July 29, 2025 • 32 mins
Angela Rye speaks with state representative Justin Jones from Tennessee’s 52nd District (Nashville).
Rep. Jones hit the national political spotlight after being expelled from the Tennessee House for joining a gun control protest. He brings that same energy to countering the immigration raids that have been plaguing Nashville; recently, he was barred from even being in the same room as DHS Secretary Kristi Noem during her press conference in his district.
Angela Rye and Rep Jones discuss the politics of divide and conquer.
Rep. Jones and Rep. Pearson Expelled from TN House: https://www.npr.org/2023/08/04/1192068281/the-2-expelled-members-of-the-tennessee-3-win-back-their-state-house-seats
Immigration Raids in Tennessee: https://tennesseelookout.com/2025/05/06/tensions-run-high-among-officials-community-organizations-after-ice-enforcement-in-nashville/
Want to ask Angela a question? Subscribe to our YouTube channel to participate in the chat.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome
home everyone. This is another solo pod with Angela Rai.
I am Angelo Rai of Native Land Pod. For whatever reason,
I can't get that out today, but I'm here first
(00:22):
of all because we're doing this series that I think
is really important. We've watched you all debate feverishly in
the comments about what it means to care about immigration
migrants throughout the country, and I have been so disturbed
by the number of people who have rationalized why we
(00:44):
shouldn't care about deportations, or ice raids, or the separation
of families and communities, and it is I have made
it my mission because I think it is so important
to ensure that you all understand the ramifications of what's happening.
A lot of folks have said silly things that we've
talked about on the show, on the main show on Wednesday,
(01:04):
and on this solo pod. Just last week, when we
learned about Rodney Taylor from Georgia, people saying things like
I don't care, this isn't going to impact me, but
it happened to Rodney Taylor, and I do have an
update about Rodney Taylor. Just this week, he was placed
in solitary confinement. As you all know, Rodney has been
in iceed attention since January. He is being accused of
(01:29):
something he didn't do. He's in solitary confinement. He's accused
just of not going into his room and talking with
an aggressive tone. Can you imagine being held in ICE
custody over a crime that you were pardoned over when
you were sixteen years old. This man is now forty
six years old, So thirty years ago he was accused
(01:53):
of something, was pardoned for that thing, and now he's
in ICED attention. Rodney Taylor is one of many. And
what we have to make sure we're doing on this
program and everywhere with people with good conscience is spread
the word on people like Rodney talking about what is
at stake. Really, When ice raids our community, terrorizing our people,
(02:17):
separating families, breaking up economies, hurting companies, hurting loved ones,
hurting our neighbors and our friends, that's the type of
America I want to be a part of, one that
has compassion for our fellow neighbors. So today joining me
is someone who has deep compassion. You all first probably
(02:37):
got to know this young man when he stood up
against gun violence with two of his colleagues, was expelled
for them Tennessee House and was brought back by the voters.
The people will always have their say. His name is
Justin Jones. He represents District fifty two in Nashville, and
we have seen him like he always does, continue you
(03:00):
to stand for courage, even in the face of ice raids.
And so I want to bring Justin to this conversation
to talk about the impacts of these policies, these very
very harmful policies that are coming from the Trump administration,
and how he is witnessing hurt his own community, his
own constituency. Justin, thank you so much for making the time.
(03:21):
I know you are so busy doing the Lord's work.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Of course, it's great to be with the system and
any time you call, you and all be there.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, And I hope you know the same too. I
have been really, really just enthrall with this case of
Rodney Taylor. Justin is this gentleman. I don't know if
you've heard much about his case, but Liberian came here
on a medical visa when he was two and now
is awaiting deportation. He's supposed to have a deportation hearing
(03:50):
August eleventh, I believe, or August twelfth. I'm gonna verify
that before we get off. Maybe Lolo can help me
triple check that date. But I'm gonna go to the hearing,
and I'm trying to for my own consciousness, for my
own compassion and empathy, name and see the victims of
these raids and these detentions, these unlawful detentions, these unconstitutional detentions.
(04:15):
So I want you to just talk to us a
little bit about what is happening in Nashville and how
you're responding to this moment.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, I mean, what we're witnessing in my state is terror.
Just like Tennessee is the birthplace of the KKK, where
masks men used to come in the darken night and
cannap our people. And we're seeing mass men and planes
clothed with baseball caps going out at night snatching people
out of their vehicles, snatching them off the street. I'm
not providing any badge identification. This is not policing. This
(04:44):
is terror. This is not about public safety. This is
about terror. And racial profiling. And I heard a little
of your intro, and I want to say that if
they're coming for one of us, they're going to cover
for all of us. Eyes has just been given one
hundred billion dollars, making them one of the most powerful
militaries in the entire world. And who do you think
that's going to be deployed against. Going to be deployed
not just against immigrants but also against citizens soon. And
(05:05):
we're seeing that people who are even trying to now
get the legal process getting snatched from court proceedings where
they're trying to do things the quote unquote right way.
And so what we saw in Nashville the first week
of May was one hundred ninety six people detained predominately
in the part of nashvillere represent Southeast Nashville, the most
diverse part of our district. And there's over five hundred
traffic stops and they just saw people who are brown
(05:26):
and it was a joint operation between the Tennessee Highway
Patrol and ICE and they stopped them. They said, all
your tail lights out, we know what that means. Oh,
you have too much tin on your windows, we know
what that means. And stopped them pretexturally and took them
out their cars and gave them the ice. And many
of those people, we don't know where they've ended up,
if they are in Liberia, if they are in El Salvador,
if they are in Florida at this concentration camp that
(05:47):
they call alligator Alcolatraze, but which I call crocodile concentration
camp because that's what it is and that's what we're seeing.
We're still trying to get answers, but I'm so grateful
for you putting names onto these cases, because what the
Trump administration wants to do is say that these all
criminals where the majority of people stopped, at least what
we have the data are the data for in my state,
had never been charged with the crime, had never even
(06:08):
been charged with the misdemeanor. The majority people stopped had
never been in the criminal justice system, and yet we're
racially profiled and now we're still trying to locate them
for their families.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You know. Just then, the other thing that I that
I think is so important is you represent Nashville, but
you're a West Coast baby, and I think that this
is important context for some of our listeners and viewers,
because I think we just we're raised a little different,
Like we didn't have any choice but to be part
of a Rainbow coalition, because even though our numbers are,
you know, significant, they are not. They're nothing without the coalition.
(06:41):
And so I think we were kind of rooted in
the tradition of caring for other people's struggles. We know
that if we if we're struggling in one area, we've
got to fight for somebody else. But I do want
to get to the traffic stops you just raised. Ninety
four people I read from an article in June were
stopped with the Tennessee State Patrol. They were detained by ICE.
(07:02):
Do you know or do you have a sense for
how many of these people are African American or of
African descent.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I mean, the sad thing is I went to the
commissioner for the Department of Safety and Homeland Security to
get answers, and he says, we don't have any data.
We don't even know where they ended up. We just
gave them to ICE, so we don't even know the
demographic data. We don't know the reason why they were stopped.
And so when Christinoman came here, Christinom was here last week,
the you know, fascist Barbie, I don't know what you
want to call her, but she had a press conference
here and I simply went to try and get answers
(07:30):
about you know, they said, asked the federal government. So
I tried to ask, and she called the police and
said that I would be escorted out of my district
in the airport for attending a press conference in my
district as an elected representative, as a state represented for
this district. And so we don't know the demographic data,
but we do know that, you know, there are black immigrants.
