and Dorian Wilson as the mother and father
of three kids and TC Carson and I love doing it.
(45:26):
I mean, I really feel like they're my family and
we have a great time and I'm glad I get
to do that soon, like next week, I'm going to Africa.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Where where in Africa? Are you going?
Speaker 3 (45:37):
South Africa?
Speaker 2 (45:38):
So good for you.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Enjoy enjoy and I enjoyed doing this interview.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
You're wonderful, You're great, beautiful, talented.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
I received that.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Nobody's asking me, so I appreciate that that.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
So again, go out and support Jasmine Guy.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
If you guys gonna be in uh in the DC area,
you can look it up online hbcur I saw her
put it on her Instagram, the Jasmine Guy that they
were going to Howard. I think it's sometime in April
April ninth. Maybe I think that would be great. I
think that's always wonderful to see someone who inspired so
many people to head to an HBCU, to head to college, period,
(46:17):
but to an HBCU, go and talk to those at
an HBCU. She gave life. I believe Bill Cosby different world.
Gosby Show gave life to HBCUs And I know that
history will not remember Cosby in that in that way.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
But I will tell you two things can be true.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
He could be what people do not like and despise,
but he can also be someone who really encouraged our
culture to be better and do more.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Two things can be true.
Speaker 4 (46:46):
I often say that on the podcast it's disappointing that Hollywood,
much like much of society and many institutions, can't appreciate
the culture and what it brings to the main the world.
Meaning when Fox needed all that black talent in shows
and programming, they had no problem greenlighting those shows because
(47:07):
they were in neat and all of that black talent
and all those black shows helped build that network. Much
like My Good Girl Angela RAI will say we built
this joint for free. Talking about the city in which
the America and which we live in. We built this
joint for free social respect and so with that being said,
I show nothing but respect to Jasmine Guy. I am
(47:30):
so grateful for her that she came on the podcast
and shared some stories. For me personally, it's like, give
me the inside, break down that fourth wall, let me
see what's happening, because these are the shows that I
grew up on that met so much to me. And
quite frankly, everyone is living off the fruit of what
Jasmine Guy and all of the characters in a different
(47:50):
world in the Cosmme Show were able to do. We're
getting smarter and better, though work is just getting more scarce.
Perhaps we'll have another renaissance if you will for listening
to Naked. We'll be back next Monday.
I knew whatever you know, messed up thing. Whitley said,
it would be countered on that show by somebody else.
I didn't have to worry about. Oh my god, I'm
not saying that, even though it's funny m hm. Because
one of my first lines was telling Denise Huxtable, I
(00:20):
parked in the handicap because it was closer and Fred Whitfrey,
I said, well, why should I be punished because I
can WHOA.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, exactly can we say that today? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
We can't say stuff she said back there.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I really loved me some Whitley. She may have said
inappropriate things, but she makes me giggle. That was Jasmine guy,
and she is on this edition of Naked.
Speaker 5 (00:54):
It's the greatest discourse and entertainment can naked.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
Whitney Kerry Champions.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
And carry Champion is to be be on a champion.
They care with champion. They be on a champion, They
care with Champion, Andy car with Chap, be afraid of Sports,
and then the naive.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Where hey, everybody, welcome to a new edition of Naked.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Today we're taking a trip down memory lane and I'm
gonna get a little I'm gonna get a little wild
up here, but I think everybody knows a different world.
Jasmine Guy Kadeem Hardison gave birth to Jada Pinkett probably
one of the first times we really saw Tupac act
on television, Tupac shakor May He Rest in Peace. There
(01:32):
were so many luminaries that I consider luminaries on that show,
but the biggest standout for that show for me was
an HBCU, a historically black college and or university. And
for a young girl who grew up in California, I
knew nothing. Sad to say, I knew nothing about HBCUs.
(01:52):
My mother didn't because she didn't go to school and
that really wasn't her thing. And somewhere in the South
or on the East Coast seemed like another world for us.
Seemed like an entirely different world for people who can't travel,
and HBCU was so unknown, I believe, to the world
until The Cosby Show came about. Say what you want
about Bill Cosby. He did introduce HBCUs to mainstream America.
