August 30, 2025 • 28 mins
Newt talks with Erik Bork, the Emmy award-winning writer and director of the new film "The Elephant in the Room." The film is a romantic comedy that explores the challenges of political polarization through the story of a progressive woman who discovers her seemingly perfect partner voted for President Trump. Bork shares insights into his career, starting with his break from Tom Hanks, and discusses the creative process behind the film, including the challenges of portraying political differences authentically. He also delves into the complexities of independent filmmaking, from fundraising through platforms like Wefunder, to navigating distribution in a crowded media landscape. Bork emphasizes the importance of marketing and word-of-mouth in promoting independent films and highlights the potential for community screenings to foster discussion on political polarization. The film is available on major streaming platforms, and interested groups can host screenings to engage in dialogue about the film's themes. https://elephantintheroomfilm.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
On this episode of News World. In the new film
The Elephant in the Room, a proud progressive woman thinks
she's found the perfect guy until she learns he voted
for President Trump. Can their relationships survive their political differences.
The film stars Alyssa Lampeis as Leah, Sean Kleire is
(00:23):
her love interest, Vincent, and Dominic Burgess Leah's roommate Martin.
The Elephant in the Room is a scripted comedy that
explores the challenges of political polarization in a lighthearted and
human way. Here to discuss his new film, I'm really
pleased to welcome my guest writer, director Eric Bork. He
(00:44):
is an Emmy Award winning writer producer of the HBO
series Band of Brothers. Eric, Welcome, and thank you for
joining me in the News World.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you so much for having me excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
How did you get your start in film and television production?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
You know, Tom Hanks, Really it gave me my start.
The short version is I grew up in Ohio, went
to film school, then moved out to Los Angeles and
got a job working as an assistant in the offices
of various people at one of the studios Fox Studios.
Eventually led to a temp assignment in Tom Hanks's little
production company at the time that turned into a permanent
(01:33):
assistant position during which I was answering the phone and
you know, he was shooting Forrest Gump. I was writing
scripts on the side, and eventually he read some of
my scripts it was kind of a fairy tale story
and offered me a promotion, which led to helping him
write and produce the mini series From the Earth to
the Moon, which was about the Apollo program for HBO,
(01:55):
and then a couple years later, Band of Brothers and
a lot of other projects that didn't get produced that
I worked as a writer for and with him.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
When you did Bandon Brothers, how accurate historically was it?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, I think it's pretty accurate by Hollywood standards. I
mean Tom was interviewed about that in joke that, like,
you know, most Hollywood productions of history are twelve percent accurate,
and if we're seventeen percent accurate will be hailed as heroes.
I think he said something like that. I mean, I
think we did better than that, But you know, we
relied on Steven Ambrose's book and the interviews he had
done with the veterans of Easy Company, as well as
(02:30):
our own interviews with the veterans, many of whom were
still alive at the time. Of course, when you're writing
a scripted television or film, you have to make it
comprehensible to an audience, which sometimes means consolidating characters and events,
and of course you're making up all the dialogue because
you don't know what they said. You know, they don't
remember that's not in the book, so you know you
(02:51):
have the broad strokes of what happened. Then you have
to fill in a lot of blanks in order to
write these scenes and turn them into episodes. So we
had to do that normal thing. But I think we
were trying to be very accurate and faithful to their
stories while doing that, maybe more so than some World
War Two productions have been. But I don't want to
say it's hard to compare.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's quite a break to somebody of the stature of
Tom Hanks in the sense take you under his wing.
What advice do you have for young people in college
or just out of college who dream of working in
film or television.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, I think what I did is a pretty good model.
Like if you want to be a writer. That's one
very specific path. There are other paths, but as a
screenwriter working as an assistant, those jobs can be competitive too.
You know, an office assistant within the industry in Los
Angeles is a kind of tried and true method. Trying
to get on a television show as a writer's assistant
is a really good method as well. But you know,
(03:49):
if you want to be a director, the advice would
be a bit different. Make your own films, make anything
you can. You know, as a writer, you're writing scripts
and you're trying to meet people who will read your
scripts and sort of trying to work in that way.
But it's a world where you don't have to live
in La anymore, but it still helps. So I definitely
do recommend that for people if it's something that they
(04:09):
can feasibly do.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
From Bandon Brothers to The Elephant in the Room is
a really big shift in topics. Your new film, The
Elephant in the Room is described as a red blue
rom con. At the heart of the film, you explore
whether a relationship can work across the political divide. How
did the idea for the story first come to you?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well around twenty sixteen, Like a lot of people. I
started to become more and more aware of political polarization
as what seemed to be a societal problem, and at
the same time, you know, I was looking for ideas
for stories for a project that could write and direct
on a low budget, which I've been sort of wanting
to do that for about five years and had written
(04:52):
a few different scripts. As somewhat interested in romantic comedy,
I know that the key to a romantic comedy is
what's in the way of the relationship. Be something big
in the way that the audience roots for the couple
to solve, but that isn't easily solved, And so around
twenty sixteen, I started thinking, in today's day and age,
political views could be that thing, opposing political views because
(05:13):
of just how extreme it's become. So I just started
playing with an idea for a script in which that
was the issue, while at the same time being interested
in polarization is an issue, and hoping that the resulting movie,
if I was able to raise the money and get
it made, would somehow explore that in a fresh way
that might be disarming for people.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Why did you pick comedy a romantic comedy?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, I'm a comedy person despite band of brothers.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
The funny thing about the scripts Tom Hanks had read
when he offered me my promotion were comedy scripts for
TV shows like Friends and Frasier, which I had written
to show that I could write comedy. They weren't actually
ever produced, but that's what you did as a writer,
is you wrote sample episodes of existing shows. So I
was always trying to write comedy, and Tom offered me
(05:58):
these incredible opportunities on these historical dramas. So I wrote
quite a few of those kinds of projects, but I
always wanted to come back to comedy, and I always
was writing comedy on my own on the side, and
romantic comedy is one type of comedy among others. But
I've always been interested in kind of smart comedies with
heart more than any other type of film. So it
(06:20):
was a natural for me to be looking for ideas
in that realm that this political topic became kind of
the latest idea.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I was very struck with. I think it's called The
Death of Stalin, which is a dark comedy about literally
the day he dies, all of a deal with as humor,
and the guys who did it said it was such
a horrifying topic that they thought comedy was the only
way an audience could stick with it, that otherwise it'd
be so turned off they wouldn't watch the movie.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, I mean, I think there's a lot too that
and political arguments are also something people probably don't want
to tune in to watch on movies and TV. But
when it's done in a heartfelt comedy where you're not
taking it all quite so seriously, you know, it's kind
of like candy to help the medicine go down. I
suppose not that it's medicine, but it's a topic that's,
like you said, not easy to watch and maybe the
(07:10):
kind of thing we want to escape from because we
have it in our personal lives and we don't enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Doesn't it become more complicated when you did it the
way you do, which is to make it a romantic comedy.
