February 3, 2025 • 23 mins
On this MiniPod hosts Tiffany Cross, Angela Rye, and Andrew Gillum teach us how to spot a leader.
Role models who can rally and inspire have always been crucial for effecting change. Our hosts share some of their favorite modern leaders in the Black community–and we want to hear from YOU:
Who are YOUR top 5 leaders? Send us a video!
If you’d like to submit a question, check out our tutorial video: www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/
We are 638 days away from the midterm elections. Welcome home y’all!
—---------
We want to hear from you! Send us a video @nativelandpod and we may feature you on the podcast.
Watch full episodes of Native Land Pod here on YouTube.
Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.
Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:
Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
Theme music created by Daniel Laurent.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Natively in Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Welcome, Welcome, Hey, Angela, Tiffany, and Andrew. My name is
Dev Myers, and I have a question.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
This question has.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Been on my mind for some time now, but you know,
it's definitely come to the forefront due to this new
administration and just continued reminders that this the system that
we built was not made for us, even though we
put in the work. My question is, should we as
black people come together and make a collective effort to
(00:39):
try and establish a majority in a state. I think
that the reason why this question is even coming up
for me is that, you know, we did really well
in are you know, local spaces, whether it's city council,
mayor but those powers are pretty limited. While it it's
(01:00):
a good thing that we're doing that, right, I think
we should really think about us as black people securing
a majority in a state because it does come with
a lot of power, right, even more even so dwindling
or limiting the harmful effects of oppressive policies from the
federal government. So I just want to ask you, it's
(01:23):
just something that you guys think we should discuss as leaders?
Should this be on the table?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Thank you, Welcome home y'all to the mini pod.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We had Dev Meyers, our viewer, kick us off with
a poigt question. So if you heard this week's podcast,
you heard us talk about who exactly are our leaders?
It came up organically and Angela said we should do
our minipod on that. So I thought no better time
than to do this now and to have one of
our viewer questions kick off the conversation. I got to say,
(01:52):
Angela Andrew, I love this question. The interesting thing is
we we there is no states where black people are
the majority, but there are states where people of color
make up the majority. They call them majority minority states.
(02:13):
But it does speak to because let's say, okay, we
build a little Wakanda right here in America. Who are
we electing president as this Wakanda? Who is our Wakandan cabinet?
So I don't really have an answer. I have thoughts
about us being a leaderless community, but I want to
hear from the president and the chief staff of the Blacks,
Angela Raie, and what she got to say about it.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
A nice try. Negro This was on you because in
the last podcast you said who are our leaders? So
I was like, oh, Tip, I want to know who
you say the leaders are.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I cannot think of somebody who I would say this
is the leader for black people. And I think the
reason why Angela and I'm Andrews because when we look
at the civil rights movement, right we could name, you know, there,
I would say probably twenty leaders that we could say
were the people who were leading movements.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think as our.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Rights expanded and now they're shrinking as we built wealth
amongst ourselves that later was stolen the cycle we go on,
our interests disaggregated, and social media democratized who has a voice.
So then everyone became leaders in their own right, and
(03:26):
some people became so seduced by the idea of being
a leader but not actually building change.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So I think we're at this moment.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I don't know if there's a single person who should
wear the crown and take on that responsibility. I think
there are people who lead different things. I think Latasha
Brown who runs Black Voters Matter. If there were a
cabinet position of you got to go out and mobilize
people or you're the chief administrator of love. Then I
(03:59):
would say, Tasha, is that just because the mainstream outlets don't,
you know, profile her on sixty minutes, you all should know,
like the work that she has done tirelessly for decades,
she is a You cannot tell the story of America
without telling without involving Natasha Brown in that.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So I say she's a leader. I think you guys
are leaders.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
We talked in the main podcast about Andrew founding Yeo
Young elected officials that you know. I think that cast
a wide net of influence across our local politics. Angela,
I've written about you. I have the pleasure of being
your friend for a couple of decades. But I think
you changed the way I know you've done a lot more.
I'm just talking about in media. You changed the way
(04:40):
that people consume media because for so long people didn't
see themselves reflected. I think you added significant ratings to
CNN and.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Brought people in.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That was the cake that you gave them so they
could eat the broccoli later. But people started paying attention
to politics because you made the message so so digestible
and so plain, and because you weren't for the bullshit
when you were sitting across from people, so that positioned
you to be a leader. You use that platform and
then do other things you had already. You were already
(05:08):
a leader on Capitol Hill, not just in the professional positions,
but you came to make change. You know, you build
impact strategies, so you're you're a leader. I've certainly tried
to be a leader and lead things in my capacity
in journalism by starting products, building newsrooms.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So I don't know that we can have one one leader.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I like that. I mean I was actually going to
challenge the assertion that we needed a personality individual to follow.
