April 18, 2022 • 47 mins
Hosted by Sarah Kustok, NBA Flashback is the podcast that takes you back to the best moments in NBA history through exclusive archival audio from the NBA vault, along with new interviews with the players and coaches who were in the building.
In this episode of NBA Flashback, we go back to May 13th, 2004 and relive Game 5 of the Western Conference Semifinals. When Derek Fisher beat the buzzer, and the Spurs with only 0.4 seconds left. We talk with Laker legend, 4-time NBA champion as a player, and 5-time champ as a coach and exec. Kurt Rambis about the intense rivalry with the Spurs, the incredible talent on the '04 Lakers, and of course the inside story on the improbable buzzer beater.
NBA Flashback is available on the iHeart app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. NBA Flashback is a production of iHeartMedia and the NBA.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
NBA Flashback is a production of I Heart Radio and
the NBA four texts remaning here they go. They get
it's a Fisher. He scores scoreszz It'll have to be reviewed.
(00:26):
They'll review it. They'll review it. Derek Fisher point four seconds.
Everyone knows about the crazy shot that won the game,
but there was a lot more to this dramatic series
between two historic NBA franchises. Game five of the two
(00:47):
thousand four Western Conference Semifinals was a pivotal battle that
went back and forth down the stretch with superstars hitting
amazing shots, and it wasn't decided until after the final
buzzer had sounded. On today's episode of NBA Flashback, we
go back to May thirteenth, two thousand four, the year
(01:08):
Usher had four different songs hit number one. We all
learned what a wardrobe malfunction was thanks to Justin Timberlake
and Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl, and everyone in
Oprah's audience was about to get a car. The Lakers
and the Spurs are meeting for the fourth year in
a row in the playoffs. Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich
(01:32):
are playing high level chess with Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan,
both at their peaks. This was truly a historic game.
We are honored to speak with Laker legend Kurt Rambis,
a four time NBA champion as a player with the Lakers,
He's won five more titles with the team as a
coach in front office member, currently the senior basketball advisor
(01:53):
for the Lakers. Kurt, we are so thrilled to have
you on here with us today. It's my pleasure, it's
pike pleasure. I'm glad to be talking to you. Well,
before we get back to this, this game five of
the two thousand four Western Conference Semifinals. Take us back
to two thousand four. That Lakers team with Kobe Shack,
Gary Payton, Carl Malone. It was one of the most
(02:14):
talented teams on paper and NBA history. What were the
expectations like throughout the course of that season, and the
way they always are for most Lakers seasons, is to
win the title, especially when you've got Kobe and Shock
Gun your ball club, and then you had Hall of
famers like Carl Malone and Garry Payton. We had high expectations.
(02:35):
It was a a season where we're trying to fit
in Carl and Gary who played, you know, their style
of ball, their brand of ball throughout their entire career,
and then trying to orient them into the triangle, which
sometimes worked well and sometimes it didn't work well. But
we thought we had a talented team, a deep team,
(02:58):
versatile team. Um So we gave ourselves a lot of
hope to start the season that we could eventually win
a title. Well. Fast forward May thirteenth of two thousand four,
and Spurs are the defending NBA champions. The series now
is tied two to two with Game five in San Antonio,
and welcome back to San Antonio. Al michael Is doc
(03:21):
Rivers Michelle Tafoya on this hot, humid, sticky nighted for
the night's Game five, starting up front for the Lakers,
Devin George, Karl Malone and Shaquille O'Neill coming up at
twenty eight point games. Turkolt was hot from a three
point landing Game four, Duncan and Nastovich in the backcourt.
Gary Payton called me Bryant for the Lakers, Tony Parker
(03:43):
and Bruce Bowen, who will be shadowing Bryant most of
the night for San Antonio, and let's check in with
Michelle Well Alvis Morning Spurs Shooter. I was all business.
The players told me they've noticed the difference. No choking
around just to say home lighted us about tonight's game
and the ward of the day for the first team
is aggressive, great, Papa has said before the game, because
(04:04):
they aggressive team almost always gets more calls and usually
gets to win. And al papacis also set the Spark
with play a better brand of defense tonight because quotes
Toby Blant's abilities in game one or Game four, rather
he trips all the defensive abilities and philosophies. Well for
the Spark to type it up tonight. Now, going into
(04:25):
the game, do you remember what the feeling was like
inside the team. I think we were very confident. They
won the first two, which is very disappointing, and I
think we made adjustments to try and handle Tony Parker
and Tim Duncan in a different fashion and make their
lives a little bit more difficult in the next two
ball games. So we ended up winning the next two,
(04:47):
so it's tied to two. So I think we're very
confident going into the ball game. Also realizing the significance
of the Game five and how important it is when
SERI are tied to two. So we were feeling good
about it. Yeah, in coming off of that game four
where Kobe Bryant had forty two points help leading your
(05:10):
Lakers to a win, I don't know that anybody could
have done anything with Bryant when he had forty two
and shackets one eight the other night there are you
look at it? I thought this a pretty good jough
Kobe Bryant. He just made some tyfficult shots in terms
of game planning and when it came to someone like
Kobe going against Bruce Bowen obviously a very tough Spurs defense.
(05:30):
Were there things you did in particular to get him
going or how did you strategize to really maximize all
the talents that we saw to him at that young age. Well,
Kobe was a very first little ball player, and within
the triangle, we could put him in different spots on
the floor, we could put him in isolations, pick and
roll post ups at the elbow that we could give
(05:54):
Bruce a lot of different looks when he was trying
to figure out how to defend him. And Kobe's versus
tility with his ability to shoot long shots, mid rain shots,
attack the basket, get to the free throw line. But
Bruce did an incredible job. He moves his feet very well.
He moved to speed. I don't know if he's moving
his speed well now, but back then and did a
(06:18):
great job of staying in front of Kobe and just
making every night very difficult for him. But I think
Kobe got tired too throughout the series. So Bruce just
haranguing him, um, every second that he was out there
on the floor, made it very difficult for Kobe despite
his success in that ball game. Yeah, evident when you
(06:40):
go back and watch some of these games, um And
speaking of somewhere and tear or tiredness. Early on in
the game, Al Michael's and Doc Rivers, they were discussing
Phil Jackson's future, speculating on what he might do after
the season, taking some time off. Phil Jackson end of
a five year contract, his future knows, will he be back?
(07:02):
Will you go to a Montana cabin who you know?
You just don't know what's going You really don't my
bets on that cabin, though, I really believe that win
or lose, that'll be back at the cabin for a year.
Do you think so I do, I really do, and
he I think he still loves coaching. I think he
(07:22):
thinks that times coaches need a break, and I believe
that he's gonna take a break. He said that he
would as soon as it's all over, either they get
eliminated or win the championship is sit down with Jerry Barstow.
So now with its cup shot, it'll be very interesting
because it's a part of me that wonders if he's
(07:43):
gonna miss the buzz. I mean, it's a buzz, it's
it's a it's a long way from Staples Center, and
that whole scene in a Montana cabin. I mean, you
can have both in your life. It would be pretty difficult. Well,
since I've already predicted that he's gonna leave, I'm gonna
also predict that he's gonna come back. I think Bill
Jackson will take in a break. I don't think he's
returning from coaching. I think he's a lifer. He loves coaching,
(08:05):
and I think we will see him again if he
decides to leave us for Duncan drops the second Phil
the Great. I just don't want to see h from Boston.
You probably won't know you'll be there for a while.
Was that anything that you thought about is an assistant
coach during the season and during this playoff run, No,
not really. I mean it was part of a year
(08:27):
prior he had had his health scare with his heart,
so around that time, it was probably coming up on
a year anniversary of the procedure that he had UM.
But you never know what philm about, you know, what
he's going to do. He always liked to keep his
options open UM, So there was a good chance at
(08:48):
the end of the season that with the run the
Lakers had, that he was going to look to move on,
you know, and take a break. He always felt it
taking breaks from coaching vitalized him physically, mentally, emotionally, and
it was important for him to do that. But he
did love the grind of basketball and the coaching and
(09:10):
being around the team and everything. But he also valued
his uh time away from basketball. There was some you know,
I don't know if concern is the right words, probably
a little bit too strong, but there was some doubt
as to whether or not he was gonna end up
coming back the following year. What about the Spur side
of things, This is peak Spurs Big three, Duncan, Parker,
(09:32):
gin Ovali and especially Tim Duncan. He scored thirty in
game one of that series. Here's you know, one of
the things we talked about in game three and four
for the later did a great job of crowding Duck
in the traffic right here. That's neck close enough. You
get ducking a chest a go one on one. Most
(09:52):
cases out he's gonna burn you. But you guys did
a good job of slowing him down in this game
for the most part. What was the strategy against him
and just all the things that made him so hard
to stop, Well, we had to be very physical with him,
big strong player, but I don't I don't think he
liked playing the physical game, and I think we did
(10:14):
a good job of keeping him off balance and sending
different people to him, crowding his space. Duncan n change
with him two point games. Spent time just giving him
different looks and even on different sides of the floor,
(10:34):
whether he's posted up on the left side of the
right side of the floor. And it was important for
us to make sure that we tried to turn him
away from his favorite directions. So we usually tried to
turn him to his right shoulder. So that was something
that we wanted to do and uh, you know, needed
(10:54):
to do in order for us to have success. But
we mixing up coverages on him, crowding his space, making
sure that the lane was crowded, that he didn't have
easy access to the basket. Those were all important things
for us, but we had to do. The number one
thing we had to do was slow Tony Parker down
and make sure that he didn't get a lot of
(11:15):
penetration capabilities. Yeah, a lot of guys. I mean, that's
so fun when you go back and look at this series,
the amount of star power, in the amount of potent weapons. Uh,
going back to Kobe because I know you mentioned that
he um was really good early on Devin Brown with
the found Brown of the game to provide what but
(11:36):
top of the tropes will be a little extra energy
as he did in Game one here. Well, the one
thing he does, how is he makes shots and you
know Bruce Bowen has not done that. The adult side
to that is now he has to guard Kobe. That's
(11:56):
the point right there. You know, brings going there's a
great defender. Vivin Brown is a great offensive player. Bryant
they just leading a game for Los Angeles eleven Rick
Popovitch and I could see him coming in. Now, Bruce
Bowen hass to play in this game. He's the one guy.
