January 18, 2025 • 29 mins
Newt talks with Mayor Alex Rounaghi and Fire Chief Niko King from the City of Laguna Beach, California about the devastating fires in Los Angeles County, which have burned over 40,000 acres, resulting in at least 24 deaths and the displacement of more than 100,000 people. The fires have destroyed over 12,000 structures, including homes, businesses, and schools. Mayor Rounaghi and Chief King share their experiences and insights on the fires, their causes, and the challenges faced by firefighters. They discuss the importance of fire safety measures, such as fuel modification and the use of goats for vegetation management, as well as the need for improved infrastructure and local water reliability. Their conversation also touches on the complexities of insurance in high-risk areas and the necessity of regulatory reforms to expedite rebuilding efforts.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
On this episode of This World. The fires sweeping across
Los Angeles County, California for the past week have burned
more than forty thousand acres, or an area slightly larger
than Washington, d C. At least twenty four people have
died and more than one hundred thousand people have been
forced to leave their homes. More than twelve thousand homes, businesses, schools, churches,
(00:28):
and other structures have been destroyed by the fires, and
the fires are still raging. I wanted to understand more
about how the fires initially began and how they will
finally be contained, so I'm really pleased to welcome my
two guests, who are both from the city of Laguna
Beach in Orange County, California, Mayor Alice Vernagi and fire
(00:48):
Chief Nicocaine. Alex and Nico, welcome and thank you for
joining the Beach World.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thanks so much for having us.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Thank you it's an honor.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
As I understand that you both were in Pacific Palisades
on Monday surveying the damage and checking in on your
Laguna Beach firefighters who were their assisting Los Angeles County firefighters.
Tell us for a couple of minutes about that experience.
Why don't we start with you, mister Mayor.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, yes, speaker Gingridge.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
You really cannot overstate the devastation that we saw.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
The amount of homes that were burned.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
There were so many of them, and what was remarkable
was it wasn't like all the new homes that were
recently built were able to stay. Some of the homes
that were remaining were old homes somewhere new.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
It was totally inconsistent.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
It just speaks to the power of this fire with
these winds. The other remarkable takeaway was how people had
to evacuate so quickly. At least twenty four people have died,
but it was remarkable that in some ways that so
few people have died given how much station there has been.
The other takeaway was how precarious our fire safety is.
(02:06):
For Laguna Beach, for example, we have small roads, we
have above ground utility lines, we have many of the
things that happen in Pacific Palisades. Chief King and our
city manager, and we used it sort of as an
opportunity to learn how we can improve our fire preparedness.
But again, our hearts go out to those who have
lost their lives. Those who've lost their homes. And I
(02:26):
think it's also just a reminder of how lucky we
are to have our first responders and firefighters who are
literally willing to put their lives on the line to
protect all of us. So, Chief King can tell us more.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Chief can you provide insight both into how the fires
in Los Angeles begin but also you have folks up
there right now helping. How are they doing and what's
the impact on them.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
Yeah, we were able to send an engine crew initially,
which we staff with three persons and it's part of
the master mutual a process. And as the Mayor eluded,
and we know this fire it started, but when it's
fanned by up to ninety mile an hour winds heading
towards residential areas, you just can't move people fast enough
(03:10):
sending our crews there. Even as close as we are
to Los Angeles County and to the Palisades, they're.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Just screaming for resources.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
Our initial engine that went there, they immediately went into
a neighborhood and they're assigned to protect some of the
homes and they made statements like an unstoppable force with
the ember showers and a flame front that's coming through
the area, and truly their distractions are life safety, which
is always our number one priority, and they're just trying
(03:40):
to get the folks out and there's so many people
that they said that they had to stop a firefight,
put the hose down, and help somebody finish loading their car,
or give them some sort of direction on how to
get out.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Of the neighborhood.
Speaker 6 (03:51):
But you're exactly right with the question of the toll.
It's the adrenaline that the firefighters go through for the
initial attack of a fire, and they're operational and active,
and you're running on it that adrenaline in their case
up to thirty six hours, and then it's the days
following that you're looking at the impact of the disaster,
(04:12):
the impact of the several people's lives, and then you
start coming into contact with those individuals, those homeowners, and
you start to listen to the stories and you're trying
to help people get back into their homes and look
at the damage which is being controlled, and it's happening
slowly because there's still a lot of hazards that exist.
But you start to process, you start to process all
(04:33):
of the disaster and what you just experienced and it
absolutely takes a toll almost firefighters. It does emotionally. You're
physically exhausted, and you're experiencing and witnessing a lot of
the emotion of someone that just lost everything that they
have and they're trying to figure out what the first
next step is.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Should we be bringing in more people from around the country.
Speaker 6 (04:57):
I would say they have the resources that they need.
I'll stop there and say that when you have a
flame front like they witnessed with a ninety mile an
hour wind, I don't know that there is enough fire
engines with just hose and water that are gonna make
a big impact. You can't just stand in front of
(05:19):
that force of nature and stop it. It's just much
too powerful. Our firefighters, as brave as they are, is
getting in there can't eventually find a house at the
edge of the fire that maybe they can start putting
out small flyers and stop the progress. But really they're
number one priorities to be in there and to get
the people out.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I get the sense of the fire still substantial way
from being under control, and that if the winds come
back up again with the kind of force they've had,
it's a real problem.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
It is a problem, and we try to frontload all
of our.
Speaker 6 (05:55):
Responses in southern California with the state of our vegetation
and the drought and just the low humidity. We tried
to have an initial response of several engines and even
launching helicopters at the first call to nine to one
one that there's a report of a fire in the wildland.
That's been our best tactic, that's what's worked historically.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
But it's when those small.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Fires quickly outrun the resources that are arriving. Where you
have these major conflagrations. You know, we're seeing it more
and more over time. It seems like we're seeing about
one a year, and I think it's time. The fire
surface is going to dig in and we're going to
probably look towards different technology and new ways, new approaches
(06:37):
to combat these major conflagrations.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
For those of us outside of California, what are the
shanta Ana winds and how do they get to be
so strong.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
It's a weather phenomena that does occur, and if you
live in southern California you've become quite familiar with it.
