June 27, 2025 • 26 mins
Our hosts catch up with former Baltimore D.A. and friend of the show, Marilyn Mosby. After leading the charge for police and criminal justice reform in her city, Marilyn was persecuted by the same system she served, and prosecuted on dubious charges. After a campaign spearheaded by Angela Rye, Marilyn’s avoided jail time, but she was still charged and now faces new challenges…
PLUS an insider perspective on Adnan Syed, the subject of the first season of the blockbuster podcast, Serial.
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Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Lamb Pod is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership
with Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome home, Everybody. This is Native Lamb Pod. I'm
Angela Raie. I'm with Andrew Gillim and Tiffany.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
You're gonna do what you're gonna do. Every week.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
This is our mini pod and we are so so
thrilled to have our sister, our friends joining us fresh
on the other side into liberation and freedom. Marylynd Moseby,
former Baltimore City States Attorney, a legend in her own right,
advocate for the people and also a local host committee member,
(00:45):
really our chair for the State of the People General
Assembly just last week, Maryland.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Welcome to the show again, Marylyn.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Thank you for having me. It's so good to see
everyone on the other side of liberation.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
Yes, yes, we glad that you liberating. You look really good, Marylynd.
I was looking at you, say up, you look gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you to me. You always do. I'm just telling
her she is channeling the Billy Holliday. I think her
coming to Baltimore.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Something I'm down and making, and it's so well outside
of making and one of those black towns I was
telling y'all about, and it's so hot down here, and
I had blown out my hair, and this morning I
watched it because it was so hot and human. And
now I'm looking at how gorgeous you and Angela look
and how Andrew always looks, and I'm like, I should
(01:34):
have kept myself together.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Listen, I didn't hear what neither one of y'all said.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
One of y'all going marl.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
No, I said, I love it.
Speaker 7 (01:45):
She looks beautiful, and I said, was ninety three degrees
at ten o'clock this morning, So yeaht.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Grateful for the humidity and no makeup though, So I
will say that feels I barely put lotion on my
face this morning.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
That yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say that. People don't want
to hear about.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Me, Well I want to if you can, Maryland, talk
about how you're feeling. You had to serve a sentence
for something you didn't do, which we've talked about at
nauseum on this show.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And even though just.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
True to form, the things are beeping to support what
we're saying, and we're so grateful Andrew for all of that. Backup,
But Marylyn I'd love to hear from you on how
you're feeling now.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So Angela, first and foremost, I'm just I feel so
much gratitude. I think, you know, God has been so
good to me and my girls. He has covered us
through the midst of this storm. And I say it
all the time and every sort of speech or any
sort of acknowledgment that I can. You know, unfortunately, a
lot of people in my life that I thought would
be there for me weren't. And that was also part
(02:59):
of the largest of divine plan. You know, before God elevates,
he separates in and exposed those the hearts of the
individuals that aren't really for you. But by the same token,
I feel so much gratitude because He did send Earth
angels into my life where you know, they were able
to pour into me and my girls in a way.
And I have to acknowledge that. I have to from
(03:21):
the bottom of my heart acknowledge and appreciate you. You know,
I got to say, Angela, I was drowning. You gave me,
You threw me a lifeline when I didn't even think
I could make it, Like you know, financially, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, reputationally.
(03:41):
They tried to break me on so many different levels
and make an example out of me for what I
stood for. I had absolutely nothing to do with anything
that I did wrong. You know, I withdrew my own
retirement savings that I put away every two weeks to
buy property that was the extent of what I was
accused of. And having to fight the federal government. You know,
(04:05):
it was really difficult. I lost everything. I lost my marriage,
I lost my career, I lost my house, I lost
my car. You know, it was my home. It was
a lot, and so many you know folks that I
thought again would be there weren't, but you were. And
I just want to please acknowledge this woman right here
who fights for the people so many different levels, and
(04:28):
she's seeing this black woman in need. And I just
got to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. Angela.
You have no idea. You use your platform to elevate
the circumstance. And it was thanks to you. We had
a national campaign and you know, organizations signed on Black
Win with black women, and you know, the Congressional Black
Caucus and sixty attorneys and Ben Crump, and you know,
(04:52):
it started with you.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Over one hundred thousand people.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
One hundred thousand people signed that petition. You know, Angela
had she delved into my case and if you would
have seen her her living room, she had no books,
and you know, she got down to the nitty gritty.
And I'm so incredibly grateful. So when you say how
do I feel in this moment, I feel so much gratitude.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I love to hear it. I just I want to
I do this all the time. It's important to me
to just acknowledge, Tiff and Andrew did not hesitate when
we talked about bringing this to this podcast and getting
a petition done. In all of that, and to our
professional development program students, all of the work they did
on graphics, on everything. But I really, you know, don't
(05:35):
want to necessarily take you back there. I think it's
so important to talk about the road ahead and in
that Andrew, you've seen this yourself. Marylyn is just getting
out of this and now facing another thing. So Marylynd,
if you could talk about kind of what you're up
against and how folks are coming at you now that
you you know, you feel like you're in the clear,
(05:56):
then cut the bracelet off. You're not being monitored no
longer a curfew and now that.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So, I mean, yeah, it's constant a battle, you know,
one of the things that they attempted to do while
I was you know, right now, we're still waiting for
the Fourth Circuit to make a decision on my appeal,
and we feel really great about the appeal. However, that
argument was in January. We're still waiting and it's still
looming and it can come any day. The government was
(06:21):
attempting to take my house and to take my law
license before the appeal was even exhausted, and the Supreme
Court in Maryland basically said that you cannot do that.
