Nerd Sesh - Knicks-Celtics Game 6 Reaction: New York DESTROYS Boston

The nerds react to Jalen Brunson, Karl-Anthony Towns and the New York Knicks' dominant victory over Jaylen Brown and the Boston Celtics to advance to the Eastern Conference Finals.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Oh my god, how could he do that?
Watch what Charles Darwin?

Speaker 2 (00:20):
The nerves is where it's at. Welcome everybody back into
Nerd Sash as always, I'm Carson Bradborn. Alongside me is
Logan Camden. You already know the drill. We've only got
one playoff basketball game to talk about today, and it
was a wild one to wrap up what has been
a wild adventure of a series, Logan, Nick Celtics was

(00:42):
just a crazy ride from start to finish. It is
a dominant win for the New York Knicks to put
away the Boston Celtics. And I'm just gonna start off
immediately putting my hand up after Game five, I said,
I thought that this series was very much not over.
I said, I thought that this specific game was a
toss up. I thought that Boston had a real chance
still and instead New York just slams the door shut

(01:05):
and bludgeons them. And to end in this one, they
advanced to their first conference finals in twenty five years? Logan,
how did they get it done?

Speaker 1 (01:14):
The first guy I want to give props to is
Karl Anthony Towns. I thought he was phenomenal in the
first half of this game, and it really felt like
that's when they put Boston away. The Knicks, I thought,
as a team did a really really good job of
turning defense into offense and making a bunch of plays.
Duce McBride has a monster block that gets turned into

(01:35):
a Josh Art and one on the other end in transition.
So one. I think the Knicks as a collective came
out here like we're at home. We're an MSG. Like
you said, we're slamming a door. We're not playing no games.
We're not letting this thing linger around. We're putting it
to bid. But Kat, to me, was the biggest difference
maker because he just got it going in such an
easy way, it seemed. And I thought Kat was going

(01:56):
to be more of an X factor throughout this series
because he is such a mismatch. He is just such
a problem to deal with against a lot of different
types of defenders. And because of Porzingis's struggles, you're getting
a lot of looks with him versus Horford and single
coverage out in the perimeter, him versus Cornett, a lot
out on the perimeter, and I thought Kat did a
really good job of and.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Him versus Smalls all the time. I mean, they were
guarding it with Wings and Drew Hall, but.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I thought he did a really good job of getting downhill,
of baiting these guys out on the perimeter on his
jump shots with pump fakes. Kat just took over, and
he made it look so effortless. Man. It it makes
me wonder like how Cat has bad games, like he's
just so inconsistent. That's really the only thing with Kat,

(02:45):
because he just made it look effortless at points in
this game, the way he flew through the lane, got
to the rim and laid it up. And I thought
it was a really good first half from some other guys.
Brunts and Bridges and Heart all really chipped in big ways.
And again I thought this defense was excellent. This game
was pretty much over in the second quarter, man, I mean,
Boston ran cold from behind the arc. Brown was getting buckets,

(03:07):
but he was turning the ball over in a big
way and just had a bunch of really bad ones.
And yeah, Boston couldn't hit a shot. I mean, I
think in the first half, Holiday and White are both
a combined two of fifteen and Brown hits three of
their four threes in the first half. Celtics not named

(03:29):
Jalen Brown shot one of fourteen from behind the arc.
And when that's such a big, you know, core of
your offense, and nobody else is pulling their weight. And
I am mad of myself too. Man. You talk about
it like I thought the Celtics were gonna come out
better than this, but the Knicks just had way more
margin and they brought the fight. I'm happy for him, though, Dude.

(03:49):
I hope New York Knicks fans don't burn down the city.
We got some good people we know who knows. I
don't know, man, what they do.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Man's prerogative it is.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'm hoping it's standing. But this is a huge moment.
I think this is the biggest moment for the Knicks
in this century.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Man.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I mean, this is a moment in time, and I'm
I don't want to look too far ahead, but Carson,
I am so amped up to rekindle this Pacers Knicks rivalry. Man.
I think we are in for one hell of an
Eastern Conference Finals.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
You never get an outcome that is this slopsided without
one team playing exceptionally well and the other team playing
exceptionally poorly. And I thought that both of those things
were true in this game. But the biggest factor that
went in the knicks favor in this game was an
advantage that they had coming into it, one that I
probably should have put even more weight into, which is

(04:38):
they had the best two players on the floor, and
they had the two best players on the floor by
far in this one. Because you mentioned, I mean, yeah,
Jalen Brown was the only one making shots for Boston
the first half. He was still awful in this game.
Jalen Brown was terrible in this game, so out of control,
the worst seven turnovers you'll ever see in your life.
But Kat and Brunson were both consistently getting to their

(04:59):
bread and stuff. Kat super aggressive, off drives, great playing
through contact. Just a huge response from him to what
was a pretty passive Game five where you kind of
looked up, especially in that second half, and you thought
he really hasn't been all that much of a factor
this one. He was aggressive from the jump and consistently
creating good shots for himself. Brunson was just carving his

