BONUS: The Charles Barkley Interview

In this special bonus episode of NBA DNA, Hannah sits down with one of the greatest to play the game, Charles Barkley. Hannah and Sir Charles dig into his storied career (including when he almost joined the Trail Blazers!), his early years in Philly and golden years in Phoenix, and his pivot to broadcasting. Plus, how his mea culpa moment with Hannah helped him rethink his final years as a player. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So Ray smit Barkley's back. Lets you go up. It's
phenomenal talent.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Phenomenal talent, Lake Barkley, and he's filed down low.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
You're talking about box office in Marquis Vanu. Barckley's a
pr man's dream.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
He has.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Welcome to the second bonus episode of NBA DNA with me.
Hannah Storm, my guest today is a broadcast legend and
among the best to ever touch a basketball.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
The eight rebound already Barkley, Nobody cut him off.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Barkley. Charles Barkley's journey is a testament to his exceptional talent,
self confidence, and ability to think outside the box.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Charl's just take it over now.

Speaker 5 (00:52):
Oh that's the path of the year.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
After being named SEC Player of the Year in nineteen
eighty four at Auburn, he was drafted by the Philadelphia
seventy six ers fifth overall.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
To fou foun it out Have.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Over his sixteen year NBA career, he averaged twenty two
points and almost twelve rebounds a game. Remember the nickname
round Mound of rebound Field, my.

Speaker 6 (01:18):
Nickname, the brand through the Low Bowl food world, the
Crystal Kim put in myself a favorite, the wildload me
a ton of fun for a good time.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
For now, my favorite is a round mound rebound.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
He is a two time Olympic gold medalist, and at
the ninety two Games in Barcelona, he was the top
scorer on the Dream Team.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
You led your team and assists, You let them in rebounds,
you led them in points.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
The very next season, he moved to the Phoenix Suns,
capturing the NBA's MVP award and led the team to
the NBA Finals, losing to the Bulls in six games.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
The fans here and around America.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Join me in congratulating you.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
Charles Barclay, the nineteen ninety two three National Basketball Association Most.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Valuable Barkley spent four seasons in Phoenix, earning All Star
honors each year, and then another four at the Houston
Rockets before retiring in two thousand. He was enshrined into
the Basketball Hall of Fame in two thousand and six.

Speaker 7 (02:17):
Hellow, ladies and gentlemen, but man.

Speaker 8 (02:19):
We all know and love Charles Buckley.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
That was just the first chapter for Sir Charles, as
he became one of the top media personalities on the
planet for his work on TNTs Inside the NBA, Your gun,
Sir Charles ram bounding personality and no holds barred commentary
with a big dose of humor, all combined to make
Sir Charles a singular talent.

Speaker 6 (02:45):
God, you want us to win the world Championship.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I don't know if I go that much, y'all. I'd
up to him another night.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
How much he winds up in the cheerleading section and
Barkley two he doesn't want to get up.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
His TV colleagues call him the Chuckster, and as he
famously said back in the day, the one thing you
shouldn't call him is a role model. We spoke at
length ahead of our last episode on the Dream Team,
and no surprise, Charles's interview was just too good, too
insightful to cut down. So here it is in full.

(03:16):
I give you, Sir Charles. So Charles, first of all,
it is it's great to see you well.

Speaker 8 (03:28):
Number one. Thank you for having me. We've come a
long way, haven't we We have? We have It's so crazy.
You know, we both had incredible, amazing lives. But every
now and then you get like you know, because you
always got something else to do. But sometimes you sit
around like man, I come from a town of a
couple thousand people. You know, you go to Auburn, you

(03:50):
get drafted by the seventy six ers, and then the
rest is just like a blur. But it's been it's
been amazing. It's been fun, it's been sad times. It's
been great at times, it's been miserable at times. It's
just been an amazing journey. I'm so thankful and grateful
how it's turned out. But it's just been an amazing journey.

(04:11):
Going back to you know, when we first met. I mean, god,
the eighties was so long ago. It's crazy. The eighties
was so long ago, and now I'm a grandpa and everything.
It's just that that's a cool thing about us reminiscing today.
I'm ready, let's get it done.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
So like the eighty four you know, you were trying
out for the Olympic team in nineteen eighty four, and
back then, just for all the young people who are
listening to this, it was college players that went to
the Olympics and you had this incredible tryout with Bobby Knight.

Speaker 8 (04:43):
Yeah, you know, it was crazy, you know, and to
this day, I still don't know why he didn't like me.
You know, he had made up his mind I wouldn't
go make the team clearly because I played well. I
played great, actually, So they invited like it was like
it was one hundred and twenty players, one twenty to
one hundred to eighty sixty four and then down to
the final team. And I remember riding to the airport

(05:05):
with John Stockton, Carl Malone and Terry Porter and myself,
and we're like, we're better than some of those guys
they picked. I got a call from John Thompson like
the next week and he called my coach, Sonny Smith
at Auburn. He said, hey, Sonny, I want to tell
you about Charles. Can you get him in the office
and get you all on the speakerphone. He said, sure, John,

(05:26):
and John man rest in peace. One of the best
people I ever met. He says, son, I just want
you to know. And I have no idea why Charles
was the second best player. You should have made the team,
but Bobby didn't tell us. But we have no idea
why he didn't make the team. And I said, Coach,
that was so awesome for you to take the time
to call me, and blah blah blah. So he hangs

(05:46):
up the phone, and my Sonny looks at me and
he's like, you weren't the best player there. I said,
hell no, I said, Coach, I just met the best
basketball player I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
His name is Michael Jordan.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
That shut or Michael Jordan's North Carolina, the.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Number three pecond.

Speaker 8 (06:04):
He cannot run everybody, he cannot jump everybody, and he
as tough as hell. And I said, I've never and
I do. I'm used to playing against great players. I'm
playing against Boua and Turpino at Kentucky, I'm playing against
Dominique Wilkins and Georgia. And I said, Coach, it was incredible.
He said, I need to look out for him, and
obviously the rest is history.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
I mean he also led that team, that eighty four
team to a gold medal. They beat South Korea, they
went undefeated. But then in nineteen eighty eight, definitely not
the same level of success. So had you thought that
your chances to play in an Olympics had completely passed
you by?