You can't stop Kobe, but they at least have to
(12:16):
bother Kobe. And right now Kobe thinks there's nobody guarding.
And to think about the fact that he was twenty
five years old at this point. You saw the confidence.
You saw the confidence that he had in big games.
What was it like coaching Kobe at this point of
his career. So he's obviously coming into his prime. Um,
he'd grown up, he had matured, he developed, understood the
(12:40):
NBA game. Uh, physically, he was just bigger and stronger.
Kobe Bryant right now is attacking the rim. You know
what Bruce Bowen is thinking about. He said, I was
doing a pretty good job before I went out. No,
he's on fire, and you know, you put me in
here and trying to put this fire out and it's
very difficult to do that me. Bryan is playing out
(13:00):
of his head. He's a tireless worker in terms of
his development individually, how he could analyze the game and
how his opponent defended him and what he needed to
do to counter that defense. He was a real student
of the game in that In that regard the big
two for the Lakers and has four, Brian has twelve,
(13:23):
and for Colobe and two more you have resoundingly, you
have to worry so much about Colby coming in for
the hand off that this ball was called over playing him.
But his confidence in himself, whether it's arrogance or just
a total belief in himself that he could score on
anybody at any time under any given circumstance, was a
(13:46):
huge character capability that he had two to play well
in ball games. Um, he's just had the ultimate confidence
in himself and match that with his work ethic, his
de termination, his desire to win, and his skill sets.
It just made him one of the elite players that
have ever played this game. At halftime, Kobe checked in
(14:18):
with Michelle to Foyd, how did you hold him off? Well,
we did a good job defensively him. Offensively, we're a
little out of sync there. Really didn't finish the half
the way we should have. Uh sep we cast out
your third court a little better. Yeah, I mean it
hurts certainly that Shaquille has been out on a lot
of this half. Is that what took you out of sync? Well,
I know we didn't really execute uh rush some shots,
rush on possessions and enabled them to get back in it.
(14:40):
Now Shaquille gets back into the third quarter, we're gonna
try to establish him early and try to get him more.
Did they turned it over quite a few times too,
and you guys have been able to capitalize. Do you
think those turnovers have been their fault or you guys
forcing them? Well, it's always a combination of boat. Uh.
You know, we're doing a good job with our rotation,
is being active, having active hands and uh at the
same time, did I take care of the ball to him?
All right? Kobe, thanks for stopping back to you. Thank you.
(15:02):
Michelle's a good point. Kobe just maybe used to spurs
with ten turnovers nine in the second quarter. Shack a
little bit of foul trouble in this game. He had
three fouls in that first half. Was there any concern
at this point about getting him going or headed into
the second half just him being in foul trouble at
that point, Well, it's it's always important within the triangle
(15:24):
to establish that inside presence, and he was so physically
dominant that even trying to defend him would where his
his his opponents out, so we would try and get
him good looks. But I thought the Spurs did a
great job of just crowding him and making him uncomfortable
(15:44):
and shocked. To his credit when he recognized that his
space to operate wasn't available, then he did a great
job of passing the basketball. Albeit him and other players
on our team ended up turning the ball over a
decent amount in a game which cost a lot of baskets.
But I think he did a good job at trying
(16:05):
to involve his teammates. It just didn't seem like Shaq
was in real rhythm in that ball game. Whether it
was ham or what the Spurs were doing or foul trouble,
he just didn't appear extremely comfortable throughout the ball game.
George three pointers and the Laker lead is double digits. Again.
(16:26):
The other guys stepping up for the Los Angeles Lakers,
and Kobe Bryant is trusting them, you know, well, speaking
speaking of one of the other players that really benefited
from the attention that Kobe shock others garnered. The third
quarter of this game, it was all Devin George. He's
a friend of the show. He's been on with us before.
He got hot. In the third scored eleven of his
(16:47):
sixteen points seance three pointer. Boy, is that big? The
steel by George san Antonio turning the bowl over at
the rate of once a minute. How critical was it
for for guys like Kobe or Shack or others um
superstars on this team to trust Devon and get him
the ball in these moments? You know, it's funny thinking
(17:08):
about somebody like Devon shooting the amount of threes that
he shot, and it was abnormal at that time for
something that he took. Now it's just commonplaces. There's multiple
guys on teams that take four or five six threes
in the ball game, Animal from the blips, Devin George
(17:29):
goes in and teams at home, and Devin George, who
has been pretty silent for a couple of weeks now
during these playoffs. So at least a series has thirteen
points and this confidence is soaring right now. But because
for us focusing on Tony Parker and Tim Duncan and
then focusing on Shack and Kobe, other people had to
(17:50):
step up and for them, it was Brown and for
us it was George. George again rule. What a time
to get George. Biggest lead of the game. Lakers are
up by sixteen. Well, we said before the game that
someone else or the Lakers were gonna have a have
to make suns. We didn't know. It was just only
(18:11):
one gun. And Devin did a terrific job of taking
advantage of his skill set and his ability to easily
shoot threes, and he got some really good looks in
the ball game. So he was he was. He was
a huge catalyst for us to win that ball game. Yeah,
it was funny looking at the at the box score.
(18:32):
You said it, you guys only took fifteen three point attempts.
He took seven of them. Of just amazing how the
game has changed and just the different type of looks
and shots. But in the third quarter, there's four minutes left,
you guys are up by sixteen points the normal and
(18:52):
at sixty long forty eight, he thought about shooting from outside,
moved it in and notably, and Devin Brown has done
an excellent job of keeping the Spurs in this game.
No disposed lead to Duncan and Tony Pawker to respond,
I know we're taking you way back because, uh, this
is a while ago, but do you remember that what
(19:14):
you guys are feeling at that point with that type
of lead in the game. I think the team was
always confident, and you do when you develop a lead
in playoff series in a critical ball game, start to
feel very good about yourself, and the players are feeling good.
Devon was making shots and it seemed like the ball
was moving easier at that point in time. But as
(19:36):
a coaching staff, we know how Popovich can motivate his
team and get his team on track and also change
the what goes on in the ball game. So there
was always some apprehension despite the big lead, that it
was going to hold. You know that we were going
to have to find a way to really scratching claw
to come out with a victory in that ball game.
(19:59):
But you know, if we were feeling pretty good. I
can't deny that at that point in time, we're feeling
pretty good about the game. Here's Phil Jackson in the
postgame presser. The Spurs played great defense in the fourth quarter.
They got us into a situation where we were playing
stand round, playing individual basketball instead of team basketball, and
m We thought that Cobe could do it by himself
(20:20):
in situations or are shock and we um played right
into their hands and mired up the game for ourselves.
We played a good game, I thought, up until the
middle of the third quarter. Yeah, and then the fourth
quarter is where the offense starts to sputter a little bit.
You only score six points in the first ten minutes
of the fourth How much of that would you attribute
(20:41):
to the Spurs defense? Was it it just some miscused
by the offense. Do you remember the balance at the
start of that final frame? You know, I think it
was a little both to the best of my memory. Obviously,
the game is critically important to both teams, but more
so to the Spurs because it's their home game at By.
They can't afford to lose this game, so they come
(21:03):
out with more energy, more effort, more focused, and sometimes
when a team gets overconfident, which I think we did,
we took a step back at that point in time,
and then things started to unravel for us. We didn't
make the shots that we needed to make, turning the
basketball over and also them having you know, that energy
(21:25):
that you need to play with at a lot of
times when you're coming from behind. There's just this such
tremendous amount of focus that you play with. And I
thought Pop did a good job of making sure that
his team had that late push in them and went
after the ball game. Sometimes whenever you get you know,
you lose that momentum, it's hard to regain it. And
(21:48):
we we couldn't find somebody to kind of slow that down,
somebody to make some shots at that point time. We
tried different people, but it just seemed like it didn't
seem like anybody could get us going to bang PM
of the scores. Where I was at the droning goal
and if a good perfect goal a G. Parker woke
f R. Parker. All he needs is work shop to
(22:09):
make him feel now a heaven because I want to say,
this is a Parker, do work stop. It's Tony Parker hit.
Now the litters are gonna help to deal with totally Parker.
