May 2, 2022 • 57 mins
Hosted by Sarah Kustok, NBA Flashback is the podcast that takes you back to the best moments in NBA history through exclusive archival audio from the NBA vault, along with new interviews with the players and coaches who were in the building.
In this episode of NBA Flashback, we go back to May 8th, 1991 and relive Game 2 of the Western Conference Semifinals, when the Run TMC Warriors faced Magic Johnson and the Lakers at The Forum in LA. We talk with Tim Hardaway about the excitement surrounding Run TMC in the early 90's, if Chris Mullin was the greatest shooter he ever saw, and how he torched the Lakers with his killer crossover.
NBA Flashback is available on the iHeart app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. NBA Flashback is a production of iHeartMedia and the NBA.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
NBA Flashback is a production of I Heart Radio in
the NBA. HEYFC right here, me moy mid all the
way Banks off on. He started ri was brilliant. Here's
(00:21):
men didn't get it to Goma. Gotta face listeners. Saved
by Richmond to let us down. The woman here they
startled by Woma, distructive started West a second run TMC.
(00:47):
The Warriors trio of Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, and Chris Mullen,
along with their coach Don Nelson, changed the game. They
played fast, they had fun, and they lit it up.
It only lasted two seasons, but these three guys in
Golden State were the coolest thing in the basketball world
for a brief time in the early nineties. On today's
(01:11):
episode of NBA Flashback, we go back to May eighth,
our great producer Grace Fuse was just six years away
from being born, and thirty one years ago, Terminator two
was the biggest movie in America. The Worldwide Web first
became available to the public, and Nirvana was busy recording
(01:32):
smells like Team Spirit. The Warriors are playing the Lakers
in Game two with the Western Conference semifinals, and we're
talking with Tim Hardaway about the excitement of run TMC,
if Chris Mullen was the best shooter he ever saw
and how he used the killer crossover in this game.
We are honored to be joined by five time and
(01:54):
be All Star the man with the killer crossover, soon
to be Basketball Hall of Famer Tim Hard the way
to First off, congrats and we appreciate you being here
with us. But before we get into this uh tremendous game,
congrats on the Basketball Hall of Fame. And as we
talked about run TMC, both ms Chris have already been inducted.
(02:16):
What's your feel on this honor and getting ready for that? Well,
first of all, thank you for having me on. Thank
you for the congratulations. The field is um, it's still unreal,
you know, still unreal. It's bigger than me. It's way
bigger than me. It's it's this for the city of Chicago,
(02:36):
the South Side of Chicago, my parents, my brother you know,
my cousins, my uncle, all my relatives, my wife, my kids.
You know, Without them and their strength and helped me
get through a lot of things, I wouldn't be in
a predicament I mean today. So it's um to my
friends and you know all the basketball guys that helped
(02:59):
me to keep my head together. Um made me go
on the right path and made me understand this is
where I didn't want to go because a lot of
people went that way. Hey, you know it's it's a
tribute to them. And uh when they say it takes
a village to raise your kid, it was a village
of a lot of Chicagoans raising me well as as
(03:20):
a fellow born and raised in Chicago. You know, I
I appreciate I appreciate hearing that I grew up watching you,
admiring you, inspired by you. Um So, to get a
chance to talk with you and talk about such a
tremendous time and um a tremendous game just within a
small part of your amazing career is certainly an honor
for me. Um So, thank you for that. So before
(03:42):
we get to the incredible Game two of that Western
Conference in my final, we talk a lot about run TMC.
And it's amazing to me how much everyone was just
so enamored by how you guys played and what you
guys were. But can you give us the origin story
of how run TMC came together? Well, you know, run
(04:03):
TMC came together. I guess my second year really my
first year, um the end of my first year in
we started, not only us the coaching staff, the city
started seeing a threesome that was revolving and everybody's eyes
right then and there, and how we played, the careisma
(04:26):
we played with, how we kind of knew each other
movements out there on the floor. It was just a
connecting type of atmosphere for us. We practiced together all
the time, We talked about the game all the time,
We watched film together all the time. We understood what
we wanted to do out there, how to run plays,
what to look for. You know, if I see if
(04:47):
I see your eyes moving, you know, you don't have
to do your hands and nothing like that, just see
your eyes of your head moved. I know want to
throw the ball to you know, I know that you're
going back door. I could you know, I could tell
that you want to love Mitch Mulley. We threw a
little lives money Chris Mullen, but you know he can't
get up that high. But we do some lives to
him too. But now you know, it was just it
(05:08):
was just understanding teammates and and our team understood us
as we understood them. That's how I revolved. But it
was it was short lived. Um, you know, we we
we created a buzz and two years we we we
created a big buzz. Not across America, but across the world.
You know, a lot of people we still resonate. We
(05:30):
still people still nois we I'm walking in China, somewhere Australia,
They'll be like, run to MC. I'm like, wow, okay,
that's that's that's good stuff. You know, they still know us.
And we could talk about this day in and day out.
But you know, we love to play the game. We
love to play with one another, and we knew. I
knew how to throw the ball to them. I'm running
(05:51):
down the court and you can you can tell I'm
on your left, I'm on your right. I'm trailing here.
I'm trailing there, And I could just hear their footsteps
and I can hear them running, And I knew who
was who and who to get a ball too. Who
if who didn't get enough shots that game or not
enough shots that half. I knew to give shots too.
So it was just the equal dynamics that we had
(06:13):
that that went with our careers, man, and we had
fun doing in it. And man, it was just short lived.
Well you're spot on, I mean legendary stuff. To think
that it was just two years and we're still talking
about today everyone. It really it really did touch everyone
worldwide real quick. Before we move on to the game.
The nickname run t MC. Where did that come from?
(06:34):
We we had that was funny. We had what you
call that, not a pole, but we had people right
in with what they think we should be called. We
had over probably about say two three, maybe four thousand
letters or low nicknames or whatever. And uh, of course
(06:55):
we get speed and we was looking at stuff. Now
that's not it. No, that's not it. Now, that's not it.
Steve Albert presented some of the name ideas to the trio,
the dunk and Go nuts, the dunk and Go nuts,
no triangle, Yeah nuts for Tim Hardaway. No that's okay,
(07:15):
but it is running and about. It didn't take that long,
about twenty minutes. Maybe we pulled out I think it was.
It wasn't me. I think it was Chris or miss
pull out, Run TIMC. And it caught on like real quick.
(07:36):
I mean you say, run TIMC. We run. We get
up and down the court quick. We try to score quick.
We're running fast, run timc. And we liked it, and
it's stuck with us. And we looked at a couple
of more names were like no, no, maybe about five
Timbore names and nothing stuck. But that really stuck with us,
(07:56):
and we went from with that name, and the US
called on quick, I mean call on real quick. Well,
you mentioned the buzz. So now it's all three of
you guys are putting up huge numbers. You're selling out
every home game. You make it to the playoffs. Uh,
what was the vibe like in Oakland and around this
team and so you guys are just blowing up. I'll
(08:18):
tell you this. Fans in a Bay Area no sports.
They know basketball, they know football, they know baseball. They
love their sports, and if you're not out there giving
your all each and every night, they'll let you have it.
If you're out there, you're giving your all and you're losing,
they'll stick with you through thick and thin, and they
(08:40):
will you know, they encourage you. They always be positive.
But if you're not giving your absolute all, they will
not be positive towards you. I found out out quick
and it's not turning on you. They just want you
to go out there and play your best each and
every night because they come in there and they low
and them are some low fans and they know their
(09:00):
basketball out there, and the bus was simply I mean
it was great. I mean it was great. Sometimes you
can't even hear yourself. I'm talking to Nelly. I couldn't
even talking to mitche I couldn't even hear myself talk
to them, or they couldn't hear me. That's how loud
it was in there. And that it was. It was great.
It still is a great atmosphere because they know, they
(09:22):
know their game of basketball and they know what call
should go what and how it should be called. And
you know shots should be going in or if you're
forcing some past the ball, Timmy, you know you shoot
too much or whatever. You know, but they and your stuff.
But they there's some great fans out there, and uh,
I love them to death. I love that. I love that. Alright,
(09:44):
So playoffs start. You would beat David Robinson rod Strickling
the Spurs in the first round, um lose game one
to the Lakers in that second round. I was out
impressive win for the Lakers. They had a couple of
bus leagues never trailed, and Golden State played without Chris Mullen.
(10:05):
Just not enough. The Lakers want to find one six
team in Chris Mullen had missed Game one with the
knee injury. Um but he's back for game two. How
much did that change the game plan when Molly's back
and went with you guys, well, you know when you're
missing one of your top scores, top scores in the league,
(10:25):
one of your leaders on the floor that you know
you go to and he gonna make a shot, He's
gonna make a play. That really hurt us because it
was just mentioning myself and sharrunus. Chris plays a big
part of our schemes and how we want to run offense,
how we how we doing defense out there, and uh,
to be missing him, we we had to because we
(10:47):
wasn't hurt all year long, you know, so we we
was playing in the style that we knew how to play,
and we was comfortable and playing and we understood what
we had to do and when we had to do it.
But when you missed that piece for a whole game,
you know, it's it's not really the same. You know
(11:09):
what I'm saying that the team is not really the same.
You're missing that important piece, and we was missing that
important piece the first game, even though we played well,
we played well, we went out there and um we
lost to him, not that much. I think we lost
to him by like ten points or something like that.
But Magic had a big game. Magic was like, look,
I can't score you know, forty points and or you know,
(11:31):
twenty five points and and this and that, and we
win games or we lose games. I gotta I gotta
control of the temple of the offense. And he did
that in the second game. He got out of characteristic
in the second game, and he tried to match point
by point with Chris Mullen when Chris came back. And
(11:52):
when he came back the game too, you could tell
the confidence of the team went to a different avel.
You know. It was like, all right, we got a
captain back, and uh, we got one of prolific scores
in the league back. We can make something happen. The
legendary chickhern and Stu Lance had the call for this
one on the Lakers Basketball Network. Played in a hundred
(12:16):
consecutive games like He's been in a fight, doesn't it
and he is a tough worker. Chris Mullen starting up
front will be christ six seven to fifteen. St. John's
six year. He can really play the game. Great palette
American International six five to ten a rookie played in
(12:38):
the CBIA this year where he averaged. This guy speaks
four different languages. Arizona States Alton Listerer will start seven
ft thirty two years a day. Number one picked up
Milwaukee the last year, five years, well, the last year
he was with Seattle in the backcourt to bring you
Timmy Hardaway, El Pasto, jackas Sive second year and the
(13:00):
other guard Richmond, Kansas State six five to fifteen, twenty
five years of age, third year, twice the coach of
the Year in the NBA. Don Nelson is in his
fourteen campaigns, his third as a head coach of Golden State.
I love it you. You bring up, You bring up
Magic and Molly going back and forth. Will have a
much tougher game tonight with Mullen back. He not only
(13:22):
is a great player, he is their leader. He's their magic.
Johnson now with the ball Magic Johnson in the front
guard against Mullen ironically, but with the size difference and stuff,
you actually matched up against Byron Scott and then Mullen
mashed up with Magic um. But so even though you
weren't on him a bunch is you as a young
point guard in the n b A and playing against
(13:45):
Magic in this series? What was that like for you?
Magic sational play? If he can do that skin move
and get away, it's one of the a charging situation.
Then he makes a nice pad, good body. That's the
point the pass where poor body didn't have to do
anything that catch and put him. What Well, first of all,
I wanted let me take you back my rookie year.
