Target Autopsy–Who Gets to Speak for the People?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native lamd Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reason's Joye. Okay, so I'm gonna do that again,
and the first time I'm gonna hear from you is
after I welcome everybody.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Two one, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, Welcome home.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Y'all.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
This is episode seventy six of Native Lamp Pod where
we give it to you straight, no chaser, and we
talk about pretty much everything.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
I am here with my co host Andrew Gilla.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
Everybody. Welcome home, Welcome home, Welcome to my home.

Speaker 5 (00:32):
I know.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Florida, you guys.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Angela, I will tell you in transparency, is on her way.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
She is juggling a thousand.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
Things and so to the ground.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yes, she got stuck in traffic and so she is
joining us shortly.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
So you're aware. The ladies are here to attend a conference.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
We're attending a conference for women for black women. I'm
Keim Blackwell hosts the conference. We were here last year,
all three of us. Yes, and Andrew was quite the
hit on.

Speaker 6 (01:02):
Stage, hit and more importantly, the audience was the head
They were That was one.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Of my favorite shows. So you guys remember that because
we did a live show that day. Also, there will
be a special guest joining us which you will see
later at the very end, So tune in for all
of our viewers. You will see this our listeners, we
will describe to you.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
The guest is yes, yes, Andrew.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
You know, we never get to all the questions that
we have on viewer questions send us in, so we
have a viewer question. I think they sent it in
like a week or so ago, but I think it's
a great question to get the discussion started. So the
producer Nick, let's roll that clip.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
Welcome, What's up to me? Andrew?

Speaker 7 (01:48):
And Andrew myna is coach or Flum with Katucky born
and raised West End.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
I have a cool question.

Speaker 7 (01:54):
Why do you think a lot of Black Americans aren't
really considering moving The majority Black Americans aren't really considering
moving to an African country to like start businesses and.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
All of that stuff goes so much further. She takes
the tams that you have and just move.

Speaker 7 (02:07):
But I mean, I feel you. I feel something y'all's
politics and stuff like that. I feel you.

Speaker 8 (02:11):
For sure.

Speaker 7 (02:12):
It took me because I might tell you what people
today's face and when they don't. One point is why
do y'all think that is that a lot of black
Americans aren't because I know we built America, but.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
We've never ran in America.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
I love that question. And right on cue.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
The question.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
I want you to know I have eight thousand degrees.
It is hot, and look at Angela.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
She bought seattle with her got it's hot. It's all
get out.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
I'm hot, I'm sweating. I probably got y'all.

Speaker 6 (02:43):
We warned in the opening that Angela is like running
it at both ends.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
She's burning the let me hear you.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
Let me hear you burning burning the candle from both ends.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
And the first time I wanted to hear how he
was going by saying, right, so said burning the candle
at both ends of the stick.

Speaker 6 (03:03):
Oh that is not that is what it really does mean,
burning it at both ends.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
But you know it works fine.

Speaker 6 (03:12):
We're here speaking of I thought we were talking about
sayings because I bought my book of We should get
to that.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
That's the way we have one.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
But before we get into that, I just wanted to
let you all know that Angela is joining us. And
we just heard a great viewer question about why don't
more black people move to Africa.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
I have a lot of thoughts.

Speaker 6 (03:30):
You've You've been quite a future to the continent and
and to many countries. Most of my trips to Africa
have been North Africa in the Islamic part yeah. Uh, Egypt, Cairo, Uh.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
I've been to.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
Morocco, yes.

Speaker 6 (03:49):
But but but I think what he's talking about probably
some of West Africa.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
So, Angela and I went to Ghana for It's gonna
make me laugh.

Speaker 5 (04:00):
You so tired?

Speaker 4 (04:02):
Oh no, you're gonna say no, you ate some something.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
No, No, I will address those comments in a moment.
But Angela and I went to Ghana for New Year's
in twenty twenty two and just had a most amazing time.
But let me say this about moving to Africa, because
I love the question and I love the concepts. You know,
you've talked a lot about expanding our imagination. I honestly

(04:27):
think that's a question of privilege. You know, there are
a select few of us who have the means to
do that, who have the family ties to do that.
You know, I could not just up and leave my
mother here. You know who I helped support, My brother
is here, Like those things would be challenging a lot
of people don't have passports to even do that, so

(04:51):
I think we have to keep that in mind. But
I will say that was one of the themes, the
pronounced theme that I felt in Ghana with the people there,
especially our tour guides and people who were really pouring
into us with knowledge. It did seem like the sentiment was,
it's so strange that you all choose to live in America,

(05:12):
that you choose to live alongside the descendants of your enslavers,
when you could come home and live here.

Speaker 6 (05:19):
You know, I was going to ask you, based on
your experience, what your experience has been with folks from
African countries that are populated, you know, overwhelmingly by black folk,
how they feel about that, because when I hear it,
I feel a little bit like maybe how folks felt
with carpetbaggers, you know, the folks who sort of come

(05:41):
in from outside, and now you're going to come here
and you think you're the You're the one we've been
waiting on to open a business, right the start, a
farmersty to do this, to do that. So I've got
a little bit. But once we get over that, and
so long as that's not an issue that you know
that we'd be confronted by. I think most people think

(06:01):
of the continent of Africa obviously as a foreign place.
Haven't been, don't have relatives that knowingly have relatives there,
And it's a big move to start a business anywhere.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
But if your experiences have been here in America, you're.

Speaker 6 (06:16):
Not likely to uproot everything and take a chance that
you can move to another country, start a business and
be balling you know, you know, left and right overnight.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
That's just not going to be the story.

Speaker 6 (06:27):
But for those who do, and to the extent that
it is done in the right way with respect for
the community.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
I say, you know, go for it. Yeah, Angelia, you
had thoughts on the move, the shift, the great migration,
the greater migration.

Speaker 8 (06:42):
What is very present for me right now?

Speaker 9 (06:44):
Even when Tip was talking about her mom, like I
can't go to the continent.

Speaker 8 (06:50):
I don't know, like we have one of my mom.

Speaker 9 (06:55):
Is being treated at the second best cancer hospitals in
one of the seconds the second best cancer hospital in
the country.

Speaker 8 (07:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (07:03):
I'm not saying that there aren't remedies and aren't solutions
for cancer treatment. On the continent, But I just the
unknown of that is more than I can bear.

Speaker 8 (07:14):
My dad is not.

Speaker 9 (07:15):
Even Seattle, okay. And I think what is also in
my heart is like I know that also there are
pharmaceutical drugs and other things, herbal remedies, naturopathic remedies on
the continent that regardless of what kind of treatment they are,
they are more affordable than here. So I see the

(07:35):
positives in the negatives. My mom has to get these
white blood cell injections right now to keep her like
blood white blood cell count up because chemo suppresses your
white blood cell count and your ability to fight off
disease or ailments, and so does immuno therapy. She's getting
both and her injections two weeks ago. We're ten dollars

(08:01):
with her insurance this week when we went to get them,
or no, it was last week. The week prior to that,
it was ten dollars. Last week when we went, the
guy was like, we're gonna have to get another medication?
Said why, he said, it's nine hundred and something dollars, right,
So I just I'm like, what they're trying to do

(08:23):
to humanity in this country is crazy, and I do
want our people to go somewhere where they can be safeer,
where we're appreciated. We're welcoming all of that, but there
are all these conundrums that we have to deal with,
especially as we age. I guess what I'm gonna say is,
young people, if you can go.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
While you're young, Yeah, I think that's real.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
But I think the most important thing to me that
you said is about the healthcare system there. You know,
we just don't know what is health insurance.

