May 27, 2024 • 26 mins
This week hosts Tiffany Cross, Angela Rye, and Andrew Gillum discuss the “N” word—who should say it and who should not?
With an eye towards history and pop culture, the hosts look at why some folks choose to use this word—and use it, and use it, and use it—while others think that not even Black folks should say it. Along with funny stories about their personal relationships with this powerful word, we’ll hear about how the NAACP gave the “N" word a funeral, and touch on the politics of the “N” word in the Kendrick v. Drake hip-hop beef.
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Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:
Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Gabrielle Collins as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
Theme music created by Daniel Laurent.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
We Nigus, Nigus.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
What is the language of.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Origin Ethio into Almaharic? What is the definition a king?
Speaker 5 (00:27):
It's used as a title of the sovereign of Ethiopia.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Nigas Vegas could use in a sentence the Nigas ruled
Ethiopia until the coup of nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
Nigus and who would you say the word loudly for
the judges?
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Nigus one more time?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Nigus, Nigus, Jesus, n e g Us, Nigus.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
My nigga, my nigga, Hey, what's up? My niggas? We
also will say nigga please.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Sometimes we might say I wish a nigga would and
then sometimes it's just nigga.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
And you all guess what we're talking about today? Are
you tying? Cringing? Say what that's please? Because this ain't
just ratchet.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
We are also teaching we have all experienced or heard
about those moments where somebody white tries to take it
too far and say the N word. And we're not
talking about like in the spelling bee niggas we're talking
about something like this. One of my favorite bits of
his is that when white people are rich, they're just
rich forever and ever, even though kids are rich.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
But when a black guy gets rich, it's count down
to one.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
He's poor, he's the blackest white guy, and then all
the negative things we think about black people.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
This fucker, you're singing a nigger. Yes, you are the
niggarous fucking.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I have ever.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
I don't think he could do that.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So you know, there are some people among us who
even make it okay for white people to say this,
but Oprah believes we shouldn't even say it.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
It's impossible for me to do it because I know
the history, and I know that for so many of
my relatives whom I don't know, who I don't know
by name, people who I am connected to my ancestors,
that was the last word they heard. They were being
strung up by a tree.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And you know, the thing that we have to also
consider is the nation's oldest civil rights organization and the largest,
the NAACP, which I will remind everyone is the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People, also agrees with
lady Oh and even tried to bury the N word
in two thousand and seven and gave it a whole funeral.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
We're not going to do this in workstance anymore. It's
time to stop. And we hope that our rappers, our media,
or the movie theaters, all of that, Hollywood, all of
us see what we're trying to do, and it's time
that we make it change.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
It's time that we decide and what we want and
demand it because nothing is going to be given it
to us unless we get out here and let the
world know this is not acceptable.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Well that was in two thousand and seven.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And before we cut to any more sound, I just
want to ask my co host how long they think
the N word stayed dead or did it ever die?
Speaker 8 (03:41):
It never died, They never died. That was kind of
a ridiculous stunt. I think you know it never died.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
I think that you do.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
I think it was more than a stunt. I think
I think for a certain generation of Black Americans, this
thing cuts really deep. Live at a time where our parents.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Could have, for you know, foreseeably had to exist through.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
That term being used as a bludgeon tool right to
level them to make them feel small, to make them
feel less than. And then comes the advent of you know,
mostly rap hip hop, where it had a renaissance, if
you will, and not just not a renaissance in its
original fashion, but a renaissance in the sense that it was.
(04:34):
This is a word that was used to demean, to hurt,
to cut deep, to the red meat, and we're gonna
take it, reform it, and put it back out there as.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
A word of our.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Own choosing, with a meaning of our own choosing, and
the rest would be history. And I think we now
find ourselves at a place where there's generational device between
how people walk away with a sentiment after they hear
that word my mother, my mother in law, my aunt's
uncles is not a word you want to say around
any of them.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
There there was also this debate around I'm gonna come
to you tube, But there's also been a long standing
debate around if there's a difference between the E R
and the A of course right, And I just I
think that's another thing, like which word, which version of
the word did we actually bury in two thousand and seven.
I think that's also a distinction word noting. But I
want to hear it, you guy.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Say geographically though, you can be in the South and
here a white person say nikkir yeah, and it be
intended with the same venom.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
I don't care.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I'm just saying.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Any vow they ended with, they can't say it.
Speaker 8 (05:44):
But well, I completely disagree with you about the generational thing.
I think, you know, we maybe look outside of our
own immediate experience in family members. My every generation, I know,
and my my parents said the word. My grandparents said
the word, you know, So it's not necessary generational. Even now,
there are people who say the word and people who don't.
People have strong opinions about it. I also kind of
(06:05):
take issue with this idea that is rooted in white supremacy.
The word originated from the Spanish word, you know, and
the Spaniards that's how they describe black people. It wasn't
even meant to be a slur at that point. It
was just this is what we no more than you
would call the Japanese. They called them Japanese, you know,
when the Portuguese and the European set sell to Japan.
(06:28):
So what white people then co opted the word. They
didn't even invent it. They co opted the word and
along with many other things, they used it as a
slur at that point. And so I don't choose my
I don't center them in any point in my life.
