How to Buy a Politician

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Resent Choice Media.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
Muslims have sometimes, whether you have or not, and I
think probably you have have sometimes it seemed to me
been preaching hate to meet hate. I don't advocate any
kind of hate.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
A lot of talk that sounds very much like it.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
No, I think that the guilt complex of the American
white man is so profound until when you begin to
analyze the real condition of the black man in America.
Instead of the American white man eliminating the causes that
create that condition, he tries to cover it up by
accusing his accusers of teaching hate, but actually they're just

(00:42):
exposing him for being responsible for what exists.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Welcome home, y'all, Welcome home. This is episode seventy one
of Native Land Pod. That was, of course the Good
Brother Malcolm X. He was in a conversation in an
interview with a graduate student, a sociology graduate student, Herman Blake,
and Professor John Leggett. So we got a lot to
get to today, and we want to get right into it.

(01:10):
We don't want to keep you waiting On our pre
production call, we were talking about what we want to
talk about today, and Angela, I think you had a
really good topic.

Speaker 5 (01:20):
Well, thank you, tiv. I think what is really important
given where we are in this country right now, we're
hearing people all over the country talking about wanting to
see a fight from their elected officials, and they're like,
what is holding y'all back? We have a secret for y'all.
It's called special interest. We're going to talk a little
bit about special interest the outside role they play in
our political process. And Andrew might have a story or

(01:42):
two to tell himself.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
Ad what you got, good friend? There are stories, There
are many. I appreciate this question because I think this
is the part of politics that is the subtext, the underspoken,
never spoken, probably never seen part that is the heavyweight
in the room, to be quite frankly, and I'll talk
to you about what it looks like at the I.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Love the idea of talking about special interests because there
are also geopolitical special interests that we're seeing play out
and have a direct impact on our domestic policy here
in America. So I definitely want to get into that.
So the whole show, we're talking about special interest and
I just want to remind folks we too have our
own special interests and we'll get into that in the
conversation too. So let's get into it. Let's kick us out.

(02:30):
So I think we have a question from a viewer
that can speak, can help us get into this conversation.
Let's hear from the viewer.

Speaker 6 (02:38):
High Native lampod Hi, Andrew, Hi, Tiffany, Hi, Angela. I
love you guys, Thank you all so much. I just
have one question. What is the goal of Project twenty
twenty five. What are they wanting this country to look like?
I've read the book nineteen eighty four by George Orwell
and is the cistopian America? Was like, that's where they're going.

(03:02):
But what are we suffering through? They want us to suffer.
They want us to you know, ride this wave, but
they're firing, you know, a million federal workers. They are
pulling back regulations, they're defunding and canceling, you know, the education.
And it's like, what is this country supposed to look

(03:23):
like when you're all done? And said, you know, the
rich get richer and the poor get poor, But like,
what is this world? What are we supposed to look like,
what are we supposed to do? But thank you all
for all that you do. Love you bye.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I love that. Make fiction again. That is the mantra. Honestly,
that's so many of us. Yeah, yeah, it is. It's
really it's it's scary to see what happened. And I
love this question speaking of special interest because I think
that is the special interest that had such a huge

(03:58):
impact on the campaign is having a huge impact on
the country. I got to say to me, the goal
of Project twenty twenty five is Black folks. I think
we are at the center of all of this policy,
of all of this hatred.

Speaker 5 (04:12):
It is.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
A concentrated effort.

Speaker 5 (04:16):
I was like, wait a minute, what, it's.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
A concentrated effort to oppress and suppress. Yes, And it
is making me revisit the entire conversation that can we
even coexist here? I was recently having this conversation about
you know, when President Abraham Lincoln said we like we
should get rid of the black folks, like we cannot

(04:39):
coexist with them. And I have to say, I think
he may have had a point because he essentially said,
they will never forgive us for enslaving them, and white
people will never want the stain of slavery around them,
So let's give them some money and ship them out
of America. And you look at us hundreds of years later,
and I do I think it is always it's been

(05:00):
a bitter battle in this country because we are the
keepers of America's memory, and so this anti black discrimination
has a wide impact and cast a dark shadow across
so many areas of our politics. And they were able
to convince other people to hate black folks too. And
there were certain people who are now considered white, but
they didn't have white folk. The Italians weren't considered white

(05:21):
for a while, and then they got white privilege. And
the way you the fastest way to get that is
to hop one hat and black folks. So I think
we are at the center of all of this discord,
to be honest with you.

Speaker 5 (05:33):
You know, when I heard this question, one, thank you
for the brilliant question. We do love you too. We
started the show with Malcolm X, you know, a prophet
in his own time, talking about that they will change
the what is happening to say that the people who

(05:54):
are the recorders and documentaris of accurate history are not ahistorical,
are not real vision is his history. Tellers will be
made to seem like they are the actual haters. And
I think that accountability is not hate, even though it's uncomfortable.
And you know, when I think about the question, because
we did a whole podcast on Project twenty twenty five,

(06:16):
what is it? What is its origins? Thank you to
all of you who've watched it. It's one of our
biggest shows. Please visit it again, Please visit it especially
for the underpinnings of Project twenty twenty five to the
point of the question. But I think the fundamental question
here is what do they want the country to look like?
You know what does the country they imagine include us?

(06:39):
Does it include brown people, does it include the actual
founders of this space, people from Indian country? Or does
it exclude everyone because they think white is right? You know,
do they think that make America great again? I remember
they did this poll around the twenty sixteen election about
what was the era? Right then? You want to get

(06:59):
back to that demonstrates when America was at its greatest,
and these my mothers went into the fifties. Yeah, you know,
they went to the pre civil rights era. And what
I got to tell you guys, and I don't want
to disrespect our predecessors at all, but I think that
we almost in nineteen fifty. Right now, in twenty twenty five,

(07:19):
it feels like they rolled back all of these rights.
I'm not going to say his name, but I had
a really interesting conversation with a thought leader among us
right now who said, you know what I think we
have to pay attention to is we spent all this
time focusing on civil rights advancements, our voting rights, affordable housing,

(07:40):
fair housing, access, equal opportunity, and employment and education. And
they were able to roll that back in less than
two months. So if we were to examine where we
put our focus to the same point that Congressman wrangel
raised upon his retirement from Congress and a CBC meeting,

(08:01):
he said, have we spent too much time focusing on
social policy and not none enough on economic policy? The
reason they are able to advance in these ways at
our expense is because they can afford it.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Andrew I Angela raised a really good questions, your thoughts,
have we spent too much time advancing social policy and
not economic That was mister Rangles, That's.

Speaker 5 (08:26):
What he was. It was a conundrum you could see
the pain on his face. Like and mister Rangel and
I didn't agree on every single thing, but he's a
CBC founder. He was a part of the group that
sent the sixty one recommendations to Richard Nixon. Most of them,
not all of them, but most of them focus on
social policy. Even the way that we approached housing access
was about what was fair and just and not about

(08:48):
giving us the resources to afford to be where they
are or even to be where we are.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
It's because it didn't matter how much, but it didn't
matter how much.

Speaker 5 (08:55):
But that's the thing, and right now it doesn't matter
how much because they are able to lock us out
all of all of all of our progress. And it's
a damn shame. You know. I'm not and that's gonna say.
I'm not trying to disrespect our forebeers, but I do
think we got to wrestle with this because as we
prepare for a fight, and as we lean into what
it means to persist, resist and oppose, what is the

(09:17):
right lane. Do we go right back to protecting voting
rights and civil rights and all this, or do we
go into fighting for our own space, our own dollars,
our own access, our own communities, so they can't take
it away.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
I don't know, but I don't. I want to hear
from you, Andrew. I just as I talked to you,
I want to say we did that. So we when
we carved out a little tiny space for ourselves in
the Green District of Pulse, they weren't bothering anybody. These
are people who were just living their life, and they
found it and killed us. The US government they bombed
the shit out of us. You know, they came in

(09:52):
and murdered men, women, children. It was state sanctioned murders.
And so there is something in the right that was
not the anomaly, that was the norm, because years prior
to that, the Red Summer of nineteen nineteen, it was
rampant violence across this country aimed at black people, black communities. So, Andrew,

(10:12):
I don't know that. I don't know that it can
be one or the other, or should we be fighting
for both, or does this even system of capitalism ever
serve us?

