October 17, 2025 • 20 mins
Our MiniPod this week is inspired by one of your questions. Should we attend the No Kings protest? How do we maximize our political power through other methods besides voting?
We’ll hear some personal testimony from Andrew about what it means to folks like Letitia James and Lisa Cook, and all the folks being unjustly targeted by the Trump administration, about what it means to see folks protesting the same system that’s grinding them down.
If you’d like to submit a question, check out our tutorial video: www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/
Welcome home y’all!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Recent Choice Media Native Land.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
So grateful for y'all, especially happy to see Tiffany cross
Land in a good place. They used to follow her
on MSNBC as well as Joy Reid. I no longer
watch MSNBC since they ditched so many journalists of color
Katie Fang, Mini Assan. But that's not my question. My
question concerns the No Kings protests past and present. I
(00:32):
am part of the ninety two percent. My mother was
an activist in this civil rights era, so resistance is
in my DNA, and I wonder as far as the
No Kings protests, should we be involved, should we be
doing more as a community? Should we be doing more?
(00:57):
And what that more might look like? And I'm wondering
what your thoughts are on this.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Thanks welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Welcome, welcome, welcome home, y'all. This is Native Lampid. It
is a mini pod for us, and today we are
going to talk a little bit about no Kings and
protests or not to protest? What do you feel called
to do? Bakari has to go to court. He got
another day job, so We're gonna let him go ahead
and jump in first.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yes, thank you guys, and shout out to everybody who
shows up for jury duty. Jesus make sure y'all show
up juriy duty. When y'all get the notices, get that
thirty dollars a day until your boss. You gotta go
do God's work in the jury. So look, I don't
really know what the no Kings protest is all about.
And I have a problem with these protest marches because
I figured, if you don't have a goal, you just
(01:48):
getting your steps in. That's what I call these marches,
just out there getting your steps in. What do we
do afterwards? I need to call to action for afterwards.
I need people to be organized. I remember my dad
was somebody who actually fixed cheese sandwiches. That was his
job at Snick. He fixed cheese sandwiches for the march
on Washington. He wasn't in charge of the signs. He
was over there with John Lewis before he gave his speech,
(02:11):
which of course we know changed overnight. But then he
went out during the day and he made everybody cheese sandwiches,
cheese and mayonnaise sandwiches on white bread. That's what the
volunteers ate and the people who showed up to the march.
But when they left the march on Washington, they had
a goal of what they were going to do when
they left DC. And so look, if marches are your ministry,
(02:34):
and if the No Kings March moves your spirit, then
please participate. But make sure you're not just getting your
steps in. That is just to waste the time, and
we don't really have time to waste.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
I love that, Bakari. Well, I think you're not alone
in that a lot of people don't really know what
the No King's protest is, even though many do so.
Right now, they're over twenty five hundred events planned, and
not just across every state here in the United States,
but worldwide. There are protests planned in Europe and Canada,
(03:08):
and people expect the number to grow even beyond twenty
five hundred events in these different places. Protest anchor events
will take place in Atlanta, Boston, Kansas City, New Orleans
and New Orleans as they say, San Francisco, Chicago, and
of course the nation's capital of DC. And I think
the reason why we're talking about this because on this
(03:31):
week's episode, our main episode of Native Lampod. We had
a wonderful viewer asked the questions should we be participating
in no Kings? And Andrew gave his thoughts and calls
to action, So please go be sure to check out
the main episode. And look, I think you know there
is some level of black people saying yeah, when it mattered,
we did what we had to do. We screened to
(03:52):
the mountaintops, don't vote for this man. We organized, we
did go GOTV efforts, get out the vote efforts for people.
And there are some people who are a little protested out,
which I completely understand that, and I'm not here to
criticize anybody's way of functioning h and surviving the times.
