1994 - Knicks vs Rockets (Part 1)

Hosted by 7-time champion Robert Horry and Jabari Davis, NBA Finals File dives deep into the greatest Finals series in NBA history, breaking down the best moments, storylines and matchups, using rare archival audio from the NBA, and the personal touch that only "Big Shot Bob" can give. 

In this episode of NBA Finals File, we examine the 1994 Finals, Knicks vs Rockets. Hakeem Olajuwon and Patrick Ewing, two to the greatest centers in NBA history go head-to-head for 7 epic games. Rob breaks down each game from a firsthand perspective, including playing through a broken bone, how the team reacted to watching the OJ chase at halftime of Game 5, and why he never touched the trophy after winning the title. 

NBA Finals File is available on the iHeart app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. NBA Finals File is a production of iHeartMedia and the NBA.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the NBA Finals filled with Robert Orri and
Jabari Davis. I am Jabari Davis once again, and you know,
for the listeners, my background is basically, I'm an NBA fanatic.
I was fortunate enough to cover the league for a
few years, you know, for USA Today, Basketball Insiders, Hoop Magazine,
and a couple of other places. And I'm joined by
my dream co host. Let's just be real about it.

(00:24):
First time the charts dream co host man, Thank you
very much, and I'm Robert or the seven time NBA
champ also known as Big Chap Bob. I'm just happy

(00:47):
to be here again with Jafari breaking down the NBA
Finals doing what we do in analyzing. Oh the great
NBA matchups in the NBA Finals far funk like James
Bron James with the rejection. Yeah. And this week's matchup
is finals between Rob's Houston Rockets with a Keem the

(01:08):
Dream alij Juan and the New York Knicks future of
one of the best centers in NBA history, Patrick Ewey.
This matchup was great, man. You think when you think
about the NBA and you think about the glory years
back in the nineties, the eighties the seventies, they had
great big men, Patrick Ewing, Hakima Lajah, two of the
best big men never played this game Hall of Fame
is going to head to head trying to battle for

(01:31):
the first NBA championship. Not since nineteen sixty nine, when
Russell and Chamberlain concluded their epic struggles has the matchup
at center been so much at the heart of an
NBA finale. You have two dominant centers, we've married each

(01:52):
other in a lot of ways. Then both of us
want to dominate each other. Elijah want head fake, put
up the shot block by you. It alright, So let's
talk about the historical significance of this matchup. This was
a keems second trip to the finals after losing four
to the Bird Celtics in nineteen eight six from You

(02:12):
Inside of Things. It was his first finals appearance, but
it was also a rematch of the four n c
A Championship game where You and Joya's beat Hakim's University
of Houston. Another incident, in fact was Schem was the
first ever non American born m VP winner that year
in the regular season Hot Team, I'm here representing millions
and millions of basketball fans around the world to tell

(02:35):
you that you've had a spectacular NBA career. You've led
your team to its best season ever. You're a certain
Hall of Famer, and you do it with an elegance
and a grace that spectacular congratulations on being the four
NBA Most Valuable Player. As you know, basketball, it's a sports.

(03:02):
I'd like to extend my gratitude to my teammates with
that Comet Bushes king this up. Thank you very much
on my conscious thank you very much. And he also
winds up ultimately being the first ever non American born
Finals when m VP winner for your Rockets, there's actually,
you know, normally we're breaking down how the you know,

(03:22):
how the season went or the leading Can you give
us a little breakdown of how the season went for
you guys leading up to the postseason. We came into
this season hungry, and we started this season of great
start here Rockets going to our racket of fifteen at
all and they done an impressive fashion as one of

(03:42):
the great wins in Houston Rocket history. And thinking about
on that fift win and everybody was talking about the matchup.
This is a preview to the finals. We win in
the Madison Garden. Um beat the Knicks on their home
floard to go fifteen and o and then later on
we had one of the best records in basketball. But
it was a great season for us. We were one
of those teams that didn't have that many injuries. I

(04:03):
think we only had three guys and missed two or
two and more games. So it was a historical season
for the East of Rockets. Yeah. I mean, in the
previous year you lost to the Sonics, and to your credit,
to your credit, you finished this season first in the
Midwest and then so your path to the finals. You
were three one against the Blazers in the in the
opening round you beat the Suns for three. But specifically,
I want to make this note. You were actually down

(04:26):
o two in that series before rallying back the Rockets.
We're backs to the wall. That is an understatement going
into that dam. I'm like gonna watched the arena and
finished down zero two. Can you give us a little
bit about that series. Yeah, it was weird because during
that series, Um, we were all waiting on to see
what happened to the Sonics. The Signs were like a nemesis.
They were the number one team in the West and

(04:47):
they lost, and everybody expected us to come out of
the West. So next thing you know, we're played the
Phoenix Suns and we went down two. Lost the second
game on Mother's Day, all the fans walked out of
the buildings, so we had to go on the road,
and then we won two in a row. Joan Swiggings
are around. Here's Max out the three and Harry comes

(05:07):
Vernon Maxwell. That's a three for Vernon Maxwell. Who's eating
up here? Well it might be Vernon Maxwell's night to
step on. Next thing, you know, Clutched City was born there.
It is there. It is shot clock. A long funny
how they are shut up ready? I think Houston fash cows.

(05:33):
We'll do it all right. Hen Stet Rockets on their
way for the Luster conference finals. So then you end
up beating the Jazz for one in the in the
conference finals. So from the next side of things, they lost,
you know, the previous year they lost in the conference finals.
For the Bulls, they finished fifty seven and twenty five
or first in the Atlantic. For their path, they beat

(05:53):
the Nets three one in the opening round for three
against the Bulls. That was that series with pipping and
without Jordan's and then four three against Reggie Miller's Pacers.
Let's talk about the coaching matchup. This is always going
to be fun for me, particularly because you actively played
for the guy. Pat Riley versus Rudy Tom Jonavan, pat
Riley versus Rudy t. You know pat Riley, We all

(06:14):
know who he is from the Showtimes Lakers making Magic
who he was keeping Kareem alive in the game. So
he had moved on to the New York Knicks and
they were about a ground and pound team. There was
one of the biggest teams in the NBA because you
look at the lineup, it's just muscle across their their
their their front court and even in their backcourt. You
know it Starks and and and he was one of

(06:36):
those guys that was a greedy, grind guy, but it
was It was a ground and pound series, and this
series changed a lot of rules going forth in the NBA.
You know, it's interesting that you mentioned that, are you
Are you referring to the hand check rule in particular. Yes,
Derek Harper was a master at the hand check. And
if you watched this series, it wasn't a lot of
scorn because Derek Harper and Starks were one of those

(06:58):
guys that hand checked a lot, and I think the
NBA looked at that and say, it is slowing the
game down because there were so many times during the
game there were little fouls called for hand checking. So
they eventually got rid of hand checking, and we all
say it was due to this series, because of Derek Harper. Yeah,
I gotta be honest with you. Throughout the series, I
was wondering, man, what they let them do that for me?