(02:16):
He did introduce an upwardly mobile family contemporary not just
the Jeffersons, but a contemporary upperly mobile family to America,
to mainstream America. It was must see TV. It was
The Cosby Show. It was a different world. And I'm
pretty sure you guys have all heard of the show
called Cheers and people would tune in for hours and
(02:37):
hours on end when you only had three networks to
watch and NBC was winning at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Things have changed, But I do want to.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Talk about what I like to call the heyday of
black TV television that I would stop and say, I
have to watch it. There was a Living Single that
was on Fox. There was Martin that was on Fox.
There was In Living Color on Fox. There were so
many shows. You saw Queen Latifah, you saw Eric Alexander.
(03:08):
We were introduced to so many wonderful icons in the
business still to this day through these TV shows that
aired on Fox. And as you know, I believe that
that network, Fox was new and fledging, and they had
this other show called The Simpsons, and a lot of
people and I'm paraphrasing the history, but you can look
(03:28):
this up for yourself. A lot of people would watch
Fox for the Simpsons, for In Living Color, for Living
Single is the one. Let me correct myself, Living Single Martin.
These were shows that we had to see, we must
watch those shows. And now that we take a look
back in history, it is it's disrespectful that a show
(03:51):
like Martin ever received an Emmy, which why I thought
this year at the Emmys, it was beautiful for them
to honor Martin.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Because out and the hell did Martin and I get
an Emmy.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
And it was just a smaller issue to a larger
problem of our black and brown voices not being identified
or value not seen or heard. We've heard that before,
but those networks, that network, in particular Fox, was built
on black shows.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
You're welcome, Fox.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
And so once these networks got their legs, they didn't
necessarily need black television. At least that's what they thought.
At least that's what it appears like. We had black television,
We had black movies. There were so many more black
films and movies, and say what you want about Tyler
Perry and men in dresses, but he still gives us
(04:40):
these black films that we just don't see anymore, that
are just so difficult to be made. Tyler Perry was like,
I'll make it. I'll be the source. I don't need
to get a greenlit. So this interview today is with
Jasmine Guy. She and Kadem Hardison were the couple that
we loved to watch on a Different world. She was
(05:01):
the Southern beil that we'd love to not like, but
we had to like because she really was charming in
spite of it all. And she was so talented, as
was that entire cast. But she was so talented. An actress,
a singer, a dancer, a director, a writer. She does
it all and she has her handprint or at least
(05:22):
her fingertips on some of the greats that we know
and love today. And on the podcast she will talk
about a different world. Of course, she will talk about
her friendship with Tupac Shakor and when he turned to
her the most. After he got shot in New York City,
he needed a place to go and no one knew
where he was hiding out. He and his family stay
(05:43):
with Jasmine Guy. She tells the story of how she
got the role for Harlem Knights, which you have to
see if you haven't seen. But what is consistent through
her story is that she is an icon and an legend.
And I can't help but to think that if she
were a blonde or even a brunette woman who had
(06:06):
this bevy of work, this resume of work that she has,
how would she be honored and remembered in mainstream America.
I'm so glad that she's so humble and willing to
do so many different interviews.
Speaker 7 (06:21):
Now.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I don't know if you've heard, but they're doing a tour.
They're going on tour, they being her and the cast
of a Different World, and they are going on an
HBCU tour like rock stars, as they should, because I
will tell you that show inspired many of my friends
to go to college. Name a show today that is
encouraging you to go to college, or to be educated,
(06:44):
or to be different. I can't even think of a
show today that's on the air that says, oh, this
makes me want to go to college. I had a
friend tell me he majored in engineering because that's what
Dwayne did on a Different World. I had a friend
one time tell me he wanted to be an architect
because that's what Eddie Murphy was in Boomerang.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
These are legacy shows that.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Really defined how we moved because we hadn't seen ourselves
in these ways before as a culture. And again, it
is my honor to have Jasmine Guy on the show,
but while you're listening, just think about what she and
her contemporaries are able to do. It's really special. Everybody,
(07:26):
welcome Jasmine Guy to Naked. Bea champion and care with
Chapion and care with chap first and foremost congratulations. I
think that for me, it has been such an honor
to watch your career. And I know you hear this
often as I have done some research. You hear that
you were a very very very significant part of our
(07:47):
narrative in life, especially when it came to college. And
I find myself constantly in awe of the talent that
you have. And oftentimes if I, even if I tried
to look around, didn't say who's had that career? Who
has that talent? Literally that talent I could act and
seeing I can dance. Those were requirements if you wanted
(08:08):
to make it in Hollywood. And your genesis story, for
my understanding, so you started dancing when you were five
years old. You knew that was something that was in you,
