January 10, 2022 • 37 mins
Hosted by Sarah Kustok, NBA Flashback is the podcast that takes you back to the best moments in NBA history through exclusive archival audio from the NBA vault, along with new interviews with the players and coaches who were in the building.
In this episode of NBA Flashback we go back to Feb. 3rd, 1987 and relive the night Dominique Wilkins scored 54 points and the Atlanta Hawks beat the defending NBA champion Boston Celtics in overtime at the Omni in Atlanta. We talk with Dominique and his long-time coach with the Hawks, Mike Fratello, about the intense rivalry with the Celtics, defending Larry Bird and Kevin McHale, how this might be the best game that Nique has ever played, and what made the 80's Hawks teams so special.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
NBA Flashback is a production of iHeart Radio in the
NBA comins a band anticipate Dominynique Wilkins out of nowhere
is blocked by Dominique Wilkins two on one. Come on,
(00:25):
Richard that damn I don't know how I do that comminate,
but that kiss off the top of the glass. He's
got the ability now to take the blow Dominique Wilkins
and still make the shot count double team in me.
You think I will get the ball up? Watch this
(00:47):
the dirty work inside done by guess who, the Human
Highlights Film, Dominique Wilkins and absolute lead gend And we
are lucky to have the Human Highlight Film with us
today for this show. I'm sarahcu Stock and you're listening
(01:10):
to NBA Flashback, the show that takes you back to
the greatest moments in NBA history, using archival audio from
the NBA as well as new interviews with the players
and coaches who were in the building. In this episode,
we go back to when the mullet was first a
(01:31):
popular hairstyle. The Cosby Show in a Different World were
the biggest shows in America, and Debbie Gibson and Tiffany
were battling it out in shopping malls for the hearts
and minds of teenagers across the country. We are talking
with nine time All Star Hall of Famer the Human
(01:51):
Highlight Film Dominique Wilkins and his longtime coach with the Hawks,
six NBA Coach of the Year, the czar the tellustrator
Mike for Tello, about a game where Nick dropped fifty
four points in an overtime win over the Boston Celtics.
Much like Debbie Gibson and Tiffany, the Hawks and the
Celtics had an intense rivalry during the eighties and this
(02:13):
game brought out the best in two great teams on
an early February night thirty five years ago in Atlanta.
And for me, this was an extremely special episode. Dominique
was one of my old time favorite players. Despite growing
up in the South Side of Chicago. The Human Highlight
Film was a role model to me. I wore number
(02:35):
twenty one when I was playing into Paul because of him,
and of course Mike for Tello, the coach. I had
the great fortune to work with him throughout the course
of my professional career. And these two individuals that only
are brilliant basketball minds, but amazing people. This is a
fun one. Get ready another night of NBA basketball, this
time from the Omni in Atlanta. We're a capacity crowd
(02:57):
of sixteen thousand, five hundred is gathering to watch the
Atlanta Hawks take on one of, if not the best
team in basketball, the Boston Celtics. From the season series,
Boston has one two of the three previous games. The
one they lost was here in the Omni. Skip Kerry
and Bill Russell. Yes that Bill Russell had the call
(03:18):
for TBS. Well, you're a former Shell, I think you
can root for them. I'm a former hawkner. I'll root
for them. Well, I don't think either of these teams
really made us rooting for them. I get right. Dominique,
coach for Tella, thank you so much for being here
with us and and flashing back to to one of
the great memories. There's a lot of them, Nique, but
one of the great memories of your performance. Oh man,
(03:41):
There's been a lot of them, man. And you know
some of those games that we played, you know, with
Boston against Boston was epic, epic battles and you know,
to this day, I mean it's like it was yesterday. Yeah, well,
let's go back, because I know both of you remember
so many moments throughout the course of your legendary careers.
(04:01):
February three, you guys come into this game and the
Celtics were the defending NBA champs. You would just lost
to them in the previous season during the playoffs, the
Eastern Conference semifinals. When you come into a game like this, Dominique,
I'm gonna start with you, what what was your mindset
um and just the motivation given what had happened in
(04:22):
the previous playoffs. Well, one of the things, when you know,
we walked in the building right before the game, you
saw the stands and it was filled with Celtics green.
That right there set me off and it kind of
motivated me to be even more ready to play. So
I said to myself, I remember that game in Viglan.
(04:45):
I said, not tonight, It's not gonna be there night tonight.
And so I was on a mission to to beat them.
You know, if I had to do a single handling,
I mean, that was just my mentality that night. And
you know, sometimes an op for it, you know, when
you're gonna have a big night and that was one
of the nights that I knew I would have. I
didn't know I wasn have that big of a night.
(05:07):
Gonna have a big man the coach, What about for you?
I know you're meticulous in your preparation, but was there
anything special going into the prep for a game like
that evening? The fact that we had just started to
come back together again, for me was a concern here.
We had no women that night, no spot, no Mike McGee,
(05:29):
so the three guards were out. We had signed Gus Williams,
which Gus was up there in age at that time,
but we felt we just had to have somebody that
had a little experience I could get the ball down
court if we needed it during the course of the game.
And we had started out great that season eighteen and
four start, and then the injury set in and we
(05:52):
went through a terrible stretch and we're just you know,
starting to come back and put the pieces back together again.
And Nique Wood into that game with a bad back. Actually,
on the other hand, goes like this, Dominic Wilkins as
a little back problem, but he's going to give it
a world to night. What they are learning as a
(06:12):
young team is that because the NBA schedule is like
a war there world, big casualties and you have to
go buy the cansaties and keep on going. Did not
have the greatest of starts, in the fact, if I remember,
he did not score a basket in the second quarter
of that game. So to look at the end and
then go back and said, wait a minute, this guy
didn't have a bucket second quarter. But look what we
(06:34):
wound up with. And we gave John Battle to start
that night because of those other guys being out and
and John Battle was just terrific that night for us
as the starting guard. Great fake by Battle, I got
the basket, he's two out of two and at six
to lat on top of uh and had two or
three other shots that went halfway down and came out
(06:54):
for him. But he wound up with nineteen in that game.
So I just remember going in and with lost two
games to them. We had beaten him one time, but
I didn't know if we were back whole enough to
really battle that team. Because you think about the Hall
of famers that were on the Celtics team at that
at that time, Bird McHale, Parish frontline, Dennis Johnson age
(07:18):
in the back court, It's like wow, But what we
had was youth and energy and we had Dominique. Yeah, well,
coach you mentioned that. I mean, what does the scouting
report look like for trying to defend There's a long
list of them, but in particular Bird and Michale. What
is it like trying to figure out slowing those two
individuals down? Well, as Nick knows, probably one of the
(07:41):
biggest mistakes that I haven't made that next when we
played them in that great second uh seven game series,
we did not want to give up the three point line.
That was the thing that would beat us, and we
tried to stay home as much as possible. And what
I did, I asked Nick to be our star at
the offense and end of the floor, and at the
same time I played him the majority of his minutes
(08:04):
at the defensive end against Larry Bird. No, for Larry Bird,
Covin willis the river out ahead, the nominating He's got
battle with him. He takes him to and we were
trying not to double team because we didn't want to
give up the three point line. Meanwhile, the Celtics took
Larry Bird and put him on Tree Rollins because they
(08:26):
didn't want Nick going at Bird because they knew that
Larry would have a difficult time guarding Nique. So that
cross matching hurt us a couple of times in transition.