(05:22):
way to his spots and the paint over and over.
And we know how incredible he is as an isolation score,
how special his touch shot making is, so he was
really locked in and efficient in this one. And it's
a big advantage to have two guys who can just
take over a game like that, and that's exactly what
these two did. But also like the guys around them

(05:43):
stepped up and it was just a barrage. It was
just one of those games where everything is going right
for one team, they look so comfortable, everything is going
wrong for the other and they look like they have
no idea what they're doing. New York was the team
in the driver's seat throughout this one. Mckel bridges is
knocking down shots. Oh Gananobi is knocking now shots. Duce
McBride is knocking down shots, who, by the way, hasn't

(06:04):
had like his one signature moment or signature game, but
it's just consistently brought these little sparks of offense. He's
shooting forty percent from three feels like you're shooting fifty
percent from three man. I mean, just consistently coming in
and making a big shot or two in his minutes.
And I thought that Josh Hart was everywhere in this game.
He was all over the offensive glass. He was making

(06:25):
great reads and facilitating creating shots for his teammates, and
so they're making shots, they're making the right reads. Their
stars are playing great, their role players are playing great.
They are winning the effort battle so convincingly, like Boston
is the team with their backs against the wall here. Obviously,
both teams should desperately want to win this game, but
New York didn't just dominate the offensive glass in this one.

(06:47):
They were still dominating the offensive glass when they were
up forty. They have that possession where they generate three chances,
frog Ananobi from three and eventually hits the third. One man,
he's not gonna miss all three of them. So it
was just a really great offense to performance from a
really good team. But it is significant because offense hadn't
come super easy for them in this series. Game four

(07:08):
was really the one instance in which they were able
to generate super efficient offense as a team. But other
than that, it was a lot of like just being
better in the clutch, staying in games on the back
of their defense. This was end to end a really
effortless offensive performance for them.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
I think Cats the guy that unlocks the offense, that
can make everything look this easy.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, he was excellent in this one, but I also
thought everybody was excellent, so it really was a great
collective performance. And this is a team that really went
all in on their starting five and seven guys. We
know that they're not playing more than seven guys. It's
those five, and then it's Mitchell Robinson, and it's Duce McBride.
This wasn't the Mitchell Robinson game, but he's been so
impactful throughout this series. But those seven guys all really

(07:53):
came through to pull this off, and especially in this game,
it was just all you needed. They didn't need a
deeper bench than that. They had the dudes who are
going to play hard, who are going to play well
on both sides of the ball. I thought that they
were also extremely engaged defensively. I thought that they were physical.
I thought McKellen og were both excellent on the defensive
end in this game. They both rack up a couple

(08:14):
of blocks. But Robinson I did think was pretty good
again guarding in space in this one. So congrats to
the Knicks, man, I mean, this is a huge achievement. Obviously,
Tatum going down kind of made things weird at the
end of this series, just kind of a weird feeling
to it. But you went up three to one with
him on the court, and you seized your opportunities late
in games and you out executed the reigning champs and

(08:37):
you beat them. You slayed the dragon, and that is
a huge accomplishment for this team that I looked at
coming into this series specifically, and I thought there's just
a couple of fatal flaws that I can't see them overcoming.
I didn't think they could defend at the level they
did in this series. That's really where things swung in
Boston also had some major issues of their own, but

(08:57):
this was a series that I viewed the Knicks as
a major underdog in and they came out on top.
And that's phenomenal and congratulations.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, And I think the context is really important when
we're talking about this series, because you're exactly right, Carson.
I mean, the Celtics could have been up three to
one when Tatum went out. They didn't take care of
business when they needed to to give them that margin
to you know, I don't want to play like butterfly
effect or something like that, because the injury happens, but

(09:27):
it's like you could have at least advanced the next round,
you know, even though if without Tatum, if you fall
like you could have at least gotten past this one,
and you didn't do enough to avoid that. This is
a really bad Celtics series from a few players though,
Like you talked about that as a result for this game.
I think it's kind of the story of this series.

(09:47):
It's like the inability of Boston's other guys to step up.
The first one was Chris tops Porzingis, and you're talking
about putting your hand up. Look, I was wrong about
a lot about both of these teams. I didn't think
the Knicks we're gonna be able to be good enough
defensively to get this far. I thought that was their
fatal flaw. I thought that was what was going to
kill them. It didn't. The thing I got wrong about

(10:09):
Boston is Porzingis is not this team's second best player.
And I this playoff run, he wasn't in their top six. Man,
I mean he was bad. He was one of the
worst players consistently on the floor for Boston. That's not hyperbole, right,
It's not me getting facetious. That's just true. Porzingis was horrendous,

(10:29):
Like I mean, do like as a baseline, like he
couldn't do simple stuff. He couldn't attack really small guards
on him, easy mismatches that he does at a regular level.
He was bad defensively, he was disengaged. Like this was
some of the worst basketball I've ever seen KP play.
And before people come in here and they go this
illness that it's like it's the playoffs. Everybody's dealing with

(10:52):
something right now, like I'm not, you gotta come through.
And it's like he was dealing with that last year
and he's still produced when he was on the court.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
So I just well, he had the I'm just saying,
what was his injury last year? It wasn't the sickness,
And like to be fair, we don't know the specifics
of the illness, we don't know how much of a
factor it is. But what I would say is regardless,
the guy was still basically unplayable. Oh it's still even below,
way below any level. That is excusable. This isn't like,

(11:20):
oh subpar, but you can see he's fighting. This is
no can't knock down a wide open three shoots thirteen
percent from deep in these playoffs, cannot get to a
decent shot, trying to attack a mismatch off of post
uff average like zero point five way too many times,
and turn the ball over, bad decisions, too much mental
stuff for it to be like, oh man, he's just sick.

