October 24, 2025 • 24 mins
The Perfect Neighbor debuted this month as the #1 film on Netflix, bringing attention to Stand Your Ground laws through the story of Ajike “AJ” Owens. AJ was killed in 2023 by her neighbor Susan Lorincz, a woman known throughout the neighborhood as “The Karen." This documentary, told through police bodycam footage of the confrontations leading up to the horrific murder, is part of a movement for social change.
On this MiniPod, our hosts Angela Rye, Tiffany Cross, and Andrew Gillum speak with the mother of Ajike Owens, Pamela Dias, and executive producer of the film, Takema Robinson. In honor of Ajike’s legacy, these two co-founded the Standing In The Gap Fund with a vision to transform grief into action and seek justice for those impacted by racial violence.
Florida’s first-in-the-nation Stand Your Ground law played a key role in Ajike’s murder. Her killer researched the law BEFORE shooting Ajike and using it as her legal defense. Ajike, Takema, and SO many others are seeking to overturn the law that’s disproportionately used to justify murdering members of the Black community.
If you’d like to submit a question, check out our tutorial video: www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/
Welcome home y’all!
—---------
We want to hear from you! Send us a video @nativelandpod and we may feature you on the podcast.
Watch full episodes of Native Land Pod here on YouTube.
Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.
Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:
Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; LoLo Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
Theme music created by Daniel Laurent.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reizent Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Home, everyone to this edition of Native Land Pod. And
we have a really great striking conversation to have today.
If like the rest of America, you have seen the
number one movie on Netflix, The Perfect Neighbor, you know
it is quite a striking, striking documentary, and I feel
like striking doesn't really do it justice about the heinous
(00:31):
murder of A gk aj Owens. The world should know
her name at this point. It was such a moving documentary,
a moving film. And we of course are joined by
Miss Pamela Dias. She is the mother of aj and
she's joining us with Takima Robinson, who mobilized activists and
(00:51):
worked really hard to bring this really important film to
the forefront. So thank you, ladies so much for joining us.
We are honored. And Miss Dias, I cannot get too
far in this conversation without saying I am so incredibly
sorry for your loss. It was enraging to see the
sequence of events that led to this moment. So just
in awe of your strength to even join us for
(01:13):
this conversation today, so welcome home to you both.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Well, thank you so much for that.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Andrew is actually a fellow Floridian, so I would be
remissed if I did not let him kick off this
conversation with you. Guys.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I want to thank you both for joining us and
obviously really regret the occasion that we find ourselves having
this conversation, Miss Diaz, to you first, if for those
who may not have yet gotten around to the documentary,
help us how you came to the conclusion that you
(01:51):
wanted this important story told. Almost I likened it this
morning with my colleagues to made me tell moment of
her you know, having to make the difficult decision around
an open casket for her son so that the world
could see what the South had done. I imagine, although
(02:14):
I have no first hand experience myself, that you probably
entered a similar set of questions about is this the
right thing to do? Is this? Is this going to
achieve the results that we want? How do we guide
it the right way and make sure it's not misinterpreted?
You know, really frankly, taking on all of the offenses
(02:35):
of the tragedy that you were visited with from from
from the start, And I know that has to be
a hard thing, but if you wouldn't mind just enveloping
that for us and helping us, your supporting community on
this side, understand some of your own thinking what led
to it, and and sort of whether or not you
feel like you've you've stood in the right place and
(02:57):
making those decisions.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Sure, so I have to say first that I'm deeply
honored to be even my name, or my story or
my courage to be even referenced with MADEI till it
just warms my heart. And I still can't believe that
people see it in that manner, but grateful. So Geeta Ganbier,
(03:23):
she's the director of the film, And when she showed
me the unedited version, I watched it from a mother,
a grandmother grieving standpoint. I cried and I cried, and
then I was actually kind of ill. You know, I'm
(03:45):
watching my daughter lose her life in front of my
very own eyes. I'm watching the sequence of events that
led up to her losing her life, which was ridiculous
and senseless. And then I watched it a second time,
and then that's when it really resonated with me how
(04:06):
important this story was. To be told, and I had
several things I considered before I said, okay, let's share
it with the world. First and foremost, I thought about
my grandchildren. How would they feel about it, you know,
seeing their raw emotions and the fact that their mother
(04:27):
losing their life is displayed in the film. Then I
also consider it the community, the neighborhood where Ajaka resided.
