Government Showdown and Target Shutdown

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Lampod is a production in partnership with Resent Choice
Media and iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome home, y'all. This is episode seventy of Native Lampod.
I am your host, Angela. Right, this is your host
Andrew Gilliman. This is your host Tiffany Cross. We are
thrilled to be yes, all right, what's up? We are
thrilled to be with y'all today. We have a lot
to get into. What do y'all want to talk about today?

Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm excited a topic. This is Angela's topic that she chose,
but I'm super excited to talk about it. Angela had
the opportunity to go down to Selma for the sixtieth
commemoration of Bloody Sunday, which is, of course, when black
folks cross the Edmund Pettis Bridge to fight for voting rights,
and so angel was on ground and wanted to talk
about what has changed since Selma and I'm salivating at

(00:51):
the opportunity to get into that.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
I love that. I love that. Well, ladies, I wanted
to just bring up while it may be on this
top because the sixty letters at the federal government Department
of Education civil rights divisions sent to college and the university,
really cracking down on protests on college campuses and essentially
saying that these sixty institutions that are now under federal

(01:15):
investigation need to do better to protect Jewish students. And
I just want to explore a little bit at what
costs how this differentiates between how the Civil Rights Act
has been used previously in its application to make universities
of a welcoming environment. And would just love, love love
to dialogue with you all about where we could potentially

(01:38):
see this go when we think about DEI and other
efforts by the federal government to basically squash it out
of any governmental institution.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
Add it, thanks, Andrew.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I want to talk a little bit about this pending
government shut down and this continuing resolution which is essentially
a budget stopgap measure that passed the House.

Speaker 5 (01:58):
Before we recorded.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
It's being considered right now in the Senate as we record,
and we'll talk about what are congressional democrats getting wrong
about the urgency of the moment with the stop got
measures the backdrop. And of course we're going to get
in the target fast because that's what black folks want
to talk about.

Speaker 5 (02:15):
Everywhere right now. So welcome home, y'all. We're going to
dive into the show.

Speaker 6 (02:18):
Welcome home, Hi, Native Lampard. My name is Rachel. I
live in the Bronx, and I'm just coming to you
with a pretty important question to me right now, which
is in regard to boycotts. Currently, there have been a
lot of boycotts of various corporations, are calls to boycott

(02:39):
various corporations, and I just want to understand how we
do that effectively without hurting the folks that we don't
want to hurt. In this very integrated economy, I think
we are in a very different economic space than we
were in the nineteen sixties. And while it's understandable that
we boycott some places, others are pretty wide reaching, have

(03:06):
multi cultural workforce, employ a lot of black and brown
people specifically, and lost in revenue may first hit them
before it hits the pockets of the large corporate owners
of these places that we definitely do want to hurt.

(03:30):
But how can we be more strategic about how we
go about these boy cass considering that integration of our
economy and that we don't want to hurt black and
brown people. And other folks who are working class.

Speaker 7 (03:45):
Power concedes nothing without a demand. Target feels our demand.
I want to thank you. Over one hundred and forty
thousand people are standing strong against the injustices practiced by Target.
We believe if we are spending twelve million dollars a day,
then you need to respect us. We absolutely believe if

(04:08):
Target is one of the largest employers of black people,
second only to the federal government, you need to honor us.
And so people by the thousands are pulling off and
not pulling into Target.

Speaker 8 (04:20):
Their stock has dropped by thirteen percent, lowering it by
twelve dollars a share. They've already lost over two billion
dollars in their value. I'm so thankful we're just getting
started and we ain't gonna let nobody.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Turn us around.

Speaker 8 (04:36):
I need you to sign up at targetfast dot org
right now.

Speaker 7 (04:40):
Because the movement is moving. We won't stop till we
get enough. Stay plugged in and.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Let me find out we ran a commercial. Jamal, We
love you for real, but I'm gonna tell you this
right now. You guys, I signed up on targetfast dot
org to support what they're doing, and I was floored
by some of the things that they listed the like,
the thoroughness of the demand, the thoroughness of the approach,
the ways in which they carefully and strategically, almost surgically

(05:09):
laid out what should be happening since last week Ash
Wednesday on the target fast for forty days. So I'm
eager to hear what you are. I have to say, clearly,
I like it. I want to hear what y'all think.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
I'd love it, you know. I just want to first say,
for our viewers to understand what Pastor Jamal Harris Bryan
is going through. There have been protesters outside his church
since he's been on the forefront of this fight and
very outspoken civil rights leader. Is not just a fast

(05:43):
that he's promoting, but he's actually, to Angelo's point, thinking
through long term strategy that I'm sure we'll be talking
about in the weeks to come on this show. The
last that he referenced the protesters who were in front
of his church, they were holding up signs talking about
free Derek Chauvin, who is, of course the police officer
who murdered George Floyd. So he really is putting himself

(06:09):
in harm's way leading this charge. So I just first
want to express my gratitude because that's what it takes, fearless,
bold leadership that we're not seeing in some of our
democratic institutions, that we are seeing in some of the
different sectors out here that promote us Black consumers have
reached a two trillion dollar buying power, that's according to Nielsen,

(06:30):
and we have to start thinking about how we want
to exercise that buying power. And I will say it's
really challenging, you know, because the target is not the
only place, But we have to start somewhere and build
momentum from from that. But my former employer, Paramount, who
is of course the parent company for v E, t
v H one and a bunch of other media outlets,

(06:50):
they are proactively reconsidering their DEI approach because of the
Trump administrations. Corporations are proactively capitulating to this administration. So
I do think that we have to start considering how
we want to exercise the buying power of two trillion
dollars in this country and hit them where it hurts.
And if you target white man's money, I just feel

(07:12):
like that's when you get attention.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
I feel that I feel that I want to go
specifically to this question of the market today and the
interrelatedness of industry and our economy is different today than
it was in the sixties. That is true and in truth,
and Reverend Bryant Bishop I like to call them mention

(07:37):
this on the offset that power sees nothing without a
demand and boycotts, especially in this time where we have
black folks who are vendors to target. The good news
is that most, if not all of them are able
to still direct sell you their product in addition to
having it on store aisles. But I think we have

(07:57):
to consider with this question of who we be hurting
and could we potentially be hurting one of us who
have worked hard gotten their brands on the shelves and
so on and so forth. And I would say one,
we do want to do everything we can not to
hurt those individuals, which is why going to them directly
and bind the products that you want from them is
the next best thing we can do if we can't

(08:18):
get it off of a shelf. But we have to
demonstrate a discipline to do that. But boycotts are about
the dignity and the strength of all of us, and
it prioritizes the dignity and strength and respect for our
community above what any one individual who may be benefactor

(08:39):
benefiting on the back end might get by way of
sales as a provider on a Target platform. So I
guess what I'm saying is is, while I love many
of the people who I know who are African American
black women mostly who are doing their biz with Target,
they've come up with their own set of demand and

(09:00):
expectations that they want from the company, and the best
thing we can do is demonstrate that we have their backs,
even within that corporation by saying, look, if you don't
pay attention to black money, black green dollars, then you
are missing a huge swath of the economic opportunity that

(09:20):
exists for this corporation, this brand, so on and so forth.
And to my colleagues and friends, point Tiffany that a
lot of folks are getting ahead of the government and
basically the corporations are redefining DEI or dismissing it summarily
without being asked necessarily by the government, basically trying to
curry favor. There are also organizations, entities, corporations who are

(09:43):
on the opposite side saying we're doubling down in our work.
We're not getting rid of this, we're not deprioritizing it.
And so I guess what I say is Target made
a choice here, as have other companies have made a choice,
and now is the consumer. It's important for us to
make a choice as well. And this is the last thing.