You know, this is a racial justice issue. Whether you're
a Haitian, whether you're a Liberian, you know people are
(07:52):
being detained and racially profiled. And it's not a white folks,
it's black and brown folks. And we know again that
you know, James bad When wrote a letter to Angela Davis,
She's he said, if they come for you in the morning,
they'll be coming for me that night. And I think
we have to see this as an issue of solidarity.
This plantation politics of dividing and conquer serves none of us,
because they're coming for all of us, and we have
to embody the type of multi racial democracy that we
(08:14):
want our children and our future generations to hear it.
And that's why we should care about this issue. This
is a racial justice issue. This is an issue about
ending state sanctioned violence, because that's what's happening. And again,
any American citizen who thinks that this will not be
turned on them soon is not paying attention to the
new bill that just passes Trump administration one hundred billion dollars.
I mean, this is what we've seen right now is
(08:34):
just the tip of the spear. It's just the beginning.
It's going to explode. And what we can see these
folks in our community stopping citizens asking for our documentation,
profiling us because we are black and brown, and saying
that you don't belong here. And that's what this is
going to be utilized against, is weaponized against the American people.
So let's sound the alarm now and let's fight for
our neighbors, because that's what we are taught as a nation,
(08:55):
that we should care for our neighbors, that we should
care for the most vulnerable. That's what makes America with what
it ought to be.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, you know, I did read also in the Tennessee
and that five hundred and forty four people in Nashville
alone were detained by ice, and that was in June.
It was just saying since May, like since May second,
do you know how much that I know you don't
have demographic data, but do you have a sense for
how much that numbers increased? Because now we're almost at August.
(09:21):
I'm hoping it's not double that. Do you know that.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
They have been so scared to share the information with
us because Christy Noman came here and the same thing
with our state government. They put five people's pictures up
and said everyone's a criminal. They just gave us five pictures.
Said what about the other four hundred and fifty? What
about the other hundreds? They said, well, we don't have
information on them, but I know from their loved ones
some of their stories. One of the men was coming
from an overnight shift at walmart I worked late in
(09:45):
the night, taken by ice when he was trying to
get home to his partner. Another man was a volunteer,
a very well known volunteer in his Catholic church here,
a older man. It was actually his birthday and he
was snatched by ice at the gas station. Another mother
is a cook well known in the community, snatched by
These are members of our community, people who we see
when we go to the grocery store, their kids go
(10:07):
to school. You know, I mean this. These these are
folks who we know and and folks who are we
love us as our neighbors, and yet Ice wants to
portray them. All is criminal when what is criminal is
a violation of equal protection under law. What is criminal
is racial profiling. What is criminal are these pretextual traffics
offt rooted in profiling black and brown people. Because what
I do know is that out of those photos that
I did see, not one of them was a white person.
(10:29):
Not one of them was somebody who looked like the governor,
looked like the you know christy know, And that's that's
on purpose. This is not about public safety. This is
about racial terror and and and violence, because that's what
ultimately is happening. We had a case for kil Mar
Abrigo Garcia. He was well known. He was sent to
El Salvador against the ruling of a judge, and his
case is actually happening in Tennessee, in our in our
(10:49):
middle district of Tennessee, and what he was describing through
his attorneys, the torture he he went through in El Salvador.
No one should be proud of this, and and the
fact that we went to the court or and even
the magistrate judge that there's not enough evidence. You want
to portray him as a member of a gang. I
don't see the evidence. You want to portray him as violent,
I don't see the evidence. And so she actually ordered
him to be released from pre trial custody. But now
(11:10):
they're scared to release him because I said, well, if
you release him, we're going to deport him. So no
matter if even if he expisses his rights, they'll still
take him and send him back to this torture camp
that he was subjected to in El Salvador.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Which is just astonishing to me. I'm curious to know too.
You talked about some of the individuals and the type
of people they were in the community, the fact that
they are community members and it has caused rupture in
your community. Can you talk about some of the other
impacts you've seen People that are now moving out of fear,
you know, are probably afraid to congregate in public places
(11:44):
that you know there's economic impacts of these things, and
I'm working so hard. I don't know, if you know.
Our good sister not a jump fee of Baji, but
she's cautioned us about talking about immigration through the lens
of just economic impact. But I think justin honestly, it's
hard for us to reach some people any other way
(12:04):
because for whatever reason, there's a wall, wall and a
guard towards living in your humanity and just like, okay,
this is a family now divided. This is someone who was,
you know, upstanding citizen, who volunteered, who cooked, who said
hello to their neighbors every day. That's not sufficient. So
can you talk about some of the impacts you're already
seeing in your district?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah? I mean, you know, I serve on the Agriculture committee,
and one of the biggest industries being hurt in Tennessee
are our farmers. That's our number one industry, and they're
saying we don't. They already were having issues getting folks
to work, and now people are afraid to show up.
There's no white Americans volunteering to go being this ninety
degree humidity and heat right now to make sure that
we have food on our tables. You know what we
were seeing where parents afraid to pick their kids up
(12:47):
from school as we and we're getting where to start
the school year. Again, what we saw were people afraid
to get groceries. So I knew a group of grandmothers
here who were delivering groceries to immigrant famili because they're
afraid to go get nourishment and food for themselves and
their children. I mean, this is it's economically indefensible, it's
morally insane, and it's constitutionally inconsistent. What we're seeing this behavior.
(13:07):
It does have economic impact, but also has a moral
impact because I mean, I think there's something sick in
a society right now that that takes pleasure in this.
You know, I was, I was watching the news these
people wearing merchandise from that alligator Aquatraz, which is a
concentration canist, And there must be something sick in the
soul where you're celebrating torture and celebrating people being mistreated.
(13:28):
I mean, we know what that's like. We know this
sickness in America. But the economic impact we're seeing it
on our on our industries here, Restaurants who said, you know,
they don't have folks who are willing to you know,
come to work because they've been there for years and
they're afraid to show up. And so Kid Rocks bar
had to shut down, you know, like these on Broadway
here in Nashville, like because they thought there was raids
(13:49):
happening and so they had to shut their bars down early.
You know that. So it's coming home to Trump supported
Kid Rock his bass shut down on Broadway, and it
just shows that, you know, immigrants and and people of
color are the the lifeblood of our communities, you know,
the reason you know, why we have food on our tables,
(14:10):
the reason why you know we're able to have industries,
our industries, our manufacturing work are you know, transportation for construction.
I mean they know it. And and for them, you know,
they want to just exploit people of color, exploit their labor.
And if they really cared about illegal immigration, they would
go after these big CEOs who are exploiting people and
(14:30):
trafficking them there to do this this poverty wage work
for nothing and and and lowering you know, their costs,
but increasing their profit, but treating people like they're expendable
in objects. That's who we should go after. Go after
these corporations and who are exploring immigrant and labor and
people of color, that's who if they're really you know,
concerned about this, including the Trump hotel and his properties
who I'm sure rely on immigrant labor.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, that's a good point. To the hotel workers, whether
they're the bail staff or you know, folks that clean
the room's housekeeping staff. It is across the board going
to have I think, like huge impacts that we don't
even know beyond again, there's emotional human, kind of psychological
(15:12):
consequences that we know too well. I think it's important.
One of the things I really appreciate about you, Justin
is you don't just point out a problem and bring
attention to it from an advocacy standpoint. You also talk
(15:34):
about solutions. So what are some of the things that
the people can be doing to make sure that they
are supporting their immigrant neighbors coming to the aid of
their immigrant neighbors. So, folks who are in elected office
who may not necessarily have the courage that you have,
but maybe need a little kick in the butt, you know,
a little bit of inspiration to do the right thing.