Do you have the dual tension? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think that's something screenwriters do, is like we look
for really unsolvable problems to put characters in because that's
where the drama and the comedy can come from. Yeah,
it's hard. The thing about romantic comedy is you generally
want the audience to root for both of the people
and like both of them, which could be hard to
do if one of them is politically opposed to you
as an audience member. So one of my challenges was
(07:44):
to try to create two characters that people on all
sides of the political spectrum would like and even emotionally
bond with and root for and even root for them
to maybe get with the person of opposite views, while
recognizing the two characters as believable versions of people with
those views. So those were the biggest challenges really in
the writing and even in the editing of the movie
(08:06):
to try to like strike that balance.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So in that context, though, given the normal biases of Hollywood,
how do you ensure that both characters' perspectives are represented
with authenticity and respect and keep it balanced and not
sort of inevitably have it slide into sort of an
anti Trump just given the nature of Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, well, I mean not easy. And I came more
from the left for sure, and so it was easier
for me to write the character that was on the left,
which was the main character, the female. Although I had
a close friend who was a Trump supporter in twenty
sixteen that we began discussing, and I began getting his views,
and even if they didn't change my mind on issues,
(08:51):
they helped me write a character that, like him, was complicated,
because the thing about polarization is it tells us that
people on the other side are all one way, and
they're all one extreme thing that we should hate or
fear or feel as evil or stupid, And in real
life it's much more complicated than that. And I'm much
more interested in the nuance in the gray area than
the binary black and white choices. So it was a
(09:13):
combination of knowing someone like that and being naturally curious
as a writer and as a person in terms of
what makes someone with different views on certain issues have
those views, and being curious and open to that. But
also I found some organizations and nonprofits that are focused
on polarization that helped support the film and gave me
notes on the script to help me flesh out the
(09:36):
Trump voting character that was less something I related to
or understood in a way that would hopefully be believable
and dimensional and likable. It's up to the viewer whether
I achieved that or not, but that was the goal.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I'm curious, you know, a Gallup poll in twenty twenty
four found that a record high eighty percent of US
adults believe that Americans are greatly divided on core values.
There was a Pew Research poll a year later that
found that eight in ten say Republicans and Democrats not
only disagree on policies, they can't even agree on basic facts.
(10:27):
Why do you think we have this profound divide right
now in this country?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Well, I'm a writer and a film person and definitely
an amateur on politics. But my personal opinion is that
the incentive structure in politics and in much of the
media today rewards polarization, and that from a political viewpoint
or from a media viewpoint, it's easy to get votes
and clicks and viewers by riling up the emotions of
(10:56):
your side, and you do that by demonizing the other
side and by constantly spewing you could say stories that
are meant to make you fear and low the other
side even more than you already do, which I think
a lot of both political leaders and media outlets are
doing on both sides. And as someone who's always been
(11:20):
more on the left, I've really tried to identify to
what extent am I in a echo chamber myself and
work to not be in one. Even if I think
I agree with these people on this side, how do
I make sure that I'm not just being led by
people that want me to believe all one way, in
a very binary way. So I think it's helpful to
(11:43):
do that, But it's not easy, because it's easier to
be in a tribe of people that you feel like,
these are my people. I agree with them, they're the
right side, they're the moral side, and it's not fun
to cross over and hear the arguments from the other side.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
In some ways, it'd be easier to do a die
tri beat it away. You can do a right wing
AsSalt or a left wing of Salt and a basier.
You really have a remarkable career for somebody who's interested
in this. How does a film project like this go
from conception through production to marketing. It's a very complicated system,
(12:20):
it is.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And when you're operating on an ultra low budget like
we were, and you don't have the backing of a
Netflix or a Disney or a Paramount or some big company,
it starts with fundraising, and there are a lot of
different ways to do that. Some people just go after
high net worth individuals in their network who might want
to put money into a film, which is a pretty
risky investment for me. I used a crowdfunding platform similar
(12:45):
to a kickstarter, only instead of donations, people can become
part of the movie as investors. I used a site
called we funder, which apparently was made possible by a
law pass during the Obama administration, where in investors of
as little as one hundred dollars can become investors in
a startup company or a film. So this website attracts
(13:08):
amateur and professional investors who want to get in on
sometimes a very low level, on various companies. And there
are some films on there that had raised two three
hundred thousand dollars. So I use that site, and it
took a while and it wasn't easy to try to
raise money. And then I also found these nonprofits that
were interested in polarization and thought the film was helpful
(13:31):
for that cause. There have been a lot of documentaries
on the topic, but they felt that documentaries can sometimes
preach to the choir, and they thought a scripted romantic
comedy might touch people in a new way or reach
more people. So I got some funding there from grants
and donations from nonprofits and individuals. So put those two
things together and found enough money to start pre production,
(13:53):
and worked with a union of actors SAG after it
to get a contract with them at a certain budget
level so that I could hire professional actors who are
members of the union, which was definitely necessary in my view.
