August 15, 2025 • 31 mins
On this week’s MiniPod, our host Tiffany Cross has a story to tell Angela Rye and Andrew Gillum. Tiffany almost got into a fight on a cable news roundtable. We have some juicy behind the scenes details that segues into a surprisingly intellectual conversation about working in media while Black (spoiler alert: the Karens are everywhere).
In addition, the hosts answer one of your questions about voter registration. There’s a connection to the redistricting wars, the Shelby vs. Holder Supreme Court decision, and the shockingly recent history of voter suppression.
If you’d like to submit a question, check out our tutorial video: www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/
Welcome home y’all!
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Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.
Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:
Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
Theme music created by Daniel Laurent.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome home. Y'all. My name is Chris and I am
a fifth grade teacher here in Atlanta and Asucacy. My
classroom is very it's a problem America has a problem
feature in Beyonce and my creative flag that I did
with actual you can't zoom in, but with actual people
(00:30):
inside of the stars and my HBC wall. Nonetheless, my
question is is it overzealous of me to think or
believe that every time, or to believe that once we
hit the age of eighteen we should be automatically registered
to vote and kind of get rid of this. People
don't vote because they don't register, and just go ahead
(00:52):
and give them the automatic right. Why are we making
people register to vote and putting them through the ringer
when we know they exist, The government knows you're eighteen,
Now just give you the automatic right to vote. Is
that over zealous? Maybe so, but just give me your opinion.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Thank you so much, Christian.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I believe being a teacher.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yes, we are very very grateful for your question. You
know we are.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
I believe voting rights advocates on the show, I certain
believe in compulsory registration and so many other ways to
ensure that people feel compelled to participate. We've been spending
a lot of time talking about redistricting on our shows,
Tiff and Andrew, and I wanted to get into well,
(01:40):
welcome to opinions, dicey right now, welcome to what we
jumping right in.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Yeah, so that's.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Something he can advocate. By the way, in his own state,
each step you can determine how they conduct registration.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Right exactly, so he can advocate that for advocate for
that in the state of Georgia. And I was just
going to point that out Andrew, that it is a
state right, like how elections are run. That is actually
a step for now, that is a state issue, so
he should be participating in that. And because he's from Atlanta,
he's going to give a shout out to Latasha Brown
and Black Voters Matter because they may be pursuing something
(02:16):
like that already, or just so he doesn't feel like
he has to be overwhelmed with that. He can join
forces with other organizations who may already be pursuing And
thank you for the question.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Yeah, So, speaking of there's a measure last Congress called
the Freedom to Vote Act, and one of the pieces
in the bill called for a national automatic voter registration,
which twenty two states in DC already have to the
(02:50):
point that Tiff and Andrew were just raising about what
states do. But there is a pre Souden bill that's
been getting a lot of attention lady lately for some challenges,
and that's around these independent redistricting commissions. But before we
get there, I know TIF had a story of violence,
and perhaps that will keep you watching a little bit longer.
(03:12):
So I don't know if we tease the violence now,
we get to it later.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I haven't wanted to tell it a story, and I
was decided on if I would tell it or not,
and today I just felt compelled to tell it. And
I will give a shout out because the state red Buck,
that's the that is the name of a many time,
I think because.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I they a teaser.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Okay, So I on occasion do Abby Phillips show on CNN,
and look, we have our opinions about how things progress
and transpire on the show. It is supposed to be
a show for ideological debate and it often devolves into
(03:57):
mudslinging at times, and you know, it's it can be challenging.
And so you say you said the times, Yeah, it's yes.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
One thing Andrew gonna do is play a flave. That's
one thing he gonna do.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It was conversation on well it's fine.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
So I was.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I appeared on Abby Show with this woman Brooke. I
forget her last name. I think it's a Goldstein gold Stegn.
I can't remember. But so we have like very intense
discussions and during the commercial break, I don't When I
arrived at the studio, I don't I don't engage. I'm
not in the green room with everybody. I can't make
small talk with people whose beliefs I find abhorrent. I
(04:45):
don't really give a ship where your kids are thinking
about going to college. I don't care what you did
this weekend. I don't want to hear about your summer plans,
summer vacation plans. I walk it like I talk it.
You know, I believe that, and I believe that everybody
on this podcast is probably the same way. We're very
similarly situated that way, And so I don't make small
talk during the commercial breaks either, like we can keep
(05:05):
our conversations on air, and I try to normalize having
a very intelligent response, even in the face of insults,
to not get in the mud with people. And I failed.
I failed at that, and I'll tell you why. So
I was on with this woman and we were Abby
showed several really disturbing clips of starving children in Gaza
(05:29):
and you saw a child die, this ten year old
girl who was just skin and bones, but it was
you know, she's one of thousands. Unfortunately, it was really heartbreaking.
And this woman was on the show, who she said,
you know why, is basically trying to defend She's like,
this is all Harmas's fault. And if you know, the
(05:53):
food workers work with Harmas, and Hamas shows children with
genetic diseases who looked that way anyway without starvation, and
I just lost it. I mean, I just couldn't, you know,
let her keep saying that kind of misinformation platforming somebody
like that. I mean, I you know that I'm not
in the business to say who comes on what shows anymore,
(06:17):
but I just had a real issue with her saying
something that's demonstrably false. So I interrupt her, and I
start talking about actual facts and data coming out of Gaza,
and I'm saying, you know, this is horrific, and who
could possibly look at this footage and say something about
hamas like the only thing a human being could see
(06:40):
as a starving child. So that is where our focus
should be. So she says, are you trying to say
I don't care about starving children? And I said, well,
it certainly doesn't sound like it. So during the commercial break,
this is where things went left. And pray for her
that I was on the panel that night and not
either of my co host particularly into a She turns
(07:04):
to me and puts her hands on me, puts her
hands on my shoulder and has her fingers like this
close to my face and is like, honey, do not
say that I don't care about starving children. So already
my blood is boiling. But I'm trying to contain myself
because to me, I feel like this is violence. You're
touching me without my permission, and you have your fingers
(07:26):
a little too close to my face for comfort, and
so I say, get your hands off me, do not
touch me, and move your fingers from my face. I
move her fingers out of my face. And she says,
you're saying I don't care about starving children. She's going
on and on, and I was like, you are complicit
in what's happening. You are intentionally stating things that are
(07:47):
not facts, and shame on you. And she is escalating,
and she says you.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
In my best self, I would have flown so above that.