Speaker 6 (08:50):
Like.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
It's obviously they have qualified doctors and treatment. But can
we as people who are expats, who are not citizens,
can we go and get that health care? What we
have to have private insurance?

Speaker 8 (09:03):
I'm going to ask them that there are good questions.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, well it's different and obviously in each country.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
There's different questions.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, because Ghana is if I were going to move,
it would be the one hundred percent to Ghana.

Speaker 6 (09:18):
The fact that we started this, the consideration around access,
affordability healthcare, I think is a bigger indication.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
Of where we are in life in our ages right now.
You know the Sandwich generation, you're raising young ones. I
know this well. In fact, literally left my house this morning.

Speaker 6 (09:34):
My mama was upstairs and the kids were, you know,
getting them ready for school and whatnot. But but a
lot of folks have parents that they're caring for or
increasingly beginning to take on more responsibility, and you got
little ones that you're trying, you know, trying to raise.
I think the questions will likely be different depending upon
where you are in life right now. Young folks who

(09:57):
are unattached might look for a little bit of adventure
and willingness to try something new. Because you're only taking
care of yourself. You don't have to have all the
money in the world. And because you're young, as saying,
as the statistic go that you're generally healthier, so you
don't have to have such a reliance on that system access.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yes, a reliance on it, probably not.

Speaker 6 (10:17):
Like we would going to see a doctor, you know,
on regular checkups and whatnot, So different stages. And then
folks who have already established successful businesses here or have
had ideas or have been in industries that they feel like,
oh god, okay, looks like either the supply chain or
maybe the demand for this thing is going to be
greater on the.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
Other on the other side of the on the other
side of the world.

Speaker 6 (10:40):
So there are a lot of considerations. I'm all for
you know, all for going. I just hope we don't
get over there and act like Americans.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, where you can become the gentrifiers.

Speaker 6 (10:50):
That and that, you know, just like our standard and
our expectation is this and therefore that.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, like you you move like waite folks exactly.

Speaker 6 (11:01):
We talked about this, can white folks be can black
folks also be oppressors?

Speaker 4 (11:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (11:06):
You picked the question, and I think I don't know
what the comments were saying, but I think universally we
could all probably point to an example, an example of
that kind of abusive trait of the you know, this
hegemonist you know, you know, toxic sort of situation.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
Emerging.

Speaker 6 (11:28):
And I just I hated every international trip I took
as an elected official as part of those sort of groups.
I was on many occasions very embarrassed, and almost every
time at the end of the night, the countries who
were visiting, which were largely brown places, if you will,
you know, would ask me like, how do you do this?

(11:48):
You know, like they have their own sayings and they
do it, and you know, it was just interesting to
me that it didn't matter where I went at the
end of the night, as the only black guy in
the delegations was seeing the locals would come around, yes,
and it's like how did you achieve that there?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (12:08):
Or do you ever want to leave there? You know
those kinds of things.

Speaker 8 (12:12):
Yeah, they were trying to flash with the.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
Yeah, yeah, I give you yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Well we met a lot of expats in Ghana. Just
because we're talking about this. I didn't know we were
going to be talking about this today, But just this week,
Ghana has outlawed foreigners mining their goal there, which I'm
like about time, you know, because they have pillaged and
plundered that continent in the price if you'll watching the markets,

(12:41):
you know, gold is a commodity, right exactly, So I
would like to see and I know a lot of
people who are building property there, and you know, there's
a lot of Americans who have found peace there. I
felt that way when we were there, we well, we
all wept, you know when we saw the history and
what our people gone through. But we also had a

(13:01):
really good time, you know, like we had some of
the most that's when I stopped eating meat. We had
some of the most amazing meals in Ghana. We stayed
at a beautiful hotel. We just had a great time.
So I don't want anyone to misunderstand what we're saying
about moving to Ghana. I think people should explore moving
to the continent.

Speaker 8 (13:19):
I want to give property there.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Do you really in Ghana or just yeah? I think
that would be amazing.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
I think hopefully.

Speaker 6 (13:26):
I think Hawaii should have done this as part of
its negotiated agreement to become part of America. There are
a lot of European countries that are already do it.
Where you cannot own the majority share of a business, yeah,
if you are not a citizen of that country. So
if you go to you know, many places in the

(13:47):
Middle East and you say I want to open up
a suit shop, and my suit shops are you know,
renowned everywhere, Well, you got to have a fifty one
percent majority owner who is of that country in order
to own a business.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
Otherwise the government has to buy into it and make
that decision. Yes, because what happens is is folks come
up right from up under you.

Speaker 6 (14:09):
I think across many countries in Africa, the most prestigious
right on land is not to the owner who owns
the land on top. It's to the folks who have
resource licenses, resource access to what happens underneath their requirements,
Their demands take precedence even over the folks who own
the land, These mineral rights that exist, the same thing

(14:31):
Trump was trying to negotiate with in Ukraine. And so
you have, yes, you have folks who own property, but
they don't own what's beneath the property. Some corporation X
Y Z owns it and can go in there and drill, drill, drill,
and change the whole landscape.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
Of where these folks lives.

Speaker 6 (14:49):
So I hope, I hope they are as protectionists as
they need to be to ensure that you know, again
those suppressive and white supremacist tactics and antics don't re
infiltrate the way that countries, these countries are led.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, well, Hawaii does have some programs where the local
API community, like if you're Hawaiian born, you get a
discount on things. So that is one territory that has
been gentrified. They have brought up all the property. So
I mean the same things that we're seeing in our
inner cities across America, like that is happening in Hawaii.
As well, and they are taking active steps to stop that.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
So I don't know. All right, we got to take
a quick break, but we'll see you on the other side.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
Donald Trump is trying to have it all his way.

Speaker 6 (15:47):
But one of the one of the slap backs or
clapbacks that I appreciated in these last couple of days,
slap backs.

Speaker 8 (15:53):
Clatbacks is not a thing, not at all, but clapbacks, Okay,
clap backs.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
You know me, I make up saying.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yes all the time for a long time, both ends.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
And yeah, that's true too.

Speaker 6 (16:06):
But but one of the knockdowns that I appreciated was
Harvard basically say no, no, and hell no to all
of the administration's demands with regard to, you know, their
ability to have say in admissions, teaching credentials, degree programs,
what type of targeted research and institution does. Basically they

(16:29):
were going to be demanding. What they did obviously of
Columbia similarly, is a bending of the knee of the
institution and the ending of any any, any version of
academic freedom as it exists. The hallmark of our system
of education. Part of that hallmark one is that teachers,
particularly after they are tenured can't be fired for their

(16:52):
views for you know, their teaching style orientation while in
the classroom, for.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
Their political views outside of it, or even in class.

Speaker 6 (17:00):
They can write off eds, both of them, so on
and so forth. And this administration wants to we already
know it squelched all opposition.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
Yeah, any any.

Speaker 6 (17:10):
Contrarian view in the opposite saying. And Harvard, so far
as I can tell, along with a number of of
law firms that have taken.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
A stand, thank god.

Speaker 8 (17:22):
Yeah, not that many numbers, but but not.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
But the truth is is that more it's probably the
only we can call out in higher education right now,
so far, so far, And.

Speaker 6 (17:33):
Again we can't ignore the privilege obviously that our Harvard
has to be able to make this decision, these kinds
of decisions.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
The endowment.

