January 20, 2025 • 53 mins
Michelle Obama will not be attending Trump’s inauguration. If he truly believes Trump is a threat to democracy, shouldn’t Barack also bail? And why are we seeing Barack and Trump kiki??
On this MLK day, our hosts Angela Rye, Tiffany Cross, and Andrew Gillum reflect on the legacy of Martin Luther King Jr. and his dream for racial equality and liberation. In a fitting start to what promises to be a tumultuous year, the holiday falls on the same day as Trump’s inauguration.
If you’d like to submit a question, check out our tutorial video: www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/
Welcome home y’all!
—---------
We want to hear from you! Send us a video @nativelandpod and we may feature you on the podcast.
Watch full episodes of Native Land Pod here on YouTube.
Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.
Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:
Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
Theme music created by Daniel Laurent.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Lampard is the production of iHeartRadio and partnership with
Reisent Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome. For every mountain side, let freedom ring. And
when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we
let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from
every state and every city, we will be able to
(00:28):
speed up that day with all of God's children, black
men and white men, jos and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics
will be able to join hands and sing in the
words of the old Negro spiritual Free at last, pre
ad Last, Thanks God Almighty, we are pre Admas Well.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Welcome home, everybody.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
This is a very special edition of the Native Land
Podcast because it is Martin Luther King Day.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Nothing else important is happening today.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
All we care about is the dream that doctor King
once had that appears to be coming in the form
of a nightmare.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
On this very day.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
But I won't say what that nightmare is. I'll allow
my calls to do that. I'm answer the rhy.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
I'm here with Tiffany Cross and Andrew Gillim.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
You guys, what could possibly be ruining doctor King's dream
for America.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Today, Well, I just want to say just really quick
back and I love that we came into doctor King's
word free at last, Free at last, because that and
Angela is gowned appropriately in her MLK gear today, because
that really is had such credo to black folks. That
is what we have, It is our birthright, it is
(01:44):
what we arrived in this country seeking. You know, we
were free beings who were kidnapped, rates have the humanity
beat out of us, and so for so long in
this country we have sought freedom. And so to hear
those iconic words every year, I still get goose bumps.
I still I remember when The Cosby Show did a
special episode and they played those words.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
It just it means so much to me.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So my honor and respect to the King family today
and your work and your sacrifice. Special shout out to
doctor Burneath King who stay woke and stay out there
carrying on her father's legacy.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
It is striking Angela.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I'm heartbroken that inauguration is taking place on Mlkday because
the Republican and conservative right wing MAGGA extremists are so
skilled at co opting his words and perverting them to
promote ideas, ideals and ideology that he did not stand for.
(02:45):
They always cherry pick his language when really he has
some pretty quote unquote woke language out there and holds
a lot of conservative white people to account, and they
never play those So I'm disgusted that inauguration is has
taking place today.
Speaker 6 (03:01):
It's heartbreaking.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
Yeah, it is the worst kind of oxymoron, Andrew. I'm
eager to hear what our resident diplomat has to say
about this horrific occasion on such a very special day
moday that we had to fight for, by the way,
even fight John McCain, who I probably would prefer being
inaugurated at this point.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
If he was.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
You know what, I appreciate one about MLK Day, but
Martinuther King and the civil rights movement and struggle, the
struggle toward our collective liberation, and it didn't start at
the Civil rights movement. It dates back back, back, far back.
And what I know is true about it is that
the words, the hymns, the prayers prayed from then to
(03:47):
now have always been aspirational. They've never been just about
the moment that we're in. And I think for survival purposes,
our ancestors had to project bright the future, a day
of freedom, a day when we could decide, a day
when there'll be no more sorrow, no more pain. You know.
(04:11):
I just think about the songs and the hymns that
carried us over, the speeches, the words, the poems that
have carried us have almost always always spoken truth to
what the moment is, and then try to take us higher,
try to take us, lift us out of our grief
into a higher plane. And so I'm acknowledging this day
(04:34):
as another one of those days that while reality may
feel bleak, while on one screen we might have the
Devil incarnate and his crew about to take the helm,
we also still have the example of Doctor King, of
our freedom, fighters, of our movement, leaders, of our ancestors.
(04:57):
To put our attention on something higher. And I really
I'm clasping to that, y'all, because the right now can
feel really defeated. The right now, this moment can feel
like a letdown. It can feel like god Lee, I
thought we had made so much progress and today feels
like a complete and total throwback. And it does. But
(05:21):
I also know that progress is almost always followed by
this kind of a reflexive verberation, and then in a
few years, be they two, be they four. You know,
we whiplash the next direction, and all kinds of progress
(05:42):
can be made. I just think for me, I'm making
it by lifting up out of what's today and embracing
what's today for the future.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Well, my neck urge from whiplash, so hopefully we don't
have to keep doing it. Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
American struggle, the Black Americans.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
Struggle, especially black and I'm just am tired. I would
like to if we can't, speaking of Black Americans, go
into something that we talk about often and ask who
all gonna be there? And so Andrew's talking about a
throwback talk about My argument is that you are our
resident Barack Obama, uh, and Tiffany is our resident Michelle Obama,
(06:23):
not because y'all married, but because this is these are
the two houses in which y'all sit. I feel like
I don't think so okay, well let's see, because I
feel like you had the biggest argument for why Joe
Biden should have invited Donald Trump into the White House, whereas.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
The Boss should have I should have What do you
mean I don't have an argument about that? Period. To
be quite honest, I know it came fiercely down, but
I thought presidents have for traditional purposes this symbolic after
(07:02):
the election passing of the torch, we're leaving and you're
coming in. And it didn't to me read as a
complete and total collapse of of I don't know protocol.
It's just okay, well that's.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
What I understood you to be saying, Andrews. So I
want you to correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Is that yes, that that is the people elected Donald Trump,
and it is protocol for the president to invite him
to the White House, and that should happen. That should
not be disrupted just because we don't like the election results.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Do I Well, fundamentally, I don't think they're different. I
just said I didn't bring I would not make an
argument Joe Biden, you how to invite such and such
and such and such. I'm also not going to lay
down on the train tracks over him having done so
by keeping with tradition, we just ran a race about democracy,
the the need to not change our opinions on what's
(08:04):
right based off of who gets elected.
Speaker 6 (08:06):
But people should go to inauguration.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
No, I wouldn't encourage people to go.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I'm sorry, I don't mean people like gen pop presidents
sit on that dais and watch him be sworn in.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I think former presidents can choose to do that and
keeping with the tradition and the peaceful transfer. I, however,
believe that their wives, family members, or anybody else is
obligated to the same. Michelle Obama never took an oath
of office to the United States of America. I want
(08:43):
to buy. The reason why that's important to me is
because we should have a bifurcation of a bifurcation should
exist between what are these traditions that are held because
of constitutional purposes and then individuals who just make a choice.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
I don't know what the Constitution says about presidents being
invited former presidents being invited to the oval or especially
when they're threats to democracy, or what it says about
presidents having to attend inauguration.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I've never seen that.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
But I guess what I'm curious about before we get to.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
The whyll transfer?
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Okay, how do you peacefully transfer power to someone who
you say is a threat to democracy.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
By keeping with the traditions of the office that inert
to the same which is, you know what, we win
this election. We competed. The election is now over. There
is one president at one time, and that will be
that son.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Another tradition is the vice president normally invites the incoming
vice president to the Naval Observatory for a tour so
they can see where they'll be residing before they take office.
Kamala Harris did not do that.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, I think we Kama Harris provided presided vice president.
Kamala Harris provided over the opening of the electoral vote
and the counting of the electoral votes in the authentication
process of the man who defeated her in the race
for the presidency. As far as I'm concerned, she has
(10:19):
hailed with the traditions of her office, and.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
That's not true, right.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
I just I think that she didn't that is her
constitutional responsibility success. I'm sorry I didn't say anything about
her presiding over the Senate. I was.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
That's what I said, because that's what I think is important.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
I understand.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I don't care about the visit.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I understand.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Okay, so that's what I'm curious about. I don't know
why you're you don't care about that visit, but you
do care about the other visit.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I didn't care about the other visit either, you did.
I just happened to disagree with your conclusion.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well, Andrew, I get the point that you're taking because
you're you're I think what you're saying is, I'm not advocating.
I'm not out there like Joe Biden, you better invite
don Trump. But the fact that he did, You're like, okay,
that that is traditional.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
So this is to me, this.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Gets to the heart of the conversation, because yes, it
is tradition, that is what happens. And what I think
Angela and I are saying is but he is a threat.
He himself is a threat to democracy. I think the
question that's more philosophical than it is political, is that
is how we feel what happens when a Democrat gets
(11:30):
elected and they say this democrat is a threat to democracy.
Not that any of us are mouthpieces for the party,
but there were people who felt like President Obama was
a threat to democracy. There were people who felt like
President Biden was a threat to democracy. There are people
who would have felt had Vice President Kamala Harris become
president elected, that she would have been a threat to democracy.
(11:50):
So in keeping with that, and I don't think these
are I think it is a false equivalency to talk
about what republicans and how they are a threat to
democracy andmocrats. So I'm not trying to compare the two,
but I think it gets to the heart of the
question of how much do we want to play by
the rules here in anticipation that one day the vowels
(12:12):
of power will shift and the expectation that we.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
Have right as they always do.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I got it.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
I'm like, go the rules out right. That is the thing.
People presuppose that this is just a normal time.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Republicans in our office is going to be bad four
years and I'm saying, ring the alarm, this is not normal.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
I say, throw out the rules. That's what they did.
They threw out the rules.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
They just decided this is not it. They treated it
like the pixie dust it is. So my thought is,
let's imagine this democracy as a blank slate. F you inauguration.
I'm not going to if I'm President Obama, I ain't
about to sit it you inauguration on MLKA. Then I
want my daughters to know I stood up on this
day and said if that I ain't there.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
The way Obama. I know he won't, but but it'd
be different to me if Obama, as in the first case,
were transitioning the presidency from himself to mister Trump. He did.
He showed up, as did Michelle. She was very much
so not happy to be there. We could all read
that on her face and demeanor, right, But he, as
(13:18):
far as I'm concerned, held to his part of the bargain.
