Do WE need to have a talk about BLACK Intellectualism?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native LAMPID is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Resent Choice Media. Welcome home, y'all, This is episode one
hundred and one of Native LAMPI, where we give you
our breakdown of all things politics and culture.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
We are your hosts. Tiffany Cross is right over here.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
I just pulled to Andrew Angela Rai, Andrew Gillim And
speaking of Andrew, we have Andrew Jr. Who's joined us.
His name is Bacari Sellars. What's going on, y'all?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm doing.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Welcome Home, Welcome Home?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yes, indeed, Well we have a pack show. I would
love to know what we're getting into. But before we
do that, I just want to tell y'all. I know
some of you all have been waiting for the Culture
Con episode. We haven't forgot. We just tighten it up,
making sure it's perfect. It's gonna be a little bit longer,
but it is coming very very soon, So please keep
an eye out for the Culture Con live show. It
is our last hurrah without Bacari. So it's a very

(00:59):
very good show. So now that we got cocky Charles
with us, you know, it's a little tough every now
and then, but we're all good. I also want to
let you all know, if you didn't catch it, we
have an episode with Jennae Nelson, who is tremendous lawyer,
the president of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, who also

(01:19):
argued the oral arguments at the Supreme Court of the
United States on the Kyli case in Louisiana. So she
joins us live on an episode that's already been shot,
and we hope that you'll check that out as well. So, anyway, y'all,
what are we getting into today?

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Everybody at once.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
You know, we've been able to caution you so many
times about cross talk. I'm like, I ain't that, I
ain't doing it. It was hers if I could just
give a disclaimer and I apologize to our viewers for
my congestion and whatnot. But in feeling a bit under
the weather, I know, Angela, you've probably passed it off
to me. But there's still active. There's there's a lot,
there's a lot going on. I think one of the things,

(02:07):
you know, we owe it to our listening fan to
tune in on, is this what's happening with Letitia James
at the attorney in New York. But also how this
is sending signals, I think across the country to either break,
bend or bow or resist this administration. Powerful statements that

(02:29):
she made here.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
At the top of the show absolutely tip you know,
oh it sounds like okay, other Tiffany, Hey, Bacar, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
I'm god I am over here treading on this then
ice because Angela gave me my daily dose of humbling
as we go.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Through this, and uh, is there only one thank you?

Speaker 5 (02:51):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (02:51):
The yeah point point five emails? If we're being specific,
not not too much. I do want to I know
I'll probably get to this in my call to action,
So I'm jumping the hoop a little bit. But I
would be remiss if I didn't give a special shout
out to DiAngelo and his family. Our condolences go out

(03:12):
in particularly because there's a young man who lost his
mother and father in the span of a year. Angie Stone,
as we know, passed away earlier this year after a
horrific car crash, and DiAngelo was just, you know, part
of our culture and innate part of our culture growing up.

(03:33):
But one of the things I did want to highlight
is I was going through it and earlier this year
we lost Heer Gotti from fifty four from diabetes. We
lost DJ mister C. We lost Rico Wade early in
his life. As we go through this, we realize that
we've had many people from Magoo at age fifty, DMX

(03:57):
age fifty, Bis, Marquis fifty seven, Coolio, just Shy of sixty,
heavy d who collapsed outside of his home at the
age of forty four. And so I think that maybe
that's a mini pot or something else that me and
Andrew talk about on the side. But all love goes
out to Angie Stone, uh DiAngelo endonnesses and particularly to

(04:21):
their son. They leave here without a mother and a father.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Thank you Bacari for that you are he still knew,
so he has no idea. This part is rapid, but
just know it was because he was trying to be empathetic.
Uh Tip, I want to come to you for your
topics for this.

Speaker 6 (04:38):
Yeah, I'll be brief.

Speaker 7 (04:39):
I'm going to get into I feel like there's an
anti intellectual.

Speaker 6 (04:46):
This Hayes and.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
McCary welcome, brother, welcome.

Speaker 7 (04:51):
But what I want to get into is this anti
intellectual movement that I think is ravaging the Black community.
I think this week a lot of us saw the
clip of Mark Lamont Hill I'm on the Joe Budden Podcast,
and if you didn't, we'll certainly be playing it here.
But beyond just this viral moment, I want us to
get into the dying and the death of black intellectualism

(05:13):
right now.

Speaker 6 (05:14):
So looking forward to get into that.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
My co host, well, thank you, Tip.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
I just want to throw in to the what's clearly
become a remy mock on a day it's a theme.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Are you dumb?

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Because we're gonna get into those text messages from those
young Republicans And also, are you dumb? Gavin Newsom? What's
up with this reparations bill?

Speaker 4 (05:31):
Homie?

Speaker 2 (05:32):
What you got against us?

Speaker 1 (05:33):
So we're gonna talk about why he thinks proposition two
nine still expands into everything black, and uh, maybe he
thinks it's a pathway to the White House. We'll make
sure it's not. So anyway, welcome home, y'all. Were gonna
jump into this show. Okay, So, but car you dropped
this topic in our chat. So do you want to

(05:55):
take us into what these silly Republicans we're talking about
on this chat?

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah? I mean I think that we in this country
have never really dealt with the issue of race. And
I think what you're seeing in these leaked chats from
young Republicans is that we should not look at them
as leaders of the future for the Republican Party. We
should look at them as leaders of right now. And
I think that the racism that is the underbelly of
the Republican Party shown through in those chats. But the

(06:22):
misogyny s took out, the anti semitism. It was very poignant.
And then, I mean, I don't like to necessarily do this,
but if you were to look at many of the
comments these guys made juxtaposed against how these guys look,
they look like the comments they made, if that makes sense.
I mean, so there was nothing attractive about them, and

(06:44):
there was nothing attractive about the words that came out
of their mouth. However, these are people that assume leadership,
and when you look at leaders right now, you know
you have people who are saying, let's not let's not
talk about this at all. This isn't an issue, this
is childhood discretion whatever. Whereas Democrats, whenever this has happened,
we're the first ones to rush through and say people

(07:07):
should not say X, Y Z. And I think The
best example is we are moral compass is one that No,
I'm not telling Jay Jones to get out of the race,
but I'm like Jay Jones, like, what were you thinking
in those text messages? You cannot espouse those things, et cetera.
Let voters determine whether or not they vote for you,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But Jay, you got
to have more discretion in that. You don't see the

(07:29):
same balance on the Republican side when you have that
racism and you have that misogyny, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
And me, let me just I was gonna be yeah,
I was going to back us into what happened, you know,
for we play inside baseball in here sometimes and what
we what we want to do is first make sure
y'all understand what happened. So as young Republican leaders from
all over the country, some of them in elected office,
who had a chat thread. Many of us have chat threads,

(07:57):
but they had a chat thread on Telegram and all
all of their business was telegrammed for the world to see.
In a political article that dropped yesterday, I just want
to add something.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
I'm sorry night yesterday.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
This week tif okay, when we recorded yesterday, so we
had this political article drop. But here's what I think
is important. Since then, there's been an update in y'all's
Vice president jd Vance said since Bacari brought it up,
that Jay Jones texts were far worse than these Republican texts.

(08:29):
These young Republicans are calling saying that I love Hitler,
calling black people monkeys, talking about watermelon and fried chicken,
using the N word, using all kinds of racial slurs,
and talking about turning on gas chambers. Since then, jd
Vance has said that the Young Republicans chat pales in
comparison to Jane Jay Jones's text.

Speaker 6 (08:51):
Can I just want to jump in? So yes, Angela.

Speaker 7 (08:54):
You referenced that this was a story broken by reporting
from Politico off their telegram chats. Just so folks know,
the text messages were spanning more than seven months of correspondence,
and among the people in the chat were young Republican
leaders in New York, Kansas, Arizona, and Vermont. Some of
the texts they referred to black people as monkeys, the

(09:15):
watermelon people. They mused about their political putting, their political
opponents and opponents in gas chambers. And some of the
There were twenty nine hundred pages of the chats and
they were shared among millennial and gen Z repeaters Republicans
forgive me. And this was between January and August, and
it chronicles a campaign to seize control of the Republican

(09:37):
Party to be hardliners on the Trump agenda.

Speaker 6 (09:40):
So when you think about what that means.