Speaker 10 (17:40):
I think they've got an endowment that's a multidowment.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
You and I we both not at the same time,
but we taught there for a semester.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
And I heard this idiot saying that he taught there
and he was treated like a pariah because he's a conservative.
And it's so ridiculous that they don't recognis Harvard is
not this liberal institution of leftist extremist thought. You know,
like there are a lot of challenges at the school
that students are confronting. And what concerns me about Donald

(18:13):
Trump even going after these institutions of higher education. It
is right out of the dictator's Playla. This is precisely
I think it was Putin who said wars are not
one on the battlefield, they're one in the classroom. Modi
of India has targeted universities, has targeted universities like Dictator

(18:36):
after dictator has gone after classrooms and control thought.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah, because they don't want you thinking right right to
the exactly they want you thinking. They want you thinking
what they are teaching you to think.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, the Oban that's what I say.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
In Hungary or bon in Hungary has also, i think,
attempted to privatize universities.

Speaker 6 (18:57):
It's classic because if you can tell the people what
to think, yes, you know, then you start to tell
them how to you know, and all the actions that
flow from it. You'll recognize that it's largely going to
be in submission to government, right to the oligarchical rule,
to whoever is in charge. They're going to teach us

(19:18):
at the reason why we don't have. What we think
we ought to have and what we think we are
to own is that by divine birthright.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
You know, our divine right did not entitle us to it. Yeah,
and if you teach your people that over time, you could.

Speaker 6 (19:31):
I mean, there's there, there's a whole generational folks who
exist right now, y'all who don't know their privacy rights
because they've made everything so public public post public pictures
how you're feeling in a moment, They wouldn't and they
wouldn't know right now how to fight back around a
First Amendment challenge like do I not have the right
to say speak.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
What I believe?

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Or even confronted in real time with with representatives of
the state, like how do you inter interact with them?
I was trying to on this quote which I just found,
but I also wanted to point out and I am
going to embarrass myself because Andrew, you will tell me
how to pronounce his name Pino Che, Yes, Pinochet, not
Pino che.

Speaker 8 (20:15):
What's that?

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, he was a Pinocchio. Pinochet in Chile was also
a person who took over universities and.

Speaker 6 (20:29):
Ran as a outsider, bringing in the voice of the
regular people, which.

Speaker 5 (20:34):
Is generally it is all the same.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
And when you see this, when you see the similar patterns,
it is frightening. But the quote that I was trying
to look up while you were talking, it's from our
own Carter G. Woodson, who of course is one of
the or the founder of Black History Month. But he says,
if you can control a man's thinking, you do not
have to worry about his action.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
Yes, set him there, yes there. If there is no
back door, he will create one for its special.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Purpose and our own American history. I mean, this is
not the first time that we have banned books. But
also even the idea of banning books that is straight
out of Nazi Germany. So the idea that we're actually
there have been ceremonies where they're burning books. I mean,
it's just a weird thing. But also it's dumb because
I'm looking at these white folks, I'm like, why you
want your kids to be dumbered in ours? They don't like,

(21:23):
don't you want your children to know the real history
of America. Don't you want your children to know the
authentic story of the American Revolution?

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Don't you want the victors?

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Never want history? What the oppressed have done? They don't.

Speaker 6 (21:40):
The worst thing the Bible could have done was given
us a day of think David and Goliath story.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yeah, no one wants it reported that the poor guy
from nowhere, of no name, of no background, of.

Speaker 6 (21:51):
No privilege or wealth or title can be the biggest, tallest, baddest, richest, wealthiest,
most connected thing in the room, because that could inspire
an uprising of the proletariat.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Which I predict might happen across as we see the
rise of populism, because it's a global issue. And so
I want to encourage you all again out there, if
you pay attention to what's happening across the globe, you
see there is nothing new happening here in America. Other
continents have been dealing with this for quite a while,
and you've been trying to get in.

Speaker 9 (22:20):
I was just going to say, we're having a conversation
about because I think it's not just about Harvard or education.
It's anybody that has the audacity to think differently than
this administration will be targeted. So particularly those who have
the audacity also to protect like our civil rights and
civil liberty. So we've been having some conversations about what

(22:44):
they have the ability to do. And I won't say who,
but a lawyer among us who is brilliant, you list
know I wouldn't do that.

Speaker 8 (22:55):
I might, I might be a little cocky, but not
black cocky.

Speaker 9 (23:01):
But she provided a list of things that nonprofits can
do to survive in this moment, and I got to
be honest with you. One of the first things was
that the president does not have the ability to unilaterally
revoke any organization's tax exempt status by law. That's the
key word, her key phrase, the presidents the president is

(23:24):
prohibited from directly or indirectly influencing tax related decisions of
the Internal Revenue Service.

Speaker 8 (23:30):
Meanwhile, this man is doing this every day. So I
think that the.

Speaker 9 (23:36):
I'm concerned that we keep trying to prepare a response
that would work in a time where someone was actually
obeying the law and not deliberately trying to break it
and break systems. Someone who will be like the Supreme
Court rules and he's like, oh, yeah, we're gonna follow it,

(23:56):
but they're doing something completely different. So I just wonder
what protection really does look like in this era for
our schools, for our institutions, for our organizations, for human beings, for.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Us individualis yet for human beings.

Speaker 9 (24:13):
Right, So I'm saying, if it's not business as usual,
and I keep saying this to myself, we have to
stop responding with a business as usual response.

Speaker 8 (24:24):
Yes, but to me, well, does that leave us with war?

Speaker 5 (24:29):
Yes? I think so.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yes, the Civil War did not begin with the firing
of the you know, first musket or banet or whatever.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Like we are in the Civil war now. I mean,
I don't think it's not that, but don't you feel that?
Don't you?

Speaker 5 (24:44):
I feel that way?

Speaker 8 (24:46):
I mean, I yes, I feel that, but I keep
wanting not to feel that. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Like I A'm helt for war? Like I what do
you want me to do?

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Like I disagree, I think we are. I think I
don't want to go you cannot want it. But I
think I really believe we are built for war, right,
But I don't want.

Speaker 9 (25:09):
To Yeah, yeah, like that is gonna be. Like our
people have suffered enough. I'm tired of suffering.

Speaker 8 (25:19):
And it's not even me.

Speaker 9 (25:20):
I'm tired of watching the suffering of our people, like
even right now. And this is tangential, but it is
important because this is my response to the battle. My
response to the battle has been to join a coalition
with every organization he would probably target, all of the
people he would probably target to do this state is
a people thing.

Speaker 8 (25:38):
First the marathon, now the power Tour.

Speaker 9 (25:41):
I am doing everything I can, and I'm working alongside
people who are doing everything they can because we don't
want what he's offering. It is our way to summarily
reject it and to provide an alternative. And it still
feels like that might not be enough.

Speaker 8 (26:00):
Yeah, and like the in this I think now.

Speaker 9 (26:03):
I'm gonna sound like Tiff where she's been discouraged. It's like,
if we're here to prepare you, if we're here to
show you, like if Twitter goes down or Instagram because
all of these holes were at the inauguration in his face, If.

Speaker 8 (26:19):
You don't have any of those tools, what are you
going to do? How are you going to mobilize? We
are implementing those things so you're connected. If you don't
sign up, if you won't join in because you don't
like who's leading, if you mad because you didn't get
to teach a workshop, like what are we doing?

Speaker 1 (26:39):
I think that goes to the whole conversation about the
movement and leadership, you know, because in every movement it's
been that kind of strife.

Speaker 8 (26:46):
That's you know, that's true.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
I mean, you look at How, but I don't know
that it's always ego because I look at Stokely how
Stokely was kind of coming for MLK a few times,
and I don't think it was Stokely's ego.