And then putting together the crew and doing all the
things you do on a low budget film where you're
wearing a lot of different hats and you're trying to
do it at a low budget level in order to
(14:14):
be able to make it for the money that we raised.
In terms of locations and number of crew members and
number of shooting days, it's a movie that could all
be shot in one house with mainly three actors, which
makes it cheaper because it was set during the pandemic.
It was also believable that these people are just hanging
out in this one house and they're not going on
dates and restaurants and bars, which makes it cheaper. And
(14:35):
then eventually finishing the movie looking for distribution. That's a
whole other conversation which we can get into if you'd like,
on what the options are for independent films to reach
the marketplace and reach viewers.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Well, because do you start marketing it before the film
is done, or do you wait until you have something
to show people.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I waited till after. I mean, some people do a
lot of social media marketing all the way through. I
wasn't really that savvy on social media, so I wasn't
building a huge social media following during production and so forth.
I pretty much waited until we had a finished film
and then looked for distribution and found an independent producers
rep that could present the film to various distribution companies,
(15:12):
and I found one that was interested two one for
American rights, one for international rights, and both of them
work and getting the film out there. But for independent
films these days, it's very hard to get a theatrical release,
and it's very hard to get on Netflix or Hulu
or HBO Max because they're not really licensing independent films
(15:33):
that don't have major stars. Our film has working actors
you've probably seen in things, but doesn't have major stars
in it. So most films at this level end up
on the paid to rent, paid to buy platforms like
Amazon and Apple and Google Play, which the film is
now on. It was released this month on those platforms
and then maybe later on the ad supported free services
(15:55):
like two B which it will probably be on after
a while. And then you know, you try to make
deals with foreign distributors in various countries for whatever rights
they want for their territories, which we have a sales
agent off doing that separately and reporting back how many
deals they can find. And that's ongoing as well.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So when you start, and if I understand your correctly,
but in case of this film, you would start on
sort of a rental basis where the film's there in
order to see if people pay some modest amount and
then they have access for two days or three days
or something, or they could buy it, which case they
have it permanently. Can people go to Amazon or where
(16:37):
do they go?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, you can go to Amazon or the Apple store
or iTunes store or the Google Play or YouTube where
they have movies for rent. So it's up on all
those platforms to rent or buy.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And if Sony pays whatever the amount is, does a
part of that go back to Google or Apple and
then a part of it goes to you.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, Google or Apple or Amazon withholds a certain percentage.
I think Amazon withholds fifty percent, which is higher than
the others. But with Amazon you maybe get a boost
in terms of their algorithms and the film being discoverable
by more people, So there's sort of an incentive there
to be on Amazon. But yes, they withhold a portion.
Then some goes to the aggregator service that gets it
(17:20):
on the platforms, some goes to the distributor that worked
with the aggregator, and then some comes back to the
film which then distributes it to investors to help the
investors recoup on their investment.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I've written a fair number of books, and we have
a pretty standard rule of thumb that you have to
spend as much time marketing the book as you spend
writing it. Is that your sense that now it's done, Yeah,
I have a whole day cycle of getting people to watch.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
It, for sure, and that cycle has just begun for us.
And the other thing is, ideally a movie you spend
as much money marketing it as you did making it,
which can be millions and millions of dollars, not in
our case. And one of the challenges with independent films
is often you raise only enough to make the movie
and finish the movie, but not a lot for marketing,
which was certainly what's happened with us as well, where
we had a modest amount in order to hire a
(18:25):
publicis for a short time in order to have a
paid social media team. But if we had lots more money,
we would do probably more ads on Facebook and Instagram
and maybe YouTube paid ads. But as for right now,
we're basically doing organic social media as well as publicity
to get interviews and articles and reviews and stuff. The
(18:45):
big Hollywood movies obviously do billboards and they do TV
commercials and stuff like that too, but on the independent level,
you normally don't have the budget for that, but it
would be great to have that because that's really how
you get a lot of eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Does word of mouth help?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I think word of mouth helps a lot. I mean
if people like the movie and they tell their friends,
and they even write a little review on Amazon or
IMDb after they've watched it, I think with a film
like this that probably can help a lot. Obviously, if
they post on social media and have a lot of followers,
all those things help. I can't tell you I know
exactly the key because it's my first time doing it
(19:19):
and we're still in the very early days. But certainly
I have to think that if people love it and
find it unique and worth watching and tell people about it,
that can make a big difference.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Eric, I understand you have a unique marketing strategy using
a series of screenings. How does that work well.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
One of the ways to get the film out there
is to have people watch it in person, which of
course is always lovely as a filmmaker to see the
film projected in front of an actual audience that gathers
for that purpose, even when you're not in theaters. There
are ways to do it that documentaries often do called
impact screenings or community screenings, where they pitch the film
to college groups or nonprofits who might want to hold
(20:00):
get together events where they host the film, screen it
and then discuss it afterwards. And what we've noticed is
this movie creates a lot of discussion. People are really
eager to talk about it afterwards because the issue of
political polarization is impacting most people's lives, families, et cetera.
And so it leads to a lot of engaged discussions. So,
(20:20):
even though it's not a documentary, some of the people
involved in partnering with me on the film have said
they think it could do well in that environment where
it could be hosted and be a community screening and
discussion afterwards. So we are starting to do that. We
are starting to pitch it to groups and to campuses
and political science professors, you know, centers for the study
(20:41):
of you know, American civic discourse, things like that that
you'll see at universities. We screened at a Jewish community
center in Manhattan a couple of weeks ago. That was great.
So there is a way to host screenings as well.