(14:06):
So I'm in a great Western form, all right, So
I'm playing, I'm we're getting ready, and you always imagine
playing in a great Western form. You know, Magic, Kareem,
Jerry West, the mystique of all those guys and everything.
Then you see all the movie stars and everybody down
there on the floor at the games coming in right
(14:27):
before tip off, Ken did he have a year? There's
Jack Hi Jack looking behind him, nurse too, and then
they tip it up and you know my first game there,
I was in awe. Nell you asked me, said, hey, um, tim,
(14:51):
you are right, and I'm in the days. He said,
you are right. I'm like, no, he said, what's wrong?
I see it. I'm in a great West informed playing
against Magic, looking at all these stars right here. I
pitched this. This is a dream come true. And you
know what I ain't. I'm in the game. I'm in
(15:12):
the game, and you know this is a time out.
He's like, take your bleep, bleep bleep over there and
set your bleep down until you get ready to play
and your mind gets into it. Let me know. I
was like, okay, all right. It took me a while.
It took me a while, but yeah, getting back to the
the game too. By that time, I was all right,
(15:33):
everything was cool. I had a whole year we played there,
and then you know that season two, So I've been
played there two seasons. So I'm like, all right, cool,
I'm through it all that. Let's go ahead and let's play.
Let's you know, let's go ahead and let's let's play
and let's win this game. Yeah. You know, in the playoffs,
you could tell everything ramps up, you could tell how
(15:56):
serious everybody gets. You could tell attention to detail, and
when you watch magic, James Worthy environment. Scott, those guys
that have been there, you really study that and understand
how they prepare for games, how they come out and
(16:18):
playoff games instead of regular season games. It goes up
a notch. That's where it felt. They went up a notch.
We had to go up a notcher two to beat them,
and that's what we did to come down the middle. Look,
at here comes fricking Magic stop six. Magic really had
all that beautiful Yeah, well the magic man, he knows
that he had to get into the out. You were
(16:40):
talking about how you guys were trying to guard Magic
in your right early second quarter. Uh, he gets hot.
He scores eleventh straight. Um, what was the game plan?
I mean, what what's the game plan against someone of
his caliber in a playoff atmosphere like that. Well, the
game plan was to pick him up full court, get
him tired, making work on defense also, but making work
(17:02):
on offense, bringing the ball up. But the thing was
when we double team Vloody or when we had to
double team Sam Perkins, we that game plan was to
leave him open and let him try to make jump shots.
He was making jump shots and he was going to
the hole as the offense was revolving as he was
(17:23):
running the show. He would take the ball to the
hole and make plays at the rim. Magic with the
ball back and then the model. He's gonna look for
a seventh point in a row right now. With a
shot of eight, he made seven. So it was it
was a lot of uh schemes that was going on,
and he picked apart all the schemes because he understood
what he was trying to do, because you know, that's magic.
(17:45):
And once he got off to a good start and
started rolling, he kind of forgot he was the point
guard and kind of forgot his teammates and what they
needed to do for him to do to win the game,
and he became a score instead of a facilitator and
(18:05):
running the show. Magic was the ball in the front
guard and made the last seven points. Magic might try
for nine. He brings a Doncatigue back into Magic. Magic
against Barcelona's what I wanted Magic around him. So and
he's got nine in a row and he had a
leven overall, and like I said, he kind of knew that,
but it was too late. He was already in the groove.
(18:26):
He was already rolled. Magic now made eleven straight us
by himself as reading Barty nine and see him and
Chris Mullen go back to back, you know, and we
wanted him to stick Chris and run. We ran Chris
off of screens because we know that Magic is not
(18:48):
gonna come off screens, and Chris was wide open, i say,
of the whole game. And so that's what we took
advantage of. Mullen had an observation about Magic's aggression on offense.
Magic had a huge game, magicalt three. Magic had forty four,
but very close. But the genius of Magic Johnson, when
he scored big numbers, they lost. His real gift was
(19:13):
passing his teammates involved. So for the rest of that series,
he started the game getting it one involved and he
turned it around himself. You know, he made his own adjustments.
Like you said, Tim was killing who was guarding him,
but Magic kind of slowed everything down and took control
that because I think in game to the game, he
when he hit forty three and it's just huge numbers,
(19:34):
but they lost. I'm gonna briefly sidetrack you were talking
about your rookie years, seeing the stars, celebrities, things like that.
This this player, you guys were the Stars. Chick Hearn
mentioned on the broadcast that a bunch of Warriors went
on the r Cineo Hull Show between Games one and
two and predicted a win. Or Hall he had a
lot of the Golden State Warriors on his show last
(19:55):
night and they all said, Hey, they're gonna win. Was
that you were? You there? I was on the show,
but not that particular time. I think it was somebody else.
I think it was Mario Elliot or I know it
wasn't Chris because Chris wouldn't say that. Mitch Mario. I
can see Mario. Mario probably said that. Uh even Taverne
(20:17):
Hill probably said it. But now I didn't say it.
But you know, but that's how confident we was as
a team. If one of our teammates said it, We're
gonna back it up. You know. We we that's the
way we were. If he believed that, and if he's
gonna say that on national TV, we got to come
out and do what we need to do to perform
and to make it true so he won't his peers
(20:40):
or the radio, TV won't get on him. So, um,
that's what we That's that's how we used to play.
If you're gonna. If you're gonna say it, we're gonna,
we're gonna do it for you. Well, you backed it up,
and watching you playing this game, it does look like
you were not on any show and you were getting
a good night's sleep because the Lakers couldn't that they
had no one that can stop you. I mean, you
(21:01):
were getting in the lane. You could do anything and
get anywhere you wanted to on the floor, right under
the basket, nice pass, basket counts, foul, beautiful pass. Higgens
gats that. I think he was followed by a C.
Green who replaced Boody. I can't say enough about Jim
Hardaway's affility to after making quick moves and his decisions
(21:22):
or right quick quis passes right on the money that
time Rod Higgins with the easy basket. Hardaway against the
Larry Grew was in their heart Away, down at heart
Away all the way stores. What was your mindset and
approach offensively in this one and for this game? Um,
I have to play better. I have to get my
(21:42):
team to play better. I have to go out there
and set the tone of the game on defense and offense.
Do what we like to do. Calls havoc on a
defensive end on offensive end, just be uh confident, play
our type of basketball motion offense, UH strong with the basketball,
(22:04):
going to the rim and making plays. And everybody, Uh
when I started the first get go of doing that,
they seemed like the whole team just went with me.
They saw that the energy, the energy has to be
up on defense and offense. You gotta lay it all
out on the line. And that's where we did that game.
You know, we came out and played hard, play really
(22:25):
good defense. We were small, we rebound the ball, we
were scrappy, We got the balls, and like I said,
you know, I had to get past my man if
I had to get past one or two guys to
make it play, not to shoot the ball, just to
make a play to get somebody open. That's what I did.
And then you know, you make a play, but the
guys have to make the shot. And the guys and
(22:48):
you have to feel comfortable with giving them, you know,
in confident and given your guys the ball to make shots.
And I was never uncomfortable with giving the ball to
anybody on my team, anybody on my team. And and
because I always gave him confidence. Once I got bad, somebody,
I give it to you, shoot the ball, you know,
make it and that game everybody's making it. Ride against
(23:09):
Tom Tober of course match Molly myself, Sharon is you know,
we just had an all around good basketball game. I've
never seen a better extufficient of outside shots. By one
game and a quarter, they are stinging from dis beautiful
(23:34):
who were dropping dime. So you had Tennis's I don't
know if you remember in the first half your average
third team for the for the series, so you were
absolutely uh sharing the rock um. But you mentioned a
little bit you guys were a younger, quicker team. You'd
like to run, scored quick, the Lakers a little different
than their approach and trying to slow down the game
and pounding the post. But when you look at Don
(23:56):
Nelson is the coach, and at the GM and just
the way you guys play and how you ran, do
you feel like he was a little bit We've seen
the trajectory of how the game has evolved in a
changed in what the NBA game looks like. Now, do
you feel like he was a little bit ahead of
his time with the style of play that you guys
looked like he was ahead of his time. This is
what he envisioned the game being played as right now.
(24:18):
That's what we was doing back in the late eighties,
well early nineties, playing this type of basketball, point forward,
point center. You know, everybody is um interchangeable on offense
and defense, playing small ball, you know, he was. He
don Nelson was the big catalyst of getting the rules
(24:39):
changed to zone because we tried to play zone doing
our ine all those years. We was trying to play
his own and we was trying to manipulate the defense
and manipulate the rules to our advantage. Sometimes we get caught,
sometimes we didn't. But Don Nelson was ahead of his time.
(24:59):
He envisioned all this that's happening right now, and he
was the cause of all this that's happening right now.
And Gregg Popovitch was on our staff and he took
it to the next level when he was with the
San Antonio Spurs. And that's why everybody is really playing
this type of basketball today. Yeah, a lot of it too,
just the personnel that you had obviously being able to
(25:20):
play basically four guards spread the floor, um, and you
have some shooters. Chris Mullen was unbelievable and this one.
What was it like for you as a point guard
playing with a shooter like that. I'm gonna tell you this.
I love Steph, I love k D, I love all
(25:41):
these shooters. But when you're talking about you know, this
guy made eight in a row, this guy made ninety
in a row, we've seen that. We've seen that. Okay,
I only seen Chris Mullen not missing practice, you know,
took game shots, layups, but now missing a two hour
practice after you know, running an hour and working on
(26:05):
this game. So I didn't seen this, Just wanting again,
what an outside shooting that's officially one of that day
off Chris Ullin. It's not just Chris, it's all of them.
And so when they when they say, yeah, he made
eight in a row, I said, okay, I saw that already.
(26:28):
What can I tell you? But I'm not being trying
to say it's bad or anything like that, but I said,
it doesn't phaze me because I saw it once. Once
I saw Chris Mullen do it it, I was. I
was hyped in. I was I was like, wow, man,
you know for two hours you didn't miss a shot.
You know you you you hit eight in a row.
I'm I'm sitting down ice and down. You just made
eight ninety in a row. He was like, I did.
(26:51):
I I'm like, you know what you're doing. He's like, man,
I'm just out here just getting some shots up. But
you know, that's the way Chris was. So when he's
on a role like that, it wasn't like, oh wow,
now we're like, yo, let's go. He's on the road.
Just follow his league. Right here the ball and that's
(27:13):
such a good tree mulling for three got another one
to want a shooting exhibition. He's got sixteen points and
he's got two threes. He missed one or two shots.
He missed three shots. Take seven. He's like, let's go
right behind you, mall you the catalysts. Let's go. Let's
going because he's gonna find Chris is gonna play basketball.