Speaker 9 (27:01):
I think, so, No, you don't think any of it
had to do with like I'm telling you all his
tactics are off, My tactics are right.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
Is that ego?

Speaker 6 (27:09):
It is?

Speaker 8 (27:10):
Okay, your way, that's right, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
It presupposes that I feel I have opinions about people's ways,
and I don't know that it doesn't feel y'all tell
me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 10 (27:22):
It doesn't feel like also doesn't have to be a
pejorative every time. Okay, if we were to look at
ego not neutrally that a person has ego, Beyonce has
ego and right, yeah, you know, such a fear that.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
Yeah, but then but that's right, so.

Speaker 6 (27:39):
An alter ego, but which we recognize and we appreciate
when that alter ego shows up. But for some reason,
in leadership and an ambition and then who's in front
of the room. Ambition then takes on a negative turn,
and I think the real and and be and more
importantly ego. What has to be checked about it is

(27:59):
it's that What has to be checked about it is
when you're walking into a certain place to be world
aware enough to know that you may not be the
most seasoned, experience, well read and prepared person there. That
means you have to relate to that where it shows up,
but also to stand your ground when it has gone wrong.
One of the things that I really hate is when
folks show up and I said this on our mini

(28:21):
pod that we did a couple of weeks ago, where folks,
it's like, no, we said it last week, welcome us into.

Speaker 4 (28:27):
The room as young people.

Speaker 6 (28:28):
And then my response partnering was no, I mean with
the universal theme, our response is when you get in there, though,
you got to show some deference to the folks who
have been there.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
For twenty years.

Speaker 8 (28:39):
Can you say it again? Can you say it again?

Speaker 4 (28:41):
Well?

Speaker 6 (28:41):
Yeah, I mean I default in so many ways in
those spaces to a staffer. You didn't think I've ever
run for anything in my life or that I want
I want you to have your coffee and your water,
that you are as comfortable as you can be because
you were in this fight, in this struggle when it
wasn't popular. There was no hashtag to it, there was
no currency, you know, public currency for being involved.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
In fact, it came. It came riff with all the
risks and consequences that are negative, but you did it.
You stood. Then Who am I to suppose, with.

Speaker 6 (29:17):
All the rights you didn't have, that I can walk
into this space and then disrupt it and tell you
that you've been doing it wrong.

Speaker 9 (29:23):
And that's the thing that that it frustrates me because
we do assume, like we've been studying Gary Indiana a lot.
In nineteen seventy two, there's a documentary. Do I say
all about this documentary called Nation Time that really examines
everything they did for the National Black Political Convention. And

(29:43):
I think that a lot of us have gone through
a season at some point in our lives where we're like,
I know what it is, they just didn't have this right.

Speaker 8 (29:53):
That's not always what it is. That's not always what
it is.

Speaker 9 (29:57):
And Gary Coleman Young, who later becomes the mayor of Detroit,
walked his whole delegation out because they disagreed on a
labor issue and approach. So I'm just saying, right now,
this is not the era where we can disagree on
approach and the thing falls apart and the thing crumbles.
Our ability to thrive in this moment, our ability to

(30:21):
survive really at this moment, has to move tactics aside.
We have to try multiple tactics and still be together.
I'm gonna use a very controversial example right now, Target.

Speaker 8 (30:35):
Target.

Speaker 9 (30:36):
So last week, I don't know when y'all gonna watch this,
Tiff is mad at me just recently yes.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Week.

Speaker 9 (30:44):
Okay, I just said that, but it really was last week.
So we're gonna be like say, last month. But recently,
I'll sharp to him met with the Target CEO. He
put up a post with him in the picture with
the charge CEO, Franklin Richardson, who's his board chair and

(31:05):
one of his advisors, and people were relentless. They went
off on him, how dare you do this? Blah blah
blah blah blah. Jamal Brian later shared that he was
in that meeting actually, but people including me were upset
that Jamal wasn't there. But Jamal was there, and so
I'm bringing this up as an example of something. Reverend

(31:28):
OL's tactics are different. His tactics are when I'm doing something,
I'm going to tell you all because I want, in
his mind, I want to be accountable to the people.

Speaker 8 (31:39):
So that you know what I've done. That is a tactic.

Speaker 9 (31:43):
There are civil rights leaders, including Reverend Jackson, who embraced
that tactic. There are others who think that if you
advertise what you've done, it's an endorsement or it says
that now, don't worry y'all, I got it. We're good,
and that's that's an approach, right, and there's broad disagreement
on which way is right or wrong.

Speaker 8 (32:07):
Either one could be right around.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
I was going to ask that you have an opinion
on which one is right around.

Speaker 9 (32:11):
I think the thing that I would, and I feel
bad because I have not talked to him about this.
I would invite him into considering everything not needing to
be in the press, especially when the deal is not struck.
I don't know that my approach is right. I think
that there are people who see that and they get

(32:33):
energized by him posting like, oh, look, we want to battle,
so now maybe we could win the war. Like I
get that, but I also think that our tactics have
to be more sophisticated. Like there are young business leaders
that I would invite into those conversations because they talk

(32:54):
to those leaders at those corporations in ways that I don't.
I think that maybe there shouldn't be one at the
table or just two because four, because there were four,
but like have different types of people at.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yes, Okay, I have something to say on all of this,
but to keep us on target, wink wink, see what
I did there. We're gonna take a quick commercial break
and I'll weigh in on the other side. Well, I

(33:27):
had a challenge, I'll say, because it looked like a
win for Target, Like you got this picture, you got
to go promote it.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
I will say this about Rev.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
He invited me to join him on his radio show
weekly where we would talk politics and help me build
a following during my time at MSNBC. I think he
tried to be helpful while I was there and extended
himself to me. So I appreciate that from Rev and Sharp,
and I just want to be very transparent about that.

(33:58):
I also want to be very transparent about the fact
that there is this perception that Revern Sharpton is a
leader in Black America.

Speaker 6 (34:05):
He is.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
A leader.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yes, there's a very tiny there's a very tiny sect
of Black America who follows the steps of Reverend Sharpton.
I do not believe, or I don't I won't believe.
I know that he does not lead the masses as
he once did. Well, yes, though, that's my point, are
not we are a leaderless movement. To your point, we're

(34:31):
a leaderless movement at this point, there is no you know,
back in the day pre Twitter and you know Instagram,
we have five, you know, five to ten leaders, and
even all the leaders didn't get shine. You know, doctor
Dorothy Hyde was a member at that table. She did
not always get her shine. You know, there are a
lot of women in the movement, black women in the

(34:51):
movement who did not get the still designed right of
national leadership. So when you think of civil rights, who
you think of doctor King and Malcolm Xcuse that's the
first two. And it's not really like that anymore. Well,
there's a ton that we probably think of. But you know,
you ask your average person Jackson, Yes, well, Reverend Jackson,
though it was post, but I think they were posting

(35:12):
civil civil posted Jim Crow posted rights like they came up.
They were under the tutelage right exactly. But we could
name we could name a hundred, But I'm saying like this,
the people you think of are doctor King and Malcolm X,
who had different approaches. You know, Stokely was under them
and had an issue with how they were leading. So

(35:33):
my point is because a lot of people have comments
about that, and I think we do have leaders who
are loyal to power, you know, and loyal to.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Brand.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
And so I think by posting a picture like that
that people took that like what did you specifically get
out of this meeting? Did they write you or National
Action Network of check and even.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
If they did, you know, like whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
I don't know what deal with s truck, But those
were questions and comments that people were asking, and I
think to avoid that, to really be of the people,
it does take employing some different tactics.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
I don't think this is moving with ego.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Y'all are telling me, you know, if you have an
issue with someone's tactics, that might be ego. I humbly say,
I don't mean it. In ego, but I'm open to
you all corrected me that if I'm wrong, you know,
no tip here is I feel like Angelo is not
crying by the way, I just have no voice.