I think the model of leadership has evolved over over time,
and as the mediums have expanded, people are getting information
in different ways through different platforms. We got to cover
(05:54):
all the turf. But before I before I go there
to make a point on the leader or not a leader,
I just want to respectfully say to the brother, this
is the list of states in this order that we
need to go take over. District of Columbia, where we
are already forty four percent of the population, Mississippi, where
we're thirty eight percent of the population, losing Anna thirty
(06:19):
three percent, Georgia thirty three percent, the state of Maryland
thirty two percent. That's a plurality when you're talking about
elections and trying to move the direction. And the crazy
thing about this, y'all, With the exception of the District
of Columbia and Maryland, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Georgia are all
(06:40):
states led by deep, deep red conservative elected officials at
every at the various levels, from the courts to the
governor's mansion to the legislative arms. If we were able
to not only show up in these states but also
be registered and then active the vote, man change change
(07:03):
the political map, it totally shifts it. Right. So there's
some strategy that should and could go into whether or
not there were places right here in this land here
that we cultivated where we can actually take on a state,
and those three states Mississippi, Louisiana, and Georgia would be
perfect when you consider that we would shift, we would
(07:25):
turn over the table on the political map and the
electoral college map that right now increasingly is cutting black
people out of it, cutting impact out of it.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
That's what I have someone to say about pioneering, But
I want to hear. Sorry, I'm sorry, Andrew, I was rude.
I arge you, but I don't want to. I want
to say something about pioneering, but I want and a
little way in on this leadership question. But Andrew, don't
let me forget because what you just lay down with
that list I got thoughts. We'll go ahead, and Angel
I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I hope we go all the way there. And then
finally I'll just say I love the fact that maybe
we can't name just one leader. I would just love
for the leaders, wherever they are in their respective places
and whatever they're leading, that they actually step up, speak
truth to power and take us somewhere. Because if you're
(08:16):
not bringing some folks along, you're a man or a
woman taking a walk.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
As they say, come on Chinese proverb. I you know first,
I want to just add I would love to know
what Alabama's numbers are too, because you didn't name them.
So I'm just curious how far behind they are in
our overall demographic and is it the demographic of voting
age people or is it the black demographic period Curious
about those.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Those percentages were black percentage of the population in those days,
five percent, not necessarily.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
According to the US SenSys, the black population is twenty
six point six percent in Alabama.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Interesting. I would wouldn't have thought it would be that different.
But I guess you know what is fascinating to me
about this moment, Like I agree with you guys obviously,
Like even when you go back and look at the
Civil rights era, sure, doctor King was the face of
the movement, but I think that if he were alive today,
he would tell us there was a whole group of
folks who were actively engaged, and even if they weren't
(09:16):
all under the same umbrella, they were marching literally towards
the same goal I am. I wonder though, like if
we were put in a position where they said, you know,
if it's the Trump administration, since they're in power now,
they're like, hey, we need one spokesperson for black people,
who's going I think that would turn into battle Royale.
(09:37):
But I would love to know, Like, if you had
to give me your top five list, who you send it.
And I'm also curious about if you only had one
call to make to you know, like a black leader,
like to represent your national interests, who are you calling?
Why does that matter? I think that we have to
get to a point where not only were we just
(09:59):
picked one, but if groups of us are picking one person,
then we have a table. We have a kitchen cabinet,
a board of advisors of folks who are authorized to
make moves on our behalf. When you consider, I mean,
I don't even know if they were deputized or not,
if they just kind of took charge. But when you
consider what happened in eighteen sixty five when the Secretary
(10:22):
of War and General Stanton went into Savannah, Georgia to
talk to Garrison Fraser nineteen ministers. So at that point,
the church is where leadership existed for the black community.
They negotiated what the terms of our freedom would be
on the other side of emancipation, the Emancipation Proclamation. And
it wasn't because there was, you know, this edict that
(10:44):
came down from President Lincoln at the time. It's because
there was just a massacre that they were like, oh,
we got it was so consider George Floyd of eighteen
sixty five, but it was a bunch of black folks
that got killed at a river, right Like when you
consider that there were nineteen of them. Even then at
the table, we are a communal people, so it's not
like we really need to pick a singular leader. But
(11:04):
if we had to have our starting five or the
folks who were going to beat the other team at
the All Star Game, Tiff, I know you appreciate those
analogies of our residents first expert.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
What who who.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
We put in a game like this.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Is an ongoing conversation. I love that question. I would
love to hear from the audience too.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Well.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I want to make sure we're asking correctly.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
You're saying you're top five leaders, Like if you send it,
but who's that?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Like?