I would have just been like, wow, like what a
you know, immature person that you can't contain your emotions
that way? Like how immature and silly? And you look
stupid and ignorant. And you will not you will not
take my dignity. Sadly, that is not what happened, and
(08:17):
I lose it. So now I'm saying you and we
are yelling at each other, and I'm seriously sitting there
thinking I am about to get into a fistfight with
this woman. She is unhinged. And so people were getting
their makeup, and so at this point the panel was
paying attention to us because now we're yelling and she
keeps talking to me, and I'm like, the child with
(08:38):
the bad attitude is still talking. You need to direct
your conversation elsewhere. They had to come escorter off the
set after the show and all of that, but I
just felt so, you know, I'm like, I don't need
to be I'm a professional, grown ass woman. I don't
conduct myself that way. I certainly don't take pride in
yelling and cursing at somebody on set. I've always tried
(08:58):
to maintain my dignity in the most challenging of moments,
and I failed myself at that time. But also because
her husband was in the studio for some reason, I'm like,
I don't even understand why he in the studio it was,
And then she started complaining, saying, oh my gosh, she's
so unprofessional. She's trying to talk to Abby and the producers.
She's sitting here yelling at me and cursing, And I thought, oh,
this is a liar, because now you're saying I'm the
(09:20):
person who said you and everybody's like, okay, you guys, okay,
you guys, calmed down, And it just made me so upset,
And I know, like, doing this show is challenging at times.
There's a reason why I do the show, but doing
this show is challenging at times, and I just wanted
to tell y'all what happened. I told y'all a quick
version of what happened we were on the call, but
now I'm telling the viewers and everybody what happened. I
(09:43):
don't know how y'all would handle that situation. I don't
like it.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I won't ever appear with her again.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well because I if I strike first, you know, then
it is a problem. But I was in that space
where it's like we are not having a debate anymore.
Now we're just two women with a problem with each other,
and I'm going to proceed accordingly. And you know how
it is. There's me and this white woman who's already lied,
you know, who's already playing a victim. Anyway, I was
(10:12):
just pissed off about the whole thing, you know. Anyway,
I just wanted to share the story.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I'm proud of you.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Well, what would you have done?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Andrew's hard for you because you're a black man, so
it's harder to engage that.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, clearly we could. We wouldn't have been able to
escalate that way. But similar to you, I didn't talk
to people. We didn't have key ki ki.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And in the green rooms about the kind of inhumane
shit you thought and said about me when we were
in front of the camera, and then after it's just
like and how old are your kids? Now? I'm like,
I'm not talking to you about my children, right, Like,
that's we're entitled to that. We're not friends, and we're
also this is not for play, Okay, what you just
(10:53):
set up there is going to cost somebody something, right
There are people, whole communities and people who are going
to be looked at different circumspect because it's some shit
you just made public publicly acceptable. You created a permission
structure for a certain set of things to now transpire.
And that's what this woman did by ignoring her own
(11:13):
humanity and basically saying, oh no, it's sill, just people
who are stopping them. Who sees a starving child and
doesn't have a heart for that, right, I'm just surprised
that she that she can look.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
She felt comfortable that that was my problem.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You feel comfortable enough putting your fingers in my face
and your hands on me, And it wasn't. I don't
think it was handle the way that it should have
been handled. But I don't know. I just I think
this is something that happened on the TV set but
I'm also thinking about confrontations that happen every day, and
as black people, we got about point five seconds to decide.
(11:47):
Am I going to rise above it and make you
feel this big like I'm just ignoring you. I don't
even see you, I don't hear you, or am I
gonna go spider monkey on your ass? So you know
I am not the one. And it's a challenging sing
situation for us to be in, regardless it's on the
TV set or not. It's just regardless if you could
be at the airport and at a rest or any
point where they feel deputized that they could one touch you,
(12:09):
to speak to you any kind of way, and three
insert themselves in something where they really shouldn't even be
addressing us.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So that's why if you say it's a TV set,
but that makes it all the more unusual. Right when
the camera is to me, that makes it more unusual.
I think you did what you needed to do, which
is you use your words and as you are the
first to admit you have an acid as tongue when
you want. And the reason why she had to escalate
(12:36):
where she went is because she couldn't meet you there,
right she had to go to some other palace because
she couldn't meet you there. So I'll just say, like
I tell my kids, use your words, choose them, but
use your words.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Yeah, first tip.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
I hate that you have that experience because it's all
too common, and it's one I think Andrew you experience,
I experience on network, and I think having some distance
now from being a commentator for a little bit, it's
not an aspect of it that I miss at all.
In fact, we've talked about this a little bit in
passing on the show. I'm surprised about how much you've
(13:12):
gone on because when you were to. Initially, when I
was like, oh, they want us on the show, Tiff
was like, absolutely not, We're not doing that. You should
even go, And now I feel how you feel. Definitely
not that much. I remember Joy was saying when she
was starting her show, she was like, I went on
one time, and for me, even last week when they
reached out, I said, until the whole podcast is going on,
(13:33):
I'm not going. And I maintain that, and the reason
for it is I just think that, especially in this
moment in this country, we deserve to have conversations in
safe spaces, even if we disagree, right, there are some
things that should be off limits and until the space.
It's not just networks, but the spaces that we choose
(13:54):
to occupy, to be sharing a word, you know, evangelizing, share,
you know.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Share in facts.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
There are certain parameters that should be set to ensure
our physical and psychological and even emotional safety. And I
think sometimes even you know, on this show, we wrestle
with that because there's something going on for one of
us that we didn't know about. But we're always gonna
right set that because we love each other. I think
the intention has to be to tell the truth in love.
(14:20):
That in love piece is a necessary part even in disagreement.
