August 1, 2025 • 20 mins
Hosts Angela Rye, Andrew Gillum, and Tiffany ask: Why Do Some Black People Feel Like “White is Right”?
In too many folks' eyes, a thing ain’t good until it’s been adopted by mainstream (white) culture. The same news story that makes waves on CNN falls flat on BET. The same person buying a fancy sweater from Ralph Lauren will scoff at House of Gray. Black folks are not immune to this, those who automatically trust a white doctor (or other specialist) over a Black one, for example.
We have some serious deprogramming to do y’all, start here with us.
If you’d like to submit a question, check out our tutorial video: www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/
Welcome home y’all!
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Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.
Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:
Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native lamppod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media. Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome home, y'all. It is Native Lands mini pod that
drops every week. Many many, many many mini pods can do.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
He does that.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
He's disruptive, he likes being disrupted.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
For our one hundredth episode, Can I just.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Say Andrew to be one of the most polite people
I've ever met when we hit record on this podcast.
I don't know who you morphed into. It's a grimlin.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
He's disruptive.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
No, I morphed into a young brother who wants to
pester you.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
On that note, being pestered, Yes, we have two things. One,
what are we going to do for the hundredth episode?
But that is right, that's something to consider. Two next week,
I believe it in next week or the week after
is the holiday and national holidays?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
White chairs?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What are we doing for that? Wouldn't it beautiful if
our one hundredth episode, But it doesn't. It doesn't go.
You know what we need to.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Ask, you know, we should ask if it will let
us use that picture of Momo in that white chair
for the chair episode.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I know she won't, but we could. She never shows
the babies, but I do like it. Well anyway, there's
a heads up that we have this this holiday coming up,
but for this particular episode. You know, on this week
on the podcast, we were talking about like black elitism.
We had that great interview with Lanny Smith from I'm
Actively Black. Thank you guys for tuning in and weighing
(01:47):
in with your thoughts there. I'm still going through and
sifting through comments, so I appreciate, uh, the input that
you guys always have. But it did kind of we
had a few different threads. It led us to a
few different places when it comes to community. And one
thing we talked about was that Angela, you kind of
(02:07):
perked up when we said this, when we talked about
during my time at BT, we had to be all
things to off people. And when it came to news
and information, Black people like their information validated by white folks. Yes,
like we could do the same programming, but if it
was on CNN, then it was legit. And I just
(02:28):
wonder why that is, what's the danger in that? Where
did that come from? Obviously white supremacy, It can it
be disrupted? How do we disrupt it in a lot
of ways. It has been disrupted. You know, social media
certainly democratized who has a voice and who gets the
way in. But that came with a lot of challenges
because people call themselves journalists are not journalists. You having
(02:51):
a cell phone and a podcast does not make you
a journalist. Citizen journalism where people are like reporting who
don't really know how to capture a story. I think
these things are great because it's access to information, but
you have to know how to decipher and intermix that.
So I don't know I and you know we saw
people get do you like take advantage and spread disinformation
(03:13):
intentionally or unintentionally in doing things like that? So it
seems like a sticky time and a sticky topic.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I appreciate this topic for a number of reasons. What
it reminds me of is white validation by black people
hasn't always only been sought in the news space. I
can think of a time growing up where I heard
elders say things like no, I need my doctor to
be white, right, and it is scary, Like I strive
(03:44):
to find black medical professionals and black lawyers, and like
I like for my team to be black, and so
it is. It's jarring to hear people say that, you know,
white ice or show white ice is colder and that
white is right. And I don't just think it is
isolated to the new space. I wonder if some of
(04:05):
that just has to do with like slavery mentality, right,
like if you people cozied up to Massa, because if
they did, maybe that meant their lives would be saved,
literally saved. Maybe that meant their families wouldn't be broken up.
I don't know where it comes from, but it does
make me very uncomfortable, especially when you heard Lanny say
(04:27):
on the show, right, like thirty billion dollars we spend
thirty billion dollars on on on apparel in our community,
and yes, apparel and shoes the thing that also just
comes to mind, and now I feel like I'm hopping
all over the place. Vince Evans sent me something on
Instagram the other day of an entity that was holding
(04:48):
like a back to school drive for clothes and shoes,
but they were giving out nikes. You know, people started
waking waiting in that line at nine pm the night before, right,
and we had to really really promote, like giving away
food or paying a light bill or whatever. And the
question really was that was thought of? Is what would
(05:11):
have happened if we would have been given away sneakers?