You know, they too were deeply affected. This was a
very close knit community. They looked out for one another,
so they also shared pain and grief and sorrow. And
(04:48):
then even though a community, society at large, you know,
and one of the things that my daughter would say
is that the world was going to know her name,
and unfortunately it came to pass in this manner. So
I considered that. But ultimately I considered what impact and
(05:09):
what changes this film could do. I wanted to serve
as a blueprint to change hearts and minds of society,
to be the lens that people may not know what
people of color experience on a daily basis, because we
have racial epithets, we have biases, and standard ground law
(05:34):
is prominent in this film. So we need reform, We
need education, We need people to understand what happens when
guns are placed in the wrong hands, especially someone who
was a racist. So when I considered all of that,
I could not I could not just sit on this.
(05:55):
I had to share it.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
I am, I want to go to you takeema. Also,
I think one thing that's important about this particular case.
Of course, Susan Lawrence was charging convicted. She was convicted
of manslaughter. But one thing that's important is the history
of this neighbor Uh to aj they have had they
had a pattern of engagement or And I would argue
(06:20):
in some ways, just based on what you see, it
sounds like Susan Lawrence was harassing aj and her children.
And so I would love for you to get into
that a little bit, because on the other side of
a bullet that is marked for a black person, we
find ourselves constantly defending our personhood, our humanity, our innocence,
(06:40):
even when we're the person is no longer alive to
tell their story.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Absolutely, yeah, thank you so much for asking that. So
what's so interesting about this film is that the footage,
which we received through a four year request in the
couple of weeks after Ajan's taken from us, the footage
goes back to twenty twenty one. So AJ is taken
(07:05):
in June of twenty twenty three. The footage goes back
two years. There were multiple calls, and what is so
interesting is no one else called the police but Susan, right,
So it was clear this was this pattern of her
clearly harassing and terrorizing this community, but then also trying
to weaponize her whiteness in the police against this community.
(07:29):
What stuns me is that two years, in numerous calls
you'll see this in the film, the police will even
recognize her and call her a psycho and say, yeah,
we know about this situation, that systemically no alarms ever
went off, that she was actually the danger in plain
sight to the rest of this community. It stuns me
(07:50):
when you see one of the opening scenes where you
see AJ herself interacting on one of these calls with
the police. You see how she postures herself because she
clear she might not be safe in this situation if
she says the wrong thing. And so I think, what
is just brilliant in this film is that all of
(08:11):
this is exposed. None of this is coming through interviews,
none of this is sort of biased by our opinion,
This is raw bodycam footage from the police, the system itself,
and I think so brilliantly put together that we can't
deny literally what happens. And so to your point, Angela,
I see systemic failure when I look at that, and
(08:35):
I think that she should have been flagged long before
this occurred.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
That so honestly came out. Want to stick with you
for a moment here, because that is what was so striking.
She was not just calling the police on AJ's kids.
She was calling the police on everybody's children in that neighborhood.
And not only that she had been violent towards these children.
She even had that violent episode where she was ramming
her truck into a fence single time. I kept looking,
(09:01):
and of course, what we all do with black folks
is had this been a black person doing any of this?
And in that opening scene where you see AJ, she
looks so exasperated dealing with these police officers. There's a
white man there who was a police officer. There is
a black woman there. The black woman saw her humanity.
The black woman kept talking to her, the black woman.
(09:21):
She was given that secret black woman language like yea girl,
I know, like I already know who she is. And
I just think it's why it's so important that we
take space in some of these careers to be there
for each other. So I don't know how when this
initially happened. I don't know how, but I ended up
in a group chat with you and others. Angela was
(09:45):
in this chat, and people were mobilizing immediately. You were
leading the charge in those moments where we're just all stilled.
