July 19, 2025 • 35 mins
Newt talks with Jonathan Dickinson, CEO and José Inzunza, Chief Medical Officer, Co-Founders of Ambio Life Sciences, a global leader in integrative Ibogaine treatment. They discuss the potential of Ibogaine as a therapy for post-traumatic stress disorder, opioid addiction, and depression. Ibogaine is classified as a Schedule I controlled substance by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency and is primarily administered in treatment facilities outside the U.S., such as in Mexico and Canada. They talk about their experiences administering Ibogaine and insights into its therapeutic effects, particularly the ability to mitigate opioid withdrawal symptoms and improve neurological health. They also highlight the importance of patient preparation and the need for ongoing support post-treatment to prevent relapse. Ambio Life Sciences collaborated with Stanford University and their pioneering clinical program for neurodegenerative diseases to study conditions like Parkinson's and multiple sclerosis. Their discussion underscores Ibogaine's potential to revolutionize addiction treatment and neurological health.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
On this episode of Newts World. I've been doing a
series of podcasts in ibogain as a potentially effective therapy
for treating post traumatic stress disorder, opioid addiction, and depression.
Ibogain is a Level one substance as classified by the
Drug Enforcement Agency the United States, so many of the
treatment facilities are located in other countries, including Mexico and Canada.
(00:28):
After my conversations with both WW Bryan Hubbard from Americans
for Ibogaine and doctor Nolan Williams, who conducted a Stanford
study on ibogain, I was contacted by Ambio Life Sciences,
a company based in Mexico that administers ibogain treatments. They
have a great deal of experience in treating patients who
(00:49):
come to their facility for ibogain therapy, so I wanted
to have them on to talk about the process of
what patients experience. I'm really pleased to welcome my guests,
Jonathan Dickinson, CEO, and Jose and Sunza, chief medical Officer.
They are both co founders of Ambio Life Sciences, a
(01:09):
global leader in integrative I began treatment. Jonathan and Jose,
welcome and thank you for joining me. On news World.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Thank you very much, sir, it's honor to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Thank you so much for the time.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Jonathan, you've been working with Iboga and I Begaine since
two thousand and nine, both clinically and ceremonially. What originally
drew you to this work and how has your understanding
of its potential involved over time.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, so I began working with I began in late
two thousand and nine and had to come down here
to Mexico to begin doing that work. What drew me
originally was that when I was in high school, I
was having a challenging time at one point, and I
went into my general physician who had me fill out
(02:10):
a nine item questionnaire that had Zoloft written on the
top corner of the header, and it determined that I
was depressed and needed a zole off prescription. So for
several years I tried that and other ssrity depressants and
realized that they weren't really helping me much and had
(02:32):
a very very difficult time coming off of them, And
so I actually found other psychedelics early in my life,
several years after that, and after going through difficult withdrawals,
and they really helped me turn a corner and so
I feel like I was real again and I could
(02:52):
connect with life and to feel motivation and passion for
the world. And so that put me on a research
track that landed me in Mexico. So originally when I
came down, most of the treatment centers were focused on
opioid detoxification because ibgain is unique in its ability to
(03:13):
be able to mitigate withdrawal from opiates, and so that
wasn't necessarily my own experience, but it was such a
powerful and compelling use case for a psychedelic that I
dove right in. And it wasn't until four years ago
when we started working with an increasing number of veterans
who are looking for ibgin treatments that we started to
(03:36):
see the kind of story about what ibin was and
its potential and what it could do start to expand
into other arenas that were more similar to my own background.
So we have had the opportunity now working with veterans
to be able to see what it's like for patients
who I guess before we might have looked at a
(03:59):
lot of the health improvements that people hadn't attribute it
to the fact that they were no longer using drugs,
and now when drugs aren't always a factor, we're seeing
all kinds of sort of generalized health improvements or neurological
improvements that maybe are even underlying some of the benefits
for people with addictions. And so at MBO, you know,
(04:20):
in addition to working with Stanford and doctor Williams who
you had on previously and looking at its benefits for
traumatic brain injury and veterans, we've also been able to
see and start to describe some of the treatment effects
for people with other neurodegenerative conditions like Parkinson's and multiple sclerosis,
neuropathic pain, and other kinds of treatments for which there
(04:42):
are no existing pharmacological treatments available.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You're entering this new zone. And Jose, you've been a
paramedic and a firefighter. What brought you into the whole
eyeborgain treatment world?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Okay, Yeah, So in two thousand and nine hour working
here in Tijuana and the fire department, so here in
the border, we are dealing with epidemic since the two thousands, right,
So I was pretty close with dealing with overdoses and
treating these type of people in the streets. So around
November of two thousand and nine, I was invited by
(05:17):
one of my teachers to go and see in front
of a patient going through an IBGAN treatment. I didn't
know back in that time what it was IVI in,
but I did my research and I find out a
lot of really interesting stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Primary the power to reduce the withdrawal.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Symptoms in a matter of twenty four hours with this
type of patient. So since day one I was able
to experience and sit with somebody going through this process.
I was amazed by the power of this substance. I
was able to see somebody going through a really hardcore
addiction of a lot of years, then going through ibying,
(05:59):
and a matter of twelve or twenty four hours, this
person reduced dramastically with all symptoms she was feeling. So
at that moment I kind of realized that it was
really interesting in a really powerful medicine that I didn't
get teached in school. That exists, so for me open
a window to see the possibilities of healing and therapeutic
(06:21):
support with this medicine in terms of trauma and addiction.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Also, this was kind of a fortuitous piece of luck
that you observed that you saw it and you began
to respond to it. That's kind of amazing, is not.
It is now the two of you have both been
working with this in general, what would you say has
the reaction of the patient's been so far?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So generally, I mean, I think what we could say
is that people feel a sense of choice and agency
return where some aspect of that had eroded in their lives.