(07:20):
I mean, I watched the series in real time, but
it's been so we're so far removed from a league
where guards were able to be as physical as as
as those particular guards were that I had just forgotten,
you know. In the NBA kind of wanted to speed
the game up because it was a low scoring series. Um,
and then they changed rule up illegal defense and so
many other little intricacies of the game that was changed

(07:43):
because not just because this series, just because the NBA said,
this game is fun, this game is fast, this game
is one of those games gotta be up and down.
And we take these aspects out of the game, the
game move a little bit smoother, and you know what
to be honest with you, while you know old heads,
may you prefer the old out. I won't lie. I
do like a little bit more fluidity in the game. Now.

(08:04):
Don't get me wrong. This series was fantastic and to
that point, I actually it's it's funny because it was
a grit and grind series. But I actually I was
gonna ask you later. I'll ask you now. Did you
at the time did you recognize compared to now the
Knicks actually we're still trying to get out and do
a little bit of the showtime break on you guys. Yes,
they still have athletic bigs. Oakley m Charles Smith and

(08:28):
and those guys would get out on the wing and run.
Because people always look at guys and say, okay, he's
six eggs six times, he's two fifties to sixty. He
cannot run. But the NBA is full of athletic guys
who can do this, that can get up and down
the court, who could fill a lane, and when they
had the opportunity, they got out on the break. And
think about Patrick Joe is probably one of the fastest
bigs ever played. This game. As funny as it is,

(08:50):
it is not just a new phenomenon, even though we
try to pretend to it. They have been able to
do more, you know, more than just be you know,
back to the basket guys for you know, quite some time,
and this series wasn't remind of that. Let's take a
quick break before we dive into the series. It's the
league's two best defenses with two of the best big
men of their era slugging it out for seven games.
This is this campionship game, so you have more just

(09:10):
you know, managing this protract. So he's an opportunity to
bring something unique for the city. As Kobe would say,
it's time to put your big boy pants on for this.
All right, we're back here on the NBA Finals following
rob Let's go ahead and get into Game one. You know,

(09:31):
it's funny, I um, ironically you know, labeled this delayed
launch in Houston. Look, it should be no surprise when
you're dealing with the top two defenses of that season.
The series began and ended as an absolute slug fest.
We got an early time out from Rudy t after
a five oh start from the Knicks. What's the message
in that huddle? Is it just a matter of okay, guys,
you know we we took a quick jab breathe or

(09:54):
you know, was there more to it? It was more
of the things that all right, we got that first
minute two minutes out of our system, settled down, engage,
and go back at that running system because a lot
of times the emotions, you get caught up in the
emotions and you try to be doing things out of
character because the drilling has you plan at a high
level and you need to find that equilibrium where you
come down and you know how to play the game.

(10:16):
So we kind of just got back into ourselves and say,
you know what, do what do what we do? Meaning
do what we got what got us here? Get the
ball to dreams, spread the floor and do things like
that that gets us back into our system, you know,
speaking of getting the ball to cheam and spreading the floor.
Shortly after the time out, you actually got the action going,
you know, with with a bit of a swinging hook
coming across the lane off of a team screen. All right,

(10:41):
there's a fuss of story that's five for often lost
it off as far the team still only at five
points over the first five minutes, so you know, two
ths to the Knicks for doing a good job of
your sort of mixing up the coverage and looks at
a la Juan saw early by throwing Oakley and you
or even a combination of players at them. Was there

(11:03):
any concern within your locker room over the rest versus
rust debate considering that you had a week between the
conference finals. In the start of the finals, yeah, we
were a little worried about that um because we had
that much time off, and we saw the series that
the Nicks were playing in that they were getting a
nice little rhythm even though it went four three or
four three in the previous two series, and we thought

(11:23):
that might wear them down. So at the end, he said,
if we just get out and try to break the
rust off and balance things out, it would be good.
But a little inside tipbit is we actually had training
camp again so we wouldn't be out of shape. So
Rudy t took us down to Galveston and we had
a training camp within the season for the finals because
he wanted us to get away from Houston, get away

(11:44):
from the hooplah. We went down there and we had
some great games. We had some great workouts between one another,
and that's what we want to do. We want to
immolate that, that simulate that, that that game type atmosphere.
So that's why I think we were not as rusty
from the time off as most would be. You know, honestly,
I had no idea of that. For whatever reason, I
didn't see, you know, any news of that anywhere. But

(12:05):
it does make sense because after the first few minutes
you guys, it was clear that you that you weren't
suffering from, you know, the rust factor. This place is
already hopping out. Ali Jah on inside, he's filing down
for my swall sat all the world. I think our

(12:27):
big play huge in this series, Oh this star car. However,
those guys are not planning for in a lot of
times in certain systems. And you look at Houston Rockets,
we was one of the best teams in the West,
only one all star achemo logic one al jawa Al

(12:49):
suthing fails wrong. So what everybody does. They try to
cut off the head of that steak, and every play
was ran for a large one. But we knew a
large one was a great passer and we could just
cut off him and find open areas of the floor.
But the thing about a large one. He was always
one that double team. He always wanted us to step
up in those big moments. So it was a great
time for us to understand how to play together in

(13:12):
the finals because you had a large one passing the ball,
you had oldest getting rebounds, you had cars getting rebounds,
and you need those others that we like to call
in this day and time, those others to step up big,
not just the team captains and the mega stars like
a Kimo la Jowe walk a fine shot fire And

(13:39):
speaking of the others. On the other end, Charles Opening
knockdown three relatively open jumpers in that first quarter opening
has the quick jopper. Yes, here's ol play shocks. I'm
wondering was that part of the scouting report, as in,
make guys like Oakley, make the others, you know, make
them beat you from the outside. Was it simply a

(14:00):
matter of a guy stepping into the opening to knocking
it down. If you look at that series, I was
mainly the guy to do a lot of the trapping,
and for me they had to. They wanted me to
trap get back and we had to leave someone open.
We didn't want to leave starts open. We did only
Derek Harper, So it was normally my guy that I
had to rotate back and try to contest. But unfortunately Oakley,

(14:22):
uh Smith and Mason, they were knocking down their jumpers
in this series. Mason head fake, one trouble, another head
fake lifting lamp. That's good. So it was it was
kind of rough on us, they really were, But honestly,
you know, you being in that position, it makes sense.
It's essentially them taking what the defense gives them. You know,
one way or another, somebody's gonna have an open look,

