Why Free Speech Costs More When You’re Black

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Resent Choice Media.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome home. Y'all, this is episode ninety eight of
Native Lampod, where we give you our breakdown of all
things politics and culture. We are your hosts, Angela Rae,
Tiffany Cross, and Andrew gillim. Y'all, what are we getting
into today?

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Well, I'm excited because we have two guests coming up,
Karen Attia, the former reporter now former reporter for the
Washington Post, and Ebanie McMorris, who was quite disrespected in
the Lighthouse this month by the President. So we're going
to get into both of those topics with them.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Andrew Rich, You've.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
Got well, I think we've got to got to revisit,
or rather visit for the first time on the show,
what went down with Jimmy Kimmel. More important, I think
our First Amendment rights here in the country being threatened
by federal government employees. So we'd love to dig into
that a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, and of course we have talked about Charlie Kirk,
but what we have not talked about is the Charlie
Kirk resolution on the House floor last week and a
surprising vote. We'll hear sound from Jasmine Crockett and talk
about that a little bit, so let's get into it.

Speaker 5 (01:17):
Welcome home, y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Native lampod will be live this weekend. I hope you
all tuned in. Last year, we did a live show
from the Phoenix Awards dinner at the Annual Legislative Conference
with my old CBC fam. We'll be there on Saturday,
September twenty seventh from five pm to seven pm Eastern.
We are going to have some great guests. I cannot
wait to see what Andrew and Tiff have on. It's

(01:43):
gonna be.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
A fashion show for the god y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
But we will definitely be there right before the dinner.
It is a black tie event, so we will be
a fancy. We will be fancy, and we have some
special announcement. You'll definitely want to tune in then, which
y'all got what you guys think about this?

Speaker 5 (01:58):
You excited?

Speaker 6 (01:59):
I'm excited.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
It's always exciting to be with the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation.
A lot of people say CBC week it is the
Congressional Black Caucus Foundations Annual Legislative Conference. I'm curious to
see what the crowds would be like given the federal
takeover of DC. Are people excited to come? Will it
be a bigger crowd than ever, or you know, will
the federal government scare people away. I think Angela, you

(02:21):
had some insight and that they ain't scared, and they
said we ready, and they're showing up by the droves.
I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of the folks here.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
It's been rumored that they've got pretty large RSVP and
registrations for the conference this year, so black folks are like,
I ain't scared, you don't terrify me, and let's hope
that that is true. I think it'll be a good week.
It's always good to reconnect with folks who are out
here working in the movement space from around the country.
And please do not get your expectations off of my wardrobe.

(02:50):
I promise you that, but I do plan and enjoy.

Speaker 6 (02:54):
It well good.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Just so you all know, to be clear, it is
going to be a live show. It'll be live on
YouTube and can also of course catch that replay in
our podcast Beat. If you haven't subscribed yet, subscribe now.

Speaker 5 (03:05):
It's a good time to do that.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Congressman. Congressman Charlie Kirk said that Charlie Kirk said that
MLK was a terrible person, and you voted to honor
Charlie Kirk. Why did you vote to honor Charlie Kirk
who said MLK was a terrible person. I voted civil
rights and voted to can't condemn plant violence. But he
was called honor Charlie Kirk Act. So you can do

(03:28):
a little fake screaming votes you did is we disrespected
a lot of people had damn And what do you
saying about Simone? What do you say about someone vials?

Speaker 6 (03:35):
He said Simon Biles was a sociopath.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
For sitting at the Olympics after she had been sexually assaulted.
Now's what Charlie Kirk said, And you voted to honor
him on your other colleague standing up. Okay, So your
other times you're voting against.

Speaker 7 (03:49):
It were wrong.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
And so Charlie k apparently had said that at the
Civil Rights Act was a mistake. Why did you vote
to honor him.

Speaker 5 (04:00):
I did not vote to honor them.

Speaker 8 (04:02):
I quoted against political violence, so that vote was against violence.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
The name of the bill is like honor Charlie Hirk.

Speaker 9 (04:13):
You voted and political violence.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
So what I think is very important about this, and
I'd love to hear you all thoughts, is we often
get asked what people can do at home, and I
think this clip is a remarkable, remarkable example of how
you can hold elected officials accountable even when they're not
used to it and they might get upset. In case
you all missed it, on this resolution, which is HRS

(04:40):
seven nineteen, which is House Resolution seven nineteen honoring Charlie Kirk,
both Judy Chu and Ted lou they've been tremendous fighters.
They voted yes on this amendment though. And so I
want to get into one more piece of sound, y'all
before we weigh in writ large and it is sound
from Dana Bash his interview with Jasmine Crockett, and I

(05:03):
want to get to this clip here to talk about
the resolution as well.

Speaker 8 (05:07):
On that note, I do want to turn to something
that you heard the Senator just say, which is he
was talking about a resolution that came before the House
this past week honoring Charlie Kirk, and there were fifty
eight Democrats who voted against it. You were one, Yeah, why. Absolutely.

Speaker 10 (05:26):
One of the things I do want to point out
that's not been laid out that honestly hurts my heart
is when I saw the no votes, there were only
two Caucasians. For the most part, the only people that
voted no were people of color because the rhetoric that
Charlie Kirk continuously put out there was rhetoric that specifically
targeted people of color, and so it is unfortunate that

(05:48):
even our colleagues could not see how harmful his rhetoric
was specifically to us. And I can tell you that
a month prior to him passing away, he had actually
gotten out on his podcast. I wasn't aware of this
at the time, but he got out there and he
was talking negatively about me directly. So if there was
any way that I was going to honor somebody who

(06:10):
decided that they were just going to negatively talk about
me and proclaim that I was somehow involved in the
great white replacement, yeah, I'm not honoring that kind of stuff,
especially as a civil rights attorney and understanding how I
got to Congress knowing that there were people that died,
people that were willing to die, that worked to make
sure that voices like mine could exist in this place,

(06:33):
so to me, just like we wanted to make sure
that those Confederate relics were taken down. The idea of
a new Age relic being propped up was something that
I just could not subscribe to. And it is unfortunate
that more of my colleagues, even on my side of
the aisle, could not see the amount of harm that
this man was attempting to inflict upon our communities.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
I wanted to just flag two portions. We've heard you
all about making sure that we lean into what we
know about what happened on Capitol Hill, and there's two
pieces in this resolution that I just wanted to call out,
in part because I don't know if my co hosts
have seen this, but there were two provisions whereas Charlie

(07:16):
Kirk would not have us respond to his death with despair,
but rather with renewed purpose, to speak truth, with courage,
to stand firm and faith, to seek unity while standing
firm and principle, and to serve as living reminders of
the values he championed, faith, family, and freedom. Now therefore

(07:37):
be it resolved, And I'm just going to skip down
to sub section four of the resolution honors the life,
leadership and legacy of Charlie Kirk, who steadfast dedication to
the Constitution, civil discourse, and biblical truth inspired a generation
to cherish and defend the blessing, the blessings of liberty.

Speaker 7 (08:03):
I just.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I think that it would be good for us to
talk about why there were only fifty eight no's on
this vote, just for.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
Some context for a few years. I know you said
their names, but two members we heard from were Congresswoman
Judy Chu, a former chair of the Congressional Asian American
Asian Specific American Caucus, and Congressmen Ted Lou. Both of
them are part of the California delegation. Judy two represents
California's thirty second district. Congressmen Ted Lou represents California's thirty

(08:32):
sixth district. The reason why I think that's important context
for the audience is because they are not in a
purple state. They are not in purple districts, their seats
are not in danger. So oftentimes, not that this is
an excuse, but oftentimes people will take these somewhat controversial
votes because they're afraid that their seats might be in danger.
That is not the case with either of these two members,

(08:56):
especially being part of the Tricaucus. I think it was
disheartening to see Congressman Ted lou who you know I've
had on my show before and had a good working
relationship with previously. It's disheartening to see them join the
rest of some of the members of the Tricocus who folded.

Speaker 6 (09:14):
I look.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
I think what our audience has been most vocal about
is our is the black community, and how angry and
disappointed people were to see the most senior Black person
in the House, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, who so many of
us were rooting for to become the first Black Speaker
of the House. He also voted in favor of this resolution.

(09:36):
And Angel please correct me if I'm wrong, but a
resolution is not a policy point. It is not attached
to a piece of legislation or law. So that was
has been some of their excuses as well, but it
is it's the symbolism that it sends, and I think
it's just a frustrating time for people because we saw

(09:57):
Congressman Leader Jeffries in his office, you know, in his
fitted with his hat to decide. Quoting Biggie and Jay Z, lyrics,
and when it comes down to actual policy, people were
disappointed are actual resolution votes.