Speaker 4 (10:24):
I mean, I so do respect to the Congressman. I
actually don't believe that the fight has been social exclusive.
I actually think the values that brought us to the
fight may feel social racial and gender parody, so that
we can compete, but compete for what, to compete for jobs,

(10:47):
to compete for schools that would educate our children and
make them qualify for the positions that paid higher wages.
We fought for fair housing so that when folks went
out and worked a full time plus days of work,
that they could then invest in this economy by affording
to live where it is that they work. When our

(11:10):
four parents fought for much of the social safety net,
I would argue, practically all of it is economic in nature.
So I actually, I actually believe that while our fight
has been informed by our consciousness around fairness and ending discrimination,

(11:31):
it has all been toward the end goal of being
able to earn a wage that you can live on,
take care of yourself and your family, and have a
vacation every once in a while. So that's just my
slight exception, and folks may land on different sides of that.
And then to the question around Project twenty twenty five,
I'll say two things. One, I think part of its

(11:52):
goal was to turn what we right now associate as
a democracy with three branches of government helmed by an
executive branch. They would like to create what they discussed
as the administrative They want to get rid of what
they call the administrative state, which is all these agencies

(12:12):
running things, and they want to create the unitary executive,
all powerful, all being exempt from criminal prosecutions, who can
make decisions unilaterally, to shut departments, to decide whether to
enforce laws, so on and so forth. So they argue
a very different picture of what democracy looks like than

(12:34):
I think how most of us conceive of it. But
I would argue that their belief is probably closer to
where the Framers were. Remember, the Framers didn't give everybody
the right to vote, not even all white people. It
gave all white property owning men the right to vote.
They did not believe largely in direct democracy in the
sense that you vote for the person, and whoever votes
the most of that person wins. No, they thought that

(12:57):
the emotions of the people, the emotions of the general public,
needed to be muted, or at least the edge taken
off by a more sophisticated, smarter, intelligent, a richer group
of white men who could then calm the passions of

(13:18):
the people. So they have today. This is wild, but
that's because that's exactly what they believe in. It's been
it's been the belief since the very beginning. And then
the second part of the response on present between twenty
five is to say they hold I think I think
your point Tiffany was right that black people, but I
would argue that it's been black people, uh and eliminating

(13:41):
us as as a productive part of this society by
virtue of what conditions exist that allow our uplift in
the first place? What do I mean? I believe that
they are intent on destroying the entirety of the social
safety net, social security. They were not for it when
it was proposed. It happened because there was a Democratic

(14:02):
president and a super majority Democratic Senate. When we think
about retirement benefits, they don't support that. When we think
about medicaid, medicare they believe in this mythology of the
survival of the fittest that whoever survives were the ones
who were fit and meant to survive. Donald Trump told

(14:22):
us that in the first administration, he said, the people
who are affected mostly by COVID are folks who are
already sick, are older, or are the black people. They
said that he said it from a white House, right.
So I think where they want to go is back
to a time where if you had means and wealth,
name and privilege, this country was for you. And anyone

(14:47):
who didn't have that in their possession, you fail by
the wayside. Oh you can't afford retirement, find you sleep
on the streets. Oh you can't afford to get health care?
Then and die. I don't mean, I mean, I don't
mean to be dismissive in anyway or cute by one half.
This is their vision of the country, and through Project
twenty twenty five and then dismantling of all of this,

(15:08):
they are well on their way to trying to achieve
the kind of country that they that they that they
believe should have existed in the first world.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
That gets to that this question of special interest though.
You know, Angela, you were looking into special interests when
it comes to members of Congress, and I to Andrew's point,
that is something that is not talked about. I keep
saying it every podcast. I'm not going to stop this podcast.
It is such a gross failure of American media and

(15:36):
journalism that we don't talk more about that and highlight
who is funding some of these members. Because Project twenty
twenty five was funded. You know, it came out of
the Heritage Foundation, but there are people funding it. This
presidency is funded by a sole immigrant, for the record,
not an American citizen who bought the presidency for this man.

(15:56):
He's funding, you know, a lot of pieces he's defunded
the government while funding his own special projects through the government.
And members of Congress are right and the government funding him,
and members of Congress are standing by watching this happen
amidst you know, some of these angry town halls. Why
on earth would that be? And as you talk to
US Angela, I think it's also important to explain the

(16:18):
laws around it because this was a big part of
Citizens United. There used to be caps on how much
you could contribute to a member of Congress and individually
what I think it's twenty five hundred? Do I have
that wrong?

Speaker 5 (16:30):
Per yes? But but it's a five would you say no?

Speaker 4 (16:36):
No?

Speaker 5 (16:36):
No?

Speaker 4 (16:37):
The numbers may change, but you're right, there is a
cat As.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
An individual, I can only give five thousand total to
any candidate.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
There's a thing.

Speaker 7 (16:45):
Per ye, yes, per cycle for a primary and primary
if you know what, let me look because I'm trying
I was trying to look up something I don't I
actually don't want to go down this road because I
have like a lot on the special, but I want to.

Speaker 5 (17:00):
Let mean, since it was brought up, I'm going to
get the facts right. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I want
five thousand for a pack and it's different for individual.
I've bring that up. Yeah, but what's the individual federal
contract and contributed contriversial limit, federal.

Speaker 7 (17:14):
Contract primaria and in general?

Speaker 5 (17:20):
Yeah, okay, so producer visual and a pack can do
five thousand in the primary and five thousand and in
general for a total of ten. Course that's different. That's
an independent expenditure which brings us back to Citizens United
carry out.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yes, so super paid. I don't know if you all
could hear our producer Lolo off camera was given us
some good info. Thirty three hundred for an individual during
a cycle, five thousand for a political action committee and
when you know the Citizens United are ruling. I mean,
it essentially changed campaign financing and that is a huge
challenge in this country. That is a debate for another time.

(17:59):
But I wanted to introduced that so we could understand
why some of these people while you have private interests
controlling how our government functions.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, y'all will continue the conversation about special interests. Stay
tuned to see who else is so specially interested. We'll
be back after the breakdown.

