Mike James on almost fighting Shaq, beating Cam'ron and Ma$e, and his 2004 Pistons

Ryan talks with 13 year NBA vet Mike James about making it to the League despite going un-drafted. Mike goes into detail on the time he tried to fight Shaq after a game, his high school team beating Cam'ron and Ma$e in New York, and his 2004 Pistons dominating the Lakers on the way to the title. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joey Graham. He looks at me. He said, Mike, you
was about to fight shock. I said, Man, I forget
shocked on what not?

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Everybody's scared of shock whatever. I'm mad right now. He said,
just like this to me, He said, Mike, what was
your game plan?

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Man? How's everybody doing? We want to welcome you into
man a really really cool, really special episode of the NBA
Rookie Life with Brian Hollins Man and listen, man, hold on, man,
we have an NBA World champion. Yeah you heard that,
the Duke and yes, Dukane, all time leader in stills.
This man is a New York legend. Man, and hold

(00:47):
on man. For those of the for the for the
real ones who know the Amityville poor. Come on, man,
Mike James, what's come with your baby ran?

Speaker 1 (00:56):
How you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Man?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Good to be here?

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Now, hold on, We ain't gonna just you ain't gonna
come on here all chill and you are then Amityville horror. Dog?
Where did this name come from? Dog? Because Mike, I
was a little scared of you. I was a young
guy when I came to the league. Ain't gonna liow.
I was a little scared of you, Bro. I was
a little intimidated because of the way that you played.
You were real aggressive. You You're a ferocious guard and
I was like, man, I don't want to I am

(01:21):
in a man that to men. Now, I ain't want
to get into it with you.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
You know what I'm saying the way you playing, man,
But hold on, man.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
I really feel some type of way seeing this name.
Where did it come from, Mike? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:34):
The further original Amityville Horror was a ball player named.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Shelton Jones from Amielle and he was like the man
in the eighties with the Saint John's was like the
first player from our town to go to the NBA.
And then as I started coming up, you know, I
became like that guy in the town and it's like,
you know, people started calling me like the Amityville Horror.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
But it was always that original.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
So when I went on to play, I had a
chip on my shoulder and it was almost like I
went into like a scene, you know, and I wore
that name, like I really wore that name. So I
basically felt like, I want to intimidate you when I play.
I want to be tougher than you, and I want
to scare you, almost like the movie. So it was

(02:18):
almost like when I was on the court. That's how
I treated every every ballplayer that I lined up against,
like you scared, aren't you?

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Like? I like that?

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Not for real, bro, because the one thing, you know,
I would always scout my bigs, but I like to
always consider myself, you know, the best pick a roll
big defender in the league. That now, whatever that means,
you know, I just I ain't gonna mess up no coverage.
I could run all the coverages. So like scouting you,
I'd be like, damn, he dribbles so aggressive, like it's

(02:48):
pull up to the three. You know, you hit a
three you coming out the game, or or he downhill
you get in the air on the shot. Fake he drives,
Like dude, you dribble so aggressive, Bro, Like you are tight.
I think you know we were at shoutout to Vernon
Vernon Maxwell. We're at this golture and I was telling you, bro,
like it's you and Dwayne Wade, and I probably say

(03:09):
I wouldn't say Kobe. Kobe didn't like a lot of
pick and rolls because he knew we could trap him
out of it. But like you and Dwayne Wade the
way you guys are taped picking rolls. Bro. I feared it,
Like what like, Bro, what is it?

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Bro?

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Because your your dribbles. You know a lot of times
you teach the kids driple harder to take you into
your shot, Like every time you dribbled and you had
a high release. So I'm like, I can't block the shot?
What was it? Where did that come from? It was
that part of the Amityville horror man.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
One I wasn't like being a New York guard. We
are finesse, you know, we want to cross all where
we want to.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Make it fall east.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
But I was never the type to get bodies on
the basketball court.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
I didn't have a godshamp god handle. I didn't have.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
I'm Aulburry handled. My handle was straight to the point.
And you know that's basically how I played, Like I'm
not going to play with you. I'm just going to
get an angle on you, and I'm getting straight.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
To the point. And when I was in Miami, I
think that's why.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
You can probably named Dwayne Wade because he's a you know,
he he grew up in that in that Miami, under
that Miami regime. They always taught me when you're coming
off of pick and roll, attack the big man's leaping.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Pat Rowley.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
He always he always taught us attack the big man knees. No,
big man, whenever they jump out in the pick and rolls,
they always move. If you attack me, they always gonna
move their knees out the ways.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
My man is trailing me.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
So I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure I caused that rotation.
Now that rotation changed by me getting past you. So
now I'm downhill with you know, the sides on my side,
but with the offense.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Now now it's three duckins too.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah, you you attacked my knees. I'm clipping you, dog.
That's what I'm saying. Hey, hey, real me in the
way and way. We're good now, Bro, like my rule, Mike,
you're gonna I say my rule. If you split the
pic roll and I ain't get that, I closed line you, no,
because I'm there's no help on the week's side. You're
not gonna split my pick and roll. I'm closed lining you. Bro.

(05:13):
If you go that's horrible. It's not horrible, it's almost disrespectful, bro,
because you know later towards the end of your career.
You know, the guards a lot of moves. They would
take it, especially Dwayne Wade. I got he was so
mad at me when I clipped it one time. Bro,
y'all would run with the basketball, you know, d Wade,
a lot of those, Damian Lillard, those guys would run

(05:34):
with the basketball, Chris Paul, you know, and it was
illegal ast heck. Bro. They would run with the ball
through the things. So like, no, I'm close lining you, Bro,
like im if you beat me, I'm clothes lining you.
Because you know, I'd always come out with the arms out,
pick and roll, not trying to let you through. And
I would take my hand and I would close the
gap with the guard and I would you know, I
was always you know, I would. I would kind of

(05:55):
learn a little nuances. I try to be seven feet
sideway so you you go through that. I'm closed li you, Mike.
I got to touch on something you said.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
I'm sorry, we're gonna go here. I know the show
even really got into it, but I feel like I
want to ask you, Mike, I'm sorry I'm going here.
Bro as a New York guard, why don't you get
your respect? I feel like I hear about the Marlberry's,
the Tailfairs, the Stevensons, you know, like the tens Leys, Like,
why don't you get your respect as the New York

(06:22):
Guard bro I'm going there.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I'm sorry, you know, being being from Long Island, you know,
it's always that challenge.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
They always saying that you're not from the Burroughs.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
And I played, you know, on the island, and I
think that at one point there was a lot of
guards that was above me from the guard's name, I mean,
from the Stefan Marlberry's to the you know, you you
can name, you can name all the greats that played
the game, you know, coming out of NBA, from the

(06:57):
street side to the professional side. But I just don't
think that they respected me because I wasn't in.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
The rucker, you know, grown up.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
I wasn't one of the kids that grew up playing
in Tensley Park and all the Brooklyn in the Bronx parks.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
I came and showed my face, but I was one
of those kids. When I was young, I was overlooked,
so I didn't have no name. My name didn't come
until I got I got better as I got older,
and so That's when I started gaining my credit in
the parks in New York City. But by that time,
everyone that's talked about when they talk about New York

(07:35):
Gods or New York Guards, they always talk about them
not from a professional level.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
They always talk about them from a high school and
punk level.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
And so because of that, you know, of course you're
not going to put me in that, but you can't
discredit what I've done. And for my career, I'm a
double figure scorer. For my career, I went undrafted. You know,
guys went to some of the biggest schools in college
and I was an und after playing and only playing that.
Only player that just beat my record recently was Fred

(08:06):
van Blee for being player go once drafted and average
twenty points in the NBA for a season.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
You know that's not an easy cast.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Okay, okay, you know, and you know what's funny, I
know exactly what you're saying because I'm from Pasadena and
a lot of the LA guys don't give that respect.
Oh he's from Pasadena, from LA. You know what I'm saying.
So you know, I grew up and definitely, you know,
Bed was the big homie. But like being an LA guy.
The LA guys got that respect, they got that name.

