October 29, 2025 • 32 mins
Newt discusses the life and contributions of John Jay, a pivotal figure in American history. Born in 1745 in New York City, Jay's early life was shaped by his family's quest for religious freedom and his education at King's College. Initially advocating for reconciliation with Britain, Jay's political journey saw him evolve into a staunch supporter of American independence. As a member of the Continental Congress, he contributed to the Olive Branch Petition and played a significant role in drafting the New York State Constitution. Jay's diplomatic efforts included serving as an ambassador to Spain and negotiating the controversial Jay's Treaty with Britain. His legal acumen was evident during his tenure as the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, notably in the Chisholm v. Georgia case. Jay's political career also included serving as the Governor of New York, where he enacted the gradual abolition of slavery. Despite facing challenges and controversies, Jay's legacy as a founding father is marked by his dedication to establishing a robust and balanced government, as reflected in his contributions to the Federalist Papers and his advocacy for the separation of powers. His life exemplifies the complexities and commitments of the early American statesmen in shaping the nation.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
In this episode of the News World. The lives of
these men are essential to understand the American form of
government and our ideals of liberty. The founding fathers all
played key roles in securing American independence from Great Britain
and in the creation of the government of the United
States of America. Now the life of John Jay. Jay
(00:33):
was born in New York City on December twelfth, seventeen
forty five. His grandfather, Augustus Jay, was a French Huguenot
who came to America in the sixteen eighties seeking religious freedom.
His father, Peter j was a merchant who retired to
a farm and rune in New York shortly after John
was born. In his early years, he was educated by
private tutors and then entered King's College in the summer
(00:57):
of seventeen sixty. King's College became Priston much years later.
After graduating in seventeen sixty four, Jay became a law
clerk in the office of Benjamin Cassim. After his admission
to the bar in seventeen sixty eight, Jay established a
legal practice with Robert R. Livingston Junior, and in seventeen
seventy one he opened his own law firm. In April
(01:20):
of seventeen seventy four, Jay married Sarah Livingston, the daughter
of New Jersey Governor William Livingston, and in May of
seventeen seventy four Jay undered New York politics and he
never returned to his law practice. Jay initially wanted reconciliation
with Britain. He advocated for a peaceful resolution. Jay, as
(01:42):
a member the First Condinal Congress, wrote an address to
the people of Great Britain on October twenty first, seventeen
seventy four, outlining the grievances that the colonies said, but
also hoping for a peaceful resolution. It's important remember that
as the pattern of builds towards revolution, that in fact
there a lot of people wrestling with themselves. Do we
(02:04):
really have to do this? And Jay was one of
those people. He wrote quote in almost every age in
repeated conflicts, in long and bloody wars as well civil
as foreign, against many and powerful nations, against the open
assaults of enemies, and the more dangerous treachery of friends.
Have the inhabitants of your island, your great and glorious ancestors,
(02:28):
maintained their independence and transmitted the rights of men and
the blessings of liberty to you their posterity, be not surprised. Therefore,
the we who are descended from the same common ancestors,
the we whose forefathers participated in all the rights, the liberties,
and the constitution you so justly boast of, and who
(02:49):
have carefully conveyed the same fair inheritance to us, guaranteed
by the plighted faith of government and the most solemn
compacts with the British sovereigns, should refuse to surrender them
to men who found their claims are no principles of reason,
and who prosecute them with a design that, by having
their lives and property in their power, they may with
(03:10):
the greater facility and slave you. Because of America is
now the object of universal attention, it has at length
become very serious. This unhappy country is not even oppressed,
but abused and misrepresented. And the duty we owe to
ourselves and posterity, to your interest and the general welfare
of the British Empire, leads to address you on this
(03:32):
very important subject. Know then that we consider ourselves and
do insist that we are and ought to be as
free as our fellow subjects in Britain, and that no
power on earth has a right to take our property
from us without our consent. That we claim all the
benefits secured to the subject by the English Constitution, and
(03:53):
particularly that inestimal woman of trial by jury, That we
hold it essential to English liberty that no man be
can on heard or punished for supposed offenses without having
an opportunity of making his defense. That we think the
Legislature Great Britain is not authorized by the Constitution to
establish a religion fraught with sandveinary in impious tenets, or
(04:16):
to erect an arbitrary form of government in any quarter
of the globe. These rights we, as well as you,
deem sacred, and yet sacred as they are, they have
with many others, then repeatedly and flagrantly violated. Jay contributed
to the early draft of the Olive Branch Petition, which
the Second Continental Congress wrote to King George the Third
(04:38):
in seventeen seventy four as a last attempt to reconcile
with Britain before going to war. Note just the term
Olive Branch petition. These are cornials who really want to
remain British. They really want to avoid war. They really
want to have the king respond so they can be
loyal to the king. Furthermore, Jay was one of the
(05:01):
lead authors of the New York State Constitution, which replaced
the colonial Royal Charter. Notice. Step by step, reluctantly, he
moves from offering total support to Britain, signing an olive
branch petition, and now writing notice not New York colony
(05:22):
New York State Constitution. Shortly after the ratification of the
New York State Constitution, on May seventeen, seventy seven, the
New York Provincial Congress elected Jay to the Chief Justice
of the New York Supreme Court of Judicature, where he
served for two years. During his time as Chief Justice,
New York was still under English rule. Jay wrote to
(05:44):
Governor Morris of his time as Chief Justice, quote, I
am now engaged in the most disagreeable part of my duty,
trying criminals. They multiply exceedingly, robberies become frequent, the woods
afore them shelter, and the tori's food punishment master course
becomes certain and mercy dorned. A harsh system, repugnant to
(06:05):
my feelings, but nevertheless necessary. So Jay's torn because on
the one hand, he really wants to be a nice guy.
