November 18, 2025 • 40 mins
Tanzanian President Samia won re-election on October 30th with an unbelievable 98% of the vote. The opposition has called the election results a “mockery of Democracy.
On this week’s SoloPod, a rigged election leads to social unrest and hundreds of protestors disappeared or killed.
Our guest is a local governance expert who was in Tanzania on election day working as a poll observer. Elizabeth A. Adundo-Yogo is going to tell us what conditions are like on the ground in Tanzania right now.
Want to ask Angela a question? Subscribe to our YouTube channel to participate in the chat.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native lamdpod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Native Lampod, as we say,
welcome home. Today is a show that is very different
from me. I normally spend most of my time really
analyzing what's happening and what is the current state of
affairs in the United States of America with our government,
with everything that's happening here. But today is different because
(00:31):
I wanted to go overseas. There is quite the crisis
brewing in Tanzania, and it's something that caught my eye
and I want to start here where many of us
would least expect with this TikTok bance. The dance was
(01:03):
conducted by a TikTok and social media influencer by the
name of Jennifer Niffer Jovin. She was jailed in Tanzania
and charged with treason on November seventh, along with more
than ninety other gen Zers. And the woman that you
saw crying right after that dance was her mother. Her
(01:24):
mother who pled for the government to give her daughter
a break. Her mother said, my name is Mamanisha Isaac,
I beg for forgiveness. I also did not like what
she did, and I am asking for forgiveness on behalf
of the entire family. My daughter is the breadwinner for
the entire family. We all depend on her, and we
(01:45):
ask you to forgive her and forgive us. And what
is remarkable about this is you might be saying, well,
what does this TikTok dance have to do with any
of this?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Why would her mother beg for forgiveness?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well, see, the the election in this country was held
on October twenty ninth. The president, the current president is
Sama Hassan, and she won that election allegedly by ninety
five percent of the votes. Gen Ziers have been motivated,
have been on the ground, have been fighting back, had
(02:20):
been pushing back a country that is known mostly more
for its silence when you compare it to its counterpart
in Kenya. And so this time, folks who have studied
what's happening on the ground in Tanzania said you shouldn't
have mistaken their silence for peace, and so folks hit
the streets. What Jennifer is being charged with is treason.
(02:44):
She's being charged with treason because one. They said that
the music that the dance video was set to was
offensive to President Hassan, that the president took offense to
the content, and she was then arrested. Jennifer was then
arrested alone, longside twenty one others who participated in what
they called an anti government demonstration. Now, her lawyer has
(03:08):
said that she's charged with treason for allegedly encouraging people
to buy face masks to protect themselves from tear gas.
She encouraged people to buy face mass to protect themselves
from tear gas. If she's convicted of conspiracy to commit
(03:30):
treason in Tanzania, that is a charge that is punishable
by death by hanging. So this is all happening right.
A week before the election in Tanzania, the government banned
the use of X again. October twenty ninth was the
(03:50):
date of those elections, where the president was said to
have won by ninety five percent of the vote. There
is an opposition lee who has also been jailed in Tanzania,
and I want to just read you briefly what Chairman
Tundulisu said on X again, the platform that was banned
(04:11):
by this country a week before the election, but on
October twenty sixth, which also happens to be my birthday.
The chairman had this to say, my brothers and sisters,
and I hopefully we can pull it up for our
screen as well, my brothers and sisters. For several weeks now,
I have been placed under total isolation, a state of
(04:34):
forced loneliness. The fellow inmates who once shared my sale,
all of whom had been sentenced to death, have been removed.
I have been left completely alone. My cell is now
fitted with the surveillance cameras that record everything I do,
even when I relieve myself or change clothes.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I no longer have.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Any privacy whatsoever is a matter of security. It is
a deliberate act meant to humiliate my human dignity. I appeal.
I appeal for this matter to be raised loudly and forcefully,
because it is a blatant violation of human rights and
an offense under the United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for
(05:21):
the Treatment of Prisoners, the Mandela Rules, which clearly state
that the inherent dignity of every human being must be
respected even when imprisoned. Rule one prolonged or indefinite solitary
confinement that denies a prisoner communication with others amounts to
cruelty and torture Rules forty three and forty four. It
(05:43):
is also a violation of the Constitution of the United
Republic of Tanzania Articles twelve and thirteen, which guarantee the
dignity of every person and prohibit torture or degrading treatment.
I am prepared to endure any hardship for the sake
of my belief in justice and the freedom of our people.
But the humiliation of human dignity can never be acceptable,
(06:07):
not for me nor for anyone who bears the name
of a human being.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I know.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
We also have a clip of the United Nations Human
Rights spokesman who spoke out about what's happening in Tanzania,
and we will get to that. But first I would
like to bring to you all a governance expert who
has studied what's happened with the elections in Tanzania. Her
name is Elizabeth Adongo Yogo and she joins us. Now
(06:38):
it's some good pleasure here and we have a little
bit of a delay, but Elizabeth is with us.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I want you to talk to us about what you
saw in the Tanzanian elections. When you went to be
an observer, please tell us what you saw.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
So I watched Tanzania on the twenty eighth, the twenty seventh,
we were going, all the observers were going for the
brief from the ee Neck offices, which is a known
for every election observation mission. And so when you got there,
we found that there were not any brief materials, no documentation,
(07:18):
and even the chair of the IPECH that is the
Independence National and Electional Commission, was not there to talk
to us. And so that team that had come from
Kenya from other missions, because I was I was representing
the African Liberal Network. There's a team from the East
African Community and Armand's other conglomination. They saw what was
(07:43):
happening and they say they could not be there because
that was a direct violation of I mean, no election
happens like that. There must be some order for every election.
And so when they left, I decided to stay back
and just report for I had seen, because I thought
maybe there could be other issues that were beyond their
(08:05):
patron and that's why the briefing wasn't done. So I
sat there for about three four hours and I decided
to just go back to my hotel room and go
back the following day to start to work. So on
the twenty ninth, I woke up very early. Of course,
the elections were starting at seven am. By six thirty
(08:28):
year I was in my stations because I was assigned
to stations. So the first station I went through, there
was no one apart from the election agents, apart from
the police that is the normal police, the security apparatus
that was there, and then me as an observer. Thirty
(08:51):
minutes went by, nobody was coming to cast their ballot,
and it was unsettling because during an election time, what
is eager to I mean to just everybody is normally
eager to just exercise the democratic right. But that wasn't happening.
Thirty minutes later, about a few minutes to eight am.
(09:13):
That was about for five minutes later, I decided to
go to my next station just to see what was
going on. Maybe there was a problem with where I was.
So as I was leaving the station, I saw a
track load of army personnel and it was kind of
scary because every time you see the army, it means
the country is under attack. And I went back in
(09:37):
to compose myself and one of the army guys walked
in and I asked him if there was a problem,
and it was like, no, there's no problem. I was
just monitoring what's going on. And then I left to
my second station. And now at the second station, it
was clear that the station was under the army. Remember
(09:58):
the first station, I didn't see anyone coming to cast
their ballot. In the second station, I walked in and
the place was full of army. So that means you
cannot record anything you're seeing. You're just there to serve
and leave. So while there, I counted fifteen ladies only
who are in the queue, either coming out from voting
(10:20):
or somewhere on the queue, and at least there was
some semblance of life. There was something going on there.