(08:35):
It was like, oh he from Pasadena, you know, like
we want a Drew League championship for the city, Me
and my boy Horse, Frank, Malcolm Thomas, all them, and
it was the mindset like Pasadena won it, Like oh no,
they not. They not l A unified, They're not l A.
So Darrell Wright shout out Darrell Man and those boys
were heated like like he did, mad at it, like

(08:55):
oh you wanted you want to drew up blah, like
even the announcements like congratulation and said, you know, like
but it's definitely I know that mindset, like you're not
gonna get I'm not I'm not I'm a Pasaden to cat.
I'm not gonna get out certa shouting to the city
of Roses. You know that respect. Hold On, Cameron and
Mace actually hooped. They were real hoopers. We're gonna find
out coming to mix from Mike James. Okay, hold on,

(09:33):
hold on, normally we like to jump, but New York City,
you had such a rich history or that hoop you
play high school ball against Cam and Mace Man, Is
that true? I gotta hold on, I gotta get the
Pollo one here. Man, get date me on this, man,
because you know we know them from the from from
the hit records. Man, But talk to me about that
shout out to their show. What were they like playing?

Speaker 2 (09:56):
I mean that game, we really couldn't judge what they
did because they didn't have their best games that game.
But I can remember one time Mace was like Mace
was bringing the ball up the court and something happened
and he had like a like a booker in his nose,
and my boy was like, Yo, my man, Yo, you

(10:18):
got something on your face. He was like, Yo, don't
worry about that, like leave that long or worry about that.
So then we was like, a you're gonna just play
like that?

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Like cool.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
So I guess it was like an intimidation back to
or something. So he played like that. The whole game
was like this booking is.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
A big one.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
And then at one point, like we was about to
scuffle with him, and Mace came up to us was like, Yo,
we could play basketball, or we could.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Do a little bit of ease. We could do a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Of the.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Well, we beat them. I had a pretty good game
that game.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
It was my sophomore year, you know, and that was
like the one of the big tournaments in New York
was the Docturnal Tournament.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
That was the last year of it.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
That's when that big stampede happened in New York City
with a Puff Daddy and all that happened. But at
that time, it was one of the biggest tournaments in
New York high school ball.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
So hold on, hold on, give me more context here.
So where Cam and Mace nice? They were? They cold?
High school was what they? What they know that they
with their team snack like, what were they?

Speaker 1 (11:20):
I'll put it this way.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
I can't speak on that because I'm from Long Island.
I didn't start playing city ball until college, when I
really started going uptown, you know, to play in like
the parks and the tournaments and the ruck and all that.
I didn't start really doing that, So I don't really
know them, you know what I mean. He talks like
he you know, he had a pretty good respect of

(11:44):
credibility in the game and a lot of good ball
players from New York. Say, yo, before Mace got into
I mean, before Cam got into the music, he was
really like one of those dudes.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
So and you got to give him some credit.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
He has some all All Conferences, he has some All
City trophies, which means that during that era, it was
a lot of good basketball players coming out of New
York here. For you to be recognized as a top player,
you know, you gotta tip your hat. But at some
point when you stop, everybody else keep going, well, then
you ain't gonna of course, you're gonna fall off. You

(12:18):
ain't gonna be the same player that you was. But
maybe if people the stuff with it, maybe he would
have started training. Who knows what would have happened, you know,
with his career where he would have been the right size,
would either have had the athleticism, you know, the skill
level at that at that stage, everyone's good. But then
you're gonna start separating yourself, you know what I mean,
when you start going to college and then trying to

(12:39):
make it to the pros.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
So we don't know. If you would have made it
to the NBA, that's a whole nother dog.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Maybe Europe maybe for sure. For sure you probably would have.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Made a playing professional ball. But you know, you've made
a hell of a career for yourself in the music business.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Okay, So so so we're clear we certifying Cam and
Mas at least at a heights school level, they would certified.
You had to bring it against them boys. They okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
So before that middle school, I can't speak after.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Seventeen, respect bro, respect man, it just seemed like New York,
you know, had so much just talent, man, just a
lot of talented brothers.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Man.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
And it's cool to see the progression. Man. All right,
now you get the du Cane brother for one. You
did you thing of du Cane. Let's fast forward. You
kill it, one of the greatest players they ever wear
the jersey there you don't get drafted? What did you
do draft day? Was there a draft party? Were you
just like if I'm drafted, I'm drafted? Dog? Was it

(13:43):
going to the league? Take me back to hold on?
How old are you there? Are you? Are you twenty one?
Twenty two year old Mike James? Man, talk to me
about draft day? Bro, because you to me, you never
forget it, you know, so I don't know where it's
still with you. But you killed du Cane. What were
the expectations and what happened from there?

Speaker 2 (14:00):
I mean they told me I was a late first
round early second round draft pick and not getting draft
Who told you that? My agent, my agent at the time,
you know agent, Oh, what was his name, Frank Martin.
It was my agent at the time, and I didn't
really understand. You know, I didn't go to no draft,

(14:21):
I didn't go to no pre draft camps, and so
no workout, so no one got to see me.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
No one knew what I was doing. They went, I
didn't get invited.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
I didn't even get invited to Portsmouth, and so I
was the first All Atlantic tank guard you know, came
out same year Katino Mobley, all those guys and those guys,
and so you know, I'm watching it on television. Don't
hear my name. I'm at my house watching it my cousin.
I don't hear my name. I'm seeing all the guys
that I killed, and you know, the school getting drafted

(14:50):
before me.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
I just go on to park and I just start playing.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
You know, on the day of the draft, you go
to the park. Bro.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it's like a park right next to my house.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
So you don't get drafted and go straight to the park.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
I just go shoot. I gotta see I gotta lest
some steam off. I don't.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
I gotta figure out what that move is. You know,
in my head, it's just like, man, this is crazy.
Like I at least wanted the opportunity. I wanted a
chance of never getting that opportunity a chance. You know,
the only thing that I had was go overseas that
first year.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Man, I'll ask this, why go overseas? Was there a
point where you go, I don't maybe this basketball thing
ain't it? You know what I'm saying. And then when
did you realize, like, hey, like I'm an NBA player,
Like you know, there's some overseas guys that never stopped