Speaker 5 (18:31):
I just wanted to take a minute to look up
some of this, and so I want to use this
as a backdrop. This conversation for us came up today
because we were talking about the continuing resolution last week.
You all know I did a mini pod yesterday talking
about Schumer gotta go and laying out the reasons why

(18:52):
I think we get to a place in our body politics,
tiff and Andrew, where you literally can no longer hear
the voices of the people. It is drowned out by
the size of the contributions of your biggest donors. They
have direct access to you and your cell phone number.
They have your personal email address and at ben Yo
family's house for a barbecue. Your constituents have never had

(19:16):
that access to you or that point of privilege. These
are the kinds of things that make people completely jaded,
eyes glaze over. Me would bring up politics, It's like
this is never going to be a level playing field.
Why should we even get involved? I actually get that.
And I can say, as a former staffer who has
set up fundraisers for my bosses, who had to ensure

(19:37):
that we were talking to donors, there's a cooling off
period between when somebody can write a check and when
they can ask for something from a member of Congress.
But nevertheless they can still ask, and of course constituents
can too, but I can tell you from firsthand experience,
it is a different experience with the donor. It just is. Now.
I think what is potentially are particularly troubling to me

(19:59):
from last week, as we know in the Senate there
were ten Democrats who voted with Chuck or tintotal voting
with the Republicans, including Chuck Schumer who's the centimonority leader,
on this bill to keep the government open. And we
talked to government employees. They did not want the government
to stay open because we've all been arguing the government's
been shut down. They are abusing their power and waste,

(20:22):
broad abuses running rampant. Why are we even doing this
well special interests. So this is what I was able
to attain. I want to shout out our producer Lolo,
who sent this over to me, but I just want
to run through some of these really quick, and all
of them aren't bad, but I think it's important. Here
are the top donors from the folks who voted in

(20:43):
favor of the continuing Resolution last week. Despite what the
people said, which was overwhelming, we do vote against this thing,
so Senator Jean Shaheen, who is not running again. The
largest donor was Emily's list at one hundred and fifty
nine thousand dollars. That's New Hampshire, Yes, New Hampshire. Brian
Shatts of Hawaii Charter Communications. Senator Gary Peters of Michigan

(21:05):
University of Michigan, which I find fascinating his four hundred
five hundred thousand dollars, and I still think this might
be LOLO over the course of five years. But nevertheless,
it's important to understand. Senator Angus King, biggest donor American
Israeli Public Affairs Committee. That's a PAC independent he is,
but he caucuses with the dooms. Senator Maggie Hassen Emily's list.

(21:28):
Senator Dick Durbin Power Rogers LLP, which I assume is
a law firm in Illinois. Senator Catherine Cortez Vasto Emily's list,
Senator Kirsten Jillibrand Apak Senator Chuck Schumer Blackstone Group. Now,
I went to Chuck Schumer last week because I was like, no,
why what the Blackstone Group care about a shutdown? I'm

(21:50):
so glad you asked. Let me tell you why. So.
Blackstone Group is an asset management company that is also
an investment firm. I fill up this fortune piece. I'm
being accountable to our resident journalist, Tiffany d. Cross. The
title of this piece is Blackstone's seventeen billion dollar property

(22:11):
lending arm isn't giving up on its office bets. What
happened last Monday, y'all? Somebody tell me what happened last Monday.
I'm so glad you asked. Beteral workers had to go
back to work, which means they are in an actual
office building. When we're talking about one of their biggest

(22:34):
assets at Blackstone. We're talking about office buildings. Guess would
have been mostly vacant since twenty twenty. Office buildings. So
they're hedging their bets on people going back to work.
The fact that DOGE is doging and trying to shut
down all of these leases, trying to close down on property.
They know that he's going to make mistakes. Why because

(22:55):
he's made so many. But lo and behold, they're gonna
need office space. So black Tone is hedging its bets
on the federal government needing to rent office space. So anyway,
that is all I want to share. You look like
you got something to say, be it. I want to hear.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
We have some friends at Blackstone Group.

Speaker 5 (23:14):
I'm waited. I'm like call them out. You should. You
should actually say that on here because it goes right
to the heart of special interests and how people end
up walking blindly in their hypocrisy. So it is it
is we we would never be the type of show,
are the type of people that receive the donation and
therefore quiet the criticism. Y'all are on the wrong side

(23:37):
of the people diverse in all like special interests don't care,
you know what I mean? And I was also sick
because I didn't mean to go on this rampage job,
but I was sick looking at who a pack donated
to after something called Standing Strong Pack, which I'm going
to look up. They're top two recipients of a pack money,

(24:00):
Wesley Bell and George Latimer. That is, Corey Bush and
Jamal Bowman's.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Opponents who won, who unseated them, they outspent them so
significantly because Jamal and Corey don't take corporate pack money
or special interest pack money in this way.

Speaker 5 (24:19):
So this is the point when when you know that
you can, like you come from bottomless funds, and you
know that you can spend your way to victory, that
is an imbalance in democratic power that has to be
shifted and is why people wanted to shut this down
with the Citizens United case and why it was so

(24:39):
dangerous to say we're going to treat corporations as individuals. Yeah,
that's my ted talk and I didn't mean fred to
be that long.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
Well, let me let me I appreciate that, Angela. I
do think it's important for people to know follow the money,
you bollow the money. The truth is is that the
money oftentimes of many of these issues, it creates strange bedfellows.
You just mentioned going back to work and who might
be a benefic benefactor of that. Yes, the companies that

(25:06):
own the buildings that leases the space to the government
as an entity, so long as the government has a
policy that their workers have to be in that actual
edifice to still be employed by the government that is
good for, that is good for. How do you say,
I don't know the landlord, but guess who's also good for?
It's good for Muriel Bowser, the mayor of Washington d C.

(25:27):
Rial you may find them in joint community. I apologize
Mayor Bowser and who else might be in common cause
with Mayor Bowser and Blackstone on this? How about the
retail Association in Washington, d C.

Speaker 5 (25:43):
And retail side Andrew because they were trying to cut
her budget maurial billion dollars.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Muryo Bowser was in support. I'm speaking specifically about the
return to work policy, specifically about going back to work. No,
but I just wanted I wanted to break it down
in a for for listeners to understand that the issue
can create very interesting bedfellows. Now, would would Mayor Bowser

(26:11):
be in favor of passing this CR as they exempted
left out funding for Washington d C. Absolutely not right.
So she's not gonna be in common calls with them
on that. But but but but but they may find
common calls on an issue like this. The other thing
is side note, which is Emily's list, which was mentioned
a number of times by Angela as related to a

(26:32):
number of the women, I think exclusively the women members
of the Senate who were part of that ten. Well,
Emily's List doesn't tell the full story because Emily's List
basically takes money from anyone Andrew and so an individual
donor who might be just interested in in in Senator Shaheen,
but they don't want their names or their company's name

(26:53):
to appear as a supporter of hers. They say, oh,
I'll give the money to Emily's List, and what Emily's
List will do is then rewrite that money through its
own ways. I don't want to suggest an illegality here,
but essentially the name Emilies, this does not tell the
full story of where the money came from, whether or
not the candidate or the elected official knows where that

(27:15):
money came from. It's a more diluted picture. But this
is the big I think this is a big piece
that must be owned here, and that is that we
have a lot of our elected officials, both Democrats and Republicans,
to almost whole sale allow non disclosed money from corporations

(27:40):
to completely infuse itself into politics and their positions. And
I gotta say the nineteen nineties, the early nineteen nineties
in the Democratic associations that were outside of the party,
and then it became inside the party that existed. We're
largely in outreach and extension to the corporate arm of America.
It basically said, we'll bring you after so you can

(28:01):
produce cheaper products and sell them at higher prices, increasing
the profit margins of your companies. And what we'll do
is we'll we'll pass policies that is sympathetic and favorable
to you. And what happened in that collision, whereas their
business community used to be wholesale for Republicans because Democrats
didn't fight for them, so they said, became advocates for

(28:25):
both sides. It didn't matter to them Democrats or Republicans,
the business community by and large in the early nineteen
nineties made the conversion. And so as a result of it,
the people have been on one side of many of
these issues, and Democrats and Republicans have largely been together
on the opposite side of those issues. So free trade, yeah,

(28:46):
they yelling and screaming about it today, But people lost lives,
they lost businesses, they lost homes, communities lost populations, schools, children, children,
and you had wholesale communities experiencing depopulation. Well in American
jobs no longer around. So I'm just saying this problem.