Next gard to have to get into it is Tim Dunkin. Yeah,
and you mentioned this earlier. Tony Parker. Um, he really
got rolling, especially in that fourth quarter. Crazy to think
(22:29):
when you watch back at that only twenty one years
old at this point, Um, but was quickly becoming one
of the best point guards in the league. It's amazing
how quickly a tame to change. But I'll tell you
what it change with Tny Parker. They got shuck up
with off. It's a reburn the whole thing. Change because
totally perfect change. What made him so hard to stop? Uh,
(22:54):
if you recall in this game, just his speed, this quickness,
his willingness to pass the basketball. He's very difficult to
stay in front, very cerebral player, understood the game. One
of the things that we did and most teams did
back then, was challenged him to shoot the basketball. He
wasn't a very good shooter at that point time. To
(23:17):
to all of his credit, he did a good job
of evolving as a player and developed that outside shot
later on in his career. But just his ability to
to penetrate defenses, stop on a dime, make inside shots,
those are all things that were very difficult. And you know,
we didn't have a great matchup for him. So if
(23:39):
our team defensive concept wasn't working well, we didn't have
somebody with the speed to stay up with him whenever
he got it going. And I think they did a
good job of putting him in situations to where he
could use his tremendous speed and uh, you know, getting
picks and getting his defender off of him and creating
(24:00):
space so that he could penetrate fine open books. The
Lakers are two for their last eight team and that's
why a sixteen point game has become a one point game.
Ronny Parker's to take the time out, Tony Parks or
at seen Duncan, who's been doing a whole lot in
(24:22):
the fourth quarter, and what was a sudden doing a
whole lot? Sometimes you do? Already looks so much fun
to watch. Um, we're gonna get down to the to
the nitty gritty, to the end of this. A sixteen
point game became a one point game. There's about thirty
seconds left and Derek Fisher's bringing the ball up the court.
He looks over at the bench, but Phil doesn't want
to time out. Derek Fisher look over at the bench.
(24:45):
A got a sixth set differ. Jackson will not call us.
How about he has up to a love t T
tricks to set up. This is gonna be picking roll
with Cody and you go to a Kobe and carmelone
pick and roll along coming up he sets it will
he gets a Rabbits probably puts it up, made it.
Lakers buy one of eleven and a half to go.
(25:06):
Kobe Bryant is tired, hadn't believable shot, but he walked
up the floor like he wanted to pass out. And
the only thing I can think of right now, because
Robert Oory is on the other two, he's out of
the other He's on the spurs right now. And you
know he even loved to get a shot. He wants
(25:27):
this picking rope. You can't give him the edge. He
had a great look at that one. To look at
him walk off the floor. And this is Phil Jackson's reaction.
I've seen a guy's chicaggle through that. I've been there before.
(25:50):
The guy has won nine titles, a tenth to break
a time with the Red Hour back. In fact, if
Phil Jackson wins a title, he will become the winning
ish champion, shift coach or manager in any of the
four major North American team sports. But back to the
strategy and with Phil, was that his approach to not
(26:10):
call timeouts in those moments or how to take us
into the to the mind of of you guys, him
the coaching staff circumstances like that, and in particular this one. Yeah,
he liked to show a lot of trust and faith
in his players that they were going to make the
right decision at that time. That was one concept of it.
Plus he he had already gone over you know what, uh,
(26:33):
in critical situations, what we would prefer to run. It
wasn't a huge wing screening role type of team, but
we knew to get into a wing screening roll at
that point in time, something that hadn't been run so
throughout the ball game. So it was going to be
something new and foreign for the Spurs to have to
deal with. And I think it was Malone that set
(26:57):
the pick form. So you're dealing with a player the
role and shoot the basketball with Kobe handling um. But
he also didn't like to have the other coach to
have an advantage if we call the time out to
make any substitutions or have their defense set. He just
preferred to always get into a flow whenever possible. So
(27:20):
that was his trust and faith in the and his
players to make the right decision, knowing what he wanted
at that point in time in the ball game. When
we come back, there are eleven seconds left in the game.
Isn't over yet? Eleven seconds up in this game, where
(27:47):
are they gonna go out? They're going to Tony Parker
and Tim Duncan and the picking role most likely or
straight to Duncan. Now, the other thing that Papa Bitch
has done with Tony Parker's is just that the floor
for him. I can't imagine not having your two best
players involved on this last play. So if I'm Phil Jackson,
I'm thinking pick and roll Tony Parker and Tim Duncan.
(28:10):
The other thing, the Lakers have a foul to give here,
not in the last two minutes, not over the limit.
So the Lakers can commit a foul without the Spurs
going in the free throw line. And that's good, that's
big at this point he be got. But the interesting
how much time the Lakers Let's go up the club
before they use it. So Kobe hits a shot with
(28:33):
eleven seconds left to give you guys a lead. Uh,
you have a foul to give at this point, Derek
Fisher commits the foul. It's only five seconds left. One
thing I will say, and then certain coaches can have
first things to take you extremely well, great Papa Bitch.
It's one of the better side out of bound coaches
in this league, and they're gonna draw up a heck
(28:54):
of a play here. This is This is when Tim Duncan,
uh Genobli gets and then the Duncan he gets doubled
hits the fade away will bound with just four tenths
of a second left. But you that last that last
offensive possession for you guys on the spur shot. Can
(29:14):
you remember just what what you guys were thinking or
what the approach was at that point. Well, obviously putting
the ball in your best player's hands, somebody that can
do multiple things that you know, we thought the ball
would go to Tim Duncan because you could shoot, he
could pass, he could attack the basket. There's a lot
of things that he could do with the ball. Plus
(29:35):
if he was guarded by Shack, there might be they
from their standpoint, feeling like they have an advantage so
that he can make decisions. Into the best of my memory,
having to guard somebody like you, nobly who inbounds the ball.
Now here's a guy who's quick and fast and does
a really good job of reading defenses that he could
(29:56):
have been a guy that cut off of Duncan to
re give a pass. But I think that they all
kind of collided into each other, or the guy it
was Kobe, so he's Shack, Duncan, Genoblie. They all kind
of crashed into each other. So now Duncan has to
make a decision because his option to get the bulk
(30:17):
back to Genobley wasn't there. To Duncan, he gets doubled,
Shack all over, he gets away, a fade away lelievable
who he's pressured to. He makes it outside. I remember
(30:43):
thinking during the ball game when he takes his turn
and he's fading away from the basket, the clock is
is taking down, and from my ankle I can see
him and the clock and the shot clock and and
Shack is all over. Shack's doing a gray job at
defending him. And when that ball went up, you can
see it almost as soon as it left his hand
(31:06):
that it was going to go in. And it's like,
no way, there's no way that boss going in. But
it's sure did uh. It was very disappointing. Obviously at
that point in time, you took at the fever that dybuck.
Now you know it's almost still building and getting what
(31:26):
Toby that's getting his fod you took at the pool
of rey Bell the lekers that taken just spends out
of the way and Tim Duncan's turned degree. They look
at this, they take away the hand off, Ducking has
nowhere to goes a fayaway jumps up off the wrong
(31:47):
LEGO ya amazing could have I truly felt like you
guys can have defended a better, uh amazing shot. So
so Duncan hits the shot and Doc rivers and Al
Michael's on the call for the game for a b
C and Doc mentions that four tenths of a second
is a lot different than three tents of a second
left in a game, because you actually can catch it
(32:07):
and shoot that that tents this huge because the three
tips not enough time to get a settle. It all
take of a second. You allone tick hits and suit
We're making you dig back into the memory bank hard.
And I'm not sure if you recall this, but do
you remember the play that Phil drew up in the
huddle for the last shot? You know? Not? Not really
(32:31):
I don't, because um, you want the players to be around.
This was how I thought of it as an assistant coach.
I want the players to see the play because if
something happens and he's got to throw somebody else in
the ball game on a substitution, you want them all
to know what's going on. But there was also a
sequence where we try and run one play and Pop
(32:54):
calls the time out and we're trying to bound the
ball and then we have to call time out. We
can't get it in. So now you're looking at the
third opportunity, and I think all of them were different.
So the Lakers, how he bounding, Gary Tayton will throw
it in. They're in a line. Coby's the third guy
(33:19):
in the line. They're trying to break and free. Robert
Ory just told the official we have a foul to give,
and the officials timeout spurs good time out over enough
and then a love the spurs to kind of see
what the Lakers want to do. I can tell you
(33:40):
what they're gonna do it. They're going to Kobe point
if they there's no flight. We didn't want to show
San Antonio the same look every single time because that's
what they were bracing for. Now. I like, with Greg
top of this, did what's Brobert or he knows that
he doesn't have the the guy out of bounce because
they don't have enough time they get it back to him.
So what they're doing, it's like in poo Well, they're
(34:01):
spaying Kobe Bryant. Robert Ory is just stacy. Wherever Kobe
Bryant is going, they're gonna deny him to catch. Listen,
they see those Portland highlights. They're not gonna low Kobe
Bryant to catch the ball. Great moves by great publicans.
So we were trying to get them, you know, to
see something different every time, but you know, not knowing
(34:23):
what the exact play was, it sure felt like it
was just a broken play and a complete ad lib
by Derek Fisher. Four tanks remaining in the fifth game.
Here they go, they get at Fisher. He stories stories
(34:50):
the buzzard. It will have to be reviewed, they'll review it.
And that I remember thinking, you know when he shot
the ball, that you know, Derrek had this long wind
up on his shot and he just kind of shot it,
you know, very quickly with little wind up. But the
angle I had just like I'm Tim Duncan shot. It's
(35:11):
like it's good, it's going in, it's got a chance.
You know, they'll review it. The Lakers are gonna run
to the dressing room and they'll trying to get on
the plane before the officials can get over to the
scorer's table. For good, We're gonna take a look at it.
But I gotta tell you love to look good. I
thought it did too, my goodnes Well, I had a feeling.
(35:31):
I was just gonna ask you. You know, everybody in
the world knows they're going after Brian. They're gonna try
and foul Brian. So do you go to somebody else?