Speaker 6 (10:11):
The same could be said for Senator Corey Booker.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
You know, people like some of these, you know, I
think publicity stunts, but when it comes down to actual legislation,
I think there's a lot of disappointment from the community.
So I just wanted to put that in context and
let our audience know that we too share your frustration.
We've seen your comments and you know, heard what you
had to say about it, and it's certainly not not

(10:34):
in an echo chamber of isolation, a lot of us
feel the same level of frustration.

Speaker 6 (10:38):
Andrew, what do you think?

Speaker 4 (10:40):
You know? I I don't understand how politicians, as seniors,
as these members who serve with the highest deliberative body
in the land, the Congress, the Household, the Senate. UH,
don't yet understand that you can decry the murdering of
someone and at the same time not whitewash their history,

(11:05):
their contributions, the harmful things that they may have done
or said with these sort of symbolic you know, resolutions
that I have to tell you even I know tivity.
You made the point that sometimes members who are in
purple districts or are in you know, particilarly contestable seats,
will will take tough votes that they may not have

(11:27):
in principle been one hundred percent for I just don't
know what voter out there come the next election is
going to say where did you stand on the Kirk
resolution to honor mister Kirk. And by the way, if
that is a question you get, you can probably already
resolve that that vote was never going to be for
you in the first place if you disagreed with the

(11:49):
way in which he lived certain parts of his life,
and those certain parts were pretty consequential for people who
found themselves in his crosshairs. I am worried that this
kind of tap dancing that Democrats are doing is going

(12:10):
to continue to steadily move the line of what is
appropriate by way of honoring the life of mister Kirk. So,
for instance, we now have a statewise superintendent of education
who has now required that the organization that he led,
Turning Point, which is now about to be led by

(12:30):
his widow, his wife, has to be has to have
a chapter on every school campus in the entire state.
And Angela, you probably know what state, And I'm I'm
I'm Eclipsey, Oklahoma at the moment. But so everyone in
the state of Oklahoma now has to have on their

(12:51):
school chapter on their school yards public school yards a
chapter for Turning Point USA, which is an organization that
ideologically I am strongly on the opposite side of, and
I imagine if more people knew what it was, they
would also find themselves there. So I'm very, very concerned
about the moving of the lines, the fact that in
Florida we're about to have a memorial road renamed for

(13:15):
Charlie Kirk. Again, these are ideas that are not universally
accepted by people. Unlike Martin Luther King who said, you know,
one nation this you know, one day this nation will
rise up to live out the you know, the true
meaning of its creed. I mean, those are conciliatory, just

(13:37):
and righteous words. I don't know how saying that Kamala Harris,
Katanji Brown Jackson women professional, successful, accomplished, highly credentialed women
don't have the brain capacity to manage complex things. And furthermore,
in suggestion that every other woman lesser and qualifications than

(14:01):
them can't possibly ascend to an acceptable level of brain
capacity to digest and to reckon with complex questions and things.
It just I'm weakened by them. I think this the
party is weakened by this leadership, if you want to
call it that. And I think overall it will not

(14:24):
serve Democrats well to tap dance on their belief system,
and I think this is just an example of that well.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
And if it is their belief system, right, I think
the thing that I want to call out is there
were ninety five Democrats that voted in favor of this resolution.
There were fifty eight who voted no, There were thirty
eight who voted present, and there were twenty two who
didn't vote at all, including some people in leadership. I
know for a fact jo Degose did not vote at all.

(14:54):
Joaquin Castro did not vote at all. There are people
who are our friends who did not vote at all.
And I think that the real challeng we have here
is that somebody said, well, you know, the party's fractured,
and I said, the party's done. The Democratic Party, as
far as I'm concerned, is done. Dixie Kratz have risen
their heads at this point, and I think that what

(15:16):
we're seeing is that it's a textbooked example of the
fact that white supremacy is oftentimes upheld by people who
look just like me and you, people who we can
find ourselves aligned with on so many other values. But
in this particular instance, and I do want to lift
up I don't know who the person was who shot
the video of Congressman Lou who is also the KPAC whip,

(15:40):
which means he whips votes for that caucus, the Asian
Pacific American Caucus, and Judy Chu, who has been a
long standing chair of the caucus. I just want people
to understand that this is not the hour to be conciliatory,
to be negotiating against political violence. This man tack someone
who is our dear sister friend Joy read so I

(16:04):
just I and Jasmine, and she said Jasmin Crockett, Congress
from Crockett and then after that, Jasmine taking him on.
And we're not going to have a bunch of time
to get into it today. But Laura Lumer taking on
Jasmine Crockett and the inflammatory, violent things she had to
say about her, calling her ghetto, calling her the B word,
Like this is not them tamping down or ramping down

(16:25):
this rhetoric. They're leaning into it. What this resolution does
is it empowers white supremacists to white supremacy. You know
what I mean? Like that is what is going on.
So I think we need to be very clear about
what this moment requires of us. The courage isn't just
going to be required by the citizens, by the people.
The courage is also required by the folks who have

(16:46):
been elected to serve the people. And that means that
if in case they forgot, in case there needs to
be an altar call, in case you need to recommit
your life, you need to be challenged. And you know
what every citizen has the right to do is call
your member, approach your member and ask them why make
them explain this vote. We at the very least deserve

(17:08):
that opportunity.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
I just want to can I just get some context
and also tak it to you, Andrew, But because you
reference Joonooz, Congressman Joe Nogoz is a member of Congress
from Colorado, and the context is important there because he's
the first Eritrean ever elected to Congress and when that happened,
it was a huge deal. I think that's important for
the audience to know because sometimes we celebrate black faces

(17:30):
in high places, and they are not necessarily carrying our voice.
Also Congressman Joaquin Castro, who is from Texas, and our
political memories can be short, but they were considered. He
and his twin brother, Julian Castro, were considered political leaders.
They were considered the next faces of the Democratic Party,
particularly after President Obama came into office. Julian Castro served

(17:50):
as HUT secretary during the Obama administration. And so to
see them even fall back now Texas, of course has
complicated politics. But to me, it's not courage if there's
no skin in the game. It's not courage if there's
no sacrifice. So I didn't even know that Jonah Goose
was one of the people. He didn't vote, Is that
what you were saying.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
He's the assistant assistant Democratic leader, so he's in leadership.
He did not vote. It all Democratic leadership said that
they were going to collectively vote yes to stop political violence,
to ramp down what was happening, as if voting in
favor of honoring a white supremacist and someone who has
been very violent and vitriolic in their rhetoric was going

(18:29):
to do that at all. And I think that what
they're going to have to do is learn the hard
way that the death threats will still come, that people
will still be targeting your life because there weren't doing
that because they were waiting to see if you could
be civil after Charlie Kirk was killed. They were doing
that because they don't like you. They don't want you
to be here. They don't want you to ascend to leadership.

(18:50):
They don't want you to represent them in the House,
the Senate, or in the presidency. They don't want you
to be on the Supreme Court. They don't want you
in their classrooms. They don't want you getting their contracts,
they don't want you getting their job. They want you
out of here. And so the sooner that we begin
to realize that and legislate and lead like we understand
what time it is, the better off.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Will be well. The drama continues. When we get to
the other side of this break, we'll talk Jimmy Kimmel.

Speaker 11 (19:31):
Hey man, my name is Jessica. I'm from pg County, Maryland.
I have a bunch of questions, but I'll send some
different videos. Today's question is in reference to the Kimo
situation that happened last night. Today is September eighteenth. What
are the levels of protests that investment or is there

(19:57):
anyone creating list or not list of companies, but lists
of ways to divest from certain things. For example, ABC
is owned by Disney. Level one unsubscribed from Disney Plus.
Cancel your cable subscription and that's in particular to them,

(20:21):
we unsubscribe to compare amount plus or whatever. What is
there anyone creating that type of list because everyone or
the majority of people are not going to go and
physically protests, but they may be able to save themselves
some money and.

Speaker 6 (20:44):
Protests.