(15:41):
thinking that NBA players, And some guys go, I'm gonna
go play ten years overseas and make some good money.
I'm good man, That's that is what it is. You know.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
My first year in Europe, you know, May like thirty thousand,
didn't have no teams looking at me, and okay, won
a championship. Next year I made like thirty five forty
then okay, then the five That third year I signed with,
I signed with a team UH in France, and you know,

(16:12):
I'm starting to get MVP votes and all of this
stuff for that year. So now I'm like, okay, now
things are starting to turn. And then I played in France.
I play in France that year in nonc and no
no no, I played in Champagne and then I went
that following summer after my third year in Europe. So

(16:34):
I played three years in Europe. But I was everyone
that I played against. I was always out playing everyone.
I was always the best player in the league. I
wasn't just one of the best players. It was like,
I'm nicing in everybody not going to the league. What
I can still go to the league because no one
has shown me that there's a level that.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
I gotta get to.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Everyone is still.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
I'm still outshine, out playing everyone in the league and
guys that played in the NBA playing over there. So
then I finally get an opportunity to go play the
summer league with the Miami Heat. It was like a
It was no. I played in a Ed Pinckney summer camp. Man,
shout out, you know Ed Pinckney is who found me.

(17:22):
You know, That's how my career started. I played in
the Ed Pinckney Summer League and the first game they
didn't play me.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
We was playing against the USA Select team.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Jason Williams, Sean, Steve Blake, all those guys.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
In the US will yeah, yeah, a couple will do.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
And so the first game, you know, so it.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Was like the best players that's playing in the Ed
Pinckney Summer League playing against the USA.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
So Pinckney could set sting up like that.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Bro likely like he had a really some nice league,
you know, Miami at that time, and you know, I'm
I'm play in the first game, they don't play me,
and all of a sudden, like I'm sitting here like, man,
why the heck I come out.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Here for this bull crap? I'm mad now.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
But the head coach for the USA Select team was
Jay Wright, you know, Villanova's head coach. But he used
to coach at Hostra, which was my backyard and my
whole life growing up. You know. We used to always
go to Hostra to play against the Hostura players, and
I used to kill him in.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
High school, you know what I mean, Like I used
to always be going at them.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
So when Jay Wright saw me, he looked at Ed
Pinkey said, wait a minute, you got Mike James here.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
He said, let me tell you something.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
My one of my biggest mistakes that I've ever made
in my career. Was he was in my backyard. He
used to be coming to the gym every single day
and I didn't get him. I didn't know what he
was going to be. But when I tell you, this
is a player right now, this is a player, Like
I made a mistake not getting him. So when he
said that about me, and it's like, okay, well we'll

(18:58):
give you a shot tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
So when I get in the game, Steve Blake is
bringing the ball up. Steve Blake couldn't bring the ball
up like four straight times, like four straight times. I
ripped them right in the back court. Gotta lay up,
gotta lay up, gotta lay them. They looking at me
like like like way, they're like whoa whoa Like so
now j wooll don't want to bring ja will don't

(19:22):
want to bring the ball up.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Steed Man, I'm at look im. I was different.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
A young Mike James was like a young Mike James
was just an animal. Like I didn't understand like the
level that I was like playing that. But when you're
you know, there's getting back to it. There's three levels
in sports as an athlete. There's the level of proving yourself.
Every kid is gonna come in trying to prove themselves.

(19:47):
They they believe that they belong and they're going to
showcase that right there. Then the next level is you
want to play at your your your skill level. You're good,
you're happy, you're satisfied, life is good. You ain't gonna
do too much more. You know, you come into your
own And then there's the level of greatness. That's when
you're playing against the history of the game. See, there's
there's certain guys that they looking at they looking at

(20:09):
their opponents like I'm not even playing against you, I'm
playing against the records.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
I'm trying to do something.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
There's something so the way I trained, the way I
work out, everybody look at you like you're crazy, but
it's like no offense, it has nothing to do with you.
It's something that I'm trying to I'm trying to get
in my career. And the thing is me personally as
a player, I've only made it to have to prove myself.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
I could never get out of the proving myself.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
So every year of my career, of my life, it
was always yo. I was the fourteenth, fifteenth man and
I got to make the roster. I'm the third fourth guard,
and I got to make the roster. Now I'm starting. Now,
I'm the backup average in twenty thirty minutes. But I
don't come in with no expectations. No one, even when
I had a good season the year before, they always say, oh,

(20:59):
you're year, or you're you're a year, I'm older, Oh
you're you can't do what you did last year.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
That's just you know, that's just something, but it ain't you.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
So my big fight, my whole career was trying to
fight the fact that what y'all think I am is
completely I'm telling y'all this is real, Like.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
I'm really passing it. I really, I'm really like this.
But everybody thought that because it was me, that it
was a fraudulent not.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Man, I know exactly. And here's the thing, Like, as
for one, you are in the top, I think there's
only twenty five hundred NBA players ever, like dude, the math,
there's only twenty five hundred players that have ever played
in the NBA, so you're already a one percenter. But
my understanding was always look as a seventh footer. You know,
when I first came and said that you had to
have full seven footers, full power forwards on the team.

(21:48):
So I'm like, look, man, if I can walk intoo bubblegum,
you know, don't get in no trouble. I'm gonna give
myself a shot to play in the league as a guard.
They always says guard, you gotta do more because y'all
a diama doesn't. I can go find a six foot guard.
I can go find a six foot guard anywhere. So
what you're saying is right on point. And like, nah,
you gotta go three for four from three five to six,

(22:09):
like you can't have off days. Like, man, I understand
one hundred percent what that is. But like as a guard,
who comes in or you'll score, especially then you had
to score every single night, bro, Like you had to
get it every night. So Mike, I feel that like
that ain't that's a different level of respect. You know, Hey,
I'll bring this up. They was mad at me when

(22:29):
I had hard for MVP over Janni's why because what
James Harden was doing was impossible. Bro. Not that we're
not respecting Giannis, we're not a big fan of his
work ethic and thing, but what James Harden was doing.
Was on the impossible, hitting contested threes and having his
team in playoff contention. So I hatch off to you, brother,
So let's let's fast forward. Pat Riley gives you a chance.

(22:51):
You learn things from him. You're going to camp, you grind.
What was this like? Man? Were you just on your savagery?
Like what was on home?

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Bro?