(04:12):
So I applaud everybody around who does choose to participate
in the Noah King's March, wherever you may be. Michael
Harriet and I had a good conversation about it, and
he was saying, it's kind of like people in the
NBA when they're ride and by and they look at
dudes playing pickup basketball and they're like, oh, okay, that's cool,
(04:34):
Like dude made a good jump shot. And that's how
black people look at protesting.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Because we have been.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
We are pros at it. We have been protesting and
doing organizing work for so long. So I can't tell
somebody rather they should or should not participate. But I
am happy to see some pushback on this administration. I
just don't know what it stops, but I do know
we have to do something. Angela, you going Danny's in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
No, I don't feel called to protest or march, but Andrew,
I want to come to you on this too, because
I do think it's important for people to understand there
are a variety of tactics that we can and should
engage in people. I think people should go where they
feel called. What do you think rather?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I mean I tend to agree. I mean by all means,
if you're feeling the itch to get out there, but
you're trying to uphold this banner of the ninety two
and I did my part, and so am I being
a sucker if I get involved in something else. No,
I mean you live in the society. Society, you breathe
in it, you exist in it. We're not immune to
(05:38):
its impacts. In fact, we're at the epicenter of its impacts.
So for folks to take a unilateral. Look, hey, I
did my voting and I'm out. When has voting ever
been enough in this process? It's never ever been enough.
We've voted, we've voted for a long time, we've voted
since we've had the opportunity to do so. And yet
it's called for lawsuits, it's called for protests, it's called
(06:02):
for sit ins and sit outs, teach ins and teach outs.
It's called for us as a community, as society, having
to show up whatever the opportunity, for our voice to
be heard, for us to get a message across. We
got that message across. So I really, you know, I
don't I don't believe that there is some sacred space
(06:23):
where we get to retreat to and say I've done
my part, I'm tired, my feet of swollen, you go
do yours. If if the impact of the decisions on
the other side had that kind of a rollout, that'd
be one thing. Oh, the Blacks went out and they voted,
and so they don't get they won't get the tranche
of this to the third tranch around. That's not how
it works. We get the first of the negative tranch
(06:45):
and we're impacted all the way through the thing, and
so I'm not going to get up here and preach
and admonish people to go and do a thing. I'm
I'm not doing that. But I don't think that any
of us should decide that it is safe enough territory
that we went and voted, and therefore we did our thing,
(07:05):
and now we don't have another thing to do. I
don't think that makes sense, and that's not rooted in
any any part of our history. That's never been true.
Don't let other people confuse us about its truthfulness. And
at the same time, don't let anybody embarrass you or
or whip you into thinking that you've got to go
out and do a thing that you don't feel called
(07:26):
to do. But if it is hitting you this way,
and you recognize that the fight in human struggle towards
what's right is one that is continual, then you got
to do what you know you need to do. And
if no Kings is how it's formation, you know, coming
into formation for you, then no Kings it is. As
(07:47):
far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
You know, I I do feel really strongly about people
doing what they feel called to do. Every time we
had a new volunteer join us on state of the people,
and they were like, well, what what what do you
all need? What do you want me to do? And
I would always say, what do you feel called to do?
(08:09):
And it's I think that's important one because normally, where
you feel called or pulled or led, it is in
alignment with your gifts, it is in alignment with your experience,
and it's in alignment with where you feel most comfortable,
which means you'll be able to present the best version
of yourself on the thing. I grew up with a
perpetual protester, a proud agitator. We got more, you know,
(08:29):
signs in the garage for causes.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Then you know, my mom.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Certainly would like for there to be, but my dad
keeps him in case he got to run that thing back.
I guess, I don't know. And he I used to
joke all the time and say, he has a bullhorn
in the car, you know, in the trunk, and sometimes
a battery might be there, but the bullhorn is present.
And so I used to frown upon that is a
(08:54):
tactic because I felt like they expected us to do that.
And I tend to agree with what Bakari was saying about.
You know what happens when the march is over, like
what is the next step? And I do think we
often get, you know, so focused on raising the money
and building the budget around that action, but there is
(09:17):
less of a strategy around what happens after that action.