Speaker 7 (09:42):
Roger Stone made a comment about one of the people's
Peter Gunta I think is his name, and he was saying, well,
this is not the Peter I know. And I just
find it so incredibly arrogant when people say that about things,
as though your experience centers what happens with this person.
I would just further say that anyone who is surprised

(10:03):
by these texts has not been paying attention to what
has happened in the Republican Party. You guys have been
referencing Jay Jones. If you can just share with our
viewers who that is, what he's running for and the
depths behind him.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yes, he's running for attorney general in Virginia. I think
we got a delay with Bakari. Sorry, b I think
you were just about to start talking.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
No, I don't know if I have a delay or not.
I'm sorry. I'm just bringing all types of hiccups to
the show. But they'll smooth out. And that's why I'm platinum.
That's why they called me platinum ratings. Shit just work out.
That's what happens when you blessed. It just work out.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
But I know you better speed up your WiFi.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
J Jones is running for Attorney General of the Great
State Commonwealth of Virginia. J Jones he had some comments,
sharing some comments with a Republican colleague of his who
leaked those to the press. In those comments, Jay Jones
talked about UH some of the thoughts he had in
his head about using bullets and weapons and violence against

(11:07):
his peers and colleagues. He was then told to stop,
and then he called his colleague and kind of reiterated
some of the same views he had about wanting to
UH to go down the path of political political violence.
And it is now it's caught fire. Stephen Miller talks
about it, Jadie Vance has talked about it. Everyone has
talked about it. Because as we know, and I hope

(11:29):
our viewers know, the most one of the most important
races we have coming up extremely soon is the race
in Virginia for not only governor but the entire state
lieutenant governor and attorney general as well. And Jay is
somebody I know. Jay's a young black attorney, great guy,
and I think that even when we make mistakes, I
think Democrats sometimes are oftentimes are are reluctant to say, like,

(11:51):
what the were you doing? But this is a what
the were you doing? Moment?

Speaker 4 (11:57):
Well, you know what I don't get is what kind
of for Jay may have felt with his Republican colleague
to exchange those kinds of messages in the first place.
And by the way, I don't want to both sides
this thing. I know they're bringing this up in the
context of what the California kids, young Republicans, whatever it is. Tiffany,
you had a term that you didn't mean to call them,

(12:20):
but it was. It was. It was interesting and now
I lose thought on it, but it was. I liked it.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
It seemed consulting.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
But in essence, you know, what these young people did
is not excusable. It's certainly treads along a pattern of thinking,
probably of being a way in which they see the world,
and they make no apologies about expressing themselves that way.
Certainly not over a six seven month span of time,

(12:47):
where there's no contradiction, there's only a doubling down and
the line of thinking, in the line of the way
in which they perceive and the way in which they
talk about folks of color, black folks and their political opponents.
Jay obviously elected official who in my opinion, really ought
to know better and certainly should be questioning whether or

(13:12):
not he should have ever been in a conversation one
like this, but two with the Republican colleague that he
thought was what gonna have his back one day, when
these folks have shown us time and time again that
that's not who they are. So I'm a little baffled
on that one, and I would love a more complete
and exhaustive explanation about what happened. But but I think

(13:35):
on the young Republicans part of this thing for a
long time, y'all, a lot of us operated by the
belief that with time and with progress, that party produces
a more enlightened person, It produces a person who is
more reflective of their time, if you will, And I
just think that we've been shown time and time again.
If it isn't for the Dylan roofs of the world,

(13:57):
or the young white male extremists who are right now,
you know, frankly the most dangerous thing walking around in America.
And when they make us the ire of their impact,
really bad stuff happens in our community. So I'm disabolved
myself of the belief that over time we'll get people
who are more thoughtful and who reflect a more diverse

(14:20):
world around them, because exactly what I think we're getting
our throwback to, you know, the nineteen forties, fifties, sixties.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
These folks are.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
Trying to they're trying to go further back in the
history of this country and make it our future. Rather
than representing a more how would you say, multi racial
demographic society. They're resisting it at every single turn. And
I just think we ought to disavow ourselves the notion
that with age and with maturity and with the changing

(14:50):
of ages and time, that we're going that it's going
to produce a better human On the other side, it.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Is as better. It's really not.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
And I think that that is the part, Like we
keep talking about we're going back in time. I think
that it is the past president, it is the future
until they decide to turn over a new leaf. You
know what's fascinating to me is, you know, I have
again some of these private chats, especially with my girls,
and we also have lamented what happens if our chats

(15:16):
are ever leaked. It's not because we calling people racist names.
You know, it's like, what is going on. We're talking
about interpersonal conflict, you know, breakups or how to navigate finances,
but we're not talking about this. So I think what
is baffling to me is that one it is not
a bigger story. Two that there are folks who would say, oh,

(15:38):
they just had a lapse in judgment and give and
even call them young people. These are grown men. These
are grown men who are grown enough to hold leadership
position in the Republican Party. And here's the part that's said,
I'm sure y'all can align with this. It would be
one thing if what they put in text did not
translate into policy. And on that right to the point

(16:01):
where you know, again, the more progressive side of the country,
the best coast I like to call it, has decided
that a state of emergency is necessary right in La
County given the number of ice raids that are taking
place that is just one area where we see these
policies being so detrimental, the racist ideology, the white supremacy

(16:22):
behind these policies being what is guiding how they interface
with other Americans and other human beings. Okay, that's fine,
we can move on. There is there a clip.

Speaker 6 (16:39):
I don't not one, but the way you said about
I was like, oh, there must be.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Sound that I'm watching them. No, I was going into
ICE rays. It is, uh, it is. It is a
clear indication of how they legislative.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
We want to move over to no.

Speaker 6 (16:54):
No, no, let's know that that's on the sea loot.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (16:59):
I think you're right, hundred percent right, Angela. And you know,
I think we have to start questioning how do we
even know that these are ICE agents and quotations snatching
people off the street. There's already been consistent reporting from
numerous outlets, including CNN, of verified incidents with people impersonating
ICE agents. How do we even know that these people

(17:21):
are officially government sanctioned? How do we know these aren't
proud boys just out here doing some sort of mercenary
work for this administration. It's just getting to the point
where it's so dangerous and a conversation I had this weekend.
I told you guys last week that I was off
to Michael Harriet's for his Standers party. I missed you
guys there. You all were busy this weekend. But we

(17:45):
talked about what is the point? Was the question I asked,
is what is the point when I say, what am
I going to regret six months from now? When they
indicted to James, Was that the day that I should
have said, you know what, I got to get the
fuck out of here. When they started snatch people off
the streets and we normalized it, was that the day
that I should have said, time to get my passport

(18:06):
and gives guy to here. And as we see this
happening increasingly and they're flooding the zone with chaos, I
fear that people are tuning out or normalizing chaos to
where chaos seems normal and quiet seems eerie. And I
just don't know what it's going to take. California is
on the front line, but we see what this's happening
in Chicago is coming to Portland, like authoritarianism is coming

(18:29):
soon to a city near you.

Speaker 6 (18:31):
And what will we do when that shows up? And
I don't and I don't have a solution for that.

Speaker 7 (18:36):
I don't have advice for people, but it is increasingly
frightening as I see what's happening across the country, and
I am giving more serious consideration every day to the
internal argument do we fight or do we flee?

Speaker 4 (18:51):
I'm sorry, yeah, please book Ard, no please.

Speaker 8 (18:56):
No, no, no.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
And my question is just it centers around helping me
articulate my thoughts, whether or not I'm communicating on CNN,
or whether or not I am with Tremaine, my barber,
who tightened me up. As you'll see, I'm looking fresh
for the show.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
I trying to clean up very lovely.

Speaker 6 (19:13):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
For the compliment. But how do we connect? Because people
people will say, what is the connection? And I think
we take this connection for granted, but how do you
connect the text messages, text messages we saw and we
talked about, how do you connect that incendiary, hyper ignorant

(19:35):
racism and misogyny and the policy that we're seeing. Because
a lot of people I talk to are just missing
that connection. They don't understand how you get from the
or they just say that there is no connection. But
how you get from these young Republicans who are manifesting
themselves into leadership and their racism dictating policy. How can

(19:59):
we communicate that better? How can I communicate that better?
Connecting A to B. Does that make sense?

Speaker 4 (20:04):
Well, I don't know that you have to do a
better job, because I think you are one of our
better communicators on television. But I think people have to
look no further than you take these text messages from
these Republicans over here and you connect it directly to
Project twenty twenty five. The reason they can throw, the
reason they can dismiss a quarter million black women off

(20:25):
the job and have no remorse, have no care concern
in the world for how those folks are going to
provide for themselves, their children, their grandchildren, or whomever it
is that they take responsibility for them, take responsibility for themselves.
They don't have to see the humanity in those folks
because they never ever considered it in the first place.