So it's been a constant struggle in a battle that
we won temporarily until this appeal is ultimately decided. But
as soon as you get you take one step forward,
(06:43):
it feels like you're being pulled three steps back.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
My predecessor, well not actually he's the person who has
come in after me. I would just say, I've in Bays,
who's the newly elected state attorney, has used this opportunity
to try to hurt me. He filed an attorney grievance
against me on one particular case. You know, despite the
(07:09):
thousands of cases that I oversaw that I didn't personally investigate.
Really a shucking and driving. You know, we got those
folks and tap dance and hold the water for the
status quo. And that's essentially what's being done. So I
have to now, on top of wait for the Court
of Appeals decision to be heard to determine whether I'm
(07:29):
going to keep my law license in my home. I
now have to fight an additional battle, which is to
defend myself in the ad non said case, which I
believe I was right in making that determination. He has
challenged my discretion and it has made an unprecedented move
to fil an attorney grievance against me and the attorney
(07:52):
who actually investigated the case. And so we are both,
you know, again battling again on the affront to try
to keep my law license in defense of that case.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Because you brought up the said case one your successor,
Ivan Bates. I'm curious why the focus and attention on you.
I imagine the good people of Baltimore would like their
tax dollars being used in resources on something certainly more pressing.
I've known you, Maryland for over ten years now, I
(08:23):
can assure the people of Baltimore you are not a fugitive,
You are not a threat to society. You have certainly
enhanced that city and your influence cast a wide shadow
across the nation. So I'm curious if you have any
thoughts on why he's so focused on you. Secondly, if
you would, just for the benefit of our audience, give
(08:44):
a little background on what the Sai case is and
what the issue is since you since you brought it up.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So anand Sayid was another one. I created the first
conviction integrity unit in the entire state of Maryland where
we did reinvestigations into claims of actual and I also
had a sentencing review unit where we modified and reduced
the sentences of juvenile lifers and the elderly prison population,
where we released more than sixty individuals by modifying their sentence.
(09:14):
I had an individual attorney that actually was a senior
attorney at the Public Defender's Office, Becky Feldman, who came
over and worked my sentencing review unit, and under her leadership,
she actually reviewed the ad Non Sayid case. This is
a case that dates very far back where he was
(09:36):
wrongly if we believe after a thorough investigation that he
was wrongly convicted of murder, and so we did our
due diligence. We investigated the case and ultimately made a
recommendation to vacate the conviction of ad Non said and rightfully,
so we would argue, as you are aware, prosecutors, we
(09:57):
exercised our discretion every single day, right, and thousands of cases,
and this particular case is a high profile case. It's
rather controversial. But when you are elected into these positions
and as a leader, you have to make a decision, right,
you stand on on the moral beliefs of what you're
(10:18):
doing is right. And that's what we did. I got
to say the mission of my office was justice over convictions. Unfortunately,
you know, I think that the newly elected state attorney
is playing politics just like Trump. Right. Unfortunately, he took
advantage of the of the fact that I had this
(10:38):
bogus investigation and looming criminal case hanging over me. He
had run against me before and lost, but this time around,
he won, and he ran on a platform of pretty
much reversing everything that I had done in my office,
progressive related and he did just that. So, now, when
you ask why would someone do something like that, well
(11:00):
he was, you know of the Fox forty five who
was a local sort of fox station put two hundred
thousand dollars into my race to support him, right, And
so why would he do that. He carries the weight
of the status quo. And so unfortunately the people of
Baltimore voted for this man, and just like Trump, they
(11:20):
voted against their own self interest. So you get what
you voted for. And so that's who he is. He's
showing to be who he's always been.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
That's all rings so familiar, Maryland. But I just first
got to say, you have breath in your body. Yes,
you are yes on the other side, and you and
I could talk one on one about the traumat the
trauma of all of it, and how you get revisited
by it, if not every moment of the day, every
(11:59):
other moment of the day, you feel some reminder. But
if I could just say, you and I both and
maybe more than us, will have to work very hard
to expel those voices that operate in our head that
cause us to be curious about everything we do, how
people feel about us, whether we're welcome to move in
(12:22):
certain spaces or not. You're on the other side of it.
But as you know, this trauma is certainly I hope
it isn't, but it feels like it might be a
lifetime wound that constantly has to be tended to in
some way, and that maybe over time what happens is
is that our our heart won't always feel like it's
(12:43):
carried outside our body on our sleeves, that it won't
impact us so severely as it did from the beginning
as time passes by. I'll also just say this that
the enemies who are again rising against you, and I
wholly accept your description of this, of this new prosecutor,
these folks, they don't The devil comes to kill and destroy, right,
(13:07):
he comes to kill and destroy, And in fact I
now begin to accept in that order.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
Right, they kill you, destroy you, kill you again, just
to make sure you're dead. Right. My grandmother said they.