Speaker 8 (36:30):
I'm sorry. I should talk quieter and it'll be more soothing.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Sexy and waspy.

Speaker 8 (36:36):
This is my Andrew.

Speaker 5 (36:40):
Quiet store.

Speaker 8 (36:42):
Hey, everybody, I just want you to And I was
gonna say, you know, I think that.

Speaker 9 (36:52):
One conundrum that I do feel and where I felt
for rev in that moment, is there are a whole
conversations that are had and people make a decision off
of what they see in the picture and develop a
narrative because all they have is what you said and
the image. They don't have a readout from the meeting,

(37:13):
and sometimes you can't really do that because you got.

Speaker 8 (37:16):
To keep things moving. So I feel for them a
little bit because there was a whole narrative that was
shared based on that.

Speaker 9 (37:25):
Now, the part that I didn't feel for was if
you didn't put it out because there were several other
civil rights orgs that had met with Target before and
none of us knew. So as the story began to unfurl,
it was like, oh, like that's fine, you know, I
don't see anything wrong with that, but the masses don't
always know that. So I'm also curious to know how

(37:46):
much do we tell the people if we also can say,
if we agree with Prince that black folks are the
only one that put our whole strategy up on a website,
what parts of this should we keep to ourselves while
we allow the thing to unfurl in our favor.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
I don't know all of it. Yeah you don't.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
You you're saying keep all of it to ourselves.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
At levels of engage movement shifting.

Speaker 6 (38:14):
So the call was put out to the people, and
the people have responded for the tenth consecutive week, put
traffic down by over nine percent, and Target stores across
the country that has been since the start of the
announced boycott, and they're backtracking on DEI.

Speaker 4 (38:36):
We know that there is an impact being had because
there would not have been.

Speaker 6 (38:40):
A call to a Reverend Sharpton or anybody else to
come step foot at Target headquarters were this not.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
Landing in some way or.

Speaker 6 (38:49):
At nan which either or doesn't matter, because if the
currency is we all know this. A picture is worth
a thousand words. Nobody knows it better than Rev. Sharpton himself.
Nobody knows it better. What I have to believe is
that there is a strategy that is not known to

(39:10):
me and us that has to be underway, because I
don't think Reverend Sharpton would have gifted what is a
big piece of the currency for being at the table,
which is the image that says a thousand words and
the midst of a protest that's been going on for
nine weeks rather successfully.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
Here comes this new inflection. Why did it happen? It
starts to chatter it. You know, the company can use
it any way they want.

Speaker 6 (39:36):
Quite frankly, they can image that however they choose to
use to for the photo. And now it can be
used to suggest some things that may not have been right.
But who read the fine line to determine.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
That that wasn't right?

Speaker 8 (39:47):
So just say, what if you released it? I'm not
saying this is true, but what if you released it
before they did? Maybe they should have said no pictures allowed?

Speaker 5 (39:56):
That's what?

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Is there a reason why jamal Brian is not in
a photo? Or is you a photo.

Speaker 8 (40:02):
Released photo?

Speaker 6 (40:04):
There is a reason my pastor Bishop as I call him,
Jamal Brian is not in a published photo because his
understanding of the assignment was we can see where we are,
we should keep in touch around how you all are
moving back toward this commitment in these benchmarks, and so
we've got to be in communication, open discussion about that.
But there will not be an announcement around us sitting

(40:26):
down until there's an agreement to be signed.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, and there's no agreement.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
There's none of that. There's nothing there, but there is
a photo. So what I'm saying is is I have
to believe, given Rev's life experience, is no how through
this this thing.

Speaker 6 (40:42):
I mean, I've watched these things being played in real
time with certain speakers can come up on the stage,
but you must have done such and such and such
to be one of them.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
You know a lot about this behind the scenes work
that you're not saying, which you're not saying what I
can appreciate because.

Speaker 6 (40:58):
Because there are things that happen behind the sides, and
by the way, the masses shouldn't be charged with following
a hook line sinker every step here. The call has
gone out to us and we're doing our part while
that's happening. I have to assume that organizers on the
inside are doing their part, and they're not acting recklessly
and doing so because they're.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Carrying on their shoulder. They're carrying our purse.

Speaker 6 (41:24):
The reason why you're in the room is because they
believe you're negotiating on behalf of our purse.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
And I don't know that the people felt like the
masses may not have felt like Revernd sharp and was
negotiating on their behalf. And we don't know because I
wasn't at the meeting.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
I don't know what.

Speaker 6 (41:40):
Because I think the masses probably absorbed what we absorb
is that a picture is worth a thousand words, and
you don't give a.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Picture without But they got more out of it. It
looks like on the surface, they got more a target,
got more out of that photo.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Than the people did. They haven't changed anything, they haven't
met any demands.

Speaker 6 (41:56):
There was a reason why I did not go and
have breakfast with my opponent after the race, despite an invitation,
because I knew, based off the race that we ran,
that we had diametrically opposed views and positions.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
About the direction of the state.

Speaker 6 (42:09):
What I'm not going to do is heal over or
bridge over anyone who is in support of me by
imaging myself next to you as if I'm and.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Or that it's okay.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
I think that was the right decision to me.

Speaker 9 (42:21):
Let me just ask this, though, why do we expect
their people who use as a tactic the bully pulpit
or a bullhorn. Our friend and brother, Ben Crump is
that way. He tries cases first in the court of
public opinion. So just like all of us, our flat

(42:47):
side is also our gift. So I'm just it's I
think the thing that I'm wrestling with too and trying
to give grace for in this moment is like the
thing that we normally families call Reverend ol into their
communities to help lift up when their kids have been
kid no doubt about it.

Speaker 8 (43:07):
So when there's an.

Speaker 9 (43:08):
Issue with our community and a company calls him to
do the thing, I'm trying to forget why we would
expect that he would do something different.

Speaker 6 (43:19):
I think I think people largely feel that his fidelity
is fealty is always going to be us first. I mean,
I think that's what folks believe, and really to avoid
the trappings of sort of.

Speaker 4 (43:31):
Going down by the rat hole around any one individual,
just just a little to make sure that we're talking
about styles of going about doing exactly tacticles of going
about doing things.

Speaker 6 (43:47):
And you know there are going to be tactics, and
sometimes they're just tools that we're picking up.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
Along the way and are utilizing. But there are no giveaways.

Speaker 6 (43:58):
And movement and and organizing everything must be hard. For one,
the corporation moves as if they are not moving at all.
They move, you know, as the hermits in the space.
They're not They aren't making dramatic steps because they don't
want you to believe or that it is possible for
your dramatic demands to ever be met, So they move

(44:18):
slow and that these are difficult and hard thing. This
is hard, and so we've got to decouple this that
in the third and they use these words, this language
that is intended to turn the rest of the public off,
like this is not is above my pay grade.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
I need to step out of the conversation when.