Speaker 11 (20:46):
Uh, these companies bound into these idiots. So please enlighten
us if there are those type of resources.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
You know, I'm personally not aware of, you know, universal
platforms that that that monitor this stuff on a regular
basis and decide who we should and shouldn't boycott. Obviously,
economic boycotts are extremely powerful, and there are steps I
think of getting to economic boycott, and very specifically for

(21:18):
the black community, it's a it is a very very
strong cudgel that we have to reserve for the most
important times, which I think our community can collectively feel
and react to. Obviously, at the point that we're hearing
your question, and we thank you for it. You know,
ABC has of course again reversed its position. There was

(21:43):
an economic boycott that I don't know if it was
universally sanctioned or who put the word out, but people
absolutely did take it upon themselves to cancel their Disney
Plus subscriptions, their Hulu prescriptions, subscriptions, and and voice uh
lit voices be heard from the Actors' Guild to individual

(22:03):
citizens letting it be known to Disney that the First
Amendment right in this country is still sacrisanc for a
lot of people. It used to be sacrisank for Republicans,
that they doesn't appear to exist for many of them,
with a few exceptions. I was actually surprised to see
Ted Cruz and a few others come out strongly defending

(22:24):
the First Amendment. I do wonder where their voices have
been as the rest of the Constitution has been trampled on.
But at least maybe there is some break in the
you know, breaking the storm that there's some folks who
haven't lost all of their religion as relates to the Constitution.
But I think as it relates to economic boycotts, we
within our community have to be very protectionists around that strategy.

(22:47):
And when we move, we ought to move with force
and with impact. And I think that's how we bring,
you know, people who are against us, you know, to heal.
I'm not sure a few ladies have other thoughts on that.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
I think it leads us right into our next because
the Jimmy Kimmel situation got so much attention because of
the voices surrounding him and people even initiating the protests
that Andrew talked about. When it happened to a wealthy
white man, people gathered around, and I wish we could
have that same support for black women. And that brings
us right to our next guest, Karen Atia. She is

(23:19):
a writer, commentator, and editor. She had been with the
Washington Post since twenty fourteen. I used to love her
column she even wrote one about me, Thank you very much, Karen,
but she was abruptly fired. She was the last remaining
black columnist at the Washington Post, and then in the
aftermath of Charlie Kirk's murder, the Washington Post dismissed her.

(23:39):
So we're very excited to get into this conversation, Karen.

Speaker 6 (23:42):
Welcome home home.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
Thanks to finance. It's good to be here.

Speaker 6 (23:47):
And thank you for all the support and the work
that you've done.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Truly, absolutely, Karen, thank you. So we hear that there
are some things that are percolating given your experience at
the Washington Post. You want to share with our audience
today about your experience and your path forward. And also
congratulations on an amazing substack launch.

Speaker 7 (24:07):
Oh thank y'all. Oh gosh, it's been such a whirlwind.
I mean, I think I'm processing the shock of being
terminated via email, of all things, after eleven years with
the Post and with the opinion section. Right, so very briefly,
you know, in the aftermath of the Charlie kirkshirting and

(24:29):
not just the Charlie kirkshooting, but there was another shooting
out of Colorado School, I was thinking about someone who'd
shot up the CDC with five hundred bullets. I was
thinking about Melissa Hortman and Minnesota, who was assassinated, her
husband killed and her dog killed, right and in this
backdrop of America and gun violence and political violence. So

(24:50):
I was criticizing this sort of empty rhetoric around violence
has no plaques here, and this is not who we are,
and thoughts and prayers, and I was just like, enough,
this is who America is and.

Speaker 5 (25:03):
To be able to speak about this.

Speaker 7 (25:06):
The perpetrators so often of political extremists violence, and these
mass shootings, statistically, according to the FBAI, according to the DOJ,
have been white men, particularly young white men. And all
I said in my Blue Sky post was normalizing this
sort of coddling of violent white men as part of

(25:27):
what keeps America in this bloody status quo, right, And
so it was very.

Speaker 5 (25:32):
General and it was nothing.

Speaker 7 (25:34):
I've had some spicy takes, I know him, like my
takes are spicy because my alerts be looking crazy.

Speaker 5 (25:39):
This was none of that.

Speaker 7 (25:40):
This was very somber. I condemned the murder of Charlie
Kirk while also saying I was not going to go
over the top and perform mourning, tear my clothes and
smear ashes on my face, particularly for a man that
routinely disparage particularly black women, Black men called for lethal

(26:01):
violence against migrants, put some acquaintances I know on watch
lists that threaten their safety. I was not going to
engage in over the top emotionality performative and so I
said that and went about my day then twelve hours later,
I get a notice of termination from the Post saying
I had engaged in gross misconducts because I disparage Kirk

(26:27):
on the basis of race by mentioning white men. Again,
anyone can go back to my post. I've left them out.
That's how much I stand by them. I said, violent
white men. So this was un unjustifiring. I categorically reject
everything they said. I mean that I was putting my
colleagues in danger, that I posed a risk to the

(26:47):
Post after my eleven years putting my life on the
line to defend press freedoms, to defend other people, to
give people the right to speak, That.

Speaker 5 (26:56):
I was a risk.

Speaker 7 (26:57):
No. So the news today, coming out of all this,
I've had a whole lot of support. Decided to challenge
this and file an official grievance within the guild of
the Post. So we're definitely challenging this. That this was
without cause, This firing is without cause, without basis of
violated policy, and that I'm also still retaining the options

(27:22):
to take to take this further because this precedent cannot stand.
I was doing my job as a as a writer,
as a journalist, as a commentator while exercising restraint.

Speaker 5 (27:33):
And it's it's chilling.

Speaker 7 (27:35):
To me to see the Washington Post engaging in a
firing and basically sending the message that if you talk
about white men, your job is on the line. I
was being descriptive. I was being descriptive, not disparaging. As
uncomfortable as it might be to hear about these patterns,

(27:56):
that is the truth, and that's all I was doing.

Speaker 5 (27:59):
Was punished for telling the truth.

Speaker 7 (28:02):
So, like I said, not taking it, lying down, filing
a fight back within the posts with the grievance and
retained counsel with the Democracy Defenders and the Well, let's.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Go well that Jeff Bezos directly, because I know the
environment there changed grossly after Jeff Bezos acquired. And we
just had a question from a viewer asking, you know,
how can we protest these things? And when you consider
the tentacles that Jeff Bezos has and considering your loss,
we should mention that you were, of course the editor

(28:36):
for Jamal Kashoji, who was brutally murdered accused of you know,
we believe by the Saudi government, and we believe MBS
had a hand in it personally, and you were right
out front on that battle as well, given that there
are less than six percent of black people in positions leadership,

(28:58):
positions of newsrooms, and when you disaggregate that considering black
women's even less so, when Jeff Bezils took this over,
the environment likely changed for you as well. So does
your lawsuit name him? Is he or your potential lawsuit
your grievance, does it name Himmer target him directly?

Speaker 7 (29:14):
Yeah, we sent a letter to Washington Post leadership, and
you know we have noted these changes, particularly in recent years.
I can say from my experience, my experience has been
a bit of a one to eighty. I have a
bit of a whiplash. When I joined, I joined it
around the same time Bezos bought the paper, so I
actually joined at a time when there was a lot
of diversity. I mean I was a high ranking senior

(29:37):
editor in a way in the opinion section. And again
I've been in the opinion section my entire career, meaning
I was paid to give opinions, and paid to the
surface opinions, and paid to also defend people whose opinions
might have not have been sort of accepted all the time.

(29:58):
A part of what is so chilling about this time
is that the Post, particularly when my writer Jamalkastrucci was killed,
we put ourselves front and center as defending press freedom
around the world, that you should not be silenced and
punished just for critiquing your country. That's what Jamal did.
He loved his country, he loved Saudi Arabia, and they

(30:21):
still murdered him for it. And at the time the
Post was stood behind me, stood behind Jamal. You know,
in a way, we went all sorts of recognition, all
sorts of rewards, and we're the embodiment of what it
should look like when an institution has their writers and
editors backs. Now I am being thrown under the bus

(30:46):
despite putting my physical safety on the line for this institution,
and not just this institution. It's really because I do
truly believe that the ability to express yourself the First Amendment,
is the one right that guarantees all the other rights.
If we cannot name, if we cannot express, if we

(31:07):
cannot even refer to to data and facts, it makes
it so much harder to fight for every single other right,
makes it so much harder to fight for our communities.
Particularly as a black journalist. It makes it damn near
impossible to talk about race if this is the precedent
that is being sent so right now, this is not
I've never changed, it's the Post that's changed. And I

(31:32):
guess for me, sorry, I'm so passionate about this.

Speaker 5 (31:35):
It's just I've.