Speaker 7 (13:18):
Gonna kill you dead. I thought, like, hell, you're already dead. No,
they're gonna kill you dead. So just be be aware
that Tiffany said I think a little earlier that you're
you know, you're not a threat, You're not this. I
just want to reassure you remain a threat so long
as you have breath in your body, and you are
the woman of character that I came to know many
years ago when you first got elected. You will continue
(13:40):
to be a threat by how do we say, getting
in good trouble, And I just want to admonish you,
friend that I think I'm speaking to myself too. We
have to not shrink from the gifts that God has
given us to continue to operate in good trouble. And
I think the beauty in that is that the same
(14:00):
people who were attracted to you when they elected you
for that fight, for that fierceness, those are gonna be
the same champions who come riding and dying for you
on this one. Lastly, the people who disappointed us by
not showing up, I just want to and part of
my process of releasing them was simply to say, everybody
(14:20):
doesn't operate at the same level of freedom.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
As we think.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
Everybody that we thought was courageous and courageous, everybody who
was running with us and acting like they were equals
and equal to our hustle, were actually just pretenders and
hangers on. And I think when we look at them
sympathetically as I'm sorry I thought you were of sterner things,
(14:50):
you're not let it go because you got too much
work to do. The haters, detractors, they're there for a
I acknowledge that. But you're here for a mission too,
and I believe yours this greater and more powerful, more impactful,
and just cheering and riding for.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
You because you deserve it. God got you here again
because you deserve it, not stand in it.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
And I just want to say, I mean, I think,
even looking to folks like yourself who were champions for
our people and for our communities, and for justice right
and for all people, and the way in which the
status quo came for you, you know I've learned from it.
And I say this all the time, what happened to me.
(15:37):
I don't have any sort of bitterness in my heart.
I have nothing but gratitude even for the haters right,
because I've been able to delve and into deep, deeply
within myself, and I'm a better person as a result
of the experience you. I always say that you learn lessons.
(15:57):
I learned lessons at rock bottom that peaks of mountaintops
will never teach you. It required me to hit rock bottom,
for me to lose everything, for me to open my
eyes and to get back to myself, and I would
love to take the credit for it, but I can't.
Like at the end of the day, I don't look
(16:17):
like what I've been through because I'm divinely protected, just
like you are divinely protected, just like Tip. It's divinely protected,
right like no matter what they try to do, as
you've already said, you know the gifts and the talents
that God has given us, the devil will try to
stop so that we don't understand and recognize our purpose
and our greater purpose. And so I'm grateful for it
(16:39):
all I've learned from all of you. I am so
grateful for your support, and I've learned right, I've grown,
so there's no reason for me to have any sort
of animosity. But what I will also know knowing myself
is that I will always speak truth to power, like
I'm always going to tell the truth. And so if
that ruffles fathers, then guess what so be it?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Marilyn.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Let me ask you. I'm writing about heartbreak right now,
and I'm writing about a conversation that you and I
had when you were going through all of this, and
I don't want to say it now because I want
people to re read it when it comes out. But
I just I remember walking away thinking, man at her
lowest point, she poured into me with a message that
(17:25):
was so profound. But what I don't think that our
that that society at large realizes, is when you're charged
with something like this. Andrew, certainly you know firsthand it
is not okay, you're found not guilty, or you have
one year probation. It lingers with you financially, it lingers
(17:49):
with you socially, and it was it kind of broke
my heart. Hurt my heart to hear you say that, Andrew,
that you have to think about am I welcome in
certain spaces and how people might regard you. Any space
Andrew ain't welcome. Let me just tell y'all that I'm
not welcome. I ain't going right, But get y'all want
to go. Yeah, any space Angelae and welcome, I'm not going.
(18:09):
So I mean we move as community.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
But I will add one thing though, Yeah, he's you
gotta go into those spaces, right like God has poured
into you and you are an example of his existence. Yeah,
so you going into those spaces and glowing and being
successful and just as articulate and intelligent showcasing your talent.
You gotta do that.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Sorry, that's okay.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
We're coming up on time. Nick, our producer is telling
us we gotta go, But I want to give you
a chance to answer this question. What are the implications
that you will carry long after this because I'm trying
to punctuate the point to our audience that these things
are life changing and it can also be life devastating.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
You have two girls, and so.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
We all celebrated, like yay, Maryland does not have to
go behind bars. But there are so many other things
to consider. Like you said, you lost both homes in Florida.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Correct, I lost.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I had to sell one for attorney's fees, and then
the one is pending this appeal. The government is trying
to take it.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Okay, well, we want you to keep that home because
you didn't do anything wrong. Is your home and America
lied to us. That was the American dream, the home ownership,
and you beat the odds, went to college, went to
grad school and did all that. And now they took
it because they played a long game. When you said
on those stairs and said our time is now against
(19:34):
the charges against the officers who were charging the murder
of Freddie Gray, and then financially you still have attorney fees.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
I would imagine that you're still paying.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, I mean there are a number of implications. I mean,
right now, I'm technically a felon, right like so a felon.