(29:07):
Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, and you're probably
if you're a Republican, you may not be listening to
the sound of my voice was just fine. But I
just want to exclamation mark what doctor King tried to see,
tried for all of us to see, which is that
black folks, brown folks, and yes, working class white people
are in common cause with each other. But this is
economic issues.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Well, this is kind of a different question, but I
everything you guys are saying it keeps leading me back
to this question of can any system of capitalism serve us?
And I asked the question because Verdon Perry, he is
the global head of Blackstone, the Strategic Partners who you
were talking about the Investment Fund. He happens to be

(29:46):
a Morehouse College graduate. He is on the board of
trustees at Morehouse. He has put so much money into
Morehouse and has done great for the community. However, the
mechanism that's allowing him to do that is crushing the
community if they are funding you know, Leader Schumer, who

(30:06):
is not working in service to the people. So I
just wonder does this entire system ever service And that's
not to call out Burden, I hope I'm saying his
name for Burdoon Vernon, mister Perry. He's a very wealthy man,
and we are proud of you as an individual, brother,
so I'm not attacking you at all, but it does
It keeps bringing me to this question, does any system

(30:29):
of capitalism serve us as a people, particularly since so
much about the system of capitalism started on the plantation,
So I just wonder, is that even something that can
survive here? People keep saying, you know, private equity is
destroying America. I don't know enough about it to know.
I'd be curious to our audience, like explain it to me,
because I don't really know. But it also, you know,

(30:50):
it cancels jobs. It also creates jobs. But Wall Street
only exists because of our labor, and it's crushing all
of us. So I just wonder if we have so
much of that money.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
Our bodies right literally on top of our bodies.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
So if we have so much of those problems and
they are funding members of Congress who are not living
in service to our interests, I wonder does the entire
system need to be disrupted or blown up?

Speaker 5 (31:15):
Well, but here's the thing, and I do think we
should address this larger question about capitalism. And I hope
it's on another show, because if we could just lean
into the special interest part, I think the other part
is especially given like where we are in this social
media era. We live in this absolute black or white

(31:36):
space and it's like either you're with me all the
time or you're not. And I think that it feels
especially true right now because of how terrifying it is
to be living in this era in twenty twenty five
and or this administration. But the truth of the matter is,
even though right now I feel like Chuck Schumer should
face a different level of account ability given the severity

(31:58):
and the seriousness of seriousness of his vote, as well
as the other ten members, just like the folks who
voted against Algreen, Like, there's some there's some accountability conversations
that we have to have and if you can't align
with us, you need to be, you need to be,
you need to stub down. But if somebody's voting with
us eighty five percent of the time, I don't think
that we risk it all and go find somebody that, like,

(32:18):
we might get five more percent out of And I
don't think all of that is special interests. But like
when you're so out of lockstep with what the community
is saying, I think that's the time to do a
gut check around special interest I mean, I'm fine questions. Also,
go ahead, Andrew.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
Answer to your point. Just so, I'm sorry to exclamation market.
I don't think special interests in and of themselves are bad.
Are bad things neighborhood associations of special interests at the
local yeah, yeah, you have the the Black Chamber of
Commerce is a special interest at the local level. So
so special interests can be for good things sometimes and

(32:59):
sometimes I don't agree with.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
We're talking about with your special interests, the voices of
special interests impact is I know, but can trump the
people's power. That's when we have to rest like, well,
people are clear.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Agreed, go ahead, I agreed. I'm just saying I don't so.
First of all, there isn't a there's an issue where
you will find people on opposite sides on most things.
But I understand the point of outside. The reason why
I made the point around what common cause is for
a lot of people that you may have people who
philosophically agree with you, as you said ninety percent of

(33:38):
the time, who take exception on this issue or that issue.
That isn't that That isn't what I take issue with.
And I don't take issue with groups and special interests
in and of themselves my real beef because I think
special interests, Yes, they have power to an end, and
what is that end? That end is the elected officials
willingness to do it, to carry the water, to comply.

(34:01):
And so maybe these are twin issues, but I think
part of why we are where we are is absolutely yes,
special interest but I also believe it is the cowardice
of elected officials who make the choice to go against
what they ran on, maybe with their constituents might feel
and in their in their gut about how they should perform.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
Well, Andrew, can we do a quick I agree with you,
but can we do a quick kind of not experiment,
but maybe a reflection back to either your time as
a Talia Talahassee commissioner or mayor, or as a candidate
when you had to come face to face with special

(34:44):
interests as well. I remember a story about Emily's list,
which I thought is where you were going earlier. But
it's all good. There are some others. No, I didn't
want to there are some others, and I would love
for you to quickly, you know, take people into the
space in the world of that when they come to
you and say, you know, Andrew, we want you to
stand against charter schools, or Andrew, we need you to

(35:05):
stand with us. What Israel all the way? Or Andrew,
we need you to support this uh, and don't say
anything about this development project whatever it is? What what
were what were those conversations, like, you know, and what
are they saying? They're saying, we would love to support you,
gonna door knock for you, going to do this. We
expect you to be with us on what like tell
us about that and what? Yeah, I mean leaned into

(35:26):
your convictions because you're different in this. Everybody doesn't land
where you land. Some of them land where Chuck Schumer is.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Well, most people, I will tell you, special interests or
individual contributors, major contributors would never try to co locate
in their conversation with you that they're giving you money
for a certain thing.

Speaker 5 (35:46):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
In fact, I never went to people and and ask
their ask for their support for some special carve oute
that they may be for or against. In fact, I
mean the FBI deal that that came into my city
and targeted us locally, very specifically wanted to say, hey,
you know we we we like you, we think you're

(36:07):
a good god, we think of a good governor, but
we're mostly interested in your votes at the local level.
And I'm like, let me be very clear about this.
If you support me, you support me because I'm a
responsive elected official, that you know that I'm going to
vote my conscience and that I had to have a
forward looking and progressive view about what the future of
this state ought to look like. And if you want details,

(36:28):
we can go through it issue by issue, But I don't.
I don't want anybody's support contingent on the fact that
you think you're going to predict how I'm going to vote.

Speaker 5 (36:38):
Like that maybe going to be a predator. Andrew, what
do you think is the reason? And then Tim, I'm
gonna shut up with my question. What do you think
is the reason that some elected officials don't have that
same conviction around not being by like they don't mind
I've been in spaces like joint fundraisers we're members of
Congress will be like I'm this, I'm their dad, like

(37:00):
you know, literally, it feels like bot like I'm there.
I've never seen any times on Maxine Waters or please
do that ever, but I have been in space. Whatever
they need, they got no question there.

Speaker 4 (37:13):
Yeah, yeah, which is crazy, right, which is crazy. And
first of all, I mean, there's something to be said
for that. If you are a corrupt person and you
believe that that's like a badge of honor to wear,
there's a lot to be said there. But for most individuals,
I have to believe, first of all, the overwarming majority
of elected officials who I know, are not going to

(37:34):
stand up in no damn middle of the room and
talk about being anybody's proxy on this issue, that issue,
that issue, because of unless they're saying, you sent me
to DC voters, and because you sent me, you better
know you always have an opportunity to walk through my door,
sit down and have your grievance with me. And that's
what I've always said to you. Anybody can book a

(37:56):
meeting with me. My schedule is mayor and as commissioner
was easy because we took them from everybody. You didn't
need to be a contributed for that to happen. But
for a lot of people, especially special interests, most of
them by and large are when they are giving you
a money, what they are, what they're asking for is
access to you. They want to be able to reach

(38:16):
you when they need to. That's their clever way of
of of of of letting you be known and we
can rock with that.