(10:03):
The Montgomery bus boycott, which I talked about on my
solo pod on Monday, was initially scheduled to be a
one day protest in Montgomery. When that day came November fifth,
and the city buses all across Montgomery were empty of
black riders, it shocked the system and white folks and
the city had no idea what was happening and what

(10:25):
was coming. Well, y'all, they felt so good at the
end of that day, they said, let's extend this thing further.
We got to keep it going until we bend them
toward our will. And three and eighty two days later,
the people won. So I'm just saying, these things take time,
but we can absolutely bend it toward our will.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
I have a question for Angela, because we know Melissa Butler,
friend of the show and friend of ours. She is
the CEO of the Lip Bar, and we all love
boss Lady her lipstick. She's also carried by Target, So
show Melissa some love. But again, I think it's important
to explain to people how we can keep this boycott

(11:07):
up but also support people like Melissa Butler and the
lip bar Like can we go to their websites? Also,
your friend I met her, but I don't remember her name,
but you had on this really cute outfit. I was like,
who is that? And I think Kilani? Is that her name?

Speaker 5 (11:21):
Klana Barfield?

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Kalana Barfield, who also has a line in Target. How
can we make sure? Because Andrew brought up a really
good point like do they have websites where we can
go directly to them? Like how are they protected?

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yes, Kolana was part of the Black Creators program that
was launched through what the Trump administration would now now
totally brand as a DEI component of Target's work. So
she was one of the creators and Sergio was one,
fey Noel was one. So Kalina doesn't have an ongoing
line with Target, although she's consulted, and I don't know

(11:54):
the status of that contract.

Speaker 5 (11:55):
I apologize that I know this questions coming. And Melissa,
you can.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Definitely purchase her products at the libbar dot com and
she's encouraged people to do as such. So I know
that phase two is starting with this target fast dot org.
I encourage people to go to the website one so
you could see the many things that Jamal Bryant has
put together with a number of colleagues and acquaintances of ours,

(12:19):
including to Mika Mallory, including Nina Turner and others. But
the faith community is deepening down into this. I think
that it's important for us to understand that we can
always support our brands, and we know how to find
things like concert tickets. We know how to find things
like our movie tickets and things that where we want
to go see and participate, we figure out a way
to get there. So, if you want to continue to

(12:41):
support these brands, and you want to show American corporations
or international corporations for that matter, if they're going down
the same troubled road as the Trump administration what you're about,
support your own and I think that there's never a
better time than now to.

Speaker 5 (12:56):
Do just that.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Next after the break, we'll be talking about a looming
government shutdown and whether or not the Dems can hold
their nose and vote for the right thing. So with that,
speaking of shutting things down, stock markets and all, you

(13:20):
want to get into government shutdown potentially the continual revolution.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
Give us, give us the word, madam from the hill.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, let's go to a question on this first and
we'll jump right into it.

Speaker 9 (13:33):
Hey, what's up Native Lands? Craig again in Brooklyn, Angela,
Tiff Andrew Will. Hope you guys are doing well. I've
just been thinking about a lot about the chaos that
has been going on lately in government. It feels very
apocalyptic to me. But that's a whole other conversation. But
my question is this.

Speaker 10 (13:54):
When I think about the Republican Party, I think about
a party that is very strategic, very effective in their messaging,
but they're major flaws or courses that they lie. When
I think about the Democratic Party, I see a party
that is very piss poor in their messaging, despite what

(14:17):
their good intentions may be. So we got one side
that's lying but is good at it, and another side
that is really bad at their messaging and gets in
the way of whatever they want to do. So my
question is this, what the midterm election is coming up,

(14:37):
How can we as a community educate our voters or
potential voters out there without using big ginormous concepts like
constitutional crisis or threat to democracy or oligarchy and all
those different things.

Speaker 5 (14:58):
What are some ways that we can them where they are?

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, the question in summation, thank you number one for
sending that in, is why are democrats so bad and messaging?
Maybe it's because the truth is harder to package with
a nice little bow. I don't really know, but I
don't think it's fair to say all Democrats are ineffective
in their messaging. Historically, in recent history, at least aoc

(15:24):
Alexandria Ocasio Cortez has broken through, and so has Jasmine Crockett,
among many others. The backdrop I wanted to talk about
this in is HR nineteen sixty eight.

Speaker 5 (15:35):
Imagine that name, which.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Was the continuing resolution that the House of Representatives passed,
and now the Senate is considering that if it passes,
would prevent arguably a government shut down, when in actuality,
I believe that the government has been shut down since
Donald Trump was worn in.

Speaker 5 (15:53):
That is my argument that from.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
A good place, a good faith perspective, that the government
has been shut down once this man gave the keys
to this South African front Elon Musk who has been
going rogue and slashing with his chainsaw across government agencies
without regard for how it would impact the American people,
the taxpayers that fund these varying entities and programs. So

(16:17):
to me, it's been shut down, and I think the
Democrats and Republicans of good conscience wherever they may be,
had an obligation to vote against that bill. But instead
of doing that, most of the Democratic Caucus held together
under Hakem.

Speaker 5 (16:32):
Jeffrey's leadership. But there was one, because.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
There's always one named represented Jared Golden from Maine, who
voted against the bill, despite almost ten percent of Maine
being on something called main Care. A lot of people
when they hear Medicaid and Medicaid being cut and watching
Congressman Green standing up with a cane and saying, hey,

(16:54):
you don't have a mandate to cut Medicaid, people don't
know that a lot of them are on Medicaid. Like
in Washington State, it's called Apple Care. In Maine, it's
called main Care. So there is almost ten percent of
the state that is on main Care. Like, were you
thinking about these people when you voted for this legislation

(17:16):
not to mention a billion dollars and cuts to the
district of Columbia where many of them have their second homes,
where many of their staff live. Like you're cutting like necessary,
certain necessary services for people, all to prove a point
and to say to Donald Trump and to Elon Musk,
I'm just gonna keep giving you this rubber stamp.

Speaker 5 (17:38):
And I think that's the messaging.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
There was one Republican, Thomas Massey, who voted against the
measure and stood with Democrats. So essentially, Jared Golden is
a net net.

Speaker 5 (17:48):
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
But I do want to raise three other votes in
recent history that are questionable from Jered Golden. I think
it gives our audience every reason to call him to
question where his allegiance lies. So he voted with Republicans
to overturn President Biden's student loan debt cancelation plan.

Speaker 5 (18:09):
This was in May twenty twenty three.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
He voted against a package of gun control measures in
June of twenty twenty two, including raising the minimum age
for purchasing a semiotic rifle from eighteen to twenty one,
and the last one, I want to call you all's
attention because I know it's near and dear to the
three of us is the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act.

(18:32):
Jared Golden was one of only two Democrats to vote
against this bill, expressing reservations about qualified immunity for law
enforcement officers, the same law enforcement officers who no longer
have to be submitted through a database through the Department
of Justice because Donald Trump overturned that too.

Speaker 5 (18:49):
So congratulations, Jared Golden.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
You just gave Elon Musk not only the keys to
Tesla and SpaceX, but the key to the government with
all of your constituents data and guarantee almost guaranteeing cuts
to medicate across the board or main Care.