(27:35):
Even though he's gonna make shots, He's gonna find you
and he's gonna make plays. Is he the best shooter
you've ever seen? He's the best shooter I ever seen? Yes,
I ever seen. Yes, he's the best shooter. Yes that
I've been in the same and I've been in the
same gym at the same practice watching him shoot, watching
him go through drills. Yes, he is the best shooter
(27:56):
in this season. He shot from the field average twenty
five a game. And the crazy part it was mostly
on twenty ft jump shot. I mean it was a
ton of long twols. But um. But with that being said,
you guys start off the second half and you and
Chris Mullen hit back to back threes the game. Yes,
(28:19):
he only made forty in the entire season, made out
of the hard way. He shoots for another three, he
got it. They're gonna go for the bombs and six
six before three pointers are getting a lot of them,
and the magic John comes the other way. They have
made five out of seven of my unofficial thinking. And
you look at the stats and you guys shot just
under ten threes per game, and so to put that
(28:41):
in perspective, and that was the fifth highest in the
league at the time, put that in perspective. This season,
the Timberwolves led the n b A with over forty
one three point attempts per game. Do you ever think
about what your team would look like, what your offense
would look like if you guys had committed to the
three point shot a little bit more play play in
the style of it. Now we see the threes flying
(29:03):
in the NBA today. Mitch would have averaged about ten threes.
Of course Molly would have averaged about ten threes. I
would have averaged because I had to ball in my hand.
I'll pull up when I pull out, I probably would
have averaged about twelve threes. Like Staph for more. If
we was playing in this era. I mean sometimes they'd
be nine for twenty seven and nine for thirty in
(29:26):
the first half. I'm like, wow, you took up. You
took thirty threes in the first half, and then they
you know, some teams end up with fifty threes, fifty
five threes. I don't understand that. We Nellie, he wanted
us to put up more threes, but it wasn't conducive
to the way the game was played back then. If
(29:50):
you needed three, you stepped out there and shot at three,
or you come down you try to break somebody back
with the three, you shoot a three. Or if you
come down on fast break and they throw it back
to you the trail a guy, you should have three.
But we wasn't like concentrating on all right, we gotta
get to three point line. Some people like James Harden
and Steph Curry. They shake their man and their men
(30:11):
is inside the lane. They stepped back to shooting three.
You know, no, we would have just shot that jump
shot right there. So that's that's where the game is
changed from that. But that's you know a lot of
analytics now, you know, analytics say you gotta shoot threes,
you gotta make layups, you gotta shoot make free throws. Uh,
there's a play tim in the third quarter Away looking
(30:34):
inside the Higgins magic Artaway dribbles around, Scott comes underneath.
BA can't pass them. You drive and kick to Moli.
He drives. This is the match. Look about football nicely
over the Richmond eight. But jumper. That's beautiful passing and
it hits it. Um who hits the jumper. It felt
like a perfect example of how you guys played together
(30:54):
so well. And I know you talked about this, Um
a little bit earlier, but describe for us the connection
at this point of the nine playoffs. Described for us
the connection between the three of you. At this point,
we knew what we all could do. We knew if
somebody was driving, we would get open so he could
have an outlet for us to see. Sometimes I would
(31:16):
just drive just to just get people drawn into me
so I could pass to them. And Mulley, you know,
Mulley is is ultimate. You know, guy that's going to
pass up a shot for a better shot. So with
no hesitation, I know the player you're talking about, with
no hesitation, get in the lane, I thought to him.
He gets it. He rips it to Mitch right away,
(31:38):
without no hesitation, and Mitch was right on Q to
catch and end rhythm and he shot that thing like
you know, like we shoot around or something like that.
That's the way we play. That's that, you know. We
we played three on three together, spit it up and
get a nice part of the tree. What a me
(32:01):
Chris and Mitch was on the team together. We play
against Maria Eli and Vincent asked you Rod Higgins sharunas marshals.
We played three on three whole court and that's what
that's what we did. Like if I passed and cut
Molly and throw a bounced pass to you, you you gotta
always have your head your eyes over because he's gonna
throw a bounce pass to you. Gotta lay it up
or a jump shot or whatever. H Mitch, you know,
(32:24):
he was a guy that's gonna set screens or get
the ball and one on one and and size you
up and three d you and rock you to death.
And and if he wants to post you up, post
you up. That that's why his name is Rock. But
we practiced this every day all the time, and practice.
We just practice and just passed the ball and they
(32:44):
come off. I knew how to, you know, get them
the ball, not throw it to him, just put it
in the right spot. The only thing they had to
do is catch and shoot. Only that they had to
do was catch and curl and lay it up. So
you know, as a point guard, you try to make
it real easy for your catch and shoot play so
they won't use any dribbles. And that's why I did
for them. But you know, we did that for each other.
(33:05):
Like I said, Molly knew what he was doing. He
had passed up a great shot to get a greater shot,
and he knew that. So that's the way I mean,
that's where we were. You know, if I was on
and if I had forty and I'm coming down in
the lane, I'm not gonna force shot. I'm gonna give
it to one of my guys. You know, if a
guy come to me, I'm just not gonna force I'm
gonna give it to him because he widel That's the
(33:26):
way we played. If we shot, you know, we made three,
four or five in a row. It wasn't a heat check,
all right. If we got the shot, we'd take the shot.
We're not gonna step right over half court and shoot
it from half court. We never did that. We came
down and we ran and if we had a shot,
but our teammates knew. Our teammates knew that you was hot,
(33:49):
and we try to give you the ball. But just
in case I get the ball, I'm gonna fire. I
get the ball, but as a guy coming at me,
I'm going another guy come, I'm gonna pass for a
better shot. That's how we play, because that's how it
looked when you watch you guys. Uh, just the selectiveness,
the selectiveness of the shots. But being on fire. Chris
Mullen was on fire at the end of the third quarter,
(34:09):
and really it turned into a duel between him and Magic,
and Magic was using the size he was scoring inside man,
you drop him with the ball on the front guard
Magic against fall. Magic likes this one on one with MoMA.
He felt around him like that, I mean stronger, and
he got it. Mullen can't handle him one on one,
and not many people can. But MoMA's not getting any
help and he's mad about it. And you just got
(34:31):
fifteen in the quarter, thirty in the game, but Molly
couldn't miss. What are you going to go to, Mama?
Scott against Byron? Byron grows some jobs y, Mollin loses him, shoots,
makes it full. Scott great played by Mullen, game a
little shoulder, put on the brakes and in the junker?
(34:52):
What was it like watching those I I appreciate how
much I feel like this game happened yesterday the way
you remember it? Well? Was it like watching those two
go back and forth in those moments? Magic a fifteen
point quarter, that's the thing they brought him. Now, Magic
Johnson with the ball one of those sixty plays in
the third of all of Virus got a three point
country in the Magic Johnson against Malling again one on
(35:14):
one's around medal and he's put Magic Johnathan needling up
and spitting him out like he's gotta do so many
people in his branding career. I tell you this when
Chris Mullin got the ball, you can hit a crowd,
you know, it's like, oh, get out of his hands,
you know, make him pass, to make him do something else.
(35:35):
And you just see every time he shot. Dave's here
the three man up, thirty funner great shine, faire MoMA
to tie hi MoMA, stopped already feet out and bring
it up. He was six ft behind the three point line.
He just husted the crowd. It was like it was
like you just took the air out of that's that's
(35:55):
where That's how I used playing. That's where you'd be shooting.
And magic when they get when mad at you get,
they was like, come on, Magic, you gotta do something.
You gotta work your magic. Every time it was just
back and forth, back and forth, because I think at
one particular time they traded baskets for like about two minutes,
two minute and a half something like that. They traded
(36:16):
baskets up and down the court. Magic was going to
the whole. He was getting in one place. Chris was
coming down, you know, shooting threes, stopping popping. You know,
you go to the fake like you're going to the whole.
Stop that, you know, good thing they was taked up too,
because Molly has had some shots where they they if
they weren't taped up, they would have hurt themselves. But yeah,
(36:37):
every time Molly shot, you heard the crowd, you know,
it's like, oh, man, come on, who's gonna stick him?
It was too late, Mully. Mully was on fire. We've
talked a lot about your offense and how brilliant you
were with the ball in your hands and all the assists, um.
But in the fourth quarter you guys will collectively pick
it up defensively. But you had eight steals in this
(36:59):
game to go along with it all. One of the
skilled up another skier, hid Away. He throws it out
about hy but by he made a great sire. You
cannot show that little guy the ball. You cannot dribble
the basketball when he's around because when it goes through
the floor, it will not come back up. He averaged
over two and a half steals. Again, because if that's
in the NBA, he's already got two tonight right against
(37:22):
the Knos, another steal steel the third of the game
for hid Away. Uh, when you were playing again, you individually,
we're playing against a bigger team like this. What was
the mindset going into games like this, or just how
you were able to play and be such a thief.
At that end, it was paying attention to detail, looking
at the film, understanding where you like to be at
(37:46):
and where Byron Scott was at and making sure that
he didn't get off either. You know, you had to
be in that way where you can help, but you
can't help too much. But if you see the plate
evolved in that past, be there in the passing lane,
or be right there when you put the ball down.
But you know, I had to make sure that I
was helping and I had to make sure I was
(38:07):
closed now to Byron Scott to put it down multiple times,
because if he put it down one time and shoot,
that was that was money. But if you was on
him and he had to dribble multiple times, that that
was not his game. But yeah, I mean guys putting
the ball down where I can get it. Um. You know,
if you if a big man put it down, I'm
(38:28):
a thief. I'm gonna get it. That's where I was
brought up. That's why I taught in Chicago. You put
it down to my size, that's mine magic. You know,
when you dribble that up. You gotta be careful. I
understand you could dribble, but that one dribble that you
think that you got it is gone, you know. So
you know, all the guys got to be cogniant of
and I was just in the past lanes and but
it was it was really paying attention to details on
(38:52):
the film and watching film and watching what they like
to do, on how they like to do it. It
gets follow and they started going down the middle. I
don't tell you if you ever heard of an old
fashioned shootout, that's what this is. This is just an
old fashioned shootout. I don't think Deep has had anything
(39:14):
to do with this game. It's about off its Matney
Johnson packing the rim. Nobody comes over to step in
front of mendis him. Why not? I'll slam don't the thing?
Get me a three point play? So, as we've talked about,
Chris Mullen was incredible in this game, but he actually
made his last basket with about six minutes to go,
(39:34):
and hid Away walks the wall under the runt God.
He's against Byway scout. You know they want to get
the ball the mullon don't you wouldn't you? Are Away
gets it to mull three point three. He's made all
four that he's right out there tonight. Eight ripples he's done.
Didn't over magic and pnny one him gets another of
them mulling the greatest outside shooting exhibition I've seen in years,
maybe ever, maybe ever. That's forty points. He needs one
(39:57):
to tie his play off high and you took over
down the stretch. I love the story you told at
the beginning of just your experience the first time you
played in the arena as a rookie, maybe being a
little little star struck by it. All that changed, that
changed dramatically. As we watch you be as composed and
(40:18):
cool as ever in just your second year. What was
your just mindset in the characteristics and the way in
which you were able to mature that much, and being
so poised and so mature in that young of a
part of your career in a moment like this, well background,
coming up from Chicago, all the pressure you had really
(40:40):
wasn't pressure, but all the pressure you had growing up
playing on the playgrounds. You always want to put yourself
in that predicament to go out there and to be
ready for that type of play. I was definitely ready
for that type of play. You can look at your teammates,
you can look at the coach and staff. The coach
and staff put the you know, the keys in my hand,
and is your car drive it the way we wanted
(41:02):
to be driven. And you're the captain of the team.
You you the spokesperson of the team. Go out there
and control the temple of your ship. Don Nelson just
gave me that confidence to go out there and do it.
And then you've got Chris Mullen and Mr Richmond and
Rod Higgins, Tom Tober. You know, we go out there.
They followed my lead now and you know, of course
I followed their lead too, you know that. Of course
(41:23):
they talked to me and said, Tim, you know you
gotta look out for this. You gotta watch out for that.