(20:47):
They if you have compared a woman a human to
a monkey, right, swinging from trees eating bananas, And that's
not to insult the monkey, right, This is outside of that.
This is if you consider them non human. They care not,

(21:09):
they feel not, They have no needs nothing that resembles
what you would want for your family or what you
need for your family, then it's easy to castigate them.
When I listen to Stephen Miller and the way in
which he talks about the opposition, you would almost think
one you would never conclude that this is a human

(21:30):
opposition like that. There's no way that these folks live,
breathe draw air, you know, oxygen, survive off of the
you know the same thing, right, And in his mind's eye,
I have to believe that he makes no likeness between
him and the people who he opposes. You are nothing,
you will be nothing. You are you know you're not

(21:52):
worth this that and the third, how can you muster
that kind of animis towards your fellow man or woman. Well,
the only way you can muster that kind of animists
towards somebody like that is one if you don't see
them as equal to you. Right, they are of no
equal to you. And I got a funny comparison, but
I won't make it here, But basically it's that they

(22:12):
screw somebody you like and you kind of got some
issues with them. That's the only time I've ever seen
that level of animis directed toward somebody on the opposite
side is if you have been thoroughly royally messed over
by them, or that you don't see them on your level,
not needing the same things you do, not appreciating the
same things you do. And I said that sort of jocularly,

(22:33):
but in truth, that's the only time I've ever had deep, deep, deep,
non humane animists for a person is in those kinds
of stark contrasts. So I don't think people have to
make the conclusion, don't think they have to connect them.
But for those of us who are looking on trying
to say, why should it matter to me that these
guys are raising up yet another generation of racist haters,

(22:54):
is because they're racist haters one day become JD bands
And but for their pretty words and they're pretty grees,
they're acceptable in society, and we never have to trace
back to the fact that they don't see their fellow
human as you may at all.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, And I think, go ahead, tip.

Speaker 6 (23:11):
Huh oh, No, I was I was gonna shift because he.

Speaker 8 (23:16):
Yes, nobody knows.

Speaker 6 (23:31):
When you're not intellectual.

Speaker 5 (23:34):
You.

Speaker 7 (23:35):
I think sometimes they see the the white man doesn't
believe in himself enough, so he I think gets frustrated
when he sees black people looking at an unleveled plan
field and saying, watch me hurdle all of this that
you put at me and still be successful. And sometimes
we can adopt the oppressor's behavior. Which brings me to

(23:55):
a clip that went viral this week, and that is
of course, of our friend and brother, Mark Lamont Hill.
This happened on the Joe Budden broadcast this week. Take
a list and then we'll discuss on the other side.

Speaker 8 (24:08):
So if you allown to it because you said a
lot of tricky words.

Speaker 9 (24:10):
No, I don't say regular boys tricky to you.

Speaker 10 (24:12):
Even if you do win famous you try to point
out everything.

Speaker 8 (24:15):
Else that nobody do.

Speaker 9 (24:16):
That's sucking ship to me to take that.

Speaker 7 (24:23):
Okay, I know that was difficult to watch. I wanted
to play it for that clip specifically because, first of all,
I thought Mark Lamont Hill handled himself so incredibly well,
standing across from a full blown temper tantrum from a
grown man, and I think it's important for our viewers.
If you don't know abart about Mark Lamant Hill, he

(24:45):
is a luminary. He is an incredible intellectual who hosts
an amazing show on Al Jazeera I'm called up Front,
he hosted on Al Jazeera English. One of his interviews
went viral during a post October seventh where he got
the former Israeli Deputy Minister uh Danny Aylin to admit
to concede that the response to Palestinians and Gaza was

(25:10):
in fact collective punishment. He owns a bookstore. He's an
amazing writer, He's a professor. He was unfortunately dismissed from
CNN because he said from the river to the sea
while speaking at the u N. If you're like me,
you might genuinely wonder why is that considered anti Semitic.
Some people of the community consider it so because Hamas

(25:31):
used this phrase in twenty seventeen. Uh and some members
of the Jewish Committee community thinks the phrase suggests that
as a Palestinian h millik group, militant group and only
used in that perspective that suggests that Israel does not
have the right to exist. Mark mont Hill has been
incredibly clear that he does not believe that it was

(25:53):
a call for justice, and he made the reference when
he was addressing the u N and he was just
supporting Palestinian freedom which of course I certainly do as well.
But this is why I thought I wanted to get
my co host perspectives on this. There seems to be
the death of black intellectualism, particularly when it comes to

(26:15):
who has a microphone and viral clips like this take
up so much space. To me, it was clear that
his co host felt small, and you know, even him
saying you use tricky words and Mark responding with I
use words that are tricky to you. And anytime somebody
I think cannot take to be questioned or responds with

(26:38):
a full temper tantrum, it is always about that other person,
not about like it wasn't Mark. He didn't do anything.
And if someone is so small that you can't articulate
your point without throwing a temper tantrum or insulting another person.
I'm happy that Mark showed both tides that yes, I'm
an intellectual, but don't give up in this studio, you know,

(26:59):
And I think it's import and for people to see
that yes you can still be an intellectual and demand
your respect. That doesn't make you soft. I'm concerned though,
in our community because when you look at the just
the plain data, you can take my perspectives out of it.
There seems to be an erosion. I don't consider myself

(27:21):
a member of the black intellectual class, but I do
thrive in that space. I love to be around sometimes Andrew,
when you're talking, I forget I'm a host on the podcast,
Like I'm just listening to you because you're saying something
so brilliant to me, or something that I didn't know.
I had no perspective, and I enjoy hearing that I
have curiosity.

Speaker 6 (27:38):
I don't.

Speaker 7 (27:39):
I'm not trying to be fake humble, like I don't
consider myself an intellectual. I consider myself intellectually curious. I
have questions. I see that getting dulled across peers and
across the community. Social media, I think, is a big
part of that. A study out of UC San Diego
found that even low levels of social media use are
associated with poor cognitive out comes, particularly among children AI.

(28:02):
People keep promoting AI like oh, look at this fancy
new toy and not immediately countering it with the dangers
of our community. The level of cognitive impairment of even
just moderate use of AI like chat GPT is comparable
to being concussed. Our literacy rates across black children. I'm
only seventeen percent of black fourth graders scored at or

(28:23):
above proficiency. Eighth graders could not a significant percentage of
eighth graders could not read a paragraph and summarize it
and say what it is. We're in a space we're
telling people it's a time for reading books is considered
the leitist and it's just frustrating to me. And I
have to say, I'm sure we'll disagree here, or maybe

(28:45):
we won't disagree, but I hope there are different perspectives
than mine, because I have to say I am one
of those people. I do not respect everybody's opinion the
more like just because you have a microphone, I don't
always respect your opinion. This guy who's talking, I don't
respect his opinion. I Andrew, we talked. I'm not Mary,
I don't have children. If I'm giving you advice on either,

(29:06):
it's totally fine for you to say, what are you
basing this on? Where did you get that information from?
And I'm not going to be offended by you asking
me that, because even if I might be right, you
don't have to respect my opinion. I don't respect everybody's
opinion on politics. You might be right on occasion. I
don't respect your opinion, So I just think in this
environment of these viral clips, I'm curious y'all take on

(29:27):
all of this because I don't want to make it
just about Mark. But Mark is there because people turn
their back on him. Mark should not be on this podcast.
He gets the opportunity to talk to people. But Mark
should still be at CNN, if you ask my opinion,
Mark should have had a contract soon as seeing this
every let you go, somebody should have snatched Mark up
and said that. And I just think they put dumb

(29:47):
people on TV sometimes just because you have more likes
than followers, and they don't celebrate our intellectualism. So I
leave it there.