Speaker 3 (23:00):
You finally make it, but it sounded like you don't
feel like you made it.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Getting back, getting back, you know, to the getting into
the NBA well, going to that tournament. Ed Pinckney's summer
league played well that year. Ed telling them, Yo, this kid,
Mike James, I'm telling you all, y'all gotta come see them.
So my daughter was born, went back home and while
my daughter was born, j Jamal Robinson got signed.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
He got signed from the camps ahead of me, and
I went back to Europe that year.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
So why were these guys getting signed because they were
taller than you, because you said they didn't feel like
you you could score at the NBA level, Why were
they being picked up over you? And hold on, I
gotta say this, Mike, You're an all time leader in steals.
I know you forgetting buckets. Yo, I'm laughing because you
are steals. Guy. Mike, I ain't know about the defense.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I'm a jack of all trades.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
But the thing is, in order for me to play,
especially in Miami, I had to play defense first. This
is how I got on the court. So I used
defense to get me on a court, and then I
can showcase my Then I can showcase my skill. I'm
a first knockdown open threes. So now I'm a first
run to offense. Make plays. Make people look happy about
playing with me because I'm getting the ball in the

(24:17):
right place, not turning the ball over, running offense, knocking
down open shots, playing hard defense.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Now you're going to give me a consistency. Now I
can show you my offense.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Now I can really Now I can play a little
more comfortable because you I'm known for one thing, but
now I can show you other things. And so it
was just being in Miami. Pat Riley said that next
year I signed with an I go to a three
day camp with the Heat. He says, Yo, it was
like one hundred fifty something people There's he was like, Yo,

(24:50):
killed everybody. He said, Mike, we couldn't evaluate you in
three days. Can you stay for another week. I said, yeah,
So stayed another week. They brought in about another five
to ten of free agents, killed all of them. He said, Mike,
we couldn't evaluate you in a week. Can you stay
another week? So I wind up staying the whole summer,
signing a partial guarantee that year, and then from there

(25:15):
Rod Strickland came to the team. They I was the
last cut on the in the game, I was the
last cut, and.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
I said, you know what, Okay, I made it this
far with the NBA.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
I'm going back overseas, get me some money playing a
euro League team. Now, this is what I was thinking of.
Check Cameron, who was a head scout for the Miami Heat.
He said, Mike, out of sight, out of mind, you
have shown something this year. If you if you leave now,
you will they'll forget about you.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
So I said, dang. So I went to the CBA.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
I was playing for the Rocks for Lightning with Stacey
King was the head coach.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
This is when you.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Asked me, was there ever a turning point when I
wanted to give up on the game or quit the game?

Speaker 1 (25:57):
This was the time my first five games that I
was in the CBA.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
I probably averaged about two for twenty five shooting a game.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
I couldn't hit nothing, missing layups, missing jumps. I couldn't hit.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Was that because you felt like you didn't belong there?

Speaker 5 (26:14):
What?

Speaker 1 (26:15):
I don't know?

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Mentally, Yeah, of course I felt like I didn't belong there.
But this I understood. Also, I swallowed my pride and
just this. If this is something, this is a stepping
stone in what I'm trying to accomplish in my career,
well then well I got to go this route.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
And being there, Like the first five games, I was horrible.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
I'm talking about averaging like freaking six seven turnovers.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Shooting like.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
So after one game we lost by like one two,
I shot another two for thirty one of them type games.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
I'm on the phone with my wife. I'm crying.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm like, yo, I can't do this no more. I'm like,
I can't watch this. I demand more from myself. I
put in too much work to get in the game
and see myself playing like this. So then after that conversation,
you know, She's like, hold on whatever. The next five
the next two weeks, I was Player of the Week
in the CBA. I was averaging like thirty eight fifteen assists,

(27:11):
twelve rebounds, like seven steals, like I completely like annihilated.
I was killing everybody in front of me. It was crazy.
But then actually, this is my biggest regret of my career.
Greg Popovich the San Antonio Spurs called me, this is
before Tony Parker came. Mind you, I played against Tony

(27:32):
Parker the year before it destroyed him when he was
at PSG. So Tony Parker knew me before I even came,
before he came to NBA. When I was on the
bench and he saw me, he was like because I
was like, I.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Know you, like you show me, like, don't even trip.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
So pop had like pop signed me to a ten
day and I was so excited. I called my people
from the heat and was like, Yo, I can't believe, but.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
I'm about to go to I'm about to go to
San Antonium.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Signed like are y'all Like they said, wait what, I'll
call you right back.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I ain't no nothing.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
I was like, I hung up. So then ten minutes later,
the GM calls me. It's like, Yo, We're gonna guarantee
you for the remainder of the year if you come
back and we'll like, uh, we're gonna get so in
my head, I'm a young boy.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
I don't have no I don't know who Popovich is.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
I don't know Yah yeah, yeah, yah yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
He would have freaking loved the player like me, you
know what I'm saying, on his team and he would
have probably honed a player like me. But at the
same time, when I heard that, Yo, you guaranteeing me
ten day contract, like, I gotta threw myself all over again.
I'm going back to a place that I'm already familiar.

(28:48):
I already know. I said, Man, I'm going to Miami.
And the funny thing, I signed with Miami, and you
know that's when my NBA career started.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
All right, So you get to the league, you're finally on.
You still got that chip on your shoulder. I can
feel that chip because I played my whole career with
a chip dog and you know I play hard. You
know my chip is there. Is there somebody who gave
you the absolute business, dog that you didn't see coming,
you didn't know where it was, or just dog just

(29:18):
out of nowhere? Was there anybody who just lit you up,
like man, I gotta I gotta go get this defense
thing back in alignment. Somebody who snuck you, and it
could be a big name guy. It could be somebody
people don't even think. Shoot. I always tell a story
of o'fella Harrington to big Ol'feller took me to the
other end after practice one day and warreed me out. Dog,
It wore me out, bro, was it anybody you know?

(29:40):
Once you get in kind of like you talked about
levels of this like that. He snuffed me that time,
like he got.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
And when I came back to Miami, my chest is out.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
I'm like, I'm growling.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
I'm growling at everybody at the guard position.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Now you know what I mean. Like I'm getting on
this court, but it ain't nobody stopping me.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
I used to be in practice, like man, I'm picking
you up ninety four feet, I'm gonna turn your old,
but about five six times I kill You're old. But
like this is how I'm thinking, because he was old.
You know, he was about to retire in another year
or two, and so the i'll guard him, I'll turn
him once, I'll turn him twice.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
He's gone. And I used to always be like, how
the hell do he keep beating me off?

Speaker 2 (30:27):
The tremble if I want to take it roll and
as soon as I go like this, He's gone.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
I didn't even look long.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
I'm Rod Strickland had me picking him up, not at
half court. I was meeting him at the screen. I
didn't help because he embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Me so much.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
And he's slow, he's not athletic, he's he's just skilled.
He's gonna jump this high and he's gonna get wherever
he went. And I used to be on the I
used to be in practice like how how how is
the Beth Roley used to cuss me out every day
in practice because I just couldn't guard him. And I

(31:10):
had no idea I had. He was the only person
that I had. I didn't have an answer. I couldn't
even I couldn't even define it, like what he was
doing out there, it made no sense to me.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
Man and Rod Strickler Man Rod Strickland. There's like a
group of OG's that if you know who they're your
favorite basketball player. You have a couple like Rod Strickland,
Rashi Wallace, Clifford Robinson, Big Dog, Glenn Rodber There's certain
just OG's in the game that have that unit. Nick Vanax,

(31:39):
So certain OG's got to have that love of the game.
They may have not been the highest pinnacle, but you man,
shout out Rod Strickland. He was definitely one of those guys.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Tell you another player. Tim Hardaway year my second year
in Miami, my first year, you.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Know, he was still coming around all his friends used
to call me baby Timmy. He didn't like it, though, like,
don't reminds me of you TV. Don't even mind that
baby Timmy. So he used to get bothered by that,
you know, because I used to hang around like some
of the same people with him. So we used to
go to Miami High to play. And this one this