But you don't ever like have the right to disrespect
our sister. If we see it, we're gonna call you
on it. It ain't cool. And I would require that
of people who ask us to share space with them,
especially you know, with you being so gifted.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
So I know you don't want to go on, Angela,
I would love to see you go on, And this
is my reason why I'll tell y'all offline while I
go on there. But this is my thinking because Angela is,
like y'all have seen We talked about Angela refusing these networks,
like she down like four flat tires every single time
for her friends, her crew, colleagues, all that. But my
(15:01):
thought on having all three of us on there, so
then you have one night with all NLP and then
you're done. Versus if I'm on Monday night, you have
a promo for NLP, If Angela's on Wednesday, you have
a promo for MLP. If Andrew's on Friday, you have
a promo for NLP. I know, I know, I'm just
saying if and so if Angela, if your only reason
is no because they won't have all of us, Andrew's
(15:23):
not going to go either way. I'm always happy to go.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah, as Andrew, you said you would if we all
went on today, you.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Know, I mean, i would do stuff that is of
a level, But I'm not generally going to sit down
and be on the opposite side of.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Somebody going on.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
If the three of us were going on in an
asshole just so happened to be on that day. You
said before you would go on if it was the collective, Yeah,
they wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
They wouldn't put the three of us on with the
That's not.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
What I was told, and that's the only reason why
I went on initially, and the only reason why I
asked Tip to go on initially, right, Like this is I.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Agree with Tift though I think I think, I think
it is important for your voices to be in the
mix there because the aspects of it, you know, I mean,
I feel you.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
I'm just not going to do that until there are
safety parameters. And again from a network that once paid
me for my commentary, you pay me what you owe me, right,
I'm definitely.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Not going on more recently.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
I'm not going on frequently. I'm not doing that, Like
I know what I'm worth, and I'm not going to
add to your ratings and you're not you're not reciprocating that,
especially not to put me in harm's way literally, just showing.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
You that you introduced perspectives that might otherwise not be there,
and that's why you get paid to introduce those perspectives.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
But again, and so for me, the only added benefit
of going on a network right now, from my perspective,
I'm very interested in the social experiment we're engaging in
and how we bring eyeballs to our show, and if
it's not going to be a mutually beneficial exchange.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
I'm not here for it.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
It's just my my psychological well being and safety matter
too much to me in this season in my life,
I get there especially. I mean literally, we're watching kids
pay for their lives in DC.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
And they don't create it. But the main thing is
just to be clear, I know y'all know, I know
what I want.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
The viewers.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You know, they do not pay me for my appearance
or my time at all. I go up there for free.
And that is the point Angela's making, Like if I'm
if she's gonna fly across the country and go on
this network and have to be confronted by and confront
people who spent racist ideology, disinformation, people who violate her
(17:37):
personal space, all those things. Her perspective is it needs
to be I need to benefit from it. Either A
I am a formal contributor where I'm collecting a check
so this is about my job. Or B you're gonna
have my co hosts on and all of us are
going to get a benefit out of being on there,
which I completely get that perspective. I may be back
on this week or next week, or maybe once they
(17:59):
hear this podcast never who knows, who knows, but I
will share. I will share more with you guys on
why I go on the show offline. And it's not
because I'm trying to keep something away from the viewers,
but I just I think it's relevant to the co host.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
No, I thank you again. I'd say double down, do it,
but I know how much they pay.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Well, I know.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I just want to.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Yeah, I mean, go ahead, go ahead, exactly that. And
that's that's the point. Like give tip, pay Tip what
you owe her too, because she have you been going
on every week.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
To No, I mean I would, but I just I
don't have the time commitment to do it. So maybe
once or twice a.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Month, okay, Well either way, pay her what you are.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
She's added to the ratings to Abby, we love you
sis and there.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
And I do want her to be what are we
false advertising?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
We talked about redistricting.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And we got time.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
No, I don't want to, I don't want.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
I just want you guys the weigh in on the commissions.
Because Andrew said that he thinks.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I just think we can have that fight. I don't
think it's the fight to be had right now.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Well, we'll talk about what the fight is brother.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
The fight right now is they're trying to cheat and
throw us out of the game completely, and we cannot
go quietly into that good night. Right So, I don't
want to debate whether or not you believe ideally in
commissions and whether you think they can work or not work.
I'm not actually that interested in anybody thoughts on that.
(19:41):
I'm right now interested and with the power that you
do have right now in this moment, what are you
going to do to make sure we can live to
fight another day? Because you're theoretical and you're what government
looks like and all that kind of stuff. It's all
good when we're talking about about normal times and we're
talking about we're talking about a game where everybody respects
(20:07):
the rules and abides by them. That's not where we
are right now. Right now, we have cheaters on the
other side, and so we're not trying to cheat with them.
We're just trying to level the damn field. We just
want to level it. So whatever we have to. If
you can be for commissions, you can be a spokesperson
for them. I, however, am not interested in it right now.
(20:30):
I'm not interested in your opinion on it, Your advocacy,
your good government's opinion. I'm interested in knowing, right now,
in your position, with the power that you right now have,
what are you going to do to ensure that we
can live to fight another day.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
This is the thing I think that we Okay, just
take a step back with me for a second. As
soon as Gavin Newsom talked about responding in this way
is almost an immediate release of all these other states
where these Republicans were going to go after other black
(21:06):
people who happen to be Democrats. And so what that
tells me is that this is something that has long
been planned. And to the point that Tiff said in
the main episode around DC, is that this is also
a litmus test.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
They the first.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Litmus test wasn't right now, It was in North Carolina.
As we talked about, I think that what we have
to do, say it again, is.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Not important to do now. But I debate the beginning
of this.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Okay, well, I'm saying the first time they tried it
in like the middle of it, right right, right right,
You're saying that that's also different.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
You take issue with that.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
No, no, no, I mean in this kind of orientation, I
could concede that North Carolina may have been the shot
over the bow. However, redistricting period and the way in
which the ruling majority, be they Democrat or Republican, have
approached that has always been at the sacrifice of black men,
(22:00):
voters and black representation.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Okay, I agree with that. I'm talking specifically about here
is the census, Here is the point in which you're
supposed to redistrict. We're gonna not We're no longer following
those rules. We're just going to do this in the
middle of the thing or three years into the thing.
North Carolina, I believe, was the first state. Is there
something as another state that you know?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
No, there have been other states prior to North Carolina
who have updated, quote updated their numbers or gone without
updating numbers and drawn seats from the state level, from
the local state to the federal level. There have also been,
of course, as you know, court cases which have lingered
(22:41):
on into the mid decinial.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I think that's different.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I get it, I get it, But both have existed.