Speaker 7 (31:36):
Talked to my colleagues who remain at the Post and outside. Again,
I was an opinion journalist, meaning I have a broader
range of latitude, even under the social media policy, to
be able to not only express myself, but to advocate
as well, to write about the world is I think
that it should be. That's what my editor, Fred Hyatt
told me to do as a journalist. And so to

(32:00):
see the posts abandon those values so in such a
way puts a target on other journalists. Spot puts a
target on black journalists. Spot put a target on anyone
who's trying to talk about race, put a target on
their back. And so, you know, what I'm hoping out
of this is that there is a reversal, because you know,

(32:22):
for me, it's bigger than a job. It's about protecting
our ability to be able to speak the truth and
to protect particularly black journalists safety to do their jobs.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
So important and Karen. We were so grateful that you
could join us. We know you have a heart out.
Best of luck with your complaint and keep up the fight.
We know it's not just for you, it's for all
of us. So thank you so much. And speaking of
a black journalists who have been under attack, we have ebanygmore.
Mcgmore is joining us now from American Urban Radio Network

(32:55):
and she is the White House correspondent there. This just
happened this week with President Trump.

Speaker 5 (33:02):
Let's roll the clip going into.

Speaker 12 (33:03):
New York too, and we're going to be going in quiet.

Speaker 5 (33:06):
You're really obnoxious.

Speaker 12 (33:08):
I'm not obnoxious, but I'm trying to ask you what
about your plans?

Speaker 9 (33:12):
I'm not obnoxious, but I am acting. What are your
plans for Memphis? Many people?

Speaker 4 (33:16):
I'm not going to talk to you until you what
are your who else?

Speaker 5 (33:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Go ahead, I actual want to sell this.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
So E mean, we just saw what took place with
you and the President in the Oval Office. You have, are,
of course decorated journalist, long time twenty years. You spent
time at NBC and News one before going to American
Urban Radio Networks. Tell us what that experience was like
for you and just what you've been going through since.

Speaker 9 (33:46):
Thank you. Let me just first say thank you, thank.

Speaker 12 (33:49):
You for this platform, platforms like Native lampod that allow
us to tell our story and keep each other's names
in our mouths so that we continue, we can continue
telling our story in the moment that it happened, because
I had seen this president rage bait and beret so

(34:11):
many people over and over again, particularly black women, and
we know the roll call, and you just had caring
on to talk about what happens when we speak up.

Speaker 9 (34:23):
I was angry.

Speaker 12 (34:24):
I went in and at the time thinking about what
we're seeing with Charlie Kirk, and also there was a
bust of Lincoln for President Lincoln right in front of us,
while I also remember that the President just put up
a painting of Roberty Lee.

Speaker 9 (34:43):
It wasn't making.

Speaker 12 (34:44):
Sense, and I just wanted to know what was going
on with Memphis. And I had said in my mind
because I'm always in there pressing and answering, but that day,
I just I was fed up with it and I
wanted to know what happened, and I didn't want to
get off topic, and he.

Speaker 9 (34:58):
Had a rant.

Speaker 12 (34:59):
We've seen him do these twenty minute thirty minute rants
and they're never about anything. So I wanted to get
to some substance. And when he called me obnoxious, instantly,
no I'm not, but I also know that you're trying
to get us off. He said it again, No I'm not.
When he told me to be quiet, I did pause
for a quick second, but then I came back because

(35:21):
I was just tired of it. I didn't even think
that the moment would be what it was for me.
I was just like, I'm tired, and my know was
because I felt like you were saying black folk are obnoxious,
White black black women are obnoxious, and.

Speaker 9 (35:36):
It felt a little personal, and so in.

Speaker 12 (35:39):
That moment, I was like, I'm not going to back down,
but I need to know about Memphis because I'm a
native Washingtony and I'm here. I see what's happening in
these streets. I see you put forth the plans and
militarize the streets, and then I see you put forth
a plan to address homelessness, but you never really do it.
And so I was tired of it, just like so
many other journalists and Tiffany, you know, so being on

(36:01):
the hill and coming so many stories, our voices get
muffled so much, and most people don't know. They're literally
only a handful of black owned and operated stations that
are even in that press briefing, that alone in the pool.
And so we wonder why why aren't we hearing this
and why aren't we hearing this story? It is because
they're not that many of us in there. So that's

(36:23):
why platforms like this are.

Speaker 9 (36:24):
Important, are important.

Speaker 12 (36:26):
You're not gonna hear many of our stories on mainstream media.

Speaker 9 (36:30):
It's just not happening.

Speaker 12 (36:31):
And when you do, it is absolutely not covered in
the same way with the same black voices. And in
that moment, I was just I was just tired of
him calling on the person to the left and to
the right over and over. The other questions that I
had was about the hanging of Trey Reid. The other
questions that I had was why did you scrap the

(36:51):
DOJ website when we know and Karen was talking about
this the amount of violence that we see coming from
right wing organizations, But instead we got this whole speech
about him going after Democrats when the DJ report that
they're trying to hide say something very different. It is infuriating.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
I gotta say, your professionalism was actually on full display.
The irritation, annoyance, and disrespect that you felt in that
moment really was overcome by your professionalism rising to the top,
by you not returning disrespect with disrespect. You stood completely

(37:38):
in your right as a journalist to ask a legitimate question,
and you expected, well you hope for it, anyway, a
real and legitimate response from the man who sits in
the most powerful position in all the land. I got
to imagine that having the hour of the President of
the United States and the army of really dangerous people

(37:59):
now calling them all that, but many of them dangerous
people who follow him, who then take things to the
next level that put your person in harm's way. I
would love if we know one of your previous colleagues,
April Ryan, also found herself sort of in those crosshairs,
and I remember during that time her sharing with us

(38:21):
just how dangerous it felt. And so my question really is,
to your person, how are you making sure that you
stay protected, safe, secure, and more than anything on your job.

Speaker 9 (38:38):
Well, let me just first say, April was one of
the first people that called me.

Speaker 12 (38:43):
Immediately, she said, and I wasn't even thinking, I just
know I want to hurry to get out of the
White House. I wanted to get in my car. And
that was really my first one, me get out of here.
I didn't even look online. I didn't even know people
were sharing.

Speaker 9 (38:55):
She called and she says, this, good job. She was like,
you did that. She was like, but she told me.

Speaker 12 (39:01):
She began to share more of her story and how
she began to protect herself. And I said to her,
I said, April when we elected Trump in office. Before that,
I had to have a conversation with friends and family.
Let me just tell you how this ride may look.
Let me just tell you what even our children. Let
me tell you what we're not posting, what we're not doing,
because we first, safety is first right. And in addition

(39:22):
to that, I've had other colleagues and other journalists reach
out to me. But it is a very real situation.
So it wasn't like I came out like, oh I
did this.

Speaker 9 (39:32):
No.

Speaker 12 (39:32):
I was like, let me get home and let me
notify my husband just what happened, just so we can
all be safe.

Speaker 9 (39:38):
So our community. I'm in the community all the.

Speaker 6 (39:40):
Time, not just here.

Speaker 12 (39:42):
I'm at the White House, I'm helping people on the street.
I'm feeding the homeless. I'm very involved my husband's and pastors,
so we actually go out on the street on the
weekends and help those who are addicted to drugs. Right,
and so I'm seeing where we're real life and where
policy is having a detrimental effect.

Speaker 9 (39:57):
But one thing that he said.

Speaker 12 (39:58):
When I was talking to my baby girl that I've
shared is that she said, she said, he called you obnoxious.
She said, obnoxious means unpleasant, And I said, you know
why it is? It is times that we like this
that we have to be unpleasant. When we look at
Ida b wells and there were black bodies hanging from trees,
she had to be unpleasant. When Emmett Till was brutally murdered,

(40:21):
his mother had to be unpleasant to show the world
what this country looks like. So fine, I was upset
at the obnoxious thing, but I'll be obnoxious when it
comes to getting the truth out and protecting my community
and all of us, even you on here on this
on a Native lampod. I know people have come for you.
We see it online. I did finally go to Twitter

(40:41):
and I saw someone say here she is maga get her.
I was like, but but what I am not going
to allow you to do is to take your white
nationalist faith rapid around across, be indign about it, put

(41:01):
Jesus as your mascot, and act like you are fighting
for justice when you are not.

Speaker 9 (41:07):
And so that's why our voices are important.

Speaker 12 (41:10):
I had if it wasn't for out likes like this
and those who are online, and people like April and
Dante Wright who's with Black blackpr dot com, and Zena
and other voices that we hear on daily calling and
saying we got you, it.

Speaker 9 (41:29):
Would be it would make them fight that harder.

Speaker 12 (41:31):
But one thing I heard Jimmy Kimmel's day, because that's
sixth day, that number six six days.

Speaker 9 (41:36):
They did this in six days he was back on air.
He said, if it wasn't for your.