But it has to do with high pressures and low
pressures in the Western United States, and it's a warmer,
dry air that's over Nevada, and as it begins to
transfer to a lower pressure, it squeezes through the mountains,
(07:08):
it loses all of its humidity and becomes a very
dry air. And then as it continues to compress, it
goes through canyons and valleys as it goes through the mountains,
and then by the time it gets to us here
on the coast, it's incredibly concentrated because it's been traveling
faster and faster with more pressure behind it. It's extremely dry,
(07:29):
and it comes straight through our canyons out into the ocean.
So it's expected seasonally and we're always waiting for it.
And that's when we declare our red flag days and
we're in a state of readiness.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Should we have a lot more airplanes that are equipped
to deliver fire retardant.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
The state of California is very well resourced. Not only
are we well resourced, but they are on the ready.
CalFire has a large fleet and then they have contract
services or other firefighting fixed wing and the helicopters. They're
some of the best and the pilots do some amazing things.
As I was looking at a live map that showed
(08:10):
all the air resources. It definitely was not a shortage
of air resources.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
As a matter of fact, that airspace is quite crowded.
Speaker 6 (08:17):
You have to have dozens or so of helicopters and
the fixed wings with flight patterns and making sure that
they're all coordinated and can get to the fire and
make their drops and stay at different elevations and move
in a certain pattern so they're not creating hazards for themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
And the State of.
Speaker 6 (08:33):
California does an incredible job at controlling those aircraft.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Mister Maryor You've been very innovative in fire prevention and
lagoon the beach. Did you pick up anything when you've
been up looked and what's been going on that might
lead you to in some way change what you're already
doing in your community.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Well, I think the good thing, if there is a
good thing about our visit to see the devastation, was
that it really reaffirmed a lot of the strategies that
we're already employing. So, for example, our firefighters showed us
a video when they were fighting a fire to prevent
it from going into a neighborhood, and there was a
three hundred foot break that was there because of fuel modification,
and you could literally see how physically that was able
(09:16):
to stop the fire from advancing.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
At the quick pace that it previously was. So fuel
modification is.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Something that we're going to be doubling down on and
continue expanding. We could talk more about our GOAT program later.
The other takeaway was the need to underground above ground
utility lines. We often think as above ground utility lines
as getting a cause afire, and they absolutely are a
cause of fire. But when the firefighters are fighting a fire,
they were telling us how they have no idea whether
(09:44):
or not the above ground utility lines are energized or not,
and so that leads them to have to basically be
defending themselves against the fire while also making sure that
the above ground utility line doesn't explode. They described having
wires hanging down and this also it's in the way
of evacuation. And then finally, water is something that we
are laser focused on in Laguna Beach number one, because
(10:07):
we want local water reliability as we deal with future
issues from Colorado and from our state water project.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
We don't want to be dependent on any of them.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
So we're focused on a plan to get us to
one hundred percent local water reliability through desalination to the
south and then through a groundwater weld with our friends
in Newport Beach to the north. So when you have
so much demand on the water system, it becomes almost
impossible to not run.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Out of water.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
In nineteen ninety three, we had one of the most
devastating fires in the state of California at the time,
and we ran out of water. Since then, we've added
two reservoirs. We've gone all in on increasing our water supply,
but I think we probably need to do even more
because these types of fires are the new normal, and
so we need to ensure that we have the water
resources necessary to never have a situation where our firefighters
are fighting a fire and they don't have water.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
What percent of your water can you get from desalinization?
Speaker 4 (11:12):
We can get up to one hundred percent, So we're
working with South Coast Water District on the Dohini Desalination project,
but it'll ultimately probably be about a third of our
water supply, and then with the other two thirds coming
from groundwater, which we're partnering with Newport Beach on building
a new well. So right now we're on one hundred
percent imported water. But our goal in next two years
is to go from one hundred percent imported to one
(11:33):
hundred percent local.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That's amazing. Is that mostly through wells?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yeah, through wells because we don't have groundwater under us.
But we're working on a deal with Fountain Valley in
Newport to build the well there and that'll get us
to two thirds, and then the remaining one third will
be de se because really Speaker Gingridge, what we're dealing
with in California in the future will be earthquakes. We're
going to have significant earthquakes that could undermine our reliability.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
So we want to have a system where we're getting.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Water from multiple sources so that we're not relying on
just one source. So we can add that to the
list of things to worry about as earthquakes, in addition
to fires and all the rest.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
The north Ridge earthquake was a good example of something
which just was tremendously disruptive to traffic in the whole region.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
They can't help but ask you describe in terms of
vegetation monitoring, how you got to the use of goats
and to what degree that works.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Chief King, do you want to step in here.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
It was quite ingenious for a fire chief to take
a look at this program back in nineteen ninety one,
and they are used for grazing and clearing some open space,
but as a fire prevention tool, they thought they'd give
it a shot back in the Kuna Beach. So if
people are familiar with goats and what they'll eat, it's
(12:51):
just about everything. So the fire chief was able to
dedicate some of the parts adjacent open space next to
parcels and.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Is able to utilize these goats. So some of.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
The things that we have to put in places to
make sure that they're corralled and that they're monitored. So
we want to keep them where we want them. So
there are specific zones that we have that is adjacent
to the open space and we'll put the goats and
pins and let them eat up one hundred percent of
that vegetation. They'll do an incredible job at clearing it out.
(13:23):
Then we have to monitor that so that when they
get to a certain point in time and they're eating that,
we can move them and rotate them to the next space.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's been an incredible program for us.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I mean, how many goats do you.