We have seen efforts where and we again, I think
it's a lesser point than the point you want to make,
So I don't even want to.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Well, I think it's important if I like, if my
information is wrong, I definitely want to know. But my
understanding is North Carolina is the first state to kind
of just say in twenty three reactionally, are just going
to change this and do it in a way that
hurts black people. So if that's wrong, I want to
fix it. I'm not saying historically it's never happened, but
(23:20):
you know, leading up to VR, before we had section
five that you know with the formula in Section four
a VR of the Voting Rights Act, we don't have
that anymore. So they were stress testing. My understanding is
they were stress testing what they could get away with
since the elimination or the obliteration of Section five via
the gutting of Section four. If that's not true, I
(23:41):
will conceee the point. I just want to know what
the facts are now.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
No, no, no, will we will for the sake of
this conversation and moving forward.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
I can see the point, okay, But on this particular issue,
we have been blindsided essentially because North Carolina was a
trial and then they went after all of these other
seats and they're saying they're going to do that. So
the moment there is an equal, there's an action, there's
(24:10):
an equal reaction. There is a response from them that
they clearly have been planning for some time. There is
no plan on our side. So what the plan was
on our side is like, okay, everybody two years ago,
let's just do this fair. Let's make sure that we
have these commissions. To Congressman Thompson's point from Tunica this weekend,
it's no such thing as a bipartisan or nonpartisan commission.
(24:33):
Everybody has a leaning, even courts where they are supposed
to not be partisan at all, have a leaning of
political ideology, ideological leaning, and so it is a farce.
So the idea that we will be fair with these
independent commissions, it is not true. There's always a bias.
We saw that, we've seen it even in California. There
(24:55):
is a bias.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
There is a bias. It is less than the one
that we can get under its current structure, but it's
the bias that we tolerate. So we're basically saying, okay,
if the governor is a Democrat and the governor gets
the fifteenth appointment as the tie breaker, we know that
if it comes down to the fifteenth appoint appointee that
it's likely going to go the way of the governor
(25:19):
that appointed would be the general thinking.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't understand how
we could even possibly be having this conversation when Shelby
versus Holder was a case that went to the Supreme
Court in twenty thirteen. I don't understand how we could
possibly be having this conversation when this country just got
its first black president in two thousand and eight. I
don't understand how we could be having this conversation when
(25:44):
the country just had its first black woman nominee last year, Like,
how are we having?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
But none of that changed, None of that changed the
underlying motivations for what happens in this process. It is it.
It existed before Obama, and it has existed after.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
No, no, no, I'm talking about the Freedom to Vote Act,
pushing it to be a nationwide thing that we would
cleave to, that we would gather around, that we support
when and I didn't even get to this part yet
when after President Obama was elected. Now, voting voter id
needs to become a thing.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Now.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Early voting days need to be cut. Now, Absentee voting needs.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
To be.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Re litigated. And reviewed.
Speaker 5 (26:29):
How can we possibly be talking about the independent commissions
when we're watching states introduce bills like these.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
That's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
I just think that we often let our wishful thinking
get in the way of our reality, and when we
do that, it puts our people in harm's way VISA
v suppressive efforts at the voting boosts, VISA be having
to prove your.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Citizenship and whether or not you live in the neighborhood
you live.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Now, folks are an account provisional balance that may not
be counted if they don't get to that part.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
The we you're talking about is invisible. I don't think
that the collective, the we that we're thinking of. I
think the conversation we're having is how we could would be,
how democrats could, how how fair minded and thinking electeds
might and in this case, it would be how democrats
could even consider post Shelby any of this.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
I am not actually talking about Democrats, because I know
I am. When I say we, I'm always talking black.
So let me just let me just make sure I'm
very clear. I do not believe that people who have
constantly and continuously betrayed us will do the right thing
except for being pushed to do the right thing.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And example, I've seen mostly black legislators at the legislative
level have largely stood against these sort of utopic good
government redistricting commissions. There are some you can point out well,
But the point that I'm making is is that in
spite of that, the rules, the sacrifices that the political
(28:11):
parties have been able to make, and what loss they're
willing to endure has always been our loss, like their tolerance,
they're pain threshold. Always. Always, it's baked into the pie
that we're going to lose black representation, that there's a
likelihood that we will reduce black seats, we may even
(28:31):
obliterate them. But if we get a progressive then all
is failed.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I'm not okay with that.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Com I'm not okay with it either. I'm simply saying
that that is that's always, it's baked into the pie,
that there is no party love when it comes to that,
and I think it takes black people being the conscience
and basically saying, now, you realize that if such and
such had this seat over me, that we would be
(28:58):
negotiating against our sales on the most basic fundamental shit
that should be automatic for the people with whom I am,
I am representing and voicing for right now, right that
we know that, I know that there are people who
couldnot switch places with me as the mayor, and my
community could expect that they were going to ride as
(29:19):
hard on this, that and the third as I would.
I wouldn't risk it. All I'm saying is that largely
white liberals have tolerated the loss of what we all
know is going to be lost, which is representation and
community reflected representation. Right, they don't really care about that.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I don't they disagree. We don't disagree on that.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I think we do agree. I'm just saying there's nothing.
There's no revelation. Shelby wasn't the revelation for us to
know that. I'm saying we should have always known where
the sacrificial No.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Shelby wasn't the revelation. Shelby was the undoing, the gutting,
and then the voting rights, the very one that we
just celebrated the sixtieth anniversary for last week. I'm saying
that they codified what we always feared. That case shouldn't
have even gone to the Supreme court right, if we
could have prevented it. The idea that we don't need
voting rights preclearance protection just because we have a black
(30:18):
president was the beginning of a demise for us that
I think we're hardly ready to fight the trojan horse.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Okay, and Obama didn't mean to be the trojan horse,
by the way, he was not voluntarily the trojan horse.
But basically, white people said, if we can elect the
black president, we don't need preclearance. We don't need Alabama, Florida,
Georgia to have to have their stuff approved by some
judge district. Right.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
It's a huge problem, Angela.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I think we agree here. I don't think there is real.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I agree now, But at first, when you were saying
we still need these commissions, I'm like, House, What.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
No, all I'm saying is is I don't think right
now in this war is the time to do baited Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
I guess maybe so. But here's what I do know.
So Tiff, don't swing on nobody else. We got to
be out.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
So let's go ahead and pause this til next time.
Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
This is I don't know how many parts of this
we're going to do we are at war. We are
very clear about the assignment.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
We understand it.
Speaker 5 (31:18):
Make sure you tune into Native Lampod every week to
get your marching orders.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
Okay, ready to get ready.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Native Lampod is a production of iHeart Radio in partnership
with Reison Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome home. Y'all. My name is Chris and I am
a fifth grade teacher here in Atlanta and Asucacy. My
classroom is very it's a problem America has a problem
feature in Beyonce and my creative flag that I did
with actual you can't zoom in, but with actual people
(00:30):
inside of the stars and my HBC wall. Nonetheless, my
question is is it overzealous of me to think or
believe that every time, or to believe that once we
hit the age of eighteen we should be automatically registered
to vote and kind of get rid of this. People
don't vote because they don't register, and just go ahead
(00:52):
and give them the automatic right. Why are we making
people register to vote and putting them through the ringer
when we know they exist, The government knows you're eighteen,
Now just give you the automatic right to vote. Is
that over zealous? Maybe so, but just give me your opinion.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Thank you so much, Christian.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I believe being a teacher.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yes, we are very very grateful for your question. You
know we are.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
I believe voting rights advocates on the show, I certain
believe in compulsory registration and so many other ways to
ensure that people feel compelled to participate. We've been spending
a lot of time talking about redistricting on our shows,
Tiff and Andrew, and I wanted to get into well,
(01:40):
welcome to opinions, dicey right now, welcome to what we
jumping right in.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Yeah, so that's.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Something he can advocate. By the way, in his own state,
each step you can determine how they conduct registration.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Right exactly, so he can advocate that for advocate for
that in the state of Georgia. And I was just
going to point that out Andrew, that it is a
state right, like how elections are run. That is actually
a step for now, that is a state issue, so
he should be participating in that. And because he's from Atlanta,
he's going to give a shout out to Latasha Brown
and Black Voters Matter because they may be pursuing something
(02:16):
like that already, or just so he doesn't feel like
he has to be overwhelmed with that. He can join
forces with other organizations who may already be pursuing And
thank you for the question.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Yeah, So, speaking of there's a measure last Congress called
the Freedom to Vote Act, and one of the pieces
in the bill called for a national automatic voter registration,
which twenty two states in DC already have to the
(02:50):
point that Tiff and Andrew were just raising about what
states do. But there is a pre Souden bill that's
been getting a lot of attention lady lately for some challenges,
and that's around these independent redistricting commissions. But before we
get there, I know TIF had a story of violence,
and perhaps that will keep you watching a little bit longer.
(03:12):
So I don't know if we tease the violence now,
we get to it later.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I haven't wanted to tell it a story, and I
was decided on if I would tell it or not,
and today I just felt compelled to tell it. And
I will give a shout out because the state red Buck,
that's the that is the name of a many time,
I think because.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I they a teaser.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Okay, So I on occasion do Abby Phillips show on CNN,
and look, we have our opinions about how things progress
and transpire on the show. It is supposed to be
a show for ideological debate and it often devolves into
(03:57):
mudslinging at times, and you know, it's it can be challenging.
And so you say you said the times, Yeah, it's yes.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
One thing Andrew gonna do is play a flave. That's
one thing he gonna do.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It was conversation on well it's fine.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
So I was.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I appeared on Abby Show with this woman Brooke. I
forget her last name. I think it's a Goldstein gold Stegn.
I can't remember. But so we have like very intense
discussions and during the commercial break, I don't When I
arrived at the studio, I don't I don't engage. I'm
not in the green room with everybody. I can't make
small talk with people whose beliefs I find abhorrent. I
(04:45):
don't really give a ship where your kids are thinking
about going to college. I don't care what you did
this weekend. I don't want to hear about your summer plans,
summer vacation plans. I walk it like I talk it.
You know, I believe that, and I believe that everybody
on this podcast is probably the same way. We're very
similarly situated that way, And so I don't make small
talk during the commercial breaks either, like we can keep
(05:05):
our conversations on air, and I try to normalize having
a very intelligent response, even in the face of insults,
to not get in the mud with people. And I failed.
I failed at that, and I'll tell you why. So
I was on with this woman and we were Abby
showed several really disturbing clips of starving children in Gaza
(05:29):
and you saw a child die, this ten year old
girl who was just skin and bones, but it was
you know, she's one of thousands. Unfortunately, it was really heartbreaking.
And this woman was on the show, who she said,
you know why, is basically trying to defend She's like,
this is all Harmas's fault. And if you know, the
(05:53):
food workers work with Harmas, and Hamas shows children with
genetic diseases who looked that way anyway without starvation, and
I just lost it. I mean, I just couldn't, you know,
let her keep saying that kind of misinformation platforming somebody
like that. I mean, I you know that I'm not
in the business to say who comes on what shows anymore,
(06:17):
but I just had a real issue with her saying
something that's demonstrably false. So I interrupt her, and I
start talking about actual facts and data coming out of Gaza,
and I'm saying, you know, this is horrific, and who
could possibly look at this footage and say something about
hamas like the only thing a human being could see
(06:40):
as a starving child. So that is where our focus
should be. So she says, are you trying to say
I don't care about starving children? And I said, well,
it certainly doesn't sound like it. So during the commercial break,
this is where things went left. And pray for her
that I was on the panel that night and not
either of my co host particularly into a She turns
(07:04):
to me and puts her hands on me, puts her
hands on my shoulder and has her fingers like this
close to my face and is like, honey, do not
say that I don't care about starving children. So already
my blood is boiling. But I'm trying to contain myself
because to me, I feel like this is violence. You're
touching me without my permission, and you have your fingers
(07:26):
a little too close to my face for comfort, and
so I say, get your hands off me, do not
touch me, and move your fingers from my face. I
move her fingers out of my face. And she says,
you're saying I don't care about starving children. She's going
on and on, and I was like, you are complicit
in what's happening. You are intentionally stating things that are
(07:47):
not facts, and shame on you. And she is escalating,
and she says you.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
In my best self, I would have flown so above that.
