Democracy Left on Read

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native lamb Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Recent Choice Media.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome home, y'all. It's episode seventy seven of Native
lamp Pot where we give it to you straight notes.
Chase there, I am your host, Tiffany Cross. Here was
my co host, Angela Rii and Andrew Gillham. We'll come
in here with Angela Rai, right, Andrew. Welcome home, y'all.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Am I allowed to talk now?

Speaker 4 (00:25):
Can I speak?

Speaker 1 (00:26):
And Angela has not joined us yet, but she's going
to join us in the show. As you all know,
she's on the road for State of the People tour
this week, and I know a lot of you all
have been shouting out Angela and looking for her. So
she is going to join us momentarily on this week's show.
But it's me and Andrew getting it started for now.

(00:48):
What's going on?

Speaker 5 (00:49):
Andrew getting it going?

Speaker 3 (00:50):
I'm good? Since I'm good.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
The reason why I say can I talk now? Is,
y'all you probably already know this if.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
You're a listener.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm always trampling over by colleagues when they're in the
middle of a thought if you take a second, I'm like, hey,
did you know?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
But you know, they don't experience that, to be honest
with you. But the comments are all over the place
because sometimes the comments are like, oh my god, can
Andrew get a word in? And then other comments are
like Andrew, stop interrupting. So I feel like it's easier
when we're all together in person, you know, recording remotely,
you're always like, oh, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
So, thanks for you're you're stumbling and that kind of thing.
And I feel like I do it more more than
I should, and certainly more than I mean to.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
I don't want to interrupt.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
I value the words of my colleagues, which is why
we do this together.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
So I'm so into what you have to say, so
and don't listen to Andrew because he knows that. And
when we're together we are like this. And I have
like personal things to talk to Andrew about, professional things,
political things.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
We can talk for paywall.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
I will put up some of the videos I've been
in charge before, behind the scenes, and I love to
just unveil some of that behind the scenes tiff that everybody's.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
I want to know what we're talking about today.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, I was thinking we delve a little into your
dating life and just update the.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
People on.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Maybe we don't even have enough one.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Maybe babe babee, I have to pick that one up.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
But we're not. We're not substitute of Shannon Sharp.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
I understand, I understand.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Understand the innocent.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Believe me, I understand me, I understand.

Speaker 6 (02:41):
Break if you.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Want do you want to? I mean, we could go there,
but maybe not for the break of the heart.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yes, there might be the break of the wallet, which
is this fifty thousand current government civil servant positions that
exist around the country in service to the American people
in the administration, this administration, if you recall we talked
about Project twenty twenty five and the whole loyalty to

(03:07):
Donald Trump. Well, we're a step closer to getting it
after the executive order that Donald Trump signed this month
in April, frankly giving him the power to transition fifty
thousand civil servant positions into political positions that would be
appointed by the president and will work in service to
that individual, which is a huge departure.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
So I want to talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Well, I want to hear from Angela what she wants
to talk about and right on time, Angela is joining us. So, Angela,
what you got?

Speaker 7 (03:38):
So?

Speaker 8 (03:38):
I want to talk about potential empty shelves as early
as May as a result of these tariffs, and if
there's time, I definitely want to talk about the strategy
on doing sit ins at the Capitol that are also
teachings and whether or not that's the most effective way
to reach and motialize our folks right now, So we'll
see what we have time for.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Can you tell folks you've settled and you are about
to do beyond the the people tour? We know that,
and hopefully we can get an update on how things
went earlier this weekend and then as we progress forward
where people can pick up the tour.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
All right, so I answer, what's your topic? Thank you?
I wanted to talk about that. A lot of what
we're witnessing happening here in America is casting a very
dark chattel across the globe. I got a chance to
speak with French journalist Rikaya Diallo about what she's witnessing

(04:29):
and really how the rest of the globe is looking
at America right now. So, and Andrew, you were really
so well versed and well spoken on foreign policy. So
I'm curious your thought.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
I actually want to I want to get into yours.
I mean, we saw the election of a new Canadian
prime minister, Yes, an election that turned on its head,
frankly on the words of Donald Trump. This was a party,
the more liberal party of the Canadian government, trust Justin Trudeau,
the previous who is that is?

Speaker 1 (05:00):
So do y'all see why we yell at Andrew?

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Do you see what is going on?

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Somebody has somebody has gotten into my computer and my phones.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
But let's get into Yeah, the global stuff is interesting,
but I do think we should start domestically. So, and
I have questions for you about the topic that you
wanted to get into. So, but we'd also have a
viewer question. So do you want to get into your
topic or do you want to hear from the viewer first?

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I would you know you have prioritized hearing from viewers,
and I love to hear from viewers. And I think
during a mini pod we did a little while back,
or maybe it was in the main episode, we had
solicited feedback around whether or not we should platform sort
of conservative guest conservative.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Hell, yeah, I would love to.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Hear again some of the continuing rolling feedback we've been
getting from people on that.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Let's do that, all right, producer.

Speaker 9 (05:49):
Nick journalists broadcast journalists lived in LA And the reason
why you guys needed you interviews is.

Speaker 7 (06:03):
The episode you just had about the breakdown of the
exit polls and why some black.

Speaker 6 (06:12):
Folks voted for Trump.

Speaker 7 (06:13):
It's exactly why you need to interview.

Speaker 9 (06:16):
It's amazing, the amazing conversation. Okay, you need to hear more.

Speaker 7 (06:24):
It's cool to hear you guys talk manner, go back
and forth, but you need other voices on your show
that can challenge you guys and also bring the different
perspective and expertise. So that's my two cents. Keep it up,
by bye.

Speaker 10 (06:39):
As far as the opposition of voices go, I mean,
I get, you know, it's always good to hear like
a well rounded amount of people speaking. But I think
the criteria should be, like, you know, if you maybe
like if you're not a reparationist, you know, reparations in
some form, like if you don't believe that black folks

(06:59):
are owed anything for being the financial backbone of this
country before the Industrial Revolution. I think that should be
the criteria and not let people on but I digress.
Hope to see y'all soon and happy to be welcomed home.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
I like that, brother, welcome home.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Indeed, you know, these are two comments that obviously over
a couple of weeks that we hadn't gotten a chance to.
So first of all, thank you guys for taking the
time to record your thoughts, your comments, your questions, and
I want to encourage all of our listeners and viewers
out there to do the same. We say welcome home
with intention because this is our platform as much as

(07:43):
it's your platform, and we want this to be an
open discourse and open dialogue, the discussion that we have
with community to understand our fellow countrymen, and for our
fellow countrymen to weigh in as well. So this show
may center three black voices, it is not exclusively four
black voices. That is for everyone to listen and comment
and weigh in, and all power to all the people

(08:04):
all the time. So having said that, Andrew, I want
to start with this idea with the first guy who
said he was a journalist. I'm curious he says he's
a broadcast journalist, so you know that's a man after
my own heart. I'm curious what uh, what outlet he's
with and what he does. But this is because I

(08:25):
tend to look at everything through the journalist lens, and
it's not just what I do professionally, it really is
who I am. Like you, people can say you're a politician,
that's not just what you do. It's who you are
in terms of having a an endless appetite for understanding

(08:47):
how this world and society functions, but also wanting to
live in service to people. It is very much who
you are. It's what you do professionally, but it's who
you are. I feel the same way about journalism. And
so the frightening thing when he says, oh, to understand
why these you know, black people voted Trump? I think
if there's a difference between having curiosity about something and
intellectual curiosity, So yes, I too was curious about why

(09:10):
was there small sects of black men who seem to
have peeled off and voted for Trump. They were not
a large enough demographic to really represent community, but certainly
they are my community, and I care about them enough
to care. When you have intellectual curiosity, how you might
satisfy that is. I'm a reader, so I'm going to
read on everything starting from one hundred years ago. When

(09:31):
did these two parties start to shift? When did the
Democrat and Republican Party start to enterchage? Because you hear
people all the time it was Republicans who freed the slaves,
that ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Question that people like.