Speaker 6 (29:56):
Love to hear y'all thoughts.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
That's right, well one, I hope we hope we never
get to a place of self censoring. I think it's
important for us to bring our full belief cell full
sales to this podcast because that's what our listeners, the
people who ride with us expect, is that will be
as directed through the cannon. I will be very honest.
I've never listened to the Button by the Joe Budden

(30:23):
podcast before. This was the first clip I've ever seen
of it is with is with Mark on it, and
that probably distances me even greater from a lot of
folks out there who probably you know, it's the number
five or top five or top ten for a reason
that means people are going there to subscribe. The reason
why I think I value a voice like Marx being

(30:45):
able to cut through in a top ten, top five
audience is that at least somebody gets an exposure to
his perspective that may not have otherwise had it. But
exactly what they're getting exposed to also matters. I don't
know if that's the rhythm of it from day to

(31:05):
day or whatever's broadcast week to week whenever it shows,
but I've got to believe that knowing Mark well enough
that on a regular basis, he's probably being able to
enter into that conversation, that discussion a higher level of
discourse than what we saw exhibited there. Maybe he's entering

(31:29):
into entering into that conversation some terms, some theory of changes,
some beliefs that then people go and google afterwards they
didn't know before, and now the curiosity has been piqued
and they're going to check it out and to that extent,
I think that is a good thing. I think it
is probably not a good thing in society when sort

(31:50):
of our thoughtful folks are only talking to other thoughtful folks.
I think that's probably not the setup that we want. However,
I know for sure I don't want to watch that
fight every day. I don't want to watch that kind
of discourse every day. I don't know that I want
to see it any day. To be frank frank with you, Tiffany,
what you brought up around some of the literacy rates.

(32:10):
What the damage that AI is doing to quote unquote
simplify somebody's life. But what is it dus life? Is
it dumbing down in the process? That bothers me to
a great extent. My kids know when they walk in
the door after they get they snacked, the first thing
they doing for the first thirty minutes at home is
reading a book. The books are I shouldn't hear your voice.

(32:31):
The book isn't talking out loud whatever, you know, And
we're conscious about that, we were conscious. My kids hate it.
But when they do birthday cards, they write the birthday
card one, I'm sick of paying three dollars, four dollars,
five dollars for kids' birthday card. That's crazy to me.
But but but more importantly, the art of writing, of
just articulating a sentiment. When my son Jackson wrote his

(32:52):
first birthday card and it ended up being a paragraph long,
I was over the moon because I was impressed by
the by the sentiment he was expressing. I don't want
our kids to lose that, and I think it's really
incoming upon the parents to weigh down on them to
make sure that we're curating some of that experience for them.
I know these sound like two separate kinds of kinds
of conversations, but it really isn't. Because if you teach

(33:14):
your child to come to expect a certain thing to
exchange at a certain level of discourse, then that's what
they're going to do. But if you put no expectation
out there and the world starts to shape that for them,
then that's some of what I think you get.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
I heard Tiff at the outset say that she thought
that Mark handled himself well in the exchange, and I
can't tell you all how much I cringe looking at
that exchange. I have been in conversation, in relationship with

(33:51):
people that take you completely off of your square and
who you are, who you have evolved out of. And
I think for me, what's frustrating, and this is something
that I would tell our friend as well, is I
never want anybody to take take any of us off
of our square, but particularly not him. He just has

(34:13):
so much to the world now, to so much to
add to the world.

Speaker 5 (34:15):
Now.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
I'll say the first to call myself sophistic ratchet all
day long, All day long, I believe in you know,
both sides, like you might, depending on the mood, you
might if if I'm feeling froggy, I might leap. But
what I don't like is I know firsthand that the
founder of Uncle Bobby's that's striving to ensure that black

(34:36):
folks can read in a neighborhood that he loves and Philly,
the same person that's creating black jobs and providing opportunity
for our folks, doesn't want to show up that way
for himself, for his family, first kids, for anybody. And
so what I really want to ask us to consider
is how do we resolve conflict when things are heated

(34:58):
without name calling, without attacking someone's intellect or lack thereof.
I think that we can lovingly challenge people to rise
up without calling them them or anti intellectual.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Sure, it's that is where we are.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
But is there another way to call people in I
don't think that Mark should be left holding the bag
in this exchange. I take great issue with that podcast
and it's treatment of Mark. And I was wondering when
when he was gonna when he was gonna snap. You know,
there's another clip that I don't know if you all saw, uh,

(35:34):
where Mark announces very vulnerably that he's lost almost all
of his colleagues that were reporting in Gaza, and by lost,
I mean they are killed. They were they they died
in their reporting.

Speaker 11 (35:49):
And then around the world we're seeing violence everywhere, including
guys that where I were for Al Jazeera and my colleagues.
Every colleague I having guys has been murdered. Every single
colleague I have in guys that has been murdered. So
we got a lot of work to do, a lot
of stuff to.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
Pay attention to.

Speaker 10 (36:03):
All Right, young thug, Uh, every time you do that?
He doing so fast? Yeah, he doing it again? By
you don't never support him when you start talking that ship.

Speaker 8 (36:24):
He has my full support.

Speaker 12 (36:25):
But I also know that once he says something like
that or we discussed something like that, then we're just like, Okay,
what's the fucking pivot?

Speaker 2 (36:33):
What's the pivot?

Speaker 12 (36:33):
After we talk about every journalist in on the Gadza
strip being murdered, Like, what's the pivot?

Speaker 10 (36:40):
So Young Thugs appeared on Little Babies Project, quite the project, and.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
He's sharing vulnerably he's lost all his people and Joe,
Butten's transition not this other guy. I don't know the
everybody's name, but not this other guy, Joe Buden's transition
is like and Young Thug like just no mintion of
like are you okay?

Speaker 1 (37:01):
How do you feel? Who was lost this week? How
did they die? Just like nothing? So two tips point
around curiosity. If you can't find curiosity, find sympathy. If
you can't find sympathy, find empathy. If you can't find empathy,
find compassion because if you don't, the person who is
in a constant state of grief, at some point that

(37:24):
grief turns to rage because there's not a safe.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Container for it.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
So we say on this show, welcome home, and we
mean that, of course Mark is welcome anytime. I don't
know about the rest of them. But I will just say,
you know, I don't think that that means that we
should be foreclosed to having discussions that are tough, or
where we don't think people are our peers or.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
We're on the same level. I'm not into that.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
But where I see folks who are constantly unwilling to
have conversations that stretch, or to have conversations where they
at least can appreciate a different perspective, I don't know
that I'm into that, So I just I I just
want marching on. I'm praying for you, brother, you know that,
And I just I want better for him. I think
that he deserves to hold space with people who are

(38:07):
at least more compassionate and more eager to learn from
his perspective. And clearly, you could take a negro out
the hood, but you can't take the hood out the negro.
So you might not want to keep leaping at Mark.
He might just snap and bust your ass next time.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
I don't want him to do that. But I mean
it was getting Real Housewives to me. Okay, well, we
have more on Marca mont Hill and what happened on
the Joe Butden podcast, right, on the other side.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Of his break.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
So I think this is a multifaceted discussion that I'm
glad to be having in this space with you all,
because I think I agree on many points and then
I disagree with some that I'll kind of get to.
But I think the reason this conversation is important with
Tiffany is because we live in a culture of anti
intellectualism and we have to understand that, and most of

(39:11):
that is intentional. In this country right now, we literally
punish kids because of the zip code they're born into.
And what I mean by that, and I think Andrew
may recall this from his time as being mayor, is
that the way we fund our schools right now is
from federal funding, state funding, and local funding. And so

(39:31):
if you're from a poor area like where I'm from,
I was going to catch twenty two when I was
legislating because I couldn't recruit industry because I had poor schools.
But I had poor schools because I couldn't recruit industry,
and so it becomes very cyclical about the resources. And
I mean, to TIFF's greater point, we're not preparing young
people for twenty first century global economy. We're not giving

(39:53):
them access. And right now, the proverbial world is flat
because when you graduate from Denmark, South Carolina, where I'm from,
or Tallaha I see, or Seattle or wherever you may
be from, you're now competing with kids who finish all
around the world, and it contributes to this culture of
anti intellectualism. I think Mark's purpose there and I love
Mark Lamont Hill. We disagree on a lot of things substantively.

(40:14):
We hit each other up policy, we try to have
these intellectual discussions back and forth. He's somebody who sharpened you.
But I think Mark is there intentionally. I think Mark
is there purposefully. I think that it adds the dynamic
and I going back to our conversations that we've had
in the past, you cannot let things go in a
vacuum without them being challenged, and so I do think

(40:36):
that there is an added value to having someone like
Mark lamon Hill being there. You know, I watch the
show every now and then, Andrew, I'm not a I
can't consume everything all the time, but I do watch
it every now and then. And you know, I know
I think his name is Flip. I guarantee you I

(40:57):
know ten flips. I know one of Mark Clamant Hill,
because that's just the level of intellect. But I know
ten flips at minimum, and I think the way they
were able to have that conversation, as cringe as it is,
are conversations that happen more often than people actually think,
or they're conversations that people want to have. I'm not

(41:20):
in a position to give Mark Lamont Hill any advice,
but what I would tell him if I talked to
him the day or tomorrow, and I might hit him
up on text, is what my daddy told me, which
is that you never argue with a fool because people
watching can't tell the difference, right. And so you know,
in the South Carolina we say you roll around with pigs,
you both get muddy, and the pig likes it, right,
And so there's this certain level of kind of checks

(41:43):
and balances that goes through your head. But I love
the layered dynamic that is Mark Lamont Hill from Philadelphia.
I think Andrew has the same thing in him, like
there is a certain level of respect that you must have,
which is also why I'm pushing back on one of
your points, Tiffany. There is a certain level of respect
you must have going into these conversations, right, and it's

(42:06):
a respect. We will never have that because we all
have that level of respect for each other. And what
you saw in that episode was that respect being fractured.
And whenever that respect is fractured, you have to be
willing to bust someone's ass, right, And you I mean
not not literally, but you got to.