But we did some things during the course of this
game that we're talking about, where we went and doubled
guys only got the ball out of their hands, and
we were willing to live with the results. Yeah, Nick,
(08:48):
let's go back to the back issue that you were
dealing with. Coach for Hello, just telling us before we
get started, you played three or six or five days
a year if you could. But but do you remember
that you remember an impact like that. Yeah. I was
banged up going into that game, and Mike and I
had talked about if I was going to play in
that game or not. So we just we kind of decided, Okay,
(09:09):
I said, you know, I'm good to go. I'm gonna play.
And then, like I said, you know, I got energized
once the right right before the game started when I
saw the fans that's going nuts, and it wasn't necessarily
half fan at that time, and so I said, you
know what, I just I get through this first quarter.
I'm gonna be fine. I said, I'm gonna have a
big night one way or other, because that was just
(09:29):
my mentality. Like Mike said, John Battle had a terrific game,
really played well on both ends of the floor. He's
got sex, he's up to a sitter stary. Yeah, we'll
have only a lot of points for free. God. You know,
(09:50):
we all kind of came together in the game, like
said Randy Whitman was out along with some other guys
like you said Mike mcge So it was that next
man up mentality. And I said, I could have never
had the game that I had if it wasn't for
doctors and those guys man really finding a way to
find my number. So it was that's a total team effort. Uh.
Coach Hotelo talked about some of the matchups, and there
(10:12):
was a call in this game that was talking about
a dunk you had, and you had a lot earlier,
but nobody told about the slam dunk contest isn't until Saturday,
but but no one told Dominique. You had some nasty
(10:34):
jams on Larry Bird and Robert Parish. And that's where
they're real great three person when you speak about the
atmosphere and just sending a message. I know that was
characteristic of how you typically played, but take us inside
(10:55):
those type of moments, well, it was electric. I mean,
when you're playing against some greet the players to ever
played this game, you got to be able to really
match their intensity and play to their level, and in
a lot of cases you gotta play above that level,
especially when you're going against a team to have four
or five Hall of Famers one team, like Mike said,
(11:15):
the atmosphere was absolutely, I mean crazy. It was, like
I said, electric in the building. It's set up for
a great game for both teams, and it just came
down to who was gonna execute at the end of games. Unfortunately,
we was able to do a really nice job at
the end of the game to pull it off an overtime.
So at the end of the first quarter, you guys
(11:36):
were down by three points, it was seven. Celtics coach Fatello.
Larry Bird was having a little bit of an off
night early on, but Michale was really dominant in the paint.
Micale he has sixteen lead's all scores Welcome which has fourteen.
(11:58):
I think mccare maybe one of the the top three most
difficult guys to guard in the league. He's got seven
forty seven winnspat for our young listeners, for those who
are used to seeing him on on nv A, TV
or on the sidelines and didn't get a chance to
really understand the type of player that he was. Can
(12:19):
you describe for us paying a picture of what made
him so effective, so dominant, and so tough to tough
to guard. I think the biggest thing we need to
point out to the young viewers and listeners is they
may not remember there was a thing called illegal defense
way back when that you had to set your defense
(12:40):
up based on where the offensive players were placed. So
basically they tried to turn it into a three on
three games. So if you took two of your players
and put them above the top of the circle, their
defensive guys had to be above the fat line. Boston,
they would put McHale in a low post. They put
(13:01):
a wing on that side like an angel who could
shoot threes or larry bird and enter the ball into
McHale and if you're fronted him, they'd lob it over
the top to those long arms of his and the
defensive guys couldn't get there in time. On the back line,
they couldn't get from the foul line down there quick
enough to get get ahold of it. So they played
(13:22):
to that strength and they played to the rules extremely well.
So now when you played behind Kevin McHale, he's catching
the basketball basically eight feet away from the basket, he's
spitting into that left shoulder, shooting the jump hook with
those long arms, or he's fading to the right show
the baseline fade away. And that's what made him so
(13:43):
tough in traffic. What shot up the two are right
now if you go to double team him and he's
passing over the top, and now they've got numbers on you,
and it opens up the three point game for them.
So the guy playing against him much of the time
(14:03):
was Kevin Willis, who had an incredible game. He had
eighteen points and one rebounds in that game, but Kevin
fouled out at the end of the game because he
was trying to guard and be very physical with Kevin McHale.
Kevin McHale is the master of footwork, low post moves
back in those days, and so many people have copied
(14:24):
them over the years. Coach, you mentioned Kevin Willis, you
had him tree Rollins, you come away with twenty three
offensive rebounds to drop, but another offensive Rayboond Let's till us.
That is what's keeping Atlanta in this game, and they're
very much in it. How much was that a characteristic
of the way you guys played, how you want to
(14:46):
attack them? Just missed shots of you? What what aspects
and significance did that play in this one? That's what
we were all about. We were young, We were very excitable.
You talk about nowadays people checking pace and tempo with
the games. Tell him to watch that game and watch
how these guys got up and down the floor. Between
(15:06):
Nick and John Battle running the wings, Doc Rivers the
big locomotive, pushing that thing down the floor in the middle.
And when we used to have Spud, he was coming
at you faster than Doc was, so we could change ends.
And then I had often said one of our best
offenses was just shooting on the glass and go get it,
and then our second and third shots would be the
(15:27):
most effective parts of our game. The smaller an all
along John Battle won't go fire. I'm a tough shot starter,
and that's what we could do. In the Celtics understood
that we were quicker, we were more athletic, and the
(15:48):
thing we didn't have was the experience that they had
in these big game type of things, and that's why
we came out in that first quarter. We we were
not our best. We missed a lot of free throws
in the beginning of the game, but that's because we
were young and excitable and we wanted to beat them
so badly. But then eventually, you know, we were down
seven at the half, fifty one coming up. It's halftime,
(16:12):
and an average regular season game is about to turn
into a classic. A lot of still very much Nick,
What was coach for tell like in a halftime locker room,
you guys down by seven, take us inside. You know
(16:34):
I say this all the time, and I didn't realize it,
did I said, Mica is the most underrated coach in
the history of this game, because I've never seen a
guy who can take a play that we've never ran.
And if you listened to him after he kind of
maps it out what he wants you to do on
the floor. If you listen to what he's saying nine
times opportune, you're gonna get an open shot and you're
(16:56):
gonna get a well executed play. He was tough in
the locker room, no question about. Mike was tough in
the lock room. But Mike was all about the X
and os. Execute, execute, execute, if you're willing to listen,
work hard, being able to change ins on the dcause
A lot of times our defense generated an easy offense
for us. I mean, we primarily concentrated on our defense.
