May 21, 2025 • 21 mins
Newt talks with Ryan McDermott about his new book, "Downriver: Memoir of a Warrior Poet," which chronicles his journey from leading an infantry platoon during the 2003 Iraq invasion to navigating the 2008 financial crisis and dealing with personal challenges like PTSD. McDermott, a U.S. Army veteran and current senior director of National Security Policy at the Aerospace Industries Association, shares his motivations for writing the book, including catharsis and raising awareness about veterans' struggles. He reflects on his experiences at West Point, the emotional toll of combat, and the transition to civilian life, including his time at Lehman Brothers during its collapse. McDermott emphasizes the importance of family and introspection, hoping his story will resonate with others facing similar challenges.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
On this episode of News World. In his new book Downriver,
Memoir of a Warrior Poet, Ryan McDermott takes us from
the front lines of the two thousand and three invasion
of Iraq, where he led an infantry platoon in several
intense battles, including the Battle for Baghdad as part of
the Third Infantry Division, through the collapse of Lehman Brothers
during the two thousand and eight financial crisis, and into
(00:26):
the private struggles of reintegration and post traumatic stress disorder PTSD.
His memoir explores the emotional toll of combat, the burden
of battlefield leadership, and the collapse of identity that follows
war and ambition. He examines what it means to survive
the battlefield only to face another war at home, with family,
(00:47):
with memory, and with himself here to talk about his
new book. I am really pleased to welcome my guest,
Ryan McDermott. He is a US Army veteran who served
from two thousand to two thousand and six, and he
is currently Senior Director of National Security Policy at the
Aerospace Industries Association. Ryan, welcome and thank you for joining
(01:18):
me on News World.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Mister speaker, thank you for having me on. I'm really
excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, I'm really curious, why did you choose to tell
your story?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Now, that's a great question. You know, I wrote the
book for Catharsis. This has been a project of mine
actually since I was at West Point. There's a scene.
I don't cover it all in the summary, but you know,
as I was applying to West Point when I was
in high school, my family broke apart. My mother and
stepfather divorced, and our home went into foreclosure during my
(01:46):
senior year of high school and I was forced to
move out my mother. At some point later, I ended
up in a hospital and Catholic family took me in
when I was to finish out my high school year
as I waited for admission. I got admitted to West
Point and I began my writing process there and through
war periodically, i've gone back and sort of written for Catharsis.
That was for me. I wanted to put this out
(02:09):
because I've continued to see friends veterans who've committed suicide.
I'm doing great, but I've seen there's been too many
veterans and also just broader society. You see that, and
also an awareness to the general public. This is a
book for everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You cover a pretty wide slice of life. What was
your experience like at west Point and would you recommend
it to young people who might listen to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh, west Point was just an amazing experience, and I'll
have to admit that my book, in terms of that chapter,
I don't go into a lot of the detail. There's
a little bit I touch upon. I take a different
angle because there's a lot of west Point books. But
my son Brandon, who wrote the afterword, is actually a
senior getting ready to graduate, and so that explains the timing.
(02:57):
I wanted my children to have reached adult before putting
this story out, and my youngest daughter is eighteen. But
west Point is an amazing experience. It brings people from everywhere.
You know, I came from a blue collar background and
what was broken home at the time, and the military training,
the discipline, the challenge, the intellectual rigor that was instilled there.
(03:19):
There's also a lot of character development that goes on
at west Point. There's actually a big part of that chapter.
It's really the spiritual introspection that I go into in
a very personal way in that chapter. But it prepared
me for leadership, prepared me for combat ultimately, and I
think a lot of the values that we have as
Americans and sort of West Point is just an amazing institution.
(03:42):
Anybody that's got a child that thinks they want to serve,
I think any of the service academies are a great option.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You're sort of unusual. I think it's fair to say
in that you and not only becoming a soldier and
a leader and learning the things they teach, you're becoming
a poet. You have to explain, I mean, what was
it that got you to be a poet while you
were becoming a soldier.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, interestingly, West Point has a course where you have
to study literature, you study poem, you have to actually
recite sort of like the Saint Crispin's speech is one
that I did and I love it. It's one of my
favorite speeches of inspiring And at one point we had
to actually write a poem, and so one of those
is in there. And what I found is that poetry
(04:26):
is a great outlet for emotion. And that's how it
fits in the book is you've got the emotion of
the moment expressed along with prose that is in some way,
it's retrospective and more descriptatory.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That's great. You're going through West Point, You're becoming a
soldier poet. Tell me, where does Lucy show up?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
We were acquainted in high school. What's interesting the family
that brought me into their home and I basically live
with them when anytime I came off of break. My
mother was for a time in a woman shelter and
rebuilt her life during that time. But the family that
sort of took me and I had my stuff there
and I came back. They lived in the same neighborhood.