As a felon, we know in this country, if you're
not Donald Trump with thirty four felonies and you're running
for president, you are second class citizen, especially for black people.
You can no longer apply for a job, you can
no longer apply for housing, you can't go back to
school because you can't get any financial aid, and then
(20:06):
what other recourse do you have but to what often
happens in our communities, the individuals going back and doing
what they were doing in the first place. And so
that's the biggest sort of sort of implication as a
result of this conviction. I'm hopeful though I operate in
faith and not fear, and I know that God is
real and he's protected me all this time. That you know,
(20:28):
I'm hopeful that the conviction will be reversed. I think
the greater sort of implications for me have always been
my concern for my children, because my girls fourteen and
sixteen years old, and they have had to experience this
trauma with me. When I went through my anxiety, when
I went through the divorce, when we went through the
stress of you know, everything that was put upon me.
(20:51):
They saw my depression, right, They saw me crying at night,
they saw when I couldn't get out of bed, they
saw when you know, organizations were like, I need you
to resign. Right, black women organizations as a result of
this ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Can we call them out because I think that they
should be. The Links are.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
One of the organizations.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Yeah, Like, I don't understand. I don't want to be
affiliated with women who cannot stand with me in the storm.
And so if the reputator, if you are so into
the white gaze that you have to say, we can't
be affiliated with you anymore. Nothing about that says sisterhood
to me. So I don't know if the national organization
of the Links or people who represent the Links, how
(21:33):
you all feel about it. But please, if you have
some sort of justificate what we want to hear from you,
but give give us a video and tell us why
you thought it was appropriate and not standing with Marylyn
Moseby when over one hundred thousand people did so stood
with her that they signed a petition. But I believe
it's more than one hundred thousand people who are cheering
for you, Maryland. So that's very disappointing. So I know
how you feel.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That's no, and I appreciate that, TIF and I appreciate
the question. But it was in that moment that my daughter,
I had it on the speakerphone in my ought have
heard them say we need your resignation and started crying
right like. So those are the implications that are, like
I guess, long term effects. So we put our girls
in therapy. God has been so good to them. He's
(22:13):
covered them. They are amazing. You know, we just dropped
off nilin after the State of the People. We had
a phenomenal State of the People in Baltimore. Let me
tell you. The national team was amazing. I met so
many talented folks, the visionary leadership of Angela again bringing
you know, all of the services connecting the dots for
local and national folks there. But I couldn't make the
(22:36):
last day and I was so disappointed. I wanted to
see Joy read as well as you, Tiffany, and I
missed you. But we had to take my daughter to
a pre college program. So God has been so good
to me. I have no reason to complain.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Amazing, and Angela thanked everybody, and obvious we were right
there with Angela, but it really was her who looked
into your case and said she in multiple chats, she
was dropped like do y'all know? Have y'all read about this?
What's happening? And we were all right behind her, But
it was her to initially raise this to a national
profile because I really believe it would have gone another way.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
You know, says it right. I would have been as
shine the light on things to see the truth.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And so can I just say one more shout out?
I know, Tiff, but I just want to say one
more shout out.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Joy read I know.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
No, I'm not was amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I'm not I'm not being humble. I like to be
honest about what is in my wheelhouse to do and
what is not. Joy had a phenomenal platform on a
network that shall not be named because we shall not watch.
But when Joy broke that case down, Okay, Tiff, when
Joy broke that case down, it went viral.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
People were like, oh.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
My god, and she did it. You guys had the interview.
I mean it just anyway, everybody, we thank god.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I was just like, that's that's what I mean about
the earth things, just like yes.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Black women with black women call.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
I love that and y'all through that.
Speaker 7 (24:19):
I hope you know you are helping the shift culture
because some of the battle that we have here is
getting our folks to divorce themselves from the attitudes and
positioning racists, white supremacist men who have said how we're
all supposed to feel, act and respond to these situations,
accepting when they find themselves there a rarity, but excepting when.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
They find themselves there.
Speaker 7 (24:44):
And we don't need any other example beyond Donald Trump
to know that the earth then moves very differently depending
on who the focuses is pointed at at the time.
But Merylyn sister, we love you. We thank you for
taking time and bringing the listeners an update on what's
going on. Your smile, your grace is effusive, and so
(25:05):
if you're listening, I hope you can. I hope you
can hear that smile through through the through the system,
and if you're watching, you can certainly see the beauty
in it all, so thank you, sis, and we're always
there for.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
You than you.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
That was an excellent conversation, y'all. We just want to
remind you. If you enjoy.
Speaker 7 (25:24):
Listening, learning UH and want UH to participate in these
sort of brief deep dives into an issue, a topic area,
please like this episode, share it with your friends, subscribe
obviously forward it along with a message subscribe to a
Native lamp The best thing going on the internets and
in the world.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
UH.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
But for all seriousness, we love and care for Maryland.
