May 2, 2025 • 25 mins
Hosts Tiffany Cross and Andrew Gillum ask: what do you think white folks think the meaning of movies like Sinners and Get Out is?
Beyond the box office smash hits, films made by Black and Brown creators have shaped the lives of our hosts–and countless folks across the globe. Our hosts recite some of their favorite scenes and get real heady as they celebrate a legacy of Black creativity in film. What makes a show or movie “transformative?”
Let us know what films and shows have transformed you! Submit a video comment, check out our tutorial video: www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/
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Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.
Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:
Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
Theme music created by Daniel Laurent.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Resent Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Well come, well come, well come, well come, well come.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We're here for this week's mini pod. I am your host,
Tiffany Krost, along with my co host Andrew Gillham.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I'll be honest with y'all.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We did not plan what we wanted to talk about,
but I was like, let's just say record, because I
always have things I want to talk to Andrew about.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Uh, they're always okay.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Well, the one thing I wanted to talk to you about,
to be honest, Andrew, is Sinners.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
But you have not seen it yet.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I have Ryan Coogler's you know I haven't. I have
raved in all the news about how much it's earned.
Oh my god, you know it's it's top slot debut
and all the hate. Help me you talk about the substance?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Can you please bring me to speed on why is
this so great? Why are I don't.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Want to spoil it? I think, and I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I don't want to talk about it a lot because
I want us to have a deeper conversation when you
once you've actually seen it, Because The symbolism and history
in this film is just beautiful and it's the movie
we need.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Right now for this moment.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
But I surmise that because a lot of the coverage
for the film, you guys, the opening weekend, it was,
you know, this film gross sixty five million, but Warner
Brothers paid X amount of dollars, so long, long way
before it's profitable. And what a strange way to frame
a successful movie, you know. And that wasn't the only one.
(01:26):
There was headline after headline that kind of downplayed its success,
that cautioned excitement around it.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
And I had not seen the film.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Once I saw the film, I said, ah, okay, now
I see they're like we did. I have all these
black folks going to watch this film, And because a
lot of the people who liked it who don't look
like us, I was looking like, I wonder what you're.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Getting out of the film?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
What did you When did you understand this film do
and mean? And it was I felt the same way
about get Out. I'm like, all these people who love
get Out, I'm like, when of the Kardashians saying, I
must they love get Out?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I'm like, we missed most precisely what did.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
The Kardashians love about get Out?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
You know? And it was kind of like that with Cinner.
So we'll have a deeper conversation around it. But I
think I think a good conversation we could have, if
you want, is what goes into black and brown creativity,
because when the things that I've seen happen, like Master
of None with Asiase I'm sorry, was one of the
best shows. I mean, it was just so well done.
(02:27):
That's how we came to know Lena Way. I mean,
it was just a really well done show, and it's like, yes,
that's what happens when executives get out the way and
just let brown people create. On some of our shows
that we've seen insecure, I would say, is a show
like that love Craft Country?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
My god, love Craft oh man?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
And why did that go away? Okay, struggling?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The second season of love Craft Country was going to
be called Supremacy. I'm so mad me And so the
reason why I've heard is HBO executives describe Misha Green
as different cult, which of course makes me like, anytime
you start describing us as difficult, I want to know
what exactly the situation was.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, I want to know what did they disagree with
you about? What did they say no?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And you know, Ryan Cougler with Centners, like he broke
the bank on these people, and you know, to me,
whatever he got paid, it wasn't enough. They're going to
more than make their money back on this film. But
it also just cast a wide net of influence over
creators when we support high quality work and the level
of detail that Ryan Cougler paid to this film. There's
(03:38):
a moment where you'll see Chinese characters who are Southern
Chinese folks living in Mississippi, and you know this Andrew that, yes,
that is a part of Southern culture in Louisiana. There's
a huge Vietnamese community, you know, after the railroads, and
you know kind of like how these populations came to
(03:58):
be and how they came to be shaped. Follow a
platform next next Shark on Instagram that gives api history.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
So I don't know. I say all that to say,
we're in a very unique moment in history where we
are side eyeing.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Other communities, you know, where it's like, I don't know,
you might have voted for this man, and I can't
really rock with you, like I gotta go insular and
only deal with black people, only talk to black people,
And I certainly feel the most comfort there. But I
just I know people within the ap PI community who
who fight against anti black sentiment, who fight against racism,
(04:33):
who are allies, like I have given them the title
of ally. They've earned it and I've given it to them.
I know people in the Latino community who also are
black folks. Y'all, there are there's Latino, there are black people,
and then there are black Latinos. There's a venn diagram
Latino own precisely in Dominica, in Port and everywhere there
(04:53):
are black you know, the the slave ships stopped everywhere
and some people, you know, you have Afro Colombian and who.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Was on that ship, by the way, looked different in
different places, and some places they were Asians who were
on uh those slave ships or under indentured servitude and
still treated and and employed on the slave labor. You
talked about, you know, the railroad and the building of that,
the connecting of the East and the West, and how
it is that you know, Asians occupied so much of
(05:22):
these rare places that you would find, you know, these
buckets of community on the creative piece, because I don't
think of myself as a creative and am certainly not
implied to to to to even think so. But I
I have been watching or watched rather and I don't
(05:42):
know which app it's on, but it interviewed all of
these black actors, first the men and then the women.