And I'm really curious as to how you knew that
at such a young age.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Was it a part of just your spirit?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well, I actually asked my mother why she put me
in the dance class. Why did she picked that discipline
out of anything else? And he said, because you were
always dancing around the house. And I said, oh, okay,
So maybe I did feel that connection early. I was,
(08:49):
you know, in the basement with my I had a
record player back then, in the olden dances.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
We still have them.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
So I think that I made a commitment to being
a dancer when I was twelve. I didn't realize that
you could do this as a profession. And when I
saw Alvin Ailey perform in Atlanta and that it was
during the Peace Revelations that I felt I don't know,
(09:25):
I started teering a little bit and you know, putting
myself in the pieces in Waite in the water in
the yellow section and fix me. And I said, oh,
I think this is what people feel when when they
get happy, because I've witnessed it. But I never felt
(09:49):
it until that moment. I said, I felt connected to
God right now, you know that. So I told my
dad that I knew what I wanted to be when
I grew up, and it was the dancer, I said,
And I want to dance with Alvin Ailey.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I think this is my calling.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think this is the way I can best communicate
to other people. And I think it was the calling
word that got them too, because you know, you don't
use that kind of word lightly. And that's when I
ramped up everything my my dance training, from going to
(10:34):
Spelman Dance School in Atlanta to going to or Performing
Arts High School and now having two hours of dance
every day there. I also joined Atlanta Ballet and got
into the court at Ballet, so I'm on point and
I'm doing the Nutcracker. And over the summer, I went
to North Carolina School of the Arts because I knew
(10:58):
that my desire and my talent didn't match with what
I could really do.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
My body needed more technique.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Because those dancers in A Lea's technically are proficient and
off the chain. And so that's when I really dove
in to getting that pathway to A Lea's and I
got it. I was awarded a scholarship study at A
Lea's when I was in the eleventh grade, and no,
(11:35):
it was during twelfth grade, and I knew that I
was going to take that scholarship. It was a six
week scholarship for the summer, and I never went back
home after that. Because they kept elevating me within the
school to third company, second company. During that time, I
(11:57):
also got the Fame TV pilot and then eventually did
the TV show in LA with Debbie Allen. And when
I came back to New York after being in LA
for that, I was doing a lot of Broadway. I
did maybe five or six years of different Broadway shows,
(12:20):
different tours. I was in the ensemble, I was understudying people.
I was doing eight shows a week for you know,
a good five or six years.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I think that that, to me is when I first
heard of Alvin Ailey. Is when I became a fan
of yours and studied your career. I think I grew
up on the West Coast right and you were in
Atlanta and you went to Spelman, all the schools that
I admired, And I wonder, if you realize how much
(12:53):
of the experience, the black experience, how much of that
would really influence your career and the people who followed you.
Did you have any idea at that time?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Not at the time, But I did School Days before
I did A Different World, even though School Days came
out after because it was a movie, you know, it
looks like a different world started School Days. But that
which is my real first break was the School Days
movie was Spike Lee.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
But everybody in that movie could sing, dance, and act.
You had to.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It was a musical, and we were all coming from
musical theater, you know. I had done The Whiz, I
had done Leader of the Pat Bubble and Brown Sugar
Be Hot.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
And I knew a lot of the people in School.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Days already from New York. It's funny because you know,
dancers for the audition. The audition was pretty grueling as
far as you have to do monologues, you have to
see a capella, and then you had to come back
and dance. So the actors were freaking out about the dance,
(14:06):
the dancers were freaking out about singing, you know. But
literally you had to do all three. And I was
with a lot of people that did that that, you know,
I didn't see it as something that unusual. And then
I was working with Debbie Allen who did that, and
then some yeah, the Reds produced choreograph, you know. So
(14:32):
I didn't realize it because I didn't realize that HBCUs
were so unknown to the rest of the country because
I lived in Atlanta, across the street from Morehouse.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And it was just what it was.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It was the normal, Yes it was.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
I was introduced to an HBCU proper because of the
Cosby Show and then wanted to attend one because of
a different world. And I, you know, but I grew
up on the West Coast. I hear this story all
the time. I've watched your past interviews. I know that
you all get that at least, you know, half a
dozen times a week or something, even more people saying
(15:11):
thank you so much for introducing me to an HBCU,
or you were the reason why I wanted to attend.