Speaker 8 (06:44):
And then oh, yeah, for sure. You know what was crazy?
You know, we were mad, to be honest with you,
because those foreign countries were using NBA players against college kids.
You got Big Sabonas blotted d Bag Sharunas, Marcellona's Oscar Schmid,
some of the greatest players ever the play against eighteen
nineteen year old kids, and of course it was just

(07:05):
a matter of time before we lost. And then David Stern,
first of all, he was the best commissioner I think
in sports history. The genius of what he did was
I don't know if he really cared about us winning
the gold medal, but what he did and you see
today was made basketball international. I think I saw a
stat recently we got like over one hundred. We only

(07:26):
have a little over four hundred players in the NBA,
but I think like one hundred and fifty up from
foreign countries. That's incredible. I mean, that's fled out incredible
thanks to David Stern.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, you're talking to MVP's NBA champions, like some of
the most important and talented players in the league. And
even a guy like I think of Derk Novinsky saying
that he saw you play in the Olympics and you
were his inspiration and he changed his number and he
saw you on TV get five seconds to do it.

(07:57):
Davinski Evans glued to him, it's the.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
This game, what's really crazy about the dirt thing?

Speaker 8 (08:08):
And see Nike was ahead of the curve also, so
we would go to foreign countries during the summer, Me
and Michael Scotty Pipp and David Robinson guys like that.
So we go over to Germany. Dirk is like eighteen
reil fan. We play him. He's got thirty at halftime.
I'm like, who the hell is that kid right there?

(08:28):
And then he's got another twenty five or so in
the second half and I walk up and say, yo, man,
who are you? And he got that thick German actus.
I'm dirting to this blah blah blah, and I says,
hold are you. He's like, I'm eighteen. I said, you
want to go to Auburn. No, I've told this story
Bubba player before. I said you want to go to Auburn.
I said, I don't care what we'll take you at Auburn.

(08:48):
He says, I said, hey, guys from Night can get
his information. But he says, well, I have to go
in the army. And I guess that's part of the
German thing.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
I have to do.

Speaker 8 (08:58):
You seven feet tall, You're not going into Army let
that that ship is seal. I got niked to get
his information and then like I think the next year,
that's when they still letting young kids go to the NBA,
and he got drafted that next year. I would I
told him, a dude, I don't care how much money
you want, you can go to Auburn, I fly your
family over here.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Whatever.

Speaker 8 (09:20):
Right now, he's the greatest foreign player ever. But the
way that that man, the Joker is playing and balling.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Right now, Yeah, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 8 (09:27):
Man, it's so honor the privilege to watch that kid
play basketball.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
I mean, they'll never in history be another team like
the Dream Team. You know you Larry Bird, Magic Johnson,
Jordan Pippen, h all those guys that you said, you
know that that didn't make the eighty four team too,
like John Stockton's on it. You Ing Robinson, where did
you feel that you fit in to that team? I

(09:51):
mean you were the leading scorer actually in those Olympics.
It wasn't Michael Jordan, but what was like your place
among that group?

Speaker 8 (09:58):
It really validated at my confidence level in myself to
be honest, when they asked me to be on the team,
because you know, I'm in Philly and my team sucked.
So when you're a great player on a bad team,
mentally you're like, damn, am I any good?

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Frustration for the Sixers they had three three point attempts.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
You get, you get mentally down.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
But the Pistons come from seventeen down to beat the
Sixers and sweep the seasons.

Speaker 8 (10:27):
And when I got the call, I'm like, maybe I
am a great player and I've been doing this thing.
But then the one thing I found out how easy
the game was when you play with other great players.
It's kind of like when I got traded to Phoenix
and they gave me Dan Marley and Kevin Johnson and
Mark West, those guys, I'm like, no, no, I was
a much better player in Philly.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
I just got half the.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Spirit Bay Welcome the greatest team ever a.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Supple, you know.

Speaker 8 (10:53):
And it was so crazy because I tell people, well,
first of all, we had no idea how big it
was going to be. It was ten thousand people waiting
outside on us every day. We had a helicopter above
the bus. We had a police car in front of
the bus and back of the bus. We had two
guys on a motorcycle beside the bus, and one of
them had the machine guns along the highway. When we

(11:17):
were going to the game, there were hundreds of people
with steins. It was like, we're like, whoa. You know,
most of us had accomplished a lot. All of us
who are, you know, probably thirty or older except Christian.
So we were like, oh, this is a really big deal.

(11:37):
And so Dailey was like, y'all, this is a really
big deal because if y'all lose, it's going to be
the biggest upset in sports history.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
We're like, whoa. That's what we didn't think of. We
didn't factor that end.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
I don't know how you managed to go out at night.
And just by way of reference, like your hotel was
on Las Round Loss, which is you know, all bars
and restaurants are there.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
How did you guys.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Even manage to go anywhere given the attention that you
just described.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
The only thing two people to my recollection went out
were me and John Stockton, because there's just a video
that's hilarious. John's walking with like with his kids, and you.

Speaker 8 (12:20):
Know, John looked so normal and he he said, oh,
I came to the left the justice see the Dream
Team he said, all these guys on your shirt. He said,
just this, dude, this, dude, this, he said, oh that's
John Stockton.

Speaker 6 (12:33):
The other night he's an all the players. So you
got all the players right there on your shirt is
Charles the only one you've ever seen, you know.

Speaker 8 (12:39):
It was like a two two to three week thing
and they're like, guys, y'all can't go out, and we're
like why, Because then we figured out why we had
all the security because we all been getting a bunch
of death threats.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
I said, We're like what, whoa like what? And so
the team that's funny.

Speaker 8 (12:54):
After about a week and a half, I said, yo, man,
because me, Magic, Michael, and Scotty played hard every single night,
from probably seven o'clock to three in the morning, every
single night. And after about a week to ten days,
I was like, yo man, my head because we were
going to practice to the games. Then we go to
Magic's room every night and gamble like the degenerates we were.

(13:19):
And the people, obviously they were excited, they were gracious,
but I had to get out the hotel and so
I finally said I was at my breaking point. I
gave man, somebody gonna kill me? They're gonna kill me.
I had to go on. I had to go into
Los Raungbelas. I had to.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Hey, who did who did the best? I'm assuming those
were poker games, right, Oh?

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Okay, yeah, well the.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
Best cart who was the best card player?

Speaker 8 (13:46):
Well when we played we played poker too. Michael tries
to always buy the pot, but he don't realize that
we were all rich, you know. So you know, he's
always because him and Magic always well Magic Magic got
the Laty money now, but Michael's always had that Nike money, right,
so he was always the richest. But man, it was

(14:08):
so much fun. I mean, we order a case of
beer every night, but it was so crazy and awesome
being with.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Those guys, you know you had You've always been like,
really outspoken about social issues, but I remember, you know,
when Magic and Elsie was HIV positive, you you were
very outspoken about your support for him, and I'm wondering
how that played out later in the Olympics. It was still,
you know, an issue that was being discussed by some
countries and so forth. But just in terms of you

(14:38):
and Magic and your relationship, did you guys ever discuss
how supportive and vocal you had been well.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
The first thing that happened was Magic and Larry Bird,
of two most important figures in NBA history, Urvin Magic Johnson.
We said that he and Larry Bird are more alike than.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
Different than is twenty three twenty one the makers now
Bird coming down the floor as is.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
The coach says he's number one.