Speaker 6 (44:33):
The reality is no, it's as plain as they as
you know it to be. Yeah, and have workers who
deserve to be played a ways that they can live on,
pay their bills and maybe take a vacation every once
in a while, And you are single handedly stopping that
from happening because you're worried or more concerned about a
stock price and a stock split for your shareholders than
you are about the customers who are powering you.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Well, this is my challenge though, with what the scenario
you laid out. I've spent a very brief amount of time.
It's like a fish out of water on the funding
side of things, and there is often the ROI for
these meetings is very small, and so I think there
is danger both the people and sometimes the organization. You know,

(45:20):
I was on behalf of a labor organization, so I'm
dealing with like teachers hate their income. So sometimes the
ROI wasn't big enough. But I would say there is
a danger in a company like Target feeling like we're
in trouble with the black community. Let us call Reverend sh.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
They call him because he has evidence that I'm not.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Saying that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
I'm going off the example that you gave specifically said
everyone right, but you said a corporation will call, So
I'm not saying that's what To be clear, I'm not
saying that is what happened in specific. Since with Rev
I'm saying there is a challenge. When a company feels
like I got a problem with black folks, let me
call Reverend Sharpton.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
I think because.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
I have a challenge with that too. I'm let me
tell you why.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
Experience of moving people, you can move people.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Can I tell you why though I have a problem?

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Please?

Speaker 1 (46:12):
My challenge is the people are not always with Rev.
The people were not always with Rev.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
And Jackson.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
They're not always with Reverend Sharpton. I've never been somewhere
with a bunch of black folks and they're like, oh
it at six o'clock, y'all, we gotta get oar nub
ACP meeting. I think these things can be regional in Jackson, Mississippi.
The NAACP has a huge presence in Miami, in in Washington,
d C.

Speaker 5 (46:39):
They do not.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
In Cleveland, Ohio, they do not. In Los Angeles they
do not. They do know in l ale As.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
So when I talk to folks who are impacted by
the fires recently, well so maybe I should say alsda.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
But even black folks in LA but these are they
could be different people.

Speaker 8 (47:01):
Last was on the ground regularly during the fire.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
There was no connection with people. You know these folks too.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
But also the people I talked to in LA are
also more on the entertainment side, so it could be
a disconnect there, precisely.

Speaker 8 (47:19):
Wood Bureau, So that's Hollywood rights.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
That's my point.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Sometimes the people who are you know, they're not they're
not a part of an organization. You know, they're not
divine nine. They don't summer on the vineyard like. They
don't feel a connection to these organizations all the time.
And so when corporations feel like I'm gonna pluck this
one negro from the brunt from the bunch and get
a picture with him, give some money to his or

(47:47):
her organization, check the box, and then I'm done, problem solved.
And I can see the disconnect between the rank and
file people of society who feel like, well, what happened.
I've been going out of my way to shop at
these mom and pops, driving all over town, and then
this one thing happened, and I'm supposed to be all
good with it. There is a disconnected. So I also

(48:09):
think that sometimes corporations and organizations will tap black people
who make them comfortable when really.

Speaker 5 (48:20):
But it is this way, go this way, and because okay, he.

Speaker 8 (48:27):
Does that every week, germs.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Anyway, My point is I didn't forgot my dang point.

Speaker 5 (48:39):
But you were saying, what time is it?

Speaker 3 (48:47):
We gotta go with some danger and.

Speaker 5 (48:49):
Feeling like one we had time.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
It's some danger in it's some danger in in in
having one person. And then and when you find the
black person that makes you comfortable, sometimes you need to
find a black person that makes you uncomfortable.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
If you're the business, and this is my point, and.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
These businesses are not ever really going to fund or
create something that is in our favor. They are not
going to fund something that services are liberation.

Speaker 5 (49:20):
They would be.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Funding their demise. They would be funding their demise either
way if it wasn't it. I mean, you look at
George Floyd, like all those businesses, it was billions of dollars.
Around ninety million went to actual justice organizations. The bulk
of that money went to up right. But even the
money that was right, it was like JP Morgan, Chase

(49:44):
gave a lot of JP Morgan gave a lot of money,
and they most of it went to things that would
service their company, that would profit them.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
So even when you when you look into the money.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
That did exchange hands, it did not service the people
so I fully understand when the people out there look
at that pig cure or look at any of this
and they see this person who especially if you we
remember Rev from in them tracksuits, honey and going uptown
downtown ready to get buck like we remember that Rev.

(50:14):
They may only know suited and booted Rev with a
show on MSNBC. Rev who got invited to the Obama
White House?

Speaker 8 (50:20):
Rev?

Speaker 3 (50:21):
But Rev used to be about about it.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
I think he is about it. I think there's the
reason why he is in the room. One the ability
to mobilize.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
But two, there are certain he does have the ability
to mobile.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
Many times in my own city.

Speaker 8 (50:36):
Yeah, he's.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
We've been separate from him all around the country.

Speaker 6 (50:42):
There's a reason he gets called in to eulogize nearly
every high profile murdered death and people there are a.

Speaker 9 (50:49):
Lot of people in our community that think that think
that he just swoops in those families call him.

Speaker 8 (50:57):
So I know.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
Nobody if you.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
When it comes to like shootings and death and all.

Speaker 6 (51:02):
That, But that creates and it creates an energy and
it suggests to people that that's a guy who we
could go to if our problems.

Speaker 4 (51:11):
Black people, there's a list of five we could talk
to and this is what they can do.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Also tapped into REV to talk about black maternal mortality
and it's like the.

Speaker 6 (51:23):
Life and so you know what it means to fight
against that that strain of journalism that says there's only
one who can talk about this, that will do it
and be received by the people on.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
The outer end. What REV does, and not just REV,
but when our leaders show up again in these images
and and and how they.

Speaker 6 (51:41):
Navigate the world when we're in protests, creates a permission
structure for a group of people to do likewise, So
the image of a REV then makes it okay if
Ken Chinault and following.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Him former CEO of American Express, right.

Speaker 6 (51:59):
I'm sorry, yes, or Kathy Hughes or Tyler Perry, you know,
should they choose to then say, you know that the
reason why you saw me and that TMZ clip going
coming out of target is because I thought the whole
thing was all resolved. I mean, went in met with
them such and such and such. That's the shorthand that's

(52:21):
without ever explaining anything. The reason why power has.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
To be coveted the way that it does.

Speaker 6 (52:27):
What we do have when we're talking about our negotiating
strength at the table, the reason why why a picture
can't go out unless there is a higher demand that
has been met that we might not be privy to.
But you need to bring us to speed right now
because this looks like a betrayal.

Speaker 9 (52:43):
I get some disconnect there, And so the challenge is like,
there are people I think especially are like some of
our elders, that see that and think that that's a
good that was a good negotiating tactic.

Speaker 8 (52:57):
There are others that think, in regardless of age, that think, now,
why did he do that? He just want to be
in the front.

Speaker 6 (53:02):
And then there are others who haven't interrogated one way
or another. But because it's Rev, he must be up
there for us whatever it is he and guess what
is his life's work that has gotten him the benefit.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
I'm going to say, and I welcome the pushback. I'm
going to say, there may be even disconnect with you
all and some of the people because I'm talking to
like regular ass people in LA who do not feel
connected to the NUA A c P.

Speaker 6 (53:30):
But when have we the masses, We've never felt connected,
So then maybe so we need them.

Speaker 8 (53:35):
So then say it again, but who is leading?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
But so there is not if it's a leaderless movement,
I'm saying there are community validators, don't some of these
inner cities, like some of the hoods that are not
you know, student great, So those people are leaders to them.

Speaker 9 (53:50):
Sure, But I think that the danger that we have
right now is saying that we're a leaderless movement. I
don't think that's true. I think that we we I
think that there are pockets of us who have varying
leaders there that's true.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
I mean there's no singular leader.