On the website for the film, you can fill out
a form, so.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
If somebody's interested, then go to Helephant indroomfilm dot com
and there's a place where they can apply to host
of screening A host of screening.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah. When you sit down and think through those whole project,
how many days do you allocate for shooting eighteen? Which
is not many? As I understand that there's a term
making the day, which means you got everything done that
day that you'd scheduled. Have you laid that out before
you start shooting? Do you have each of the eighteen
days laid out?
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Oh, one hundred percent, it's all mapped out and you're
shooting it out of order, which makes it kind of
crazy and difficult too. Like, for instance, our first day
of shooting, you shoot out one set or one location
and then move to another one. Now, we were all
in the same house the whole time, but there were
a bunch of scenes that happened in the entryway of
the house at the front door, and those scenes happen
(21:46):
in various places throughout the film.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Mostly it's like.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
This guy is coming over. He's coming over for some
kind of date or conversation or event. He keeps coming over,
so every time he comes over, they're both in different wardrobe.
It's a different day, they have different emotions. But we're
shooting all of it on the first day of shooting
because we're going to light that area. The lighting is
what takes so much time, so the lighting crew of
the camera crew doesn't want to have to go back
and relight the same area on a different day. So
(22:10):
we do everything that happens in the entryway on day one,
then everything that happened in the kitchen on like day two, three,
and four, and so you're shooting it's so out of order.
The actors have to be really able to put themselves
in the mindset of where's my character at disappoint in
the movie for this scene we're about to do.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I'm just thinking that you're asking them to have totally
different moments. They're not growing to them, they're not building
to them. It's just action now. I guess that's why
it's called acting.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
And that's one of the things that makes professional actors
amazing is that they have the ability to do that,
and they have the ability to be kind of playful
and spontaneous in the moment and make each take also
feel brand new, because that's the other thing is you
shoot many takes and then the same scene from different angles,
and many takes from each angle, it could easily get
stale or repetitive, and a good actor, which I was
blessed to have, they can just be so loose that
(23:00):
each time they do it, it's like they're doing it
for the first time, although they're also integrating directions that
I've given them as well from what I've seen before,
and still making it feel like it's a real moment
that they're having that they've never had before.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
This is what about a year and a half project, more.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Like three to four when you cap first writing and
all the fundraising, which took a year and a half
or two years.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, well, you now totally focused on marketing. Are you
being to think about the next project.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I'm mostly focused on marketing. I always have a script
i'm working on. You know, it's kind of like almost
daily hygiene. As a writer. You have at least an
hour a day on something or even less. So I
try to keep to that. But it's harder when I
am having all the work of trying to get the
movie out there and all the concern and emotion about
the ups and downs from day to day of how's
(23:49):
it doing and are people reviewing it or whatever? So far,
so good, though it's been getting positive reviews and feedback.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Are you inclined to stay with comedy for your next
movie or do you think about a different genre.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I pretty much always write comedy things that have some
kind of comedic aspect. I mean, there's all different kinds
of comedy, so I do kind of I would say, grounded,
character based comedy. Some people might call this movie more
of a dramedy I noticed on Amazon. I mean, I
think it's very funny, but there's some scenes that aren't funny.
But there's kind of comedy lays throughout. I think Amazon
was interesting the things that the descriptions that they put
(24:21):
on it when they posted it's like comedy, but then
it's said heavy and psychological. Well, who wants to watch
a heavy comedy? And what makes a comedy heavy? I
don't think it's heavy at all. I think it's light.
But it's a heavy topic. So I get what they mean,
because sometimes people want to watch a movie that doesn't
have a heavy topic. Comedy with a light topic, right,
But this isn't exactly that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
We have this interestingly complex new world where there are
more and more distribution points and more and more systems
of distribution, from the old time opening in a big
theater through all these very new cable systems to streaming.
Do you think that creates greater opportunity for independent film
(25:00):
or a greater challenge because you're surrounded by all this noise.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I think it's both. I think there's a greater opportunity
and ease to make creative content because anyone can do it.
It's really democratized and lowered the price and the barrier
to entry to produce something. But yes, you have to
break through the noise, and there's more noise than ever
and more outlets. I've heard people say for independent film
and maybe for filmmaking and creative people in general, writers, directors, etc.
(25:29):
It's the easiest time to make something and the hardest
time to sell it, meaning it's harder than ever arguably
to make money back, to make your budget back, to
have your investors recoup whatever. Because right now, people don't
think you should have to pay to watch a movie, right,
And I'm the same way. You know, if it's not
(25:50):
on Netflix or HBO Max or something I've already paid
to subscribe to, why do they want another four dollars?
That's crazy. I'm already paying for movies, right. Even though
we all know that many, if not most, of the
best movies, certainly new releases, aren't on any of those services,
we still tend to just want to watch at home,
meaning we don't go to theater and watch on a
service we already pay for. So people aren't renting and
(26:13):
buying movies as much as they used to, or going
to theaters as much, and so it's harder because you
end up having to find creative other ways for the
film to be a viable business. Proposition.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You're really in an intriguing business and I like that
we do what you really combine all of it. I
mean from the writing to the production, to the directing
to marketing. I mean you're sort of a one person
company in that sense in terms of your range of responsibilities.
Perfectly entrepreneurial sort of thing. I want to thank you
(26:47):
for joining me. Your new film, The Elephant in the
Room is available now on all the streaming platforms including Apple,
Google Play, Amazon, Vimeo, and YouTube, and the easiest way
for our listeners to access it is by going to
Elephant inthroomfilm dot com and clicking on the watch tab
(27:09):
at the top of the page. And I look forward
when your next film is done, have you come back
and share with us again.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I'll look forward Toude as well. Thank you so much
for having me.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Thank you to my guest, Eric Bork. You can learn
more about his film The Elephant in the Room on
our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newts World is
produced by Gingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer
is Guarnsey Slow, our researcher is Rachel Peterson, and our
guest producer is Lily Haley. The artwork for the show
(27:47):
was created by Steve Finley. Special thanks to the team
at Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I
hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us
with five stars and give us a review so others
can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of
newts World can sign up from my three freeweekly columns
(28:08):
at gingrishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I have new Gingrich.