Oh god, if y'all have it, which which platform is that?
On that apple?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
We'll give us some money because we're given y'all whole
free commercial.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I just I just got to say, I was so
moved watch it and drawing the tears and other forms
of emotions as I listened to these a list black actors'
names that we would all know, you know, you know,
off the dome, and how they reflect on their experience
in an industry that wholly didn't value. And I say
(06:25):
didn't as if it's past tense. I think it's it's
still true, don't value, but certainly you know, in the
moments that they're reflecting on, it's clear didn't value. I
mean Angela Bassett and that Tina Turner biopic. I'm still
mad when I was reminded, you know, of the slight
of hand that that that she was handed at that
(06:48):
time for acknowledgment of the hard work that that's required
that our folks do. But I think, Tiff, in so
many ways, our creatives make it look so seamless, almost
so effortless, like you underappreciate the amount of energy, effort, concentration,
(07:10):
discipline that they had to exhibit to get that job done.
And study it's so underappreciated.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Like Viola Davis is a Juilliard graduate, and she talks
about studying at Juilliard and how, you know, having to
learn different dialects, you know, having to learn the British dialects,
having to learn Southern dialects, and it's like, well, why
didn't white people have to learn different African dialects? You know,
like why did we center whiteness in our craft? And
(07:39):
it's so true the way that that's centered in everything.
We were talking a bit this week on the podcast
about you know, cable news executives, you know, and and
still what is centered is white perspective, white life. You know,
even when you talk about evangelical so white is silent.
You know, you assume evangelicals are with Trump because you're
only thinking about the Billy Graham wing of evangelical in film,
(08:03):
you're only thinking about white perspective. You know that famous clip,
infamous clip of Tony Morrison being interviewed and the woman saying,
but you don't sent her white people in your books,
as if that is the starting point, you know, like
you're can we I have?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
And also when they in politics, before you leave those
examples and politics, when we say the real America, get
out and talk to real Americans and what people commentators
and analysts mean when they say the real America, what
black people are working blue collar jobs and are disaffected
in all parts of this land. Yet you got to
go to the heartland quote to meet real Americans. Yeah,
(08:45):
that they don't exist. Real Americans don't exist in cities.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah yeah, real Americans. That I'm so offended by that
entire notion. But that is like the thought process that
that's the defining thought process for so many people. But
I have a request one. I want you to see
Sinners so we can do a whole mini pie. But
Centers has me so inspired. I would like us to
(09:09):
rewatch Lovecraft Country.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
To rewatch I'm down there and watch it. I thought
it was I thought it was powerful, and I can't
I couldn't believe that the viewership if that were it
was so was so lackluster that it wouldn't It was
so beautifully done the acting girls.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
But there's a woman who also plays in Centers and
I don't know how to say her name, but she
is so strikingly beautiful. She's actually British and I don't
know where her country of origin is from, but she
was born in the UK, and I'm gonna look it
up because I want to give her her flowers.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I know her name, every everything I've seen her amazing.
If there were a talent who is who was underrated,
it would be her amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
And she loves you. Remember we ran into her at
tammeron Hall Show.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I know I'm a fan, but I'm a sincere fan
of her craft, of her Workie what you know, Jerny
Smilett another one who I.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Thought I love Craft Country and her sister is played
by woone Me Mosaku. I forgive me if that's not
how you say her name, but woon me Osaku, who
got the Chicago accent very like, she did it very well.
Uh in Center, she got that Mississippi Southern actvert. I mean,
she's just an amazing actions but strikingly beautiful. I just
can't stop looking at this woman. I think she's I
(10:43):
just I think we're gonna see more of her. But
I would like us, Yeah, I would like us to
rewise The love Craft Country because it was one of
the most beautiful pieces of television I've ever seen, and
it really tapped into my imagination.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Is shaped how I saw.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Things the Name Yourself episode that Sensor and I was
new Ellis. I don't want to give it away if
you all haven't watched its years old, though, I feel
like we should be able to talk about spoilers, but
I would like you all to watch.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It with Yeah, dig in, dig in.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So it is so good, Jonathan Major.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
It's mind shifting. Yeah, that's what creatives should do. Like
we always talk about the imagination and how we reach
a whole nother level of like the imaginative and the reimagining.