(05:07):
They knew Lucy.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
In terms of the story here, we met right before
nine to eleven. I had gone through Ranger School, her sister.
I had been introduced through my sister. It's a complicated story,
but we met and then we fell in love. In
the aftermath of nine to eleven and the context of
that time, if you can recall, mister Speaker, it was
a lot of uncertainty in the world, both of us,
(05:30):
you know, we were eager to start a family and
that's what kind of brought us together. We have a
lot of commonalities. She's a more private person, so I
don't go into as much detail in her Well.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I'm not going to try to get you in trouble,
but just chalk for a minute about one of the
high points of your life. Was Brandon. Talked just a
little bit about Brandon.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I want to make sure I show all three of
my children equal love. They're all awesome kids. My son,
William is at the University of Central Florida. My daughter
is just graduating high school in the week. We had
Brandon right before the two thousand and three deployment, so
he was born in December of two thousand and two,
so this is a new family. I had my wife,
my son, and we get the orders around Christmas time
(06:11):
in two thousand and two. We're going to be going
to Kuwait Brandon. He has got such discipline and character.
West Point has really molded him from where he was
spiritual development, character development, leader, development, educationally. He's about to commission.
He's going to be an armor officer, and very excited
(06:33):
for him. I think it's the first armored division that's
out at Fort Bliss, but he is very committed to service.
He wrote the afterword and I'll spare that, but I
think it's one of the most powerful parts of.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
The book, I can say as a father, well, you know,
watching your children grow up, watching them develop, gives you
a whole new life. It's an amazing thing. So you
go to war, you want to have to talk briefly
about that experience. You're right in the middle of the
fighting in Baghdad.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, So the book covers a few battles. One battle
is we were the first across the border at our
lane and not much resistance fought to Najaf and this
is record pace. We've got to Najah. There's an escarpment
where it's a high ground. We were the first to
go across that. And then there was the storms. There's
a period of time where the sort of sandstorms slowed
(07:19):
us down. The focal point of the book really is
on the actions from the main assault in the Baghdadit
we were the sort of the first through the Karbala gap.
This is a geographic constraint point through and we were
the first mechanized unit to cross the bridge at the
Euphrates River. And this battle hasn't really been written. There's
(07:40):
some articles about it, but this battle I think is
a major battle. There's a historical aspect to the book
I think in covering that piece, so the entire US
Army crossed the bridge at this point, I cover that
in detail, and then the book covers the assault onto
the Saddam International Airport, and I think everyone remembers when
Iraqi I think his name was nickname was Bagdad Bob
(08:02):
said we were all dead. We were on the airfield
at that time when he was making that claim. And
then there's some other stuff in the aftermath in terms
of the transition from major combat operations into the post
major combat sort of the stability operations that I go
into before the redeployment home.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
What did you take from that experience when you came home.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That's a great question. We were very proud of what
we did from a military perspective. We were very proud
having executed every single mission. We felt the support of
the country as well. There are groups of people who
sent banners and pictures, and it's hard to say I
took an appreciation for our country. I mean, I really did.
(09:04):
I mean, when you see when you experience something like
that and you see the fabric of society, one of
the sort of high level takeaways I took is how important,
how lucky we are in our country to have what
we have, and just a great appreciation for my family.
I mean, as you're going through there's letters that we've written.
You know, we didn't have technology, so it'd be weeks.
(09:26):
I'd send a letter and she would read it and
it's like two weeks ago, and so you lose touch.
I'm talking in away. It's almost like fragmented, and that's
how a little bit of the memory is because you
see a lot of things you really shouldn't see, and
that's covered in the book. Giving an example, what was
written about is the thunder runs and we're you know,
sort of post combat operations. This is a grizzly detail.