Speaker 8 (15:02):
Bless all these guys how much money they make today.
But if it went from Magic and Bird, they turned
their whole situation around. When we got to the NBA.
When I got there, me and Michael in nineteen eighty
forty five, d average salary was two hundred thousand dollars.
And when Magic and Bird came in, it changed the
whole dynamic of the sport.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
What a pass by Magic Johnson?

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Want a pass and he's doing a dance coming down
the floor, Sober's with it.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
The Lakers fight five.

Speaker 8 (15:28):
Because it was two black, two thuggery, two minute drug
guys and we were taking the lady. There was only
one game a week on Sunday. People forget those because
every game is on television now. It was a totally
different environment. I remember when Magic announced it was HIV positive.
I cried because he had been so great to me.

(15:50):
And the first phone call I made was Sabilly cunning him.
I said, Billy, can I wear you observe it for
one year? To just show love to Magic Johnson is
of course you can't, and he gave me his blessing.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
I did my homework first about HIV, but I was.

Speaker 8 (16:07):
Like, man playing basketball or doing stuff with people, and
that's not going to spread the disease. And I wanted
to show love and support for Magic, And you know,
he always gave me love for saying and speaking up
and I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Taking roll, I've got to teach himself and.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
He put on a show with me. So your teammates,
with all of these incredible guys, the expectations are off
the chart, but so is the attention. And that initial
game against Angola, and you had said, I don't know
anything about Angola, but Angola's in trouble. But during the

(16:49):
game you got a technical foul for elbowing a player
and it was it was a big deal. What do
you remember about that incident and sort of that aftermath
of what happened, how people reacted.

Speaker 8 (17:01):
Yeah, so I told you, guys, young my man calmed
down a little bit. I said, he's like he was
playing aggressive. I said, yo, my man, calm down. I've
been to light twice that you don't three strikes, you're out,
So what's really funny? I said, hey, I've told you twice,
please stop. And I just clocked him and then everybody
went crazy. And then I said, well, astually, if you

(17:21):
guys did your homework. The next game, they had a
full out brawl against Spain and I said, I told
y'all to do was playing dirty. And I said, guys,
I'm not going to apologize for the way I play.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
I'm a very physical player. I'm a very aggressive player.

Speaker 8 (17:38):
I want to do twice And I said, y'all going
to criticize me, I can deal with it.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
The next game was against Croatia and Michael and Scottie
were well aware that Tony Kuk coach was on the
other team, and this goes back to their feelings about
Jerry Krause and the moves that he had made. They
were determined to make a point in that game.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
They made as much so.

Speaker 8 (18:01):
Michael and scott had talked before Togain like this guy
makes more money than both of us and he's avaging,
like forty points a game, because you know, you know,
when you're a great player on that four and team,
you get every shot. Michaels and Scotty said, we're going
to take turns stopping him. And at that time they
were probably the two best defenders. Dennis Robins in the conversation,

(18:22):
but they were the two best defenders in the whole world, Hannah.
It was like Picasso painting. They would not let him
dribble every time he took a shot. They contested. It
was brutal.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
What was for you your proudest moment of those Olympics
of being on that dream team.

Speaker 8 (18:42):
As a person who's been blessed to accomplish some a
lot of amazing things in their life, the most surreal
feeling I've ever had is standing on that podium when
they're playing the national anthem. It is one of the coolest.
Like we were looking at each other like yeo, man,
I'm get goosebumps. I mean, you know, I've got Magic

(19:02):
and Bird and Michael and we're looking at each other like, man,
this is pretty special. And so to me, that was
the coolest part for me.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
When you look back on that time and you had
so much basketball still left to play. And I'm sure
at one point you know you thought, you know, I'm
gonna win titles, I'm going to do this, I'm going
to do that. And you did accomplish a lot. But
when you really look back on the breadth of your career,
that gold medal, I'm just wondering where that ranks among
your accomplishments.

Speaker 8 (19:33):
Well, it probably has to be at the top because
I didn't win the championship. You know, my biggest regret
is I wasn't able to give those fans in Phoenix
a championship. Obviously I wanted to win it in Philly,
but they had already won. But man, when I got
traded to Phoenix, it was like because I was so
miserable my last three years in Philly. We had awful
teams and I was just shriveling on the vine.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
Last week, we had your new coach, Doug Moe in
the studio with us in New York and we put
up the quote that you issued after he was hired,
and here it is. You can bring in pat Riley,
Newt Rockney, anybody you want. With the team we've got,
we still aren't going to win. So you feel that
Doug Moow, isn't enough. Would you still like to be traded.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Only if the team.

Speaker 6 (20:18):
I've enjoyed playing in Philadelphia for eight years and I
would like to finish my career there. But looking at
the Eastern Conference, it's too tough to be in an
Eastern Conference right now, with Charlotte coming on, Miami teams
like that. So if we're not going to get better,
I prefer to go on. If that's possible, let's.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
See eighty three found already Barklay.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Nobody cut him off. Barkley.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
They called that coach the coach.

Speaker 8 (20:42):
One day, my agent calls me. This is three years
before I got traded. He said, the six are going
to trade you to the Lakers. And I get all
my friends and we go out and get drunk. This
is about I get a call that morning, mid morning,
because I'd been rumored to get traded for like three years.
So finally I was like, man, I just want this
to be over so I can get a fresh start night,

(21:04):
because it takes a toll on you mentally to pick
up the newspaper and watch it on television and your
team suck.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Sure, Oh yeah, you're always getting asked. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
So they tell me.

Speaker 8 (21:12):
I get amazed to be getting traded to the Lakers,
and I'm on cloud nine. I'm so pumped and excited.
I get like four of my friends together. We go
out and we started day drinking, celebrating. I get a
call like four hours later, Chuck the six bagged out
the deal. I'm like what And we got a game
that night. But I never wanted to miss a game

(21:34):
because I didn't think it was fair to the fans
or to my teammates. I have no idea how I
played that night. When I got to the game, I
took a shower, I brushed my teeth, I drunk.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
As much listerine as possible. I breast it.

Speaker 8 (21:48):
I knew I smelt like if somebody a little match
around me, I might have exploded. But I was like
and I to this day, I don't even remember. It
was so long ago, how bad or good I played.
But when I got traded to Phoenix, man, it was
it was, it was. It was a godsender.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Obviously you knew about the Suns, but did you know
anything about Phoenix at the time, Like, what were your
impressions before you got there of the city.