Now I'm not poopo on pop a rye, but I
am saying that too often we have we have spent
so much energy just trying trying to raise the consciousness
and the awareness around whatever the activity is that we
often lack. How we build in an infrastructure and a strategy,
(09:39):
end goals and objectives that support our liberation. And so
what I'm choosing to do in this moment is not
to lean into reactive activity, to not lean into you know,
he's doing these eighty five things sus this week, and
here's my reaction to those things. I'm really trying to
deepen into what are re sponse looks like, what a
(10:01):
response feels like, and can it be something that includes
a solution for our people? And I just feel like
sometimes those things don't always include that. Now, I will
say my ignorance here.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
No, I don't want to interrupt, I just wanted to
respond to upon it.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
My ignorance here is that I have not studied no kings,
so they may have that and I'm just not aware
of that. But I know they've done some really big activations,
and I will say I've been encouraged by the numbers
of people who are showing up, but I would be
remiss if I didn't say that there are a lot
of folks who don't look like us who are participating.
It doesn't mean that there are no black led orgs
(10:41):
or no black leaders involved, but we are overwhelmingly not present.
And I think if I were those organizers, I would
want to ask people, why, you know, what does solidarity
look like in this moment for the whole of us,
so that people feel like they should show up.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I didn't get to hear all of Baccari's message around
the phases and strategy here, but I will just say
this because I think I think we sometimes get a
little bit top heavy and sort of what's the zero
to one hundred approach on this thing? When I think
some things just serve that purpose. And I'll just say,
(11:33):
as it relates to Marsh's and just physical forms of resistance,
I probably have as a person who likes to think
of myself on the thinking, you know, what's the full
throttle piece of this, like, once we've done with this,
what is then to that? And then once we're done
with that, what's the strategy than this? And where I
have been most encouraged, where when I can't get the
(11:56):
satisfaction I want, on what the policy agenda is going
to look like in polate formation, where I have found
strength and in a reservoir of hope and a reservoir
of okay, we can do this thing. I don't know
why this feels so crazy, but it's when I looked
up and looked out and see that there were people
(12:18):
who had my back. I didn't even think they did,
just by their physical presence, the fact that they thought
enough to show up to stay in there, literally in
the gap. They didn't have to write a letter to
the paper, they didn't have to make a speech, but
their physical bodies gave me what I needed to just
(12:42):
get through that next thing. So I don't think we
should under underprize, underestimate, under calculate, under index what it
means to just be that force in the gap. And no,
I don't have the policy agenda. No I don't have
the total strategy I cannot satiate your need for a
(13:05):
policy paper, but I got my body, and right now
my body is standing right here in this moment in
resistance to what's going on. So I just I say
all that to say, do not for those of you
who physically take your bodies, who physically take yourselves down
to a No King's protest or to a movement for
(13:27):
black lives, or whatever the cause may be. I don't
want you to ever think that you're selling yourself or
the movement short because you didn't arrive there with a
complete plan in mind. Maybe what maybe was needed of
you in this moment is your physical self, so that
the person who is writing the policy paper or the
(13:47):
person in the in the will of the Senate trying
to move that policy thing to a vote and to action,
knows that they have people names that they can't call them,
faces they can't recognize outside this building, or holding it
down for them. When it feels like you can do
it all by yourself, and it finally hits on you
that you can't do this by yourself, that you can't
(14:09):
stand here alone and get what you want from and
that you need those bodies outside who are holding you
down to be right where they are. That's what your
contribution is in the moment. And I think what I
was envisioning that I think made me emotional as I
was thinking back to my trial, and I thought about
the speech of Letitia James at the top of our
(14:30):
show this week, and I was thinking about all these
people who will finding themselves in the legal cross hairs
of the system. While while many of us are opining
that ohe a judge and a jury and a whatever,
we'll see right through this and that there'll be vindication
on the other side, Well before you ever get to vindication,
(14:50):
there's a lot of sleepless nights and worry. And so
where my prayers go to for Letitia James and for
so many others is for their mental and spiritual health
(15:11):
and well being. What they're going through, something that they
don't deserve, and that many of us are believing that
on the other side of this will be justice. My
prayers go to their mental and spiritual health right now,
and that they'll have the fortitude to push through it
(15:34):
when everybody else is considered this a pretty drawn out conclusion,
it'll be okay, a judge, jury, and people of decent
and common sense will see the ridiculousness of this all
and they'll be fine. On the other side, well, every
night and every day, and every night and every day,
they still have to question will I have enough to
make mortgage? Will I be able to pull down enough
(15:57):
to ensure to my kids' colle you know, fund and
so on and so forth. I don't want to go
down the list of it, but just know there are
humans on the other sides of these titles. There are
humans on the other side of these charges. There's doubt,
there's fear, there's confusion, there's all other sorts of things.