I don't center them in the language I use. I
don't center them in when I say it, how I
say it. I do think it is a word meant
(06:49):
to be said privately. I am uncomfortable. We have some
mutual friends who will say it in front of non
black people, and I do think this is a family
conversation and family talks. I don't like for myself and
personally for us to say it in mixed company. But
in terms of it being a word that said in
gin pop and the population, I say say it if
you want to, and I don't. I don't mean to
(07:09):
be dismissive of bearing the word, but I think I
think that was like in the early two thousands, that
or late ninety yeah, two thousand and seven when that happened,
Of all the things that was going on during that time,
I don't think that bearing the in word and imposing
your you know, narrow view on it was the most
the best use of time and resources, but that you use.
Speaker 6 (07:29):
The word your narrow view, which I received as a pejorative,
not your narrow no no, no no, but your narrow
view being the people who wanted to bury it had
had a definition of what it meant to them. And
I have to say that the majority understanding of that word,
(07:49):
regardless regardless of his Spanish origin, which has to do
with the fact that that's the color, right.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
So, but nowhere.
Speaker 6 (08:01):
Did nigger get its definition from.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Simply the color black?
Speaker 6 (08:07):
That it was always from its very beginnings, from its origins,
as it relates to its application to us used as
a pejorative, as an insult, as a weapon as well.
Speaker 8 (08:18):
It wasn't by white people, and it wasn't the Spanish, yes,
but it was actually the Latin word, not negatal, but niger.
It wasn't even a patrol like the people who made
it one were white people here in America. They made
it one, right, so they sole the word and turned
it into something ugly.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
They bastardized it.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Is what your argument is, and my argument is is
that regardless of its little known, little regarded origins, except
for a particular country and maybe region of the world,
by and large, the definition under which we understand it
has a pejorative meaning and a diminutive one toward us,
(09:01):
toward toward black folk people of color, and if I
ever understood it being spoken by them as a term
of endearment toward me, I can't think of them.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
No, I can't. No, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I don't think anybody's arguing that at all. I actually
think that that you all aren't saying something too different.
I think she's saying the Latin term. Yeah, it was
one meaning, and then when white folks enslaved us, stole us,
brought us here, they took it to mean something completely
(09:33):
horrible and awful, like brute and wench.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
I think that before we get to be adopted across
the globe, French parliamentarians began to use.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
The words as it relates to what happened here and
along the Transatlantic slave trade to define and talk about
black people. But when we bring it up to modern times,
I do think it's important, whether it's a bad experience
or a positive experience. What you all's earliest memories of
(10:04):
the N word were or memory?
Speaker 5 (10:07):
Hmmm, I didn't know, if y'all need to think.
Speaker 8 (10:11):
I'm pretty sure it was comedy, probably SNL I remember
on because it didn't used to be a word that
you couldn't say on TV. The Jeffersons, you know, I
actually do remember The Jefferson's, an episode of The Jefferson's
because it was something that was said on television. That's
how common the word was. So it wasn't hip hop
that resurfaced it like it was. It's always been here,
(10:32):
even in music. Andrew, you know, like the war and
you think of, you know, Mom's Maybley, fact check me
on Mom's Maybley. But Millie Jackson, you know, like there's
always every generation. I think I remember there was an
episode of The Jeffersons. It was a rerun and they
George Jefferson was it was the overlap between them and
(10:53):
Archie Bunker, and George Jefferson was saying, you know, they
wanted him to hire Edith to work at his dry
cleaning business, and he said.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
If we do.
Speaker 8 (11:01):
Something like the niggas that think she uh, the white
folks that think she a nigga, and the niggas that
think we bleeds.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
The help, Oh my god.
Speaker 8 (11:10):
But this was the thing with the dialogue with George Jefferson,
and he used to also when he you know, they
became they were spin off and when they had their own.
He used to always call the guy was her name's husband.
He's called him Hounky all the time. And the white
man was a backlom Were you call me that? What
if I called you nigga? And it's like I wish
you would?
Speaker 6 (11:28):
And they blew up when he said that in the show, right,
like the responses from the audience.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
It wasn't though the thing.
Speaker 8 (11:35):
It was so because they said it all the time.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
So I take a slight exception with the familiarity and
the usage of the word in the in the late
seventies early eighties, those were shows done by Norman Lear,
and Norman was credited across, you know, really across platforms,
regardless of who the critic is, as using humor as
a way to put a mirror up to the American people. Yeah,
(11:59):
into Archie Bunker, sitting on the couch and and and
and using terminology that everyone could laugh with because it
was such an obvious characteristic of who he was, and
therefore who somebody's who one person's grandfather, you know, he
(12:20):
reminded him of about his grandfather, George Jefferson reminded us
at least of an aspirational view of what we might
do or be like if we were ever to.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Come into wealth.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
And I didn't know anybody who had moved on up
and that and and and and that way, and so
it was in many ways aspirational, but it wasn't ubiquitous
across television the usage of it. That's what made his
work so noteworthy and exceptional, is that it was so
rare and he used so this is mirroring technique as
(12:52):
a way to to ease the conversation and make it
more comfortable and not a third rail.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So but I'm this and I do want you to
reflect on your earliest memory of this, But I just
mine kind of dovetails with tiff. I remember my parents
listening to Richard Pryor records and he said it all
the time, and he said it with they are all
the time, and my parents like, I'm gonna get in trouble, Mom,
don't get mad.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
It's the truth. My mom and my dad, sisters she
didn't like you would go him that like.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I don't, I mean, or even if they were joking,
like she would be like listen and they would fall
out laughing. So like I associated the N word for
a long time just with comedic moments like I didn't
know that you couldn't say it. For example, on my
first Communion day because I was I was baptized Catholic hair.