They did that for us in reset a context and
a set of experiences historically based in some cases otherwise
you know, in some instances derivatives of It's powerful. And
(11:35):
I think that they're the ones who put peel the
scales off of our eyes and allow us to see
things more beautifully if you you know, to imagine things
more beautifully. And I thank them for that.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Just we are we offer our gratitude for what they
do on the screen, what they bring to their craft
a seriousness. When you see BTS footage of Ryan Coogler
on all of his films, from Fruit Station Uh to
Creed to Black Panther to Sinners, he is involved at
(12:07):
the molecular level, you know, like he is that his
hands are stop everything he is, from the cinematography to
the type of film they shoot on to the actors
working closely with the actors and the storyboard, and he
puts such thought into it. And I think anytime that
you're devoting that level of detail to your craft, that
(12:31):
we owe you our attention. You know, I'm not at
the theater like this on my phone. I'm not you know,
chopping onions in the background. At home, I sit and
honor the work of the folks who poured their heart
into it, and so I don't like going.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
To the theater.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Stand Barry Jenkins to be similar, you know, a Miami Boy,
but and and and then you know the Lion King
and and even in illustrations and playful ways, still incorporating
the richness of us. Like if you get the subtext,
you know, they don't make it hard for you to
be able to access it. But if you if you're
(13:08):
willing to get the subtext, it just it makes your
spine stiffen a little bit, you know, when you when
you are consuming that kind of thing, it's like, all right,
I see I hear myself. I see myself. This is
not some caricature of who I am, but rather a
more true reflection. It's empowering, especially when you get to
see it on you know, on a big screen.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know you have an appreciation for film the way
I do, because we will at random act out an
entire scene and you know totally, you know all the words,
the intonation in everything. We both are very we are
into content. I just thought about that as we're talking
about this. Yeah, we did a whole Andrew and I
(13:59):
were walking in Midtown, New York and acted out the
entire scene of dream Girls.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I don't I was like, I'm trying to think what
which was it was?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I only got it's so ridiculous. I don't even remember,
but it was so ridiculous. But that's not what We've
done several movies together where we just will randomly act
out a scene.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
A boomerang used to be my I don't think I
had to give it up for a while. I was like,
you know, you can't be earthy kid always my God,
yeah done.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Lady Luise, Lady Ylluise.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Lady Yllouise. Those are some characters, man, classics.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Those are our classes. Oh God, like coming to America,
those are our classes.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, I would tell you boomerang though, really, I mean,
it just shifted my mind around possibility. I had not
seen a film with the whole big a corporate building
in New York looking, you know, tall skyscrapers, all black, wore,
black folks owned all the floors. Then you know that
(15:15):
you're in the secure you know, from security, you know,
all the way to the executive. It was.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Working in the millroom.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I'm telling you, Murphy.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
For that to really opening, because we were young, you know,
we weren't entering our career. We were in like middle
school and high school at that time. So to see
something like that as a possibility, you know, and then
to turn that possibility into a probability to enter institutions
of higher ed to explore that, you know, like, what
an amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
That's to say nothing about the soft porn, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I was Lauren r Et suggesting, and
I like this. This is our call to the listeners
and viewers. What is a classic movie or TV show
that transformed you? You know that you saw it and
it was like wow, this really tapped into something for you.
(16:11):
And give us the name of the TV show or
the movie and what it was about that. You can
drop it in the comments. You can send in a
video and yeah, we can pick this because I'm sure
Angela has a film too, so we can pick this
conversation up with her.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
But yeah, I want.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
What I'm shot.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I mean, I have others. But just in recent history,
the Name Yourself episode in Lovecraft where this woman essentially
had lived a thousand lives and had traveled through a
thousand years and acquire this knowledge and learn the ways
(16:50):
to harness energy and to self define in a way
that takes you to such another level. Astronauts describe it
as the overview effect that once you transcend out of
this Earth and you look down at this planet and
you see all that you know, there are billions of
galaxies all around us, And the overview effect makes you
(17:11):
consider that, man, just last week, I was this little,
tiny person worrying about paying taxes and my mortgage. But
then when you broadcast out in the macro on a
whole of the lefl outside the universe, and you realize,
I am but a tiny grain of sand in the
hour glass of time. A billion people existed before me,
a billion people will exist after me. What is it
(17:32):
that I am doing here? What is it I'm meant
to be doing here? How do I self define? How
do I harness this energy that will likely live on forever?
Will I go on to live a thousand more lives?
So that was the overview, but also in the granular,
the Mother Earth's incarnateness of black women. You know that
(17:57):
we are warriors, healers, shine and have always had such
a rebirthed black men. We love black men. There are counterparts,
you know, we are on equal footing, but we are
the pathway to life. And what that meant for her
and the one thing that could bring her back to
(18:18):
this tiny little planet Earth was her child, the love
for her Chiuse. She had to go back for her daughter,
but she came back.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
With all this knowledge.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And I'm telling you, Andrew, you know you and I
have had conversations about this. Me and Natasha had that
that conversation. It wasn't a movie, but it changed my
life about tapping into your imagination. I won't get into
it because I told a story so many times on
the podcast, But Andrew and Latasha had the most beautiful
exchange about what it means for black people to tap
into our imaginations. So that episode of love Craft Country
(18:49):
made me tap into my own and just it's something
I'm still working through and how to harness my own energy.