When the leader of the free world is the on
the is on the up, you know, the opposite side
(16:18):
of you in this fight.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
You know, ag I just want to thank you. You
know I had intended in our main episode. I just
wish we had more time because I really wanted to
hear from you about you know, every time you see
another one of these cases drop if it's triggering for you,
and so I even appreciate like the connection drawn to
(16:44):
like the no King's protests, and you've seen it as
a sign of solidarity with folks who are on the
other side of a vast abuse of power by this administration,
including the targeting and the selective prosecution of his political enemies.
So I I'm really grateful for you sharing that, and
I hope we can get this to Tish so that
(17:06):
she can see that she's certainly not forgotten, and in fact,
you see, the opposition of the people is something that
is deeply supportive of folks like you, and folks like
Tish and Marilyn and Lisa Cook and Fannie Willis who
have all been on the other side of this man
who wishes you were king, and people who are over like, folding, over,
(17:30):
bending over, taking a knee bow and whatever it is
to give him exactly what he wants. But we're not
always as clear about the people who are on the
other side of that and who have survived it, and
the long term impacts of having to find the strength
and the wherewithal to survive it. So I just wanted
to say thank you.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Oh I wish I could have given it without so
many tears. I don't even know. I think I feel
pheel bottled up probably on this, but you're right, every
time you see it, it is a revisiting of it.
For me, it's sort of like, you know, I hate
listening to the folks. Oh well, comment and decent people
will know that this is just such and such and such,
And I'm thinking you all are miscalculating the impact of
(18:11):
this wildly for people who are enduring it.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Your family's the cost, like the actual like we're talking
about the emotional cost. We talked about that too, and
the financial cost. Right Tis, James is in a slightly
different position because there's a legal defense fund that's being
raised for there are folks like Andrew who did not
have that at least not you know, to the full extent.
So I just think it is so important for us
(18:36):
to consistently revisit that and good brother, where you're feeling
bottled up, I hope that you see this as a
safe space to not only share, but also to offer
folks like tishan others a blueprint for how to navigate
it and do so successfully. Tif, I don't know if
you have anything none.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
No, I don't really have a lot to contribute except
to say thank you Andrew for your humanity and what
you shared, because even people whose case I know, we're
going to try to get this statist James and others,
but there are so many people whose cases do not
elevate to national news, who could be facing federal or
local charges because they're ensnared in a very punishing and
(19:15):
racist criminal justice system that does not prioritize our humanity
at all. So just thank you for sharing that. I
also want to say I have not yet watched, but
I want to encourage our viewers. I'm planning on watching
right now the conversation with Janney Nelson, who just argued
before the Supreme Court this week, And I just feel
(19:38):
touch that there's a black woman who made the argument
on behalf of voting rights and the first person she
left the Supreme Court and the first person that she
chose to sit down with was Angela and so I
just think that is a testament to who Angela Ria
is and what this Native Land platform means. So I
hope our audience will help elevate this very important interview
(20:01):
and show why Native Land Pod is such an important platform.