You know, um, that person like to do this. Because
they were there before me, you know, so I understood
what they were saying, and I took an accountability to
how they was telling me and what they were telling
me about different guys on defense and offense, and what
they liked to do and what they didn't like to do. Yeah,
(41:44):
I mean, you know you could tell when Kristin run
out of gas. They just started playing better defense, and like, look,
we're not gonna let Chris touch the ball, you know,
and we're gonna switch. So yeah, then I had to
go into my thing and try to get people open,
just making plays to roon Is, Sharon Is making shots,
Rod Higgins making shots, Uh, Mario Ellie making shots, you know,
(42:07):
and uh, but everybody play well, you know, not just
Chris Mallin, Mitch Rich and myself. It was everybody on
that team play well. And you had to have a
team efforts to win, especially against especially against the Lakers.
Yea up next, Tim is about to tie the game
with two minutes left, and we're in for a nail biner.
(42:39):
Let me say, though, you're talking about a lot of
other other guys making shots, and you had one of
the most gorgeous plays of this game there. And I
hope you remember. I bet you remember, because first much
as you're talking about run TMC taking over the globe,
the Killer Crossover, you had kids around the world trying
(42:59):
trying to eimulate the Killer Crossover. Um that that was
something that was your trademark. And there was a play
late in the fourth there was two minutes left and
he give Byron Scott killer crossover. You go baseline, you
leave him at the three point line, uh, reverse layup
over Eldon Campbell and Sam Perkins on the harder way
(43:20):
and he's standing at three point sugar when he's under
the reverse lay up. Beautiful, beautiful. I thought you describe.
They will not less and it ties the game at
one eighteen. Do you remember that play? Oh yeah, I
(43:41):
remember that. Like I said, I remember, walk us through,
walk us through it. Um. It was just a play
where I come down. I may have made like a
jump shot before that, or or and made a play
to somebody else before that, and I come down and
Nelly was like everybody's still on that side, you know,
(44:03):
And it was like, go ahead and do your thing.
And I waited for, you know, till everybody get set,
because if they don't come across back then, like I said,
back then, the rules was different. If you come across
that line, you gotta come all the way over there
and double teaming, you gotta if you if you come
halfway over, and then you gotta get back. I think
(44:24):
as as Sam Perkins came over and then as he
went back, that's when I made my move to take
Byron to the hole, and I saw that get the
reverse in, or I would have gave it to Jim Peterson.
But if I would have gave it to Jim Peterson,
as you saw, after I made a shot, I ran
it to Jim Peterson. So that would have caused a
confusing right there, I probably would have blocked my own
(44:47):
man shot, you know, stripped them down. So I went
up then made a reverse layup and um tied it
with one a team And you know, I'm sorry, Byron,
but you know I had I mean, it was filthy, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but you know, you know you're in the Great Western
for him. You gotta do great things. Oh man, Um,
(45:11):
speaking of making plays? All right, So jump to the
end of the game. The Lakers have the ball. You
guys are down by one, and there's only a four
second difference between game clock and shot clock. Now the
Warriors got a problem. Do you follow somebody? If so,
do you fire magic? Um? You guys decide though not
to foul? Uh? And I don't know if there was
(45:31):
some confusion whether to foul not to foul. Do you
remember what was going on in that moment or what
the what the strategy was Nelly said, don't file, and
we was like, but we're only gonna have four seconds.
He's like, don't file, and he's like, all right, cool.
We gotta play good defense. We gotta play really good defense.
(45:52):
And we went out there and uh, we played a
defense that we need to play, and they kind of
didn't get the shot that they really wanted to. They
got to get the ball back to Magic Perkins has got,
in fact, the magic two good three throwers. They want
the ball and anybody's head except Campbell. They don't want
him to handle it. There's too much pressure for a
(46:13):
rookie that love and second seven on the twenty four
nine second three and the twenty four Magic Worthy from
twenty no good dog and a follow is not Campbell.
I think Cambell comes up again. Were the follows And
this is where inexperience is catching up and they're gonna
(46:35):
take the lead with three seconds left. So that's the
Lakers miss and Mario gets the rebound and gets fouled
by Eldon Campbell, and so Ellie goes to the line.
So I don't know, I may have I may have
now made a fact that Mario was the one on
the Arsenio Hall Show that predicted the win. But but
if it was him, he comes through. But do you
(46:56):
remember what's what's going through your mind when when Rios
on the line at that moment. He's a nine free
throw shooter. He's a free throw shooter. We he always
come through make uh free throws. We we if Chris
wasn't back then, you know, if you're not in the
game you came, you can't shoot the free throws. So
if Chris wasn't in the game, now that you say,
(47:18):
Mario gonna shoot the free throws, and we was like, yeah,
don't shoot the free throw Mario because he's a free
throw shooting and we knew he was gonna make both
of them. That it was. It was no doubt in
my mind. My mind, there's like, what are you gonna do?
I said, he's gonna make these two? I don't know.
I don't know, y'all talon. Now, he's still a good
that's what he does. He's a pressure guy on on
(47:39):
the free throw line. He's gonna make them. And and
then both I'm went in all net yep, you nail that.
Commonly his both free throws uh three seconds left at
this point and then the Lakers have the ball out
of bounds. You guys have at one point lead. It's baffling.
Wife Campbell is still in the game. He's not an
outside shooter. That's what you need somebody to put it up.
Glory brings it in e flat that they steal at
(48:01):
the game cover the makers blow the game. You steal
the inbounds, you come through, you get the ball, and
you throw it in the air. You celebrate um big
time played by you when you were making big time
plays all game. What is that I mean? Is that
point is is that the biggest game of your career
to this moment, not not to this moment, to that,
(48:24):
not to this moment, to that moment, that moment, no question,
that was the biggest game of my career of going
there winning in a great Western form in a playoff game,
a meaningful game in front of their crowds, and the
Warriors are happy recipients and they go home one on one,
they have home court advantage, and then despite the fact
being all rebounded, nine defeat the Los Angeles, Like there's
(48:48):
the one twenty four that was big, but you know what,
it was very very exhausting too. You know, to put
all that foref an effort into a game. And I
see why when you get that level, you gotta put
everything out on the line each and every night. You
(49:10):
gotta put one and tem percent out there each and
every night to win games. And I saw that that
game right there, and if you don't, you lose by
a lot. If you do, you give yourself a chance
to win. And that's what we did. We we. I
was tired, but I was I was elated. And that
was one of the games I thought, you know, I
thought we had one a series, but we had three more.
(49:33):
You know, you gotta win three more games. But I
was I wasn't satisfied, but I was like, wow, you
know that that was one of the biggest games that
we want. Yea at that particular point in my career. Yes,
what was it like? What was it like when you
guys went back to locker room for all of you
collectively after winning that one? Um, you know what? It
(49:53):
was great? We we we laughed, we choked. But Nelly
and and Molly and Rod Higgins and older classman, they
was like, Hey, that's just one game, you know, that's
just that's just one game. It'stop it's tied. Won one.
We just we just won a game at their home.
(50:16):
We got to go home and take care of business.
And I was like, yeah, you're right, and that and
that kind of were kind of like quiet. From that
point on, it was like back to business. Then we
we we we we celebrated from the court to the
locker room, and then once she got to the locker room,
that was it. Hey, it's over with, that's over. We
(50:37):
got to concentrate on the set the next game. We
go home, watch film tomorrow, see what we get better
at and how we can take Game three. Yeah, Game three,
the rest of the series, as you said, didn't go
your way. Before Game three, though, Run DMC performed in Oakland.
That's what happened, all right. It was a big mistake.
It was a big, big, big mistake. They introduced us
(51:00):
run DMC, introduced run TMC, and as they was introducing us,
I'm looking at Magic Magic get his team together, and
I can imagine what he's saying, like they're making a
mockery out of this and trying to make this into
a show, both type of atmosphere concert, whatever this is.
(51:23):
He brought them together and they came out and they
kicked our butts from game three, four and five. But
they that's when I knew that, Okay, it's more than
just playing a game. This is more than just playing
the game. This is you gotta understand how to win games.
(51:44):
You gotta you gotta put the forth an effort into
to knowing how to win games. And that's what I
saw once that happened, That big mistake happened, run DMC
introducing us. It was fun, but it was as eight
but and Magic made sure that it was a mistake
on our part. The trio agreed that it was a mistake,
(52:06):
having run DMC performed before Game three on NBA Roundtable
with the moderate shot. Yeah, that's right. You had run
DMC in person at the game, right performance right before
the game that might have been not been the right
thing to do. That wasn't the right thing to do. Yeah,
(52:27):
that one game and get a little carried away, right,
they forgot Magic worthy inspiring dream and you guys never
recovered from that. No, we had that game, So I
think we were in the games in the game. Yeah,
I think the experience of them down the stretch because
(52:50):
we we felt comfortable going back home and playing him,
and I think most of most of the game we
were in it, and I think probably like the maybe
the last seven or eight minutes, that's when we kind
of like, uh, you know, didn't get over the hump,
but they their experience kind of took over. But we
we felt and all of us felt that we could
beat them. You had talked about this earlier, just two
(53:12):
years next beginning of next season, Miskins traded. We went
to some tough times for a bunch of years of
Golden State. I always think it's when Mitch left, you know,
that that's that was beginning. I think so yeah, it
called everybody off guard. I thought, you know, we was
gonna be together at least a long time, you know,
and and just put the pieces together, you know, whatever
(53:35):
we needed. And I just thought that was the beginning
to the end. To your point, you know, you brought
up the Lakers. We just couldn't get past that home.
So from an organstation, different point, you got to take
a risk, right reward, huge risk. Looking back, probably a
lot a lot of people it didn't happen, But but
personally I would imagine point three. You figured if you
(53:55):
could have stayed together, you would have got the question.
You would have got him because you were just on
the custom. But when you think about those two years
and you think about run TMC, what was that moment
in time and that group, your group? What stands out
to you most about it? Friendship, camaraderie, were friends to
(54:17):
this day, families are friends. We all like family. We
get together. We just laugh, talk, laugh, talk, um, we
shoot horse. What's italian? What's where's Italian? I think Mitch up,
Mitch up on both of us. Yeah, Mitch is up. Uh,
(54:39):
but yeah, he's up. I think sometimes I think Chris
let him win a couple. But you know, I don't
get into that. But but Mitch, Mitch is up. All right,
That's that's the main thing. Mitch is up. But uh,
you know, we we we still have fun. Sometimes we
shoot up. We shoot videos of ourselves out shooting the
(55:00):
round and we're sending to each other and somebody trying
to go up and try to lay it up, touch
the glass or Mitchell try to you know, he's I
still got. I just need to get loose. I still got.
I like Mitch, you can't dump man stop it. Yeah,
but yeah, it's it's just a lot of fun. And
we think about what if we would have been together
for five six years, what will we be talking about today?
(55:24):
We'll be talking about championship when we'll be talking about
what we were talking about today. So that's stuff we
talked about, and that's what drives us and and us
having fun with each other and going to see each
other at different places. Was that the most fun you
had playing basketball? No question? The most fun playing basketball?
(55:45):
But run, timc no question. I mean they made the
game easy. They made it easy. You just go out
there and just playing. Just just give it to Chris,
give it to Mitch, you know. I mean Molley was slow.
I mean, you know, but nobody could eat up with him.
He just kept moving around, just kept moving around. People like,
does he ever stop? We like, no, he never stops.