Do you take a chance? Fixture, Here we go take
a look at this trying You can see him looking
telling fisture breaks open, starts. Yeah, he's good. Yeah, I
think it is good. With about a tenth of a second. Yeah,
(35:54):
it's it's so close, very close. What's the left has
to be out of his hands. Both it's out of
his as it's out of his hands. It's good. Although
he didn't seem very excited, Phil Jackson was honest about
his play calls after the game. We just had a
curl in a lob set up for Shack and we
had a step back or a curl on the other direction.
(36:17):
For Kobe and Fish and Carl were interchanging, and uh,
you know, Fish had the beneficiary of everybody focusing on Kobe.
I saw that the alignment was different, that the alignments
were similar in the first and the third with the
plays have been saying in the first and the third
as one, Yes, I just changed the actions, but they
were the same. And every instance was it going to
(36:37):
be some combination of Kobe curling out in shock for
a lob, but was always he almost have to go
for a lot in those situations, or at least threatened
for it. The inbound passer, Gary Payton, walked the media
through his decision making on the final play. Well, really,
you know, go and get a law. But it was
all you know, I knew they was gonna be looking
(36:58):
for Kobe shack and uh men, Fish had high contact
and fishes wide opening the first place where I called
it twenty, but it was too far off a pass
so and he was gonna shoot the three. So I
was so we when we went back in, I don't
even come to the ball. As soon as he came
to the ball off off Kobe's pick. When he when
he picked for Kobe, they tried to jump at Kobe
and I seen him wide open, and I looked at him,
(37:19):
gave it to him, and he turned around and he
just made it contact before the players. And I can't
think as he was coming. Yeah, he was coming. As
soon as he made the pick, he knew the pop.
He popped, and he popped, and he was wide open.
And then when he turned here he let it go.
I said that I got a chance of going in
and it went in a great difficult And when your
body women him is going one way, the hoops that way.
I mean he left handed, but he was left handed.
(37:40):
See he turned and when he when when you if
he was right ahead and we had to turn ower,
but he was coming that way, and he turned that
way and then went right down. A lot of wind
can went out of me, A lot of everything went out.
And uh no, I said, when we had a little time,
I thought that we had we got guys that can
make shots, you know, and if we get them open
and they get a good look, good looking, we'll go down.
(38:02):
And he was just hoping, you know. It was the
ass of prayer and prayer. Michelle Tafoya caught Shack before
he ran off the court, and he sums it up
in his way. Here's Michelle. Alright, I'm wished to killinea
because everybody else red into the locker room. Can you
describe those last point for me? You don't have a second.
What are you gonna call that fraction? One lucky shot
(38:24):
deserves another. And then when Derek's shot went in, we're
all excited, we're all elaid it. And then the Spurs
are just stunned. They're absolutely stunned that it went in.
And you know, from my angle again, it sure looked
like the shot got off in time. There was more
than enough time, you know, that the ball was out
(38:45):
of his hands that it was going to be good.
So when they went to replay, it just kind of
confirmed that thought. But I think even the Spurs felt
that that shot was good and they knew it, and
that's why they were so disappointed that that that it
went at. From Kurt's angle, it looked good, but it
looked a little different from Derek's point of view. Derek
(39:07):
talked to Jim Hill in the locker room. Actually, when
I first let it go, I felt like it was
a little longer, but I knew it was online. And
then as the ball got closer to the rim. I
knew it was going in and that's why I was
hot telling it out of here before the referees could
even look at the replay. I was, um, you know,
I stopped in the back to watch the local telecast
and make sure that they counted it. But I knew
(39:29):
I let it go fast enough, and fortunately the film
to tape show that because you were not the first
option though, no, never in that situation. You know, well,
you know, we all understand that. And that's the reality
of this business and of this team. Uh. That's what
Kobe Bryant and she Killed and Carl and Gary I've
done for their entire careers is hit big shots for
(39:49):
their teams. And but you know, guys like myself and
Devin George and the other guys on this team, uh,
we're a big part of what happens as well, and
it's important that other guys can step up to make
me plays and we did that tonight. So you weren't
surprised when the ball came to you. Um, not surprised.
I was. I was extremely open, and like I said,
Garry hit me with a passed that was perfect for
me to get a time and shooting only point for
(40:11):
you know, both of those shots were defended really well,
and both of those shots, uh, we'll go down in
history is a couple of the greatest shots in NBA history.
That we're meaningful shots and on some level lucky shots.
But when did look at him, but it really it
propelled us the rest of the series, and it just
(40:34):
took the wind out of the sale of the Spurs. Wellnessly,
for twenty years, I've never seen an ending like That's
that's off the shots, two unbelievable shots. I've never seen
anything like it ever to lead changing shots in the
last four tenths of a second, thinking about the fact
(40:55):
that it was Derek Fisher who hit the shining You
had a star star the team, but Derek Fisher had
the shot a role player instead of one of the superstars.
Did that make the moment even more special? Yeah, obviously
for him. Michelle Tafoya got Derek Fisher back on the
cord for a couple of questions on his final shot. Yeah,
(41:16):
with Derek Fisher, we gotta get him because this man
is in hi demand. Talk about the design on that
last play, Well, most most times the play is not
for me, even though I can make shots most of
the time, we're going to Kobe and shot automatically, but
they covered those two guys. I came open, Garrett gave
me a great pass and turn the shot. Tell me
how the moment felt, because, as our guys just explained,
(41:37):
you lost your starting Tom Malone is here giving you
quite the quite the back out on the back, but
you had lost your starting job. Yeah, this this is special.
I mean, we got almost game, this game away, and uh,
I think the night's game is so indicative of how
our whole season that's gone. We look great at times,
we've looked more at times, but we've hung in. Everybody's
(41:57):
had adversity individually collectively, and this is just a great
win for our team and organization. You know, it's hard
to describe the way that this bench erupted, the way
that every player upted, especially after watching those replays. Can
you talk about what that like or locker room is like?
Right now? Well, that's the only way we can win
on the road. We need everybody to contribute. Shaq was
big even though he was in foul trouble. Kobe played solid.
Everybody just gave we think a give Devin George deserves
(42:19):
a lot of credit tonight, we just can't fighting the show.
Congratulations to you guys. But you know, when you're looking
at what pop did, he put the inbound er who
was defending the inbounder, and I think it I think
that was Peyton if I'm not mistaken, but he's uh.
He takes his man and he goes to Kobe because
(42:41):
that's who he believes phil his diagram to play for
to get him the opportunity to shoot the basketball, because
even if you throw it in, you can't throw it
back to the inbound or there's not enough time. So
whoever caught the ball was gonna have to shoot it.
So if if the play wasn't diagrams specific quickly for
Derek Fisher, than he did a great job of that
(43:03):
living But that's what we had to do at that
point time. I don't I don't think we had any
more time out, So somebody had to make a decision,
and Derek Fisher had to make a decision on just
getting himself open. At that point in time, Kobe was
guarded by Gary Payton's man, so he was double teamed
and and he was trying to get open Kobe was,
(43:27):
but he made an interesting decision was to go more
towards the half court line. He reversed his course to
the best of my memory. But going away from the
basket is not the way you would want to go
with four tents of a second, because it's going to
take a long time to to get up a shot
longer than four tenths of a second. I thought Derek
(43:47):
did a good job going to his left hand where
he could get the ball and kind of almost push
it up to the basket. It wasn't his traditional shot,
but he did get it off on time. But it
was just a good, good read and necessary read. It
was something that absolutely had to happen at that point
in time, and we just got very fortunate that it
(44:08):
went in. And he knew it was good too. He
ran right off the court. He ran right past his
teammates as he get on the plane us get out
of here. But he knew it was good. I stayed
out on the court to make sure that, you know,
after the referees looked at the replay too, signified that
it was a good basket. But Derek felt it was good.
(44:30):
He was gone. I don't know what we were going
to do if we called it, he was probably already
in the shower by then. Cur you said it, you
see Derek, all the players they just ran straight the
locker room. What was the locker room scene like after
that one? It was, you know, everybody was so happy
when you think of the swing in emotion from Duncan
(44:54):
shot to Derek shot in that relative short period of time,
from disappointment to elation, and the significance of a Game
five victory like that after the series is tied to
two and winning in San Antonio going back home, it
is just everybody was not only elated but relieved that
(45:14):
we came up with a win too. So it was
a lot of jumping up and down, a lot of
high fiving and hugging because that was a huge ball
game for us. Well, it's a special special moment, I know,
for all of us uh in NBA history, and one
that's so so much fun to relive and to go
back on. So we can't thank you enough for your
time and then sharing some of your memories with us.
(45:36):
Thank you, my pleasure. I'm surprised that I remembered half
of that stuff. The brilliance, brilliance, take care of Kurt
Derek talked about how the shot changed his life a
few years later. Yeah, I mean, you know, that was
just a moment in time that you know, we'll live
on forever. And I don't even think I understood it.
You know, when it happened, I knew it was a
(45:57):
big shot. And then you obviously tell about my reaction now,
uh that I was excited, but I don't think I
really understood the magnitude of you know, how much more
visibility would bring to me individually. You know, there are
so many fans that you know, they love basketball, they
watch the NBA, but you know they're not watching every moment,
every play in this place like that. You know that,
(46:18):
you know, the average person that probably wouldn't even recognize you,
they don't even know my name, but they know me
as point four. You know. That's so that's that's the
that's the only thing that you know connects us as people.