But what you were doing was groundbreaking, and the show itself,
a different world, was so politically active, and it to
me was our renaissance, our highlight, our glory days of
(15:33):
black television. And from my understanding, you had an opportunity
to write. Debbie Allen, encourage you guys to write, to
really be a part of the show. Can you talk
to me about the special the special love affair that
the world, the culture rather had had with a different world.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Well, I feel that the HBCU was the backdrop. But
at a four did us political topics, revolutionary topics, current
topics for that time, and all of those shows that
were deeper we had to pass through the network. The
(16:14):
network didn't care about us being deep. They cared about
us being funny. So the balance of being funny within
a dramatic theme like date rate anti apartheid movement, the
election happened that year, one year or while we were
on when Jesse was running for president or ros Parrot
(16:39):
was running for president. That was the mastermind of Debbie Allen.
How to incorporate these themes that these young people need
to be dealing with and know without losing our humors.
And a lot of that is because of our relationships.
The characters in the show were very different. We were
(17:02):
all black, but we had different backgrounds, different experiences, different attitudes,
and up until then, other than you know Cosby and
other black sitcoms, we were working in white environments and
(17:22):
had to be responsible and creative, and a different world
allowed us to be free. Because I knew whatever you
know messed up thing Whitley said, it would be countered
on that show by somebody else. You know, I didn't
have to worry about Oh my god, I'm not saying
(17:44):
that even though it's funny, because one of my first
lines was telling Denise Huxtable that I parked in the
handicap because it was closer and with me, I said, well,
why should I be punished because I can't WoT?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, exactly can we say that today? Don't?
Speaker 6 (18:06):
We can't?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Say?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
She said back there I doubt, but we should because
in real life we're saying it, you know what I mean?
I think people are way too sensitive about what actors
that keep comedians saying, because you're taking the irony and
the humor out of what we do. We are relating
(18:29):
to you through our characters for what people really do.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Say.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Yeah, you know, you know every Champion and Kerry Champions
to be a champion, a Champion and Kerry Champion and
Carry Champ, be a Champion and Kerry Champion and Kerry.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Champion entertainment and naked work, Kerry Champion.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
And Kerry Champions to be a champion, a Champion and
Carry Champion, the Champion and Kerry Champion.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
And I wouldn't be Frausport and then the same inkivenet
you word.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
I have so many questions because I look at I
watch many of I watched many shows.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I'm a TV watcher.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
There is there's nothing like the Cosme Show or a
Different World on the air right now. There is nothing
like Living Single on the air right now. There's nothing
like you know, in Living Color on the air right now.
And I don't want to say the talent pool isn't
the same, but the environment the talent pool was to
(19:33):
me superb because you all went on to have very
stellar careers and became legends and still are very active
and acting. And I don't know what is missing now.
And I don't want to sound like somebody that's like,
get off my porch, because there are some great things
about new television today. But I wonder if you can
(19:53):
tell me was it the casting, was it the director?
Was it the writing? What's different from then versus now?
Because I feel like this generation, millennials especially, they need
to have a different world, if you will, they need
to have that real, honest, fun, true experience where you're activated.
(20:15):
You guys were activated. You're talking about politics, you're talking
about AIDS, you're talking about everything that is so important
in today's age as opposed to social media.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
It's interesting because we have you know, I was always
pitching to three networks. Now there's a plethora of streaming.