Speaker 6 (13:38):
Have, there are several hundred. This last summer, we brought
in three herds at a time, and I understand there's
about one hundred and fifty two hundred goats per herd well.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I mean I got fascinated because the Smithsonian magazine had
run a story that the Reagan Library and simu Ally
they had used land clearing goats to eat the flammable
brush and it was a big fire there. The goats
had in fact created a firebreak and the library was safe.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
And what's interesting about the goats is that we're actually
only able to do them because they were grandfathered in.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
But the permits now and I think this is under the.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
California Environmental Quality Act, prevent us from using goats because
they eat what the state describes as the high resource
habitats or something along those lines. So that's something that
I will be working on, is figuring out how we
can make it so that we can actually add more goats,
because goats are the most cost effective way to do
fuel modification.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I don't get part of this because Sony was doing
some calculations this morning the amount of carbon we're putting
in the air with the Los Angeles fire off size
virtually everything California has done to produce carbon pollution, and
in a sense, if goats would have stopped the fire,
(14:51):
I'm for the goats. Maybe that's because I don't quite
get the way on which Sacramento thinks, but as it
seems to me that it'll be pro go rather than
anti got.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
The environment is what makes Laguna Beach special. We don't
want to do anything that will undermine the environment, but
I think goats are a way that we can protect
our environment and protect public safety because we know, as
you said, when you have a fire that does not
help the environment in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
What other fire prevention tools do you use in Laguna Beach,
in an Orange County.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
Right here in Laguna Beach, it's unique because we're surrounded
by several one hundred acres of open space, and so
we look at the edges of our community and where
wild land fire is going to be encroaching, and so
we try to create that defensible space behind our homes,
our residents' homes about against the open space. And then
(15:45):
we have created, through permitting processes, the fuel modification zones,
and that's where we can go in and remove the vegetation,
not like the goats do where they will remove one
hundred percent of the vegetation, but through a permitting process
that we can thin the vegetation, and we're trying to protect.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The native species to California.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Where we could only reduce that vegetation to fifty percent,
but we're clearing all of the underbrush and the dead vegetation,
the annual grasses, and so really what that does is
an approaching fire. It's going to hit that gap where
the vegetation has been removed, and it's going to take
a lot of the energy out of the fire. And
(16:25):
that's where we like to hopefully hit that fire with
the overhead resources, the helicopters and.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
The air drops and prevent it from encroaching. Upon the helmes.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
We want to help people get back into their homes
as quickly as possible and as inexpensively as possible. And
it seems that means that their whole range of regulations
and rules and organizations, all of them basically slowing down
and making more difficult the rebuilding process, and that somehow
(16:59):
that has to be significant part of what we look
at and trying to maximize the speed with which we
can get people back into their homes. I mean, am
I missing something since I'm not a California.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Well absolutely, and so my being on the city council
now this year as marriage is a part time job.
My full time day job is in real estate development,
and I've had projects in the city of LA and
the amount of time that it takes to get just
like a town home project to prove is ridiculous where
you're moving between so many different departments.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
So you know, the.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Residents who lost their homes cannot afford to wait through
a one or two year process. They need, you know,
a mediate approval where everyone needs to get in the
room and get.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
These approvals quicker.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
It's also how we're going to ultimately solve the housing
supply crisis that we have in California. But I totally
agree there's a lot of regulations that are very important,
but we need to be as we look at how
we can rebuild Los Angeles. It's critical that we don't
let bureaucracy and regulations get in the way of people
rebuilding their homes because that'll add gas to the fire
(18:00):
in many respects.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The other thing was the top of I don't frankly
understand very well, but that apparently the homeowner's insurance has
become a major challenge for those living in high risk areas.
Do you see this kind of an issue in Laguna Beach.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Oh, absolutely, We're having homeowners who are dealing with significant
increases in their rates, and some people are not able
to get insurance, so they have to go onto the
Fair Plan. Really, the root of that issue goes back
to a proposition that the voters of California passed that
basically requires that any increase in rates has to be
approved somewhere in Sacramento. And so what that's led to
(18:38):
is a situation where a lot of insurers are just
simply getting out of the state of California. And part
of the reason why we have an insurance crisis because
the risk is so high. I mean, I saw number
fifty six billion dollars plus for the damages here. So
in many respects, the amount of risk that people are
dealing with by living in California, especially in these high
(18:58):
risk areas, has made it so that premiums have to
either increase or if they're not able to increase because
of the state, then the insurers are going to go
out of the state.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
So I don't have the.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Answer, mister speaker, but it's going to be a problem
that we're going to continue dealing with because, as you know,
you can't get a mortgage without.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Insurance, so this really needs to be addressed.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Let me ask you, as you look forward, do you
feel that the innovative things you've done in Laguna Beach
are sort of validated by what you've seen up in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
I think they are validated, but there's really so much
more for us to do because when you look at
as Chief King was describing earlier, when you have a
fire with the winds that we saw in Los Angeles,
there's very little.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
That can be done to mitigate it.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
So the question is how do we kind of change
our playbook and reject the assumptions of what we've been
able to do in the past and what fires have
been like in the past, and really prepare for a
new normal. So even though I think we've been heading
in the right direction, there's so much more for us
to do, and we're not going to take our foot
off again pedal, because as you know, public safety is
the most important role of local government.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
You've also made a point I hadn't really thought about,
which is you have to be planning simultaneously for the
potential for an earthquake as well as the potential for mudslides,
as well as the potential for really big fire. I mean,
all three of those have to somehow be in your
city plan. Absolutely, isn't that pretty complicated.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
It's very complicated, and it requires one step at a time.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Right now, we have our fire stations, all four of them.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
We haven't built a new fire station in fifty years,
and all four of ours fire stations, if an earthquake
happens could come down where finally we're building one, we're
about to start building.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
And so there's so much work to do. And I
think a lot of cities.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
In like we're about to approach our one hundred year
anniversary in twenty twenty seven, and a lot of cities
like us that are older have not made the proper
investments in infrastructure. I think it's going to be a
theme that we're seeing across the state of California. So
it's easy to not make those investments in infrastructure. No
one's going to get mad at you at the time,
but it's important that as leaders we make those necessary
(21:05):
investments because at the end of the day, they're going
to be critical for the public safety threats that we
face in the future and the present.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
So I'm really curious when you think about trying to
prevent the huge fires though, such as the one we're
living through now. The goat program may really be a
major contributor. But what's the relative cost of using goats
versus other messas of clearing this underbrush.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Well, goats are absolutely a very cost effective program. Our
estimate is that per acre, goats cost eight hundred and
sixty dollars, whereas hand crews cost four thousand dollars an acre,
So it's around twenty percent of the cost of hand crews.