Speaker 5 (09:40):
To know, right yeah, and then a moment exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Precisely, then I want to read about the new deal.
I want to take myself through the decades and see well,
and then I hear them saying economic policy, So let
me look at their economic policy. What is the MAGA
group offering that might be appealing to these men? Then
let me look at projects twenty twenty five. What are
the things that they're talking about. Then let me look
at some of this sounds on my own. I'm not
going to present this to our audience on my own.

(10:07):
I'm going to decipher all of these things as a journalist.
When I have a well rounded understanding, I can wrap
my arms around this fully. Only then can I responsibly
put this before the one hundred thousand plus people who
listen to our platform. I am not, as a journalist,
going to irresponsibly because I have my own I want

(10:29):
to know what it is put that before an audience.
I think I have a responsibility to first satisfy my
own intellectual curiosity privately and responsibly, So I don't know
that my immediate instinct would be some rando. Then they
want to vote for Trump, let me interview him. I've
seen the legacy media do that and they will have

(10:53):
you know, no Diemanu ras U OFCNN, But I saw
him interviewing a woman and she was saying, well, I
like Kamala Harris, and I, you know, could vote for her,
but I'm not sure if the country is ready for
that type of candidate, and he just kind of let
it go. And I'm thinking, well, you're the reporter, what
type of can I knew that she was saying, but
you ask your reporter what exactly is she saying? Or

(11:14):
as people, are you a registered voter? Have you ever voted?
When you say you love Trump's policy? What policy specifically?
Talk us through that and you don't see enough of that.
But when you are well informed, you can have that
that type of intellectual exchange. So I'm not so excited
to put people like that to platform people like that.
I have other thoughts, but I want to hear hear

(11:35):
your thoughts, because I think the media just.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
As follow up to what you just said, as as
in your in your with your journalism hat, and as
a person who has done streak interviews as well as
anchor chair interviews, over your over your your storied.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Work life before, have you ever.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Been in the position where you're interviewing, let's just say,
a LA person, regular, you know, folks on the street,
and your mind is telling you, I know I should
follow up, but I don't want to put this person
on the spot ever, and so you've pulled back, always
gone all the way.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
I'm going to go. It's my responsibility. My responsibility is
always to the audience, to the viewers, even when we're
talking and you know, obviously I know what the DLJ
is or you know, I know what the CBO is,
but my responsibility is always to the people listening and watching,
and so I'm always you know, let's stop for a
second and let's explain this. And the reason is I

(12:28):
remember consuming news sure, and it felt like, well, they're
saying all these acronyms that I don't really understand because
I didn't always. I remember being nineteen trying to get
in this industry and it felt like not only were
they not talking to me, sometimes they were talking about
me with me as an audience, and there was no
one who looked like me, no one providing proper context,

(12:51):
no one who thought I was worthy of saying, well,
let me explain the function. What does the United Nations do?
What is the America's role in it? You know, why
is it based in New York? What is the DLJ function? Exactly?
We just don't take time to explain that. And so
I think that's why you see a real drop off
in legacy media. And it just, I don't know, it

(13:14):
feels like a bunch of For so long, it was
a bunch of white folks sitting around talking about things
that we didn't understand, and it almost felt intentional that
we're going to keep this high bar, and especially because
we were so kept out of the political process until
the mid sixties, and it just felt like, wouldn't you
want your audience to understand, wouldn't it helped you to

(13:37):
stop and take thirty seconds. I tried to do that
on my show. But I'll tell you my frustration, Andrew,
because you and I have both done the cable news circuit,
and I feel like I have this, as do you.
We have this breast of knowledge that we can talk about.
I question people who describe themselves as an intellectual. I
do not describe myself as an intellectual. I don't consider

(13:58):
myself an intellectual, but I do have curious.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
Think intellectuals who are true say.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
I'm an intellectual exactly exactly what I have is a
very hungry appetite for information. And so I do like
talking to people who I consider intellectuals, and I do
respectfully consider you an intellectual. I know you may not
describe yourself that way, but I do.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
One of the things that I think we acknowledge is
that all of us sort of enter this conversation not
putting a head on of oh, well, I'm a journalist
this moment, or I'm a public servant this moment, or
I'm an activist leader you know, of movement this moment.
But we're indivisible and who we are is who we are,

(14:39):
and we may be able to, you know, chill a
little bit more in this setting, or be more amped
up in this setting, but as a person, we're not
putting on masks regarding the fields that we've chosen. We are,
We're settled into that, into that existence, and that existence
shows up wherever we show up. And in that you know,

(14:59):
in the Van Tiffany you were saying, how as an
observer of in a real student of information, as a journalist,
that sometimes you felt like journalists were deliberately having conversations
over your head as a viewer. And I got to
tell you, I think it's probably true in every field
and in every industry. I give examples sometimes around politicians

(15:22):
who say, this is just more complicated than what you're saying,
and well, that's just a little harder, And that really
generally is a way a tool I think people use
to protect themselves as a shield frankly within their comfort place.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
This room is for journalists.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
You must be credentialed in this way and a little
to partique in this conversation.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
And in truth media.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Information right now was so democratized you can get it
from anywhere anyhow, confirmed, not confirmed, rumor meal however you
want it. And so there's been a bit of a breakdown.
But generally, I think people use what they have is information,
the work that they do in a lot of ways
as a cudgel to beat other people back from it

(16:08):
and to protect that space for this sort of sacred
group elected media, even I would say, organizers and leaders
of movement, even in some ways move in that way,
and none of us are served by it. So to
the point I understood the first respondent that we had
who mentioned we need them more round it, I just
want to say, you may not hear me articulate the

(16:30):
positions of the right, but I fully understand because similar
to what you laid out, Tiffany, we've read and vetted
through what's real and what isn't about this whole thing
and made it make sense for ourselves. And now what
I'm telling you is my hard earned position with a
complete understanding of what the other side happens to be selling.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
Take Project twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
They wrote it out for all of us to read,
to see, to understand, to comprehend.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
When they talked about loyalty, oaths.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
And hiring people into this government who are fied down
to one man, I knew what that was. I didn't
sign up for that, and that isn't what a democracy is.
We're not a culture personality as a democracy, and democracies
were built to protect the minority, not to trounce over
the minority. So I may not be articulating that in

(17:18):
probably twenty five they said X, Y, and Z, and
this is what they believe and where it comes from.
But I've consumed that and the deciding of where it
is that I come down on any particular position. My
thing about conservative guests, and I don't have an opposition
at all to conservative guests, But you can't just be
out here spewing something that sounds different than maybe what
you're getting from the three of us and automatically that

(17:40):
that is a conversation that I ought to be platformed.
I got to tell you, I got a relative who,
in many ways can be described in some ways as
sort of the He's going to be the opposite side
of the coin that anybody else is on. If the
majority of the room is on this one, he's absolutely
going to be contraran and on the other side. And
I remember as a youngster and school thinking like you

(18:02):
talking about welfare people and people's you know, government giving
away da da da da. And I can't think of
a day I've ever encountered y'all. W well, y'all haven't
been on the take, well you have, you know, been
the ones getting and receiving, and yet we're supposed to
like entertain this conversation. I remember getting to the point
as a young person saying, I'm not even gonna engage anymore. Yeah,
because it doesn't make sense. I can't believe that you

(18:22):
believe what you're saying. And I feel that way about
a lot of conservative activists that we hear these days,
is that there's an acting happening, and that what I'm
getting is this mask of like, oh high its bidder
is where I'm at, and this is their positions and
I'm spewing it now versus a real deep sense that
I'm getting the honest truth about what you feel, what

(18:43):
you think, and why you hold that position.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
We'll pick up on the rests after this next breaks.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
They turned.

