March 14, 2025 • 16 mins
Racism, Race-baiting, and Why Is It All About Race Anyway?
Our hosts Angela Rye, Andrew Gillum, and Tiffany cross weigh the age-old question: can Black people be racist? Well first it depends what we mean when we say “racism.”
Moreover, why is it that every time someone tries to point out structural racism online, some troll just has to accuse them of “race-baiting”? Let’s talk about it.
If you’d like to submit a question, check out our tutorial video: www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/
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Angela Rye as host, executive producer, and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Thank you to Mark Cantin, Dylan Ungar, and the iHeart Video team. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Resent Choice Medium.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome home, y'all. It is another Native Lamppod Mini Pod.
I'm Angela Raie. There's Tivity Cross and Andrew Gillim and
today we are going to ask an age old question,
can black people be racist? I'm gonna start with Andrew.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
No, you don't.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He never wants to answer new question comet.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Only because you know how like I feel like social scientists,
black social scientists have like this construct of black people
cannot be racist against themselves because we are not in
a position of power, and racism is part of a
structure that is intended to produce a certain outcome, largely
(00:53):
one that does not include us as a part of
the beneficiary of Whatever the outcomes are, it should be positive.
So social scientists tell us one way. But I guess
if I were thinking about it in Layman's terms, and
I was just thinking, are there attitudes that black folks
can have that are negative toward one another based off
(01:17):
of some things the way they dress, where they're from,
what's side of the tracks they grew up on, what
schools they went to or didn't go to. If that
were the framing, I would say, yes, we can, we
can demonstrate classes and bigoted opinions. But I just I
feel like I feel like I'm wrong for even saying
(01:39):
we could be racist, because I've read so many social
scientists who say it's impossible what you think? Can we
be racist? In the traditional construct? Or in the one
I just made up, which was basically the solitudes about.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So it's a complicated answer, right, I don't think it's
yes or no. In the traditional construct, No, because there
is no construct in which black people went over to Europe,
kidnapped a bunch of people, raped them, beat the humanity
out of them, and created this global infrastructure to produce
(02:13):
their wealth and create a power structure where we would
have that kind of reach. So in the traditional sense, no,
I do, however, think yes, there are instances in which
black people can be racist in which they exercise are
we I should say, we exercise our power or authority
over other groups I And I've seen people say things
(02:41):
can have racist attitudes, prejudiced attitudes about other groups of people,
the Latino community, API community, indigenous community.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
So the even the Arab community.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
So yes, I don't know if it's racism, but I've
certainly seen and heard black people in engage in hateful language.
Not all, of course, you know, but pockets of Black
people have said and done certain things.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I don't know. Is that racism or is that prejudice.
I don't think it's racism, Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think that's there's the difference between bigotry and discrimination. Yeah,
I think that that is the point. So I want
to read some definitions, if that's okay.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So Mariam Webster says, the meaning of racism is a
belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits
and capacities, and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority
of a particular race. I fundamentally disagree with that definition.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But that's what says.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
I believe that race is a fundamental determinant of human
traits and capacities, and that racial differences produce an inherent
superiority of a particular race. That feels more supremacy than racism.
About Okay, This is what I want to go to
because I think that it is helpful for us sometimes
to step out of an American construct. This is from
the Australian Human Rights Commission. Racism is the process by
(04:05):
which systems and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities
and outcomes for people based on race. To me, that
is racism. It is structural, it is systemic, and that
means Black people cannot be racist. I think that black
people can discriminate. I think that black people can be biggots.
(04:26):
I think that black people can engage, can even like facilitating,
engage in a hate crime. I don't believe that black
people can be racist. I'm rolling with Australian. Maybe that's
where I get my second citizenship. If this keeps going
away that I think is going to.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Average go aheadage, No, I agree, but that's why we
had to deconstruct it. I think all three of us
agree that in the traditional construct of racism, which is
to do with structures, powers, systems, in individual attitudes that
influence all of it, then no, because we're not at
the end where we can manipulate and shift those things.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Okay, So you know, given the fact that I think
that we're basically agreeing by the definition from the Australian
who got their nerve to I understand tip, I saw
you telling me no not to go to Australia. But
at least they have come to terms with the term right,
which is better than what we can say over here.