(14:43):
and it just so happened that they, you know, they
stepped up. So one of the first adjustments, or the
first adjustment that I did notice was it seemed like
you and and correct me if I'm wrong here, that
this is why it's great to have you particularly like
on this show. But it seemed like you guys went
specifically to more side action with the team with the
court spread around him to kind of counteract what the
Knicks were doing. They were fronting him a lot of

(15:04):
that series. I noticed, Yeah, I'm checking your plays one
on one for the skill and before well, if you
make a mistake and there, it's gonna be very deep.
But cultural recover. And as I said, the next quick
like the front, I was WoT about her who was guarding?
Can you speak to like a bit of the game
within the game when he comes with those types of

(15:25):
specific adjustments. You know, a lot of teams would scalp.
And the only team that really had great success on
us defensive was to see how the superside and he
used to front Hakim a lot, and so, hey, what
do you do? You emulate people when they have success, right,
And so they started front and Dream and we had
a difficult time throwing the ball over top. So we

(15:46):
tried to clear out that backside because back then you
had illegal defense where you had if you were above
the three point line, the other guy had to be
above the free throw line. So we had the whole
backside open for over the top for Dream, and a
lot of time we try to get the guy, whoever
the powerful was to run back door for Dream was
sealed and go down the gut for a leaup. But

(16:06):
if you look at the way the Nicks played defense,
they were tall, they were long, and they were athletic.
So it made that past difficult and it made it
hard on Dream to get the good shots that he
normally get. Charles Hopfley is guarding a La Joan, or
at least he was before he spun away and got
that open shot. So it looks like the NIXT strategy
is to mix it up, get them different looks. He
takes so many jump shots and in that scouting take

(16:29):
sixteen jump shots to every inside. That's amazing. So basically,
what you're telling me is the league has been a
copycat league forever. It's not just it's not just now. No,
you have things that you cover, things of success. You
might not be able to do them as well as
other teams, but at least you try to try to
do it. I guess that makes sense. I guess that
makes sense. So keeping it going. You know, as we mentioned,
this game really was the epitome of a gritten grind game.

(16:51):
You know, both teams they were able to keep it
within five or six points around much of it. But
I specifically want to point out a couple of game
deciding plays down the stretch. Someone might look at the
box score and look, I'm gonna be honest with you,
you know, Rob, I've been guilty of this before, especially
if it's a game that I didn't watch, or it's
like it's a game from the past, you know, box
score hunting. But some people might look at the box
score and see that Kenney Smith only had a total

(17:13):
the three points and five assists, and they might scoff
at that level of production. But with about a minute
and change left, his presser in defense on Derek Harper
helped force a turnover on one end. Then he comes
down on the other end, works to pick and roll
with the team to get past Harper and into the lane.
Here's to the players, Chard's got the proud guard are
pots while waving their hair. Pass well and he'll stop

(17:38):
ball after me and I'm starts harkhop out of chain
miscommunication on this pass as the practure from Kenny Smith
had a lot to do with it, and also as
well how they starts coming out to the way street
before Nys start looking fors like for all this football,

(18:09):
he draws the defense and dumps it off the oldis
Thorpe was just waiting for it in the dunker spot
and it pretty much sealed the deal. Honestly, it's just
to me, it's just another example of like as we've
been mentioning throughout this show, and in some in some
of the previous episodes, it's an example of the others
making big time plays when it was winning time. And
I point that out because it felt like this, like
that's what this series was really going to be known for. Yeah,

(18:29):
we know Kimologoe was gonna do work. We know Patrick
jan was gonna do work. Those two are given and
they kind of neutralizes it. But it's up to guys
like Kenneth Smith, Vernon Max, with Derrick Carpett, John Starks,
all the other guys to get it going. And Kenney
Smith hounded in this okay, and that got to himself
to be modest with us here. This is yourself putting

(18:49):
around Robert or puts it up. I'm trying to get
a guards because this series is a is a grinded series,
and our guards talked about in the negative light because
they were looked like they were getting outplayed by the
Knicks guard. So, um, if you look at the way
Kenny Smith was, he he never lost his cool. Sam
Caselle came off the bench and took a lot of

(19:10):
his minutes, but Kenny was that guy who was always
there because things. But he's from New York who wants
to beat New York worse than him and Mario Elie,
the two guys from New York. You know honestly that
that that's an aspect of it that I didn't I
didn't know, but that's a fantastic aspect. I always wonder like, well,
what that must feel like whether you're from New York
or from l A or from any you know, NBA City,
have any opportunity, whether you're on that team or facing

(19:32):
that team, to play in front of your what are
literally your hometown fans. I can't even imagine what that
feels like. It's a lot of pressure. I you know,
just doing a little flashback for me. Even though there's
no professional team in Alabama, but I had a lot
of family in Atlanta that would come in from Alabama
South Kant. Those games were always felt more pressure because

(19:52):
you had to perform in front of your family. You
want them to prove. You want to prove to your
family how good you were and that you've made it.
And I know Kenny was that trying to prove to
everyone that he could play in this league. He wanted
to be, you know, the guy from New York that
was one of the number one players in New York
went to North Carolina, even with Mario Hill, the guy
who was grinding it out, you know, through the hard way,
and I think he got drafted the ninth round, you know,

(20:14):
from a small college and he made it, you know.
And it's it's about going out improving to your hometown
crowd that you know what it ain't about just dream
oldis Vernon, Robert, It's it's we the New York kids.
We're here to play and well show you what we
can do. And honestly, over the course of that series,
I believe that they didn't. So your Rockets wind up
winning the game eight Keen puts up and ten while

(20:42):
you and was ten for twenty six for the game
got start. That's working in around. Here's your all three?
How fining? And I actually I noticed this for a
four for twenty as well as a five for team
night versus allowed on one. In the regular season, Rob,

(21:03):
you played alongside and against some of the greatest talents
of all time. Its achem, the greatest defender the game
has ever seen. I think he's one of the greatest
defenders at the center spot. Um, if you watch the
way he played, he could move his feet, he could
use his hands because he got a lot of picks.
He got a lot of his hands on the ball,
and a lot of stills not essential, and he's always
there the block shots. He was Defensive player of the

(21:24):
Year that year. So there's a lot of things that
he could do that no other Sinners could do. In
a matter of fact, some small force power forward. He
was so athletic and his footwork was amazing. And to
go back to this game, we talked about a grand game.
You see how many points were scored in the second half,
but both teams. It was thirty two points by the

(21:45):
Knicks in the second half and then thirty one points
by the Rockets in the second Think about that. That's
a low scoring. The fact that shows you how much
defense was talked about it and predicated in these games
because those teams and those centers were just one granted
out and play tough basketball. That's absolutely crazy, honestly, Like
to put it in perspective like that, those are quarters now.