Speaker 5 (38:23):
Those wait, wait one more, one more, you just foot
us in your answers. What was the balance for you
of people of constituents who had your cell phone number
versus donors or other supporters who had your cell phone
over the person everybody.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
I need to get rid of it? Well, overwhelmingly the
you know, overwhelmingly people right, people had it overwhelmingly because
I would get requests that my aid would just beg
me to please put an automatic message up that says
contact by aid for this is that. And the third
because because I lose some of it, she gets some
of it, and and ultimately she's gonna be the one

(38:58):
responsible because she controls account under but but but largely
business interests and special interests where the money lies right,
where the money raiser. Those are the people who who
I have to tell you are going to have the
most access to elected officials. Why because they're the ones
who show up at the fundraisers. They're the ones who

(39:21):
throw the fundraisers. They're the ones who have the pre
meeting setting up to the fundraiser, and they want you
to know that you're that your friendship with them has value,
a real value. But I got to tell you this, y'all,
on every issue that I stood for, fought against for
as as a mayor, as an elected official, the most

(39:41):
powerful constituency that ever showed up in the staff and
anybody on the opposite side of them always knew it
was going to be a fight if this happened. Is
when your chamber gets filled with people who say this
is the wrong thing to do. It doesn't matter how powerful,
or how friendly, or how much money you raise me
or any of that stuff from most selected officials. When

(40:01):
the people show up in the room, the people usually
win the day. The problem is, most selectors can count
on maybe one or two hands how often they've dealt
with an issue where the chamber was filled up with
people on one side, and business can name every other
nine of the ten issues where they have been in

(40:22):
the room on a particular issue. That's the balance.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
I just I want to take a minute to say
two things. One, I think elected officials like Andrew are
rare unfortunately, that's right, yeah, it I feel so much
rage in this country right now. I cannot even tell you.
And hearing you talk about Andrew like the kind of

(40:47):
mayor that you were, it makes me so upset because
I feel like our people are losing, and I think
we have to have a conversation about how do we
become our special interest how do we elevate our voice
this to be as powerful as these special interests groups.
Andree for you to say that so many people had
your mobile number, you know, I mean that's y'all know

(41:09):
how I am about my cell phone, Like I rarely
give it because I don't want to be responsible for
having to respond to a text. I want to be
horrible at it. For you to have this open door
policy with your constituents, right the open phone and open
door it is you just don't see that. And I
feel like when those people emerge, there is an effort

(41:31):
to silence, to take them out. So I'll say, Andrew
and I had a conversation. I'm gonna sound like a hypocrite.
I own it, but I sent Andrew some text and
he didn't respond, and to excuse me, I understand I'm
a hypocrite. Hypocrite here, Well, I just want the viewers

(41:55):
to know because at any point I can ask Andrew
any question.

Speaker 5 (42:02):
Two me so nuts, I can't. I can't have it.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
I can't have it. I'm one of those zero balanced people.
But I don't open things until I'm ready to respond
to them. I had a conversation with Andrew because last
week on the pod we talked about do our taxes
fund the government? And I referenced like no, but I
remember reading like taxes don't fund the government. And so
after the show, I went and looked at it and I,

(42:29):
you know, tried to read a few things and I
didn't understand it, and so I sent it to Andrew.
I'm like, and can you read this and maybe you'll
you'll understand it better. I can ask Andrew questions like Andrew,
what was the negotiating table after World War Two? Like
how did NATO even come to be? And like how
did that benefit us? And off the dome, Andrew, you
have an answer for me if I asked, well, what

(42:51):
was the time limit between World War One and World
War Two? What were the lessons that we took away
from that? Off the dome, Andrew will have an answer to.

Speaker 5 (42:58):
Find out he's Andrew Chaid GP. Yeah, honestly.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
But this is my point on just want me to
shut the hell up, because y'all are both like extra humble.
But my point to to Andrew is in domestic policy
foreign policy, like you are so gifted and so talented,
and I wish because if you've lived in Florida, then

(43:22):
you know, Andrew, Andrew still beloved in the state of Florida,
but outside people don't know the wealth of knowledge this
man has and the level of intellect that you bring
in terms of strategy and just in conversation. So I
just really appreciate that about you. And to hear how
open you were with your constituents it makes me so enraged.
And so then the other part of that is there

(43:44):
has to be a leveling of this playing field. And
my fantasy is we just erase this the government and
we start from scratch, We start from a blank wall,
and I want to empower people listening. What would democracy
look like if we were its architects, not just the
because we built the country, but if we were the
actual architects of what government looks like, and to tap

(44:07):
into our imagination in that way, and Andrew, you tapped
into your imagination and led with conviction and just thought,
this shouldn't be, so what if it wasn't or this
should be so what if it is? I don't think
right now we have leaders on Capitol Hill who are
prepared to lead with that level, who are supported enough

(44:30):
to lead at that level. But I do believe we
have millions of people across this country who at some point,
when this comes to knock on their front door, they're
going to be ready to pay attention. Special interests can
also be geopolitical. We have a lot of global interests.
Donald Trump has yielded to a lot of global.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
Interest right now, enlightening conversation, ladies, let's keep it going
right after the break, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
If I can take a few minutes, I want to
talk about some of the geopolitics because right now this
administration is in open defiance of the judiciary. Angela, you
have talked about constitution constitutional crisis. I think at this
point that this administration is an open defiance to the judiciary.

(45:27):
Then we have to acknowledge that there are no rules,
there is no functioning government, there are no three co
equal branches of government. This is an erosion the failure
of the media to treat this like oh, Trump's having
a disagreement with the judge. No, no, no, no no.
This is the erosion of what the framers intended. It's

(45:49):
an erosion of society as we know it. We talked
about my mood a little before. I think this punctuates
where we are as a country, and if you all
will permit me, I'd like to read this letter that
my mood Khalil he was a Palestinian activist at Columbia

(46:11):
University in New York. We talked about him being arrested.
The video is widely available online. For those of you
who are watching, you can see those images on the
screen now if you're listening. He was arrested by playing
closed ice agents while his wife looked on, and he
was quickly moved to various detention centers, so it was
hard for lawyers to keep up with him. And this

(46:34):
is what he says. The contents of the letter have
not been edited. It was dictated to an attorney, and
he says, my name is my Mood Khalil, and I
am a political prisoner. I'm writing to you from a
detention facility in Louisiana, where I wake the cold mornings
and spend long days bearing witness to the quiet injustices
underway against a great many people precluded from the protections

(46:56):
of the law. Who has the right to have rights?
It is certainly not the humans crowded into the cells here.
It isn't the Senegalese man I met, who has been
deprived of his liberty for a year, his legal situation
in Limbo and his family in ocean away. It isn't
the twenty one year old detainee I met, who stepped
foot in this country at age nine, only to be

(47:18):
deported without so much as a hearing. Justice escapes the
contours of this nation's immigration facilities. On March eighth, I
was taken by DHS agents who refused to provide a
warrant and accost it my wife and me as we
returned from dinner. By now, the footage of that night
has been made public. Before I knew what was happening,
agents handcuffed and forced me into an unmarked car. At

(47:41):
that moment, my only concern was for Nord's safety. I
had no idea if she would be taken too, since
the agents had threatened to arrest her for not leaving
my side. DHS would not tell me anything for hours.
I did not know the cause of my arrest or
if I was facing immediate deportation. At twenty six Federal Plaza,
I slept on the cold floor in the early morning hours.

(48:01):
Agents transported me to another facility in Elizabeth, New Jersey. There,
I slept on the ground and was refused a blanket
despite my request. My arrest was a direct consequence of
exercising my right to free speech as I advocated for
a free Palestine and an end to the genocide in Gaza,
which resumed in full force Monday night was January ceasefire.

(48:23):
Now broken, parents and Gaza are once again cradling two
small shrouds, and families are forced to waste starvation and
displacement against bombs. It is our moral imperative to persist
in the struggle for their complete freedom. I was born
in a Palestine, in a Palestinian refugee camp in Syria,
to a family which had been displaced from their land
since the nineteen forty eight Nakpa. I spent my youth

(48:45):
in proximity to, yet distant from my homeland, but being
Palestinian is an experience that transcends borders. I see in
my circumstances similarities to Israel's use of administrative detention imprisonment
without trial or charge to strip Palestinians of their rights.
I think of our friend Omar Katib, who is incarcerated
without charge or trial by Israel as he returned home

(49:07):
from travel. I think of Gaza Hospital director and pediatrician
doctor Hussam Abu Saphia, who was taken captive by the
Israeli military on December twenty seventh and remains in an
Israeli torture camp.