How did this even come to be? Like, how did
this fall on your radar? And what was it that
made you say we need to rally around this specific issue.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Yeah, So for me, it starts with my sister. AJ
was my little sister's best friend, you know. So I
started here as a big sister. I spent most of
my career in social justice and moving money in philanthropy
towards social justice. Never did I think I be getting
that call from my sister about her best friend. So
it starts there. As I scrambled to activate folks like
(10:26):
Latasha Brown, like our good sister, Christy Henderson and others
who brought you all into the space. You know, Joy Reid,
who broke the news nationally because it wasn't even covered locally.
When this happened. It was like keep saying this the
underground railroad of black women who who really just rallied
behind us. So that is how it came. And then
(10:47):
in terms of connecting this to the film, the director
is also my sister in law and my brother is
one of the producers, and so like, this is like
literally made by our family who wrapped our arms around
on Pam and the children and have not let them
go and will not let them go. When Pam said
that she wanted to, you know, to share this with
(11:10):
the world. You know we are we are here to
fulfill her promise to her daughter. And that is how
this comes to be.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
You know, I go ahead, Andrew, just just to loop
in the public policy.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Part of this. It was referenced earlier in our conversation
standard ground law and standard ground which has now been
repeatedly weaponized in the state of Florida on behalf of
people who would frankly otherwise be guilty of almost uh.
(11:48):
It is used oftentimes a violent incident against violent incident,
much of which in the drug sales on our streets.
But the ways in which we see this and experience
this thing and really outsized and traumatic display which you
all make clear here in this film. I think it
(12:10):
just makes the horror of standard ground even worse because
right now in Florida, you can't flag for a person
for being a racist and therefore have them go through
the three day weight period and have their guns taken
from them and have those individuals be flagged. So you
can be an ovote racist. You can be and admitted
(12:31):
races by yourself and by all the people who are
around you, stimulated by the same stimuli that might irritate
a child pornographer, if you will, from the standpoint of
the inducements that you get and the rage that these
folks embody when confronted with the abject of their of
(12:51):
of of their of their anger. And so I'm just wondering,
from a public policy standpoint, how are we raising the
specter of our elected officials to see race and the
venomous of race being weaponized against a group of people
to also raise the flag. But this person cannot be
trusted with the power of gun, you know, of God
(13:14):
at their waistbelt. They cannot be trusted with responsibility of
having this in society When you can be so overcome
by your race towards a group of people because of
their race. To me, it it's as large of a
red flag as anybody with a mental incapacitation, Yet we
don't get to talk about it in those terms.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think that was interesting Iron And
I don't know if everyone knows, but the original standard
ground legislation was written by the legislator in Marion County, right,
And so we literally have a full circle moment. We
know Trayvon Martin happened right down the street from Okalla,
and so you know, as we do this work together
(13:59):
Pam and I, that is one of the things that
we are really trying to use the film to sort
of resurface that conversation about this law and about the
disparate impacts on our community. We have seen some legislative
change in some particular states which we are going to
be working with. There's been some changes in Georgia. There
(14:19):
looks like there's been some traction in Pennsylvania, in Minnesota.
We know that we might have a longer road to
go in Florida itself. But part of our reasoning behind
making the film and putting it out there was to
really lend this piece of art to that dialogue in
AJ's story to that dialogue. So we hope that it
(14:42):
brings about change. We hope that it hits people deep
enough in their heart that they're willing to re examine
this piece of policy that is disproportionately impacting our community.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Negative missus das we see in the film. Another moment
that it just two moments broke me and I was thinking, like,
how could you as her mother watching this? Two moments
(15:13):
broke me. There is one moment where you see little
boy on the porch and they ask are you okay?
And he says, I'm not physically hurt, but he says,
my heart is broken. It was the just the hardest moment.
It brought pain. The other moment that bought sheer rage
(15:37):
was in the interrogation room with her and the police
officers and she feigns ignorance to stand your ground. I
don't know, it's something something when somebody got shot a
while and they say, oh, so if we search our computers,
we won't find anything that you recently searched stand your
ground laws.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And at that.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Point she knows, oh, they're going to search my computers.
They say, oh, well, today I may have looked at
it on Facebook. I just want to know, when you
see that happen, would you call what has happened with her?