And so it's a fun thing, you know for people
to if they remember anything about my career, that that
that one shot will probably last forever. You just throwing off. Yeah,
that was an old you know, little rock high school thing. Um,
(46:41):
you know, you win a game on the road, you know,
the last second shot. You got to get on that
bus and the high tailer out of there before something
bad happens to you. So I was just something that
I learned, you know, years ago. NBA Flashback is a
production of I Heart Radio and the NBA. For more
podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
(47:01):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. M
NBA Flashback is a production of I Heart Radio and
the NBA four texts remaning here they go. They get
it's a Fisher. He scores scoreszz It'll have to be reviewed.
(00:26):
They'll review it. They'll review it. Derek Fisher point four seconds.
Everyone knows about the crazy shot that won the game,
but there was a lot more to this dramatic series
between two historic NBA franchises. Game five of the two
(00:47):
thousand four Western Conference Semifinals was a pivotal battle that
went back and forth down the stretch with superstars hitting
amazing shots, and it wasn't decided until after the final
buzzer had sounded. On today's episode of NBA Flashback, we
go back to May thirteenth, two thousand four, the year
(01:08):
Usher had four different songs hit number one. We all
learned what a wardrobe malfunction was thanks to Justin Timberlake
and Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl, and everyone in
Oprah's audience was about to get a car. The Lakers
and the Spurs are meeting for the fourth year in
a row in the playoffs. Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich
(01:32):
are playing high level chess with Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan,
both at their peaks. This was truly a historic game.
We are honored to speak with Laker legend Kurt Rambis,
a four time NBA champion as a player with the Lakers,
He's won five more titles with the team as a
coach in front office member, currently the senior basketball advisor
(01:53):
for the Lakers. Kurt, we are so thrilled to have
you on here with us today. It's my pleasure, it's
pike pleasure. I'm glad to be talking to you. Well,
before we get back to this, this game five of
the two thousand four Western Conference Semifinals. Take us back
to two thousand four. That Lakers team with Kobe Shack,
Gary Payton, Carl Malone. It was one of the most
(02:14):
talented teams on paper and NBA history. What were the
expectations like throughout the course of that season, and the
way they always are for most Lakers seasons, is to
win the title, especially when you've got Kobe and Shock
Gun your ball club, and then you had Hall of
famers like Carl Malone and Garry Payton. We had high expectations.
(02:35):
It was a a season where we're trying to fit
in Carl and Gary who played, you know, their style
of ball, their brand of ball throughout their entire career,
and then trying to orient them into the triangle, which
sometimes worked well and sometimes it didn't work well. But
we thought we had a talented team, a deep team,
(02:58):
versatile team. Um So we gave ourselves a lot of
hope to start the season that we could eventually win
a title. Well. Fast forward May thirteenth of two thousand four,
and Spurs are the defending NBA champions. The series now
is tied two to two with Game five in San Antonio,
and welcome back to San Antonio. Al michael Is doc
(03:21):
Rivers Michelle Tafoya on this hot, humid, sticky nighted for
the night's Game five, starting up front for the Lakers,
Devin George, Karl Malone and Shaquille O'Neill coming up at
twenty eight point games. Turkolt was hot from a three
point landing Game four, Duncan and Nastovich in the backcourt.
Gary Payton called me Bryant for the Lakers, Tony Parker
(03:43):
and Bruce Bowen, who will be shadowing Bryant most of
the night for San Antonio, and let's check in with
Michelle Well Alvis Morning Spurs Shooter. I was all business.
The players told me they've noticed the difference. No choking
around just to say home lighted us about tonight's game
and the ward of the day for the first team
is aggressive, great, Papa has said before the game, because
(04:04):
they aggressive team almost always gets more calls and usually
gets to win. And al papacis also set the Spark
with play a better brand of defense tonight because quotes
Toby Blant's abilities in game one or Game four, rather
he trips all the defensive abilities and philosophies. Well for
the Spark to type it up tonight. Now, going into
(04:25):
the game, do you remember what the feeling was like
inside the team. I think we were very confident. They
won the first two, which is very disappointing, and I
think we made adjustments to try and handle Tony Parker
and Tim Duncan in a different fashion and make their
lives a little bit more difficult in the next two
ball games. So we ended up winning the next two,
(04:47):
so it's tied to two. So I think we're very
confident going into the ball game. Also realizing the significance
of the Game five and how important it is when
SERI are tied to two. So we were feeling good
about it. Yeah, in coming off of that game four
where Kobe Bryant had forty two points help leading your
(05:10):
Lakers to a win, I don't know that anybody could
have done anything with Bryant when he had forty two
and shackets one eight the other night there are you
look at it? I thought this a pretty good jough
Kobe Bryant. He just made some tyfficult shots in terms
of game planning and when it came to someone like
Kobe going against Bruce Bowen obviously a very tough Spurs defense.
(05:30):
Were there things you did in particular to get him
going or how did you strategize to really maximize all
the talents that we saw to him at that young age. Well,
Kobe was a very first little ball player, and within
the triangle, we could put him in different spots on
the floor, we could put him in isolations, pick and
roll post ups at the elbow that we could give
(05:54):
Bruce a lot of different looks when he was trying
to figure out how to defend him. And Kobe's versus
tility with his ability to shoot long shots, mid rain shots,
attack the basket, get to the free throw line. But
Bruce did an incredible job. He moves his feet very well.
He moved to speed. I don't know if he's moving
his speed well now, but back then and did a
(06:18):
great job of staying in front of Kobe and just
making every night very difficult for him. But I think
Kobe got tired too throughout the series. So Bruce just
haranguing him, um, every second that he was out there
on the floor, made it very difficult for Kobe despite
his success in that ball game. Yeah, evident when you
(06:40):
go back and watch some of these games, um And
speaking of somewhere and tear or tiredness. Early on in
the game, Al Michael's and Doc Rivers, they were discussing
Phil Jackson's future, speculating on what he might do after
the season, taking some time off. Phil Jackson end of
a five year contract, his future knows, will he be back?
(07:02):
Will you go to a Montana cabin who you know?
You just don't know what's going You really don't my
bets on that cabin, though, I really believe that win
or lose, that'll be back at the cabin for a year.
Do you think so I do, I really do, and
he I think he still loves coaching. I think he
(07:22):
thinks that times coaches need a break, and I believe
that he's gonna take a break. He said that he
would as soon as it's all over, either they get
eliminated or win the championship is sit down with Jerry Barstow.
So now with its cup shot, it'll be very interesting
because it's a part of me that wonders if he's
(07:43):
gonna miss the buzz. I mean, it's a buzz, it's
it's a it's a long way from Staples Center, and
that whole scene in a Montana cabin. I mean, you
can have both in your life. It would be pretty difficult. Well,
since I've already predicted that he's gonna leave, I'm gonna
also predict that he's gonna come back. I think Bill
Jackson will take in a break. I don't think he's
returning from coaching. I think he's a lifer. He loves coaching,
(08:05):
and I think we will see him again if he
decides to leave us for Duncan drops the second Phil
the Great. I just don't want to see h from Boston.
You probably won't know you'll be there for a while.
Was that anything that you thought about is an assistant
coach during the season and during this playoff run, No,
not really. I mean it was part of a year
(08:27):
prior he had had his health scare with his heart,
so around that time, it was probably coming up on
a year anniversary of the procedure that he had UM.
But you never know what philm about, you know, what
he's going to do. He always liked to keep his
options open UM, So there was a good chance at
(08:48):
the end of the season that with the run the
Lakers had, that he was going to look to move on,
you know, and take a break. He always felt it
taking breaks from coaching vitalized him physically, mentally, emotionally, and
it was important for him to do that. But he
did love the grind of basketball and the coaching and
(09:10):
being around the team and everything. But he also valued
his uh time away from basketball. There was some you know,
I don't know if concern is the right words, probably
a little bit too strong, but there was some doubt
as to whether or not he was gonna end up
coming back the following year. What about the Spur side
of things, This is peak Spurs Big three, Duncan, Parker,
(09:32):
gin Ovali and especially Tim Duncan. He scored thirty in
game one of that series. Here's you know, one of
the things we talked about in game three and four
for the later did a great job of crowding Duck
in the traffic right here. That's neck close enough. You
get ducking a chest a go one on one. Most
(09:52):
cases out he's gonna burn you. But you guys did
a good job of slowing him down in this game
for the most part. What was the strategy against him
and just all the things that made him so hard
to stop, Well, we had to be very physical with him,
big strong player, but I don't I don't think he
liked playing the physical game, and I think we did
(10:14):
a good job of keeping him off balance and sending
different people to him, crowding his space. Duncan n change
with him two point games. Spent time just giving him
different looks and even on different sides of the floor,
(10:34):
whether he's posted up on the left side of the
right side of the floor. And it was important for
us to make sure that we tried to turn him
away from his favorite directions. So we usually tried to
turn him to his right shoulder. So that was something
that we wanted to do and uh, you know, needed
(10:54):
to do in order for us to have success. But
we mixing up coverages on him, crowding his space, making
sure that the lane was crowded, that he didn't have
easy access to the basket. Those were all important things
for us, but we had to do. The number one
thing we had to do was slow Tony Parker down
and make sure that he didn't get a lot of
(11:15):
penetration capabilities. Yeah, a lot of guys. I mean, that's
so fun when you go back and look at this series,
the amount of star power, in the amount of potent weapons. Uh,
going back to Kobe because I know you mentioned that
he um was really good early on Devin Brown with
the found Brown of the game to provide what but
(11:36):
top of the tropes will be a little extra energy
as he did in Game one here. Well, the one
thing he does, how is he makes shots and you
know Bruce Bowen has not done that. The adult side
to that is now he has to guard Kobe. That's
(11:56):
the point right there. You know, brings going there's a
great defender. Vivin Brown is a great offensive player. Bryant
they just leading a game for Los Angeles eleven Rick
Popovitch and I could see him coming in. Now, Bruce
Bowen hass to play in this game. He's the one guy.