Speaker 1 (11:45):
If the president says, send me the top five leaders,
you don't have to be this president, any leader of
the nation.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
No, I think I think it should be this predident, Okay,
especially because it's ultra inflammatory, because then then if you
think about all of his rhetoric, he's definitely the one
that would be like, I need the one black. Who's
the one black? I'm not talking to all you one black?
So if you if everybody had one black and we
knew we were gonna have to narrow down from this
top five, who's on your top five? I like that
(12:11):
once you got your your one if you got your one,
sending your one, But like right now, you know a
lot of people. I think, especially when when I was
the CBC executive director, Russia Black Hacke's executive director, we
caught so much heat anytime we push back against President Obama,
I think there are a lot of people would say
President Obama. To Andrew's point from the last podcast we
(12:32):
were teasing this, a lot of people might say, Michelle Obama,
what are your whys? Like, what are the things that
they're leading where you're saying this makes them the authority
on black America. I'm not just talking about them time.
If you say Reverend Sharpton or Jesse Jackson Senior, or
you say resurrect doctor King, or if you'd say, actually
like Revend Bernice King or Corey Booker's my guy, or
(12:52):
you know, I like Hakeem Jeffers, Jeffers, he seems to
represent my interests, or you know doctor Umar, I want.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
To know about.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I like the question I would probably answer, I'm not
gonna I'm not going to no. No, this is this
is what I would say. I would say. I have
said there are characteristics that I wanted a negotiating room
if what we're doing is sending a group of people
to negotiate with the president. I can tell you two
individuals that I want to two characteristics. I want one.
(13:25):
I want the person who speaks the language of the
person we're negotiating with, right they they know the subtext
and somebody call it also the diplomat. And I also
want the hail raiser in the room. And because I
need the I need the person who we are negotiating
(13:45):
with to know that you can deal with this, you
can deal with that.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
That just saying with Engineine.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Some other things that would come he would be would
be how I would make that.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I honestly I pick it up, pick it up. I'm
actually not kidding.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I really Angela would definitely be on my top five,
but I need more thought into a more comprehensive list.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And especially if you.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Got one call to make, like me and my friend
are our friend Albert, we always joke I.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Was like, something happened to me calling Angela Rye. Yeah,
I would say that, so I you.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Would definitely be in my top five, but I need
more time to think. I have to we have to
revisit the conversation because I need more time.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
I would let me tell you. Let me tell you, guys,
I think I agree with Andrew. Like Andrew for me
is my resident diplomat.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Want Andrew? You got your top five? Randy?
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Sure? No, I well maybe, but I will, I say,
I definitely want Andrew. I don't know which one, but
I would want a faith leader who comes to mind
for me right now is Reverend Haines Freddy Haynes. I
love Reverend Barber too.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Dang, we all have places. No, no, no, no, I.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
Know Reverend Barber is a good one though too. I
appreciate this too. But I think if we were going
to have a meeting about the needs of the whole,
like all of America, I would have Reverend Barbara on
that one. I think for Black America, I'm picking pretty hang, okay,
I think I would want like a black intellectual. So
somebody that record represents academia.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You say, you're not saying who or do you not?
Speaker 5 (15:26):
I know, but I'm trying. I tried to give you
a name, and then you threw another name, and I
was like, oh, that's a good one. But then I
had to retrack. If I had to pick a black academician,
I would pick see I'd be trying to make a point.
So the person I'm thinking about is the Harvard president
they got rid of day day. Yeah, I would want
(15:48):
I want to do that just because it would be like, yeah,
you thought you was gonna take her out of Harvard,
but she's in the most important room, you know that
kind of a thing. And then I want, like, if
there was a way to I don't even know she
well she would have to like violate some rule to
do this, probably, But if there was a way to
have someone go and make the constitutional arguments that we
need to be made, I would want it to be
(16:09):
the good sister Katanji Brown Jackson.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I know you're gonna say her win her Cowie with
the calorie shells our requirement in fact, can you wear
a Cowie suit?
Speaker 5 (16:19):
And then I would want a business leader at the
table that can make the economic arguments. And so my
business leader that I would pick because I trust him
and I know he's always had our back when we're
looking we don't is Robert Smith?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, how many do I have life?
Speaker 5 (16:40):
I don't have enough women?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Oh I had to Well, you reserve a right to
come back with a more comprehensive list because.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Well, I feel like civil rights also needs to be represented.
And I'll tell you that my battle on that right
now is that it feels like a lot of the organizations.
Oh you know who I would pick. He's not over
the organization anymore, but one of my favorite people to
learn from, to listen to on strategy. Oh, I gotta
(17:10):
have two. It's two of them. Actually, I call them
my siblings. That's for Shot Robinson and Alicia Garza. And
damn it, I have not even left out Latasha. I
need to get to combine with you.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
We still need to squad just outside the room.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
I need you to be in there. So you go
a report out exact, come back to read out. We
have to read out.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
We'll give this some thought, mate. I hope we can
do this next week.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
This is really hard, and then a week to figure
it out. This this is my last thing, I promise.
