May 23, 2025 • 23 mins
If you feel like giving up and tuning out in this political moment–that is by design. Hosts Angela Rye, Tiffany Cross, and Andrew Gillum discuss how to stay motivated under a relentless Trump 2.0 and the nonstop news cycle.
Our hosts have laid eyes on some Black communities working to become more self-sufficient during these dark times and they want to tell you about them.
If you’d like to submit a question, check out our tutorial video: www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/
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Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.
Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:
Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reasoned Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well come, welcome, Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
So y'all you know we're continuing this conversation that we
began uh on the original pod and we just y'all know,
we keep.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Talking, we keep uh, we keep it moving, keep it going.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
And the topic of conversation was really being about how
it is what will it take for us to feel
the impact of what's happening in our country and our communities.
What will it take for us to get up and
respond and not just respond when it's all the way
in our house, but respond as a.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Way to prevent the problem coming and hitting us directly.
And Angela, you you were, you were, you were offering
some perspectives, Tiffany, obviously you you as well. Angela.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The thing I was going to say in response to
where your comment had left off, when you were giving
examples of sort of the beloved community, the building of
the beloved community, growing your own food, living amongst each other,
Tiffany refers to it as you know, the building of
our wakanda. And the truth is is I believe and
(01:15):
I don't think that this is in disagreement with y'all,
but I just wanted to call out that some of these.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Ideas will feel luxurious.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
To some of the folks who are on the listening
end of it, Like I can't wait to get to
the point where I can, you know, invest, buy some
property in the south and move. I want to get
out of my rental situation right now and start to
own a home.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Really is my next step. But I'm not in position
to do that right now.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
And the only point I was going to make around
the various ideas of how we yes keep ourselves safe
and stay safe and build safety for our community is
that the battle is happening on all sides. It is
coming down on us left, right, front, back. The stuff
we haven't even gotten to yet, but we see it
(02:01):
coming down the pipeline, so much so that the dizzying
feeling that I think many people feel that causes us
to just pull back and check out is exactly the intent.
That's the purpose of the speed at which the enemy
is moving. It is intended to disorient us. It's intended
(02:25):
to throw us off our game and to even in
some way absence us from the problems that we know
we gotta face right now today on the belief that
maybe this is a bad nightmare, and tomorrow when we
wake up, it's going to be different. I only throw
this out to say I'm in full awareness that my
fight about fam you may feel very passionate and personal
(02:46):
to me, even if I feel like that fight is
impacting all of us, because that's what I've got, that's
where my energy lies right now. But that's not to
say that if you're not fighting that fight, that you're
not fighting. You're fighting, but you're fighting your own different set.
And I don't want anyone to walk away thinking that
we're attempting to judge your level of involvement engagement because
(03:09):
you're not on my fight. You may not be on mind,
but I assure you you might be. You're probably on
your own. And I was feeling in our conversation that
the approach felt more like judgment, even if that judgment
comes out of a place of love.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
I have a little bit rather than I had a
little bit of judgment for people who are like well,
that they voted for and who cares, and that ain't
my problem.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
Like I do have a little bit of judgment. It
may not be a good thing and.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Should reminded you that that was what you both were
saying as well as a different points.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
It's also just not true.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
It's just it's I think I think it was what
you were saying.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I'm irritated because it's not true.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And I am what's not true.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It's not true that that's what they voted for, Like
I think, I oh at that point, I think that
what we have to.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Come to terms with is that we are all going
to reap the collective consequences, whether we voted for it
or not, or whether we voted at all or not.
And I think that is the frustration, that is the
point of irritation for.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Me, and on you always telling us that you can't
disqualify person's feelings. These are my.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Feeling these are my feelings. I'm telling you my feelings
right now.
Speaker 6 (04:24):
I'm irritated by it, and I'm also saying I really
do feel concerned for all of us.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I do.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
I think that my biggest feeling right now is fear
for all of us, because I'm seeing a lot of people,
some who, because of their consistent like no reprieve from suffering,
don't see this moment as any different so that's concerning.
Am I fear for the people who are checked out
(04:54):
because they some of them are remarkably talented and resourced
and strategic, and we can utilize.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Them right now.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
And I feel.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
Afraid for like our elders and the youngers who are
kind of helpless and not like they can't think or
anything like that, but they they're relying on the strong
ones to kind of pull through. So I think I'm
I'm feeling the convergence of all those emotions.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Your own safety, which we'll talk about next week.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Yeah, but I still feel like even above my own safety,
like to me, La Monica is more in direct harms
way than I am by far, you know.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
So I just I'm just like that.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I mean, there's she's been charged by the Department.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Of Justice, right, but I just I don't know if
that's true. I don't want to get into because I
don't want to say anything I'm not supposed to say.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'm telling you for a fact that's true based on
what I.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Don't I don't know, that's all I'm saying. Well, I'm
telling unless you know I'm worried about y'all equally, Okay, Well,
if you know about a warrant for my arrest, then
tell me on air, but I don't know one, And
I say, but I'm based based on what I know
from legal and everything else. I am not in harm's
way like that, So I just am saying it's it's
(06:12):
a it's disheartening because where we are is we've created created.
