Home Taken Over by a Squatter w/ Heidi Russell

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(00:25):
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Heart Media, or their employees. I'd rather risk being arrested

(00:47):
and fighting or in court rather than fighting or in
the apartment because once she gets back in now that
I've locked around, god knows what that escalation is going
to now go to. Imagine you had someone stay in
your apartment. Your plan was that they'd stay for just
a month. You were accustomed to renting out a room
for some extra income, so this wasn't unusual. Now imagine

(01:08):
that this person you brought in for one month hijacks
your apartment. They refuse to leave. They even common deer
household cleaners as weapons block you from entering rooms in
your long time home, and then you learn that the
system is more willing to support this squatter and leave

(01:29):
you without a home, and then imagine that this has
been going on for three years. The story of Heidi
Russell is a New York story for sure, but it
is also a story of enabling gone bad. It's about
what happens when grifters take advantage of rules that are
designed to protect vulnerable citizens and work the system, and

(01:53):
about systems that simply do not understand the dynamics of
narcissistic personalities and the instruction that can be wrought by them.
This is the story of what happens when people keep
making excuses for toxic people and toxic behavior. Welcome Heidi.

(02:13):
I I really have to say that we have all
different kinds of people on this podcast, but for me,
this is a bit of a star sighting because I
read your story with such absolute I was it was
gripped by it when I read it, and people are
going to hear it from you. But I really, I mean,
like again, a little bit star struck right now that
I get to meet the person at the center of

(02:33):
this story, and it goes beyond that though, because in
your story I thought These are the sorts of stories
that people need to hear about when we're thinking about
navigating narcissism. So thank you so much for joining us today. Absolutely,
it's my pleasure, Dr Romany, and can't wait to help
get the message out and hopefully help others. Well you will,
that you will. So I'd love to start from the

(02:55):
very top of your story if you could tell us
how you and val came to buy your home. Absolutely,
Valentina has nurtured this home base for a long time.
Was on a wait list for many years to try
to get into this middle income housing complex, which was

(03:16):
created by Jane Jacobs and the seventies to provide an
opportunity for middle income folks to have a affordable housing
in the city. And she's an immigrant from the Soviet Union,
came with an infant son, didn't know any English. She
knows seven languages, so she picked it up fast and
found her way in America here and along that route,

(03:39):
she came across this housing complex and thought, you know,
this is an amazing neighborhood. Back then, so when I
met her, she was a renter, still hadn't been able
to buy. So those renters at the time in two
thousand six, had the opportunity to buy an insider opportunity
and still keep it affordable for those that were living there.

(04:02):
And so when I came and met her and she said, hey,
you know, why don't you come live with me? And
uh I was living on the Bowery at the time,
was quite noisy and the Chinatown areas said yeah, and
I'm an artist. I came here to pursue my photography
and my art interests. So I said, all right, I'll
come over and live in the village with you. And
that was the start of their story, coming together and

(04:24):
just supporting each other and realizing, you know, we can
help each other with our dreams. And uh I was
able to find a lender to be able to help
her dream come true as I had the job. She
has a disability, so not able to work. So it's
a real New York story. I mean, every New York

(04:45):
story involves an apartment, right, So that that was really
a New York story, and honestly it remains a New
York story as we switch into how did the grifter
come into your life? How did that even happen? So
we had to rent the second bedroom that we have
and actually had had always done that prior to me.
That was her way of making ends meet. And when

(05:06):
Airbnb was in its height, we thought, let's try a
little Airbnb, and we did that, and that's where this
grifter found us. And you'll hear later in the story
that I later found out that this was her m
o to scope out places through Craigslist or Airbnb, that

(05:27):
she could manipulate one form of another to get free housing.
And she only came in once or twice in a
night or two with her daughter. She seemed fine, decent,
caring mother, just on maybe a little bit of hard times.
And the coop said that we could no longer do Airbnb.

(05:50):
That had to be long term renters, which is thirty
days or more. And we had found a new student
to take over in September of two nineteen, and we
have three months free, and so I had asked a
couple of people that we had connected with and she
was one of them, and she obviously jumped on the

(06:10):
chance and was a little more forward. So Val had
already gone overseas to take care of her deceased mother's affairs,
and we were communicating, but I kind of had to
make the decision, and that was the start of the
of the crazy story. In a weird way, it sounds

(06:30):
like this person was sort of chasing the joint, maybe
getting to know your psychology, finding out how malleable you were,
figuring out if the space worked for her. And as
you said, Heidi, red flags are a funny thing. We
can all see them in our rear view mirror, but
it's really hard to see them in real time, and
you'd feel that you have to be so suspicious. But

(06:51):
there were some things about it that like, Okay, there's
a lot of chaos here. But then you thought, okay,
we've got our new person. They're coming in September. So
even if you saw red flags, you'd be like, Okay,
it doesn't matter anymore because we have a new plan
we're going forward with exactly exactly, and what do you're
try and make ends meet and work at paycheck to paycheck.
Three months of no roommate income is a big deal,

(07:13):
so with having avowal overseas taking care of things over there,
we needed that extra extra income. Through a trialhood tribulations
that began through the summer, I finally found out who
she really was in September. It was obvious her m
O that she used with previous victims, and one of
them being a previous victim who she used relationship energy

(07:37):
to get that free housing was a black away, so
it was obvious that probably was part of the choosing
of our home that it was near this other victim
who she could also intimidate and try to manipulate because
there was a criminal case against her from that victim.

(07:58):
One of the most difficult cuot things about narcissistic and
manipulative people is that they groom their victims, and grooming
is a gradual process. If we are preoccupied, as many
of us are, just what the stuff of life, and
Heidi certainly was. Val was overseas managing a family issue.