So if you like anything you heard in this conversation,
please share it, and if you do tune into the
Jennae Nelson interview, please share that. Not only is it informative,
but it certainly helps us be able to secure more
timely interviews like that where we're so often ignored and
discarded by white run newsrooms and legacy media that is
(20:23):
increasingly a dying force as they continue to fill us
every day. So thank you, guys.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well, welcome home, y'all. Native Lamb Pod is a production
of iHeartRadio and partnership with Rezent Choice Media. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(20:51):
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Recent Choice Media Native Land.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
So grateful for y'all, especially happy to see Tiffany cross
Land in a good place. They used to follow her
on MSNBC as well as Joy Reid. I no longer
watch MSNBC since they ditched so many journalists of color
Katie Fang, Mini Assan. But that's not my question. My
question concerns the No Kings protests past and present. I
(00:32):
am part of the ninety two percent. My mother was
an activist in this civil rights era, so resistance is
in my DNA, and I wonder as far as the
No Kings protests, should we be involved, should we be
doing more as a community? Should we be doing more?
(00:57):
And what that more might look like? And I'm wondering
what your thoughts are on this.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Thanks welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Welcome, welcome, welcome home, y'all. This is Native Lampid. It
is a mini pod for us, and today we are
going to talk a little bit about no Kings and
protests or not to protest? What do you feel called
to do? Bakari has to go to court. He got
another day job, so We're gonna let him go ahead
and jump in first.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yes, thank you guys, and shout out to everybody who
shows up for jury duty. Jesus make sure y'all show
up juriy duty. When y'all get the notices, get that
thirty dollars a day until your boss. You gotta go
do God's work in the jury. So look, I don't
really know what the no Kings protest is all about.
And I have a problem with these protest marches because
I figured, if you don't have a goal, you just
(01:48):
getting your steps in. That's what I call these marches,
just out there getting your steps in. What do we
do afterwards? I need to call to action for afterwards.
I need people to be organized. I remember my dad
was somebody who actually fixed cheese sandwiches. That was his
job at Snick. He fixed cheese sandwiches for the march
on Washington. He wasn't in charge of the signs. He
was over there with John Lewis before he gave his speech,
(02:11):
which of course we know changed overnight. But then he
went out during the day and he made everybody cheese sandwiches,
cheese and mayonnaise sandwiches on white bread. That's what the
volunteers ate and the people who showed up to the march.
But when they left the march on Washington, they had
a goal of what they were going to do when
they left DC. And so look, if marches are your ministry,
(02:34):
and if the No Kings March moves your spirit, then
please participate. But make sure you're not just getting your
steps in. That is just to waste the time, and
we don't really have time to waste.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
I love that, Bakari. Well, I think you're not alone
in that a lot of people don't really know what
the No King's protest is, even though many do so.
Right now, they're over twenty five hundred events planned, and
not just across every state here in the United States,
but worldwide. There are protests planned in Europe and Canada,
(03:08):
and people expect the number to grow even beyond twenty
five hundred events in these different places. Protest anchor events
will take place in Atlanta, Boston, Kansas City, New Orleans
and New Orleans as they say, San Francisco, Chicago, and
of course the nation's capital of DC. And I think
the reason why we're talking about this because on this
(03:31):
week's episode, our main episode of Native Lampod. We had
a wonderful viewer asked the questions should we be participating
in no Kings? And Andrew gave his thoughts and calls
to action, So please go be sure to check out
the main episode. And look, I think you know there
is some level of black people saying yeah, when it mattered,
we did what we had to do. We screened to
(03:52):
the mountaintops, don't vote for this man. We organized, we
did go GOTV efforts, get out the vote efforts for people.
And there are some people who are a little protested out,
which I completely understand that, and I'm not here to
criticize anybody's way of functioning h and surviving the times.