Speaker 5 (49:18):
Today.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
For Palestinians, imprisonment without due process is commonplace. I have
always believed that my duty is not only to liberate
myself from the oppressor, but also to liberate my oppressors
from their hatred and fear. My unjust attention is indicative
of the anti Palestinian racism that both the Biden and
Trump administrations have demonstrated over the past sixteen months. As

(49:41):
the US has continued to supply Israel with weapons to
kill Palestinians and prevented international intervention for decades. Anti Palestinian
racism has driven efforts to expand US laws and practices
that are used violently to repress Palestinians, Arab Americans, and
other communities. That is precisely why I'm being targeted. While
I await legal decisions that hold the futures of my

(50:03):
wife and child in the balance, those who are enabled
those who enabled my targeting remained comfortably at Columbia University,
President Shaffik Armstrong and Dean Yari Milo laid the groundwork
for the US government to target me by arbitrarily disciplining
pro Palestinian students and allowing viral dosing based on racism
and disinformation to go uncheck. Colombia targeted me from my activism,

(50:28):
creating a new author authoritarian disciplinary office, the bypass due
process and silence students criticizing Israel. Columbia surrendered to federal
pressure by disclosing student records to Congress and yielding to
the Trump Administration's latest threats. My arrests the expulsion or
suspension of at least twenty two Columbia students some strip

(50:49):
of their BA degrees just weeks before graduation, and the
expulsion of the SWC President, Grant Minor, on the eve
of contract negotiations are clear examples. If anything, my detention
is a testament to the strength of student movement in
shifting public opinion toward Palestinian liberation. Students have long been
at the forefront of change, leading the charge against the

(51:11):
Vietnam War, standing on the front lines of the civil
rights movement, and driving the struggle against apartheid in South
Africa Today too, even if the public has yet to
fully grasp it, it is students who steer us towards
truths and justice. The Trump administration is targeting me as
a broader strategy to suppress dissent. Visa holders, green card carriers,

(51:31):
and citizens alike will all be targeted for their political
beliefs in the weeks ahead. Students, advocates, and elected officials
must unite to defend the right to protest for Palestine.
At stake are not just our voices, but the fundamental
civil liberties for all. Knowing fully that this moment transcends
my individual circumstances, I hope nonetheless to be free to

(51:54):
witness the birth of my firstborn.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
Childful, powerful, powerful, powful, I mean on on his merits,
Tiffany and Angela. Ah, what's happening is is wrong as
it relates to protest on campuses and and the impact
on this family. Uh, you know, my prayers, My prayers

(52:16):
go up and out for them. But the warning that
he so generously offers there at the end for the
rest of us is one that cannot go unnoticed. When
Ron DeSantis in Florida decides to criminalize protests because a

(52:37):
group of students disagree with a state position, When Donald
Trump says that he is going to go after students
who protests on the issue of of of of of
Israel and Palestine, and this in this unjust war, when
when administrations, government and private sector entities decide that they

(53:00):
are no longer going to defend the people who are
in their care who they have responsibility for, and willingly
give over contact information, names, addresses, don't track down on
them being docked on the internet, so people can go
to their homes and do even worse things. Y'all. It's
been said before. It may not be us today, but

(53:22):
we see the outlines of what this thing looks like.
Just insert community. That's the only thing that needs to change. Yes,
immigrants who may be here in the country without proper
documentation might be a tinge more vulnerable, but I wouldn't
say much more vulnerable, because they have rights. Even if
you are here without proper documentation, they have us rights

(53:43):
to the system for due process regardless. Well, you're full
a citizen, you got due process rights too. Yes, that's true.
But what happens when the institution's private and public who
are supposed to keep your information private, decide to hand
it right on over to an authoritarian leader. What happens
when the government that it's going to stop being your
protector and you're champion, and turn against you and incarcrate

(54:04):
your ass and then force you to make the proof
to get out. It can happen to any one of us.
And it's outrageous for any of us to think otherwise.
That we cannot because we're American citizens, we cannot find
ourselves in this exact predicament on the right issue, On
the right issue, we just on the right issue of
which we take exception or disagree with this administration. We

(54:28):
then find ourselves on the other side of the law.
They are creating the foundation for that to happen right now.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Right now we are in We're not on the precipice
of anything anymore here. So how long before they come
knocking at your door?

Speaker 5 (54:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Because you protested? How long before they come knocking at
your door? Angela? Because you organize things? How long before
they come knocking at your door?

Speaker 5 (54:54):
Again?

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Andrew to target you? I can't every second of every fuck.
I'm on the verge of a breakdown, and it's frustrating
because I don't think people really know what's going on.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
And you know it, Tiffany, to the extent that we
do know, how many of us, in our everyday lives
try to avert our eyes from the crisis that we're
dealing within our own personal lives because we just want
to survive. So if we think we ignore it, or
if we turn away and we don't pay attention, we
don't open that piece of mail, we don't open that email,
we don't open that we don't take that phone call,

(55:30):
that that thing is going to go away. I get
how easy it is for all of us to avert
our eyes because we just can't.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Did ignorance is bliss.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
It is.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
It is easier if right, and so you don't have
the Ignorance is bliss. Ignorance is also privileged.

Speaker 5 (55:46):
It is a luxury that nobody can afford.

Speaker 4 (55:49):
And I think, what do they say in Wicked the
song versus It's life is fraud, basically saying the more
informed you are, the more you care, the more problems
that you have, And so it's life is frautless to
be thoughtless. Yes, life is without its issues to subtract.

(56:11):
So when you subtract from the knowing, but that that
that only makes it true in your own imagination. It
ain't you in real being.

Speaker 5 (56:19):
But I don't remember where I was going because I
was like a wicked because I was thinking about Kiki.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
I'm sorry my kids.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Well, when you put head to pillow tonight, I would
ask you to think of my mood, Khalil and all
the others in need, right, don't look away. Think of
all the others who are sleeping on concrete floors with
no mattress, pillow blanket, and crowded cells. Think of all
the others who were shipped off on a plane. Think

(56:49):
of your children. Imagine if somebody came and got your
twenty year old child who all they know is America
and ship them off to a country where they may
not even speak the language and they were being treated
as a criminal. That is what is happening to thousands
of people, and that is what can happen to any
of us at any second. We're living in a society

(57:09):
that is questioning birthright citizenship.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
Literally that the president is acting. They said he's gearing
up for the fight with the Supreme Court. So I
just I think that it isn't coming upon us to
not look away.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
It is.

Speaker 5 (57:23):
To really ask ourselves the most basic and fundamental question.
If your people are getting slaughtered and you consciously object,
should you really be facing imprisonment? Should you be facing deportation?
Should you be shipped to Guantanamo Bay? You know, like

(57:44):
are we serious Salvador or wherever? Yeah, you know, put
up in hotel rooms with no no, no, none of
the luxuries, just housed and held and detained.

Speaker 4 (57:55):
You know, I just I think, and worse off not
knowing where you're gonna get caught in this win is
system going to catch me from this unperilous you know,
this perilous call when.

Speaker 5 (58:06):
You know my centers and I was not going into
I thought that we're not in.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
The same place. Okay, we start, we're not in the
same place. I want to apologize, Angela, I didn't know
you were still going and I apologize.

Speaker 5 (58:18):
It's okay, finish your point and then I'll come around
to my point.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
I know I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop. I can't
keep going because I now I know that I interrupted
you and he ain't.