(08:18):
They had the stress of living paycheck to paycheck, and
most importantly, we don't typically have the benefit of hearing
the stories of those who came before us in dealing
with a narcissistic person that comes into our lives. Heck,
at least when you purchase a used car, there is

(08:38):
a report of past accidents and repairs. Well, people don't
have such reports that go along with them, and in
the absence of that data and combine with the grooming process.
Most of us don't recognize that grifters are working a
game from the moment they meet us. Wow. Wow, okay, okay,

(09:01):
So that that's an interesting part of the story. And
you didn't obviously know any of this at the time
that this person came to be in your apartment. Correct,
she used her maiden name. Even just googling her, it
wouldn't have found out anything. It was just by luck
really that I found out later what I finally took
the plunge. I kept thinking, okay, red flag, she wouldn't

(09:22):
leave the end of June, as I asked her. We
just kept hoping, maybe she'll come around, till she will
leave at the end of August. What was the hope
based on for you? Why? Why did you think that
you kept hoping she would leave? She came into your
apartment when you said June, yeah, the beginning of June,
June fourth. Interestingly, we've had some experience was even as

(09:43):
a tenant, having to evict somebody who stopped paying us
or was threatening us, and so we knew what needed
to take place, and we knew under thirty days. Once
somebody stays thirty days, you have to go through the
legal process, which can take upwards of a year more
in tens of thousands of dollars. So I had her
come in on June fourth instead of June first. I

(10:06):
was even pre planning, just in case. So you were
pre planning. You were thinking that if this person tries
to sort of run a hustle on me, now I'm
a few days in. That gives time for a July
one or whatever, June thirties wherever she finds something new.
But her grift, her manipulation, was many steps ahead of that.
So it sounds like she stayed a couple of nights

(10:27):
with you in the past. Yes, just a night here
and a night there when it was an airbnb. Yes,
just so I'm clear. So then she comes back in
early June. You have a new person coming in in September.
But at this point, just so I'm clear, Heidi, the
COOPO as saying, there can be no longer short term rentals.

(10:47):
So if this person was going to come in at
this point, the grifter person is coming in, they would
have to stay at least thirty days? Am I right
about that? Correct? Correct? And as always said, we'll give
you this three months up until Antibogoshy. She's like, oh,
that's great. It gives me time to find a place
for because her daughter was also going to school in

(11:08):
the village right nearby. So when she came and stayed
with you those the night here in the night there before,
you do know she had a daughter, right, so when
she came there, as in June, she came with a daughter.
I'm always hopeful the goodness of people. And so even
though when you get red flags as such, they're saying, okay, well,
here's a single mother and seems very charming, well spoken,

(11:32):
educated for her seemed to be educated, down on our luck,
trying to find a safe home for her child. You're hopeful.
And then even when you see these signs of oh no,
I can't leave, I need this apartment for an address
for the custody battle. You're gonna make me lose my child.
That was the first aggression that I saw from her,

(11:53):
and the realizing that the tentacles were locked in and
I had a real problem on my hand. But even
after that and talking lawyer had given me the advice
where you have an agreement, you either give him some
money or something and say take this and leave. And
at that point I was out of money and I
couldn't give her any money. So how about I'll give
you the rent free for the rest of the summer

(12:15):
if you agree to leave at the end of August
like we had originally planned. And she's like, oh yeah, yeah.
We talked like for an hour, and it was like,
I probably gave too much information about myself at the
situation with about on her her mother who had been
murdered actually, and Kiev and our neighbors who are nasty
and this or that. They use that information right later,
but she seemed like, oh, yeah, okay, that sounds good. Okay,

(12:36):
gives me time to find another place before my daughter's
school starts. And then a few days later, I said
I'm going to write something up so we could sign
it for both of us, and then she just wouldn't answer,
and oh no, I'm gonna have my daughter's lawyer look
at look it over and again. Right then I knew
that she was not going to sign it and she
probably wouldn't leave, and being the good person, I am

(12:57):
the hopeful person and also acrastinator, I thought, Okay, let's
just hope fingers crossed. Maybe she will, and obviously when
she didn't leave August thirty one, I had to set
the actions and motions for trying to actually a victor.
Pro say, initially, you know some of the details that
stick out or sort of details about you where even
the person you're living with now and other people said,

(13:20):
you're just too good, You're so nice. And it's coming
up again and again on navigating narcissism. We're talking to
folks and they're like, I came from a happy family,
Like I was taught that people are good and nice.
And with each person I talk with, and I think
with each episode people listen to, we're starting to realize
that the people who are greatest risk, and this is

(13:41):
supported by the research are the people who actually believe
in the good of other people, which is a sad
kind of a statement that there's a suspiciousness that's almost
needed in this world right now. But you actually came
at this from you saw a situation holistically. It's a
mom with a daughter who's fallen on hard luck. She

(14:02):
knows the neighborhoods, or child in a school. You crafted
a narrative from a place of empathy and compassion, whereas
the other player in the story was really viewing this
as a manipulation and exploitation, a searching out of weakness
and a way to advantage this situation. You were both

(14:22):
playing different games. You were playing checkers and she was
playing chess and cheating. Yes, absolutely, when goodness collides with manipulation,
someone is going to get hurt. Heidi considers herself as
a person who sees goodness in people, and here she
sees a young child, narcissism and grifters raise a time

(14:44):
warn dilemma of how much trust is too much? And
another process we observe here is how once the griff
d tenant was seeing that her scam for free rent
was working, the conversation then mode, which created another danger,
which is sharing too much information with the manipulative toxic person.

(15:10):
Heidi opened up to her, perhaps relieved that there was
a path forward. What seems like sharing an openness to
healthy people. Actually it's just data collateral and intel that
a toxic person can manipulate to sustain their abuse. Throughout
this whole process, which is now hit as three year mark,

(15:34):
people say, oh your resilience and your grace and oh
my god, I would have would have killed this person
i'd be in jail now or this or that. You know,
one could look at goodness and empathy as a weakness,
but I also feel that's a strength and because of
that strength coupled with my resiliency and strength, and I'm

(15:55):
a smart person, like I could see the signs. It's
just putting up together right. It's a great Kay study.
But you said here people who would call goodness and
empathy a weakness in the long game HEIGHTI goodness and
empathy are the best things we can have. It's how
do you we hold onto our goodness and our empathy
and yet hold back and view things through more I

(16:21):
don't know, like a a lens where awfulness is a possibility.
There's actually an Ethiopian proverb that goes evil enters like
a needle and spreads like an oak tree. And the
needle was when this when this woman's grifter entered your
apartment for one or two nights. The oak tree what was?