(09:47):
There are dead people, you know, and what do you
do with them? There's a little bit of that. I
try to be unfiltered about the realities of war. There's
a lot I still have with me.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It's truly tragedy because so many people like yourself did
their jobs brilliantly and it was something we could be
very proud of it. And in a way, the peak
was the initial period immediately after winning, and from there
on it just got harder and more difficult. But you've
come home, and when you come home, you make a
really big decision, which is leave the army and go
(10:19):
into investment banking. Why did you pick investment banking?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, there's a gap. There's something in there I want
to cover, mister Speaker, because it's probably one of the
most important parts of the book. It all translates into
the investment banking. So when we got back, we had
two weeks and they said get ready to go back,
and that was a hard thing to sort of swallow.
I didn't immediately just get out. They did a stop loss.
And I think this is a very important part of
(10:44):
the book as I talk about the state side support
of the family and readiness group. And there's a part
of the book where I go into receiving the families
of fallen soldiers for a ceremony to dedicate a tree.
And we started that year thinking, okay, we weren't sure
how much service and sacrifice. You know, you have a mother,
a father, and they're coming. They've already heard from the
(11:06):
casually notification officers, but we had to explain to them,
here's what happened. Your son is a hero. He died
for his country in a worthy cause. There's a scene
there that kind of captures that and there's an evolution
of the people that I served with. These were friends
of mine I had trained with. They went and deployed
that year. They were gone for a full year, and
(11:27):
then they came back and you know, you could see
them different. During that year. I was sort of in
this almost like a disconnection.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Note.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I was reading the Casualty List and I had always
wanted to go back and get my MBA. I looked
at finance and investment banking as like, hey, I thrive
on challenge, and that's a great challenge that I want
to take on. And that's what put me on that path.
And I had a great experience at the business school.
So that's how I ended up making that sort of transition.
(11:55):
Part of it was, I mean, this is where some guilt.
I put my own money behind this book process. And
the big reason why is, you know, I left the
Army early and there's a part of me that feels
somewhat guilty. This is the part of the PTSD, you know,
of a survivor's guilt or whatever.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I wanted to put a story out there that appreciates
the service because there are people that served multiple tours
years of their life overseas. I can talk specifics about
the process. But once we got to business school, we
had our son during that year when everyone else was deployed,
and then we had our daughter right as we went
to business school, so we had a full family in
our house. And this is right before the two thousand
(12:36):
and seven or two thousand and eight financial crisis.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
You're at Lehman Brothers, You're doing well in Boom. There's
a real crisis. What was that like? You must have felt,
on one hand, well, everything's gone perfectly, and then the
following morninggo well, maybe not well.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I have to say that the year before two thousand
and seven, when I did the internship, there's some signs
out there there was a hedge fund that went under.
But I talked about how the iPhone came out that
summer and it was just a boom peak year, and
there's a scene where I talk about the boom bus cycle.
So at the end of the summer I signed up.
I had money. That money helped me get through my
second year of business school, the signing bonus, and when
(13:14):
we showed up, I have to admit, like when we
showed up, it was kind of clear things were rocky
at Lehman. They had moved through multiple waves of layoffs.
The stress was very high because if you didn't pass tests,
you were gone, and so that exacerbated and when it
went under. The friday before Lehman went under, we actually
had sort of like a wine tasting event, and you know,
(13:37):
it's celebrating the end of our training and literally that
weekend is when the bankruptcy happened.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So how do you deal with that? Are you now
part of a bankrupt company? Are they still paying you
or what's going on?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, what happened is Barkley's Capital, bock Bank and the
people and so they did sort of a post merger integration.
The folks from their company come over, ours come over,
and there are some bankers that a lot of people
were looking where to go, you know, people with relationships
potentially look to go to other places. They had to
lock down a certain number of senior bankers to complete
(14:12):
the deal, but at the junior level you're sort of expendable.
You're just sort of in the wake of all the
tidal wave that was going on back then.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
From your perspective, you've come out of the military in
a military campaign which has its own turmoil. And now
you've had business school, which sort of seems stable, and
then you've got a job in a very famous institution
which suddenly wasn't stable. How do you deal with this
(15:00):
up and down? It's like writing an amazing roller coaster.
Are you out looking for work?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah? Eventually I did. And there's some parts that are
intentionally like vague. I eventually lost the job, but then
I had a bridge job. And this is the piece
that's a little bit vague, is the deterioration of the
marriage and our separation, which is how the book begins
that I'm at this rock bottom moment. One thing I
wanted to talk about though, during this whole bankruptcy process.