He's really tried all the way through to appease Great Britain,
to appease the King. But the reality was they're now
in a real war, and that they are in a
(06:25):
period where there's more and more dissolution of society, there
are more and more criminals, and that many of those
criminals found themselves sheltered by the Tories, who of course
were pro king, and he saw some of the criminals
as being their allies against the rebels who are pro American.
And so Jay finds himself on the one hand, he
(06:46):
doesn't really want to put these people in jail, but
on the other hand, if he doesn't, the whole system's
going to fall apart. He's very conflicted because one form
of justice requires punishing them. But at the same time,
their very existence is an illustration of the conflict that
the virtual civil war that is now broken loose. And
(07:07):
remember that about twenty percent of Americans remained loyal to
the King, who wasn't unanimity. The best estimate I think
he is about forty percent were in fact committed to
the revolution. At least twenty percent were committed to the
King in about another forty percent, frankly just wanted to
go about their life and stay out of it. So
(07:28):
it wasn't any kind of unanimous automatic hiphip Paray and
Jay is trying to balance justice what he really believes in,
with necessity, which he accepts to be true. Now he's
taken out of the court and from seventeen seventy nine
to seventeen eighty two he serves as the ambassador to Spain.
Remember by this stage he's the ambassador for the United States,
(07:52):
and so he has broken decisively with England. He was
sent to Spain to convince the Spanish government to recognize
America as a separate nation, without any success. Spain did
not want to risk any kind of relationship until it
became evident that Britain and the United States were going
to sign a treaty and recognize US independence. Spain was
very vulnerable the blockade by the British Navy, and they
(08:15):
didn't want to get into a fight directly with England
if they could avoid it. Jay is continuing to think
about America evenis in Spain and ony tenth they seventeen
eighty five, he wrote to John Lowell and his vision
for a group of the United States. Quote, it is
my first wish to see the United States assume and
merit the character of one great nation whose territories divided
(08:39):
into different states merely for more convenient government and more
easy and prompt administration of justice, just as our several
states are divided into counties and townships for the like purpose.
Now Jay realized that we had this balance. We couldn't
stay thirteen separate small states without having the French, the British,
(09:04):
the Spanish, and others trying to manipulate this. On the
other hand, there's a real challenge. If you build a
government strong enough to stop foreigners from exploiting you, does
it become so strong that the government itself exploits you?
And Jay realized, based upon the Spirit of the Laws,
a book written by Monuscue, a French theoretician about forty
(09:27):
years earlier, that the best way to preserve freedom was
to have three different and separate branches of government. On
August eighteen, seventeen eighty six, he wrote Thomas Jefferson, quote,
I have long sought and become daily more convinced that
the construction of our federal government is fundamentally wrong to us.
The legislative of judicial and executive powers in one and
(09:49):
the same body of men, And that too, in a
body daily changing its members can never be wise. In
my opinion, these three great departments of sovereignty should be
forever set and so distributed as to service checks on
each other. Now, that was clearly Montusque's model, and it's
one which the Founding Fathers gradually all come to agree
(10:11):
is the right one. On January seventh, seventeen eighty seven,
Jay wrote to George Washington, quote, let Congress legislate, let
others execute, let others judge. In other words, clear division
of power between the three branches, something which remember we're
still fighting over. I mean, you have judges telling the
chief executive what he can and can't do. You have
(10:33):
Congress and several fights with the executive branch and the judges.
And that is by design. The Founding Fathers wanted a
government strong enough to protect us from foreigners, and a
government that was weak enough that it could not, in
fact enslave us. And that's the model we're still wrestling with.