So I think I do want to understand, like, what
is our attachment to looking good? Have we assigned you know,
psychology to how we appear if we look the part,
does that mean we ready to really, you know, play
the part a little better? What is it about white
(05:31):
supremacist mentality and structures that have made us think that
that's better collectively? Not me as an individual, I've said that,
but yeah, I'm curious to understand y'all's thoughts about this
white validation model and how he disrupted.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I just want to say, because you referenced Vince a lot,
Vince Evans is incorrect me, You's wrong. He's the executive
director of the Congressional Black Caucus. Yes, somebody you work
with on stage of People tour, and as you all know,
I mentioned it a few times. Angela used to be
executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, so he is
her successor. Many times baby shout out to.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Events, thank you the boss. Sorry, Andrew, No, no, I
met him on Andrew's campaign that's another thing.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Sorry was a rattler and a very very smart political strategist,
so they're lucky to have them. Angelau raised, I thought, too,
you may you may have stated them as one, but
I felt like two different strands of this, which were
sort of the value or the stock we put on presentation,
(06:33):
how we look brand that includes brands that include labels
that includes color of the bottom of your shoe, you know,
and so on and so forth. And then I think
there is probably the question that is encompassing of this all,
which is where did we learn that white was right?
(06:56):
And that didn't mean that other things weren't right, but
it needed to be measured up against. When did we
make the Eurocentric standard the ruler by which all things
are to be measured. It's a sad acknowledgment. It is
a true acknowledgment, however, and I think for those who
(07:19):
it is not true, for meaning those in our community
who resist that have to resist it actively. And the
reason why I say it has to be actively resisted
this mentality is this white pejoritarian and majoritarian view of
where we put value, is that society in every single
(07:41):
way reinforces white is right in every single way. If
a black person does this thing, it's looked at as
criminal ghetto. I can't believe they tried it. Tiffany referenced
this in our main episode this week, where she said,
had b Et spun off with Real Housewives franchise and
(08:03):
began with the Real Housewives of Atlanta or Potomac or whatever,
she is absolutely right. We would have blown be Et
up and basically said, you are bastardizing our black women
who have achieved certain levels of success in our society,
and now you're telling the rest of the world that
all we do is fight, that all we can manage
(08:26):
doing is yelling at each other, backstabbing each other, and
talking about each other behind each other's back. That's what
you're telling the world that we are. Andy Cohen does it,
and it's like everybody's a celebrity now, right, everybody you know,
they're the hottest thing since you know slight spread. So
what I mean by actively resistant is you actually have
(08:49):
to play through your mind the scenario of like questioning,
why did I do a thing a certain way? Why
do I feel like in order to go into this establishment,
I have to look like this when there's not even
a dress code that would dictate such right. But I
mentally told myself, from a standpoint of value, in bringing
(09:10):
value and being seen as a person of value, this
is how I have to look and moreover, this is
how I have to comport myself. We talked about Rolf
Lauren Polo. I think about the fact that ral Lauren has,
you know, done all these Olympic uniforms. I don't know
for how many years it's been doing it, but for
as long as I can remember, I just remember summer
Olympics uniforms being done by Ralph Lauren Polo Polo, Ralph Lauren,
(09:35):
and they're so in my pinch opinion, Nantucket versus Martha's
Vineyard and the way they look and what you know,
I don't necessarily associate. It isn't like, that's not my
version of Americana. If I have a version of Americana, right,
or what I would say, what would be my version
(09:56):
of Patriotism? Right? That doesn't it didn't necessarily reflect me.
But it is very apple pie American apple pie, and
athletes galore, black, white and otherwise don them and they
don't have a choice. They have to domn them. And
then all of us who are viewing it. They make
up our minds since we saw lebron in it and
(10:18):
everybody else that now this is the status this is
the new status quo. And anything anything that isn't it
is a knockoff. And by the way, when we apply
that to products then that are produced by black people,
it's worse than a knockoff, right, it fell off a truck.