(56:06):
He never stops. He does this in practice all day.
First of all, he practiced for an hour, then practice
after he practices. So yeah, he never stops, that's what
he does. And if you can't keep up with him,
y'all in trouble, Tim, you are extraordinary. I cannot tell
you how much I appreciated these memories, the moments, um
(56:29):
and just hearing all this from you. Soon to be
Hall of Famer. Congratulations, but more importantly a Chicago legend.
So thank you for all, for all you've done and
all you've given to the game and to all of us.
Can't take you enough for it. Thank you, I appreciate it.
I appreciate you all having me on. Thank you again.
NBA Flashback is a production of I Heart Radio and
(56:51):
the NBA. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcast world. Two
NBA Flashback is a production of I Heart Radio in
the NBA. HEYFC right here, me moy mid all the
way Banks off on. He started ri was brilliant. Here's
(00:21):
men didn't get it to Goma. Gotta face listeners. Saved
by Richmond to let us down. The woman here they
startled by Woma, distructive started West a second run TMC.
(00:47):
The Warriors trio of Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, and Chris Mullen,
along with their coach Don Nelson, changed the game. They
played fast, they had fun, and they lit it up.
It only lasted two seasons, but these three guys in
Golden State were the coolest thing in the basketball world
for a brief time in the early nineties. On today's
(01:11):
episode of NBA Flashback, we go back to May eighth,
our great producer Grace Fuse was just six years away
from being born, and thirty one years ago, Terminator two
was the biggest movie in America. The Worldwide Web first
became available to the public, and Nirvana was busy recording
(01:32):
smells like Team Spirit. The Warriors are playing the Lakers
in Game two with the Western Conference semifinals, and we're
talking with Tim Hardaway about the excitement of run TMC,
if Chris Mullen was the best shooter he ever saw
and how he used the killer crossover in this game.
We are honored to be joined by five time and
(01:54):
be All Star the man with the killer crossover, soon
to be Basketball Hall of Famer Tim Hard the way
to First off, congrats and we appreciate you being here
with us. But before we get into this uh tremendous game,
congrats on the Basketball Hall of Fame. And as we
talked about run TMC, both ms Chris have already been inducted.
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What's your feel on this honor and getting ready for that? Well,
first of all, thank you for having me on. Thank
you for the congratulations. The field is um, it's still unreal,
you know, still unreal. It's bigger than me. It's way
bigger than me. It's it's this for the city of Chicago,
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the South Side of Chicago, my parents, my brother you know,
my cousins, my uncle, all my relatives, my wife, my kids.
You know, Without them and their strength and helped me
get through a lot of things, I wouldn't be in
a predicament I mean today. So it's um to my
friends and you know all the basketball guys that helped
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me to keep my head together. Um made me go
on the right path and made me understand this is
where I didn't want to go because a lot of
people went that way. Hey, you know it's it's a
tribute to them. And uh when they say it takes
a village to raise your kid, it was a village
of a lot of Chicagoans raising me well as as
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a fellow born and raised in Chicago. You know, I
I appreciate I appreciate hearing that I grew up watching you,
admiring you, inspired by you. Um So, to get a
chance to talk with you and talk about such a
tremendous time and um a tremendous game just within a
small part of your amazing career is certainly an honor
for me. Um So, thank you for that. So before
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we get to the incredible Game two of that Western
Conference in my final, we talk a lot about run TMC.
And it's amazing to me how much everyone was just
so enamored by how you guys played and what you
guys were. But can you give us the origin story
of how run TMC came together? Well, you know, run
(04:03):
TMC came together. I guess my second year really my
first year, um the end of my first year in
we started, not only us the coaching staff, the city
started seeing a threesome that was revolving and everybody's eyes
right then and there, and how we played, the careisma
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we played with, how we kind of knew each other
movements out there on the floor. It was just a
connecting type of atmosphere for us. We practiced together all
the time, We talked about the game all the time,
We watched film together all the time. We understood what
we wanted to do out there, how to run plays,
what to look for. You know, if I see if
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I see your eyes moving, you know, you don't have
to do your hands and nothing like that, just see
your eyes of your head moved. I know want to
throw the ball to you know, I know that you're
going back door. I could you know, I could tell
that you want to love Mitch Mulley. We threw a
little lives money Chris Mullen, but you know he can't
get up that high. But we do some lives to
him too. But now you know, it was just it
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was just understanding teammates and and our team understood us
as we understood them. That's how I revolved. But it
was it was short lived. Um, you know, we we
we created a buzz and two years we we we
created a big buzz. Not across America, but across the world.
You know, a lot of people we still resonate. We
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still people still nois we I'm walking in China, somewhere Australia,
They'll be like, run to MC. I'm like, wow, okay,
that's that's that's good stuff. You know, they still know us.
And we could talk about this day in and day out.
But you know, we love to play the game. We
love to play with one another, and we knew. I
knew how to throw the ball to them. I'm running
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down the court and you can you can tell I'm
on your left, I'm on your right. I'm trailing here.
I'm trailing there, And I could just hear their footsteps
and I can hear them running, And I knew who
was who and who to get a ball too. Who
if who didn't get enough shots that game or not
enough shots that half. I knew to give shots too.
So it was just the equal dynamics that we had
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that that went with our careers, man, and we had
fun doing in it. And man, it was just short lived.
Well you're spot on, I mean legendary stuff. To think
that it was just two years and we're still talking
about today everyone. It really it really did touch everyone
worldwide real quick. Before we move on to the game.
The nickname run t MC. Where did that come from?
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We we had that was funny. We had what you
call that, not a pole, but we had people right
in with what they think we should be called. We
had over probably about say two three, maybe four thousand
letters or low nicknames or whatever. And uh, of course
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we get speed and we was looking at stuff. Now
that's not it. No, that's not it. Now, that's not it.
Steve Albert presented some of the name ideas to the trio,
the dunk and Go nuts, the dunk and Go nuts,
no triangle, Yeah nuts for Tim Hardaway. No that's okay,
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but it is running and about. It didn't take that long,
about twenty minutes. Maybe we pulled out I think it was.
It wasn't me. I think it was Chris or miss
pull out, Run TIMC. And it caught on like real quick.
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I mean you say, run TIMC. We run. We get
up and down the court quick. We try to score quick.
We're running fast, run timc. And we liked it, and
it's stuck with us. And we looked at a couple
of more names were like no, no, maybe about five
Timbore names and nothing stuck. But that really stuck with us,
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and we went from with that name, and the US
called on quick, I mean call on real quick. Well,
you mentioned the buzz. So now it's all three of
you guys are putting up huge numbers. You're selling out
every home game. You make it to the playoffs. Uh,
what was the vibe like in Oakland and around this
team and so you guys are just blowing up. I'll
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tell you this. Fans in a Bay Area no sports.
They know basketball, they know football, they know baseball. They
love their sports, and if you're not out there giving
your all each and every night, they'll let you have it.
If you're out there, you're giving your all and you're losing,
they'll stick with you through thick and thin, and they
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will you know, they encourage you. They always be positive.
But if you're not giving your absolute all, they will
not be positive towards you. I found out out quick
and it's not turning on you. They just want you
to go out there and play your best each and
every night because they come in there and they low
and them are some low fans and they know their
(09:00):
basketball out there, and the bus was simply I mean
it was great. I mean it was great. Sometimes you
can't even hear yourself. I'm talking to Nelly. I couldn't
even talking to mitche I couldn't even hear myself talk
to them, or they couldn't hear me. That's how loud
it was in there. And that it was. It was great.
It still is a great atmosphere because they know, they
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know their game of basketball and they know what call
should go what and how it should be called. And
you know shots should be going in or if you're
forcing some past the ball, Timmy, you know you shoot
too much or whatever. You know, but they and your stuff.
But they there's some great fans out there, and uh,
I love them to death. I love that. I love that. Alright,
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So playoffs start. You would beat David Robinson rod Strickling
the Spurs in the first round, um lose game one
to the Lakers in that second round. I was out
impressive win for the Lakers. They had a couple of
bus leagues never trailed, and Golden State played without Chris Mullen.
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Just not enough. The Lakers want to find one six
team in Chris Mullen had missed Game one with the
knee injury. Um but he's back for game two. How
much did that change the game plan when Molly's back
and went with you guys, well, you know when you're
missing one of your top scores, top scores in the league,
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one of your leaders on the floor that you know
you go to and he gonna make a shot, He's
gonna make a play. That really hurt us because it
was just mentioning myself and sharrunus. Chris plays a big
part of our schemes and how we want to run offense,
how we how we doing defense out there, and uh,
to be missing him, we we had to because we
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wasn't hurt all year long, you know, so we we
was playing in the style that we knew how to play,
and we was comfortable and playing and we understood what
we had to do and when we had to do it.
But when you missed that piece for a whole game,
you know, it's it's not really the same. You know
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what I'm saying that the team is not really the same.
You're missing that important piece, and we was missing that
important piece the first game, even though we played well,
we played well, we went out there and um we
lost to him, not that much. I think we lost
to him by like ten points or something like that.
But Magic had a big game. Magic was like, look,
I can't score you know, forty points and or you know,
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twenty five points and and this and that, and we
win games or we lose games. I gotta I gotta
control of the temple of the offense. And he did
that in the second game. He got out of characteristic
in the second game, and he tried to match point
by point with Chris Mullen when Chris came back. And
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when he came back the game too, you could tell
the confidence of the team went to a different avel.
You know. It was like, all right, we got a
captain back, and uh, we got one of prolific scores
in the league back. We can make something happen. The
legendary chickhern and Stu Lance had the call for this
one on the Lakers Basketball Network. Played in a hundred
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consecutive games like He's been in a fight, doesn't it
and he is a tough worker. Chris Mullen starting up
front will be christ six seven to fifteen. St. John's
six year. He can really play the game. Great palette
American International six five to ten a rookie played in
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the CBIA this year where he averaged. This guy speaks
four different languages. Arizona States Alton Listerer will start seven
ft thirty two years a day. Number one picked up
Milwaukee the last year, five years, well, the last year
he was with Seattle in the backcourt to bring you
Timmy Hardaway, El Pasto, jackas Sive second year and the
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other guard Richmond, Kansas State six five to fifteen, twenty
five years of age, third year, twice the coach of
the Year in the NBA. Don Nelson is in his
fourteen campaigns, his third as a head coach of Golden State.
I love it you. You bring up, You bring up
Magic and Molly going back and forth. Will have a
much tougher game tonight with Mullen back. He not only
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is a great player, he is their leader. He's their magic.
Johnson now with the ball Magic Johnson in the front
guard against Mullen ironically, but with the size difference and stuff,
you actually matched up against Byron Scott and then Mullen
mashed up with Magic um. But so even though you
weren't on him a bunch is you as a young
point guard in the n b A and playing against
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Magic in this series? What was that like for you?
Magic sational play? If he can do that skin move
and get away, it's one of the a charging situation.
Then he makes a nice pad, good body. That's the
point the pass where poor body didn't have to do
anything that catch and put him. What Well, first of all,
I wanted let me take you back my rookie year.
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So I'm in a great Western form, all right, So
I'm playing, I'm we're getting ready, and you always imagine
playing in a great Western form. You know, Magic, Kareem,
Jerry West, the mystique of all those guys and everything.