(17:18):
We knew we could score, but defense was our bread
and butther as a team and Mike Man we used
to call in the little general. It's like he would
come and he would get in your face and say, hell,
this is what I need done. But the thing that
I realized that how important he was for me. I've
never had another coach after that, another coach like him
(17:39):
after that, that good, that precise and that and really
understood the game in every aspect, you know. So I
didn't know what I had there, but I just appreciate
how he got us ready to play each and every night,
especially in the Eastern Conference. Man Eastern Conference was a monster,
(18:00):
and so you had to be ready to go every
night and min with that motivating force. Nick, thank you
appreciate that. It's true. Sarah. Let me say this, Well,
while we're in this part of it that I've said
many times since I stopped coaching, They say, what are
some of the things you miss and look back on?
And I always say, I look back and now realized
(18:22):
the greatness of the player I had number twenty one,
and realize any of those ws that were next to
my name, that guy was responsible for. We may had
a couple of guys chip in for a percentage or two,
but this guy was the guy. And I always felt
that way after after the fact, I truly appreciated how
(18:44):
great his greatness was and and I was special. Thank you, Mike,
I appreciate that. Bring back a lot of memories. Bring
back a lot of memories. Man, we we had a
lot of fun, had a lot of fun. With that
being said, in the memories, I mean, can you just
describe what this rivalry was like with the Celtics. I mean,
there was times where you guys are getting chippy and
(19:07):
and Nick, I don't know if you remember. There was
a point here you and Greg Kite at the end
of the third quarter. I had a little bit of
a moment. But but do you remember that. I remember,
and Mike you might not remember because you know then
heated the battle on Mike was trying to get people
a position to you know, you're ready to play. But
I remember into the towards the in the third quarter
before Mike took me out of the game for for
(19:29):
a rest, suck suckings in the quarter. Oh, you're not
gonna sure if they get a creditor that I remember
when I have a court Larry Bird, Kevin Willison myself,
and I remember Kevin reaches across me and puts his
finger in Larry but he said, don't let this show
(19:50):
was so scool any more to night. And I looked
at Kevin, I'm like, what the hell are you're doing?
You don't wait and sleeping giant, I don't wear there.
They brought each game after three start with us no
dominant welcomes pointing at Greg right, they almost hard to
go out of the end of three Celtic City suck
(20:11):
ups want and it opened up that great fourth quarter
that we had. Man that was coach didn't feel personal.
I mean, you think about Nick, I know you you
lost to the Celtics six in the playoffs and and
without you know, so many different moments and and things
(20:31):
that you experienced in terms of rivalries in the league,
but with the Celtics in particular, and coach you you first,
did you feel this? Did you feel the intensity of
this rivalry every time that you guys stepped on the court, Sarah?
Did I feel it? Let me let me remember. Do
you happen to remember, Nique? The game up in Boston
(20:53):
Garden when I got carried out by the security guys,
when that the fan came out of the stands. I
saw a fan comes out of the stands. Never forget.
We were running the last shot of the quarter. The
clock was down under twenty seconds, and I I walked
towards half court to yell to Doc that we wanted
to run to get the last shot of the quarter.
(21:16):
And somebody behind me starts cursing at me, and I'm
I mean, like cursing at me. And I turned around
a look, and it's a gentleman that used to sit
in the chair all by himself, and he might have
been a hundred and ten years old ball I knew,
but out of respect for him, I just kind of
looked and said, what do you what do you doing
that you don't even belong here in this chair. Next
(21:38):
thing I know, a guy comes running out of the
stands at me and I turned around and I nailed
him good. Nico. I remember I got him good, and
I'm upside down being carried out of the arena and
by the security guys in Boston. So, Sarah, you want
to ask that question again to you physically, this is
(22:01):
not literally physically. I was carried out down a steps
and through the middle out into the hallway. I remember
that because I was telling you, guys, don't go into stands. Man.
We were in the Boston Garden. Don't go into stands. Yeah.
I remember them carrying Mike out of the out arenam
and and that that game with Man, and you didn't
know what was gonna happen because it was it was
so much attention and kind of like a pandemonium on
(22:25):
the floor. I mean, people were like, I mean that
that that that was one of the most rowdy fans
I've ever experienced during my time of playing basketball. But
it was it was funny, it was fun. But we
didn't have Mike, we didn't have They carry them out
pretty early. If we're talking about the carrying out, I
need one more memory back to eighty three now, the
(22:46):
Angel and Tree rollins Man didn't bring that one up.
Do you remember that is there? Is there? When it happened? Um,
you know what what happened? You know again it was
a feisty game, you know, Angel and Treat. I don't
know they had this thing. You know, they really hated
each other. I think we all hated Angel at that
(23:07):
time because he was such a pest. But the Angel
would come around the screen and Tree would try to
screen him and he would jab Tree in his ribs,
and Tree up said, look, rough, to keep doing this.
You know, it's something bad gonna happened. So he did
it like three times. So the third time he's coming
around the screen, Tree took his elbow and caught Danny
(23:28):
Ainge square in his face. Almost I thought he took
his head off. Men, he hit him that hard. And
so when they were on the floor, Danny Ainge went
for trees legs and then they hit the floor and
everybody was down on the pile. Everybody down on the pile.
And I remember he tried to poe Tree in the eye,
and Treat caught his finger and almost bit his finger off.
(23:51):
You know, hilp with bid his finger off, and they
asked him why did he bite him. He said, well,
everything outside my mouth belonging to him, everything inside belongs
to me. I mean they had to sole his finger
almost back on. Yeah, it was an interesting time back then, unbelievable.
All right, I'm gonna have you take us back to
the start of the fourth quarter. Uh and the third quarter.
(24:14):
You guys are down by five Dominique. At this point
you have twenty four points. But you guys get rolling
to start that fourth quarter. You're crowds d almost water.
We're tied. The crowd is going crazy. Nick. I know
(24:44):
you've already mentioned just the feel in the atmosphere inside
the arena, but the electricity of a closing period. Literally,
we know we'd have some extra basketball to go along
with it. But what what was it about that crowd
and about the arena and about that field that made
it unique and different. Our whole thing was that keep
(25:05):
the game close against the Celtics, because you could Celtic
is one of the teams that you couldn't make mistakes.
If you made mistakes, they capitalize off your mistakes, So
you try to minimize that and just compete on the
same level that that they could be there. We've always
played the Celtics in great games. We always had great
games against them, but it always came down to that
(25:26):
fourth quarter that really told the difference, especially late in
the fourth quarter, and there was a team that was
great at executing, you know, at the end of games
possible a far we're staying at all, right, you had
(25:48):
thirty points, which just over five minutes left in regulation.
Did your mindset change regularly in crunch time, knowing when
it's something something clicks, when it's it's close out time. Yeah, me,
I mean yeah, it pretty much with the same, except
for you didn't want to make mistakes or take bad
shots at that point of the game, you know, because
(26:09):
the Celtics again, if you if you took bad shots,
you made mistakes. Man, they were coming back at you
another end. They were They had one of the most
probably the smartest veteran crew of guys that was playing
basketball during that time. I mean, they had all guys
with high basketball i Q. And they found ways to
beat you. Coming up we head down the stretch in
(26:34):
Atlanta is Dominique duels with Bird and Micaal coach. So
(26:55):
we're really making you. You just think back in the
memory bank. But seconds left in regulation. You guys were
down by two, you call a time out, huddle up.