Speaker 8 (22:24):
I don't know. You know, when you play in the East.
When you play in the East, you go out west
once a year. So when I went to Phoenix, it
was either just for the day before and then you
play the game, then you leave, or you don't spend
a lot of time there. I knew it was beautiful scenery, uh,
and it was always great to get off the East

(22:45):
Coast during the winter.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
But I'll tell you a funny starting.

Speaker 8 (22:49):
So we played in Phoenix and I ordered some golf clubs,
and that was like five months before I got traded.
So I get arrested that summer for fighting Milwauke, and
I'm writing a letter to the Sixers. Me and my agent,
my attorney. We worked on a letter all week. You know,

(23:09):
the Philadelphia fans have always been great to me. I
don't want to alienate them. Let's write a letter to
the Sixers. Well, give it to them when I get
back to Philly next Monday, because I was on trial
all week, and I said, hey, I want to thank
y'all for the draft of me and this opportunity, but
it's time for us to go our separate ways. I
don't want to piss the fans off, but They've been

(23:31):
great to me the entire time, but I want you
all to know I'm not coming back to training camp.
Y'all handle this how y'all want to. I would like
to keep it civil, but I just have had enough.
I've been on the trading block for three years. It's
driving me crazy. I'm wasting my talent blah blah blah.
So I get ac quitted rightfully.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
So let the record show.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Let the record show. I get home.

Speaker 8 (23:58):
This is a Friday night, get home late on my
doorstep are my pen golf clubs. Iously me and my
friends celebrate the weekend. I'm mail the letter Monday morning
to the Sixers. I get a call Sunday nights. You've
been traded to the Suns. I ordered the golf clubs

(24:18):
like three or four or five months ago. I actually
have forgotten that I order them. And they're like, I'm like,
what you got traded to the Suns. You got a
seven o'clock flight the Phoenix in the morning. But it
was so ironic that my golf clubs came and I
got traded to Phoenix. And I'll tell you another story.
Two summers before I flew to Portland to meet with

(24:40):
the Trail Blazers on my own dime. I flew out.
I did. I had had enough. They had lost to
the Bulls and the championship. They had, they had a
lot of talent. I felt that. I felt like they
were one of the few teams that could actually give
up the I think the sign traded four players for me.

(25:01):
So I flew to Portland and I said, can I
meet with the general manager?

Speaker 3 (25:04):
And you weren't with your agent or anybody.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
You just I didn't tell anybody.

Speaker 8 (25:09):
I was going, okay, I said, this is your roster
right here. Y'all got the most talented roster in the NBA.
All y'all need is this guy who can score in
the post and demand the double team. He's like, you're right,
And I said, you guys are not going to win
the championship. Let y'all trade for me. You can give
up these guys. These guys, these guys. And I never

(25:31):
told anybody that story. And I flew back to Philly.
He called me and said, Chuck, we're gonna stick with
what we got. I said, well, thank you for taking
the meeting, but good luck to y'all. And that's so
that that happened. Two years before, I said, eventually got traded.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
That's amazing when you think about had he had an
open mind and wow, I mean you with the Blazers
would have been unbelievable. I had no idea that that.
I had no idea that ever happened. That's crazy.

Speaker 8 (26:00):
I didn't tell anybody about it. I didn't tell my agent. Wow,
Because you know what's so funny. I told that story
for the first time about three years ago, and I says,
y'all still owe me thirteen hundred and twenty nine dollars
for the flight back and forth. And three years ago
Dame Lillar bought me a check for thirteen hundred and
twenty nine dollars.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
And I was never from the Trailblazer, I said, I'll
never cast a check.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
That's so cool. I just love that. And that's so
you like you always, you know, do things your own
way right, and sometimes see what other people don't see.
And here you go to this team and they had
been the conference semifinals, they had lost of the Trailblazers
and five and you get there and you have kJ

(26:45):
and you have Dan Marley and you have actually have
Danny Ainge on that team too, and you bring the
ingredient they had been missing trying to be back.

Speaker 8 (27:01):
You know, it was so good. So when I got
to Phoenix, I said, okay, guys, this is the deal.
I think I'm the best player in the world. Most
people think it's Michael Jordan. He's great, don't get me wrong,
but he just had more help than me. And they
looked at me like, I said, we're going to play
them in the finals. This is that training camp. I said,
We're going to the finals and we're gonna play the Bulls.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
Well you knew that. Wow, that's amazing, Okay I did.

Speaker 8 (27:25):
I said, I think I'm the best player in the world.
Y'all gonna figure it out too. Once we get started.
And then we got off to a decent start. And
I remember the turning point in our season. The Bulls
came to town and I know Michael really really well,
and he's like, we're gonna play these guys in the finals.
Let's kick their ass. And they kicked our ass good.

(27:47):
And I remember sitting in the locker room, I said, guys,
they sent us a message tonight. I said, we got
to get better, we got to be all in, and
we got to get better and Hannah. That was a
turning point in our season. I think we went on
like a for the thirteen game winning streak, and then
we finished with the best record in the NBA where

(28:07):
we got all the time. Obviously, we got to the
finals and lost to the Bulls, and that was actually,
to be honest with you, I remember that's the first
time in my life. I remember telling my daughter because

(28:30):
I'd always see to that y'all gonna win. I said
every time we played, to say that, yeah, we're gonna win.
Dad ain't gonna let you down. And I remember getting
home after Game two. First of all, I really regret
game one because that was my mistake because I wasn't
aggressive because normally at home I would try to get
other guys going because it was a different thing. Playing

(28:51):
in the finals. Finals were a different animal, and I
did not have us ready to play in game one
the lights were too bright. But in game too, I said, hey,
let's go, and I came out and I played great.
I had forty and fifteen something like that. I'll hardly
posted guy, but Michael had fifty.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
And I remember getting home that night and my daughter
was upsets. He's dead. You told me y'all were gonna win.
I said, Christiana, let me tell you something. I've never
said this before. I think that guy is better at
basketball than me play. And I was like sitting there.

Speaker 8 (29:37):
I was in my office, just sitting there, like looking
at game stuff, like what can I do different? What
can I do different? But the truth of the matter,
Michael was better. But I would that was the first
and that was to be honest with you. No matter
who I played against, I was like, no, I can
play as good as lab Ry. He just had Kevin
McHale and Robert Paris and Dennis Johnkanson.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
But you were the MVP of the league that year.