(11:41):
The shots that he took in this series were terrible.
You didn't like the shots that he was getting to
so I agree, like I empathize with the guy for
the illness, but this was so much more than that, Like,
this was the worst basketball I think I've ever seen
from a player who I considered to be of Christops
Worzingis's caliber, Like truly, it was that disastrous game after

(12:03):
game for him.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, I mean he was really bad. And I thought that.
I thought that Drew Holliday was really disappointing in just
spots where he needed to step up. And it's like
this game, I mean, missing shots, you should convert man,
Like he's just not a good offensive player anymore. And
I think the Celtics need more pop than that, Like

(12:25):
he can still do the defensive stuff and he's fine
in his role when Tatum's available, But that was the
strength of this team. You know that they'd be able
to step up and have other guys that and I
think I overestimated them, Carson. I think that was probably
my biggest mistake is I thought the Celtics were deeper
and stronger than they really were, and even down Tatum,
like even more so because the level that these guys

(12:45):
were at, even if Tatum was healthy, is not to
a championship level to me. So this is a colossal
disappointment of a season for Boston. Man, And you really
wonder how open this window really is. Man. We talked
about it last game when Tatum went down, but like,
you really wonder if it's fully closed.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Are you wondering or do you just know that as
a fact? I mean, this team is going to be
blown up this offseason. Jason Tatum is probably not playing
basketball next year, which means Porzingis is gonna be off
the books. They have no incentive to hold on to
Drew at his age with this contract, He's gonna be
making thirty seven million dollars when he's almost thirty eight
years old and has clearly regressed. They want to get

(13:24):
obviously below the second apron. They don't want to be
paying these crazy taxes. Like the windows closed, I can
say that definitively. Can they reopen another one later with
a different roster around.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Maybe just never count out a team that I think
so highly of Jason Tatum that when he does get
back healthy, I think this team's gonna be right back
in the mix.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Sure, but that's gonna be a different window. That's gonna
be a different group. That's not gonna be the team
that we were looking at last year saying this is
one of the most talented top sixties we've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Person. Do you disagree with this? I would Again, I'm
not being facetious here, I would be open to giving
up anyone. Everyone would be on the table for me
if I'm Boston.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
No, I don't disagree with that. I think that outside
of maybe Derek White, I really would not want to
move off for it.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Like, yeah, a couple of those guys are on such
good contracts, but and I don't mean that they're untouchable,
like I'd be comfortable, but I would rather keep those.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Guys, right. I mean, if you're going to pay Peyton
Pritchard eight million dollars a year, you're going to struggle
to find better value than that with anybody who you
could move him for. I do want to talk about
what Boston needs to address and how I think that
they can approach things going forward. But first, I just
want to make sure that everybody gets adequately blamed and
shame for their performances, because there's a lot of blame

(14:40):
to go around. I thought that Jalen Brown was horrible
in this game. I understand if you look at the
box score, like he's the only guy who scores close
to twenty points, but man, it was so so disappointing
after game five. And I'm a Jalen Brown pessimist, and
I've thought that he's overrated, and we've talked about that
twenty of times this year. But in game five, he

(15:02):
was just doing all the right things. I thought that
he was so composed as a playmaker. I thought he
was so good in the drive and kick game. He
was spotting cutters, like he was doing everything they needed
from him, not just as a score but more importantly
as a facilitator. Then he comes into this game and
it's just like, what the hell are you doing?

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Man?

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Like, even when he scores several times, there's multiple possessions
in the first quarter where he gets caught in mid
air without a plan. There are multiple possessions when he
just flat out loses his handle in this game. There
are multiple offensive fouls that he commits. He had seven
turnovers three minutes in to the third quarter. So it's

(15:41):
so disappointing, but like, honestly, as harsh as it is
to say, this is probably closer to what I expected
from him without Jason Tatum. And I think my biggest
mistake was overreacting to Game five and thinking Kame Boston
has a real chance if Jalen Brown is playing like this.
But Jalen Brown couldn't play anything close to that level
again in this one. He just melted down as that

(16:03):
primary offensive option, and overall in these playoffs just was
not good. Gives you three and a half turnovers per game,
sub fifty five percent through shooting, he was a disaster
in fourth quarters in this series, and overall just not
an efficient score throughout these playoffs. Under fifty percent on
two pointers, thirty three percent from deep, struggled as a
jump shooter all year, and when he's also a bad playmaker.