Like I'm over here, Like I don't have the energy
or time to get in the back and forth earth
on a cable news platform that seems so.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Small for me.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I don't have the energy or time to focus on.
Every insult doesn't deserve my response, Every short tone doesn't
deserve my attention. Every negative person, every negative comment, every
little strife, if somebody got a beef with me, that
doesn't deserve my energy. How am I harnessing my energy
to create something almost metaphysical? Love you always love Craft,
(19:28):
You'll get what.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I'm one another. Yeah, mine's so simple Brange was good.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That was good.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
No simple boomerang wouldn't would not be the one I
would reflect it. It would be definitely a different world.
And that's simply because as it coming from a family
that didn't have a tradition of going to college in
my media household, it gave me the goal to go
to college, to go to Healman, very specifically and all
(19:58):
the way through believe even that Hillman was a real
place up until I started sending my SAT scores out
and I'm looking for the codes and Hillman wasn't one
of the codes, and it tripped me up. And that
was the only moment eleventh grade was when I realized
it was fake. Yeah, that it was. It was. It
was the amalgamation of all of our HBCUs that wasn't
(20:21):
one place, but that this is a life that can
be experienced at many places, but exclusively at an HBCU. Yes,
And that's what set my site there.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It was no other option for me, like I had
to go to HBCU only because of a different world.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I said, I had to go to hill Man. Yes,
And then I got my heart broken. Well fam you
fam oh no no, no, no, no, Ultimately, I went
to my hill.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
You went to MAN. We lived in Wakanda. You went
to HBC.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
You lived in Wakanda. You had your Wakanda experience at FAM.
You I had my experience at THAU. And I think
the other thing about a different world also is what
it meant to be among community, you know, like what
it meant to be with us, And to know that
(21:11):
there was every different type of black person.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
On the planet.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
You know, there were the super religious people, there were
like the skateboarders. There were like the West Coast, like
gnarly unrelatable, both the Black American princess. So I'm like,
you got a car, you know, you down here in
a dad line, your dad owns like dealerships, support.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
And Chanel's and all this. You know, Yes, it's like what.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It shaped helped shape my worldview here. So yeah, but
you know, someone.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Said, people who don't understand what it means to be
reflected in that way. I mean, it's just it's such
an undervalue statement when I hear people say, you know,
to see yourself reflected, because I often wonder are the
other people who are in earshot of hearing you say this?
Really grasping because if you're the majority and you have
(22:06):
always been the image that's reflected, I kind of feel
like the only time you know that this is a privilege,
and maybe you don't even give it its credit, is
maybe when you're in a room as a white person
you look around and you realize you're the only way
you don't realize it, you know it from the moment
you enter it. And then I often used to say
to some of my colleagues, like, now you get a semblance,
(22:28):
maybe just a little linkling of what I get to
experience literally going every day in and out of the
day as a mayor or a commissioner or whatever, or
in this room, at these seats and at these tables
of power and decision and influence, and to be there
and to never see yourself walk through the damn door,
never a presenter, never the option that is on the
(22:50):
menu of options of what we could decide or choose.
That only until then do you get to really grasp
the significance of this statement what it means to see
yourself reflected.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
That's so true, Andrew, that's so true. Okay, Well you
got our thoughts.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I just want to add one.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
We want to hear you, but something that we can
when we when we hear you all thought something we
may want to revisit. Someone said on they made a
comment on my post that Dwayne and Whitley's relationship was toxic, and.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
I have since visited she was.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Remember she kissed Ron like she went out with your
your best friend and kissed them in your face.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Like, hey, you got her back at the wedding altar?
You want her back, please please?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Like they I mean, but that was when you as
a grown woman. I'm looking at that like nomn. She
really was. She was interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
She was analyzed it that way. Yes, so this is
why we want and need the feedback from from y'all
our listeners, because it may put a whole new spin
on the thing that.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
We thought we knew totally totally all right, Well, thank you.
I knew we would come up.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I wasn't really sure that I wanted to talk about creators,
but I really did see thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I like when we just hit record, we always have
stuff to talk about.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
It's also possible that I'm willing and really able to
talk about anything, just like you are. What do you
want to do today?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yes, we flow, we flow, We always have stuff. Whether
the cameras are rolling or not, we always have stuff
to talk about. Sometimes I wish there were this cameras
rolling with us and they hit record, because some of
our best conversations as we're having food gasms, when we've
like found a great restaurant and we're or way.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
We take a good walk.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yes, well, I love my good.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Walks are always good.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I love my walk yep. And on that note, everybody
know about those walks because when you see the cousins
to go for a walk, if you win that walk,
you better get to get in when that walk happens,
so you're gonna miss the walk anyway. Thank you guys,
welcome home, Thanks for tuning in uh and we'll see
you next time on the Mini Pod when Angelo's back.
(24:55):
Be sure to check out Stay to the people, you
guys to see that out there hitting the pavement, and
you'll see us on sour as well. If you liked
this episode, share it, post it, comment, talk about it, subscribe,
tell your friends to listen, and be sure to spread
the words. This is how we can create more content
and be here in conversation and community with you all.