Speaker 6 (19:02):
TI.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
I mean, Angela, I'm really curious whether or not how
you've processed through. I think the audience probably knows well
that you've been an advocate for you know, having diverse voices,
you know, lifted up so that we can understand folks better.
I'm just curious what vet do you put on, what
that looks like, and how we make sure that conversation
when we have them, are really valuable ones that promote growth.

Speaker 8 (19:27):
So I I don't know that I agree that there
has to be a bar. Maybe the bar is that
you don't lie on black people. Maybe the bar is
that you're not super insulting and disrespectful to us. Maybe
somebody has some really interesting reason for why they don't
support reparations. If we if reparation, being a reparationist is

(19:47):
the criteria. There are black people who many of our
folks have voted for, who when they get out publicly,
don't say they support reparations. Some of them have never
signed on to HR forty in the House. That's the bar.
It's a lot of black folks who won't be able
to be included. I'd rather take the position of and
this I think goes back to conversations we've had in

(20:08):
the past tip about convincing. I would rather have them
on the platform to try to convince them, or at
least try to understand why would they not support making
sure that black people are put on equal footing. So
I'm sure there's a crisiia that can be developed. There's
probably an audience member that has already done some of that.
When we're learning, certainly on this tour is that people
are doing a lot of work. Folks just don't know

(20:29):
about it. So maybe if you have that set of Crisier,
you could send it over to us to our Instagram
at Native Lampot.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I think one of the things I fear a little
bit too is I think we've developed an honest exchange
with each other, and I think we've done so far
with the guests that we have had, you know, had
an honest exchange. Granted there's not been a lot of
points of departure on probably the big theme issues. But
my fear is is that I would hate for us
to have, you know, the relationship with our audience is

(20:59):
having this discourse and then we basically have propaganda sort
of sprinkled and that doesn't end up being a really
true leveled conversation, but more of like here are my
talking points, and then here is what I think our
you know, my side stands for, and then here are
the if there's a way to be you know, for

(21:20):
us to get beneath in our conversations. And I felt
this way about Cable News Angela. I don't know if
it ever hit you this way, you know, when we
would be invited on as guests of this show or
this show. It's like, I'm having this conversation that I
think is a conversation and I'm earnestly, you know, turning
to Kevin Jennings or you know, or or whomever, and
that we may be making away with each other, but

(21:41):
in truth, you.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Hadn't heard a damn thing I've said.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
The thing that you just spewed out had nothing to
do with the conversation that we're on. But maybe you
got a point across, you know, for your side, And
to me, those are just so disrespectful to the viewership
the listenership that that we would we would insult you
enough with a propaganda fest over leveling.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
This thing so that we can have a real discourse.

Speaker 6 (22:07):
Yeah, yeah, I think no answer.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Well, I just I think that's why this platform is important,
because the three of us can have a deeper, more
nuanced discussion. We have such a breath of knowledge and
expertise coming from three very different backgrounds and areas where
we can get into that, you know, where we can
have a healthy exchange of intellectual ideas and ideology. And

(22:33):
on cable news, it's like everyone is looking for that
viral moment, and so you know, I feel like I'm
robbed of the opportunity to actually have deep exchange, to
actually inform, to actually put things in context, to contextualize
some of these things. I don't know how you have
strong opinions about tariffs when you don't understand our relationship

(22:56):
with China, when you don't understand the global supply chain,
when you don't don't understand the purchasing power of other countries.
I don't know how you have an informed discussion about
our national security when you don't understand the global threats
to the United States and the global threat that the
United States is to other places. So trying to fit
things into like sixty seconds and people want that, like

(23:17):
I went off on you and then it went viral
and now we all going all over the place. It
just feels so reductionist to the moment we're in and
here at least we get to, you know, deeply explore
some things. And what I notice about our audience, which
I'm so appreciative, is there's rarely ever been where our
audience is. I agree whole heartily with Angela, I agree

(23:39):
whole heartily with Sippy. I agree whole heartly with Andrew.
There is always a pretty even collection of people who
agree with us in each way. But even the people
who may vehemently disagree with something I said, they always
close with but I love tim. If they disagree with Angela,
they're like, girl, I don't know about that, but you know,
I love you, or like Andrew, you drive me crazy,

(23:59):
you got it wrong, but I love you like it
is a discussion in love. And that just feels so
much better to me than platforming some of these you know,
half witted people who are just there to regurgitate Donald
Trump's nutsack. Really, at the end of the day, you know,
it's like, just stop it, you know. And I don't

(24:20):
even think it frustrates me to put be put on
the same level as some of these people. You know,
it's like we are not on equal footing. Like you
cannot talk to me about the uties because you don't
even know who that is. But you want to like
regurgitate something that you saw on Fox News and you
have no idea. It used to drive me crazy when
Angela first started doing television, and you know, she worked

(24:43):
on Capitol Hill, been the executive director for a legislative
body for the rest of Black Caucus and it's on
there opposite someone who writes a blog. You know, like,
have no clue about it. Angel You were a gubernatorial
candidate and you're sitting across from somebody who was a
junior press sect on somebody's campaign. It's not They're not

(25:04):
like us, you know, it's not the same. So that
kind of thing just just frustrates me. Angela. You were
talking about the state of the tour and we we
can we can delete this and we don't want to
talk about it. But I think some of the things
that you were saying about the tour and some of
the voices that you wanted to include, to me that

(25:26):
that was a very meaty discussion because your perspective has
been organizing by addition, not subtraction, and you know, I
think that is uh, it's gonna make some people uncomfortable,
you know, and it makes me some of it makes
me uncomfortable, But that is like those are the to me,

(25:47):
that is a more meati conversation too than hearing from
And I don't know that I agree with everything, but
I just think the point you were making was valid.
And so you y'all are saying you just want to
talk about or just want to talk to people you
agree with and talk to the people who agree with us,
and that's not really organizing. And I think maybe that's

(26:08):
what some of the viewers are trying to suggest as well.
But I just think that's a different level of philosophical
discussion that we get to have here. All right, Well, Andrew,
I agree, Okay, Andrew.