(15:27):
One of the things that hit me was, and this
is how the story from Iraq ties into this, is
there is a friend of mine from the basic course
who I introduced in the story. His name is Travis
Patrick Quinn, and Travis Patrick Quinn. There's a book written
about him, just about him that I sort of gave
some background to the author from. He was very important
as Sony Awakening in two thousand and six. He was
(15:49):
this captain who was able to bridge relationships with the
sunny shakes, And the bottom line is he died, and
I think it was two thousand and six. It was
essentially the same time the day I was on Wall
Street networking for a job. I didn't realize he had
died until two years later. And the moment that I
(16:13):
realized it was like mentioned on a television program about
him because sort of a high profile contributions to what
became the surge and so forth. We were on a mission.
We literally freezing cold weather in the lowlands of Georgia
during the basic course, and he kept me warm so
it didn't get hypothermia. I mean, that's the kind of
(16:33):
bond we soldiers have. And so when I learned that
he died, it had an effect on me, and I
felt enormously guilty that once I got to business school,
I didn't keep track of the casualty list. I stopped
paying attention to those who were sacrificing for our country.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
When you are dealing with all this, it becomes very personal,
and I think for a period there it sort of
shook your core commitment and core sense of optimism. How
did you deal with that? How did you come to
grips with sort of restructuring yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
That's a great question. It took a moment where I broke.
There's a great quote from Hemingway and it has to
the world breaks everyone from a farewell to arms. That's
in sort of quote at the end, you're strong up
the broke places. Once I hit this point, I sought
out counseling. This realization that I needed to talk to someone.
Now I don't say this explicitly, but that's kind of
(17:29):
the goal is make myself vulnerable, show that I went
through counseling. That's how the book is broken up. There's
four different counseling sessions. They're dramatized, but to reflect the
real process. And so that was really important is to
be able to talk to somebody, get that mirror respect,
and that really helped me get on that path. And
I have to say, up until that point in time,
(17:49):
I was really focused on my career as sort of
the means and end. And what I realized at the
end of it, and this is kind of a spoiler,
is that's my children. You know, their well being. The
focal point of what really matters is their well being
and making sure that things are lining up, that my
world is built around that foundation of the family.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Now you had separated at one point, but you sort
of come full circle when you are with Lucy and
you go back up to West Point to celebrate brands
Cross of twenty twenty five Ring weekend, and now you're
watching him parade. Talk about that, talk about the emotion, well.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That emotion, you know, and the reconciliation process with Lucy
over the years, through COVID and everything. Just enormous pride.
I got to walk do a walk march out when
they were just out of their basic course. They do
a march back from this camp all the way back
to West Points about twelve miles. And I have to say,
all these kids, all these young men and women, they're
(18:55):
choosing to serve after twenty years of war, they've seen
that's the history. So Brandon, he is very humble. He
would like say, is just honored. He's humble to be
amongst that group. You know, it was a very emotional
moment because as a parent, you know, I feel it's
like I can never do enough. But he's very gracious
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Your story is both very personal and part of the
history of the country. If you could summarize it. What
do you hope people will take from your story?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Well, one thing I hope people take from it is
there's a lot of introspection in thinking about how the
past the sort of prologue to where we are today,
My life is prologue for my children's life. If you
sort of rationalize the past a little bit, it can
do a lot of good towards focusing on what matters
for the future. Inspiring that introspection, there was a gentleman
(19:48):
who came out. He was a veteran, had gone through
some a difficult time a divorce. Recently. I had shared
my book and he was very, very sort of appreciative
because I think it helped him feel connected to something
like that. But I think General Population Downriver is a
book that if you want to sort of an appreciation
for that whole experience twenty thirty years from now, it
(20:11):
does kind of capture some of those moments like Iraq
Lehman Brothers, even nine to eleven, Like what it was
like back then.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Reminded me of Faulkner in paraphrasing. We said one time
that the past has never passed. It's always with us
and is always part of the fabric of our life,
and I think that that's in a sense what you capture.
And I think the idea of being a warrior poet
is something we could use a lot more of in
the American system. Ran, I want to thank you for
(20:40):
joining me. Your new book, Downriver Memoir of a Warrior
Poet is available now in Amazon and in bookstores everywhere,
and I appreciate so much you're sharing your life with
the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Mister speaker, thank you for having me on today.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Thank you to my guest Ryan McDermott. You can get
a link to buy his new book, Downriver Memoir of
a Warrior Poet on our show page at newtsworld dot com.