I would have just been like, wow, like what a
you know, immature person that you can't contain your emotions
that way? Like how immature and silly? And you look
stupid and ignorant. And you will not you will not
take my dignity. Sadly, that is not what happened, and
(08:17):
I lose it. So now I'm saying you and we
are yelling at each other, and I'm seriously sitting there
thinking I am about to get into a fistfight with
this woman. She is unhinged. And so people were getting
their makeup, and so at this point the panel was
paying attention to us because now we're yelling and she
keeps talking to me, and I'm like, the child with
(08:38):
the bad attitude is still talking. You need to direct
your conversation elsewhere. They had to come escorter off the
set after the show and all of that, but I
just felt so, you know, I'm like, I don't need
to be I'm a professional, grown ass woman. I don't
conduct myself that way. I certainly don't take pride in
yelling and cursing at somebody on set. I've always tried
(08:58):
to maintain my dignity in the most challenging of moments,
and I failed myself at that time. But also because
her husband was in the studio for some reason, I'm like,
I don't even understand why he in the studio it was,
And then she started complaining, saying, oh my gosh, she's
so unprofessional. She's trying to talk to Abby and the producers.
She's sitting here yelling at me and cursing, And I thought, oh,
this is a liar, because now you're saying I'm the
(09:20):
person who said you and everybody's like, okay, you guys, okay,
you guys, calmed down, And it just made me so upset,
And I know, like, doing this show is challenging at times.
There's a reason why I do the show, but doing
this show is challenging at times, and I just wanted
to tell y'all what happened. I told y'all a quick
version of what happened we were on the call, but
now I'm telling the viewers and everybody what happened. I
(09:43):
don't know how y'all would handle that situation. I don't
like it.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I won't ever appear with her again.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well because I if I strike first, you know, then
it is a problem. But I was in that space
where it's like we are not having a debate anymore.
Now we're just two women with a problem with each other,
and I'm going to proceed accordingly. And you know how
it is. There's me and this white woman who's already lied,
you know, who's already playing a victim. Anyway, I was
(10:12):
just pissed off about the whole thing, you know. Anyway,
I just wanted to share the story.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I'm proud of you.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Well, what would you have done?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Andrew's hard for you because you're a black man, so
it's harder to engage that.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, clearly we could. We wouldn't have been able to
escalate that way. But similar to you, I didn't talk
to people. We didn't have key ki ki.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And in the green rooms about the kind of inhumane
shit you thought and said about me when we were
in front of the camera, and then after it's just
like and how old are your kids? Now? I'm like,
I'm not talking to you about my children, right, Like,
that's we're entitled to that. We're not friends, and we're
also this is not for play, Okay, what you just
(10:53):
set up there is going to cost somebody something, right
There are people, whole communities and people who are going
to be looked at different circumspect because it's some shit
you just made public publicly acceptable. You created a permission
structure for a certain set of things to now transpire.
And that's what this woman did by ignoring her own
(11:13):
humanity and basically saying, oh no, it's sill, just people
who are stopping them. Who sees a starving child and
doesn't have a heart for that, right, I'm just surprised
that she that she can look.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
She felt comfortable that that was my problem.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You feel comfortable enough putting your fingers in my face
and your hands on me, And it wasn't. I don't
think it was handle the way that it should have
been handled. But I don't know. I just I think
this is something that happened on the TV set but
I'm also thinking about confrontations that happen every day, and
as black people, we got about point five seconds to decide.
(11:47):
Am I going to rise above it and make you
feel this big like I'm just ignoring you. I don't
even see you, I don't hear you, or am I
gonna go spider monkey on your ass? So you know
I am not the one. And it's a challenging sing
situation for us to be in, regardless it's on the
TV set or not. It's just regardless if you could
be at the airport and at a rest or any
point where they feel deputized that they could one touch you,
(12:09):
to speak to you any kind of way, and three
insert themselves in something where they really shouldn't even be
addressing us.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So that's why if you say it's a TV set,
but that makes it all the more unusual. Right when
the camera is to me, that makes it more unusual.
I think you did what you needed to do, which
is you use your words and as you are the
first to admit you have an acid as tongue when
you want. And the reason why she had to escalate
(12:36):
where she went is because she couldn't meet you there,
right she had to go to some other palace because
she couldn't meet you there. So I'll just say, like
I tell my kids, use your words, choose them, but
use your words.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Yeah, first tip.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
I hate that you have that experience because it's all
too common, and it's one I think Andrew you experience,
I experience on network, and I think having some distance
now from being a commentator for a little bit, it's
not an aspect of it that I miss at all.
In fact, we've talked about this a little bit in
passing on the show. I'm surprised about how much you've
(13:12):
gone on because when you were to. Initially, when I
was like, oh, they want us on the show, Tiff
was like, absolutely not, We're not doing that. You should
even go, And now I feel how you feel. Definitely
not that much. I remember Joy was saying when she
was starting her show, she was like, I went on
one time, and for me, even last week when they
reached out, I said, until the whole podcast is going on,
(13:33):
I'm not going. And I maintain that, and the reason
for it is I just think that, especially in this
moment in this country, we deserve to have conversations in
safe spaces, even if we disagree, right, there are some
things that should be off limits and until the space.
It's not just networks, but the spaces that we choose
(13:54):
to occupy, to be sharing a word, you know, evangelizing, share,
you know.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Share in facts.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
There are certain parameters that should be set to ensure
our physical and psychological and even emotional safety. And I
think sometimes even you know, on this show, we wrestle
with that because there's something going on for one of
us that we didn't know about. But we're always gonna
right set that because we love each other. I think
the intention has to be to tell the truth in love.
(14:20):
That in love piece is a necessary part even in disagreement.