(32:16):
one day in the gym, games are like eleven, twelve,
twos and ones. I think he scored ten and had
an assist. And he hit like a He hit it
like a Stephan. He hit like a Stephan Curry, like
the last point on one of the plays, he hit
a Stepan Curry three, like one step over. Like I'm

(32:38):
mad right now because I'm trying, my heart is to
stop him, and it's nothing I can do. He embarrassed
me so hard that day I left the gym. I
didn't return for that whole summer, That whole entire summer,
I went back home, Like, I went back home and
I trained, and all I thought of that whole summer
was him. All I thought of was that embarrassment from

(32:59):
what he did to me in that gym that day,
Like he and he's old.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Mind you, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
You gotta remember this.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
I'm the young, up and coming, little mean little stun
me hurt bone on bone. You know what I'm saying
when I tell you, he destroyed me so bad.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
He made me leave Miami.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
I went back to I went back to Texas where
I was living, and I was like, I'm done for
the summer here, I'm going home and I'm ana train
at home. But I thought of him the whole summer.
But the next summer we was back at Miami High.
I was so happy when I saw him.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
I gave him.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
I gave him like eight nine, you know, and he
is and somebody else scored one bucket. But in my
head it was like the dyption, like like, man, you're
gonna hold list today. You ain't gonna never do that
to me again. Like I felt so redeemed after that
game when I killed him. But I was a little
mad that somebody else scored one point because I wanted

(33:58):
to give him all eleven like what he did to me.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Yeah, And you know what's funny, that's when we talking
real hoop talk, because you get petty like that, bro,
Like like you, if you lose a matchup, if you
really love hoop, you're gonna be pet I never forgot
Joe Kim.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Noah from the National Championship. I never forgot him from
that game. Like if I saw Tyson Chandler, he was
I grew up watching Tyson. I was giving Tyson two
hundred percent playing against him. So you have You're absolutely right, bro,
those matchup positions, that pettiness you thinking about, you know,
you think about those guys, hey, shoot eight way back
in high school. Josh Childers. Josh Children's were down near

(34:37):
Kobe Bryant bro in high school. People don't know that
they beat us at Mayfair. I never forgot Josh Childers,
you know, I never forgot him from that day. Man,
shoutout Josh by the way, all right, and we brought
you down, man. One thing we like to do, We're
gonna bring it back up. Mike jameson Mike Mike this
is ain't your career high, but we got you going
off for thirty one piece for five thirty one to five,
little little night something like, man, talk us through this man,

(34:58):
because you had you had just said, a nice little
opportunity there in Toronto where you got a chance to cook.
When we like to call this show the NBA Rookie
Life Film Room where we watched the film. We get
to talk on the film Man, We're gonna have some fun. Man,
what was going on in this game here? Mike? Do
you remember this man? Because you know, it seemed like
you still had that chip on your shoulder dog.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
You know, playing in playing in Boston, you know, playing
with Paul Pierce, playing with those guys every day. He
was like a doghouse in practice. Shout out Marcus Banks.
Marcus Banks was one of those guys that really prepared
me because he used to go at me his rookie year,
you know when I was in Boshton with him and

(35:36):
he used to prepare me for the Game's funny story,
one time we was playing against Boston.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Paul was looking at me and Paul was like, Man,
do't blow Mike. I'm blowed.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
I said, Pete, what you talking about He said, Man,
this is crazy yo. I said what he said, man,
doctor told us, and shoot around this morning. The same
way we prepare for Alan Overson, we're gonna prepare. We're
using the same strategy that we're using for Alan Overson,

(36:11):
we use it for you. I'm sitting there like ho ho, doc,
like dog like, this is not the same player. And
I still had thirty that game. But it was such
a compliment for to be able to be able to
play at a high level and not just and not
just be not just believe in myself about my skill,

(36:35):
but not be the only one that believe in my skill.
But now the world was able to get to see me,
even if it was for one season, the world really
got to see me in my comfort zone.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
How about Mike James.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
How bout Mike James another three.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Pointer doing his Lebron James imitation's nineties got six for
six from behind the three point line.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Well, the one thing I know from playing against you, Mike,
is you had a high release, so when you got
to your midi it was so efficient that the ball
was over your hand, so even as a big man,
you couldn't get to it. You're a physical guard. You
love the contact, and then you couldn't short change or
close out because you caught that ball on top of
your head and it was gone. It was it was

(37:15):
It was a quick release. But you know, one thing
I like to teach kids is stepping into your jumper aggressively.
You would step in so aggressive. Gods can't just close
out too hard because you feel like the drive is coming. Man.
So Man, you're absolutely right, man, Man, As you bring
up a legend, Man, what was it like? Man? Did
you have a chance to square off a little against Ai?

(37:36):
Some prime Ai? You know in your time? What was
he like?

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Man?

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Because you're right, that was a that was a hey man,
Ain't too many people got the nickname you the question
to answer dog shout out, HEYI what was Ai like?

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Man? Ai?

Speaker 2 (37:50):
I always say this about who reminds me of Alan
Ibson today is John Moran. John Moran plays bigger than
what he is. He's like a seventh on the basketball court.
And that's how Alan Obson was. As small as he was,
he was so relentless. Like every possession he's determined to

(38:12):
get to the basket. He's determined, and it's like dog
like take a possession off like that's the.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Ball of somebody. But he was like a giant out there,
and so you had to match that.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
I think one of the biggest compliments that Alan Obison
gave me one game I had like a big game
against him one night before when.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
I was in Toronto. So we in Philadelphia playing and
he was matching up with me.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
I think Larry Brown put him on me and we
about to be about to do the tip off and
Alan goes up to andre Yega Dollar like I'm listening,
and he said, Man, I'm not guarding this dude tonight. Man, Yo,
you gone, Mike James, Man, I'm not chasing it.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
So I was sitting there like, okay, that's a little
respect right there.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
My peers when they knew that they was playing against
Mike James the night before.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
They didn't go to the club.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
They didn't party, They wasn't drunk, they wasn't having They like, yo,
I'm going to bed.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
I got this fool the ball like I ain't no
telling like for I.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Got this food tomorrow that's going to be full of energy,
and he's coming on both ends.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Like play. If they didn't play.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
With me, how do you feel watching today's NBA, Well,
they're like, because here's the thing that people don't know.
The league that we came into was very position based.
Your point guard would pass the basketball, your two guard
would shoot, your three guard could shoot and defend either
somewhere in there. Your power forward could hear the mill range.
It was moles. You fell into your power foard with

(39:44):
six ten, six, eight to six, and he had a
mill range. And in your center, you know, had to
be able to hold ground and rebound, so you didn't
fall into those categories. But today's NBA score sco score,
ain't no big man in the paint, no more go
get buckets. How do you feel watched in today's NB
I feel like there's a number of guys that came
up in a different era. The three ball is welcome.

(40:06):
Pull up court. If it's one on one, you hit
that side step three. These were your shots, bro. You
were shooting what we call bad shots, but you made
them consistently. These are shots. If you can't shoot them,
you can't play today's NBA. How do you feel watching it?
And what do you see with the evolution of the game,
And then you could follow up with all these big
guys gonna start hitting these threes and really change the game.