(22:07):
Those are quarters in some games now even Yeah, and
that's what it reads is for the rule change, because
you don't want to see that in best but it's
kind of slow. You want the fast space because there's
so many guys that are athletic, can score. You want
to see the beauty of basketball. Pressure still on us,
gotta get this game is the biggest game of the

(22:27):
year right now, coming up. We get to and we
get three chances to steal and we'll keep the home
cart advantage. It's big, it's begging her. Mind's gotta be right,
get your rest, get your mind's right. Let's all right.
Let's go ahead and get in the game too, because
it looked like the Knicks were very clearly trying to

(22:47):
establish union the post. Once again, the passes were crisper,
The execution of both teams definitely look better at the
start of this one compared to the first game. Yes,
Nick Bards continued to ignite him. You ain't Dan Lowis
double team cross court pass these hopefully underneath the smith
of the jam. So this series really made me, and
we mentioned this in the opener, but this series really

(23:08):
did make me appreciate Derek Harper as a player. Rob
can you give a little bit of insight, a bit
further insight into his skill set and maybe give the
listeners an idea of what type of player he was
I had the pleasure of playing one season with Derek
Harper with the Los Angeles Lakers, and this guy was
all about defense. I Q for the game. It's incredible.
He knew that, he knew how to position himself defensive,

(23:29):
set you up, sort of give you a little path
with the basketball, and the next thingy know, he's sneaking
in there with his hands or getting embody. And I
think defensively, he was one of the greatest defensive players.
To God, we don't talk about and we always talk about,
like you know, Alvin Robinson, Gary Payton, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant.
But Derek Harper was a grinded out, tough guy and
a lot of people probably remember from his days with

(23:50):
the Dallas Mavericks where he was d man on that team,
and so he carried that over to the Nicks. Think
about the Knicks that season wanted to be a tough, greedy,
grinding team, you know, the whole New York thing, and
he brought that. He was a perfect matchup, the perfect
addition for the Knicks because he is that type of
guy who comes out hard nose, can pick you up
full court at every moment of the game. Rob. It

(24:13):
felt like the Knicks were doing a good job of
finding you in and space to operate. In fact, I
saw them reposting, particularly you know, kicking it back to
him through you know, at times throughout this game on
the defensive end, he actually blocks a keen turnaround, and
I want to highlight that because I'll be honest with you,
I don't remember seeing that all too often. Maxwell puts
up the shot block. Look, everybody gets blocked, so it's

(24:35):
not one of those where I'm saying like, oh my goodness,
a keen, but particularly the turnaround on the baseline, I
didn't see that getting blocked too often. You know, Dreams
turn around on the baseline was patent and moved. It's
almost like Dirk's turnaround. I think Dirk kind of stole
some of that from Dream and then they're really unblocked
with shot the Scott hook from cream A dul Jabar. Yeah,

(24:56):
it's a couple of shots like that you cannot block.
And when Dream would do his move, that'll show you
what scouting does. I think Patrick Young, great player, great shot,
Scott a Dream enough played against him enough to understand, Okay,
I saw a little tendency that he's gonna do, and
he's able to give them block that shot. And if
you watched how they tried to play Dream in that
second half, they try to irritate and they try to

(25:17):
beat him up. They try to double team to get
the ball out of his hand. So they try to
really make him work, because Dream was gonna work on
both ends of the floor. But to block that shot
like Patrick youin did was incredible, It really was. And
you and actually winds up blocking six shots over the
course of the game on his way to setting what
was a series record at the time. You ain't stopping
out off to the right along shore, you must playing

(25:43):
wetrecting just three. Yes. Judging by the way that he's discussed,
like say on social media or even just in general

(26:03):
basketball conversation, honestly, Rob, it feels like Euen has somehow
become somehow underrated. When discussing the game's great centers over
the over the last forty years, I wouldn't say underrated.
I would say, you know what I would say, under
it and forgotten. Maybe underappreciated is that underappreciate It might
be the perfect word, because coming out of a Georgetown
Patrick was the man uh. He was one of these

(26:25):
centers that you feared. Number one pick in the draft
went to the perfect spot for him, New York. And
he is a sinner that could do anything. He can
step out and hit the threes, he can hit jumper jumpers.
It's so weird that we always compare players in this
day and age, and we talk about Joey um and
b how we compare him to a shack, compare him

(26:46):
to uh dream. But if you really look think about it,
he has a little Patrick you and him also. So
Patrick jun was one of the great bigs who could
do a little bit everything. And let's not talking about
his turnaround jumper. His turnaround jumper was almost the sweetiest dreams.
And that was actually something that I noticed as well. Honestly,
Big Good too great shooting Big Man's galore all throughout
the series, like really all throughout the roster on both sides.

(27:08):
You guys, you guys get all stroke. I think a
lot of the big these bigs, they didn't shoot threes
because they had all the other guys to do that.
They know they could ground and pound on an inside
and make it easier for the guys on the outside.
And that's kind of what Joe and Beat does in
this day and the era, but this has done a
lot more in this there because Biggs was just you
know what, I'm gonna get buckets and I'm gonna go

(27:30):
to the paint and punish you. Yeah, exactly. So your
rockets were able to keep the game competitive in the
second as guy started to kind of knock down some
of those threas that you mentioned. You hit one for play.
I think Sam can Sell hit one as well. Why
you want to play? And on that note, while he

(27:57):
was a rookie on this stage, can you let the
folks actually know how good Sam I Am was in
this league. Sam Cazell was a competitor coming out of
Florida State. You know, they had a really good team
down there with Charlotte waters Is, you know his backcourt partner. Um.
The thing would made Sam Cansel so good was his cockiness.
And it's a good thing because a lot of times
you see players all he's so cocky. To play in

(28:19):
this game, you gotta be a little bit cocky, and
that cocky leaves the confidence. And Sam was able to play,
come out and go up against Derek Carpet. He wasn't afraid.
Derek Harp was one of these guys who was revered
for his defense can come out and just you know,
hound you. But a rookie like Sam was like, he
don't scare me. And Sam came out and played his
game and stepped up to the play big time on

(28:39):
the biggest stage. Because think about rookies sometimes kind of
shy away from the moment. Not Sam cansell not one bit.
He like like they sometimes they say things like, you know,
the light was too bright for him, that there was
no such thing when it came to Sam Pazell. Plus,
I'm gonna be honest with you, the the throwback teenager
and me still loves and appreciates him for having one
of the greatest celebrations of all time. So the third