You know, BT was only playing videos when I was
on TV. It was somewhere we could go and pitch
(20:47):
our ideas, you know. And when deb did encourage me
to write for the show, and I wrote three episodes
and I realized what I could write a pilot and
it but who am I gonna pitch it too? You know,
we didn't have a home. And I watched Fox start,
(21:09):
I watched the c W start. They all started with
black shows. Fox started with Rock That now to show
Simbad had a show. This is even before Martin And
as soon as those networks got their legs, they dropped
the black shows.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yes, we built them.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It was heartbreaking because I thought we were part of
a wave. I didn't know we were on the crest
and coming down. I didn't foresee that elimination and it's
happening now and it's up and since like, why did
they cancel the game? It was a popular show. The
(21:52):
audience asked to bring that show back and it did
lean away Isa Ray seeing them as showrunners, producers, that's
what we had on the different world. We had black
female producers, exec producers, showrunner Susan fails Hill, Debbie Allen,
(22:17):
and then we had leads that were black females. When
Diane Carrol came on our show playing with Lee's mother
and as beautiful on as she's on camera, what a wait,
just a time out?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
What a beautiful, beautiful moment. What a legend. Diane Carroll
and Jasin Guy. It was so perfect, perfect casting. I
believed it. It was so wonderful. And I just get
I'm getting nostalgic talking to you about it, because you
really really showed us what beauty could look like inside
and out as a black woman, as a black young
(22:56):
girl watching that show, and I'm like, oh, we're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
We're beautiful, yes, and we're smart and we're creative and
we have a voice and all that. And Diane Carroll
said she never thought she would see that she was
always the only black and the only female, so that
means only work with white men always, Julia, you know,
(23:21):
And to come on our set and see not only
powerful positions, but an atmosphere of openness and creativity where
they wanted to hear what we thought about things about
our characters, how we could do it. And it's not
always like that. A lot of time, like we paid
(23:45):
you to just do this line. Do it, don't critique it,
don't work it, don't you know, don't bring your extra
self to it. And having had that experience, it makes
me direct myself when I'm on a set and I'm
not getting any notes or direction on how to make
(24:10):
it better, when they're just satisfied with my first tape.
In my mind, I direct myself and see how I
could make it different the next time, change it up
a little in a way that that might breathe new
life into it, you know. But I didn't always get
that kind of nurturing from my from other directors I've.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Worked with, I can see that, and I think that God,
Debbie Allen, she's so she She's given birth to so
much for us to remember. She's given birth to so
much for us to remember she There is not one
creative that I even know now that are my contemporaries
that haven't had an experience or worked with her or
said that she's encouraged them. I wonder as you congratulate
(25:00):
on your emmy, oh thank you long overdue for for
so many of these shows that you have been on.
But it's finally it's good that you had it and
I and I and I hear you say you weren't.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Really you didn't write anything down.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I don't know if this is true, but when you
won this Emmy for the Jessica Wu Show, did you
feel like, finally did.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It matter to you at that point or did it
feel rewarding?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I think I had stopped thinking about that those kind
of things because it hadn't happened. We were not embraced
by white Hollywood. We didn't get Emmy's, we didn't get awards.
Everybody always said it was because we wore between Cosmi
and Cheers. They and so it would have helped our
(25:48):
career so much if we had up that kind of boost,
and for Debbie and for Susan Bels not to.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Be acknowledged for their work.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
So I let that go so long ago that I
was surprised at how happy I was, you know, but
it felt like it was for a different world and
for Atlanta that raised me. You know, I was like,
is it bloxious to bring my Emmy on the Good
(26:19):
Day Atlanta's show? Because I wanted to think that city,
you know, that got me to New York prepared to
go Yeah, you know, so that's how I felt about it.
The joy was coming from everybody that has invested in me,
(26:42):
So that was that was very moving. When I thought
about it, it was like I wanted to tell my teachers,
my you know, dance teachers.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And find them again and say, you know, did I.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Ever say you such a talent?
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I think I think that you want to say thank
you to them, But you really poured into us the
same way that I talk about Debbie Allen there and
this is no exaggeration, not a time that does not
go by that we talk about Whitley, we talk about
Jasmine guy. I love that you are now embarking on
(27:21):
an HBCU tour. And when I see you and Kadeem
is his name, but it's Dwayne forever for me, right,
But when I see you and kadem together, and there's
most recently this picture that you all recreated.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Oh you saw those, Yeah, we just did those. It
just took us.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I was saying, we can't use old pictures when we
were young and now we're in our sixties and it's
not working. So I thought that was brilliant that they
showed up before later, call it before later.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Yeah, let's do that yes, before and later, and you
are now. I think I hope you are feeling how
very important you are to our history, your black history.
You're so very important to us. And if you could
(28:19):
have done anything differently, and I don't necessarily know if
you would, but would there have been anything you've done
differently with your career.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
On me?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
I really like it at all. I could.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, of course there were a lot of roles I
didn't get, but I you know, it was hard to
make some of the decisions I made. For example, when
I was doing the Fame Teend show, I was making
seven hundred and fifty dollars a week and I left
(28:51):
that show to go back to the A Ley Company
at seventy five dollars a week because I felt like
I wasn't dancing enough. I wasn't in class. I wasn't
and that window of dancing with the A Lea Company
was small.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I didn't know how long my dancing life would be.