(15:55):
What would you say to folks who are elected and
folks who are just community members of goodwill.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah. I mean. One of the bills I filed in
response to this, and I think it's the first Southern
state is House Built fourteen forty two. We Stop American
estopp Whact because another unintended consequence of these ice raids
is the issue of public safety. So this bill would
require all law enforcement to not wear masks and to
identify themselves because what we've been seeing with these unidentified
ICE agents is that people are impersonating ICE agents and
(16:22):
so women are essentially assaulted. There was businesses was raw
because somebody came in saying their ice and zip tied
their employees and then stole all the money. Women were
domestically assaulted and and sexually assault that I should say
by this man who said if he doesn't sleep with her,
he would deport her. I mean, and people have no
way of identifying. So if you care about ending human trafficking,
if you care about real public safety, then we should
(16:44):
all be against masked law enforcement. I mean, this is
not Star Wars where we have folks in you know,
drone suits, you don't know who it is, like. An
unmasked police force is something that should terrify us all
and particularly in the South. You know, I'm here in
Tennessee and we have literally a monument they had the
history of the ca a KK in this state, and
so people who mass themselves terrorized our people, and so
(17:04):
I think we should you know, I think we should
all push for transparency in our law enforcement. It's common
sense that a law enforcement agent should show their badge, should,
you know, identify themselves. So whether at the local level
the state level, I would push for your local and
state lawmakers to do something because we can take action
at those levels as well, because we know that Congress
is a slow to act, but they should have a
(17:25):
federal legislation that's similar to this as well. I think
also finding organizations to get involved with. We had a
great volunteer network here during the Ice rays of people
who did ICE watch, where they would drive around and
report via social media where ICE was making these pretextual
traffic stops. Because what would happen was they would they
would go on specific state roads that were in communities
(17:45):
of color, and just one after the other. I saw it,
actually went to witness this and tried to intervene and
explain people's rights to them. They would stop a vehicle,
and without even making clear their intention, they would say
they would reach in and pop the trunk. And so
I was there saying, hold on, you have a right
to say no, you know, telling the people you have
a right to say no. You have a right to
(18:06):
an attorney. You don't have to answer their questions because
people they see these law enforcement and the law enforcement
takes advantage of the fact that people don't know their rights,
and so like being out there letting people know their
rights as a law as a lawmaker, I went in
my oversight capacity because in Tennessee it was a joint
operation between ICE and Tennessee Highway Patrol, which is under
our jurisdiction. I used to be in the government Oversight Committee.
We have oversight over the Tennessee Highway Patrol and the
(18:27):
Tennessee Department of Safety. So I went and I was
asking the Tennesse Highway Patrol why were ICE vehicles, why
were ICE agents in state vehicles, and so trying to
understand the use of our tax payer money and to
say that our state should not be subsidizing this terror
and make sure that we find ways to vote against
it and challenge it within our jurisdiction as well. But
those are things that I'm saying like right now too,
like the grandmother's who I saw giving groceries out to people.
(18:50):
I mean, even just being a good neighbor. If you
know someone in your neighborhood who is an immigrant and
who may be afraid to just do basic things that
we take for granted, maybe just you know, share a
smile and say, you know, you need anyone to help
get groceries? Do you need to ride? Because the other
thing we're seeing is like a car pos system, because
people are afraid to drive themselves to work, So we're
seeing neighbors driving their neighbors to work, you know. I mean,
this is truly the spirit of you know, of community
(19:12):
right now. And I believe that community is the resistance
that we can rely on because we're not seeing a
lot of action. I've been very disheartened to see a
lot of people with political power but who don't have
a lot of political courage. And so it's going to
take the people standing up and leading in this moment
because history is looking at us. And I think the
reason why they cover their faces is because they know
that they're on the wrong side of history. And that
(19:34):
the power will shift and we will hold these folks accountable.
So they're trying to conceal their identities, trying to conceal
their role in this. But but we know that their
children will be ashamed of what they did when history
comes to look at this moment. Their children will be
ashamed of where their parents stood. And that's why they
won't even let me take a picture or identify themselves
to me as a lawmaker. They try to flashlight on
my face and one of them zoomed off almost hit
(19:54):
me with their car because they're so afraid of me
recording them. Does that seem like somebody interested in public safety?
I mean, it's really a dangerous precedent that we're setting
right now.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I got to ask you personally, justin you have a
lot of courage. You talked about political power. People want
political power, but they're not politically courageous. The world came
to meet you through your political courage, and I've got
to ask you, in a moment like this, you all
had to have thought when you took the stand you
(20:28):
did at the Tennessee State House that that was going
to be the worst that it got. And now we're
here you know, probably sixty years backslit sixty years in
terms of just our civil and human rights. Right. So
I'm curious to you what is driving your courage right now?
Is it the fear of going backwards? Is it the
(20:50):
debt to the ancestors? Is it the promise is something
better to folks who are a little bit younger than you?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
You know, just like a call and are you afraid?
And if you are ever afraid? How do you handle that?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah? I mean, you know, one thing I told people
last year when I was traveling around was that everyone's
talking about Project twenty twenty five now, But I said
Project twenty twenty five was Tennessee twenty twenty four. I mean,
we saw the beginning of this authoritarianism when they expelled
the two youngest black lawmakers for doing our job and
sought to make an example out of us, sought to
make a spectacle and say, if you dare lift your
head up, this is what will happen to you. And
(21:29):
so I did try and go around because we knew
what it was like to live in a state that
was enacting this Product twenty five agenda. Before this was
even written out, they tested out in state. It's like
Tennessee and Texas, Mississippi. We were the testing round and
so I think, you know, one thing that keeps me
hopeful is that we have been seeing these forces. I
live in a Maga Republican controlled supermajority, and I still
(21:51):
see my constituents standing up resisting this, finding ways to
fight back. I still, you know, have folks who come
to our office who say that we know that they
think they have the political power, but that does not
mean that we're not going to disrupt business as usual
and speak up. And I think that's what gives me hope,
is that even with the odds, you know, we come
from a state where the odds have always been against us,
(22:12):
people are still resisting and embodying what deep solidarity looks
like when they come after our immigrant neighbors, when they
come after you know, black folks who were getting brutalized
by the police. Because the same forces that are now
stopping immigrants with the same forces in twenty twenty beating
us when I was active at sleeping outside the capitol
for sixty two days, the same troopers so I see,
stopping immigrants with ice were the same troopers who took
(22:32):
me to jail eighteen times when I was arrested in
twenty twenty. And so that's why we have to address
this collectively. Because the forces they're they're united, and so
why are we not united. They're in solidarity with their
white supremacist agenda, whether they're Christian nationalists, whether they're techno
broligarchs like Elon Musk, or whether they're you know, just
these rabid races that we're seeing. They're in a coalition.
(22:54):
So why don't we build a coalition that is multiracial, multigenerational,
multi faith. And so what gives me hope are the
young people I see at the Capital each time. That's
what gave me courage to speak up on the house
floor when they cut off my microphone, because I saw
the thousands of students saying, do something, do something. We're
afraid to go to school, we're afraid to school students,
And they walked out of class even though they were
(23:14):
said they were told that if you walk out, you'll
be suspended. They said, well, if we stay here, we'll
be shot. So we're going to walk out. And they
came to the Capital demanding action, and the Republicans said well,
we can have a moment of silence for them, but
that's all we can have, and we have to get
back to normal business. And what is normal business in America.