(11:06):
So on January twenty seventh, seventeen eighty six, Well, the
government was still one of the articles of Confederation, which
had clearly failed. Jay wrote to Washington, warning him that
the population quote will be led by the insecurity of property,
the losing of confidence and their rulers, and the want
of public faith and rectitude to consider the charms of liberty,
imaginary and de lusique. In other words, if they can't
(11:28):
get government to work, if they can't make life better,
if they can't find a way to solve problems of
inflation and other things, people is going to give up
on self government. On August fifteenth, seventeen eighty six, Washington
responded to writing quote year sentiments, that our affairs are
drawing rapidly to a crisis accord with my own. Now,
(11:49):
these are the guys who just won the Revolutionary War.
In Washington's case, he'd spent eight years in the field,
only going back home command Vernon one time in eight years.
And they were looking at the great achievement of getting
free from Britain, gradually disintegrating because they don't have a
common government and a common set of rules. Continental Congress
(12:10):
wasn't capable of running things. And so they met in
Philadelphia and what was really a coup d etad. They
were supposed to go and fix the articles of Confederation.
Instead they just dumped them and they wrote the Constitution
of the United States. Now, the Constitution, in order to
become real, had to go out and be ratified by
the people, and in order to convince the people, articles
(12:33):
had to be written. The most famous collection, I think
the most famous and powerful pamphlets in political history are
the Federalist papers. They're eighty five of them. They are remarkable,
and for anybody who truly wants to understand American government,
there is no better starting point. Jay wrote five of them,
numbers two, three, four, five, and sixty four. His first paper,
(12:56):
Federals Number one, stressed the importance of government. Jay wrote, quote,
nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government,
and it is equally undeniable that whenever and however it
is instituted, the people must cede to it some of
their natural rights in order to vest it with requisite powers.
In his fourth paper, Jay wrote the need to be united,
(13:18):
writing leave America divided into thirteen, or if you please,
into three or four independent governments? What armies could they
raise and pay? What fleets could they ever hope to have?
If one was attacked, with the others fly to its
sucker and spend their blood and money in its defense,
would there be no danger of their being flattered into
neutrality by specious promises or seduced by a too great
(13:40):
fondness for peace. He's truly trying to lay it out
the way it really is, in a way that's remarkable. Now,
despite all this work by Jay, there was a very absurd,
false rumor about Jay's opposition to the Constitution. And this
is important because the Constitution is going to be adopted
both in popular votes and in legislative votes all across
(14:01):
the country. The rumor first surfaced on November twenty fourth,
seventeen eighty seven, when the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer reported that
a non name source, and we're certainly familiar with this model,
an unnamed source said, quote his excellency John Jay, a
gentleman of the first rate abilities, joined to a good heart,
who at first was carried away with the new plan
(14:22):
of government, is now very decidedly against it and says
it is as deep and wicked a conspiracy as has
ever been invented in the darkest ages against the liberties
of a free people. In New York. It goes by
the name of the Gilded Trap, and very properly, for
when we find men of the first abilities and best
intentions at first taken with it, how very artfully they
(14:42):
must have been drawn up and glossed over. And who, then,
wonder at the General Washington or anybody else, could have
signed it. In convention, the Governor of New York is
very active against it, and will not call the Assembly, who,
in that case will not meet this some months. In
the meantime, the people there will have time to think
for themselves on this important subject. This is clearly a
(15:03):
report designed to weaken the support for the Constitution. It
was quickly reprinted in papers all across the colonies. In response,
Washington wrote, quote, it is very unlikely, therefore, that a
man of his knowledge and foresight should turn on both
sides of a question in so short a space. I
am anxious, however, to know the foundation of any of this. Mattison,
(15:26):
in response that said, the support quote is an arrant forgery,
and one Washington that quote, tricks of this sort are
not unknown with the enemies of the Constitution. And I
think we today have no idea how intense, how passionate
and how real the fight was over whether or not
to adopt the Constitution. Once Jay heard of this, he
wrote to John Vaughan on December first, seventeen eighty seven,
(15:49):
which was printed in the Pennsylvania Packet on December seventh, quote,
Dear Sir, I thank you for your obliging letter the
twenty fourth, aught on and closing a paragraph respecting me
and misster Oswell's paper of the same date, You have
my authority to deny the change of sentiments that imputes
to me, and to declare that, in my opinion, it
is advisable for the people of America to adopt the
(16:10):
constitution proposed by the Way Convention. If you should think
it expedient to publish this letter, I have no objections
to its being done there He responded, and in seventeen
eighty eight he wrote a pamphlet called and addressed to
the people of the State of New York, on the
subject of the Constitution agreed upon that Philadelphia, which Hamilton
(16:30):
cited in Federal's Number eighty five. Ben Franklin suggested that
Jay put his name on the pamphlet, as would add
weight to the document, but Jay did not take this
suggestion that the address appeared as an anonymous pamphlet. However,
in a June nineteenth, seventy eighty eight letter, his wife
Sarah Livingston wrote the Jay's well known style, gave it away,
(16:51):
and in June eighth, seventeen eighty eight, Washington's Madison a
copywriting quote. It is written with much good sense and moderation.