You can't stop Kobe, but they at least have to
(12:16):
bother Kobe. And right now Kobe thinks there's nobody guarding.
And to think about the fact that he was twenty
five years old at this point. You saw the confidence.
You saw the confidence that he had in big games.
What was it like coaching Kobe at this point of
his career. So he's obviously coming into his prime. Um,
he'd grown up, he had matured, he developed, understood the
(12:40):
NBA game. Uh, physically, he was just bigger and stronger.
Kobe Bryant right now is attacking the rim. You know
what Bruce Bowen is thinking about. He said, I was
doing a pretty good job before I went out. No,
he's on fire, and you know, you put me in
here and trying to put this fire out and it's
very difficult to do that me. Bryan is playing out
(13:00):
of his head. He's a tireless worker in terms of
his development individually, how he could analyze the game and
how his opponent defended him and what he needed to
do to counter that defense. He was a real student
of the game in that In that regard the big
two for the Lakers and has four, Brian has twelve,
(13:23):
and for Colobe and two more you have resoundingly, you
have to worry so much about Colby coming in for
the hand off that this ball was called over playing him.
But his confidence in himself, whether it's arrogance or just
a total belief in himself that he could score on
anybody at any time under any given circumstance, was a
(13:46):
huge character capability that he had two to play well
in ball games. Um, he's just had the ultimate confidence
in himself and match that with his work ethic, his
de termination, his desire to win, and his skill sets.
It just made him one of the elite players that
have ever played this game. At halftime, Kobe checked in
(14:18):
with Michelle to Foyd, how did you hold him off? Well,
we did a good job defensively him. Offensively, we're a
little out of sync there. Really didn't finish the half
the way we should have. Uh sep we cast out
your third court a little better. Yeah, I mean it
hurts certainly that Shaquille has been out on a lot
of this half. Is that what took you out of sync? Well,
I know we didn't really execute uh rush some shots,
rush on possessions and enabled them to get back in it.
(14:40):
Now Shaquille gets back into the third quarter, we're gonna
try to establish him early and try to get him more.
Did they turned it over quite a few times too,
and you guys have been able to capitalize. Do you
think those turnovers have been their fault or you guys
forcing them? Well, it's always a combination of boat. Uh.
You know, we're doing a good job with our rotation,
is being active, having active hands and uh at the
same time, did I take care of the ball to him?
All right? Kobe, thanks for stopping back to you. Thank you.
(15:02):
Michelle's a good point. Kobe just maybe used to spurs
with ten turnovers nine in the second quarter. Shack a
little bit of foul trouble in this game. He had
three fouls in that first half. Was there any concern
at this point about getting him going or headed into
the second half just him being in foul trouble at
that point, Well, it's it's always important within the triangle
(15:24):
to establish that inside presence, and he was so physically
dominant that even trying to defend him would where his
his his opponents out, so we would try and get
him good looks. But I thought the Spurs did a
great job of just crowding him and making him uncomfortable
(15:44):
and shocked. To his credit when he recognized that his
space to operate wasn't available, then he did a great
job of passing the basketball. Albeit him and other players
on our team ended up turning the ball over a
decent amount in a game which cost a lot of baskets.
But I think he did a good job at trying
(16:05):
to involve his teammates. It just didn't seem like Shaq
was in real rhythm in that ball game. Whether it
was ham or what the Spurs were doing or foul trouble,
he just didn't appear extremely comfortable throughout the ball game.
George three pointers and the Laker lead is double digits. Again.
(16:26):
The other guys stepping up for the Los Angeles Lakers,
and Kobe Bryant is trusting them, you know, well, speaking
speaking of one of the other players that really benefited
from the attention that Kobe shock others garnered. The third
quarter of this game, it was all Devin George. He's
a friend of the show. He's been on with us before.
He got hot. In the third scored eleven of his
(16:47):
sixteen points seance three pointer. Boy, is that big? The
steel by George san Antonio turning the bowl over at
the rate of once a minute. How critical was it
for for guys like Kobe or Shack or others um
superstars on this team to trust Devon and get him
the ball in these moments? You know, it's funny thinking
(17:08):
about somebody like Devon shooting the amount of threes that
he shot, and it was abnormal at that time for
something that he took. Now it's just commonplaces. There's multiple
guys on teams that take four or five six threes
in the ball game, Animal from the blips, Devin George
(17:29):
goes in and teams at home, and Devin George, who
has been pretty silent for a couple of weeks now
during these playoffs. So at least a series has thirteen
points and this confidence is soaring right now. But because
for us focusing on Tony Parker and Tim Duncan and
then focusing on Shack and Kobe, other people had to
(17:50):
step up and for them, it was Brown and for
us it was George. George again rule. What a time
to get George. Biggest lead of the game. Lakers are
up by sixteen. Well, we said before the game that
someone else or the Lakers were gonna have a have
to make suns. We didn't know. It was just only
(18:11):
one gun. And Devin did a terrific job of taking
advantage of his skill set and his ability to easily
shoot threes, and he got some really good looks in
the ball game. So he was he was. He was
a huge catalyst for us to win that ball game. Yeah,
it was funny looking at the at the box score.
(18:32):
You said it, you guys only took fifteen three point attempts.
He took seven of them. Of just amazing how the
game has changed and just the different type of looks
and shots. But in the third quarter, there's four minutes left,
you guys are up by sixteen points the normal and
(18:52):
at sixty long forty eight, he thought about shooting from outside,
moved it in and notably, and Devin Brown has done
an excellent job of keeping the Spurs in this game.
No disposed lead to Duncan and Tony Pawker to respond,
I know we're taking you way back because, uh, this
is a while ago, but do you remember that what
(19:14):
you guys are feeling at that point with that type
of lead in the game. I think the team was
always confident, and you do when you develop a lead
in playoff series in a critical ball game, start to
feel very good about yourself, and the players are feeling good.
Devon was making shots and it seemed like the ball
was moving easier at that point in time. But as
(19:36):
a coaching staff, we know how Popovich can motivate his
team and get his team on track and also change
the what goes on in the ball game. So there
was always some apprehension despite the big lead, that it
was going to hold. You know that we were going
to have to find a way to really scratching claw
to come out with a victory in that ball game.
(19:59):
But you know, if we were feeling pretty good. I
can't deny that at that point in time, we're feeling
pretty good about the game. Here's Phil Jackson in the
postgame presser. The Spurs played great defense in the fourth quarter.
They got us into a situation where we were playing
stand round, playing individual basketball instead of team basketball, and
m We thought that Cobe could do it by himself
(20:20):
in situations or are shock and we um played right
into their hands and mired up the game for ourselves.
We played a good game, I thought, up until the
middle of the third quarter. Yeah, and then the fourth
quarter is where the offense starts to sputter a little bit.
You only score six points in the first ten minutes
of the fourth How much of that would you attribute
(20:41):
to the Spurs defense? Was it it just some miscused
by the offense. Do you remember the balance at the
start of that final frame? You know, I think it
was a little both to the best of my memory. Obviously,
the game is critically important to both teams, but more
so to the Spurs because it's their home game at By.
They can't afford to lose this game, so they come
(21:03):
out with more energy, more effort, more focused, and sometimes
when a team gets overconfident, which I think we did,
we took a step back at that point in time,
and then things started to unravel for us. We didn't
make the shots that we needed to make, turning the
basketball over and also them having you know, that energy
(21:25):
that you need to play with at a lot of
times when you're coming from behind. There's just this such
tremendous amount of focus that you play with. And I
thought Pop did a good job of making sure that
his team had that late push in them and went
after the ball game. Sometimes whenever you get you know,
you lose that momentum, it's hard to regain it. And
(21:48):
we we couldn't find somebody to kind of slow that down,
somebody to make some shots at that point time. We
tried different people, but it just seemed like it didn't
seem like anybody could get us going to bang PM
of the scores. Where I was at the droning goal
and if a good perfect goal a G. Parker woke
f R. Parker. All he needs is work shop to
(22:09):
make him feel now a heaven because I want to say,
this is a Parker, do work stop. It's Tony Parker hit.
Now the litters are gonna help to deal with totally Parker.
Next gard to have to get into it is Tim Dunkin. Yeah,
and you mentioned this earlier. Tony Parker. Um, he really
got rolling, especially in that fourth quarter. Crazy to think
(22:29):
when you watch back at that only twenty one years
old at this point, Um, but was quickly becoming one
of the best point guards in the league. It's amazing
how quickly a tame to change. But I'll tell you
what it change with Tny Parker. They got shuck up
with off. It's a reburn the whole thing. Change because
totally perfect change. What made him so hard to stop? Uh,
(22:54):
if you recall in this game, just his speed, this quickness,
his willingness to pass the basketball. He's very difficult to
stay in front, very cerebral player, understood the game. One
of the things that we did and most teams did
back then, was challenged him to shoot the basketball. He
wasn't a very good shooter at that point time. To
(23:17):
to all of his credit, he did a good job
of evolving as a player and developed that outside shot
later on in his career. But just his ability to
to penetrate defenses, stop on a dime, make inside shots,
those are all things that were very difficult. And you know,
we didn't have a great matchup for him. So if
(23:39):
our team defensive concept wasn't working well, we didn't have
somebody with the speed to stay up with him whenever
he got it going. And I think they did a
good job of putting him in situations to where he
could use his tremendous speed and uh, you know, getting
picks and getting his defender off of him and creating
(24:00):
space so that he could penetrate fine open books. The
Lakers are two for their last eight team and that's
why a sixteen point game has become a one point game.