It's the most cost effective form of fuel modification that
we have at our disposal.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Prior to these fires, has the state been increasingly opposed
to any kind of clearing of the underbrush?
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Well, the state has a lot of permits that are
required for fuel modification, but going forward, we cannot get
new permits for goats. We can only do them for
hand crews. The Chief can correct me if I'm wrong,
that's correct.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So the state basically is creating a fivefold increase in
cost to have people rather than goats. As an outsider,
I'm not shocked, but it strikes me as not very clever.
Mister Mary, I know you've got to run, and I
want to thank you given everything you're doing. I really
appreciate your taking the time to talk with us.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Thank you, mister speaker.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
It's an honor to be a part of this, So
thank you for including us.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
We've heard a lot, and there's been a lot on
TV at least about the whole process of whether or
not Lost Angelus itself was getting the resources that needed
and to my surprise, I mean, the police chief's been
pretty blunt about this. Do you have any sense of
how much underfunded they were and to what degree that
weaken their ability to stop the fire?
Speaker 6 (23:14):
I've heard what everyone else has heard on the news,
and those impacts truly unknown. I know the fire chief
made some pretty strong statements, and it looked like there
was a memo that she had drafted prior to the
onset of these firestorms, and it was addressing the readiness
of some of their aerial fleet, and those are obviously
very very expensive resources and you have to have a
(23:36):
lot of the maintenance and the training hours that go
along with it. She seemed to be addressing that, but
as far as any kind of slowing of the responsiveness
of those resources, that's all yet to be determined.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I appreciate and again that you've been fortunate in that
Laguna Beach actually has been seriously concerned and has done
a lot of the right things, both about fire safety
but also trying to maintain a really good city.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
One of the best benefits is we have a very
very engaged community here. They know that they all live
in a state designated very high fire hazard severity zone.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Which means that we have the weather.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
You know, the climate is such that it's conducive to fires.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
There's a lot of vegetation.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
Here, and then we have those Santa Ana win events
that come seasonally, and you look throughout our community that
people are living in some older wood framed homes. Laguna
Beach is on a hillside. Most of our community has
a great beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean and they
love the vegetation that is around their houses in the hillside.
(24:43):
So it's all very very nice to live here, and
it's an incredible climate, but it's these times of years
where you're reminded of the risk that comes along with it.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
A Los Angeles Times reported today that fire officials are
now being to look for the source of the fars.
Do you have something like this, How do you go
back and look for the source of a fire on
this scale?
Speaker 6 (25:05):
The investigative process is a whole different science than fire suppression,
and we have especially trained investigators in our profession. It's
hard to imagine, but the size and the scope of
the devastation that has occurred, you can take it back
to what is a logical point of origin, and that's
with the given weather conditions and the slope the topography,
(25:28):
you can trace this fireback to a corner where it
is probably likely the.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Point of origin.
Speaker 6 (25:34):
These investigators go in and they are looking for any
types of devices, anything that's left behind that might have
indicated that there was an accident there, that there's a
small campfire. Whatever they're looking for is going to be
in a logical place near the point of origin, and
so they mark it off and they treat it as
(25:55):
almost as a crime scene, and until they can prove
that it's not and they secure all the evidence, they
send it to labs to get tested if there is
any evidence, more often than not, they'll be able to
come up with a cause. The most important is doing
those interviews for people that saw the initial line of
smoke that was coming from an area, that reported the
(26:15):
fire and where was that And I heard indications that
they were looking into a fire that had happened previously
from New Year's Eve and that might have been the area.
So they just take those leads in those reports and
they continue to follow up on them until they can
find that cause.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
If you don't mind my asking the chief, how long
have you been involved in firefighting?
Speaker 6 (26:36):
This is my thirty fourth year in the fire service.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Well, so, if a young person happens to be listening
to this podcast, would you encourage them to consider being
a firefighter?
Speaker 6 (26:48):
Oh, it's the best profession in the world.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Why is that?
Speaker 6 (26:51):
When I was younger, it was about the physical challenges
that were there and you get to be outdoors and
it's not going to be confined in an office. That
was first active to me. But as I jumped into
the career, you start realizing that the cliche of I
like to help people, well that's real.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
It's real.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
You get to on a daily basis respond out of
a fire station and you make those human connections, and
you really do get to see the difference that you
make in people's lives, There's no question about it. And
as trained EMTs and paramedics, especially along the lines of
just having the experience and seeing more and more, you
realize the value and.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
The difference that you can make in this profession. To
that end, people.
Speaker 6 (27:35):
Really do appreciate the firefighters, So you couldn't think of
a better profession where people are incredibly grateful to have
the fire service and the profession around.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
You know, I want to thank you for joining me.
I realize how really busy all of you are right now,
but you're helping us better understand the challenges of Los
Angeles and the firefighters who are facing to really try
to bring these wildfares under control. Our thoughts and prayers
are with those firefighters, with the first responders, and with
all the people who are really in danger of losing
(28:08):
their homes and losing everything they've collected their whole life.
So around the country, I think we're all thinking about
and praying for the Angelino's been through such a terrible
and traumatic thing, and you really were a help coming
on and talking to us.
Speaker 6 (28:21):
Well, it's been an absolute automous or speaker to not
only meet you, but to share some of the great
stories of what the firefighters in the state of California
and across the country are going through right now in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So thank you for this opportunity.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Thank you to my guests, Mayor Alex Renaggi and Fire
Chief Nico King from the city of Laguna Beach, California.