(16:41):
What is what unfolded over the next three years. It
comes in very subtly. And I think that at the end,
the real loss would be if somebody went through what
you went through and lost the goodness and empathy because
then one of the best parts of yourself would be gone.
The key is to come out the other side of
these stories, maybe a little more cynical, but without losing
the goodness and empathy. It's a tough it's a really

(17:03):
tough balancing act. So have you ever met anyone like this?
How had you before in your life ever met anyone
like the grifter? No? No, you've heard stories. And what's
also interesting about this journey is the other discoveries and
the peripheral the systems, and the realization of how all

(17:26):
the systems have broken down and are not serving good
abiding citizens. Yes I agree, as opposed to the criminals,
and so making those realizations have it's sort of like
a double whammy. You're experiencing the trauma of being victimized
by a manipulative grifter at the same time trying to

(17:49):
find the resources to help you through it, and they're
not there. And this was even before the pandemic, which
then during the pandemic it was amplified. And I just
like to mention and myself and Valentina, maybe even Appy,
our dog, and all the previous victims who I came
to know. Number One thought in all of our minds

(18:10):
was the ultimate victim is the child and how that
was really just I could feel that energy and the
tears welling up. It's just how could our society fail
this child like this, to allow a grifter to be
able to form and do their bidding time after time

(18:32):
after time and not be held accountable and creating victims
along the way, and with the ultimate victim being at
the child. Again, we've had other people talk about that
in this podcast, and the fact of the matter is
that our court systems completely have no interest in children's rights.
It's parents rights, and when the parent is a grifter,

(18:53):
that parents will completely co opt that system for their needs.
And those systems are simply not designed to identify the
needs of the children, which is really to me criminal
because failing that child is going to have lifelong implications,
and the systems are designed to be gamed. That's the problem.

(19:15):
So when you have a grifter coming into one of
those systems, it literally becomes something for them to work through.
And the systems are almost naive. They're naive, and they're
not built to withstand people with these kinds of personalities.
They really are not. So in your story, Heidi, so
now we're up to it's August thirty one and she
hasn't left, so we could already say that things start

(19:37):
going wrong. But in your story, when did things start
to go wrong? When did it become wasn't just a
red flag, it was now like red alarms and red fireworks.
It started really from the first week. She couldn't pay
me after about a week, and then she finally said, okay,
I'm going to all the money from a friend of Florida,
and then it got sent to me, and then I

(19:57):
had to give money back from it. I had to
make sure that check cleared, like this is sounding a
little scammy. And then slowly through the summer, taking over
the living room when I was at work so I
would come home. You kept us from using the living
room in June, so now we get to use the
living room always. So it just gradually increased in terms
of the intimidation. And I call it stalking in one's

(20:18):
own home. It's like every time we came home, it's
like they're in the bathroom. If I go into the kitchen,
there in the kitchen, they hugged the living room so
we can use the living room. So it built and
then on August three, one, she and her daughter were out.
We checked. We were serving her pro se with a friend,
and we did the first serving knocking on her door.

(20:38):
Didn't answer a few hours later, that's the process. We
did it again. I'd asked a lawyer at the time,
is it okay to go into the bedroom? Because I
had heard conflicting things. Is it okay if I go
in the bedroom to see if she's actually left? Because
I had no idea. Yeah, it's your apartment, it's your thing.
You can go in and which you're not really supposed
to do. But I had everything filmed at but at
this point I was recording everything or and or filming

(21:00):
everything at that point to keep myself protected. I went
in and I had been trying to get things out
of my closet in there that were memorabilia as such
as she wouldn't let me in, so I said, okay,
doesn't let that gone. I'm going to take out my
memorabilia items so that she doesn't do something with them.
And I left to know and I said I had
to go in, and she had pushed the button on

(21:23):
the inside so I couldn't get in, So I had
to use a pin and that's where our fire escape was.
So I put a note on the door said if
you're gone, you can't leave the door locked because it's
a fire escape. I removed my items that I said
up been needing to get out. She came home when
I was in the bathroom. I heard her come home,
and I heard her say, oh, you came into our
you came into our bedroom, and that's illegal. And where's

(21:45):
the five bills that were the child's sitting on the table.
And so right then that was like the real like fire. Okay,
Now she's accusing me of things that I didn't do.
And that's part of the game, the manipulation of being
afraid of even though you're not doing anything wrong. And
I thought everything recorded and I have all the backup

(22:05):
witnesses and everything, just that fear of being accused of
something that you didn't do. And she used that for
the whole summer. When are you giving this money back?
Give it back? Where I'm going to the police. She
said that so many times. Our session will continue after
this break. Toxic relationships are sort of a kind of

(22:38):
creeping that slowly encroaches your life. In Heidi's case, it
was more obvious as the grifter slowly crept and took
over the living room. Another pattern that we witness here,
which is a classical part of any narcissistic relationship, is

(22:58):
that need to walk on eggshells to document everything, to
even video everything, and record everything, because it's a matter
of time before you were gaslighted and accused of things
that you didn't do. While this particular case is quite extreme,
in many narcissistic relationships, people feel that over time they

(23:21):
need to be so careful before they say or do
anything because it feels like the toxic person is always
trying to set a trap. And one of the things
I noticed is that each of them separately were very demure,
quiet stat in the quarter did their thing, but when

(23:41):
they were there in the apartment together, it was just
like fire. The grifter as a mother was I think,
just trying to show the kid that hey, I got
the power and take care of you. And most of
the instances where there was aggression they were both in
the apartment. In other words, the mother was being more
aggressive when the child was present, almost as though she

(24:03):
was performing for the child. And obviously, Heidi, you must
have suspected this too, that she knew that if she
did that while the child was present, it would really
take away any possibility you had to push back because
she had already determined that you were someone who was
not going to become volatile in the presence of a child.