So I stayed back and just see what was going
to happen, like just out the number of people and
maybe talk to them and ask why it is there,
Lord turn of dough. We had no why. And a
(10:40):
few minutes to one to midday, some youth were coming,
you know, just saying there are no elections here. I
cannot have elections, no reforms, no elections, And now everybody
had to run for their dear life, because you know
the army is already there and they armed. Then there
are these protests were there, and then there are people
(11:01):
who are the few women who are the que voting,
so that at that particular point of time, just want
to save your life because there was already a build
up was already building up even in the country. Even
getting into the country itself was a problem. They would
question us so much know what we were going to do,
and I forgot to measure that. Even getting the accreditation
(11:23):
was a big problem, like we wait. We had to
work for six months, which was very, very unusual. So anyway,
violence happened. And there is a lady, a kind of
lady who stays near where I was going, and I
told her, I am in this place and I may
pass by to see you before I go back home.
Because my brief was go to Tanzania, see what they're doing,
(11:47):
and come back home. Because even in we're going to Tanzania,
there were already issues of when to Tanzania, already told
that there were demonstrations on that day, so you were
ready for that. So I was just going to Jazania
and see what was happening. And then by three o'clock
take the flight back to Kenya. So I told my
(12:09):
friend that I'll pass me to see you on my
way to the airport. But now that wasn't to be.
So I decided to go back to the hotel and
just hung out and see how the situation will be.
But when I got to the hotel, that's when I
realized there was no power. There was no water, and
there was no electricity. Remember there is a lam Is,
(12:33):
a very hot city. Were doing about that a two
degrees cetebrate, so you can imagine no aces, no water,
like the basic human needs were not there absolutely, And
so in the evening that ill cares us that they
don't work foreigners in there, meaning we're on our own.
(12:54):
So I went to my friend's house. It was very risky,
but I had to move because I couldn't stay while
you already told you can't, you can't, you can't be there.
So I went to my friend's house and that we
stayed there. That night. We could not sleep because I
just gun shots all over. The guy just went shooting
a furtherly like the the brief was if you see
(13:17):
anything moving, shoot at it. Yeah. So that was Wednesday,
Thad the same thing. On Friday, something dramatic happened to us.
I was in the bathroom taking my shower that day
we had the water. What I came on that day,
the day the day that the President Samye Sluapin sworn in.
(13:40):
They gave us, they gave us. I was in the
shower and I had my phone and I was listening
to music, and so my mind was just there. And
shortly after the lady I'm living with comes to where
I was screaming that how they hurt you? Have they
hurt you? Are you okay, Lizay, You're okay? Nothing? What's
(14:00):
going on? And she tells me these people are shooting
at us in the house. So when we checked the house,
we found the they're known as cartridges, spent bullets. They
were shooting at us in the bathroom and they could
get into the house. That's how bad the situation was
inters near. Remember that time, there's no internet and there's
(14:23):
no power, so we cannot communicate with anybody, and people
at home are really worried about us, and we were
just there. You cannot seek any help. But by good luck,
I don't know what my daughter did, and somehow I
saw her phone call coming through and it was like
seeing God. Literally we was tacked. So I just tell her.
(14:47):
I just told her I'm in this location, like the
nearby what is it called the nearby sign that I
could get like a landomark, the nearby landmark. It was
near a church. And I tell her, if you talk
to anybody, tell them I am near this church. And
so that is how. Now my husband had to speak
(15:09):
to the foreign affairs foreign affairs in turns are near
and other agencies. And I got out of there on
a Sunday morning. So when I was lifted to my Robbie,
so as we were leaving the house through the airport,
there were two groups of people. There were, of course,
(15:31):
there were roadblocks monitored by two groups of people. One
was the army itself. Yeah, and whenever I passed them,
they will tell me. They will ask me who I was,
and I will tell them a man, observe, I'm going
back to my country and don't question me and tell
me that don't say what you've seen here, and I'll say, no,
I don't have any issues. I just want to go
(15:52):
back home, you know. Then again I will meet protesters
and they will tell me when when you get to
like Robbies safely, tell the world what is happening in Tanzania. Remember,
I could pass bodies, dead bodies of children and women
on the streets we were going to the airport. There
was a lot of damage done by the protesters, you know,
(16:15):
they running battles and on the marketplaces, the bus stops.
There was a lot of damage done. But what was
striking or the dead bodies and they were just lying
on the streets and they really didn't care that particular time.
They were just I think they just the immediate or
(16:35):
their priority was just to ensure that the president was enthroned.
That's all they cared able. They didn't care about anybody.
And yeah, it was not a very good site. Closed
one horrific and terrible week.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Elizabeth, what what was the reason what pulled you to
Tanzania to be an election observer? Why would you risk
your life, really truly risk your life to go and
ensure that you could see what was happening there? That
would that would make you leave and say to the protesters,
(17:34):
I will go back and tell the world what I
saw in Tanzania.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
What drove you to do that?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
One of my reasons forget Tanzania was that everybody was
shying away from going there. Given before the elections. We know,
you know, the arrests of the of the opposition leaders,
the disappearances of the people, the civil society are people
and so the haarbituary arrest of anybody who was against
(18:02):
the government. So Tanzania is my neighbor, and not ever
affects Tazania affects me as a person as I was
just curious to go and see is it true that
this is happening in Tanzania, Because for a very long time,
Tanzania has been the cool kid of the of the
region in Africa. The country that has been peaceful has
(18:25):
been Tanzania. But I realized it has been a fast
It's not true. They're just peaceful because they're not able
to express themselves. But this time they decided enough was enough.
So I was just going to see is it true?
What we are? What we are, what we are reading
all the media all Tanzania. That is all drove me
to go there and seeing it firsthand. It opened my
(18:50):
eyes to the problem that not only Tanzania's face, but
the old region is facing. You know, I'm having this
fa sad that all is well. I was saying that
people are peacefully at people are not peaceful, and they're
not happy with their leadership.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I'm curious too, and I'm going to be honest with
you in saying, you know, a lot of what is
happening in America right now is causing me personally to
look into different governments that have been under authoritarian regimes
and reading about Tanzania's current president, the way in which
(19:29):
the election was one, the ways in which they're trying
to change the rules around elections here in America, and
the things that we're saying but really have not felt.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
The brunt of yet.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Given your vast experience in this space, can you tell
me and to our audience, what are the signs right
that a dictator is coming? What are the ways in
which people have to lean into their power to prevent
something like this which happens with these slow drips? Are
the ways that we prepare ourselves and prevent dictatorship from
(20:05):
coming here?