I won't I don't even want to say we some
of us, some of our folks, have created an unnecessary,
hierarchical us versus them. And I think some of it
is our own blindness and our own ignorance over time,
(06:33):
and how we've approached our folks, like the most important
thing they could do is vote, when you trying to
pay feed your kids is not a good strategy. So
I just think and it's and it's it doesn't.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
It's not feel with compassion either, So I just I
really hope that we can pivot in this moment.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
And I think, you know, it's interesting the outlook about that. Well,
I'll ask you about your situation. We'll talk more about
that next week, because I feel like we're having an
inside conversation and I viewers don't know what's going on.
But we'll talk more about that next week, So be
sure you guys tune in next week. And while we're
at it, please be sure you're liking and subscribing and
(07:10):
listening to this content and telling friends about it. But
I think you know a part one. I want to say,
see you, Andrew. I hear you in the sense that
people like, oh, maybe I can invest it by a
house in the South, but that's luxurious.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
I got to tell you. I've been touring neighborhoods all
across the South.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
The past January.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I haven't been back to Florida, but there are actually,
and I don't want to say where, there are actually
black towns that exist like this, where they are growing
their own food.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
I've seen I don't sync with my eyes and talk
to them with my ears or talking to them my
ears talked to them.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
That's good, talking on the.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Ears, exactly.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
I was going to say, it's a message in that.
But those towns exist, and I remember saying, like, gosh,
I want to profile you guys. I want to talk
about this now. I want to talk about the things
y'all do. Y'all got black owned grocery stores that like
the whole town, and they've been saying no you shouldn't like,
why do they want to be on the radar like that?
(08:15):
And so it's angel I think we talked about this
early on, about moving in silence. You know, you don't
have to tell everybody your plan, yes, and so I'm
not getting too detailed in my plan, but I've been
doing serious research, writing and looking into what it would
look like. And Charles Blow wrote a great book about
it about reshaping political power, which is, to be honest,
is not where my.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Mind is right now. My mind is on safety. I
don't know exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Right now, that's right.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
In my first book, I wrote about the fact that
people look at black folks as commodities, you know, like
we're just voters, and even they are saying like if
you don't vote, you don't count.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
You know, the double is a line like I count
because I'm a human being. I count.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
If I don't contribute anything to this world, I count.
And so it's hard for me to fingerwag at people
who feel frozen in this. But I share your frustration
and irritation, Angela, because one, I've just never been able
to check out. But even being so checked in like that,
being pummeled with information every day, and what's happening every day,
(09:20):
It's like what the fuck? Like, I don't even know
what to do, And so the only thing I could
think to do is like, I'm gonna go out and
look for safety. Where can we build? Where can we create?
What does that look like?
Speaker 5 (09:30):
So I don't know, y'all. Can I tell you? Who
were asking? I don't? The answer is, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Can I tell you this?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Andrew?
Speaker 5 (09:36):
I want and I want to hear from you.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
It's just I want to just point out the fact
that us talking about creating safety and insulation for black
folks is not new. Black folks have been doing this
since the beginning of time. And even when we did
that that was threatening to white folks, they tore it down,
they burned it down, they put highways through it. We've
been talking about that on the tour or killed it,
(10:00):
been saying that every single week. She is we rebuked
that spear of death. But yes, I'm telling you, like,
this is not new. And we have so many communities.
We were in one in Durham, Black Wall Street in Durham,
we were in where were we just the other day
in Richmond where that was another Maggielina Walker look her up.
(10:20):
Like black folks were starting banks and when we were thriving,
they ran a highway through the thing. So we've always
been doing this, but we have to figure out a
way when we do it this time that it doesn't
get destroyed by a white accusation. Right, gentrification, transportation infrastructure
that doesn't serve us, imminent domain, adverse possession airs, property.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Law, like all of the things.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying like we have to be
mindful of the fact, like we're not talking about doing
nothing new and innovative.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh oh, my friend, that's not a lesson for me.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I was saying it for you. I was just saying, like,
for every.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Want to communicate a thing. I visit those hamlets and venues.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Very often with family, both in Alabama and in Georgia
and even in parts of Florida. Rosewood, don't forget that
was also Florida. So I don't just qualify that. I
think that is exactly where we ought to be thinking
and planning. But I also think we've got to be
(11:28):
thinking and planning everywhere right now. If your fight is
how we build the beloved community, and mine is how
do we make sure we keep institutions of higher learning
open since they have been the largest singularly the largest
shifter and wealth amongst Black people over the arc of
history of our people. It's how we've moved into middle
(11:50):
classes and beyond, and by our example is how our
cousins and them have moved right behind us in those
same directions. So everything feel urgent and if there and
I don't think we're out of solutions of what we
can tell people specifically what you can do. You may
not like what that specific thing may be, but there
(12:10):
are a lot of specific things that you can do.