(24:25):
So she was using her child as a human shield exactly.
I I always said that she used her as a
shield and as a as a tool. As a tool, yeah, no, absolutely,
which again, people with these kinds of antagonistic personality styles,
and I use the term antagonistic because it takes in
a lot of territory, right, So it takes in not
just patterns that show a lack of empathy and an entitlement,

(24:47):
a belief that rules don't apply to them. Again, that
back to that entitlement, the arrogance, the grandiosity, the manipulation,
the exploitation, the moderate paranoia. It's like it's such a big,
wide swath that a one word other than antagonism captures
that whole kind of spectrum. And so that is what
you were very much dealing with. I also here, though,

(25:10):
you were being subjected to your own kind of grooming process,
because what this grifter roommate person was figuring out was
that you were not going to lash out in a
way that was going to be, if you will, terrifying,
because the fact of the matter is, and I think
you said friends and other people have said this to you,
hiding his Other people in the situation may very well

(25:32):
have become violent. Yes, I mean I think that actually
would not have been a non normative reaction. And while
that person who would behave violently towards her may very
well have faced some kind of criminal penalty, that would
have also ended up the grifter in the street because
they would have been the lease holder of the apartment.

(25:52):
The landlord may have ended the lease, and who knows
what would have happened. She determined very clearly that she
could keep pushing that envelope, and that's what people who
are antagonistic do. They keep testing the limits. And when
she recognized you weren't gonna snap, I could see how
she just kept pushing that and pushing that, And then

(26:15):
I think, too, this is and I think it's gonna
we tell the story more. Your story, like many of
these stories, was just a story of systemic failures that
it's as though none of these systems, the systems that
issue restraining orders, law enforcement courts, whether it relates to
tendency or family courts or any of that, actually understand antagonism,

(26:37):
and because of that, they make these really kind of
anemic weak recommendations or lack of action, And then everyone's
often scratching their heads saying, well, how did it escalate?
It escalated because the people who could have actually done
something didn't have teeth, the policies didn't have teeth, or
they chase not to act on it. And I think

(26:57):
your story replicates and duplicates all the time, is that
these systems don't want to take these antagonistic personalities seriously. Yes,
for instance, a CS it got to a point where
I knew, from being in the position of a landlord,
I had to be very careful that any actions could
be construed, especially in New York City, as landlord intimidation.

(27:20):
So that's another thing that people have a hard time
understanding in New York. Oh, I would have done know
or I would have taken the toilet at her I
would have taken. You can't do that. You'll be arrested
as a landlord intimidation. So there's that as well. And
because of the pro Tennessee laws, and I'm all for
them because we were protected as tenants prior to that.

(27:42):
There's got to be nuances, So we were picking up
on these systems that just again it's the opposite of
the squeaky wheel. In fact, the squeaky wheel in these
situations is what gets ignored whenever we try to come
home and set for the TV. Came home around ten
and I said, well, you know, I'd really like to
watch my Stephen Colbert was all, at least I can
watch something before I go to bed. She's like, okay,
lawyers told my daughter she's got to watch Cramer Versus

(28:03):
Cramer for the custody court. I'm like, okay, all right,
she's how much longer is the movie? About an hour?
So an hour I went by and she was still
in there, and I'm making my food and I said
I'd like to watch my show and she just went off,
Oh my god, you kept us from using this for
so long, and now the only reason you offered for

(28:24):
us to stay here for freeze because you were afraid
we were going to sue you for how you treated
us in June. So that whole taking over the apartment started,
you know, fairly early on, and it just progressed, and
I made the mistake of saying, the dog and I
are allergic two cents and we can't have scented candles
or incense, and so what does she bring and do

(28:46):
every day? And sense and candles eventually escalated to especially
when the pandemic hit. Before that, she was leaving dirty
paper towels underneath the sink and in the bathroom, and
dirties dishes in this saying. And I mentioned this because
once I have not been staying there, when I go in,
it's like everything is pristine. And when I would leave,

(29:07):
she would spray the light switch or the door handles
knobs with chemical and even my door, and so there
will be this green residue dripping. I would always say,
stop spraying these things. I had to repair light switches
and such. And then when the pandemic hit escalated because
at this point I was relegated to my bedroom with
a thirty pound dog with all of my things that

(29:27):
I had to take out of the living room that
were valuable, my printer, computer, the TV and all of
that so she couldn't use it. And at that point
I was laid off, and so I was trying to
look for a job, so I would leave at a
certain point and then I would be out all evening
with my dog, pushing her around in the carriage and
going to people's houses to have a shower, to have dinner,

(29:48):
stay in the launder room until eleven eleven thirty, so
that when we went up they were hopefully at least
potentially in bed, which half the time they weren't. But
once the pandemic it, that escalated to spraying at me
with these chemicals. So as I would walk in and
out of my bedroom and and would rush to the

(30:10):
exit apartment door, and she would just start spraying where
I was walking, and when I came in the door,
she would start. She would jump off the couch or whatever,
grabbed the spray bottle which was right next to the door,
and just start spraying behind me. How did that not
qualify as assault? Thank you for asking. How I went
to the police six times and final complaints, and each

(30:30):
time they were like, can't prove it, Maybe she was
just cleaning. We know you're trying to a victor. Goodness
that that minimization by those who do have some form
of authority in these situations, for example, most notably in
this case it was, law enforcement really would depend on
it would vary from situation to situation. I mean, this

(30:50):
is a problem since time immemorial, right, Domestic abuse survivors
have endured this for for since the beginning of there
was these systems in play where well, he's just yelling
at you, that's just how it is, or they'll take
a personnel, they'll let them walk it off for something
like that. So it's a complete minimization. I mean, obviously
you knew better. I've read the critiques that people have had,

(31:11):
like why did you let her in and why did
you kick her out? And not fully understanding tenant laws
and all this other stuff. But you, at a very
early stage started doing things like making videos of what
you're doing. It's like you were onto it, right, or
you wouldn't be doing those things. So that was your
acknowledgement of a red flag that you couldn't even act on.