I think we regularly get in our social media feed
you racist, you race baiter when we hear those kinds
(05:26):
of terms, like what does it mean to be a
race baiter? How would you all respond to, you know,
either any one of us being called a race bator?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
What does it mean?
Speaker 3 (05:37):
And then what do you hear when when that's dropped
into your social media comments?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I get that so often. I gotta be honest. I
pay no attention. I have zero interests in white folks
telling me anything about my attitude on race, race relations anything.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
It's just not what does it mean? Tif, I don't
even know what it means.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I'm being serious.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
This is a genuine what does it mean to be
a ras?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think what it means is they are hearing you
say something us say something largely about a inequality that
exists in the system that makes them uncomfortable, and they're
basically saying, I've had my trials and tribulations. True too,
and I don't blame it on race. I blame it
(06:20):
on you know, a whole other thing before I get
to race. But you all just seem to when you
run up against your struggle, your hardship, your lack of
a promotion, that it happened because you're black.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Yeah, and then here's so here's my question. Now, so
how does that square was?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Like you guys have seen the Department of Justice Office
Civil Rights has said that their new approach is going
to be focused on defending white Christian men. So if
race is not a factor, why would they need to
defend and protect white Christian men? I mean it is
(06:59):
that to me feels like if there was a race baiting.
That to me feels like the race bait because you're.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Trying to toddler crib actually to me, Yeah, why they
want to put they want to put They want to
put pads on their children from the earliest possible point
and a force field around them, so that anything that
could cause them to think more critically about the role
that their ancestors may have played and the world that
(07:27):
we get to live in today, if it offends them,
if it disrupts their sensibilities or makes them to reflect
poorly on themselves, or the choices of their ancestors. Then
that is not something that we want talk to them.
That is not something we want talk to anybody, because
why should they have to carry a burden for something
that they didn't do?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Yeah, hm, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I mean, I'm not a whisperer for white folks. I
just think a lot of times when I.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Sometimes it depends on the episode.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I'm not a whisperer, but I will tell you having
run for governor and a state, folks are eleven percent
of the population, and you've got to talk to a
lot of different people. They're what they really mean. The
direct speak can come out and often does in these
comfortable settings where it's just like, but why does everything
have to be about race? That's a good question. I
(08:20):
have the same same goddamn question.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
That is a good question, Bran.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Do don't we feel based on even when TIF articulated
at the top of this around, like, we didn't go
to Europe and say, Okay, well you're gonna We're gonna
come and enslave you and take you over here because
we feel like, based on whatever bootleg ass research we've done,
that you would be better conditioned and more suitable to
be enslaved. We didn't do that, but they did. And
(08:53):
so from its very foundation, which we of course argue
sixteen and we should also talk about that sixteen nineteen
versus seven teen seventy six. The since sixteen nineteen, right,
that has been the posture that was absolutely about race
killing the quote unquote savages which are indigenous people people
from Indian country. That is absolutely based on race. So
(09:14):
how could they argue anything different or is it just
like now we're going to gaslight you in a racist history.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It's even beyond gas lighting. They have penetrated within our community.
I remember watching Stephen Jackson, a former NBA player at
the time that Maria Taylor, the whole ESPN debacle with
Maria Taylor over. I think her name is Rachel Lindsay
and Steven Jackson.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
No, not Rachel Lindsay, Nichols.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Is it Rachel Nichols, Rachel Rachel's whoever?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Rachel was Rachel Nichols, Rachel and sports expert just got.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Still keep you going, I'm learning.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
I got so much sports knowledge in here. Given all states,
it was crowding up.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, thank you, yes, President, Right.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Stephen Jackson came out and was capin for this white woman.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
And he was like, y'all know, we don't like it
when it happens to us. And you know, Rachel basically
should have got this job.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And I watched with such a disgust because he was equate,
like these two women were the same. He was equating
it like something happened to her. And number one, why
do you feel like your black face and your black
voice needs to be the one to come out here
and defend this woman against a black woman?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
The power structure was all wrong, so you up here
capin to protect white.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Women because black women were privileged in this situation, Like
not at all. I thought Steven Jackson looked like a clown.
And so when I hear things like that, that does
make me want to scream, like black people can't be racist.