Speaker 8 (30:02):
Yes, But but I got a chance to prove it
against Michael and he beat me head up and I
was like, damn, that guy better at basketball than me.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
And that was really beyond you. That the first time
in my life i'd said that.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
The game that I remember vividly. First of all, it
was on my birthday. I had covered the Sun's all
season loone because I was a Western Conference reporter, a
mod was the Eastern Conference reporter. And the triple overtime
game at Chicago Stadium and the ball goes.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
To Phoenix with twenty seconds romantic look. Sun's lead one
twenty nine, one twenty one there at Chicago Stadium is
filing out as bus stop handles and the Sun's just
looking to run the clock down and a remarkable comfort
behind victory. The Phoenix sucks a triple overtime after fetid

(30:56):
the Chicago Balls on twenty nine.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
I mean, first, well, there were billboards in Chicago, right
like everyone in Chicago thought, all right, we won these
games and Phoenix, we're gonna come here. We're going to
come Chicago and wrap this thing up.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
And it was not the case.

Speaker 8 (31:14):
And you know what was frustrating. The two things pissed
me off about that. We're getting ready for Game five.
So I get a call from my agent. I don't
let people call me on game day because I once
I get back to my room, I want to get
mentally prepared and think about strategy and how they're going
to double me and where is double coming from? And
you know, where's my outlet pass and things like that,

(31:35):
So I don't like to be bothered on game day.
My agent calls me and says, hey, I know you
don't like to be bothered. But the guy in Disney
says they want to do something different. I said, what
they want to do? He says, they want to pick
somebody on the losing team. And say, I'm still going
to Disney World. And I says, excuse me, what I know?

(31:58):
I said, what did you just say? He says they
want to try something different, they want to get somebody
out to lose the team. And said, I'm still going
to Disneyland or World whatever. I said, Yo, man, you
tell that dude to kiss my And then the second thing, Hannah,
I'm watching the news. They boarding up their windows and

(32:20):
he says, guys, please don't destroy the city when we
win the championship tonight.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
I remember, yep.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
I'm like, what up? And so we go, we go
to the game.

Speaker 8 (32:32):
Everybody's quiet on the bus, and you know, you have
all your crap on the board.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
I say, yo, man, put on there. We are not
going to lose a night and let these tolds celebrate.
That's all.

Speaker 8 (32:45):
We're roll on the board because you know, we don't
play this team. We know them, forget the X and o's.
And at that point we knew we were not going
to lose Game five, and unfortunately we lost Game six.
But those were thing that really was crazy about that
those games in Chicago, they were crazy.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Three at two tons seconds riding of a second overtime bill.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
What do you remember about that triple overtime game? I
still have a ticket stub. You know, the Phoenix Suns
used to put, like, you know, photos from the season before,
and so I have this ticket stub of me interviewing
you and kJ after the triple overtime win.

Speaker 5 (33:31):
Hey, I'm here with Kevin Johnson and Charles Barkley. First
of all, Charles, a heroic effort on your part. How
much pain were you playing in tonight?

Speaker 6 (33:38):
Well, I know I can't use pain excuse I can't
believe how I feel right now.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
I know I'm the best one on the best and
you know the Sons used it the next season and
I got one of those. But that was I mean
to me, that that was That was one of the
most memorable games that I've ever been involved in. I'm
just wondering what your memories were of that night.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Those games.

Speaker 8 (34:00):
I tell you what, those games was interesting. They're only
fun if you win them. It's probably, to be honest with you,
that's probably the most fun because not didn't want to
triple overtime. But the situation that went to triple over
time in and the Suns. I think we're the only
two teams we've done it twice because I remember that
first game in the Boston Garden with guard herd and

(34:20):
making shots and they want to triple overtime. Those are
only two games ever in the finals ever went to
triple overtime. You know, Hannah, when you win that first,
it's got to be the flating if you lose that game.
But when you win that game, you're kind of floating
on cloud nine. And then do it on the road,
You're not even tired, like you you just like, I

(34:43):
can't believe what I just witnessed. And it was so
much fun and surreal to be a part of that game.
It was it was great.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
You were playing with an elbow injury and need It looks.

Speaker 5 (34:55):
As if that injury may affect Charles barklay an idea
has not been able to shoot in two days and
suffering the injury to his right elbow. Keep in mind
that is the elbow of his shooting hand.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Lady, and I remember talking to you like that was
the pregame report. I was like Charles, how's your elbow?
And you smile at me and you're like, it's I'm fine,
But but you were, you know, playing with a pretty
significant injury.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, it looks worse than it is. That burst or sack.
It just I fell on the floor and it burst
and it just fills up and fluid. But man like,
there was nothing going to keep me out of that game,
because that was like when you get to the NBA Finals,
everybody who watches basketball is watching. It's a different animal.

(35:39):
You know.

Speaker 8 (35:39):
I've heard guys talk about the Super Bowl, which is
only equivalent that I can compare it to. But like
I said, I've always felt bad that I did not
have my team ready for the bright lights in Game one,
because you know, I had been in Philly my entire career,
so there's nothing brighter than playing in Philly or New
York or Boston or playing for the Lakers, and always

(36:01):
tell people the pressure, the bright lines, the attention, that
there's always writer in those big cities. My philosophy, like
I said earlier, had always been like, hey, let these
other guys get going, try to get them going. But
we got off to such a bad start and we
could never recover. That's really the only game they outplayed us.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
And I think you had to be in Phoenix. And again,
I spent about half my NBA sideline reporting life in
Phoenix because you guys were so so good and such
a TV draw, too so popular, you were so good,
and the city was so insane for you. I mean,
those crowds were among the very best in the NBA,

(36:43):
and so sure you extrapolate that into oh my god,
we're in the finals, and the expectations of just the community.
I mean, everything was, everything was crazy, Everything was magnified.

Speaker 8 (36:58):
If you have to go back and understand, we don't
have all those other sports and penis at the time.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Exactly, it's just about the Phoenix Suns. Those people lived
and died.

Speaker 8 (37:06):
That's why I said, that's my biggest regret, and I've
been able to get them a championship. It was such
an emotional ride because we're a number one seed. We
lost the first two games at home to the Lakers.
People forget that we would be we would have been
the first number one seed to lose to an eight seed.
So we lose the first two games at home and

(37:26):
we're like, damn, we are choking like dogs, we're gonna
be the first number one seed to lose. So I'm
sitting at my locker. I'm sitting there and I'm like,
how can I get my team back together? And I
know the reporters are coming for me because I just
got the MVP. I know they were coming for me.
So I'm sitting there on my head down. I'm like,

(37:47):
and I'm thinking to myself, Okay, we gotta win. We gotta,
we gotta. We're gonna be all right. I got to
make sure I don't do anything to say anything that
makes things worse. When we go to LA. I got
to get my team pumped up. And these guys started
running towards me, get ready to chuck. And one of
the reports said, you hear what Paul Westfall just said.