Do you know what you called on that huddle? Well,
if I was smart, I'd call Nick's number. Yes, you
go es, you go ESO. Nick got Kevin McHale shot
(27:18):
the time I on the front car, seconds left and uh,
just as the double team starts to come, Nick pulls
up shoots over McHale. Nick, what do you remember about
this play? Coach? What do you remember about this play?
So it was that the half hook half jump shot.
There was a lot of arc, There was a lot.
(27:40):
It was that shot in the corner. I think it
was on the It was on the right side, and
it was in the court and I waved them off
the clear and Kevin McHale, I mean, they never really
let bird guard me. You know, I had to chase
someone the other end, but Kevin McHale would guard me defensively,
and you know he gave me just a little room.
You know, after I got into my drip where he
(28:02):
backed up a little bit, said this this is why
I'm gonna rise up on him. So once that window
opened up for me, I was gonna let it fly.
You know, winner lose, make it a miss. I was
gonna let the shot go and the unfortunately it went in.
That's pretty good guy to have. What's the ball, let's
(28:23):
her welcome? Seven. You shot that one a little bit higher,
Nick than you normally had to because of those little arms. Yeah.
I had to me. Yeah, you're right, Mike, he was
so long that I don't arc my shot that high.
But when you got a guy with that type of
length coming at you, you know you gotta put a
(28:44):
little more on it. Yeah, So tie game, Nick, You
had eighteen of the Hawks, thirty points in the fourth quarter,
thirty one points in the second half. Celtics call a
time out eighteen seconds left. Do you remember what you're
telling your guys, telling your team on that final offensive
possession or just how you go about approaching things at
that point. And one of the things we had talked
(29:06):
about because Kevin McHale was man, he was dominant, and
we wanted to get the ball out of his hands,
and so, you know, we end up doing that and
they end up taking a tough shot. I think it
was age was age shot and yeah, yep, exactly. We
did get it out of his hands and it wound
up with ange shooting the open shot and he missed,
missed the shot, couldn't yep, said the time overtime and
(29:36):
that took the game into overtime. Yes, yeah, and you
guys came out aggressive out of overtime. You take a
quick six point lead. I think it was and Nique.
At this point you had forty nine points thirty five
since halftime. You got a strip on levery bird, great
passed by River wanted what are you thinking here with it?
(30:08):
You talked about giving yourself an opportunity to close things out. Well,
now here you are in overtime and you jump out
with a quick lead. Where is your mindset with this?
This young, scrappy team, this athletic team that you guys have,
excitable what's the mindset here at this point? You know,
because we had so much youth, you know, the key
was too and that overtime was to have some defensive
(30:30):
stops early in the quarter to give ourselves a chance
to win. And we did. I thought we'd played great
team defense that gave us a chance to get out
to get a couple of easy buckets. In that overtime.
They didn't score until like the three minute and twenty
second mark. To Celtics in the overtime. That's who the
defense Nick was talking about. But I think with about
(30:52):
thirty five seconds to go, Nick made an incredible shot
and I was referring to it before when I said
it was like kind of a half jump shot, half
jump hook, and he may have gotten fouled on it.
Can against Wilton, what a match up. They go one
on one, the zone is clear. I'm a name. What
(31:15):
a shot. He's got a trusting one point. He had
fourteen and half to them. They weren't sure he was
gonna play it because it's black words. That's a good
way to trick your back out. That's it there, that's shot.
He got it. He's got fifty two Boston clost I
(31:37):
line up by far with seven teen seconds for Nannic.
Would not happened better for atlant I could Boston come back,
We'll see after that. But you know, if Boston was
a team that was gonna keep coming. So it came
down to the last shot for them to try to
tie it to go into a second overtime. But I
thought early we hit them early in that overtime quarter
(31:59):
where we was able to get out front and uh,
finally win the game for friend. No, we'll not. It's
Crowder doesn't matter over time as a fry the great
great basketball to final? What did you like about your
(32:26):
matchup with We've talked a lot about you matching up
with Michale and going I against Kevin McHale. What did
you like about that matchup when you had the ball
in your hands. I loved playing against the Celtics because
they brought out the best in you, and you had
guys like Kevin McAll and Larry burg Paris that big,
huge front line. It made it made it fun to
(32:47):
play against a team like that. But when you play
against the best big men in the league, some of
the best big men in the league, you couldn't help
but wanting to play at your best and really show
the basketball world that you belong. And my whole thing
was showing them that was just as good as anybody.
And so that was a great test to making people
understand the basketball. We'll understand that I was more than
(33:09):
des an athlete. I was more than just a dunker.
I was a basketball player. Nick, how would you characterize
this performance in this game? For you? Because you've had
bigger scoring nights, but the the idea that it was
against the Celtics. It was every single point that you
scored was needed. How do you put this in how
(33:30):
do you put this in perspective? I mean, yeah, I've
had games that I don't know if they were bigger.
I think that you have some games that was equally important,
but that game was big for this reason. You're going
against probably the one of the greatest front lines in
the history of basketball. And to score like that against
the front line, like against a basketball team like that,
(33:52):
I mean, it shows you how far you've come as
a player. But also you know, when you play that way,
to respect you you get from your opponents and I
got I mean even though Larry Brandon I never talked,
never to your hands, we respected each other. Michail Parish,
all of us respected each other, and they knew, you know,
every night that we played against one another that it's
(34:14):
not gonna be an easy night one side or the other.
So you know, the Celtics matchups man my favorite of
all times. So later the season, speaking to that, you
lost to the Pistons in the playoffs. The next year,
you lost to the Celtics in that Epics seven game series.
But your Hawks teams. They were so much fun to watch.
I personally, I loved every bit of it. I told you,
(34:37):
I've told you before. Number one, I'm more number twenty
one because Dominique Wilkins, how would you describe the eighties Hawks?
The eighties Hawks some of the greatest teams, It's not
the greatest teams, especially a year we won fifty seven
that the Hawks have ever had, you know, because of
the era we've played in the physicality and how good
(35:00):
a lot of these teams in the East world for
us to win fifty seven games and that year was
a monumental feat and as a testament to our hard
work and how you know we was prepared. Now. Mike
got us ready to go each and every night. So, uh,
that was big for us because that's when the basketball
world noticed that, hey, these Hawks are for real, and
(35:23):
so our ponies knew what we brought to the table.
They knew that they knew that we were gonna come
every night and play hard. Coach for Tello, Dominique will
gets you to our legends. I cannot thank you enough
for sharing these moments and these memories, ones that we
certainly appreciate. And UH is your time now in your
time always, UM, thank you it really, it really is
(35:46):
so special to all of us. Thank you, seron. Thanks.
And I just want to say to Mike before we go, man,
I you know I really missed you and appreciate everything
you've done for me in my career. Man and I
often talked about it. You know, it's not a year
that goes. I don't really talk about how special that
relationship was and still is to this day. And so Man,
I love you and I appreciate you guys having me
(36:08):
on Sarah. About ten feet away from where I'm sitting
right there was Dominique's jersey hanging on my wall and
it's been in that hanging position for years and years
with a light over the top of it because it
should shine on him. That's how I felt about him.