It's the fact that gun violence is the number one
cause of death to children. I mean, it's the fact
that we know it's easier to get a gun that
(23:35):
it is to vote to get healthcare. I mean, that's
the reality. And so that's what gives me courage are
the students and the students who I have seen, who
I'm seeing showing up fighting for their parents, the students
who I see protesting and saying that you know that
they should be treated with dignity and human rights, and
their parents are not criminals, but they're members of our community.
And so I think what also gives me courage is
(23:56):
I was raised by my grandmothers, and you know, I
went to the universities here about my first teachers and
my best teachers were my grandmothers, who embodied what faith
and justice look like and who taught me that my
life was not just for myself, but it's for my community,
and it's about making life better for those who are
coming up after. And so I'm harriet and tested those
(24:17):
are my grandmothers, and they give me a lot of hope.
And my grandmother here, it passed, but I know she's
still you know, her prayers are covering me and in
guiding me. So yeah, I think that's what gives me hope.
And but I think what also gives me hope in
this time is that we have to have moral clarity
and urgency because I think, I do think that there
is such a thing as being too late, and I
think that we have to hold the line in this
(24:38):
moment and that it's easy to stop fascism authoritarianism at
the beginning, because as our rights are eroded, it's going
to get harder and harder to fight back. So now
some time to hold the line. Now, some time to
say we're not going backwards. Now is the time to
say that we have the tools still available to fight back,
So let's not get to a point where we don't
have them. And it's going to be much more difficult
where our rights are roaded. We're gathering where these podcasts
will be censored. I'm seeing a lot of universities in
(24:58):
Nashville I'm afraid to speak out because cause they're being
targeted right now, but that type of anticipatory obedience is
so dangerous up to our rights, and so the more
that we stand up and have courage, and the more
of us who do it, I think it's less risk
for them just targeting certain people, certain institutions, because they
recognize that we are a movement that is that is robust,
(25:18):
and that they again, if they come from one of us,
they're coming.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
For all of us, every single one of us. So
I want to give you the opportunity to call the
name or the names of any of the migrants from
your district are in Nashville. More broadly, who've been detained. Again,
we want to put a human name, a human face
on this issue because there are humans being impacted, those
(25:42):
who have both been detained and their loved ones who
have had to watch this or experience this. Again, when
we had Rodney Taylor's Beyonce on last week, just and
she's like, they have five children collectively and they are
just distraught by this. He was detained in front of
his kids. So I wanted to give you the opportunity
to do that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, I think the case that you know, we I've
went to every court case. I'm hearing for Kibo, I've
seen his his wife sitting in the front row. In fact,
it was so heartbreaking because it was during his his
child's kindergarten graduation, and neither parent could be there because
they were in court here and just to see the pain,
(26:24):
you know, to see the trauma that will come from that.
And his case again is being used as political footballs.
It's being used as a spectacle. The Trump administration has
done everything in their power to portray him as a criminal,
has demonized him. But even with all the evidence put up,
the magistrate judge said that it just didn't it didn't
(26:45):
check out, and ordered him to be released from preachild attention.
But now he's afraid that if he's released, I said, well,
we're going to deport him. So no matter if he's
right or wrong, he can't win. And that's not how
our justice systems should work. And I'm just and I'm
thinking of all the folks who have come still looking
for their loved ones. I'm still looking for answers. We've
we've tried to get answers, and we know that initially
(27:05):
many of these folks were taken into Knoxville and the
Putnam County to the Sheriff's office for being held. But
now they've been sent to either Florida or some of
them may have been sent out internationally. And the sad
thing is, and the cruel thing is, is that we
don't have answers. I don't know some of them. You know,
we're told that, oh, they got lost in the system.
What type of system is that where you're losing human
beings and it's this human trafficking, you know, So how
(27:30):
does that make any of us safe? And so I
hope that we continue to also lift up the unnamed
who are still trying to locate, and some folks who
don't have loved ones, who who know that they're missing
yet because they came here alone to this country, seeking
a better life, seeking the promise of America. And I
just want to remind, you know, particularly the white folks
who are you know, I've seen, like I told Christy
(27:51):
Nome when she came here, Gnome does not sound like
a Cherokee or chalk Tar Shawnee name to me, you know,
which means her people came from somewhere. And so they
are really believing in this this new vision and take
down the lady lady in the harbor that says, give
me your poor tired, huddled masses. Take her down and
put something up. Because this is not the promise of America.
(28:11):
And we know our Answerts has not come here willingly,
but we too are a part of this nation. And
this is you know, really what this is about. It's
about the fear that America is changing, that the demographics
are changing. So it's about enacting racial tear because in
the South we have a saying that a dying meal
kicks the hardest, and this meal of white supremacist patriarchy
is dying. It is losing power so that they're trying
to take us down with it, and we cannot allow
(28:33):
that to happen. So to all of the folks listening,
do not let us, do not play into the politics
of plantation, politics of dividing and conquer. But solidarity is
our strength. Solidarity is what will protect us. We will
keep each other safe. And you know, as they come
and try and make this about oh, that's not my issue,
I recognize that once they run out of certain folks,
(28:54):
then you are next. You know that that is the reality,
is that this is a system that is insatiable white supremacy, see,
and capitalism is insatiable. And so there's always going to
be a new group who is gonna have to be
used as a scapegoing targeted and and and and and
and attack and and it's gonna you know, it's gonna
be our people. It is our people, because there are
black immigrants, and those are our brothers and sisters. Those
(29:15):
are our siblings. And you saw what he said about Haitians.
You saw about what he said about black immigrants, how
he sees us already. And we saw the terror that
they want to an act on black folks and removing
temporary status from black immigrants, and so we know that
this is about our communities as well.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, well, Representative Justin Jones, you know, it is always
a pleasure to be in conversation with you and always
honored to go to war with you, not against you.
And I'm happy to do that. So we'll continue this
good fight, the righteous fight, uh, the kind of Congressman
Lewis talked about, which is good trouble. But it sure
(29:52):
would be nice to stay out of trouble for a
little bit. So if they would stop starting it, we
wouldn't have to finish it, but we will plan to
finish it the right way. We're gonna take that high
and get it done.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yi.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Brother, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Thank you appreciate you humanizing this issue and all your
work system.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It's my honor and my duty. Well, for those of
you at home who are watching, please make sure if
you don't know of Representative Justin Jones, he is not
a rising star. He's already a star and you all
can see it. He is walking courage, he embodies it.
There is not a single issue impacting humankind that he
(30:29):
is not sensitive to and fighting for. He's the kind
of leadership we need right now. So for those of
you who are in the state legislature and have been
doubting your courage, have been confused about what you can
do in this moment, please take the model of Justin Jones.
I love that he talked about the bill he introduced
and the duty that law enforcement has to be transparent
(30:51):
to show their faces, show their badges, and show what
obligation they have to the community, which they're clearly confused about.
Mentioned h B fourteen forty two house built fourteen forty
two in the state of Tennessee. Please look that bill up.
I know we don't have this legislative copy and paste
(31:13):
yet going y'all, but we'll have that soon. We need
you to be dropping this a template bill if there's
something good in a state house somewhere that you can
implement in your state house and introduce and hopefully get
that thing signed into law. Sometimes miracles happen even in
the places where the KKK was founded, and so we
need to hold on to that and put your marker
out there even if the bill can't get passed. Make
(31:34):
it clear where you stand in this moment. You have
an obligation to your constituents, You have an obligation to
the ancestors, You have an obligation to citizens throughout this
country to show where you stand in times of crisis
and unrighteousness and injustice. Please make sure you do the
right thing. That is the only hope future generations have.