This is Newtsworld.
On this episode of News World. In the new film
The Elephant in the Room, a proud progressive woman thinks
she's found the perfect guy until she learns he voted
for President Trump. Can their relationships survive their political differences.
The film stars Alyssa Lampeis as Leah, Sean Kleire is
(00:23):
her love interest, Vincent, and Dominic Burgess Leah's roommate Martin.
The Elephant in the Room is a scripted comedy that
explores the challenges of political polarization in a lighthearted and
human way. Here to discuss his new film, I'm really
pleased to welcome my guest writer, director Eric Bork. He
(00:44):
is an Emmy Award winning writer producer of the HBO
series Band of Brothers. Eric, Welcome, and thank you for
joining me in the News World.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you so much for having me excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
How did you get your start in film and television production?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
You know, Tom Hanks, Really it gave me my start.
The short version is I grew up in Ohio, went
to film school, then moved out to Los Angeles and
got a job working as an assistant in the offices
of various people at one of the studios Fox Studios.
Eventually led to a temp assignment in Tom Hanks's little
production company at the time that turned into a permanent
(01:33):
assistant position during which I was answering the phone and
you know, he was shooting Forrest Gump. I was writing
scripts on the side, and eventually he read some of
my scripts it was kind of a fairy tale story
and offered me a promotion, which led to helping him
write and produce the mini series From the Earth to
the Moon, which was about the Apollo program for HBO,
(01:55):
and then a couple years later, Band of Brothers and
a lot of other projects that didn't get produced that
I worked as a writer for and with him.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
When you did Bandon Brothers, how accurate historically was it?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, I think it's pretty accurate by Hollywood standards. I
mean Tom was interviewed about that in joke that, like,
you know, most Hollywood productions of history are twelve percent accurate,
and if we're seventeen percent accurate will be hailed as heroes.
I think he said something like that. I mean, I
think we did better than that, But you know, we
relied on Steven Ambrose's book and the interviews he had
done with the veterans of Easy Company, as well as
(02:30):
our own interviews with the veterans, many of whom were
still alive at the time. Of course, when you're writing
a scripted television or film, you have to make it
comprehensible to an audience, which sometimes means consolidating characters and events,
and of course you're making up all the dialogue because
you don't know what they said. You know, they don't
remember that's not in the book, so you know you
(02:51):
have the broad strokes of what happened. Then you have
to fill in a lot of blanks in order to
write these scenes and turn them into episodes. So we
had to do that normal thing. But I think we
were trying to be very accurate and faithful to their
stories while doing that, maybe more so than some World
War Two productions have been. But I don't want to
say it's hard to compare.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's quite a break to somebody of the stature of
Tom Hanks in the sense take you under his wing.
What advice do you have for young people in college
or just out of college who dream of working in
film or television.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, I think what I did is a pretty good model.
Like if you want to be a writer. That's one
very specific path. There are other paths, but as a
screenwriter working as an assistant, those jobs can be competitive too.
You know, an office assistant within the industry in Los
Angeles is a kind of tried and true method. Trying
to get on a television show as a writer's assistant
is a really good method as well. But you know,
(03:49):
if you want to be a director, the advice would
be a bit different. Make your own films, make anything
you can. You know, as a writer, you're writing scripts
and you're trying to meet people who will read your
scripts and sort of trying to work in that way.
But it's a world where you don't have to live
in La anymore, but it still helps. So I definitely
do recommend that for people if it's something that they
(04:09):
can feasibly do.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
From Bandon Brothers to The Elephant in the Room is
a really big shift in topics. Your new film, The
Elephant in the Room is described as a red blue
rom con. At the heart of the film, you explore
whether a relationship can work across the political divide. How
did the idea for the story first come to you?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well around twenty sixteen, Like a lot of people. I
started to become more and more aware of political polarization
as what seemed to be a societal problem, and at
the same time, you know, I was looking for ideas
for stories for a project that could write and direct
on a low budget, which I've been sort of wanting
to do that for about five years and had written
(04:52):
a few different scripts. As somewhat interested in romantic comedy,
I know that the key to a romantic comedy is
what's in the way of the relationship. Be something big
in the way that the audience roots for the couple
to solve, but that isn't easily solved, And so around
twenty sixteen, I started thinking, in today's day and age,
political views could be that thing, opposing political views because
(05:13):
of just how extreme it's become. So I just started
playing with an idea for a script in which that
was the issue, while at the same time being interested
in polarization is an issue, and hoping that the resulting movie,
if I was able to raise the money and get
it made, would somehow explore that in a fresh way
that might be disarming for people.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Why did you pick comedy a romantic comedy?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, I'm a comedy person despite band of brothers.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
The funny thing about the scripts Tom Hanks had read
when he offered me my promotion were comedy scripts for
TV shows like Friends and Frasier, which I had written
to show that I could write comedy. They weren't actually
ever produced, but that's what you did as a writer,
is you wrote sample episodes of existing shows. So I
was always trying to write comedy, and Tom offered me
(05:58):
these incredible opportunities on these historical dramas. So I wrote
quite a few of those kinds of projects, but I
always wanted to come back to comedy, and I always
was writing comedy on my own on the side, and
romantic comedy is one type of comedy among others. But
I've always been interested in kind of smart comedies with
heart more than any other type of film. So it
(06:20):
was a natural for me to be looking for ideas
in that realm that this political topic became kind of
the latest idea.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I was very struck with. I think it's called The
Death of Stalin, which is a dark comedy about literally
the day he dies, all of a deal with as humor,
and the guys who did it said it was such
a horrifying topic that they thought comedy was the only
way an audience could stick with it, that otherwise it'd
be so turned off they wouldn't watch the movie.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, I mean, I think there's a lot too that
and political arguments are also something people probably don't want
to tune in to watch on movies and TV. But
when it's done in a heartfelt comedy where you're not
taking it all quite so seriously, you know, it's kind
of like candy to help the medicine go down. I
suppose not that it's medicine, but it's a topic that's,
like you said, not easy to watch and maybe the
(07:10):
kind of thing we want to escape from because we
have it in our personal lives and we don't enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Doesn't it become more complicated when you did it the
way you do, which is to make it a romantic comedy.