Speaker 8 (26:21):
I was like, I don't know if you were asking
me something or disagreeing, but I agree with that for sure.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, Andrew, you wanted to get into the I had
questions for you about your topic.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
But yeah, I'll try to tee it up in this
smaller way, which is simply to say, we all warned
about Project twenty twenty five. We went through, we did
an episode on it. It is very clear that Russell
Vogue is one thousand percent committed to his mission, and

(26:55):
whether people know it or not, this is a person
Elon Musk is being sidelined.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Mind.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
But all the reporting that I have seen, the man
behind the curtain all the while is still Russell Vogue.
And so this person who is little known, little advertised,
little talked about, is deeply censed in the federal and
knowledge about the federal system. He worked for a US senator,

(27:22):
he's been a policy director, he's worked in the in
the in the nuanced details of budgeting of the federal government.
Which is what frightens me the most about his position
within this administration and the power that he's ascended to,
because he's exactly the type of person who knows how
to bring it all down, to bring it all in.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
If you're committed to that end and you spent the
time studying and understanding and knowing how to do it,
it ought to frighten and shake all of us to
the court to know that there is that kind of
a fox in the hen house. And what I mean
about the hen house, I mean the henhouse of democracy.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
The room of.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
The Constitution, the underbelly of statutes and laws that then
govern this democracy. This is a person who understands that
hook letter verse. And so now we read in Project
twenty twenty five about the loyalty oh to the Trump
administration and they want federal government employees to be mostly
fidel to him and not to the Constitution. And so

(28:24):
what is about to happen based off of this executive
order that the President signed in April. That has now
advanced forward and it is expected to be part of
a compromise on the budget that the House Speaker is
going to lead. Is it will transform what are fifty
thousand currently civil service positions. These are people who get

(28:46):
hired into the government, they work for protect a respective
part of the government, and their fidelity ultimately is to
the Constitution, to the laws of this country to enact
what has passed through the Congress and signed by the president. Well,
they want to change the those positions so that they're
no longer equal opportunity positions for anyone who is qualified
to apply and.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Get hired too.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
You must be loyal to Donald Trump or the president
if you will, and your job is to enact the
agenda of the president without regard to any of those
other factors. That's problematic because it's those other factors that
make what the president does either.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
Legal or illegal.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
And if you, as a person, are able to unilaterally
decide that all we do is follow the edicts of
the President without regard to the law, what's right to
the codes and statutes of the country, you, in my opinion,
are no longer civilly servant to the people you're civilly
servant to a man, you are servant to an individual. Well,

(29:47):
these fifty thousand positions that are about to be transitioned
is just the start of where they ultimately want to
go with the over two million federal employees, which is
to make them again holy oil, to the individual occupant
of the White House. Whereas our democracy has been built
on and has stood not perfectly because I got my critiques,

(30:08):
but has stood largely on civil servants who follow the law,
the constitution and will absolutely disobey in unlawful order. And
if we're now changing that to you obey whatever the
order is from the commander in chief, from the President
of the United States, without regard to the other stuff,
we are well then on the way to fascism because

(30:28):
to a system of democracy that doesn't look anything like
democracy at all, but more like that of a king,
a dictator, or a tyrant.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah. Literally everything you're saying, because we've obviously heard about
this before he was actually even elected. And then when
he took over, there were employees government employees saying that
they were asked about their fealty. Loyalty, said Donald Trump.
And I just wonder what exactly is that litmus test.

(30:57):
And this is just something that we've not seen before.
And I think I think people are so tuned out
to the extent because we cannot fathom losing rights, you know,
like people have never we've never been confronted with the
concept of losing rights. And if you are building an army, essentially,
if you are supplanting everybody within the federal government to

(31:19):
be these loyalists, I mean, that is what you have
in Russia with Putin, That's what you have in Turkey
with Erdowan, That's what you have. Even in China, I
would see, that's what you have in uh uh, the
the other dictator I can't wake.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
I mean, there's there's Cuba.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
We've got it also where we are now exporting American
citizens to prisons country exactly where you've got a strong
man figure. Everybody's lord to the strong man figure, and
and lo and behold, there is zero accountability, and then
people start to regret the kind of system that then

(32:02):
takes hold again. All of these people were elected as populist.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
First, Yeahan and Turkey, yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, I mean, but as pop they were the voice
of the people. And then they got there and it
became very clear that the voice for themselves.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, is that legal? Like I, I don't know that
the courts are going to hold so I don't know
what a law is at this point. But is it
legal to create the fifty thousand positions where you have
to be loyal to not even the executive branch, but
the president himself? And if not, where does it?

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Like?

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Who is the person that's going to stand between Donald
Trump and his building? Essentially an army, a workforce of
loyal federal employees.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
To tivioty is the right question. And unfortunately, the people
who would normally be the stop gap the Congress, they've
already shown themselves to be head over heels, backless.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
You know exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
That.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
That's pretty frightening when you think about it, And it
kind of is the point that I was making around
a lot of this. We are exporting a lot of populism,
And it kind of details into Angela what you wanted
to talk about with the citizens because I do feel
like Congress has been pretty reckless at this point. But

(33:32):
curious your thoughts because it's from topic you want to
talk about.

Speaker 8 (33:37):
Yeah, I didn't get a chance to pull sound, but
there's some really good sound from this past weekend. Members
of Congress, who including Corey Booker, who a lot of
folks were so proud of for standing on the Senate
floor for more than twenty four hours breaking strom Thurman's record.
He was a part of what they were calling. Some

(33:59):
were calling this, and we're calling a teaching this past
weekend on Sunday, and so they sat on the steps
and I'm not gonna lie to y'all. The image that
I had in my mind was Sesame Street. I don't
know why I was given Sesame Street vibes, that it
was given Sesame Street vibes.

Speaker 5 (34:16):
The teaching they were teaching, Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 8 (34:18):
But I just it felt a lot softer than his
initial approach. But the circumstances have gotten so much more severe.
There are a lot of people who come out of
traditional movement work that really liked what they did, and
I'm not saying I didn't. And the worst part is,

(34:40):
I hate to be a person that criticizes the thing,
and then I don't have the alternative. So I don't
know what the alternative is. I don't know that it's
another press conference, I don't know that it's going on
more shows, and it may be a combination.

Speaker 6 (34:56):
Of all of these things.

Speaker 8 (34:58):
I think that what they're really wrestling with, which is
something we wrestle with every week too, is cutting through.
How do you cut through? Why are you talking about
stuff that nobody understands, or your approach is one that
nobody appreciates or you know very few people do, or
you're in that same echo chamber talking to the same
people you always talk to. What are you going to

(35:19):
do to stretch yourself out of your comfort zone? Now,
to be fair, they might have been in comfortable clothes,
but I think they stretch themselves out of their comfort zone,
their safe spaces behind a podium, at a press conference,
on the House floor, you know, debating a bill in
a committee room, right in a markup or a hearing,
asking questions to the other side or to a witness.

(35:41):
So I know they're stretching, but I'm just wondering tactically
if it was the right thing. I really don't have
an answer. I have my initial impression and my like,
I am relentless right now about going to find the one.
I don't know who the one is, but I feel
like I'll know them when I see them. To the
point of losing my voice. It is the person that

(36:03):
does not ordinarily come to the things that we go to.
It is the person that you know would find some
of what we are striving to do uncomfortable. It is
the person that is like, why are you doing that?

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Like?

Speaker 8 (36:15):
Who cares that person? How do we reach them? Because
that is the person that won this last election. Maybe
they won this last election.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
Maybe I'm talking about I stay at home.

Speaker 8 (36:29):
That's who I'm talking about, the apathy, Like numerically they
won the election, yes, yes, So I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
For those who decided the president, there's a different I
think there's a different equation for the formula of person
that showed out and decided that Donald Trump should be president.

Speaker 8 (36:46):
Again, I'm not talking about them when I'm saying numerically,
I'm talking about the one who stayed home, because numerically
that is who won the election.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
But that isn't who's governing. I guess that's where I
love to.