Speaker 12 (41:43):
Voices rising up, mine would not be heard. And I
think we have to take that to heart because if
it is not for our voices, other black journalists like
like you, Me, Shau Sendor, like even cow Say, Karen
Hughes and Reesee Cobird so many and Karen speaking out

(42:05):
speaking truth to power.

Speaker 9 (42:08):
Right, we would not be able to get our stories out.

Speaker 12 (42:10):
So the action forward, I would say, because people are
saying what do we do We we number one, have
to realize that our voices, uh are not to be taken.

Speaker 9 (42:20):
You can take anything you want, people say, what about
your past? You can take the White House pass, you
can take whatever you want. But I'll be on the.

Speaker 12 (42:26):
Other side of that gate, speaking truth to power. My
voice is not yours to take. And that is how
we have always been able to push through in this hour.
And so I need people to understand that the power
of the press, the power of free speech, is extremely important.
We have a president who was literally created an enemy's
list and.

Speaker 9 (42:44):
Told you who is on the list? Yeah, and people
still don't believe it.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
I don't well, you know, I just want to say,
go ahead, no Angelo, Oh sorry, no, go for it.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Just really quick for context, Ebanie. I heard you say
that you the first thought was let me get out
of here when you were in the White House. And
what I love about this is you are now in
a space where you will be surrounded by your large, accepted,
chosen Black family. You're there at the CBC Foundations and
your legislative conference set up at the au r In booth.

(43:19):
I'm gonna come see y all today. The noise I'm sorry, No,
that's right, but I wanted to make sure people knew
that you were in the noise of comfort, especially in DC.
We want to find those spaces like that. And I
just want to say I'm actually on my way to
an event from the State of the People with the
CBC Foundation, but I want to say thank you for
being a voice of comfort, of reason, of conviction in

(43:43):
halls where many of us cannot go, where many of
our folks have never been. And I just really really
appreciate you for your courage in this moment.

Speaker 5 (43:51):
It is hard.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
We're seeing that few and far between. There are a
lot of people not leading with conviction and courage, and
so thank you for standing on the shoulders of I
to be weals and so many others that have preceded you.
You are a powerful voice and we are definitely here
to support you. My sister Tip, I yelled up.

Speaker 6 (44:07):
Sorry, that's okay.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
I'm glad you said that, And I think it's important
is to say that heaven he is at the Congressional
Black Hawks Foundation. Yeah, yes, thank you for being there.
I echo ten times everything Angelis said. I wanted to

(44:29):
ask you because of course it's journalists we do not
want to be the story. We are trained, we are
not the story. And so so many times on young
people say I want to be a journalist. I think
they think that means you go on TV and give
your opinion. But no journalists listen more than we speak.
We are there to interrogate, not to offer our thought.
But even with that lens, I think what you're saying

(44:51):
is so important because often what is considered unbiased is
rooted in what's white and male. When you are insulted
by the President of the United States, of course you
have a right to say no, mister President, I am
not obnoxious, and you proceed with your story. And when
he's not calling on you, you not only have a right,
but an obligation to your audience to ask your question.
It happens all the time, and it's not courage if

(45:14):
there is no fear there. Courage only comes in the
space of fear. And when you choose in that moment
to stand up and say no, despite everything that may
happen to me, I am going to press forward and
ask my question.

Speaker 6 (45:26):
Truly, in the spirit of Ida B.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
Wells, who was talking about white women sleeping with black
men in the Deep South and threatening, you know, with
multiple threats to her life. So I think that's just
an important context for you when you're navigating newsrooms where
most of the people do not look like us. We
run up against our career ambition, can often butt heads

(45:50):
with our humanity when there are white executives who tell
us what is appropriate, what is considered unbiased.

Speaker 6 (46:00):
I'm just curious.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
How you navigate that and any advice you have to
people who might look at certain people and say, well,
you're not really speaking for me, or why didn't they
do this to give any insight to the viewing audience
who may not understand what happens behind the scenes, particularly
in broadcast news.

Speaker 12 (46:19):
Thank you for that question, because you know, and I
know it is hard. I have been in those spaces,
and most people may not know how your day will start.
You come together with the meeting with the reporters and
the producers, and you decide what you will cover.

Speaker 9 (46:35):
And I remember a particular incident.

Speaker 12 (46:37):
This is around when the housing around the housing crash
in eight and we were all there talking and I
heard someone say I was probably one of two black
people in the room, and they said, I just don't
understand why why certain communities are having such a hard time.
I mean, if you just pay your bill or if
you just do this. And in that moment, I was

(47:00):
I was very young at the time. I bridled my tongue,
but I was so angry, and I was like, I
didn't know what to say.

Speaker 9 (47:06):
And there are a lot of journalists.

Speaker 12 (47:07):
Now I'm a little different because I don't mind speaking out,
but then I didn't.

Speaker 9 (47:10):
Know how to handle it.

Speaker 12 (47:11):
And there's so many journalists who are in meetings in
white spaces, and You're like, how do I lift up
my voice? How do I get my how do I
control the narrative? And what I began to do was
first to begin to get to understand who was in
my space, because at that time, I was just I

(47:32):
was going to work, I was doing whatever, great network,
but I was like, I need to connect with more
black journalists who are covering these stories, because I didn't
really at the time.

Speaker 9 (47:40):
I was just happy to be there.

Speaker 12 (47:41):
I was young, and so I said, now I need
to connect, I need to network more because we have
always worked amazing in the dark, right, And so I
began to huddle and talk with them and plan and
figure out how do we tell our stories. If I
can't tell, let me feed you this information. It is
almost like an underground railroad network when it comes to

(48:03):
some of these programs, and I'm talking about one that
lead right and ones that lead that lean left as well.
Please don't get it twisted. You will find this fight.
It doesn't matter where you go. And as I begin
to do that, it was it was help for me.

Speaker 9 (48:19):
It was shoring.

Speaker 12 (48:20):
It gave me hope, and it also showed me where
I can plant my voice in other independent papers. And
so you don't always have to stay where you are.
Don't know what your contract looks like. But I need
us to also just reach out to each other, to
keep each other's names in your mouth. When I finished this,
one of the first people to reach out was also
Seanna Renee, a doctor Wilmer Leon on XM. And after

(48:44):
each conversation we always huddle what can we do from here?

Speaker 9 (48:48):
What can we do from here? What is this? What
does safety look like for our community?

Speaker 12 (48:53):
Because as you know, there may be a day and
this goes for anyone in any industry that the rug
may be snatched from under you in the middle of
you thinking that you're great and if you don't have
a safety net, if you don't have a community built up,
it is hard. So I'm telling people wherever you are.

(49:14):
You may not have been let go, you may be
still on the job, but I need you to prepare
because if not, you'll be beholden to a check. I
need you always tell people build on the side. If
someone wants to say goodbye to you tomorrow, what will
you do? And that may come to you when you
have a message. This is so deep down in your

(49:34):
spirit that you need to cry out and you need
to get out, but you're afraid create community. I've been
doing that. I love being at American Urban Radio Networks.
But I also have to know what the purpose is
that God has put inside of me. And that is
just like everybody else. We always talk about I ain't
trying to go Bible on you, but we always talk

(49:55):
about Essa for such a time as this. But you
gotta understand the role of Mordecai. Mordecai is the one
that had to push her, tell her story and to
tell her what would happen if she did not. And
in that I said, I'll still raise up another but
this is gonna affect you so where that Mortecai represents
those communities, those people around you, And so I want

(50:15):
everybody to be safe, but do not allow someone to
control your voice. That may be the only thing you
leave with in a place because you've been through it.
I've shed tears when I've seen because I've been where
I've had to speak out and then had to figure

(50:37):
out how I was gonna figure myself and be honest
with you.

Speaker 9 (50:39):
Had had a message or on my door.

Speaker 12 (50:41):
That I was gonna get evicted because I.

Speaker 6 (50:44):
Lifted up my voice.

Speaker 9 (50:44):
I was tired. I was tired, like I'm here now,
but I know you. I know both of y'all.

Speaker 12 (50:50):
When them tears start hitting them pillows and you're like,
oh my god, and ain't nobody covering you or coming
back for you? And the headline is gone, what do
you have?

Speaker 9 (51:00):
I have got and I have my voice.

Speaker 12 (51:02):
I promise you I will not be silenced no matter
where I am.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
I just wanna, I.

Speaker 9 (51:08):
Wanna thank you.

Speaker 12 (51:08):
I'm gonna thank the journalists who didn't who weren't able
to you know, their names weren't told.

Speaker 9 (51:14):
I see you, the different outlets n.