Do you have the dual tension? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think that's something screenwriters do, is like we look
for really unsolvable problems to put characters in because that's
where the drama and the comedy can come from. Yeah,
it's hard. The thing about romantic comedy is you generally
want the audience to root for both of the people
and like both of them, which could be hard to
do if one of them is politically opposed to you
as an audience member. So one of my challenges was
(07:44):
to try to create two characters that people on all
sides of the political spectrum would like and even emotionally
bond with and root for and even root for them
to maybe get with the person of opposite views, while
recognizing the two characters as believable versions of people with
those views. So those were the biggest challenges really in
the writing and even in the editing of the movie
(08:06):
to try to like strike that balance.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So in that context, though, given the normal biases of Hollywood,
how do you ensure that both characters' perspectives are represented
with authenticity and respect and keep it balanced and not
sort of inevitably have it slide into sort of an
anti Trump just given the nature of Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, well, I mean not easy. And I came more
from the left for sure, and so it was easier
for me to write the character that was on the left,
which was the main character, the female. Although I had
a close friend who was a Trump supporter in twenty
sixteen that we began discussing, and I began getting his views,
and even if they didn't change my mind on issues,
(08:51):
they helped me write a character that, like him, was complicated,
because the thing about polarization is it tells us that
people on the other side are all one way, and
they're all one extreme thing that we should hate or
fear or feel as evil or stupid, And in real
life it's much more complicated than that. And I'm much
more interested in the nuance in the gray area than
the binary black and white choices. So it was a
(09:13):
combination of knowing someone like that and being naturally curious
as a writer and as a person in terms of
what makes someone with different views on certain issues have
those views, and being curious and open to that. But
also I found some organizations and nonprofits that are focused
on polarization that helped support the film and gave me
notes on the script to help me flesh out the
(09:36):
Trump voting character that was less something I related to
or understood in a way that would hopefully be believable
and dimensional and likable. It's up to the viewer whether
I achieved that or not, but that was the goal.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I'm curious, you know, a Gallup poll in twenty twenty
four found that a record high eighty percent of US
adults believe that Americans are greatly divided on core values.
There was a Pew Research poll a year later that
found that eight in ten say Republicans and Democrats not
only disagree on policies, they can't even agree on basic facts.
(10:27):
Why do you think we have this profound divide right
now in this country?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Well, I'm a writer and a film person and definitely
an amateur on politics. But my personal opinion is that
the incentive structure in politics and in much of the
media today rewards polarization, and that from a political viewpoint
or from a media viewpoint, it's easy to get votes
and clicks and viewers by riling up the emotions of
(10:56):
your side, and you do that by demonizing the other
side and by constantly spewing you could say stories that
are meant to make you fear and low the other
side even more than you already do, which I think
a lot of both political leaders and media outlets are
doing on both sides. And as someone who's always been
(11:20):
more on the left, I've really tried to identify to
what extent am I in a echo chamber myself and
work to not be in one. Even if I think
I agree with these people on this side, how do
I make sure that I'm not just being led by
people that want me to believe all one way, in
a very binary way. So I think it's helpful to
(11:43):
do that, But it's not easy, because it's easier to
be in a tribe of people that you feel like,
these are my people. I agree with them, they're the
right side, they're the moral side, and it's not fun
to cross over and hear the arguments from the other side.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
In some ways, it'd be easier to do a die
tri beat it away. You can do a right wing
AsSalt or a left wing of Salt and a basier.
You really have a remarkable career for somebody who's interested
in this. How does a film project like this go
from conception through production to marketing. It's a very complicated system,
(12:20):
it is.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And when you're operating on an ultra low budget like
we were, and you don't have the backing of a
Netflix or a Disney or a Paramount or some big company,
it starts with fundraising, and there are a lot of
different ways to do that. Some people just go after
high net worth individuals in their network who might want
to put money into a film, which is a pretty
risky investment for me. I used a crowdfunding platform similar
(12:45):
to a kickstarter, only instead of donations, people can become
part of the movie as investors. I used a site
called we funder, which apparently was made possible by a
law pass during the Obama administration, where in investors of
as little as one hundred dollars can become investors in
a startup company or a film. So this website attracts
(13:08):
amateur and professional investors who want to get in on
sometimes a very low level, on various companies. And there
are some films on there that had raised two three
hundred thousand dollars. So I use that site, and it
took a while and it wasn't easy to try to
raise money. And then I also found these nonprofits that
were interested in polarization and thought the film was helpful
(13:31):
for that cause. There have been a lot of documentaries
on the topic, but they felt that documentaries can sometimes
preach to the choir, and they thought a scripted romantic
comedy might touch people in a new way or reach
more people. So I got some funding there from grants
and donations from nonprofits and individuals. So put those two
things together and found enough money to start pre production,
(13:53):
and worked with a union of actors SAG after it
to get a contract with them at a certain budget
level so that I could hire professional actors who are
members of the union, which was definitely necessary in my view.
And then putting together the crew and doing all the
things you do on a low budget film where you're
wearing a lot of different hats and you're trying to
do it at a low budget level in order to
(14:14):
be able to make it for the money that we raised.