I conjecture, but upon no certain ground, that mister Jay
is the author of it. He sent it to be
some time ago, since which I have received two or
three more copies. The address summarized his arguments for the Constitution,
the need for different branches of government, and dangers of
(17:13):
government vested solely in one man or one body of
men quote like men to whom the experience of other
ages and countries have taught wisdom. Then only determined that
it should be erected by and depend on the people.
Remembering the many instances in which governments vested solely in
one man or one body of men had degenerated into tyrannies,
(17:33):
they judged it most prudent that the three great branches
of power should be committed to different hands, and therefore
that the executives should be separated from the legislative and
the judicial from both. Thus far the property of their
work is easily seen and understood, and therefore is thus
far almost universally approved. For no one man or thing
under the sun has ever yet pleased everybody. The next
(17:56):
question was what particular power should be given to these
three branches. Here the different views in interest to the
different states, as well as the different abstract opinions that
AIR members in such points, interposed many difficulties. On Sunday,
April thirteenth, seventeen eighty eight, a day after Jay's address
was supposed to be published, as a prank, a medical
(18:17):
student waved a dismembered limit of some boys below a
window of the New York Hospital. This led to the
discovery of dismembered corpses inside the building, pointing to grave robbing.
A riot ensued, forcing physicians and students from the hospital
to take refuge in the city jail. Hamilton, Governor George Clinton,
Mayor James Dwayne, and a small group of militia tried
(18:39):
to stop the rioters from attacking the jail, but were unsuccessful.
By that afternoon, the jail was still under siege, and
John Jay and Matthew Clark's and armed with swords, marched
towards the jail with fifty militiamen. Jay was struck in
the head with a stone and seriously injured, and according
to a letter from Jay's wife to his mother, Jay
was carried home for emergency medical attention. However, he recovered.
(19:19):
January thirty first, seventeen eighty eight, New York State Senator
Egbert Benson proposed the state legislature that the delegates to
the ratifying convention be chosen in the same number as
the state Assemblyman by all the free male citizens of
the age of twenty one years and upwards, and they
meet him Poughkeepsie the third Thursday of June. Despite initial
(19:40):
pushback from Governor George Clinton, both houses passed the resolution
setting elections for delegates for the end of April. Almost immediately,
Jay's name started a pearing in the list of potential candidates.
On February sixteenth, seventeen eighty eight, someone named Quote, a Federalist,
included Jay on his list of candidates. On February twentieth,
he was again proposed, with the writer saying of Jay,
(20:02):
quote from his long services abroad and at home, in
the nature of his present office as Minister of Foreign Affairs,
he must be supposed to possess the best information of
any of the United States on our relative situation with
foreign nations. A few weeks later, Quote an Independent elector
and Quote a Citizen included Jay on their proposed list
of candidates. On April nine, seventeen eighty eight, Thomas Randall,
(20:25):
a prominent New York merchant, put j in a more
formal federal ticket for New York City and County on
behalf of a number of your fellow citizens. Jay's name
was included on a nine man slate adopted a meeting
of a large number of respectable mechanics and tradesmen, which
assembled at Van Waters Tavern. Jan in March twenty fourth,
seventeen eighty eight. Letter to William Bingham said that the
(20:47):
election would be the most contested of any we have
had since the Revolution. That didn't prove to be correct.
The anti Federalists did not enter a slate, though some
votes were cast for their candidates. Two thousand, eight hundred
and thirty six ballots were cast, the largest number that
had been courted in the New York City election at
the time. Jay one with two thousand, seven hundred and
(21:09):
thirty five now has an example of respect and popularity.
Let me repeat that number. Out of two thousand, eight
hundred and thirty six votes, he got two thousand, seven
hundred and thirty five. That's an amazing number. Somebody has
run for office after day. I wish once in my
life I could have had that murder. For days after
the convention began, Jay wrote to his wife, quote, the
(21:29):
proceedings and debates have been tempered and inoffensive to either party,
though the opposition to the proposed constitution appears formidable, more
so from numbers and other considerations. Jay's appearance on the
floor of the convention caught the eye of many. The
correspondent for the New Or Daily Advertiser wrote on June
twenty first, seventy eight, quote, after the Chancellor had concluded,
(21:50):
mister j. Rose commanding pleasure and satisfaction, and no doubt
he spoke convincingly on the points raised. Is the most
peculiar knack of expressing himself I ever heard fancy passion,
in short, everything that makes in order. He is stranger
to you, and yet none who hear what are pleased
with him and captivated beyond expression. One John at the
convention wrote to his friend in the Connecticut that he
(22:13):
quote found Jay's reasoning to be weighty as gold, polished
as silver, and strong as steel. On June twenty six,
John Williams, an Upstate delegate, proposed a resolution that would
deny Congress the power to impose an excise tax on
products grown or manufactured the United States. The argument for
the resolution, according to Jay, were quote non matured and
(22:34):
quote half baked. And Jay suggested they should go home
to cut grass rather than take up matters by halves.