Speaker 12 (51:17):
N PA, I see you the work that we do
and people don't realize we don't a lot of these outlets.
We don't have a whole lot of money. People always
fusting where are you at? It was Roland who called
me and was like, sis, I got you just pulled
me over sometimes.

Speaker 5 (51:30):
What do you need?

Speaker 6 (51:31):
What do you need?

Speaker 9 (51:32):
And we have to do that. Lastly, I'll say, and
I'm gonna keep saying this.

Speaker 12 (51:37):
People pull their money six days, y'all over three billion
dollars six days for Target. We had to do a
press conference. Try to figure out what day is it
gonna start?

Speaker 9 (51:48):
Are you gonna do it?

Speaker 5 (51:48):
Well?

Speaker 9 (51:49):
What we got left?

Speaker 12 (51:50):
No, there was no press conference. People just immediately reacted.
I needed to be an immediate reaction in these days
and in these times. And so if you canceled your subscript,
my question is where you gonna.

Speaker 9 (52:01):
Put that money now? Are you gonna put it in
black media?

Speaker 12 (52:03):
Are you gonna put it in someone who is actually
lifting up your voice and caring for your people? Where
you gonna put yourself? I'm glad that he's back on
the air. However, my question is those of us who
care about our community, and you cancel your subscription, what
you're gonna do with that money now?

Speaker 9 (52:17):
You're putting it back.

Speaker 5 (52:17):
Into the system.

Speaker 9 (52:19):
Are you gonna feed something to feeds you?

Speaker 4 (52:21):
Hey man, can you pass the collection plate anybody?

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (52:26):
The gold one? Put the gold one out, not the silver.
We want the gold plate moving around because you your
words are so true. They they ripple throughout every aspect
of our community, no matter where you are inside journalism, outside,
at the janitor, wherever you are. Those are These are
really key lessons that all of us in these days,

(52:49):
we probably should have been doing it all along. But
if it isn't clear now, it's there's it won't get clean.
You'll never pick it up if you don't pick it
up right now, if you don't know right now that
our lives are threatened on every single side. And at
the end of the day, all we got is.

Speaker 12 (53:06):
Us to the four hundred thousand black women who lost
their jobs, to at least a cook to every week,
we got the roll call.

Speaker 9 (53:14):
He gave you the list.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
That's it. That's it. Since continued, Oh man, just we
thank you for what you've done already. And I only
I only eyes have not seen, ears have not heard.
That's all I know. I love it, that's all I know.

Speaker 12 (53:34):
I just want to say thank you, and Tiffany, I
always want to tell you when you told when you
all launched this, and I saw you wipe the tears
from your eyes, I was like, since I literally wanted.

Speaker 6 (53:46):
To be like, I got you.

Speaker 9 (53:49):
How do we get each other?

Speaker 12 (53:50):
Support each other with our mouths and with our dollars,
with our time, you thoughts and prayers. That's fine, but
I would love prayer is an action. There is what
would get my strategy, and then God showed me what
what action I need to take.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Thank you, Thank you, Evan. I appreciate that, and I
got you as well. When I see you, I'm gonna
give you a big church tug because true, yes, all right,
thank you just what Jesus got it. Thank you for
your work as a journalist, for speaking truth to power,

(54:30):
and for standing your ground and asking the questions that
need to be asked. Because at the root of all
this was a very important story, uh, and that is
the potential federalization of cities, mostly black cities, across our country.
So thank you for asking about Memphis. I do want
to acknowledge that, yes, of course, we are familiar with
the stories around the hanging. I've actually been making calls.

(54:51):
There was similar stories that happened in Mississippi that I
carried on my show that I had at MSNBC. So
that is something that we'll be looking into and talking
about here on Native lampod. But journalism continues as it
always will. And what I have to remind myself as
i'll share this with you, is Ido b Wells had
a fraction of what we had. The Chicago Defender had
a fraction of what we had, and they were still

(55:13):
able to inform the masses, not always opine, but inform.
And there is a huge difference. And right now is
a time for reading, consuming news and reading books. You guys,
it is a time for reading books. So just thank
you for all of that, and I look forward to
seeing you this week at the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation's

(55:34):
Annual Legislative Conference. As you know, we'll be broadcasting live
from the dinner, so if you happen to be in
the area, definitely please dot buy so we can see
you in person. We'll be broadcasting live there I believe
five to seven, yes, so you can catch us on
YouTube there and you of course can catch us in person.
Looking forward to seeing you soon and thank you so
much for joining us.

Speaker 5 (55:54):
Evan.

Speaker 6 (55:55):
We'll have to have you back real soon.

Speaker 9 (55:56):
Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. We were
made for the movement.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
That's that's all right, Thank you, Thank you, Andrew. I
you know, I wanted to ask you a question, but
I was trying to debate if I should ask while
she was.

Speaker 5 (56:11):
There or not.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
But I mean, you, since you were I think nineteen,
have been an elected office. You have been pressed by
uh members of the press about so many things or
policy to your personal life. I have never seen you
be disrespectful to a member of the press. You have
shown up because I hate what people call Donald Trump,

(56:33):
like this macho man, this big strong man, and this
alpha male.

Speaker 6 (56:36):
No he's not.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
He's a little Beyonce really, And you have never like
you have staid there like a man.

Speaker 6 (56:41):
Every time.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
It's like, I'm gonna look you in your eye, I'm
gonna answer your question. If I don't have an answer
for you, I'm gonna get back to you. I mean you,
and you didn't bullshit people, you know, like you were
genuinely vested in the work, and you respected members of
the press to engage them. So I'm just curious when
you see things like this happen, Like, what is your
reaction as someone who's an elected official for so long

(57:04):
that behavior would not have been tolerated.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
Tiffany Is It's one it's hard to even posit yourself
in the mind of a Donald Trump, right, because scientists
are going to have to diagnose a new level of
megalomania after Donald Trump. I mean, when you take and
fullness his speech to the United Nations, if you could

(57:26):
call it that, I mean, on so many levels he
went from you know, high mighty two in the gutter
to dig in the graves too. I mean, it was
just it was, it was, it was unbelievable. I mean,
I don't want to say unprecedented because that's overused. And

(57:48):
you know, every day it becomes more precedented because people then,
you know, follow his example and try to out Trump
Trump right. Republicans are now trying to out Trump Trump
and so. But but these guys who were so egotistical,
they're so caught up in themselves they can't even His
umbrage that he took was fueled, in my opinion, not

(58:08):
only by the typical level of egotism, but it was
it was further fueled by the fact that the man
has it. And for black women, he got issues with
black man too. But but but they're never on display
quite the way his the umbridge. He takes from black women.
I don't know where. I mean, there's Tiss James out there,

(58:30):
there's Fanny Uh down in Georgia.

Speaker 7 (58:34):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
There's obviously April Ryan that was in the White House
Press Corps. There's folks like you and Angela. I mean
absolutely so. So he feels very held to account and
almost almost like and this is actually a truism. I
think it's sort of like black women are not like
are not are not docile and believe in the hype.

(58:56):
It's you all have a third eye that says I
see you, I see all of you, and you're not
really flammocks by the by the contours, by the makeup.
It's like, okay, you got makeup, you had a nice
suit on, but I know who you are and I'm
gonna ask you this question and respect for the office,
but also in full awareness of who you are. Donald

(59:19):
Trump does not want to be seen for who he is.
You all seem to cut through in a way that
that causes him injury, and he takes it out like
any third grader, and no offense of third graders I got,
I got one at home. But he's a narcissist, as
most of you know about me, me me, me, me,

(59:40):
me me right, And and that's sort of what it
is for him. And he can't see the forest for
the trees, wouldn't spot the tree anyway unless it was
a direct resemblance of himself. That's how in himself he is.
He's a narcissist. This behavior is not tolerated. But Tiffany,
I just want to quickly draw the point that all
of this is connected back to that result that we

(01:00:00):
started this show with. When Democrats and our leaders give
a permission structure for Republicans to rewrite history, whitewash history,
you know, expel any of the truth about a person's
character that is not one and a positive light, we
create the permission structure for them to continue to do that.