(16:28):
That's really subpar production from a guy who I did
think played the best basketball of his life in the
playoffs last year. But I wasn't as optimistic about his
ability to replicate that as some other people were, and
I think that you see a lot of his shortcomings
in this postseason with the decision making, with the inconsistency
of the jump shot, with at times still stalling out

(16:49):
the offense himself with the ISO ball, which was wildly
ineffective for the Celtics. They went from an eighty seventh
percentile isolation offense this regular season nineteenth percentile isolation offense
in the playoffs. That's really where they lost this series
over the first couple games, just Tatum and Brown forcing
up tough shots, trying to attack matchups that they thought

(17:10):
were more advantageous than they actually were in this series.
But breaking news for anybody who needs to hear it,
anybody who was going to go out there and try
to push their Brown is the real superstar. Brown is badman.
All this dumb stuff that we've heard before, it's got
to be dead, got a little life. I saw Emmanuel
Wacho bring it back after Game five. But Brown just

(17:31):
has such major limitations when you put him in a
lead offensive role, and it's tough man, and you just
think about some of the conversations that have been had
that have been so disrespectful to Jason Tatum and also
just elevated Jalen Brown above the level that he's really at.
People were saying, this guy's better than Donovan Mitchell after
last year. They were saying he's better than Devin Booker,

(17:53):
like he's a top fifteen player. All just crazy stuff
to me. And I think that this was a really
bad year from him, end to end, and it's disappointing,
but it's not all that surprising that being said, no
one else stepped up either. Derek White didn't hit a
three in the first half of this game. He was
so massive in Game five, totally off in this one.
Drew Holliday goes one of eight. Didn't like the shots

(18:15):
he was putting up. There's one possession where he is
just insistent on trying to post up Jalen Brunson, and
like Drew Holliday is a good post up guard in
the scheme of things, but Brunson is strong, low center
of gravity, and like Holiday, takes a bump and just
puts up this terrible post fade and you're like, is
this your offense at this point? Man? It was just
a terrible shot in a terrible game from him, and

(18:37):
collectively the ball was not moving like it was in
Game five, where I thought they had such a balanced approach,
And a lot of that did start with Brown in
his ability to create shots for others that he just
could not do in this game. But nobody could hit
a shot either, so you just felt like the issues
compounding for Boston, and then they get in that mode
where it's like, Okay, I'm gonna jack up in early
shot clock three, and it's like, not going to hit

(19:00):
that shot right now, and so the game is just
gonna slip further and further away. It's really really wildly
disappointing from Boston, and obviously, like Jason Tatum isn't out
there for these last couple games, and you feel like
he was going to be your chance at coming back
in this series, and you weren't gonna have any chance

(19:21):
to progress forward meaningfully without Tatum, Like even if you
found a way out of this series, you're not gonna
get to the finals, you're not gonna win the title.
You're just not good enough without him. And so it
ends up not really mattering that they blew games one
and two like they did, but that was still exceptionally
ugly stuff and That's where Tatum does have to be
held accountable because his failures early in this series were

(19:43):
a big part of the reason that they were down
three to one. But is there a single Celtic that
you feel good about after this run? Logan? Do you
feel better about than you did a year ago?

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Today?

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Derek White? I think Derek White's earned my respect even
after a bad game. I mean, I think White Whites
are really good three Like he's he's a guy. But
that's a thing, Carson is, Like you're talking about this
different window. It makes you wonder, even if you're gonna
lose value on some of these guys, is it worth

(20:14):
moving off of some guys that are gonna have really
good value on the open micro kitka Derek White to
maybe get some future assets or certain like that. Like,
I really think Boston's gonna have to take a long,
hard look at what they've got, what they want long term,
what the team is gonna look like with a new
iteration of Jason Tatum and just trying to build for

(20:36):
the future. Man, Like you just don't know what Tatum's
gonna come back and look like you really need a
second a second player who I'm sorry It's just I
think they need a guy who's better than Jaylen Brown. Man.
I don't think Jaylen brown Is is gonna be good enough.
And I get that he was during the title run,
but I think that was so different. Man. One, I
think Boston did kind of get spoonfit an easier run, right.

(20:57):
They played way below their seeing and they still cruised
to a championship. You did get good KP, you got
good Horford, you got good White. Like a lot of things, I.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Didn't have KP for a lot of the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Well, I'm saying when he did play in the first
round and in the last round, KP was really effective
when he was because they didn't need him, right, because
all those other series were so much easier, They didn't
get the toughest opponent I thought for them in the
Western Conference last year. They walked into Dallas, right, And
so I do think things broke their way, and I
just think they need to not be afraid to make

(21:31):
any move that's on the table, man, and not be
afraid to pivot and take some big swings and retool
this thing. But I wouldn't settle for less value. But
KP and Holiday are the first guys that I'm trying
to find if there are any suitors at all, man.
But I don't know how you move off those guys. Man.
That's the really complicated thing I think about this offseason
is just finding people who would be interested in these assets,

(21:52):
because I think they all have their drawbacks. Right. There
are some positives, but I wouldn't want to pay KP
the money that I'm paying if this is the level
that you're gonna get. Same thing goes for Drew Holliday,
same goes for Jalen Brown. They're all just they all
look overpaid after this playoff run, man, And that's the
problem with trying to move off of them. And how
many games do you think they win if they stayed together?