We wish you the very best.
Speaker 7 (25:48):
I hope you all will continue to lift her and
your love and care with that we out you, Welcome
home that we out here.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
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Native Lamb Pod is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership
with Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome home, Everybody. This is Native Lamb Pod. I'm
Angela Raie. I'm with Andrew Gillim and Tiffany.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
You're gonna do what you're gonna do. Every week.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
This is our mini pod and we are so so
thrilled to have our sister, our friends joining us fresh
on the other side into liberation and freedom. Marylynd Moseby,
former Baltimore City States Attorney, a legend in her own right,
advocate for the people and also a local host committee member,
(00:45):
really our chair for the State of the People General
Assembly just last week, Maryland.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Welcome to the show again, Marylyn.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Thank you for having me. It's so good to see
everyone on the other side of liberation.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
Yes, yes, we glad that you liberating. You look really good, Marylynd.
I was looking at you, say up, you look gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you to me. You always do. I'm just telling
her she is channeling the Billy Holliday. I think her
coming to Baltimore.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Something I'm down and making, and it's so well outside
of making and one of those black towns I was
telling y'all about, and it's so hot down here, and
I had blown out my hair, and this morning I
watched it because it was so hot and human. And
now I'm looking at how gorgeous you and Angela look
and how Andrew always looks, and I'm like, I should
(01:34):
have kept myself together.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Listen, I didn't hear what neither one of y'all said.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
One of y'all going marl.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
No, I said, I love it.
Speaker 7 (01:45):
She looks beautiful, and I said, was ninety three degrees
at ten o'clock this morning, So yeaht.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Grateful for the humidity and no makeup though, So I
will say that feels I barely put lotion on my
face this morning.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
That yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say that. People don't want
to hear about.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Me, Well I want to if you can, Maryland, talk
about how you're feeling. You had to serve a sentence
for something you didn't do, which we've talked about at
nauseum on this show.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And even though just.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
True to form, the things are beeping to support what
we're saying, and we're so grateful Andrew for all of that. Backup,
But Marylyn I'd love to hear from you on how
you're feeling now.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So Angela, first and foremost, I'm just I feel so
much gratitude. I think, you know, God has been so
good to me and my girls. He has covered us
through the midst of this storm. And I say it
all the time and every sort of speech or any
sort of acknowledgment that I can. You know, unfortunately, a
lot of people in my life that I thought would
be there for me weren't. And that was also part
(02:59):
of the largest of divine plan. You know, before God elevates,
he separates in and exposed those the hearts of the
individuals that aren't really for you. But by the same token,
I feel so much gratitude because He did send Earth
angels into my life where you know, they were able
to pour into me and my girls in a way.
And I have to acknowledge that. I have to from
(03:21):
the bottom of my heart acknowledge and appreciate you. You know,
I got to say, Angela, I was drowning. You gave me,
You threw me a lifeline when I didn't even think
I could make it, Like you know, financially, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, reputationally.
(03:41):
They tried to break me on so many different levels
and make an example out of me for what I
stood for. I had absolutely nothing to do with anything
that I did wrong. You know, I withdrew my own
retirement savings that I put away every two weeks to
buy property that was the extent of what I was
accused of. And having to fight the federal government. You know,
(04:05):
it was really difficult. I lost everything. I lost my marriage,
I lost my career, I lost my house, I lost
my car. You know, it was my home. It was
a lot, and so many you know folks that I
thought again would be there weren't, but you were. And
I just want to please acknowledge this woman right here
who fights for the people so many different levels, and
(04:28):
she's seeing this black woman in need. And I just
got to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. Angela.
You have no idea. You use your platform to elevate
the circumstance. And it was thanks to you. We had
a national campaign and you know, organizations signed on Black
Win with black women, and you know, the Congressional Black
Caucus and sixty attorneys and Ben Crump, and you know,
(04:52):
it started with you.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Over one hundred thousand people.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
One hundred thousand people signed that petition. You know, Angela
had she delved into my case and if you would
have seen her her living room, she had no books,
and you know, she got down to the nitty gritty.
And I'm so incredibly grateful. So when you say how
do I feel in this moment, I feel so much gratitude.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I love to hear it. I just I want to
I do this all the time. It's important to me
to just acknowledge, Tiff and Andrew did not hesitate when
we talked about bringing this to this podcast and getting
a petition done. In all of that, and to our
professional development program students, all of the work they did
on graphics, on everything. But I really, you know, don't
(05:35):
want to necessarily take you back there. I think it's
so important to talk about the road ahead and in
that Andrew, you've seen this yourself. Marylyn is just getting
out of this and now facing another thing. So Marylynd,
if you could talk about kind of what you're up
against and how folks are coming at you now that
you you know, you feel like you're in the clear,
(05:56):
then cut the bracelet off. You're not being monitored no
longer a curfew and now that.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So, I mean, yeah, it's constant a battle, you know,
one of the things that they attempted to do while
I was you know, right now, we're still waiting for
the Fourth Circuit to make a decision on my appeal,
and we feel really great about the appeal. However, that
argument was in January. We're still waiting and it's still
looming and it can come any day. The government was
(06:21):
attempting to take my house and to take my law
license before the appeal was even exhausted, and the Supreme
Court in Maryland basically said that you cannot do that.