(38:07):
I said, no, what do you just say? He says, guys, relaxed.
We're going to go to LA and win game three.
We're gonna go to La La and win game four.
We're gonna come back home and win game five. And
people gonna say, man, that was a hell of a series.
I said, he said that, huh love it? And I said,
coach is right. And from that point on, Hannah the room.

(38:32):
The locker room went from doom and gloom to sunshine
and butterflies. It was really a surreal feeling because we
were so down and depressed and Paul westfall rest in peace.
We lost him last year when he took all the
pressure all out locker room. When he said that, I
mean it was so like a Listen you look the

(38:54):
first two games at home and going on the road.

Speaker 7 (38:57):
And going there to going there. Yeah, let me tell
you he got to La. It was one of the
coolest environments. They were going crazy before the game. They
had Randon number say I love La the career.

Speaker 8 (39:11):
And we won the first game, but we still got
to go back again for game four, same rowdy thing.
But once we got back to Phoenix, man, the people,
what if we used to live in Phoenix? Those people
love the Suns.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
The Western Conference was so much fun during those years.
But you go to the Western Conference Finals against the Sonics,
I mean, let's not forget that, and you dropped forty
four and you have twenty four rebounds and you close
out game seven in Phoenix. That had to be one
of the great performances of your entire career.

Speaker 8 (39:51):
Easily the best and I'm gonna tell you how that
came about. Frank Johnson was my veteran guy. So I
cause it. Frank, let's go talk and everybody's nervous, excited,
whatever word you want to use. I said, Yo, what
can I do in the next forty eight hours to
get this team up and ready to go for Game seven?
He said, oh, I'm not worried. I said, what do

(40:14):
you mean, not worried? I said, I'm not worried, but
I need to get the team. I got to get
our spirits up, make sure we ready to go. He said, Chum,
you've never been to the finals, have you? I said no.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
He says, you just want MVP, right.

Speaker 8 (40:26):
He said, all you got to do is play the
best game you ever played, and we will follow. I said,
what he says, you told us we were going to
the finals. All you got to do is play your best.
We're going to follow you. And I said, wow, Okay,
and Hannah, that's the best game I've ever played in
my life.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
How long did it take you to I don't know.
You probably never get over right, losing an NBA finals.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
You know, you never get over it.

Speaker 8 (41:04):
Because I think that when people don't understand, every year
you start basketball, you put seven eight months of your
life into it, and if you don't get the ultimate prize,
and very seldom you get that far. You know, you know,
Allen Iverson said something to me one time. Who won
the all time great? He says, man, it's hard to win.
I thought I was gonna win two or three championship.

(41:25):
I said, dude, it's hard to win. Everything has to
go perfect. You have to have you know, you have
to have a good team first and foremost. You got
to have some young guys, some old guys, a good mixture.
Like a lot of times, by the time your team
get good, you're too old to carry them. Oh the
young guys ain't good enough to help you. But you

(41:45):
never get over it because after that our team changed.
You know. We had training camp the next year and
I remember talking with Jerry Cleangelo. He says, what do
you think. I said, well, we're gonna have a good team.
I'm not sure we're going to get back to the finals.
He said, why do you say that. I said, well,
the priorities on the team have changed. This guy's complaining

(42:08):
about playing time. Now, this guy's still playing about who's
starting this guy's complaining about his contract.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I said, because if you win, you have to all
be on the same page. But with success, everybody agendas changed.
Like when we first get when I got to Phoenix,
We're like, let's get to the finals and let's win
the championship. But with success, a lot of people change. Yes, yeah,

(42:37):
And so we had good team.

Speaker 8 (42:39):
And then the next two years we lost to the Rockets,
who won because we were we were the second, first
or second best team in the NBA, and we played
the Rockets in two gruel and seven game series. They
won back to back championship and.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Clark play gets around Houston reverst layout, path of real
about you.

Speaker 8 (42:56):
Know, and all I really wanted. And I got three
shots at the championship and I went over three. I
can live with that.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
You can live with that because you got there.

Speaker 8 (43:06):
Yeah, because you know, all you want is a chance.
Because things start going bad for me and Billy, so
I'm turning to a superstar. I am a superstar at
this point. We got the number one pick in the draft,
and I'm excited to play with Brad Dherty. I'm like,
we're gonna be good for the next ten twelve years.

(43:26):
You know, I'm like twenty three, twenty four, I'm starting
to do my thing, and we don't we All we
need was a really good player or a great player
with it. And I said, man, when I get Brad Doherty,
I like my chances, right. So we go out drinking
to celebrate the night before the draft. I get a
call from Phil Jackson, a great writer in Philadelphia. It's

(43:48):
like five thirty in the morning. I said, what happened?
He said, the sixth is traded the number one picking
the draft. I said, the sixths are not that stupid,
So how do we traded Brad Doughty and number trade
finished for Roy Hanson, who was a good, solid player
and not all that to make it think it feels
that now long is y'all stupid? And trade away the
number one pick? Y'all trade and made another stupid trade.

(44:10):
We traded Moses Malone, who was my mentor to the
to the Bullets at the time, but Jeff Ruhlin, who
never played with me. So I go to bed one
night thinking, man, Moses, because most is the most important
person in my basketball career. When I was a rookie.
You know, I played in college about three hundred pounds.

(44:31):
But you know, college shape ain't pro shaped. Right when
I get to Philly, I'm not playing a lot and unbelievably.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Great thing have.

Speaker 8 (44:39):
Moses Malone lived in the same villain as me, and
I said, Moses, can I talk to you? I said,
can I come up tonight and talk to you? And
he says, sure, young fellow. I said, Moses, why am
I not getting to play? He's a son, You're fat
and you're lazy. I'm like what, I'm like, what, Charles?

(45:00):
You weighed two ninety five three hundred pounds, and you
got a lot of talents. You can't work hard enough.
You can't sustain you're working. And you know, it broke
me a little bit because I went and cried about it,
and he said he called me. He said, if you
want to be a great player, I'll help you lose weight.
And Hannah, this dude took me on his wing and

(45:22):
made me lose fifty pounds and the rest is history.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
You ended up playing with the Rockets and actually had
a chance. This was a really good team. Do you
remember in nineteen ninety seven, So at that time I
was hosting the NB on NBC and it had kind
of gotten back to you. I was saying, you know,

(46:00):
Barkley calls it like he sees it. He mentions players
who've won titles with the Rockets, the three with the
most significant playing timer, Keem Clyde and Mary o Ellie,
and you were saying, at least one of them, we
didn't know which one was providing a lack of daysical effort. Right,
So I had said that on TV that got back
to you. Maybe not my exact quote, but somebody was like, oh, Charles,

(46:22):
did you hear she said this?