I mentioned protests. Maybe that wasn't sexy enough, but guess
what it is getting results? Lawsuits? Again, maybe not sexy,
but it's yielding lawsuits. When you think about the number
of executive orders that Trump has has signed himself, and
how many of them he can probably count on one
(12:31):
hand how many haven't been struck down or not in
some legal limbo right now, right he can count on
one hand, probably how many are not every other one
of them is caught up in these in the in
the coils of the wheels. So so it isn't true
that we're not winning. In fact, when we have pushed
back in regardless of the venue we have one or
(12:54):
are in are in the process of winning and are
on the winning count right now. Your silence certainly doesn't help.
But you standing on the corner repeatedly or calling you
a member and letting them know that you expect more
of them and you expect them to be your representative
and not the presidents. You do that repeatedly, and then
(13:15):
your neighbors do the same thing is having impacts. So
it may not be the sexiest thing, and it may
not be the thing you want to do. Everybody's not
going to be the Internet sensation. Everybody not going to
become the celebrity activists. That ain't your ministry right now.
But everybody has something they can do. Should they choose
to do it, should life lend itself to them being
able to do it, that's it. I don't have a complaint.
(13:37):
I wouldn't even prioritize which is most urgent and most important,
because that's not for me to decide for anybody. You
know what issues you are facing are that are most
urgent and important?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Who am I? But we all have urgent and important
going on right now.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I think Angela's frustration, which I may share is do something,
you know, like this idea like I'm resting. One is
the idea of I'm resting, and two it's the idea
of fuck everybody else because they didn't vote how they
should have.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Well, I want to I want to welcome both you
and Angela to Andrew's philosophy since before and then after
the election. And all I'm simply saying is that we
have to make room for welcoming others onto that ship
because a lot of people were there.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
But there's also which I'll talk about this at some
point this summer, but there's about what I'm writing about.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
But there's a lot of heartbreak that happened that election.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
It's just why I'm not in judgment, right, No, I
know you and I don't think any of us are
incomplete judgment.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I got a little judgment.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I'm just hoping to call you up. I call you out.
And I was.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
So it wasn't like one or two, it was one
after the next, like f them, that's the voting for
who cares? I know the well you know, and you
say any of them were bot farms, it was too many.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
It was tiff Tip Wing check the page and see
if they.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Chill on no public siment through TIFFs. So she's my vent.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
People Sometimes on Instagram you can tell their bots and
you can go to their page and sy but the YouTube,
these are consistent listeners because and I know that, because
they will say, Tiffany, You're getting all my nerves with
your doom and gloom.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
So I'm like, oh, you're.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Judgingly a long time, right completely, And these these people
been listening a long time. And to be honest, I'm
still not out of my doom and gloom. I mean,
a part of men is like we're about to go
through some ship like this is we are back to
like reconstruction days. This is back to Jim Crow days.
And I'm worried about bracing myself. I'm worried about my
(15:52):
immediate family. I'm worried about my friends, like all of
those things. And so for me, I do not do
well when it's and I'm running around and flapping my
arms in the circle. That is not how I approach.
I just can't function that way. Like, if it's chaos
around me, I'm gonna remove myself from it. I'm gonna
sit in quiet. Then I gotta think through ship myself.
Other people can act in haste. I always scold it
(16:17):
again for saying this person's name. I'm gonna say it again. Albert,
Like Albert is one of those people like if things
happen on the hill, but he's juggling, he can quiet
the noise in real time and act and hate. I
think angela maybe is something a skill you learn in
law school. Survival maybe, But it just seems like a
lot of people who are jaded have that skill, you know,
(16:37):
where it's like, give me the bullet points and then
I'm gonna figure something out.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
In some cases, they if it were quiet and calm,
they might create the tornado.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And be like and be like, now, what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Somebody the tornado.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
I can't take it. If it's a tornado, I'm going
the other ways.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Even I think their personal I do think that's a person.
I think their personality. Some people thrive well. And by
the way, thank god, because some of us I just said,
shut completely down. It's like the world has got to happen.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Let's go.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
About I give away if I think about with MSNBC,
you know, or Andrews like stuff with the campaign, like
what I'm not gonna do.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
If I'm watching y'all stand there, I'm like, come on, hell,
like I'm gonna turn you.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
That is because I'm worried. That's such a good example
after MSNBC.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Space that we can't feel for ourselves, can't.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You're in the middle of the forest. All you can
see is the branches in front of you.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
You can't figure that hell of a tornado. I just
I was frozen, you know, I was literally frozen. Angela
was like, Okay, let's go. We're gonna talk to this
person issuing a statement. We're doing this, this, and this.