Trump and his loser ass attitude didn't have what was
required to do the same for his successor, and all
I'm guys the reason why. So first of all, let
me finish this point. So, as far as I'm concerned,
previous presidents who are not the current sitting office holder
(13:40):
are free to do whatever it is they want to
do there. They are no law. They are not a
threat to democracy because they no longer attend the inaugurations
of the party they disagree with. That's that's that's a
that's a fair choice. I came down, however, on the
side of if you are the sitting president and your
pat and you are transitioning between administrations, that we have
(14:01):
to we have to show that there can be some
reconciliation here, because, like your point and I don't mean reconciliation,
like we all agree and we're we're holding hands on
and skipping in whatever down the stage. But this is
what it sets us up for. If we can just
decide we don't like the person, and therefore we no
longer have to respect any of the rules are guard rails,
(14:23):
the same will happen to us, and so on and
so forth, and so on and so forth. And I
think what's been what what there is about this democracy
that is defendable is that at the end of the day,
we don't have to torch the country because we lost
in a transaction of an election, all right, got to
(14:46):
that's that's that's, that's it. And I get that there
is a sentiment to throw out all the rules, to
buck into this and the say f you, and let
that message be resounding. And I find myself terified of
the consequences of that when it comes down on us.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I'm curious your thoughts of Angelo, because that's I mean,
that is an institutionalist, that's a traditionalist.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
What are you?
Speaker 6 (15:07):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yes, and I respect that's what I call I call
Andrew often jokingly our resident diplomat, but he's always going
to take the high road and do what isn't necessary
to preserve the institution. I'm making the argument that by
virtue of this man's elections, the institutions are gone.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
I'm making the go ahead.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
No, I just wanted to correct myself and say, I
believe some institutions need to be leveled. So it's not
protect the institution at all costs. It's not protect the
institution because what there.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Was to be leveled, I just don't know if they're
going to be leveled in the way that you would like.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
And I think, well, but but by advocacy before, if
there is a thing that needs to be taken away
to be leveled, it ought to be leveled and put
energy into that. But I'm not going to put energy
into the things that to me are not on the
whole importance.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Okay, here's the consequential. Here's my thought.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
I think that we have and I'm saying I feel
like I've been lied to. I feel like I've been betrayed.
I feel like when people told me that there was
sound evidence to support that Donald Trump is a threat
to democracy and his election would need the end of
the thing that we know is imperfect, but that we
(16:26):
are since our ancestors were here, have been working to
better even when it didn't benefit us.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
If it is truly an.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Endto democracy, I don't understand how you welcome that into
your house. I don't understand how you welcome that into
the bodies of government. I don't understand any of that.
I don't understand how you clear the pathway for him
not to serve time in prison. I don't understand how
you have strong evidence to support a conviction for him,
and you don't work to ensure that the day.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Of justice or that justice has served. I don't understand that.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
What I think, what I think is the problem now
is that there are a number of people who are
watching Barack Obama at Jimmy Carter's funeral, talking to Donald
Trump NonStop, who are seeing that he's at the inauguration,
who understood, who understand that Michelle Obama stood her ground
(17:17):
and did not attend for another reason. Who understand that
Kamala Harris, who was called trash by jd Vance, did
not welcome her into her home until it's time for
her to move out. I think that we are saying
one thing, asking people to stand with us and saying
that thing and doing something very different, and that is
more dangerous than the threat that Donald Trump could ever be,
(17:39):
because what happens is you lose credibility with people because
you don't look honest.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
I feel lied to because.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Everything that I've seen says that this man does not
care about the rules. The fact that Elon Musk will
have an office on the White House campus, the.
Speaker 7 (17:54):
Fact that tech companies writ Lodge large bought their way
into Donald Trump's pockets by funding the inauguration, that Coke
gave him the first commemorative inauguration bottle, like the way
that these these companies left and right are throwing out DEI,
we are not acknowledging the true threat he is. If
our leaders, the people we've elected, the people that we've
(18:16):
campaigned for, the folks that our parents and everybody else
has donated to, are no longer saying the same thing,
that is far more dangerous than.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Any constitutional protection we could ever have.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
It is far more dangerous than any area of decorum
thing that we could say is just the right thing
to do. Damn that I'm not welcoming the devil into
my house. The Bible says resist the devil and he
will flee from you. Then we got to resist get
the break.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I want to get on the other side. Well, on
the other side of this break, I want to get
into who's not going to be there, and that is
forever flowed as Michelle Obama, and I want to remind
our viewers how she feels about Donald Trump and why
she might not be there. And I want to get
back in some more of what you had to say,
so we'll see you on our side.
Speaker 8 (19:14):
We will never benefit from the affirmative action of generational
wealth if we bankrupt the business.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
If we bankrupt the business.
Speaker 8 (19:36):
Or choke in a crisis, we don't get a second, third.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
Or fourth chance.
Speaker 8 (19:41):
If things don't go our way. We don't have the
luxury of whining or cheating others to get further ahead. No,
we don't get to change the rules, so we always win.
If we see a mountain in front of us, we
don't expect there to be an escalator waiting to take
(20:02):
us to the top.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
No, we put our heads down. We get to work.
Speaker 8 (20:12):
In America, we do something.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So those, of course, were the words forever flows Michelle Obama,
who tossed the deuce of city inauguration today, she said,
count me out. I ain't got com I love that
so many people have been sending around all these pictures
of Michelle Obama talking about if I'll send you this,
I ain't coming. She she is me, I am her.
I would not be there. And I think this is
(20:39):
kind of the point Angela was making, because Angela, some
of the things that you were talking about, and someone
from across the aisle someone could say those are policy differences,
like DEI, you could say, those are policy differences, not
necessarily a threat. That is, that is like the baseline
of how they're threatening us. The more scary thing, I
(20:59):
think is what you talked about about the tech companies
and what they touched and how they have bought their
way into this administration, which quite frankly, we have not
dug into deep enough. I don't mean we native Land,
I mean we the country. We the constituents of America,
have not examined that very dangerous relationship, the threat that
we are on the global stage with all of these
people who are inept leading these agencies. So I think
(21:22):
you had raised a really good point about normalizing this
when we see people normally, when you are engaging with
this man who questioned your very citizenship, who said that
you were born in Kenya, who disrespected key key after that,
And you know what it reminds me of. I'll tell
y'all which y'all all of us can appreciate. In the
(21:43):
green room on some of these cable news hits, okay,
there are people who are MAGA extremists, Trump apologists, and
they're on with people who you know are democratic exposed people,
people on the left, and in the green room they
all ki ki in and hahan and oh oh.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
Did you you and your family went here? Blah blah blah.
I won't tell you.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I never did that shit in my life. I wasn't
never out there performing. I wasn't playing no character, ain't
no key key. I don't give a damn with you
and your family did over the weekend. I'm not talking
to you about it. We can talk about policy when
we get on air. You're not my friend, I'm not
trying to reach across the aisle. You're not my good
distinguished person. And sometimes I think those performative antics do
(22:22):
more harm to our democracy by pretending the thing that
we see, the clear and present danger that is before
us is not a clear and present danger, and the
quite the quiet truth that should be allowed truth is
Donald Trump is an existential threat to not only America,
but our lives as American citizens, as black people, and
(22:43):
our livelihoods as people of this country.
Speaker 6 (22:45):
So I just disagree with the politeness. Uh, I don't.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I don't. I don't think so. Your example of not
sitting in the green room kicking, I've never done that either.
It's not my thing.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
Any of us.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
No, I just want to be clear up about the difference.
I don't and I don't and I don't in Florida
with wishing people happy birthdays who don't believe in my
existence and yeah, all that that is performative. I have
no obligation to that. I don't think. You know, many
people don't have an obligation. Michelle Obama has never taken
(23:18):
an oath of office to the country, not as first Lady,
and not in any way prior to that. I'm not
saying that to say she had loved the country and
it is fighting tooth and nail to protect it for
herself and for her daughters and their porogeny all that,
But she doesn't have an obligation in regards to the
levers of power. In the exchange of that, all good.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
She can I just real quickly in her She's not.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
For the games. I love that about her, and I
love that she gets to show her protests in this way.
I wish her husband had joined her to add even
greater weight to that, because I don't think he himself
is consequential to this passage of power. I do think
that the current president and administration are the fact that
the vice president didn't invite dance and his wife is
(24:09):
of zero import Number one, he has no job responsibility
except to wait for the president to die. Uh, and
that that he gives them. Yeah, they have no constitutional
obligations of the constitutional obligation to any duty other than
to stand in in the absence of the president.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You're off the hook. As far as I'm concerned, I
not that not a tradition.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
She did.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
She held her Are we mad at her because she
presided over the accounting of the electoral vogus?
Speaker 5 (24:46):
I wish that she would have been more contentious about it, sure,
but no, I'm not mad at her for doing what
was her obligation. I think there's obligation and decorum.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Though we both we both signaled that the difference, which
is I can't give it a about t at the House.
I didn't give a damn about at the House first
time either with Vice President with Biden. What I care
about is that we don't get to throw out the
guard rails simply because we remember.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
It's not that we lost.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
It's like, I want to make sure that we're really
clear about the fact that this isn't and George W.
Bush felt like an existential crisis too, right, George W.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Bush, this isn't.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
That was the example I was about to go to, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
It's it felt like that, But.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
This is, this is democratic.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
This is this is still very That was awful, and
this is still very different. If we listen to the
campaign ads that were run, if we listened to the
rhetoric of every talking head, every spokesperson, every surrogate for
the campaign, if we listened to the Vice President herself
in the debates, if we listened to Joe Biden talk
about this man in twenty twenty when he ran against
(25:57):
Donald Trump, this is very different, or all of that
was a lie, And so we have to come to
terms with the fact that either he is a threat
to democracy and we treat him the same way we
would teach any treat any other world leader that is
a threat to democracy, or he's not.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
But we can't have it both ways.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Well, But so first of all, I don't I don't
disagree with you, which is why I think people have
to be really careful about rhetoric. You have to be
very careful about the words that come out your mouth
and how you assign them to other people. But that
being said, we don't if he is going to assume
all of the levers of power, it does us no
(26:40):
good to go underground and pretend that he won't be
making these decisions he and his administration for the next
four years that impact us. I no, I get it.
But but we're to what end. I guess what I
guess in what end?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
I think that Andrew we Here's here's the part where
I'm gonna just say. This is where I feel like
Republicans have balls. I think they have balls on the
wrong things. I think their balls are false. But here's
where I think they have balls. I think that if
the roles were reversed, were reversed, and they really thought
that this person that was elected that beat their team
was a threat to democracy, there would be more of
(27:19):
a proachest. I'm not suggesting in January sixth, what's gonna
be my next point, But what I'm saying is there
is a difference between tearing up your own house and
saying these are the ways in which I won't engage
with you because you are a threat to everything I
stand for. And I just think that we say that
with the rhetoric, We say that at rallies, we say
(27:42):
that in debates.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
But when it's come time, it comes time for.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
A leader to have passed away, to pass the baton,
we'd be like, good job, man. It's not an NBA
playoff game. This ain't the finals. Like this is not
just like the better team won. That's not what this is.