What if I got injured, what if?
Speaker 6 (29:15):
You know?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
But it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Fortified me, and I would say the only thing I
might change would have been when I wasn't working, I
would just sink, Yeah, I didn't have a light outside
of that.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I remember being at a school and a kid asking me, well,
what do you do when you're not acting?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Like?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
What are your hobbies? And I had none in my mind.
I'm like, good question.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You know, I gotta go get a life. If I
got to go get a hobby, you can you talk
about dancing?
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You made seventy five dollars a week and you left
fame to go back to dancing because you feel like
you needed to do more. The constant drive to want
to do more, be more, be excellent. It is something
that I have I've seen for so many women in
this business, especially black and brown women. Have you ever
felt relaxed? You might have hustled, you might have worked hard,
(30:25):
you might have been anxious, you might have felt supportive,
But have you ever been relaxed in your career.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
In my career, in my real life.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
In your career? Has it ever felt easy?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Not easy?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And if it was, I would challenge myself. Like I said,
sometimes people accept what I bring to the table, but
what I bring to the table could be improved upon.
That's just what I thought. Yeah, yeah, that were in
my bathroom before I got here. You know, give me
(31:01):
something else to try or play with. And the exciting
thing about doing Harlem the TV the Amazon show is
that everybody wants to just be great, you know. And
Whippo was on the set yesterday and she reminded us
(31:25):
she's a very giving person. If you need her in
your project to get your project done, she'll be that work.
If you're starting or embarking on another journey, she'll be
the one to call that will support you in that
(31:46):
with not only good advice, but we'll put herself there
for you. And that's also very important, especially for independent
black projects, because they're gonna need distribution after this is done.
They may have raised the money to film it, but
(32:06):
getting it out there is a whole other thing. And
they always want names and so. And they say that
black names, at least in the olden days, didn't have
international value, therefore they wouldn't get their return back, which
also isn't true. It's just another way of not getting
(32:29):
our projects out that we create. It's like we're good
for hire, but we have we have other stories we
want to tell.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, and you don't know them.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yes, Yes, I had.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
A bid Wish show and I knew already going in there.
I was going to have to explain what bid Wiss was, right.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
So I started it with, you know, this is a
very popular game in the black community. So if you
never heard of it, I'm going to tell you about it,
how it traveled across the country through the pulm importers,
and why it remained a black thing because the show
(33:14):
where I was picked pitching had black celebrities athletes in
a Bidwiss kind of tournament. Because I know a bunch
of celebrities in different realms and wouldn't have said, well, again, no,
I hang out with black people and I never heard
of it. I said, I just told you it's stuff
(33:36):
we do without y'all around.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Yeah, it's just it's for us. It's for us. You
don't know of it all. Yeah, the arrogance.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I would never think that I know everything about white people.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I tell you people Jewish people, how I listen to.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
What you tell me about, how you do family dinner,
how your unions go, h, how you vacation. I'm not
gonna go, well, I know white people and I never
heard of that.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
How do you think you gonna know everything? I started
by saying, I'm gonna tell you something you never heard of,
but justin believe I know the popularity of this game
and this you know, that's always that was frustrating not
having someone to pitch to. Now I have people to
pitch too.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Now we have people to pitch to.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
You mentioned there is a new and I don't want
to I don't want to feel like I'm saying that
the talent pool isn't as vast as it was. We
just don't have the shows that represent us on television anymore.
And to your point, our black shows built these networks,
and when they didn't need us anymore, we found ourselves
on the outside looking in. But now the new creative
(34:51):
is like, no, I'm the EP of the show, I'm
the creator of the show. I have full licensing of
the show. They're more business savvy because we felt like
those options were not a vag I assume we felt
like those options were not available. But what but what
what's missing still is the co sign because if we
have to explain it to you, you won't get it,
it won't make sense. And I and I find that
(35:13):
a lot of Hollywood creatives are arguing about that. So
when I think of someone and I think of a
movie that you were in that I. You know, I
have these movies I like to go to bed too,
and the movie that I like to go to one
of them is Harlem Knights. And what Eddie Murphy was
able to do with his career was that's why he's
a true talent, right. He was able to live in
(35:34):
both worlds, and he did both things.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
He gave us.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
He gave us our black films, he gave us our
our blockbusters. He gave us our films that we could watch.