So it's maybe my attempt to try to find a
(07:09):
common denominator amongst people who have been using drugs and
feel like they don't have the option to stop. Like
when we get into an addictive pattern, it often feels
like by the time that we think about acting out
on an impulse, we're already well into the process of
(07:31):
doing it right. And so I begain in a very
short amount of time puts that back with an arom
of choice where we can have thoughts about a certain
behavior and choose not to act on it. I would
also say that one of the big motivations I think
for veterans coming down and one of the big goals
(07:53):
of the organizations like that's incorporated WOVE and providing grants
for treatments is for folks who are dealing with such
intense psychiatric or neurological symptoms that they're contemplating suicide. And
so I think one of the challenges when people are
facing that kind of impulse is not necessarily that there's
(08:18):
a desire to die, but that they kind of feel
backed into a corner and choice has again, in a
different way, eroded from their life, and that maybe suicide
is kind of this point of finality, like being able
to take back control of the story and have some
sort of control over life again. And so I think again,
(08:40):
when people are able to go through treatments, and whether
it's the psychological process that unfolds or the neurological improvement
that we're seeing or some mixture of both, I think again,
people feel this sense of choice again and this agency
to be able to engage in life and novel is.
(09:01):
And so I think it's difficult because we're getting to
see people from such different sort of walks of life
and different backgrounds. But I would say that's maybe one
of the commonalities, is this increasive agency for life.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
So people common experience and I like to say they
are three bodies right in their mind, the psych but
also in the body, and it tends to heal also
what we call a spirit, right, that's what the sense
of the experience they have when they come true. Seems
like they're all the options to keep going in life
(09:37):
has ended for them and they don't see any exit
to see the light of the beauty in life, and
they come with all these negative emotions or this sensation
where life is just going uphill and they're getting fatigue
to keep going and to keep pushing. So we see
(09:58):
this synergy between working and there are three bodies to
say that it creates a huge impact with what Jonathan
is saying, which is just a matter of having choice
in their life, just a way to see that they
have options and it's not just the way they're acting
in their life, but also see a different perspective and
see the light out of it, you know, like the
cloud that they have over their heads. It goes away
(10:21):
after the journey and they go to some physiological aspects
you know, as in the acute phase of the treatment
and then after So it's a process. It's important to
say this. It's not just a magic pill, a magic
bullet that you just take once and everything ends, or
you're going to cure everything. It doesn't work like that.
It's more profound, and it's important to mention also that
(10:43):
this is not a cure.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
For the diction.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Right, this is a huge tool for dependency, to help
people for dependency and for the physical dependency. Right after that,
there is still some work that we need to do
a matter of changing habits and take advantage of what
we call the critical period in the neuroplasticity may happense
after the treatment.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, right at the absolute cutting edge of science, and
that iboga contains at least thirteen different alkaloids. Does the
two of you work with it? What is your instinct
about what is it that makes this such a uniquely
powerful intervention?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Well, I think we still have a lot to learn
about how I begain works. What we've seen when we're
working with the other alkaloids, which are pretty minor sort
of constituents in the plant material, is that the mixture
is quite a lot stronger than just I begin on
(11:59):
a sound. So we don't really know necessarily if that
is because some of the other alkaloids are much more
potent by weight than ibegain is, or because they have
some kind of synergistic effects, or they change how we
metabolize the ibigain itself. Overall, whether we're working with the
(12:24):
eboga extract or working with purified ibogain, there's a very
consistent type of clinical effect that we get from it.
There's not a huge improvement from using very pure material.
In fact, what we find when the more pure the
(12:45):
ibogain is the almost more that we have to use,
because again it's less strong when there's less constituents in it,
so clinically or at least in the manufacturing process it
at least when we're not trying to satisfy FDA regulators,
there's not a huge return on investments for the increased
(13:08):
cost of reaching that level of purity, and we can
work with sort of a botanical drug to achieve the
same or sometimes even like more interesting subjective effects.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I'm reminded of the old story that you could never
get asper and approved today because we actually don't know
how it works. We've grandfathered in and we can produce
aspirin and billions of people have taken it, but we
literally could never meet the FDA standard. To what deal
is the very complexity of eyebo gain when measured against
(13:44):
what clearly is its impact put in a kind of
similar situation where we could spend so many years trying
to figure out what the underlying mechanisms are and we're
losing people every year while we're engaged in that kind
of research.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, I think it's a really good question that kind
of goes to their regulatory process. I think with aspirin,
one of the reasons why you might have an issue
getting it approved is because there's other things on the
market that have a similar kind of treatment effect. So
unless aspirin is substantially better than anything else that's out
(14:24):
there without understanding the mechanisms, it might be hard to approve.
In a case of I begain, It's very true we
don't understand fully it's mechanisms or how it works. We
have a lot of signals to work with. Ultimately, I
think that the process of studying I begin is going
to help us to better understand neuroscience and pharmacology. It's
(14:49):
going to drive us towards new disease targets and make
us think in a more complex way about how drugs
interact with neurons and others cells in the body. But
the benefit that I again has, even though we don't
necessarily have a fully transparent picture of how it works
is that its treatment effect is unmatched by anything else
(15:13):
that we know of today. So I think if you're
able to show that in a clinical trial and it's
evaluated on those merits, then it stands a chance.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
In a sense, we can show you evidence that works.