But when I say black, when I started the conversation
was like, well, maybe black people can be racist. I'll
tell y'all, I was thinking about that episode of Insecure.
I don't know if y'all watch Insecure when Lisa Ray
(10:58):
do you okay? So Angela, you remember when Lisa was
volunteering at the or doing her program after school program
with the white girl and the principal was funneling only
black students to get all the extra help, and she
was basically like, Okay, well it's a win. But her
white colleague was like, yeah, but he's intentionally leaving out
the Latino students. And she's like, yeah, I get that,
(11:20):
but we need these numbers, we need a win. And
she was saying that's racist, and she was like, black
people can't be racist, and the white girl said, but
you're using a position of power to deny these Latino
students access to.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
This, and I ain't gonna lie to me that was right.
It wasn't.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
The principal was in a position of power in this
particular situation, as was Lisa, because she controlled the budget
for the program, and she was kind She wasn't promoting it,
but she was kind of okay with it the end
of the episode. I mean, I can give y'all spoilers
because it's been off air for a while, but the
end of the episode, she realized like, you know what, No,
I need to be more inclusive and I do need
(11:58):
to include Latino students. We had a whole different conversation
going on right now because right now people are like,
don't talk to me about nobody else but black people
because of what happened is past election. And I have
to say I struggle with that because I have always
had the Fred Hampton approach, bring along everybody, and we
are barely fourteen percent of the population. We can't make
(12:18):
it without allies. So I my harm reduction is how
can we protect our people black people? But also at
what point are we right? Because we could take a minute,
It's fine we pissed off in see election, But at
what point do we say, okay, now we need to
identify allies and lock arms and work together. And I
think we in the throes of figuring that out right now.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
So your cape and comment, Tiffany, and it could be
applied to so many other examples, but it could it
be argued that his position was arguing more about from
a perspective of power than one you know, Steve Jackson
from the Steve Jackson or give you so I have heard,
(13:01):
and this is my belief. I think racism runs the
day up until it runs up against power. And oftentimes
they are and extrictly be connected anyway, at least here
in these Americas. But I feel like people see power
people who they see in power, they analyze what they
(13:24):
think the type of graph of that person is, and
when they are on their climb, they emulate that saying
practice and behavior. You've ever been with a black law
enforcement officer with a badge, boys in the hood. You
can go to Maryland, the Maryland Moseby and the prosecution. Yeah,
(13:53):
Freddy Gray. Absolutely. So. All I'm saying is is that
these are people. You can't say they don't like black people.
They may not like black people, but but but essentially
what is being carried out Wait, I am now in
a position of power. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Wait, Maryland didn't prosecute Freddy Gray.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
No, no, no, no, I'm talking about I'm talking about the
officers who were prosecuted by by yes, the majority of them.
I think we're black, yes, correct, of those law enforcement officers.
And what I'm saying is is I think that our
attitudes behaviors are much more symptomatic of an illustration of
(14:33):
power and what happens when people ascend to levels of
power than it has to do with the race construct,
necessarily when the offender is largely US. I think there
are models of power that the closer you get to it,
and God knows if you get it, you start to
replicate what you believe were the conditions that had the
(14:53):
last guy in power. And it's through a Eurocentric model
which all of us have been taught to to talk
through and to to your point around you can hate
yourself like a black person can hate on other black
There's no doubt about that. In fact, Cartigie Woodson talks
about it in The Miseducation of the Negro. He says,
and you let him to the back door, you don't
(15:13):
have to send him. He will go because his education
makes it necessary. And that's the lasting that's the lasting
effect of racism is that it's been so successful that
you get the people themselves to believe what you have
to say about them.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
It is absolutely the truth.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
I would encourage people to read the Pedagogy of the
Old Press to hear more about this power structure and
what happens when we get into it or when we
reclaim it ourselves. Of course, the biggest fear of white
folks in power is that one day, when we do
have the power, that we would do to them what
they've done to us. So with on that note, the
resounding answer is no, we cannot be racist. Yes, we
(15:53):
can be hateful, and let us work very hard to
overcome hate, because we know that we can't drive sessful
policy and hate. We can only do that with love.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
So on that we.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Welcome you all home into our family. Comment on this,
let us know if you agree with us where we
got it wrong. Most of it was Andrew today, But
we love y'all. God bless you.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Y'all will get to hear it. I'm sorry it's in
the cut.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
That's not true.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's not true.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
We don't do that.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
We don't do that. You're welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Native Land Pod is the production of iHeart Radio and
partnership with Resent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Resent Choice Medium.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome home, y'all. It is another Native Lamppod Mini Pod.