(31:32):
And so I think that that piece of oh, Heidi
didn't see it, Heidi saw it. Your hands were literally tied.
You know, this is like one of those nightmares where
you're trying to scream and the voice isn't coming out
of you because you're thinking there's nothing I can do
without actually making my situation worse, for example, losing my apartments,

(31:53):
all those kinds of things. So your hands were completely tied.
And at some level it sounded like this grift. A
person knew this because she had run similar scams, and
she it's almost as though she understood the limits of
this and was really kind of co opting the system
to her advantage. So when you were in the middle

(32:14):
of all this, Heidi, how did you say this person
is doing this? Because how did you explain this? Once
I found out who she truly was. Before that, as
I mentioned earlier, there's this hope that maybe she's just
a single mother is just trying to make things, having
some emotional ups and downs. But once I found out
there was previous victims criminal activity, knowing that she had

(32:37):
pattern and a string of other victims, we almost still
feel sorry for the person because there's probably a reason
she became that, and again another system of our society's
failures of she probably didn't get the help she needed
at a young age. Did you ever think of the
word narcissistic? Did that did come up early on? Once

(32:59):
I met the previous victims, she had a relationship with
and the father, the ex husband. That word came up
for sure or by them. It's like the world is
hers and this is the truth, and this is the
way it is, and this is why it's going to be.
So that definitely came up. It's just I can just

(33:21):
give it a big sigh right now, because there's so
many other examples. The increase of intimidation, which started becoming
more physical as I started to mention. And then when
the pandemic hit, I overheard them talking in the hallway
when I'm locked in my bedroom, the child saying, oh,

(33:41):
thank God for the pandemic, because they had signed a
judgment to leave the end of March one and the
moratorium hit I think March sevent and the child being
away for like almost two months of one summer. I
found out that if the other parents not notified after
two months, the other part has legal rights. And then

(34:03):
the child came back right before the end of two months,
just you mentioned earlier, knowing just exactly where what she
could do and under the wire sort of speak. And
the judges in the custody court they said, we know
she's lying. She's saying she lives in Brooklyn, but we're
pretty sure she's lying. She's not living there, and this
is before they knew where she was. But yet the

(34:25):
judge couldn't do anything. The A C. S And December says,
we want to do a psyche val on both of them,
but we can't get it over the finish line to
get permission to do that. So it's like she knows
exactly what she needs to do, right, And this is
something we see quite frequently with antagonistic personalities. It's really
quite cunning in that they know exactly the line to

(34:46):
fly under to keep something from becoming criminal. I mean,
it is something I've seen repeated in story after story,
maybe not quite as extraordinary as this one, but that
they'll come just short of it, and any lawyer will
not that they're just not going to be able to
get this anywhere in front of They're not eve gonna
be able to get a warrant, They're not get nothing,
and so they can't. They just can't indict, and as

(35:09):
a result, the people on the other side of that
are often left wrecked with virtually no recourse. Now, one
thing that you had said was that there was a
point in your story where you presented in front of
a judge. Can you tell us how it came to
that point where you were in front of a judge,
What led to that and what happened when you were
in front of the judge. Well, there was the first
time and before the pandemic, where our lawyers got her

(35:33):
into the housing corps and I wasn't there. I elected
to stay in the hallway. But mother is said that
she said, well, I need a lawyer, and this was
pre pandemic. When you weren't guaranteed a lawyer, you had
to go and show your financials. So we came back
a second time in January and she signed the the
stipulation to leave. We negotiated March thirty one, and the

(35:53):
previous victim and I were just like flabbergasted because we
thought for sure she was going to try to keep
delaying it. I'm sure she would have elated it on
that March on somehow before the pandemic, they had left
her and the child anti dog, and it was the
week after the police finally came to the apartment to
tell her to stop spraying me. Finally I got somebody
from the presinct just says, uh, they heard the recording

(36:16):
and they said, okay, we'll come talk to her. It's like,
oh my god. And also that same week, because she
kept saying, oh, I want the mail keys. You know,
you're stealing my mail, all these types of things, and
I was told by another neighbor who heard that the
co op basically said, no, we know you're not supposed
to be living there. So I thought, Okay, now they're gone,
so maybe those two things maybe okay, getting ready to

(36:38):
find a new place for the school and all that.
So they were gone for two and a half weeks,
and I'm in like heaven, staying up late, sleeping on
the couch and watch the TV, and all the while
expecting she could come back in any moment. And I
finally said, you know what, I'm going to change the lock,
knowing that it's illegal to do a lockout, but I

(36:59):
put a note on the or that said due to
safety and security reasons, I had to change a lock,
which is true because I had no idea. She left
and gave the keys to some vagrant or criminal druggie
and said, hey, go hang out in this apartment. She's
gonna a welk over and put my lawyer's phone number
and then I'm out one night late in July after
this two and a half weeks, and I didn't go

(37:20):
into the bedroom. I didn't check, but it looked like
things that were left in the living room where things
like school books and things that I've known in the
past with her other victims, she would just leave. And
so I told my lawyer, if she calls, you'd feel
her out to see what's going on. Maybe we can
get her to agree to leave or something if she's
playing coming back. So my lawyer calls and says, oh, no,