First Communia had first repentance or whatever it's called. Ain't
(13:46):
called first repents now I'm pentecosta.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
I don't know what the other world was called.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Anyway, we had to go see the priests and you
tell them what you did wrong. Anyway, Yes, whatever it is,
but it was, it's a name for it, first reconciliation.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
That's the first Communion day. I had a cat. We
had all the family over the house.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
This is my dad's fault. Yeah, all the family over
the house and I couldn't get to the cat. We
had the elders at the house too, and I said,
come here, you little bastard. I did not know, just
like with the N word, that bastard was a bad word.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
My dad said it all the time. And this is
my point. I was My dad and my mom was
were mortified, but like I was, like, how was I
supposed to know? You guys said all the time. Then
they were more mortified.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But my point is, I feel like it's not that
different with the inWORD for me from my experience growing up,
of course, with the black history parents I got.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
You learn quickly after that, right.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
That I think, you know, I'm thinking, I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
I grew up a lot of my younger years in
my grandmother's household, and they were much older than my
dad's grandparents, my grandparents when I was growing up. My
mom's parents were in their seventies eighties, but a very
religious Pentecostal household, and my memory I have very clearly
as my grandmother, I mean just backhanding one of my brothers,
(14:57):
my second oldest brother, who used the word in the
house house and it was as it was as close
to blasphemy as you could come like, and my grandmother's
as we couldn't play I declare war because cards were
of the devil.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
They were not supposed to be in the house.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
So I think in some ways we do have slightly
different experiences because of in the ways in which we
were reared and where and so on and so forth.
So I do in some ways think there's a generational element.
But I also think there has always been, at least
amongst us, a familiarity with the word in some sub
ownership of it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, that didn't mean.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
What the pejorative intended, right, Sure, the pejorative definition of
it was. But my honest thought is that I have
used it and use it with friends and close company,
and we almost never have necessarily positive you know. It's
like you did something, you know, messed up, and now
(15:54):
you or you've done so. But it's in love, it's
in care of each other.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
But said, it's an accountability where all right, y'all, we're
going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
I'm about to mess all up a little bit. And
that is growing up in Seattle. It's very multicultural, and
(16:22):
there's some constituencies in Seattle, like at least high school,
middle school for me, that grew up so closely with us,
particularly a lot of Filipino kids who said the N
word and we didn't think anything of it. In New York,
you'll see a lot of times Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, and
of course we know that slave ship stopped in different.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Period.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
They could be, but they also might not be. They
could be indigenous, right or.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Have someone in there.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
There's a distinction, right right, But.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I'm saying like there's some of that and people are
coming and I'm like, you're right, I'm a whole hypocrite there.
But there is one thing that I want to point
out here, and that is that some rappers, including Politzer
Prize winning Kendrick Lamar, disagree with Lady Oh, disagree with
Berry in the in word, disagree with your grandma got
black Andrew but white. Andrew at the beginning of the
episode spelled it out, and of course Kendrick is.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
On that same thing.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
He said with royalty and that's how he would like
to remix and reinterpret the N word.
Speaker 8 (17:19):
Yeah, And I think that's why I was saying, it's
a narrow perspective to bury it. I think if you
choose not to say it, then don't say it. But
it's just a crazy thing to me that somebody within
community would tell. I mean, I'm a big live and
let live person. It's like, but it offend you, then
don't say it? Yeah, you know, but don't tell me
because we're in the same community. So within our community,
(17:42):
I respect your understanding of the word and how it
impacts you, but respect mine. And I think that's the
what we have to to show up as I think
the question of who gets to say it. You know,
j Lo got in a lot of trouble when she
did the song with Jah Rule, and you know, she's
Puerto Rican from the Bronx, and I know people feel
(18:03):
a way about her now. But she had that song
with y'all Rule and she was saying, I tell them
niggas mind their business, but they don't hear me though,
and people outside the.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Tri State were like, whoa what? You don't get to
say that.
Speaker 8 (18:13):
So I think the question of who gets to say
it and how it's received even that, I couldn't imagine
telling somebody like you shouldn't be offended, or you should
be offended if you offended didn't say it some people.
I think Mariah Carey was asked about it, like would
she say the word? And Maria Carey identifies herself as black,
so she feels like, yes, I can say this. She's
white presenting when she first came out and we didn't
(18:34):
know a lot about Mariah Carey, people felt the way
about that answer, So I don't know. I think if
everybody would do what they want to do and mind
your business about what other people want to do and
get to the real important things that are happening in
our community outside who gets to say the inn word?
I think that's better, But do I get own it?
Conversation own?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Do we own the in word? Yes, we own nigga.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
So when you say get like, mind your business, you're
talking about mind the community?
Speaker 5 (19:00):
These business are you saying mind your business now? But
that's for community people. You're specifying all talking about No, no.
Speaker 8 (19:10):
No, no, no, all of this is in community. I
censor us at everything. Can I play the Tanahase?
Speaker 5 (19:18):
I was, yeah, I wanted to say this to Andrew.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I don't know if you wanted to weigh in here,
but I think that there is an intense fascination with
who can say the in word, and us consistently being
interrogated about who can say the in word?