I'm Angela Raie. There's Tivity Cross and Andrew Gillim and
today we are going to ask an age old question,
can black people be racist? I'm gonna start with Andrew.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
No, you don't.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He never wants to answer new question comet.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Only because you know how like I feel like social scientists,
black social scientists have like this construct of black people
cannot be racist against themselves because we are not in
a position of power, and racism is part of a
structure that is intended to produce a certain outcome, largely
(00:53):
one that does not include us as a part of
the beneficiary of Whatever the outcomes are, it should be positive.
So social scientists tell us one way. But I guess
if I were thinking about it in Layman's terms, and
I was just thinking, are there attitudes that black folks
can have that are negative toward one another based off
(01:17):
of some things the way they dress, where they're from,
what's side of the tracks they grew up on, what
schools they went to or didn't go to. If that
were the framing, I would say, yes, we can, we
can demonstrate classes and bigoted opinions. But I just I
feel like I feel like I'm wrong for even saying
(01:39):
we could be racist, because I've read so many social
scientists who say it's impossible what you think? Can we
be racist? In the traditional construct? Or in the one
I just made up, which was basically the solitudes about.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So it's a complicated answer, right, I don't think it's
yes or no. In the traditional construct, No, because there
is no construct in which black people went over to Europe,
kidnapped a bunch of people, raped them, beat the humanity
out of them, and created this global infrastructure to produce
(02:13):
their wealth and create a power structure where we would
have that kind of reach. So in the traditional sense, no,
I do, however, think yes, there are instances in which
black people can be racist in which they exercise are
we I should say, we exercise our power or authority
over other groups I And I've seen people say things
(02:41):
can have racist attitudes, prejudiced attitudes about other groups of people,
the Latino community, API community, indigenous community.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
So the even the Arab community.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
So yes, I don't know if it's racism, but I've
certainly seen and heard black people in engage in hateful language.
Not all, of course, you know, but pockets of Black
people have said and done certain things.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I don't know. Is that racism or is that prejudice.
I don't think it's racism, Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think that's there's the difference between bigotry and discrimination. Yeah,
I think that that is the point. So I want
to read some definitions, if that's okay.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So Mariam Webster says, the meaning of racism is a
belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits
and capacities, and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority
of a particular race. I fundamentally disagree with that definition.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But that's what says.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
I believe that race is a fundamental determinant of human
traits and capacities, and that racial differences produce an inherent
superiority of a particular race. That feels more supremacy than racism.
About Okay, This is what I want to go to
because I think that it is helpful for us sometimes
to step out of an American construct. This is from
the Australian Human Rights Commission. Racism is the process by
(04:05):
which systems and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities
and outcomes for people based on race. To me, that
is racism. It is structural, it is systemic, and that
means Black people cannot be racist. I think that black
people can discriminate. I think that black people can be biggots.
(04:26):
I think that black people can engage, can even like facilitating,
engage in a hate crime. I don't believe that black
people can be racist. I'm rolling with Australian. Maybe that's
where I get my second citizenship. If this keeps going
away that I think is going to.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Average go aheadage, No, I agree, but that's why we
had to deconstruct it. I think all three of us
agree that in the traditional construct of racism, which is
to do with structures, powers, systems, in individual attitudes that
influence all of it, then no, because we're not at
the end where we can manipulate and shift those things.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Okay, So you know, given the fact that I think
that we're basically agreeing by the definition from the Australian
who got their nerve to I understand tip, I saw
you telling me no not to go to Australia. But
at least they have come to terms with the term right,
which is better than what we can say over here.
I think we regularly get in our social media feed
you racist, you race baiter when we hear those kinds
(05:26):
of terms, like what does it mean to be a
race baiter? How would you all respond to, you know,
either any one of us being called a race bator?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
What does it mean?