(10:38):
When it comes to how we view stuff that comes
from black folks, it's so deep. And this is why
we're saying this is really it's an impossible challenge for
black entrepreneurs when you're selling a product, because you are
really trying to you can't just focus on the perfection
of the thing you're selling. You're also having to certainly,
if you're leading with black you're going to have to
(11:01):
change mindsets in so many ways. And I know that
there are listeners who say, I go out of my
way and I buy blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah. And if you do, salute to you. But
I will tell you, and I don't have quantitative data
to point to other than what was quoted earlier, the
thirty billion that we spend in this area and black
companies getting less than one billion, less than one percon
(11:23):
one billion of that of that thirty, I don't have
any data to support it, but I'll just say you
are the exception to the rule. You're the overwhelming exception
to the rule. And y'all, I think we absolutely have
to have to have some education in reprogramming and reimagining
(11:44):
ourselves and our value through our lens that we then
start to convince ourselves as the majority lens and frankly,
anything that doesn't agree with us don't matter. That's how
I am as a rattler, as a family one. If
you ain't go, if you ain't, don't care where you went.
Morehouse spellman, y'are great, you had a great experience, but
it wasn't fam you. That's how I feel about my institution.
(12:07):
They inculcated that in me, and that's how we're going
to have to feel about ourselves and the products we produce,
the value.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
But even outside the part, because I think it's a
very distinct difference conversation with the conversation we had on
the main show. I think the the it's more of
the concepts, you know, not the products we pretty which
I think is a great conversation that we had this week.
But just to draw the distinction, it is a mind
shift that has to happen, and I don't Yeah, I
(12:38):
think like we what do you call it?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
A re education? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yes, And I think you've spoken to that and the
conversation I always reference I write about with your perspective
of a lack of imagination among us because of all
(13:05):
we've known, and you know I talked a bit about
that and from the book Sky Full of Elephants by c.
Bu Campbell, where you can tap into your imagination and
you get to ponder who are we if not in
reference to them? Who are we? If we are not
responding to something? Who are we? When we get to
(13:27):
be free? You know, I feel like this when anytime
I'm on the continent, like there, you don't have you
can't give that head nod to everybody they like yo, okay, hello, hello?
Do you do like we all black and you're like,
you know, but here it's such a tight knit community
and we have been so robbed of our fragility, of
our safety that when we see each other, it is
(13:47):
an acknowledgment to you one, I see you two you're
you're safe because if some shit goes down, I don't
know you, but I know you and I got your
back and we're together. And three I am yours and
you are mine. I think we have to start there.
And I wonder, honestly, if we're losing a bit of that,
(14:11):
you know, with younger generations, with some of our our
social norms and more's that have been disrupted. I don't
go to church, and I know a lot of families,
like they don't take their kids to church every Sunday.
I grew up going to church, but now I don't
go to church every Sunday, And so I wonder, like
for all and none of my friends do. My friends
(14:31):
and their kids, none of them, they are not at
church every Sunday, And so I wonder do they know
if I said to them God is good? Would they
know how to respond?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
They'd like, yes, yes, yes, yes, right right.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Perhaps they might. But that's such a cornerstone of who
we were, Like even if you're not Christian, if you
are not a believer, it's like how the Jewish community
it can be a faith and a culture like Black
church is a part of our culture. Even if you
if you don't go. And as we advance and you know,
(15:05):
just move on into society, I wonder are we losing
some of that as we make our culture heavily available
across social media anybody. It used to be our secret,
Now it's anybody can tap into it. Are we diluting
it by sharing it? And these are another thread? And
that was the conversation. Yeah, like that was the conversation
(15:27):
to you know, how to protect, acknowledge and celebrate our
culture within us, not necessarily from a product standpoint, But.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I think we've done that, as I think Black people
have for as long as I remember, haven't had a
problem seeing each other, feeling protection, fe seeing the acknowledgment.
I still think we're perplexed and are still overcome by
this idea that we can see each other, love each other,
protect each other and still think white is the right. Yeah,
(16:01):
there has to be the validation, has to be the
stand approval.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Do you I shouldn't say don't you guys? Let me
not ask a leading question. Do you all feel that
part of that comes from deep rooted fear? Like do
we do we like? Do we think that people earnestly
believe that white is safer? Better you know or do
do people make that decision? And by we again, I'm
(16:25):
noting about the three callsts, but when we try to
examine the sociology or the psychology this, really do we
think that it comes from like hedging their.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Bets what's allowed? I think it all comes like Okay, absolutely,
I think that way about voting. I think that way
about business. I think that way about all things. I
think at the root of it very much so it
has to do with what they're allowing. They're allowing this,
and so long as the goalposts again, so long as
you are the thing by which everything is measured against,
(16:58):
what's legal, what's not, what's acceptable, what's not right, what's
the right institution to attend to be considered elite? And
what is it? So if they're setting and again, like
I said, every way society reinforces this.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I'm not trying to cut you out, but think about
even black banks. Like think like we have friends who
are very educated. Y'all got elite friends. If you talk
to them about putting their money in black banks, especially
before twenty twenty, what's some of the stuff you heard back.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I'm not going to say on this spot, but like.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Some people would say, like I might lose my money
if I do. That is, if FDIC ain't there.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Don't apply.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I think that's a good point, and I actually think
black banks and black finances is a whole other mini.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Pod that we need to have lawyers, black doctors specialist.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It's really about white validation regardless of the industry, right,
it's a broad I was just bringing up another point,
like I can think of the not even just the
response y'all, but the resistance to all of these things
what it's just mentioned.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Anyway, I would love somebody from the financial industry to
come on and talk a little more about black banks.