So let us do the right thing. Let us keep fighting,
(31:55):
let us keep building and talking. You all know we
love to hear from you. Please send in your questions,
your comments, your thoughts, your strategic ideas. It's going to
take all of us to get through this really trying time.
And all of us to see true liberation in this
country until we get meet again, which will be on Thursday.
Native Lampid, I'll see you soon. Welcome home, y'all. Native
(32:32):
Lampid is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason
Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome
home everyone. This is another solo pod with Angela Rai.
I am Angelo Rai of Native Land Pod. For whatever reason,
I can't get that out today, but I'm here first
(00:22):
of all because we're doing this series that I think
is really important. We've watched you all debate feverishly in
the comments about what it means to care about immigration
migrants throughout the country, and I have been so disturbed
by the number of people who have rationalized why we
(00:44):
shouldn't care about deportations, or ice raids, or the separation
of families and communities, and it is I have made
it my mission because I think it is so important
to ensure that you all understand the ramifications of what's happening.
A lot of folks have said silly things that we've
talked about on the show, on the main show on Wednesday,
(01:04):
and on this solo pod. Just last week, when we
learned about Rodney Taylor from Georgia, people saying things like
I don't care, this isn't going to impact me, but
it happened to Rodney Taylor, and I do have an
update about Rodney Taylor. Just this week, he was placed
in solitary confinement. As you all know, Rodney has been
in iceed attention since January. He is being accused of
(01:29):
something he didn't do. He's in solitary confinement. He's accused
just of not going into his room and talking with
an aggressive tone. Can you imagine being held in ICE
custody over a crime that you were pardoned over when
you were sixteen years old. This man is now forty
six years old, So thirty years ago he was accused
(01:53):
of something, was pardoned for that thing, and now he's
in ICED attention. Rodney Taylor is one of many. And
what we have to make sure we're doing on this
program and everywhere with people with good conscience is spread
the word on people like Rodney talking about what is
at stake. Really, When ice raids our community, terrorizing our people,
(02:17):
separating families, breaking up economies, hurting companies, hurting loved ones,
hurting our neighbors and our friends, that's the type of
America I want to be a part of, one that
has compassion for our fellow neighbors. So today joining me
is someone who has deep compassion. You all first probably
(02:37):
got to know this young man when he stood up
against gun violence with two of his colleagues, was expelled
for them Tennessee House and was brought back by the voters.
The people will always have their say. His name is
Justin Jones. He represents District fifty two in Nashville, and
we have seen him like he always does, continue you
(03:00):
to stand for courage, even in the face of ice raids.
And so I want to bring Justin to this conversation
to talk about the impacts of these policies, these very
very harmful policies that are coming from the Trump administration,
and how he is witnessing hurt his own community, his
own constituency. Justin, thank you so much for making the time.
(03:21):
I know you are so busy doing the Lord's work.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Of course, it's great to be with the system and
any time you call, you and all be there.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, And I hope you know the same too. I
have been really, really just enthrall with this case of
Rodney Taylor. Justin is this gentleman. I don't know if
you've heard much about his case, but Liberian came here
on a medical visa when he was two and now
is awaiting deportation. He's supposed to have a deportation hearing
(03:50):
August eleventh, I believe, or August twelfth. I'm gonna verify
that before we get off. Maybe Lolo can help me
triple check that date. But I'm gonna go to the hearing,
and I'm trying to for my own consciousness, for my
own compassion and empathy, name and see the victims of
these raids and these detentions, these unlawful detentions, these unconstitutional detentions.
(04:15):
So I want you to just talk to us a
little bit about what is happening in Nashville and how
you're responding to this moment.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, I mean, what we're witnessing in my state is terror.
Just like Tennessee is the birthplace of the KKK, where
masks men used to come in the darken night and
cannap our people. And we're seeing mass men and planes
clothed with baseball caps going out at night snatching people
out of their vehicles, snatching them off the street. I'm
not providing any badge identification. This is not policing. This
(04:44):
is terror. This is not about public safety. This is
about terror. And racial profiling. And I heard a little
of your intro, and I want to say that if
they're coming for one of us, they're going to cover
for all of us. Eyes has just been given one
hundred billion dollars, making them one of the most powerful
militaries in the entire world. And who do you think
that's going to be deployed against. Going to be deployed
not just against immigrants but also against citizens soon. And
(05:05):
we're seeing that people who are even trying to now
get the legal process getting snatched from court proceedings where
they're trying to do things the quote unquote right way.
And so what we saw in Nashville the first week
of May was one hundred ninety six people detained predominately
in the part of nashvillere represent Southeast Nashville, the most
diverse part of our district. And there's over five hundred
traffic stops and they just saw people who are brown
(05:26):
and it was a joint operation between the Tennessee Highway
Patrol and ICE and they stopped them. They said, all
your tail lights out, we know what that means. Oh,
you have too much tin on your windows, we know
what that means. And stopped them pretexturally and took them
out their cars and gave them the ice. And many
of those people, we don't know where they've ended up,
if they are in Liberia, if they are in El Salvador,
if they are in Florida at this concentration camp that
(05:47):
they call alligator Alcolatraze, but which I call crocodile concentration
camp because that's what it is and that's what we're seeing.
We're still trying to get answers, but I'm so grateful
for you putting names onto these cases, because what the
Trump administration wants to do is say that these all
criminals where the majority of people stopped, at least what
we have the data are the data for in my state,
had never been charged with the crime, had never even
(06:08):
been charged with the misdemeanor. The majority people stopped had
never been in the criminal justice system, and yet we're
racially profiled and now we're still trying to locate them
for their families.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You know. Just then, the other thing that I that
I think is so important is you represent Nashville, but
you're a West Coast baby, and I think that this
is important context for some of our listeners and viewers,
because I think we just we're raised a little different,
Like we didn't have any choice but to be part
of a Rainbow coalition, because even though our numbers are,
you know, significant, they are not. They're nothing without the coalition.
(06:41):
And so I think we were kind of rooted in
the tradition of caring for other people's struggles. We know
that if we if we're struggling in one area, we've
got to fight for somebody else. But I do want
to get to the traffic stops you just raised. Ninety
four people I read from an article in June were
stopped with the Tennessee State Patrol. They were detained by ICE.
(07:02):
Do you know or do you have a sense for
how many of these people are African American or of
African descent.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I mean, the sad thing is I went to the
commissioner for the Department of Safety and Homeland Security to
get answers, and he says, we don't have any data.
We don't even know where they ended up. We just
gave them to ICE, so we don't even know the
demographic data. We don't know the reason why they were stopped.
And so when Christinoman came here, Christinom was here last week,
the you know, fascist Barbie, I don't know what you
want to call her, but she had a press conference
here and I simply went to try and get answers
(07:30):
about you know, they said, asked the federal government. So
I tried to ask, and she called the police and
said that I would be escorted out of my district
in the airport for attending a press conference in my
district as an elected representative, as a state represented for
this district. And so we don't know the demographic data,
but we do know that, you know, there are black immigrants.
You know, this is a racial justice issue. Whether you're
a Haitian, whether you're a Liberian, you know people are
(07:52):
being detained and racially profiled. And it's not a white folks,
it's black and brown folks. And we know again that
you know, James bad When wrote a letter to Angela Davis,
She's he said, if they come for you in the morning,
they'll be coming for me that night. And I think
we have to see this as an issue of solidarity.
This plantation politics of dividing and conquer serves none of us,
because they're coming for all of us, and we have
to embody the type of multi racial democracy that we
(08:14):
want our children and our future generations to hear it.