Like if it were up to me, I would have
just laid on my couch probably for a week, you know,
like I can't even it was too much incoming. My
world had been devastated, My finances have been devastated. So
(17:54):
that is a great example of I don't thrive in chaos,
even when it's my own chaos. If I can't, I
need people who thrive in chaos at that moment.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
But here's the only thing I'm gonna tell y'all because
I think and I think this is true for both
of y'all too. Like I have actually seen y'all see
somebody else's chaos and you bust the damn move.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So that's not true.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
That's true.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
But I was gonna say, like with Tiff, I can
understand why Tiff is very regimented and structured. Andrew is
in that unless he's losing his phone, but he's like
that in most ways. He's right, he's ambidextrious, he's right.
But Tif, the thing that is remarkable about you is
I think in chaos you'll still be like, Okay, now
here's the structure. I can understand in this instant instance,
(18:42):
because it is chaos on every side, Like everything that
we could lean up against for safety is now in upheaval.
I can understand why you're like, well, the structure that
I will put in place is even disoriented and disorienting
for me. So I can't build where there's no foundation.
So I didn't understand how that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, we're that. But I would say this, I would
challenge you in your research, in your writing, when you're
going to the South for safety, to make sure that
you look at and I'm sure you probably already are
the things that we built historically, why did they crumble?
Speaker 6 (19:20):
Right? And that's one of the things that's helping me
right now with the tour stuff, and then going to
our Baltimore National convenient what worked about Gary? Y'all watch
the Nation Time documentary at home if you haven't already,
And what didn't Why did they give up or did
they give up after this that last meeting we met,
We met the youngest delegate in Gary Larry Ham in Newark, Right,
(19:44):
what are the things that we can do to learn?
That is why we cannot discard our elders, because they
hold the keys and the blind spots that we would
have if we don't take the time to listen to
what happened these young people, the bravery they have, the
gust of like let's just go, We're just gonna go
figure it out. Yes, y'all start running, but let me
(20:05):
also go back over here and check with this elder
about what might have went wrong and what we could
avoid going forward. So I would say, even while we're
building and talking about the migration and talking about farming
and talking about cooperative economics, we still got to figure
out where the loopholes and the challenges that have been
in the past. I suspect one of the big ones
(20:26):
is the people who were economically strong in those different
eras thought that they were invincible, and we're starting to
see some of that for the folks who felt like
they were invincible politically. The folks who thought they were
invincible invisible economically, and they're getting hit too. So now
they want the poor folks who've been experiencing the struggle
(20:48):
to carry the weight of what they're now experiencing too.
And these meds like we've been told y'all mother, like,
where y'all being? Yeah, you know, so we got to
figure out the balance. I think that some of that
may just be an apology for the blind spot. And
now we do have to build together because we ain't
got no choice. That is the position we're in. And
you could choose to sit at home and not do anything,
(21:09):
and you could choose to keep building with your rich friends,
or you could choose to keep building just with the hood.
But I will submit to you that is not sufficient
in the air we're in because we're all on equal footing.
If there was ever a democracy where we're all on
the same footingever, it is right now, real.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Quick, because we gotta go nigga our producer niggas like
we gotta got in the bay. But what Angels said
is so good because the Cole Post is something like this.
But it's like, it's only so much we gonna learn
from social media. Now is the time for reading and
when you say what went wrong when we're trying to
figure out it was next one, if you read about
(21:46):
what happened, then you can anticipate what's about to You
can anticipate what's happening and what's about to happen, and
two learning those infrastructures and what went wrong. And I
have to just give a really quick shout out to
our friendship circle on this podcast and beyond, because in
some of this reading, Cleveland Seller's name comes up a lot,
(22:08):
and I think about our brother Bakari, Michael Harriet's family
who's distantly related to Jim Clyburn and his family worked
with the Seller's family. And Van Newkirk, who is an
amazing writer at The Atlantic, whose dad is an AHBC president,
who Angela knows and works with, and the fact that
(22:28):
our elders produce these children, and we are all friends
now and Bakari is on the front. He doesn't talk
about it a lot, but Bakari is on the front
lines with so many fights. So I love that brother
for the work that he's doing. Michael Harriet is still
like he's another like thinker and researcher. Like it's time
for the thinkers, the doers, the writers, the ideas people
(22:49):
like all of that is happening, and I feel so
blessed to be in community because that right now is
the only thing I can't I don't want to fix
this government right now. I can't trust of government right now.