Speaker 5 (58:28):
Said, but I am. I think that when we contextualize
most of what our conversation was today in terms of
special interests, we have to we have to resist the
urge to not just be mad at the fact that
it's big money with outsize influence. I think that we

(58:49):
have to go a level deeper and determine what that
outsized influence costs the people. There's a difference. What we're
talking about here is we talked about APEX. We know
that their outside influence is costing the lives of Palestinian people.
It's costing the elections of people who vote with their conscience. Frankly,

(59:13):
it is muting the conscience of people who we know
and love. And I think that that is a really
good point for us to say, there has to be
a fundamental shift because we can't be so quiet by
the special interest dollars, their outsize role, that we will
turn a blind eye to fascism, that will turn a
blind eye to the democracy that we say that we

(59:34):
hope for, that will look at everything we said leading
up to the twenty twenty four election and pretend like
that isn't in fact the case while we're watching this
mandesimate agencies that support our people that have not balanced
the scales, but like kind of made it a little
more fair. And I'm not suggesting to your point earlier
tip of like as capitalism service. I don't really know,

(59:55):
but I know what we have, and I know the
game we're supposed to play. The rules that we're planned
by now don't even we don't even qualify for them.
They're not even available to us. They are literally developed
developing a system where we are locked out completely. And
I think whether we work in those companies and we've

(01:00:15):
been promoted in those companies and where the figurehead of
those companies, or we have the power in those companies,
if being in that role means that you have to
support interests that antagonize your community, you're in the wrong place.
Even if you gave the biggest philanthropic donation, if it
is going to support some folks that are literally suffocating

(01:00:39):
us in our rights, Nah, that's just a bridge too far,
not in this era. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Well, I you know, we talked about feeling despair last week,
and I have to be honest, I still feel despair.
I mean that letter. When I read that letter this week,
it just leveled me. It's crushed me, and my spirit
feels crushed, and so I don't really know how to
crawl out of this. But I think every day this
despair is turning to righteous anger, and it is making

(01:01:11):
parts of my heart turn the stone, you know, where
I have no empathy for people who did this. I
have no sympathy for people who did this.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
I look at them in absolute, utter disgust, and I
think be crushed under the bullshit you voted for. Oh
that's how I feel more and more. Yeah, yeah, And
I think before there was a version of me that
had compassion, that didn't want to see anybody suffer, you know,
But when I see what they enacted and unleashed, now

(01:01:46):
I'm not gonna lie. I just kind of feel like,
fuck you, but you know you and live in it and.

Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
Sit in it and die in it. Wow. So, Tif
and Andrew, if you're just now seeing like we imagined
it would go this farce, think a little bit, but
we're just now seeing it for real. There's a group,
a focused group of voters who they've talked to at
a Michigan who voted for Trump, a lot of them
with deep regrets that that was onolder shrug on air.

(01:02:12):
So but I guess this is my question if they
really didn't know and now they're like, how did they
not know? I don't know. I really don't know the
answer this. I don't understand why they don't know. But
I think it's the same way that people in communities
everywhere don't know there's an election, or don't know who's running,
or don't know who's different.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
So that to me is different. Yes, I can understand
if a system has never served you. I can understand
that you are not that aware of it. But you
didn't know about January sixth. No, you didn't see this, man,
I can't believe that. Oh, I really you think there
are people who don't know January sixth happened?

Speaker 5 (01:02:48):
Absolutely let's go for absolutely. There are some people where
January sixth, at the what happened on the Capitol on
January sixth, twenty twenty one, Absolutely and they have.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Now it might be people who agree with it, but
you're saying there are people who literally have no idea
that January sixth, I haven't heard of it. You all
get mad when I see people are dumb. Those people
are dumb.

Speaker 5 (01:03:10):
They I may not be done, they're not exposed the communities,
but there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Has to be a level of willful ignorance to not
know that there was a coup happening in this country
that you didn't see thousands of people storm the capital
to try to overthrow the government. I think that transcended
every media outlet, every everything that can penetrate your willful ignorance.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
That was one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
You didn't know that Donald Trump was president before, you
didn't know the disaster that that was.

Speaker 5 (01:03:40):
I think there are people in communities that I'm getting
exposed war and more to every day that do not
know Donald Trump's first administration, did not know the second one,
and they didn't vote, never have voted.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Those people like you specifically about people who are like
what what do you mean January sixth? I don't know
what that is.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
They some of these people don't know about January sixth.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
I've never come across as a person, but I got
a beef with us.

Speaker 5 (01:04:07):
Don't have beef. Let's go educate them so that they
know even where to find out about it. Don't know,
don't know what. I don't know what is? Don't those people?

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Of course I think I talked. I probably have some
sort of I touch those people probably on a daily basis.
So those people like those.

Speaker 5 (01:04:25):
Are the people I think of and why I can't
say forget it if y'all crushed under this system, Because
if those people who willfully did it are crushed under
the system, these people that I'm talking about will be absolutely,
absolutely obliterated under the system.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
The only people right now that I have space for
in my heart are.

Speaker 5 (01:04:46):
My people.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Regardless of what my people, I want to build safety
work towards harm reduction for my people. Beyond that, proactive
allies who are actively trying to do something to help
and not necessarily with us, I mean, actively do something
to help in your group chats, in your families, in
your communities, correcting these half witted idiots who did this

(01:05:13):
to us because we voted for your rights too. I
have space for them and empathy for them. For the
people who are out here cheering on January sixth, performing
at the Kennedy Center. For the people who are out
here wearing these dumb ass maga hats, For the people
who are out here shouting for Derek Fielding to be pardoning.
For the people who are out here watching Fox News

(01:05:34):
every day like a bunch of armchair idiots. I could
give a shit about them. I understand that I'm not
trying to have a bounce of empathy for them. I
feel bad for them because I don't know how they
got there. But I'm not talking about them.

Speaker 5 (01:05:46):
I'm talking about people who literally are so detached from
government and from systems at every level. Andrew, I don't
want to overtuch.

Speaker 4 (01:05:58):
I appreciate the invitation. I got to tell you that
I can't see Yall's face and facial clearly, I couldn't
tell no, no, no, no, no, you may I'm where
I am the backgrounds of y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Uh Angela and I have the privilege of being in
the same space today. We are proudly broadcasting from Roland
Martin studio shout out to Row Row after Roland Martin,
and you all know, I love when I get to
be in the same space as my co host, But
poor Andrew is.

Speaker 5 (01:06:29):
The reason.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
It is different when we're all in the same space.
So if you all keep listening, we'll get to be
in the same space every year. Expression I think we
were facing each other, so he just couldn't see it
on the screen. But anyway, Andrew, please just that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
I apologize for the interruption.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
We'll make your point because we're but I want to know.
Go ahead, go ahead, Andrew.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
That's no, I don't have a point. You yielded to me,
but I don't have a point. I'm really absorbing what
you're saying, and I'm trying to understand the limits of
my compassion as well. And I think the frustration that
I have are likely for folks who have the ability
to vote, haven't been hindered really in any real way

(01:07:17):
with that, and still don't make the effort to know
enough about what government is doing to assess how you
are impacted by it. So, for instance, a lot of
people are going to lose access to healthcare as a
result of this Republican budget, a lot of people with

(01:07:37):
kids who are special needs, under the shift that this
administration plans to take with the Department of Education unchecked
by anybody and any other branch of government, are going
to move onto their monthly budget lines new expenses for
the care of their children that they have never before

(01:07:58):
had to bear. The brunt of for families who are
experiencing what it means to transition your parents into retirement
and into elderly systems that are there to help support
them in retirement. Good luck when we look up and
we see that the retirement that is supposed to be

(01:08:22):
promised to our seniors who report into this system are
now at a point where don't cover much of anything,
and don't even get me started on the healthcare access
that they have. And as the price of things continue
to go up, and the government then caps the amount
of the contribution that each one of these recipients receive,
what is it sixty percent of seniors are on Medicaid,

(01:08:43):
Medicare they're getting with no other subsidized health insurance. So
when those caps kick in, it is it big frustration.
I dealt with this as an elect official, where people
come knocking on your door once the crisis hits them.
But every one of the three hundred and sixty five
days that on the local news this thing was mentioned,

(01:09:04):
and the meetings were held and the rallies were held,
nobody looked up to check the symptoms. Nobody looked up
to see how they were going to be impacted. And
so I don't know that I have hard limits right now,
because I just I like to give chances. But my
frustration really does sit there that it isn't until it ain't,
not that it crawled up your doorstep, not that it

(01:09:26):
knocked on your door, but until it is sitting with
you in the living room that you decide that I'm
going to wake up and pay attention to how we
got here, and by that point, good luck in being saved.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
On that note, we are over time. I'm so happy
you made that point, Andrew. I think those were profound
words because that's kind of how I feel. But we
have some calls to action. Gonna go last, because I

(01:10:01):
will give you a heads up. My call to action
is not political good.