Speaker 3 (20:08):
First of all, I believe that dictators behave like you
know when you're in a relationship with the narcissist. Because
even when this lady came, the whole region was very,
very happy, one of the things that she did was
to do away with the bad law that had been
passed by her predecessor as she embraced the opposition. But
(20:29):
for me, I think in the long run, she was
just trying to test the waters to see how far
she could go, and by doing so, she brought everybody
on her side, and everybody who could speak was compromised.
And then when she strived that by bringing bad rules,
you know, by ensuring that they do you know, finally
(20:52):
that the since and party that is the ruling party
in Tazania has domicide the elections. For me, like it's
part of the ruling party and nobody can speak against
it because she has given everybody she's done favors for
everybody around her, so you cannot speak. Yeah. And then
(21:13):
now when she was coming for the for the for
the opposition leaders, no one could stop her because everybody
hold her favors. Remember, even there are some Kenyan activists
who are sexually assaulted in Tanzania, but my country didn't
do anything because well, the East African communication and agans
(21:39):
and so I believe we need to strengthen our institutions
such that it doesn't matter who comes the rules that
are there, the structures that are there are the way
they are supposed to be. Nobody messes up with anything
because every time you you you let your guard down,
(22:02):
and notitarian gets a foothold in it, and by the
time you know the system has had people will go
singing her tunes and there's nothing that can be done.
Look at the army, for instance, in Tanzania. Who is
running the army at the moment. Yeah, so when she
tells the army that I need you in the streets,
(22:23):
nobody will question that because they are the aligias. Those
are people that she's been able to buy and to
and to give favors through. Yeah, so my tear. Would
we just have strong independent institutions, strong independent institutions.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
When you think about the role that gen Z played
in the protests in Tanzania, we're starting to see young
people all over the world stand up use their voices
when they see something that's not right there, like this
is not right and I'm speaking up. What do you
say to gen Zers throughout the world who may feel
(23:06):
apathetic or feel like I don't like politics or I
don't want to get involved with whatever my government is doing.
What do you say to them to encourage their active participation?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
All right, before I speak to them, I noticed that
Genesys are tired of hope. My generation, the millenniums, the millennials,
we've been led by hope, not stuff. They'll just tell
you we are planning to do this, we will do
this for you. But and then also there's a period
(23:39):
of time that you are being told that we are
the leaders of tomorrow. But the time you realize you
are a granny, your time is first spent. And this
point in power will never leave power for anybody. So
it is upon our children, because Matian also Genesys, to
know that they shouldn't make the same mistakes that we made.
(24:01):
We woke up very late in the day when we
were in our forties to realize, oh my god, as
you have done better when I was stronger, when I
was younger. Yeah, so they need to check up their
place and do what they need to do for their
various countries. We've seen so many countries pushing for change
(24:22):
through the Genesys. That was Kenya. I remember in Kenya
I June last the other year twenty twenty four, the
Genesys stopped and the finance bill. It was ridiculous, it
was out of touch with the Kenyan reality. But the
Genesys managed to stop that and also the president had
(24:44):
to suck his own cabinot. Okay, then we have the
story of our Madadaskar, we have Tunisia, Tunisia, We have
all these stories of what Genesys are doing in their country.
So what they need to do is that they need
to org and I is better because when you are united,
you can do so much more. Most of these gencees
(25:06):
just come together for a certain period, like in our
case in Kenya. After defeating, after dropping, after ensuring that
the government has dropped the finance bill, nothing has happened.
We're having our elections next year. They're not even taking
their voters card. Yeah, So they need to they need
(25:26):
to organize themselves better and get into political parties because
these are I think there are some of the vehicles
that can help them speak in one language. Getting into
political parties will also ensure that they get the leadership
positions in these political parties. In Kenya right now, most
political parties are led by the old people who they
(25:51):
don't they don't speak our language, they don't understand our problems.
They don't understand our struggles. So we can organize better
by number one, getting into this political parties and also
deciding as young people, who are we putting in power,
Somebody that carries our variations with them, Somebody that understands
(26:11):
where we are coming from and what we want for
our various countries. But imagine, Africa is the richest continent
in the entire world in terms of human resource, in
terms of our minerals, oil and everything you can mention.
But why is it that the African youth is coming
(26:31):
to the West to build the West while our countries
are wallowing in poverty with all these immense wealth that
we are having. So it is upon us to stay
at home, fight from within, fight for our right full places,
and ensure that things work for us the way they
ought to. Don't even need to be taking loans from
(26:52):
IMF and World Bank and all these things. We can
be sufficient. Look at what Botswana is doing right now.
They paid all their low and now we're managing their countries.
Are fair with the internal, with the one that they
have internally, So we really don't need to look to
look fat to look east. We can make our home.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, Elizabeth, I just am so grateful for your time today,
uh sharing your governance expertise with Native Lampid. I certainly
hope this is the beginning of a great relationship. I
look forward to learning from you. I hope that we
can take and hear from your leadership, your wisdom, what
you've seen in your own home country of Kenyuar. It
(27:37):
is very late, so I recognize your sacrifice, and I
just hope that we can stay in touch and keep
growing the diaspora, because all black people to come together,
not just in Africa, but across the board.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe. I believe it's time
because most of the time the stories that go out
about Africa are stories of war, stories of diseases, sortes
of farmin and throat. We have so many beautiful things
that we also do in Africa that if, like those
Selsaniels are telling me, go back and tell and share
(28:11):
our story with the world. I believe Africa has a
good story and with collaboration, we can both learn from
each other and get best practices that work for everybody.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, yes, indeed, Well you have a beautiful night, and
thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Thank you Thank you so much. Thank you God, bless.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
God, bless you, well everyone.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I wanted to do exactly that because sometimes we have
to take ourselves outside of our circumstance and what is
facing us to understand how we get through, what our
journey is, what mistakes were made in other parts of
the world, what mistakes are happening, What trials, tribulations, trauma
(29:09):
are happening that we can learn from.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
How can we be good global neighbors.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And not just be so focused on our current set
of circumstances that we're not paying attention to what's happening
in the rest of the world.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You know, I thought it was important.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
To do this because I was frustrated by a comment
that was made by a celebrity many of us know well,
and at least it came out earlier this week. I
don't know when it was actually stated or at the
end of last week, but I want to play that
clip because I do think it's relevant to what we
just got done talking about.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
This is for real, Williams, as we look at what's.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Going on in the current political climate. I'm just saying
to I want to turn by y'all. I hate politists
life inspires them. It is it's a magic trick that
it's not rare. I don't believe that he decide. So
I think when you take a side, are only you
know if you are inverting the supporting division. Guess it's
not a popular point of view.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
But I just got to say that I think about it.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
The wells are drying up and then okay, now the
diversity is off the table, not equities off the table,
not inclusions off the table.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
So that makes me ask myself a picture on how
do we survive? Well, are there black people here that tonight?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yea?
Speaker 5 (30:22):
And in your part do you think for.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
What it is that you do and who you are?
Speaker 5 (30:25):
Do you think you're the best? Okay?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
So do you want the job because you're black, but
because you're the best.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Do you want someone to support your startup because you're black,
but because you're the best?