Speaker 8 (37:01):
Well kind of because their apathy means that anything goes,
anything goes as the reason why this man is in
the White House. So I hear your point, but I'm
just saying numerically, apathy just the thing that we have
to reach them or we're going to stay here. And
staying here is dangerous for all of us. Whether they
specually chose him, they were apathetic, or they did not

(37:24):
choose him, we're all suffering the same consequence. So how
do we reach the apathetic? How do we reach the
people that said not me, I don't want anything to
do with this. Maybe they weren't apathetic, Maybe they just
chose not to participate. I want to find them. I
am desperately trying to find them.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Is it possible, though, that what they do with the
member of Congress did, frankly, should just be one more
thing that we put on the menu of options that
we get to exercise and trying to figure this thing out,
because I sctually think it's everything all at once, all
the time multiplied.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
That's what I think the pushback is.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Because Donald Trump has a big footprint, and unfortunately that
road show that he's got is exactly what traditional cable
news and even traditional news is apt to follow. It
is entertaining by and large for a lot of people
until the consequences show up at your doorstep. That's how

(38:23):
we see these videos of people who went out and
I had a Trump flag, and then I was the
first one laid off, and I didn't think it was
gonna happen, And I'm thinking, are you kidding me?

Speaker 3 (38:35):
So it was gonna be good for everybody else?

Speaker 2 (38:36):
And you thought everybody else was the person who was
a slacker on the job that wasn't working and deserved
to be fired. But when the slacker on the job
who deserved to be fired showed up to be you,
then this was all a bad choice, a bad decision.
And I just I think his appetite for media, not
just consumption but media shaping is so it's so insatiable

(39:02):
that we're not going to beat him at that game.
But we all to be, we ought to be, in
my opinion, fighting on all alternative platforms as well as
on the ones that he's on. So I think it's
everything all at once, all the time multiplied. That's the strategy.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
I don't think it's any I think it's a noble
effort to talk to apathetic people because there are so
many right now. But I just want to crystallize the
point that I don't think apathy won the election, Like
the math doesn't support that white people won the election. Overwhelmingly,

(39:39):
like he drove out the highest voter turnout among white
people since black people got the right to vote. The
narrative in legacy media has been, you know, people stayed home,
and you know, I just I cannot put the failure
in his democracy at our feet. You know, I think

(40:02):
the overwhelming I didn't say you said that, Angela. I'm
just making my point, but but go ahead.

Speaker 8 (40:08):
No, I just to say, just for clarity, because it
happens a lot on the show, I did not say that.
So I just want to make sure that is not
what people take out of this that I'm saying black
people did it.

Speaker 6 (40:16):
I am not.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, So, just my own individual point that I'm making
independent of anybody else's point is that white people overwhelmingly
voted for this man, and they were not confused about it.
This whole idea of oh well, I didn't like they
knowingly cast a ballot for this man. And to be honest,

(40:38):
I don't know how to combat that. I don't know,
if you know, if we showed up as fourteen percent
of this society overwhelmingly and you know, again, I know
people are tired to be sound and hopeless, but like,
I don't know that we have the numbers to change it,
and I'm just starting to feel like, if this is
what y'all want, then take it. Like I honestly, I like,

(41:00):
where can we have peace? Where can we have reprieve?
Where can we live? You know, It's like the jay
Z line, can I live? If this is what you
all will choose time and again, then it's just frustrating
to constant have to live in constant battle. And since
the inception of this country, it feels like there has
never been a time for peace for black folks. We

(41:22):
have always had to battle them for something that they
You know, maybe some people will feign ignorance later and
say I didn't know, but I have to call out
bes like, no, you did know. You voted for this
is what you want. Everything is happening is what you
wanted to happen, and that's why you cast this ballot.
So I don't know. I don't know if, like when
we tap into the apathetic, are we tapping into them

(41:45):
to participate in this system to create a mass exodus
out of this system to take cover while this system
works itself out. I just don't I don't even know.
I'll be honest, I'm of the point now where I'm
like on some build community and communes and go off
the grid. I don't even know what that looks like,
but it seems to be that kind of because I
don't know where this goes next. If we're here at

(42:06):
barely one hundred days in, where do we go next?

Speaker 8 (42:09):
If I may Andrew just really quick on the mass
because I'm not good at maths, so I have to
go back and check my math sometimes. According to this
piece in the Guardian, it says that it is estimated
that close to ninety million Americans, roughly thirty six percent
of the eligible voting age population, did not vote. CNN

(42:32):
has so that's ninety million. So I decided to make
sure because I know I can be really bad at math.
Kamala Harris obtained seventy five a little over seventy five
million votes. Donald Trump obtained a little over seventy seven
point three million votes. So again, it is estimated that
close to ninety million Americans, roughly thirty six percent of

(42:55):
the eligible voting age population, did not vote. I'm not
resting this at the like, there's not even that many
black people. I'm not putting this on black folks. I
am asking and pleading with people to help me find
the folks who are of voting age who did not
participate so we can understand why, so we can change
that system. I don't know that continuing it. I mean,

(43:21):
white folks who voted for Trump definitely did. White folks
who voted against Kamala Harris definitely won the election in
terms of who took the oath of office. But the
people who won by apathy still outpaced Donald Trump and
Kamala Harris. So that to me is the push even
for this tour, there are too many black folks who

(43:41):
are of voting age also who didn't not participate. I
want to reach them first. Those are my people, right,
But I also want to try to tap into why
people could have such an awesome responsibility and not engaged.

Speaker 6 (43:54):
And I think think.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I was just gonna say, I think your point of
of apathy winning the election is simply it could be
a philosophical difference or a semantical one, because at the
end of the day, where I draw, where I draw
conclusion around who won is who governs. But I understand
the point of how many, what percentage of people chose
not to participate in truth. Every candidate, every political committee,

(44:21):
every pack we can think of, with the exception of
some of what Elon Musk did as a way of
dangling money out to people, if you show up, you
can get one hundred dollars here and a ten thousand
and a million here. Aside from that, all the political
quote smart money is not on going after that ninety
plus million at all. All the political smart money, supposedly,

(44:42):
if you want to call it smart, is going toward
persuading those who you know are on the chessboard and
will vote, to come out and vote your way. It's
why a lot of campaigns don't put a bunch of
money into voter registration, quite frankly, because they're really not
interested in turning out the unknown. They don't want the
people who they're not sure how they're going to perform

(45:03):
to actually show up. That's why they make the laws harder. Nobody,
no politician I know, wants unpredictability in the system. They're
very similar to money markets. Money markets hate the unpredicted,
the unpredictable. Politicians governmental initusians those who are competing and
combating for power. They hate the unknown unless the unknown

(45:25):
is really known to them, which is, if I pump
this number and it shows up, they're voting for me.
It used to be going theory that if an election
was a high turnout election, the end result would be
a Democrat would win. That used to be the status
quote for decades. Well guess what Donald Trump enters the formula.
He turns it on his head. And now when we
see high turnout, Democrats get nervous because we believe high

(45:49):
turnout is going to result and Donald Trump and Republicans winning.
That's been a topsy turvey of a system that I've
understood and that I've studied, and that I've competed in
for over two decades as a as an elected official
myself or a candidate for election.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
And the math.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
The worst part about the math is that the money
is not going to follow going for the person who
you're not sure how they're going to perform. In fact,
I think the money is going to exacerbate itself on
the side of if you are a voter who I
can guarantee that if I turn you out, you're going
to vote my way. That's where the big money and
the smart money is going to continue to be. And

(46:26):
that's going to be undemocratizing to that ninety plus million
and all who join them afterwards, because they's still not
going to feel heard, seen or reflected in the government,
because the government is going to get further and further
estranged from them. And that's exactly the way the systems
of power that turn want it to work.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
It just feels like, because we even the numbers when
you disaggregate that by race, he had the highest number
of whites, Like he turned out white voters intentionally with
his racism, with his tropes. He turned out this was
the third highest turnout for black voters. You know what

(47:07):
I mean. It's like, no, we participated, not all of us,
and surely and even our voting turnout in general, which
I think speaks to your point, Angela, like we've never
had most of our population turnout when it comes to voting,
but black votes like we showed up. We turned out
more for Vice President Harris than we did for Biden.