Then you see all the movie stars and everybody down
there on the floor at the games coming in right
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before tip off, Ken did he have a year? There's
Jack Hi Jack looking behind him, nurse too, and then
they tip it up and you know my first game there,
I was in awe. Nell you asked me, said, hey, um, tim,
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you are right, and I'm in the days. He said,
you are right. I'm like, no, he said, what's wrong?
I see it. I'm in a great West informed playing
against Magic, looking at all these stars right here. I
pitched this. This is a dream come true. And you
know what I ain't. I'm in the game. I'm in
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the game, and you know this is a time out.
He's like, take your bleep, bleep bleep over there and
set your bleep down until you get ready to play
and your mind gets into it. Let me know. I
was like, okay, all right. It took me a while.
It took me a while, but yeah, getting back to the
the game too. By that time, I was all right,
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everything was cool. I had a whole year we played there,
and then you know that season two, So I've been
played there two seasons. So I'm like, all right, cool,
I'm through it all that. Let's go ahead and let's play.
Let's you know, let's go ahead and let's let's play
and let's win this game. Yeah. You know, in the playoffs,
you could tell everything ramps up, you could tell how
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serious everybody gets. You could tell attention to detail, and
when you watch magic, James Worthy environment. Scott, those guys
that have been there, you really study that and understand
how they prepare for games, how they come out and
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playoff games instead of regular season games. It goes up
a notch. That's where it felt. They went up a notch.
We had to go up a notcher two to beat them,
and that's what we did to come down the middle. Look,
at here comes fricking Magic stop six. Magic really had
all that beautiful Yeah, well the magic man, he knows
that he had to get into the out. You were
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talking about how you guys were trying to guard Magic
in your right early second quarter. Uh, he gets hot.
He scores eleventh straight. Um, what was the game plan?
I mean, what what's the game plan against someone of
his caliber in a playoff atmosphere like that. Well, the
game plan was to pick him up full court, get
him tired, making work on defense also, but making work
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on offense, bringing the ball up. But the thing was
when we double team Vloody or when we had to
double team Sam Perkins, we that game plan was to
leave him open and let him try to make jump shots.
He was making jump shots and he was going to
the hole as the offense was revolving as he was
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running the show. He would take the ball to the
hole and make plays at the rim. Magic with the
ball back and then the model. He's gonna look for
a seventh point in a row right now. With a
shot of eight, he made seven. So it was it
was a lot of uh schemes that was going on,
and he picked apart all the schemes because he understood
what he was trying to do, because you know, that's magic.
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And once he got off to a good start and
started rolling, he kind of forgot he was the point
guard and kind of forgot his teammates and what they
needed to do for him to do to win the game,
and he became a score instead of a facilitator and
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running the show. Magic was the ball in the front
guard and made the last seven points. Magic might try
for nine. He brings a Doncatigue back into Magic. Magic
against Barcelona's what I wanted Magic around him. So and
he's got nine in a row and he had a
leven overall, and like I said, he kind of knew that,
but it was too late. He was already in the groove.
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He was already rolled. Magic now made eleven straight us
by himself as reading Barty nine and see him and
Chris Mullen go back to back, you know, and we
wanted him to stick Chris and run. We ran Chris
off of screens because we know that Magic is not
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gonna come off screens, and Chris was wide open, i say,
of the whole game. And so that's what we took
advantage of. Mullen had an observation about Magic's aggression on offense.
Magic had a huge game, magicalt three. Magic had forty four,
but very close. But the genius of Magic Johnson, when
he scored big numbers, they lost. His real gift was
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passing his teammates involved. So for the rest of that series,
he started the game getting it one involved and he
turned it around himself. You know, he made his own adjustments.
Like you said, Tim was killing who was guarding him,
but Magic kind of slowed everything down and took control
that because I think in game to the game, he
when he hit forty three and it's just huge numbers,
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but they lost. I'm gonna briefly sidetrack you were talking
about your rookie years, seeing the stars, celebrities, things like that.
This this player, you guys were the Stars. Chick Hearn
mentioned on the broadcast that a bunch of Warriors went
on the r Cineo Hull Show between Games one and
two and predicted a win. Or Hall he had a
lot of the Golden State Warriors on his show last
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night and they all said, Hey, they're gonna win. Was
that you were? You there? I was on the show,
but not that particular time. I think it was somebody else.
I think it was Mario Elliot or I know it
wasn't Chris because Chris wouldn't say that. Mitch Mario. I
can see Mario. Mario probably said that. Uh even Taverne
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Hill probably said it. But now I didn't say it.
But you know, but that's how confident we was as
a team. If one of our teammates said it, We're
gonna back it up. You know. We we that's the
way we were. If he believed that, and if he's
gonna say that on national TV, we got to come
out and do what we need to do to perform
and to make it true so he won't his peers
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or the radio, TV won't get on him. So, um,
that's what we That's that's how we used to play.
If you're gonna. If you're gonna say it, we're gonna,
we're gonna do it for you. Well, you backed it up,
and watching you playing this game, it does look like
you were not on any show and you were getting
a good night's sleep because the Lakers couldn't that they
had no one that can stop you. I mean, you
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were getting in the lane. You could do anything and
get anywhere you wanted to on the floor, right under
the basket, nice pass, basket counts, foul, beautiful pass. Higgens
gats that. I think he was followed by a C.
Green who replaced Boody. I can't say enough about Jim
Hardaway's affility to after making quick moves and his decisions
(21:22):
or right quick quis passes right on the money that
time Rod Higgins with the easy basket. Hardaway against the
Larry Grew was in their heart Away, down at heart
Away all the way stores. What was your mindset and
approach offensively in this one and for this game? Um,
I have to play better. I have to get my
(21:42):
team to play better. I have to go out there
and set the tone of the game on defense and offense.
Do what we like to do. Calls havoc on a
defensive end on offensive end, just be uh confident, play
our type of basketball motion offense, UH strong with the basketball,
(22:04):
going to the rim and making plays. And everybody, Uh
when I started the first get go of doing that,
they seemed like the whole team just went with me.
They saw that the energy, the energy has to be
up on defense and offense. You gotta lay it all
out on the line. And that's where we did that game.
You know, we came out and played hard, play really
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good defense. We were small, we rebound the ball, we
were scrappy, We got the balls, and like I said,
you know, I had to get past my man if
I had to get past one or two guys to
make it play, not to shoot the ball, just to
make a play to get somebody open. That's what I did.
And then you know, you make a play, but the
guys have to make the shot. And the guys and
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you have to feel comfortable with giving them, you know,
in confident and given your guys the ball to make shots.
And I was never uncomfortable with giving the ball to
anybody on my team, anybody on my team. And and
because I always gave him confidence. Once I got bad, somebody,
I give it to you, shoot the ball, you know,
make it and that game everybody's making it. Ride against
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Tom Tober of course match Molly myself, Sharon is you know,
we just had an all around good basketball game. I've
never seen a better extufficient of outside shots. By one
game and a quarter, they are stinging from dis beautiful
(23:34):
who were dropping dime. So you had Tennis's I don't
know if you remember in the first half your average
third team for the for the series, so you were
absolutely uh sharing the rock um. But you mentioned a
little bit you guys were a younger, quicker team. You'd
like to run, scored quick, the Lakers a little different
than their approach and trying to slow down the game
and pounding the post. But when you look at Don
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Nelson is the coach, and at the GM and just
the way you guys play and how you ran, do
you feel like he was a little bit We've seen
the trajectory of how the game has evolved in a
changed in what the NBA game looks like. Now, do
you feel like he was a little bit ahead of
his time with the style of play that you guys
looked like he was ahead of his time. This is
what he envisioned the game being played as right now.
(24:18):
That's what we was doing back in the late eighties,
well early nineties, playing this type of basketball, point forward,
point center. You know, everybody is um interchangeable on offense
and defense, playing small ball, you know, he was. He
don Nelson was the big catalyst of getting the rules
(24:39):
changed to zone because we tried to play zone doing
our ine all those years. We was trying to play
his own and we was trying to manipulate the defense
and manipulate the rules to our advantage. Sometimes we get caught,
sometimes we didn't. But Don Nelson was ahead of his time.
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He envisioned all this that's happening right now, and he
was the cause of all this that's happening right now.
And Gregg Popovitch was on our staff and he took
it to the next level when he was with the
San Antonio Spurs. And that's why everybody is really playing
this type of basketball today. Yeah, a lot of it too,
just the personnel that you had obviously being able to
(25:20):
play basically four guards spread the floor, um, and you
have some shooters. Chris Mullen was unbelievable and this one.
What was it like for you as a point guard
playing with a shooter like that. I'm gonna tell you this.
I love Steph, I love k D, I love all
(25:41):
these shooters. But when you're talking about you know, this
guy made eight in a row, this guy made ninety
in a row, we've seen that. We've seen that. Okay,
I only seen Chris Mullen not missing practice, you know,
took game shots, layups, but now missing a two hour
practice after you know, running an hour and working on
(26:05):
this game. So I didn't seen this, Just wanting again,
what an outside shooting that's officially one of that day
off Chris Ullin. It's not just Chris, it's all of them.
And so when they when they say, yeah, he made
eight in a row, I said, okay, I saw that already.
(26:28):
What can I tell you? But I'm not being trying
to say it's bad or anything like that, but I said,
it doesn't phaze me because I saw it once. Once
I saw Chris Mullen do it it, I was. I
was hyped in. I was I was like, wow, man,
you know for two hours you didn't miss a shot.
You know you you you hit eight in a row.
I'm I'm sitting down ice and down. You just made
eight ninety in a row. He was like, I did.
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I I'm like, you know what you're doing. He's like, man,
I'm just out here just getting some shots up. But
you know, that's the way Chris was. So when he's
on a role like that, it wasn't like, oh wow,
now we're like, yo, let's go. He's on the road.
Just follow his league. Right here the ball and that's
(27:13):
such a good tree mulling for three got another one
to want a shooting exhibition. He's got sixteen points and
he's got two threes. He missed one or two shots.
He missed three shots. Take seven. He's like, let's go
right behind you, mall you the catalysts. Let's go. Let's
going because he's gonna find Chris is gonna play basketball.
(27:35):
Even though he's gonna make shots, He's gonna find you
and he's gonna make plays. Is he the best shooter
you've ever seen? He's the best shooter I ever seen? Yes,
I ever seen. Yes, he's the best shooter. Yes that
I've been in the same and I've been in the
same gym at the same practice watching him shoot, watching
him go through drills. Yes, he is the best shooter
(27:56):
in this season. He shot from the field average twenty
five a game. And the crazy part it was mostly
on twenty ft jump shot. I mean it was a
ton of long twols. But um. But with that being said,
you guys start off the second half and you and
Chris Mullen hit back to back threes the game. Yes,
(28:19):
he only made forty in the entire season, made out
of the hard way. He shoots for another three, he
got it. They're gonna go for the bombs and six
six before three pointers are getting a lot of them,
and the magic John comes the other way. They have
made five out of seven of my unofficial thinking. And
you look at the stats and you guys shot just
under ten threes per game, and so to put that
(28:41):
in perspective, and that was the fifth highest in the
league at the time, put that in perspective. This season,
the Timberwolves led the n b A with over forty
one three point attempts per game. Do you ever think
about what your team would look like, what your offense
would look like if you guys had committed to the
three point shot a little bit more play play in
the style of it. Now we see the threes flying
(29:03):
in the NBA today. Mitch would have averaged about ten threes.
Of course Molly would have averaged about ten threes. I
would have averaged because I had to ball in my hand.