Newtsworld is produced by Gingrash three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our
executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson.
The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley.
(21:19):
Special thanks to the team at Gaishtree sixty. If you've
been enjoying Nutsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast
and both rate us with five stars and give us
a review so others can learn what it's all about.
Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my
three freeweekly columns at gingristree sixty dot com slash newsletter.
(21:39):
I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.
On this episode of News World. In his new book Downriver,
Memoir of a Warrior Poet, Ryan McDermott takes us from
the front lines of the two thousand and three invasion
of Iraq, where he led an infantry platoon in several
intense battles, including the Battle for Baghdad as part of
the Third Infantry Division, through the collapse of Lehman Brothers
during the two thousand and eight financial crisis, and into
(00:26):
the private struggles of reintegration and post traumatic stress disorder PTSD.
His memoir explores the emotional toll of combat, the burden
of battlefield leadership, and the collapse of identity that follows
war and ambition. He examines what it means to survive
the battlefield only to face another war at home, with family,
(00:47):
with memory, and with himself here to talk about his
new book. I am really pleased to welcome my guest,
Ryan McDermott. He is a US Army veteran who served
from two thousand to two thousand and six, and he
is currently Senior Director of National Security Policy at the
Aerospace Industries Association. Ryan, welcome and thank you for joining
(01:18):
me on News World.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Mister speaker, thank you for having me on. I'm really
excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, I'm really curious, why did you choose to tell
your story?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Now, that's a great question. You know, I wrote the
book for Catharsis. This has been a project of mine
actually since I was at West Point. There's a scene.
I don't cover it all in the summary, but you know,
as I was applying to West Point when I was
in high school, my family broke apart. My mother and
stepfather divorced, and our home went into foreclosure during my
(01:46):
senior year of high school and I was forced to
move out my mother. At some point later, I ended
up in a hospital and Catholic family took me in
when I was to finish out my high school year
as I waited for admission. I got admitted to West
Point and I began my writing process there and through
war periodically, i've gone back and sort of written for Catharsis.
That was for me. I wanted to put this out
(02:09):
because I've continued to see friends veterans who've committed suicide.
I'm doing great, but I've seen there's been too many
veterans and also just broader society. You see that, and
also an awareness to the general public. This is a
book for everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You cover a pretty wide slice of life. What was
your experience like at west Point and would you recommend
it to young people who might listen to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh, west Point was just an amazing experience, and I'll
have to admit that my book, in terms of that chapter,
I don't go into a lot of the detail. There's
a little bit I touch upon. I take a different
angle because there's a lot of west Point books. But
my son Brandon, who wrote the afterword, is actually a
senior getting ready to graduate, and so that explains the timing.
(02:57):
I wanted my children to have reached adult before putting
this story out, and my youngest daughter is eighteen. But
west Point is an amazing experience. It brings people from everywhere.
You know, I came from a blue collar background and
what was broken home at the time, and the military training,
the discipline, the challenge, the intellectual rigor that was instilled there.
(03:19):
There's also a lot of character development that goes on
at west Point. There's actually a big part of that chapter.
It's really the spiritual introspection that I go into in
a very personal way in that chapter. But it prepared
me for leadership, prepared me for combat ultimately, and I
think a lot of the values that we have as
Americans and sort of West Point is just an amazing institution.
(03:42):
Anybody that's got a child that thinks they want to serve,
I think any of the service academies are a great option.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You're sort of unusual. I think it's fair to say
in that you and not only becoming a soldier and
a leader and learning the things they teach, you're becoming
a poet. You have to explain, I mean, what was
it that got you to be a poet while you
were becoming a soldier.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, interestingly, West Point has a course where you have
to study literature, you study poem, you have to actually
recite sort of like the Saint Crispin's speech is one
that I did and I love it. It's one of my
favorite speeches of inspiring And at one point we had
to actually write a poem, and so one of those
is in there. And what I found is that poetry
(04:26):
is a great outlet for emotion. And that's how it
fits in the book is you've got the emotion of
the moment expressed along with prose that is in some way,
it's retrospective and more descriptatory.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That's great. You're going through West Point, You're becoming a
soldier poet. Tell me, where does Lucy show up?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
We were acquainted in high school. What's interesting the family
that brought me into their home and I basically live
with them when anytime I came off of break. My
mother was for a time in a woman shelter and
rebuilt her life during that time. But the family that
sort of took me and I had my stuff there
and I came back. They lived in the same neighborhood.