It's very different. We are going into a war for
our livelihood. We know, you know from the last administration.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
What's at stake. You were a target.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
This is not.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
Somebody who you welcome into your space and say, now,
how can I make this transition easier for you?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
That no.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
So my question, I guess back to the two of you,
is when the election is over and the new administration
is sworn into office. Is the argument then to people
to not engage any That's.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
What I'm but no, I don't think you're saying That's
what you're saying is but that. But that is a
question to talk about because and that's legitimate, because that's
what happened the first time around. He was inviting Steve
Harvey for some dumbfuck reason to talk about policy, Like,
I hope that people don't let their hubris lead them
into an office that they don't belong.
Speaker 6 (28:50):
But that is the question.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
If you know, if you're there to advocate, if you're
there to fight, do you show up to the meeting?
Do you meet with his sick of fans? Do you
meet with his cabinet members? Try to, you know, sway
them to your side, knowing that it probably won't happen.
I don't have the answer to that question, Andrew. Honestly,
my immediate thought, without giving it its due consideration, is no,
(29:12):
because I don't think that you can squeeze justice from
this turn up. I don't think that these are people
who are good actors. I don't think that they are
acting in good faith, So I would say no. But
what do you say do you disagree.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Well, we talked before about, for instance, the common cause
that might exist on some level of policy around the
Justice Department accountability being you know, there were some things
that I think, while they may have arrived at their
position for the wrong reasons, we know them to be
costly and devastating and life disruptive, if not ending, for
(29:48):
our communities. And so if the window exists for us
to level that part of the system, do we walk
through that door or not. I don't believe that you
participate in stagecraft. I don't believe that you are. I
don't think you willingly and ignorantly go into into being
a prompt. It's why I refuse to do a post
(30:09):
meeting after I lost. We're not sitting down to talk
about my agenda and what advice I have. I've never
been governor. I can't give you advice on what that
looks like. And you rejected my agenda during the course
of this race. There's no progress to be had there. No,
I'm not going to sit down with you for it
would be a useful idiot.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
If he says I want to talk to you about
a black agenda, would you sit down and talk so
so here's.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
The thing without preconditions.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Yeah, and I think that's the important part. What we
know about Donald Trump from the last administration, and sadly
that's all I have to go on is he loves
to have the conversations for the photo op. I'll never
forget that meeting with all those HBCU presidents piled into
the Oval office looking like Sardine's.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
It was humiliating.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
So I think for me, what I would what I
would have to acknowledge is I'm not likely a voice
that he can hear from. I am not opposed, as
you guys know, to being behind the scenes figuring out
who those spokespeople are somebody who wasn't as somebody who
wasn't as critical of his agenda as somebody who he
thinks might be a friend.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
But they're actually.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Gonna be a Frederick Douglass to an Abraham Lincoln kind
of a maybe there's that. I'm definitely not opposed to
figuring out how we get our stuff across the finish line,
because I'll be honest with you, I am so disappointed
by the Biden administration and the last and final days
and how our stuff wasn't handled. So if there's an
opening in the Trump administration. By all means, let's strategize.
(31:28):
That does not mean that I want to go tomorrow Lago,
key key, and ro Smores with your ass.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
So I think it's different, And I do like that
stretch of like, well, what would it take for us
to get there? Who are those players? Who are those people?
What's on the agenda? Our genda changes nineteen seventy two
would arguably since eighteen sixty four, you know, like it
has been the same, and it is. It is freedom,
and we are still striving for it is. It is
not here, and it is not lasting. It is but
(31:54):
for a moment, and it is far too fleeting. We
have an agenda that we need to get accomplished. That
as black liberation at all caps. The CBC says, no
permanent friends, no permanent enemies, just permanent interests.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
We got to see if we can ride that thing out.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
But right now I'm hot this hell, and I probably
should not be the person y'all send it to the oval.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
I'm just all right, Well, let's take it. Let's take
a quick break.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
On the other side of this, I want to talk
about protests because what is also happening today, there are
protests across the city.
Speaker 6 (32:20):
What you will not see is a lot of black.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
People at this protest. So we should get into that
on the other side of the break'll get me into
a chance to cool down, because she how cool? All right,
we're back. So I look, I the first pussy hat
(32:43):
I see. I'm rolling my eyes at it, like y'all
got it.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
If it wasn't a thought, i'd smack it off, right.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I just I don't care about it. I'm not protesting
on this day. I am enjoying time with our community
with Michael Harriet about the dream.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
Yes, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I just and but I think this kind of goes
to what you were saying, Angela about engaging like you're
still in the fight. You're willing to sit down with
them and figure out strategically what it is. I have
to say. I'm I'm probably to the left of you
on that. I don't want to even do that. I
don't want to sit across from these people. I think
people like you probably should, you know, but.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I said I should not go. I said I was
sending people in.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
But behind that, like you, you can behind the scenes
try to advance something. I just don't trust these people,
you know, I don't think that there. I don't know
what areas we could find common ground on and work
on something. I think I'd rather put all my energy
and effort into protecting the community, because you know, that's
where the most harm comes. Unfortunately, FBI, we talked about
(33:48):
that before.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
If they're talking about agetting, and this was Andrew's point,
I think earlier on there are.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Some institutions that should be level because they've never seen this.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
But but I think I'm very clear when they talk
about level in the FBI cash Hotel, is no talking
about we got to crush operations like cointel prone. We
can't do that. He's talking about how can we weaponize
these institutions to serve our King, Donald Trump. We don't
have a president, ladies and gentlemen, we have a king,
and that is what we are are looking at in
(34:16):
this landscape. I don't want to participate in it, and
I don't know how to do that and protect our
people at the same time.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
But I'm sure as hell gonna try to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I think there's a lot of crossover between harm, you know,
protecting our people which basically equals harm reduction, like don't advance, Like,
I don't expect you to make me the millionaire, but
I expect you not to drag me back, not to
drag me backwards. Now again, I don't know that I
have to trust these people or their motivations for why
(34:46):
they want to do a thing, because I think I
can say pretty clearly from Jump Street that they're going
to be self motivated at every turn that if we
can just walk into the room anticipating that whatever they do,
whatever we walk away with is going to be to
their advantage more than it's going to be to mind.
(35:06):
Their reasons for getting here are going to be different
than the reasons I have forgetting here. But if it
still takes aim at that same motherfucking policy that got
us here, then let's take aim at it and blow
it away.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Well where do you stand on protests? Like I feel
like black people have done so much.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I just I don't know how I can add, like
does our protest still look like marching?
Speaker 6 (35:28):
Are we you know?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Circulating petitions? Are we showing up? Are we being disruptive?
Speaker 6 (35:33):
Are we you know?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I don't know. I think it depends on the stakes
I definitely don't think it's a I don't think it's
a strategy we rule out. I do think it depends
on the stakes of the fight at the time. But
I also think, just like our civil rights leader, which
we should take lessons from today, that we had a
Malcolm and a Martin who the world experienced as being
(35:56):
completely separate thisoint know, disconnected move ments and body mens
represented as you know, one of peace loving, god fearing
you know, uh, a leader of the of the army,
and the other being radical, untraditional, willing to go to
(36:17):
the hilt for our people, and they both I don't
think any one of us would say there wasn't equal
relevance and import from from both if we were to
look at it that way, they were both. I think
that's what I'm again, I don't think the lines are
as I have just described. I think that is the
super observation of what that was. But I agree none
(36:41):
of that, to me is the truth of the matter.
But what I know is the truth of the matter
is is that, just as Angela acknowledged, I may not
be the person that sent into that room, but we
should think together about who that right is so that
when after that meet not go on TV and blast
them that they understand from whence I come. My blasting
(37:02):
is necessary to give them greater leverage in the room
toward the negotiated end that we're fighting for. And I
still think that black people know this lesson, and I
don't think we should ever betray this lesson that advances
are to be made and we all got roles to
play and how we get there. Some of us gonna
(37:23):
throw the bombs from outside, others are going to set
the trap inside, and still others are going to drag
us over the finish line and other ways. So I
just think we have we are dexterious, and we got
to show that dexterity.
Speaker 6 (37:36):
Now I agree with that.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
I want to switch gears slightly to the pomp and
circumstance of it all because I remember in twenty sixteen,
we had strong feelings about people who chose to perform
at Donald Trump's inauguration. Recently, Woopy Goldberg had this to
say about Carrie Underwood performing.
Speaker 9 (37:57):
People do what they do for whatever reasons. It's like
Joe and Mika.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
Did what they did.
Speaker 9 (38:02):
They felt that's what they needed to do, And I
gotta stand behind them, yeah, you know, and I stand
behind her if she's no, no, not or not, because
if I believe I have the right to make up
my mind to go perform someplace, I believe they have
the same right, of course, and so I have to Yeah,
I gotta. I have to support. Doesn't mean I'm particularly
(38:22):
interested in what I won't be watching, you know, but
that's me.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
But I'm just curious because last time there was such blowback, blowback,
especially for black performers, it was Chrissette Michelle, I Am
christ Michelle. No more was Travis Green Travis and Apologize
Gospels thinger. So I'm just curious to know has the
temperature changed. There are now we see in this as
a strategy move.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
No.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I honestly, I think will Be Gobert probably would have
felt that same way about Chrissette Michelle and I. Actually
I'm glad that we heard the exact clip because I
actually agree with a whoopee now that I've heard what
she said, I don't expect anything from Carrie Underwood. I
remember the little bit that she did on Obama Care
with Brad Paisley. I think it was at the CMA's
(39:05):
or somewhere wherever it took place. Well, So yet this
is behavior I'd expect from her. I do expect better
from black people. I did expect better from Chrissette Michelle.
I did expect better from Steve Harvey. I did expect
better from people who were so eager to drink from
the white man's cup that they scurried the ass is
over there to you know, to do something, to tap
dance for them, all of it. And we hold ourselves
(39:26):
to a higher standard because we are we have first
hand experience with how damaging and harmful this system can be.
So when you go and perform for the face of
this system that is taking this system even further back,
even further to the right, even more oppressive, even more draconian.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
Then I do have to wonder what is your intention?