Speaker 5 (19:35):
And yeah, so took that question.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
Tanahase was asked by a student and she was saying,
she doesn't say it, and there are like, you know,
these hip hop songs and people say it, and she
wanted his opinion on white people saying this word, and
he gave her an answer that I thought was pretty
brilliant and summed up how I feel.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Listen, shit, when you're white in this country, you're taught
that everything belongs to you. Do you think you have
a right to everything? You got a right to go
with you? I mean in your condition this way. It's
not you know, because you you know your hair is
a texture or your skin is light. It's the fact
that the laws in the culture tell you this. You
(20:18):
got a right to go where you want to go,
do what you want to do. Be however, and people
just got to accommodate themselves to you. So here comes
this word that you know, you feel like you invented,
and now somebody will tell you how to use a
word that you invented. You know, why can't I use it?
Everyone else gets to use it? You know what. That's
(20:39):
racism that I don't get to use it. You know
that's racist against me. You know, I have to inconvenience
to myself and to hear this song, and I can't
sing along. How Come I can't sing along?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
And I think, you know, for white people, I think
the experience of being a hip hop fan and not
being able to use the word nigga's actually very very insightful.
It will give you just a little peak into.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
The world of what it means to be black.
Speaker 8 (21:10):
I think he summed it up perfectly, so perfectly. I
don't even have anything else to add to.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Well, Mike drop moment from tanahasty but before we drop
it all the way word what I say, he gets,
So it's Tana hot for a lot because you're not
the only one Tana sea coat. Since how you say it,
ta ha se definitely not trying to n word brother today,
but I was gonna say no, no, no, yes, why
can't I use it? So speaking of who can't use it, though,
(21:36):
we are clear that we don't think white folks should
be able to. But Kendrick Lamar on one of his
disc tracks recently, Euphoria, he said he don't like when
Drake said it. He said, we don't want to hear
you say nigga, no my, and it was weird. I
think the query really is is it because he's biracial?
Is it because he's Canadian? Is it because he's corny?
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Just because like I think you feel no, no, no,
no no, I'm just asking the question.
Speaker 8 (22:05):
Well, how do you feel about Drake saying it?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I don't care about Drake saying it. I think I
think one of the things that's remarkable there was a
and I didn't cut it for this because it was
too long. It was so interesting a YouTube series where
black folks sit with Africans and African Americans sit with
Africans and they ask the question on if they say
(22:28):
nigga and why, And for some people they think it
is a unique experience for Black Americans to be able
to say this word, to have ownership over this word,
and not black people throughout the diaspora.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
That is not my perspective on it, because I think
black folks who.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Were coming from the continent here were called that, you know,
and whatever it is, whatever we can own and do own,
I'm good with that. Whether that's land, whether it's the
word nigga, whether it's money, whether whatever it is the
highest office of the land, I'm good with that. I
just think that it really taps into the perception on
Drake's psyche, and that is what he was calling attention to.
(23:08):
There are people who are black appearing, are black adjacent,
and they get to do things with us like us,
even when they don't care about us. And I think
that was really the question. I don't even think it
was so much about Drake as it was like people like.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
You, Yeah, you know, I don't even honestly, I don't
care at all about white people's thoughts on the word nigga.
Like it's just I just don't center that perspective.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
I was talking about Kendrick could Drake No.
Speaker 8 (23:35):
But when you were talking about the YouTube video that
you wanted to play about these white kids asking each
other like how they feel about it?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
No, I'm sorry, I said black Americans and Africans.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
I thought you were saying white black America.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
Okay, that changes it.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Yeah, no, I'm you answer it, my man. I thought
you were saying it with a bunch of white hem No, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
No, no no.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
This was literally Africans from the contine, like, yes, this
woman was born here, but her parents are from Nigeria.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
It is you know, and black Americans.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
And I was saying, do black people throughout the diaspora
on this word or is it a Black American owned word?
And I was saying, I don't have an opinion on that.
I don't care when we were the other because we
were all impacted by that.
Speaker 8 (24:14):
Hip hop has taken it to the continent for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Oh yeah, but also the slave ship that went there
first ticket to the you know what I'm saying, Like
we were called that.
Speaker 8 (24:21):
But that was the I think the slur, I mean,
the way yeah has taken it there, Yeah Yeah, what's
your prior records?
Speaker 6 (24:29):
I do think as we I think early in the
conversation we said that there are very, very important and
vexing things to the community. The language piece, I think
we've pushed past. There was a heated moment of it
right in the nineties, largely in competition and in contrast
to what was happening and the growth of hip hop
and the popularity of hip hop, which transcended just black
(24:51):
fans and it became highly popular concerts attended by majority
white audiences, so on and so forth, made this into
a heated tenor.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
But I think the waves have calmed a little bit.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
I kind of feel like if I got out of
the head games between Kendrick and Drake on that what
Kendrick might have been referring to is there is a
unique Black American, black Southern American relationship with the word
and not only is this brother not black Southern or
have that experiences similar to what Obama faced about not
(25:27):
being black enough. He was not bought up in the
traditional black American experience.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
He was in Greg's daddy from Memphis.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
That may be the case. He was born and reared
in Canada.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Yeah, I just was telling you that. Yeah, so some
of that is at play. I hear this. I think
that we might need to consider a part too.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
But I think one of the things that we should
not to close this is dear white people, we don't
want to hear you say nigga, No more, y'all.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Can bury it. Carry on.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Welcome home, y'all, Welcome, Thanks for listening.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Remember to rate, review, subscribe, and tune into our regular
episodes every Thursday.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Welcome Home.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reasoned Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
We Nigus, Nigus.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
What is the language of.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Origin Ethio into Almaharic? What is the definition a king?