I just want to think. I want us to think
about how historically people who didn't always get the national
recognition had some tremendous impact. People always go to Maynard
Jackson about what he did for Atlanta in terms of
creating black wealth. That yeah, multi generation, and so I
(18:01):
also think it's important for us to stop making it
seem like the platform on which you stand determines the
impact and the quality of your leadership. That is not
always true. And it also is not true that just
because you have a platform that you are also a leader.
So I love that. I mean, at least in my opinion.
That doesn't mean I'm not meaning to influence with the
audience fills. But from my perspective, I think it's important.
(18:22):
I think the price of leadership is responsibility, and everything
with the platform is not responsible.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Okay, y'all are seeing this on Monday, drop your top
five to answer Angela's question and we will have our
that's our homework. We'll get our top five and then
we'll come back and neither discuss this on the main
you're going to answer this question.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
From a single leader leader, Well, we have always looked.
In fact, you can go any church any Sunday and folks,
well where the leader at? Where is our And I
just want us to resist this Eurocentric model of leadership
that it has to be, you know, this sort of
(19:08):
the survival of the fittest type. This is the Donald
Trump mold, the strong man you know, parody really that
he parodies. We as a community are so complex, diverse, incredible,
whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I love the fact that we are thinking about this
in the way of how the community shows up in
this space. Yeah, and not how one person shows up
in the space. That weight. That weight is just too
heavy for one.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I just want to close this out really quickly by
saying something about pioneering, because that is what it will
take to the viewers question. It will take us being
willing to uproot and go establish community in some of
these places. And if we did that all across the
Bible Belt and in the South, we could literally change
the electoral map of this country.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I want to shout out Michael Harriet, who is doing
just that.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Michael Harriet, And I'm saying this because he's talked about
it and he's going to be writing about it.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You all know he's a brilliant writer. But he bought.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Acres of land in the Deep South and when I
tell you, looking at his property, he could build fifty houses,
a school, and a hospital on the He bought a plantation.
It was a former plantation and he bought it and
it is like it is the blackest place I've ever
(20:34):
been and it is beautiful and you can literally the
slave quarters are still intact on the ground. I mean,
it's like going back in time and he's turned it
into this beautiful safe space. So it just got me
thinking when I was down there, like, yes, that's what
it would take. And if the acres of land are
not expensive in the Bible Belt, and imagine if a
(20:54):
hundred of us said, yeah, we're going to go to
Mississippi and buy land and we can't trust the infrastructure here,
so we're gonna build our own schools, We're gonna establish
our own community. I hate to be a Debbie Downer,
but I'm like, the white folks would come kill us.
They would come burn it down.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
As as they always have.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
They always have Angela from the Red Summer of nineteen
nineteen through the random acts of violence through the Greenwood
Dishrict of Tulsa to Elaine, Arkansas. And it wasn't just
me like men, women and children. They killed babies, Okay,
literal babies. So I think about that, and we'd have
to have like serious security. But pioneering is something to
(21:33):
think about for us in this time of danger. Should
we be pioneering someplace? Should we be setting up compounds someplace,
not as doomsdayers, but as you know, we're still keeping
our day jobs. We're not to go on occupy Wall Street,
but we are, you know, building something ourselves, and it's.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Getting back in touch with what we already know. Black folks,
after their liberation through the Emancipation Proclamation, pioneered their way
all the way out west. Yeah, set up whole communities
of formerly enslaved and held it down for fors.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And we don't talk enough about that migration.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
That is how into the family actually, because y'all were
in Louisiana, right and then losing, we focus so much
on Mississippi Chicago, but there, you know, we fanned out.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
All.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
I want to tell you guys real quick, since we
were talking about Georgia a little bit and Tip brought
up pioneering, you guys should look up in this for
the listeners and YouTube if you haven't. This group of
black folks that bought property like ninety six acres in
an area they called Freedom Georgia. I had I did
an interview with them that we lost. I would love
for us to talk to them. They do some incredible
(22:43):
things and they're calling it the Black Wall Street of
the New South and that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So I'd love to talk to them on site.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
Yeah, oh yeah, that would be great. Pay for it
to send us reparation.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Done done.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
All right, Well, this is a great forward hearing these folks.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Answers on the top five.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
I know I've looked forward to hearing y'all.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yes, I'm really gonna give this something. I had a
top nine, but we're gonna come back. We're gonna narrow
it down to our each of our top five. All right, well,
thanks for listening. Be sure to tell your friends about
these mini pods that drop, and remember the single pods.