Speaker 8 (54:06):
I agreed.

Speaker 9 (54:07):
Of course, there are black people who see nineteen Keys
is their guy. There are black people w see Earn
Your Leisure their guy. Killer Mike is their guy. Joy
is their gal? You is there like what to Mika
Mallory Beyonce calls out in a song. So there are
a bunch of different people that we can go to
for different things. In Double A CP chapters, especially Derek like,

(54:28):
there are folks, there are members of Congress who people
are like, I don't know who that is, but Max
saying they won't even call her congresswoman because.

Speaker 8 (54:34):
She's different to them. So I just think that the country,
but the but the But the thing that I'm just
raising is me.

Speaker 9 (54:45):
I'm not saying that, uh that the n double A
or the Urban League or nan or National Bar Association
or whatever else is making major strides with every aspect
of our community. I I'm saying they have their pockets,
and in some of those pockets, they have strongholds, and
I think it would be ignorant of us to say

(55:06):
that that doesn't exist.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Now.

Speaker 9 (55:08):
The thing that I can say, again another shameless plug
for the power Tour, is almost all of these organizations.
We don't have nan ON, but almost all of these
organizations have come together to say in individuals, we have
to come together now because if we don't start both
the folks who don't subscribe to organizational leadership, those individuals

(55:30):
or this pocket that focus on civics or Black Voters
Matter or whatever, we all got to come together because
right now we're all a target, regardless of who we
think is.

Speaker 8 (55:39):
That is the point.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Remember the guy in Atlanta who stood up. I felt
like he was a great example. And let me just
be clear, because I think Angely make a good point
and a solid correction. It is incorrect to say we
are a leaderless movement or that we are leaderless right
now there. It's just that it's not a singular leader
and there are multiple people in positions of leadership who
have come together for this work. I also don't I

(56:02):
want to push back a little on this whole idea
that everybody's resting. You know, there's a lot of where Yeah,
it's a lot of happening.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
And Angela lost.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Her voice because she's she is not resting, even as
discouraged as I am.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
I'm not resting.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
I got a huge time deficit, right exactly. So if
you hear somebody say that, they probably just not really
connected with the people or the movement. And I want
y'all to feel incouraged about that. But I think to
your point about you know, it's pockets of leadership. The
guy in Atlanta, we did our live show there and
he stood up and he was like, I got Mawaiians

(56:38):
doing this. He seemed like somebody who was a bit
disconnected from these like big organizations, but he said, I
love Ataja Brown like a fat kid love cake. And
I think Latasha is a good example of she's not
She is aware and does work, but she's also very
connected with those grassroots people who you know might not
have even her organization.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Black Voters matter.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
They're not coming in there saying we need a twenty
page ro O I filled out and lawyers to look like,
tell about your program and we're gonna get you some
money to help fund it. And I think she has
a good connection with those folks. And on the State
of the People Tour, which kicks off Sunday in Atlanta,
Saturday in Atlanta, like I said, Saturday, April twenty sixth,
in Atlanta, Angela will be there, Joy Joy will be there,

(57:24):
Tamika will be there to make a Valori will be there.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Joy read to me, it's going to be a folks
arian all the people.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
It's gonna be a lot of people there at these
different stops, and they can go to the State of
the People Tour die date.

Speaker 9 (57:38):
Of Date of the People just google State of the
p p L though the main State of the p
PL dot in the written notes.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Yes, yeah, but I do feel like this tour is
pulling in all the people. And you have said like
you believe in organizing. By addition, so all the people
who you may agree with me disagree with me. You
may agree with Angela Andrew. No matter how you feel,
all of these people are at the same table right now,

(58:12):
almost almost, yes, almost almost.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
Bringing their talents, bringing their talents.

Speaker 8 (58:18):
And their resources, their time, talent and treasure.

Speaker 5 (58:22):
It's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 8 (58:23):
It's a hard thing, yeah, but it's good.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
But even we I think we probably all have different
approaches and different understanding. You lived in la and you're like, no,
NAACP is a huge presence. I'm only talking to other
people who live there who didn't feel the presence I
would have said in Florida. I don't know how big,
but you're saying no. Here they are, you know, have
a big presence.

Speaker 11 (58:43):
So what I say about a lot of those legacy
groups is, if we had to if we had to
do a popularity like name recognition across the board, these
are folks who would.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
Have brand name I D within our community, and they're
almost all ways always.

Speaker 6 (59:01):
The default place people want to go when they don't
feel like they're getting what they need from the right,
if they're being you know, wrecked over, you know, ord
not seen, can't get a complaint call returned the first
I mean, it's it's clockwork, because it's it's muscle memory
folks are like, well, what is na a CP doing.

(59:22):
That's when I hear the most criticism about and the
most praise, as in somebody's moment of personal crisis, because
it's it's it is the nine to one one.

Speaker 4 (59:30):
Yeah, and so for a lot of people, whether there it's.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Regional or even when it's not a crisis. And Jackson,
na a c P is a.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
Historic reason. Yeah, to be be loud and proud. You know,
in the country they have legacy.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
And hold our history in the young man he kind
of came for them last with you don't remember that.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
He was like, we say NAACP. Like he was basically
saying that young people don't feel connected to them one
because of the name they have young. But no one's
saying it's no young people.

Speaker 5 (01:00:04):
And a lot of young people.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
It's relative when you consider all the young people. If
it's a thousand young people in there, that's that's a
very small amount.

Speaker 6 (01:00:12):
The markers shouldn't be that versus how we show up
in other spaces as well.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
Agree, So by.

Speaker 6 (01:00:17):
Percentage we've you know, they're they're punching outside their weight.
There's no doubt about it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
Their legacy has afforded them the ability to bump to
box up basically.

Speaker 6 (01:00:28):
I mean they take on administration, they take on presidents,
they take on you know, courts, they.

Speaker 4 (01:00:33):
Take on systems.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
And there's a difference I think in between NAACP and
na a c P OLDF, like the way the stuff
that the LDF is doing their very outfront and NAACP
is out front.

Speaker 6 (01:00:43):
Ona ACP pieces where the people at the lawyers are.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
And by the way, this is not an economy we
need too.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
I think that's what point where we need all hands
on decks. And don't be honest about my own disconnectre
I feel disconnected. You talked about some of like who
are leaders or something people when you said nineteen Keys,
I have never heard of nineteen Keys in my life
until about two weeks ago it was some controversy around him.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
So I feel.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Incredibly disconnected from some of the more pop culture leaders,
from some of these like Instagram philosophizers. You know, it's
like I don't really know who they are. I have
never and I still have nineteen Keys walking here right now.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
I wouldn't know it was him in.

Speaker 6 (01:01:20):
Nineteen Keys probably has thousands, hundreds of thousands, tens of
thousands of followers.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Maybe, oh he's like a celebrity. I suppose.

Speaker 9 (01:01:28):
I can't tell you what it's like, mostly black empowerment
on our economics.

Speaker 6 (01:01:34):
If there are millions of us out there that are
willing to dial in because somebody's talking about our future
economic health as a community and that moves them, I say,
there are credit to what we all be doing right now.

Speaker 8 (01:01:47):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
So again, I don't know a lot of these folks.
I mean, you got to explain most SETI set anyway.

Speaker 8 (01:01:54):
I just I literally decided to dive in. Yeah, because
for me, I want to know, like, it does.