(22:14):
How many games do you think Boston would winning the
regular season?

Speaker 2 (22:18):
They would win the win same where in the high forties.
I would say forty seven maybe. But I don't think
they are going to stay together. I really do think
that this core is going to be broken up. You
have that being said, I don't want to rewrite what
last year's team was because I don't disagree that things
broke their way in terms of them having an easy path.
That being said, I did think that they were the

(22:39):
best team in the league last year, and I did
think that they were convincingly better than everybody else, And
they were also just way better than they ended up
being this year, Like multiple guys just played significantly better.
Drew Holiday was way better last year than this year.
Jalen Brown was way better last year than this year.
And Tatum obviously wasn't at his best as a scorer
last year. But the playmaking, the rebound, the defense was great,

(23:01):
and it just ends up being like a couple of
really really bad games early in this series that put
them in this catastrophic position. There was a lot of
bad from them by their standards in these playoffs, but
I think you really have to look at games one
and two and think, man, they just should have closed
the door in both of those. To answer my own
question about do you feel better about anybody today for

(23:24):
Boston compared to a year ago, I would give a
shout out to Derek White there and say, yeah, maybe
I feel slightly better. I basically feel the same about
Jerk White. We've known that he's awesome. Prichard is the
one who I think you clearly feel better about, and
I think that although he didn't put up his same
regular season numbers in these playoffs, he's pretty close to them,
and like was just one of the more consistent sources

(23:46):
of good offense for them, elite shooting pretty good, attacking
switches and getting past the bigs with his shiftiness. So
props to those guys, But overall, it is just insane
to think about where Boston was a year ago today.
Sixty four wins in the regular season, one of the
best net ratings in NBA history, cruised to a title

(24:08):
twenty even with Tatum being off as a score more.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Twenty five point regular season victories than anybody in NBA history.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
And you would have thought, Okay, well, we are retaining
our entire core for next year, Porzingis will actually be healthy.
Turns out that's not possible. That's a myth that didn't happen.
You think Tatum will be better, you think Pritchard got
better this year, Like, these were all reasons that I
thought Boston actually could be a more well rounded and
even better team this time around than they were last year,

(24:38):
and instead things just changed so fast. And obviously the
Tatum injury is a huge component of that, and it
accelerates all of the breakups because it's like, Okay, why
are we going to pay all these guys and be
in the luxury tax as deep as we are if
we don't have a chance to win the title next year.
But it's just crazy how fast that window closed, because

(24:58):
I would have confidently said the twenty twenty four Celtics
coming back in twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six
will be one of the top title favorites, not the
favorite necessarily, but strongly in the mix. And now they
lose disappointingly in the second round this year and next year,
I don't think if they're going to figure into that
picture whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
I don't either, So it sucks. Man. I feel bad
for Boston fans. Ironically, I never thought i'd be saying that.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
I mean, I feel bad for him, dude, are you
kidding me? It's just like so many things raining down
on you at once, this disasser of a series, and
then the Tatum injury is worse than all of it
because the Tatum injury like takes it so far beyond.
Oh man, we had a terrible series. It's like, Okay,
now this thing is over. This thing as we know
it is over. I do.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
I'm sorry last thing. I just I do. Hope this
makes people appreciate Jason Tatum.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, I hope it does too. It probably won't, maybe,
well maybe for a couple of days. I think you
presume that Tatum doesn't play next season. The average Achilles
recovery timeline in the NBA is ten months, but that
would put him coming back late in the regular season
next year. I just think it's kind of a crazy target.
He's gonna have to come almost straight back into playoff basketball.

(26:17):
And if you look at the guy who had the
most successful recovery, it's Kevin Durant, who got a year
and a half off, who got more time off. So
this is still by far the most dangerous injury for
an NBA player. This has been a career ender many
many times over throughout league history. The track record has
gotten better in recent years. Katie is the most encouraging example,

(26:39):
but there is still not a more concerning injury. Tatum's
twenty seven. He's got time, hopefully, and he's young enough
to recover fully from this injury. But I just wouldn't
take chances with it. I think you just punt on
next year, all things considered, and then the two guys
who you look at trying to move our Porzingis and Drew.
I just don't know what package you're getting back for
either one them. I think they honestly might both be

(27:02):
negative assets. Like KP is never available, he's expiring at
thirty million dollars, like nobody's gonna view him as a
building block for them. I don't even know if there's
any market at all. I think you legitimately might have
to attach something to him. I don't know. It was
just such a disastrous end of the season for him.
And then Drew, like I said, he's gonna be making

(27:24):
thirty seven million dollars in twenty twenty eight. This is
a guy who is now struggling to give you ten
points per game of production. Still an awesome defensive player,
still does some of those winning things for you at
such a high level, but he's just lost so much
offensive juice. He's not worth that kind of money. So
I think it's worth exploring because neither of those guys