And that's why we should care about this issue. This
is a racial justice issue. This is an issue about
ending state sanctioned violence, because that's what's happening. And again,
any American citizen who thinks that this will not be
turned on them soon is not paying attention to the
new bill that just passes Trump administration one hundred billion dollars.
I mean, this is what we've seen right now is
(08:34):
just the tip of the spear. It's just the beginning.
It's going to explode. And what we can see these
folks in our community stopping citizens asking for our documentation,
profiling us because we are black and brown, and saying
that you don't belong here. And that's what this is
going to be utilized against, is weaponized against the American people.
So let's sound the alarm now and let's fight for
our neighbors, because that's what we are taught as a nation,
(08:55):
that we should care for our neighbors, that we should
care for the most vulnerable. That's what makes America with what
it ought to be.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, you know, I did read also in the Tennessee
and that five hundred and forty four people in Nashville
alone were detained by ice, and that was in June.
It was just saying since May, like since May second,
do you know how much that I know you don't
have demographic data, but do you have a sense for
how much that numbers increased? Because now we're almost at August.
(09:21):
I'm hoping it's not double that. Do you know that.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
They have been so scared to share the information with
us because Christy Noman came here and the same thing
with our state government. They put five people's pictures up
and said everyone's a criminal. They just gave us five pictures.
Said what about the other four hundred and fifty? What
about the other hundreds? They said, well, we don't have
information on them, but I know from their loved ones
some of their stories. One of the men was coming
from an overnight shift at walmart I worked late in
(09:45):
the night, taken by ice when he was trying to
get home to his partner. Another man was a volunteer,
a very well known volunteer in his Catholic church here,
a older man. It was actually his birthday and he
was snatched by ice at the gas station. Another mother
is a cook well known in the community, snatched by
These are members of our community, people who we see
when we go to the grocery store, their kids go
(10:07):
to school. You know, I mean this. These these are
folks who we know and and folks who are we
love us as our neighbors, and yet Ice wants to
portray them. All is criminal when what is criminal is
a violation of equal protection under law. What is criminal
is racial profiling. What is criminal are these pretextual traffics
offt rooted in profiling black and brown people. Because what
I do know is that out of those photos that
I did see, not one of them was a white person.
(10:29):
Not one of them was somebody who looked like the governor,
looked like the you know christy know, And that's that's
on purpose. This is not about public safety. This is
about racial terror and and and violence, because that's what
ultimately is happening. We had a case for kil Mar
Abrigo Garcia. He was well known. He was sent to
El Salvador against the ruling of a judge, and his
case is actually happening in Tennessee, in our in our
(10:49):
middle district of Tennessee, and what he was describing through
his attorneys, the torture he he went through in El Salvador.
No one should be proud of this, and and the
fact that we went to the court or and even
the magistrate judge that there's not enough evidence. You want
to portray him as a member of a gang. I
don't see the evidence. You want to portray him as violent,
I don't see the evidence. And so she actually ordered
him to be released from pre trial custody. But now
(11:10):
they're scared to release him because I said, well, if
you release him, we're going to deport him. So no
matter if even if he expisses his rights, they'll still
take him and send him back to this torture camp
that he was subjected to in El Salvador.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Which is just astonishing to me. I'm curious to know too.
You talked about some of the individuals and the type
of people they were in the community, the fact that
they are community members and it has caused rupture in
your community. Can you talk about some of the other
impacts you've seen People that are now moving out of fear,
you know, are probably afraid to congregate in public places
(11:44):
that you know there's economic impacts of these things, and
I'm working so hard. I don't know, if you know.
Our good sister not a jump fee of Baji, but
she's cautioned us about talking about immigration through the lens
of just economic impact. But I think justin honestly, it's
hard for us to reach some people any other way
(12:04):
because for whatever reason, there's a wall, wall and a
guard towards living in your humanity and just like, okay,
this is a family now divided. This is someone who was,
you know, upstanding citizen, who volunteered, who cooked, who said
hello to their neighbors every day. That's not sufficient. So
can you talk about some of the impacts you're already
seeing in your district?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah? I mean, you know, I serve on the Agriculture committee,
and one of the biggest industries being hurt in Tennessee
are our farmers. That's our number one industry, and they're
saying we don't. They already were having issues getting folks
to work, and now people are afraid to show up.
There's no white Americans volunteering to go being this ninety
degree humidity and heat right now to make sure that
we have food on our tables. You know what we
were seeing where parents afraid to pick their kids up
(12:47):
from school as we and we're getting where to start
the school year. Again, what we saw were people afraid
to get groceries. So I knew a group of grandmothers
here who were delivering groceries to immigrant famili because they're
afraid to go get nourishment and food for themselves and
their children. I mean, this is it's economically indefensible, it's
morally insane, and it's constitutionally inconsistent. What we're seeing this behavior.
(13:07):
It does have economic impact, but also has a moral
impact because I mean, I think there's something sick in
a society right now that that takes pleasure in this.
You know, I was, I was watching the news these
people wearing merchandise from that alligator Aquatraz, which is a
concentration canist, And there must be something sick in the
soul where you're celebrating torture and celebrating people being mistreated.
(13:28):
I mean, we know what that's like. We know this
sickness in America. But the economic impact we're seeing it
on our on our industries here, Restaurants who said, you know,
they don't have folks who are willing to you know,
come to work because they've been there for years and
they're afraid to show up. And so Kid Rocks bar
had to shut down, you know, like these on Broadway
here in Nashville, like because they thought there was raids
(13:49):
happening and so they had to shut their bars down early.
You know that. So it's coming home to Trump supported
Kid Rock his bass shut down on Broadway, and it
just shows that, you know, immigrants and and people of
color are the the lifeblood of our communities, you know,
the reason you know, why we have food on our tables,
(14:10):
the reason why you know we're able to have industries,
our industries, our manufacturing work are you know, transportation for construction.
I mean they know it. And and for them, you know,
they want to just exploit people of color, exploit their labor.
And if they really cared about illegal immigration, they would
go after these big CEOs who are exploiting people and
(14:30):
trafficking them there to do this this poverty wage work
for nothing and and and lowering you know, their costs,
but increasing their profit, but treating people like they're expendable
in objects. That's who we should go after. Go after
these corporations and who are exploring immigrant and labor and
people of color, that's who if they're really you know,
concerned about this, including the Trump hotel and his properties
who I'm sure rely on immigrant labor.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, that's a good point. To the hotel workers, whether
they're the bail staff or you know, folks that clean
the room's housekeeping staff. It is across the board going
to have I think, like huge impacts that we don't
even know beyond again, there's emotional human, kind of psychological
(15:12):
consequences that we know too well. I think it's important.
One of the things I really appreciate about you, Justin
is you don't just point out a problem and bring
attention to it from an advocacy standpoint. You also talk
(15:34):
about solutions. So what are some of the things that
the people can be doing to make sure that they
are supporting their immigrant neighbors coming to the aid of
their immigrant neighbors. So, folks who are in elected office
who may not necessarily have the courage that you have,
but maybe need a little kick in the butt, you know,
a little bit of inspiration to do the right thing.