Go back and make sure you check out Angela's sidepod
that she did on all the executive orders. She dropped
that last Tuesday, so you guys, make sure you check
(23:26):
that out. We are your host, Tiffany Cross, ANGELAA and
Andrew Gillim.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Welcome home, y'all, Welcome home, everybody.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Native Land Pod is the production of iHeart Radio and
partnership with Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Natively in Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
with Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Welcome, Welcome, Hey, Angela, Tiffany, and Andrew. My name is
Dev Myers, and I have a question.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
This question has.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Been on my mind for some time now, but you know,
it's definitely come to the forefront due to this new
administration and just continued reminders that this the system that
we built was not made for us, even though we
put in the work. My question is, should we as
black people come together and make a collective effort to
(00:39):
try and establish a majority in a state. I think
that the reason why this question is even coming up
for me is that, you know, we did really well
in are you know, local spaces, whether it's city council,
mayor but those powers are pretty limited. While it it's
(01:00):
a good thing that we're doing that, right, I think
we should really think about us as black people securing
a majority in a state because it does come with
a lot of power, right, even more even so dwindling
or limiting the harmful effects of oppressive policies from the
federal government. So I just want to ask you, it's
(01:23):
just something that you guys think we should discuss as leaders?
Should this be on the table?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Thank you, Welcome home y'all to the mini pod.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We had Dev Meyers, our viewer, kick us off with
a poigt question. So if you heard this week's podcast,
you heard us talk about who exactly are our leaders?
It came up organically and Angela said we should do
our minipod on that. So I thought no better time
than to do this now and to have one of
our viewer questions kick off the conversation. I got to say,
(01:52):
Angela Andrew, I love this question. The interesting thing is
we we there is no states where black people are
the majority, but there are states where people of color
make up the majority. They call them majority minority states.
(02:13):
But it does speak to because let's say, okay, we
build a little Wakanda right here in America. Who are
we electing president as this Wakanda? Who is our Wakandan cabinet?
So I don't really have an answer. I have thoughts
about us being a leaderless community, but I want to
hear from the president and the chief staff of the Blacks,
Angela Raie, and what she got to say about it.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
A nice try. Negro This was on you because in
the last podcast you said who are our leaders? So
I was like, oh, Tip, I want to know who
you say the leaders are.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I cannot think of somebody who I would say this
is the leader for black people. And I think the
reason why Angela and I'm Andrews because when we look
at the civil rights movement, right we could name, you know, there,
I would say probably twenty leaders that we could say
were the people who were leading movements.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think as our.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Rights expanded and now they're shrinking as we built wealth
amongst ourselves that later was stolen the cycle we go on,
our interests disaggregated, and social media democratized who has a voice.
So then everyone became leaders in their own right, and
(03:26):
some people became so seduced by the idea of being
a leader but not actually building change.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So I think we're at this moment.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I don't know if there's a single person who should
wear the crown and take on that responsibility. I think
there are people who lead different things. I think Latasha
Brown who runs Black Voters Matter. If there were a
cabinet position of you got to go out and mobilize
people or you're the chief administrator of love. Then I
(03:59):
would say, Tasha, is that just because the mainstream outlets don't,
you know, profile her on sixty minutes, you all should know,
like the work that she has done tirelessly for decades,
she is a You cannot tell the story of America
without telling without involving Natasha Brown in that.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So I say she's a leader. I think you guys
are leaders.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
We talked in the main podcast about Andrew founding Yeo
Young elected officials that you know. I think that cast
a wide net of influence across our local politics. Angela,
I've written about you. I have the pleasure of being
your friend for a couple of decades. But I think
you changed the way I know you've done a lot more.
I'm just talking about in media. You changed the way
(04:40):
that people consume media because for so long people didn't
see themselves reflected. I think you added significant ratings to
CNN and.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Brought people in.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That was the cake that you gave them so they
could eat the broccoli later. But people started paying attention
to politics because you made the message so so digestible
and so plain, and because you weren't for the bullshit
when you were sitting across from people, so that positioned
you to be a leader. You use that platform and
then do other things you had already. You were already
(05:08):
a leader on Capitol Hill, not just in the professional positions,
but you came to make change. You know, you build
impact strategies, so you're you're a leader. I've certainly tried
to be a leader and lead things in my capacity
in journalism by starting products, building newsrooms.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So I don't know that we can have one one leader.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I like that. I mean I was actually going to
challenge the assertion that we needed a personality individual to follow.