It is a known Jay Mennett or just trying to
stall for time. Governor Clinton, the convention's presiding officer called
Jay's buff, asking why Jay didn't move to adjourn, and
Jay responded to the Clinton should spend time clarifying the position.
The next day, in July first, Jay got up and
(22:56):
spoke his position against the resolution. According to Francis Child's
notes of the neuro Ratification Convention debates, and this gives
you some feeling for Jay, who's really an intellectual, argues
in a very rational, methodical way. Quote John Jay rose
and said that he would confine himself to a few remarks,
as the question had been pretty fully debated, he began
(23:18):
with a description of the general characteristics of a government
proper of the United States. It had, he said, been
justly laid down to the government, which was to accomplish
national purposes, should command the national resources. Here a question
had been raised, who to be proper that the state
governments should limit the powers of the general government relative
to its supplies, would be right or politic? That the
(23:39):
sovereign power of a nation should depend for support on
the mere will of the several members of that nation.
That the interest of a park should take place of
that of the whole, or that the partial views of
one of the members should interfere with and defeat the
views of all. He said that, after the most mature reflection,
he could see no possible impropriety in the general government
(24:00):
having access to all the resources in the country. With
respect to direct taxes, it appeared him that the proposed
amendment would involve great difficulties. Suppose the state should refuse
to comply with not the same mode is the same
reasons which produced the non compliance? And do such state
to resist to impose the in collecting of the tax?
Would not a number of states in similar circumstances beack
(24:20):
to unite to give their resistance weight. They could not
all be forced. It's interesting, if you think about it.
We're currently having a fight over things like can the
federal government declare that's going after illegal immigrants, or can
a city or state decide that they can buy themselves
declare sanctuary. And of course, all the way to the
founding fatherst was now, of course not once you've made
(24:42):
a federal decision, no state or local community could interpose
itself between the federal government and the application of law.
On July fourth, seventeen eighty eight, Jay wrote John Adams
that despite quote the many amendments proposed by the opposition,
we proceed with much temper and moderation. I am not
without hopes of an accommodation, although my expectations of it are
(25:03):
not very silquine. Even with awotion. In the same day, quote,
the Constitution constantly gains advocates among the people, and its
enemies in the Convention seemed to be much embarrassed. By
July eighth, the delegates finished their explanation of the Constitution,
and Jay wrote to Washington, quote the ground of rejected
seemed to be entirely deserted. By July tenth, fifty five
(25:26):
amendments were proposed in the categories explanatory, conditional, and recommendatory.
A fourteen man committee was appointed with John Jay as
a leader. Although what happened in this committee was never
any official reports, the New York Daily Advertiser did write quote,
when the committee met, mister j declared that the word
conditional should be erased before there should be any decision
(25:48):
of the merits the amendment. This occasion about an hour's debate,
and the Anti is determining not to give up that point.
The committee was dissolved without affecting anything. According to Jay,
a conditional ratification amounted to a virtual and total rejection
of the Constitution, and declared that they could not consult
with them at all if they insisted upon that point.
(26:08):
According to the New York Daily Advertiser, both parties were
firm and the committee ended without reaching any agreement. That afternoon,
Jay reported the convention of that quote, no plan of
conciliation has been formed and no measure taken. He then
blamed the anti Federalists for quote adhering rigidly to the
principle of conditional adoption which is inadmissible and absurd. By
(26:29):
July twenty third, after days of heated arguments, Jay wrote
Washington at the convention, by a vote of thirty one
to twenty nine, adopted the motion to strike out the
words onconditioned and substitute in full confidence, though he cautioned
Washington that the opficertion planned to rally their forces to
regain their ground. And think about this. The Constitution of
(26:49):
the United States, in what is one of its most
important states, is surviving by a vote of thirty one
twenty nine. Anybody who thinks that this was automatic or
a done deal or easy, the work of Jay and
others pulled off something which easily could have failed. On
July twenty fourth, Jay took to the FOID to express
(27:11):
the hope the unanimous agreement could be reached for second Convention,
saying we are now one people, all pledged for amendments.