A special friendship, special coach and man. And hopefully we
can continue to go together be around for a long time.
(36:31):
I know you're a lot older than me, but that's okay.
NBA Flashback is a production of I Heart Radio and
the NBA. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
NBA Flashback is a production of iHeart Radio in the
NBA comins a band anticipate Dominynique Wilkins out of nowhere
is blocked by Dominique Wilkins two on one. Come on,
(00:25):
Richard that damn I don't know how I do that comminate,
but that kiss off the top of the glass. He's
got the ability now to take the blow Dominique Wilkins
and still make the shot count double team in me.
You think I will get the ball up? Watch this
(00:47):
the dirty work inside done by guess who, the Human
Highlights Film, Dominique Wilkins and absolute lead gend And we
are lucky to have the Human Highlight Film with us
today for this show. I'm sarahcu Stock and you're listening
(01:10):
to NBA Flashback, the show that takes you back to
the greatest moments in NBA history, using archival audio from
the NBA as well as new interviews with the players
and coaches who were in the building. In this episode,
we go back to when the mullet was first a
(01:31):
popular hairstyle. The Cosby Show in a Different World were
the biggest shows in America, and Debbie Gibson and Tiffany
were battling it out in shopping malls for the hearts
and minds of teenagers across the country. We are talking
with nine time All Star Hall of Famer the Human
(01:51):
Highlight Film Dominique Wilkins and his longtime coach with the Hawks,
six NBA Coach of the Year, the czar the tellustrator
Mike for Tello, about a game where Nick dropped fifty
four points in an overtime win over the Boston Celtics.
Much like Debbie Gibson and Tiffany, the Hawks and the
Celtics had an intense rivalry during the eighties and this
(02:13):
game brought out the best in two great teams on
an early February night thirty five years ago in Atlanta.
And for me, this was an extremely special episode. Dominique
was one of my old time favorite players. Despite growing
up in the South Side of Chicago. The Human Highlight
Film was a role model to me. I wore number
(02:35):
twenty one when I was playing into Paul because of him,
and of course Mike for Tello, the coach. I had
the great fortune to work with him throughout the course
of my professional career. And these two individuals that only
are brilliant basketball minds, but amazing people. This is a
fun one. Get ready another night of NBA basketball, this
time from the Omni in Atlanta. We're a capacity crowd
(02:57):
of sixteen thousand, five hundred is gathering to watch the
Atlanta Hawks take on one of, if not the best
team in basketball, the Boston Celtics. From the season series,
Boston has one two of the three previous games. The
one they lost was here in the Omni. Skip Kerry
and Bill Russell. Yes that Bill Russell had the call
(03:18):
for TBS. Well, you're a former Shell, I think you
can root for them. I'm a former hawkner. I'll root
for them. Well, I don't think either of these teams
really made us rooting for them. I get right. Dominique,
coach for Tella, thank you so much for being here
with us and and flashing back to to one of
the great memories. There's a lot of them, Nique, but
one of the great memories of your performance. Oh man,
(03:41):
There's been a lot of them, man. And you know
some of those games that we played, you know, with
Boston against Boston was epic, epic battles and you know,
to this day, I mean it's like it was yesterday. Yeah, well,
let's go back, because I know both of you remember
so many moments throughout the course of your legendary careers.
(04:01):
February three, you guys come into this game and the
Celtics were the defending NBA champs. You would just lost
to them in the previous season during the playoffs, the
Eastern Conference semifinals. When you come into a game like this, Dominique,
I'm gonna start with you, what what was your mindset
um and just the motivation given what had happened in
(04:22):
the previous playoffs. Well, one of the things, when you know,
we walked in the building right before the game, you
saw the stands and it was filled with Celtics green.
That right there set me off and it kind of
motivated me to be even more ready to play. So
I said to myself, I remember that game in Viglan.
(04:45):
I said, not tonight, It's not gonna be there night tonight.
And so I was on a mission to to beat them.
You know, if I had to do a single handling,
I mean, that was just my mentality that night. And
you know, sometimes an op for it, you know, when
you're gonna have a big night and that was one
of the nights that I knew I would have. I
didn't know I wasn have that big of a night.
(05:07):
Gonna have a big man the coach, What about for you?
I know you're meticulous in your preparation, but was there
anything special going into the prep for a game like
that evening? The fact that we had just started to
come back together again, for me was a concern here.
We had no women that night, no spot, no Mike McGee,
(05:29):
so the three guards were out. We had signed Gus Williams,
which Gus was up there in age at that time,
but we felt we just had to have somebody that
had a little experience I could get the ball down
court if we needed it during the course of the game.
And we had started out great that season eighteen and
four start, and then the injury set in and we
(05:52):
went through a terrible stretch and we're just you know,
starting to come back and put the pieces back together again.
And Nique Wood into that game with a bad back. Actually,
on the other hand, goes like this, Dominic Wilkins as
a little back problem, but he's going to give it
a world to night. What they are learning as a
(06:12):
young team is that because the NBA schedule is like
a war there world, big casualties and you have to
go buy the cansaties and keep on going. Did not
have the greatest of starts, in the fact, if I remember,
he did not score a basket in the second quarter
of that game. So to look at the end and
then go back and said, wait a minute, this guy
didn't have a bucket second quarter. But look what we
(06:34):
wound up with. And we gave John Battle to start
that night because of those other guys being out and
and John Battle was just terrific that night for us
as the starting guard. Great fake by Battle, I got
the basket, he's two out of two and at six
to lat on top of uh and had two or
three other shots that went halfway down and came out
(06:54):
for him. But he wound up with nineteen in that game.
So I just remember going in and with lost two
games to them. We had beaten him one time, but
I didn't know if we were back whole enough to
really battle that team. Because you think about the Hall
of famers that were on the Celtics team at that
at that time, Bird McHale, Parish frontline, Dennis Johnson age
(07:18):
in the back court, It's like wow, But what we
had was youth and energy and we had Dominique. Yeah, well,
coach you mentioned that. I mean, what does the scouting
report look like for trying to defend There's a long
list of them, but in particular Bird and Michale. What
is it like trying to figure out slowing those two
individuals down? Well, as Nick knows, probably one of the
(07:41):
biggest mistakes that I haven't made that next when we
played them in that great second uh seven game series,
we did not want to give up the three point line.
That was the thing that would beat us, and we
tried to stay home as much as possible. And what
I did, I asked Nick to be our star at
the offense and end of the floor, and at the
same time I played him the majority of his minutes
(08:04):
at the defensive end against Larry Bird. No, for Larry Bird,
Covin willis the river out ahead, the nominating He's got
battle with him. He takes him to and we were
trying not to double team because we didn't want to
give up the three point line. Meanwhile, the Celtics took
Larry Bird and put him on Tree Rollins because they
(08:26):
didn't want Nick going at Bird because they knew that
Larry would have a difficult time guarding Nique. So that
cross matching hurt us a couple of times in transition.