Speaker 5 (01:10:06):
I'll go first. I think.

Speaker 4 (01:10:10):
One.

Speaker 5 (01:10:10):
I have taken so much comfort in the last several
weeks and being linked arm to arm with my people.
We did a State of the People marathon a few
weeks back, and just the relationship building process since then,
really connected with people on text who I admire and
now get to text with and share ideas with. Kimberly

(01:10:34):
Crenshaw sending me, you know, incredible like deep dives on
her thoughts. Just it's just really really dope. And I
am so grateful that our folks are not just like
the hell it ain't know what we can do, Like
we don't even have it in us. It's like we
are going to fight. If we lose this fight, we
over here doing this fight. So I think that my
call to action to y'all is simply this, it's don't

(01:10:58):
give up. It is even if you don't find the
strength to fight today, just yoke up with somebody else
who's fighting. I guarantee you if you don't have the
strength to fight, you still will have the idea. If
you don't have the idea today, you probably don't have
it tomorrow. So I would just say, please, don't give up,
and if you have ways that we should be fighting,

(01:11:19):
DM them to us. I got an incredible DM from
a sister who I hope will send in a video.
Who's we even talking about getting videos in from the
podcast or to the podcast. She had a really dope
idea that I would love to talk about on this show.
So Hopeully, we'll get this idea anyway. Don't give up
the fight and keep these ideas comfortle nice ten is nice.

Speaker 4 (01:11:40):
I think my takeaway would be, you know, how we
all grew up with certain sayings, some of us grew
up with certain traditions, even certain expectations around in this case,
how you're supposed to be treated by government and by institutions.
You walk into a place and you know you're not
going to have a positive experience because as a child,
you remember walking into that same office in the same place,

(01:12:01):
and you're not having a positive experience. I would just
ask us to not create our default position to then
be the exact thing that we experienced or somebody else
we know experienced generations ago, that that shouldn't be our
automatic setting, That our automatic setting really needs to adjust

(01:12:24):
to our level of expectation that they will perform, because
I think a lot of us are we don't expect
much from a from an institution when you haven't felt
like you've gotten much from it. But simply because you
haven't gotten much from it doesn't mean that the status
quo position ought to be that I'm not gonna get

(01:12:46):
much from this. Maybe your expectations have to raise. And
then when you walk into that space or in that
place and you make that call, and you're making it
from a position of glass half full of full versus
one empty to lower empty, I promise you the receiving
end of that gets a different message from you. When

(01:13:07):
I go into my children's school and they know we
come in, and they see us coming up in there,
the expectations that we have, they know are going to
be at a level that your rudimentary this thing won't
work that okay, uh huh, sure go later. Now we
have a greater expectation than that. And I just I
would ask us to interrogate the things that we assume

(01:13:29):
are going to work out a certain way, because that's
how they always work out. To interrogate that further, to
see if we couldn't put on a different hat, a
different disposition, a different set of expectations to make that
thing work out our way. Because I fear in politics
that a lot of it is is our default is
we have no expectation. And when you ain't got no expectation, Yes,

(01:13:50):
the worst is is gonna be the worst, and the
worst is what it is. But when you go in
there with it and you act like it a different
you're gonna they're gonna meet a different version of you.
And I getarantee, I think you'll meet a different version
of the thing you want on the other side of that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Walk in it all right, I'll be really quick way
over time. I just want to say, the only thing
these days that seem to give me a piece of
joy is when I get to touch a dog. When
I get to make out with a dog, it gives
me a piece make out with a dog, I do
mean make out with these dogs.

Speaker 5 (01:14:24):
I just want to make sure there are people. I
just want to take a quick production time out. Bitch.
It's the same ship as Andrew last week. There's such
thing called dog best reality is a time. This is Angela.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
People who love dogs know what I mean. Angela talk
about the best reality with the dog when on Fox, remember.

Speaker 4 (01:14:48):
Tiffany coming and you got a pet, pick it up
and run.

Speaker 5 (01:14:52):
First.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
But the podcast go ahead, fine, y'all can leave all
of that in because people know when I make out like,
I don't mean can I pet your dog? I mean
I'm gonna get on the floor and cradle your dog,
and your dog, will you kiss me? You know I
don't kiss dogs in the mouth, but I guess sometimes.
We went to Angela and I went to our friend
Joy's house, and she has a pit bull and an

(01:15:14):
other little mix, and I just I was in heaven.
I was in heaven with these dogs. So I say
all that to say, she's trys. I say all that
to say, if you are somebody who is keeping your
pet tied up outside, or your neighbors are keeping their
pets tied up outside, shame on you. Dogs are not
lawn furniture. If you are cold outside, they are cold outside.

(01:15:37):
If you don't like getting wet in the rain, they
don't like getting wet in the rain. Please don't be
a shitty human being and treat animals poorly. Treat animals
like you would want to be treated, and they deserve.
If you can't take in a pet and treat that
pet well in your home, then you don't deserve to
have one.

Speaker 5 (01:15:55):
And that is all I meant. Animal dogs, not humans.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
Like I don't want to make out with no human
that act like a dog. I've done that too many times.

Speaker 5 (01:16:06):
I was trying to offer a warning and didn't mean
for her to take the bait. You heard it here first, y'all.
If this ends up on Fox, those kind of dogs,
stay ahead of life. Welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
As always, we want to remind everyone to please leave
us a review and subscribe to Native Land. Please you guys,
subscribe because then I get to see my co host
in person every week and I would love, love, love that,
And I know you all complained about the cross talk
and if we were in person, there would be a
lot less of that. Thank you very much. We're available
on all platforms that is, and also YouTube, and new
episodes dropped every Thursday and Friday, and please be sure

(01:16:48):
you're listening to these solo pods on Monday and Tuesday.
And if you need even more, be sure to check
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Off the Cup the other shows on Reason Choice Media Network.
And also please don't forget to follow us on social
media and describe to our text or email list, and
you can do that by visiting our website native Land

(01:17:10):
dot native landpod dot com. We are Tiffany Cross, Angela
ri and Andrew Gillum. Welcome home, y'all. There are five
hundred and ninety three days until a midterm election if
we in fact have them.

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):
Oh, all right, that's the way to do it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
Morning see.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Thank you for joining the natives attention to what the
info and all of the latest rock gulum and cross
connected to the statements.

Speaker 4 (01:17:33):
That you leave on our socials.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
Thank you sincerely for the patients reason for your choices clear,
so grateful it took to execute, road for serve, defend
and protect the truth. Even in pace.

Speaker 4 (01:17:45):
We'll walkme home to all of the natives wait. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Native land Pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership
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Tiffany Cross

Andrew Gillum

Angela Rye

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