(40:28):
So you how do you feel about it? Man?

Speaker 1 (40:30):
I always make the statement. I made the statement to
you before when we was playing.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
You know, the difference between the era when we played,
the difference between the era today is when we played,
everyone was everyone had a motor, everyone played hard, everyone
had intentions on the court, but it was your skill
that separated you. Everyone wasn't the same skill level. Now

(40:56):
everyone is the same skill level, no one. You're not
going to get tricked by too many players. For when
you talk about the logistics, everyone is gonna be able.
They're gonna be fast at the guard position and could
shoot the three. There's certain caught things that you can do.
But not everyone plays with a motor, so not everyone
plays hard. So and I think that this is where

(41:16):
if I would have played the game today, not even
just the way the different ways I can score the game,
the place where it would have been where I would
have my presence would have been felt even more was
my energy, my motor. You know, I think that this
is where it would have separated me because a lot
of guys wouldn't have wanted to play against me because

(41:37):
I would have been playing at one hundred percent for
forty eight minutes, and I wouldn't have took off against you.
I would have been trying to figure out how to
turn you in the back court. I'm trying to figure
out how to take away your speed from you.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
I've never heard that that the skill would separate you
when washing today's basketball. The skill was that the motor
would separate you. Where everyone has a skill, rather than say, oh,
I would just go average fifteen to twenty. Well, averaging
fifteen to twenty is not the same thing as averaging
fifteen to twenty then, But the motor now is different
because these guys don't have the I love how you
put it. I've never heard someone say that.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Imagine not even talking about me playing the game right now.
You was considered, you know, a good backup, a good
role player. You was considered a good locker room player
during the era when the center position was a quality position.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Imagine you, outside of even being.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Able to shoot the three ball, but the way you
your motor that you played with, Finn, imagine you playing
with you ain't got change nothing about the way you
played the game. Just the way you played the game
you would be one of the top centers in the
game today.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
You know, it's funny.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Outside of like a center that can go one on
one like a Joel Embiid, you will be a center
that can catch out of us, that could rebound, got
great hands, gonna be a great defensive president.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Are you kidding?

Speaker 3 (43:05):
It's crazy? You know how everybody switched Like I used
to love God, it was easier for me to guard
the perimeter than the paint, but I had to learn
to guard paint. You know what I'm saying, No seriously.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Because guys played with the ball, and that's one of
the things I always knew what you when you come
off of pick and roll with you don't come off
playing with that ball because your hands is constantly moving
and you're gonna poke at that ball and you're gonna
get a steal, or you're gonna get a swipe, or
you're gonna make me. So it was just okay, I
know I'm playing against Ryan tonight, and I know this
food was gonna come out like crazy off a screen,

(43:38):
so I gotta attack him as hard as he attacked
me and try to get this foul.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
So you know what's funny, You saying I was trying
to scare you from doing that, and you like he
too aggressive, I'm gonna get a foul.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Fact I got I gotta get him out the game.
He too aggressive. Plus he ain't gonna let me have
no freedom. Really, I want shoot the three coming from
and I got off and turn the corner. He's gonna
make it here, gonna make do something more. So if
I'm lack of days ago, I'm gonna get a turnover
playing against.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
You, Mike. Speaking of versatile big man, I learned. I
learned every little thing I could when I got a
chance to soak it up from one of the league's
best to ever do it, Kevin Garnet. Man. When I
talk about KG, man, God bless him. Man, I feel
like I played my career got extended because of him
and the things that he taught me. You got a
chance to play with Minnesota KG. In my opinion, he's

(44:30):
the best overall player to ever play the game of basketball.
When I say the best overall player, he could shoot
the three, he could dribble, he could post, he could
fade away, he could guard all five positions. I feel
like Kevin Garnett was the most versatile player to play
the game. Michael wasn't get gonna get down and guard
your center, Okay, KG was gonna get out there guard
one through five? What was Prime Ticket? Like Mike.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Ticket?

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Crazy? You know? And I loved his energy.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
You know, you know you're going to get one hundred
and ten percent from him every single night. You know
he's going to fight on both fens and he's going
to try to do anything possible to help the team win.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
And that was the beauty about Ticket.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
You know.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
I think that he's just a winner and he.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Makes his teammates better, and he's going to give you
twenty and ten every single night. He might give you
thirty and twenty, but you guarantee twenty and ten every
single night.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
That's that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
I'm going to guarantee the feeling and the emotion, and
if there's no energy, he's going to.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Be the energy.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Did you ever feel like because I felt like this
when I got a chance to play with KG and
he was older, bro, he was thirty six, thirty seven,
did you ever feel like dang, I thought I played hard.
This joker make me got to go to another level.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
I don't think you gotta think you gotta understand though,
It's not that KG played hard. KG had a real
methodical game. He played really slow, So it wasn't that
he was playing at a fan energy. He just played
with a high motor. He was constantly moving, he was
constantly talking, he was constantly screaming and yelling.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
It was just everything about him was just a.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
You gotta play against that. So imagine somebody for forty
eight minutes is in your ear.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Just going and you just like, seriously, like I gotta
hear this. But it's like, do something about it. If
you don't like.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
It, hold on, don't don't go anywhere. We're gonna hear
the ins in and outs of the Pistons championship. Mike
James was a part of it. He's gonna let us
know how they guarded and were successful against Kobe and
Shaq coming up next on him.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Be a real.

Speaker 5 (46:41):
Lucky now, Mike, this is probably I've been waiting to
ask you about this for a long time.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
You win the championship with the Pistons. A lot of
people don't get that opportunity. Man, A lot of people
play their whole career. We want to run through. We
need the ins and outs of this because you dethroned
a dynasty over there with the Pistons. Man, talk to
me first, Shaq and Kobe, Man, what was the game
plan for those two? Did you guys feel confident that

(47:21):
you were going to win the championship? How was it
going into that? Like this was a legacy. This is
arguably the greatest duo to ever play the game of basketball,
by far, the most talented in their primes. You guys
dethrown them, the hard working blue collar Pistons. Talk to

(47:42):
me about this, Mike Man.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
You had you had first of all, when after the
trade when they brought in Rashid and myself, you had
twelve starters on one team, like and then you had
players play they rolls. Everyone started, everyone except that they rolled.

(48:04):
Everyone was crazy. But we were, we were We were
such a like a family. You know, I've never it
was the only time in my career that I experienced it.
Didn't experience it before it and never experienced it no
more again. After Rick Hamilton would get off the bus
when we get to a city, be like, yo, we'll

(48:25):
be downstairs in thirty minutes. Whoever coming to eat coming?
So it ain't no whispering, Yo, you want to go
over here, over here?