We just can't show you an explanation.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah. I think it depends to what degree can we
be certain about how it's achieving the effect, And right now,
I think we're still a ways from being able to
claim a high degree of certainty about that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
As Ambio's co founder, Jonathan, you led the development of
clinical guidelines for eyebogaine assisted detoxification, which remains a standard
in the field. In your experience, directly between the two
of you, to what extent have you able to minimize
the risk of side effects will helping people go through ibogain?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, I think this is a really interesting question, and
it sort of benefits from having a little bit of
background about the history. So when I began was first
tabled in front of the FDA, it was the early
nineteen nineties, and this was the effort of Howard Lotzov,
(16:28):
who discovered that as a young Heroin user living in
Staten Island, New York. When he took ibagain without knowing
what it was for, just experimenting with different compounds, he
found that he had no more withdrawal, no more cravings
or desire to use heroin again. And years later he
(16:49):
kind of took up the mantle and pressed and pressed
until he got to the point where the FDA was
allowing clinical trials and the National Institute on Drug Abuse
were funding some of those studies. Unfortunately, for various reasons,
the studies were discontinued, and after that time there had
(17:12):
been so many people who had been through ibegain treatment
and seen the effects. KAT was out of the bag,
so to speak, and some of the people who had
begun working with it ended up either working underground in
the United States for a period of time because it
was a schedule one substance, or left the country and
ended up in Mexico. And Mexico has been sort of
(17:34):
a fertile ground for the development of the clinical protocols
over time, and so when I came down in two
thousand and nine, there had been a number of fatalities
and other kinds of adverse events that had occurred, and
so I led a process of consultation with providers all
(17:56):
over the world, largely in Mexico where most of the
treatments we are taking place, and we worked with those
clinical providers with their experience as well as medical professionals
and researchers to identify what the primary risks were and
very practical measures it could be taken to reduce them
(18:17):
at this point, and Jose can speak to this more
about how we've developed that practically, but I think we
have a very clear idea about how to screen for
and prevent cardiac risk with IVAN, which is one of
the main issues that normally gets brought up. I think
(18:38):
that there are still risk factors that are in play,
especially when we're looking at trying to take people off
of street drugs and there's unknown quantities because drug interactions
are another of the primary risks. So clinically we do
everything we can to control against the risk of people
(19:00):
of using drugs that we don't know about, or that
perhaps that they don't even know about our president and
substances that they're using. But if we're treating people who
are not coming off of drugs and we're just trying
to reduce the risk of cardiac conditions or other kind
of pre existing medical conditions causing harm. I think we
have a very good, strong understanding of how to mitigate
(19:21):
those risks, and we've demonstrated that clinically over years treating
thousands of individuals.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well hose that let me ask you about that as
people go through this process. In the early days, as
I understand it, there was a real concern about cardiac
problems and that it could lead actually to heart attacks.
To what degree have you all been able to develop
an approach and I as I understand that part of
them may involve combining magnesium with ibergain, But to what
(19:51):
do we now is the risk of a heart attack
a dramatically lower risk than it was when people first
began experimenting.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yeah, So basically a lot of the work that we
have done to mitigate the risks with IVY and the
cardiac situation, it was just to use magnesium.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
But that's just one key of the whole protocol. Right.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Something that we have work a lot is on the
preparation of the patient and is to assess a proper preparation.
So we need to understand the basically eye again is
like going to surgery, right, and the more stable your
physical body is to go into surgery less of the
risk it is for you to go into bad situation.
(20:34):
So this is a controlled treatment. The even that is
a threat of life of death, we need to prepare
the person physically for.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Them to go strongly into the treatment.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
So some of all of the keys that we have
done to prevent or to mitigate cardiogo risks is to
evaluate really deeply the heart of the patients. Also understand
that sometimes medications are contrindicated with IBM, and we need
to stop those medications and we're talking here about SSRIs
until the presence, until the psychotics. So these are medications
(21:08):
that normally are really contrimunicated with ib Again, so it's
not just the magnesium part. It's also like hydration is
also helping the body with the metabolism after the IBM.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Some of the things that makes.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Ib IN really complex and the mechanism of action is
like the effects on the body can be lasting twenty
four hours three six hours, but the benefits of that
it comes after those twenty.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Four hours of tourist six hours.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
So it means that once after the metabolite is out
of your body is when you start feeling like the
positivity effects, right, and that makes it really unique. That's
something that we are not used to in medicine, right,
where we normally are getting this.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Instet gratification, right, like I think the AD.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Bill and it's going to kick in twenty minutes at
an hour, and then it's going to take away my headache, right,
so done. But then with IBIN, it's like longer. Right,
it's going to stay in your body for twenty four
hours thwty six hours. But then after that is when
the positive effects are going to be coming. It is
when the neutroplasticity with all the effects on the cellular
(22:18):
level or the ATP level is going to be happening
as a reward. So thesepects going back into the cardiator
itself is not just the magnetium or the proper electrolytes.
That's how we call it because I mean it does
block the hard channels, but it's mostly how to prepare
the patient emotionally if physically to go into a treatment, right,
(22:39):
and physically we're talking about reduce all the medications that
are for example prolonging the QT segment, also making sure
that the people is well hydrated, has a proper diet,
has a proper digestion, a proper metabolism, and then we
get to a point where we can serve the medicine.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And mitigate those risks, right telic screening.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
And I used to say that it's basically like if
somebody was going to surgery.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
In a number of studies, you have an initial impact,
but then there's a significant number of people who ultimately
relapse back into some kind of addiction. Does that indicate
that for a lot of people this is great to
break the pattern, but then you have to have really
substantial help in order to acquire the habits to not
(23:44):
relapse back into the habit. I mean, how would you
read that?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of things that are
factors when we're talking about addiction, and so one of
them is that there's a pharmacological element. Drugs take hold
of the brain and the nervous system, and that's just
one of the fact that people experience withdrawal and craving,
(24:11):
which get worse. Actually the more that people use, the
more that people try to come off of them, there's
an effect where those same withdrawal symptoms kind of get
worse the more that we go through that cycle, and
so I begain can help dramatically better than anything else
with those kind of physiological aspects of addiction, but there's
(24:33):
also psychological aspects. There's also social factors that contribute to addiction,
and so it's something that we try to prepare people
for when they're going into treatment that the more that
they can prepare to take I begain, considering it sort
of like assistance to ease a big life transition, the
(24:59):
better that they can do on the other end, right,
so the more that they have things set up when
they get home in a support of setting, the better
they're going to do. I don't think we could see
a huge benefit taking people off of the streets and
then putting them back onto the streets, for example, just
a sort of extreme image of that. But if people
(25:20):
are attempting to transition into supportive housing and other kinds
of work programs and then need to undergo chemical detoxification
as part of that process, I begain can be part
of the picture.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I think.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Do you think that ultimately there'll be some kind of
sophisticated connectivity where you go in, you detox, but then
you're almost expected to go through a rebuilding of the
right healthy habits that the two have to be combined
for to have optimal impact.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, that is correct.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
That's basically how this gets present this treatment, right, Like
I said before, it's not a magic bullet, it's not
something that is just going to change your life.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
In a matter of a day. Is basically that.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
So I think it's a great tool to mitigate the
physical withdrawal up to ninety percent, and then also is
really beneficial opening again the critical period with this process
when you can create neuroplasticity, which that means create your
perception of.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Life and create new abits.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Right, So this critical period is really important for the
people to understand that's the moment what they want to change,
really the activity of their lives, so they can just
create a new pattern, right, And that's as big as
important as the ivy and treatment itself. So that's where
Jonathan is mentioning to prepare the patients and the people
(26:51):
right tonight, just expect an easy cure and an easy
step is going to be really helpful to mitigate the
physical withdrawal, which is like the biggest part. But then
alongside that you're going to have to create your new
life and work towards that.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
To build on that a little bit. I think it's
really important that people feel very motivated to make that
change for themselves. Again, like I said, I think one
of the common denominators is that I begain gives us
back a greater sense of agency, and so when people
(27:27):
are already pursuing a change for themselves, they can make
great use of that increase agency and ability, right, And
so I think one of the things that we see
in Mexico is that by the time that people come
down here, they've already tried a lot of other things.