(25:15):
We'll see you next time on native Land Pod. I'm
Tiffany Cross here with my co host Andrew Gillim.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Welcome home, Andrew Gillim, and welcome home y'all.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
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Speaker 2 (00:04):
Well come, well come, well come, well come, well come.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We're here for this week's mini pod. I am your host,
Tiffany Krost, along with my co host Andrew Gillham.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I'll be honest with y'all.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We did not plan what we wanted to talk about,
but I was like, let's just say record, because I
always have things I want to talk to Andrew about.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Uh, they're always okay.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Well, the one thing I wanted to talk to you about,
to be honest, Andrew, is Sinners.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
But you have not seen it yet.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I have Ryan Coogler's you know I haven't. I have
raved in all the news about how much it's earned.
Oh my god, you know it's it's top slot debut
and all the hate. Help me you talk about the substance?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Can you please bring me to speed on why is
this so great? Why are I don't.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Want to spoil it? I think, and I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I don't want to talk about it a lot because
I want us to have a deeper conversation when you
once you've actually seen it, Because The symbolism and history
in this film is just beautiful and it's the movie
we need.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Right now for this moment.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
But I surmise that because a lot of the coverage
for the film, you guys, the opening weekend, it was,
you know, this film gross sixty five million, but Warner
Brothers paid X amount of dollars, so long, long way
before it's profitable. And what a strange way to frame
a successful movie, you know. And that wasn't the only one.
(01:26):
There was headline after headline that kind of downplayed its success,
that cautioned excitement around it.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
And I had not seen the film.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Once I saw the film, I said, ah, okay, now
I see they're like we did. I have all these
black folks going to watch this film, And because a
lot of the people who liked it who don't look
like us, I was looking like, I wonder what you're.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Getting out of the film?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
What did you When did you understand this film do
and mean? And it was I felt the same way
about get Out. I'm like, all these people who love
get Out, I'm like, when of the Kardashians saying, I
must they love get Out?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I'm like, we missed most precisely what did.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
The Kardashians love about get Out?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
You know? And it was kind of like that with Cinner.
So we'll have a deeper conversation around it. But I
think I think a good conversation we could have, if
you want, is what goes into black and brown creativity,
because when the things that I've seen happen, like Master
of None with Asiase I'm sorry, was one of the
best shows. I mean, it was just so well done.
(02:27):
That's how we came to know Lena Way. I mean,
it was just a really well done show, and it's like, yes,
that's what happens when executives get out the way and
just let brown people create. On some of our shows
that we've seen insecure, I would say, is a show
like that love Craft Country?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
My god, love Craft oh man?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
And why did that go away? Okay, struggling?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The second season of love Craft Country was going to
be called Supremacy. I'm so mad me And so the
reason why I've heard is HBO executives describe Misha Green
as different cult, which of course makes me like, anytime
you start describing us as difficult, I want to know
what exactly the situation was.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, I want to know what did they disagree with
you about? What did they say no?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And you know, Ryan Cougler with Centners, like he broke
the bank on these people, and you know, to me,
whatever he got paid, it wasn't enough. They're going to
more than make their money back on this film. But
it also just cast a wide net of influence over
creators when we support high quality work and the level
of detail that Ryan Cougler paid to this film. There's
(03:38):
a moment where you'll see Chinese characters who are Southern
Chinese folks living in Mississippi, and you know this Andrew that, yes,
that is a part of Southern culture in Louisiana. There's
a huge Vietnamese community, you know, after the railroads, and
you know kind of like how these populations came to
(03:58):
be and how they came to be shaped. Follow a
platform next next Shark on Instagram that gives api history.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
So I don't know. I say all that to say,
we're in a very unique moment in history where we
are side eyeing.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Other communities, you know, where it's like, I don't know,
you might have voted for this man, and I can't
really rock with you, like I gotta go insular and
only deal with black people, only talk to black people,
And I certainly feel the most comfort there. But I
just I know people within the ap PI community who
who fight against anti black sentiment, who fight against racism,
(04:33):
who are allies, like I have given them the title
of ally. They've earned it and I've given it to them.
I know people in the Latino community who also are
black folks. Y'all, there are there's Latino, there are black people,
and then there are black Latinos. There's a venn diagram
Latino own precisely in Dominica, in Port and everywhere there
(04:53):
are black you know, the the slave ships stopped everywhere
and some people, you know, you have Afro Colombian and who.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Was on that ship, by the way, looked different in
different places, and some places they were Asians who were
on uh those slave ships or under indentured servitude and
still treated and and employed on the slave labor. You
talked about, you know, the railroad and the building of that,
the connecting of the East and the West, and how
it is that you know, Asians occupied so much of
(05:22):
these rare places that you would find, you know, these
buckets of community on the creative piece, because I don't
think of myself as a creative and am certainly not
implied to to to to even think so. But I
I have been watching or watched rather and I don't
(05:42):
know which app it's on, but it interviewed all of
these black actors, first the men and then the women.