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Right?
Speaker 4 (30:37):
So I think now for me, it's about us having
the best ambition.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
That's the reason why you should apport should support these businesses.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Yes, they happen to be death and.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
Brown, but it should be based on the pieces.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
That were the best, not because we are a total
shade of a skin cup.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
That's a point of view that I have now and
then like that I'm resting on in the diversity, equity
and inclusion never comes back in styles cool. I'm going
to focus on being the best because I can think
on that, because that's what's going to get you a
position where you know, I don't want you to give
me anything.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
I want you to I want you to panic and
not letting opport because.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
I'm the best.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
So I appreciate that Parrella and I can have difference
of opinion, but what I don't believe we can have
is a different set of facts. He is allowed to
hate politics. He's allowed to believe that politics is a
magic trick that you have to pick a side, and
a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Of ways you do right.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We exist in a land of the the yays and
the nays. When members of Congress take votes, when state
legislators take votes, you.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Either yes or no. You could not vote.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Maybe people can vote present right in some of these votes,
but you do have to pick aside. And unfortunately for us, UH,
this is the most dangerous time in our nation's history,
at least that I can remember.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
When I talk to my parents.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
About whether or not they've seen something that's been bad,
my dad said, and I quote, hell, no.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Right, he hasn't seen anything this bad.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
And so what I have to wrestle with, or when
I would invite us to wrestle with, is what it's
going to take to get people to believe that not
picking a side is safer, right, that that believing that
hating politics is enough to allow politics and the policy
making process to hate you, which is where Pharell ended
(32:30):
up landing when he got into the diversity, equity and
inclusion conversation.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
There's a reason why Pharrell.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Had, you know, this monumental fashion show with Louis Vauton.
He is one of one in a million, right, He's
he's made He's made.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
History as a Louis Vuitton.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I believe is creative director with Louis Vuitton right now,
and Lolo, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but
I believe that's his role in I think he's the
first black man to occupy that seat, right, if not
the first, only the second.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
There's a reason for it, and it's not because Farrell
doesn't work hard. If y'all watch the Lego movie, you
know the brother works hard, right. But I think that
what we have to wrestle with truly is when we
pick aside in politics, are we picking our collective advancement.
I don't think that means you have to pick a party.
I do think that means you have to pick an agenda.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I do think that means you have to pick an
agenda and roll with the people who can knock out
most of your agenda. It may not be all, but
it should be most. It should be more than half.
It should be a passing grade. And when you talk
to Elizabeth who damn near lost her life in Tanzania
merely going to be an election of observer, and I
(33:49):
am correct that I thought it was Virgil Ablah, that's right,
who was at off White first. Thank you so much
for that, So he was the second. What I want
to acknowledge is that when we talk about people risking
their lives to vote, we think about it as a
distant memory. We don't think about it as our neighbors
right overseas who are engaging in these battles every single day.
(34:12):
That you cannot use the voice of your president to
do a TikTok dance and not be charged with treason,
that you can't warn your neighbors. Hey, I believe tear
gas is coming around this election. Protect yourselves by a mask,
treason punishable by hanging. No, this country is not there yet,
But what are we going to do to pick a
(34:34):
side to ensure that's not where we land. I'm not
saying that the Democratic Party has gotten it right every time,
far from it, far from it. But what I know
is that this Republican Party continues to get worse, and
we have to decide for ourselves whether it's within the
container of the donkey or the elephant or not. What
(34:55):
we have to decide is what we're worthy of in
terms of obtaining our freedom. When Elizabeth said today that
she believed that this woman who was just selected as
a dictator, Samia Shan, that she was testing the waters
initially she wanted to see how far she could go.
That is what they're doing. We're Project twenty twenty five
here in this country. Y'all right? When they go out
(35:19):
and say, hey, we're gonna pay the tsos, the TSA
workers ten thousand dollars bonuses for showing up for going
the extra mile during the shutdown, during the Democrat shutdown
is what they called it. But they don't feed and
fund the other government workers that did the same thing,
that went the extra mile.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
That picked up the extra shift. It's a divide and
conquer strategy.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Are we sophisticated enough to see that, Why are we
deciding of the have nots who's worthy of having? Why
can't we decide that all of the have nots are
worthy to receive because they're alive, because we want them
to be well, because we want people to have clean
drinking water, because we want people to be able to
afford to keep the electricity on, to live somewhere, to
(36:05):
have some place to stay. Right when we talk about
the number of people who are compromised, that is also
by design. If they can keep buying off people less
unless people are able to speak in their integrity. That
is not a strategy of Donald Trump or even if
Samia Asan or any other authoritarian leader.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
It is the strategy, as Elizabeth said, of a narcissist.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
And so we have to be mindful enough to say,
we might be uncomfortable with politics right now.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
It might be scary. You don't know what you're putting
at risk.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
It could be your livelihood, your safety, it could be
your families. I know how scary it is. But what
we've got to do is step up, stand up, use
our voices to ensure that it doesn't get worse than
it already is. People right now are having to reapply
for snap benefits, potentially reapply, not recertified, but actually go
(37:00):
through the whole tedious process of reapplying because they want
to decide who's worthy of eating in this country, y'all.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
That's where we're living.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
And I know in all of this to hear what
just happened in Tanzania on election day there, which was
October twenty ninth, we are light years away from that.
And I don't want us to pit us versus Tanzanians,
or versus Kenyans or anybody else in the world. I
want us to be mindful of what it looks like
to help them and also help ourselves, to make sure
(37:31):
that people get to live in a space where they
can freely opine, express themselves, run for office and have
a fair chance.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
You know what, it seems like. It seems like the
narciss has never played a sport.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
They don't know what it's like to just you had
a bad game, you pick yourself up, you try again. No, instead,
they've got to engage in rigging and threatening and inciting violence.
Steve Bannon, who was just on some stage saying that
he thinks that if they don't win the twenty six
or the twenty eight elections, some of them are going
(38:03):
to end up in jail. Sure, they blame that on
the Democratic Party, saying that they're going to be violent
and prosecute those who disagree with them. I'm sorry, Pam,
that's not us, that's them over there. We got to
be clear about that. We've got to be wide eyed
about that. We've already seen what happens when an insurrection happens,
and he's partned all those folks from January sixth, so
(38:24):
we can keep going down that dangerous road with Ice
rays where some of the ICE agents ICE agents aren't
even really Ice. They are former criminals, reoffending, raping and
kidnapping folks in our streets. Sure, it's not as bad
as in Tanzania as it's been in other cities throughout
the world, countries throughout the world. But what we should ensure,
(38:48):
we should make damn sure of, is that it doesn't
get there. That requires us to be informed, that requires
us to have difficult conversations that requires us to lift
up our voices the way we want somebody from overseas
to do for us. If we were jailed for treason
for merely telling someone to get an oxygen mask and
(39:10):
to do a TikTok dance where we were using our
freedom of expression as a form of creative protest. We
should all have that right regardless of where we live.