So whomever is keeping the scroll, let's add black finance
and black banks. But let me just say, I think
my favorite episodes of NLP is when I speak less
and I am learning so much from my two co hosts.
Like anytime that happens where I'm like captivated, like I'm learning,
(18:28):
You're saying, so you're informing me, you know, and opining,
but informing me. And I feel like that that happened
a lot today. So I just want to thank my
co host for this enlightening conversation and the way, oh well,
you know, kind of because I you Andrew made a
smart comment earlier. I was asking Andrew what time is
(18:49):
eighteen thirty and he's like six thirty. I'm like, I know,
but like on the global clock, that's military time, global clock,
and he's like, military clock is the global clock. So
he didn't have to say it was you idiot, it was.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I'm still confusing.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Does he not do that?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Oh? Wait, I got it now. No, I just had
a worse moment. I was like, but it's it's not
the same time for everybody. But that's not the way
it's like you are when you I know, but I
got confused. You said you would say. I was like,
what say all in the same thing. So now I'm back.
You're saying the universal clock, not the universal time. I'm
on it. Yeah, Now here's the question, what time is
(19:29):
it on Saturday? Have you space?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Have you space? Oh?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I don't know. You just ruined the moment.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
All right, Well, Perry and well what welcome home y'all?
That conclude?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Many boy?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
You know what he just did?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
He just about at the end of the show, why
we can't ask.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
All or Gil.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
No, Katy went, I'm messing this up today. My bed.
Y'all didn't sorry on that note, but I wasn't take off.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
We are taking off.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
We are ready for launch.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
This world shuston. We ain't got no problems.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Native Lamb Pod is a production of iHeart Radio and
partnership with Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from my
heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Native lamppod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media. Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome home, y'all. It is Native Lands mini pod that
drops every week. Many many, many many mini pods can do.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
He does that.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
He's disruptive, he likes being disrupted.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
For our one hundredth episode, Can I just.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Say Andrew to be one of the most polite people
I've ever met when we hit record on this podcast.
I don't know who you morphed into. It's a grimlin.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
He's disruptive.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
No, I morphed into a young brother who wants to
pester you.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
On that note, being pestered, Yes, we have two things. One,
what are we going to do for the hundredth episode?
But that is right, that's something to consider. Two next week,
I believe it in next week or the week after
is the holiday and national holidays?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
White chairs?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What are we doing for that? Wouldn't it beautiful if
our one hundredth episode, But it doesn't. It doesn't go.
You know what we need to.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Ask, you know, we should ask if it will let
us use that picture of Momo in that white chair
for the chair episode.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I know she won't, but we could. She never shows
the babies, but I do like it. Well anyway, there's
a heads up that we have this this holiday coming up,
but for this particular episode. You know, on this week
on the podcast, we were talking about like black elitism.
We had that great interview with Lanny Smith from I'm
Actively Black. Thank you guys for tuning in and weighing
(01:47):
in with your thoughts there. I'm still going through and
sifting through comments, so I appreciate, uh, the input that
you guys always have. But it did kind of we
had a few different threads. It led us to a
few different places when it comes to community. And one
thing we talked about was that Angela, you kind of
(02:07):
perked up when we said this, when we talked about
during my time at BT, we had to be all
things to off people. And when it came to news
and information, Black people like their information validated by white folks. Yes,
like we could do the same programming, but if it
was on CNN, then it was legit. And I just
(02:28):
wonder why that is, what's the danger in that? Where
did that come from? Obviously white supremacy, It can it
be disrupted? How do we disrupt it in a lot
of ways. It has been disrupted. You know, social media
certainly democratized who has a voice and who gets the
way in. But that came with a lot of challenges
because people call themselves journalists are not journalists. You having
(02:51):
a cell phone and a podcast does not make you
a journalist. Citizen journalism where people are like reporting who
don't really know how to capture a story. I think
these things are great because it's access to information, but
you have to know how to decipher and intermix that.