But you don't ever like have the right to disrespect
our sister. If we see it, we're gonna call you
on it. It ain't cool. And I would require that
of people who ask us to share space with them,
especially you know, with you being so gifted.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
So I know you don't want to go on, Angela,
I would love to see you go on, And this
is my reason why I'll tell y'all offline while I
go on there. But this is my thinking because Angela is,
like y'all have seen We talked about Angela refusing these networks,
like she down like four flat tires every single time
for her friends, her crew, colleagues, all that. But my
(15:01):
thought on having all three of us on there, so
then you have one night with all NLP and then
you're done. Versus if I'm on Monday night, you have
a promo for NLP, If Angela's on Wednesday, you have
a promo for MLP. If Andrew's on Friday, you have
a promo for NLP. I know, I know, I'm just
saying if and so if Angela, if your only reason
is no because they won't have all of us, Andrew's
(15:23):
not going to go either way. I'm always happy to go.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah, as Andrew, you said you would if we all
went on today, you.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Know, I mean, i would do stuff that is of
a level, But I'm not generally going to sit down
and be on the opposite side of.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Somebody going on.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
If the three of us were going on in an
asshole just so happened to be on that day. You
said before you would go on if it was the collective, Yeah,
they wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
They wouldn't put the three of us on with the
That's not.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
What I was told, and that's the only reason why
I went on initially, and the only reason why I
asked Tip to go on initially, right, Like this is I.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Agree with Tift though I think I think, I think
it is important for your voices to be in the
mix there because the aspects of it, you know, I mean,
I feel you.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
I'm just not going to do that until there are
safety parameters. And again from a network that once paid
me for my commentary, you pay me what you owe me, right,
I'm definitely.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Not going on more recently.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
I'm not going on frequently. I'm not doing that, Like
I know what I'm worth, and I'm not going to
add to your ratings and you're not you're not reciprocating that,
especially not to put me in harm's way literally, just showing.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
You that you introduced perspectives that might otherwise not be there,
and that's why you get paid to introduce those perspectives.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
But again, and so for me, the only added benefit
of going on a network right now, from my perspective,
I'm very interested in the social experiment we're engaging in
and how we bring eyeballs to our show, and if
it's not going to be a mutually beneficial exchange.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
I'm not here for it.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
It's just my my psychological well being and safety matter
too much to me in this season in my life,
I get there especially. I mean literally, we're watching kids
pay for their lives in DC.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
And they don't create it. But the main thing is
just to be clear, I know y'all know, I know
what I want.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
The viewers.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You know, they do not pay me for my appearance
or my time at all. I go up there for free.
And that is the point Angela's making, Like if I'm
if she's gonna fly across the country and go on
this network and have to be confronted by and confront
people who spent racist ideology, disinformation, people who violate her
(17:37):
personal space, all those things. Her perspective is it needs
to be I need to benefit from it. Either A
I am a formal contributor where I'm collecting a check
so this is about my job. Or B you're gonna
have my co hosts on and all of us are
going to get a benefit out of being on there,
which I completely get that perspective. I may be back
on this week or next week, or maybe once they
(17:59):
hear this podcast never who knows, who knows, but I
will share. I will share more with you guys on
why I go on the show offline. And it's not
because I'm trying to keep something away from the viewers,
but I just I think it's relevant to the co host.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
No, I thank you again. I'd say double down, do it,
but I know how much they pay.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Well, I know.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I just want to.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Yeah, I mean, go ahead, go ahead, exactly that. And
that's that's the point. Like give tip, pay Tip what
you owe her too, because she have you been going
on every week.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
To No, I mean I would, but I just I
don't have the time commitment to do it. So maybe
once or twice a.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Month, okay, Well either way, pay her what you are.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
She's added to the ratings to Abby, we love you
sis and there.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
And I do want her to be what are we
false advertising?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
We talked about redistricting.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And we got time.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
No, I don't want to, I don't want.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
I just want you guys the weigh in on the commissions.
Because Andrew said that he thinks.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I just think we can have that fight. I don't
think it's the fight to be had right now.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Well, we'll talk about what the fight is brother.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
The fight right now is they're trying to cheat and
throw us out of the game completely, and we cannot
go quietly into that good night. Right So, I don't
want to debate whether or not you believe ideally in
commissions and whether you think they can work or not work.
I'm not actually that interested in anybody thoughts on that.
(19:41):
I'm right now interested and with the power that you
do have right now in this moment, what are you
going to do to make sure we can live to
fight another day? Because you're theoretical and you're what government
looks like and all that kind of stuff. It's all
good when we're talking about about normal times and we're
talking about we're talking about a game where everybody respects
(20:07):
the rules and abides by them. That's not where we
are right now. Right now, we have cheaters on the
other side, and so we're not trying to cheat with them.
We're just trying to level the damn field. We just
want to level it. So whatever we have to. If
you can be for commissions, you can be a spokesperson
for them. I, however, am not interested in it right now.
(20:30):
I'm not interested in your opinion on it, Your advocacy,
your good government's opinion. I'm interested in knowing, right now,
in your position, with the power that you right now have,
what are you going to do to ensure that we
can live to fight another day.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
This is the thing I think that we Okay, just
take a step back with me for a second. As
soon as Gavin Newsom talked about responding in this way
is almost an immediate release of all these other states
where these Republicans were going to go after other black
(21:06):
people who happen to be Democrats. And so what that
tells me is that this is something that has long
been planned. And to the point that Tiff said in
the main episode around DC, is that this is also
a litmus test.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
They the first.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Litmus test wasn't right now, It was in North Carolina.
As we talked about, I think that what we have
to do, say it again, is.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Not important to do now. But I debate the beginning
of this.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Okay, well, I'm saying the first time they tried it
in like the middle of it, right right, right right,
You're saying that that's also different.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
You take issue with that.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
No, no, no, I mean in this kind of orientation, I
could concede that North Carolina may have been the shot
over the bow. However, redistricting period and the way in
which the ruling majority, be they Democrat or Republican, have
approached that has always been at the sacrifice of black men,
(22:00):
voters and black representation.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Okay, I agree with that. I'm talking specifically about here
is the census, Here is the point in which you're
supposed to redistrict. We're gonna not We're no longer following
those rules. We're just going to do this in the
middle of the thing or three years into the thing.
North Carolina, I believe, was the first state. Is there
something as another state that you know?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
No, there have been other states prior to North Carolina
who have updated, quote updated their numbers or gone without
updating numbers and drawn seats from the state level, from
the local state to the federal level. There have also been,
of course, as you know, court cases which have lingered
(22:41):
on into the mid decinial.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I think that's different.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I get it, I get it, But both have existed.