(47:30):
And it's also the it highlighted the gap between Latino
voters and Black voters for the first time, which was
also a wide gap. And it feels like, if this
is what we are looking at, then where do we
go from here, you know, because like if fine, if
we're going to tap into the apathetic, then what are
we tapping in them to say? Like, what are we

(47:50):
asking them to do? Because it can't be you know,
we need you all to vote next time, like no, no, no, no, no. First,
we need you to believe in something. So what is
the sum thing that we're asking them to believe in?
And right now I don't know. The only thing I
can believe in is US, That's it. We were having
a conversation some friends and I and we were saying

(48:12):
somebody asked, well, at what point because people are concerned
that Donald Trump concerned the military on people, and they
were asking, well, at what point do the people in
the military do the rank and file say no, this
isn't right. And I black women make up a disproportionate
amount of people in the military, like we and I'm like,
that's the only people I can count on. I can

(48:33):
trust that black women will not, in service to this country,
turn their weapons on me. I put my life on it.
Literally beyond that, I don't know. I have no belief
in no one but us. When I say us, I
mean black people. I don't just mean black women. But yeah,
I have my safety relies on us and resides in US.

(48:56):
So it is I mean, it is a moment in
time really to just take I don't jump out there
and comment on every little thing. Like sometimes you know,
the bookers will call and they want you and it's like,
I'm not playing that game anymore, you know, because this
person said something, you want me to respond, and this
person want to come to do sixty seconds on this subject.
It's too serious for that right now, you know, Like

(49:18):
sometimes I just need to take a moment and observe
what is happening and gather my thoughts, gather my spirit
because I just, yeah, I don't know where we go
from here. I really don't can. I think.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
I was just going to say, I think the small
wins is where I think I'm finding some comfort. I
think I took a lot of courage from watching what
Harvard did and seeing some of the other institutions, academic
institutional leadership stand up and basically applaud them and say
you know here here, you know, keep going, And then

(49:56):
to watch that frankly, the Republican the the Trump administration
back up and say that letter shouldn't have been sent.
We shouldn't have said what we said. Now the question
is is all y'all going to restore the funding and
the way that it's supposed to be. And obviously the
bigger question is going to be how the courts ultimately
decide here. But I agree with you that it's hard
to find faith that the institutions as they were designed

(50:18):
are going I don't think they predicted that this was
going to be who you know, they would operate this way,
and that their effect was going to be not to
the dismemberment of black folk exclusively, but that the effect
was going to be on them as well. And now
that's the only time I think we see this administration
backing up in any real way is when they hear

(50:41):
from their people that, oh, no, no, no, you miscalculated this.
That program Secretary HEXXF that you just got rid of
that sets women up for greater achievement within the military.
You just voided and said, this woke stuff is over.
Was created by your president, signed into law by first
Donald Trump adminished he put it into law. And guess

(51:02):
what the major sponsor in the Senate was Marco Rubio
as a senator and now US Secretary of State.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
And guests who sponsored it in the House.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Christy nom your Homeland Security advisor turned centerfold. I mean
that picture, you.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
Know, the blowout and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah, but the point is real that these folks, they
were they pushed it themselves. And you put out tweets
decrying this as woke policy. Well, that's woke policy from
your colleagues, former cabinet members, the Secretary of Homeland Security
and the third highest ranking individual in the government, the
Secretary of State.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
That's where that came from.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
And so only then do they get quieted and just
a little bit because they don't apologize.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
They don't say this was a mistake.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Right, but there is no safety to be found there
in my opinion, And you're ex' you're you're exceedingly right
that those in this country as apathetic have largely largely
continued to stay out of the system.

Speaker 5 (52:05):
But I don't want people to think that that's a
new advent. The the the.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Extension of the ability to vote, period has always intended.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
To exclude the majority.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Again, only property owning white men were originally allowed to vote,
not all white men. And so when that when that
franchise got extended to non property owning white people. That
was another layer of enfranchising. And then two black folk
black you know, and then of course we have we
already you know the history around the clap back there.
But these have been gradual inclusions that the government in

(52:37):
this country didn't start with an assumption of radical inclusion
of everybody.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
But that's another thing, the lack of knowledge of history,
the lack of curiosity about history. I mean, when you
look at the American Revolution, most people don't know what
the mary of you asked, somebody, tell me what was
the Revolutionary War about? Like, how did that that come
to be? I mean it's quite cyclical. I mean that
in itself was about out terrorifts. And the way we
tell the story is like all these poor American, poor

(53:03):
brave Americans, was like no, y'all didn't want to pay
your fair share like that. That was always part of
the problem. So it's really nothing new under this sign
right precisely, I know we're coming up on time. I
just want to play a quick snippet with a conversation
I had with Ricaya Diallo about how people one about
where we are in the globe US as community and

(53:27):
how people are perceiving the United States, because as you
all know, in France they handled Marine Lapin with much
more I think, righteousness and caution than we did Donald Trump.
This week Canada had an election. They elected Mark Carney
as their new prime minister, and I don't know that

(53:47):
he would have won had it not been for Donald Trump.
It was a fight against America. People across the globe
have been warning about a rising authoritarian government in the
United States, and so Richai Diallo is just a fascinating
intellectual out of Paris who I think is strikingly beautiful

(54:10):
and other things. And I was able to chat with
her for Michael Harriet's Catreman camp. But I'd like to
just play a little of that sound and get your
thoughts on the other side, please.

Speaker 11 (54:20):
Mario Marichal Lupen, who is the niece of Marinupen, one
of the leaders of the Faraight, was invited to the
US to speak in front of you know people, MAGA
people so like the It's they're very well organized and
they are really really good to spread the ideas, you know,
across the both sides of the Atlantic. And you know what,
when Vance came in Germany in January, he you know,

(54:43):
he pointed out the idea of the enemy from within,
and we know that he's really targeting us, you know,
black people, Muslim who was supposedly not really Europeans, and
him coming from the US just you know, fueling hate
against us is really putting us into danger. And it's
something that is really well organized globally.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
So that's the thing that's interesting to me. They are
well organized globally, and I wonder, are we right something
that happens here in America. There are some people, a
small sect of people, who feel like we have to
worry about us, We have to worry about the people
who are direct descendants of the enslaved from here in America.

(55:27):
You and I are both survivors of white supremacy, our
families or survivors of white supremacy. I am the descendant
of the enslaved here. You are not the descendant of
enslaved yet still you have been harmed right by by
white people, and so I feel solidarity with you. You know,
I understand when you're talking. It's like, yes, I understand

(55:48):
exactly what you're saying. I wonder as we navigate this,
there are a lot of black people here who are
looking to flee, you know, expats who are saying I
have to leave a mayor, And I just wonder if
we had solidarity across the globe how that might look,
you know, if we could organize as well to provide

(56:09):
each other safety. They're the same. The system that's oppressing
you is oppressing me. And I just wonder your thoughts
on what it looks like for us to unite globally
as the global majority. What might solidarity among all of
us across the globe look like.