So I don't know I and you know we saw
people get do you like take advantage and spread disinformation
(03:13):
intentionally or unintentionally in doing things like that? So it
seems like a sticky time and a sticky topic.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I appreciate this topic for a number of reasons. What
it reminds me of is white validation by black people
hasn't always only been sought in the news space. I
can think of a time growing up where I heard
elders say things like no, I need my doctor to
be white, right, and it is scary, Like I strive
(03:44):
to find black medical professionals and black lawyers, and like
I like for my team to be black, and so
it is. It's jarring to hear people say that, you know,
white ice or show white ice is colder and that
white is right. And I don't just think it is
isolated to the new space. I wonder if some of
(04:05):
that just has to do with like slavery mentality, right,
like if you people cozied up to Massa, because if
they did, maybe that meant their lives would be saved,
literally saved. Maybe that meant their families wouldn't be broken up.
I don't know where it comes from, but it does
make me very uncomfortable, especially when you heard Lanny say
(04:27):
on the show, right, like thirty billion dollars we spend
thirty billion dollars on on on apparel in our community,
and yes, apparel and shoes the thing that also just
comes to mind, and now I feel like I'm hopping
all over the place. Vince Evans sent me something on
Instagram the other day of an entity that was holding
(04:48):
like a back to school drive for clothes and shoes,
but they were giving out nikes. You know, people started
waking waiting in that line at nine pm the night before, right,
and we had to really really promote, like giving away
food or paying a light bill or whatever. And the
question really was that was thought of? Is what would
(05:11):
have happened if we would have been given away sneakers?
So I think I do want to understand, like, what
is our attachment to looking good? Have we assigned you know,
psychology to how we appear if we look the part,
does that mean we ready to really, you know, play
the part a little better? What is it about white
(05:31):
supremacist mentality and structures that have made us think that
that's better collectively? Not me as an individual, I've said that,
but yeah, I'm curious to understand y'all's thoughts about this
white validation model and how he disrupted.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I just want to say, because you referenced Vince a lot,
Vince Evans is incorrect me, You's wrong. He's the executive
director of the Congressional Black Caucus. Yes, somebody you work
with on stage of People tour, and as you all know,
I mentioned it a few times. Angela used to be
executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, so he is
her successor. Many times baby shout out to.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Events, thank you the boss. Sorry, Andrew, No, no, I
met him on Andrew's campaign that's another thing.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Sorry was a rattler and a very very smart political strategist,
so they're lucky to have them. Angelau raised, I thought, too,
you may you may have stated them as one, but
I felt like two different strands of this, which were
sort of the value or the stock we put on presentation,
(06:33):
how we look brand that includes brands that include labels
that includes color of the bottom of your shoe, you know,
and so on and so forth. And then I think
there is probably the question that is encompassing of this all,
which is where did we learn that white was right?
(06:56):
And that didn't mean that other things weren't right, but
it needed to be measured up against. When did we
make the Eurocentric standard the ruler by which all things
are to be measured. It's a sad acknowledgment. It is
a true acknowledgment, however, and I think for those who
(07:19):
it is not true, for meaning those in our community
who resist that have to resist it actively. And the
reason why I say it has to be actively resisted
this mentality is this white pejoritarian and majoritarian view of
where we put value, is that society in every single
(07:41):
way reinforces white is right in every single way. If
a black person does this thing, it's looked at as
criminal ghetto. I can't believe they tried it. Tiffany referenced
this in our main episode this week, where she said,
had b Et spun off with Real Housewives franchise and
(08:03):
began with the Real Housewives of Atlanta or Potomac or whatever,
she is absolutely right. We would have blown be Et
up and basically said, you are bastardizing our black women
who have achieved certain levels of success in our society,
and now you're telling the rest of the world that
all we do is fight, that all we can manage
(08:26):
doing is yelling at each other, backstabbing each other, and
talking about each other behind each other's back. That's what
you're telling the world that we are. Andy Cohen does it,
and it's like everybody's a celebrity now, right, everybody you know,
they're the hottest thing since you know slight spread. So
what I mean by actively resistant is you actually have
(08:49):
to play through your mind the scenario of like questioning,
why did I do a thing a certain way? Why
do I feel like in order to go into this establishment,
I have to look like this when there's not even
a dress code that would dictate such right. But I
mentally told myself, from a standpoint of value, in bringing
(09:10):
value and being seen as a person of value, this
is how I have to look and moreover, this is
how I have to comport myself. We talked about Rolf
Lauren Polo. I think about the fact that ral Lauren has,
you know, done all these Olympic uniforms. I don't know
for how many years it's been doing it, but for
as long as I can remember, I just remember summer
Olympics uniforms being done by Ralph Lauren Polo Polo, Ralph Lauren,
(09:35):
and they're so in my pinch opinion, Nantucket versus Martha's
Vineyard and the way they look and what you know,
I don't necessarily associate. It isn't like, that's not my
version of Americana. If I have a version of Americana, right,
or what I would say, what would be my version
(09:56):
of Patriotism? Right? That doesn't it didn't necessarily reflect me.