But we did some things during the course of this
game that we're talking about, where we went and doubled
guys only got the ball out of their hands, and
we were willing to live with the results. Yeah, Nick,
(08:48):
let's go back to the back issue that you were
dealing with. Coach for Hello, just telling us before we
get started, you played three or six or five days
a year if you could. But but do you remember
that you remember an impact like that. Yeah. I was
banged up going into that game, and Mike and I
had talked about if I was going to play in
that game or not. So we just we kind of decided, Okay,
(09:09):
I said, you know, I'm good to go. I'm gonna play.
And then, like I said, you know, I got energized
once the right right before the game started when I
saw the fans that's going nuts, and it wasn't necessarily
half fan at that time, and so I said, you
know what, I just I get through this first quarter.
I'm gonna be fine. I said, I'm gonna have a
big night one way or other, because that was just
(09:29):
my mentality. Like Mike said, John Battle had a terrific game,
really played well on both ends of the floor. He's
got sex, he's up to a sitter stary. Yeah, we'll
have only a lot of points for free. God. You know,
(09:50):
we all kind of came together in the game, like
said Randy Whitman was out along with some other guys
like you said Mike mcge So it was that next
man up mentality. And I said, I could have never
had the game that I had if it wasn't for
doctors and those guys man really finding a way to
find my number. So it was that's a total team effort. Uh.
Coach Hotelo talked about some of the matchups, and there
(10:12):
was a call in this game that was talking about
a dunk you had, and you had a lot earlier,
but nobody told about the slam dunk contest isn't until Saturday,
but but no one told Dominique. You had some nasty
(10:34):
jams on Larry Bird and Robert Parish. And that's where
they're real great three person when you speak about the
atmosphere and just sending a message. I know that was
characteristic of how you typically played, but take us inside
(10:55):
those type of moments, well, it was electric. I mean,
when you're playing against some greet the players to ever
played this game, you got to be able to really
match their intensity and play to their level, and in
a lot of cases you gotta play above that level,
especially when you're going against a team to have four
or five Hall of Famers one team, like Mike said,
(11:15):
the atmosphere was absolutely, I mean crazy. It was, like
I said, electric in the building. It's set up for
a great game for both teams, and it just came
down to who was gonna execute at the end of games. Unfortunately,
we was able to do a really nice job at
the end of the game to pull it off an overtime.
So at the end of the first quarter, you guys
(11:36):
were down by three points, it was seven. Celtics coach Fatello.
Larry Bird was having a little bit of an off
night early on, but Michale was really dominant in the paint.
Micale he has sixteen lead's all scores Welcome which has fourteen.
(11:58):
I think mccare maybe one of the the top three most
difficult guys to guard in the league. He's got seven
forty seven winnspat for our young listeners, for those who
are used to seeing him on on nv A, TV
or on the sidelines and didn't get a chance to
really understand the type of player that he was. Can
(12:19):
you describe for us paying a picture of what made
him so effective, so dominant, and so tough to tough
to guard. I think the biggest thing we need to
point out to the young viewers and listeners is they
may not remember there was a thing called illegal defense
way back when that you had to set your defense
(12:40):
up based on where the offensive players were placed. So
basically they tried to turn it into a three on
three games. So if you took two of your players
and put them above the top of the circle, their
defensive guys had to be above the fat line. Boston,
they would put McHale in a low post. They put
(13:01):
a wing on that side like an angel who could
shoot threes or larry bird and enter the ball into
McHale and if you're fronted him, they'd lob it over
the top to those long arms of his and the
defensive guys couldn't get there in time. On the back line,
they couldn't get from the foul line down there quick
enough to get get ahold of it. So they played
(13:22):
to that strength and they played to the rules extremely well.
So now when you played behind Kevin McHale, he's catching
the basketball basically eight feet away from the basket, he's
spitting into that left shoulder, shooting the jump hook with
those long arms, or he's fading to the right show
the baseline fade away. And that's what made him so
(13:43):
tough in traffic. What shot up the two are right
now if you go to double team him and he's
passing over the top, and now they've got numbers on you,
and it opens up the three point game for them.
So the guy playing against him much of the time
(14:03):
was Kevin Willis, who had an incredible game. He had
eighteen points and one rebounds in that game, but Kevin
fouled out at the end of the game because he
was trying to guard and be very physical with Kevin McHale.
Kevin McHale is the master of footwork, low post moves
back in those days, and so many people have copied
(14:24):
them over the years. Coach, you mentioned Kevin Willis, you
had him tree Rollins, you come away with twenty three
offensive rebounds to drop, but another offensive Rayboond Let's till us.
That is what's keeping Atlanta in this game, and they're
very much in it. How much was that a characteristic
of the way you guys played, how you want to
(14:46):
attack them? Just missed shots of you? What what aspects
and significance did that play in this one? That's what
we were all about. We were young, We were very excitable.
You talk about nowadays people checking pace and tempo with
the games. Tell him to watch that game and watch
how these guys got up and down the floor. Between
(15:06):
Nick and John Battle running the wings, Doc Rivers the
big locomotive, pushing that thing down the floor in the middle.
And when we used to have Spud, he was coming
at you faster than Doc was, so we could change ends.
And then I had often said one of our best
offenses was just shooting on the glass and go get it,
and then our second and third shots would be the
(15:27):
most effective parts of our game. The smaller an all
along John Battle won't go fire. I'm a tough shot starter,
and that's what we could do. In the Celtics understood
that we were quicker, we were more athletic, and the
(15:48):
thing we didn't have was the experience that they had
in these big game type of things, and that's why
we came out in that first quarter. We we were
not our best. We missed a lot of free throws
in the beginning of the game, but that's because we
were young and excitable and we wanted to beat them
so badly. But then eventually, you know, we were down
seven at the half, fifty one coming up. It's halftime,
(16:12):
and an average regular season game is about to turn
into a classic. A lot of still very much Nick,
What was coach for tell like in a halftime locker room,
you guys down by seven, take us inside. You know
(16:34):
I say this all the time, and I didn't realize it,
did I said, Mica is the most underrated coach in
the history of this game, because I've never seen a
guy who can take a play that we've never ran.
And if you listened to him after he kind of
maps it out what he wants you to do on
the floor. If you listen to what he's saying nine
times opportune, you're gonna get an open shot and you're
(16:56):
gonna get a well executed play. He was tough in
the locker room, no question about. Mike was tough in
the lock room. But Mike was all about the X
and os. Execute, execute, execute, if you're willing to listen,
work hard, being able to change ins on the dcause
A lot of times our defense generated an easy offense
for us. I mean, we primarily concentrated on our defense.
(17:18):
We knew we could score, but defense was our bread
and butther as a team and Mike Man we used
to call in the little general. It's like he would
come and he would get in your face and say, hell,
this is what I need done. But the thing that
I realized that how important he was for me. I've
never had another coach after that, another coach like him
(17:39):
after that, that good, that precise and that and really
understood the game in every aspect, you know. So I
didn't know what I had there, but I just appreciate
how he got us ready to play each and every night,
especially in the Eastern Conference. Man Eastern Conference was a monster,
(18:00):
and so you had to be ready to go every
night and min with that motivating force. Nick, thank you
appreciate that. It's true. Sarah. Let me say this, Well,
while we're in this part of it that I've said
many times since I stopped coaching, They say, what are
some of the things you miss and look back on?