Speaker 5 (19:04):
That's all I got to say about that. A little
bit of a rant, but hopefully it was clear.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
Well, Angela, can I just say real quick on the
main Care the main Care piece, because you've exhibited main
Care is just one example of how this program gets
rebranded once it's in the states these governors. Because medicaid
is a partnership between both the federal government and the
state government. Under Obamacare, it raised the federal government contribution

(19:30):
for Medicaid in these states to ninety percent the states
then had to kick in the other ten percent to
cover the cost. But the reason why the American people
may not be very clear about them being beneficiaries of
Medicaid dollars for healthcare is because the branding. And this
kind of gets set the question, which is, you know,

(19:51):
Republicans rebrand or they brand and they do it well,
but they lie on while they're doing it, and then
we don't rebrand, and we may be earnest at heart,
but in effectual in the outcome. And I think we
have been slow to lean into the credit that the
party deserves for what it does. I know, we hated

(20:12):
on Donald Trump for slowing down that first batch of checks,
stimulus checks that went out to the American people thanks
to the Democrats under the leadership of Nancy Pelosi and
the Democratic Caucus delivering that package under Trumps signature. But
he said, Noah, hold up, hold them, hold up. I'm
gonna put my name on every check. And yes, I

(20:33):
realize it's gonna cause delays, but I'm gonna put my
name there anyway. All that to say is I do
agree with the question of this question, which is or
the point made in the question, which is we're just
not that good at it. And I often ask myself
Angela and Tiffany, like, is it that the people who
we put in front of the cameras aren't savvy enough?
Are they not dropping the lines like we need them

(20:54):
to in order for them to land? Or is it
that the constituency that Democrats have to talk to is
so vast and different. It's easy to be on point
with your people when you're pretty much a monolith when
everybody pretty much is the same color, practically the same class,
and are at least united around the same ideals, which

(21:16):
is largely keep black and brown and women folks off
of whatever it is that we have. It's not that,
but I'm trying to simplify here, whereas for Democrats it's
more complicated. But are we given an excuse when I
say something like it's just more complicated because the people
are more complicated, tif Or is there a way to
say easy or simplify things to people and help them

(21:37):
understand and grasp what's that consequence even if they don't
understand the hook line and letter of the law.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
I mean, I appreciate that perspective, Andrew, because honestly, I
think That's why so many people are kind of checked
out because so often it's a very inside the beltweigh
conversation where you don't understand what the shutdown means, you
don't know what a continuing result means, you don't understand
what role this senator has and what this means. So

(22:04):
I just want to take a click second and explain
what this all means, because people ask that all the time.
People DM me, even people who I'm like close with
who are like intelligent people. So it's nothing wrong if
you don't know it, but like we have to take
time to explain these things. Essentially, Congress is supposed to
fund four hundred and thirty eight government agencies, but that

(22:24):
it happens before October one. October first is when the
fiscal year begins for the federal government. At issue are
a lot of things that you can imagine given the
Trump administration. That goes to support Angelo's point that the
government has been shut down when Congress cannot because Congress
controls the budget. When Congress cannot agree on those things,
well that's when you have conflict. And so once the

(22:45):
government is shut down, people are essential employees will still
report to work, but they don't get paid. There was
a law that passed that made sure that now employees
will get paid retroactively, but basic services go away. I
don't think a lot of people understand. We talked about
Social Security and Medicare, but even like health inspections from

(23:08):
the EPA, air traffic controllers still work, but they don't
get paid. Subtext to that, again, I want to keep
Puncry and Angelo's point about the government's been shut down.
Air traffic controllers still report to work, they don't get paid.
Yet we also know that Elon Musk has been laying
off people left and right at all these government agencies,
which are pretty essential to what we do. Pass shutdowns

(23:31):
have also delayed tax refunds for people. We are in
tax season right now. It's put on hold loans to
small businesses, homeowners, prevented patients from enrolling in different programs.
At the NIH, which is the National Institute of Health,
they have clinical trials happening. So this is a really
big deal when something like this happens. And I think,

(23:53):
because I see this happening across the newspapers, across cable news,
and I think, if we just took a minute to
playing to people what this is, how it's going to
impact you. I think the more informed people will be,
the angrier they will get, and the more they will
have their hands the deep in what's happening here, and
they will start blowing up the offices of their members

(24:13):
and getting just a lot more outraged at their tax
dollars being allocated to things that they don't support, and
then the government completely just not functioning. Now. I think
also people can get very it's immune to it because
you hear, oh a government shutdown, the government shutdown, and
it rarely happens, but I remember, you know, the times

(24:34):
in our lifetime when it has happened in our adult life,
and how it does, cause it has a real Exactly
when Knnie B came out there, I love Carti B's
response to this, and she was like, what's going on?
In two weeks but her clip went viral because she
put it in such basic terms for people that was
very digestible for people to get. So it is a

(24:55):
big deal should the government shut down. Even I get
a little confused about out what's the process? You know, Okay,
what passed in the House, and now I was in the Senate,
like you know, what when are we going to know?
But I even myself like I can't keep up with
every process and every part of the process. So it's
just frustrating to me. So I know for the people
listening and you're like, it's kind of over my head,

(25:15):
It's over my head too. I have to like literally
google sometimes what is a continuing resolution or what is
the role of a continuing resolution in a government shutdown?
Or once you know the budget passes in the House,
what is the role of the Senate? So I just
think we have to take a second and fill in
the gaps where the actual journalists fail repeatedly retely.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, and I mean beyond the journalists, we have an
obligation to to teach people what we know. So I
say in shorter terms because I tried to make it
clear based on the even the votes who defected in
the House side one voted with the Democrats, one voted
with the Republicans. I explained Jared Golden's voting record that's
also been troubling. And encourage people yesterday on my solo

(26:00):
pod to make sure that you call the House representatives
and urge them at that time to vote against this
continuing resolution. Now it's made its way to the Senate.
If the Senate passes the exact same bill, then it
just goes to Donald Trump to be signed into law.
If they pass a different bill, then they have to
go through a process called conference where they have to
negotiate on the terms and get on the same page.

(26:22):
Or the Senate could just send their bill back to
the House to be considered.

Speaker 5 (26:26):
The thing that should be people should.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Be aware of now is the Senate needs at least
eight Democrats to vote for the CR for the continuing
Resolution for this temporary stop gap measure so that the
government will stay funded. If you don't think it's shut
down again, I argue that it's been shut down. But
they needs eight Democratic senators. Right now, it looks like

(26:48):
John Fetterman is the only one, although Richard Blumenthal is
saying that he's a likely no. He's likely to vote
against it. Call them and pressure them, HAKEM. Jeffrey should
not be getting more pressure than Chuck Schumer when he
mostly kept the party in line. There was one defector
tell Chuck Schumer that he better not lose eight. That's
what this is about, and it shouldn't just be on

(27:09):
these things it's about all the things that are impacting us.
At some point, budgets became partisan despite the fact that
they fund taxpayers no matter who they voted for. These
are fundamental government services. These are not things that are partisan.
Like I know what they're trying to tell you that
all the cuts that they're making, all these various government

(27:32):
agencies with Elon mush chainsaw are because there are waste.

Speaker 5 (27:35):
Fraud an abuse.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
The real waste for an abuse are all the contracting dollars
that he's extracting out of the government instead of funding
basic services that your neighbors need. So hopefully that is
common sense enough as we move on to.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
Another TAE thing on this budget thing, and that's simply
to say the Republicans, I want to say this specifically
about the Republicans have consistently driven us to the edge
of national embarrassment, economic catastrophe for federal workers and sending markets,
but more important people into feeling like we're always in

(28:13):
this state of emergency when it comes to our federal budget.
The most powerful, wealthiest, strongest nation in all the world,
and all I want to say about it is is
that it would be one thing if these folks were
doing this in advance of having run up our debt.
The problem is is that they run up the debt first,
and the debt ceiling comes around, and the federal budget,
which we haven't adopted in a number of years under

(28:35):
a Republican they because of continuing resolutions. They then decide,
you know what, in the spirit of Donald Trump, We're
just not going to pay our bills. How about this,
The most powerful nation in the world will walk away
from its obligation many money it's already spent to create
a stunt in Washington, DC and make people think like
they care about national debt, the budget and all that

(28:57):
other stuff. They don't. They simply hate government and want
to see it shut down.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
I have a question, Andrew, what is it? Because there
I didn't read this book, but there was a lot
of writing about that taxes don't actually fund the government,
but I didn't read it, so it could have been
like a tongue in cheek point. But also when people
say national debt and you just said, well, we don't
pay our bills money that we've already spent, like specifically,

(29:22):
what is that? Like, what is our national debt and
what is the money that they've already spent.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
There's a calculator I'm going to I'm just gonna pull
up the calculator, but I'm going to say it very very.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
And say where that website is, Andrew, so people have
it and they can.