But it is very apple pie American apple pie, and
athletes galore, black, white and otherwise don them and they
don't have a choice. They have to domn them. And
then all of us who are viewing it. They make
up our minds since we saw lebron in it and
(10:18):
everybody else that now this is the status this is
the new status quo. And anything anything that isn't it
is a knockoff. And by the way, when we apply
that to products then that are produced by black people,
it's worse than a knockoff, right, it fell off a truck.
(10:38):
When it comes to how we view stuff that comes
from black folks, it's so deep. And this is why
we're saying this is really it's an impossible challenge for
black entrepreneurs when you're selling a product, because you are
really trying to you can't just focus on the perfection
of the thing you're selling. You're also having to certainly,
if you're leading with black you're going to have to
(11:01):
change mindsets in so many ways. And I know that
there are listeners who say, I go out of my
way and I buy blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah. And if you do, salute to you. But
I will tell you, and I don't have quantitative data
to point to other than what was quoted earlier, the
thirty billion that we spend in this area and black
companies getting less than one billion, less than one percon
(11:23):
one billion of that of that thirty, I don't have
any data to support it, but I'll just say you
are the exception to the rule. You're the overwhelming exception
to the rule. And y'all, I think we absolutely have
to have to have some education in reprogramming and reimagining
(11:44):
ourselves and our value through our lens that we then
start to convince ourselves as the majority lens and frankly,
anything that doesn't agree with us don't matter. That's how
I am as a rattler, as a family one. If
you ain't go, if you ain't, don't care where you went.
Morehouse spellman, y'are great, you had a great experience, but
it wasn't fam you. That's how I feel about my institution.
(12:07):
They inculcated that in me, and that's how we're going
to have to feel about ourselves and the products we produce,
the value.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
But even outside the part, because I think it's a
very distinct difference conversation with the conversation we had on
the main show. I think the the it's more of
the concepts, you know, not the products we pretty which
I think is a great conversation that we had this week.
But just to draw the distinction, it is a mind
shift that has to happen, and I don't Yeah, I
(12:38):
think like we what do you call it?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
A re education? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yes, And I think you've spoken to that and the
conversation I always reference I write about with your perspective
of a lack of imagination among us because of all
(13:05):
we've known, and you know I talked a bit about
that and from the book Sky Full of Elephants by c.
Bu Campbell, where you can tap into your imagination and
you get to ponder who are we if not in
reference to them? Who are we? If we are not
responding to something? Who are we? When we get to
(13:27):
be free? You know, I feel like this when anytime
I'm on the continent, like there, you don't have you
can't give that head nod to everybody they like yo, okay, hello, hello?
Do you do like we all black and you're like,
you know, but here it's such a tight knit community
and we have been so robbed of our fragility, of
our safety that when we see each other, it is
(13:47):
an acknowledgment to you one, I see you two you're
you're safe because if some shit goes down, I don't
know you, but I know you and I got your
back and we're together. And three I am yours and
you are mine. I think we have to start there.
And I wonder, honestly, if we're losing a bit of that,
(14:11):
you know, with younger generations, with some of our our
social norms and more's that have been disrupted. I don't
go to church, and I know a lot of families,
like they don't take their kids to church every Sunday.