And I always say, I look back and now realized
(18:22):
the greatness of the player I had number twenty one,
and realize any of those ws that were next to
my name, that guy was responsible for. We may had
a couple of guys chip in for a percentage or two,
but this guy was the guy. And I always felt
that way after after the fact, I truly appreciated how
(18:44):
great his greatness was and and I was special. Thank you, Mike,
I appreciate that. Bring back a lot of memories. Bring
back a lot of memories. Man, we we had a
lot of fun, had a lot of fun. With that
being said, in the memories, I mean, can you just
describe what this rivalry was like with the Celtics. I mean,
there was times where you guys are getting chippy and
(19:07):
and Nick, I don't know if you remember. There was
a point here you and Greg Kite at the end
of the third quarter. I had a little bit of
a moment. But but do you remember that. I remember,
and Mike you might not remember because you know then
heated the battle on Mike was trying to get people
a position to you know, you're ready to play. But
I remember into the towards the in the third quarter
before Mike took me out of the game for for
(19:29):
a rest, suck suckings in the quarter. Oh, you're not
gonna sure if they get a creditor that I remember
when I have a court Larry Bird, Kevin Willison myself,
and I remember Kevin reaches across me and puts his
finger in Larry but he said, don't let this show
(19:50):
was so scool any more to night. And I looked
at Kevin, I'm like, what the hell are you're doing?
You don't wait and sleeping giant, I don't wear there.
They brought each game after three start with us no
dominant welcomes pointing at Greg right, they almost hard to
go out of the end of three Celtic City suck
(20:11):
ups want and it opened up that great fourth quarter
that we had. Man that was coach didn't feel personal.
I mean, you think about Nick, I know you you
lost to the Celtics six in the playoffs and and
without you know, so many different moments and and things
(20:31):
that you experienced in terms of rivalries in the league,
but with the Celtics in particular, and coach you you first,
did you feel this? Did you feel the intensity of
this rivalry every time that you guys stepped on the court, Sarah?
Did I feel it? Let me let me remember. Do
you happen to remember, Nique? The game up in Boston
(20:53):
Garden when I got carried out by the security guys,
when that the fan came out of the stands. I
saw a fan comes out of the stands. Never forget.
We were running the last shot of the quarter. The
clock was down under twenty seconds, and I I walked
towards half court to yell to Doc that we wanted
to run to get the last shot of the quarter.
(21:16):
And somebody behind me starts cursing at me, and I'm
I mean, like cursing at me. And I turned around
a look, and it's a gentleman that used to sit
in the chair all by himself, and he might have
been a hundred and ten years old ball I knew,
but out of respect for him, I just kind of
looked and said, what do you what do you doing
that you don't even belong here in this chair. Next
(21:38):
thing I know, a guy comes running out of the
stands at me and I turned around and I nailed
him good. Nico. I remember I got him good, and
I'm upside down being carried out of the arena and
by the security guys in Boston. So, Sarah, you want
to ask that question again to you physically, this is
(22:01):
not literally physically. I was carried out down a steps
and through the middle out into the hallway. I remember
that because I was telling you, guys, don't go into stands. Man.
We were in the Boston Garden. Don't go into stands. Yeah.
I remember them carrying Mike out of the out arenam
and and that that game with Man, and you didn't
know what was gonna happen because it was it was
so much attention and kind of like a pandemonium on
(22:25):
the floor. I mean, people were like, I mean that
that that that was one of the most rowdy fans
I've ever experienced during my time of playing basketball. But
it was it was funny, it was fun. But we
didn't have Mike, we didn't have They carry them out
pretty early. If we're talking about the carrying out, I
need one more memory back to eighty three now, the
(22:46):
Angel and Tree rollins Man didn't bring that one up.
Do you remember that is there? Is there? When it happened? Um,
you know what what happened? You know again it was
a feisty game, you know, Angel and Treat. I don't
know they had this thing. You know, they really hated
each other. I think we all hated Angel at that
(23:07):
time because he was such a pest. But the Angel
would come around the screen and Tree would try to
screen him and he would jab Tree in his ribs,
and Tree up said, look, rough, to keep doing this.
You know, it's something bad gonna happened. So he did
it like three times. So the third time he's coming
around the screen, Tree took his elbow and caught Danny
(23:28):
Ainge square in his face. Almost I thought he took
his head off. Men, he hit him that hard. And
so when they were on the floor, Danny Ainge went
for trees legs and then they hit the floor and
everybody was down on the pile. Everybody down on the pile.
And I remember he tried to poe Tree in the eye,
and Treat caught his finger and almost bit his finger off.
(23:51):
You know, hilp with bid his finger off, and they
asked him why did he bite him. He said, well,
everything outside my mouth belonging to him, everything inside belongs
to me. I mean they had to sole his finger
almost back on. Yeah, it was an interesting time back then, unbelievable.
All right, I'm gonna have you take us back to
the start of the fourth quarter. Uh and the third quarter.
(24:14):
You guys are down by five Dominique. At this point
you have twenty four points. But you guys get rolling
to start that fourth quarter. You're crowds d almost water.
We're tied. The crowd is going crazy. Nick. I know
(24:44):
you've already mentioned just the feel in the atmosphere inside
the arena, but the electricity of a closing period. Literally,
we know we'd have some extra basketball to go along
with it. But what what was it about that crowd
and about the arena and about that field that made
it unique and different. Our whole thing was that keep
(25:05):
the game close against the Celtics, because you could Celtic
is one of the teams that you couldn't make mistakes.
If you made mistakes, they capitalize off your mistakes, So
you try to minimize that and just compete on the
same level that that they could be there. We've always
played the Celtics in great games. We always had great
games against them, but it always came down to that
(25:26):
fourth quarter that really told the difference, especially late in
the fourth quarter, and there was a team that was
great at executing, you know, at the end of games
possible a far we're staying at all, right, you had
(25:48):
thirty points, which just over five minutes left in regulation.
Did your mindset change regularly in crunch time, knowing when
it's something something clicks, when it's it's close out time. Yeah, me,
I mean yeah, it pretty much with the same, except
for you didn't want to make mistakes or take bad
shots at that point of the game, you know, because
(26:09):
the Celtics again, if you if you took bad shots,
you made mistakes. Man, they were coming back at you
another end. They were They had one of the most
probably the smartest veteran crew of guys that was playing
basketball during that time. I mean, they had all guys
with high basketball i Q. And they found ways to
beat you. Coming up we head down the stretch in
(26:34):
Atlanta is Dominique duels with Bird and Micaal coach. So
(26:55):
we're really making you. You just think back in the
memory bank. But seconds left in regulation. You guys were
down by two, you call a time out, huddle up.
Do you know what you called on that huddle? Well,
if I was smart, I'd call Nick's number. Yes, you
go es, you go ESO. Nick got Kevin McHale shot
(27:18):
the time I on the front car, seconds left and uh,
just as the double team starts to come, Nick pulls
up shoots over McHale. Nick, what do you remember about
this play? Coach? What do you remember about this play?