(27:46):
are meaningful parts of the Celtics future. KP is going
to be gone after next year, no matter what. They
can't pay him. They want to get off of Drew's money,
and I guess you just test the waters and see
what the hell you can get. But there's really not
an outcome that I like for them here because I
think that moving off those guys is basically just cutting
costs and taking whatever scraps you get back. You're not

(28:07):
getting back like some awesome player. I do think for
Drew or KP.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
I think you have to shit salary though.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, And I think that that's going to be a
top priority of Celtics ownership and management sharing that.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
I think KP is probably the less likely guy to
get moved though, because I just don't know who would
want him at a thirty million dollar price tag this
year on and expiring, you know what I mean, Because
you have to give up assets for somebody that you
don't even know if he's going to want to come
back to you. So I think he's probably harder to move.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah. I think that it would have to be like
a team that just has the space to eat up
a contract like that, like legitimately, I think it's probably
you're looking at a rebuilding team. I don't think that
there's a contender out there who is like, yeah, we'll
give up actual players for KP because I just don't
know how you can bank on him being healthy being

(28:57):
the player you need him to be in a postseason
like this really really discouraging. I would also be open
to trading Jalen Brown just because he makes so much
money and paying a guy of his caliber fifty five
eventually sixty five million dollars, it does constrain your ability
to build an elite roster, which I do think the

(29:19):
Celtics really really need around this Tatum and Brown dual.
I think they need a team like we saw last year,
where they have elite defenders all around, they have elite
shooting all around, they have multiple guys who can really
handle the ball and create alongside them. Those two alone
are not the sole foundation of a great team, and
there are actually stars out there who I think fit

(29:39):
better alongside Tatum, because you can get in these stretches
where it's like you are bogged down by having these
two wings who are both trying to isolate in attack
mismatches and who aren't necessarily the most natural playmakers. I
do think that Tatum has grown into being a really
good playmaker, but you still saw some of the tendencies
with him early in this series, being a little bit
too in client to force some of those shots that

(30:01):
you don't really like. I don't think the Celtics are
gonna explore trading Jalen Brown, but I just would not
close that door. I'm not saying you force it, but
he's a guy who could actually get you a haul
back and you'd be more flexible getting off that contract
find a better fit. If there's a deal out there
that is good enough, I would take it like I would.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Because it opens up flexibility for you to make moves
when Tatum is back healthy, Like you're not gonna have
that behemoth of a contract to move when he's back,
and you're gonna have some maneuverability. I thought of a
KP trade idea Carson. It's pretty stupid.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
But who says no, washing machine team giving up the
washing machine?

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Says no, No, they're actually giving up a decent player
straight up. Christaps porzingis for Tobias Harris, who says no.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Hmmm, that's interesting. I don't think the Pistons would do that,
if I'm being honest, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
I don't think they would either. I think KP stock
has dropped so low man.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
I also think it just has to do with like
positional needs, Like I think they have to feel really
good about Duran right now, and like you could try
to have KP as your four. We see him play
alongside Cornette, we see him play with Horford, he can
play in double big.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
I mean, you're just trying to think about competitive because
you were talking about rebuilding teams. I feel like the
team that would really be incentivized to trade for KP
as a team that's like a at the bottom of
the playoffs right now that want to make a yeah,
a decent move that if he was healthy, could could
potentially win him a playoff series. So Detroit was the
first one I thought of.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
I think that they have to be a team though,
who really feels the need to upgrade at center. And
there's not really anybody who immediately comes to mind, And again,
like what are they going to give up? What are
you really getting back? It's tough, man. He has really
tanked his value at the end of this year. So

(31:59):
obviously I'm very hopeful that Jason Tatum comes back the
same player that we saw this year, which was the
best version of him that we've ever seen. I thought
was a top five player this regular season for sure.
You never know. Unfortunately with an achilles and like, we
just don't know what the team around him is going
to look like. I think that Jalen Brown and Derek
White will still be there. Outside of that, Pritchard I

(32:21):
think will still be their howser. I think will still
be there because they're on good contracts. But Al Horford
might retire, he might be done. That is not an
insignificant loss for them. He has been such a stabilizing force.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
I got one more okay, KP to Chicago for v.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
And no, no, all right, the KP for voot swap.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
I mean is gonna play the Celtics. I feel like
need another rotational big man who's a little cheaper.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
I just think that's not the direction they want to go.
They would be getting a guy who's a little cheaper.
But I don't know. If there's one thing that you've
been able to bank on with the Celtics team really
in the entire Tatum Brown era, it's that elite team defense.
I think that Vooch compromises that. Like KP was not
good defensively in this run, at least he's an elite

(33:14):
rimp protector, and if Horford is done, he's been such
a valuable option for them to go to to have
that switch. They got a pay Cornett. They got to
pay Cornett this offseason. I don't know how much he's
gonna get, not more than ten million a year. You know,
he'll probably get something in that Prichard Houser range. But