Speaker 5 (29:37):
Live it up.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
Well, there is, of course, we know what I was
going to use was the United States Department of Treasury.
But unfortunately primary sources now have to be questioned because
you've got Trump's people being mandated to go.

Speaker 5 (29:52):
Through scrub pages down. Absolutely, that's already shut down.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
The only is your point is made. But okay, so
right now we're at what is the national that thirty
six point twenty two trillion dollars. That's the amount of
money that the United States government has spent and has
borrowed this money. Let me make clear here, the national

(30:20):
debt means it's in debt to somebody, and who it's
in debt to are a bunch of foreign creditors and
buy up China, I would say, largely the oil and
gas tycoons across the planets, absolutely, right. So the government
goes out spends this money and then they make absolutely

(30:45):
no effort to pay down this bill, y'all. They only
crow about it because it's a nice talking point, but
the bill continues to accumulate with no plan for how
to lower this Why is this number important? This number
is important because you can imagine what the interest rate
is on thirty six point two two trillion dollars, an

(31:05):
interest rate that has to be paid every month we spent.
I think that the interest rate of this government might
be what the second or third largest expense of the
government is the money it has to pay for what
it's borrowed for what it has already spent. And I
just want to say, inside of democratic and Republican administrations,
we've had national debt issues, but the only time they've

(31:26):
ever been balanced in the history of the country have
been under democratic presidents. Don't get it twisted. They talk
a good game. On the other side, however, they drive
us to the brink of a shutdown simply for theatrics
because they've already spent the money.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Well, I was asking because I just really quickly. I
actually Angelae can correct me if I'm wrong. There was
that video. Somebody dropped it in our group chat of
there was a young man saying, I don't blame Elon
Musk for you know, the doze in firing all these
people because government agencies are getting tax breaks for hiring

(32:05):
right for hiring debate. It's so ridiculous. And I mean,
I am not a tax expert or I'm not an
expert on how the government is funded, but I know
basic common sense that know, your taxes are paying to
fund the government. Government agency agencies are not paying taxes,
so obviously they're not getting tax breaks to hire people.

(32:27):
But the fact that people saw that and that there
are people out there who think that shows how ignorant.
And I know what, y'all don't like it what I
say this, but I just say that some dumb people
out there. I would have to say that is a
dumb person because even when he was confronted with facts,
he very arrogantly just said, I don't think that's true.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Well that's what and unfortunately, tip that's kind of where
we've gone as a country. People continuously are selecting the
news based off its alignment with their with their beliefs.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
We can't agree on basic facts anymore.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
There are none, And this is what the assault is
on the other side is basically, if you remove the facts,
if you remove the people who are supposed to argue
the facts. If you make all that irrelevant and truth
has no base and no relevance in the conversation, then
you can sell a people anything you want because there's
no primary source to correct them. It's a shame and
a sham. But mostly y'all this issue around the debt

(33:23):
and cutting these jobs. It's very easy I understand for
every day Americans to say I don't like government because
it hasn't done such and such for me.

Speaker 6 (33:30):
Lately.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
Most people's interaction with the government is largely around some
regulatory thing they have to do, a license that they
have to complete for if you want to own a gun,
you got to submit applications on and so forth. So
a lot of us don't like it because it requires
us to do something. But there are days in and
days out, moments in, moments out, hours in, hours out,
minutes moments seconds in where the grid that gets electric

(33:54):
utility to every one of us, including all three of
us that are on this pod right now, until it
goes out. It happens without our effort because other people
in the government are putting in the effort to make
it work. So you don't have to question whether or
not it's coming on when you flip the switch. And
I'm just that's how it's supposed to work. We shouldn't
know always, so what the question that's doing?

Speaker 5 (34:14):
All right?

Speaker 1 (34:14):
The question was also asked, essentially, how is the government funded?
And I'm going to refer people to Taxpolicycenter dot org,
where it says that the individual income tax has been
the largest single source of federal revenue since nineteen forty four,
and in twenty twenty two it comprised fifty four percent

(34:35):
of total revenues. On this chart that is at the
top of Tax Policycenter dot org.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
And what are the sources of revenue for the federal government?

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Individual income tax by far, corporate income tax, which essentially
we indirectly fund because we're paying money into these corporations
for goods and services. Only nine percent of corporate income tax,
but yet they dominate with the policies that come out
of the House and the executive branch, Social insurance, payroll tax.

Speaker 5 (35:02):
I have a company that pays payroll tax.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
That's still my damn money, excise tax, same thing, and
then there's a bucket for other Now when you go
on to their next page. If people are like, well,
that's the faz What about state and local I'm so
glad you asked so for it's.

Speaker 5 (35:18):
The same thing. We are overwhelmingly.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Responsible at the state and local level with our income
tax dollars contributing. And so there's a whole chart breakdown.
I won't go to each thing, but it's tax receipts,
other receipts, that's still us paying. The money come from somewhere,
contributions to social insurance programs, again the same thing, and
then inter governmental transfers. So the money that goes from
the state to the FEDES or vice versa, the money

(35:42):
that goes to local to state to FEDES or vice.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
Versa, we are still paying for it.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
So cut the exist in a state where you have
no state income tax, I'm in one of those states
where there is no state income tax. Here, you're getting
here and walloped even worse. Why way worse sales tax?

Speaker 5 (35:57):
Ask me about.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
It is a regressive tax in almost every program that
they want to fund under Republican control. In these states
where they say you'll pay no state income tax, largely
they're hitting you over the head because every one of you,
whether you are a US citizen, a non US citizen.
So long as you go into a store, a gas station,
or elsewhere and buy something, you're paying for it. That's

(36:19):
why the statement that immigrants and others don't pay taxes.
And by the way, I think half of the American
people don't necessarily pay federal income tax. They get a refund,
but about half the country doesn't pay the federal income tax.
That doesn't mean they're not paying taxes. They're paying taxes
every day on nearly everything. They're just not getting a
credit for having done it.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
No, they still will be paying taxes in their check
even if they get a refund. They don't get refunded
all of the tax payments that they've made in payroll.

Speaker 5 (36:49):
No, no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (36:49):
I'm simply saying, even if you are a worker who
does not work on the books, or you work in
an industry where it's more cash driven cas slaton and
so you're not paying a federal tax in the equivalent way,
those people are still paying taxes, and they're largely through
the consumer taxes that that Republicans love to push on

(37:13):
to us. They'll say, we're going to lower the tax
exemption on your home, We're going to lower state income taxes,
but we're going to increase sales taxes and that's how
they get us on the back end.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
I just I want to complain for a second because,
first of all, thank you both, because that's informative to me.
But this is also happening at the time. This week,
Linda McMahon, the WWE specialist turned education secretary, they have

(37:45):
made several steps to shut down the Department of Education.
So I think this speaks to what we're talking about.
I think what Angela just said definitely informs why people
are outraged about tax cuts and who gets tax cuts
versus who is still overwhelmingly paying to fund the government.
So while the government is shutting down. Someone wrote in
one of the comments, I read all the comments, y'all,

(38:07):
so thank you all for commenting. Even if it's a
bad comment, I still read them. I like to know
how you guys are receiving the show. But somebody said,
you know, Tiffany's always talking about the media. I think
she's still bitter, rightfully so, but I think she's still better.
Yes I am. I'm here to confirm. Yes, I am
very very bitter, not only for my show, but just
for the landscape of journalism. So I was listening to

(38:27):
The Daily New York Times, and it's a popular podcast.
But this is why I think Native laandpod is so important.
On the Daily, the reporter who covers education, Dana Goldstein.
So they're talking about shutting down the Department of Education,
which our tax dollars fund, and they said, one of
the roles of the Department of Education is when people

(38:49):
are complaining that not enough black or brown students are
being taught properly, or they're not enrolled in gifted programs.
The Department of Education is part of the federal government
who will on the ground locally and investigate this. And
then she says, which is inconvenient. Now I'm listening to this,