This murderer being convicted, would you call what has happened justice?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
None at all. Justice doesn't end with a conviction at all.
Twenty five years. It's like they put an expiration date
on her accountability, whereas my daughter's life is, she's gone forever.
Those two scenes that you reference Firsus my grandson saying
(16:45):
that he's not okay, but his heart is broken. That
breaks me every time. That's my one. Well, the film
itself is devastating, it's hurtful, but to see and hear
my grandson in that moment at that time, he was
twelve years old. Why should a little boy's heart be broken?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You know?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And that scene where she keeps saying no, no, no.
I counted and I lost track at about nineteen times
that she said no. And I can only imagine if
it was a person of color in that seat, and
(17:33):
for her it was the audacity. It was as if
she was bargaining, like she had a choice. You just
shot and killed, You have been convicted of manslaughter, and
you're telling the police no. That just shows her whiteness,
her entitlement, and they accommodated her, they coddled her. If
(17:57):
it had been a person of color, if they had
survived it, they would have been beaten, probably ended up
in the hospital. And the director always says that she
left that chair and that scene for a reason, like
to focus on that like she was. It's and then
(18:24):
also the letter, the apology that she wrote to the children,
she's still not taking accountability. I shot out of fear
when you knew the police was gone their way. But again,
that just shows racism, whiteness, whiteness, entitlement. And that's what
(18:45):
this film really does. It explores and examines all of that.
It shows America how privileged that we are not as
a color. We've been saying this and we know this,
but now they see it. It's just not another black
person or another black family saying it's racism. It's shown
(19:07):
to them. It's no one's opinion. You can't help but
walk away and see this film for what it is,
to see whiteness, to see what entitlement looks like.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Even her white neighbors, even her white neighbor, that woman,
they said you better not come outside when you saw
the white woman on across the street, like she knows
she better stay inside, don't come out. It gave me goosebumps.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I wonder, yes, just asking miss Diaz, you mentioned that
aj would say that the world would know her name
one day, and I think so often for those of
you who end up losing loved ones tragically at the
hands of police violence or vigilantes, which I definitely put
her in the category of a vigilante. What do you
(19:54):
want the world to know about your daughter that they
didn't get the chance to know on a broad scale.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Obviously, you know, we know that she was a single
mom of four. She was the sole provider, breadwinner for
her family. She was very present in their lives. She
made a lot of sacrifices, as most moms do. She
was present at football, being the football team mom, cheer mom.
(20:27):
She had her children, her daughter and gymnastics. Her kids
were honorable students. She was a woman of faith. She
taught her children respect of their elders. But she had dreams.
You know, she wanted better for her family. And that's
why I said that she would say the world would
know her name, Because we were oftentimes tried to come
(20:49):
up with different ideas, businesses or different ventures that she
could pursue to increase her economic situation. But you know
that was all taken from her. But I'm grateful that
out of this we were able to birth a I
(21:15):
would say, a purpose which to Kim and I co
founded the Standing in the Gap Fund, So it's not
only through the film, but also we have a vehicle,
a mechanism that honors her legacy and also can help
other families who may eventually be unfortunately impacted by such
(21:39):
hate violence. But it's not a film that I want
people to walk away with being sad and grieving and
devastation and tragedy. I want people to see the beauty
in that community and see what we can do collectively
to make real changes in this world if we come
(22:01):
together as one and let our voices be heard. And
I think the film and the fund is a voice
for Asuka, who's no longer to speak.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I just want to be clear because I heard her
name pronounced in the film A GK. I heard people
saying that, and you're saying Ajka. So I want to
be respectful and get the property.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I must always get it right.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yes, yes, so yeah, I wanted to correct myself because
in the film they were saying, so we should just
say a J and ajuka that is this.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So I will give you the background on a GK.
So she says that for two reasons. One is that
most people can't pronounce her name correctly the first try
at it, so she will say a GK. And then
also that was her being a little facetious with the
police officer, you know, because she's not agreeing with the situation.
So I'm not going to give it to you the
(22:57):
right way. I'm going to give it to you the
way you would say it.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I love our defiance. Our defiance comes in all forms,
even in that you don't even deserve to say my name,
but certainly the rest of the world deserves to know
her name. This entire documentary is comprised of police footage.