In terms of locations and number of crew members and
number of shooting days, it's a movie that could all
be shot in one house with mainly three actors, which
makes it cheaper because it was set during the pandemic.
It was also believable that these people are just hanging
out in this one house and they're not going on
dates and restaurants and bars, which makes it cheaper. And
(14:35):
then eventually finishing the movie looking for distribution. That's a
whole other conversation which we can get into if you'd like,
on what the options are for independent films to reach
the marketplace and reach viewers.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Well, because do you start marketing it before the film
is done, or do you wait until you have something
to show people.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I waited till after. I mean, some people do a
lot of social media marketing all the way through. I
wasn't really that savvy on social media, so I wasn't
building a huge social media following during production and so forth.
I pretty much waited until we had a finished film
and then looked for distribution and found an independent producers
rep that could present the film to various distribution companies,
(15:12):
and I found one that was interested two one for
American rights, one for international rights, and both of them
work and getting the film out there. But for independent
films these days, it's very hard to get a theatrical release,
and it's very hard to get on Netflix or Hulu
or HBO Max because they're not really licensing independent films
(15:33):
that don't have major stars. Our film has working actors
you've probably seen in things, but doesn't have major stars
in it. So most films at this level end up
on the paid to rent, paid to buy platforms like
Amazon and Apple and Google Play, which the film is
now on. It was released this month on those platforms
and then maybe later on the ad supported free services
(15:55):
like two B which it will probably be on after
a while. And then you know, you try to make
deals with foreign distributors in various countries for whatever rights
they want for their territories, which we have a sales
agent off doing that separately and reporting back how many
deals they can find. And that's ongoing as well.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So when you start, and if I understand your correctly,
but in case of this film, you would start on
sort of a rental basis where the film's there in
order to see if people pay some modest amount and
then they have access for two days or three days
or something, or they could buy it, which case they
have it permanently. Can people go to Amazon or where
(16:37):
do they go?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, you can go to Amazon or the Apple store
or iTunes store or the Google Play or YouTube where
they have movies for rent. So it's up on all
those platforms to rent or buy.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And if Sony pays whatever the amount is, does a
part of that go back to Google or Apple and
then a part of it goes to you.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, Google or Apple or Amazon withholds a certain percentage.
I think Amazon withholds fifty percent, which is higher than
the others. But with Amazon you maybe get a boost
in terms of their algorithms and the film being discoverable
by more people, So there's sort of an incentive there
to be on Amazon. But yes, they withhold a portion.
Then some goes to the aggregator service that gets it
(17:20):
on the platforms, some goes to the distributor that worked
with the aggregator, and then some comes back to the
film which then distributes it to investors to help the
investors recoup on their investment.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I've written a fair number of books, and we have
a pretty standard rule of thumb that you have to
spend as much time marketing the book as you spend
writing it. Is that your sense that now it's done, Yeah,
I have a whole day cycle of getting people to watch.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
It, for sure, and that cycle has just begun for us.
And the other thing is, ideally a movie you spend
as much money marketing it as you did making it,
which can be millions and millions of dollars, not in
our case. And one of the challenges with independent films
is often you raise only enough to make the movie
and finish the movie, but not a lot for marketing,
which was certainly what's happened with us as well, where
we had a modest amount in order to hire a
(18:25):
publicis for a short time in order to have a
paid social media team. But if we had lots more money,
we would do probably more ads on Facebook and Instagram
and maybe YouTube paid ads. But as for right now,
we're basically doing organic social media as well as publicity
to get interviews and articles and reviews and stuff. The
(18:45):
big Hollywood movies obviously do billboards and they do TV
commercials and stuff like that too, but on the independent level,
you normally don't have the budget for that, but it
would be great to have that because that's really how
you get a lot of eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Does word of mouth help?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I think word of mouth helps a lot. I mean
if people like the movie and they tell their friends,
and they even write a little review on Amazon or
IMDb after they've watched it, I think with a film
like this that probably can help a lot. Obviously, if
they post on social media and have a lot of followers,
all those things help. I can't tell you I know
exactly the key because it's my first time doing it
(19:19):
and we're still in the very early days. But certainly
I have to think that if people love it and
find it unique and worth watching and tell people about it,
that can make a big difference.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Eric, I understand you have a unique marketing strategy using
a series of screenings. How does that work well.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
One of the ways to get the film out there
is to have people watch it in person, which of
course is always lovely as a filmmaker to see the
film projected in front of an actual audience that gathers
for that purpose, even when you're not in theaters. There
are ways to do it that documentaries often do called
impact screenings or community screenings, where they pitch the film
to college groups or nonprofits who might want to hold
(20:00):
get together events where they host the film, screen it
and then discuss it afterwards. And what we've noticed is
this movie creates a lot of discussion. People are really
eager to talk about it afterwards because the issue of
political polarization is impacting most people's lives, families, et cetera.
And so it leads to a lot of engaged discussions. So,
(20:20):
even though it's not a documentary, some of the people
involved in partnering with me on the film have said
they think it could do well in that environment where
it could be hosted and be a community screening and
discussion afterwards. So we are starting to do that. We
are starting to pitch it to groups and to campuses
and political science professors, you know, centers for the study
(20:41):
of you know, American civic discourse, things like that that
you'll see at universities. We screened at a Jewish community
center in Manhattan a couple of weeks ago. That was great.
So there is a way to host screenings as well.
On the website for the film, you can fill out
a form, so.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
If somebody's interested, then go to Helephant indroomfilm dot com
and there's a place where they can apply to host
of screening A host of screening.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah. When you sit down and think through those whole project,
how many days do you allocate for shooting eighteen? Which
is not many? As I understand that there's a term
making the day, which means you got everything done that
day that you'd scheduled. Have you laid that out before
you start shooting? Do you have each of the eighteen
days laid out?