I think the model of leadership has evolved over over time,
and as the mediums have expanded, people are getting information
in different ways through different platforms. We got to cover
(05:54):
all the turf. But before I before I go there
to make a point on the leader or not a leader,
I just want to respectfully say to the brother, this
is the list of states in this order that we
need to go take over. District of Columbia, where we
are already forty four percent of the population, Mississippi, where
we're thirty eight percent of the population, losing Anna thirty
(06:19):
three percent, Georgia thirty three percent, the state of Maryland
thirty two percent. That's a plurality when you're talking about
elections and trying to move the direction. And the crazy
thing about this, y'all, With the exception of the District
of Columbia and Maryland, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Georgia are all
(06:40):
states led by deep, deep red conservative elected officials at
every at the various levels, from the courts to the
governor's mansion to the legislative arms. If we were able
to not only show up in these states but also
be registered and then active the vote, man change change
(07:03):
the political map, it totally shifts it. Right. So there's
some strategy that should and could go into whether or
not there were places right here in this land here
that we cultivated where we can actually take on a state,
and those three states Mississippi, Louisiana, and Georgia would be
perfect when you consider that we would shift, we would
(07:25):
turn over the table on the political map and the
electoral college map that right now increasingly is cutting black
people out of it, cutting impact out of it.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
That's what I have someone to say about pioneering, But
I want to hear. Sorry, I'm sorry, Andrew, I was rude.
I arge you, but I don't want to. I want
to say something about pioneering, but I want and a
little way in on this leadership question. But Andrew, don't
let me forget because what you just lay down with
that list I got thoughts. We'll go ahead, and Angel
I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I hope we go all the way there. And then
finally I'll just say I love the fact that maybe
we can't name just one leader. I would just love
for the leaders, wherever they are in their respective places
and whatever they're leading, that they actually step up, speak
truth to power and take us somewhere. Because if you're
(08:16):
not bringing some folks along, you're a man or a
woman taking a walk.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
As they say, come on Chinese proverb. I you know first,
I want to just add I would love to know
what Alabama's numbers are too, because you didn't name them.
So I'm just curious how far behind they are in
our overall demographic and is it the demographic of voting
age people or is it the black demographic period Curious
about those.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Those percentages were black percentage of the population in those days,
five percent, not necessarily.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
According to the US SenSys, the black population is twenty
six point six percent in Alabama.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Interesting. I would wouldn't have thought it would be that different.
But I guess you know what is fascinating to me
about this moment, Like I agree with you guys obviously,
Like even when you go back and look at the
Civil rights era, sure, doctor King was the face of
the movement, but I think that if he were alive today,
he would tell us there was a whole group of
folks who were actively engaged, and even if they weren't
(09:16):
all under the same umbrella, they were marching literally towards
the same goal I am. I wonder though, like if
we were put in a position where they said, you know,
if it's the Trump administration, since they're in power now,
they're like, hey, we need one spokesperson for black people,
who's going I think that would turn into battle Royale.
(09:37):
But I would love to know, Like, if you had
to give me your top five list, who you send it.
And I'm also curious about if you only had one
call to make to you know, like a black leader,
like to represent your national interests, who are you calling?
Why does that matter? I think that we have to
get to a point where not only were we just
(09:59):
picked one, but if groups of us are picking one person,
then we have a table. We have a kitchen cabinet,
a board of advisors of folks who are authorized to
make moves on our behalf. When you consider, I mean,
I don't even know if they were deputized or not,
if they just kind of took charge. But when you
consider what happened in eighteen sixty five when the Secretary
(10:22):
of War and General Stanton went into Savannah, Georgia to
talk to Garrison Fraser nineteen ministers. So at that point,
the church is where leadership existed for the black community.
They negotiated what the terms of our freedom would be
on the other side of emancipation, the Emancipation Proclamation. And
it wasn't because there was, you know, this edict that
(10:44):
came down from President Lincoln at the time. It's because
there was just a massacre that they were like, oh,
we got it was so consider George Floyd of eighteen
sixty five, but it was a bunch of black folks
that got killed at a river, right Like when you
consider that there were nineteen of them. Even then at
the table, we are a communal people, so it's not
like we really need to pick a singular leader. But
(11:04):
if we had to have our starting five or the
folks who were going to beat the other team at
the All Star Game, Tiff, I know you appreciate those
analogies of our residents first expert.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
What who who.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
We put in a game like this.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Is an ongoing conversation. I love that question. I would
love to hear from the audience too.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Well.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I want to make sure we're asking correctly.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
You're saying you're top five leaders, Like if you send it,
but who's that?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Like?
Speaker 1 (11:45):
If the president says, send me the top five leaders,
you don't have to be this president, any leader of
the nation.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
No, I think I think it should be this predident, Okay,
especially because it's ultra inflammatory, because then then if you
think about all of his rhetoric, he's definitely the one
that would be like, I need the one black. Who's
the one black? I'm not talking to all you one black?