We should all engage in a political process even when
we hate it. Y'all think I don't like politics right now,
y'all think I don't hate this right now, I don't
even recognize this.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
But what I know I deserve.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
What I know my people deserve is power, and I'm
not going to rest until we have it.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
See y'all next time. Welcome Home.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media. For more podcast ask some iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Native lamdpod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Native Lampod, as we say,
welcome home. Today is a show that is very different
from me. I normally spend most of my time really
analyzing what's happening and what is the current state of
affairs in the United States of America with our government,
with everything that's happening here. But today is different because
(00:31):
I wanted to go overseas. There is quite the crisis
brewing in Tanzania, and it's something that caught my eye
and I want to start here where many of us
would least expect with this TikTok bance. The dance was
(01:03):
conducted by a TikTok and social media influencer by the
name of Jennifer Niffer Jovin. She was jailed in Tanzania
and charged with treason on November seventh, along with more
than ninety other gen Zers. And the woman that you
saw crying right after that dance was her mother. Her
(01:24):
mother who pled for the government to give her daughter
a break. Her mother said, my name is Mamanisha Isaac,
I beg for forgiveness. I also did not like what
she did, and I am asking for forgiveness on behalf
of the entire family. My daughter is the breadwinner for
the entire family. We all depend on her, and we
(01:45):
ask you to forgive her and forgive us. And what
is remarkable about this is you might be saying, well,
what does this TikTok dance have to do with any
of this?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Why would her mother beg for forgiveness?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well, see, the the election in this country was held
on October twenty ninth. The president, the current president is
Sama Hassan, and she won that election allegedly by ninety
five percent of the votes. Gen Ziers have been motivated,
have been on the ground, have been fighting back, had
(02:20):
been pushing back a country that is known mostly more
for its silence when you compare it to its counterpart
in Kenya. And so this time, folks who have studied
what's happening on the ground in Tanzania said you shouldn't
have mistaken their silence for peace, and so folks hit
the streets. What Jennifer is being charged with is treason.
(02:44):
She's being charged with treason because one. They said that
the music that the dance video was set to was
offensive to President Hassan, that the president took offense to
the content, and she was then arrested. Jennifer was then
arrested alone, longside twenty one others who participated in what
they called an anti government demonstration. Now, her lawyer has
(03:08):
said that she's charged with treason for allegedly encouraging people
to buy face masks to protect themselves from tear gas.
She encouraged people to buy face mass to protect themselves
from tear gas. If she's convicted of conspiracy to commit
(03:30):
treason in Tanzania, that is a charge that is punishable
by death by hanging. So this is all happening right.
A week before the election in Tanzania, the government banned
the use of X again. October twenty ninth was the
(03:50):
date of those elections, where the president was said to
have won by ninety five percent of the vote. There
is an opposition lee who has also been jailed in Tanzania,
and I want to just read you briefly what Chairman
Tundulisu said on X again, the platform that was banned
(04:11):
by this country a week before the election, but on
October twenty sixth, which also happens to be my birthday.
The chairman had this to say, my brothers and sisters,
and I hopefully we can pull it up for our
screen as well, my brothers and sisters. For several weeks now,
I have been placed under total isolation, a state of
(04:34):
forced loneliness. The fellow inmates who once shared my sale,
all of whom had been sentenced to death, have been removed.
I have been left completely alone. My cell is now
fitted with the surveillance cameras that record everything I do,
even when I relieve myself or change clothes.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I no longer have.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Any privacy whatsoever is a matter of security. It is
a deliberate act meant to humiliate my human dignity. I appeal.
I appeal for this matter to be raised loudly and forcefully,
because it is a blatant violation of human rights and
an offense under the United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for
(05:21):
the Treatment of Prisoners, the Mandela Rules, which clearly state
that the inherent dignity of every human being must be
respected even when imprisoned. Rule one prolonged or indefinite solitary
confinement that denies a prisoner communication with others amounts to
cruelty and torture Rules forty three and forty four. It
(05:43):
is also a violation of the Constitution of the United
Republic of Tanzania Articles twelve and thirteen, which guarantee the
dignity of every person and prohibit torture or degrading treatment.
I am prepared to endure any hardship for the sake
of my belief in justice and the freedom of our people.
But the humiliation of human dignity can never be acceptable,
(06:07):
not for me nor for anyone who bears the name
of a human being.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I know.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
We also have a clip of the United Nations Human
Rights spokesman who spoke out about what's happening in Tanzania,
and we will get to that. But first I would
like to bring to you all a governance expert who
has studied what's happened with the elections in Tanzania. Her
name is Elizabeth Adongo Yogo and she joins us. Now
(06:38):
it's some good pleasure here and we have a little
bit of a delay, but Elizabeth is with us.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I want you to talk to us about what you
saw in the Tanzanian elections. When you went to be
an observer, please tell us what you saw.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
So I watched Tanzania on the twenty eighth, the twenty seventh,
we were going, all the observers were going for the
brief from the ee Neck offices, which is a known
for every election observation mission. And so when you got there,
we found that there were not any brief materials, no documentation,
(07:18):
and even the chair of the IPECH that is the
Independence National and Electional Commission, was not there to talk
to us. And so that team that had come from
Kenya from other missions, because I was I was representing
the African Liberal Network. There's a team from the East
African Community and Armand's other conglomination. They saw what was
(07:43):
happening and they say they could not be there because
that was a direct violation of I mean, no election
happens like that. There must be some order for every election.
And so when they left, I decided to stay back
and just report for I had seen, because I thought
maybe there could be other issues that were beyond their
(08:05):
patron and that's why the briefing wasn't done. So I
sat there for about three four hours and I decided
to just go back to my hotel room and go
back the following day to start to work. So on
the twenty ninth, I woke up very early. Of course,
the elections were starting at seven am. By six thirty
(08:28):
year I was in my stations because I was assigned
to stations. So the first station I went through, there
was no one apart from the election agents, apart from
the police that is the normal police, the security apparatus
that was there, and then me as an observer. Thirty
(08:51):
minutes went by, nobody was coming to cast their ballot,
and it was unsettling because during an election time, what
is eager to I mean to just everybody is normally
eager to just exercise the democratic right. But that wasn't happening.
Thirty minutes later, about a few minutes to eight am.
(09:13):
That was about for five minutes later, I decided to
go to my next station just to see what was
going on. Maybe there was a problem with where I was.
So as I was leaving the station, I saw a
track load of army personnel and it was kind of
scary because every time you see the army, it means
the country is under attack. And I went back in
(09:37):
to compose myself and one of the army guys walked
in and I asked him if there was a problem,
and it was like, no, there's no problem. I was
just monitoring what's going on. And then I left to
my second station. And now at the second station, it
was clear that the station was under the army. Remember
(09:58):
the first station, I didn't see anyone coming to cast
their ballot. In the second station, I walked in and
the place was full of army. So that means you
cannot record anything you're seeing. You're just there to serve
and leave. So while there, I counted fifteen ladies only
who are in the queue, either coming out from voting
(10:20):
or somewhere on the queue, and at least there was
some semblance of life. There was something going on there.