Ronny Parker's to take the time out, Tony Parks or
at seen Duncan, who's been doing a whole lot in
(24:22):
the fourth quarter, and what was a sudden doing a
whole lot? Sometimes you do? Already looks so much fun
to watch. Um, we're gonna get down to the to
the nitty gritty, to the end of this. A sixteen
point game became a one point game. There's about thirty
seconds left and Derek Fisher's bringing the ball up the court.
He looks over at the bench, but Phil doesn't want
to time out. Derek Fisher look over at the bench.
(24:45):
A got a sixth set differ. Jackson will not call us.
How about he has up to a love t T
tricks to set up. This is gonna be picking roll
with Cody and you go to a Kobe and carmelone
pick and roll along coming up he sets it will
he gets a Rabbits probably puts it up, made it.
Lakers buy one of eleven and a half to go.
(25:06):
Kobe Bryant is tired, hadn't believable shot, but he walked
up the floor like he wanted to pass out. And
the only thing I can think of right now, because
Robert Oory is on the other two, he's out of
the other He's on the spurs right now. And you
know he even loved to get a shot. He wants
(25:27):
this picking rope. You can't give him the edge. He
had a great look at that one. To look at
him walk off the floor. And this is Phil Jackson's reaction.
I've seen a guy's chicaggle through that. I've been there before.
(25:50):
The guy has won nine titles, a tenth to break
a time with the Red Hour back. In fact, if
Phil Jackson wins a title, he will become the winning
ish champion, shift coach or manager in any of the
four major North American team sports. But back to the
strategy and with Phil, was that his approach to not
(26:10):
call timeouts in those moments or how to take us
into the to the mind of of you guys, him
the coaching staff circumstances like that, and in particular this one. Yeah,
he liked to show a lot of trust and faith
in his players that they were going to make the
right decision at that time. That was one concept of it.
Plus he he had already gone over you know what, uh,
(26:33):
in critical situations, what we would prefer to run. It
wasn't a huge wing screening role type of team, but
we knew to get into a wing screening roll at
that point in time, something that hadn't been run so
throughout the ball game. So it was going to be
something new and foreign for the Spurs to have to
deal with. And I think it was Malone that set
(26:57):
the pick form. So you're dealing with a player the
role and shoot the basketball with Kobe handling um. But
he also didn't like to have the other coach to
have an advantage if we call the time out to
make any substitutions or have their defense set. He just
preferred to always get into a flow whenever possible. So
(27:20):
that was his trust and faith in the and his
players to make the right decision, knowing what he wanted
at that point in time in the ball game. When
we come back, there are eleven seconds left in the game.
Isn't over yet? Eleven seconds up in this game, where
(27:47):
are they gonna go out? They're going to Tony Parker
and Tim Duncan and the picking role most likely or
straight to Duncan. Now, the other thing that Papa Bitch
has done with Tony Parker's is just that the floor
for him. I can't imagine not having your two best
players involved on this last play. So if I'm Phil Jackson,
I'm thinking pick and roll Tony Parker and Tim Duncan.
(28:10):
The other thing, the Lakers have a foul to give here,
not in the last two minutes, not over the limit.
So the Lakers can commit a foul without the Spurs
going in the free throw line. And that's good, that's
big at this point he be got. But the interesting
how much time the Lakers Let's go up the club
before they use it. So Kobe hits a shot with
(28:33):
eleven seconds left to give you guys a lead. Uh,
you have a foul to give at this point, Derek
Fisher commits the foul. It's only five seconds left. One
thing I will say, and then certain coaches can have
first things to take you extremely well, great Papa Bitch.
It's one of the better side out of bound coaches
in this league, and they're gonna draw up a heck
(28:54):
of a play here. This is This is when Tim Duncan,
uh Genobli gets and then the Duncan he gets doubled
hits the fade away will bound with just four tenths
of a second left. But you that last that last
offensive possession for you guys on the spur shot. Can
(29:14):
you remember just what what you guys were thinking or
what the approach was at that point. Well, obviously putting
the ball in your best player's hands, somebody that can
do multiple things that you know, we thought the ball
would go to Tim Duncan because you could shoot, he
could pass, he could attack the basket. There's a lot
of things that he could do with the ball. Plus
(29:35):
if he was guarded by Shack, there might be they
from their standpoint, feeling like they have an advantage so
that he can make decisions. Into the best of my memory,
having to guard somebody like you, nobly who inbounds the ball.
Now here's a guy who's quick and fast and does
a really good job of reading defenses that he could
(29:56):
have been a guy that cut off of Duncan to
re give a pass. But I think that they all
kind of collided into each other, or the guy it
was Kobe, so he's Shack, Duncan, Genoblie. They all kind
of crashed into each other. So now Duncan has to
make a decision because his option to get the bulk
(30:17):
back to Genobley wasn't there. To Duncan, he gets doubled,
Shack all over, he gets away, a fade away lelievable
who he's pressured to. He makes it outside. I remember
(30:43):
thinking during the ball game when he takes his turn
and he's fading away from the basket, the clock is
is taking down, and from my ankle I can see
him and the clock and the shot clock and and
Shack is all over. Shack's doing a gray job at
defending him. And when that ball went up, you can
see it almost as soon as it left his hand
(31:06):
that it was going to go in. And it's like,
no way, there's no way that boss going in. But
it's sure did uh. It was very disappointing. Obviously at
that point in time, you took at the fever that dybuck.
Now you know it's almost still building and getting what
(31:26):
Toby that's getting his fod you took at the pool
of rey Bell the lekers that taken just spends out
of the way and Tim Duncan's turned degree. They look
at this, they take away the hand off, Ducking has
nowhere to goes a fayaway jumps up off the wrong
(31:47):
LEGO ya amazing could have I truly felt like you
guys can have defended a better, uh amazing shot. So
so Duncan hits the shot and Doc rivers and Al
Michael's on the call for the game for a b
C and Doc mentions that four tenths of a second
is a lot different than three tents of a second
left in a game, because you actually can catch it
(32:07):
and shoot that that tents this huge because the three
tips not enough time to get a settle. It all
take of a second. You allone tick hits and suit
We're making you dig back into the memory bank hard.
And I'm not sure if you recall this, but do
you remember the play that Phil drew up in the
huddle for the last shot? You know? Not? Not really
(32:31):
I don't, because um, you want the players to be around.
This was how I thought of it as an assistant coach.
I want the players to see the play because if
something happens and he's got to throw somebody else in
the ball game on a substitution, you want them all
to know what's going on. But there was also a
sequence where we try and run one play and Pop
(32:54):
calls the time out and we're trying to bound the
ball and then we have to call time out. We
can't get it in. So now you're looking at the
third opportunity, and I think all of them were different.
So the Lakers, how he bounding, Gary Tayton will throw
it in. They're in a line. Coby's the third guy
(33:19):
in the line. They're trying to break and free. Robert
Ory just told the official we have a foul to give,
and the officials timeout spurs good time out over enough
and then a love the spurs to kind of see
what the Lakers want to do. I can tell you
(33:40):
what they're gonna do it. They're going to Kobe point
if they there's no flight. We didn't want to show
San Antonio the same look every single time because that's
what they were bracing for. Now. I like, with Greg
top of this, did what's Brobert or he knows that
he doesn't have the the guy out of bounce because
they don't have enough time they get it back to him.
So what they're doing, it's like in poo Well, they're
(34:01):
spaying Kobe Bryant. Robert Ory is just stacy. Wherever Kobe
Bryant is going, they're gonna deny him to catch. Listen,
they see those Portland highlights. They're not gonna low Kobe
Bryant to catch the ball. Great moves by great publicans.
So we were trying to get them, you know, to
see something different every time, but you know, not knowing
(34:23):
what the exact play was, it sure felt like it
was just a broken play and a complete ad lib
by Derek Fisher. Four tanks remaining in the fifth game.
Here they go, they get at Fisher. He stories stories
(34:50):
the buzzard. It will have to be reviewed, they'll review it.
And that I remember thinking, you know when he shot
the ball, that you know, Derrek had this long wind
up on his shot and he just kind of shot it,
you know, very quickly with little wind up. But the
angle I had just like I'm Tim Duncan shot. It's
(35:11):
like it's good, it's going in, it's got a chance.
You know, they'll review it. The Lakers are gonna run
to the dressing room and they'll trying to get on
the plane before the officials can get over to the
scorer's table. For good, We're gonna take a look at it.
But I gotta tell you love to look good. I
thought it did too, my goodnes Well, I had a feeling.
(35:31):
I was just gonna ask you. You know, everybody in
the world knows they're going after Brian. They're gonna try
and foul Brian. So do you go to somebody else?
Do you take a chance? Fixture, Here we go take
a look at this trying You can see him looking
telling fisture breaks open, starts. Yeah, he's good. Yeah, I
think it is good. With about a tenth of a second. Yeah,
(35:54):
it's it's so close, very close. What's the left has
to be out of his hands. Both it's out of
his as it's out of his hands. It's good. Although
he didn't seem very excited, Phil Jackson was honest about
his play calls after the game. We just had a
curl in a lob set up for Shack and we
had a step back or a curl on the other direction.