(05:07):
They knew Lucy.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
In terms of the story here, we met right before
nine to eleven. I had gone through Ranger School, her sister.
I had been introduced through my sister. It's a complicated story,
but we met and then we fell in love. In
the aftermath of nine to eleven and the context of
that time, if you can recall, mister Speaker, it was
a lot of uncertainty in the world, both of us,
(05:30):
you know, we were eager to start a family and
that's what kind of brought us together. We have a
lot of commonalities. She's a more private person, so I
don't go into as much detail in her Well.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I'm not going to try to get you in trouble,
but just chalk for a minute about one of the
high points of your life. Was Brandon. Talked just a
little bit about Brandon.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I want to make sure I show all three of
my children equal love. They're all awesome kids. My son,
William is at the University of Central Florida. My daughter
is just graduating high school in the week. We had
Brandon right before the two thousand and three deployment, so
he was born in December of two thousand and two,
so this is a new family. I had my wife,
my son, and we get the orders around Christmas time
(06:11):
in two thousand and two. We're going to be going
to Kuwait Brandon. He has got such discipline and character.
West Point has really molded him from where he was
spiritual development, character development, leader, development, educationally. He's about to commission.
He's going to be an armor officer, and very excited
(06:33):
for him. I think it's the first armored division that's
out at Fort Bliss, but he is very committed to service.
He wrote the afterword and I'll spare that, but I
think it's one of the most powerful parts of.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
The book, I can say as a father, well, you know,
watching your children grow up, watching them develop, gives you
a whole new life. It's an amazing thing. So you
go to war, you want to have to talk briefly
about that experience. You're right in the middle of the
fighting in Baghdad.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, So the book covers a few battles. One battle
is we were the first across the border at our
lane and not much resistance fought to Najaf and this
is record pace. We've got to Najah. There's an escarpment
where it's a high ground. We were the first to
go across that. And then there was the storms. There's
a period of time where the sort of sandstorms slowed
(07:19):
us down. The focal point of the book really is
on the actions from the main assault in the Baghdadit
we were the sort of the first through the Karbala gap.
This is a geographic constraint point through and we were
the first mechanized unit to cross the bridge at the
Euphrates River. And this battle hasn't really been written. There's
(07:40):
some articles about it, but this battle I think is
a major battle. There's a historical aspect to the book
I think in covering that piece, so the entire US
Army crossed the bridge at this point, I cover that
in detail, and then the book covers the assault onto
the Saddam International Airport, and I think everyone remembers when
Iraqi I think his name was nickname was Bagdad Bob
(08:02):
said we were all dead. We were on the airfield
at that time when he was making that claim. And
then there's some other stuff in the aftermath in terms
of the transition from major combat operations into the post
major combat sort of the stability operations that I go
into before the redeployment home.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
What did you take from that experience when you came home.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That's a great question. We were very proud of what
we did from a military perspective. We were very proud
having executed every single mission. We felt the support of
the country as well. There are groups of people who
sent banners and pictures, and it's hard to say I
took an appreciation for our country. I mean, I really did.
(09:04):
I mean, when you see when you experience something like
that and you see the fabric of society, one of
the sort of high level takeaways I took is how important,
how lucky we are in our country to have what
we have, and just a great appreciation for my family.
I mean, as you're going through there's letters that we've written.
You know, we didn't have technology, so it'd be weeks.
(09:26):
I'd send a letter and she would read it and
it's like two weeks ago, and so you lose touch.
I'm talking in away. It's almost like fragmented, and that's
how a little bit of the memory is because you
see a lot of things you really shouldn't see, and
that's covered in the book. Giving an example, what was
written about is the thunder runs and we're you know,
sort of post combat operations. This is a grizzly detail.
(09:47):
There are dead people, you know, and what do you
do with them? There's a little bit of that. I
try to be unfiltered about the realities of war. There's
a lot I still have with me.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It's truly tragedy because so many people like yourself did
their jobs brilliantly and it was something we could be
very proud of it. And in a way, the peak
was the initial period immediately after winning, and from there
on it just got harder and more difficult. But you've
come home, and when you come home, you make a
really big decision, which is leave the army and go
(10:19):
into investment banking. Why did you pick investment banking?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, there's a gap. There's something in there I want
to cover, mister Speaker, because it's probably one of the
most important parts of the book. It all translates into
the investment banking. So when we got back, we had
two weeks and they said get ready to go back,
and that was a hard thing to sort of swallow.