(39:10):
and my head wants to explode, because who gives a
shit if it's inconvenient for the local school district. Now,
she is an impartial reporter, and this is not meant
to attack her. I don't know anything about her except
that she covers education for The Times. But my point
is they center white people at everything they do and

(39:30):
everything they're talking about her perspective, which she is shaping
for millions of people who continue to read the garbage
coverage of the political coverage of The Times, which I
do every day, but they have great coverage elsewhere. She's
centering white folks, and she's saying, so, yes, this is inconvenient. Well,
I'd imagine it's pretty goddamn inconvenient for the parents of
black and brown children who have been sidelined, who have

(39:52):
their gifted children placed in remedial classes because someone says
they're not smart enough, or they're not paying attention in class,
and not given the grace benefit understanding cultural competency to
meet them where they are to help educate them. When
you get rid of the Department of Education, you are
sentencing a whole class of children to be sidelined and

(40:13):
creating an entire different society when they go enter the
workforce ten, fifteen, twenty years from now. So it's very
frustrating to see our government fall while also seeing the
people who are supposed to be on the front lines
covering this capitulate and make every excuse and continue to
center white folks. So I'm concerned about all of these

(40:35):
things happening, and I think it feeds your point, Andrew,
about how the government is funded, and your point Angela,
that this government is shut down is not that new
to us, because the government has been shut down since
January twentieth of this year.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
Well, the worst offense y'all, in my opinion, is that
the Conservatives are not being honest with us about why
they want to shut down education. Yes, they were being
honest with the American people around why they want to
shut down the federal Department of Education. It is because
they blame it inherently for the enforcement of Brown v.

(41:12):
Board of Education, and the fact that it was largely
the federal government who passed laws and instituted protections that
carried out the integration of the Little Rock nine and
in Arkansas, any of the southern states that wanted to
defect from federal law and create a two tiered system,

(41:34):
one of white people first class and anybody else, but
very specifically black people to be treated as less than
citizens and even less than human. They blamed the US
Department of Education for encroaching on states rights, which was
basically a state's right to keep black folks in subpar

(41:56):
education centers where their books come from third, fourth, fifth
generation hand me downs from white schools. That's what they
are after. They want to return to the pre Brown V.
Board of Education era of plusy B V. Ferguson, and
we ain't going back.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Y'all and privatized education. They crivatize education. It's a multi
billion dollar business.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
And they're already been subsidized right now.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
So I want to talk about Salem soon when we
get into that.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Well, first, I think, since we're on Department of Education, Andrew,
you had something you wanted to raise in this space.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
I know we've been hearing a lot about education shut down,
but what about the shakedown they have going on over there?
More on the other side of this break.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Just really quickly.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
Some of y'all may have seen this week that there
was news about the federal government sending UH Department of
Civil Rights sending out letters to sixty institutions colleges, universities
of all stripe because they say these institutions may be
in violation of the Civil Rights Act for their failure
to protect against pro Palestinian pro Hamas demonstrations on college

(43:19):
campuses that occurred in this country and are still occurring
wherein They are suggesting or arguing that any of those
protests created a hostile learning environment for Jewish students and
so being a protest that wasn't pro Palestine, that wasn't
pro Israeli were therefore antisemitic. What really stresses me out

(43:45):
about this position, y'all, is the government's ability here to
very quietly, but to me very loudly step on our
First Amendment rights as free speech by essentially deciding that dissent,
meaning to have a different opinion about an issue, automatically

(44:06):
means that you are against a whole group of people
because of their faith and also of their birth. Meaning
if you're Jewish and you don't necessarily side on the
same side as the Israeli state the government that your

(44:27):
opposition must be antisemitic, And y'all, I just I'm afraid
of where this line can be drawn, because if you're
a Black Lives Matter protester, could they then say that
you're anti white and therefore those protests and protesters should be,
I don't know, penalized differently because they are at a

(44:48):
different political position than you are. And I think that
I think it's gross, but I think we are coming
very very close to something here as it relates to
our First Amendment rights that are I believe going to
be trampled on already. They have been, but increasingly by
states and by the federal government. And if we lose

(45:08):
that protection, y'all, where they can round us up and
arrest us free will because we have a different political
belief we're further gone there.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
We have they reached that level.

Speaker 5 (45:17):
We are already there.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Just this week or this week, this past weekend, I
should say my mood Khalil, a legal permanent resident, a
Green card holder, was kidnapped by the state. ICE came
in and removed him from his Columbia paid for apartment.
This man is a student, he is assumed to be father.
His wife is eight months pregnant. They took him into custody.

(45:43):
They're trying to revoke his green card. They will not
hand him give him his freedom unless they are ordered
by a court, and then we'll see if they even
follow court orders. But agents basically told him that he
was detained because his visa had been revoked. Specifically, what
you're talking about, Andrew, because they're trying to say that
his demonstrations, his protests are pro HAMAS and they're leading

(46:07):
to activities that are aligned with HAMAS, which of course
the United States considers a designated terrorist organization. This terrifies
me the most, the fact that any one of us
could come in on this podcast and say something, and
that somebody can come in and take us into custody,
snatch our liberty and take us away. We're not waiting

(46:28):
to get there. We are there right now. Then I
don't even know what to do about it.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
The thing is the reason why I thought it was
important for us to illuminate this and I think we
have to keep doing it, is because our rights get
taken away with our eyes wide open. It's this, it's this,
it's I don't even want to call it a slow
process because it doesn't even doesn't even feel slow, y'all.

Speaker 5 (46:52):
It's everyday.

Speaker 4 (46:54):
It feels like the ripping away of what was hard fought, hard,
struggled hard to come by, and now we're about to
let it slip away so easily, like guess on us.
Democracies are insured by its people, by the people, not
by the government itself, but by the people, and we're

(47:15):
past the line. You're absolutely right. I just think it's
important that we continue to lift a light. And I
know the next question that folks have is, then, well,
what do we do about it? We have to raise
our voices. We cannot go quietly into the good night.
It doesn't work for us. It just doesn't.

Speaker 5 (47:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Well, uh, speaking of going backwards and things being taken away,
taken away with our eyes wide open, some of us
really felt strongly about being in Selma this past weekend,
the sixtieth commemoration of Bloody Sunday. And I can tell
you all on the fiftieth being there and feeling so

(47:56):
proud of progress and going back ten years later and
feeling concerned that I need to now stand on this
hollow ground to get the energy, the inspiration, the strength
to endure in this moment is really sobering. It was
so powerful to be with so many people. Our sister

(48:17):
and friend Joy Reid was awarded at the dinner that
they hold on the eve of Bloody Sunday. We have
panel discussions, really robust meeting, strategy sessions, but it just
still feels so disappointing that in the blink of an
eye and the matter of a couple of months, so

(48:37):
much has been rolled back because people ignored the signs
and they ignored the ways in which our rights were
snatched from us over the last several years, including what
the Supreme Court did in Shelby County Shelby County versus
Holder in twenty thirteen, right on the other side of
President Obama winning two terms is the first the nation's

(48:58):
first black president.

Speaker 5 (49:00):
And so the question I really have for y'all is.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
How far have we really come? And why is progress
so dog gone fragile?

Speaker 5 (49:08):
Are going to be snatched?