Speaker 8 (42:26):
Show that you are or literally or literally.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
Because because because I mean t I is somebody who
talks about it often oftentimes cliper areas. You never get
that back. You never get that back, right. And so
I loved how layered the discussion was. It was very real.
You know, it's cringe worthy to watch all those things,
but it was very, very real. And I think that
I took something out of that where I think that

(42:51):
people were extremely proud Mark Lamont Hill uh stood up
for himself in that moment. I think that I respect
Flip's opinions, all though they aren't maybe to the level
of likening, of intellectual capacity or whatever, but there's so
many people that have it that I'm not ready to
cast him aside. I want him to have more conversations

(43:11):
with Mark Lamont Hill. I want him to approach these
conversations with respect. I want Mark to approach those conversations
with flip with respect. I think we have to do
that when we're going on college campuses or going out
in the world. I mean, you have to have this
level of respect because that is the only way information
will free flow. The last thing that I'll say is

(43:32):
something that you and Andrew said which made me kind
of jump a little bit, is it's about It's about
AI and the way that we approach it right And
I think and I know that we probably will get
to the same place, but the way that it was
couched it scares me a little bit. And the reason
it scares me is because many times black folk end

(43:55):
up in diametrical opposition from the next thing. And what
I don't want to do is ever frame us, because
it will leave us behind. I want us to be
a part of this new revolution. I want us to
find our footing in artificial intelligence. I want us to
be able to accept it in our communities. I want
us to be able to monetize it in our communities.

(44:17):
I want us to be able to use it in
our communities. I will it contribute to the culture of
anti intellectualism, probably, but we also do we want it
to contribute to the culture of anti intellectualism and to
leave us behind in terms of being a part of
this ship that we know is coming. Or do we
take this posture being anti intellectual? I mean, we take

(44:39):
this posture being anti AI to a point where again
we're talking about man if thirty years ago, forty years ago,
fifty years ago, we would have been on the front
lines of XYZ, It's different. This isn't a this is
not an indictment on Andrew talking about the way that
he integrates books with his children, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. And I want to be clear about that
because I try to do the same thing. I want
my kids to be well rad I want that I'm

(45:00):
actually going to steal that thing about writing birthday cards,
not because I'm as cheap as Andrew, but because I
think it's just a good parenting idea. But I do
want us to to kind of posture ourselves with this
new innovation is not just looking at the detriment but
also looking at the plus. Mind you, I'm not someone
who knows all the pluses, but I'm willing to try.

Speaker 6 (45:20):
I hear you Andrew. I mean, I'm.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
I'm about to go markle My Hill and his mother,
and that's what I'm about to do.

Speaker 6 (45:36):
I don't want to know.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Here's the thing, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Tip you he ain't coming because guess what you behind
a screen, he feel a real bowl right over there.

Speaker 6 (45:45):
I hear you on the A.

Speaker 7 (45:47):
I point And just in transparency, I did reach out
to Mark and invite him on our show and he
enthusiastically accepted. So look for Mark to join the podcast
in the coming weeks and I can't wait to have
him here to invite him. And I'm so happy Angelaie
referenced that other clip because that was the other clip
that I was so offended by. But to your point,

(46:07):
Bakari one about AI, it's not, you know, I don't
think the answer to you know, will dis contribute to
anti intellectualism. Probably the answer is absolutely like we have
the data right now this shows that. But I do
take your point, and I'm in this debate with almost
everybody I talked to about and as Angelin knows, I
don't like the debate. But I'm in this debate because

(46:29):
people are trying Because people are trying to convince me.

Speaker 6 (46:32):
To like AI, and I'm like, I'm not.

Speaker 7 (46:35):
I know it's necessary, it's here, but I'm not going
to be one of these people. It's like, I'm so
excited about AI. I do think just like social media,
it does intellects, and I think us we grew up
without social media, we grew up without AI, and so
our brains are wired differently where we can utilize these
tools and still maintain some level of cognitive function. Young

(46:56):
people do not have that privilege. I also will say,
on this an area where we likely disagree, I made
the cheese may stand alone on this one too. I'm
not saying it's something wrong with engaging the flips of
the world. I would never say Andrew Bacari Angela, y'all
should not engage the flips. I'm saying I, Tiffany, have

(47:16):
no desire to engage.

Speaker 6 (47:18):
The flips of the world.

Speaker 7 (47:19):
I don't choose to be in a conversation. But that's
just not my ministry. I wouldn't be good at it,
and I just have no desire. And yes, I do
maintain I do not respect everybody's opinion on everything, and yes,
we respect each other's opinion here on most things, but
there are some things. I mean, Bikari, if you came
to me and was like, oh your period coming, you

(47:39):
got a cramp, this is what you need to do,
I'm probably like, what are you basing that on?

Speaker 6 (47:43):
Bcar? Like where did you get that from? Like that's
not necessarily your area of expertise, So I might not.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
I got that off. I got that off Instagram. The lady.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Listen and how bad the crabs are.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
I might listen to a wh.

Speaker 7 (48:06):
But I hear that so often and people are like, oh, well,
I got a hunch, or I got it off Instagram,
or I saw it on TikTok, or I know for
a fact, Well, how do you know for a fact?
And then more often people told me because so and
so told me that you don't know for a fact.
If you didn't talk to the source, then you don't
know something for a fact. So I don't respect everyone's.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
Opinion sports and your.

Speaker 6 (48:31):
All, how dare you?

Speaker 7 (48:32):
I am happy to be the sports expert, but there
are some things that y'all shouldn't.

Speaker 6 (48:37):
Respect my opinion on, like and I think that.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Let me just say this, Let me say what my
fear is when I go into conversations about respect. And
also let me just say that Tiffany and people that
are listening, protect your peace right. You were the only
one that knows how to make sure that you are
as healthy mentally and emotionally to go forward. Amen, And
I don't want you decompensating overdoing some other bullshit that

(48:59):
otherwise you and do. However, my only point in saying
that we have to approach these conversations in respect, and
I'm glad that Mark is having these conversations, is that
particularly with black folks and black intelligentsia, the gulf between
black intelligentsia and those people who are intellectually curious is widening.

(49:21):
A lot to do with societal and policy factors, but
also whether or not we want to hear this or not,
we're pushing them away, and so I think we have
to be very cognizant. And we speaking I'm not speaking French,
I mean global weed. I mean we have to be
very cognizant that sometimes you want to say, Man, I
just want to have a conversation with Andrew Gilloman marcom

(49:42):
On Hill. You know, those are the people I want
to talk to because those are the people that get
me and we can talk about politics with some depth.
And then when somebody asks you a question and they
come to you and they're like, man, so again, you know,
Steven A was talking about this in Jasmine Crockett on appropriations,
and then you don't want to go there with them
because of that intellect, actual curiosity, and you push them away.

(50:02):
Then they begin to seek out other sources. And so
I'm trying to figure out how we how we feel
that vacuum. And that's why, you know Mark, if Mark
got it, I'll pay for some boxing lessons. That's what
it takes for him to go and be successful on
the Joe Button podcast. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (50:19):
You know what I wish we had started with, and
I know we're wrapping this topic up. I wish we
would have started with what we think we heard in
the exchange, you know, just a little interpretation of what
that idea actually didn't. What I will say is I
didn't think that there were fancy words dividing what each
of them understood the other to be saying. It wasn't
a vocabulary contest. It was somebody saying, you're always using

(50:42):
words that feel bigger than what this conversation really ought
to be. About to impress somebody and to cuddle up
to this audience and to make you know, people feel
better about this part of that part. And he said, nah,
I didn't do that. You think they're big words because
you don't always understand them, and dudes like, nah, I
don't you just always you know, you're always doing too much.
But we can go on and all that, But there
were there were not big divides in understanding what the

(51:05):
other was saying. I completely I feel like I followed
what the beef may have been or been or may
not have been about. And that's why this whole idea
that some condescension and the way in which we talk
about these things has to take place in order for
us to be on the same plane of debate is
a little weird to me. I think a lot of
times it may make us feel good to say we

(51:25):
got to use a different vocabulary in order for all
of us to be on the same page, but at
a very different level, I don't think the vocabulary is
the problem at all. I'm hearing exactly, I'm picking up
exactly what you're putting down. I'm picking it all up.
I'm telling you, this is the part about it where
you're not gonna come at me that way and you're
still coming. But you're not gonna come at me that
way and you're still coming. And so what has to

(51:47):
happen is it's not like we're refusing to have the conversation.
The conversation is being had. It's absolutely being had. Now,
whether or not you're properly interpreting you know, you know
my disc versus you're that is something completely different. I
resent the idea that you have to speak Why can't
we call up instead of acting down or calling down?