Oh god, if y'all have it, which which platform is that?
On that apple?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
We'll give us some money because we're given y'all whole
free commercial.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I just I just got to say, I was so
moved watch it and drawing the tears and other forms
of emotions as I listened to these a list black actors'
names that we would all know, you know, you know,
off the dome, and how they reflect on their experience
in an industry that wholly didn't value. And I say
(06:25):
didn't as if it's past tense. I think it's it's
still true, don't value, but certainly you know, in the
moments that they're reflecting on, it's clear didn't value. I
mean Angela Bassett and that Tina Turner biopic. I'm still
mad when I was reminded, you know, of the slight
of hand that that that she was handed at that
(06:48):
time for acknowledgment of the hard work that that's required
that our folks do. But I think, Tiff, in so
many ways, our creatives make it look so seamless, almost
so effortless, like you underappreciate the amount of energy, effort, concentration,
(07:10):
discipline that they had to exhibit to get that job done.
And study it's so underappreciated.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Like Viola Davis is a Juilliard graduate, and she talks
about studying at Juilliard and how, you know, having to
learn different dialects, you know, having to learn the British dialects,
having to learn Southern dialects, and it's like, well, why
didn't white people have to learn different African dialects? You know,
like why did we center whiteness in our craft? And
(07:39):
it's so true the way that that's centered in everything.
We were talking a bit this week on the podcast
about you know, cable news executives, you know, and and
still what is centered is white perspective, white life. You know,
even when you talk about evangelical so white is silent.
You know, you assume evangelicals are with Trump because you're
only thinking about the Billy Graham wing of evangelical in film,
(08:03):
you're only thinking about white perspective. You know that famous clip,
infamous clip of Tony Morrison being interviewed and the woman saying,
but you don't sent her white people in your books,
as if that is the starting point, you know, like
you're can we I have?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
And also when they in politics, before you leave those
examples and politics, when we say the real America, get
out and talk to real Americans and what people commentators
and analysts mean when they say the real America, what
black people are working blue collar jobs and are disaffected
in all parts of this land. Yet you got to
go to the heartland quote to meet real Americans. Yeah,
(08:45):
that they don't exist. Real Americans don't exist in cities.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah yeah, real Americans. That I'm so offended by that
entire notion. But that is like the thought process that
that's the defining thought process for so many people. But
I have a request one. I want you to see
Sinners so we can do a whole mini pie. But
Centers has me so inspired. I would like us to
(09:09):
rewatch Lovecraft Country.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
To rewatch I'm down there and watch it. I thought
it was I thought it was powerful, and I can't
I couldn't believe that the viewership if that were it
was so was so lackluster that it wouldn't It was
so beautifully done the acting girls.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
But there's a woman who also plays in Centers and
I don't know how to say her name, but she
is so strikingly beautiful. She's actually British and I don't
know where her country of origin is from, but she
was born in the UK, and I'm gonna look it
up because I want to give her her flowers.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I know her name, every everything I've seen her amazing.
If there were a talent who is who was underrated,
it would be her amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
And she loves you. Remember we ran into her at
tammeron Hall Show.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I know I'm a fan, but I'm a sincere fan
of her craft, of her Workie what you know, Jerny
Smilett another one who I.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Thought I love Craft Country and her sister is played
by woone Me Mosaku. I forgive me if that's not
how you say her name, but woon me Osaku, who
got the Chicago accent very like, she did it very well.
Uh in Center, she got that Mississippi Southern actvert. I mean,
she's just an amazing actions but strikingly beautiful. I just
can't stop looking at this woman. I think she's I
(10:43):
just I think we're gonna see more of her. But
I would like us, Yeah, I would like us to
rewise The love Craft Country because it was one of
the most beautiful pieces of television I've ever seen, and
it really tapped into my imagination.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Is shaped how I saw.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Things the Name Yourself episode that Sensor and I was
new Ellis. I don't want to give it away if
you all haven't watched its years old, though, I feel
like we should be able to talk about spoilers, but
I would like you all to watch.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It with Yeah, dig in, dig in.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So it is so good, Jonathan Major.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
It's mind shifting. Yeah, that's what creatives should do. Like
we always talk about the imagination and how we reach
a whole nother level of like the imaginative and the reimagining.