(37:40):
when when she wants to know, when you give me
and I'm like, no, no, no, say we thought she
had left, Okay, let me call him back. He calls
her back, and then he calls me and says, oh,
when I said, we thought maybe you had left. Oh no, no, no,
we were just on vacation. This is our home. We're
never planning on leaving. And I remember being on the
street and on the phone with my lawyers with my
dog in a carriage, and I just broke down. I

(38:03):
said no, no, no, no, no, no, nope, nope, nope.
I'd rather risk being arrested and fighting her in court
rather than fighting her in the apartment because once she
gets back in now that I've locked around, god knows
what that escalation is going to now go to. And
all those months I've been trying to get back into
court to execute our pre pandemic warrant. She got a

(38:27):
court case in two days. Wow, we will be right
back with this conversation. She almost got me arrested. Luckily,
we got in front of a judge and he said,
try to see if you can work it out so
we could save this taxpayer some money. I'm like, yeah,

(38:48):
and my lawyer goes. One of my lawyers I have
an also an activist lawyer has been helping. He's a
pro tenant lawyer who sees the injustice in this. I've
been very lucky. So my lawyer of record he's like, well, know,
you might have to pay her four or five thousand dollars.
And I was like, well, first of all, I don't
have four or five thousand dollars and nobody I can
borrow from anymore, because I've maxed out all my borrowing

(39:09):
from family of friends, and and she's not going to ask.
She's not going to go away for that. She's going
to ask for at least twenty dollars because that's what
the previous relationship victim basically gave her twenty to go
away with the idea of giving that for a place
to stay for the child and all of that, and
she never used. She she scammed that landlord on Bank
Street as well. Sojo says, it's okay, we're gonna have

(39:31):
we're gonna have lunch and we'll come back see if
you can come to agreement. And at the end of
the lunch, at a half hour or whatever, I get
this text from my lawyer. This the WTF explanation point
question or explanation. But she's like, she asked for dollars,
and I said, so we get back. And at that

(39:54):
point the judge was seeming like sort of in our favor,
like leaning towards us, like, Okay, I see there's some
allegations of harassment. Okay, normally with a lockout, what's strictly
a lockout. But I'll have a part beat and we'll
hear your case about feeling unsafe, im in a a danger
type of thing. And so we said no, no, we
couln't agree with it. She asked for twenty five dollars,

(40:14):
and the judge goes, well, that's a bit excessive. So
again we're thinking, okay, maybe the judge sees what's going
on and we can't bring anything. So the court can't
see anything about the judgment signing, anything about her criminal past,
your open felonies, you know, all these types of things.
Only about the lockouts, only about the lockout. This this

(40:35):
is a person who's behaving badly all the time. Yet
the judge ended up branding you as the one with
the problem. How did the grifter act in court? Very
prim and proper demure? You know, again, listen, it's such
a big story. First of all, Heidi, how has this
affected you? Not? I mean it's very clear the practical issues,

(40:56):
but psychologically, how has this affected you? Well? I must
say that I feel very fortunate, blessed to have a
strong constitution of sort that if I feel a little
bit depressed or whatnot, or a little angry or whatever,
I get through it within a day and the next
day I'm right back at Okay, what am I going
to do? Very fortunate for that. And it's actually been

(41:18):
helpful that vow has been away. I don't have to
worry about her because she's the home body, right so
I could be out at work, or I could be
out pushing on my art the band's pushing the dog around.
But Valentine is the home body and she always was,
so by her being abroad, it was actually released the
extra stress on me. I would have worried about her.
She probably would have been jailed because she would have

(41:38):
manipulated so that it looked like val attacked her or
the daughter. So we both have been surviving in our
own ways. But I still am a hopeful person. I
still believe in humanity, I still believe in the goodness
of people, but I am now more aware and awake
to the injustices. I knew that injustices were out there,

(41:59):
but experience it in many different facets because there were
some other situations with our previous landlord trying to evict
us and just to see how wow, these systems really
don't truly work for law abiding citizens, and that's been disheartening. However,
it's stirred me onto I want to make change, and

(42:20):
I want to raise awareness number one that this hopefully
grifter will not dictimize anybody else in the future, which
I know she will unfortunately, but at least in the
village or not that I'm trying to disparage her name
or anything, but you know, this is what's going on.
And a lot of the parents when they first saw
the article, they were like, this can't be the same person. No,

(42:41):
this can't be the person. Other people are like, oh
you know what I saw that sign. Oh, now it
makes sense and now her support system has diminished, which
is not necessarily good for the child unfortunately. But I
also am hoping that through some try to get a
roommate law instituted, legislating it to help protect Lacy's and

(43:02):
homeowners who have to rent a room to make ends
meet have some rights. So that's what's driving me to
get through this and protect our home. Yeah, we might
have to sell it after this because of our lender,
but the idea is this is our home. This is
our home to make that decision. We shouldn't be forced out.

(43:23):
And so just fighting for that and hopefully affecting change somehow.
But my mother, she's like, come on, what's going on
here and how can this be? You know, this is uncomfortable.
I'm like, oh no, mom, I know we'll get there.
It's just and people have said again, it's like you've
seen the comments. How can this be? Reading the comments
was what made me go back and read the story

(43:44):
a second time, thinking did I miss something? But here
again we have someone who survived narcissistic abuse and they're
questioning the person. I mean, listen, I've heard it all
in your case, Heidi, people saying well, you shouldn't have
moved into a place where you couldn't swing the monthly payments.
Oh yeah, that's all your problem. Like you're basically being
held up as some sort of symbol of fiscal irresponsibility

(44:07):
or something, and that you should have done a better
job vetting this person. So really, the onus was being
viewed on you rather than a person who came in
sort of case to joint systematically Grooms, You knew all
the loopholes in New York tendency laws, used the child

(44:27):
as a way to sort of almost act as a
human shield and create sort of work around with law
enforcement who kept enabling her. But you, and to some
degree Valentino reviewed as the foolish bad people. How does
that feel? Because I know I'm not you, and I
was enraged when I read that. So what did that
feel like for you? To be honest with you. I