So I agree with Whoopee if she wanted to perform,
who gives a damn. I can't name three Carrie Underwood
songs don't really care about her, and people who listen
to her imagine it's gonna be a lot of other
performers performing too. But if Lol Wayne showed up, I'm
like messing with Little Wayne, Like that's an embarrassment and
he was kind of out. That's why I wasn't on
(40:04):
that Super Bowl conversation because I'm like, he was out
here real maga for a minute. Y'all dont want to
buy an informative foot bowl. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
I got plenty of other people I can support other
than anybody who was supporting as president.
Speaker 5 (40:14):
What the reason why he was shounding real crazy in
his last couple of performances. So even if even if
it wasn't maga issuees because the quality of performance is
gone down.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
I'm just saying karma is a But the truth is
is that for these folks who make their living off
of our buying into what it is they do, what
it is they're selling, how it is or whatever, these
choices have consequences, right and both ways. Right regardless of
which side wins, these choices have consequences. And I can
(40:47):
every day vote with my wallet on whether I'm going
to be a consumer, continue to patronize you or or what.
But I have the same stance that y'all have as
a relations to the folks who went to the first
Trump thing, and not just that, but on a whole
range of issues. When you show up on the opposite
side of where I am on issues that are consequential
(41:08):
to my life existence. Were gonna have problems and you
might not know me from tom Adam Cat, but just
know none of my money is coming to you. It's
going to a New York benefit.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Y'all were talking about going to these meetings. I just
want to just do another throwback because I love our
forever flowtus. Michelle Obama in two thousand and nine was invited.
This was something around inauguration.
Speaker 6 (41:30):
It was like.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
The after the inauguration, the Senate lunch.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Yes, that's what, thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
She was seated next to then I think House Speaker
John Baber leader beleader Leader John Banner is the speaker.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
He was speaker. I'm sorry, I said, I thought we
were talking about Mitch McConnell.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
No, no, no, this was House Speaker, Republican John Banner from Ohio.
We're going to roll this clip. There's no sound for
those of you who are listening and not watching. Those
of you who are watching, you can see that. Yes,
she when I tell you, she ain't got no time
(42:09):
for whatever this man was saying. He could have been saying,
these are the winning lottery numbers. She got irol after
irow she and her food. She ain't given him, no
eye contact, She's barely looking her way. And you can
tell how disgusted she was that she's supposed to sit
there and pretend that this man wasn't part of a
machine that was calling her husband. I'm not saying he
(42:30):
was not an American who was questioning his qualifications, who
was questioning his integrity, who had accused them of doing
a terrorist fist bump, who had talked about her physically,
who has talked about her personality, talked about everything she said,
she wasn't about to be Therefore.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
She was terr right.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
So she said there.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Everything about her body language said fuck you. From the
South side of Chicago to my spirit, from Whitney Young
High School to the Wild Hundreds, I'm telling you, double
middle finger to you, I ain't got it for you.
And I have to say in these times, in that time,
I remember some people even in our community, being critical like,
oh she could have been nicer, blah blah blah. No,
(43:12):
at that time, she was doing the right thing. This
time she's doing the right thing.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I'm not even going I agree.
Speaker 6 (43:20):
I know that, And she did.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
You see it all over her fail being. In fact,
it would be a hard thing for me to ask
her to join me at X thing. You know what
I mean, Like, I may have an obligation, he perceived obligation.
I don't want anyone to think that I don't get
what it means to send non verbal signals to people
that by your presence, by your existence, you are connoting
(43:46):
something to the people who are looking.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
ERTI lobby and corporate movements who are having like these
welcome inauguration parties, and people are like, oh, I have
to go.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
It's for my job.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
I don't want to, but I work for Coke, I
work for this company or law.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
I can't speak to none of that, but I do
know as it relates to obligation. There are things that
I understand to be obligatory and I and I by
and large will defend those things. And then they are
the things that are just your choice, that are like, Okay,
you know what, I could have done this or not
done this, and it wouldn't have been a world of
difference to the consequences of the exchange of power. But
(44:27):
then there are the choices that you can make that
show as real protests and what Michelle Obama has given
us is I think a will and by the way,
we've assigned meaning to this because her statement ain't say
nothing about what she's doing and why she ain't going.
But I have to read it from it exactly. All
of us can read it from understood. Not it need
(44:48):
not be stated, right. She ain't got to say a
damn thing. We know exactly what's going on. We need
that too, We need that too, that that somebody's reminding
us that it ain't right. Yeah, And I think she
has sent and will continue to send powerful reverberations by
her not being there and I and I embrace it.
(45:11):
And I, as I said before, with your husband would
join her.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
DNA.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
He's officially the president. Angelo, what is keeping you up
at night? Not that this man is officially the president
for those Angela just let out a deep side.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
Because you know my blood pressure trying to keep my
blood pressure load. I'm serious, I literally got to take
it every day. Uh hmmm.
Speaker 5 (45:42):
I think they're pledged to go after political enemies. I
think the super litigious nature of those who Trump is
rehired into the administration, the things that they will litigate.
You know that it's or people would just kind of
let go of the settlements that we've already seen happen
(46:03):
from media companies, the fact that there's such a severe
double standard, and what that says to our children, you
know what, the ways in which crafty and intelligent world
leaders will take advantage of this administration. I think the
real lack of separation. We used to have talk about
(46:25):
the separation between church and state. Now there's no separation
between corporate and state. And I think that the blending
of you know, how you get to power is through
money and privilege is really a very dangerous precedent.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
So there's so much.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Well what would you I mean, as we're officially in
this administration now, what would you guys like us to
focus on on the podcast? Because there's going to be
so much happening all the time, So should we like,
how do we go forward in terms of what we
do here? I mean, I don't want us personally, I
don't want to talk about Donald Trump all the time.
(47:00):
It's going to be hard not to, But I would
like us to offer something else to people other than
what this administration is doing. How do we strike that
balance or do you all think we need to I.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Thought your question was going to the direction of if
we have to cover them, what pieces of it are
we trying to track and because thousand percent that we
should be across the range just showing fine, we can't
look at the national model as a true example of
representative democracy, but let's look here at the state of
Maryland and let's assess that if we had our what
(47:32):
what would this look like? And then what decisions might
flow from it. Let's highlight some of that. So I'm
with you. You know, we talked about that before, and I
think that those are really important bright spots that must
be held up for us at this time. But I
also think it's we have to be ever vigilant that
while we were sleeping, that we didn't lose something very important,
(47:54):
critical fundamental to our existence now in the future because
we were sleep And so watching him and covering them
is not about following Trump. Watching them and covering them
is going to be about the threat or opportunity it
presents to our community.
Speaker 5 (48:14):
For me, yeah, we have to and that's the thing
I hope that we can center more. And Andrew, you
hit on this earlier today, center more on what it
means to protect us and advance our causes. And so
if this, if this podcast can be a part of
an organizing body, I'm here for it. Like I never
wanted to do media for media's sake. It It was
(48:36):
always for the advancement and liberation of like you. And
so to the extent that we can use this platform,
utilize this platform, utilize the gifts and talents that God
gave us to do that. I am down so we
can coverage. We can do coverage for oversight, but we
also need to do coverage for strategy and moving by.
So I would like to see that. Even though Tiff
was asking an audience, consider me part of the audience,
(48:57):
and then.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
You a good point. That's a good point. We should
ask the audience, like, what do you guys want to
hear from now that we're officially in this administration? What
do you guys want to hear from us? What role
do you want to play in the podcast? You know,
we have a very open table, So we invite your comments,
your questions, your videos.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
Even when y'all get mad.
Speaker 6 (49:18):
Even we play y'all videos and y'all get mad.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
I read your YouTube comments. Whatever the good, bad, and ugly,
I see it. All because it's his community, you know,
and we hold each other to to to a higher
account than I think we know.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
If you didn't answer the question oh yet either you
just say you don't want to.
Speaker 6 (49:35):
What would you like to see us cover?
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (49:37):
I would like us to see what's below the fold,
you know, not what's above the folte on A one,
but what's on you know, F three below the fold.
Speaker 6 (49:45):
And I think you know I have right job about
criminal justice.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
I care about what's I want our people who are
behind bars and know they're not forgotten. For the past
few weeks, I'll tell you guys, we had that gentleman
who's a member of Alpha Bay Alpha Fraternity Incorporated, asked
a question about disability. So for the past few weeks,
I have been looking into that. So stay tuned because
I will come back and talk about the intersection of
people of color, black people and disability and policies around that.
(50:16):
So that's something that I'll be talking about. Of course,
I have a lens of foreign policy and how we
show up on the globe. I just don't want to
get caught up in like the outrage every week. You know,
Donald Trump said this, and his cabinet member said this
in this exchange happened on Capitol Hill. I'd like to
have deeper, more philosophical discussions around what some of these
(50:38):
things mean and keep in mind our people, to give
our people something to believe in again, because it's so
easy to check out, but we have to remind people, hey,
this country for eight years was an amazing place to be,
even though we had a lot of challenges.
Speaker 6 (50:53):
But we can do that again and do it better
this time, So we'll see.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I mean, I know, sometimes it's going to be hard
not to talk out the shiny object. You know, it's
gonna be hard not to address the disrespect or the
insult or the fist fight that happens on Capitol Hill,
which I am predicted you're gonna I'm predicting because they
getting real froggy and at some point somebody gonna leave.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
You know, you got it, but you know to they
said that we are in talking about the what's above
the fold, We're going to talk about it through a
lens that centers our experience and how it is going
to impact us. So that doesn't worry me because I
think we've had an exhibited example of trying to show
(51:34):
like Look, this isn't going to be the generic talk
you're getting on M and NA nah and that yeah,
this is going to be all right, Well, how is
this landing with us? Because we're really ever considered in
this conversation right.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Well, I just I want to just say one tiny
little thing, and that is that I have always had
an eye or try to be true and authentic and
live in service to community, which is why it's a
pleasure to do this with both you guys, because we
all have that in common. And trying to gain favor,
(52:09):
you know, or secure things outside of that has never
been my intention.
Speaker 6 (52:14):
And you know, people come and go.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
But I think what people know about all of us
here is we have never tried to appease the people
who come and go. The corporate structure can like you
today and hate you tomorrow, but we have stayed true
to our community. And I just want to take this
moment of the hundreds it felt like thousands, maybe it
was thousands, but the thousands of people who this week,
(52:39):
this past week, I should say, have reached out, tweeted,
posted tag.