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Oh, one hundred percent, it's all mapped out and you're
shooting it out of order, which makes it kind of
crazy and difficult too. Like, for instance, our first day
of shooting, you shoot out one set or one location
and then move to another one. Now, we were all
in the same house the whole time, but there were
a bunch of scenes that happened in the entryway of
the house at the front door, and those scenes happen
(21:46):
in various places throughout the film.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Mostly it's like.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
This guy is coming over. He's coming over for some
kind of date or conversation or event. He keeps coming over,
so every time he comes over, they're both in different wardrobe.
It's a different day, they have different emotions. But we're
shooting all of it on the first day of shooting
because we're going to light that area. The lighting is
what takes so much time, so the lighting crew of
the camera crew doesn't want to have to go back
and relight the same area on a different day. So
(22:10):
we do everything that happens in the entryway on day one,
then everything that happened in the kitchen on like day two, three,
and four, and so you're shooting it's so out of order.
The actors have to be really able to put themselves
in the mindset of where's my character at disappoint in
the movie for this scene we're about to do.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I'm just thinking that you're asking them to have totally
different moments. They're not growing to them, they're not building
to them. It's just action now. I guess that's why
it's called acting.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
And that's one of the things that makes professional actors
amazing is that they have the ability to do that,
and they have the ability to be kind of playful
and spontaneous in the moment and make each take also
feel brand new, because that's the other thing is you
shoot many takes and then the same scene from different angles,
and many takes from each angle, it could easily get
stale or repetitive, and a good actor, which I was
blessed to have, they can just be so loose that
(23:00):
each time they do it, it's like they're doing it
for the first time, although they're also integrating directions that
I've given them as well from what I've seen before,
and still making it feel like it's a real moment
that they're having that they've never had before.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
This is what about a year and a half project, more.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Like three to four when you cap first writing and
all the fundraising, which took a year and a half
or two years.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, well, you now totally focused on marketing. Are you
being to think about the next project.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I'm mostly focused on marketing. I always have a script
i'm working on. You know, it's kind of like almost
daily hygiene. As a writer. You have at least an
hour a day on something or even less. So I
try to keep to that. But it's harder when I
am having all the work of trying to get the
movie out there and all the concern and emotion about
the ups and downs from day to day of how's
(23:49):
it doing and are people reviewing it or whatever? So far,
so good, though it's been getting positive reviews and feedback.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Are you inclined to stay with comedy for your next
movie or do you think about a different genre.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I pretty much always write comedy things that have some
kind of comedic aspect. I mean, there's all different kinds
of comedy, so I do kind of I would say, grounded,
character based comedy. Some people might call this movie more
of a dramedy I noticed on Amazon. I mean, I
think it's very funny, but there's some scenes that aren't funny.
But there's kind of comedy lays throughout. I think Amazon
was interesting the things that the descriptions that they put
(24:21):
on it when they posted it's like comedy, but then
it's said heavy and psychological. Well, who wants to watch
a heavy comedy? And what makes a comedy heavy? I
don't think it's heavy at all. I think it's light.
But it's a heavy topic. So I get what they mean,
because sometimes people want to watch a movie that doesn't
have a heavy topic. Comedy with a light topic, right,
But this isn't exactly that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
We have this interestingly complex new world where there are
more and more distribution points and more and more systems
of distribution, from the old time opening in a big
theater through all these very new cable systems to streaming.
Do you think that creates greater opportunity for independent film
(25:00):
or a greater challenge because you're surrounded by all this noise.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I think it's both. I think there's a greater opportunity
and ease to make creative content because anyone can do it.
It's really democratized and lowered the price and the barrier
to entry to produce something. But yes, you have to
break through the noise, and there's more noise than ever
and more outlets. I've heard people say for independent film
and maybe for filmmaking and creative people in general, writers, directors, etc.
(25:29):
It's the easiest time to make something and the hardest
time to sell it, meaning it's harder than ever arguably
to make money back, to make your budget back, to
have your investors recoup whatever. Because right now, people don't
think you should have to pay to watch a movie, right,
And I'm the same way. You know, if it's not
(25:50):
on Netflix or HBO Max or something I've already paid
to subscribe to, why do they want another four dollars?
That's crazy. I'm already paying for movies, right. Even though
we all know that many, if not most, of the
best movies, certainly new releases, aren't on any of those services,
we still tend to just want to watch at home,
meaning we don't go to theater and watch on a
service we already pay for. So people aren't renting and
(26:13):
buying movies as much as they used to, or going
to theaters as much, and so it's harder because you
end up having to find creative other ways for the
film to be a viable business. Proposition.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You're really in an intriguing business and I like that
we do what you really combine all of it. I
mean from the writing to the production, to the directing
to marketing. I mean you're sort of a one person
company in that sense in terms of your range of responsibilities.
Perfectly entrepreneurial sort of thing. I want to thank you
(26:47):
for joining me. Your new film, The Elephant in the
Room is available now on all the streaming platforms including Apple,
Google Play, Amazon, Vimeo, and YouTube, and the easiest way
for our listeners to access it is by going to
Elephant inthroomfilm dot com and clicking on the watch tab
(27:09):
at the top of the page. And I look forward
when your next film is done, have you come back
and share with us again.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I'll look forward Toude as well. Thank you so much
for having me.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Thank you to my guest, Eric Bork. You can learn
more about his film The Elephant in the Room on
our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newts World is
produced by Gingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer
is Guarnsey Slow, our researcher is Rachel Peterson, and our
guest producer is Lily Haley. The artwork for the show
(27:47):
was created by Steve Finley. Special thanks to the team
at Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I
hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us
with five stars and give us a review so others
can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of
newts World can sign up from my three freeweekly columns
(28:08):
at gingrishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I have new Gingrich.
This is Newtsworld.
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