On July twenty fifth, Jay proposed amendment of boring all
except natural born citizens from Eligiblita's president, vice president, or
members of either House of Congress. This member was adopted
by the majority, but like many amendments of the New
(27:32):
York Convention proposed never was incorporated into the Constitution. In
seventeen eighty nine, the Constitution having been adopted, John Jay
became the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court under Washington.
He's best known for the case of Chisholm versus Georgia,
the first significant case of the Supreme Court. In seventeen
ninety two, Alexander Chisholm, the executor of Robert Farquhar's of State,
(27:56):
attempted to sue the State of Georgia over payments due
to him for goods Robert Farquhart had supplied Georgia during
the Revolutionary War. Georgia refused to appeal, claiming that as
a sovereign state, it could not be sued without consenting
to the suit. In a four to one decision, the
Court ruled in favor of Chisholm, with Chief Justice John
Jay and Justice as John Blair, James Wilson, and William
(28:19):
Cushing and the majority. The Court ruled that Georgia did
not have sovereign immunity and could be sued. In response
to this ruling, Congress proposed the Eleventh Amendment, which was
ratified in seventeen ninety five, which prevented citizens of other
states for foreign countries from suing states in federal court.
Now Washington cz J has more than just a justice.
(28:40):
In seventeen ninety four, at Washington's request, J went to
England to negotiate a treaty between Britain and the United States.
Jay's only bargainingship was the threat that the Nited States
whod joined the Danish and Swedish governments in defending their
neutral state and resisting the British seizure of their goods. However,
Hamilton informed the British that the United States said no
intention of joining the sugreement with Denmark and Sweden, thus
(29:03):
leaving Jay with no leverage. The treaty addressed for very
few of the United States interests and honorly granted Britain
with more rights. The only thing that the United States
got was a surrender of the northwestern ports and a
commercial treaty of Great Britain that granted the United States
most Favored nation status. All the other issues, including the
Canadian mean border, compensation for pre revolutionary debts, and British
(29:25):
caesars of American ships, were to be resolved by arbitration.
Jay conceded that the British could seize US goods bound
for France if they paid for them. On November nineteenth,
seventeen ninety four, the treaty was signed. The treaty was
controversial and unpopular among Americans, but it still managed to
be ratified by the Senate on a twenty to ten vote.
On June twenty fourth, seventeen ninety while negotiating Jay's treaty,
(29:48):
he was elected as Governor of New York. Jay left
the Supreme Court to take office and served as governor
for six years. While governor, he signed the Act for
the Gradual Abolition of Slavery. The law all made children
born to enslave mothers after July fourth, seventeen seventy nine,
legally free. However, these children would be required to work
for their mothers and slavers until they reached the age
(30:10):
of twenty five for females and twenty eight for males,
but it was a first major step towards emancipation. In
eighteen oh one, after twenty seven years of public service,
Jay decided to retire. By that time, Jay acquired seven
hundred and fifty acres of land by inheritance. While he
was governor, he made renovations to his farmhouse in preparation
(30:31):
for retirement. He moved there in eighteen oh one, and
by that following spring, his wife, Sarah died, leaving him
a widower with his three youngest children at home. Jay
never remarried and stayed there until his death in eighteen
twenty nine. You know, John Jay is an example the
kind of person with a wide range of talents who
(30:52):
didn't start out in life being anti British, didn't start
out in life thinking he was an American, but gradly
over time not only concluded that independence was necessary, but
concluded that that required a sound government that would work
and function, that would protect our freedoms, both from enemies
abroad and from the dangers of tyranny at home. And
(31:13):
then he decided he would work in a variety of ways.
Think about all the different things he did in his career,
all the different jobs he held, and he was truly
an American citizen and the kind of person who made
America possible. In that sense, John Jay deserves far more
credit than he normally gets, and he was sort of
the quintessential foundation on which America was built. You can
(31:40):
learn more about John Jay on our show page at
newtsworld dot com. Newtworld is produced by ginglishry sixty and iHeartMedia,
our executive producers guard Zi Sloan, and our researchers Rachel Peterson.
The art work for the show was created by Steve
Penley special thanks to the team of gingishry sixty. If
you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple
podcas Cast and both rate us with five stars and
(32:02):
give us a review so others can learn what it's
all about. Right now, listeners of neut World can sign
up for my three freeweekly columns at gingrichree sixty dot
com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is neutrald
In this episode of the News World. The lives of
these men are essential to understand the American form of
government and our ideals of liberty. The founding fathers all
played key roles in securing American independence from Great Britain
and in the creation of the government of the United
States of America. Now the life of John Jay. Jay
(00:33):
was born in New York City on December twelfth, seventeen
forty five. His grandfather, Augustus Jay, was a French Huguenot
who came to America in the sixteen eighties seeking religious freedom.
His father, Peter j was a merchant who retired to
a farm and rune in New York shortly after John
was born. In his early years, he was educated by
private tutors and then entered King's College in the summer
(00:57):
of seventeen sixty. King's College became Priston much years later.