(44:47):
haven't read the comments for that reason, so that was
very smart. I don't recommend it. No. I had a
few people say, oh, look at this name sebody screenshot.
I was like, I'm not gonna But then you know
a lot of people were like, you know, I think
the troller. They're going to find the negative in every story.
But the people who really understand it, they say, how
could this be? But they still realize this could happen

(45:08):
to me once they really cure it and understand it.
And this neighbor put together this go fund meat which
was still up and it still helps us. We get
little things here and there, we give updates. But the
comments on there have been incredible, those comments I have read,
and those people who have who have helped us financially,

(45:28):
they were like, oh my god, how can this be?
How can this poor child, Oh my god, how can
this woman use her own child? How can the systems
have failed? People who have responded all over the nation
and even Europe, other countries, England, Germany and saying this
is not your fault, this is a narcissist, this is
a sociopath, this is blah blah blah every everything else

(45:49):
and feeling for us and saying hang in there, we're
cheering you on. Fight the system. And one one comment
in particular, this woman can riff was New York or California,
but a metropolitan area said this is not your fault, says,
I did everything by the book what everybody's telling you
you should have done. I vetted the person, I got

(46:11):
a background check, I checked the employer reference, I found
the bank statements, secured a security deposit three months ahead
this or that, and I still was looped. So it
doesn't matter if you yeah, no, it doesn't matter. Yeah.
And so those comments have sustained my view of goodness

(46:32):
of people in society and humanity that if we stick together,
we can get through this. Well, what's so interesting about
your situation is that I think any of us can see,
especially during the pandemic and the economic times we're in,
I think I can empathize with the tenant laws. I
also empathize with the small landlords. But here's the problem
in a case like yours, In the cases any case
similar to yours, race is this, which is, none of

(46:53):
these laws are made to be able to work around
narcissistic or psychopathic antagonistic people, right, So when it comes
down to it, it's almost like a fishing net. The
fishing net is designed to catch a certain kind of fish,
but then sometimes the other species sort of sneaks in there.
So yeah, sure that the tendency laws largely protect the

(47:15):
people they're supposed to protect. But then you've got somebody
who learns how to game the system. And it's one
thing to game the system, it's quite another to completely
overtake another person's life. And because the people who make
the laws, the people who enforce the laws do not
understand antagonistic personality style of narcissism, any of it, there's

(47:38):
absolutely no way to make any kind of allowances for that.
So then I asked this, Heidi, what's your living situation
right now? Where are things at for you? A little
over a year ago, I had a friend who I
am now staying with, who is older and was having
a surgery and middle of pandemic where nobody wanted anybody
in their homes, said can you help me out for
a couple of days? And I'm helping her, she's helping me. Fortunately,

(48:01):
Valentina has her mother's place that she's been trying to
took care of her affairs. As I mentioned, her mother
was murdered and keep in her apartment, and so she
wanted on her mother's memory by trying to keep the apartment,
but having immigrated from the Soviet Union and not having
all of her documents, and so why don't you stay there?
Because the Grift is going to be out with the

(48:22):
warrant before the pandemic rather than send you back to finish.
And then she got stuck there, so she's being she
has at least a place to stay there, but of
course the war has created and everybody's why is she
still stay there? That's crazy? Well, where she going to
be if she comes back? I'm stable to stay at
this place. My friend who's sleeping on the couch because

(48:45):
she can't walk up her loft bed here which I'm
sitting right next to. There's no way val could stay here. Also,
we don't have money to get another apartment and also
try to keep our apartment. We're behind her rears with
the co op trying to manage that. Okay, yeah, she
should leave war torn air, but where she gonna go?
So that begs the question, who's in your apartment? The
grifter and her daughter and so the grifter is still

(49:11):
in your apartment. So we are now in July of
two thousand twenty two, and she is still in your
apartment three years anniversary, three years and counting, and nothing
in a system, a person who has learned how to
completely manipulate a system, and in essence, you've both been
run out of your house. Valentina is trapped in a

(49:34):
country right now that is in a war. You are
staying with a friend. But I think that the blast
zone around this is absolutely remarkable that one entitled person
that learned how to game a system has resulted in
two people who came about their homes struggles, scrimped and

(49:57):
saved to have it have an ess been kicked out
of their own home because once again it seems that
the narcissists always win. It's absolutely remarkable because I got
to tell you, I think I was holding out for
a happy ending, and you're saying, and we're moving back,
and she's there's still there. And as I mentioned, our
last fifteenth court date was May fourth, and we are

(50:22):
now two and a half months past that, where the
judge is still not ruled whether she will lift the
e rep stay and the judge says, you need to
be moving out, but my hands are tied because of
the e Rep. S Day, and I think she wants
to lift it, but it would be a precedent in Manhattan.
And here these legislators are, They're they're trying to get

(50:42):
good cause eviction law passed, and all sorts of things
that would make it even harder to evict somebody who
shouldn't be in a home. And as I went to
it earlier, I basically blamed the city. I blamed the
state at this point because I forgot to mention my
activist lawyer, one would look like we were going to
lose the lockout case. He crafted a federal suit against

(51:04):
the judge, had judges in New York and the grifter,
even though we knew we wouldn't getting m from the grifter.
And that's how the New York Post originally got the story.
The first press. We didn't go to the press press
came to us because they saw this federal case, and
they basically said, our position was my activist lawyer's position
was the state and city has confiscated our home without

(51:26):
due process. Essentially, your story is fascinating, hiding I must
going to go back for just one moment with something
you said when I asked you whether you really thought
of the grifters behavior as narcissistic, and you said, well,
her ex husband saw it that way, her ex roommates
saw it that way. You actually though, we're still thinking
about her backstory and how did she get to this place.