(29:02):
quarter was really the difference in this game, as it
kind of felt like the Knicks started to dictate the
pace of the action and they got and they they
also got hot you know from beyond the Yark. Starks
really gets it going in this game, as does Derek
Harper as we As we've mentioned, threat Point already pulls
up fifteen, and it felt like they kind of hit

(29:23):
you guys in waves as six you know six Knicks
scored in double figures, led by Starks with nineteen and
nine on six eleven shooting from the floor. Again mentioning
shooting in particular, because while the Knicks were a balanced attack,
they were definitely at their collective best when you had
someone else to roll with offensively. Yeah, let's talk about
the guards. The guards were great for New York Knicks.
There was seven for eleven and three, whereas the Houston

(29:44):
Rock as a whole was six for twenty two from
three and that's a that's a big difference in the game.
And not to mention the other mid range game. The
mid range game is the thing that's not talked about
a lot in this day, in this era, but Mason,
Oakley and Smith were able to knock down those mid
rang is jumpers when we were trying to trap and
get the ball out of Patrick's when we was rotating,

(30:04):
because that's key. If you can knock down mid range games,
mid range jumpers, that makes the defense a little skittish
ongoing the trap because nobody ever wants to amend to
score no without a doubt. And I'm gonna be honest
with you, Rob. That was also part of why I
love this series. You know, as I went back through
the footage, I'm a sucker for the mid range game. Like, look,
I appreciate three pointers, I love dunks, but you know,
you get someone operating out of the midpost with you know,

(30:26):
whether whether it's a you know, mid mid range turnarounds
or just just action out of the mid range. And
and you've got a fan in me. I'm a fan
of the mid range two. And if you go back
and watch this series, the Knicks bigs hit more mid
range than our bigs because our bigs, outside of myself,
we're going to the whole getting points in the paint.

(30:46):
And I think that was a key for a lot
of the Knicks success through the whole season. No, for sure.
So and they end up taking this three and stealing
home court before the series even headed back to New
York for three, we lost the home card Adva vnage.
So we're pushing in the deep into the corner. But uh,

(31:07):
maybe that's what this team needs. Rob. What is the
vibe of the team at this stage. Does the fact
that you know you swept them in the regular season
and obviously one in MSG along the way, does that
make a difference or is that it does that completely
out of the window because it's regular season versus postseason,
and you guys are actually, you know, considering this one. Well.
Confidence is a big thing throughout NBA UM And if

(31:28):
you look at us, when I talked about going on
that started season off winning fifteen games in a row,
and everybody tell me this was a prelude to the finals,
we already knew we could win in that building in
the hostile situation because that game, everybody wanted to be
the first team to beat us that year. And for
us to go in New York in Madison Square and
win that game, that that let us know that, hey,

(31:50):
it's possible. So we had no doubt in our mind
that if we go up in New York, we gotta
get to you know, we gotta get two games. We
gotta get one game. And that's our mindset. I know
this is cliche, take one game at a time, but
that's literally how you have to think about it, because
you only have to you have to focus on that
one No, without a doubt, you can't when you can't
win all three on that first night. So I completely understand,

(32:11):
completely understand. All right, let's say one more break. As
a series heads back to New York. We're tied at
one with your Rockets looking to try to steal home
court advantie back. All right, we're back here on NBA
Finals follow let's go ahead and jump in the game three.
Maxwell starts out hot. But this this game turns into

(32:31):
a battle of the bigs. The start of the game,
you know, it looked as though it might turn into
actually a blowout. Yes, yo, as you hit it three,
Then Matchwell found Thorpe for an open dunk, then got

(32:52):
into the paint and did some damage himself the next
time down. Then Maxwell hit a jump around the following possession,
and honestly, you guys are up eleven two and it
calls him nix and call an early time out. What
was the thought at that point? Did you think, okay,
now we're here, we're rolling or was it just a
matter of you know, you just got off to a
hot start. You want to come out aggressive, and when
teams go home for that first game at the being

(33:14):
on the road, they have a tendency to relax, and
our mindset was we cannot let this crowd get into
this game, so we have to be in attack. Mode.
It is really looking at this as a very very
big game. They feel if New York gets some momentum,
especially with his home crowd, that New York may be
on a train that's impossible to stay. And if you
watched that game, Vernon was an attack mode. I was

(33:36):
an attack mode, and we tried to take the crowd
out of it. All right, that's just well, talk about
start for the back went up the Runner and Star
because we knew that they were gonna be double team
and Dream. If we had the ability to get to
the paint school, we had the ability to knockdown shots.
It was going to open it up for Dream to
be an attack mode. So Rob, let's talk about the

(33:58):
forty eight second mark of the first I'm gonna be
honest with you, I've forgotten how lively of a body
young big shot Bob had. I had forgotten. I forgotten
you had that in your in your bag. But so
you know, for the for the listeners, you can you
catch the ball up top, You're able to spin off
of ocali uh and you had a really nice driving dune.

(34:19):
The stop lord are what they have, enthusiastic celebration, faster
chap points and you know, I guess I just remembered
you as you know, the guy that was, you know,
locking people up and shooting threes. And you know a
lot of people um didn't understand who I was when

(34:40):
I first came in the league because I came into
the league coming out of college. I played center, even
though it was small for. I was supposed to be
a small for but due to circumstances beyond my control,
I had to play center. And that's when the reason
the Houston Rock has drafted me for my athleticism. And
in that game, if you look at that game, that's
probably the most ever ever in my life. Put the

(35:00):
ball on the floor. So I put the ball on
the floor like and and and and For me, it
was just about being aggressive. And I was always an
attack mode. I was always trying to get to the
basket because this this is the NBA Finals, is all
or nothing. And that game I was doing some things
that I look back, I was like, oh, Dan, I
put the ball on on the floor a little bit
more than I thought I did, and I was able

(35:21):
to get to the hole and dunk. Uh. Sam Caselle
and I was so close. He was laughing at me
because He said, dude, you know you just dunked the
ball off the wrong foot, right, I said, it's energy,
it's the motion. We gotta get it. No such thing
as a wrong foot if it goes in like that,
at least at least from the from the viewers side
of things. Oh, you knew from the Nick side of things.
They were never going to back down. They weren't laying

(35:42):
down for anybody. As student Lance, as the great student
Lance always says, it's a game of runs, and the
Knicks went to work. They mounted a comeback, you know,
behind a Starts drive and a Derek Harper three, then
a stealing a bucket from Harper as well. Not to
be left out, you ain't actually ended the half with
an absolutely incredible block on the team that was on
a league I'm not gonna allow to you. I'm not
being hyperbolic. It was honestly one of the best full

(36:03):
court outlets passes that I've seen from Otis Thorpe. But
then for you, I could not believe that you ain't
got back in the position to block that shot. The
final shot outs I want to say about half. You know,