Speaker 5 (46:24):
Right?

Speaker 3 (46:24):
Do you remember this?

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (46:26):
I remember number one. I took a shot at you
and I was wrong. But it's so funny you had this.
I had this conversation with Ernie the other day about aging.
We're kind of talking about Klay Thompson. Man, when you
start to lose it as a player, it's tough, it's frustrating,
it's disappointing, it's heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Whatever said word you want to use.

Speaker 8 (46:49):
It took me a while to grow up and accept
the fact, like, yo, man, you got to check your
ego at the door. And you still think you Charles
Barkley from Philidelph, You're from Phoenix and he's just an
Asian jock, and I said something about you that I
shouldn't have said. I was one hundred percent wrong, and
I actually, you know, actually that actually helped me, believe

(47:11):
it or not, our little disagreement, because I actually went
to the coach after that and said, hey, coach, do
me a favor and start Kevin Willis instead of me
and Rudy, who was great to me. He was great
to me, he says Charles. I said, Coach, I'm good
with it. I'm not the same guy. I'm not the
same guy. You did really helped me in that aspect,

(47:35):
being honest in your critique. I had to look in
the mirror, says, you know what, She's right, I'm not
the same guy. So I did, and I went to Kevin.
I said, Kevin, I'm gonna go to the coach and
tell him to take me out the starting lineup, and
it's gonna help me two ways. Number one, I'm not
the same guy. But the best thing, and I had

(47:57):
a little success coming off the bench, because you know,
you plan against best players.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
It's a lot.

Speaker 8 (48:03):
I tell people there's them against starters against bench players,
Like even though I sucked, I'm not as bad as
these other suck bench players.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
You know, you know.

Speaker 8 (48:13):
But to get back to our original point, it was
a learning experience for me, and I get to use
it now more because because when you were in the fight, everything,
every every bullet hurts, every every critique hurts. Doctor J
gave me some great advice one time. He says, before
you overreact to criticism, the first thing you have to

(48:36):
ask yourself is it true?

Speaker 1 (48:38):
And I said, what do you mean? He says, we
can get criticized.

Speaker 8 (48:42):
You can't get mad at every time somebody says something
about you, because sometimes it's true.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
So that was a really good learning experience for me.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
The funny thing is I really wasn't criticizing you. I
was just speculating as to who you were talking about.
That was giving a lack of daisical effort. But but
whatever got back to you and what it felt like
in the moment. But then you're such a honest and
self aware and good person. And we ended up on
the set together, you know a few weeks later at

(49:15):
the NBA Finals and you actually apologize, which is like
on national TV at the you know, halftime of a
finals game, which is just you know, I'll just never
forget that.

Speaker 5 (49:25):
Hi everyone, Hannah Storm back in Salt Lake City. I'm
joined by Charles Barkley of the Houston Rockets, and Charles,
let's rite off the bat here, clear something up and
address some sexist comments that you made during the course
of the Western Conference Finals, one of them being that
women should not announce men's sporting events.

Speaker 6 (49:41):
You know, that was something that was number one, that
was seconds and stupid, but it was something that was
said and Jess and I want to a person, apologize
to you and all the other women out there who
do men's sports, and I want you to keep up
the good work. But it was just some set and
Jess that was taken away out of contact, but it
was still stupid.

Speaker 5 (49:57):
Now, last night we both had the opportunity to attend
a pre season women's.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
NBA game in Houston.

Speaker 5 (50:01):
Now, as a man, do you feel that you're qualified
a comment on the new laguer.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Well, you know what I tell you.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
I played with and that speaks a lot too. Who
you are.

Speaker 8 (50:12):
One of the biggest problems with celebrities. It's all right
to say I was wrong. You know, we got all
these foods who are famous, who got all these people
around them. Well, let's put out a statement. No, man,
just say you're sorry, Just say just say, just say, hey,
you know what, I was wrong.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
It's my fault. And because I tell people I said.

Speaker 8 (50:35):
The public will forgive you. Now, the media, they gotta
jump on you when you screw up. That's part of
the gear I tell people like ye, man, if these
people would just say I was wrong, I was or
I'm sorry, it would go away a lot quicker, and
then let's keep it nuver it's over. Yeah, there's so
many celebrities, and I watch it all the time. Yo, man,

(50:58):
just say I was wrong or I'm don't try to
massage it. Don't try to have somebody speak for you
as No, man, get on camera and say I was wrong.
Get on camera, don't put it in a tweet, don't
sit out a statement. Let people look at you and say,
you know what, he looks like he feels bad about that,
and then then that's all you can do.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Now you're on the other side, right, and you're so
famous to a whole generation for just being one of
the great broadcasters of all time and being part of
the single greatest sports studio show ever. And I'm just
wondering your perspective on being able to have this second
iteration of your life and your career.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
You know, number one has been a blessing.

Speaker 8 (51:47):
I don't want to give the shout out to the
great dig Eversong, who's the first person who mentioned television
to me.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
He's always been a great friend and a great mentor.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Put me on TV too, on NBC. You know, I mean,
it's just unbelievable.

Speaker 8 (51:59):
Yes, so he he He said, hey, meet me for drinks.
I said, sure, we're at the same hotel. He said,
when you think about television, I said, well, I haven't
thought about anything. I said, I know it's coming to
an end. Blah blah blah. He says, I think you'll
be great on television. I said, well, thank you. He says, now,
you're always gonna be in trouble. I said, well, what
does that mean? He said, if you're honest on television,

(52:21):
it's a double ed sord. People say they want you
to be honest, They only want you to be honest
if they agree with you. Fans want one thing. Tell
me my favorite team is gonna be good, and tell
me my favorite player is going to be great. That's
all fans really want. If you say anything different, they
hate you. So you're gonna You're gonna be great at it,
but you're gonna be in trouble. My career is winding down.

(52:42):
I say, hey, I'm gonna come.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Let's do this.

Speaker 8 (52:45):
I told this story at the Hall of Fame when
Dick went in last year. I got a kind of
a verbal I have a verbal commitment to go to NBC.
Remember yeah, And Michael Jackson says, hey, I need a favor.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
What you need.

Speaker 8 (53:00):
I need you to meet with these guys at T
and T. It to make me look good, to get
you in the in the building. I said, well, you know,
I'm kind of going to NBC. I know, but do
me a favor.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Just meet with T and T.