In most cases, they actually have to overcome quite a
(27:50):
few hurdles to get down here. So by the time
that people are coming to us, they've expressed and had
to act upon like a great deal of personal motivation,
and we think that contributes a lot to the success.
So I think it's important that when we look at
ibagain we see it as part of a process and
(28:13):
learn how to maximize this kind of efficacy in that way.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
One of the things that led me to want to
interview you two is that when we did a podcast
with doctor Williams at Stanford, you all somehow connected and
so now you have the imprimature of standard for university,
which is one of the great research out of the world,
and then they are remarkably positive about what you're doing.
(28:40):
How did that come about? I mean, I think that's
very interesting that MBO ends up working with Stanford on
a really national class study.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, I mean that came out of the relationship that
we have with veteran community organizations that are supporting veterans
to take IVY gain. They were really the common link
between us there. But yeah, it was an incredible experience
to be able to have. I think we've had a
really good relationship with different research partners over the years.
(29:14):
Obviously Stanford is one of the more prominent ones because
the study has already been published, but I think with
the real world evidence and clinical experience that we have,
we've been able to even go back to other research
partners as well and help to drive some of the
cellular research and animal research because we're able to sort
(29:37):
of hone in a little bit with them on what
would be interesting to look for. So I think it's
been a very fruitful partnership, and coming back from Stanford,
they've been able to show us because of the kind
of equipment and the experience that they have been able
to show us what's going on in the brain and
in the body to a higher degree of resolution that's
(29:59):
been able to help us improve further the treatment.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Building on what you've done with Stanford, I understand that
you recently announced the launch of the world's first clinical
eyeboo game program designed to accommodate patients with various neurodegeneral
diseases Parkinson's, multiple curoses, essential tremor, stroke, traumatic brain injury,
and als, which I think is one of the most
(30:25):
devastating and frightening of all diseases. I was like, can
you sort of help us understand this?
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Yes, so we are learning about this medicine and the effects, right,
and everything came alone by seeing people with these type
of diagnosis come into what we call our foundational program
and seeing really remarkable positive effects.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
You know, in terms of multipleus carosies. We have a case.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Study that Jenatan wrote and there's a qualture and learning
a lot about how these benefits was impacting these specific sicknesses.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
For example, with Parkinson we just have a breadth fart
here with us an ambio and he was able to
express how beneficial was for him in terms of the
tremors not.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Just on the physical level, but also the emotional levels.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So just giving you a more outline in terms of
that the program is way way different to what we
call it, to the detox program or the detoxification program
and to the better program. Right, And we're still learning,
like what is happening with the persons, but we think
that we have figured out a way and a specific
protocol for them to reach certain specific therapeutic effects and
(31:39):
also again mitigating all the risks because now talking about
this population, we're addressing different risks, right, We're talking to
more elder people with more cardiac issues, with other type
of situations, visiological situations, and we have figured out a
way how to mitigate those spraces and create a benefit
for them. So some of the benefits as being releasing
(32:00):
the tremors and just in general benefit a lot the
quality of life of these people. Also, what we have
learned is that if we work at early stages of
each of these pathologics, the benefits are better. Right, So
we're still learning from it. We're hoping to create more
research and more data in these patients so we can
(32:22):
start creating more cases.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Studies and publish about this. I'm going to let Jonathan
to share a little bit about that too.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
The program itself came out of this increase of interest
in general in IVY game, and so we'd for years
been working with individual patients, but when this influx of
interests began to pour in, we were able to create
these affinity groups of people with either Parkinson's or m
(32:49):
mass or different conditions who are able to go through
the program together. So we're really rapidly scaling up the
amount of data and clinical experience that we have about
these kind of conditions, and we say that we're creating
a program to accommodate these conditions rather than treat them,
because the facility is designed to receive people who are
(33:12):
in wheelchairs and have mobility issues, and we provide physiotherapy
and other kinds of things, but we don't necessarily know
exactly what to expect in terms of a treatment effect.
So for years what we've been telling people is, look,
if you're at the end of the rope and you're
wanting to try again, we know enough now through the
(33:32):
safety protocols that we've developed, that we can screen and
provide this safely for you. We don't know what the
outcomes will be, but as Jose has been describing, it's
been across the board positive. Some people respond much better
than others. Some people are having really powerful transformative experiences
very suddenly. Others it's more gradual or more subtle the changes.
(33:56):
But in either case, these are changes that we're seeing
in patients where nobody's necessarily expecting to see any benefits,
so it is very promising.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
I have to say, the more I've learned, the more
intrigued I am. And Jonathan and Jose, I want to
thank you for joining me and sharing with us what
patients who receive I begain treatments experience. And I want
our listeners know they can find out more about this
extraordinary historic work that you were doing by visiting the
(34:28):
Ambo Life Sciences website, which is Ambo dot life, that's
Ambio dot Life, and we'll certainly have that on our
show page. But I appreciate the two of you taking
time out of your extraordinary schedule to share with us
with our friends the kind of exciting things you're now doing.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Thank you very much, mister speaker. Has been an honor
to be here and to share a little bit of
our work.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Thank you, Yeah, thank you so much for your time
and for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Thank you to my guests than Dickinson and Jose and Sunsea.