(52:10):
What is the matter we're calling up into a conversation?

Speaker 6 (52:14):
What's that mean?

Speaker 4 (52:15):
Calling for me? It simply is we don't have to
use cuss words the whole way through in order for
us to feel like we're having a very gutter, you know,
conversation that everybody can reach into. But what do you
mean precisely what you just said, what you just exampled.
It's just one way at it that I think sometimes

(52:35):
this whole idea of meeting people at their level and
this sort of thing is an insult to the people
for whom you think you're a meeting that sometimes that
that meeting can take place at a very common place,
at a very decent and respectable place, without us going,
you know, without us going outside ourselves.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
You know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm over here in justing.
I'm working, y'all, and I'm trying. I'm doing the best
I can with the.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
I feel man's explain.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
I'm gonna say he really does have a delay. Is
getting on our nerves. But I will just say this too.
I think it is really important for us to understand
that sometimes this is about inadequacy. And I think that
if our if anybody should understand what it is like
to feel voiceless or silenced, what it is like to

(53:27):
feel unheard or invisible, unseen, I think it's to be
black folks.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
And that's why I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
How we got to a place where our conversations are
so siloed. You know, the construct of the neighborhood doesn't
look the same anymore. There's gentrification.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
The kids.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
You know, some kids are going to private school and
their parents afford it, can afford to send them there,
but they still trying to find them communal activities. Some
of our folks, but there are so many more who
don't feel comfortable sending black kids with other black children,
and so they are siloed. And I do think we
have an obligation for unity's sake, just for math, like
there ain't enough of us for all of these additional divides.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
This man on this show, though, hattn't.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
I don't feel come to terms with the fact that
he is on the other side of disrespect too often
with Mark, And so what Mark was focused on someone
who is smart, and we know in our community sometimes
when you're smart, you are bullied like all of your life,
Like you are bullied if you're the one that seen
reading books and you don't play at recess sometimes because

(54:37):
you want to do your homework or whatever. I'm not
saying that's Mark's story, but sometimes it is. And you still, nigga,
You'll get mad every now and then are like, let
me tell you what you shouldn't get confused. And I
think that's the part what he was focusing on, Andrews,
that you were talking about. The why I heard Mark
almost zone in on the sucker shit remark. He was like,

(55:00):
you ain't gonna call me sucker too many more times,
And it's because he's constantly having that experience on the podcast,
which is why that's my concern for his mental health.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Now.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Mark is mature and older and had an angry outburst,
but also checked himself. I was like, wait a minute,
let's I'll calm down to try to reel it back in.
But there are a lot of kids who don't have
the tools to emotionally do that at school, and they're
the ones who end up taking the gun to school.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
They're the ones who I agree.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
With you one hundred percent on this all really being
about a conversation of inadequacy, and the truth is is
that it was inadequacy on both sides than you can
there's some that because yeah, yes, go right ahead.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
No, because I was gonna say one of the things
we have not brought to the forefront is the fact
that y'all do realize. Mark called this nigga dumb.

Speaker 6 (55:50):
I did not hear that.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
How did you?

Speaker 4 (55:52):
He said?

Speaker 1 (55:53):
He said, I'm using words that are tricky to you.

Speaker 7 (56:00):
He responded to say, you're using them tricky words and
he said, I'm not, you know not, come on tip that.

Speaker 6 (56:06):
I disagree.

Speaker 7 (56:07):
And this is why I don't have conversations with with
with people like that, because to me, that people like
him because you, because Mark made him feel small, because
so fragile, because well this will we disagree.

Speaker 6 (56:22):
I've Mark made him feel small.

Speaker 7 (56:24):
And when he said you use those tricky words, and
Mark said, I don't use tricky words. I'm using words
that are tricky to you, I actually agree with that.
I don't have to like again if my ministry like,
I applaud anybody who goes into spaces and says, yes,
I can. You are the person I'm seeking out the
flips of the world are the people I want to engage.

Speaker 6 (56:45):
I applaud it. I don't look down on that. I
don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Speaker 7 (56:48):
I'm saying. I know because I'm gonna respond how Mark did.
Don't try to belittle me because I'm using the word
you don't understand. Don't try to put a put down
to me because I'm talking about something that might be
a bit over your head.

Speaker 6 (57:00):
So I did not hear Mark call him dumb.

Speaker 7 (57:02):
I heard Mark saying, no, don't try to say something
to me because I'm using a word you don't understand.
Use your curiosity and say, Mark, can you better explain
your point? You all talk about things all the time.
Angela and I have breakfast in New York with our
boil off Onso. They're both attorneys, and so they were
saying things that I didn't follow. I didn't understand, and
Angela was saying and stuff like well, i'd have to

(57:24):
pro howk in and up yup because discovery. I didn't
get that. I wasn't sitting there like I mean, y'all
all using them tricky words like I'm here too. I'm like,
what is that mean exactly?

Speaker 8 (57:33):
You know?

Speaker 4 (57:33):
I mean, was I not?

Speaker 2 (57:35):
But t if you're a wire different, you're wired different.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
And I think what the three of us, I don't
want to speak for the boys.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
I'll let them do it themselves.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
But the three of us may have heard an implication
of dumb if somebody said that, well, I mean, that's
still dumb, like whether he said it directly or was implied.
If somebody said back to me, I'm like, I don't
know what y'all talk about, and they'd be like, well,
you don't know because you slow, that's not calling me dumb.

Speaker 6 (57:58):
But he didn't say that.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
I know, But I'm trying to give you an analogy.
No debater, you know, she not debated, y'all.

Speaker 7 (58:04):
I wanted at some point we're gonna talk tell that
conversation because I think we're people probably agree with Angela
when we talk about it.

Speaker 6 (58:10):
But anyway, well, I didn't want to say.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
This, but it would be go ahead, Butkari, because we
would be really good, we get to yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
No, because I'm gonna let y'all have this reparation conversation
on the west coast. We don't know what those are
in South Carolina. But I when I when I said
the conversation was layered, I saw two people get heated
in a conversation. I saw, you know, they're going back
and forth about something you're doing. I saw Mark call
him dumb. I saw the guy respond is if somebody
just called him dumb. I saw a conversation get out

(58:39):
of hand. But the thing that you got to point
out that Angela hit on was something that our brother
Marco my Hill should get credit for, which is that
he had the emotional intelligence to see a conversation get
out of hand at the end of that clip and
said let me sit down, let me back away. And
Angela highlighted something that I do not want to go unnoticed.
And I'm to be over here. You know, going to

(59:02):
be a black man whisperer all the time, but when
the point comes up, I will say this that there
are a lot of our young boys who do not
and cannot because they don't have the tools display the
level of emotional intelligence that Mark got and Mark showed,
and sometimes they're going to have these discussions and debates

(59:23):
at you know, sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, and
instead of being expelled from school, which becomes cyclical and
kicked out of school, if they're able to say, wait
a minute, let me cool down, let cooler heads prevail.
I think that is also a lesson that we can
take for Mark Lamont Hill, even if he didn't want
to be in that space, because sometimes people get us

(59:44):
out of character, and sometimes black folks got to get
out of character, and so you know, I think being
able to pull yourself back in sometimes and breathe. I
give Mark full props for that.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Well, speaking of pulling, the governor of CA California does
not think that we should have reparations, and I think
that is this is a continuation of a Booker T.
Washington concept of pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.
We don't have no boots for in So somehow that
got a little confused. We are going to talk now

(01:00:19):
about him vetoing some measures and if you can't tell,
I am trying to pull what those measures are exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:00:26):
There was one, Angela, No.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
I got it there there was There was one that
I want to point out to interestingly, as there is
this onslaught of attacks on higher education, one of the
bills was a post secondary education admissions preference which would
have been for descendants of the enslaved. What I think
is fascinating here is this is Assembly Bill seven who

(01:00:50):
was introduced.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
It was introduced by Isaac Bryan.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
What's fascinating about this is there's this attack, this violent
attack almost on universities all over the country. They think
that this bill have violated Proposition two nine. That's what
I talked about at the top of this show. Then
there's the California Dream for all people. This would have
also benefited a descendants of enslaved people. That also was vetoed.