They did that for us in reset a context and
a set of experiences historically based in some cases otherwise
you know, in some instances derivatives of It's powerful. And
(11:35):
I think that they're the ones who put peel the
scales off of our eyes and allow us to see
things more beautifully if you you know, to imagine things
more beautifully. And I thank them for that.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Just we are we offer our gratitude for what they
do on the screen, what they bring to their craft
a seriousness. When you see BTS footage of Ryan Coogler
on all of his films, from Fruit Station Uh to
Creed to Black Panther to Sinners, he is involved at
(12:07):
the molecular level, you know, like he is that his
hands are stop everything he is, from the cinematography to
the type of film they shoot on to the actors
working closely with the actors and the storyboard, and he
puts such thought into it. And I think anytime that
you're devoting that level of detail to your craft, that
(12:31):
we owe you our attention. You know, I'm not at
the theater like this on my phone. I'm not you know,
chopping onions in the background. At home, I sit and
honor the work of the folks who poured their heart
into it, and so I don't like going.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
To the theater.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Stand Barry Jenkins to be similar, you know, a Miami Boy,
but and and and then you know the Lion King
and and even in illustrations and playful ways, still incorporating
the richness of us. Like if you get the subtext,
you know, they don't make it hard for you to
be able to access it. But if you if you're
(13:08):
willing to get the subtext, it just it makes your
spine stiffen a little bit, you know, when you when
you are consuming that kind of thing, it's like, all right,
I see I hear myself. I see myself. This is
not some caricature of who I am, but rather a
more true reflection. It's empowering, especially when you get to
see it on you know, on a big screen.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know you have an appreciation for film the way
I do, because we will at random act out an
entire scene and you know totally, you know all the words,
the intonation in everything. We both are very we are
into content. I just thought about that as we're talking
about this. Yeah, we did a whole Andrew and I
(13:59):
were walking in Midtown, New York and acted out the
entire scene of dream Girls.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I don't I was like, I'm trying to think what
which was it was?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I only got it's so ridiculous. I don't even remember,
but it was so ridiculous. But that's not what We've
done several movies together where we just will randomly act
out a scene.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
A boomerang used to be my I don't think I
had to give it up for a while. I was like,
you know, you can't be earthy kid always my God,
yeah done.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Lady Luise, Lady Ylluise.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Lady Yllouise. Those are some characters, man, classics.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Those are our classes. Oh God, like coming to America,
those are our classes.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, I would tell you boomerang though, really, I mean,
it just shifted my mind around possibility. I had not
seen a film with the whole big a corporate building
in New York looking, you know, tall skyscrapers, all black, wore,
black folks owned all the floors. Then you know that
(15:15):
you're in the secure you know, from security, you know,
all the way to the executive. It was.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Working in the millroom.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I'm telling you, Murphy.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
For that to really opening, because we were young, you know,
we weren't entering our career. We were in like middle
school and high school at that time. So to see
something like that as a possibility, you know, and then
to turn that possibility into a probability to enter institutions
of higher ed to explore that, you know, like, what
an amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
That's to say nothing about the soft porn, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I was Lauren r Et suggesting, and
I like this. This is our call to the listeners
and viewers. What is a classic movie or TV show
that transformed you? You know that you saw it and
it was like wow, this really tapped into something for you.
(16:11):
And give us the name of the TV show or
the movie and what it was about that. You can
drop it in the comments. You can send in a
video and yeah, we can pick this because I'm sure
Angela has a film too, so we can pick this
conversation up with her.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
But yeah, I want.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
What I'm shot.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I mean, I have others. But just in recent history,
the Name Yourself episode in Lovecraft where this woman essentially
had lived a thousand lives and had traveled through a
thousand years and acquire this knowledge and learn the ways
(16:50):
to harness energy and to self define in a way
that takes you to such another level. Astronauts describe it
as the overview effect that once you transcend out of
this Earth and you look down at this planet and
you see all that you know, there are billions of
galaxies all around us, And the overview effect makes you
(17:11):
consider that, man, just last week, I was this little,
tiny person worrying about paying taxes and my mortgage. But
then when you broadcast out in the macro on a
whole of the lefl outside the universe, and you realize,
I am but a tiny grain of sand in the
hour glass of time. A billion people existed before me,
a billion people will exist after me. What is it
(17:32):
that I am doing here? What is it I'm meant
to be doing here? How do I self define? How
do I harness this energy that will likely live on forever?
Will I go on to live a thousand more lives?
So that was the overview, but also in the granular,
the Mother Earth's incarnateness of black women. You know that
(17:57):
we are warriors, healers, shine and have always had such
a rebirthed black men. We love black men. There are counterparts,
you know, we are on equal footing, but we are
the pathway to life. And what that meant for her
and the one thing that could bring her back to
(18:18):
this tiny little planet Earth was her child, the love
for her Chiuse. She had to go back for her daughter,
but she came back.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
With all this knowledge.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And I'm telling you, Andrew, you know you and I
have had conversations about this. Me and Natasha had that
that conversation. It wasn't a movie, but it changed my
life about tapping into your imagination. I won't get into
it because I told a story so many times on
the podcast, But Andrew and Latasha had the most beautiful
exchange about what it means for black people to tap
into our imaginations. So that episode of love Craft Country
(18:49):
made me tap into my own and just it's something
I'm still working through and how to harness my own energy.
Like I'm over here, Like I don't have the energy
or time to get in the back and forth earth
on a cable news platform that seems so.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Small for me.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I don't have the energy or time to focus on.