(04:12):
So I applaud everybody around who does choose to participate
in the Noah King's March, wherever you may be. Michael
Harriet and I had a good conversation about it, and
he was saying, it's kind of like people in the
NBA when they're ride and by and they look at
dudes playing pickup basketball and they're like, oh, okay, that's cool,
(04:34):
Like dude made a good jump shot. And that's how
black people look at protesting.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Because we have been.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
We are pros at it. We have been protesting and
doing organizing work for so long. So I can't tell
somebody rather they should or should not participate. But I
am happy to see some pushback on this administration. I
just don't know what it stops, but I do know
we have to do something. Angela, you going Danny's in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
No, I don't feel called to protest or march, but Andrew,
I want to come to you on this too, because
I do think it's important for people to understand there
are a variety of tactics that we can and should
engage in people. I think people should go where they
feel called. What do you think rather?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I mean I tend to agree. I mean by all means,
if you're feeling the itch to get out there, but
you're trying to uphold this banner of the ninety two
and I did my part, and so am I being
a sucker if I get involved in something else. No,
I mean you live in the society. Society, you breathe
in it, you exist in it. We're not immune to
(05:38):
its impacts. In fact, we're at the epicenter of its impacts.
So for folks to take a unilateral. Look, hey, I
did my voting and I'm out. When has voting ever
been enough in this process? It's never ever been enough.
We've voted, we've voted for a long time, we've voted
since we've had the opportunity to do so. And yet
it's called for lawsuits, it's called for protests, it's called
(06:02):
for sit ins and sit outs, teach ins and teach outs.
It's called for us as a community, as society, having
to show up whatever the opportunity, for our voice to
be heard, for us to get a message across. We
got that message across. So I really, you know, I
don't I don't believe that there is some sacred space
(06:23):
where we get to retreat to and say I've done
my part, I'm tired, my feet of swollen, you go
do yours. If if the impact of the decisions on
the other side had that kind of a rollout, that'd
be one thing. Oh, the Blacks went out and they voted,
and so they don't get they won't get the tranche
of this to the third tranch around. That's not how
it works. We get the first of the negative tranch
(06:45):
and we're impacted all the way through the thing, and
so I'm not going to get up here and preach
and admonish people to go and do a thing. I'm
I'm not doing that. But I don't think that any
of us should decide that it is safe enough territory
that we went and voted, and therefore we did our thing,
(07:05):
and now we don't have another thing to do. I
don't think that makes sense, and that's not rooted in
any any part of our history. That's never been true.
Don't let other people confuse us about its truthfulness. And
at the same time, don't let anybody embarrass you or
or whip you into thinking that you've got to go
out and do a thing that you don't feel called
(07:26):
to do. But if it is hitting you this way,
and you recognize that the fight in human struggle towards
what's right is one that is continual, then you got
to do what you know you need to do. And
if no Kings is how it's formation, you know, coming
into formation for you, then no Kings it is. As
(07:47):
far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
You know, I I do feel really strongly about people
doing what they feel called to do. Every time we
had a new volunteer join us on state of the people,
and they were like, well, what what what do you
all need? What do you want me to do? And
I would always say, what do you feel called to do?
(08:09):
And it's I think that's important one because normally, where
you feel called or pulled or led, it is in
alignment with your gifts, it is in alignment with your experience,
and it's in alignment with where you feel most comfortable,
which means you'll be able to present the best version
of yourself on the thing. I grew up with a
perpetual protester, a proud agitator. We got more, you know,
(08:29):
signs in the garage for causes.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Then you know, my mom.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Certainly would like for there to be, but my dad
keeps him in case he got to run that thing back.
I guess, I don't know. And he I used to
joke all the time and say, he has a bullhorn
in the car, you know, in the trunk, and sometimes
a battery might be there, but the bullhorn is present.
And so I used to frown upon that is a
(08:54):
tactic because I felt like they expected us to do that.
And I tend to agree with what Bakari was saying about.
You know what happens when the march is over, like
what is the next step? And I do think we
often get, you know, so focused on raising the money
and building the budget around that action, but there is
(09:17):
less of a strategy around what happens after that action.