Speaker 5 (00:27):
It's used as a title of the sovereign of Ethiopia.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Nigas Vegas could use in a sentence the Nigas ruled
Ethiopia until the coup of nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
Nigus and who would you say the word loudly for
the judges?
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Nigus one more time?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Nigus, Nigus, Jesus, n e g Us, Nigus.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
My nigga, my nigga, Hey, what's up? My niggas? We
also will say nigga please.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Sometimes we might say I wish a nigga would and
then sometimes it's just nigga.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
And you all guess what we're talking about today? Are
you tying? Cringing? Say what that's please? Because this ain't
just ratchet.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
We are also teaching we have all experienced or heard
about those moments where somebody white tries to take it
too far and say the N word. And we're not
talking about like in the spelling bee niggas we're talking
about something like this. One of my favorite bits of
his is that when white people are rich, they're just
rich forever and ever, even though kids are rich.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
But when a black guy gets rich, it's count down
to one.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
He's poor, he's the blackest white guy, and then all
the negative things we think about black people.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
This fucker, you're singing a nigger. Yes, you are the
niggarous fucking.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I have ever.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
I don't think he could do that.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So you know, there are some people among us who
even make it okay for white people to say this,
but Oprah believes we shouldn't even say it.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
It's impossible for me to do it because I know
the history, and I know that for so many of
my relatives whom I don't know, who I don't know
by name, people who I am connected to my ancestors,
that was the last word they heard. They were being
strung up by a tree.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And you know, the thing that we have to also
consider is the nation's oldest civil rights organization and the largest,
the NAACP, which I will remind everyone is the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People, also agrees with
lady Oh and even tried to bury the N word
in two thousand and seven and gave it a whole funeral.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
We're not going to do this in workstance anymore. It's
time to stop. And we hope that our rappers, our media,
or the movie theaters, all of that, Hollywood, all of
us see what we're trying to do, and it's time
that we make it change.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
It's time that we decide and what we want and
demand it because nothing is going to be given it
to us unless we get out here and let the
world know this is not acceptable.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Well that was in two thousand and seven.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And before we cut to any more sound, I just
want to ask my co host how long they think
the N word stayed dead or did it ever die?
Speaker 8 (03:41):
It never died, They never died. That was kind of
a ridiculous stunt. I think you know it never died.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
I think that you do.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
I think it was more than a stunt. I think
I think for a certain generation of Black Americans, this
thing cuts really deep. Live at a time where our parents.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Could have, for you know, foreseeably had to exist through.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
That term being used as a bludgeon tool right to
level them to make them feel small, to make them
feel less than. And then comes the advent of you know,
mostly rap hip hop, where it had a renaissance, if
you will, and not just not a renaissance in its
original fashion, but a renaissance in the sense that it was.
(04:34):
This is a word that was used to demean, to hurt,
to cut deep, to the red meat, and we're gonna
take it, reform it, and put it back out there as.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
A word of our.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Own choosing, with a meaning of our own choosing, and
the rest would be history. And I think we now
find ourselves at a place where there's generational device between
how people walk away with a sentiment after they hear
that word my mother, my mother in law, my aunt's
uncles is not a word you want to say around
any of them.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
There there was also this debate around I'm gonna come
to you tube, But there's also been a long standing
debate around if there's a difference between the E R
and the A of course right, And I just I
think that's another thing, like which word, which version of
the word did we actually bury in two thousand and seven.
I think that's also a distinction word noting. But I
want to hear it, you guy.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Say geographically though, you can be in the South and
here a white person say nikkir yeah, and it be
intended with the same venom.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
I don't care.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I'm just saying.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Any vow they ended with, they can't say it.
Speaker 8 (05:44):
But well, I completely disagree with you about the generational thing.
I think, you know, we maybe look outside of our
own immediate experience in family members. My every generation, I know,
and my my parents said the word. My grandparents said
the word, you know, So it's not necessary generational. Even now,
there are people who say the word and people who don't.
People have strong opinions about it. I also kind of
(06:05):
take issue with this idea that is rooted in white supremacy.
The word originated from the Spanish word, you know, and
the Spaniards that's how they describe black people. It wasn't
even meant to be a slur at that point. It
was just this is what we no more than you
would call the Japanese. They called them Japanese, you know,
when the Portuguese and the European set sell to Japan.
(06:28):
So what white people then co opted the word. They
didn't even invent it. They co opted the word and
along with many other things, they used it as a
slur at that point. And so I don't choose my
I don't center them in any point in my life.
I don't center them in the language I use. I
don't center them in when I say it, how I
say it. I do think it is a word meant
(06:49):
to be said privately. I am uncomfortable. We have some
mutual friends who will say it in front of non
black people, and I do think this is a family
conversation and family talks. I don't like for myself and
personally for us to say it in mixed company. But
in terms of it being a word that said in
gin pop and the population, I say say it if
you want to, and I don't. I don't mean to
(07:09):
be dismissive of bearing the word, but I think I
think that was like in the early two thousands, that
or late ninety yeah, two thousand and seven when that happened,
Of all the things that was going on during that time,
I don't think that bearing the in word and imposing
your you know, narrow view on it was the most
the best use of time and resources, but that you use.