(33:36):
I don't really feel good about their big man situation
going forward.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
I just don't feel good about the Celtics.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
It's crazy, man, It is crazy how much worse I
feel about them compared to June of last year, Like really, really,
really shockingly big difference. And I do think it's very
possible that we don't see them contend again in the
Tatum era. Like I can't say that they won't. I
think there are a lot to be a good playoff team,

(34:07):
and they do still have a lot of talent if
they have just Tatum, Brown and White at least as
a foundation in Prichard and Howser they key Cornett right, Like,
there's good depth there, there's good talent. There's still a
lot of shooting. But this team's superpower was the collective
strength of all the dudes in the rotation and some
of those guys took a step back this year, and

(34:27):
now some of those guys are in all likelihood going
to be gone. Celtics ruined My life is our only
super chat from Indie Merchant Sam. I'm sorry. Last game
it was Derek White saved my life from Indie Merchant Sam.
And now look how the Mighty have fallen.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
The Christ back down to Earth.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Man. You know who's flying high though, logan is those
New York Knicks. They're going to be playing the Pacers.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
I beid, New York is so rowdy right now, man.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
I mean, those vibes are just going to be special.
That's an awe some throwback rivalry. We will preview it
on Monday, when we also preview the Western Conference Finals
because this series isn't starting until Wednesday, so both teams
have a lot of rest. That's a good thing for
the Knicks just because they only play seven guys. TIBs
kept the starters in this game a little later than

(35:19):
you would expect, certainly from any other coach. But that's
just clad man, that's just TIBs doing his thing. And
then we will see you guys on Sunday for Nuggets thunder.
Lock in for that. That's gonna be a whole lot
of fun. Game seven that I am most excited for
in years. I can't think of the last Game seven
I was this excited for. Obviously the twenty sixteen Finals.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
But I was pretty pumped for Just King's Warriors a
couple of years ago. That one got me a little
fired up.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, bro. It doesn't really compare
to the sixty eight win thunder with the presumed MVP
going up against the best player in the world and
a Nuggets team that won the title. But then we thought, oh,
maybe they can't get better, But now it looks like
maybe they can get back. There's a lot more on
the line in the series. The basketball is of a
much higher caliber. It's been a high quality of back.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Good was Celtics heat. I remember being really jacked for
that was awesome.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Well that was crazy just because of the potential three
to zero comeback. Yeah, yeah, No, there's definitely been some bangers.
I don't know, though, Man, this has been.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Probably the biggest though. I agree.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah, you have one more super chat for Miguel.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Slippers Spurs Clippers.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Okay, well, now, you're going back to twenty Was there
a cutoff date? I said, since the twenty sixteen finals,
twenty fifteen.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
I think I'd agree with it. I think I agree with.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
That, Miguel, Thank you for your generous donation. AG doubtful
for game seven. Saw that with the hamstring strain, you
gotta think he's probably not gonna play.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
It does make a that does make a meaningful difference
to me. I mean, I think that if he's out
here makes it way harder for for OKAYC to win.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
You need, like for Denver to win.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, excuse me. For Denver to win, you need okay See.
You need okay see. Yeah, you need OKC to be off,
You need Russ to hit shots, you need Peyton Watson
to hit shots. It's just like Aaron Gordon does so
much for this team. Yeah, I don't know, man, I
thought I picked Denver to win game seven. I don't
know if I can pick Denver without Aaron Gordon.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
It puts extra pressure on exactly what you said, the
depth pieces, the questionable shooters to step up and make shots.
I already picked Okac. I think that OKAC should now
be a clear favorite. And really if You're looking for
a silver lining for the Nuggets, and maybe this is
a little bit of a reach, but if they can
get it done, it's probably going to require like a

(37:35):
special Yolkic performance and that would be one of the
signature moments of his career. If he could knock out
the sixty eight win Thunder without Aaron Gordon on the floor.
I think it would be really, really hard to do.
But hey, I'm just trying to offer some emotional support here.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Every game though. Man, he's ridiculous glazing.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
I am going to flag you for glazing, but I
understand the sentiment. I see where you're coming from. Nahome
says Pacers are the best team in the playoffs. I
don't agree with that. I do think the Thunder are
the best team in the field, but I think the
Pacers are right after. I do think the Pacers are
clearly better than the Knicks. I'll spoil it. I am
going to pick them to win that series. I won't
say why. We'll talk about that on Monday. But the

(38:17):
Pacers are phenomenal and I'm very, very excited to see
them take on the Knicks in this series. For Celtics fans,
one last I'm sorry. It's got to be the most
bleak offseason plan I could possibly lay out for a
team that won the title a year ago, because it's
not like thinking about how do they improve? You're literally