Speaker 6 (52:43):
DM all of it.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
I have seen your comments and I just appreciate you
all for acknowledging the work that we do here on
Native Land and how I've always tried to show up
for community despite who was in what position of power.
Speaker 6 (52:56):
So I thank you all for riding.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
With me at the emailk everybody, and.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
We still have a dream.
Speaker 6 (53:02):
You have a dream, and we work for freedom.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
Always of all powers to the people. Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reason Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Native Lampard is the production of iHeartRadio and partnership with
Reisent Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome. For every mountain side, let freedom ring. And
when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we
let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from
every state and every city, we will be able to
(00:28):
speed up that day with all of God's children, black
men and white men, jos and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics
will be able to join hands and sing in the
words of the old Negro spiritual Free at last, pre
ad Last, Thanks God Almighty, we are pre Admas Well.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Welcome home, everybody.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
This is a very special edition of the Native Land
Podcast because it is Martin Luther King Day.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Nothing else important is happening today.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
All we care about is the dream that doctor King
once had that appears to be coming in the form
of a nightmare.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
On this very day.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
But I won't say what that nightmare is. I'll allow
my calls to do that. I'm answer the rhy.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
I'm here with Tiffany Cross and Andrew Gillim.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
You guys, what could possibly be ruining doctor King's dream
for America.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Today, Well, I just want to say just really quick
back and I love that we came into doctor King's
word free at last, Free at last, because that and
Angela is gowned appropriately in her MLK gear today, because
that really is had such credo to black folks. That
is what we have, It is our birthright, it is
(01:44):
what we arrived in this country seeking. You know, we
were free beings who were kidnapped, rates have the humanity
beat out of us, and so for so long in
this country we have sought freedom. And so to hear
those iconic words every year, I still get goose bumps.
I still I remember when The Cosby Show did a
special episode and they played those words.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
It just it means so much to me.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So my honor and respect to the King family today
and your work and your sacrifice. Special shout out to
doctor Burneath King who stay woke and stay out there
carrying on her father's legacy.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
It is striking Angela.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I'm heartbroken that inauguration is taking place on Mlkday because
the Republican and conservative right wing MAGGA extremists are so
skilled at co opting his words and perverting them to
promote ideas, ideals and ideology that he did not stand for.
(02:45):
They always cherry pick his language when really he has
some pretty quote unquote woke language out there and holds
a lot of conservative white people to account, and they
never play those So I'm disgusted that inauguration is has
taking place today.
Speaker 6 (03:01):
It's heartbreaking.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
Yeah, it is the worst kind of oxymoron, Andrew. I'm
eager to hear what our resident diplomat has to say
about this horrific occasion on such a very special day
moday that we had to fight for, by the way,
even fight John McCain, who I probably would prefer being
inaugurated at this point.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
If he was.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
You know what, I appreciate one about MLK Day, but
Martinuther King and the civil rights movement and struggle, the
struggle toward our collective liberation, and it didn't start at
the Civil rights movement. It dates back back, back, far back.
And what I know is true about it is that
the words, the hymns, the prayers prayed from then to
(03:47):
now have always been aspirational. They've never been just about
the moment that we're in. And I think for survival purposes,
our ancestors had to project bright the future, a day
of freedom, a day when we could decide, a day
when there'll be no more sorrow, no more pain. You know.
(04:11):
I just think about the songs and the hymns that
carried us over, the speeches, the words, the poems that
have carried us have almost always always spoken truth to
what the moment is, and then try to take us higher,
try to take us, lift us out of our grief
into a higher plane. And so I'm acknowledging this day
(04:34):
as another one of those days that while reality may
feel bleak, while on one screen we might have the
Devil incarnate and his crew about to take the helm,
we also still have the example of Doctor King, of
our freedom, fighters, of our movement, leaders, of our ancestors.
(04:57):
To put our attention on something higher. And I really
I'm clasping to that, y'all, because the right now can
feel really defeated. The right now, this moment can feel
like a letdown. It can feel like god Lee, I
thought we had made so much progress and today feels
like a complete and total throwback. And it does. But
(05:21):
I also know that progress is almost always followed by
this kind of a reflexive verberation, and then in a
few years, be they two, be they four. You know,
we whiplash the next direction, and all kinds of progress
(05:42):
can be made. I just think for me, I'm making
it by lifting up out of what's today and embracing
what's today for the future.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Well, my neck urge from whiplash, so hopefully we don't
have to keep doing it. Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
American struggle, the Black Americans.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
Struggle, especially black and I'm just am tired. I would
like to if we can't, speaking of Black Americans, go
into something that we talk about often and ask who
all gonna be there? And so Andrew's talking about a
throwback talk about My argument is that you are our
resident Barack Obama, uh, and Tiffany is our resident Michelle Obama,
(06:23):
not because y'all married, but because this is these are
the two houses in which y'all sit. I feel like
I don't think so okay, well let's see, because I
feel like you had the biggest argument for why Joe
Biden should have invited Donald Trump into the White House, whereas.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
The Boss should have I should have What do you
mean I don't have an argument about that? Period. To
be quite honest, I know it came fiercely down, but
I thought presidents have for traditional purposes this symbolic after
(07:02):
the election passing of the torch, we're leaving and you're
coming in. And it didn't to me read as a
complete and total collapse of of I don't know protocol.
It's just okay, well that's.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
What I understood you to be saying, Andrews. So I
want you to correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Is that yes, that that is the people elected Donald Trump,
and it is protocol for the president to invite him
to the White House, and that should happen. That should
not be disrupted just because we don't like the election results.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Do I Well, fundamentally, I don't think they're different. I
just said I didn't bring I would not make an
argument Joe Biden, you how to invite such and such
and such and such. I'm also not going to lay
down on the train tracks over him having done so
by keeping with tradition, we just ran a race about democracy,
the the need to not change our opinions on what's
(08:04):
right based off of who gets elected.
Speaker 6 (08:06):
But people should go to inauguration.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
No, I wouldn't encourage people to go.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I'm sorry, I don't mean people like gen pop presidents
sit on that dais and watch him be sworn in.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I think former presidents can choose to do that and
keeping with the tradition and the peaceful transfer. I, however,
believe that their wives, family members, or anybody else is
obligated to the same. Michelle Obama never took an oath
of office to the United States of America. I want
(08:43):
to buy. The reason why that's important to me is
because we should have a bifurcation of a bifurcation should
exist between what are these traditions that are held because
of constitutional purposes and then individuals who just make a choice.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
I don't know what the Constitution says about presidents being
invited former presidents being invited to the oval or especially
when they're threats to democracy, or what it says about
presidents having to attend inauguration.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I've never seen that.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
But I guess what I'm curious about before we get to.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
The whyll transfer?
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Okay, how do you peacefully transfer power to someone who
you say is a threat to democracy.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
By keeping with the traditions of the office that inert
to the same which is, you know what, we win
this election. We competed. The election is now over. There
is one president at one time, and that will be
that son.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Another tradition is the vice president normally invites the incoming
vice president to the Naval Observatory for a tour so
they can see where they'll be residing before they take office.
Kamala Harris did not do that.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, I think we Kama Harris provided presided vice president.
Kamala Harris provided over the opening of the electoral vote
and the counting of the electoral votes in the authentication
process of the man who defeated her in the race
for the presidency. As far as I'm concerned, she has
(10:19):
hailed with the traditions of her office, and.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
That's not true, right.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
I just I think that she didn't that is her
constitutional responsibility success. I'm sorry I didn't say anything about
her presiding over the Senate. I was.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
That's what I said, because that's what I think is important.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
I understand.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I don't care about the visit.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I understand.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Okay, so that's what I'm curious about. I don't know
why you're you don't care about that visit, but you
do care about the other visit.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I didn't care about the other visit either, you did.
I just happened to disagree with your conclusion.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well, Andrew, I get the point that you're taking because
you're you're I think what you're saying is, I'm not advocating.
I'm not out there like Joe Biden, you better invite
don Trump. But the fact that he did, You're like, okay,
that that is traditional.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
So this is to me, this.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Gets to the heart of the conversation, because yes, it
is tradition, that is what happens. And what I think
Angela and I are saying is but he is a threat.
He himself is a threat to democracy. I think the
question that's more philosophical than it is political, is that
is how we feel what happens when a Democrat gets
(11:30):
elected and they say this democrat is a threat to democracy.
Not that any of us are mouthpieces for the party,
but there were people who felt like President Obama was
a threat to democracy. There were people who felt like
President Biden was a threat to democracy. There are people
who would have felt had Vice President Kamala Harris become
president elected, that she would have been a threat to democracy.
(11:50):
So in keeping with that, and I don't think these
are I think it is a false equivalency to talk
about what republicans and how they are a threat to
democracy andmocrats. So I'm not trying to compare the two,
but I think it gets to the heart of the
question of how much do we want to play by
the rules here in anticipation that one day the vowels
(12:12):
of power will shift and the expectation that we.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
Have right as they always do.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I got it.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
I'm like, go the rules out right. That is the thing.
People presuppose that this is just a normal time.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Republicans in our office is going to be bad four
years and I'm saying, ring the alarm, this is not normal.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
I say, throw out the rules. That's what they did.
They threw out the rules.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
They just decided this is not it. They treated it
like the pixie dust it is. So my thought is,
let's imagine this democracy as a blank slate. F you inauguration.
I'm not going to if I'm President Obama, I ain't
about to sit it you inauguration on MLKA. Then I
want my daughters to know I stood up on this
day and said if that I ain't there.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
The way Obama. I know he won't, but but it'd
be different to me if Obama, as in the first case,
were transitioning the presidency from himself to mister Trump. He did.
He showed up, as did Michelle. She was very much
so not happy to be there. We could all read
that on her face and demeanor, right, But he, as
(13:18):
far as I'm concerned, held to his part of the bargain.
Trump and his loser ass attitude didn't have what was
required to do the same for his successor, and all
I'm guys the reason why. So first of all, let
me finish this point. So, as far as I'm concerned,
previous presidents who are not the current sitting office holder
(13:40):
are free to do whatever it is they want to
do there. They are no law. They are not a
threat to democracy because they no longer attend the inaugurations
of the party they disagree with. That's that's that's a
that's a fair choice. I came down, however, on the
side of if you are the sitting president and your
pat and you are transitioning between administrations, that we have
(14:01):
to we have to show that there can be some
reconciliation here, because, like your point and I don't mean reconciliation,
like we all agree and we're we're holding hands on
and skipping in whatever down the stage. But this is
what it sets us up for. If we can just
decide we don't like the person, and therefore we no
longer have to respect any of the rules are guard rails,
(14:23):
the same will happen to us, and so on and
so forth, and so on and so forth. And I
think what's been what what there is about this democracy
that is defendable is that at the end of the day,
we don't have to torch the country because we lost
in a transaction of an election, all right, got to
(14:46):
that's that's that's, that's it. And I get that there
is a sentiment to throw out all the rules, to
buck into this and the say f you, and let
that message be resounding. And I find myself terified of
the consequences of that when it comes down on us.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I'm curious your thoughts of Angelo, because that's I mean,
that is an institutionalist, that's a traditionalist.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
What are you?