It is striking. I encourage everyone to check it out.
It reached number one on Netflix at its debut. It
(23:23):
still maintains in the top ten, might even be in
the top five. So please check out this very important film.
It is the Perfect Neighbor, available on Netflix now. It
is capturing a global audience. So not only will everyone
in this country know the name of Ajka, but people
all across the global as well. Tahima Robinson and missus
(23:46):
Pamela Dayas, thank you so so much for coming on
with us to talk about this very important film and
sharing a bit about your daughter's legacy. We thank you
and welcome blessure.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership
with Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reizent Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Home, everyone to this edition of Native Land Pod. And
we have a really great striking conversation to have today.
If like the rest of America, you have seen the
number one movie on Netflix, The Perfect Neighbor, you know
it is quite a striking, striking documentary, and I feel
like striking doesn't really do it justice about the heinous
(00:31):
murder of A gk aj Owens. The world should know
her name at this point. It was such a moving documentary,
a moving film. And we of course are joined by
Miss Pamela Dias. She is the mother of aj and
she's joining us with Takima Robinson, who mobilized activists and
(00:51):
worked really hard to bring this really important film to
the forefront. So thank you, ladies so much for joining us.
We are honored. And Miss Dias, I cannot get too
far in this conversation without saying I am so incredibly
sorry for your loss. It was enraging to see the
sequence of events that led to this moment. So just
in awe of your strength to even join us for
(01:13):
this conversation today, so welcome home to you both.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Well, thank you so much for that.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Andrew is actually a fellow Floridian, so I would be
remissed if I did not let him kick off this
conversation with you. Guys.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I want to thank you both for joining us and
obviously really regret the occasion that we find ourselves having
this conversation, Miss Diaz, to you first, if for those
who may not have yet gotten around to the documentary,
help us how you came to the conclusion that you
(01:51):
wanted this important story told. Almost I likened it this
morning with my colleagues to made me tell moment of
her you know, having to make the difficult decision around
an open casket for her son so that the world
could see what the South had done. I imagine, although
(02:14):
I have no first hand experience myself, that you probably
entered a similar set of questions about is this the
right thing to do? Is this? Is this going to
achieve the results that we want? How do we guide
it the right way and make sure it's not misinterpreted?
You know, really frankly, taking on all of the offenses
(02:35):
of the tragedy that you were visited with from from
from the start, And I know that has to be
a hard thing, but if you wouldn't mind just enveloping
that for us and helping us, your supporting community on
this side, understand some of your own thinking what led
to it, and and sort of whether or not you
feel like you've you've stood in the right place and
(02:57):
making those decisions.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Sure, so I have to say first that I'm deeply
honored to be even my name, or my story or
my courage to be even referenced with MADEI till it
just warms my heart. And I still can't believe that
people see it in that manner, but grateful. So Geeta Ganbier,
(03:23):
she's the director of the film, And when she showed
me the unedited version, I watched it from a mother,
a grandmother grieving standpoint. I cried and I cried, and
then I was actually kind of ill. You know, I'm
(03:45):
watching my daughter lose her life in front of my
very own eyes. I'm watching the sequence of events that
led up to her losing her life, which was ridiculous
and senseless. And then I watched it a second time,
and then that's when it really resonated with me how
(04:06):
important this story was. To be told, and I had
several things I considered before I said, okay, let's share
it with the world. First and foremost, I thought about
my grandchildren. How would they feel about it, you know,
seeing their raw emotions and the fact that their mother
(04:27):
losing their life is displayed in the film. Then I
also consider it the community, the neighborhood where Ajaka resided.
You know, they too were deeply affected. This was a
very close knit community. They looked out for one another,
so they also shared pain and grief and sorrow. And
(04:48):
then even though a community, society at large, you know,
and one of the things that my daughter would say
is that the world was going to know her name,
and unfortunately it came to pass in this manner. So
I considered that. But ultimately I considered what impact and
(05:09):
what changes this film could do. I wanted to serve
as a blueprint to change hearts and minds of society,
to be the lens that people may not know what
people of color experience on a daily basis, because we
have racial epithets, we have biases, and standard ground law
(05:34):
is prominent in this film. So we need reform, We
need education, We need people to understand what happens when
guns are placed in the wrong hands, especially someone who
was a racist. So when I considered all of that,
I could not I could not just sit on this.