You can learn more about the ambio life sciences on
our show page at newtsworld dot com. Nichworld is produced
by Gingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is
Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for
the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to
(35:20):
the team at Gingish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld,
I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate
us with five stars and give us a review so
others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners
of Nichworld consigner for my three free weekly columns at
ganishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm ne Ginglish. This
is neut World
On this episode of Newts World. I've been doing a
series of podcasts in ibogain as a potentially effective therapy
for treating post traumatic stress disorder, opioid addiction, and depression.
Ibogain is a Level one substance as classified by the
Drug Enforcement Agency the United States, so many of the
treatment facilities are located in other countries, including Mexico and Canada.
(00:28):
After my conversations with both WW Bryan Hubbard from Americans
for Ibogaine and doctor Nolan Williams, who conducted a Stanford
study on ibogain, I was contacted by Ambio Life Sciences,
a company based in Mexico that administers ibogain treatments. They
have a great deal of experience in treating patients who
(00:49):
come to their facility for ibogain therapy, so I wanted
to have them on to talk about the process of
what patients experience. I'm really pleased to welcome my guests,
Jonathan Dickinson, CEO, and Jose and Sunza, chief medical Officer.
They are both co founders of Ambio Life Sciences, a
(01:09):
global leader in integrative I began treatment. Jonathan and Jose,
welcome and thank you for joining me. On news World.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Thank you very much, sir, it's honor to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Thank you so much for the time.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Jonathan, you've been working with Iboga and I Begaine since
two thousand and nine, both clinically and ceremonially. What originally
drew you to this work and how has your understanding
of its potential involved over time.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, so I began working with I began in late
two thousand and nine and had to come down here
to Mexico to begin doing that work. What drew me
originally was that when I was in high school, I
was having a challenging time at one point, and I
went into my general physician who had me fill out
(02:10):
a nine item questionnaire that had Zoloft written on the
top corner of the header, and it determined that I
was depressed and needed a zole off prescription. So for
several years I tried that and other ssrity depressants and
realized that they weren't really helping me much and had
(02:32):
a very very difficult time coming off of them, And
so I actually found other psychedelics early in my life,
several years after that, and after going through difficult withdrawals,
and they really helped me turn a corner and so
I feel like I was real again and I could
(02:52):
connect with life and to feel motivation and passion for
the world. And so that put me on a research
track that landed me in Mexico. So originally when I
came down, most of the treatment centers were focused on
opioid detoxification because ibgain is unique in its ability to
(03:13):
be able to mitigate withdrawal from opiates, and so that
wasn't necessarily my own experience, but it was such a
powerful and compelling use case for a psychedelic that I
dove right in. And it wasn't until four years ago
when we started working with an increasing number of veterans
who are looking for ibgin treatments that we started to
(03:36):
see the kind of story about what ibin was and
its potential and what it could do start to expand
into other arenas that were more similar to my own background.
So we have had the opportunity now working with veterans
to be able to see what it's like for patients
who I guess before we might have looked at a
(03:59):
lot of the health improvements that people hadn't attribute it
to the fact that they were no longer using drugs,
and now when drugs aren't always a factor, we're seeing
all kinds of sort of generalized health improvements or neurological
improvements that maybe are even underlying some of the benefits
for people with addictions. And so at MBO, you know,
(04:20):
in addition to working with Stanford and doctor Williams who
you had on previously and looking at its benefits for
traumatic brain injury and veterans, we've also been able to
see and start to describe some of the treatment effects
for people with other neurodegenerative conditions like Parkinson's and multiple sclerosis,
neuropathic pain, and other kinds of treatments for which there
(04:42):
are no existing pharmacological treatments available.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You're entering this new zone. And Jose, you've been a
paramedic and a firefighter. What brought you into the whole
eyeborgain treatment world?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Okay, Yeah, So in two thousand and nine hour working
here in Tijuana and the fire department, so here in
the border, we are dealing with epidemic since the two thousands, right,
So I was pretty close with dealing with overdoses and
treating these type of people in the streets. So around
November of two thousand and nine, I was invited by
(05:17):
one of my teachers to go and see in front
of a patient going through an IBGAN treatment. I didn't
know back in that time what it was IVI in,
but I did my research and I find out a
lot of really interesting stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Primary the power to reduce the withdrawal.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Symptoms in a matter of twenty four hours with this
type of patient. So since day one I was able
to experience and sit with somebody going through this process.
I was amazed by the power of this substance. I
was able to see somebody going through a really hardcore
addiction of a lot of years, then going through ibying,
(05:59):
and a matter of twelve or twenty four hours, this
person reduced dramastically with all symptoms she was feeling. So
at that moment I kind of realized that it was
really interesting in a really powerful medicine that I didn't
get teached in school. That exists, so for me open
a window to see the possibilities of healing and therapeutic
(06:21):
support with this medicine in terms of trauma and addiction.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Also, this was kind of a fortuitous piece of luck
that you observed that you saw it and you began
to respond to it. That's kind of amazing, is not.
It is now the two of you have both been
working with this in general, what would you say has
the reaction of the patient's been so far?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So generally, I mean, I think what we could say
is that people feel a sense of choice and agency
return where some aspect of that had eroded in their lives.
So it's maybe my attempt to try to find a
(07:09):
common denominator amongst people who have been using drugs and
feel like they don't have the option to stop. Like
when we get into an addictive pattern, it often feels
like by the time that we think about acting out
on an impulse, we're already well into the process of
(07:31):
doing it right. And so I begain in a very
short amount of time puts that back with an arom
of choice where we can have thoughts about a certain
behavior and choose not to act on it. I would
also say that one of the big motivations I think
for veterans coming down and one of the big goals
(07:53):
of the organizations like that's incorporated WOVE and providing grants
for treatments is for folks who are dealing with such
intense psychiatric or neurological symptoms that they're contemplating suicide. And
so I think one of the challenges when people are
facing that kind of impulse is not necessarily that there's
(08:18):
a desire to die, but that they kind of feel
backed into a corner and choice has again, in a
different way, eroded from their life, and that maybe suicide
is kind of this point of finality, like being able
to take back control of the story and have some
sort of control over life again. And so I think again,
(08:40):
when people are able to go through treatments, and whether
it's the psychological process that unfolds or the neurological improvement
that we're seeing or some mixture of both, I think again,
people feel this sense of choice again and this agency
to be able to engage in life and novel is.