After graduating in seventeen sixty four, Jay became a law
clerk in the office of Benjamin Cassim. After his admission
to the bar in seventeen sixty eight, Jay established a
legal practice with Robert R. Livingston Junior, and in seventeen
seventy one he opened his own law firm. In April
(01:20):
of seventeen seventy four, Jay married Sarah Livingston, the daughter
of New Jersey Governor William Livingston, and in May of
seventeen seventy four Jay undered New York politics and he
never returned to his law practice. Jay initially wanted reconciliation
with Britain. He advocated for a peaceful resolution. Jay, as
(01:42):
a member the First Condinal Congress, wrote an address to
the people of Great Britain on October twenty first, seventeen
seventy four, outlining the grievances that the colonies said, but
also hoping for a peaceful resolution. It's important remember that
as the pattern of builds towards revolution, that in fact
there a lot of people wrestling with themselves. Do we
(02:04):
really have to do this? And Jay was one of
those people. He wrote quote in almost every age in
repeated conflicts, in long and bloody wars as well civil
as foreign, against many and powerful nations, against the open
assaults of enemies, and the more dangerous treachery of friends.
Have the inhabitants of your island, your great and glorious ancestors,
(02:28):
maintained their independence and transmitted the rights of men and
the blessings of liberty to you their posterity, be not surprised. Therefore,
the we who are descended from the same common ancestors,
the we whose forefathers participated in all the rights, the liberties,
and the constitution you so justly boast of, and who
(02:49):
have carefully conveyed the same fair inheritance to us, guaranteed
by the plighted faith of government and the most solemn
compacts with the British sovereigns, should refuse to surrender them
to men who found their claims are no principles of reason,
and who prosecute them with a design that, by having
their lives and property in their power, they may with
(03:10):
the greater facility and slave you. Because of America is
now the object of universal attention, it has at length
become very serious. This unhappy country is not even oppressed,
but abused and misrepresented. And the duty we owe to
ourselves and posterity, to your interest and the general welfare
of the British Empire, leads to address you on this
(03:32):
very important subject. Know then that we consider ourselves and
do insist that we are and ought to be as
free as our fellow subjects in Britain, and that no
power on earth has a right to take our property
from us without our consent. That we claim all the
benefits secured to the subject by the English Constitution, and
(03:53):
particularly that inestimal woman of trial by jury, That we
hold it essential to English liberty that no man be
can on heard or punished for supposed offenses without having
an opportunity of making his defense. That we think the
Legislature Great Britain is not authorized by the Constitution to
establish a religion fraught with sandveinary in impious tenets, or
(04:16):
to erect an arbitrary form of government in any quarter
of the globe. These rights we, as well as you,
deem sacred, and yet sacred as they are, they have
with many others, then repeatedly and flagrantly violated. Jay contributed
to the early draft of the Olive Branch Petition, which
the Second Continental Congress wrote to King George the Third
(04:38):
in seventeen seventy four as a last attempt to reconcile
with Britain before going to war. Note just the term
Olive Branch petition. These are cornials who really want to
remain British. They really want to avoid war. They really
want to have the king respond so they can be
loyal to the king. Furthermore, Jay was one of the
(05:01):
lead authors of the New York State Constitution, which replaced
the colonial Royal Charter. Notice. Step by step, reluctantly, he
moves from offering total support to Britain, signing an olive
branch petition, and now writing notice not New York colony
(05:22):
New York State Constitution. Shortly after the ratification of the
New York State Constitution, on May seventeen, seventy seven, the
New York Provincial Congress elected Jay to the Chief Justice
of the New York Supreme Court of Judicature, where he
served for two years. During his time as Chief Justice,
New York was still under English rule. Jay wrote to
(05:44):
Governor Morris of his time as Chief Justice, quote, I
am now engaged in the most disagreeable part of my duty,
trying criminals. They multiply exceedingly, robberies become frequent, the woods
afore them shelter, and the tori's food punishment master course
becomes certain and mercy dorned. A harsh system, repugnant to
(06:05):
my feelings, but nevertheless necessary. So Jay's torn because on
the one hand, he really wants to be a nice guy.
He's really tried all the way through to appease Great Britain,
to appease the King. But the reality was they're now
in a real war, and that they are in a
(06:25):
period where there's more and more dissolution of society, there
are more and more criminals, and that many of those
criminals found themselves sheltered by the Tories, who of course
were pro king, and he saw some of the criminals
as being their allies against the rebels who are pro American.