And you, I heard say in an interview that you
pitched yourself, if you will, to Eddie to be in
Harlem Knights. And what a great decision that was. I
(35:57):
didn't think that was pitching you. I've met in I'm
at a party.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I knew him from before, and I was a little
miffed that they didn't allow me to audition and that
role was given to Michael Michelle by the time I
saw Eddie and he said, well, congratulations, how is it feeled?
(36:22):
You know, I don't know, it's like People magazine cover
or something. And I said, I would feel better if
I could auditioned for you. That was very insulting to
me that you wouldn't see me and it gave a
wrong message to my agents, and you know, is there
(36:42):
a problem kind of thing, because out of respect, I'm
asking to audition at least see me. So at the
time I said that to him, it was already done
and I was just voiceing how I felt about it.
And it was happening more and more with black men
(37:03):
in Hollywood that I was seeing on a social level.
So they were I said, yeah, but you're seeing me
as me. You got to bring me in and see
if I can play the character. And the white directors
brought me in because they didn't know me personally. Well,
let's see if she.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
She can do it.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And I just wanted that same opportunity. And then Eddie
calledby and and gave.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Me the role.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Well yeah, it was a little messy, and and I
was thrilled that was in it. But I was like, well,
I don't know, yes, that's another true story.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Well that's fine, and well they gave you. It went
the way it's supposed to go. And I'm sure that
happens often, that's not I'm sure, I know. Yeah, so
I but I love that because once again, there we
are telling some really great stories that we probably knew
nothing about. And we're talking about Harlem, the mecca for
the culture and for us who aren't able to travel
(38:15):
or live in different areas. Like to me, I grew
up in California. New York was a year. It was
It was a lifetime away because you know, my family
didn't travel. It felt like a lifetime away to feel
and hear about this place called Harlem where we can
do all these fun things and dance and singing and
cut up.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Well, where's this mecca? Where can I go to be
a part of that? Again? Important and so needed.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
Now, every champion and carry champion is to be a champion,
a champion and carry chappion and carry Chatty outa champion
and carry Chappion and carry Chappy's sports and entertainment can naked, We're.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
Very champion.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
And Carrie Champion is to be a champion of Champion
and Carrie chat Champion and care with.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Champion and carried.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Or.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I would like to know one other story.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
When you were on different world, and I know that
you don't have much time, but I that you are
on a different world. You met this this guy by
the name of Tupac shit Kor and I had the
opportunity of meeting him twice. Both times I was a teenager,
I was like sixteen and eighteen, and he always had
something special about him, and he was always very polite
like and I was I was just a kid who
(39:31):
was a fan. And he was very polite, I remember,
very approachable. And you tell the story of how he
and you became friends because he was always hanging out
with Jada on set, Jada Pinkett, and he used your home,
the families, the Shakors used your home as a place
of refuge after he was shot, and and you talked
(39:54):
about the book you wrote. Can you tell me a
little bit about that relationship with a female and Tupac
and why he knew that he could find solace with you.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Well, when I met him, he did an episode of
a Different World, and then I saw him outside in
the real world, and I was hearing murmurings about he's
just playing himself. He ain't all that, he's just playing himself.
(40:25):
And I said, well, do you know how hard it
is to make you think that that character really is
a person you were making. I thought he was a
great actor and I just wanted him to know that.
I said, you have to focus on that challenge too,
because the rappers were getting movies back then, and not
(40:50):
everybody could act. They were using the popularity of their name,
you know, but those that could did and you could
see it, you know, the transition that will Smith made,
the transition that Ice Cube made, the transition Ice Team made,
but not everybody could sustain it. And I always thought
(41:16):
Tupac was going to be a film star producer, you know,
go in the path of his his contemporaries that are
now on that level, creating their own material, learning the business,
learning from the music business, and applying it to movies
and film you know, like fifty cent. I think he
(41:39):
had that kind of mind to do. And he was
still very yelling, I member when he was like twenty
two or something, you know, so a lot of what
we talked about was that, and he would tell me
things to that I should be doing that I didn't
see for myself, you know. He was like, stop talking
(42:01):
about all these other girls. We didn't get that way
about you because I had a kind of category for
that leading lady, you know, Vanessa Williams, Robin Gibbons, you know,
and I was like, I've got to learn how to
how to what that is that you know? How you
(42:22):
say you're just say yeah that you you know? And
so I was studying them because I always saw myself
as a character actor, and the broader the character, the better,
you know. After Whitley, I wanted to play crackhead. After
the Crackhead, I wanted to play a teacher. I didn't
want to always be the girlfriend of I kind of
(42:46):
didn't know what to do with that, actually, So we
had that discussion a lot about not seeing myself as
that and almost preferring a supportive role that I understood
and knew I could add to, as opposed to a
look that fit with something but nothing really to play yeah,
(43:11):
you know nothing. So we had interesting conversations and I
really saw that for him and.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
The star, here's the star, and he made such a
such star and he made such a huge impact in
a short period of time. And sometimes you think maybe
those legends don't deserve to have a long life, and
just what they do is what is meant for us
to interpret. You said that you liked the fax special
to me, Dear Mama, sup.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Superb, superb.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
I agree, perb.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
I didn't realize how smart a Fina was, and I
just thank you for all that you've been able to do.