Speaker 1 (49:10):
It just feels like it can be yanked from us.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Well, just as for our viewers know Shelby Beholder is
when they gut it section five of the Voting Rights Act,
which essentially said that you have to have permission from
the federal government before making any changes to your local
voting laws. And that existed because there was so much
persistent voter suppression happening all across the country. And you

(49:34):
saw once that happened, there have been an increase in
laws that suppressed the vote. I think last I check,
which has been years, probably over a year, there may
have been maybe over seventy local ballot initiatives to roll
back voting rights, but.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Three hundred pieces of legislation and states throughout the country.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
That they pass that they passed.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Hundred introduced in state legislatures. You were saying local. So
I was just saying it on the state.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Thank you for a correct me state. And I don't
know how many passed, but it might be close to
that number. Over three hundred of thus introduced. Yeah, we're
so over y'all.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
They've also used the gutting of Section five to jerry
Mander and to steal yes seats congressional seats that had
diverse representation. In Florida, they took two of the four
black access seats, which means a district design where an
African American candidate could run and have the potential to

(50:36):
win if folks voted along racial lines necessarily, which is
not necessarily how it goes. Nonetheless, this governor must say,
stole two of them. And guess who's there now? White candidates,
Republican male candidates that have taken these seats. And it's
happened all across the country thanks to what they handed
down to us and shall.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
Be and greatly dilutes our political power. One thing I
want to point out, I want to hear more just
about your how it felt being there, Angela, But before
I asked that, I just I want to point out
what happened on that bridge I think so often the

(51:15):
history is sanitized because the narrators don't often look like us,
and they control the narrative. But it wasn't like you know,
Congressman John Lewis was. He wasn't a congressman then, but
he was walking past and somebody pushed him down and
that was it. I mean, he had his skull fractured.
It was not just men, not that it reduces it

(51:36):
that it was just our men. Even our men being
violently assaulted is horrific. But they also violently assaulted women, children,
pregnant women across that bridge. It was a violent, bloody
melee of non violent protesters. Why this was so significant

(51:56):
is because this was the first time. Now imagine this
is before social so a lot of people don't even
know what's happening along the Bible Belt in the country,
but really all over the country when it came to
voting rights, and the violence was so so yes, it
was so horrific that ABC at the time, the network,

(52:19):
actually interrupted its telecast. They were showing a judgment at
Nuremberg at the time, and they interrupted it to show
what was happening in Salma, Alabama. Once the rest of
the country saw what was happening. Then there were people,
including allies, including folks who didn't look like us, who said, well,
wait a set, we can't tolerate that, we can't stand
for that, and that's when chain started to happen. Now

(52:40):
that we have these devices and you know, we're looking
at monkeys on a unicycle and you know, for me
looking at you know, puppies getting their vaccination shots, we're
not necessarily paying attention to those things. So I don't
know how to corral they attention of folks. But that
was a turning point in history. That revolution was televised
and that's what led to change. So I don't know

(53:00):
that we have come that far. And i'll tell you, Angela, Andrew,
I feel really defeated. I feel bad because last week
on the podcast, I was saying I don't know if
I'm hopeful yet, and people are like, what are you expectivity?
So I don't want to spread my blanketed bereavement around
what's at my despair, around what's happening. I think, you know,
if you don't feel hopeful, please tune into this podcast,

(53:22):
because Andrew, I'm like, you're fighting your hopeful Angela. You
are eighteen hours every day around the clock doing something
to help organize a movement. I'm doing other things, which
I'll talk about later, but it is depressing to see
because it feels like in this time of being a
flat circle, it is a cyclical problem. And I don't

(53:43):
know why progress is so fragile, but I just know
that not only is progress fragile, this very young democracy
is and it takes participation and awareness to preserve it.
And I don't know how we get to that point
because we're asking people to care about every thing and
they end up caring about nothing.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
That's why I like Tiffany, your your your your, lay
up to Angela around the feeling, because I am also
likewise curious at a moment like this where you were
able to assemble with a lot of folks in our
community who frankly sit at the position where people expect
them to do something all the time to protect us.

(54:23):
Tell me how what is being in Selma sixty years
on that hollow ground mean for an organizing leader like
yourself and and and folks that you were you were
with to gird them up in this moment because there
is a lot of despair. I don't think any of
us should refuse that that exists. The question is is
once we confront the despair, then what do we do

(54:44):
with it? And I'm just wondering what kind of fuel,
if any, do the leaders get right so that they
can keep leading?

Speaker 3 (54:54):
And how did it feel to your spirit to be there?

Speaker 5 (54:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (54:59):
And I meant to addressed this earlier, so sorry if
I didn't, But yes, it felt good to be there.
It felt necessary. It provided as again a sobering opportunity
to reflect on how far we've come and how quickly
progress can be rolled back. I think beyond the politics
of who's gonna be in the picture in the front,

(55:21):
even seeing the Reverend Jackson's commitment to be there, you know,
with Parkinson's in a wheelchair, and among others, you know,
Reverend Sharpton, Congressome and waters how came Jeffries, Derrick Johnson
like and Latasha Brown who was rallying folks singing in

(55:45):
a bullhorn because something happened in the sound system. You know,
it was like it was reminding us of you know,
when there's not a way, we make one. So I
think it's necessary. I hope that black folks in this
time will continue to convene, to gather strategy.

Speaker 5 (56:00):
Ain't gonna happen out of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Hope isn't gonna be given to you with no action,
like it requires the moment requires us to sacrificially come
together to find a better way.

Speaker 5 (56:11):
It just does. And I think that will.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Continue to be in despair, will continue to be fearful,
will continue to be scrambling about what to do so
long as we don't prioritize what our next steps must be.
There is the fearce urgency of now, and I wish
that it wasn't, but that is where we are, and
I think we'll be able to better fight it once
we accept what is well.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Can I ask, do you feel despair because you're doing
these things? You're in the fight? Do you ever feel despair?
Do you feel like? I mean, because you when you
ask that question, you sound exhausted, you know, you sound like,
why is our progress so fragile? And I feel that,
Like I really do feel that, And I think so

(56:53):
you Latasha Brow all the other people who are in
this fight. Are you saying I like, I don't feel
that despair because I'm actively fighting something every day? Or yeah,
I feel that despair too, but I know if I
keep moving then that's the only way to progress.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Well, let me let me turn the question to you, Tiff.
Feeling despair in the feeling of despair that you have, Yeah,
how do you think you get out of that?

Speaker 6 (57:18):
Like?

Speaker 5 (57:18):
What is the way out of despair?

Speaker 3 (57:21):
I don't know. I'm trying to figure that out. And
you know, I'm not apathetic, like I'm not sitting around
doing nothing, but sometimes I do look at the things
that are happening, and I wonder, how does that stop?
What's happening right now? I feel like I'm in the
middle of the storm watching all this happen, and I'm like,
I don't even know how to stop it. But there's

(57:42):
something That's why I think there is something to being hopeful,
you know, Like what did it mean to be in Selma?
Like how is going to Selma stopping something? How is
standing on the floor of Congress saying and we shall
overcome stopping something. I don't want to dismiss those things,
because black folks our hope, Like we need that hope
to go on. I just don't know what the tangible

(58:04):
thing is that we're stopping, you know, I think.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
That My question is, and maybe I'm probably asking it poorly,
but I would love to know, even from our audience,
if you are feeling despair but you're not apathetic, what
are you doing? What are you actively doing to not
feel the despair? Like if you're feeling sad, what are
like about something else? Let's say it's not even about
the government. But if you're feeling sadness, how do you

(58:29):
combat that sadness? If you're feeling hopeless? How do you
comback that hopelessness? If you're feeling despair, how do you
combat that despair? Or do you just say I'm gonna
sit in until it passes. I mean that is a way.
But and then if you're saying, well, I'm not apathetic,
so then there's some action that you're taking to not
sit in apathy.

Speaker 5 (58:48):
What is that action?

Speaker 3 (58:49):
Well, I'll say what I can. I don't want to
say a lot about it. But one thing for me
that I'm caught up in the middle end is writing
bearing witness to this and writing and I'll say more
about that later, but I don't have the ability to
disconnect from it. Like I'm mired in it. It can weigh
me down and when I'm not in it. I feel lighter,
I feel better, but trying to keep up with everything,

(59:10):
and I write every day from ten am to about
seven pm. There are other things that I am finding
my way to participate in which I don't. I want
to protect and preserve some of the work that's happening.
But you know, there are some of us who are

(59:31):
involved in conversations happening, and I'm looking for that thing
within those groups of well, what is the thing that
I can attach to where I'm doing something to stop this?
And I haven't quite found that thing.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
Is it possible that the work, the cathartic and even
weighing work of being the teller of the time is
a contribution?