Now I'm not poopo on pop a rye, but I
am saying that too often we have we have spent
so much energy just trying trying to raise the consciousness
and the awareness around whatever the activity is that we
often lack. How we build in an infrastructure and a strategy,
(09:39):
end goals and objectives that support our liberation. And so
what I'm choosing to do in this moment is not
to lean into reactive activity, to not lean into you know,
he's doing these eighty five things sus this week, and
here's my reaction to those things. I'm really trying to
deepen into what are re sponse looks like, what a
(10:01):
response feels like, and can it be something that includes
a solution for our people? And I just feel like
sometimes those things don't always include that. Now, I will
say my ignorance here.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
No, I don't want to interrupt, I just wanted to
respond to upon it.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
My ignorance here is that I have not studied no kings,
so they may have that and I'm just not aware
of that. But I know they've done some really big activations,
and I will say I've been encouraged by the numbers
of people who are showing up, but I would be
remiss if I didn't say that there are a lot
of folks who don't look like us who are participating.
It doesn't mean that there are no black led orgs
(10:41):
or no black leaders involved, but we are overwhelmingly not present.
And I think if I were those organizers, I would
want to ask people, why, you know, what does solidarity
look like in this moment for the whole of us,
so that people feel like they should show up.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I didn't get to hear all of Baccari's message around
the phases and strategy here, but I will just say
this because I think I think we sometimes get a
little bit top heavy and sort of what's the zero
to one hundred approach on this thing? When I think
some things just serve that purpose. And I'll just say,
(11:33):
as it relates to Marsh's and just physical forms of resistance,
I probably have as a person who likes to think
of myself on the thinking, you know, what's the full
throttle piece of this, like, once we've done with this,
what is then to that? And then once we're done
with that, what's the strategy than this? And where I
have been most encouraged, where when I can't get the
(11:56):
satisfaction I want, on what the policy agenda is going
to look like in polate formation, where I have found
strength and in a reservoir of hope and a reservoir
of okay, we can do this thing. I don't know
why this feels so crazy, but it's when I looked
up and looked out and see that there were people
(12:18):
who had my back. I didn't even think they did,
just by their physical presence, the fact that they thought
enough to show up to stay in there, literally in
the gap. They didn't have to write a letter to
the paper, they didn't have to make a speech, but
their physical bodies gave me what I needed to just
(12:42):
get through that next thing. So I don't think we
should under underprize, underestimate, under calculate, under index what it
means to just be that force in the gap. And no,
I don't have the policy agenda. No I don't have
the total strategy I cannot satiate your need for a
(13:05):
policy paper, but I got my body, and right now
my body is standing right here in this moment in
resistance to what's going on. So I just I say
all that to say, do not for those of you
who physically take your bodies, who physically take yourselves down
to a No King's protest or to a movement for
(13:27):
black lives, or whatever the cause may be. I don't
want you to ever think that you're selling yourself or
the movement short because you didn't arrive there with a
complete plan in mind. Maybe what maybe was needed of
you in this moment is your physical self, so that
the person who is writing the policy paper or the
(13:47):
person in the in the will of the Senate trying
to move that policy thing to a vote and to action,
knows that they have people names that they can't call them,
faces they can't recognize outside this building, or holding it
down for them. When it feels like you can do
it all by yourself, and it finally hits on you
that you can't do this by yourself, that you can't
(14:09):
stand here alone and get what you want from and
that you need those bodies outside who are holding you
down to be right where they are. That's what your
contribution is in the moment. And I think what I
was envisioning that I think made me emotional as I
was thinking back to my trial, and I thought about
the speech of Letitia James at the top of our
(14:30):
show this week, and I was thinking about all these
people who will finding themselves in the legal cross hairs
of the system. While while many of us are opining
that ohe a judge and a jury and a whatever,
we'll see right through this and that there'll be vindication
on the other side, Well before you ever get to vindication,
(14:50):
there's a lot of sleepless nights and worry. And so
where my prayers go to for Letitia James and for
so many others is for their mental and spiritual health
(15:11):
and well being. What they're going through, something that they
don't deserve, and that many of us are believing that
on the other side of this will be justice. My
prayers go to their mental and spiritual health right now,
and that they'll have the fortitude to push through it
(15:34):
when everybody else is considered this a pretty drawn out conclusion,
it'll be okay, a judge, jury, and people of decent
and common sense will see the ridiculousness of this all
and they'll be fine. On the other side, well, every
night and every day, and every night and every day,
they still have to question will I have enough to
make mortgage? Will I be able to pull down enough
(15:57):
to ensure to my kids' colle you know, fund and
so on and so forth. I don't want to go
down the list of it, but just know there are
humans on the other sides of these titles. There are
humans on the other side of these charges. There's doubt,
there's fear, there's confusion, there's all other sorts of things.