(36:26):
if you look at us as we walk off the court,
and we were always like, did he get back? Did
he just block dream shot? It was a look of
dismay that he was able to do that. But you
have to give credit with credit too. Like we said earlier,
Patrick Huan is one of the best centers that played
this game that we forget about. He absolutely was, and
that cap the twelve three run by the Knicks to

(36:46):
bring them within seven and a half the second half
win in similar fashion. You know, both teams were able
to make small runs. It winded up being a two
point Rockets league with just under four minutes to play.
You're blowby on Oakley and you're on the wing. It
results in a dunk, reuning change, watch your right right
that stuffed up for a four part the laze and silence,

(37:08):
hopefully justice does God have the babble loop and to
stand with Robert Dory who can take it to the whole.
That's what he was doing in the first quarter. Very
nice dunk in that situations, but it puts the Rockets
up seventy seven. Ewing jumper from the wing off a
Derek Harper drive eventually puts the Knicks back up two
eighty one, giving them their first lead of the night

(37:30):
the frost time halfway to no one's surprise, you guys
try to find her. Came in the post on the
following possession, but they're doubling and tripling him on the
catch and it came actually finds a diving thorpe before
the end one haven't played any when you were watching
it back, do you like, do you remember it as

(37:51):
it was, like? Does it? Did? It put you back
in there? It pushed you back in the moment, and
it actually gives you anxiety because you're like you anticipate
in something it does that happened. You're like, oh man,
why did I do this? Why did I do that?
But it's it's it puts you, it takes you back.
It's it's almost like you can smell the guard and
you can smell everything that's going on. You can feel it.

(38:13):
And actually it made me even dream about it after
watching it. So but you know, you watched the way
Hakim used to find guys like Otis, and Otis used
to do that patent at one hand dunk and swing
on the rim, and that's one of the things that
he was so good at. You you said early about
him getting in that dunker spot the dunker spot is
the best spot in basketball for traditional forwards. And when

(38:35):
Otis got in that spot, you ain't gonna block his
dunk halftime. But noing behold Patrick, you ain't got to
a couple of times. But he was such a great dunker,
now he really was, He really was. So Stark ends
up finding you on on the baseline for another jumper
that put the Knicks up eight s eighty four with
one left. Then they run you off a curl in
the key for a dunk the very next time, down tied,

(39:04):
so everybody fell asleep in the lane. There as a
why you wanted everybody's stay, and actually made me realize
that I'll be honest with you, I think you, I
think you could have been utilized more throughout the city.
That was my I'm not just bandering, I'm being serious.
You know. For me, it was it was we was
saved that play for a need because we know we

(39:24):
had those bigs that when used to coming off curls,
and that was one of my little patent plays we
had while I come off that curl and I will
seal the guy enough to have that room to get
it and go up and dunk the ball, but we
didn't run it much. But I missed that play because
that was an easy two points. Because because you think
about it throughout the course of the game, you're really
gonna worry about the big dogs, like you know, we

(39:46):
can't let Dream get the ball, so we're gonna overplay this.
And it was you gotta It was a great coaching strategy.
So you gotta tip your hat to Rudy Tifa saying, Okay, well,
you know what, We're gonna go to the second year
player and we're gonna run this play for him because
he can score in the paint. Look, all I'm saying
is they had absolutely no favorable matchup for you. So look,
I'm not I'm not questioning that, you know, the great

(40:06):
rooted t I'm not questioned to anybody there. All I'm
saying is they could they I feel like they could
have utilized you a little bit more, and I'll just
leave I'll leave it at that. So Derek Harper's jumper
off a drive put the Knicks backup eight six right
around the fifty two second month. Derek Harper fine to

(40:27):
find excellent shoot against Watch, but then Kim finds a
wide open Casselle at the top of the key for
the go ahead three one, one out, there's sad car
salve cooling heads from down to town. Pick out the look.
It's a one partly look. In the very next play,

(40:51):
I can't lie, Yes, Patrick Ewan was guilty of moving.
It's part water five seconds sex ten of the four
and we gotta listle away from the pall Houston a
son a printing and offensive fowl on primly called on
the next it's on youin pim for killing called for

(41:11):
the foul, but basically it put them in a position,
put the Knicks in a position where they were forced
to intentionally foul. You know, Ricky Santas, he steps up
and casually, you know, like like you mentioned, he's not
afraid of the lights. He casually knocks down a pair,
putting the game away. That's the first and looks back
with a smile of teammate Robert ar Sam Cassell hitting

(41:32):
both and he's provided a freak point lead for the
Stern Rockets. Your Rockets were able to hold on and
get the win. Nine and the Rockets come away with
the victory. Came all, are you on contesting the shot
of Patrick hilling and you ain't hit on a file

(41:53):
that's a potential four point from markets come away with
the light three eight victory of a lead to get
you know, I'm getting you're gonna mention starts here. You
know he's six for sixteen, three for nine from you know,
from deep you know you gave him, you know, twenty
and nine. But you guys have officially stold home court. Yeah,
we we got home court back. And I think when

(42:14):
you look at through this this game, if it wasn't
for that first quarter where we came out hot eighteen
outscored him by eight points, it made a difference in
this game because we know, like you said earlier, it's
basketball is a game of runs. And when you're at
home and you have a home court advantage, meaning to
cry behind you, having the comfort zone of being home,

(42:36):
it makes a big difference. No, I was gonna say
it truly does, like I know, but yeah, at least
it appears to say I'm already tough. Janovitch had been
second guests for leaving you in in the fourth quarter
of game too. But given all the criticism that you
took after that game, how satisfying is it to score
your team's last seven points and win. Well, I'm still
young and I'm a learning things this whole season. Um.

(42:58):
Game two it was off site from me. Um, Like
I said, I'm young, I learned my teammates still has
a lot of confidence in me and Night and were
just start me just to get game two. We got
Game three and win Game three homecourt advantances. That favorite. Then. Now, Sam,
you guys have had a lot of trouble hanging on
the leads in the fourth quarter. What does it do
for your confidence to win it a tough fourth quarter

(43:18):
here in mass It makes you feel good. It makes
you feel good. We know that we're a great road team.
We want to famous and one on the road, win
Utah one in Portland. So now be ringing philosop. We
just gotta play out ball Houston Rockets basketball and win
ball games. All right, good effort, Sam, congratulations. Alright, So
let's go to Game four. The Knicks are once again
looking to even the series up. I have to mention this.