(05:55):
I had to share it.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
I am, I want to go to you takeema. Also,
I think one thing that's important about this particular case.
Of course, Susan Lawrence was charging convicted. She was convicted
of manslaughter. But one thing that's important is the history
of this neighbor Uh to aj they have had they
had a pattern of engagement or And I would argue
(06:20):
in some ways, just based on what you see, it
sounds like Susan Lawrence was harassing aj and her children.
And so I would love for you to get into
that a little bit, because on the other side of
a bullet that is marked for a black person, we
find ourselves constantly defending our personhood, our humanity, our innocence,
(06:40):
even when we're the person is no longer alive to
tell their story.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Absolutely, yeah, thank you so much for asking that. So
what's so interesting about this film is that the footage,
which we received through a four year request in the
couple of weeks after Ajan's taken from us, the footage
goes back to twenty twenty one. So AJ is taken
(07:05):
in June of twenty twenty three. The footage goes back
two years. There were multiple calls, and what is so
interesting is no one else called the police but Susan, right,
So it was clear this was this pattern of her
clearly harassing and terrorizing this community, but then also trying
to weaponize her whiteness in the police against this community.
(07:29):
What stuns me is that two years, in numerous calls
you'll see this in the film, the police will even
recognize her and call her a psycho and say, yeah,
we know about this situation, that systemically no alarms ever
went off, that she was actually the danger in plain
sight to the rest of this community. It stuns me
(07:50):
when you see one of the opening scenes where you
see AJ herself interacting on one of these calls with
the police. You see how she postures herself because she
clear she might not be safe in this situation if
she says the wrong thing. And so I think, what
is just brilliant in this film is that all of
(08:11):
this is exposed. None of this is coming through interviews,
none of this is sort of biased by our opinion,
This is raw bodycam footage from the police, the system itself,
and I think so brilliantly put together that we can't
deny literally what happens. And so to your point, Angela,
I see systemic failure when I look at that, and
(08:35):
I think that she should have been flagged long before
this occurred.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
That so honestly came out. Want to stick with you
for a moment here, because that is what was so striking.
She was not just calling the police on AJ's kids.
She was calling the police on everybody's children in that neighborhood.
And not only that she had been violent towards these children.
She even had that violent episode where she was ramming
her truck into a fence single time. I kept looking,
(09:01):
and of course, what we all do with black folks
is had this been a black person doing any of this?
And in that opening scene where you see AJ, she
looks so exasperated dealing with these police officers. There's a
white man there who was a police officer. There is
a black woman there. The black woman saw her humanity.
The black woman kept talking to her, the black woman.
(09:21):
She was given that secret black woman language like yea girl,
I know, like I already know who she is. And
I just think it's why it's so important that we
take space in some of these careers to be there
for each other. So I don't know how when this
initially happened. I don't know how, but I ended up
in a group chat with you and others. Angela was
(09:45):
in this chat, and people were mobilizing immediately. You were
leading the charge in those moments where we're just all stilled.
How did this even come to be? Like, how did
this fall on your radar? And what was it that
made you say we need to rally around this specific issue.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Yeah, So for me, it starts with my sister. AJ
was my little sister's best friend, you know. So I
started here as a big sister. I spent most of
my career in social justice and moving money in philanthropy
towards social justice. Never did I think I be getting
that call from my sister about her best friend. So
it starts there. As I scrambled to activate folks like
(10:26):
Latasha Brown, like our good sister, Christy Henderson and others
who brought you all into the space. You know, Joy Reid,
who broke the news nationally because it wasn't even covered locally.