(38:40):
thinking about, basically, how do they mitigate damage? How do
they not stay attached to these contracts that suck? The
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Speaker 4 (40:48):
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(41:34):
super chat from Energized, who says is a one year
pause for the Celtics that bad? She had some salary
and bring in a young, cost controlled asset through the
draft contend in twenty six to twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Again, I just think that's a lot easier said than done.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
And it's just such a fall from grace. I mean,
this is team has been the they've been the top dog,
and now you're going to like middle of the pack.
It's I can't think of a former like I don't
know Carson, who's the last champion, Like this is even
remotely Oh brother.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Man, well, we've actually seen it from a number of
champs in recent years. The Bucks fell off super fast,
Lakers fell off super fast. This is the era of
champs falling off fast. The reason I thought the Celtics
would be the ones to defy that is because they
had their core nine guys locked up for multiple years
after the title, and a couple of them were old
and obviously had the potential to regress. But I thought

(42:24):
if anybody could sustain it, out of the teams that
we've seen win in recent years, this would be the one.
So to answer your question, energized, I just don't know
if you can view it as a one year pause.
I think it is punting on this window. And I
think recreating the value that Drew Halliday had for you

(42:44):
last year, that Al Horford has had for you, No,
I think Porzinga should have had for you like that
is going to be difficult to do, very difficult.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Yeah, and guys, I think the biggest thing about Boston
is just how old they are, Like That's the important
thing here is Drew Holliday has gotten noticeably worse over
the past few seasons. Horford is not getting any younger,
is on the verge of retirement, like these guys were vital, vital,
important pieces to their championship run. And it's like, I

(43:13):
don't know what any of those guys are gonna look
like into Horford's probably gonna be gone. You can't keep
all these guys under contract. Like it's really.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yes, but it's not the end of the world. They
will be a very good if Tatum is back and
is the player that we've seen. They still have a
good core. So like, I don't want to do a
full sky is Falling thing because I don't think it's
gonna be a comparable fall off to say the Bucks,

(43:42):
where a couple of years out you're like, okay, do
we need to trade Giannis or the Lakers where that
blew up so quickly. For them, it's not at that
level because like, their core guys are still in their
primes and they have some good role players under contract
who I do think that they'll keep. But it's just
where they were at last year and how sustainable it

(44:04):
felt for at least two more years to now be here.
That's just a really big fall and I do think
very discouraging. But the Celtics are a great organization. They
still have some great players, and I do think that
they will be back and they'll be in the upper
echelon of the East, but not in the position that
they've been in recent years where it's like you look

(44:25):
at them, especially these last two years, as the presumptive favorite,
as the top dog. They no longer are going to
have that position unless they nail some of these moves
in a way that I think is going to be
really tricky to pull off. On that bummer of a note,
we will see you guys on Sunday. Yes, one more actually,
thank you Logan, great eyes. This is from Yah Yah.

(44:45):
Do you guys think Cooper will be an offensive number one?

Speaker 1 (44:48):
I don't think that's going to be his responsibility immediately
in Dallas. I think his role is going to be
more of a connective piece on offense and defense. But
if we're looking long term, yes, I do think Cooper
will eventually be the caliber of an offensive number one.
I don't think he's necessarily gonna be a actually do
I I would predict him to be more of a

(45:09):
really great two. But yeah, I could see him being
a number one. My more expectations are is him being
like a twenty three to twenty four point per game score,
giving you, like, I could see him being a good
playmaker like seven plus listed game or something like that,
Like that's a big number. I think that. I think
Cooper could his ceiling definitely is an offensive number one.

(45:32):
I would expect him to be a really great number
two with elite defense, though, I mean you're getting that's
a huge component of Cooper's value as a prospect is
how e lead of a defender he already is.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
I would foresee him as being a really really high
end offensive number two, where he's doing all the complimentary stuff.
He's filling multiple roles. He's thriving on and off ball
as a cutter, he's knocking down his outside shots. He's
bringing connective playmaking. But also he has juice on ball
and can facility for you and get himself good shots
out of pick and roll in attack mismatches. But I

(46:04):
don't see him as being an offensive engine. I think
his handle would have to get a lot better. Like
I don't think there's that sort of super easy offense
for him at a really high volume to say, yeah,
that guy's going to be a really good offensive number one.
But I think he does all of the stuff that
you want from a number two, and then, like you said, Logan,

(46:24):
he'll be so great defensively. I absolutely think it's reasonable
to expect him to be capable of being the best
overall player on a contending team. Will he be the
leading scorer or the offensive number one on that team?
Not necessarily, but I think he's a guy who thrives
when you put good talent around him because he's got
one of those ceiling raising skill sets that amplifies the

(46:47):
team on both sides of the ball. So that would
be my expectation. Appreciate you guys tuning in no basketball
at all tomorrow, which is kind of crazy, So everybody
enjoy your day of no nerds at least on YouTube,
at least in terms of the pod. But you'll still
see us on TikTok. Oh. Sure you'll see us on
TikTok doing some trivia, and you can find all of
our content across social Of course, you can watch all

(47:09):
of our full episodes on YouTube, tune in for our
postgame live streams, catch them after the fact, and you
can listen to the shows across all audio platforms. You
can also join our discord if you want to join
our community there, you can check that out at the
link tree, which is in all of our social media bios.
We will see you guys for game seven. I cannot

(47:30):
wait with that. As always, I've been Carson Braber, I
have been Logan Canden, and this was nerd Sash