So it's been a constant struggle in a battle that
we won temporarily until this appeal is ultimately decided. But
as soon as you get you take one step forward,
(06:43):
it feels like you're being pulled three steps back.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
My predecessor, well not actually he's the person who has
come in after me. I would just say, I've in Bays,
who's the newly elected state attorney, has used this opportunity
to try to hurt me. He filed an attorney grievance
against me on one particular case. You know, despite the
(07:09):
thousands of cases that I oversaw that I didn't personally investigate.
Really a shucking and driving. You know, we got those
folks and tap dance and hold the water for the
status quo. And that's essentially what's being done. So I
have to now, on top of wait for the Court
of Appeals decision to be heard to determine whether I'm
(07:29):
going to keep my law license in my home. I
now have to fight an additional battle, which is to
defend myself in the ad non said case, which I
believe I was right in making that determination. He has
challenged my discretion and it has made an unprecedented move
to fil an attorney grievance against me and the attorney
(07:52):
who actually investigated the case. And so we are both,
you know, again battling again on the affront to try
to keep my law license in defense of that case.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Because you brought up the said case one your successor,
Ivan Bates. I'm curious why the focus and attention on you.
I imagine the good people of Baltimore would like their
tax dollars being used in resources on something certainly more pressing.
I've known you, Maryland for over ten years now, I
(08:23):
can assure the people of Baltimore you are not a fugitive,
You are not a threat to society. You have certainly
enhanced that city and your influence cast a wide shadow
across the nation. So I'm curious if you have any
thoughts on why he's so focused on you. Secondly, if
you would, just for the benefit of our audience, give
(08:44):
a little background on what the Sai case is and
what the issue is since you since you brought it up.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So anand Sayid was another one. I created the first
conviction integrity unit in the entire state of Maryland where
we did reinvestigations into claims of actual and I also
had a sentencing review unit where we modified and reduced
the sentences of juvenile lifers and the elderly prison population,
where we released more than sixty individuals by modifying their sentence.
(09:14):
I had an individual attorney that actually was a senior
attorney at the Public Defender's Office, Becky Feldman, who came
over and worked my sentencing review unit, and under her leadership,
she actually reviewed the ad Non Sayid case. This is
a case that dates very far back where he was
(09:36):
wrongly if we believe after a thorough investigation that he
was wrongly convicted of murder, and so we did our
due diligence. We investigated the case and ultimately made a
recommendation to vacate the conviction of ad Non said and rightfully,
so we would argue, as you are aware, prosecutors, we
(09:57):
exercised our discretion every single day, right, and thousands of cases,
and this particular case is a high profile case. It's
rather controversial. But when you are elected into these positions
and as a leader, you have to make a decision, right,
you stand on on the moral beliefs of what you're
(10:18):
doing is right. And that's what we did. I got
to say the mission of my office was justice over convictions. Unfortunately,
you know, I think that the newly elected state attorney
is playing politics just like Trump. Right. Unfortunately, he took
advantage of the of the fact that I had this
(10:38):
bogus investigation and looming criminal case hanging over me. He
had run against me before and lost, but this time around,
he won, and he ran on a platform of pretty
much reversing everything that I had done in my office,
progressive related and he did just that. So, now, when
you ask why would someone do something like that, well
(11:00):
he was, you know of the Fox forty five who
was a local sort of fox station put two hundred
thousand dollars into my race to support him, right, And
so why would he do that. He carries the weight
of the status quo. And so unfortunately the people of
Baltimore voted for this man, and just like Trump, they
(11:20):
voted against their own self interest. So you get what
you voted for. And so that's who he is. He's
showing to be who he's always been.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
That's all rings so familiar, Maryland. But I just first
got to say, you have breath in your body. Yes,
you are yes on the other side, and you and
I could talk one on one about the traumat the
trauma of all of it, and how you get revisited
by it, if not every moment of the day, every
(11:59):
other moment of the day, you feel some reminder. But
if I could just say, you and I both and
maybe more than us, will have to work very hard
to expel those voices that operate in our head that
cause us to be curious about everything we do, how
people feel about us, whether we're welcome to move in
(12:22):
certain spaces or not. You're on the other side of it.
But as you know, this trauma is certainly I hope
it isn't, but it feels like it might be a
lifetime wound that constantly has to be tended to in
some way, and that maybe over time what happens is
is that our our heart won't always feel like it's
(12:43):
carried outside our body on our sleeves, that it won't
impact us so severely as it did from the beginning
as time passes by. I'll also just say this that
the enemies who are again rising against you, and I
wholly accept your description of this, of this new prosecutor,
these folks, they don't The devil comes to kill and destroy, right,
(13:07):
he comes to kill and destroy, And in fact I
now begin to accept in that order.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
Right, they kill you, destroy you, kill you again, just
to make sure you're dead. Right. My grandmother said they.