(09:01):
And so I think it's difficult because we're getting to
see people from such different sort of walks of life
and different backgrounds. But I would say that's maybe one
of the commonalities, is this increasive agency for life.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
So people common experience and I like to say they
are three bodies right in their mind, the psych but
also in the body, and it tends to heal also
what we call a spirit, right, that's what the sense
of the experience they have when they come true. Seems
like they're all the options to keep going in life
(09:37):
has ended for them and they don't see any exit
to see the light of the beauty in life, and
they come with all these negative emotions or this sensation
where life is just going uphill and they're getting fatigue
to keep going and to keep pushing. So we see
(09:58):
this synergy between working and there are three bodies to
say that it creates a huge impact with what Jonathan
is saying, which is just a matter of having choice
in their life, just a way to see that they
have options and it's not just the way they're acting
in their life, but also see a different perspective and
see the light out of it, you know, like the
cloud that they have over their heads. It goes away
(10:21):
after the journey and they go to some physiological aspects
you know, as in the acute phase of the treatment
and then after So it's a process. It's important to
say this. It's not just a magic pill, a magic
bullet that you just take once and everything ends, or
you're going to cure everything. It doesn't work like that.
It's more profound, and it's important to mention also that
(10:43):
this is not a cure.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
For the diction.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Right, this is a huge tool for dependency, to help
people for dependency and for the physical dependency. Right after that,
there is still some work that we need to do
a matter of changing habits and take advantage of what
we call the critical period in the neuroplasticity may happense
after the treatment.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, right at the absolute cutting edge of science, and
that iboga contains at least thirteen different alkaloids. Does the
two of you work with it? What is your instinct
about what is it that makes this such a uniquely
powerful intervention?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Well, I think we still have a lot to learn
about how I begain works. What we've seen when we're
working with the other alkaloids, which are pretty minor sort
of constituents in the plant material, is that the mixture
is quite a lot stronger than just I begin on
(11:59):
a sound. So we don't really know necessarily if that
is because some of the other alkaloids are much more
potent by weight than ibegain is, or because they have
some kind of synergistic effects, or they change how we
metabolize the ibigain itself. Overall, whether we're working with the
(12:24):
eboga extract or working with purified ibogain, there's a very
consistent type of clinical effect that we get from it.
There's not a huge improvement from using very pure material.
In fact, what we find when the more pure the
(12:45):
ibogain is the almost more that we have to use,
because again it's less strong when there's less constituents in it,
so clinically or at least in the manufacturing process it
at least when we're not trying to satisfy FDA regulators,
there's not a huge return on investments for the increased
(13:08):
cost of reaching that level of purity, and we can
work with sort of a botanical drug to achieve the
same or sometimes even like more interesting subjective effects.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I'm reminded of the old story that you could never
get asper and approved today because we actually don't know
how it works. We've grandfathered in and we can produce
aspirin and billions of people have taken it, but we
literally could never meet the FDA standard. To what deal
is the very complexity of eyebo gain when measured against
(13:44):
what clearly is its impact put in a kind of
similar situation where we could spend so many years trying
to figure out what the underlying mechanisms are and we're
losing people every year while we're engaged in that kind
of research.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, I think it's a really good question that kind
of goes to their regulatory process. I think with aspirin,
one of the reasons why you might have an issue
getting it approved is because there's other things on the
market that have a similar kind of treatment effect. So
unless aspirin is substantially better than anything else that's out
(14:24):
there without understanding the mechanisms, it might be hard to approve.
In a case of I begain, It's very true we
don't understand fully it's mechanisms or how it works. We
have a lot of signals to work with. Ultimately, I
think that the process of studying I begin is going
to help us to better understand neuroscience and pharmacology. It's
(14:49):
going to drive us towards new disease targets and make
us think in a more complex way about how drugs
interact with neurons and others cells in the body. But
the benefit that I again has, even though we don't
necessarily have a fully transparent picture of how it works
is that its treatment effect is unmatched by anything else
(15:13):
that we know of today. So I think if you're
able to show that in a clinical trial and it's
evaluated on those merits, then it stands a chance.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
In a sense, we can show you evidence that works.
We just can't show you an explanation.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah. I think it depends to what degree can we
be certain about how it's achieving the effect, And right now,
I think we're still a ways from being able to
claim a high degree of certainty about that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
As Ambio's co founder, Jonathan, you led the development of
clinical guidelines for eyebogaine assisted detoxification, which remains a standard
in the field. In your experience, directly between the two
of you, to what extent have you able to minimize
the risk of side effects will helping people go through ibogain?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, I think this is a really interesting question, and
it sort of benefits from having a little bit of
background about the history. So when I began was first
tabled in front of the FDA, it was the early
nineteen nineties, and this was the effort of Howard Lotzov,
(16:28):
who discovered that as a young Heroin user living in
Staten Island, New York. When he took ibagain without knowing
what it was for, just experimenting with different compounds, he
found that he had no more withdrawal, no more cravings
or desire to use heroin again. And years later he
(16:49):
kind of took up the mantle and pressed and pressed
until he got to the point where the FDA was
allowing clinical trials and the National Institute on Drug Abuse
were funding some of those studies. Unfortunately, for various reasons,
the studies were discontinued, and after that time there had
(17:12):
been so many people who had been through ibegain treatment
and seen the effects. KAT was out of the bag,
so to speak, and some of the people who had
begun working with it ended up either working underground in
the United States for a period of time because it
was a schedule one substance, or left the country and
ended up in Mexico. And Mexico has been sort of
(17:34):
a fertile ground for the development of the clinical protocols
over time, and so when I came down in two
thousand and nine, there had been a number of fatalities
and other kinds of adverse events that had occurred, and
so I led a process of consultation with providers all
(17:56):
over the world, largely in Mexico where most of the
treatments we are taking place, and we worked with those
clinical providers with their experience as well as medical professionals
and researchers to identify what the primary risks were and
very practical measures it could be taken to reduce them
(18:17):
at this point, and Jose can speak to this more
about how we've developed that practically, but I think we
have a very clear idea about how to screen for
and prevent cardiac risk with IVAN, which is one of
the main issues that normally gets brought up. I think
(18:38):
that there are still risk factors that are in play,
especially when we're looking at trying to take people off
of street drugs and there's unknown quantities because drug interactions
are another of the primary risks. So clinically we do
everything we can to control against the risk of people
(19:00):
of using drugs that we don't know about, or that
perhaps that they don't even know about our president and
substances that they're using. But if we're treating people who
are not coming off of drugs and we're just trying
to reduce the risk of cardiac conditions or other kind
of pre existing medical conditions causing harm. I think we
have a very good, strong understanding of how to mitigate
(19:21):
those risks, and we've demonstrated that clinically over years treating
thousands of individuals.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well hose that let me ask you about that as
people go through this process. In the early days, as
I understand it, there was a real concern about cardiac
problems and that it could lead actually to heart attacks.