(01:00:23):
When we join in with the kind of really propaganda
that the Republicans were pushing through this resolution. If you
wanted to decry political violence, they had the option of
producing a resolution that was titled decrying political violence. They
had the opportunity to do that. They didn't don't buy

(01:00:46):
that as an excuse. So all I'm saying is is
when we let them get away with stuff like Charlie Kirk,
and then there's a road, and then there's going to
be a national holiday, and then there's so when you
give a little bit, he takes a mile. Check out
his social media. He said, maybe I'll take ABC back
to court. The last time they gave me, I don't know,

(01:01:06):
twenty seven million. This time it'll be much more lucrative.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
He doesn't respect the fact that they that they they'll
bide to him. He didn't respect that before. He sees
it as a weakness and now he wants to go
in for the kill. Yeah, and we got to get better,
that's what That's what we're losing because we're learning the
wrong lesson.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
I echo all of that, and I know a lot
of our viewers have the same frustrations. And so I
one thank you all for tuning in, for sending in
your questions, your videos. If you like this discussion, please
share it. You know, we're not always giving a how to,
and this is what you can do sometimes. It's just
good to be in community with each other and recognize

(01:01:49):
the threat give a name to what we're feeling. So
we try to do that here every week on native
Land Pod. So please be sure to subscribe and share
everything with us. And if you do have a video,
it doesn't have to be a question as long as
it's under sixty seconds. You can DM it to us
on our Instagram native land Pod handle. There you can
also email it to us. I'll give all that information

(01:02:10):
at the end of the show. But please do share
this conversation with with your crew with drop it in
your group chat. Because what I've noticed, Andrew is when
we talk about it, it is like loosening the bottle
a bit, you know, like it is at least I
can say this out loud to someone. And I'm so
touched by our viewers for Wanging.

Speaker 7 (01:02:30):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Speaking of the survey, Yes, thank you guys so much
for Wang And I went through and read every single comment,
so for all you know, I live in the comments,
So for everybody who took the time to not only
fill out the survey but also give very thoughtful feedback
that was constructive criticism, celebration of what we do, suggestions

(01:02:53):
for what we can do better, just every single comment. Truly,
it made me feel so touched it, truly did Andrew
the overwhelming thought on Andrew, and I'm not going freshy
today because I know you get tired of us and
asking you this question. But seriously, as you overwhelmingly people
were asking you to please run for office. So just

(01:03:13):
putting that out there.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
Well, I will. I want to join you in thanking
our viewers, the listener family. No, hell no, but but
I look, God works, right, and so I'm just you know,
I will be obedient. Yeah, but but but only until
that that shifts such as that will take place. But

(01:03:36):
I was blown away by the number of people who
who decided to take the survey into respond. It told
me that our listeners, our family out there, really they
have ownership in this platform. You're there, and because of
that ownership, we have to and I feel this every

(01:03:58):
week we have to be at the best of what
we can be when we come in every week, knowing
what it is that we need to know, not not
trafficking and misinformation, making sure that we've tried to at
least assess something from the various lenses that we all
bring to this table. And while it may not be perfect,

(01:04:21):
it will be the best of what we can give
at that time and what we don't know, admit to
not knowing, and make room for further growth if it's necessary.
But I just it touched me to know that as
much as I love this show and you all, as
my sisters and my and my obviously my coworkers and
friends here, that there's a whole squad of folks who

(01:04:43):
feel as invested, you know, as I think we feel
with the responsibility of this platform, the opportunity and the
privilege of it, but in this time also the organizing
power that I think that we can possess as it
as it is required, and so it's it's soul food.

(01:05:03):
It is food for my soul, and it was really
comforting to see that it's food for a lot of
people's souls. And so consistent with your with your earlier requests,
please share, you just subscribe, bring other people to this
space so that they can also find some level of
release and hope. I think as as as we come

(01:05:25):
across one of.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
The comments, the only one I kind of disagreed with.
Somebody was like, uh, Tiffany, what was a few comments
like this? But one person got very specific and said
that I should talk more about my personal life.

Speaker 9 (01:05:36):
And I was like, good, dang, y'all want me to
sit here naked?

Speaker 6 (01:05:38):
Did I take you with my therapy?

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
We want you to name check this man? Talk about
what else?

Speaker 11 (01:05:50):
Do y?

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
I want to know?

Speaker 6 (01:05:52):
What can I say? I try to be really open,
but anyway, I really loved, I enjoyed.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
I find you very open about it. But I also
con I also conflate our one on one conversations, probably
with what we may have said.

Speaker 6 (01:06:05):
Sometimes it feels like I'm just talking to you and Angela.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
And then when I see people out on the street
and they repeat something that I've shared here that was
very personal to me, I'm like, why do.

Speaker 6 (01:06:14):
You even know that? I yes, And it gives people
a sense of like they know me, you know, and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
You were talking about this, I was like, oh, I forget.
I literally forget that there's a whole audience out there
listen to what we say.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
But Tiffany, that's a gift to the extent that people
feel a level of comfort. I get this all the
time with you know, out about my kids. I don't
post on social media, but our jay is, uh, she
is very fanatical about you know, the share so I'll
hear things from people about my kids. Oh my goodness.

(01:06:55):
But at the same token, again there's a buy in
there and an owners it almost a protection. I feel
like Carolina, you're gonna be out here, there are eyes
on you, girl, you better watch your watch yourself and
so on and so forth. But it is a gift
that that you're able to invite people into your space.
I think we all try to do it to the
level that they feel comfortable. Was like miss Rye and

(01:07:17):
the antipy, Yes, yes.

Speaker 6 (01:07:19):
Yes, well I I really I enjoy it. That was
my favorite part reading all the comments.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
So and of course I always read all the comments
on YouTube, and they we're pretty consistent, Like I find like, oh, YouTube,
I think gives me a snapshot and if there's ever
anything I need to gut check myself on or just
check myself.

Speaker 6 (01:07:35):
And I think the comments are really hopeful. So thank
you guys. We should get the call.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
As I always say to you, can you distill for
me what I need to know is do it.

Speaker 6 (01:07:44):
I know people say it's bad to be in the comments,
but I can take it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
No no, no, no, no, I don't. I don't think that.

Speaker 6 (01:07:51):
Stay out the comments. But I really can't. I can
take it. When people have criticisms.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
Of course, they are always like the bots and like
the Maga people, so I kind of skip past those.
But people who have great feedback for me, even when
it's criticism, or even when it's something I disagree with,
I do disappreciate because they took the time to say
anything about the show. So I keep them coming, and
definitely feel free to hop on video and send us
a comment, even in disagreement, and we'll do a better
job of very specifically answering your questions, because that was

(01:08:16):
some of the feedback we got as well. Well, you
know viewers that ask a question and y'all kind of
talk about it, but then you move on. So we
want to start specifically addressing your questions or comments.

Speaker 6 (01:08:26):
And we are always.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
Thrilled to hear from you and just give you all
the utmost respect, and so even if our are playing
the dozens sometimes comes to consent the way, we want
you to know we have the utmost appreciation and gratitude
for you, and we'll be more intentional about expressing that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Yeah. Yeah, as my grandma would say, charge it to
our heads, yeah, not our hearts exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:08:56):
I want to get to call to action because I
have a call to action and it comes with a video.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
So for those of you who are watching, you can
see my call to action and I'll talk our listening
audience through it. So I was at my home and
I went out back our back entrance, and I walked
past a car. It was around eighty degrees on this day,
and there was a dog inside the car by himself,

(01:09:24):
with the window rolled down just as much I'd say
about five inches, and the dog was howling and barking,
and he appeared I thought he was a German shepherd.
And so I'm looking around. I'm asking people outside. I'm like,
do you guys know whose car this is? Whose dog
is this?

Speaker 6 (01:09:40):
And they're like, we don't know. The dog has been
in there since this morning.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
So I went and got some peanut butter in a
wooden spatula, just in case he wasn't a good boy.

Speaker 6 (01:09:48):
But he was a good boy. I didn't even need it.
I stuck my hand in the window.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
The car was very hot, so if it's eighty degrees outside,
it's probably about a hundred degrees inside.

Speaker 6 (01:09:56):
And he was very sweet. He licked my hand.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
I gave him a little peanut butter, and I broke
in this man's car. I unlocked the door and got
this dog out. I got his leash, which was in
the car. I gave him water, and I just started
knocking on you know, one apartment one O one, apartment
one O two, apartment one.

Speaker 6 (01:10:12):
O three, asking whose dog is this?

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
Who left his dog in the car? Long story short,
I could for a few hours. I couldn't find the
dog's human, so the dog was in my place. I
took the dog to play fetch. As you can see,
he was a naughty little brat and just barked and
lung made me like throw the ball, but just he
was a Dutch Shepherd and I wasn't familiar with his

(01:10:35):
breed a Dutch Shepherd.

Speaker 6 (01:10:36):
And my CTA is, don't be a shitty human being
and leave your.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
Dog in a hot fing car. Even if it feels
breezy to us. They are wearing a fur coat. So
imagine sitting in a car and it's one hundred degrees
and you're in a fur coat, even for ten minutes,
a dog can slide into.