Speaker 7 (13:18):
Gonna kill you dead. I thought, like, hell, you're already dead. No,
they're gonna kill you dead. So just be be aware
that Tiffany said I think a little earlier that you're
you know, you're not a threat, You're not this. I
just want to reassure you remain a threat so long
as you have breath in your body, and you are
the woman of character that I came to know many
years ago when you first got elected. You will continue
(13:40):
to be a threat by how do we say, getting
in good trouble, And I just want to admonish you,
friend that I think I'm speaking to myself too. We
have to not shrink from the gifts that God has
given us to continue to operate in good trouble. And
I think the beauty in that is that the same
(14:00):
people who were attracted to you when they elected you
for that fight, for that fierceness, those are gonna be
the same champions who come riding and dying for you
on this one. Lastly, the people who disappointed us by
not showing up, I just want to and part of
my process of releasing them was simply to say, everybody
(14:20):
doesn't operate at the same level of freedom.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
As we think.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
Everybody that we thought was courageous and courageous, everybody who
was running with us and acting like they were equals
and equal to our hustle, were actually just pretenders and
hangers on. And I think when we look at them
sympathetically as I'm sorry I thought you were of sterner things,
(14:50):
you're not let it go because you got too much
work to do. The haters, detractors, they're there for a
I acknowledge that. But you're here for a mission too,
and I believe yours this greater and more powerful, more impactful,
and just cheering and riding for.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
You because you deserve it. God got you here again
because you deserve it, not stand in it.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
And I just want to say, I mean, I think,
even looking to folks like yourself who were champions for
our people and for our communities, and for justice right
and for all people, and the way in which the
status quo came for you, you know I've learned from it.
And I say this all the time, what happened to me.
(15:37):
I don't have any sort of bitterness in my heart.
I have nothing but gratitude even for the haters right,
because I've been able to delve and into deep, deeply
within myself, and I'm a better person as a result
of the experience you. I always say that you learn lessons.
(15:57):
I learned lessons at rock bottom that peaks of mountaintops
will never teach you. It required me to hit rock bottom,
for me to lose everything, for me to open my
eyes and to get back to myself, and I would
love to take the credit for it, but I can't.
Like at the end of the day, I don't look
(16:17):
like what I've been through because I'm divinely protected, just
like you are divinely protected, just like Tip. It's divinely protected,
right like no matter what they try to do, as
you've already said, you know the gifts and the talents
that God has given us, the devil will try to
stop so that we don't understand and recognize our purpose
and our greater purpose. And so I'm grateful for it
(16:39):
all I've learned from all of you. I am so
grateful for your support, and I've learned right, I've grown,
so there's no reason for me to have any sort
of animosity. But what I will also know knowing myself
is that I will always speak truth to power, like
I'm always going to tell the truth. And so if
that ruffles fathers, then guess what so be it?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Marilyn.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Let me ask you. I'm writing about heartbreak right now,
and I'm writing about a conversation that you and I
had when you were going through all of this, and
I don't want to say it now because I want
people to re read it when it comes out. But
I just I remember walking away thinking, man at her
lowest point, she poured into me with a message that
(17:25):
was so profound. But what I don't think that our
that that society at large realizes, is when you're charged
with something like this. Andrew, certainly you know firsthand it
is not okay, you're found not guilty, or you have
one year probation. It lingers with you financially, it lingers
(17:49):
with you socially, and it was it kind of broke
my heart. Hurt my heart to hear you say that, Andrew,
that you have to think about am I welcome in
certain spaces and how people might regard you. Any space
Andrew ain't welcome. Let me just tell y'all that I'm
not welcome. I ain't going right, But get y'all want
to go. Yeah, any space Angelae and welcome, I'm not going.
(18:09):
So I mean we move as community.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
But I will add one thing though, Yeah, he's you
gotta go into those spaces, right like God has poured
into you and you are an example of his existence. Yeah,
so you going into those spaces and glowing and being
successful and just as articulate and intelligent showcasing your talent.
You gotta do that.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Sorry, that's okay.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
We're coming up on time. Nick, our producer is telling
us we gotta go, But I want to give you
a chance to answer this question. What are the implications
that you will carry long after this because I'm trying
to punctuate the point to our audience that these things
are life changing and it can also be life devastating.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
You have two girls, and so.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
We all celebrated, like yay, Maryland does not have to
go behind bars. But there are so many other things
to consider. Like you said, you lost both homes in Florida.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Correct, I lost.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I had to sell one for attorney's fees, and then
the one is pending this appeal. The government is trying
to take it.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Okay, well, we want you to keep that home because
you didn't do anything wrong. Is your home and America
lied to us. That was the American dream, the home ownership,
and you beat the odds, went to college, went to
grad school and did all that. And now they took
it because they played a long game. When you said
on those stairs and said our time is now against
(19:34):
the charges against the officers who were charging the murder
of Freddie Gray, and then financially you still have attorney fees.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
I would imagine that you're still paying.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, I mean there are a number of implications. I mean,
right now, I'm technically a felon, right like so a felon.