I didn't immediately just get out. They did a stop loss.
And I think this is a very important part of
(10:44):
the book as I talk about the state side support
of the family and readiness group. And there's a part
of the book where I go into receiving the families
of fallen soldiers for a ceremony to dedicate a tree.
And we started that year thinking, okay, we weren't sure
how much service and sacrifice. You know, you have a mother,
a father, and they're coming. They've already heard from the
(11:06):
casually notification officers, but we had to explain to them,
here's what happened. Your son is a hero. He died
for his country in a worthy cause. There's a scene
there that kind of captures that and there's an evolution
of the people that I served with. These were friends
of mine I had trained with. They went and deployed
that year. They were gone for a full year, and
(11:27):
then they came back and you know, you could see
them different. During that year. I was sort of in
this almost like a disconnection.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Note.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I was reading the Casualty List and I had always
wanted to go back and get my MBA. I looked
at finance and investment banking as like, hey, I thrive
on challenge, and that's a great challenge that I want
to take on. And that's what put me on that path.
And I had a great experience at the business school.
So that's how I ended up making that sort of transition.
(11:55):
Part of it was, I mean, this is where some guilt.
I put my own money behind this book process. And
the big reason why is, you know, I left the
Army early and there's a part of me that feels
somewhat guilty. This is the part of the PTSD, you know,
of a survivor's guilt or whatever.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I wanted to put a story out there that appreciates
the service because there are people that served multiple tours
years of their life overseas. I can talk specifics about
the process. But once we got to business school, we
had our son during that year when everyone else was deployed,
and then we had our daughter right as we went
to business school, so we had a full family in
our house. And this is right before the two thousand
(12:36):
and seven or two thousand and eight financial crisis.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
You're at Lehman Brothers, You're doing well in Boom. There's
a real crisis. What was that like? You must have felt,
on one hand, well, everything's gone perfectly, and then the
following morninggo well, maybe not well.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I have to say that the year before two thousand
and seven, when I did the internship, there's some signs
out there there was a hedge fund that went under.
But I talked about how the iPhone came out that
summer and it was just a boom peak year, and
there's a scene where I talk about the boom bus cycle.
So at the end of the summer I signed up.
I had money. That money helped me get through my
second year of business school, the signing bonus, and when
(13:14):
we showed up, I have to admit, like when we
showed up, it was kind of clear things were rocky
at Lehman. They had moved through multiple waves of layoffs.
The stress was very high because if you didn't pass tests,
you were gone, and so that exacerbated and when it
went under. The friday before Lehman went under, we actually
had sort of like a wine tasting event, and you know,
(13:37):
it's celebrating the end of our training and literally that
weekend is when the bankruptcy happened.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So how do you deal with that? Are you now
part of a bankrupt company? Are they still paying you
or what's going on?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, what happened is Barkley's Capital, bock Bank and the
people and so they did sort of a post merger integration.
The folks from their company come over, ours come over,
and there are some bankers that a lot of people
were looking where to go, you know, people with relationships
potentially look to go to other places. They had to
lock down a certain number of senior bankers to complete
(14:12):
the deal, but at the junior level you're sort of expendable.
You're just sort of in the wake of all the
tidal wave that was going on back then.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
From your perspective, you've come out of the military in
a military campaign which has its own turmoil. And now
you've had business school, which sort of seems stable, and
then you've got a job in a very famous institution
which suddenly wasn't stable. How do you deal with this
(15:00):
up and down? It's like writing an amazing roller coaster.
Are you out looking for work?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah? Eventually I did. And there's some parts that are
intentionally like vague. I eventually lost the job, but then
I had a bridge job. And this is the piece
that's a little bit vague, is the deterioration of the
marriage and our separation, which is how the book begins
that I'm at this rock bottom moment. One thing I
wanted to talk about though, during this whole bankruptcy process.
(15:27):
One of the things that hit me was, and this
is how the story from Iraq ties into this, is
there is a friend of mine from the basic course
who I introduced in the story. His name is Travis
Patrick Quinn, and Travis Patrick Quinn. There's a book written
about him, just about him that I sort of gave
some background to the author from. He was very important
as Sony Awakening in two thousand and six. He was
(15:49):
this captain who was able to bridge relationships with the
sunny shakes, And the bottom line is he died, and
I think it was two thousand and six. It was
essentially the same time the day I was on Wall
Street networking for a job. I didn't realize he had
died until two years later. And the moment that I
(16:13):
realized it was like mentioned on a television program about
him because sort of a high profile contributions to what
became the surge and so forth. We were on a mission.