You can learn more about the California wildfires on our
show page at newtsworld dot com. New World is produced
by Gager three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is
Guernsey Slow. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for
(29:01):
the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to
the team at Gingrish three sixty. If you've been enjoying
New World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and
both rate us with five stars and give us a
review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now,
listeners of newt World consign up for my three freeweekly
columns at gingrichsthree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm new Gingrich.
(29:25):
This is neutral,
On this episode of This World. The fires sweeping across
Los Angeles County, California for the past week have burned
more than forty thousand acres, or an area slightly larger
than Washington, d C. At least twenty four people have
died and more than one hundred thousand people have been
forced to leave their homes. More than twelve thousand homes, businesses, schools, churches,
(00:28):
and other structures have been destroyed by the fires, and
the fires are still raging. I wanted to understand more
about how the fires initially began and how they will
finally be contained, so I'm really pleased to welcome my
two guests, who are both from the city of Laguna
Beach in Orange County, California, Mayor Alice Vernagi and fire
(00:48):
Chief Nicocaine. Alex and Nico, welcome and thank you for
joining the Beach World.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thanks so much for having us.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Thank you it's an honor.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
As I understand that you both were in Pacific Palisades
on Monday surveying the damage and checking in on your
Laguna Beach firefighters who were their assisting Los Angeles County firefighters.
Tell us for a couple of minutes about that experience.
Why don't we start with you, mister Mayor.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, yes, speaker Gingridge.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
You really cannot overstate the devastation that we saw.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
The amount of homes that were burned.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
There were so many of them, and what was remarkable
was it wasn't like all the new homes that were
recently built were able to stay. Some of the homes
that were remaining were old homes somewhere new.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
It was totally inconsistent.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
It just speaks to the power of this fire with
these winds. The other remarkable takeaway was how people had
to evacuate so quickly. At least twenty four people have died,
but it was remarkable that in some ways that so
few people have died given how much station there has been.
The other takeaway was how precarious our fire safety is.
(02:06):
For Laguna Beach, for example, we have small roads, we
have above ground utility lines, we have many of the
things that happen in Pacific Palisades. Chief King and our
city manager, and we used it sort of as an
opportunity to learn how we can improve our fire preparedness.
But again, our hearts go out to those who have
lost their lives. Those who've lost their homes. And I
(02:26):
think it's also just a reminder of how lucky we
are to have our first responders and firefighters who are
literally willing to put their lives on the line to
protect all of us. So, Chief King can tell us more.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Chief can you provide insight both into how the fires
in Los Angeles begin but also you have folks up
there right now helping. How are they doing and what's
the impact on them.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
Yeah, we were able to send an engine crew initially,
which we staff with three persons and it's part of
the master mutual a process. And as the Mayor eluded,
and we know this fire it started, but when it's
fanned by up to ninety mile an hour winds heading
towards residential areas, you just can't move people fast enough
(03:10):
sending our crews there. Even as close as we are
to Los Angeles County and to the Palisades, they're.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Just screaming for resources.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
Our initial engine that went there, they immediately went into
a neighborhood and they're assigned to protect some of the
homes and they made statements like an unstoppable force with
the ember showers and a flame front that's coming through
the area, and truly their distractions are life safety, which
is always our number one priority, and they're just trying
(03:40):
to get the folks out and there's so many people
that they said that they had to stop a firefight,
put the hose down, and help somebody finish loading their car,
or give them some sort of direction on how to
get out.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Of the neighborhood.
Speaker 6 (03:51):
But you're exactly right with the question of the toll.
It's the adrenaline that the firefighters go through for the
initial attack of a fire, and they're operational and active,
and you're running on it that adrenaline in their case
up to thirty six hours, and then it's the days
following that you're looking at the impact of the disaster,
(04:12):
the impact of the several people's lives, and then you
start coming into contact with those individuals, those homeowners, and
you start to listen to the stories and you're trying
to help people get back into their homes and look
at the damage which is being controlled, and it's happening
slowly because there's still a lot of hazards that exist.
But you start to process, you start to process all
(04:33):
of the disaster and what you just experienced and it
absolutely takes a toll almost firefighters. It does emotionally. You're
physically exhausted, and you're experiencing and witnessing a lot of
the emotion of someone that just lost everything that they
have and they're trying to figure out what the first
next step is.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Should we be bringing in more people from around the country.
Speaker 6 (04:57):
I would say they have the resources that they need.
I'll stop there and say that when you have a
flame front like they witnessed with a ninety mile an
hour wind, I don't know that there is enough fire
engines with just hose and water that are gonna make
a big impact. You can't just stand in front of
(05:19):
that force of nature and stop it. It's just much
too powerful. Our firefighters, as brave as they are, is
getting in there can't eventually find a house at the
edge of the fire that maybe they can start putting
out small flyers and stop the progress. But really they're
number one priorities to be in there and to get
the people out.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I get the sense of the fire still substantial way
from being under control, and that if the winds come
back up again with the kind of force they've had,
it's a real problem.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
It is a problem, and we try to frontload all
of our.
Speaker 6 (05:55):
Responses in southern California with the state of our vegetation
and the drought and just the low humidity. We tried
to have an initial response of several engines and even
launching helicopters at the first call to nine to one
one that there's a report of a fire in the wildland.
That's been our best tactic, that's what's worked historically.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
But it's when those small.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Fires quickly outrun the resources that are arriving. Where you
have these major conflagrations. You know, we're seeing it more
and more over time. It seems like we're seeing about
one a year, and I think it's time. The fire
surface is going to dig in and we're going to
probably look towards different technology and new ways, new approaches
(06:37):
to combat these major conflagrations.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
For those of us outside of California, what are the
shanta Ana winds and how do they get to be
so strong.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
It's a weather phenomena that does occur, and if you
live in southern California you've become quite familiar with it.