(01:01:13):
That was AB fifty seven. Assembly Bill fifty seven. Assembly
Bill sixty two would have had the Civil Rights Department
deal with racially motivated imminent domain, which we know is
a big issue in California, but also all over this country,
issues like airs property as well have come up, and
of course folks lose in property for property tax debt

(01:01:36):
has been a major issue that also was vetoed. Then
there was Assembly Bill seven forty two that were for
the Department of Consumer Affairs, the licensing would be preferential
for anyone who was a descendant of an enslaved person.
And lastly Assembly Bill seven sixty six, this would have
provided strategic plans for diversity, equity and inclusion for state

(01:01:58):
agencies and departments. Gavin Newsome saw it fit to veto
not one, not two, not three, not four, but five
bills that would have provided some benefit to enslaved people
of descendants of people who were enslaved. And I think
what is mind blowing about this is what he agreed

(01:02:20):
to was a study. We know over and over again
that folks are put into position to review. And maybe
it's because this textbook thing that people have been bandoned
textbooks long before they were off the shelves, they wouldn't
even look at them to deal with guilt. So now
Gavin Newsom, who has found time to engage with white Republicans,

(01:02:44):
especially those who support and lift up white racist ideology
saw fit to veto five bills that would have provided
some type of restorative or reparative justice for folks who
are descendants of enslaved people.

Speaker 6 (01:03:00):
So I'll just the.

Speaker 7 (01:03:01):
Best a little bit of clarity and then I don't
have to lay in on it. But the bill that
he did sign was authorizing six million dollars for California
State University to study how to confirm an individual status
as a descendant of an enslaved person. And for context
out if you've been following on the reparations issue in California,

(01:03:22):
a few years ago, the state legislature.

Speaker 6 (01:03:23):
Did approve.

Speaker 7 (01:03:26):
A similar bill of reparations bill which also caused a
lot of controversy because one people began to question the
history of slavery and how many people were enslaved in California,
And of course there were enslaved people in California, and
California certainly benefit from the institution of slavery, as did
every state in America too. It became quite a debate
because there was controversy over if you were a descendant

(01:03:53):
of an enslaved person here in America. And so the
ahead of the Black Caucus at the time, who had
authored this bill was out and about trying to defend that.
They were saying, yes, you have to be a descendant
of an enslaved person here in America. So when you
think about people, maybe you know your parents migrated from

(01:04:14):
the Caribbean, which also benefit from the slave trade. They
were saying, if your mama gotta be it happens to
be Jamaican, or your grandma was Jamaican, then you do
not qualify for these bills. So the reparations issue in
California has been a huge deal. This also isn't unlike
what we've seen in Congress. Angela could probably say more
about this on what Congress from Mishila Jackson Lee. Correct

(01:04:35):
me if I'm wrong, angel I think I have this
rite I'm pulling from memory. Congress from Mishila Jackson Lee
was also a big advocate on just a study, and
if I am correct, that study was also never a
Congress kept saying no, we won't even approve a bill
to study what reparations would look like. And there have
been similar measures all across the country, even including in Maryland.

(01:04:57):
Our friend friend of the Shelle Governor Wes Moore, who
also vetoed a reparations bill. So that's the context, and
I'm not sure that we'll ever see reparations in this
country at the state or a federal level, to be honest.
I think the other thing that's important here is he
did approve for measures. All of them had to do
with how you file or receive a civil rights complaint,

(01:05:19):
how dollars are being spent in post secondary education. There
have been four bills that he approved since August. All
of them have to do with study or the ways
in which civil rights complaints are decided. And sadly, and
maybe this was on purpose, I'm willing to say at
this point the way this guy moves it could be
on purpose. He knows that there are federal dollars that

(01:05:40):
would have to help to determine whether or not the
Department of Education, for example, in California, can even go
through and have the actual funding necessary to address said claims.
The other thing that we have to just be clear
about is some of the state funding that would go
to CSU, which is where one of the bills also

(01:06:01):
and impacts California State University, also federal dollars. So the
moment they do something that is in the crosshairs of
the federal government. They will likely lose federal funding. We've
already seen that happen. So the bills that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
He approved, I think all of them are contingent in
some way at least or at least can put them
in the crosshairs of losing federal funding.

Speaker 7 (01:06:20):
How do you compare his vetail to that of Governor
Wes Moore, because they both essentially I mean, yeah, anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Yeah, Wes Moore was it was a study. He said
that they had done enough studies. I tend to agree.
I just would have liked to see him establish an
implementation task force to move beyond the study part. But yeah,
these are not studies. These were implementation bills.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
They need vegoed. He approved a study. Yeah, I mean, I.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Love Wes, and so I've actually given Wes this criticism
to his face and spoke to him about it. The
first thing Wes should have done, I believe, in my opinion,
is if you're going to veto a study, you put
you couple that veto with a package full of equity
proposals to move the state forward. That's whoever gave him
advice to veto that because then he ended up doing

(01:07:03):
something which I'm going to show the similarities between what
West did and Governor Newsom did. Governor Newsom and West
both tried to triangulate, which is something Bill Clinton made
extremely popular. It's kind of going against your base, rising above,
you know, having this belief that you're able to kind

(01:07:26):
of rise above the fray on issues that are contentious
such as this with some thought that is maybe beyond
both Democrat and Republican thought processes. Right, It's like a
triangulation strategy. And many times when that happens, four folk,
brown folk, black folk are left behind. The second thing
that Governor Newsom's having to deal with now is he's
having to explain himself. And I think that Andrew can
tell you the basic tenets of politics. If you're explaining,

(01:07:48):
you're losing. So now he has to go out on
the road and tell people why he did this, and
tell me, you know, what have you done for this
person or what have you done for that person. In
Wes's case, when you talked to him about it, he said,
let me tell you what we done for black people.
And then he began to explain and have to rattle
off and do all of those things. And if you're
ever in a position where you have to do that,
you're losing. I mean, there's a larger conversation about whether

(01:08:09):
or not you will get reparations. I believe all four
of us are four reparations of some shape form of fashion.
The question is what do they look like? Right, and
how do we get there? But I think Gavin Newsom
just displayed to you that he is I mean, I
don't think it's a knot, but he's very calculating. And
in this calculation that he made the people that lose

(01:08:32):
or people that look like us.

Speaker 4 (01:08:34):
Yeah, you know, I was just going to appreciate that
helping us to recall triangulation. And it is a strategy
that sits at the feet of the foot of Bill Clinton.
He did it on welfare reform, where he made black
women the ire of everybody's existence. It happened on Crime
and Justice and the hiring of one hundred thousand new

(01:08:55):
police officers to hit American streets, and we know what
the foil of that was. And I think what's happening
now is democrats, certain democrats are deciding that it is
an imperative in the democratic presidential primary, meaning it is
a must have in the primary to have a Democrat
who is willing to strike hard against the Democratic base

(01:09:19):
in some form or another in order to win this
movable middle of the electorate out there who will be
kinder to them, who may give them their votes if
they can show that they have the courage to strike
out against a part of its base, and similar as
it was in the early nineteen nineties, ninety two and

(01:09:40):
ninety four and ninety six, black people are going to
be at the intersection of this striking out reparations is
I think just one form that we're going to see
this triangulation take place. I think it's going to happen
quite frankly on a number of our issues. And what
they're going to try to communicate to voters is that, yes,
I believe in the Democratic Coalition, but I'm willing to

(01:10:03):
tell them hard truths too. I'm willing to go and
look them directly in the face and tell them what's
good for them and what's not good for them, and
what's bad for their people, and that I'm not always
going to be on their side, but I want all
their votes, and I think we have to be really
suspicious of this tactic. I think we have to call
the tactic out when we see it. I don't think

(01:10:24):
it's worth waiting. I don't think we got to wait
our way through the presidential primary process to know that
this is a key part or some folks are making
this a key part of their strategy for winning the
Democratic nomination. Whether Gavin Newsom believes this thing or not
is a little concern to me. Whether the governor of