(51:47):
But let's face it, she's making choices, and many people
have difficult backstories and they don't steal apartments because that's
really what she did. Ultimately, the systems have failed. New
York has face iled, NYPD has failed, New York housing
authorities have failed. But at the end of the day,
the perpetrator is the grifter, you know. That's where the

(52:08):
responsibility lies. And whatever her backstory is is her back story,
and that doesn't explain away this behavior. Because she's crafty
enough to turn it on for the judge, to turn
it on when she needs to, so she is very skilled.
She knows what right and wrong look like because she
turns it on and off at will. So this is

(52:29):
not somebody who is wandering around completely confused and psychotic
and dazed. Since the person knows exactly what she is doing.
She knows exactly what she's doing. This is one of
the ultimate cases of injustice, and we know injustice really
can make healing so much harder. I think it's one
thing if you sat here and it told me I've
moved back into my apartment in the village and it's

(52:50):
gonna take a minute to pay it off, and I'd say, Okay,
they went through a nighttmare, they're back at their home.
Valentine's back. Instead, what you're giving me is Valentina's mother
has been murdered. She is in Ukraine, trapped by a
pandemic and then by a war. You can't get into
your home, and the court system is doing nothing to

(53:11):
help you with your situation, and the grifters still lives
in your apartment. There are so many injustices here that
I can't even stack them all up. So injustice impedes healing.
It's almost it can feel really challenging to heal when
there is so much injustice to be able to feel
whole again. So how though, how can we support you?

(53:34):
How can we support you? Well? Thank you for that.
Having these platforms to to get out the message is great, So,
you know, having those continued opportunities people who are out
there listening, just hear the story for what it is
and not pass judgment and figure out what can I
do in that and what can they do in their community.

(53:56):
So they may live in another city, other state in
the country, I'm sure they have similar situations there, and
get out and listen, vote all those kinds of things,
because that will help me knowing that going through having
gone through all this is helping to affect change, not
only here in New York City but elsewhere. And you

(54:17):
can go to my go fund me page. I think
it's help help a neighbor in the West Village, something
like that. But if you google Nightmare, share the New
York magazine the article that everything will come up. You know,
we continue to try to pay off our debt and
and just sharing the story that's the biggest thing. And
look for the law at least a New York City
to be crafted and roommate law and vote for it.

(54:41):
Maybe get in your community because especially with the pandemic now,
people this is happening all over. People are just staying
and taking advantage of the loopholes. Well again, thank you
so much. Like I said, I'm very grateful. Yeah, thank you.
So here are my takeaways after my conversation with High
Number one self compassion is a key tool in coping

(55:05):
with narcissistic abuse and prevent ourselves from falling into self blame.
Heidi did a lot of the right things, and systems
are limited in how much information we can get, especially
if somebody is using different names and the like. Heidi
did her due diligence, but due diligence doesn't quite work

(55:27):
with a toxic person. Continuing to beat ourselves up after
a narcissistic person takes advantage of us just prolongs the abuse.
When we think we are getting to know someone, which
is what she thought. Sadly, sometimes they're just manipulating us. Second,

(55:49):
don't let the two faces of narcissism trick you. In
this story, the grifter was able to show a polite
and composed face to a judge, be able to be
manipulative and abusive in private when she wanted her way.
The two faces are a signature of narcissism and drive

(56:11):
the confusion of these relationships. I'm about to give you
a pessimistic viewpoint, but sometimes you need to generalize from
the bad moments in a relationship and don't let the
good moments leave you feeling that you are reading a
toxic situation wrong. Our next takeaway is that sometimes narcissistic

(56:32):
and toxic abuse is bigger than just one relationship. These
are sometimes people that take advantage of systems and are
enabled by policies and authorities that clearly do not understand
the impact of these personality styles. One way to see
more people who are harmed by narcissistic abuse get justice

(56:56):
is to try to create just systems and how can
we do that? That means voting, contacting your representatives, and
pushing back on policies that seem designed to enable narcissistic
people rather than protect people from their manipulation and machiavellianism. Finally,

(57:21):
move slowly and carefully in any new relationship, especially relationships
that could raise potential legal vulnerabilities, like a roommate. Until
you get to know someone, keep your cards close to
your chest. It may be an abundance of caution, but

(57:42):
it may also protect you early in the game and
give you enough time to really assess a situation and
determine if it's safe or if you need to get out.
Thank you to all of you for asking your questions.
We got a question from someone I want to read
and answer. Someone writes, I wanted to check if you're

(58:04):
planning to explore the topics of abuse of power, cognitive narcissism,
spiritual bypassing, and other similar phenomena within the new age
or self development community as Unfortunately, those types of practices
are displayed by different coaches or spiritual gurus whose profiles

(58:25):
continue to pop up on different social media channels. I
happened to fall prey to someone who posed to work
as a qualified and well known hypnotherapist. I contacted him
after I was gas lit and eventually very badly bullied
by a group of women in a new work setting,

(58:46):
after I had decided to change jobs and found a
new position in a corporation located in the city of London.
Thank you so much for this, because spiritual bypassing, spiritual
abuse and some of the abuses that occur at the
hands of people who identify as gurus are incredibly important issues.

(59:06):
As we explore narcissistic abuse, many people will say, you know,
I've not gotten into an intimate relationship or even have
a family relationship like this, and yet tremendous harm came
to me in one of these so called spiritual spaces.
I promise you we will definitely be addressing many of
these topics and upcoming episodes, And as always, I really

(59:28):
appreciate you listening to this podcast and appreciate your questions
and your feedback. A big thank you to our executive
producers Jada Pinkett Smith, Valan Jethrow, Ellen Rakaton and Dr
Romeney de Vassila. And thank you to our producer Matthew Jones,
associate producer Mara Dela Rosa, and consultant Kelly Embling. And finally,

(59:53):
thank you to our editors and sound engineers Devin Donnaghy
and Calvin Bailiff. Two

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Dr. Ramini Durvasula

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Home Taken Over by a Squatter w/ Heidi Russell