So I stayed back and just see what was going
to happen, like just out the number of people and
maybe talk to them and ask why it is there,
Lord turn of dough. We had no why. And a
(10:40):
few minutes to one to midday, some youth were coming,
you know, just saying there are no elections here. I
cannot have elections, no reforms, no elections, And now everybody
had to run for their dear life, because you know
the army is already there and they armed. Then there
are these protests were there, and then there are people
(11:01):
who are the few women who are the que voting,
so that at that particular point of time, just want
to save your life because there was already a build
up was already building up even in the country. Even
getting into the country itself was a problem. They would
question us so much know what we were going to do,
and I forgot to measure that. Even getting the accreditation
(11:23):
was a big problem, like we wait. We had to
work for six months, which was very, very unusual. So anyway,
violence happened. And there is a lady, a kind of
lady who stays near where I was going, and I
told her, I am in this place and I may
pass by to see you before I go back home.
Because my brief was go to Tanzania, see what they're doing,
(11:47):
and come back home. Because even in we're going to Tanzania,
there were already issues of when to Tanzania, already told
that there were demonstrations on that day, so you were
ready for that. So I was just going to Jazania
and see what was happening. And then by three o'clock
take the flight back to Kenya. So I told my
(12:09):
friend that I'll pass me to see you on my
way to the airport. But now that wasn't to be.
So I decided to go back to the hotel and
just hung out and see how the situation will be.
But when I got to the hotel, that's when I
realized there was no power. There was no water, and
there was no electricity. Remember there is a lam Is,
(12:33):
a very hot city. Were doing about that a two
degrees cetebrate, so you can imagine no aces, no water,
like the basic human needs were not there absolutely, And
so in the evening that ill cares us that they
don't work foreigners in there, meaning we're on our own.
(12:54):
So I went to my friend's house. It was very risky,
but I had to move because I couldn't stay while
you already told you can't, you can't, you can't be there.
So I went to my friend's house and that we
stayed there. That night. We could not sleep because I
just gun shots all over. The guy just went shooting
a furtherly like the the brief was if you see
(13:17):
anything moving, shoot at it. Yeah. So that was Wednesday,
Thad the same thing. On Friday, something dramatic happened to us.
I was in the bathroom taking my shower that day
we had the water. What I came on that day,
the day the day that the President Samye Sluapin sworn in.
(13:40):
They gave us, they gave us. I was in the
shower and I had my phone and I was listening
to music, and so my mind was just there. And
shortly after the lady I'm living with comes to where
I was screaming that how they hurt you? Have they
hurt you? Are you okay, Lizay, You're okay? Nothing? What's
(14:00):
going on? And she tells me these people are shooting
at us in the house. So when we checked the house,
we found the they're known as cartridges, spent bullets. They
were shooting at us in the bathroom and they could
get into the house. That's how bad the situation was
inters near. Remember that time, there's no internet and there's
(14:23):
no power, so we cannot communicate with anybody, and people
at home are really worried about us, and we were
just there. You cannot seek any help. But by good luck,
I don't know what my daughter did, and somehow I
saw her phone call coming through and it was like
seeing God. Literally we was tacked. So I just tell her.
(14:47):
I just told her I'm in this location, like the
nearby what is it called the nearby sign that I
could get like a landomark, the nearby landmark. It was
near a church. And I tell her, if you talk
to anybody, tell them I am near this church. And
so that is how. Now my husband had to speak
(15:09):
to the foreign affairs foreign affairs in turns are near
and other agencies. And I got out of there on
a Sunday morning. So when I was lifted to my Robbie,
so as we were leaving the house through the airport,
there were two groups of people. There were, of course,
(15:31):
there were roadblocks monitored by two groups of people. One
was the army itself. Yeah, and whenever I passed them,
they will tell me. They will ask me who I was,
and I will tell them a man, observe, I'm going
back to my country and don't question me and tell
me that don't say what you've seen here, and I'll say, no,
I don't have any issues. I just want to go
(15:52):
back home, you know. Then again I will meet protesters
and they will tell me when when you get to
like Robbies safely, tell the world what is happening in Tanzania. Remember,
I could pass bodies, dead bodies of children and women
on the streets we were going to the airport. There
was a lot of damage done by the protesters, you know,
(16:15):
they running battles and on the marketplaces, the bus stops.
There was a lot of damage done. But what was
striking or the dead bodies and they were just lying
on the streets and they really didn't care that particular time.
They were just I think they just the immediate or
(16:35):
their priority was just to ensure that the president was enthroned.
That's all they cared able. They didn't care about anybody.
And yeah, it was not a very good site. Closed
one horrific and terrible week.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Elizabeth, what what was the reason what pulled you to
Tanzania to be an election observer? Why would you risk
your life, really truly risk your life to go and
ensure that you could see what was happening there? That
would that would make you leave and say to the protesters,
(17:34):
I will go back and tell the world what I
saw in Tanzania.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
What drove you to do that?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
One of my reasons forget Tanzania was that everybody was
shying away from going there. Given before the elections. We know,
you know, the arrests of the of the opposition leaders,
the disappearances of the people, the civil society are people
and so the haarbituary arrest of anybody who was against
(18:02):
the government. So Tanzania is my neighbor, and not ever
affects Tazania affects me as a person as I was
just curious to go and see is it true that
this is happening in Tanzania, Because for a very long time,
Tanzania has been the cool kid of the of the
region in Africa. The country that has been peaceful has
(18:25):
been Tanzania. But I realized it has been a fast
It's not true. They're just peaceful because they're not able
to express themselves. But this time they decided enough was enough.
So I was just going to see is it true?
What we are? What we are, what we are reading
all the media all Tanzania. That is all drove me
to go there and seeing it firsthand. It opened my
(18:50):
eyes to the problem that not only Tanzania's face, but
the old region is facing. You know, I'm having this
fa sad that all is well. I was saying that
people are peacefully at people are not peaceful, and they're
not happy with their leadership.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I'm curious too, and I'm going to be honest with
you in saying, you know, a lot of what is
happening in America right now is causing me personally to
look into different governments that have been under authoritarian regimes
and reading about Tanzania's current president, the way in which
(19:29):
the election was one, the ways in which they're trying
to change the rules around elections here in America, and
the things that we're saying but really have not felt.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
The brunt of yet.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Given your vast experience in this space, can you tell
me and to our audience, what are the signs right
that a dictator is coming? What are the ways in
which people have to lean into their power to prevent
something like this which happens with these slow drips? Are
the ways that we prepare ourselves and prevent dictatorship from
(20:05):
coming here?
Speaker 3 (20:08):
First of all, I believe that dictators behave like you
know when you're in a relationship with the narcissist. Because
even when this lady came, the whole region was very,
very happy, one of the things that she did was
to do away with the bad law that had been
passed by her predecessor as she embraced the opposition. But
(20:29):
for me, I think in the long run, she was
just trying to test the waters to see how far
she could go, and by doing so, she brought everybody
on her side, and everybody who could speak was compromised.