So if you if everybody had one black and we
knew we were gonna have to narrow down from this
top five, who's on your top five? I like that
(12:11):
once you got your your one if you got your one,
sending your one, But like right now, you know a
lot of people. I think, especially when when I was
the CBC executive director, Russia Black Hacke's executive director, we
caught so much heat anytime we push back against President Obama,
I think there are a lot of people would say
President Obama. To Andrew's point from the last podcast we
(12:32):
were teasing this, a lot of people might say, Michelle Obama,
what are your whys? Like, what are the things that
they're leading where you're saying this makes them the authority
on black America. I'm not just talking about them time.
If you say Reverend Sharpton or Jesse Jackson Senior, or
you say resurrect doctor King, or if you'd say, actually
like Revend Bernice King or Corey Booker's my guy, or
(12:52):
you know, I like Hakeem Jeffers, Jeffers, he seems to
represent my interests, or you know doctor Umar, I want.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
To know about.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I like the question I would probably answer, I'm not
gonna I'm not going to no. No, this is this
is what I would say. I would say. I have
said there are characteristics that I wanted a negotiating room
if what we're doing is sending a group of people
to negotiate with the president. I can tell you two
individuals that I want to two characteristics. I want one.
(13:25):
I want the person who speaks the language of the
person we're negotiating with, right they they know the subtext
and somebody call it also the diplomat. And I also
want the hail raiser in the room. And because I
need the I need the person who we are negotiating
(13:45):
with to know that you can deal with this, you
can deal with that.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
That just saying with Engineine.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Some other things that would come he would be would
be how I would make that.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I honestly I pick it up, pick it up. I'm
actually not kidding.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I really Angela would definitely be on my top five,
but I need more thought into a more comprehensive list.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And especially if you.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Got one call to make, like me and my friend
are our friend Albert, we always joke I.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Was like, something happened to me calling Angela Rye. Yeah,
I would say that, so I you.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Would definitely be in my top five, but I need
more time to think. I have to we have to
revisit the conversation because I need more time.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
I would let me tell you. Let me tell you, guys,
I think I agree with Andrew. Like Andrew for me
is my resident diplomat.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Want Andrew? You got your top five? Randy?
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Sure? No, I well maybe, but I will, I say,
I definitely want Andrew. I don't know which one, but
I would want a faith leader who comes to mind
for me right now is Reverend Haines Freddy Haynes. I
love Reverend Barber too.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Dang, we all have places. No, no, no, no, I.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
Know Reverend Barber is a good one though too. I
appreciate this too. But I think if we were going
to have a meeting about the needs of the whole,
like all of America, I would have Reverend Barbara on
that one. I think for Black America, I'm picking pretty hang, okay,
I think I would want like a black intellectual. So
somebody that record represents academia.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You say, you're not saying who or do you not?
Speaker 5 (15:26):
I know, but I'm trying. I tried to give you
a name, and then you threw another name, and I
was like, oh, that's a good one. But then I
had to retrack. If I had to pick a black academician,
I would pick see I'd be trying to make a point.
So the person I'm thinking about is the Harvard president
they got rid of day day. Yeah, I would want
(15:48):
I want to do that just because it would be like, yeah,
you thought you was gonna take her out of Harvard,
but she's in the most important room, you know that
kind of a thing. And then I want, like, if
there was a way to I don't even know she
well she would have to like violate some rule to
do this, probably, But if there was a way to
have someone go and make the constitutional arguments that we
need to be made, I would want it to be
(16:09):
the good sister Katanji Brown Jackson.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I know you're gonna say her win her Cowie with
the calorie shells our requirement in fact, can you wear
a Cowie suit?
Speaker 5 (16:19):
And then I would want a business leader at the
table that can make the economic arguments. And so my
business leader that I would pick because I trust him
and I know he's always had our back when we're
looking we don't is Robert Smith?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, how many do I have life?
Speaker 5 (16:40):
I don't have enough women?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Oh I had to Well, you reserve a right to
come back with a more comprehensive list because.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Well, I feel like civil rights also needs to be represented.
And I'll tell you that my battle on that right
now is that it feels like a lot of the organizations.
Oh you know who I would pick. He's not over
the organization anymore, but one of my favorite people to
learn from, to listen to on strategy. Oh, I gotta
(17:10):
have two. It's two of them. Actually, I call them
my siblings. That's for Shot Robinson and Alicia Garza. And
damn it, I have not even left out Latasha. I
need to get to combine with you.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
We still need to squad just outside the room.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
I need you to be in there. So you go
a report out exact, come back to read out. We
have to read out.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
We'll give this some thought, mate. I hope we can
do this next week.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
This is really hard, and then a week to figure
it out. This this is my last thing, I promise.