Speaker 3 (59:57):
Yes, I mean what we do here, but I I
mean to Angela's point, though, I think we have to
do more. Whatever we're doing, we have to do more
of it. Sure, I just don't know that doing like
what I'm not good at is swinging at the wind.
You know what I'm not good at is like I'm
gonna just go a bunch of actions and you know,
scramble myself in a tizzy. Like No, I do want
to be still and purposeful. You know, if I'm going

(01:00:19):
to lend my time and resources in my very limited
time and time deficit of actual you know, work that
pays me. Then what what is it? And sometimes I
do feel like, in the chaos of it all, I wonder, well,
what did this actually stop? What did it move? But
I don't I don't. I hate saying that because I
feel like, if that's what you're doing, and you know,
maybe something's gonna stop. Well somebody was like, what was

(01:00:41):
it gonna mean that we crossed the bridge? All we
doing is walk across the bridge, you know, and that
was a big moment to change things. So I don't
want to. I don't want this to I don't want
my despair to be infectious. I just yeah, I don't know.
Whatever I'm doing is not enough, you know, bearing witness
of things isn't enough. But that's just what i've you know.

(01:01:03):
And by the way, I'm not an organizer, I know
that much. It doesn't mean that I can't be supportive
to the organizers.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
You know you are you are an organizer because I've
been on the receiving end of your organizing work.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Is an organ I mean I would say she isn't organizer.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
She is as well. But this is what I think.
I think we often make the bar for entry to
damn high. Yep, you don't have to be an Angela Raie.
I love her and I'm thankful to God for our people. No,
I mean no, Yes, we need new ones, you need
acolytes and people who will replace you. But I just
think we spend a lot of energy in our community

(01:01:41):
knowing that we carry the weight of so much ship
waking up every day. Ha does James Baldwin put it?
You know, waking up as a black man. You know,
every big it's right, it's to be enraged. So that's
already a feat. But we don't have to make the bar.
You too, have to organize a twenty four our meeting

(01:02:03):
for the urgency of the moment, and by the way,
do it in forty eight hours from this point the
production needs to take place. You don't necessarily have to
be the person who's out there getting the most new
voter registration cars signed. Maybe you're the one who's actually
building the teams, training people so that they don't run
a foul of the law while they're in the process
of collecting voter registration cars. I only say this y'all.

(01:02:25):
I use an example, and by the way, I want
to invite people onto listening to my solo pods as
they released, because we're trying to demystify this question, the
big question of what do I do and how do
I start? If we make the start so big, there
are a lot of people who will check out before
they ever take a step forward. And I just think

(01:02:48):
we are all here. We're designed with our own respective
gifts and things that we can contribute. I've saved the saying,
and I think r J hates it when I said
you can't need an elephant in a hole or in
one bite that you can't say all because it's for me.
That's how I understand that I.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Who was requiring that of anybody. Our EP Lauren actually
has a question. Our EP Lauren has a question about this,
and I think that maybe hearing it from a lay
person that is also organizing, even neighbor and neighbor is important.
So let's hear Lauren Lauren's question on this.

Speaker 11 (01:03:24):
A Native lampod.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
It's your EP Lauren.

Speaker 11 (01:03:27):
Hey, Lauren, I'm coming with a question about organizing. Also,
I'm calling from Sunny Brooklyn. I think you like to
know that. I obviously listened to Andrew solo pod yesterday
and I'm so inspired and I take every I literally
took notes so i could share this with my group.
But I've done some of the things that you've talked about.
So a friend of mine after the election, started a
community group feeling despondent about the results and wanting to

(01:03:52):
do something. We gathered friends and neighbors and other parents,
and we have met like half a dozen times. You know,
we brain stormed issues that feel important to us, which
are all over the map, like super local, like safety
on our streets or like our schools, to climate and
repro writs, and you know, it gets really big. I'm

(01:04:13):
just sort of wondering. I've never done this before, and
as the leader of this, I just every time I
meet with our group, I love it and I feel
really good. But I'm also like it feels like I'm
weeding through a thicket. I'm like, is this the work?

Speaker 5 (01:04:26):
Is this what you're supposed to do?

Speaker 11 (01:04:28):
You just meet and talk and brainstorm, like nothing really
feels concrete. It's like we're kind of blindly taking one
step forward at a time. And I'm from a newly
sort of organizer to you all, like, is this what
you're supposed to do? Is there something more concrete.

Speaker 5 (01:04:46):
That we can do?

Speaker 11 (01:04:47):
Am I doing it wrong? I just love some advice
for this group that's trying to get off the ground
and find their footing. I don't know, just thank you so.

Speaker 5 (01:04:56):
Much for your leadership.

Speaker 11 (01:04:57):
Appreciate you guys, and love working with you.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
Bye, love, I love.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
I love that question.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
I think that what Lauren shared is so important because
I don't think that there's anybody throughout history that has
engaged in a movement that became significant that knew from
the outset like, oh, this is going to be the one.
Like I don't think Minister Farrakhan was like, I'm definitely
gonna get a million people. I know, I mus strive
for it. But what happens the only five people show up?

Speaker 5 (01:05:34):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
I don't think that on the March on Washington, they
knew it was going to be that. I don't even
think for the Women's March, despite a lot of its flaws.

Speaker 5 (01:05:42):
Knew that it was going to be that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
I think that you have to start somewhere and you
are flying blind the grace that we should be extending
to each other right now is we have never been
here before. We don't know what is going to work.
What we do know is that there has to be resistance.
We do know that there has to be a fight.
We do know that there has to be an opposition.

(01:06:03):
We do know that we got to stand on truth.
We do know that we have to protect the most vulnerable.
Maybe your role isn't every single one of those pieces,
but you take on your part. It is imperative that
we do something. You sitting by and watching what is happening, saying, oh, no,
where to start, it's gonna mean that we end up

(01:06:23):
with our asses handed to us.

Speaker 5 (01:06:25):
Like we gotta get in the game.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
My biggest frustration right now is there's so many people
that got smoked for everybody who's doing something.

Speaker 5 (01:06:33):
But when we turn around be like, well what you doing,
It's like, uh, you gotta start somewhere, you really really do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
And so I do think it's in the conversation, But
it's beyond the conversation to making a call to Congress.
It's beyond making a call to Congress to go pulling
on a government building door to see if you can
get into the door that you pay for. You know,
it really is figuring out how to protect your kids
at school, special needs kids who may be impacted by
this disease. These disastrous cuts to the Department of Education,

(01:07:03):
most of which now that we know that half the
employees have been told to go home and they can
come get their personal effects later, most of which has
not even been congressionally sanctioned. So the fight is in
the other two coequal branches of government. If you have
a lawsuit and you got standing suit, if you know
that you have some inrows with Congress, call them, make

(01:07:25):
a visit when you're at a fundraiser, let them know
what it really is.

Speaker 5 (01:07:28):
But you got to do something.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
I think every single day, if somebody takes one action,
we're a lot closer to a victory than without.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
I gotta be honest, I have not seen I've only
heard tangentially about the people having smoke for people who
are trying to do something. I have not seen that.
I'm not experiencing it. I know, and how I know
it is because in our chat sometimes that you know,
we'll talk about it. I do have to say, if
you are criticizing what other people are doing, then that

(01:07:56):
is a plan, like you have to you can't criticize
and not you know, be involved. But I like the
question that you posed with the audience, and it's something
that I would actually like to hear from the audience.
What did you say, Andrew? Like, basically, what are y'all doing?
If you feel despair? What are you doing about it?
Was that your question?