Speaker 3 (05:37):
And then what do you hear when when that's dropped
into your social media comments?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I get that so often. I gotta be honest. I
pay no attention. I have zero interests in white folks
telling me anything about my attitude on race, race relations anything.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
It's just not what does it mean? Tif, I don't
even know what it means.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I'm being serious.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
This is a genuine what does it mean to be
a ras?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think what it means is they are hearing you
say something us say something largely about a inequality that
exists in the system that makes them uncomfortable, and they're
basically saying, I've had my trials and tribulations. True too,
and I don't blame it on race. I blame it
(06:20):
on you know, a whole other thing before I get
to race. But you all just seem to when you
run up against your struggle, your hardship, your lack of
a promotion, that it happened because you're black.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Yeah, and then here's so here's my question. Now, so
how does that square was?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Like you guys have seen the Department of Justice Office
Civil Rights has said that their new approach is going
to be focused on defending white Christian men. So if
race is not a factor, why would they need to
defend and protect white Christian men? I mean it is
(06:59):
that to me feels like if there was a race baiting.
That to me feels like the race bait because you're.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Trying to toddler crib actually to me, Yeah, why they
want to put they want to put They want to
put pads on their children from the earliest possible point
and a force field around them, so that anything that
could cause them to think more critically about the role
that their ancestors may have played and the world that
(07:27):
we get to live in today, if it offends them,
if it disrupts their sensibilities or makes them to reflect
poorly on themselves, or the choices of their ancestors. Then
that is not something that we want talk to them.
That is not something we want talk to anybody, because
why should they have to carry a burden for something
that they didn't do?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Yeah, hm, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I mean, I'm not a whisperer for white folks. I
just think a lot of times when I.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Sometimes it depends on the episode.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I'm not a whisperer, but I will tell you having
run for governor and a state, folks are eleven percent
of the population, and you've got to talk to a
lot of different people. They're what they really mean. The
direct speak can come out and often does in these
comfortable settings where it's just like, but why does everything
have to be about race? That's a good question. I
(08:20):
have the same same goddamn question.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
That is a good question, Bran.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Do don't we feel based on even when TIF articulated
at the top of this around, like, we didn't go
to Europe and say, Okay, well you're gonna We're gonna
come and enslave you and take you over here because
we feel like, based on whatever bootleg ass research we've done,
that you would be better conditioned and more suitable to
be enslaved. We didn't do that, but they did. And
(08:53):
so from its very foundation, which we of course argue
sixteen and we should also talk about that sixteen nineteen
versus seven teen seventy six. The since sixteen nineteen, right,
that has been the posture that was absolutely about race
killing the quote unquote savages which are indigenous people people
from Indian country. That is absolutely based on race. So
(09:14):
how could they argue anything different or is it just
like now we're going to gaslight you in a racist history.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It's even beyond gas lighting. They have penetrated within our community.
I remember watching Stephen Jackson, a former NBA player at
the time that Maria Taylor, the whole ESPN debacle with
Maria Taylor over. I think her name is Rachel Lindsay
and Steven Jackson.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
No, not Rachel Lindsay, Nichols.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Is it Rachel Nichols, Rachel Rachel's whoever?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Rachel was Rachel Nichols, Rachel and sports expert just got.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Still keep you going, I'm learning.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
I got so much sports knowledge in here. Given all states,
it was crowding up.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, thank you, yes, President, Right.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Stephen Jackson came out and was capin for this white woman.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
And he was like, y'all know, we don't like it
when it happens to us. And you know, Rachel basically
should have got this job.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And I watched with such a disgust because he was equate,
like these two women were the same. He was equating
it like something happened to her. And number one, why
do you feel like your black face and your black
voice needs to be the one to come out here
and defend this woman against a black woman?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
The power structure was all wrong, so you up here
capin to protect white.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Women because black women were privileged in this situation, Like
not at all. I thought Steven Jackson looked like a clown.
And so when I hear things like that, that does
make me want to scream, like black people can't be racist.
But when I say black, when I started the conversation
was like, well, maybe black people can be racist. I'll
tell y'all, I was thinking about that episode of Insecure.