Speaker 6 (07:29):
The word your narrow view, which I received as a pejorative,
not your narrow no no, no no, but your narrow
view being the people who wanted to bury it had
had a definition of what it meant to them. And
I have to say that the majority understanding of that word,
(07:49):
regardless regardless of his Spanish origin, which has to do
with the fact that that's the color, right.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
So, but nowhere.
Speaker 6 (08:01):
Did nigger get its definition from.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Simply the color black?
Speaker 6 (08:07):
That it was always from its very beginnings, from its origins,
as it relates to its application to us used as
a pejorative, as an insult, as a weapon as well.
Speaker 8 (08:18):
It wasn't by white people, and it wasn't the Spanish, yes,
but it was actually the Latin word, not negatal, but niger.
It wasn't even a patrol like the people who made
it one were white people here in America. They made
it one, right, so they sole the word and turned
it into something ugly.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
They bastardized it.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Is what your argument is, and my argument is is
that regardless of its little known, little regarded origins, except
for a particular country and maybe region of the world,
by and large, the definition under which we understand it
has a pejorative meaning and a diminutive one toward us,
(09:01):
toward toward black folk people of color, and if I
ever understood it being spoken by them as a term
of endearment toward me, I can't think of them.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
No, I can't. No, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I don't think anybody's arguing that at all. I actually
think that that you all aren't saying something too different.
I think she's saying the Latin term. Yeah, it was
one meaning, and then when white folks enslaved us, stole us,
brought us here, they took it to mean something completely
(09:33):
horrible and awful, like brute and wench.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
I think that before we get to be adopted across
the globe, French parliamentarians began to use.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
The words as it relates to what happened here and
along the Transatlantic slave trade to define and talk about
black people. But when we bring it up to modern times,
I do think it's important, whether it's a bad experience
or a positive experience. What you all's earliest memories of
(10:04):
the N word were or memory?
Speaker 5 (10:07):
Hmmm, I didn't know, if y'all need to think.
Speaker 8 (10:11):
I'm pretty sure it was comedy, probably SNL I remember
on because it didn't used to be a word that
you couldn't say on TV. The Jeffersons, you know, I
actually do remember The Jefferson's, an episode of The Jefferson's
because it was something that was said on television. That's
how common the word was. So it wasn't hip hop
that resurfaced it like it was. It's always been here,
(10:32):
even in music. Andrew, you know, like the war and
you think of, you know, Mom's Maybley, fact check me
on Mom's Maybley. But Millie Jackson, you know, like there's
always every generation. I think I remember there was an
episode of The Jeffersons. It was a rerun and they
George Jefferson was it was the overlap between them and
(10:53):
Archie Bunker, and George Jefferson was saying, you know, they
wanted him to hire Edith to work at his dry
cleaning business, and he said.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
If we do.
Speaker 8 (11:01):
Something like the niggas that think she uh, the white
folks that think she a nigga, and the niggas that
think we bleeds.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
The help, Oh my god.
Speaker 8 (11:10):
But this was the thing with the dialogue with George Jefferson,
and he used to also when he you know, they
became they were spin off and when they had their own.
He used to always call the guy was her name's husband.
He's called him Hounky all the time. And the white
man was a backlom Were you call me that? What
if I called you nigga? And it's like I wish
you would?
Speaker 6 (11:28):
And they blew up when he said that in the show, right,
like the responses from the audience.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
It wasn't though the thing.
Speaker 8 (11:35):
It was so because they said it all the time.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
So I take a slight exception with the familiarity and
the usage of the word in the in the late
seventies early eighties, those were shows done by Norman Lear,
and Norman was credited across, you know, really across platforms,
regardless of who the critic is, as using humor as
a way to put a mirror up to the American people. Yeah,
(11:59):
into Archie Bunker, sitting on the couch and and and
and using terminology that everyone could laugh with because it
was such an obvious characteristic of who he was, and
therefore who somebody's who one person's grandfather, you know, he
(12:20):
reminded him of about his grandfather, George Jefferson reminded us
at least of an aspirational view of what we might
do or be like if we were ever to.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Come into wealth.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
And I didn't know anybody who had moved on up
and that and and and and that way, and so
it was in many ways aspirational, but it wasn't ubiquitous
across television the usage of it. That's what made his
work so noteworthy and exceptional, is that it was so
rare and he used so this is mirroring technique as
(12:52):
a way to to ease the conversation and make it
more comfortable and not a third rail.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So but I'm this and I do want you to
reflect on your earliest memory of this, But I just
mine kind of dovetails with tiff. I remember my parents
listening to Richard Pryor records and he said it all
the time, and he said it with they are all
the time, and my parents like, I'm gonna get in trouble, Mom,
don't get mad.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
It's the truth. My mom and my dad, sisters she
didn't like you would go him that like.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I don't, I mean, or even if they were joking,
like she would be like listen and they would fall
out laughing. So like I associated the N word for
a long time just with comedic moments like I didn't
know that you couldn't say it. For example, on my
first Communion day because I was I was baptized Catholic hair.