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Yeah, like, how do you how do you solve for despair?
How do you solve for feeling stuck in this moment?
How do you solve for that?

Speaker 5 (01:08:19):
What are you doing? The software?

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
And if you're like, hell, I don't know, y'all, tell
me listen to Andrew's organizing pod.

Speaker 5 (01:08:27):
He's doing. He's basically doing a.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Masterclass breakdown every other Monday to talk about these things.

Speaker 5 (01:08:34):
On the Instagram Live yesterday. On my solo pod.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Yesterday, talked about specifically just calling Congress. I think we
should call Congress and reach out to these offices. I
think we should do it on air to let people
know how it goes.

Speaker 5 (01:08:46):
When you recall, they have to answer, they owe you
an explanation.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
We should take that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
Yeah, but I also want to, as a local person,
say shout out Lauren on the local emphasis. She said,
we're talking about our neighborhood, our streets, our schools, our safety.
Is the work the convening part. Well, guess what if
your group decides that the work you all are doing

(01:09:13):
is that every day we are all weighed down by
the facts of life as they hit us, either from
the federal, the world, the global, or what's happening locally,
and so the best thing you can do to not
get stuck on stunned is to convene together and talk
through it. That way, as you all fan back out,
everybody is interacting in their space now with a different

(01:09:37):
recharged mindset. Maybe that recharge mindset puts them in contact
with people who are feeling despair and haven't had an
opportunity for hope, who now feel hope because they see
somebody who's just like them, who shares their beliefs and opinion,
who are as sad about what they see happening nationally
or in their state or in their local but they
have some joy in it, and they have some joy

(01:09:57):
in the work. If that is what the group decides,
and then yes, that is the work, Lauren. It doesn't
have to be too high minded or too low brow.
It has to, however, reflect what the community. The folks
you have pulled together believe is the reach, the objective,
the goal that you all want to see realized. Maybe

(01:10:21):
it is that y'all set a goal around voter registration
and your precinct or as a cohort, we're gonna you know,
we're gonna have five hundred new registered voters by the
time the Mitchron comes around, and not only that, we
will have invited every single one of them to one
of our sit downs. Every person we register, we use
as an extension to invite them into this setting for

(01:10:44):
every time we meet that they can become more conscious
minded about what they can do as individuals to help
your local area, your community, and obviously the nation. We
on the left, i think too often organize people exclusively
around electioneering, and we've left a lot of people on
the sidelines. I would love to see more work like

(01:11:05):
you're doing Laur, where people are organizing each other toward
getting to the beloved community, because then they gonna know
before you even tell them that if Trump takes away education,
these are going to be the residual impacts, and that's
why we have to wake up to it.

Speaker 5 (01:11:20):
And that's the thing too.

Speaker 4 (01:11:21):
Everyone doesn't interact with those issues the same way.

Speaker 5 (01:11:24):
That's the thing too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
We don't know how far he's going to go and
how people will be able to stop it. We've seen
a few successful instances.

Speaker 5 (01:11:36):
All right, y'all, So it's that time. It's time for
some action.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
We've debated whether or not action or inaction works better
in these times and how we fight back. So my
call to action is to remember you can always do something.
Shout out to our EP Lauren for submitting a question
today and all of you who submit questions every single week.
We are so grateful. But I will tell you never
ever ever give up. In the spirit of John Robert Lewis,

(01:12:01):
who did cross the Edmund Pettis Bridge, was bluddened and
buddy bloody for us to ensure that our voting rights
would always be protected and more broadly are civil rights.

Speaker 5 (01:12:11):
If what you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Got, I will stick with was your CTA because I'm
one of those people that suspended in the onslaught of
all these attacks, looking at it, wondering what do I do?
And so if I if I could do something, you
guys tell me if this is even realistic. I would
like to build some sort of infrastructure that immediately protects

(01:12:34):
our people to engage in harm reduction because I don't
know how to stop the onslaught. But I look at
the work of Fred Hampton, I look at the work
of the Black Panthers, and they had, like you know,
the free food program, They had a whole education system.
You know, that is something that feels right to me.
That is something I feel like I could latch onto.

(01:12:55):
I don't have the time, capacity or ability to lead it,
but I could certainly work in something like that. That's
just an idea, and I think ideas matter. So I
want to hear from you guys. Tell me what you
think I should be doing, what y'all are doing. If
you are feeling despair at Angela's point, answer her question
about how you move past that despair and any ideas

(01:13:16):
because ideas matter. So yeah, that's my my CTA. And
just thank you to Andrew for teaching us organizing every
other week, and to Angela for your tireless ever. I
don't know how you how you do it, but thank
you to you both for at least being in it.
And shout out to the people who do feel like me, like,

(01:13:36):
what what is any of.

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
This stopping like how you're not giving enough credit to yourself.
You're in it, friend, I know you will.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
I mean, I'm in it, and like writing about a
bearing witness to it, but I don't feel like I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (01:13:47):
If somebody will be able to one day read that
and take from it some action steps on how to
survive it. All of us are reflecting back on moments
that preceded us as inspiration, every one of us, and
so there's value you. There's big value well.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
I remember when we were in Miami at Kim Blackwell's conference,
shout out to him Blackwell, and we had a similar
question and Angela, you said that if you're tired, maybe
someone else is not tired in the same way that
you are, so collectively you can build that work. And
when we say grassroots, grassroots is just your neighbor, you
could be wealthy in doing grassroots if you're talking to

(01:14:22):
your neighbors about something that's grassroots. So I know there's
something I just I want to do something tangible. I
think the target thing also feels like it will. There's
a tangible result in that, and you give people hope
in that, and then you build on that hope and
go to the next thing. So I don't know that
I'm just suspended in it. I don't want to spread
by despair, but I want to hear from you Algy.

Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
Not spreading it. I think what we were doing is
we're normalizing the conversation so that we can move more
people past it. You know, it shouldn't be a roadblock
for us, right and my CTA is issued to us,
which is in these moments of dispair, I would like
to know who gives permission for the joy, who brings

(01:15:04):
the joy, who helps us experience There's not one of
us who could wake up every single day, day in
day out, just pushing the rock up the heel, because
at some point you get tired and you need somebody
else to tap in. Or we got to sleep in
shifts and somebody's on this time and somebody else is

(01:15:24):
on this time. But even that requires a space for
renewal and joy. And if I would say something as
an observation of what it's felt like since Trump is
there's been a lot of no joy for me because
unlike them, we don't bask in the destruction of our neighbors, friends,

(01:15:48):
church members, classmates, coworkers, and colleagues. That's not how we
get our thing off. It works for them, but not
for us. So I love for us to be intentional
about creating the permission structure for joy while we fight.

Speaker 5 (01:16:04):
I love you well with all of that. Thank you
all so much for tuning in today.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
This again us episode seventy of Native lamppod and just
one moment while I'll tell you how many days it's
too many days until midterm elections that hopefully we get
to see it's six hundred days remaining. And with that
we thank you all so much. Know that new episodes
do still drop every single Thursday and Friday is our

(01:16:32):
mini pods, solo pods our Monday and Tuesday.

Speaker 5 (01:16:36):
We guide y'all cover wall to wall.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
Except for Wednesdays when we record this here podcast. If
you need more, check out Politics and Off the Cup
the other shows on our recent Choice media network, and
don't forget to follow us on social media and subscribe
to our text or email lists on our website Native
landpod dot com. We are Angela Raie, Tiffany Cross, and
Andrew Gilli.

Speaker 4 (01:16:58):
Welcome home, Welcome everybody, Last Moran, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
For joining the Natives attention of with the info and
all of the latest rock gulum and cross connected to
the statements that you leave on our socials. Thank you,
sincerely for the patients reason for your choice is cleared,
so grateful it took the execute roads. Thank you for serve,
defend and protect the truth even in paste. For walking
home to all of the natives, We thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
Native Lampid is the production of iHeart Radio and partnership
with Reason Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.

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