We literally freezing cold weather in the lowlands of Georgia
during the basic course, and he kept me warm so
it didn't get hypothermia. I mean, that's the kind of
(16:33):
bond we soldiers have. And so when I learned that
he died, it had an effect on me, and I
felt enormously guilty that once I got to business school,
I didn't keep track of the casualty list. I stopped
paying attention to those who were sacrificing for our country.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
When you are dealing with all this, it becomes very personal,
and I think for a period there it sort of
shook your core commitment and core sense of optimism. How
did you deal with that? How did you come to
grips with sort of restructuring yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
That's a great question. It took a moment where I broke.
There's a great quote from Hemingway and it has to
the world breaks everyone from a farewell to arms. That's
in sort of quote at the end, you're strong up
the broke places. Once I hit this point, I sought
out counseling. This realization that I needed to talk to someone.
Now I don't say this explicitly, but that's kind of
(17:29):
the goal is make myself vulnerable, show that I went
through counseling. That's how the book is broken up. There's
four different counseling sessions. They're dramatized, but to reflect the
real process. And so that was really important is to
be able to talk to somebody, get that mirror respect,
and that really helped me get on that path. And
I have to say, up until that point in time,
(17:49):
I was really focused on my career as sort of
the means and end. And what I realized at the
end of it, and this is kind of a spoiler,
is that's my children. You know, their well being. The
focal point of what really matters is their well being
and making sure that things are lining up, that my
world is built around that foundation of the family.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Now you had separated at one point, but you sort
of come full circle when you are with Lucy and
you go back up to West Point to celebrate brands
Cross of twenty twenty five Ring weekend, and now you're
watching him parade. Talk about that, talk about the emotion, well.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That emotion, you know, and the reconciliation process with Lucy
over the years, through COVID and everything. Just enormous pride.
I got to walk do a walk march out when
they were just out of their basic course. They do
a march back from this camp all the way back
to West Points about twelve miles. And I have to say,
all these kids, all these young men and women, they're
(18:55):
choosing to serve after twenty years of war, they've seen
that's the history. So Brandon, he is very humble. He
would like say, is just honored. He's humble to be
amongst that group. You know, it was a very emotional
moment because as a parent, you know, I feel it's
like I can never do enough. But he's very gracious
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Your story is both very personal and part of the
history of the country. If you could summarize it. What
do you hope people will take from your story?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Well, one thing I hope people take from it is
there's a lot of introspection in thinking about how the
past the sort of prologue to where we are today,
My life is prologue for my children's life. If you
sort of rationalize the past a little bit, it can
do a lot of good towards focusing on what matters
for the future. Inspiring that introspection, there was a gentleman
(19:48):
who came out. He was a veteran, had gone through
some a difficult time a divorce. Recently. I had shared
my book and he was very, very sort of appreciative
because I think it helped him feel connected to something
like that. But I think General Population Downriver is a
book that if you want to sort of an appreciation
for that whole experience twenty thirty years from now, it
(20:11):
does kind of capture some of those moments like Iraq
Lehman Brothers, even nine to eleven, Like what it was
like back then.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Reminded me of Faulkner in paraphrasing. We said one time
that the past has never passed. It's always with us
and is always part of the fabric of our life,
and I think that that's in a sense what you capture.
And I think the idea of being a warrior poet
is something we could use a lot more of in
the American system. Ran, I want to thank you for
(20:40):
joining me. Your new book, Downriver Memoir of a Warrior
Poet is available now in Amazon and in bookstores everywhere,
and I appreciate so much you're sharing your life with
the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Mister speaker, thank you for having me on today.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Thank you to my guest Ryan McDermott. You can get
a link to buy his new book, Downriver Memoir of
a Warrior Poet on our show page at newtsworld dot com.
Newtsworld is produced by Gingrash three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our
executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson.
The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley.
(21:19):
Special thanks to the team at Gaishtree sixty. If you've
been enjoying Nutsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast
and both rate us with five stars and give us
a review so others can learn what it's all about.
Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my
three freeweekly columns at gingristree sixty dot com slash newsletter.
(21:39):
I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.
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