I grew up going to church, but now I don't
go to church every Sunday, And so I wonder, like
for all and none of my friends do. My friends
(14:31):
and their kids, none of them, they are not at
church every Sunday, And so I wonder do they know
if I said to them God is good? Would they
know how to respond?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
They'd like, yes, yes, yes, yes, right right.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Perhaps they might. But that's such a cornerstone of who
we were, Like even if you're not Christian, if you
are not a believer, it's like how the Jewish community
it can be a faith and a culture like Black
church is a part of our culture. Even if you
if you don't go. And as we advance and you know,
(15:05):
just move on into society, I wonder are we losing
some of that as we make our culture heavily available
across social media anybody. It used to be our secret,
Now it's anybody can tap into it. Are we diluting
it by sharing it? And these are another thread? And
that was the conversation. Yeah, like that was the conversation
(15:27):
to you know, how to protect, acknowledge and celebrate our
culture within us, not necessarily from a product standpoint, But.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I think we've done that, as I think Black people
have for as long as I remember, haven't had a
problem seeing each other, feeling protection, fe seeing the acknowledgment.
I still think we're perplexed and are still overcome by
this idea that we can see each other, love each other,
protect each other and still think white is the right. Yeah,
(16:01):
there has to be the validation, has to be the
stand approval.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Do you I shouldn't say don't you guys? Let me
not ask a leading question. Do you all feel that
part of that comes from deep rooted fear? Like do
we do we like? Do we think that people earnestly
believe that white is safer? Better you know or do
do people make that decision? And by we again, I'm
(16:25):
noting about the three callsts, but when we try to
examine the sociology or the psychology this, really do we
think that it comes from like hedging their.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Bets what's allowed? I think it all comes like Okay, absolutely,
I think that way about voting. I think that way
about business. I think that way about all things. I
think at the root of it very much so it
has to do with what they're allowing. They're allowing this,
and so long as the goalposts again, so long as
you are the thing by which everything is measured against,
(16:58):
what's legal, what's not, what's acceptable, what's not right, what's
the right institution to attend to be considered elite? And
what is it? So if they're setting and again, like
I said, every way society reinforces this.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I'm not trying to cut you out, but think about
even black banks. Like think like we have friends who
are very educated. Y'all got elite friends. If you talk
to them about putting their money in black banks, especially
before twenty twenty, what's some of the stuff you heard back.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I'm not going to say on this spot, but like.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Some people would say, like I might lose my money
if I do. That is, if FDIC ain't there.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Don't apply.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I think that's a good point, and I actually think
black banks and black finances is a whole other mini.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Pod that we need to have lawyers, black doctors specialist.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It's really about white validation regardless of the industry, right,
it's a broad I was just bringing up another point,
like I can think of the not even just the
response y'all, but the resistance to all of these things
what it's just mentioned.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Anyway, I would love somebody from the financial industry to
come on and talk a little more about black banks.
So whomever is keeping the scroll, let's add black finance
and black banks. But let me just say, I think
my favorite episodes of NLP is when I speak less
and I am learning so much from my two co hosts.
Like anytime that happens where I'm like captivated, like I'm learning,
(18:28):
You're saying, so you're informing me, you know, and opining,
but informing me. And I feel like that that happened
a lot today. So I just want to thank my
co host for this enlightening conversation and the way, oh well,
you know, kind of because I you Andrew made a
smart comment earlier. I was asking Andrew what time is
(18:49):
eighteen thirty and he's like six thirty. I'm like, I know,
but like on the global clock, that's military time, global clock,
and he's like, military clock is the global clock. So
he didn't have to say it was you idiot, it was.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I'm still confusing.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Does he not do that?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Oh? Wait, I got it now. No, I just had
a worse moment. I was like, but it's it's not
the same time for everybody. But that's not the way
it's like you are when you I know, but I
got confused. You said you would say. I was like,
what say all in the same thing. So now I'm back.
You're saying the universal clock, not the universal time. I'm
on it. Yeah, Now here's the question, what time is
(19:29):
it on Saturday? Have you space?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Have you space? Oh?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I don't know. You just ruined the moment.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
All right, Well, Perry and well what welcome home y'all?
That conclude?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Many boy?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
You know what he just did?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
He just about at the end of the show, why
we can't ask.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
All or Gil.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
No, Katy went, I'm messing this up today. My bed.
Y'all didn't sorry on that note, but I wasn't take off.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
We are taking off.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
We are ready for launch.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
This world shuston. We ain't got no problems.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Native Lamb Pod is a production of iHeart Radio and
partnership with Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from my
heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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