Speaker 8 (53:12):
Just it helped me out, I said. He said, he's
a good brother. I say, yeah, of course, dude, I
do it. So I come down to Atlanta. I meet
with T and T and they say, well, what's your goal?
I said, well, I want to talk about basketball, but
social issues mean a great deal to me. I want
to be very selective on the social issues that I
talk about. I said, because people don't want that all
the time. They want they use for US as a

(53:34):
getaway and they're like, well, you know, you probably got
a better chance of doing it us at NBC because
we're going to be on all night. You know, they
gonna put you on the top halftime, then you're gonna
be gone. And we keep talking and we spent about
five hours together talking about things that is important. I said,
you know, you know one of the reasons I made
the road Model commercial, I says, I think too many

(53:56):
black kids think they can only be successful through athletics
entertain They're like, well, what do you mean. I said, Well,
the reason I made the commercial. You know, we have
way too many segregated schools in this country. And I said,
when I go speak at these white schools, they're like,
I said, what do you want to do? And they say,
want to be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, you know,
a doctor, lawyer, engineer, fireman, teacher, policeman, things like that.

(54:19):
I said, Wow, that's awesome. Then when I would go
to the predominant black school, I said, what do y'all
want to do? I want to play in the NBA.
I want to play in the NFL. I was like, like,
ninety ninety five percent of the kids. So I kind
of took like a survey in my brain for like
three or four years, and I said, man, I think
these black kids are brainwash. They think the only way
they can be successful to athletics and entertainment. And so

(54:40):
I called Nike and I said, hey, I got an idea.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
That was your idea.

Speaker 8 (54:45):
Yeah, And you know what they said to me, charge
you nuts? Yeah, I said, I said, said, you're going
to get killed trying to make that commercial. The public negativity.
They're going to be saying, you're trying to skirtch you
issue as a role model. Dude, I'm not trying to
discurte the issue. What I'm trying to do with all
my conversations, Hannah, anytime I talk about socials, I just

(55:08):
want to get the conversation out there and get to
get the conversation started.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
Make people think that's it. Just think or start the dialogue.

Speaker 8 (55:16):
Yes, And to Nike's credit, we made the commercial and
they came to back to me later and says, hey,
you know, in fairness, ninety percent of our letters have
been positive. What you're trying to say? I said, Hey,
I was just trying to start a conversation because I
want these young black kids. No, they can be doctors,
they can be lawyers, they can be engineers. They ain't
gonna be Michael Jordan. Yo, They're not gonna be pat

(55:37):
my home. They're gonna have to get a real job.
And to this day, that's probably the most thing I'm
proud of, that that I get got to start to
start at the role model debate. And so I meet
with TNT. They dropped me off about two somes in
the morning. I called my agent. I said, yo, man,
I might have a problem. I think I want to
sign with T and T. So I get in bed,

(56:00):
I can't sleep at all.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
I called him.

Speaker 8 (56:02):
I called him back about six in the morning. I said, hey,
I'm ost change my mind and go to TNT. He said, well,
I'll call Episode. I said, no, let me be man,
let me man up and do it myself. So I
waited a couple of hours. I didn't want to call
him to earlier. I said, hey, mister Episode, I need
to talk to you.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
What's up? Uh?

Speaker 8 (56:22):
And I was heartbroken because he's the guy, He's the
guy who talked me into television. I said, I really
want to tell you this. I don't know how to
say it. He said, y'all just say it. I said,
I really think I should sign with TNT. He says, okay,
tell me what I said. Well, I think they're going
to give me more time to talk about social issues

(56:44):
and things like that. You know, I looked at a
couple of your shows, and you know, y'all don't really
have a segment where we can do things like that,
and blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Yeah, they were quick. I hosted those shows right. It
was like a couple of basketball points. Get in, get out,
You're done.

Speaker 8 (57:02):
And I said, He said, I totally understand that. And
I told his story when he got in the Hall
of Fame last year because I'm introduced him. He said, Charles,
you's gonna be great on television. Those guys are Turner
are awesome. I'm here if you ever need me. And
I hung up the phone and I was emotional wreck.
But the way he handled that when he said that,

(57:23):
he said, Hey, Chuck, You're gonna be great on television.
Those guys that Turner are awesome. If you need any advice,
called me, and I teared up. When I told that
story at the Hall of Fame last year, and he
means a lot to me. He's always been great. I
just saw him last year, came in the studio and
hung out the all night. But he means a great

(57:43):
deal to me, and I owe him a lot of
my success me too.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
He gave me a shot, put me on a No
woman had ever done the kinds of things I was doing,
you know, hosting the NBA on NBC. I mean, you know,
changed my life. But you know, the same guy who
paid first plane ticket and got on the plane and
flew to Portland as the same guy that went into

(58:07):
T and T and thought, Okay, I'll just listen. Those
ways of thinking, being open minded, thinking out of the box.
I think it has served you so well.

Speaker 8 (58:18):
Well, you know, it's interesting you say that because when
I was at the peak of my game, there was
no women, and that's only one black guy in ninety
nine percent of the city. And I'd be like, David Pree,
what's your question. They're like, well, David's in the back.
I said, yeah, I asked him a question. I want
to know, or I leave boys and Jackie McMullen, Jackie

(58:40):
always Jacket and Boston. Yeah, Jackie, who's a living legend,
so I appreciate your compliment because you know, this thing
has changed so much, and I'm so proud. You know,
we got doors now, you know, doors that have a
fantastic job. You know, I think it's great for the game.

(59:00):
You know, I'm looking forward to the time when there's
a woman. We got women referees now, which is awesome.
I'm looking for the time, to be honest with you, Hannah,
when we're gonna have a woman coaching in the NBA,
like as a head coach, you know, and it should
happen like that. The one thing I love about sports

(59:21):
the most growing up in Alabama, obviously there's always been
a racial tension going back to the church bombing in
nineteen shixty three, what's the year I was born. But
the one thing that I've always loved about sports man
it really bring the racists together. I wish that more
white people would treat Black America like they treat famous

(59:44):
black jobs. It would really help to make the world
a better place. And then that's the thing I love
about sports the most. When I played with a white
guy or a Jewish guy, I don't even care. Man
were just trying to win. And I wish people would
use sports more in that vein in their everyday life.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
But you're using your platform, uh to continue to inspire people.
And I admire you so much, and I I appreciate
your friendship so much. It's just always it's been a
great blessing. You text me and Jay all the.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Time, all the time. I love it. And Jay is
such a You.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Watch a lot of television.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
I think that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
Do you text me a lot when we're doing sports?

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Ows? I love you, I love watching sports. But that's
super fact.

Speaker 8 (01:00:37):
I earlier man, it's it should be a safe place, yes,
because it's not reality.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
It's not it should be a safe space.