(15:55):
What would you say to folks who are elected and
folks who are just community members of goodwill.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah. I mean. One of the bills I filed in
response to this, and I think it's the first Southern
state is House Built fourteen forty two. We Stop American
estopp Whact because another unintended consequence of these ice raids
is the issue of public safety. So this bill would
require all law enforcement to not wear masks and to
identify themselves because what we've been seeing with these unidentified
ICE agents is that people are impersonating ICE agents and
(16:22):
so women are essentially assaulted. There was businesses was raw
because somebody came in saying their ice and zip tied
their employees and then stole all the money. Women were
domestically assaulted and and sexually assault that I should say
by this man who said if he doesn't sleep with her,
he would deport her. I mean, and people have no
way of identifying. So if you care about ending human trafficking,
if you care about real public safety, then we should
(16:44):
all be against masked law enforcement. I mean, this is
not Star Wars where we have folks in you know,
drone suits, you don't know who it is, like. An
unmasked police force is something that should terrify us all
and particularly in the South. You know, I'm here in
Tennessee and we have literally a monument they had the
history of the ca a KK in this state, and
so people who mass themselves terrorized our people, and so
(17:04):
I think we should you know, I think we should
all push for transparency in our law enforcement. It's common
sense that a law enforcement agent should show their badge, should,
you know, identify themselves. So whether at the local level
the state level, I would push for your local and
state lawmakers to do something because we can take action
at those levels as well, because we know that Congress
is a slow to act, but they should have a
(17:25):
federal legislation that's similar to this as well. I think
also finding organizations to get involved with. We had a
great volunteer network here during the Ice rays of people
who did ICE watch, where they would drive around and
report via social media where ICE was making these pretextual
traffic stops. Because what would happen was they would they
would go on specific state roads that were in communities
(17:45):
of color, and just one after the other. I saw it,
actually went to witness this and tried to intervene and
explain people's rights to them. They would stop a vehicle,
and without even making clear their intention, they would say
they would reach in and pop the trunk. And so
I was there saying, hold on, you have a right
to say no, you know, telling the people you have
a right to say no. You have a right to
(18:06):
an attorney. You don't have to answer their questions because
people they see these law enforcement and the law enforcement
takes advantage of the fact that people don't know their rights,
and so like being out there letting people know their
rights as a law as a lawmaker, I went in
my oversight capacity because in Tennessee it was a joint
operation between ICE and Tennessee Highway Patrol, which is under
our jurisdiction. I used to be in the government Oversight Committee.
We have oversight over the Tennessee Highway Patrol and the
(18:27):
Tennessee Department of Safety. So I went and I was
asking the Tennesse Highway Patrol why were ICE vehicles, why
were ICE agents in state vehicles, and so trying to
understand the use of our tax payer money and to
say that our state should not be subsidizing this terror
and make sure that we find ways to vote against
it and challenge it within our jurisdiction as well. But
those are things that I'm saying like right now too,
like the grandmother's who I saw giving groceries out to people.
(18:50):
I mean, even just being a good neighbor. If you
know someone in your neighborhood who is an immigrant and
who may be afraid to just do basic things that
we take for granted, maybe just you know, share a
smile and say, you know, you need anyone to help
get groceries? Do you need to ride? Because the other
thing we're seeing is like a car pos system, because
people are afraid to drive themselves to work, So we're
seeing neighbors driving their neighbors to work, you know. I mean,
this is truly the spirit of you know, of community
(19:12):
right now. And I believe that community is the resistance
that we can rely on because we're not seeing a
lot of action. I've been very disheartened to see a
lot of people with political power but who don't have
a lot of political courage. And so it's going to
take the people standing up and leading in this moment
because history is looking at us. And I think the
reason why they cover their faces is because they know
that they're on the wrong side of history. And that
(19:34):
the power will shift and we will hold these folks accountable.
So they're trying to conceal their identities, trying to conceal
their role in this. But but we know that their
children will be ashamed of what they did when history
comes to look at this moment. Their children will be
ashamed of where their parents stood. And that's why they
won't even let me take a picture or identify themselves
to me as a lawmaker. They try to flashlight on
my face and one of them zoomed off almost hit
(19:54):
me with their car because they're so afraid of me
recording them. Does that seem like somebody interested in public safety?
I mean, it's really a dangerous precedent that we're setting
right now.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I got to ask you personally, justin you have a
lot of courage. You talked about political power. People want
political power, but they're not politically courageous. The world came
to meet you through your political courage, and I've got
to ask you, in a moment like this, you all
had to have thought when you took the stand you
(20:28):
did at the Tennessee State House that that was going
to be the worst that it got. And now we're
here you know, probably sixty years backslit sixty years in
terms of just our civil and human rights. Right. So
I'm curious to you what is driving your courage right now?
Is it the fear of going backwards? Is it the
(20:50):
debt to the ancestors? Is it the promise is something
better to folks who are a little bit younger than you?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
You know, just like a call and are you afraid?
And if you are ever afraid? How do you handle that?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah? I mean, you know, one thing I told people
last year when I was traveling around was that everyone's
talking about Project twenty twenty five now, But I said
Project twenty twenty five was Tennessee twenty twenty four. I mean,
we saw the beginning of this authoritarianism when they expelled
the two youngest black lawmakers for doing our job and
sought to make an example out of us, sought to
make a spectacle and say, if you dare lift your
head up, this is what will happen to you. And
(21:29):
so I did try and go around because we knew
what it was like to live in a state that
was enacting this Product twenty five agenda. Before this was
even written out, they tested out in state. It's like
Tennessee and Texas, Mississippi. We were the testing round and
so I think, you know, one thing that keeps me
hopeful is that we have been seeing these forces. I
live in a Maga Republican controlled supermajority, and I still
(21:51):
see my constituents standing up resisting this, finding ways to
fight back. I still, you know, have folks who come
to our office who say that we know that they
think they have the political power, but that does not
mean that we're not going to disrupt business as usual
and speak up. And I think that's what gives me hope,
is that even with the odds, you know, we come
from a state where the odds have always been against us,
(22:12):
people are still resisting and embodying what deep solidarity looks
like when they come after our immigrant neighbors, when they
come after you know, black folks who were getting brutalized
by the police. Because the same forces that are now
stopping immigrants with the same forces in twenty twenty beating
us when I was active at sleeping outside the capitol
for sixty two days, the same troopers so I see,
stopping immigrants with ice were the same troopers who took
(22:32):
me to jail eighteen times when I was arrested in
twenty twenty. And so that's why we have to address
this collectively. Because the forces they're they're united, and so
why are we not united. They're in solidarity with their
white supremacist agenda, whether they're Christian nationalists, whether they're techno
broligarchs like Elon Musk, or whether they're you know, just
these rabid races that we're seeing. They're in a coalition.
(22:54):
So why don't we build a coalition that is multiracial, multigenerational,
multi faith. And so what gives me hope are the
young people I see at the Capital each time. That's
what gave me courage to speak up on the house
floor when they cut off my microphone, because I saw
the thousands of students saying, do something, do something. We're
afraid to go to school, we're afraid to school students,
And they walked out of class even though they were
(23:14):
said they were told that if you walk out, you'll
be suspended. They said, well, if we stay here, we'll
be shot. So we're going to walk out. And they
came to the Capital demanding action, and the Republicans said well,
we can have a moment of silence for them, but
that's all we can have, and we have to get
back to normal business. And what is normal business in America.
It's the fact that gun violence is the number one
cause of death to children. I mean, it's the fact
that we know it's easier to get a gun that
(23:35):
it is to vote to get healthcare. I mean, that's
the reality. And so that's what gives me courage are
the students and the students who I have seen, who
I'm seeing showing up fighting for their parents, the students
who I see protesting and saying that you know that
they should be treated with dignity and human rights, and
their parents are not criminals, but they're members of our community.