I'll pull up when I pull out, I probably would
have averaged about twelve threes. Like Staph for more. If
we was playing in this era. I mean sometimes they'd
be nine for twenty seven and nine for thirty in
(29:26):
the first half. I'm like, wow, you took up. You
took thirty threes in the first half, and then they
you know, some teams end up with fifty threes, fifty
five threes. I don't understand that. We Nellie, he wanted
us to put up more threes, but it wasn't conducive
to the way the game was played back then. If
(29:50):
you needed three, you stepped out there and shot at three,
or you come down you try to break somebody back
with the three, you shoot a three. Or if you
come down on fast break and they throw it back
to you the trail a guy, you should have three.
But we wasn't like concentrating on all right, we gotta
get to three point line. Some people like James Harden
and Steph Curry. They shake their man and their men
(30:11):
is inside the lane. They stepped back to shooting three.
You know, no, we would have just shot that jump
shot right there. So that's that's where the game is
changed from that. But that's you know a lot of
analytics now, you know, analytics say you gotta shoot threes,
you gotta make layups, you gotta shoot make free throws. Uh,
there's a play tim in the third quarter Away looking
(30:34):
inside the Higgins magic Artaway dribbles around, Scott comes underneath.
BA can't pass them. You drive and kick to Moli.
He drives. This is the match. Look about football nicely
over the Richmond eight. But jumper. That's beautiful passing and
it hits it. Um who hits the jumper. It felt
like a perfect example of how you guys played together
(30:54):
so well. And I know you talked about this, Um
a little bit earlier, but describe for us the connection
at this point of the nine playoffs. Described for us
the connection between the three of you. At this point,
we knew what we all could do. We knew if
somebody was driving, we would get open so he could
have an outlet for us to see. Sometimes I would
(31:16):
just drive just to just get people drawn into me
so I could pass to them. And Mulley, you know,
Mulley is is ultimate. You know, guy that's going to
pass up a shot for a better shot. So with
no hesitation, I know the player you're talking about, with
no hesitation, get in the lane, I thought to him.
He gets it. He rips it to Mitch right away,
(31:38):
without no hesitation, and Mitch was right on Q to
catch and end rhythm and he shot that thing like
you know, like we shoot around or something like that.
That's the way we play. That's that, you know. We
we played three on three together, spit it up and
get a nice part of the tree. What a me
(32:01):
Chris and Mitch was on the team together. We play
against Maria Eli and Vincent asked you Rod Higgins sharunas marshals.
We played three on three whole court and that's what
that's what we did. Like if I passed and cut
Molly and throw a bounced pass to you, you you gotta
always have your head your eyes over because he's gonna
throw a bounce pass to you. Gotta lay it up
or a jump shot or whatever. H Mitch, you know,
(32:24):
he was a guy that's gonna set screens or get
the ball and one on one and and size you
up and three d you and rock you to death.
And and if he wants to post you up, post
you up. That that's why his name is Rock. But
we practiced this every day all the time, and practice.
We just practice and just passed the ball and they
(32:44):
come off. I knew how to, you know, get them
the ball, not throw it to him, just put it
in the right spot. The only thing they had to
do is catch and shoot. Only that they had to
do was catch and curl and lay it up. So
you know, as a point guard, you try to make
it real easy for your catch and shoot play so
they won't use any dribbles. And that's why I did
for them. But you know, we did that for each other.
(33:05):
Like I said, Molly knew what he was doing. He
had passed up a great shot to get a greater shot,
and he knew that. So that's the way I mean,
that's where we were. You know, if I was on
and if I had forty and I'm coming down in
the lane, I'm not gonna force shot. I'm gonna give
it to one of my guys. You know, if a
guy come to me, I'm just not gonna force I'm
gonna give it to him because he widel That's the
(33:26):
way we played. If we shot, you know, we made three,
four or five in a row. It wasn't a heat check,
all right. If we got the shot, we'd take the shot.
We're not gonna step right over half court and shoot
it from half court. We never did that. We came
down and we ran and if we had a shot,
but our teammates knew. Our teammates knew that you was hot,
(33:49):
and we try to give you the ball. But just
in case I get the ball, I'm gonna fire. I
get the ball, but as a guy coming at me,
I'm going another guy come, I'm gonna pass for a
better shot. That's how we play, because that's how it
looked when you watch you guys. Uh, just the selectiveness,
the selectiveness of the shots. But being on fire. Chris
Mullen was on fire at the end of the third quarter,
(34:09):
and really it turned into a duel between him and Magic,
and Magic was using the size he was scoring inside man,
you drop him with the ball on the front guard
Magic against fall. Magic likes this one on one with MoMA.
He felt around him like that, I mean stronger, and
he got it. Mullen can't handle him one on one,
and not many people can. But MoMA's not getting any
help and he's mad about it. And you just got
(34:31):
fifteen in the quarter, thirty in the game, but Molly
couldn't miss. What are you going to go to, Mama?
Scott against Byron? Byron grows some jobs y, Mollin loses him, shoots,
makes it full. Scott great played by Mullen, game a
little shoulder, put on the brakes and in the junker?
(34:52):
What was it like watching those I I appreciate how
much I feel like this game happened yesterday the way
you remember it? Well? Was it like watching those two
go back and forth in those moments? Magic a fifteen
point quarter, that's the thing they brought him. Now, Magic
Johnson with the ball one of those sixty plays in
the third of all of Virus got a three point
country in the Magic Johnson against Malling again one on
(35:14):
one's around medal and he's put Magic Johnathan needling up
and spitting him out like he's gotta do so many
people in his branding career. I tell you this when
Chris Mullin got the ball, you can hit a crowd,
you know, it's like, oh, get out of his hands,
you know, make him pass, to make him do something else.
(35:35):
And you just see every time he shot. Dave's here
the three man up, thirty funner great shine, faire MoMA
to tie hi MoMA, stopped already feet out and bring
it up. He was six ft behind the three point line.
He just husted the crowd. It was like it was
like you just took the air out of that's that's
(35:55):
where That's how I used playing. That's where you'd be shooting.
And magic when they get when mad at you get,
they was like, come on, Magic, you gotta do something.
You gotta work your magic. Every time it was just
back and forth, back and forth, because I think at
one particular time they traded baskets for like about two minutes,
two minute and a half something like that. They traded
(36:16):
baskets up and down the court. Magic was going to
the whole. He was getting in one place. Chris was
coming down, you know, shooting threes, stopping popping. You know,
you go to the fake like you're going to the whole.
Stop that, you know, good thing they was taked up too,
because Molly has had some shots where they they if
they weren't taped up, they would have hurt themselves. But yeah,
(36:37):
every time Molly shot, you heard the crowd, you know,
it's like, oh, man, come on, who's gonna stick him?
It was too late, Mully. Mully was on fire. We've
talked a lot about your offense and how brilliant you
were with the ball in your hands and all the assists, um.
But in the fourth quarter you guys will collectively pick
it up defensively. But you had eight steals in this
(36:59):
game to go along with it all. One of the
skilled up another skier, hid Away. He throws it out
about hy but by he made a great sire. You
cannot show that little guy the ball. You cannot dribble
the basketball when he's around because when it goes through
the floor, it will not come back up. He averaged
over two and a half steals. Again, because if that's
in the NBA, he's already got two tonight right against
(37:22):
the Knos, another steal steel the third of the game
for hid Away. Uh, when you were playing again, you individually,
we're playing against a bigger team like this. What was
the mindset going into games like this, or just how
you were able to play and be such a thief.
At that end, it was paying attention to detail, looking
at the film, understanding where you like to be at
(37:46):
and where Byron Scott was at and making sure that
he didn't get off either. You know, you had to
be in that way where you can help, but you
can't help too much. But if you see the plate
evolved in that past, be there in the passing lane,
or be right there when you put the ball down.
But you know, I had to make sure that I
was helping and I had to make sure I was
(38:07):
closed now to Byron Scott to put it down multiple times,
because if he put it down one time and shoot,
that was that was money. But if you was on
him and he had to dribble multiple times, that that
was not his game. But yeah, I mean guys putting
the ball down where I can get it. Um. You know,
if you if a big man put it down, I'm
(38:28):
a thief. I'm gonna get it. That's where I was
brought up. That's why I taught in Chicago. You put
it down to my size, that's mine magic. You know,
when you dribble that up. You gotta be careful. I
understand you could dribble, but that one dribble that you
think that you got it is gone, you know. So
you know, all the guys got to be cogniant of
and I was just in the past lanes and but
it was it was really paying attention to details on
(38:52):
the film and watching film and watching what they like
to do, on how they like to do it. It
gets follow and they started going down the middle. I
don't tell you if you ever heard of an old
fashioned shootout, that's what this is. This is just an
old fashioned shootout. I don't think Deep has had anything
(39:14):
to do with this game. It's about off its Matney
Johnson packing the rim. Nobody comes over to step in
front of mendis him. Why not? I'll slam don't the thing?
Get me a three point play? So, as we've talked about,
Chris Mullen was incredible in this game, but he actually
made his last basket with about six minutes to go,
(39:34):
and hid Away walks the wall under the runt God.
He's against Byway scout. You know they want to get
the ball the mullon don't you wouldn't you? Are Away
gets it to mull three point three. He's made all
four that he's right out there tonight. Eight ripples he's done.
Didn't over magic and pnny one him gets another of
them mulling the greatest outside shooting exhibition I've seen in years,
maybe ever, maybe ever. That's forty points. He needs one
(39:57):
to tie his play off high and you took over
down the stretch. I love the story you told at
the beginning of just your experience the first time you
played in the arena as a rookie, maybe being a
little little star struck by it. All that changed, that
changed dramatically. As we watch you be as composed and
(40:18):
cool as ever in just your second year. What was
your just mindset in the characteristics and the way in
which you were able to mature that much, and being
so poised and so mature in that young of a
part of your career in a moment like this, well background,
coming up from Chicago, all the pressure you had really
(40:40):
wasn't pressure, but all the pressure you had growing up
playing on the playgrounds. You always want to put yourself
in that predicament to go out there and to be
ready for that type of play. I was definitely ready
for that type of play. You can look at your teammates,
you can look at the coach and staff. The coach
and staff put the you know, the keys in my hand,
and is your car drive it the way we wanted
(41:02):
to be driven. And you're the captain of the team.
You you the spokesperson of the team. Go out there
and control the temple of your ship. Don Nelson just
gave me that confidence to go out there and do it.
And then you've got Chris Mullen and Mr Richmond and
Rod Higgins, Tom Tober. You know, we go out there.
They followed my lead now and you know, of course
I followed their lead too, you know that. Of course
(41:23):
they talked to me and said, Tim, you know you
gotta look out for this. You gotta watch out for that.
You know, um, that person like to do this. Because
they were there before me, you know, so I understood
what they were saying, and I took an accountability to
how they was telling me and what they were telling
me about different guys on defense and offense, and what
they liked to do and what they didn't like to do. Yeah,
(41:44):
I mean, you know you could tell when Kristin run
out of gas. They just started playing better defense, and like, look,
we're not gonna let Chris touch the ball, you know,
and we're gonna switch. So yeah, then I had to
go into my thing and try to get people open,
just making plays to roon Is, Sharon Is making shots,
Rod Higgins making shots, Uh, Mario Ellie making shots, you know,
(42:07):
and uh, but everybody play well, you know, not just
Chris Mallin, Mitch Rich and myself. It was everybody on
that team play well. And you had to have a
team efforts to win, especially against especially against the Lakers.