And then when she strived that by bringing bad rules,
you know, by ensuring that they do you know, finally
(20:52):
that the since and party that is the ruling party
in Tazania has domicide the elections. For me, like it's
part of the ruling party and nobody can speak against
it because she has given everybody she's done favors for
everybody around her, so you cannot speak. Yeah. And then
(21:13):
now when she was coming for the for the for
the opposition leaders, no one could stop her because everybody
hold her favors. Remember, even there are some Kenyan activists
who are sexually assaulted in Tanzania, but my country didn't
do anything because well, the East African communication and agans
(21:39):
and so I believe we need to strengthen our institutions
such that it doesn't matter who comes the rules that
are there, the structures that are there are the way
they are supposed to be. Nobody messes up with anything
because every time you you you let your guard down,
(22:02):
and notitarian gets a foothold in it, and by the
time you know the system has had people will go
singing her tunes and there's nothing that can be done.
Look at the army, for instance, in Tanzania. Who is
running the army at the moment. Yeah, so when she
tells the army that I need you in the streets,
(22:23):
nobody will question that because they are the aligias. Those
are people that she's been able to buy and to
and to give favors through. Yeah, so my tear. Would
we just have strong independent institutions, strong independent institutions.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
When you think about the role that gen Z played
in the protests in Tanzania, we're starting to see young
people all over the world stand up use their voices
when they see something that's not right there, like this
is not right and I'm speaking up. What do you
say to gen Zers throughout the world who may feel
(23:06):
apathetic or feel like I don't like politics or I
don't want to get involved with whatever my government is doing.
What do you say to them to encourage their active participation?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
All right, before I speak to them, I noticed that
Genesys are tired of hope. My generation, the millenniums, the millennials,
we've been led by hope, not stuff. They'll just tell
you we are planning to do this, we will do
this for you. But and then also there's a period
(23:39):
of time that you are being told that we are
the leaders of tomorrow. But the time you realize you
are a granny, your time is first spent. And this
point in power will never leave power for anybody. So
it is upon our children, because Matian also Genesys, to
know that they shouldn't make the same mistakes that we made.
(24:01):
We woke up very late in the day when we
were in our forties to realize, oh my god, as
you have done better when I was stronger, when I
was younger. Yeah, so they need to check up their
place and do what they need to do for their
various countries. We've seen so many countries pushing for change
(24:22):
through the Genesys. That was Kenya. I remember in Kenya
I June last the other year twenty twenty four, the
Genesys stopped and the finance bill. It was ridiculous, it
was out of touch with the Kenyan reality. But the
Genesys managed to stop that and also the president had
(24:44):
to suck his own cabinot. Okay, then we have the
story of our Madadaskar, we have Tunisia, Tunisia, We have
all these stories of what Genesys are doing in their country.
So what they need to do is that they need
to org and I is better because when you are united,
you can do so much more. Most of these gencees
(25:06):
just come together for a certain period, like in our
case in Kenya. After defeating, after dropping, after ensuring that
the government has dropped the finance bill, nothing has happened.
We're having our elections next year. They're not even taking
their voters card. Yeah, So they need to they need
(25:26):
to organize themselves better and get into political parties because
these are I think there are some of the vehicles
that can help them speak in one language. Getting into
political parties will also ensure that they get the leadership
positions in these political parties. In Kenya right now, most
political parties are led by the old people who they
(25:51):
don't they don't speak our language, they don't understand our problems.
They don't understand our struggles. So we can organize better
by number one, getting into this political parties and also
deciding as young people, who are we putting in power,
Somebody that carries our variations with them, Somebody that understands
(26:11):
where we are coming from and what we want for
our various countries. But imagine, Africa is the richest continent
in the entire world in terms of human resource, in
terms of our minerals, oil and everything you can mention.
But why is it that the African youth is coming
(26:31):
to the West to build the West while our countries
are wallowing in poverty with all these immense wealth that
we are having. So it is upon us to stay
at home, fight from within, fight for our right full places,
and ensure that things work for us the way they
ought to. Don't even need to be taking loans from
(26:52):
IMF and World Bank and all these things. We can
be sufficient. Look at what Botswana is doing right now.
They paid all their low and now we're managing their countries.
Are fair with the internal, with the one that they
have internally, So we really don't need to look to
look fat to look east. We can make our home.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, Elizabeth, I just am so grateful for your time today,
uh sharing your governance expertise with Native Lampid. I certainly
hope this is the beginning of a great relationship. I
look forward to learning from you. I hope that we
can take and hear from your leadership, your wisdom, what
you've seen in your own home country of Kenyuar. It
(27:37):
is very late, so I recognize your sacrifice, and I
just hope that we can stay in touch and keep
growing the diaspora, because all black people to come together,
not just in Africa, but across the board.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe. I believe it's time
because most of the time the stories that go out
about Africa are stories of war, stories of diseases, sortes
of farmin and throat. We have so many beautiful things
that we also do in Africa that if, like those
Selsaniels are telling me, go back and tell and share
(28:11):
our story with the world. I believe Africa has a
good story and with collaboration, we can both learn from
each other and get best practices that work for everybody.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, yes, indeed, Well you have a beautiful night, and
thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Thank you Thank you so much. Thank you God, bless.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
God, bless you, well everyone.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I wanted to do exactly that because sometimes we have
to take ourselves outside of our circumstance and what is
facing us to understand how we get through, what our
journey is, what mistakes were made in other parts of
the world, what mistakes are happening, What trials, tribulations, trauma
(29:09):
are happening that we can learn from.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
How can we be good global neighbors.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And not just be so focused on our current set
of circumstances that we're not paying attention to what's happening
in the rest of the world.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You know, I thought it was important.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
To do this because I was frustrated by a comment
that was made by a celebrity many of us know well,
and at least it came out earlier this week. I
don't know when it was actually stated or at the
end of last week, but I want to play that
clip because I do think it's relevant to what we
just got done talking about.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
This is for real, Williams, as we look at what's.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Going on in the current political climate. I'm just saying
to I want to turn by y'all. I hate politists
life inspires them. It is it's a magic trick that
it's not rare. I don't believe that he decide. So
I think when you take a side, are only you
know if you are inverting the supporting division. Guess it's
not a popular point of view.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
But I just got to say that I think about it.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
The wells are drying up and then okay, now the
diversity is off the table, not equities off the table,
not inclusions off the table.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
So that makes me ask myself a picture on how
do we survive? Well, are there black people here that tonight?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yea?
Speaker 5 (30:22):
And in your part do you think for.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
What it is that you do and who you are?
Speaker 5 (30:25):
Do you think you're the best? Okay?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
So do you want the job because you're black, but
because you're the best.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Do you want someone to support your startup because you're black,
but because you're the best?
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Right?