When this happened. It was like keep saying this the
underground railroad of black women who who really just rallied
behind us. So that is how it came. And then
(10:47):
in terms of connecting this to the film, the director
is also my sister in law and my brother is
one of the producers, and so like, this is like
literally made by our family who wrapped our arms around
on Pam and the children and have not let them
go and will not let them go. When Pam said
that she wanted to, you know, to share this with
(11:10):
the world. You know we are we are here to
fulfill her promise to her daughter. And that is how
this comes to be.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
You know, I go ahead, Andrew, just just to loop
in the public policy.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Part of this. It was referenced earlier in our conversation
standard ground law and standard ground which has now been
repeatedly weaponized in the state of Florida on behalf of
people who would frankly otherwise be guilty of almost uh.
(11:48):
It is used oftentimes a violent incident against violent incident,
much of which in the drug sales on our streets.
But the ways in which we see this and experience
this thing and really outsized and traumatic display which you
all make clear here in this film. I think it
(12:10):
just makes the horror of standard ground even worse because
right now in Florida, you can't flag for a person
for being a racist and therefore have them go through
the three day weight period and have their guns taken
from them and have those individuals be flagged. So you
can be an ovote racist. You can be and admitted
(12:31):
races by yourself and by all the people who are
around you, stimulated by the same stimuli that might irritate
a child pornographer, if you will, from the standpoint of
the inducements that you get and the rage that these
folks embody when confronted with the abject of their of
(12:51):
of of their of their anger. And so I'm just wondering,
from a public policy standpoint, how are we raising the
specter of our elected officials to see race and the
venomous of race being weaponized against a group of people
to also raise the flag. But this person cannot be
trusted with the power of gun, you know, of God
(13:14):
at their waistbelt. They cannot be trusted with responsibility of
having this in society When you can be so overcome
by your race towards a group of people because of
their race. To me, it it's as large of a
red flag as anybody with a mental incapacitation, Yet we
don't get to talk about it in those terms.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think that was interesting Iron And
I don't know if everyone knows, but the original standard
ground legislation was written by the legislator in Marion County, right,
And so we literally have a full circle moment. We
know Trayvon Martin happened right down the street from Okalla,
and so you know, as we do this work together
(13:59):
Pam and I, that is one of the things that
we are really trying to use the film to sort
of resurface that conversation about this law and about the
disparate impacts on our community. We have seen some legislative
change in some particular states which we are going to
be working with. There's been some changes in Georgia. There
(14:19):
looks like there's been some traction in Pennsylvania, in Minnesota.
We know that we might have a longer road to
go in Florida itself. But part of our reasoning behind
making the film and putting it out there was to
really lend this piece of art to that dialogue in
AJ's story to that dialogue. So we hope that it
(14:42):
brings about change. We hope that it hits people deep
enough in their heart that they're willing to re examine
this piece of policy that is disproportionately impacting our community.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Negative missus das we see in the film. Another moment
that it just two moments broke me and I was thinking, like,
how could you as her mother watching this? Two moments
(15:13):
broke me. There is one moment where you see little
boy on the porch and they ask are you okay?
And he says, I'm not physically hurt, but he says,
my heart is broken. It was the just the hardest moment.
It brought pain. The other moment that bought sheer rage
(15:37):
was in the interrogation room with her and the police
officers and she feigns ignorance to stand your ground. I
don't know, it's something something when somebody got shot a
while and they say, oh, so if we search our computers,
we won't find anything that you recently searched stand your
ground laws.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And at that.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Point she knows, oh, they're going to search my computers.
They say, oh, well, today I may have looked at
it on Facebook. I just want to know, when you
see that happen, would you call what has happened with her?
This murderer being convicted, would you call what has happened justice?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
None at all. Justice doesn't end with a conviction at all.
Twenty five years. It's like they put an expiration date
on her accountability, whereas my daughter's life is, she's gone forever.
Those two scenes that you reference Firsus my grandson saying
(16:45):
that he's not okay, but his heart is broken. That
breaks me every time. That's my one. Well, the film
itself is devastating, it's hurtful, but to see and hear
my grandson in that moment at that time, he was
twelve years old. Why should a little boy's heart be broken?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You know?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And that scene where she keeps saying no, no, no.