Speaker 1 (48:32):
You want to I'm a text message this one over here.
You know.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
The first round of the playoffs, when we was playing
against Milwaukee, we went out, we went out in Milwaukee
and the whole team went out and we had a section.
But we saw like two bucks over here, a couple
of bucks. But we looking like a game, like we
like all thirteen bus like this on the walls. But

(48:56):
when we used to go out, we used to go
out like a game, and it was like the most
amazing thing.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
We went to each other's kids birthday parties.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
I mean it'll be twelve people at a two year
old's birthday party, you know what I mean, Like I
never I never experienced this before. You know, it'll be
the whole crew is oh with one person's house, just
kicking it, you know what I mean. And so that
family unit was like that off the court and it

(49:28):
carried on the court. And when we played against the
Lakers at that time, we made we broke a record
for keeping teams under eighty points during the twenty four
twenty four second shot clock era. We like it was
like maybe five or six teams in a row that
didn't score eighty.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Points against us, and we had. We were so arrogant.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
It got to the point where we used to be
like yo, at the end of the season. It was like, Yo,
let's see if we can get this team not to score.
Let's see if we can stop them from scoring sixty
to night. Let's see, we're playing against Denver. Nobody on
the team Carmelo Anthony. I think that was his rookie
year when dev was one of the top teams in
the league and scoring.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
You know, nobody on.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Their team had ten points, like everyone was six five four.
So our defense was a it was crazy disarray.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Like quite frankly, we haven't seen them all year.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
It is sixty nine thirty nine. I'm flabbergasted. I am too.
But again, guess what. Detroit isn't gonna take it easy
on you. They're gonna keep drilling you. So take some pride,
get your game going back.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
We had no real defensive system. It was like Larry
Brown didn't give us no traps. We didn't practice traps.
We didn't practice thing Lindsay and I used to be.
You know, our defense used to come from Lindsay and I.
It'll come from the second unit. But we knew the
only way that we can score was if we get steals.

(51:03):
Because Larry Brown mess us out. He would say, I
already got two dunts at the guard position. I'll dang
get y'all two coming the game and shoot all the
balls also, so we all right, I want to shoot.
I wouldn't get buckets if I gotta get so I
would see Lindsey and we'll sit next.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
To each other. Rashin used to call us pit bulls.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
And I will watch the guard, and the guard would
dribble this way, dribble this way, and I belave Lindsy,
did you see that?

Speaker 1 (51:31):
And He'll be like, yeah, I bela lindsay he can't
go left. Look this is what I'm gonna do. I'm
gonna turn them.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
I'm gonna turn them three times in the back court,
and as soon as we get by half court, I'm
gonna go for the steal.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
He'd be like, I got you right. So we would
already have a game plan amongst ourselves.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
So we used to just mess the game up, you know,
And I would just pick the guard of full court,
turn them, try to go for the steal, make the
guard spin Lindsey would always get steals that way.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Rip would be at half court. You know.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
He used to get excited when I come in the
game because Chauncey wasn't playing deepense like this, you know,
so Rip knew we would get to steal and he
would be at the top of the break for the
dunk every single time. And I used to hate it. Oh,
I used to hate that, and so you know, but
it used to be filmed. When we watched teams used
to be so scared. We would have someone trapped. We

(52:22):
would have a player in the corner, one player almost
at the free throw line, and another player stepped up,
and it will be three players wide open and they
can't see no one like we used to mess We
used to mess the game up so much that everyone
used to just be like hot potato. We made the
game hop potato for everyone. And that's what So when

(52:44):
we played against the Lakers in the championship, we was like, yo,
Kobe and Shaq are great players. We can't Ben is
playing shack one on one. You know, Ben is an
undersized center.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Because Ben goes off in Game five, he dropped eighteen
eighteen points twenty two rebounds. Why would you play Shakill
O'Neill one on one with Ben Wallace talk to me.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Look before game one, Elden Campbell played with Shaquille O'Neill.
So we was we was going, we was doing shoot
around and the Lakers was coming in. So you know,
everyone's shaking hands and what's up when guys know each
other and Elden and then Shaq said to Elder, yo,
which way the double team coming from? Because I know
y'all double team in me? And Elden said, ain't nobody

(53:30):
double team in you fool? It was let Shaq do him,
let Kobe do him. The rest of the team won't
score two. The rest of y'all, y'all ain't doing nothing.
That was our game plan during that series. We can't
stop Kobe and Shaq. But I promise you this, we
not gonna let We're not gonna double team you and

(53:52):
let Derek Fisher get twenty one because of what looks.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
We're not gonna let debk. We're not gonna We're not
gonna let George get.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
We're not gonna let guys get open looks based off
of double team in Shaq and Kobe, and now they're
feeding everyone else. No, we're gonna let Shaq and Kobe
have thirty. That's sixty points. But the rest of y'all, man,
y'all gonna average ten points as a unit with the team,
so that's seventy points.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Y'all can't beat it.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Y'all can't score enough because y'all don't have no because
Kobe and Shaq don't have no help.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Detroit engines on a high mode. You know they just
ad explanation, Gooin after explanation, boy Ben Wallace.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
But the Detroit systems have just shot the Los Angeles Lakers.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Tell a coach, throw the game plan out the window,
like you're about to play park ball against us, right,
And the funny thing is, you're not gonna play with
the high the same high energy on the defensive end
with us. So we get the run whatever we want
to run. And then when we score or don't score,

(54:56):
were about to up. We want you shooting the ball
with eight teen seconds on them, just get the ball
over the court and just jacking up shots because you
think you open. But guess what you're not doing. You're
not running offense, you're not running your triangle. You can't
even get in your triangle, which means that you can't
throw three four passes back door cut him, come down him,

(55:18):
set the screen over here. He come on, No, we're
trapping you. We messing the game up, So now you
gotta speed up. And I don't think there was absolutely
nothing Kobe could have done about that. There was absolutely
nothing we I believe in my heart that Detroit Pistons
team is one of the greatest NBA Championship teams in

(55:39):
the history, Like in the history. Why because you have
ten players that in their own right was HALLI five
ball players, which means that there's no letdown. You look
at any other championship team, they only played seven seven
man rotations. May play an eight man rotation, you know

(56:02):
what I'm saying. We was able to play a twelve
man rotation. The only person that didn't play on our
team was Darko Milerchin. Other than that. Other than that,
like they basically who's miminal corps All of a sudden,
Meminal car comes from nowhere and he's killing. Then you
got dark In Ham, Then you got Eldon May did

(56:23):
a ten to ten one night. Then you have We're
not talking about one of the greatest starting five probably
ever played a game. But those guys that was coming
right behind them, You can't forget big nasty Collus Williamson.
That was fourteen and that was fourteen points in eight
rebounds every single night.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Don't care who you're playing against.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
So there was no let down on our offensive end,
and our defense got higher when the.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Bench came in the game.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
So they so everyone can rest if the normal amount
of rest, they're not playing forty two forty three minutes
extremely tired. No, because we got a rotation where you
know what, you got a pretty damn good team, or
play it.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Okay, let's let's switch over to Kobe. How good was Kobe?
Bryant dogg like, this was Kobe? This was being coming
in tight. Sean took the challenge. His length really bothered him.
I remember that Kobe still kind of got his but
it wasn't it wasn't in flow. But how good was Kobe?

(57:27):
And game plan wise? What problems did he present? You
know what I'm saying, like like cause you you look okay, Mike,
Jame's gonna get to his pull up, So don't folll
him because if you foul him, he gonna you won't
be able to guard him. Blah blah blah, like shock,
don't give up any dunks, Like how did you game
plan for Kobe? And what was he?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Like?