And so I think what also gives me courage is
(23:56):
I was raised by my grandmothers, and you know, I
went to the universities here about my first teachers and
my best teachers were my grandmothers, who embodied what faith
and justice look like and who taught me that my
life was not just for myself, but it's for my community,
and it's about making life better for those who are
coming up after. And so I'm harriet and tested those
(24:17):
are my grandmothers, and they give me a lot of hope.
And my grandmother here, it passed, but I know she's
still you know, her prayers are covering me and in
guiding me. So yeah, I think that's what gives me hope.
And but I think what also gives me hope in
this time is that we have to have moral clarity
and urgency because I think, I do think that there
is such a thing as being too late, and I
think that we have to hold the line in this
(24:38):
moment and that it's easy to stop fascism authoritarianism at
the beginning, because as our rights are eroded, it's going
to get harder and harder to fight back. So now
some time to hold the line. Now, some time to
say we're not going backwards. Now is the time to
say that we have the tools still available to fight back,
So let's not get to a point where we don't
have them. And it's going to be much more difficult
where our rights are roaded. We're gathering where these podcasts
will be censored. I'm seeing a lot of universities in
(24:58):
Nashville I'm afraid to speak out because cause they're being
targeted right now, but that type of anticipatory obedience is
so dangerous up to our rights, and so the more
that we stand up and have courage, and the more
of us who do it, I think it's less risk
for them just targeting certain people, certain institutions, because they
recognize that we are a movement that is that is robust,
(25:18):
and that they again, if they come from one of us,
they're coming.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
For all of us, every single one of us. So
I want to give you the opportunity to call the
name or the names of any of the migrants from
your district are in Nashville. More broadly, who've been detained. Again,
we want to put a human name, a human face
on this issue because there are humans being impacted, those
(25:42):
who have both been detained and their loved ones who
have had to watch this or experience this. Again, when
we had Rodney Taylor's Beyonce on last week, just and
she's like, they have five children collectively and they are
just distraught by this. He was detained in front of
his kids. So I wanted to give you the opportunity
to do that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, I think the case that you know, we I've
went to every court case. I'm hearing for Kibo, I've
seen his his wife sitting in the front row. In fact,
it was so heartbreaking because it was during his his
child's kindergarten graduation, and neither parent could be there because
they were in court here and just to see the pain,
(26:24):
you know, to see the trauma that will come from that.
And his case again is being used as political footballs.
It's being used as a spectacle. The Trump administration has
done everything in their power to portray him as a criminal,
has demonized him. But even with all the evidence put up,
the magistrate judge said that it just didn't it didn't
(26:45):
check out, and ordered him to be released from preachild attention.
But now he's afraid that if he's released, I said, well,
we're going to deport him. So no matter if he's
right or wrong, he can't win. And that's not how
our justice systems should work. And I'm just and I'm
thinking of all the folks who have come still looking
for their loved ones. I'm still looking for answers. We've
we've tried to get answers, and we know that initially
(27:05):
many of these folks were taken into Knoxville and the
Putnam County to the Sheriff's office for being held. But
now they've been sent to either Florida or some of
them may have been sent out internationally. And the sad
thing is, and the cruel thing is, is that we
don't have answers. I don't know some of them. You know,
we're told that, oh, they got lost in the system.
What type of system is that where you're losing human
beings and it's this human trafficking, you know, So how
(27:30):
does that make any of us safe? And so I
hope that we continue to also lift up the unnamed
who are still trying to locate, and some folks who
don't have loved ones, who who know that they're missing
yet because they came here alone to this country, seeking
a better life, seeking the promise of America. And I
just want to remind, you know, particularly the white folks
who are you know, I've seen, like I told Christy
(27:51):
Nome when she came here, Gnome does not sound like
a Cherokee or chalk Tar Shawnee name to me, you know,
which means her people came from somewhere. And so they
are really believing in this this new vision and take
down the lady lady in the harbor that says, give
me your poor tired, huddled masses. Take her down and
put something up. Because this is not the promise of America.
(28:11):
And we know our Answerts has not come here willingly,
but we too are a part of this nation. And
this is you know, really what this is about. It's
about the fear that America is changing, that the demographics
are changing. So it's about enacting racial tear because in
the South we have a saying that a dying meal
kicks the hardest, and this meal of white supremacist patriarchy
is dying. It is losing power so that they're trying
to take us down with it, and we cannot allow
(28:33):
that to happen. So to all of the folks listening,
do not let us, do not play into the politics
of plantation, politics of dividing and conquer. But solidarity is
our strength. Solidarity is what will protect us. We will
keep each other safe. And you know, as they come
and try and make this about oh, that's not my issue,
I recognize that once they run out of certain folks,
(28:54):
then you are next. You know that that is the reality,
is that this is a system that is insatiable white supremacy, see,
and capitalism is insatiable. And so there's always going to
be a new group who is gonna have to be
used as a scapegoing targeted and and and and and
and attack and and it's gonna you know, it's gonna
be our people. It is our people, because there are
black immigrants, and those are our brothers and sisters. Those
(29:15):
are our siblings. And you saw what he said about Haitians.
You saw about what he said about black immigrants, how
he sees us already. And we saw the terror that
they want to an act on black folks and removing
temporary status from black immigrants, and so we know that
this is about our communities as well.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, well, Representative Justin Jones, you know, it is always
a pleasure to be in conversation with you and always
honored to go to war with you, not against you.
And I'm happy to do that. So we'll continue this
good fight, the righteous fight, uh, the kind of Congressman
Lewis talked about, which is good trouble. But it sure
(29:52):
would be nice to stay out of trouble for a
little bit. So if they would stop starting it, we
wouldn't have to finish it, but we will plan to
finish it the right way. We're gonna take that high
and get it done.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yi.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Brother, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Thank you appreciate you humanizing this issue and all your
work system.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It's my honor and my duty. Well, for those of
you at home who are watching, please make sure if
you don't know of Representative Justin Jones, he is not
a rising star. He's already a star and you all
can see it. He is walking courage, he embodies it.
There is not a single issue impacting humankind that he
(30:29):
is not sensitive to and fighting for. He's the kind
of leadership we need right now. So for those of
you who are in the state legislature and have been
doubting your courage, have been confused about what you can
do in this moment, please take the model of Justin Jones.
I love that he talked about the bill he introduced
and the duty that law enforcement has to be transparent
(30:51):
to show their faces, show their badges, and show what
obligation they have to the community, which they're clearly confused about.
Mentioned h B fourteen forty two house built fourteen forty
two in the state of Tennessee. Please look that bill up.
I know we don't have this legislative copy and paste
(31:13):
yet going y'all, but we'll have that soon. We need
you to be dropping this a template bill if there's
something good in a state house somewhere that you can
implement in your state house and introduce and hopefully get
that thing signed into law. Sometimes miracles happen even in
the places where the KKK was founded, and so we
need to hold on to that and put your marker
out there even if the bill can't get passed. Make
(31:34):
it clear where you stand in this moment. You have
an obligation to your constituents, You have an obligation to
the ancestors, You have an obligation to citizens throughout this
country to show where you stand in times of crisis
and unrighteousness and injustice. Please make sure you do the
right thing. That is the only hope future generations have.
So let us do the right thing. Let us keep fighting,
(31:55):
let us keep building and talking. You all know we
love to hear from you. Please send in your questions,
your comments, your thoughts, your strategic ideas. It's going to
take all of us to get through this really trying time.
And all of us to see true liberation in this
country until we get meet again, which will be on Thursday.
Native Lampid, I'll see you soon. Welcome home, y'all. Native
(32:32):
Lampid is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason
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Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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