Speaker 4 (30:37):
So I think now for me, it's about us having
the best ambition.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
That's the reason why you should apport should support these businesses.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Yes, they happen to be death and.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
Brown, but it should be based on the pieces.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
That were the best, not because we are a total
shade of a skin cup.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
That's a point of view that I have now and
then like that I'm resting on in the diversity, equity
and inclusion never comes back in styles cool. I'm going
to focus on being the best because I can think
on that, because that's what's going to get you a
position where you know, I don't want you to give
me anything.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
I want you to I want you to panic and
not letting opport because.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
I'm the best.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
So I appreciate that Parrella and I can have difference
of opinion, but what I don't believe we can have
is a different set of facts. He is allowed to
hate politics. He's allowed to believe that politics is a
magic trick that you have to pick a side, and
a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Of ways you do right.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We exist in a land of the the yays and
the nays. When members of Congress take votes, when state
legislators take votes, you.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Either yes or no. You could not vote.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Maybe people can vote present right in some of these votes,
but you do have to pick aside. And unfortunately for us, UH,
this is the most dangerous time in our nation's history,
at least that I can remember.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
When I talk to my parents.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
About whether or not they've seen something that's been bad,
my dad said, and I quote, hell, no.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Right, he hasn't seen anything this bad.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
And so what I have to wrestle with, or when
I would invite us to wrestle with, is what it's
going to take to get people to believe that not
picking a side is safer, right, that that believing that
hating politics is enough to allow politics and the policy
making process to hate you, which is where Pharell ended
(32:30):
up landing when he got into the diversity, equity and
inclusion conversation.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
There's a reason why Pharrell.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Had, you know, this monumental fashion show with Louis Vauton.
He is one of one in a million, right, He's
he's made He's made.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
History as a Louis Vuitton.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I believe is creative director with Louis Vuitton right now,
and Lolo, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but
I believe that's his role in I think he's the
first black man to occupy that seat, right, if not
the first, only the second.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
There's a reason for it, and it's not because Farrell
doesn't work hard. If y'all watch the Lego movie, you
know the brother works hard, right. But I think that
what we have to wrestle with truly is when we
pick aside in politics, are we picking our collective advancement.
I don't think that means you have to pick a party.
I do think that means you have to pick an agenda.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I do think that means you have to pick an
agenda and roll with the people who can knock out
most of your agenda. It may not be all, but
it should be most. It should be more than half.
It should be a passing grade. And when you talk
to Elizabeth who damn near lost her life in Tanzania
merely going to be an election of observer, and I
(33:49):
am correct that I thought it was Virgil Ablah, that's right,
who was at off White first. Thank you so much
for that, So he was the second. What I want
to acknowledge is that when we talk about people risking
their lives to vote, we think about it as a
distant memory. We don't think about it as our neighbors
right overseas who are engaging in these battles every single day.
(34:12):
That you cannot use the voice of your president to
do a TikTok dance and not be charged with treason,
that you can't warn your neighbors. Hey, I believe tear
gas is coming around this election. Protect yourselves by a mask,
treason punishable by hanging. No, this country is not there yet,
But what are we going to do to pick a
(34:34):
side to ensure that's not where we land. I'm not
saying that the Democratic Party has gotten it right every time,
far from it, far from it. But what I know
is that this Republican Party continues to get worse, and
we have to decide for ourselves whether it's within the
container of the donkey or the elephant or not. What
(34:55):
we have to decide is what we're worthy of in
terms of obtaining our freedom. When Elizabeth said today that
she believed that this woman who was just selected as
a dictator, Samia Shan, that she was testing the waters
initially she wanted to see how far she could go.
That is what they're doing. We're Project twenty twenty five
here in this country. Y'all right? When they go out
(35:19):
and say, hey, we're gonna pay the tsos, the TSA
workers ten thousand dollars bonuses for showing up for going
the extra mile during the shutdown, during the Democrat shutdown
is what they called it. But they don't feed and
fund the other government workers that did the same thing,
that went the extra mile.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
That picked up the extra shift. It's a divide and
conquer strategy.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Are we sophisticated enough to see that, Why are we
deciding of the have nots who's worthy of having? Why
can't we decide that all of the have nots are
worthy to receive because they're alive, because we want them
to be well, because we want people to have clean
drinking water, because we want people to be able to
afford to keep the electricity on, to live somewhere, to
(36:05):
have some place to stay. Right when we talk about
the number of people who are compromised, that is also
by design. If they can keep buying off people less
unless people are able to speak in their integrity. That
is not a strategy of Donald Trump or even if
Samia Asan or any other authoritarian leader.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
It is the strategy, as Elizabeth said, of a narcissist.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
And so we have to be mindful enough to say,
we might be uncomfortable with politics right now.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
It might be scary. You don't know what you're putting
at risk.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
It could be your livelihood, your safety, it could be
your families. I know how scary it is. But what
we've got to do is step up, stand up, use
our voices to ensure that it doesn't get worse than
it already is. People right now are having to reapply
for snap benefits, potentially reapply, not recertified, but actually go
(37:00):
through the whole tedious process of reapplying because they want
to decide who's worthy of eating in this country, y'all.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
That's where we're living.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
And I know in all of this to hear what
just happened in Tanzania on election day there, which was
October twenty ninth, we are light years away from that.
And I don't want us to pit us versus Tanzanians,
or versus Kenyans or anybody else in the world. I
want us to be mindful of what it looks like
to help them and also help ourselves, to make sure
(37:31):
that people get to live in a space where they
can freely opine, express themselves, run for office and have
a fair chance.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
You know what, it seems like. It seems like the
narciss has never played a sport.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
They don't know what it's like to just you had
a bad game, you pick yourself up, you try again. No, instead,
they've got to engage in rigging and threatening and inciting violence.
Steve Bannon, who was just on some stage saying that
he thinks that if they don't win the twenty six
or the twenty eight elections, some of them are going
(38:03):
to end up in jail. Sure, they blame that on
the Democratic Party, saying that they're going to be violent
and prosecute those who disagree with them. I'm sorry, Pam,
that's not us, that's them over there. We got to
be clear about that. We've got to be wide eyed
about that. We've already seen what happens when an insurrection happens,
and he's partned all those folks from January sixth, so
(38:24):
we can keep going down that dangerous road with Ice
rays where some of the ICE agents ICE agents aren't
even really Ice. They are former criminals, reoffending, raping and
kidnapping folks in our streets. Sure, it's not as bad
as in Tanzania as it's been in other cities throughout
the world, countries throughout the world. But what we should ensure,
(38:48):
we should make damn sure of, is that it doesn't
get there. That requires us to be informed, that requires
us to have difficult conversations that requires us to lift
up our voices the way we want somebody from overseas
to do for us. If we were jailed for treason
for merely telling someone to get an oxygen mask and
(39:10):
to do a TikTok dance where we were using our
freedom of expression as a form of creative protest. We
should all have that right regardless of where we live.
We should all engage in a political process even when
we hate it. Y'all think I don't like politics right now,
y'all think I don't hate this right now, I don't
even recognize this.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
But what I know I deserve.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
What I know my people deserve is power, and I'm
not going to rest until we have it.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
See y'all next time. Welcome Home.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media. For more podcast ask some iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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