To what degree have you all been able to develop
an approach and I as I understand that part of
them may involve combining magnesium with ibergain, But to what
(19:51):
do we now is the risk of a heart attack
a dramatically lower risk than it was when people first
began experimenting.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yeah, So basically a lot of the work that we
have done to mitigate the risks with IVY and the
cardiac situation, it was just to use magnesium.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
But that's just one key of the whole protocol. Right.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Something that we have work a lot is on the
preparation of the patient and is to assess a proper preparation.
So we need to understand the basically eye again is
like going to surgery, right, and the more stable your
physical body is to go into surgery less of the
risk it is for you to go into bad situation.
(20:34):
So this is a controlled treatment. The even that is
a threat of life of death, we need to prepare
the person physically for.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Them to go strongly into the treatment.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
So some of all of the keys that we have
done to prevent or to mitigate cardiogo risks is to
evaluate really deeply the heart of the patients. Also understand
that sometimes medications are contrindicated with IBM, and we need
to stop those medications and we're talking here about SSRIs
until the presence, until the psychotics. So these are medications
(21:08):
that normally are really contrimunicated with ib Again, so it's
not just the magnesium part. It's also like hydration is
also helping the body with the metabolism after the IBM.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Some of the things that makes.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Ib IN really complex and the mechanism of action is
like the effects on the body can be lasting twenty
four hours three six hours, but the benefits of that
it comes after those twenty.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Four hours of tourist six hours.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
So it means that once after the metabolite is out
of your body is when you start feeling like the
positivity effects, right, and that makes it really unique. That's
something that we are not used to in medicine, right,
where we normally are getting this.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Instet gratification, right, like I think the AD.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Bill and it's going to kick in twenty minutes at
an hour, and then it's going to take away my headache, right,
so done. But then with IBIN, it's like longer. Right,
it's going to stay in your body for twenty four
hours thwty six hours. But then after that is when
the positive effects are going to be coming. It is
when the neutroplasticity with all the effects on the cellular
(22:18):
level or the ATP level is going to be happening
as a reward. So thesepects going back into the cardiator
itself is not just the magnetium or the proper electrolytes.
That's how we call it because I mean it does
block the hard channels, but it's mostly how to prepare
the patient emotionally if physically to go into a treatment, right,
(22:39):
and physically we're talking about reduce all the medications that
are for example prolonging the QT segment, also making sure
that the people is well hydrated, has a proper diet,
has a proper digestion, a proper metabolism, and then we
get to a point where we can serve the medicine.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And mitigate those risks, right telic screening.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
And I used to say that it's basically like if
somebody was going to surgery.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
In a number of studies, you have an initial impact,
but then there's a significant number of people who ultimately
relapse back into some kind of addiction. Does that indicate
that for a lot of people this is great to
break the pattern, but then you have to have really
substantial help in order to acquire the habits to not
(23:44):
relapse back into the habit. I mean, how would you
read that?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of things that are
factors when we're talking about addiction, and so one of
them is that there's a pharmacological element. Drugs take hold
of the brain and the nervous system, and that's just
one of the fact that people experience withdrawal and craving,
(24:11):
which get worse. Actually the more that people use, the
more that people try to come off of them, there's
an effect where those same withdrawal symptoms kind of get
worse the more that we go through that cycle, and
so I begain can help dramatically better than anything else
with those kind of physiological aspects of addiction, but there's
(24:33):
also psychological aspects. There's also social factors that contribute to addiction,
and so it's something that we try to prepare people
for when they're going into treatment that the more that
they can prepare to take I begain, considering it sort
of like assistance to ease a big life transition, the
(24:59):
better that they can do on the other end, right,
so the more that they have things set up when
they get home in a support of setting, the better
they're going to do. I don't think we could see
a huge benefit taking people off of the streets and
then putting them back onto the streets, for example, just
a sort of extreme image of that. But if people
(25:20):
are attempting to transition into supportive housing and other kinds
of work programs and then need to undergo chemical detoxification
as part of that process, I begain can be part
of the picture.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I think.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Do you think that ultimately there'll be some kind of
sophisticated connectivity where you go in, you detox, but then
you're almost expected to go through a rebuilding of the
right healthy habits that the two have to be combined
for to have optimal impact.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, that is correct.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
That's basically how this gets present this treatment, right, Like
I said before, it's not a magic bullet, it's not
something that is just going to change your life.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
In a matter of a day. Is basically that.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
So I think it's a great tool to mitigate the
physical withdrawal up to ninety percent, and then also is
really beneficial opening again the critical period with this process
when you can create neuroplasticity, which that means create your
perception of.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Life and create new abits.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Right, So this critical period is really important for the
people to understand that's the moment what they want to change,
really the activity of their lives, so they can just
create a new pattern, right, And that's as big as
important as the ivy and treatment itself. So that's where
Jonathan is mentioning to prepare the patients and the people
(26:51):
right tonight, just expect an easy cure and an easy
step is going to be really helpful to mitigate the
physical withdrawal, which is like the biggest part. But then
alongside that you're going to have to create your new
life and work towards that.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
To build on that a little bit. I think it's
really important that people feel very motivated to make that
change for themselves. Again, like I said, I think one
of the common denominators is that I begain gives us
back a greater sense of agency, and so when people
(27:27):
are already pursuing a change for themselves, they can make
great use of that increase agency and ability, right, And
so I think one of the things that we see
in Mexico is that by the time that people come
down here, they've already tried a lot of other things.