Speaker 6 (01:10:56):
Slip and have a heat stroke. The other thing is some.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
People try to normalize keeping dogs outside. If your cold,
the dog is cold. If you're hot, the dog is hot. Again,
they're in the fur coat. We have domesticated dogs and
it's just not okay. So when I posted this, of
course people started telling me their own stories about rescuing
dogs from outside. These are innocent animals. Please be kind

(01:11:22):
to these innocent animals. Some of it is ignorance. I'm
Jackie Reed and I are like big, big animal advocates,
and we are constantly damning people who say, oh I
do that, I leave my dog here, I left my
dog in the car, and some people just don't know.
So we're trying to inform, not shame. So my cta is,
please please treat these dogs like they are two year

(01:11:43):
old toddlers, because that's what they are.

Speaker 6 (01:11:45):
Essentially.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
They have the mental capacity of a two year old.
They have the hearts of a two year old. They
just want to love and be loved. And you would
never leave a two year old in a hot car,
Nor would you ever walk past a hot car and
see a two year old in there and not do
anything about it. I get on my soapbox a lot.
Thank you for all your comments. By the way, loving
my K nine of PSAs.

Speaker 6 (01:12:06):
But that is my call to action. Just be kinder
to these animals.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
I'm not a cat person, but even cats like just
be kind of animals, like, don't be shitty human beings.
So even the skitzophantic casts please go back and watch
that episode.

Speaker 4 (01:12:20):
I ask, how did you so did the did you
find the I did so.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
The human as you'll see in the video I posted
on I posted on Instagram, but you won't see it
here on the show, he was a worker. He was
doing work for someone in one of the apartments. I
don't think he was all the way together. He was
an older gentleman I think, maybe a little bit of dementia.
But when he saw me, I think he thought I
was gonna like press charges or like be mean to him.

(01:12:46):
So he was a little defensive and he was like,
you know, I can't because I had given the dog
a squeaky toy and like fed the dog, you know,
like made sure the dog was saying. And he said
the first thing he said to me was, you know,
I can't pay you for this, You know what, sir,
time with the dog wasn't enough.

Speaker 7 (01:13:02):
I hear it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
But I didn't want to leave the dog in a
hot car. You have to be careful about leaving the
dog in a hot car. But the dog was very
happy to see him. If the dog didn't want to
go with him, he was not getting the dog back
because I felt there was some abuse or something. But
the dog wagonstail ran up to him and it was
a happy reunion. And I think the man just didn't
really think about because he had been there in the

(01:13:23):
morning when it was like sixty degrees and it got hotter,
the sun changed position, and this poor dog was miserable
in that car.

Speaker 6 (01:13:30):
So I'm happy I did.

Speaker 4 (01:13:31):
The dog was like, thank you, Daddy for the play date.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
That dog didn't even look back to me and say
thank you. That dog was like, deuces, let's go, thanks
for the ball, Deuces.

Speaker 4 (01:13:39):
I'm going back to my humans. I see you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
Yes, well, I will always advocate for animals, especially my puppies,
especially pit bulls. I don't want to hear any pitbull.
They're my favorite dog ever. Anyho, that's my soapbox ri day, Andrew,
thank you for that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:55):
You know, I actually don't have a big win to day.
I really just the stories today really kind of moved me.
Not kind of they move me. It just put back
front and center the ways in which our women continue
to put themselves, their bodies, their mental health, their life

(01:14:16):
security safety on the line to represent for our community,
for their professions. And again, they don't think they're doing
heroic tasks because they're going to work and they're doing
a job, and they understand that obligation and responsibility and
they're trying to do it to the hilp. It isn't
these individual journalists who are trying to make themselves a story.

(01:14:39):
They're trying to cover the stories that matter. It is
the dastard, disrespectful, near diabolical treatment that they receive on
these places of work that then cause their individual stories
to them be put into focus. But that's not what
they're asking for. Beauty is is that when it is

(01:15:02):
brought to them, these women appear completely ready prepared for
the moments that they get thrust into. And I guess
if I had anything, it would just be to lift
them and cover them in prayer. We don't know what
the days ahead hold. And I said this, I guess
last week around love offerings, you know, particularly during this

(01:15:22):
time where so many in our community are losing their
ability to provide that we just be thoughtful if you
are in a place of grace and you're in a
place of maybe overflow, that we're thinking about how it
is that we get resources back to our folks because
we're all we have. So I'm gonna lift that again.

Speaker 6 (01:15:41):
Thank you for that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
And just because you said this, I certainly don't want
to leave out black men. We have stellar examples of
black men in our community, starting with our own Andrew Gillum,
who is an amazing father, often share stories about being
with his children running them back and forth to school,
and even our Jay Andrews amazing white, will admit it's
rare that you'll ask kids like you want.

Speaker 6 (01:16:04):
To go a mommy or daddy?

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
Your kids always like daddy, are yeaddy?

Speaker 6 (01:16:09):
Kids are like, I ain't got no problem with it.

Speaker 7 (01:16:11):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:14):
We love that dynamic, to be honest, because it disrupts
gender norms and so I love it, but.

Speaker 4 (01:16:20):
It also means I don't get to eat. It's always three.

Speaker 6 (01:16:24):
Of them, Like, he can't get a bite in those
kids whatever he got they wanted.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
So even it's like idea like where black fathers like
all of that is born of white supremacy. And disinformation.
We certainly know black fathers are amazing and necessary and
just black men.

Speaker 6 (01:16:41):
We love y'all.

Speaker 3 (01:16:41):
So black folks are under attack collectively and we lock
arms and hopefully we can do that with all communities
of color. We'll be bringing on other voices outside of
the community, Latino voices, API voices, Indigenous voices to dig
into some of those topics in our coming episodes, so
certainly please stay tuned for that. This was episode ninety eight.
I can't believe we're almost to episode one hundred, so

(01:17:04):
please plan the tune into our one hundred show because
it will be a surprise and a celebration. Angela has
to run she is off to a press conference. But
her call to action she gave to us to share
with you, and that is to please tune into our
live show this Saturday. We'll be broadcasting live from the
Congressional Black Pocus Foundation's Annual Legislative Conference from five to seven,

(01:17:27):
and you can check that out on our YouTube. If
you listen to this show after, you can still go
back and check it out on YouTube and catch it.

Speaker 7 (01:17:34):
Then.

Speaker 3 (01:17:34):
Remember we're available on all platforms anywhere you get your
podcasts and YouTube and If you're looking for more shows
like this one, please check out o your shows on
Reason Choice Media.

Speaker 6 (01:17:43):
Of course, my girl Jamel Hill.

Speaker 3 (01:17:45):
With Politics, who also did a really interesting column in
the Atlantic this week.

Speaker 6 (01:17:49):
I encourage you to check it out. She spoke with
Luke Boom Boom boom that Luke about.

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
Censorship, which I think was an interesting conversation to be
of course, remember when Luke in the eighties the rapper
was him self censored. So a really interesting piece in Atlantic.
To check that out, and so'll likely talk about it
on Spolitics. There's of course Off the Cup with Ssie
Cuff and now you know with Noah Deborasso. Give those
a follow, and don't forget to follow us on social

(01:18:18):
media and subscribe to our text or email lists on
nativeland dot com. We are Tiffany Crost, Andrew Gillim and
Angela Rye. There are we think four hundred and four
days and to these alleged midterm elections. And I've even
heard their comments about me being so unhopeful about mid terms,
and people don't like when I say that because they

(01:18:39):
think it a depressed the vote. No, we are going
to fight and do everything we can and show up
and drove for midterms. My doubt is that they will
be free and fair elections. But as long as we
keep the fight going and beat them back at every turn,
perhaps we will overthrow an authoritarian an authoritarian government.

Speaker 6 (01:19:00):
So we'll keep talking about that here.

Speaker 4 (01:19:03):
Welcome home, Welcome.

Speaker 7 (01:19:06):
Morning.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Thank you for joining the Natives attention of with the
info and all of the latest rock gillim and cross
connected to the statements.

Speaker 4 (01:19:13):
That you leave on our socials.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Thank you sincerely for the patients reason for your choice
is cleared.

Speaker 9 (01:19:19):
So grateful it took the execute roads for serve.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
Defend and protect the truth even in paste. And welcome
home to all of the natives wait.

Speaker 9 (01:19:27):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:19:39):
Native lampod is a production of iHeart Radio and partnership
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Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Tiffany Cross

Andrew Gillum

Angela Rye

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Why Free Speech Costs More When You’re Black