(43:41):
I couldn't find the footage on it, but do you
remember it's David Letterman interview. We're essentially David Letterman sets
a cheam up and you know that you're you're trying
to get them, you give you give the money quote,
but a keen cheam ends up answering insane. If we
get up three one, they will choke. Saving checking up
the other day when he appeared on the they have

(44:02):
a lot of shot the day before we got our
freak as the walk at will show five click bosch.
Obviously they're actually gonna use that. I don't think he's
got to quite Is there such a thing as bulletin
actual bulletin board material? Does that exist within locker rooms
at this level? Yes it does. And um, we had

(44:25):
no clue that Dream said this, because Dream is not
a guy to really go out and boast and brag
about things. And and I guarantee you if he had
to do it all over again, he wouldn't say that. Um,
but we didn't hear about it. After the game and
everybody was talking about it and we looked at Dream
he was like, I don't know, I just I just

(44:47):
stick with the tongue. But at the end of the day,
you still gotta get out and compete and performing. You
liked sometimes to have your back against the ball when
something like that happens, to see who you are as
a competitor, and to that point, you know, the game
started about as you expected to go. With the team
that's facing the chances of a three one deficit, even
the three one deficit at home, I really have to
probably run in the next two here in order to

(45:08):
have a little bit of a shot. Going back to
the final team. We're feeling pretty good about ourselves and
we shut we had a hell of a job, but
we can't let these guys get back into it, and
we don't want to go back home two and three,
like we'll just say, let's stet together, let's do this together.
But we did it all ye together, Let's do it now.

(45:28):
The Knicks got three offensive boards on the very first
possession and absolutely set the tone for how this one
was going to be fought. If you look at it
at this series, that's something that that that the Rockets
was doing. It was keeping a team that was bigger
and stronger off the boys. They're known for doing out
the season crashing the board, getting offensive boys, but we

(45:51):
were able to limit them on the offensive boys because
of the great box out by Oldis, myself and Dream
and our guards getting back to the elbows and getting
long rebounds. It also felt like the Knicks were looking
to push tempo whenever possible shot didn't start, suck up, next,

(46:13):
up next, sure flying here. So the thing about the
Knicks is they were trying to get out on the
break to try to wear us down because they knew
we want to go go too deep on the bench,
and everybody was playing a lot of mints and they
were a team that could go five deep. And Charles

(46:35):
Oakley was a master at this. He'll get the rebound
and throw the long past. Because what the guards would
do anytime my outshot shot was taken, they would contest
and what we call snowberg take off going down tell
the end. If they got the rebound, the outlet was long,
so they got a lot of fast break and cheap
buckets in that sense, especially guys like Anthony Mason. Anthony

(46:56):
Mason was one of the first bigs to come up
and be a so called point for we don't talk
about I know, you know. He was that guy could rebound,
he could shoot the little mid range, he could take
it out and guard anybody. So Anthony Mason was that
X factor footing Knicks on that team, as Carl Harrera
was our X factor. Speaking of Mason, the Knicks actually
switched Mason onto a cheam at the start of the

(47:17):
second quarter to start the second quarter. The next put
Mason on the Ron Patrick. You had played him the
whole first quarter in the last three times, but Key touches.
He caught and shot quickly rather than full around with
the basketball. In the broadcast even mentioned Mason's ability to
particularly root him out of the post or at least
off his preferred spot. Having played with the keeam, was

(47:39):
there a particular or a specific type of opposing big
that tended to give him more trouble than others? Um
from watching throughout my my career in plan with him,
there was only big stack could bos met with long
and athletic um. You look at guys like Sean kemp
Um he was the one guy that really gave him
problem because Seaun kemp could jump out of gym, he

(48:00):
could be athletic enough to front him, or didn't switch
back and get behind him. But the Knicks employed something
different where they try to get Anthony Mason too root dream,
but Dream got smart. He started facing up because everybody
thinks he's a back to the basket type of big
but he could also face up what he started doing
within this series. So the second half was a tale
of two stories, as your Rockets controlled the third quarter

(48:22):
while the Nicks ended up bouncing back a little bit
in the fourth. A couple of things that I noticed.
I noticed it get a little bit chippy between you
and Starts and the third hares start hopefully, oh, look
out some fun as Loriy Colin Starts try to shut

(48:43):
them back fall for his first well, Robert Loriy just
stands up very tall, and John Starks does a terrific
acting job. We've seen him do it many times this year.
Is he he initiated the hard contact and took the
hard fall to the floral smile. That's good hard playoff basketball.
And when you plan at a high level, and you

(49:04):
plan at this level, I mean the NBA Finals, you're
gonna try to be asggressive as possible. You're gonna try
to come across as you know, I don't want to
use this word, but I have to not. As you know,
you want to come out as no pump. So you've
got to do things to to let people know that, hey,
this ain't gonna be happy You're not gonna land on
top of me. It's not gonna be easy, it's not
gonna be solved. And that's just how Starks alway. But

(49:26):
because a lot of guys like that, they put that
in the missel. You know, I gotta be a tough guy.
I gotta do this. That's the way they're able to
succeed in his league. And it's not just Starks. If
you go out through the history of basketball, they're guys
like that unless they was friends here, probably hug or
do some of that nature. But like I say, in
the NBA Finals, there are no friends. It's all. It's
all big boy pants. I'm not mad at it. Okay,

(49:47):
I got your scratching. So the other thing that I
noticed that Maxwell was getting care on the sideline several
times for his hand. Was Maxwell playing with a broken
hand or a broken thumb on that in this series,
Maxwell went into the Oakley pick etan harder as he
has had some hand problems throughout these all of these playoffs,

(50:08):
Maxwell had had um surgery on his wrist and he
had jammed his thumb a couple of times. Because when
you come up those screens, you have to use your
hand to get space, to create space, and a lot
of times you hand your thumb and get caught in
a jersey. You can need to get it pulled too far,
you can get a jam. So Max was defensive stopper

(50:30):
on the wings and he was using his hands a lot,
and a couple of times it would get caught, I
get hit, and he was having issues with that. That's
one of the reasons he probably didn't shoot as well
as he normally would throughout the first couple of games.
And speaking of injuries, let's actually dive into a play
and I used you know, you know, no pun intended.
Let's dive into a play that took place just under
the fourth thirty mark where you're taking the ball out

(50:52):
along the sideline. Then it keem hits you, you know,
hits you curl into the rim for what would have
been another monster Dune. Sorry look out on he went
out hard. Robert are to the floor and just just

(51:15):
got off the Unfortunately, for your sake, Oakley and Mason
come flying at you, and I think it was Mason
that actually gets you across the face, sending you crashing
down to the court on your back. Understandably, you looked
a little bit ginger, But can you take me through that?
You like, what what's going through your mind as you

(51:35):
receive the past? And then obviously you're making your way
and those guys are bareling down and you what are
you thinking? It's what I plays where if Dream steps off,
I'm gonna cut baseline out of bounds play because if
people know basketball, the most dangerous guy is a guy
passing the ball. And I got to Dream, and Dream
is a great pass on his own right, and he