I just want to think. I want us to think
about how historically people who didn't always get the national
recognition had some tremendous impact. People always go to Maynard
Jackson about what he did for Atlanta in terms of
creating black wealth. That yeah, multi generation, and so I
(18:01):
also think it's important for us to stop making it
seem like the platform on which you stand determines the
impact and the quality of your leadership. That is not
always true. And it also is not true that just
because you have a platform that you are also a leader.
So I love that. I mean, at least in my opinion.
That doesn't mean I'm not meaning to influence with the
audience fills. But from my perspective, I think it's important.
(18:22):
I think the price of leadership is responsibility, and everything
with the platform is not responsible.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Okay, y'all are seeing this on Monday, drop your top
five to answer Angela's question and we will have our
that's our homework. We'll get our top five and then
we'll come back and neither discuss this on the main
you're going to answer this question.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
From a single leader leader, Well, we have always looked.
In fact, you can go any church any Sunday and folks,
well where the leader at? Where is our And I
just want us to resist this Eurocentric model of leadership
that it has to be, you know, this sort of
(19:08):
the survival of the fittest type. This is the Donald
Trump mold, the strong man you know, parody really that
he parodies. We as a community are so complex, diverse, incredible,
whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I love the fact that we are thinking about this
in the way of how the community shows up in
this space. Yeah, and not how one person shows up
in the space. That weight. That weight is just too
heavy for one.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I just want to close this out really quickly by
saying something about pioneering, because that is what it will
take to the viewers question. It will take us being
willing to uproot and go establish community in some of
these places. And if we did that all across the
Bible Belt and in the South, we could literally change
the electoral map of this country.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I want to shout out Michael Harriet, who is doing
just that.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Michael Harriet, And I'm saying this because he's talked about
it and he's going to be writing about it.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You all know he's a brilliant writer. But he bought.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Acres of land in the Deep South and when I
tell you, looking at his property, he could build fifty houses,
a school, and a hospital on the He bought a plantation.
It was a former plantation and he bought it and
it is like it is the blackest place I've ever
(20:34):
been and it is beautiful and you can literally the
slave quarters are still intact on the ground. I mean,
it's like going back in time and he's turned it
into this beautiful safe space. So it just got me
thinking when I was down there, like, yes, that's what
it would take. And if the acres of land are
not expensive in the Bible Belt, and imagine if a
(20:54):
hundred of us said, yeah, we're going to go to
Mississippi and buy land and we can't trust the infrastructure here,
so we're gonna build our own schools, We're gonna establish
our own community. I hate to be a Debbie Downer,
but I'm like, the white folks would come kill us.
They would come burn it down.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
As as they always have.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
They always have Angela from the Red Summer of nineteen
nineteen through the random acts of violence through the Greenwood
Dishrict of Tulsa to Elaine, Arkansas. And it wasn't just
me like men, women and children. They killed babies, Okay,
literal babies. So I think about that, and we'd have
to have like serious security. But pioneering is something to
(21:33):
think about for us in this time of danger. Should
we be pioneering someplace? Should we be setting up compounds someplace,
not as doomsdayers, but as you know, we're still keeping
our day jobs. We're not to go on occupy Wall Street,
but we are, you know, building something ourselves, and it's.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Getting back in touch with what we already know. Black folks,
after their liberation through the Emancipation Proclamation, pioneered their way
all the way out west. Yeah, set up whole communities
of formerly enslaved and held it down for fors.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And we don't talk enough about that migration.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
That is how into the family actually, because y'all were
in Louisiana, right and then losing, we focus so much
on Mississippi Chicago, but there, you know, we fanned out.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
All.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
I want to tell you guys real quick, since we
were talking about Georgia a little bit and Tip brought
up pioneering, you guys should look up in this for
the listeners and YouTube if you haven't. This group of
black folks that bought property like ninety six acres in
an area they called Freedom Georgia. I had I did
an interview with them that we lost. I would love
for us to talk to them. They do some incredible
(22:43):
things and they're calling it the Black Wall Street of
the New South and that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So I'd love to talk to them on site.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
Yeah, oh yeah, that would be great. Pay for it
to send us reparation.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Done done.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
All right, Well, this is a great forward hearing these folks.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Answers on the top five.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
I know I've looked forward to hearing y'all.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yes, I'm really gonna give this something. I had a
top nine, but we're gonna come back. We're gonna narrow
it down to our each of our top five. All right, well,
thanks for listening. Be sure to tell your friends about
these mini pods that drop, and remember the single pods.
Go back and make sure you check out Angela's sidepod
that she did on all the executive orders. She dropped
that last Tuesday, so you guys, make sure you check
(23:26):
that out. We are your host, Tiffany Cross, ANGELAA and
Andrew Gillim.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Welcome home, y'all, Welcome home, everybody.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Native Land Pod is the production of iHeart Radio and
partnership with Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
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Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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