The only thing I can trust is us, and so
to be enveloped by us, I just love y'all and
thank y'all for that, and it encourage you to read.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
That's my CTA read.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
I think that's a good time to say welcome home,
y'all because this will always be a safe space and
we were gonna keep building. We're gonna figure it out
because you know, what we don't have is any other choice.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
How about that? Welcome home now.
Speaker 6 (23:37):
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Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well come, welcome, Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
So y'all you know we're continuing this conversation that we
began uh on the original pod and we just y'all know,
we keep.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Talking, we keep uh, we keep it moving, keep it going.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
And the topic of conversation was really being about how
it is what will it take for us to feel
the impact of what's happening in our country and our communities.
What will it take for us to get up and
respond and not just respond when it's all the way
in our house, but respond as a.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Way to prevent the problem coming and hitting us directly.
And Angela, you you were, you were, you were offering
some perspectives, Tiffany, obviously you you as well. Angela.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The thing I was going to say in response to
where your comment had left off, when you were giving
examples of sort of the beloved community, the building of
the beloved community, growing your own food, living amongst each other,
Tiffany refers to it as you know, the building of
our wakanda. And the truth is is I believe and
(01:15):
I don't think that this is in disagreement with y'all,
but I just wanted to call out that some of these.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Ideas will feel luxurious.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
To some of the folks who are on the listening
end of it, Like I can't wait to get to
the point where I can, you know, invest, buy some
property in the south and move. I want to get
out of my rental situation right now and start to
own a home.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Really is my next step. But I'm not in position
to do that right now.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
And the only point I was going to make around
the various ideas of how we yes keep ourselves safe
and stay safe and build safety for our community is
that the battle is happening on all sides. It is
coming down on us left, right, front, back. The stuff
we haven't even gotten to yet, but we see it
(02:01):
coming down the pipeline, so much so that the dizzying
feeling that I think many people feel that causes us
to just pull back and check out is exactly the intent.
That's the purpose of the speed at which the enemy
is moving. It is intended to disorient us. It's intended
(02:25):
to throw us off our game and to even in
some way absence us from the problems that we know
we gotta face right now today on the belief that
maybe this is a bad nightmare, and tomorrow when we
wake up, it's going to be different. I only throw
this out to say I'm in full awareness that my
fight about fam you may feel very passionate and personal
(02:46):
to me, even if I feel like that fight is
impacting all of us, because that's what I've got, that's
where my energy lies right now. But that's not to
say that if you're not fighting that fight, that you're
not fighting. You're fighting, but you're fighting your own different set.
And I don't want anyone to walk away thinking that
we're attempting to judge your level of involvement engagement because
(03:09):
you're not on my fight. You may not be on mind,
but I assure you you might be. You're probably on
your own. And I was feeling in our conversation that
the approach felt more like judgment, even if that judgment
comes out of a place of love.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
I have a little bit rather than I had a
little bit of judgment for people who are like well,
that they voted for and who cares, and that ain't
my problem.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
Like I do have a little bit of judgment. It
may not be a good thing and.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Should reminded you that that was what you both were
saying as well as a different points.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
It's also just not true.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
It's just it's I think I think it was what
you were saying.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I'm irritated because it's not true.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And I am what's not true.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It's not true that that's what they voted for, Like
I think, I oh at that point, I think that
what we have to.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Come to terms with is that we are all going
to reap the collective consequences, whether we voted for it
or not, or whether we voted at all or not.
And I think that is the frustration, that is the
point of irritation for.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Me, and on you always telling us that you can't
disqualify person's feelings. These are my.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Feeling these are my feelings. I'm telling you my feelings
right now.
Speaker 6 (04:24):
I'm irritated by it, and I'm also saying I really
do feel concerned for all of us.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I do.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
I think that my biggest feeling right now is fear
for all of us, because I'm seeing a lot of people,
some who, because of their consistent like no reprieve from suffering,
don't see this moment as any different so that's concerning.
Am I fear for the people who are checked out
(04:54):
because they some of them are remarkably talented and resourced
and strategic, and we can utilize.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Them right now.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
And I feel.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
Afraid for like our elders and the youngers who are
kind of helpless and not like they can't think or
anything like that, but they they're relying on the strong
ones to kind of pull through. So I think I'm
I'm feeling the convergence of all those emotions.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Your own safety, which we'll talk about next week.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Yeah, but I still feel like even above my own safety,
like to me, La Monica is more in direct harms
way than I am by far, you know.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
So I just I'm just like that.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I mean, there's she's been charged by the Department.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Of Justice, right, but I just I don't know if
that's true. I don't want to get into because I
don't want to say anything I'm not supposed to say.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'm telling you for a fact that's true based on
what I.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Don't I don't know, that's all I'm saying. Well, I'm
telling unless you know I'm worried about y'all equally, Okay, Well,
if you know about a warrant for my arrest, then
tell me on air, but I don't know one, And
I say, but I'm based based on what I know
from legal and everything else. I am not in harm's
way like that, So I just am saying it's it's
(06:12):
a it's disheartening because where we are is we've created created.