(51:56):
found me driving based on and throughout my career. You know,
when I go east going left, I'm taking off and
dunk and left handed. And as I went up because
I went in the left hand and Mason tried to
come across and block, it came across my head and
knocked me down to the ground. And I actually have
a picture of me because it's it's a bad picture,
but a cool picture if you look. My foot is

(52:18):
so close to kick in the rim, and so I
came crashing down and I put my hands down, which
is the wrong thing to do. But I sprained my
wrist in that moment, and and I had a hairline
fracture in my coxit that was not diagnosed until after
the season, because if I could go, I could go.
And when the season was over, I had X rays
because I was having problems in my backside. And I

(52:40):
was like, oh, you have a hairline fracture. That's amazing,
So you and I mean, I was gonna get to
it later on. You're not missing the rest of the game.
But you played the rest of that series with a
hairline fractor. That's just absolutely incredible to me. Look, you know,
I got up from that and and MS the first
freedom because I couldn't extend. If you watched, I couldn't
even get up because I was I was starting to
spas him, and then it went way and as soon
as I went to the other end and started trying

(53:02):
to move, it's spas them so bad that I had
had to file harp and and go to the locker room.
Looked understandably, even without the knowledge of you know that,
of there being a hairline fracture there, I won't lie
to you, Rob as as your co host. As I
was watching the footage, I and even though I had
already seen it, I was scared. I was like, oh,
my goodness, like that that was quite That was quite

(53:23):
the fault. I cringe every time I see it too, understandably, Understandably,
I wouldn't want. That's one of those that's one of
those reminders I definitely would not want. So at the
time of your injury, you guys are in the midst
of a fourteen to one run. I've checking the flight
away from the next from the fourteen one run. Here
on the third, the next shooting only four. I'm sixteen

(53:46):
from the floor. But honestly, and I'm not just saying it,
it really did feel like that was the swing, that
was the turning point, because you know, things swung back
in their favor. Start scores a you know, two quick buckets, uh,
Derek Harper adds a three and semi transition, and suddenly
they had a fifty six fifty league but just under
a minute to go in the third and that else.
That actually sounds crazy to say, fifty six fifty five

(54:07):
with just under a minute and the third, But that's
neither that's neither here nor there, Derek Harper. Actually it's
another one on the next possession. But your replacement, you know,
shout out to Matt Bullard. He gave you, guys, you know,
lead heading into the fourth. The thing about our defense
with me in the game, we all allowed to trap
sometimes in the half court. I'm the rover and Rudy

(54:27):
t gaming the responsibility if I saw something to go
trap it to get back because I was long enough
and athletic enough where I could rotate and push bigs
out to someone. Because we were a type of team
that we didn't trap much. But the Knicks we knew
wasn't a team that was athletic enough to drive past
us because they were a big team, a big Brawley team,

(54:49):
and for us to be there, but when I'm not
in the game, we don't do it because Matt Bullard
didn't have the speed and athletic settings to do what
I do. So it was one of the situations when
we were when we were coming back in that we
were using that at that time to get them in
a scramble situation to get him out of the offense.
And when I went out of the game, we had
to go back to playing regular defense. If you don't
have the horses, you can't run the race. I understand,

(55:11):
I definitely understand. So you know, you guys, you know
there was good action in this game throughout the fourth
but you know, I repeat, I feel like your absence
on the defensive endage as well as on the backboards
was noticeable. The Knicks really started punishing you guys, eventually
to the tune of fifty to thirty three by the
individul you want that's twenty eight points and the next

(55:37):
late Saturday, Saturday, Saturday four at that time to keep
waited for all of his teammates to clear that area
before he made his move on you, something the Rockets
were not doing in the first three days of this series.
All great changed fine and su you ain't priding? Have
you ain't found? It's a seventy seven seventy four Knicks
lead when you and goes in the line with just

(55:57):
under three minutes and forty five seconds left in the game,
or have a season seven eight six percent breath thrower shooter,
The writers right, odd, but a beautiful say what a
shay if I whole place a shocking free trawl by

(56:18):
you're like two scowling off the back of a rom
scars for play let's changed to to let's put off
the live for that's her arguing you actually misses both shots.
But Charles Oakley is there to not only chase down
the rebound in the corner, but he turns and finds

(56:39):
John Starks in rhythm for a three at the top
of the key. Can you talk to me about what
those types of you know, those types of I would
say missed opportunities mean to a team, especially a team
trying to come back. That's a big momentum changer, because,
first of all, Patrick Julian doesn't miss two free throws
in a row. He missed two, we were unable to
security rebound. Now Oakley, who was a hustle guy who

(57:00):
can do so many things for you, gets the rebound
and assist all the one playing throws into John Starks
was able to knock down the three and that was
one of its two threes, a hit for the game.
And when you hit threes like that as a player,
when you haven't been knocking down it's like a momentum.
It's like a momentum boost, not just for the team,
but for you throughout the series, throughout next games. Because

(57:21):
John Stark, we all know he's a fire cracker. He
can get hot and explode at any moment, and we
were trying to keep him at bay as much as
possible within this series, but unfortunately for your Rockets, it
wasn't quite enough because you know, Starks came up big
down the stretch and put the game out of reach
at the line. Ship start right, John Starks part leave

(57:47):
find shopper, Rockets fall for five off. The Knicks wind
up taking this call. Shot three Air Hall next time
of the series, till there will be a game five
of the Gardens on Friday night. If I had a
well be factor Hillston for a game number six on

(58:08):
Sundays as time has run out, av Rockers for next
deflete the Rockets mighty one eight two. Yeah, that's one
of those tough fourth quarters for us. That that bomen
We only scored twenty one points in a fourth quarter
when in our defense it's something we hung our hat on.
But we gave up thirty one and the Knicks were

(58:30):
able to take Game four. Derek gave pressure game for
you all, and you guys seem prepared to play tonight.
You know, we definitely did, I think more than anything
about our intention to defense, and it was really up
and whenever we're able to get a try defense or
all we're able to put together consist of basketball great
clutch shooting by you tonight. You seem to be shooting
those three's on rhythm, five three pointers to night. Well,
I really feel comfortable shooting the basketball. This team has

(58:51):
given us great shot opportunities, and I'm just stepping up
knocking the shots down. I'm real confident with what's going
on and still enjoying your I don't. I can't even
explain how much. Hi, good luck here and see you
on Friday. All Right, So we're tied up, and that's
where we're gonna go ahead and in part one of this,
but Part two is coming up, and things get very
interesting both on the court and off the court in
Game five plus story time with Robert Dory and the

(59:14):
Big Shot Bob Award all coming up in Part two.