But it has to do with high pressures and low
pressures in the Western United States, and it's a warmer,
dry air that's over Nevada, and as it begins to
transfer to a lower pressure, it squeezes through the mountains,
(07:08):
it loses all of its humidity and becomes a very
dry air. And then as it continues to compress, it
goes through canyons and valleys as it goes through the mountains,
and then by the time it gets to us here
on the coast, it's incredibly concentrated because it's been traveling
faster and faster with more pressure behind it. It's extremely dry,
(07:29):
and it comes straight through our canyons out into the ocean.
So it's expected seasonally and we're always waiting for it.
And that's when we declare our red flag days and
we're in a state of readiness.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Should we have a lot more airplanes that are equipped
to deliver fire retardant.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
The state of California is very well resourced. Not only
are we well resourced, but they are on the ready.
CalFire has a large fleet and then they have contract
services or other firefighting fixed wing and the helicopters. They're
some of the best and the pilots do some amazing things.
As I was looking at a live map that showed
(08:10):
all the air resources. It definitely was not a shortage
of air resources.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
As a matter of fact, that airspace is quite crowded.
Speaker 6 (08:17):
You have to have dozens or so of helicopters and
the fixed wings with flight patterns and making sure that
they're all coordinated and can get to the fire and
make their drops and stay at different elevations and move
in a certain pattern so they're not creating hazards for themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
And the State of.
Speaker 6 (08:33):
California does an incredible job at controlling those aircraft.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Mister Maryor You've been very innovative in fire prevention and
lagoon the beach. Did you pick up anything when you've
been up looked and what's been going on that might
lead you to in some way change what you're already
doing in your community.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Well, I think the good thing, if there is a
good thing about our visit to see the devastation, was
that it really reaffirmed a lot of the strategies that
we're already employing. So, for example, our firefighters showed us
a video when they were fighting a fire to prevent
it from going into a neighborhood, and there was a
three hundred foot break that was there because of fuel modification,
and you could literally see how physically that was able
(09:16):
to stop the fire from advancing.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
At the quick pace that it previously was. So fuel
modification is.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Something that we're going to be doubling down on and
continue expanding. We could talk more about our GOAT program later.
The other takeaway was the need to underground above ground
utility lines. We often think as above ground utility lines
as getting a cause afire, and they absolutely are a
cause of fire. But when the firefighters are fighting a fire,
they were telling us how they have no idea whether
(09:44):
or not the above ground utility lines are energized or not,
and so that leads them to have to basically be
defending themselves against the fire while also making sure that
the above ground utility line doesn't explode. They described having
wires hanging down and this also it's in the way
of evacuation. And then finally, water is something that we
are laser focused on in Laguna Beach number one, because
(10:07):
we want local water reliability as we deal with future
issues from Colorado and from our state water project.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
We don't want to be dependent on any of them.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
So we're focused on a plan to get us to
one hundred percent local water reliability through desalination to the
south and then through a groundwater weld with our friends
in Newport Beach to the north. So when you have
so much demand on the water system, it becomes almost
impossible to not run.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Out of water.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
In nineteen ninety three, we had one of the most
devastating fires in the state of California at the time,
and we ran out of water. Since then, we've added
two reservoirs. We've gone all in on increasing our water supply,
but I think we probably need to do even more
because these types of fires are the new normal, and
so we need to ensure that we have the water
resources necessary to never have a situation where our firefighters
are fighting a fire and they don't have water.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
What percent of your water can you get from desalinization?
Speaker 4 (11:12):
We can get up to one hundred percent, So we're
working with South Coast Water District on the Dohini Desalination project,
but it'll ultimately probably be about a third of our
water supply, and then with the other two thirds coming
from groundwater, which we're partnering with Newport Beach on building
a new well. So right now we're on one hundred
percent imported water. But our goal in next two years
is to go from one hundred percent imported to one
(11:33):
hundred percent local.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That's amazing. Is that mostly through wells?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yeah, through wells because we don't have groundwater under us.
But we're working on a deal with Fountain Valley in
Newport to build the well there and that'll get us
to two thirds, and then the remaining one third will
be de se because really Speaker Gingridge, what we're dealing
with in California in the future will be earthquakes. We're
going to have significant earthquakes that could undermine our reliability.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
So we want to have a system where we're getting.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Water from multiple sources so that we're not relying on
just one source. So we can add that to the
list of things to worry about as earthquakes, in addition
to fires and all the rest.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
The north Ridge earthquake was a good example of something
which just was tremendously disruptive to traffic in the whole region.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
They can't help but ask you describe in terms of
vegetation monitoring, how you got to the use of goats
and to what degree that works.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Chief King, do you want to step in here.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
It was quite ingenious for a fire chief to take
a look at this program back in nineteen ninety one,
and they are used for grazing and clearing some open space,
but as a fire prevention tool, they thought they'd give
it a shot back in the Kuna Beach. So if
people are familiar with goats and what they'll eat, it's
(12:51):
just about everything. So the fire chief was able to
dedicate some of the parts adjacent open space next to
parcels and.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Is able to utilize these goats. So some of.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
The things that we have to put in places to
make sure that they're corralled and that they're monitored. So
we want to keep them where we want them. So
there are specific zones that we have that is adjacent
to the open space and we'll put the goats and
pins and let them eat up one hundred percent of
that vegetation. They'll do an incredible job at clearing it out.
(13:23):
Then we have to monitor that so that when they
get to a certain point in time and they're eating that,
we can move them and rotate them to the next space.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's been an incredible program for us.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I mean, how many goats do you.