I know you have to go, but thank you so
much for just what you've contributed to us and the
inspiration you've given to us.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
And that Alan Hughes direct that that Docky series was
rod yet it was and there his view was a trip.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I was it? Why it? Why?
Speaker 7 (44:08):
Well, I'm glad you decided to do this because he
digit's early videos, Brenda had a baby and all that,
and for them to fall out the way they did, you.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
Know, literally beat him up on set. Only Alan could
tell that story. I'm all like, wait, you mean to
tell me he beat you? Hear I've heard the rumors.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
And it was just beautiful.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
It was beautiful, and I know it had to be
embarrassing or painful, but only he could have given us
that that insight that we needed.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
And so with that being said, I just thank you.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
You've touched everyone that we've known and loved in the
culture and still do and we support you. Congratulations on
the Emmy that you received in January. Congratulations on the
HBCU tour. From my understanding, that's in April. The second tour.
You'll be at Howard University in April. Is there anything
else that we should be looking out for. I know
you're on Harlem, you talked about that. That's on am On.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Well, I'm doing a series of Christmas movies and I film.
I'm filming the third one in Africa. We're going on
the Destination Christmas and it's about the West Leave Family,
starring me and Dorian Wilson as the mother and father
of three kids and TC Carson and I love doing it.
(45:26):
I mean, I really feel like they're my family and
we have a great time and I'm glad I get
to do that soon, like next week, I'm going to Africa.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Where where in Africa? Are you going?
Speaker 3 (45:37):
South Africa?
Speaker 2 (45:38):
So good for you.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Enjoy enjoy and I enjoyed doing this interview.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
You're wonderful, You're great, beautiful, talented.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
I received that.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Nobody's asking me, so I appreciate that that.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
So again, go out and support Jasmine Guy.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
If you guys gonna be in uh in the DC area,
you can look it up online hbcur I saw her
put it on her Instagram, the Jasmine Guy that they
were going to Howard. I think it's sometime in April
April ninth. Maybe I think that would be great. I
think that's always wonderful to see someone who inspired so
many people to head to an HBCU, to head to college, period,
(46:17):
but to an HBCU, go and talk to those at
an HBCU. She gave life. I believe Bill Cosby different world.
Gosby Show gave life to HBCUs And I know that
history will not remember Cosby in that in that way.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
But I will tell you two things can be true.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
He could be what people do not like and despise,
but he can also be someone who really encouraged our
culture to be better and do more.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Two things can be true.
Speaker 4 (46:46):
I often say that on the podcast it's disappointing that Hollywood,
much like much of society and many institutions, can't appreciate
the culture and what it brings to the main the world.
Meaning when Fox needed all that black talent in shows
and programming, they had no problem greenlighting those shows because
(47:07):
they were in neat and all of that black talent
and all those black shows helped build that network. Much
like My Good Girl Angela RAI will say we built
this joint for free. Talking about the city in which
the America and which we live in. We built this
joint for free social respect and so with that being said,
I show nothing but respect to Jasmine Guy. I am
(47:30):
so grateful for her that she came on the podcast
and shared some stories. For me personally, it's like, give
me the inside, break down that fourth wall, let me
see what's happening, because these are the shows that I
grew up on that met so much to me. And
quite frankly, everyone is living off the fruit of what
Jasmine Guy and all of the characters in a different
(47:50):
world in the Cosmme Show were able to do. We're
getting smarter and better, though work is just getting more scarce.
Perhaps we'll have another renaissance if you will for listening
to Naked. We'll be back next Monday.
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