I won't I don't even want to say we some
of us, some of our folks, have created an unnecessary,
hierarchical us versus them. And I think some of it
is our own blindness and our own ignorance over time,
(06:33):
and how we've approached our folks, like the most important
thing they could do is vote, when you trying to
pay feed your kids is not a good strategy. So
I just think and it's and it's it doesn't.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
It's not feel with compassion either, So I just I
really hope that we can pivot in this moment.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
And I think, you know, it's interesting the outlook about that. Well,
I'll ask you about your situation. We'll talk more about
that next week, because I feel like we're having an
inside conversation and I viewers don't know what's going on.
But we'll talk more about that next week, So be
sure you guys tune in next week. And while we're
at it, please be sure you're liking and subscribing and
(07:10):
listening to this content and telling friends about it. But
I think you know a part one. I want to say,
see you, Andrew. I hear you in the sense that
people like, oh, maybe I can invest it by a
house in the South, but that's luxurious.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
I got to tell you. I've been touring neighborhoods all
across the South.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
The past January.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I haven't been back to Florida, but there are actually,
and I don't want to say where, there are actually
black towns that exist like this, where they are growing
their own food.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
I've seen I don't sync with my eyes and talk
to them with my ears or talking to them my
ears talked to them.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
That's good, talking on the.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Ears, exactly.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
I was going to say, it's a message in that.
But those towns exist, and I remember saying, like, gosh,
I want to profile you guys. I want to talk
about this now. I want to talk about the things
y'all do. Y'all got black owned grocery stores that like
the whole town, and they've been saying no you shouldn't like,
why do they want to be on the radar like that?
(08:15):
And so it's angel I think we talked about this
early on, about moving in silence. You know, you don't
have to tell everybody your plan, yes, and so I'm
not getting too detailed in my plan, but I've been
doing serious research, writing and looking into what it would
look like. And Charles Blow wrote a great book about
it about reshaping political power, which is, to be honest,
is not where my.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Mind is right now. My mind is on safety. I
don't know exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Right now, that's right.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
In my first book, I wrote about the fact that
people look at black folks as commodities, you know, like
we're just voters, and even they are saying like if
you don't vote, you don't count.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
You know, the double is a line like I count
because I'm a human being. I count.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
If I don't contribute anything to this world, I count.
And so it's hard for me to fingerwag at people
who feel frozen in this. But I share your frustration
and irritation, Angela, because one, I've just never been able
to check out. But even being so checked in like that,
being pummeled with information every day, and what's happening every day,
(09:20):
It's like what the fuck? Like, I don't even know
what to do, And so the only thing I could
think to do is like, I'm gonna go out and
look for safety. Where can we build? Where can we create?
What does that look like?
Speaker 5 (09:30):
So I don't know, y'all. Can I tell you? Who
were asking? I don't? The answer is, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Can I tell you this?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Andrew?
Speaker 5 (09:36):
I want and I want to hear from you.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
It's just I want to just point out the fact
that us talking about creating safety and insulation for black
folks is not new. Black folks have been doing this
since the beginning of time. And even when we did
that that was threatening to white folks, they tore it down,
they burned it down, they put highways through it. We've
been talking about that on the tour or killed it,
(10:00):
been saying that every single week. She is we rebuked
that spear of death. But yes, I'm telling you, like,
this is not new. And we have so many communities.
We were in one in Durham, Black Wall Street in Durham,
we were in where were we just the other day
in Richmond where that was another Maggielina Walker look her up.
(10:20):
Like black folks were starting banks and when we were thriving,
they ran a highway through the thing. So we've always
been doing this, but we have to figure out a
way when we do it this time that it doesn't
get destroyed by a white accusation. Right, gentrification, transportation infrastructure
that doesn't serve us, imminent domain, adverse possession airs, property.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Law, like all of the things.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying like we have to be
mindful of the fact, like we're not talking about doing
nothing new and innovative.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh oh, my friend, that's not a lesson for me.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I was saying it for you. I was just saying, like,
for every.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Want to communicate a thing. I visit those hamlets and venues.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Very often with family, both in Alabama and in Georgia
and even in parts of Florida. Rosewood, don't forget that
was also Florida. So I don't just qualify that. I
think that is exactly where we ought to be thinking
and planning. But I also think we've got to be
(11:28):
thinking and planning everywhere right now. If your fight is
how we build the beloved community, and mine is how
do we make sure we keep institutions of higher learning
open since they have been the largest singularly the largest
shifter and wealth amongst Black people over the arc of
history of our people. It's how we've moved into middle
(11:50):
classes and beyond, and by our example is how our
cousins and them have moved right behind us in those
same directions. So everything feel urgent and if there and
I don't think we're out of solutions of what we
can tell people specifically what you can do. You may
not like what that specific thing may be, but there
(12:10):
are a lot of specific things that you can do.