Speaker 6 (15:07):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yes, and I respect that's what I call I call
Andrew often jokingly our resident diplomat, but he's always going
to take the high road and do what isn't necessary
to preserve the institution. I'm making the argument that by
virtue of this man's elections, the institutions are gone.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
I'm making the go ahead.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
No, I just wanted to correct myself and say, I
believe some institutions need to be leveled. So it's not
protect the institution at all costs. It's not protect the
institution because what there.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Was to be leveled, I just don't know if they're
going to be leveled in the way that you would like.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
And I think, well, but but by advocacy before, if
there is a thing that needs to be taken away
to be leveled, it ought to be leveled and put
energy into that. But I'm not going to put energy
into the things that to me are not on the
whole importance.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Okay, here's the consequential. Here's my thought.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
I think that we have and I'm saying I feel
like I've been lied to. I feel like I've been betrayed.
I feel like when people told me that there was
sound evidence to support that Donald Trump is a threat
to democracy and his election would need the end of
the thing that we know is imperfect, but that we
(16:26):
are since our ancestors were here, have been working to
better even when it didn't benefit us.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
If it is truly an.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Endto democracy, I don't understand how you welcome that into
your house. I don't understand how you welcome that into
the bodies of government. I don't understand any of that.
I don't understand how you clear the pathway for him
not to serve time in prison. I don't understand how
you have strong evidence to support a conviction for him,
and you don't work to ensure that the day.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Of justice or that justice has served. I don't understand that.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
What I think, what I think is the problem now
is that there are a number of people who are
watching Barack Obama at Jimmy Carter's funeral, talking to Donald
Trump NonStop, who are seeing that he's at the inauguration,
who understood, who understand that Michelle Obama stood her ground
(17:17):
and did not attend for another reason. Who understand that
Kamala Harris, who was called trash by jd Vance, did
not welcome her into her home until it's time for
her to move out. I think that we are saying
one thing, asking people to stand with us and saying
that thing and doing something very different, and that is
more dangerous than the threat that Donald Trump could ever be,
(17:39):
because what happens is you lose credibility with people because
you don't look honest.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
I feel lied to because.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Everything that I've seen says that this man does not
care about the rules. The fact that Elon Musk will
have an office on the White House campus, the.
Speaker 7 (17:54):
Fact that tech companies writ Lodge large bought their way
into Donald Trump's pockets by funding the inauguration, that Coke
gave him the first commemorative inauguration bottle, like the way
that these these companies left and right are throwing out DEI,
we are not acknowledging the true threat he is. If
our leaders, the people we've elected, the people that we've
(18:16):
campaigned for, the folks that our parents and everybody else
has donated to, are no longer saying the same thing,
that is far more dangerous than.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Any constitutional protection we could ever have.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
It is far more dangerous than any area of decorum
thing that we could say is just the right thing
to do. Damn that I'm not welcoming the devil into
my house. The Bible says resist the devil and he
will flee from you. Then we got to resist get
the break.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I want to get on the other side. Well, on
the other side of this break, I want to get
into who's not going to be there, and that is
forever flowed as Michelle Obama, and I want to remind
our viewers how she feels about Donald Trump and why
she might not be there. And I want to get
back in some more of what you had to say,
so we'll see you on our side.
Speaker 8 (19:14):
We will never benefit from the affirmative action of generational
wealth if we bankrupt the business.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
If we bankrupt the business.
Speaker 8 (19:36):
Or choke in a crisis, we don't get a second, third.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
Or fourth chance.
Speaker 8 (19:41):
If things don't go our way. We don't have the
luxury of whining or cheating others to get further ahead. No,
we don't get to change the rules, so we always win.
If we see a mountain in front of us, we
don't expect there to be an escalator waiting to take
(20:02):
us to the top.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
No, we put our heads down. We get to work.
Speaker 8 (20:12):
In America, we do something.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So those, of course, were the words forever flows Michelle Obama,
who tossed the deuce of city inauguration today, she said,
count me out. I ain't got com I love that
so many people have been sending around all these pictures
of Michelle Obama talking about if I'll send you this,
I ain't coming. She she is me, I am her.
I would not be there. And I think this is
(20:39):
kind of the point Angela was making, because Angela, some
of the things that you were talking about, and someone
from across the aisle someone could say those are policy differences,
like DEI, you could say, those are policy differences, not
necessarily a threat. That is, that is like the baseline
of how they're threatening us. The more scary thing, I
(20:59):
think is what you talked about about the tech companies
and what they touched and how they have bought their
way into this administration, which quite frankly, we have not
dug into deep enough. I don't mean we native Land,
I mean we the country. We the constituents of America,
have not examined that very dangerous relationship, the threat that
we are on the global stage with all of these
people who are inept leading these agencies. So I think
(21:22):
you had raised a really good point about normalizing this
when we see people normally, when you are engaging with
this man who questioned your very citizenship, who said that
you were born in Kenya, who disrespected key key after that,
And you know what it reminds me of. I'll tell
y'all which y'all all of us can appreciate. In the
(21:43):
green room on some of these cable news hits, okay,
there are people who are MAGA extremists, Trump apologists, and
they're on with people who you know are democratic exposed people,
people on the left, and in the green room they
all ki ki in and hahan and oh oh.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
Did you you and your family went here? Blah blah blah.
I won't tell you.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I never did that shit in my life. I wasn't
never out there performing. I wasn't playing no character, ain't
no key key. I don't give a damn with you
and your family did over the weekend. I'm not talking
to you about it. We can talk about policy when
we get on air. You're not my friend, I'm not
trying to reach across the aisle. You're not my good
distinguished person. And sometimes I think those performative antics do
(22:22):
more harm to our democracy by pretending the thing that
we see, the clear and present danger that is before
us is not a clear and present danger, and the
quite the quiet truth that should be allowed truth is
Donald Trump is an existential threat to not only America,
but our lives as American citizens, as black people, and
(22:43):
our livelihoods as people of this country.
Speaker 6 (22:45):
So I just disagree with the politeness. Uh, I don't.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I don't. I don't think so. Your example of not
sitting in the green room kicking, I've never done that either.
It's not my thing.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
Any of us.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
No, I just want to be clear up about the difference.
I don't and I don't and I don't in Florida
with wishing people happy birthdays who don't believe in my
existence and yeah, all that that is performative. I have
no obligation to that. I don't think. You know, many
people don't have an obligation. Michelle Obama has never taken
(23:18):
an oath of office to the country, not as first Lady,
and not in any way prior to that. I'm not
saying that to say she had loved the country and
it is fighting tooth and nail to protect it for
herself and for her daughters and their porogeny all that,
But she doesn't have an obligation in regards to the
levers of power. In the exchange of that, all good.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
She can I just real quickly in her She's not.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
For the games. I love that about her, and I
love that she gets to show her protests in this way.
I wish her husband had joined her to add even
greater weight to that, because I don't think he himself
is consequential to this passage of power. I do think
that the current president and administration are the fact that
the vice president didn't invite dance and his wife is
(24:09):
of zero import Number one, he has no job responsibility
except to wait for the president to die. Uh, and
that that he gives them. Yeah, they have no constitutional
obligations of the constitutional obligation to any duty other than
to stand in in the absence of the president.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You're off the hook. As far as I'm concerned, I
not that not a tradition.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
She did.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
She held her Are we mad at her because she
presided over the accounting of the electoral vogus?
Speaker 5 (24:46):
I wish that she would have been more contentious about it, sure,
but no, I'm not mad at her for doing what
was her obligation. I think there's obligation and decorum.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Though we both we both signaled that the difference, which
is I can't give it a about t at the House.
I didn't give a damn about at the House first
time either with Vice President with Biden. What I care
about is that we don't get to throw out the
guard rails simply because we remember.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
It's not that we lost.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
It's like, I want to make sure that we're really
clear about the fact that this isn't and George W.
Bush felt like an existential crisis too, right, George W.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Bush, this isn't.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
That was the example I was about to go to, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
It's it felt like that, But.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
This is, this is democratic.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
This is this is still very That was awful, and
this is still very different. If we listen to the
campaign ads that were run, if we listened to the
rhetoric of every talking head, every spokesperson, every surrogate for
the campaign, if we listened to the Vice President herself
in the debates, if we listened to Joe Biden talk
about this man in twenty twenty when he ran against
(25:57):
Donald Trump, this is very different, or all of that
was a lie, And so we have to come to
terms with the fact that either he is a threat
to democracy and we treat him the same way we
would teach any treat any other world leader that is
a threat to democracy, or he's not.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
But we can't have it both ways.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Well, But so first of all, I don't I don't
disagree with you, which is why I think people have
to be really careful about rhetoric. You have to be
very careful about the words that come out your mouth
and how you assign them to other people. But that
being said, we don't if he is going to assume
all of the levers of power, it does us no
(26:40):
good to go underground and pretend that he won't be
making these decisions he and his administration for the next
four years that impact us. I no, I get it.
But but we're to what end. I guess what I
guess in what end?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
I think that Andrew we Here's here's the part where
I'm gonna just say. This is where I feel like
Republicans have balls. I think they have balls on the
wrong things. I think their balls are false. But here's
where I think they have balls. I think that if
the roles were reversed, were reversed, and they really thought
that this person that was elected that beat their team
was a threat to democracy, there would be more of
(27:19):
a proachest. I'm not suggesting in January sixth, what's gonna
be my next point, But what I'm saying is there
is a difference between tearing up your own house and
saying these are the ways in which I won't engage
with you because you are a threat to everything I
stand for. And I just think that we say that
with the rhetoric, We say that at rallies, we say
(27:42):
that in debates.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
But when it's come time, it comes time for.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
A leader to have passed away, to pass the baton,
we'd be like, good job, man. It's not an NBA
playoff game. This ain't the finals. Like this is not
just like the better team won. That's not what this is.