We have seen efforts where and we again, I think
it's a lesser point than the point you want to make,
So I don't even want to.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Well, I think it's important if I like, if my
information is wrong, I definitely want to know. But my
understanding is North Carolina is the first state to kind
of just say in twenty three reactionally, are just going
to change this and do it in a way that
hurts black people. So if that's wrong, I want to
fix it. I'm not saying historically it's never happened, but
(23:20):
you know, leading up to VR, before we had section
five that you know with the formula in Section four
a VR of the Voting Rights Act, we don't have
that anymore. So they were stress testing. My understanding is
they were stress testing what they could get away with
since the elimination or the obliteration of Section five via
the gutting of Section four. If that's not true, I
(23:41):
will conceee the point. I just want to know what
the facts are now.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
No, no, no, will we will for the sake of
this conversation and moving forward.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
I can see the point, okay, But on this particular issue,
we have been blindsided essentially because North Carolina was a
trial and then they went after all of these other
seats and they're saying they're going to do that. So
the moment there is an equal, there's an action, there's
(24:10):
an equal reaction. There is a response from them that
they clearly have been planning for some time. There is
no plan on our side. So what the plan was
on our side is like, okay, everybody two years ago,
let's just do this fair. Let's make sure that we
have these commissions. To Congressman Thompson's point from Tunica this weekend,
it's no such thing as a bipartisan or nonpartisan commission.
(24:33):
Everybody has a leaning, even courts where they are supposed
to not be partisan at all, have a leaning of
political ideology, ideological leaning, and so it is a farce.
So the idea that we will be fair with these
independent commissions, it is not true. There's always a bias.
We saw that, we've seen it even in California. There
(24:55):
is a bias.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
There is a bias. It is less than the one
that we can get under its current structure, but it's
the bias that we tolerate. So we're basically saying, okay,
if the governor is a Democrat and the governor gets
the fifteenth appointment as the tie breaker, we know that
if it comes down to the fifteenth appoint appointee that
it's likely going to go the way of the governor
(25:19):
that appointed would be the general thinking.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't understand how
we could even possibly be having this conversation when Shelby
versus Holder was a case that went to the Supreme
Court in twenty thirteen. I don't understand how we could
possibly be having this conversation when this country just got
its first black president in two thousand and eight. I
don't understand how we could be having this conversation when
(25:44):
the country just had its first black woman nominee last year, Like,
how are we having?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
But none of that changed, None of that changed the
underlying motivations for what happens in this process. It is it.
It existed before Obama, and it has existed after.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
No, no, no, I'm talking about the Freedom to Vote Act,
pushing it to be a nationwide thing that we would
cleave to, that we would gather around, that we support
when and I didn't even get to this part yet
when after President Obama was elected. Now, voting voter id
needs to become a thing.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Now.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Early voting days need to be cut. Now, Absentee voting needs.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
To be.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Re litigated. And reviewed.
Speaker 5 (26:29):
How can we possibly be talking about the independent commissions
when we're watching states introduce bills like these.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
That's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
I just think that we often let our wishful thinking
get in the way of our reality, and when we
do that, it puts our people in harm's way VISA
v suppressive efforts at the voting boosts, VISA be having
to prove your.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Citizenship and whether or not you live in the neighborhood
you live.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Now, folks are an account provisional balance that may not
be counted if they don't get to that part.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
The we you're talking about is invisible. I don't think
that the collective, the we that we're thinking of. I
think the conversation we're having is how we could would be,
how democrats could, how how fair minded and thinking electeds
might and in this case, it would be how democrats
could even consider post Shelby any of this.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
I am not actually talking about Democrats, because I know
I am. When I say we, I'm always talking black.
So let me just let me just make sure I'm
very clear. I do not believe that people who have
constantly and continuously betrayed us will do the right thing
except for being pushed to do the right thing.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And example, I've seen mostly black legislators at the legislative
level have largely stood against these sort of utopic good
government redistricting commissions. There are some you can point out well,
But the point that I'm making is is that in
spite of that, the rules, the sacrifices that the political
(28:11):
parties have been able to make, and what loss they're
willing to endure has always been our loss, like their tolerance,
they're pain threshold. Always. Always, it's baked into the pie
that we're going to lose black representation, that there's a
likelihood that we will reduce black seats, we may even
(28:31):
obliterate them. But if we get a progressive then all
is failed.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I'm not okay with that.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Com I'm not okay with it either. I'm simply saying
that that is that's always, it's baked into the pie,
that there is no party love when it comes to that,
and I think it takes black people being the conscience
and basically saying, now, you realize that if such and
such had this seat over me, that we would be
(28:58):
negotiating against our sales on the most basic fundamental shit
that should be automatic for the people with whom I am,
I am representing and voicing for right now, right that
we know that, I know that there are people who
couldnot switch places with me as the mayor, and my
community could expect that they were going to ride as
(29:19):
hard on this, that and the third as I would.
I wouldn't risk it. All I'm saying is that largely
white liberals have tolerated the loss of what we all
know is going to be lost, which is representation and
community reflected representation. Right, they don't really care about that.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I don't they disagree. We don't disagree on that.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I think we do agree. I'm just saying there's nothing.
There's no revelation. Shelby wasn't the revelation for us to
know that. I'm saying we should have always known where
the sacrificial No.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Shelby wasn't the revelation. Shelby was the undoing, the gutting,
and then the voting rights, the very one that we
just celebrated the sixtieth anniversary for last week. I'm saying
that they codified what we always feared. That case shouldn't
have even gone to the Supreme court right, if we
could have prevented it. The idea that we don't need
voting rights preclearance protection just because we have a black
(30:18):
president was the beginning of a demise for us that
I think we're hardly ready to fight the trojan horse.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Okay, and Obama didn't mean to be the trojan horse,
by the way, he was not voluntarily the trojan horse.
But basically, white people said, if we can elect the
black president, we don't need preclearance. We don't need Alabama, Florida,
Georgia to have to have their stuff approved by some
judge district. Right.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
It's a huge problem, Angela.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I think we agree here. I don't think there is real.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I agree now, But at first, when you were saying
we still need these commissions, I'm like, House, What.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
No, all I'm saying is is I don't think right
now in this war is the time to do baited Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
I guess maybe so. But here's what I do know.
So Tiff, don't swing on nobody else. We got to
be out.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
So let's go ahead and pause this til next time.
Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
This is I don't know how many parts of this
we're going to do we are at war. We are
very clear about the assignment.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
We understand it.
Speaker 5 (31:18):
Make sure you tune into Native Lampod every week to
get your marching orders.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
Okay, ready to get ready.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Native Lampod is a production of iHeart Radio in partnership
with Reison Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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