When the leader of the free world is the on
the is on the up, you know, the opposite side
(16:18):
of you in this fight.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
You know, ag I just want to thank you. You
know I had intended in our main episode. I just
wish we had more time because I really wanted to
hear from you about you know, every time you see
another one of these cases drop if it's triggering for you,
and so I even appreciate like the connection drawn to
(16:44):
like the no King's protests, and you've seen it as
a sign of solidarity with folks who are on the
other side of a vast abuse of power by this administration,
including the targeting and the selective prosecution of his political enemies.
So I I'm really grateful for you sharing that, and
I hope we can get this to Tish so that
(17:06):
she can see that she's certainly not forgotten, and in fact,
you see, the opposition of the people is something that
is deeply supportive of folks like you, and folks like
Tish and Marilyn and Lisa Cook and Fannie Willis who
have all been on the other side of this man
who wishes you were king, and people who are over like, folding, over,
(17:30):
bending over, taking a knee bow and whatever it is
to give him exactly what he wants. But we're not
always as clear about the people who are on the
other side of that and who have survived it, and
the long term impacts of having to find the strength
and the wherewithal to survive it. So I just wanted
to say thank you.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Oh I wish I could have given it without so
many tears. I don't even know. I think I feel
pheel bottled up probably on this, but you're right, every
time you see it, it is a revisiting of it.
For me, it's sort of like, you know, I hate
listening to the folks. Oh well, comment and decent people
will know that this is just such and such and such,
And I'm thinking you all are miscalculating the impact of
(18:11):
this wildly for people who are enduring it.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Your family's the cost, like the actual like we're talking
about the emotional cost. We talked about that too, and
the financial cost. Right Tis, James is in a slightly
different position because there's a legal defense fund that's being
raised for there are folks like Andrew who did not
have that at least not you know, to the full extent.
So I just think it is so important for us
(18:36):
to consistently revisit that and good brother, where you're feeling
bottled up, I hope that you see this as a
safe space to not only share, but also to offer
folks like tishan others a blueprint for how to navigate
it and do so successfully. Tif, I don't know if
you have anything none.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
No, I don't really have a lot to contribute except
to say thank you Andrew for your humanity and what
you shared, because even people whose case I know, we're
going to try to get this statist James and others,
but there are so many people whose cases do not
elevate to national news, who could be facing federal or
local charges because they're ensnared in a very punishing and
(19:15):
racist criminal justice system that does not prioritize our humanity
at all. So just thank you for sharing that. I
also want to say I have not yet watched, but
I want to encourage our viewers. I'm planning on watching
right now the conversation with Janney Nelson, who just argued
before the Supreme Court this week, And I just feel
(19:38):
touch that there's a black woman who made the argument
on behalf of voting rights and the first person she
left the Supreme Court and the first person that she
chose to sit down with was Angela and so I
just think that is a testament to who Angela Ria
is and what this Native Land platform means. So I
hope our audience will help elevate this very important interview
(20:01):
and show why Native Land Pod is such an important platform.
So if you like anything you heard in this conversation,
please share it, and if you do tune into the
Jennae Nelson interview, please share that. Not only is it informative,
but it certainly helps us be able to secure more
timely interviews like that where we're so often ignored and
discarded by white run newsrooms and legacy media that is
(20:23):
increasingly a dying force as they continue to fill us
every day. So thank you, guys.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well, welcome home, y'all. Native Lamb Pod is a production
of iHeartRadio and partnership with Rezent Choice Media. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(20:51):
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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