Speaker 6 (13:38):
Have, there are several hundred. This last summer, we brought
in three herds at a time, and I understand there's
about one hundred and fifty two hundred goats per herd well.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I mean I got fascinated because the Smithsonian magazine had
run a story that the Reagan Library and simu Ally
they had used land clearing goats to eat the flammable
brush and it was a big fire there. The goats
had in fact created a firebreak and the library was safe.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
And what's interesting about the goats is that we're actually
only able to do them because they were grandfathered in.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
But the permits now and I think this is under the.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
California Environmental Quality Act, prevent us from using goats because
they eat what the state describes as the high resource
habitats or something along those lines. So that's something that
I will be working on, is figuring out how we
can make it so that we can actually add more goats,
because goats are the most cost effective way to do
fuel modification.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I don't get part of this because Sony was doing
some calculations this morning the amount of carbon we're putting
in the air with the Los Angeles fire off size
virtually everything California has done to produce carbon pollution, and
in a sense, if goats would have stopped the fire,
(14:51):
I'm for the goats. Maybe that's because I don't quite
get the way on which Sacramento thinks, but as it
seems to me that it'll be pro go rather than
anti got.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
The environment is what makes Laguna Beach special. We don't
want to do anything that will undermine the environment, but
I think goats are a way that we can protect
our environment and protect public safety because we know, as
you said, when you have a fire that does not
help the environment in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
What other fire prevention tools do you use in Laguna Beach,
in an Orange County.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
Right here in Laguna Beach, it's unique because we're surrounded
by several one hundred acres of open space, and so
we look at the edges of our community and where
wild land fire is going to be encroaching, and so
we try to create that defensible space behind our homes,
our residents' homes about against the open space. And then
(15:45):
we have created, through permitting processes, the fuel modification zones,
and that's where we can go in and remove the vegetation,
not like the goats do where they will remove one
hundred percent of the vegetation, but through a permitting process
that we can thin the vegetation, and we're trying to protect.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The native species to California.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Where we could only reduce that vegetation to fifty percent,
but we're clearing all of the underbrush and the dead vegetation,
the annual grasses, and so really what that does is
an approaching fire. It's going to hit that gap where
the vegetation has been removed, and it's going to take
a lot of the energy out of the fire. And
(16:25):
that's where we like to hopefully hit that fire with
the overhead resources, the helicopters and.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
The air drops and prevent it from encroaching. Upon the helmes.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
We want to help people get back into their homes
as quickly as possible and as inexpensively as possible. And
it seems that means that their whole range of regulations
and rules and organizations, all of them basically slowing down
and making more difficult the rebuilding process, and that somehow
(16:59):
that has to be significant part of what we look
at and trying to maximize the speed with which we
can get people back into their homes. I mean, am
I missing something since I'm not a California.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Well absolutely, and so my being on the city council
now this year as marriage is a part time job.
My full time day job is in real estate development,
and I've had projects in the city of LA and
the amount of time that it takes to get just
like a town home project to prove is ridiculous where
you're moving between so many different departments.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
So you know, the.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Residents who lost their homes cannot afford to wait through
a one or two year process. They need, you know,
a mediate approval where everyone needs to get in the
room and get.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
These approvals quicker.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
It's also how we're going to ultimately solve the housing
supply crisis that we have in California. But I totally
agree there's a lot of regulations that are very important,
but we need to be as we look at how
we can rebuild Los Angeles. It's critical that we don't
let bureaucracy and regulations get in the way of people
rebuilding their homes because that'll add gas to the fire
(18:00):
in many respects.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The other thing was the top of I don't frankly
understand very well, but that apparently the homeowner's insurance has
become a major challenge for those living in high risk areas.
Do you see this kind of an issue in Laguna Beach.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Oh, absolutely, We're having homeowners who are dealing with significant
increases in their rates, and some people are not able
to get insurance, so they have to go onto the
Fair Plan. Really, the root of that issue goes back
to a proposition that the voters of California passed that
basically requires that any increase in rates has to be
approved somewhere in Sacramento. And so what that's led to
(18:38):
is a situation where a lot of insurers are just
simply getting out of the state of California. And part
of the reason why we have an insurance crisis because
the risk is so high. I mean, I saw number
fifty six billion dollars plus for the damages here. So
in many respects, the amount of risk that people are
dealing with by living in California, especially in these high
(18:58):
risk areas, has made it so that premiums have to
either increase or if they're not able to increase because
of the state, then the insurers are going to go
out of the state.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
So I don't have the.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Answer, mister speaker, but it's going to be a problem
that we're going to continue dealing with because, as you know,
you can't get a mortgage without.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Insurance, so this really needs to be addressed.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Let me ask you, as you look forward, do you
feel that the innovative things you've done in Laguna Beach
are sort of validated by what you've seen up in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
I think they are validated, but there's really so much
more for us to do because when you look at
as Chief King was describing earlier, when you have a
fire with the winds that we saw in Los Angeles,
there's very little.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
That can be done to mitigate it.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
So the question is how do we kind of change
our playbook and reject the assumptions of what we've been
able to do in the past and what fires have
been like in the past, and really prepare for a
new normal. So even though I think we've been heading
in the right direction, there's so much more for us
to do, and we're not going to take our foot
off again pedal, because as you know, public safety is
the most important role of local government.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
You've also made a point I hadn't really thought about,
which is you have to be planning simultaneously for the
potential for an earthquake as well as the potential for mudslides,
as well as the potential for really big fire. I mean,
all three of those have to somehow be in your
city plan. Absolutely, isn't that pretty complicated.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
It's very complicated, and it requires one step at a time.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Right now, we have our fire stations, all four of them.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
We haven't built a new fire station in fifty years,
and all four of ours fire stations, if an earthquake
happens could come down where finally we're building one, we're
about to start building.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
And so there's so much work to do. And I
think a lot of cities.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
In like we're about to approach our one hundred year
anniversary in twenty twenty seven, and a lot of cities
like us that are older have not made the proper
investments in infrastructure. I think it's going to be a
theme that we're seeing across the state of California. So
it's easy to not make those investments in infrastructure. No
one's going to get mad at you at the time,
but it's important that as leaders we make those necessary
(21:05):
investments because at the end of the day, they're going
to be critical for the public safety threats that we
face in the future and the present.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
So I'm really curious when you think about trying to
prevent the huge fires though, such as the one we're
living through now. The goat program may really be a
major contributor. But what's the relative cost of using goats
versus other messas of clearing this underbrush.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Well, goats are absolutely a very cost effective program. Our
estimate is that per acre, goats cost eight hundred and
sixty dollars, whereas hand crews cost four thousand dollars an acre,
So it's around twenty percent of the cost of hand crews.