I don't know if y'all watch Insecure when Lisa Ray
(10:58):
do you okay? So Angela, you remember when Lisa was
volunteering at the or doing her program after school program
with the white girl and the principal was funneling only
black students to get all the extra help, and she
was basically like, Okay, well it's a win. But her
white colleague was like, yeah, but he's intentionally leaving out
the Latino students. And she's like, yeah, I get that,
(11:20):
but we need these numbers, we need a win. And
she was saying that's racist, and she was like, black
people can't be racist, and the white girl said, but
you're using a position of power to deny these Latino
students access to.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
This, and I ain't gonna lie to me that was right.
It wasn't.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
The principal was in a position of power in this
particular situation, as was Lisa, because she controlled the budget
for the program, and she was kind She wasn't promoting it,
but she was kind of okay with it the end
of the episode. I mean, I can give y'all spoilers
because it's been off air for a while, but the
end of the episode, she realized like, you know what, No,
I need to be more inclusive and I do need
(11:58):
to include Latino students. We had a whole different conversation
going on right now because right now people are like,
don't talk to me about nobody else but black people
because of what happened is past election. And I have
to say I struggle with that because I have always
had the Fred Hampton approach, bring along everybody, and we
are barely fourteen percent of the population. We can't make
(12:18):
it without allies. So I my harm reduction is how
can we protect our people black people? But also at
what point are we right? Because we could take a minute,
It's fine we pissed off in see election, But at
what point do we say, okay, now we need to
identify allies and lock arms and work together. And I
think we in the throes of figuring that out right now.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
So your cape and comment, Tiffany, and it could be
applied to so many other examples, but it could it
be argued that his position was arguing more about from
a perspective of power than one you know, Steve Jackson
from the Steve Jackson or give you so I have heard,
(13:01):
and this is my belief. I think racism runs the
day up until it runs up against power. And oftentimes
they are and extrictly be connected anyway, at least here
in these Americas. But I feel like people see power
people who they see in power, they analyze what they
(13:24):
think the type of graph of that person is, and
when they are on their climb, they emulate that saying
practice and behavior. You've ever been with a black law
enforcement officer with a badge, boys in the hood. You
can go to Maryland, the Maryland Moseby and the prosecution. Yeah,
(13:53):
Freddy Gray. Absolutely. So. All I'm saying is is that
these are people. You can't say they don't like black people.
They may not like black people, but but but essentially
what is being carried out Wait, I am now in
a position of power. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Wait, Maryland didn't prosecute Freddy Gray.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
No, no, no, no, I'm talking about I'm talking about the
officers who were prosecuted by by yes, the majority of them.
I think we're black, yes, correct, of those law enforcement officers.
And what I'm saying is is I think that our
attitudes behaviors are much more symptomatic of an illustration of
(14:33):
power and what happens when people ascend to levels of
power than it has to do with the race construct,
necessarily when the offender is largely US. I think there
are models of power that the closer you get to it,
and God knows if you get it, you start to
replicate what you believe were the conditions that had the
(14:53):
last guy in power. And it's through a Eurocentric model
which all of us have been taught to to talk
through and to to your point around you can hate
yourself like a black person can hate on other black
There's no doubt about that. In fact, Cartigie Woodson talks
about it in The Miseducation of the Negro. He says,
and you let him to the back door, you don't
(15:13):
have to send him. He will go because his education
makes it necessary. And that's the lasting that's the lasting
effect of racism is that it's been so successful that
you get the people themselves to believe what you have
to say about them.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
It is absolutely the truth.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
I would encourage people to read the Pedagogy of the
Old Press to hear more about this power structure and
what happens when we get into it or when we
reclaim it ourselves. Of course, the biggest fear of white
folks in power is that one day, when we do
have the power, that we would do to them what
they've done to us. So with on that note, the
resounding answer is no, we cannot be racist. Yes, we
(15:53):
can be hateful, and let us work very hard to
overcome hate, because we know that we can't drive sessful
policy and hate. We can only do that with love.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
So on that we.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Welcome you all home into our family. Comment on this,
let us know if you agree with us where we
got it wrong. Most of it was Andrew today, But
we love y'all. God bless you.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Y'all will get to hear it. I'm sorry it's in
the cut.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
That's not true.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's not true.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
We don't do that.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
We don't do that. You're welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Native Land Pod is the production of iHeart Radio and
partnership with Resent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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