Speaker 3 (57:46):
People let people who don't know realize how good Kobe
Bryant was, So it's not that same We're gonna let
Kobe Bryant get his like this is just some rooty pool.
It's just like we know we're not gonna stop him.
But how good was Kobe Bryant?

Speaker 2 (58:00):
I always tell people, you know, when you try to
compare Kobe to Michael Jordan, always say Kobe was the
human version of Michael Jordan's.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Michael Jordan was a robot. Kobe was the human version.
You know what I'm saying, Like that was the difference.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Mj he a robot, like he ain't gonna ever be
a complease like stop the comparison. But you know what,
if there was anything that was similar to him, who
took the same approach as him to the game, who prepared,
who trained like he needed a job and is one
of the greatest players in the world ever, you know,
he took that approach, so the you it was hard

(58:40):
to play against him because they always make the statement
hard work beats talent when talent works hard. So imagine
when the talent works hard. Oh so, Kobe was basically
great because of the work that he put in in
his game. He was already the greatest player, still working
at something else. He wanted to be greater than what

(59:01):
he was. So you can't stop that type of mindset
when someone thinks like that, when someone works like that,
how can you stop that?

Speaker 1 (59:11):
It's impossible.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
And he basically showed you how hard he worked when
he was in the game. We got to see his greatness.
We didn't get to see the amount of work. We
didn't get to see his five ams when practices at nine.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
We didn't get to see We heard the stories we
all everybody.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Everybody talks about the stories of Kobe Bryant, the five am,
four am workouts, the twelve in the morning shots and
all of that.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
But what we only talk about is what we got
to see.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Well, shoot, man, I appreciate the time, Mike before I
get you out of here, Man, I think you gave
some gems. The one thing I like to do that
I want to be better at here on the podcast
is educating. You're the one percent of one percentage. Bro
to play ball and just to operate at a high level.
What advice would you give somebody about I think you

(01:00:01):
talked about like the chip on your shoulder, the motor
you're why you know we can feel your energy still here. Man.
What advice would you give somebody trying to make it
to the highest level of their profession of their sport. Man,
Because you've been able to do it through your work ethic,
to your grind. But how if you could give that
piece of advice back?

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. And
if you're a talented person and you work hard, that's
going to even take you up even further above on
the top.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
And I think that don't focus so much on your
skill unless you focus on your work ethic. I think
we forget to We want to play in the games,
we want to look a certain way, but we don't
want to put the work in to prepare us and
get us that way. We had a great ball him.
I look at someone like Kyrie Irvin. If you ever

(01:00:54):
watch him do his dribbling drills, Kyrie Irvan don't have
to do dribbling drills, but at the same time, he
consistently does his one finger, two three finger whatever thing,
dribbling drills that he do every single day. You know why,
because he expects to play a certain.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Type of way.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
We want to we want the talent that we see
these athletes have, but we never pay attention to what
they do in their quiet places and the hard work
that they put in to perfect their skill every single day.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
And I think that's where the kids have to get
caught up in.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
It's not the games and how good the shot goes in,
but how many makes are you making every day? How
many dribbling drills are you doing? How many what are
you doing to prepare yourself? When you see someone that
has been working as hard or harder than you, you
always supposed to believe that everyone is working harder than you,
and you can never not work hard enough. And so

(01:01:45):
as long as you keep that mindset, you give yourself
a chance.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Good good work there, man, man, I appreciate that. Yeah,
that's short and sweet into it. And Mike Man, I'm
so blessed to have you out here. Thank you for
taking your time. But where can we support you? Man?
Where can we get behind you? H and show you
some love? Right back?

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Man?

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Let the people know where they can find you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
You know, I really want to get back into coaching
again and doing individual work. So I think that's something
that has been really big on my heart, is all
the skill and the talent that I have and all
the knowledge and information that I can give to others.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
It's time now, Being that you know, business.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Is starting to be good for me, it's time now
to really start investing back into the future of this
game as well.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Where can where can people find you if they want
to reach out to you?

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Oh? Man, what is it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Who?

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Mike? Who underscored Mike James thirteen? Who Mike James?

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
I appreciate your brother. We'll have to get on the
course soon. And tap Man, thanks for taking your time. Man,
my brother, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
Min Mike, There's no there's no way, Mike. There's no way, Mike.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
We're playing against Miami.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
This is what I'm in Toronto And it was the
start of the game and Shaq said something crazy to me.
He was like, you bum like, but he's talking like
I guess he's trying to intimidate me. But he's talking
crazy and I'm looking at him like, Yo, you don't
even know me, like, how you gonna get to just
start talking about me? So now I'm angry, but I'm
angry at Shack Like now I'm not even thinking about

(01:03:21):
it no more because I'm sitting there like, yo, this
person that this dude just said I am, he gonna
have to see me on this y'ada, YadA, YadA. So
the game is going on. The game is over now, right,
we lost. I had like thirty something, but we lost
my team. You know, you know how the heat on
locker room is the heat caught is where my.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Team went into the locker room.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Shaq was at the free throw line giving his teammates
like five.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
You know, the game is over, and he's congratulating.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
I'm standing not close enough to where he can grab me,
but close enough that he can acknowledge that I'm in
his space right now. And so I'm staring at him
about thirty seconds, I just stood there and I'm looking
at him in his eyes. He don't acknowledge me, so
I walk away. This was probably the toughest walk away
I probably ever had in my life. And I'm like, daking,

(01:04:12):
I'm tough now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
So I had one teammate that was outside the locker room,
still waiting, but almost like he wasn't gonna help me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
He was just being nosy. But nobody else, everybody else
went in the locker room. Now, Joey Graham. He looks
at me, he said, Mike, you was about to fight Shack.
I said, man, I forget shock shocked.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Don't want nothing. Everybody's scared of Shack. Whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
I'm mad right now. He said, just like this to me,
He said, Mike, what was your game plan?

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Like? Look, I said, seriously.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
I grabbed him in the headliner. I said, listen, let's
not give this no energy. Let's go in this locker room.
Let's not even talk about this no more. My dude,
I was like, I was.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Like, leave alone.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
I was like, please please, I was not about to
fight shot, Like what the hell was?

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
I just state like, wait a minute, like like I
was sitting there like, oh god, I was about to
shot like serious.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
But so pretty much if he turned and acknowledge you,
there wasn't no game we went after that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
I had no game, but anger mad. I'm mad right now.
I'm only taking I'm only taking into this right now.
I'm mad.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Like that was well.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
When I came back to reality and I'm sitting here.
Man forgets Jack and he said, Mike, what was your game?

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Player?

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Oh my gosh, you know what.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Let's not talk about this no more, Joe, call you buddy.

Speaker 6 (01:06:00):
Just playing, just playing, just playing, said I just.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Oh my god. Appreciate you guys for hanging out. Man,
Do not forget, like, follow, subscribe, share the word, or
whatever we need to support. If you love this content,
or there's something you like to see more of, or hey,
I guess you'd like to see on NBA Rookie life,
shoot us a note. Love you guys. We'll be talking soon.

(01:06:32):
And guess what, I see you next week