It's very different. We are going into a war for
our livelihood. We know, you know from the last administration.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
What's at stake. You were a target.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
This is not.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
Somebody who you welcome into your space and say, now,
how can I make this transition easier for you?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
That no.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
So my question, I guess back to the two of you,
is when the election is over and the new administration
is sworn into office. Is the argument then to people
to not engage any That's.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
What I'm but no, I don't think you're saying That's
what you're saying is but that. But that is a
question to talk about because and that's legitimate, because that's
what happened the first time around. He was inviting Steve
Harvey for some dumbfuck reason to talk about policy, Like,
I hope that people don't let their hubris lead them
into an office that they don't belong.
Speaker 6 (28:50):
But that is the question.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
If you know, if you're there to advocate, if you're
there to fight, do you show up to the meeting?
Do you meet with his sick of fans? Do you
meet with his cabinet members? Try to, you know, sway
them to your side, knowing that it probably won't happen.
I don't have the answer to that question, Andrew. Honestly,
my immediate thought, without giving it its due consideration, is no,
(29:12):
because I don't think that you can squeeze justice from
this turn up. I don't think that these are people
who are good actors. I don't think that they are
acting in good faith, So I would say no. But
what do you say do you disagree.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Well, we talked before about, for instance, the common cause
that might exist on some level of policy around the
Justice Department accountability being you know, there were some things
that I think, while they may have arrived at their
position for the wrong reasons, we know them to be
costly and devastating and life disruptive, if not ending, for
(29:48):
our communities. And so if the window exists for us
to level that part of the system, do we walk
through that door or not. I don't believe that you
participate in stagecraft. I don't believe that you are. I
don't think you willingly and ignorantly go into into being
a prompt. It's why I refuse to do a post
(30:09):
meeting after I lost. We're not sitting down to talk
about my agenda and what advice I have. I've never
been governor. I can't give you advice on what that
looks like. And you rejected my agenda during the course
of this race. There's no progress to be had there. No,
I'm not going to sit down with you for it
would be a useful idiot.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
If he says I want to talk to you about
a black agenda, would you sit down and talk so
so here's.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
The thing without preconditions.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Yeah, and I think that's the important part. What we
know about Donald Trump from the last administration, and sadly
that's all I have to go on is he loves
to have the conversations for the photo op. I'll never
forget that meeting with all those HBCU presidents piled into
the Oval office looking like Sardine's.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
It was humiliating.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
So I think for me, what I would what I
would have to acknowledge is I'm not likely a voice
that he can hear from. I am not opposed, as
you guys know, to being behind the scenes figuring out
who those spokespeople are somebody who wasn't as somebody who
wasn't as critical of his agenda as somebody who he
thinks might be a friend.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
But they're actually.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Gonna be a Frederick Douglass to an Abraham Lincoln kind
of a maybe there's that. I'm definitely not opposed to
figuring out how we get our stuff across the finish line,
because I'll be honest with you, I am so disappointed
by the Biden administration and the last and final days
and how our stuff wasn't handled. So if there's an
opening in the Trump administration. By all means, let's strategize.
(31:28):
That does not mean that I want to go tomorrow Lago,
key key, and ro Smores with your ass.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
So I think it's different, And I do like that
stretch of like, well, what would it take for us
to get there? Who are those players? Who are those people?
What's on the agenda? Our genda changes nineteen seventy two
would arguably since eighteen sixty four, you know, like it
has been the same, and it is. It is freedom,
and we are still striving for it is. It is
not here, and it is not lasting. It is but
(31:54):
for a moment, and it is far too fleeting. We
have an agenda that we need to get accomplished. That
as black liberation at all caps. The CBC says, no
permanent friends, no permanent enemies, just permanent interests.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
We got to see if we can ride that thing out.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
But right now I'm hot this hell, and I probably
should not be the person y'all send it to the oval.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
I'm just all right, Well, let's take it. Let's take
a quick break.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
On the other side of this, I want to talk
about protests because what is also happening today, there are
protests across the city.
Speaker 6 (32:20):
What you will not see is a lot of black.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
People at this protest. So we should get into that
on the other side of the break'll get me into
a chance to cool down, because she how cool? All right,
we're back. So I look, I the first pussy hat
(32:43):
I see. I'm rolling my eyes at it, like y'all
got it.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
If it wasn't a thought, i'd smack it off, right.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I just I don't care about it. I'm not protesting
on this day. I am enjoying time with our community
with Michael Harriet about the dream.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
Yes, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I just and but I think this kind of goes
to what you were saying, Angela about engaging like you're
still in the fight. You're willing to sit down with
them and figure out strategically what it is. I have
to say. I'm I'm probably to the left of you
on that. I don't want to even do that. I
don't want to sit across from these people. I think
people like you probably should, you know, but.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I said I should not go. I said I was
sending people in.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
But behind that, like you, you can behind the scenes
try to advance something. I just don't trust these people,
you know, I don't think that there. I don't know
what areas we could find common ground on and work
on something. I think I'd rather put all my energy
and effort into protecting the community, because you know, that's
where the most harm comes. Unfortunately, FBI, we talked about
(33:48):
that before.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
If they're talking about agetting, and this was Andrew's point,
I think earlier on there are.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Some institutions that should be level because they've never seen this.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
But but I think I'm very clear when they talk
about level in the FBI cash Hotel, is no talking
about we got to crush operations like cointel prone. We
can't do that. He's talking about how can we weaponize
these institutions to serve our King, Donald Trump. We don't
have a president, ladies and gentlemen, we have a king,
and that is what we are are looking at in
(34:16):
this landscape. I don't want to participate in it, and
I don't know how to do that and protect our
people at the same time.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
But I'm sure as hell gonna try to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I think there's a lot of crossover between harm, you know,
protecting our people which basically equals harm reduction, like don't advance, Like,
I don't expect you to make me the millionaire, but
I expect you not to drag me back, not to
drag me backwards. Now again, I don't know that I
have to trust these people or their motivations for why
(34:46):
they want to do a thing, because I think I
can say pretty clearly from Jump Street that they're going
to be self motivated at every turn that if we
can just walk into the room anticipating that whatever they do,
whatever we walk away with is going to be to
their advantage more than it's going to be to mind.
(35:06):
Their reasons for getting here are going to be different
than the reasons I have forgetting here. But if it
still takes aim at that same motherfucking policy that got
us here, then let's take aim at it and blow
it away.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Well where do you stand on protests? Like I feel
like black people have done so much.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I just I don't know how I can add, like
does our protest still look like marching?
Speaker 6 (35:28):
Are we you know?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Circulating petitions? Are we showing up? Are we being disruptive?
Speaker 6 (35:33):
Are we you know?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I don't know. I think it depends on the stakes
I definitely don't think it's a I don't think it's
a strategy we rule out. I do think it depends
on the stakes of the fight at the time. But
I also think, just like our civil rights leader, which
we should take lessons from today, that we had a
Malcolm and a Martin who the world experienced as being
(35:56):
completely separate thisoint know, disconnected move ments and body mens
represented as you know, one of peace loving, god fearing
you know, uh, a leader of the of the army,
and the other being radical, untraditional, willing to go to
(36:17):
the hilt for our people, and they both I don't
think any one of us would say there wasn't equal
relevance and import from from both if we were to
look at it that way, they were both. I think
that's what I'm again, I don't think the lines are
as I have just described. I think that is the
super observation of what that was. But I agree none
(36:41):
of that, to me is the truth of the matter.
But what I know is the truth of the matter
is is that, just as Angela acknowledged, I may not
be the person that sent into that room, but we
should think together about who that right is so that
when after that meet not go on TV and blast
them that they understand from whence I come. My blasting
(37:02):
is necessary to give them greater leverage in the room
toward the negotiated end that we're fighting for. And I
still think that black people know this lesson, and I
don't think we should ever betray this lesson that advances
are to be made and we all got roles to
play and how we get there. Some of us gonna
(37:23):
throw the bombs from outside, others are going to set
the trap inside, and still others are going to drag
us over the finish line and other ways. So I
just think we have we are dexterious, and we got
to show that dexterity.
Speaker 6 (37:36):
Now I agree with that.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
I want to switch gears slightly to the pomp and
circumstance of it all because I remember in twenty sixteen,
we had strong feelings about people who chose to perform
at Donald Trump's inauguration. Recently, Woopy Goldberg had this to
say about Carrie Underwood performing.
Speaker 9 (37:57):
People do what they do for whatever reasons. It's like
Joe and Mika.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
Did what they did.
Speaker 9 (38:02):
They felt that's what they needed to do, And I
gotta stand behind them, yeah, you know, and I stand
behind her if she's no, no, not or not, because
if I believe I have the right to make up
my mind to go perform someplace, I believe they have
the same right, of course, and so I have to Yeah,
I gotta. I have to support. Doesn't mean I'm particularly
(38:22):
interested in what I won't be watching, you know, but
that's me.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
But I'm just curious because last time there was such blowback, blowback,
especially for black performers, it was Chrissette Michelle, I Am
christ Michelle. No more was Travis Green Travis and Apologize
Gospels thinger. So I'm just curious to know has the
temperature changed. There are now we see in this as
a strategy move.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
No.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I honestly, I think will Be Gobert probably would have
felt that same way about Chrissette Michelle and I. Actually
I'm glad that we heard the exact clip because I
actually agree with a whoopee now that I've heard what
she said, I don't expect anything from Carrie Underwood. I
remember the little bit that she did on Obama Care
with Brad Paisley. I think it was at the CMA's
(39:05):
or somewhere wherever it took place. Well, So yet this
is behavior I'd expect from her. I do expect better
from black people. I did expect better from Chrissette Michelle.
I did expect better from Steve Harvey. I did expect
better from people who were so eager to drink from
the white man's cup that they scurried the ass is
over there to you know, to do something, to tap
dance for them, all of it. And we hold ourselves
(39:26):
to a higher standard because we are we have first
hand experience with how damaging and harmful this system can be.
So when you go and perform for the face of
this system that is taking this system even further back,
even further to the right, even more oppressive, even more draconian.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
Then I do have to wonder what is your intention?
So I agree with Whoopee if she wanted to perform,
who gives a damn. I can't name three Carrie Underwood
songs don't really care about her, and people who listen
to her imagine it's gonna be a lot of other
performers performing too. But if Lol Wayne showed up, I'm
like messing with Little Wayne, Like that's an embarrassment and
he was kind of out. That's why I wasn't on
(40:04):
that Super Bowl conversation because I'm like, he was out
here real maga for a minute. Y'all dont want to
buy an informative foot bowl. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
I got plenty of other people I can support other
than anybody who was supporting as president.