(01:10:44):
Maryland believed what he was specially at the time, is
a little concern for me. I think the calculation has
been made that you have to show that you're willing
to on the Democratic side. By the way, I'm not
even saying this is for the replicants, because I don't
believe this is a strategy on their side, But on
the Democratic side, you have to be willing to strike
out against a key element of your base, I eat
black people, in order to show that you have the

(01:11:05):
bona feeds to compete and to win the presidency and
the twenty twenty what is it twenty eight cycle? And
I just think when we see this thing where its head,
we have to call it for what it is. We
have to make a demand and then see if they're
willing to then recapitulate back to our demand. And so far,
somebody has determined that it's a winning strategy to take

(01:11:28):
on reparations and to sideline this issue for black folks
and be willing to do it in our face. And
we got to be watchful of it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
You gotta one of the things in your litany of
things about Bill Clinton that I thought you were going
to go to that I want the view is to
remember some of them old enough to remember if you
not google it. Sis a Soldier was another moment that
was quite similar to that She was a foil that litany.
But also and also listen, I love Wes. I hope
he runs for president of the United States. But if

(01:11:56):
we cannot be critical of people who look like us
doing the same thing, I can't hold Gavin Newsom accountable.
I already have enough reasons to dislike Gavin Newsom because
he is the most handsome person and the smartest person
in the room. Always all you have to do is
ask him, right. But I do think that that lack
of self awareness shone through in the politics of the day.

(01:12:19):
He employs the hug of black woman thing which I hate,
which is like every time he goes to a place,
he finds an old black woman and he hugs it
for the camera, and that's like the front page of
the Florence newspaper or whatever. So there are a lot
of nuances I dislike, but the triangulation that we're seeing
and it just it put me in that mind frame.
It's like whenever you go through a period of triangulation

(01:12:39):
with your elected officials. I mean, Barack Obama did some
of it. We'ress for office. It wasn't to that ext
Black folk, black folk, poor people are in a cross
hairs in that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
Order, one and the same in many instances.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Okay, well all right, if you feel complete, oh car.

Speaker 7 (01:13:01):
Because I'm excited to get to calls to action because
I have a good call to action right on the
other side of this break, we'll get into calls to action.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
There is no Native lamppod show without.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
Who cares about truth?

Speaker 9 (01:13:19):
When the last morning seen it?

Speaker 6 (01:13:23):
Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:13:23):
My call to action this week, I'm thrilled is for
a friend and someone I really look up to, and
that's doctor Sharon Malone. She is a doctor gynecologist and
she just launches the podcast as we called the Second Opinion.
She is a part of the Michelle Obama crew. She's
one of Michelle Obama's best friends. And you may have
seen her on Missus Obama's podcast, or you may have
seen her on Oprah. But I'm thrilled because I had

(01:13:47):
her on my show when I had the show at MSNBC,
and how that happened. I was literally walking in city Center.
You guys are familiar with city Center, and she came
up to me and she was like, you know, you're
in perimenopause.

Speaker 6 (01:13:58):
And I'm like, oh, hello, doctor Sharon L.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Now are you?

Speaker 7 (01:14:01):
And I've been thrilled to be able to text her
all of my questions, and for women on our audience,
if you're in your thirties and up, you know each decade,
our body goes through changes as we age, and so
I've been able to text her all of my questions
everything I'm going through. Angela and I go to Ken
Blackwell's conference and she always hosts a session there where

(01:14:22):
it's literally just grown women Speak, which is what her
book is called. And so I'm thrilled that she's launching
this podcast, so now all of you can listen to
her and hopefully. I don't know what the profile will be,
but she'll take a fewer questions, I hope, but I've
asked her more than one personal question. So please check
out the Second Opinion podcast. I think it will be

(01:14:43):
just on YouTube, and I know I plan on being
a guest on there, and I don't know if you
boys will, but maybe Angela or somebody. It'll probably mostly
be women, I imagine guests on the show. So that's
my call to action. Check out doctor Malone.

Speaker 5 (01:14:56):
Oh.

Speaker 7 (01:14:56):
She's also the wife of a former Attorney General, Air Colder,
speaking of voting rights.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Amazing, Yes, amazing, Andrew.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
Yeah, I'm going to take this listener question as part
of my day. Can we get to question native Land?

Speaker 5 (01:15:12):
So grateful for y'all, especially happy to see Tiffany cross
Land in a good place. They used to follow her
on MSNBC, as well as Joy Reid. I no longer
watch MSNBC since they ditched so many journalists of color
Katie Fang, Mediissan. But that's not my question. My question

(01:15:32):
concerns the no Kings protests past and present. I am
part of the ninety two percent. My mother was an
activist in this civil rights era, so resistance is in
my DNA, and I wonder as far as the no

(01:15:52):
Kings protests, should we be involved, should we be doing
more as a community, should we be doing more, and
what that more might look like. And I'm wondering what
your thoughts are on this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
Thanks.

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
I'll welcome quick feedback from each of you, but I'll
just say from my two cents, we don't have to
make it too terribly complicated. The the the enemy has
made him so very very clear on the other side here,
and I just think we have to be whatever your
mental personal health capacity can bear, can stand.

Speaker 3 (01:16:27):
We have to cover the zone.

Speaker 4 (01:16:29):
We have to be everywhere, anywhere, all the time when possible,
to push back and defend for ourselves. They've they've thrown
the road map out. They they are flooding the zone,
and they want to keep us dizzy, so dizzy that
we stay unengaged and uninvolved. And I just think if
you find something that speaks to you and that your heart,

(01:16:49):
mind and spirit is okay to give that you give
of your time, your energy or effort to fight back
against against this current formation of the enemy. I don't
know if you all have deep thoughts on.

Speaker 6 (01:17:05):
Keep going to love. That's all I want to say.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Yes, we're going to keep going with calls to action.

Speaker 3 (01:17:10):
Bakari, Yeah, I mean my call action is around de'angelo
and the black men in particular who listen to the show.
There a lot of us. Make sure you're getting your
check ups, go to the doctor, listen to your body,
Listen to your wife, your girlfriend. They're with you every day.
You know, they know when things aren't going right. You know,
if you if you still ain't getting your morning wood

(01:17:31):
in the morning or something like that. Make sure that
your your heart is pumping the way it should, and
make sure your blood is flowing the way it should,
and go see the doctor. Don't wait until your emergency room.
And I tried to go and get my and do
a colonoscopy and all those other things, and they told
me I was too young, and so I was like,

(01:17:52):
I'll pay out of pocket, you know, let me just
let me just get I want the whole work up,
head from the root to the tutor, as we say
in South Carolina. But I encourage everybody to go out
there and listen to your body, get checked up. To
black men, all of us for that matter, know somebody
know another young black man who died too early. DiAngelo

(01:18:13):
is another example of that. Again, rest in peace, condolences
to his family.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
Thank you so much, Bakari. Mine is simple.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
I want you all to pay attention to what's happening
this sixtieth anniversary of the Voting Rights Act. We are
hanging on by a thread. Andrew and I interviewed with
Janay Nelson right on the other side of her oral
arguments at the Supreme Court, and I also want you
all to really go back and listen to those oral arguments.
Clarence Thomas basically indicates that he desires for Section two

(01:18:44):
to also be gutted out of the Voting Rights Act.
So please go back and listen to what Clarence is
versus Katanji because there is a difference. And on that
helpful note, I would to encourage you all to remember
that all skin folk ain't kim folk. As always, we
want to remind everyone to leave us a review and
subscribe to Native lamppod. We're available on all podcasts, platforms
and YouTube. If you're looking for more shows like ours,

(01:19:07):
check out the other shows on our reasent Choice Media network.
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don't forget to follow us too on social media and
subscribe to our text or email list on Native lampod
dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
Y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
We also have substack now, so check us out there
make sure you subscribe. We are Angela Rye, Tiffany Cross,
Andrew Gillup and Bacari Sellers. Welcome home, y'all, there are
three hundred and eighty three days until midterm elections.

Speaker 9 (01:19:38):
Welcome home to the Native Landing on the podcast based
Tessa for Greatness sixteen minutes.

Speaker 8 (01:19:43):
It's so hit, not too.

Speaker 9 (01:19:45):
Long for the great shift, high level combo politics in
a way that you could taste it then digest it.
Politics touches you even if you.

Speaker 8 (01:19:52):
Don't touch it. So get invested.

Speaker 10 (01:19:54):
Cross the t's and.

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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Do WE need to have a talk about BLACK Intellectualism?