So it was that the half hook half jump shot.
There was a lot of arc, There was a lot.
(27:40):
It was that shot in the corner. I think it
was on the It was on the right side, and
it was in the court and I waved them off
the clear and Kevin McHale, I mean, they never really
let bird guard me. You know, I had to chase
someone the other end, but Kevin McHale would guard me defensively,
and you know he gave me just a little room.
You know, after I got into my drip where he
(28:02):
backed up a little bit, said this this is why
I'm gonna rise up on him. So once that window
opened up for me, I was gonna let it fly.
You know, winner lose, make it a miss. I was
gonna let the shot go and the unfortunately it went in.
That's pretty good guy to have. What's the ball, let's
(28:23):
her welcome? Seven. You shot that one a little bit higher,
Nick than you normally had to because of those little arms. Yeah.
I had to me. Yeah, you're right, Mike, he was
so long that I don't arc my shot that high.
But when you got a guy with that type of
length coming at you, you know you gotta put a
(28:44):
little more on it. Yeah, So tie game, Nick, You
had eighteen of the Hawks, thirty points in the fourth quarter,
thirty one points in the second half. Celtics call a
time out eighteen seconds left. Do you remember what you're
telling your guys, telling your team on that final offensive
possession or just how you go about approaching things at
that point. And one of the things we had talked
(29:06):
about because Kevin McHale was man, he was dominant, and
we wanted to get the ball out of his hands,
and so, you know, we end up doing that and
they end up taking a tough shot. I think it
was age was age shot and yeah, yep, exactly. We
did get it out of his hands and it wound
up with ange shooting the open shot and he missed,
missed the shot, couldn't yep, said the time overtime and
(29:36):
that took the game into overtime. Yes, yeah, and you
guys came out aggressive out of overtime. You take a
quick six point lead. I think it was and Nique.
At this point you had forty nine points thirty five
since halftime. You got a strip on levery bird, great
passed by River wanted what are you thinking here with it?
(30:08):
You talked about giving yourself an opportunity to close things out. Well,
now here you are in overtime and you jump out
with a quick lead. Where is your mindset with this?
This young, scrappy team, this athletic team that you guys have,
excitable what's the mindset here at this point? You know,
because we had so much youth, you know, the key
was too and that overtime was to have some defensive
(30:30):
stops early in the quarter to give ourselves a chance
to win. And we did. I thought we'd played great
team defense that gave us a chance to get out
to get a couple of easy buckets. In that overtime.
They didn't score until like the three minute and twenty
second mark. To Celtics in the overtime. That's who the
defense Nick was talking about. But I think with about
(30:52):
thirty five seconds to go, Nick made an incredible shot
and I was referring to it before when I said
it was like kind of a half jump shot, half
jump hook, and he may have gotten fouled on it.
Can against Wilton, what a match up. They go one
on one, the zone is clear. I'm a name. What
(31:15):
a shot. He's got a trusting one point. He had
fourteen and half to them. They weren't sure he was
gonna play it because it's black words. That's a good
way to trick your back out. That's it there, that's shot.
He got it. He's got fifty two Boston clost I
(31:37):
line up by far with seven teen seconds for Nannic.
Would not happened better for atlant I could Boston come back,
We'll see after that. But you know, if Boston was
a team that was gonna keep coming. So it came
down to the last shot for them to try to
tie it to go into a second overtime. But I
thought early we hit them early in that overtime quarter
(31:59):
where we was able to get out front and uh,
finally win the game for friend. No, we'll not. It's
Crowder doesn't matter over time as a fry the great
great basketball to final? What did you like about your
(32:26):
matchup with We've talked a lot about you matching up
with Michale and going I against Kevin McHale. What did
you like about that matchup when you had the ball
in your hands. I loved playing against the Celtics because
they brought out the best in you, and you had
guys like Kevin McAll and Larry burg Paris that big,
huge front line. It made it made it fun to
(32:47):
play against a team like that. But when you play
against the best big men in the league, some of
the best big men in the league, you couldn't help
but wanting to play at your best and really show
the basketball world that you belong. And my whole thing
was showing them that was just as good as anybody.
And so that was a great test to making people
understand the basketball. We'll understand that I was more than
(33:09):
des an athlete. I was more than just a dunker.
I was a basketball player. Nick, how would you characterize
this performance in this game? For you? Because you've had
bigger scoring nights, but the the idea that it was
against the Celtics. It was every single point that you
scored was needed. How do you put this in how
(33:30):
do you put this in perspective? I mean, yeah, I've
had games that I don't know if they were bigger.
I think that you have some games that was equally important,
but that game was big for this reason. You're going
against probably the one of the greatest front lines in
the history of basketball. And to score like that against
the front line, like against a basketball team like that,
(33:52):
I mean, it shows you how far you've come as
a player. But also you know, when you play that way,
to respect you you get from your opponents and I
got I mean even though Larry Brandon I never talked,
never to your hands, we respected each other. Michail Parish,
all of us respected each other, and they knew, you know,
every night that we played against one another that it's
(34:14):
not gonna be an easy night one side or the other.
So you know, the Celtics matchups man my favorite of
all times. So later the season, speaking to that, you
lost to the Pistons in the playoffs. The next year,
you lost to the Celtics in that Epics seven game series.
But your Hawks teams. They were so much fun to watch.
I personally, I loved every bit of it. I told you,
(34:37):
I've told you before. Number one, I'm more number twenty
one because Dominique Wilkins, how would you describe the eighties Hawks?
The eighties Hawks some of the greatest teams, It's not
the greatest teams, especially a year we won fifty seven
that the Hawks have ever had, you know, because of
the era we've played in the physicality and how good
(35:00):
a lot of these teams in the East world for
us to win fifty seven games and that year was
a monumental feat and as a testament to our hard
work and how you know we was prepared. Now. Mike
got us ready to go each and every night. So, uh,
that was big for us because that's when the basketball
world noticed that, hey, these Hawks are for real, and
(35:23):
so our ponies knew what we brought to the table.
They knew that they knew that we were gonna come
every night and play hard. Coach for Tello, Dominique will
gets you to our legends. I cannot thank you enough
for sharing these moments and these memories, ones that we
certainly appreciate. And UH is your time now in your
time always, UM, thank you it really, it really is
(35:46):
so special to all of us. Thank you, seron. Thanks.
And I just want to say to Mike before we go, man,
I you know I really missed you and appreciate everything
you've done for me in my career. Man and I
often talked about it. You know, it's not a year
that goes. I don't really talk about how special that
relationship was and still is to this day. And so Man,
I love you and I appreciate you guys having me
(36:08):
on Sarah. About ten feet away from where I'm sitting
right there was Dominique's jersey hanging on my wall and
it's been in that hanging position for years and years
with a light over the top of it because it
should shine on him. That's how I felt about him.
A special friendship, special coach and man. And hopefully we
can continue to go together be around for a long time.
(36:31):
I know you're a lot older than me, but that's okay.
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