Speaker 5 (40:14):
What the reason why he was shounding real crazy in
his last couple of performances. So even if even if
it wasn't maga issuees because the quality of performance is
gone down.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
I'm just saying karma is a But the truth is
is that for these folks who make their living off
of our buying into what it is they do, what
it is they're selling, how it is or whatever, these
choices have consequences, right and both ways. Right regardless of
which side wins, these choices have consequences. And I can
(40:47):
every day vote with my wallet on whether I'm going
to be a consumer, continue to patronize you or or what.
But I have the same stance that y'all have as
a relations to the folks who went to the first
Trump thing, and not just that, but on a whole
range of issues. When you show up on the opposite
side of where I am on issues that are consequential
(41:08):
to my life existence. Were gonna have problems and you
might not know me from tom Adam Cat, but just
know none of my money is coming to you. It's
going to a New York benefit.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Y'all were talking about going to these meetings. I just
want to just do another throwback because I love our
forever flowtus. Michelle Obama in two thousand and nine was invited.
This was something around inauguration.
Speaker 6 (41:30):
It was like.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
The after the inauguration, the Senate lunch.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Yes, that's what, thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
She was seated next to then I think House Speaker
John Baber leader beleader Leader John Banner is the speaker.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
He was speaker. I'm sorry, I said, I thought we
were talking about Mitch McConnell.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
No, no, no, this was House Speaker, Republican John Banner from Ohio.
We're going to roll this clip. There's no sound for
those of you who are listening and not watching. Those
of you who are watching, you can see that. Yes,
she when I tell you, she ain't got no time
(42:09):
for whatever this man was saying. He could have been saying,
these are the winning lottery numbers. She got irol after
irow she and her food. She ain't given him, no
eye contact, She's barely looking her way. And you can
tell how disgusted she was that she's supposed to sit
there and pretend that this man wasn't part of a
machine that was calling her husband. I'm not saying he
(42:30):
was not an American who was questioning his qualifications, who
was questioning his integrity, who had accused them of doing
a terrorist fist bump, who had talked about her physically,
who has talked about her personality, talked about everything she said,
she wasn't about to be Therefore.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
She was terr right.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
So she said there.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Everything about her body language said fuck you. From the
South side of Chicago to my spirit, from Whitney Young
High School to the Wild Hundreds, I'm telling you, double
middle finger to you, I ain't got it for you.
And I have to say in these times, in that time,
I remember some people even in our community, being critical like,
oh she could have been nicer, blah blah blah. No,
(43:12):
at that time, she was doing the right thing. This
time she's doing the right thing.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I'm not even going I agree.
Speaker 6 (43:20):
I know that, And she did.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
You see it all over her fail being. In fact,
it would be a hard thing for me to ask
her to join me at X thing. You know what
I mean, Like, I may have an obligation, he perceived obligation.
I don't want anyone to think that I don't get
what it means to send non verbal signals to people
that by your presence, by your existence, you are connoting
(43:46):
something to the people who are looking.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
ERTI lobby and corporate movements who are having like these
welcome inauguration parties, and people are like, oh, I have
to go.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
It's for my job.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
I don't want to, but I work for Coke, I
work for this company or law.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
I can't speak to none of that, but I do
know as it relates to obligation. There are things that
I understand to be obligatory and I and I by
and large will defend those things. And then they are
the things that are just your choice, that are like, Okay,
you know what, I could have done this or not
done this, and it wouldn't have been a world of
difference to the consequences of the exchange of power. But
(44:27):
then there are the choices that you can make that
show as real protests and what Michelle Obama has given
us is I think a will and by the way,
we've assigned meaning to this because her statement ain't say
nothing about what she's doing and why she ain't going.
But I have to read it from it exactly. All
of us can read it from understood. Not it need
(44:48):
not be stated, right. She ain't got to say a
damn thing. We know exactly what's going on. We need
that too, We need that too, that that somebody's reminding
us that it ain't right. Yeah, And I think she
has sent and will continue to send powerful reverberations by
her not being there and I and I embrace it.
(45:11):
And I, as I said before, with your husband would
join her.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
DNA.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
He's officially the president. Angelo, what is keeping you up
at night? Not that this man is officially the president
for those Angela just let out a deep side.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
Because you know my blood pressure trying to keep my
blood pressure load. I'm serious, I literally got to take
it every day. Uh hmmm.
Speaker 5 (45:42):
I think they're pledged to go after political enemies. I
think the super litigious nature of those who Trump is
rehired into the administration, the things that they will litigate.
You know that it's or people would just kind of
let go of the settlements that we've already seen happen
(46:03):
from media companies, the fact that there's such a severe
double standard, and what that says to our children, you
know what, the ways in which crafty and intelligent world
leaders will take advantage of this administration. I think the
real lack of separation. We used to have talk about
(46:25):
the separation between church and state. Now there's no separation
between corporate and state. And I think that the blending
of you know, how you get to power is through
money and privilege is really a very dangerous precedent.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
So there's so much.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Well what would you I mean, as we're officially in
this administration now, what would you guys like us to
focus on on the podcast? Because there's going to be
so much happening all the time, So should we like,
how do we go forward in terms of what we
do here? I mean, I don't want us personally, I
don't want to talk about Donald Trump all the time.
(47:00):
It's going to be hard not to, But I would
like us to offer something else to people other than
what this administration is doing. How do we strike that
balance or do you all think we need to I.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Thought your question was going to the direction of if
we have to cover them, what pieces of it are
we trying to track and because thousand percent that we
should be across the range just showing fine, we can't
look at the national model as a true example of
representative democracy, but let's look here at the state of
Maryland and let's assess that if we had our what
(47:32):
what would this look like? And then what decisions might
flow from it. Let's highlight some of that. So I'm
with you. You know, we talked about that before, and I
think that those are really important bright spots that must
be held up for us at this time. But I
also think it's we have to be ever vigilant that
while we were sleeping, that we didn't lose something very important,
(47:54):
critical fundamental to our existence now in the future because
we were sleep And so watching him and covering them
is not about following Trump. Watching them and covering them
is going to be about the threat or opportunity it
presents to our community.
Speaker 5 (48:14):
For me, yeah, we have to and that's the thing
I hope that we can center more. And Andrew, you
hit on this earlier today, center more on what it
means to protect us and advance our causes. And so
if this, if this podcast can be a part of
an organizing body, I'm here for it. Like I never
wanted to do media for media's sake. It It was
(48:36):
always for the advancement and liberation of like you. And
so to the extent that we can use this platform,
utilize this platform, utilize the gifts and talents that God
gave us to do that. I am down so we
can coverage. We can do coverage for oversight, but we
also need to do coverage for strategy and moving by.
So I would like to see that. Even though Tiff
was asking an audience, consider me part of the audience,
(48:57):
and then.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
You a good point. That's a good point. We should
ask the audience, like, what do you guys want to
hear from now that we're officially in this administration? What
do you guys want to hear from us? What role
do you want to play in the podcast? You know,
we have a very open table, So we invite your comments,
your questions, your videos.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
Even when y'all get mad.
Speaker 6 (49:18):
Even we play y'all videos and y'all get mad.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
I read your YouTube comments. Whatever the good, bad, and ugly,
I see it. All because it's his community, you know,
and we hold each other to to to a higher
account than I think we know.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
If you didn't answer the question oh yet either you
just say you don't want to.
Speaker 6 (49:35):
What would you like to see us cover?
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (49:37):
I would like us to see what's below the fold,
you know, not what's above the folte on A one,
but what's on you know, F three below the fold.
Speaker 6 (49:45):
And I think you know I have right job about
criminal justice.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
I care about what's I want our people who are
behind bars and know they're not forgotten. For the past
few weeks, I'll tell you guys, we had that gentleman
who's a member of Alpha Bay Alpha Fraternity Incorporated, asked
a question about disability. So for the past few weeks,
I have been looking into that. So stay tuned because
I will come back and talk about the intersection of
people of color, black people and disability and policies around that.
(50:16):
So that's something that I'll be talking about. Of course,
I have a lens of foreign policy and how we
show up on the globe. I just don't want to
get caught up in like the outrage every week. You know,
Donald Trump said this, and his cabinet member said this
in this exchange happened on Capitol Hill. I'd like to
have deeper, more philosophical discussions around what some of these
(50:38):
things mean and keep in mind our people, to give
our people something to believe in again, because it's so
easy to check out, but we have to remind people, hey,
this country for eight years was an amazing place to be,
even though we had a lot of challenges.
Speaker 6 (50:53):
But we can do that again and do it better
this time, So we'll see.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I mean, I know, sometimes it's going to be hard
not to talk out the shiny object. You know, it's
gonna be hard not to address the disrespect or the
insult or the fist fight that happens on Capitol Hill,
which I am predicted you're gonna I'm predicting because they
getting real froggy and at some point somebody gonna leave.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
You know, you got it, but you know to they
said that we are in talking about the what's above
the fold, We're going to talk about it through a
lens that centers our experience and how it is going
to impact us. So that doesn't worry me because I
think we've had an exhibited example of trying to show
(51:34):
like Look, this isn't going to be the generic talk
you're getting on M and NA nah and that yeah,
this is going to be all right, Well, how is
this landing with us? Because we're really ever considered in
this conversation right.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Well, I just I want to just say one tiny
little thing, and that is that I have always had
an eye or try to be true and authentic and
live in service to community, which is why it's a
pleasure to do this with both you guys, because we
all have that in common. And trying to gain favor,
(52:09):
you know, or secure things outside of that has never
been my intention.
Speaker 6 (52:14):
And you know, people come and go.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
But I think what people know about all of us
here is we have never tried to appease the people
who come and go. The corporate structure can like you
today and hate you tomorrow, but we have stayed true
to our community. And I just want to take this
moment of the hundreds it felt like thousands, maybe it
was thousands, but the thousands of people who this week,
(52:39):
this past week, I should say, have reached out, tweeted,
posted tag.
Speaker 6 (52:43):
DM all of it.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
I have seen your comments and I just appreciate you
all for acknowledging the work that we do here on
Native Land and how I've always tried to show up
for community despite who was in what position of power.
Speaker 6 (52:56):
So I thank you all for riding.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
With me at the emailk everybody, and.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
We still have a dream.
Speaker 6 (53:02):
You have a dream, and we work for freedom.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
Always of all powers to the people. Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reason Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com