I counted and I lost track at about nineteen times
that she said no. And I can only imagine if
it was a person of color in that seat, and
(17:33):
for her it was the audacity. It was as if
she was bargaining, like she had a choice. You just
shot and killed, You have been convicted of manslaughter, and
you're telling the police no. That just shows her whiteness,
her entitlement, and they accommodated her, they coddled her. If
(17:57):
it had been a person of color, if they had
survived it, they would have been beaten, probably ended up
in the hospital. And the director always says that she
left that chair and that scene for a reason, like
to focus on that like she was. It's and then
(18:24):
also the letter, the apology that she wrote to the children,
she's still not taking accountability. I shot out of fear
when you knew the police was gone their way. But again,
that just shows racism, whiteness, whiteness, entitlement. And that's what
(18:45):
this film really does. It explores and examines all of that.
It shows America how privileged that we are not as
a color. We've been saying this and we know this,
but now they see it. It's just not another black
person or another black family saying it's racism. It's shown
(19:07):
to them. It's no one's opinion. You can't help but
walk away and see this film for what it is,
to see whiteness, to see what entitlement looks like.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Even her white neighbors, even her white neighbor, that woman,
they said you better not come outside when you saw
the white woman on across the street, like she knows
she better stay inside, don't come out. It gave me goosebumps.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I wonder, yes, just asking miss Diaz, you mentioned that
aj would say that the world would know her name
one day, and I think so often for those of
you who end up losing loved ones tragically at the
hands of police violence or vigilantes, which I definitely put
her in the category of a vigilante. What do you
(19:54):
want the world to know about your daughter that they
didn't get the chance to know on a broad scale.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Obviously, you know, we know that she was a single
mom of four. She was the sole provider, breadwinner for
her family. She was very present in their lives. She
made a lot of sacrifices, as most moms do. She
was present at football, being the football team mom, cheer mom.
(20:27):
She had her children, her daughter and gymnastics. Her kids
were honorable students. She was a woman of faith. She
taught her children respect of their elders. But she had dreams.
You know, she wanted better for her family. And that's
why I said that she would say the world would
know her name, Because we were oftentimes tried to come
(20:49):
up with different ideas, businesses or different ventures that she
could pursue to increase her economic situation. But you know
that was all taken from her. But I'm grateful that
out of this we were able to birth a I
(21:15):
would say, a purpose which to Kim and I co
founded the Standing in the Gap Fund, So it's not
only through the film, but also we have a vehicle,
a mechanism that honors her legacy and also can help
other families who may eventually be unfortunately impacted by such
(21:39):
hate violence. But it's not a film that I want
people to walk away with being sad and grieving and
devastation and tragedy. I want people to see the beauty
in that community and see what we can do collectively
to make real changes in this world if we come
(22:01):
together as one and let our voices be heard. And
I think the film and the fund is a voice
for Asuka, who's no longer to speak.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I just want to be clear because I heard her
name pronounced in the film A GK. I heard people
saying that, and you're saying Ajka. So I want to
be respectful and get the property.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I must always get it right.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yes, yes, so yeah, I wanted to correct myself because
in the film they were saying, so we should just
say a J and ajuka that is this.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So I will give you the background on a GK.
So she says that for two reasons. One is that
most people can't pronounce her name correctly the first try
at it, so she will say a GK. And then
also that was her being a little facetious with the
police officer, you know, because she's not agreeing with the situation.
So I'm not going to give it to you the
(22:57):
right way. I'm going to give it to you the
way you would say it.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I love our defiance. Our defiance comes in all forms,
even in that you don't even deserve to say my name,
but certainly the rest of the world deserves to know
her name. This entire documentary is comprised of police footage.
It is striking. I encourage everyone to check it out.
It reached number one on Netflix at its debut. It
(23:23):
still maintains in the top ten, might even be in
the top five. So please check out this very important film.
It is the Perfect Neighbor, available on Netflix now. It
is capturing a global audience. So not only will everyone
in this country know the name of Ajka, but people
all across the global as well. Tahima Robinson and missus
(23:46):
Pamela Dayas, thank you so so much for coming on
with us to talk about this very important film and
sharing a bit about your daughter's legacy. We thank you
and welcome blessure.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership
with Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.