Speaker 9 (01:02:02):
Not behoove me in service to our people to think
that my way is the only way. It's just it's ridiculous.
I want to be able to reach the people you
reach and hear what you're saying to reach them, and
I want to figure out how we can work in
tandem to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Let me, we're gonna We're gonna rap soon. But I
have a question for you, because I think this this
gets into when there's real disagreement. So what are somebody
here as you say that, and they say, but Angela
Byron Donalds, for example, he.

Speaker 8 (01:02:33):
Has a white district, A white.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Okay, somebody who is a supporter of Byron Donalds and MAGA,
and they're saying, but you're saying, you don't have an ego,
And I think there is the right way.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
I think MAGA is doing some things, and I think
this is I think there is strategy there in getting
behind MAGA and being on the inside and trying to
help our people becoming a part of this I call
it a cult.

Speaker 8 (01:02:58):
How would you feel sure?

Speaker 9 (01:03:00):
Maybe there's a strategy and he can keep that strategy
the hell away from me, because he going to strategize
us right into the belly of a slave ship. So
if they want to follow that, they are welcome. He
is not welcome anywhere where I am. I'm happy to
have a conversation, and I would have.

Speaker 8 (01:03:14):
I would have. I mean, he's an elected office.

Speaker 9 (01:03:16):
He's running for governor, you know, like I'm happy to
have the conversation, but I want to have a conversation
rooted in facts, and if he can't do that.

Speaker 8 (01:03:25):
I don't want to talk.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
A big difference to me is that.

Speaker 9 (01:03:31):
I wanted to have Tims caught on because there's this
peace out about did Tim Scott squander his minority business
agenda attaching to Mega.

Speaker 8 (01:03:42):
That's a conversation I want to have because right historically at.

Speaker 9 (01:03:47):
Least there were some pieces around his economic agenda that
I think we could agree on, same thing, probably with
Byron Donald's. But like, what tell me what happens when
you don't think about your Jamaican grandparents as all this
stuff is going down, right, Like, I just have some
fundamental questions.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Sott will never come on this show, but Senator Scott,
we would love.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
To have you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
You're welcome home here. We'd love to hear from you,
Senator Scott.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
Anyway, I just wanted to ask that because sometimes the
tactics and strategies are so far over here that I
can't get with it, and I wanted to be transparent
about my own disconnect and just things I don't know,
you know, like the people I talk to don't represent everybody,
But I just know some people who don't feel.

Speaker 6 (01:04:25):
What they may but when they hear you, they may
feel themselves heard, seen and represented.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:04:32):
I mean, I think it is important to be curious
about what we don't know and what we haven't experience,
and from the way I exercise it is by trying
to take away the value judgment on whatever it is
and just deal with the thing I do or don't know,
or want to find out and want to know better,
because it stops a lot of us from engaging in

(01:04:53):
certain ideas and accepting certain truths when we can't get
past the we have of of the source by which
is coming through and if that becomes the order of
the day, and it has already in so many pockets
of our society, that what I think about you is
what you are, What I think about the work you

(01:05:14):
do is exactly what it is. And there's an absence
of any curiousity around. Like I thought y'all were burning
babies in there.

Speaker 5 (01:05:22):
I read you know.

Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
It's like we're turning people off right there.

Speaker 6 (01:05:26):
And I would just dare people to choose to be
more curious and less judging about what's.

Speaker 8 (01:05:31):
Different we have we have.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
I just yes, I just forgot what we're doing here. Yes,
I was about to say something and my thought was interrupted.
One can our producer off camera go get our guests.
I would like to invite the guests on please thank
you anyway?

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Can I surprise the audience y'all? I heard you say
you could have just been quiet and let the audience.

Speaker 9 (01:05:59):
If you offer a random guest on, it's going to
be a dog.

Speaker 8 (01:06:03):
Let me bet that dog.

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
I want to put that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Joining us. Okay, so don't go anywhere. We'll be right
back with our guests and c t a s.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Oh my goodness, we have watched.

Speaker 8 (01:06:30):
Watch God.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
This is our sweet little little bit dog.

Speaker 8 (01:06:36):
Let me bet that down. Why is why is the
dog shaking diff.

Speaker 9 (01:06:40):
Because he was just she was just carried in here,
he said, about to look at the earlier, but she didn't.

Speaker 8 (01:06:48):
Okay, she looked.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Camera in the sweet little baby, sweet little baby, she's
so spoiled.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
If you're not constantly petting her, she's petting you anyway.
My c is because I love to be kind of animals.
They are furry friends. And look at I like pitbulls,
y'all know they're it is like just just a needy dog.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
She literally.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
I want to pit bull. You're my baby's but she's
so cute.

Speaker 8 (01:07:30):
I just want to her to exposed tips breastfeed.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
Give me your takeaway, what's your all to action?

Speaker 8 (01:07:41):
I'm just astonished. Did y'all hear TIFF's doggy voice?

Speaker 6 (01:07:45):
Do it?

Speaker 8 (01:07:47):
That is nuts. Anyway, my call to action.

Speaker 4 (01:07:51):
Is there's gonna be people. Baby. If you're in the
A t L, don't talk about it, be about it.

Speaker 9 (01:07:59):
We're saying we and saying we're doing ten cities, but
it's technically twelve because we split up rally Durham and
Birmingham and Montgomery.

Speaker 8 (01:08:07):
Is that eleven or twelve? Anyway? We are.

Speaker 9 (01:08:12):
Going to be starting in Atlanta with community service. We
are helping to pack boxes for seniors and kids on
Saturday morning at nine. We will also be.

Speaker 8 (01:08:24):
Giving books with those boxes, some banded books, gonna pat
that doll book and so. But we want you to register.

Speaker 9 (01:08:35):
We want you to register right away at stateofthepp L
dot com. From there we go to we have a
rally Sunday, and then we go to Durham and then
to Raleigh.

Speaker 8 (01:08:46):
We're gonna rally and Raleigh Leigh.

Speaker 9 (01:08:49):
I'm just fascinated by this dog situation.

Speaker 8 (01:08:52):
I want to pay that gypoil.

Speaker 6 (01:08:55):
Tell us how many election days when you get a rest,
hopefully soon.

Speaker 8 (01:09:03):
I'm gonna tell you guys, honestly, I think she.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
Don't like you.

Speaker 8 (01:09:16):
She wants pets from everybody. My hands is up.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
It's okay if people can see you. This is her dad,
you guys, he's gonna he's gonna get her.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Look, she's like, I'm getting pets anyway. Sorry, you guys
who are who don't have the privilege of seeing this
beautiful dog if you're just listening. But she's so cute,
she's sweet. She's not a schizophrenic, you know. Yeah, she's
so spoiled. You can tell she's spoiled because she needs
pets all the time. But that's that's Angela's call the action. Yeah,

(01:09:51):
we did ours, Angela.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
Who else can you tell them? How many days andrew.

Speaker 8 (01:09:58):
We have?

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
We don't have midterms, is the question.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
We will.

Speaker 8 (01:10:05):
Five and fifty eight days until the midterm election.

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
That's when they come.

Speaker 8 (01:10:08):
Welcome home, y'all, Welcome home everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Thank you for joining the natives. Attention to what the
info and all of the latest rock gulum and cross
connected to the statements.

Speaker 4 (01:10:19):
That you leave on our socihos.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Thank you sincerely for the patients reason for your choice
is clear. So grateful too to execute roads. Thank you
for serve, defend and protect the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Even in case.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
We'll welcome home to all of the natives. Wait, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Native Land pod is the production of iHeart Radio in
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Hosts And Creators

Tiffany Cross

Andrew Gillum

Angela Rye

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Target Autopsy–Who Gets to Speak for the People?