First Communia had first repentance or whatever it's called. Ain't
(13:46):
called first repents now I'm pentecosta.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
I don't know what the other world was called.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Anyway, we had to go see the priests and you
tell them what you did wrong. Anyway, Yes, whatever it is,
but it was, it's a name for it, first reconciliation.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
That's the first Communion day. I had a cat. We
had all the family over the house.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
This is my dad's fault. Yeah, all the family over
the house and I couldn't get to the cat. We
had the elders at the house too, and I said,
come here, you little bastard. I did not know, just
like with the N word, that bastard was a bad word.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
My dad said it all the time. And this is
my point. I was My dad and my mom was
were mortified, but like I was, like, how was I
supposed to know? You guys said all the time. Then
they were more mortified.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But my point is, I feel like it's not that
different with the inWORD for me from my experience growing up,
of course, with the black history parents I got.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
You learn quickly after that, right.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
That I think, you know, I'm thinking, I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
I grew up a lot of my younger years in
my grandmother's household, and they were much older than my
dad's grandparents, my grandparents when I was growing up. My
mom's parents were in their seventies eighties, but a very
religious Pentecostal household, and my memory I have very clearly
as my grandmother, I mean just backhanding one of my brothers,
(14:57):
my second oldest brother, who used the word in the
house house and it was as it was as close
to blasphemy as you could come like, and my grandmother's
as we couldn't play I declare war because cards were
of the devil.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
They were not supposed to be in the house.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
So I think in some ways we do have slightly
different experiences because of in the ways in which we
were reared and where and so on and so forth.
So I do in some ways think there's a generational element.
But I also think there has always been, at least
amongst us, a familiarity with the word in some sub
ownership of it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, that didn't mean.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
What the pejorative intended, right, Sure, the pejorative definition of
it was. But my honest thought is that I have
used it and use it with friends and close company,
and we almost never have necessarily positive you know. It's
like you did something, you know, messed up, and now
(15:54):
you or you've done so. But it's in love, it's
in care of each other.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
But said, it's an accountability where all right, y'all, we're
going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
I'm about to mess all up a little bit. And
that is growing up in Seattle. It's very multicultural, and
(16:22):
there's some constituencies in Seattle, like at least high school,
middle school for me, that grew up so closely with us,
particularly a lot of Filipino kids who said the N
word and we didn't think anything of it. In New York,
you'll see a lot of times Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, and
of course we know that slave ship stopped in different.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Period.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
They could be, but they also might not be. They
could be indigenous, right or.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Have someone in there.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
There's a distinction, right right, But.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I'm saying like there's some of that and people are
coming and I'm like, you're right, I'm a whole hypocrite there.
But there is one thing that I want to point
out here, and that is that some rappers, including Politzer
Prize winning Kendrick Lamar, disagree with Lady Oh, disagree with
Berry in the in word, disagree with your grandma got
black Andrew but white. Andrew at the beginning of the
episode spelled it out, and of course Kendrick is.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
On that same thing.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
He said with royalty and that's how he would like
to remix and reinterpret the N word.
Speaker 8 (17:19):
Yeah, And I think that's why I was saying, it's
a narrow perspective to bury it. I think if you
choose not to say it, then don't say it. But
it's just a crazy thing to me that somebody within
community would tell. I mean, I'm a big live and
let live person. It's like, but it offend you, then
don't say it? Yeah, you know, but don't tell me
because we're in the same community. So within our community,
(17:42):
I respect your understanding of the word and how it
impacts you, but respect mine. And I think that's the
what we have to to show up as I think
the question of who gets to say it. You know,
j Lo got in a lot of trouble when she
did the song with Jah Rule, and you know, she's
Puerto Rican from the Bronx, and I know people feel
(18:03):
a way about her now. But she had that song
with y'all Rule and she was saying, I tell them
niggas mind their business, but they don't hear me though,
and people outside the.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Tri State were like, whoa what? You don't get to
say that.
Speaker 8 (18:13):
So I think the question of who gets to say
it and how it's received even that, I couldn't imagine
telling somebody like you shouldn't be offended, or you should
be offended if you offended didn't say it some people.
I think Mariah Carey was asked about it, like would
she say the word? And Maria Carey identifies herself as black,
so she feels like, yes, I can say this. She's
white presenting when she first came out and we didn't
(18:34):
know a lot about Mariah Carey, people felt the way
about that answer, So I don't know. I think if
everybody would do what they want to do and mind
your business about what other people want to do and
get to the real important things that are happening in
our community outside who gets to say the inn word?
I think that's better, But do I get own it?
Conversation own?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Do we own the in word? Yes, we own nigga.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
So when you say get like, mind your business, you're
talking about mind the community?
Speaker 5 (19:00):
These business are you saying mind your business now? But
that's for community people. You're specifying all talking about No, no.
Speaker 8 (19:10):
No, no, no, all of this is in community. I
censor us at everything. Can I play the Tanahase?
Speaker 5 (19:18):
I was, yeah, I wanted to say this to Andrew.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I don't know if you wanted to weigh in here,
but I think that there is an intense fascination with
who can say the in word, and us consistently being
interrogated about who can say the in word?