As a felon, we know in this country, if you're
not Donald Trump with thirty four felonies and you're running
for president, you are second class citizen, especially for black people.
You can no longer apply for a job, you can
no longer apply for housing, you can't go back to
school because you can't get any financial aid, and then
(20:06):
what other recourse do you have but to what often
happens in our communities, the individuals going back and doing
what they were doing in the first place. And so
that's the biggest sort of sort of implication as a
result of this conviction. I'm hopeful though I operate in
faith and not fear, and I know that God is
real and he's protected me all this time. That you know,
(20:28):
I'm hopeful that the conviction will be reversed. I think
the greater sort of implications for me have always been
my concern for my children, because my girls fourteen and
sixteen years old, and they have had to experience this
trauma with me. When I went through my anxiety, when
I went through the divorce, when we went through the
stress of you know, everything that was put upon me.
(20:51):
They saw my depression, right, They saw me crying at night,
they saw when I couldn't get out of bed, they
saw when you know, organizations were like, I need you
to resign. Right, black women organizations as a result of
this ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Can we call them out because I think that they
should be. The Links are.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
One of the organizations.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Yeah, Like, I don't understand. I don't want to be
affiliated with women who cannot stand with me in the storm.
And so if the reputator, if you are so into
the white gaze that you have to say, we can't
be affiliated with you anymore. Nothing about that says sisterhood
to me. So I don't know if the national organization
of the Links or people who represent the Links, how
(21:33):
you all feel about it. But please, if you have
some sort of justificate what we want to hear from you,
but give give us a video and tell us why
you thought it was appropriate and not standing with Marylyn
Moseby when over one hundred thousand people did so stood
with her that they signed a petition. But I believe
it's more than one hundred thousand people who are cheering
for you, Maryland. So that's very disappointing. So I know
how you feel.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That's no, and I appreciate that, TIF and I appreciate
the question. But it was in that moment that my daughter,
I had it on the speakerphone in my ought have
heard them say we need your resignation and started crying
right like. So those are the implications that are, like
I guess, long term effects. So we put our girls
in therapy. God has been so good to them. He's
(22:13):
covered them. They are amazing. You know, we just dropped
off nilin after the State of the People. We had
a phenomenal State of the People in Baltimore. Let me
tell you. The national team was amazing. I met so
many talented folks, the visionary leadership of Angela again bringing
you know, all of the services connecting the dots for
local and national folks there. But I couldn't make the
(22:36):
last day and I was so disappointed. I wanted to
see Joy read as well as you, Tiffany, and I
missed you. But we had to take my daughter to
a pre college program. So God has been so good
to me. I have no reason to complain.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Amazing, and Angela thanked everybody, and obvious we were right
there with Angela, but it really was her who looked
into your case and said she in multiple chats, she
was dropped like do y'all know? Have y'all read about this?
What's happening? And we were all right behind her, But
it was her to initially raise this to a national
profile because I really believe it would have gone another way.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
You know, says it right. I would have been as
shine the light on things to see the truth.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And so can I just say one more shout out?
I know, Tiff, but I just want to say one
more shout out.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Joy read I know.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
No, I'm not was amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I'm not I'm not being humble. I like to be
honest about what is in my wheelhouse to do and
what is not. Joy had a phenomenal platform on a
network that shall not be named because we shall not watch.
But when Joy broke that case down, Okay, Tiff, when
Joy broke that case down, it went viral.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
People were like, oh.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
My god, and she did it. You guys had the interview.
I mean it just anyway, everybody, we thank god.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I was just like, that's that's what I mean about
the earth things, just like yes.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Black women with black women call.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
I love that and y'all through that.
Speaker 7 (24:19):
I hope you know you are helping the shift culture
because some of the battle that we have here is
getting our folks to divorce themselves from the attitudes and
positioning racists, white supremacist men who have said how we're
all supposed to feel, act and respond to these situations,
accepting when they find themselves there a rarity, but excepting when.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
They find themselves there.
Speaker 7 (24:44):
And we don't need any other example beyond Donald Trump
to know that the earth then moves very differently depending
on who the focuses is pointed at at the time.
But Merylyn sister, we love you. We thank you for
taking time and bringing the listeners an update on what's
going on. Your smile, your grace is effusive, and so
(25:05):
if you're listening, I hope you can. I hope you
can hear that smile through through the through the system,
and if you're watching, you can certainly see the beauty
in it all, so thank you, sis, and we're always
there for.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
You than you.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
That was an excellent conversation, y'all. We just want to
remind you. If you enjoy.
Speaker 7 (25:24):
Listening, learning UH and want UH to participate in these
sort of brief deep dives into an issue, a topic area,
please like this episode, share it with your friends, subscribe
obviously forward it along with a message subscribe to a
Native lamp The best thing going on the internets and
in the world.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
UH.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
But for all seriousness, we love and care for Maryland.
We wish you the very best.
Speaker 7 (25:48):
I hope you all will continue to lift her and
your love and care with that we out you, Welcome
home that we out here.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
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Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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