Yea up next, Tim is about to tie the game
with two minutes left, and we're in for a nail biner.
(42:39):
Let me say, though, you're talking about a lot of
other other guys making shots, and you had one of
the most gorgeous plays of this game there. And I
hope you remember. I bet you remember, because first much
as you're talking about run TMC taking over the globe,
the Killer Crossover, you had kids around the world trying
(42:59):
trying to eimulate the Killer Crossover. Um that that was
something that was your trademark. And there was a play
late in the fourth there was two minutes left and
he give Byron Scott killer crossover. You go baseline, you
leave him at the three point line, uh, reverse layup
over Eldon Campbell and Sam Perkins on the harder way
(43:20):
and he's standing at three point sugar when he's under
the reverse lay up. Beautiful, beautiful. I thought you describe.
They will not less and it ties the game at
one eighteen. Do you remember that play? Oh yeah, I
(43:41):
remember that. Like I said, I remember, walk us through,
walk us through it. Um. It was just a play
where I come down. I may have made like a
jump shot before that, or or and made a play
to somebody else before that, and I come down and
Nelly was like everybody's still on that side, you know,
(44:03):
And it was like, go ahead and do your thing.
And I waited for, you know, till everybody get set,
because if they don't come across back then, like I said,
back then, the rules was different. If you come across
that line, you gotta come all the way over there
and double teaming, you gotta if you if you come
halfway over, and then you gotta get back. I think
(44:24):
as as Sam Perkins came over and then as he
went back, that's when I made my move to take
Byron to the hole, and I saw that get the
reverse in, or I would have gave it to Jim Peterson.
But if I would have gave it to Jim Peterson,
as you saw, after I made a shot, I ran
it to Jim Peterson. So that would have caused a
confusing right there, I probably would have blocked my own
(44:47):
man shot, you know, stripped them down. So I went
up then made a reverse layup and um tied it
with one a team And you know, I'm sorry, Byron,
but you know I had I mean, it was filthy, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but you know, you know you're in the Great Western
for him. You gotta do great things. Oh man, Um,
(45:11):
speaking of making plays? All right, So jump to the
end of the game. The Lakers have the ball. You
guys are down by one, and there's only a four
second difference between game clock and shot clock. Now the
Warriors got a problem. Do you follow somebody? If so,
do you fire magic? Um? You guys decide though not
to foul? Uh? And I don't know if there was
(45:31):
some confusion whether to foul not to foul. Do you
remember what was going on in that moment or what
the what the strategy was Nelly said, don't file, and
we was like, but we're only gonna have four seconds.
He's like, don't file, and he's like, all right, cool.
We gotta play good defense. We gotta play really good defense.
(45:52):
And we went out there and uh, we played a
defense that we need to play, and they kind of
didn't get the shot that they really wanted to. They
got to get the ball back to Magic Perkins has got,
in fact, the magic two good three throwers. They want
the ball and anybody's head except Campbell. They don't want
him to handle it. There's too much pressure for a
(46:13):
rookie that love and second seven on the twenty four
nine second three and the twenty four Magic Worthy from
twenty no good dog and a follow is not Campbell.
I think Cambell comes up again. Were the follows And
this is where inexperience is catching up and they're gonna
(46:35):
take the lead with three seconds left. So that's the
Lakers miss and Mario gets the rebound and gets fouled
by Eldon Campbell, and so Ellie goes to the line.
So I don't know, I may have I may have
now made a fact that Mario was the one on
the Arsenio Hall Show that predicted the win. But but
if it was him, he comes through. But do you
(46:56):
remember what's what's going through your mind when when Rios
on the line at that moment. He's a nine free
throw shooter. He's a free throw shooter. We he always
come through make uh free throws. We we if Chris
wasn't back then, you know, if you're not in the
game you came, you can't shoot the free throws. So
if Chris wasn't in the game, now that you say,
(47:18):
Mario gonna shoot the free throws, and we was like, yeah,
don't shoot the free throw Mario because he's a free
throw shooting and we knew he was gonna make both
of them. That it was. It was no doubt in
my mind. My mind, there's like, what are you gonna do?
I said, he's gonna make these two? I don't know.
I don't know, y'all talon. Now, he's still a good
that's what he does. He's a pressure guy on on
(47:39):
the free throw line. He's gonna make them. And and
then both I'm went in all net yep, you nail that.
Commonly his both free throws uh three seconds left at
this point and then the Lakers have the ball out
of bounds. You guys have at one point lead. It's baffling.
Wife Campbell is still in the game. He's not an
outside shooter. That's what you need somebody to put it up.
Glory brings it in e flat that they steal at
(48:01):
the game cover the makers blow the game. You steal
the inbounds, you come through, you get the ball, and
you throw it in the air. You celebrate um big
time played by you when you were making big time
plays all game. What is that I mean? Is that
point is is that the biggest game of your career
to this moment, not not to this moment, to that,
(48:24):
not to this moment, to that moment, that moment, no question,
that was the biggest game of my career of going
there winning in a great Western form in a playoff game,
a meaningful game in front of their crowds, and the
Warriors are happy recipients and they go home one on one,
they have home court advantage, and then despite the fact
being all rebounded, nine defeat the Los Angeles, Like there's
(48:48):
the one twenty four that was big, but you know what,
it was very very exhausting too. You know, to put
all that foref an effort into a game. And I
see why when you get that level, you gotta put
everything out on the line each and every night. You
(49:10):
gotta put one and tem percent out there each and
every night to win games. And I saw that that
game right there, and if you don't, you lose by
a lot. If you do, you give yourself a chance
to win. And that's what we did. We we. I
was tired, but I was I was elated. And that
was one of the games I thought, you know, I
thought we had one a series, but we had three more.
(49:33):
You know, you gotta win three more games. But I
was I wasn't satisfied, but I was like, wow, you
know that that was one of the biggest games that
we want. Yea at that particular point in my career. Yes,
what was it like? What was it like when you
guys went back to locker room for all of you
collectively after winning that one? Um, you know what? It
(49:53):
was great? We we we laughed, we choked. But Nelly
and and Molly and Rod Higgins and older classman, they
was like, Hey, that's just one game, you know, that's
just that's just one game. It'stop it's tied. Won one.
We just we just won a game at their home.
(50:16):
We got to go home and take care of business.
And I was like, yeah, you're right, and that and
that kind of were kind of like quiet. From that
point on, it was like back to business. Then we
we we we we celebrated from the court to the
locker room, and then once she got to the locker room,
that was it. Hey, it's over with, that's over. We
(50:37):
got to concentrate on the set the next game. We
go home, watch film tomorrow, see what we get better
at and how we can take Game three. Yeah, Game three,
the rest of the series, as you said, didn't go
your way. Before Game three, though, Run DMC performed in Oakland.
That's what happened, all right. It was a big mistake.
It was a big, big, big mistake. They introduced us
(51:00):
run DMC, introduced run TMC, and as they was introducing us,
I'm looking at Magic Magic get his team together, and
I can imagine what he's saying, like they're making a
mockery out of this and trying to make this into
a show, both type of atmosphere concert, whatever this is.
(51:23):
He brought them together and they came out and they
kicked our butts from game three, four and five. But
they that's when I knew that, Okay, it's more than
just playing a game. This is more than just playing
the game. This is you gotta understand how to win games.
(51:44):
You gotta you gotta put the forth an effort into
to knowing how to win games. And that's what I
saw once that happened, That big mistake happened, run DMC
introducing us. It was fun, but it was as eight
but and Magic made sure that it was a mistake
on our part. The trio agreed that it was a mistake,
(52:06):
having run DMC performed before Game three on NBA Roundtable
with the moderate shot. Yeah, that's right. You had run
DMC in person at the game, right performance right before
the game that might have been not been the right
thing to do. That wasn't the right thing to do. Yeah,
(52:27):
that one game and get a little carried away, right,
they forgot Magic worthy inspiring dream and you guys never
recovered from that. No, we had that game, So I
think we were in the games in the game. Yeah,
I think the experience of them down the stretch because
(52:50):
we we felt comfortable going back home and playing him,
and I think most of most of the game we
were in it, and I think probably like the maybe
the last seven or eight minutes, that's when we kind
of like, uh, you know, didn't get over the hump,
but they their experience kind of took over. But we
we felt and all of us felt that we could
beat them. You had talked about this earlier, just two
(53:12):
years next beginning of next season, Miskins traded. We went
to some tough times for a bunch of years of
Golden State. I always think it's when Mitch left, you know,
that that's that was beginning. I think so yeah, it
called everybody off guard. I thought, you know, we was
gonna be together at least a long time, you know,
and and just put the pieces together, you know, whatever
(53:35):
we needed. And I just thought that was the beginning
to the end. To your point, you know, you brought
up the Lakers. We just couldn't get past that home.
So from an organstation, different point, you got to take
a risk, right reward, huge risk. Looking back, probably a
lot a lot of people it didn't happen, But but
personally I would imagine point three. You figured if you
(53:55):
could have stayed together, you would have got the question.
You would have got him because you were just on
the custom. But when you think about those two years
and you think about run TMC, what was that moment
in time and that group, your group? What stands out
to you most about it? Friendship, camaraderie, were friends to
(54:17):
this day, families are friends. We all like family. We
get together. We just laugh, talk, laugh, talk, um, we
shoot horse. What's italian? What's where's Italian? I think Mitch up,
Mitch up on both of us. Yeah, Mitch is up. Uh,
(54:39):
but yeah, he's up. I think sometimes I think Chris
let him win a couple. But you know, I don't
get into that. But but Mitch, Mitch is up. All right,
That's that's the main thing. Mitch is up. But uh,
you know, we we we still have fun. Sometimes we
shoot up. We shoot videos of ourselves out shooting the
(55:00):
round and we're sending to each other and somebody trying
to go up and try to lay it up, touch
the glass or Mitchell try to you know, he's I
still got. I just need to get loose. I still got.
I like Mitch, you can't dump man stop it. Yeah,
but yeah, it's it's just a lot of fun. And
we think about what if we would have been together
for five six years, what will we be talking about today?
(55:24):
We'll be talking about championship when we'll be talking about
what we were talking about today. So that's stuff we
talked about, and that's what drives us and and us
having fun with each other and going to see each
other at different places. Was that the most fun you
had playing basketball? No question? The most fun playing basketball?
(55:45):
But run, timc no question. I mean they made the
game easy. They made it easy. You just go out
there and just playing. Just just give it to Chris,
give it to Mitch, you know. I mean Molley was slow.
I mean, you know, but nobody could eat up with him.
He just kept moving around, just kept moving around. People like,
does he ever stop? We like, no, he never stops.
(56:06):
He never stops. He does this in practice all day.
First of all, he practiced for an hour, then practice
after he practices. So yeah, he never stops, that's what
he does. And if you can't keep up with him,
y'all in trouble, Tim, you are extraordinary. I cannot tell
you how much I appreciated these memories, the moments, um
(56:29):
and just hearing all this from you. Soon to be
Hall of Famer. Congratulations, but more importantly a Chicago legend.
So thank you for all, for all you've done and
all you've given to the game and to all of us.
Can't take you enough for it. Thank you, I appreciate it.
I appreciate you all having me on. Thank you again.
NBA Flashback is a production of I Heart Radio and
(56:51):
the NBA. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit
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