In most cases, they actually have to overcome quite a
(27:50):
few hurdles to get down here. So by the time
that people are coming to us, they've expressed and had
to act upon like a great deal of personal motivation,
and we think that contributes a lot to the success.
So I think it's important that when we look at
ibagain we see it as part of a process and
(28:13):
learn how to maximize this kind of efficacy in that way.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
One of the things that led me to want to
interview you two is that when we did a podcast
with doctor Williams at Stanford, you all somehow connected and
so now you have the imprimature of standard for university,
which is one of the great research out of the world,
and then they are remarkably positive about what you're doing.
(28:40):
How did that come about? I mean, I think that's
very interesting that MBO ends up working with Stanford on
a really national class study.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, I mean that came out of the relationship that
we have with veteran community organizations that are supporting veterans
to take IVY gain. They were really the common link
between us there. But yeah, it was an incredible experience
to be able to have. I think we've had a
really good relationship with different research partners over the years.
(29:14):
Obviously Stanford is one of the more prominent ones because
the study has already been published, but I think with
the real world evidence and clinical experience that we have,
we've been able to even go back to other research
partners as well and help to drive some of the
cellular research and animal research because we're able to sort
(29:37):
of hone in a little bit with them on what
would be interesting to look for. So I think it's
been a very fruitful partnership, and coming back from Stanford,
they've been able to show us because of the kind
of equipment and the experience that they have been able
to show us what's going on in the brain and
in the body to a higher degree of resolution that's
(29:59):
been able to help us improve further the treatment.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Building on what you've done with Stanford, I understand that
you recently announced the launch of the world's first clinical
eyeboo game program designed to accommodate patients with various neurodegeneral
diseases Parkinson's, multiple curoses, essential tremor, stroke, traumatic brain injury,
and als, which I think is one of the most
(30:25):
devastating and frightening of all diseases. I was like, can
you sort of help us understand this?
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Yes, so we are learning about this medicine and the effects, right,
and everything came alone by seeing people with these type
of diagnosis come into what we call our foundational program
and seeing really remarkable positive effects.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
You know, in terms of multipleus carosies. We have a case.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Study that Jenatan wrote and there's a qualture and learning
a lot about how these benefits was impacting these specific sicknesses.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
For example, with Parkinson we just have a breadth fart
here with us an ambio and he was able to
express how beneficial was for him in terms of the
tremors not.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Just on the physical level, but also the emotional levels.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So just giving you a more outline in terms of
that the program is way way different to what we
call it, to the detox program or the detoxification program
and to the better program. Right, And we're still learning,
like what is happening with the persons, but we think
that we have figured out a way and a specific
protocol for them to reach certain specific therapeutic effects and
(31:39):
also again mitigating all the risks because now talking about
this population, we're addressing different risks, right, We're talking to
more elder people with more cardiac issues, with other type
of situations, visiological situations, and we have figured out a
way how to mitigate those spraces and create a benefit
for them. So some of the benefits as being releasing
(32:00):
the tremors and just in general benefit a lot the
quality of life of these people. Also, what we have
learned is that if we work at early stages of
each of these pathologics, the benefits are better. Right, So
we're still learning from it. We're hoping to create more
research and more data in these patients so we can
(32:22):
start creating more cases.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Studies and publish about this. I'm going to let Jonathan
to share a little bit about that too.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
The program itself came out of this increase of interest
in general in IVY game, and so we'd for years
been working with individual patients, but when this influx of
interests began to pour in, we were able to create
these affinity groups of people with either Parkinson's or m
(32:49):
mass or different conditions who are able to go through
the program together. So we're really rapidly scaling up the
amount of data and clinical experience that we have about
these kind of conditions, and we say that we're creating
a program to accommodate these conditions rather than treat them,
because the facility is designed to receive people who are
(33:12):
in wheelchairs and have mobility issues, and we provide physiotherapy
and other kinds of things, but we don't necessarily know
exactly what to expect in terms of a treatment effect.
So for years what we've been telling people is, look,
if you're at the end of the rope and you're
wanting to try again, we know enough now through the
(33:32):
safety protocols that we've developed, that we can screen and
provide this safely for you. We don't know what the
outcomes will be, but as Jose has been describing, it's
been across the board positive. Some people respond much better
than others. Some people are having really powerful transformative experiences
very suddenly. Others it's more gradual or more subtle the changes.
(33:56):
But in either case, these are changes that we're seeing
in patients where nobody's necessarily expecting to see any benefits,
so it is very promising.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
I have to say, the more I've learned, the more
intrigued I am. And Jonathan and Jose, I want to
thank you for joining me and sharing with us what
patients who receive I begain treatments experience. And I want
our listeners know they can find out more about this
extraordinary historic work that you were doing by visiting the
(34:28):
Ambo Life Sciences website, which is Ambo dot life, that's
Ambio dot Life, and we'll certainly have that on our
show page. But I appreciate the two of you taking
time out of your extraordinary schedule to share with us
with our friends the kind of exciting things you're now doing.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Thank you very much, mister speaker. Has been an honor
to be here and to share a little bit of
our work.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Thank you, Yeah, thank you so much for your time
and for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Thank you to my guests than Dickinson and Jose and Sunsea.
You can learn more about the ambio life sciences on
our show page at newtsworld dot com. Nichworld is produced
by Gingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is
Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for
the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to
(35:20):
the team at Gingish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld,
I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate
us with five stars and give us a review so
others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners
of Nichworld consigner for my three free weekly columns at
ganishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm ne Ginglish. This
is neut World
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