(36:17):
For Kobe and Fish and Carl were interchanging, and uh,
you know, Fish had the beneficiary of everybody focusing on Kobe.
I saw that the alignment was different, that the alignments
were similar in the first and the third with the
plays have been saying in the first and the third
as one, Yes, I just changed the actions, but they
were the same. And every instance was it going to
(36:37):
be some combination of Kobe curling out in shock for
a lob, but was always he almost have to go
for a lot in those situations, or at least threatened
for it. The inbound passer, Gary Payton, walked the media
through his decision making on the final play. Well, really,
you know, go and get a law. But it was
all you know, I knew they was gonna be looking
(36:58):
for Kobe shack and uh men, Fish had high contact
and fishes wide opening the first place where I called
it twenty, but it was too far off a pass
so and he was gonna shoot the three. So I
was so we when we went back in, I don't
even come to the ball. As soon as he came
to the ball off off Kobe's pick. When he when
he picked for Kobe, they tried to jump at Kobe
and I seen him wide open, and I looked at him,
(37:19):
gave it to him, and he turned around and he
just made it contact before the players. And I can't
think as he was coming. Yeah, he was coming. As
soon as he made the pick, he knew the pop.
He popped, and he popped, and he was wide open.
And then when he turned here he let it go.
I said that I got a chance of going in
and it went in a great difficult And when your
body women him is going one way, the hoops that way.
I mean he left handed, but he was left handed.
(37:40):
See he turned and when he when when you if
he was right ahead and we had to turn ower,
but he was coming that way, and he turned that
way and then went right down. A lot of wind
can went out of me, A lot of everything went out.
And uh no, I said, when we had a little time,
I thought that we had we got guys that can
make shots, you know, and if we get them open
and they get a good look, good looking, we'll go down.
(38:02):
And he was just hoping, you know. It was the
ass of prayer and prayer. Michelle Tafoya caught Shack before
he ran off the court, and he sums it up
in his way. Here's Michelle. Alright, I'm wished to killinea
because everybody else red into the locker room. Can you
describe those last point for me? You don't have a second.
What are you gonna call that fraction? One lucky shot
(38:24):
deserves another. And then when Derek's shot went in, we're
all excited, we're all elaid it. And then the Spurs
are just stunned. They're absolutely stunned that it went in.
And you know, from my angle again, it sure looked
like the shot got off in time. There was more
than enough time, you know, that the ball was out
(38:45):
of his hands that it was going to be good.
So when they went to replay, it just kind of
confirmed that thought. But I think even the Spurs felt
that that shot was good and they knew it, and
that's why they were so disappointed that that that it
went at. From Kurt's angle, it looked good, but it
looked a little different from Derek's point of view. Derek
(39:07):
talked to Jim Hill in the locker room. Actually, when
I first let it go, I felt like it was
a little longer, but I knew it was online. And
then as the ball got closer to the rim. I
knew it was going in and that's why I was
hot telling it out of here before the referees could
even look at the replay. I was, um, you know,
I stopped in the back to watch the local telecast
and make sure that they counted it. But I knew
(39:29):
I let it go fast enough, and fortunately the film
to tape show that because you were not the first
option though, no, never in that situation. You know, well,
you know, we all understand that. And that's the reality
of this business and of this team. Uh. That's what
Kobe Bryant and she Killed and Carl and Gary I've
done for their entire careers is hit big shots for
(39:49):
their teams. And but you know, guys like myself and
Devin George and the other guys on this team, uh,
we're a big part of what happens as well, and
it's important that other guys can step up to make
me plays and we did that tonight. So you weren't
surprised when the ball came to you. Um, not surprised.
I was. I was extremely open, and like I said,
Garry hit me with a passed that was perfect for
me to get a time and shooting only point for
(40:11):
you know, both of those shots were defended really well,
and both of those shots, uh, we'll go down in
history is a couple of the greatest shots in NBA history.
That we're meaningful shots and on some level lucky shots.
But when did look at him, but it really it
propelled us the rest of the series, and it just
(40:34):
took the wind out of the sale of the Spurs. Wellnessly,
for twenty years, I've never seen an ending like That's
that's off the shots, two unbelievable shots. I've never seen
anything like it ever to lead changing shots in the
last four tenths of a second, thinking about the fact
(40:55):
that it was Derek Fisher who hit the shining You
had a star star the team, but Derek Fisher had
the shot a role player instead of one of the superstars.
Did that make the moment even more special? Yeah, obviously
for him. Michelle Tafoya got Derek Fisher back on the
cord for a couple of questions on his final shot. Yeah,
(41:16):
with Derek Fisher, we gotta get him because this man
is in hi demand. Talk about the design on that
last play, Well, most most times the play is not
for me, even though I can make shots most of
the time, we're going to Kobe and shot automatically, but
they covered those two guys. I came open, Garrett gave
me a great pass and turn the shot. Tell me
how the moment felt, because, as our guys just explained,
(41:37):
you lost your starting Tom Malone is here giving you
quite the quite the back out on the back, but
you had lost your starting job. Yeah, this this is special.
I mean, we got almost game, this game away, and uh,
I think the night's game is so indicative of how
our whole season that's gone. We look great at times,
we've looked more at times, but we've hung in. Everybody's
(41:57):
had adversity individually collectively, and this is just a great
win for our team and organization. You know, it's hard
to describe the way that this bench erupted, the way
that every player upted, especially after watching those replays. Can
you talk about what that like or locker room is like?
Right now? Well, that's the only way we can win
on the road. We need everybody to contribute. Shaq was
big even though he was in foul trouble. Kobe played solid.
Everybody just gave we think a give Devin George deserves
(42:19):
a lot of credit tonight, we just can't fighting the show.
Congratulations to you guys. But you know, when you're looking
at what pop did, he put the inbound er who
was defending the inbounder, and I think it I think
that was Peyton if I'm not mistaken, but he's uh.
He takes his man and he goes to Kobe because
(42:41):
that's who he believes phil his diagram to play for
to get him the opportunity to shoot the basketball, because
even if you throw it in, you can't throw it
back to the inbound or there's not enough time. So
whoever caught the ball was gonna have to shoot it.
So if if the play wasn't diagrams specific quickly for
Derek Fisher, than he did a great job of that
(43:03):
living But that's what we had to do at that
point time. I don't I don't think we had any
more time out, So somebody had to make a decision,
and Derek Fisher had to make a decision on just
getting himself open. At that point in time, Kobe was
guarded by Gary Payton's man, so he was double teamed
and and he was trying to get open Kobe was,
(43:27):
but he made an interesting decision was to go more
towards the half court line. He reversed his course to
the best of my memory. But going away from the
basket is not the way you would want to go
with four tents of a second, because it's going to
take a long time to to get up a shot
longer than four tenths of a second. I thought Derek
(43:47):
did a good job going to his left hand where
he could get the ball and kind of almost push
it up to the basket. It wasn't his traditional shot,
but he did get it off on time. But it
was just a good, good read and necessary read. It
was something that absolutely had to happen at that point
in time, and we just got very fortunate that it
(44:08):
went in. And he knew it was good too. He
ran right off the court. He ran right past his
teammates as he get on the plane us get out
of here. But he knew it was good. I stayed
out on the court to make sure that, you know,
after the referees looked at the replay too, signified that
it was a good basket. But Derek felt it was good.
(44:30):
He was gone. I don't know what we were going
to do if we called it, he was probably already
in the shower by then. Cur you said it, you
see Derek, all the players they just ran straight the
locker room. What was the locker room scene like after
that one? It was, you know, everybody was so happy
when you think of the swing in emotion from Duncan
(44:54):
shot to Derek shot in that relative short period of time,
from disappointment to elation, and the significance of a Game
five victory like that after the series is tied to
two and winning in San Antonio going back home, it
is just everybody was not only elated but relieved that
(45:14):
we came up with a win too. So it was
a lot of jumping up and down, a lot of
high fiving and hugging because that was a huge ball
game for us. Well, it's a special special moment, I know,
for all of us uh in NBA history, and one
that's so so much fun to relive and to go
back on. So we can't thank you enough for your
time and then sharing some of your memories with us.
(45:36):
Thank you, my pleasure. I'm surprised that I remembered half
of that stuff. The brilliance, brilliance, take care of Kurt
Derek talked about how the shot changed his life a
few years later. Yeah, I mean, you know, that was
just a moment in time that you know, we'll live
on forever. And I don't even think I understood it.
You know, when it happened, I knew it was a
(45:57):
big shot. And then you obviously tell about my reaction now,
uh that I was excited, but I don't think I
really understood the magnitude of you know, how much more
visibility would bring to me individually. You know, there are
so many fans that you know, they love basketball, they
watch the NBA, but you know they're not watching every moment,
every play in this place like that. You know that,
(46:18):
you know, the average person that probably wouldn't even recognize you,
they don't even know my name, but they know me
as point four. You know. That's so that's that's the
that's the only thing that you know connects us as people.
And so it's a fun thing, you know for people
to if they remember anything about my career, that that
that one shot will probably last forever. You just throwing off. Yeah,
that was an old you know, little rock high school thing. Um,
(46:41):
you know, you win a game on the road, you know,
the last second shot. You got to get on that
bus and the high tailer out of there before something
bad happens to you. So I was just something that
I learned, you know, years ago. NBA Flashback is a
production of I Heart Radio and the NBA. For more
podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
(47:01):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. M
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