Every insult doesn't deserve my response, Every short tone doesn't
deserve my attention. Every negative person, every negative comment, every
little strife, if somebody got a beef with me, that
doesn't deserve my energy. How am I harnessing my energy
to create something almost metaphysical? Love you always love Craft,
(19:28):
You'll get what.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I'm one another. Yeah, mine's so simple Brange was good.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That was good.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
No simple boomerang wouldn't would not be the one I
would reflect it. It would be definitely a different world.
And that's simply because as it coming from a family
that didn't have a tradition of going to college in
my media household, it gave me the goal to go
to college, to go to Healman, very specifically and all
(19:58):
the way through believe even that Hillman was a real
place up until I started sending my SAT scores out
and I'm looking for the codes and Hillman wasn't one
of the codes, and it tripped me up. And that
was the only moment eleventh grade was when I realized
it was fake. Yeah, that it was. It was. It
was the amalgamation of all of our HBCUs that wasn't
(20:21):
one place, but that this is a life that can
be experienced at many places, but exclusively at an HBCU. Yes,
And that's what set my site there.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It was no other option for me, like I had
to go to HBCU only because of a different world.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I said, I had to go to hill Man. Yes,
And then I got my heart broken. Well fam you
fam oh no no, no, no, no, Ultimately, I went
to my hill.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
You went to MAN. We lived in Wakanda. You went
to HBC.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
You lived in Wakanda. You had your Wakanda experience at FAM.
You I had my experience at THAU. And I think
the other thing about a different world also is what
it meant to be among community, you know, like what
it meant to be with us, And to know that
(21:11):
there was every different type of black person.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
On the planet.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
You know, there were the super religious people, there were
like the skateboarders. There were like the West Coast, like
gnarly unrelatable, both the Black American princess. So I'm like,
you got a car, you know, you down here in
a dad line, your dad owns like dealerships, support.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
And Chanel's and all this. You know, Yes, it's like what.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It shaped helped shape my worldview here. So yeah, but
you know, someone.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Said, people who don't understand what it means to be
reflected in that way. I mean, it's just it's such
an undervalue statement when I hear people say, you know,
to see yourself reflected, because I often wonder are the
other people who are in earshot of hearing you say this?
Really grasping because if you're the majority and you have
(22:06):
always been the image that's reflected, I kind of feel
like the only time you know that this is a privilege,
and maybe you don't even give it its credit, is
maybe when you're in a room as a white person
you look around and you realize you're the only way
you don't realize it, you know it from the moment
you enter it. And then I often used to say
to some of my colleagues, like, now you get a semblance,
(22:28):
maybe just a little linkling of what I get to
experience literally going every day in and out of the
day as a mayor or a commissioner or whatever, or
in this room, at these seats and at these tables
of power and decision and influence, and to be there
and to never see yourself walk through the damn door,
never a presenter, never the option that is on the
(22:50):
menu of options of what we could decide or choose.
That only until then do you get to really grasp
the significance of this statement what it means to see
yourself reflected.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
That's so true, Andrew, that's so true. Okay, Well you
got our thoughts.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I just want to add one.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
We want to hear you, but something that we can
when we when we hear you all thought something we
may want to revisit. Someone said on they made a
comment on my post that Dwayne and Whitley's relationship was toxic, and.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
I have since visited she was.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Remember she kissed Ron like she went out with your
your best friend and kissed them in your face.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Like, hey, you got her back at the wedding altar?
You want her back, please please?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Like they I mean, but that was when you as
a grown woman. I'm looking at that like nomn. She
really was. She was interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
She was analyzed it that way. Yes, so this is
why we want and need the feedback from from y'all
our listeners, because it may put a whole new spin
on the thing that.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
We thought we knew totally totally all right, Well, thank you.
I knew we would come up.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I wasn't really sure that I wanted to talk about creators,
but I really did see thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I like when we just hit record, we always have
stuff to talk about.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
It's also possible that I'm willing and really able to
talk about anything, just like you are. What do you
want to do today?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yes, we flow, we flow, We always have stuff. Whether
the cameras are rolling or not, we always have stuff
to talk about. Sometimes I wish there were this cameras
rolling with us and they hit record, because some of
our best conversations as we're having food gasms, when we've
like found a great restaurant and we're or way.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
We take a good walk.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yes, well, I love my good.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Walks are always good.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I love my walk yep. And on that note, everybody
know about those walks because when you see the cousins
to go for a walk, if you win that walk,
you better get to get in when that walk happens,
so you're gonna miss the walk anyway. Thank you guys,
welcome home, Thanks for tuning in uh and we'll see
you next time on the Mini Pod when Angelo's back.
(24:55):
Be sure to check out Stay to the people, you
guys to see that out there hitting the pavement, and
you'll see us on sour as well. If you liked
this episode, share it, post it, comment, talk about it, subscribe,
tell your friends to listen, and be sure to spread
the words. This is how we can create more content
and be here in conversation and community with you all.
(25:15):
We'll see you next time on native Land Pod. I'm
Tiffany Cross here with my co host Andrew Gillim.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Welcome home, Andrew Gillim, and welcome home y'all.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Native Land Pod is the production of iHeart Radio and
partnership with Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
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Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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