Speaker 5 (19:35):
And yeah, so took that question.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
Tanahase was asked by a student and she was saying,
she doesn't say it, and there are like, you know,
these hip hop songs and people say it, and she
wanted his opinion on white people saying this word, and
he gave her an answer that I thought was pretty
brilliant and summed up how I feel.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Listen, shit, when you're white in this country, you're taught
that everything belongs to you. Do you think you have
a right to everything? You got a right to go
with you? I mean in your condition this way. It's
not you know, because you you know your hair is
a texture or your skin is light. It's the fact
that the laws in the culture tell you this. You
(20:18):
got a right to go where you want to go,
do what you want to do. Be however, and people
just got to accommodate themselves to you. So here comes
this word that you know, you feel like you invented,
and now somebody will tell you how to use a
word that you invented. You know, why can't I use it?
Everyone else gets to use it? You know what. That's
(20:39):
racism that I don't get to use it. You know
that's racist against me. You know, I have to inconvenience
to myself and to hear this song, and I can't
sing along. How Come I can't sing along?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
And I think, you know, for white people, I think
the experience of being a hip hop fan and not
being able to use the word nigga's actually very very insightful.
It will give you just a little peak into.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
The world of what it means to be black.
Speaker 8 (21:10):
I think he summed it up perfectly, so perfectly. I
don't even have anything else to add to.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Well, Mike drop moment from tanahasty but before we drop
it all the way word what I say, he gets,
So it's Tana hot for a lot because you're not
the only one Tana sea coat. Since how you say it,
ta ha se definitely not trying to n word brother today,
but I was gonna say no, no, no, yes, why
can't I use it? So speaking of who can't use it, though,
(21:36):
we are clear that we don't think white folks should
be able to. But Kendrick Lamar on one of his
disc tracks recently, Euphoria, he said he don't like when
Drake said it. He said, we don't want to hear
you say nigga, no my, and it was weird. I
think the query really is is it because he's biracial?
Is it because he's Canadian? Is it because he's corny?
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Just because like I think you feel no, no, no,
no no, I'm just asking the question.
Speaker 8 (22:05):
Well, how do you feel about Drake saying it?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I don't care about Drake saying it. I think I
think one of the things that's remarkable there was a
and I didn't cut it for this because it was
too long. It was so interesting a YouTube series where
black folks sit with Africans and African Americans sit with
Africans and they ask the question on if they say
(22:28):
nigga and why, And for some people they think it
is a unique experience for Black Americans to be able
to say this word, to have ownership over this word,
and not black people throughout the diaspora.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
That is not my perspective on it, because I think
black folks who.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Were coming from the continent here were called that, you know,
and whatever it is, whatever we can own and do own,
I'm good with that. Whether that's land, whether it's the
word nigga, whether it's money, whether whatever it is the
highest office of the land, I'm good with that. I
just think that it really taps into the perception on
Drake's psyche, and that is what he was calling attention to.
(23:08):
There are people who are black appearing, are black adjacent,
and they get to do things with us like us,
even when they don't care about us. And I think
that was really the question. I don't even think it
was so much about Drake as it was like people like.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
You, Yeah, you know, I don't even honestly, I don't
care at all about white people's thoughts on the word nigga.
Like it's just I just don't center that perspective.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
I was talking about Kendrick could Drake No.
Speaker 8 (23:35):
But when you were talking about the YouTube video that
you wanted to play about these white kids asking each
other like how they feel about it?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
No, I'm sorry, I said black Americans and Africans.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
I thought you were saying white black America.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
Okay, that changes it.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Yeah, no, I'm you answer it, my man. I thought
you were saying it with a bunch of white hem No, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
No, no no.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
This was literally Africans from the contine, like, yes, this
woman was born here, but her parents are from Nigeria.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
It is you know, and black Americans.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
And I was saying, do black people throughout the diaspora
on this word or is it a Black American owned word?
And I was saying, I don't have an opinion on that.
I don't care when we were the other because we
were all impacted by that.
Speaker 8 (24:14):
Hip hop has taken it to the continent for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Oh yeah, but also the slave ship that went there
first ticket to the you know what I'm saying, Like
we were called that.
Speaker 8 (24:21):
But that was the I think the slur, I mean,
the way yeah has taken it there, Yeah Yeah, what's
your prior records?
Speaker 6 (24:29):
I do think as we I think early in the
conversation we said that there are very, very important and
vexing things to the community. The language piece, I think
we've pushed past. There was a heated moment of it
right in the nineties, largely in competition and in contrast
to what was happening and the growth of hip hop
and the popularity of hip hop, which transcended just black
(24:51):
fans and it became highly popular concerts attended by majority
white audiences, so on and so forth, made this into
a heated tenor.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
But I think the waves have calmed a little bit.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
I kind of feel like if I got out of
the head games between Kendrick and Drake on that what
Kendrick might have been referring to is there is a
unique Black American, black Southern American relationship with the word
and not only is this brother not black Southern or
have that experiences similar to what Obama faced about not
(25:27):
being black enough. He was not bought up in the
traditional black American experience.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
He was in Greg's daddy from Memphis.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
That may be the case. He was born and reared
in Canada.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Yeah, I just was telling you that. Yeah, so some
of that is at play. I hear this. I think
that we might need to consider a part too.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
But I think one of the things that we should
not to close this is dear white people, we don't
want to hear you say nigga, No more, y'all.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Can bury it. Carry on.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Welcome home, y'all, Welcome, Thanks for listening.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Remember to rate, review, subscribe, and tune into our regular
episodes every Thursday.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Welcome Home.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reasoned Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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