I mentioned protests. Maybe that wasn't sexy enough, but guess
what it is getting results? Lawsuits? Again, maybe not sexy,
but it's yielding lawsuits. When you think about the number
of executive orders that Trump has has signed himself, and
how many of them he can probably count on one
(12:31):
hand how many haven't been struck down or not in
some legal limbo right now, right he can count on
one hand, probably how many are not every other one
of them is caught up in these in the in
the coils of the wheels. So so it isn't true
that we're not winning. In fact, when we have pushed
back in regardless of the venue we have one or
(12:54):
are in are in the process of winning and are
on the winning count right now. Your silence certainly doesn't help.
But you standing on the corner repeatedly or calling you
a member and letting them know that you expect more
of them and you expect them to be your representative
and not the presidents. You do that repeatedly, and then
(13:15):
your neighbors do the same thing is having impacts. So
it may not be the sexiest thing, and it may
not be the thing you want to do. Everybody's not
going to be the Internet sensation. Everybody not going to
become the celebrity activists. That ain't your ministry right now.
But everybody has something they can do. Should they choose
to do it, should life lend itself to them being
able to do it, that's it. I don't have a complaint.
(13:37):
I wouldn't even prioritize which is most urgent and most important,
because that's not for me to decide for anybody. You
know what issues you are facing are that are most
urgent and important?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Who am I? But we all have urgent and important
going on right now.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I think Angela's frustration, which I may share is do something,
you know, like this idea like I'm resting. One is
the idea of I'm resting, and two it's the idea
of fuck everybody else because they didn't vote how they
should have.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Well, I want to I want to welcome both you
and Angela to Andrew's philosophy since before and then after
the election. And all I'm simply saying is that we
have to make room for welcoming others onto that ship
because a lot of people were there.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
But there's also which I'll talk about this at some
point this summer, but there's about what I'm writing about.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
But there's a lot of heartbreak that happened that election.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
It's just why I'm not in judgment, right, No, I
know you and I don't think any of us are
incomplete judgment.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I got a little judgment.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I'm just hoping to call you up. I call you out.
And I was.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
So it wasn't like one or two, it was one
after the next, like f them, that's the voting for
who cares? I know the well you know, and you
say any of them were bot farms, it was too many.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
It was tiff Tip Wing check the page and see
if they.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Chill on no public siment through TIFFs. So she's my vent.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
People Sometimes on Instagram you can tell their bots and
you can go to their page and sy but the YouTube,
these are consistent listeners because and I know that, because
they will say, Tiffany, You're getting all my nerves with
your doom and gloom.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
So I'm like, oh, you're.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Judgingly a long time, right completely, And these these people
been listening a long time. And to be honest, I'm
still not out of my doom and gloom. I mean,
a part of men is like we're about to go
through some ship like this is we are back to
like reconstruction days. This is back to Jim Crow days.
And I'm worried about bracing myself. I'm worried about my
(15:52):
immediate family. I'm worried about my friends, like all of
those things. And so for me, I do not do
well when it's and I'm running around and flapping my
arms in the circle. That is not how I approach.
I just can't function that way. Like, if it's chaos
around me, I'm gonna remove myself from it. I'm gonna
sit in quiet. Then I gotta think through ship myself.
Other people can act in haste. I always scold it
(16:17):
again for saying this person's name. I'm gonna say it again. Albert,
Like Albert is one of those people like if things
happen on the hill, but he's juggling, he can quiet
the noise in real time and act and hate. I
think angela maybe is something a skill you learn in
law school. Survival maybe, But it just seems like a
lot of people who are jaded have that skill, you know,
(16:37):
where it's like, give me the bullet points and then
I'm gonna figure something out.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
In some cases, they if it were quiet and calm,
they might create the tornado.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And be like and be like, now, what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Somebody the tornado.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
I can't take it. If it's a tornado, I'm going
the other ways.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Even I think their personal I do think that's a person.
I think their personality. Some people thrive well. And by
the way, thank god, because some of us I just said,
shut completely down. It's like the world has got to happen.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Let's go.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
About I give away if I think about with MSNBC,
you know, or Andrews like stuff with the campaign, like
what I'm not gonna do.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
If I'm watching y'all stand there, I'm like, come on, hell,
like I'm gonna turn you.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
That is because I'm worried. That's such a good example
after MSNBC.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Space that we can't feel for ourselves, can't.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You're in the middle of the forest. All you can
see is the branches in front of you.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
You can't figure that hell of a tornado. I just
I was frozen, you know, I was literally frozen. Angela
was like, Okay, let's go. We're gonna talk to this
person issuing a statement. We're doing this, this, and this.