Speaker 11 (56:27):
I tend to think that the knowledge is power. Just
knowing what happens to you here, what's happening to us
there in Europe, but also what's happening to people in Brazil,
for example, is something that really makes us stronger and
makes us understand how it's you know, it operates globally.
And also the fact that it's way easier for me

(56:48):
to speak here in the US than it is in France,
and I guess that it would be easier for you
to speak about what's going on in the US in France,
and here we need to use our privileges to speak
out about, you know, local situations of people that that
that the mainstream don't want to see.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
One of the interesting things she said was that when
Marien La Penn was sentenced, the first people to speak
out about it donald Trump and other dictators around the
country and how, uh, you know, as black folks in
in Paris, how they're looking at America versus how America

(57:26):
has looked at everyone else. It was really a fascinating conversation.
I told her. Angela's like, you're like the Angela Riah
Paris because she's well known, you know, people stop her.
And she was like, I consider that such a huge compliment,
Thank you so much. Yeah, it was really sweet. And
they haven't I've been trying to We were in Paris
and she wasn't there, but I've been trying to make
sure that she met our cohort. But you can hear

(57:46):
more of that at Contraband camp. I did that were my.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Father that it was such a It was acknowledgement that
you can get an audience and reach people in France
when she camp and similarly when she's in the US. Yeah,
it goes back to that old saying it's hard to
be a profit in your own land and that you
know you'll get underminded where you are, but you go
somewhere else in your genius, expert but right where you are,

(58:11):
right where you're doing the work, is all the undermining
your question though, around what might solidarity and sort of
shared pain struggle overcoming relief look like if the folks
who are oppressed around the country were to find solidarity
with each other. And I think I understood her point

(58:34):
to be basically, wherever you are, continue to activate, share
those stories because we all get power from that. And
maybe it's not us exporting ourselves to some remote island,
but rather changing the systems, upending the systems. And then
the people who you know, we're the proprieties previously are
the ones who are like, we got to get someplace,
we got to go. Shouldn't say that, But I understood

(58:56):
it to be uniformity in our fight, you know, maybe
that we turn the tables and we win.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah, a lot of you and it's not I've noticed
Sixty Minutes did a great piece this week on people
leaving the United States because they've studied special areas of
expertise in the medical community that are no longer supported
by the NHS, and so now they are taking their talent.
So we are making it harder for it. Take that excisely,

(59:23):
we are making it harder for immigrants to come to
this country who contribute to our economy and to our
you know, intellectual capabilities at large, and we are sending
our brightest away, and we are home growing a lot
of domestic terrorists in my opinions, who prioritize white man
rule and who who lack any sort of curiosity about people.

(59:47):
So I don't know, it's just a dangerous time and
I don't know what tomorrow brings. So in the midst
of all, well, I was just gonna say, and in
the midst of all that we have to find pockets.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
Of joy on the other side of this break.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
That's when we'll get into what Angela has been out
there listening, seeing, hearing and giving on the set of
the People Tour.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Stay tuned, We'll be right back, Angela.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
I did want to tell you, I know because you
have to go, but I did want to tell you
a lot of the comments last week were of great concern,
and they're like Angela's in her voice, and Andrew don't
call them Angela, and is she getting rest? So I
think people just want to hear how you're doing and
whatever you want to say about the tour where you're
heading next to anything about that, Well, I'm sitting in

(01:00:41):
Saint Mark ami Zion Church in Durham, North Carolinas. Uh,
the ami Zions are different, but sure we can show
you the Zion. Yes, Ammi's and the Kojis are actually
official official partners on the tour.

Speaker 6 (01:00:58):
This has been incredible.

Speaker 8 (01:01:01):
In Durham, we had a meeting, a town hall meeting
in another am church, Saint Joseph's right by North Carolina
Central yesterday. This is also right by North Carolina Central.
What was fascinating about that conversation as we were sitting
there at a church that was established in eighteen sixty

(01:01:21):
nine and so they're used to doing this kind of
organizing work around our freedom and our liberation. There was
going to be a setup where the moderator asked the
questions for the audience, and instead, as you all know,
we always choose to hear directly from the folks. What's
your name and where are you from? I walk with
the mike and we had this brother, his name is Bradford.

(01:01:43):
Shout out to Bradford talked about black folks not knowing
what time it is really talked about, like developing his
own alkaline water plant, talked about the ways in which
he farms. I'm gonna visit his farm Thursday morning before
I I'm changing my stuff so i can go to this.

Speaker 6 (01:02:02):
Farm Thursday morning.

Speaker 8 (01:02:04):
And what he said was there are certain things we
need to get in place for the times ahead. And
what I'm thinking about is the fact that if this
timeline that is projected. There's a CNBC article that came
out that's talking about if the tariffs are to have
the economic impact that is suspected, there will be goods,

(01:02:26):
significant amount of goods not on shelves in May, just
in a couple of weeks. So if we don't know
what time it is now, and we can't come together
during the state of the People power toward to determine
how we will take care of ourselves in this moment,
I don't know what we're gonna do, but Bradford's assignment
is to give us the top five things that black
people need to do to hunker down and survive in

(01:02:48):
this moment. I think that the shelves will look like
they did during COVID. I think that we will have
the same type of water shortage as paper towels toilet
paper that we do that we did during COVID and
it's again based on the cnbcpiece. I'm gonna make sure
that we actually get it as a link for our audience.

(01:03:10):
But Apollo Global Management put out a report about this,
and I think that we should look into it. The
other thing that I was going to say is we
will be well when y'all hear this podcast, either we
will be in Birmingham or having just left Birmingham. Over
the weekend, We're going everywhere from New Orleans to Louisville,
to Los Angeles to Detroit, and we asked that you

(01:03:33):
sign on. If you can't sign on, watch the live stream.
Watch the live stream from Atlanta this past weekend. It
was incredible and the energy just feels so good.

Speaker 6 (01:03:43):
I also just.

Speaker 8 (01:03:44):
Want to shout out our research producer Lolo, because life
still lives, and human beings, even on this tour a
still having a very human experience. Lolo lost her cousins
over the weekend and a tragic car acit in and
I'm saying that to say that our first priority on

(01:04:04):
this tour is not pushing policy or chastising people for
what they did or didn't do. It's about taking care
of the human being first. So we have to first
ask each other, even on this podcast, what do you need?
What do you need? Are you okay? And wait and
listen for the answer and see if it's the need
that you can solve. Whether you're a listener or you're

(01:04:25):
a host, you're a producer, what do you need? We
get so short with each other. I was mad at
Nick earlier today, but I.

Speaker 6 (01:04:33):
Was like, put me in the game, coach, what are
we doing? Like I want to hear what Tiffany Andrew
are saying. I want to come in here some abo uh.

Speaker 8 (01:04:39):
But I think that even in that, like we're such
in a rush to give people information, we can't run
over the humans that help us pull this off every
single week. So I love y'all. I appreciate your patience
with me and my voice during this time. I hope
it comes back. If not, I'm just going to be
a ruspie raspet.

Speaker 6 (01:05:00):
Donkey voice.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
In the church and church the past.

Speaker 6 (01:05:11):
I was saying, raspy asking question.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Yes, yes, Ray asking questions.

Speaker 8 (01:05:16):
For a little while, but just praying that it comes back,
because it's really annoying. I like that boy anyway, I
want to I just woke up all day.

Speaker 6 (01:05:25):
I woke I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
I want to know more about the guy when you
go to the farm, if you can take video that
maybe we can share if he's comfortable, Because I'm telling
y'all that's what I want right now, Like how what
do you need? How canna be?