It's the most cost effective form of fuel modification that
we have at our disposal.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Prior to these fires, has the state been increasingly opposed
to any kind of clearing of the underbrush?
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Well, the state has a lot of permits that are
required for fuel modification, but going forward, we cannot get
new permits for goats. We can only do them for
hand crews. The Chief can correct me if I'm wrong,
that's correct.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So the state basically is creating a fivefold increase in
cost to have people rather than goats. As an outsider,
I'm not shocked, but it strikes me as not very clever.
Mister Mary, I know you've got to run, and I
want to thank you given everything you're doing. I really
appreciate your taking the time to talk with us.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Thank you, mister speaker.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
It's an honor to be a part of this, So
thank you for including us.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
We've heard a lot, and there's been a lot on
TV at least about the whole process of whether or
not Lost Angelus itself was getting the resources that needed
and to my surprise, I mean, the police chief's been
pretty blunt about this. Do you have any sense of
how much underfunded they were and to what degree that
weaken their ability to stop the fire?
Speaker 6 (23:14):
I've heard what everyone else has heard on the news,
and those impacts truly unknown. I know the fire chief
made some pretty strong statements, and it looked like there
was a memo that she had drafted prior to the
onset of these firestorms, and it was addressing the readiness
of some of their aerial fleet, and those are obviously
very very expensive resources and you have to have a
(23:36):
lot of the maintenance and the training hours that go
along with it. She seemed to be addressing that, but
as far as any kind of slowing of the responsiveness
of those resources, that's all yet to be determined.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I appreciate and again that you've been fortunate in that
Laguna Beach actually has been seriously concerned and has done
a lot of the right things, both about fire safety
but also trying to maintain a really good city.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
One of the best benefits is we have a very
very engaged community here. They know that they all live
in a state designated very high fire hazard severity zone.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Which means that we have the weather.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
You know, the climate is such that it's conducive to fires.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
There's a lot of vegetation.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
Here, and then we have those Santa Ana win events
that come seasonally, and you look throughout our community that
people are living in some older wood framed homes. Laguna
Beach is on a hillside. Most of our community has
a great beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean and they
love the vegetation that is around their houses in the hillside.
(24:43):
So it's all very very nice to live here, and
it's an incredible climate, but it's these times of years
where you're reminded of the risk that comes along with it.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
A Los Angeles Times reported today that fire officials are
now being to look for the source of the fars.
Do you have something like this, How do you go
back and look for the source of a fire on
this scale?
Speaker 6 (25:05):
The investigative process is a whole different science than fire suppression,
and we have especially trained investigators in our profession. It's
hard to imagine, but the size and the scope of
the devastation that has occurred, you can take it back
to what is a logical point of origin, and that's
with the given weather conditions and the slope the topography,
(25:28):
you can trace this fireback to a corner where it
is probably likely the.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Point of origin.
Speaker 6 (25:34):
These investigators go in and they are looking for any
types of devices, anything that's left behind that might have
indicated that there was an accident there, that there's a
small campfire. Whatever they're looking for is going to be
in a logical place near the point of origin, and
so they mark it off and they treat it as
(25:55):
almost as a crime scene, and until they can prove
that it's not and they secure all the evidence, they
send it to labs to get tested if there is
any evidence, more often than not, they'll be able to
come up with a cause. The most important is doing
those interviews for people that saw the initial line of
smoke that was coming from an area, that reported the
(26:15):
fire and where was that And I heard indications that
they were looking into a fire that had happened previously
from New Year's Eve and that might have been the area.
So they just take those leads in those reports and
they continue to follow up on them until they can
find that cause.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
If you don't mind my asking the chief, how long
have you been involved in firefighting?
Speaker 6 (26:36):
This is my thirty fourth year in the fire service.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Well, so, if a young person happens to be listening
to this podcast, would you encourage them to consider being
a firefighter?
Speaker 6 (26:48):
Oh, it's the best profession in the world.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Why is that?
Speaker 6 (26:51):
When I was younger, it was about the physical challenges
that were there and you get to be outdoors and
it's not going to be confined in an office. That
was first active to me. But as I jumped into
the career, you start realizing that the cliche of I
like to help people, well that's real.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
It's real.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
You get to on a daily basis respond out of
a fire station and you make those human connections, and
you really do get to see the difference that you
make in people's lives, There's no question about it. And
as trained EMTs and paramedics, especially along the lines of
just having the experience and seeing more and more, you
realize the value and.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
The difference that you can make in this profession. To
that end, people.
Speaker 6 (27:35):
Really do appreciate the firefighters, So you couldn't think of
a better profession where people are incredibly grateful to have
the fire service and the profession around.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
You know, I want to thank you for joining me.
I realize how really busy all of you are right now,
but you're helping us better understand the challenges of Los
Angeles and the firefighters who are facing to really try
to bring these wildfares under control. Our thoughts and prayers
are with those firefighters, with the first responders, and with
all the people who are really in danger of losing
(28:08):
their homes and losing everything they've collected their whole life.
So around the country, I think we're all thinking about
and praying for the Angelino's been through such a terrible
and traumatic thing, and you really were a help coming
on and talking to us.
Speaker 6 (28:21):
Well, it's been an absolute automous or speaker to not
only meet you, but to share some of the great
stories of what the firefighters in the state of California
and across the country are going through right now in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So thank you for this opportunity.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Thank you to my guests, Mayor Alex Renaggi and Fire
Chief Nico King from the city of Laguna Beach, California.
You can learn more about the California wildfires on our
show page at newtsworld dot com. New World is produced
by Gager three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is
Guernsey Slow. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for
(29:01):
the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to
the team at Gingrish three sixty. If you've been enjoying
New World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and
both rate us with five stars and give us a
review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now,
listeners of newt World consign up for my three freeweekly
columns at gingrichsthree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm new Gingrich.
(29:25):
This is neutral,
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