Like if it were up to me, I would have
just laid on my couch probably for a week, you know,
like I can't even it was too much incoming. My
world had been devastated, My finances have been devastated. So
(17:54):
that is a great example of I don't thrive in chaos,
even when it's my own chaos. If I can't, I
need people who thrive in chaos at that moment.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
But here's the only thing I'm gonna tell y'all because
I think and I think this is true for both
of y'all too. Like I have actually seen y'all see
somebody else's chaos and you bust the damn move.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So that's not true.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
That's true.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
But I was gonna say, like with Tiff, I can
understand why Tiff is very regimented and structured. Andrew is
in that unless he's losing his phone, but he's like
that in most ways. He's right, he's ambidextrious, he's right.
But Tif, the thing that is remarkable about you is
I think in chaos you'll still be like, Okay, now
here's the structure. I can understand in this instant instance,
(18:42):
because it is chaos on every side, Like everything that
we could lean up against for safety is now in upheaval.
I can understand why you're like, well, the structure that
I will put in place is even disoriented and disorienting
for me. So I can't build where there's no foundation.
So I didn't understand how that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, we're that. But I would say this, I would
challenge you in your research, in your writing, when you're
going to the South for safety, to make sure that
you look at and I'm sure you probably already are
the things that we built historically, why did they crumble?
Speaker 6 (19:20):
Right? And that's one of the things that's helping me
right now with the tour stuff, and then going to
our Baltimore National convenient what worked about Gary? Y'all watch
the Nation Time documentary at home if you haven't already,
And what didn't Why did they give up or did
they give up after this that last meeting we met,
We met the youngest delegate in Gary Larry Ham in Newark, Right,
(19:44):
what are the things that we can do to learn?
That is why we cannot discard our elders, because they
hold the keys and the blind spots that we would
have if we don't take the time to listen to
what happened these young people, the bravery they have, the
gust of like let's just go, We're just gonna go
figure it out. Yes, y'all start running, but let me
(20:05):
also go back over here and check with this elder
about what might have went wrong and what we could
avoid going forward. So I would say, even while we're
building and talking about the migration and talking about farming
and talking about cooperative economics, we still got to figure
out where the loopholes and the challenges that have been
in the past. I suspect one of the big ones
(20:26):
is the people who were economically strong in those different
eras thought that they were invincible, and we're starting to
see some of that for the folks who felt like
they were invincible politically. The folks who thought they were
invincible invisible economically, and they're getting hit too. So now
they want the poor folks who've been experiencing the struggle
(20:48):
to carry the weight of what they're now experiencing too.
And these meds like we've been told y'all mother, like,
where y'all being? Yeah, you know, so we got to
figure out the balance. I think that some of that
may just be an apology for the blind spot. And
now we do have to build together because we ain't
got no choice. That is the position we're in. And
you could choose to sit at home and not do anything,
(21:09):
and you could choose to keep building with your rich friends,
or you could choose to keep building just with the hood.
But I will submit to you that is not sufficient
in the air we're in because we're all on equal footing.
If there was ever a democracy where we're all on
the same footingever, it is right now, real.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Quick, because we gotta go nigga our producer niggas like
we gotta got in the bay. But what Angels said
is so good because the Cole Post is something like this.
But it's like, it's only so much we gonna learn
from social media. Now is the time for reading and
when you say what went wrong when we're trying to
figure out it was next one, if you read about
(21:46):
what happened, then you can anticipate what's about to You
can anticipate what's happening and what's about to happen, and
two learning those infrastructures and what went wrong. And I
have to just give a really quick shout out to
our friendship circle on this podcast and beyond, because in
some of this reading, Cleveland Seller's name comes up a lot,
(22:08):
and I think about our brother Bakari, Michael Harriet's family
who's distantly related to Jim Clyburn and his family worked
with the Seller's family. And Van Newkirk, who is an
amazing writer at The Atlantic, whose dad is an AHBC president,
who Angela knows and works with, and the fact that
(22:28):
our elders produce these children, and we are all friends
now and Bakari is on the front. He doesn't talk
about it a lot, but Bakari is on the front
lines with so many fights. So I love that brother
for the work that he's doing. Michael Harriet is still
like he's another like thinker and researcher. Like it's time
for the thinkers, the doers, the writers, the ideas people
(22:49):
like all of that is happening, and I feel so
blessed to be in community because that right now is
the only thing I can't I don't want to fix
this government right now. I can't trust of government right now.
The only thing I can trust is us, and so
to be enveloped by us, I just love y'all and
thank y'all for that, and it encourage you to read.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
That's my CTA read.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
I think that's a good time to say welcome home,
y'all because this will always be a safe space and
we were gonna keep building. We're gonna figure it out
because you know, what we don't have is any other choice.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
How about that? Welcome home now.
Speaker 6 (23:37):
Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
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Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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