Speaker 6 (01:05:39):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
And if this dude is like, what do we need?
And he got well water and he's like, let's build community.
I mean honestly becauseated oh I thought he had will okay,
Because I mean there is something. There is something to that,
to us growing our own food, you know, as the
FDA is falling apart, there is something as we used

(01:06:02):
to there's something to us building community. And when I
say building community, I don't mean in the abstract way.
I mean literally building homes in areas close to each
other where we can be there for each other and
have our own you know, marketplace with each other, recreating
what used to exist, you know, the nineteenth right in

(01:06:23):
the early part of the nineteenth century.

Speaker 6 (01:06:26):
I just.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
And later and I just means that they destroyed it all,
you know, So the Red Summer.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
And the only reason why I say later is because
some folks may think we had to be here during
slave day, you know, enslavement periods to have known what
it felt like to grow your own.

Speaker 5 (01:06:46):
That's not sure, and it doesn't take all that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
I mean, as a kid, I have very vivid memories
of in the backyard picking lettuce, picking collar greens, shelling.

Speaker 5 (01:06:57):
I mean, we grew every kind of fruit.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Now I lived in Miami at that point, but my
grandmother and grandfather taught us that we fished for you know,
for fish, we had chickens, for poultry. I mean there
was we didn't have to rely on it, but we
still grew it, we still planted it, we still picked it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
And I did that as a kid.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
And so it shouldn't feel so remote and like another
worldish for folks to think about. Tiff, the kind of
I think beloved community that you described where we where
we do rely on and take care of ourselves. And
Angela to your earlier point around shells being empty, you
had the CEOs of Walmart, you had major sort of

(01:07:43):
leaders of industry in the retail space. Get down to
the White House and say, mister President, I want to
predict for you that we're going to have empty shells.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
There will be shells that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Are empty in this country if the tears stay as
they are. So it is if it happens, y'all, it
ain't because they didn't know about it, which out to
send us really spiraling in concern. If it happens, it's
not because the government didn't know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Can I just tell y'all where I go on this weekend?
I am headed back to Michael Harriet's house.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
I love speaking just what I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
This man could build a whole community on his property.
He I won't say exactly where he lives, but he
in the backwoods somewhere like completely mostly off the grid,
but got acres on acres on acres, and it is
it looks like a museum the way that he has
constructed his house. It's a former plantation. The slave quarters
are still he like fixed them up, and his mother
in law lives and he got his mom in law

(01:08:41):
living in the slave quarters. But it's like a beautiful
it's like a four bedroom house. Its beautiful. But it's
just such a great place to write and research and read.
And you know, he's such a historian and an intellectual person.
Just to have conversation with him and his wife, who's
amazing too. So I'm going back there for the for
a little while to write, read and research and just connect,

(01:09:03):
but also explore what it looks like. That's why when
Angela said that, I perked up, like, wait, he got
a farm. He's doing what. I really would love for
us to get back to that. And I think with
the what we're going, it might be.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
It might be.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Angela, if you said, like, I'm gonna buy property in
Mississippi and I'm thinking of just being If you said
I'm gonna buy property in Mississippi'm gonna be a pioneer
and I'm gonna buy some property in Mississippi and I'm
gonna build up this place who down, I promise you
I'd be like, you know what, I'm open to that. Andrew.
If you're like, I'm getting acres, if you say Florida,

(01:09:41):
I mean I would be completely open to that because
I think that's what the ancestors did for us when
they did the Great migration North. It might be time.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
Come on and talk about I mean.

Speaker 8 (01:09:52):
Have farmers we have like acre Boys. There's a group
called acre Boys. I can't remember if I told you
on this show. The Acre Boys came to the Atlanta Step.
They're giving away an acre of land during our tour.
They're giving away an acre of land. They want to
give away more, but they need sponsors to buy it.
They wanted to give away an acre in every stop.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
That would be great guests. If they would make great guests.

Speaker 8 (01:10:14):
They would love to come on here. Let's have them
on next week, love to they would love to come
on there. In fact, they already have a show. A
lot of people followed them. They did a workshop that
was packed telling people about how to acquire land in
the process.

Speaker 6 (01:10:26):
Super good, so they would love to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
I think we should also couple doctor Kanisihah Grant and
some of the others who are extensibly extensively on this
on the great migration and what it would take for
reversal migration in some places where I mean, Mississippi, ain't
that far from folks becoming a majority, from the people
of color becoming a majority, and yet it's a state

(01:10:50):
that is almost fiftieth out of fiftieth and nearly everything
because of their refusal to invest in our people, our community,
and they failed to realize that a rising tide really
does lift all boats. You invest in this group of people,
all y'all gonna make money. It may not even be
our attention. It just happens to happen that way when
you do it the right way. But they're not they're

(01:11:12):
not committed to that. But I think that'd be a
fascinating conversation to began, because most people think it's just
out of touch and out of reach, and I think
they need to hear and feel some real examples of
where as possible.

Speaker 6 (01:11:23):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Well, I know Angela has to go. She's going to
lead a workshop. You are headed to North Carolina, Alabama.

Speaker 8 (01:11:35):
In North Carolina, we go to Birmingham next. So we
have a rally tonight based on when this is recorded
and we have Birmingham of next.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Well, safe travels on the road, congrats on everything happened
on the State of the People tour.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
We can't wait to join.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Yes, we will be joining on one of the stops,
so stay tuned for that and listen you guys. We
really appreciate you all sending in your questions, videos, comments, everything.
We want to encourage you to continue to send those in.
This is your home too, and a platform for you
to share your thoughts, comments, whatever you need and if

(01:12:14):
you like listening to us, tuning in with us. We
consider y'all family. That's why we say welcome home. So
be sure to tell your friends. Be sure if you
just listen, be sure you're also subscribed. You can catch
us on YouTube, you can catch us anywhere you get
your podcasts. And remember we also have our new episodes
drop every Thursday, but there are solo pods that happen

(01:12:36):
on Monday and Tuesday. We have mini pods that happen
on Friday, and our Girl. You can check out a
Machete member, Jamil Hill, she hosts Politics Yes, and there's
another podcast off the Cup that you should be checking out.
Those shows also air on Reason Choice Media, and we
even have a website, y'all. Y'all can visit us on
our website or native Land to get all kinds of

(01:12:57):
information about us, about the show, and you can also
head the State of the People, State of the pp
L to find out where the tour is going next.
So that wraps our show for today. We had we
covered a lot had some technical difficulty. Shout out to you, Nick,
I know we were all probably giving you the blues today,
but thank you for keeping us together. I promise Nick

(01:13:19):
I was gonna be here early and I wasn't. So Nick,
Nick does a great job for all of us. So
thank you to producer Nick Research, Lo loo E, p Lauren,
Podfather Chris and all the people who keep us going.
We really appreciate you, guys. We are your hosts Angela Rie,
Tiffany Cross, and Andrew Gillum. Welcome home, y'all. There are

(01:13:40):
five hundred and fifty one days until midterm elections. If
they in fact, we'll see y'all.

Speaker 6 (01:13:45):
Why I said number not going down last morning.

Speaker 12 (01:13:50):
Thank you for showing the Natives attention of what the
info on all of the latest Rock Gulam and Cross
connective to the statements.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
That you leave on our socials. Thank you for the.

Speaker 12 (01:14:00):
Patients reason for your choice is cleaned so grateful and
took to execute roads. Thank you for serve, defend and
protect the truth human in case it will.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
Walk a home to all of the natives. We thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Native Land Pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership
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