And so Jay finds himself on the one hand, he
(06:46):
doesn't really want to put these people in jail, but
on the other hand, if he doesn't, the whole system's
going to fall apart. He's very conflicted because one form
of justice requires punishing them. But at the same time,
their very existence is an illustration of the conflict that
the virtual civil war that is now broken loose. And
(07:07):
remember that about twenty percent of Americans remained loyal to
the King, who wasn't unanimity. The best estimate I think
he is about forty percent were in fact committed to
the revolution. At least twenty percent were committed to the
King in about another forty percent, frankly just wanted to
go about their life and stay out of it. So
(07:28):
it wasn't any kind of unanimous automatic hiphip Paray and
Jay is trying to balance justice what he really believes in,
with necessity, which he accepts to be true. Now he's
taken out of the court and from seventeen seventy nine
to seventeen eighty two he serves as the ambassador to Spain.
Remember by this stage he's the ambassador for the United States,
(07:52):
and so he has broken decisively with England. He was
sent to Spain to convince the Spanish government to recognize
America as a separate nation, without any success. Spain did
not want to risk any kind of relationship until it
became evident that Britain and the United States were going
to sign a treaty and recognize US independence. Spain was
very vulnerable the blockade by the British Navy, and they
(08:15):
didn't want to get into a fight directly with England
if they could avoid it. Jay is continuing to think
about America evenis in Spain and ony tenth they seventeen
eighty five, he wrote to John Lowell and his vision
for a group of the United States. Quote, it is
my first wish to see the United States assume and
merit the character of one great nation whose territories divided
(08:39):
into different states merely for more convenient government and more
easy and prompt administration of justice, just as our several
states are divided into counties and townships for the like purpose.
Now Jay realized that we had this balance. We couldn't
stay thirteen separate small states without having the French, the British,
(09:04):
the Spanish, and others trying to manipulate this. On the
other hand, there's a real challenge. If you build a
government strong enough to stop foreigners from exploiting you, does
it become so strong that the government itself exploits you?
And Jay realized, based upon the Spirit of the Laws,
a book written by Monuscue, a French theoretician about forty
(09:27):
years earlier, that the best way to preserve freedom was
to have three different and separate branches of government. On
August eighteen, seventeen eighty six, he wrote Thomas Jefferson, quote,
I have long sought and become daily more convinced that
the construction of our federal government is fundamentally wrong to us.
The legislative of judicial and executive powers in one and
(09:49):
the same body of men, And that too, in a
body daily changing its members can never be wise. In
my opinion, these three great departments of sovereignty should be
forever set and so distributed as to service checks on
each other. Now, that was clearly Montusque's model, and it's
one which the Founding Fathers gradually all come to agree
(10:11):
is the right one. On January seventh, seventeen eighty seven,
Jay wrote to George Washington, quote, let Congress legislate, let
others execute, let others judge. In other words, clear division
of power between the three branches, something which remember we're
still fighting over. I mean, you have judges telling the
chief executive what he can and can't do. You have
(10:33):
Congress and several fights with the executive branch and the judges.
And that is by design. The Founding Fathers wanted a
government strong enough to protect us from foreigners, and a
government that was weak enough that it could not, in
fact enslave us. And that's the model we're still wrestling with.
(11:06):
So on January twenty seventh, seventeen eighty six, Well, the
government was still one of the articles of Confederation, which
had clearly failed. Jay wrote to Washington, warning him that
the population quote will be led by the insecurity of property,
the losing of confidence and their rulers, and the want
of public faith and rectitude to consider the charms of liberty,
imaginary and de lusique. In other words, if they can't
(11:28):
get government to work, if they can't make life better,
if they can't find a way to solve problems of
inflation and other things, people is going to give up
on self government. On August fifteenth, seventeen eighty six, Washington
responded to writing quote year sentiments, that our affairs are
drawing rapidly to a crisis accord with my own. Now,
(11:49):
these are the guys who just won the Revolutionary War.
In Washington's case, he'd spent eight years in the field,
only going back home command Vernon one time in eight years.
And they were looking at the great achievement of getting
free from Britain, gradually disintegrating because they don't have a
common government and a common set of rules. Continental Congress
(12:10):
wasn't capable of running things. And so they met in
Philadelphia and what was really a coup d etad. They
were supposed to go and fix the articles of Confederation.
Instead they just dumped them and they wrote the Constitution
of the United States. Now, the Constitution, in order to
become real, had to go out and be ratified by
the people, and in order to convince the people, articles
(12:33):
had to be written. The most famous collection, I think
the most famous and powerful pamphlets in political history are
the Federalist papers. They're eighty five of them. They are remarkable,
and for anybody who truly wants to understand American government,
there is no better starting point. Jay wrote five of them,
numbers two, three, four, five, and sixty four. His first paper,
(12:56):
Federals Number one, stressed the importance of government. Jay wrote, quote,
nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government,
and it is equally undeniable that whenever and however it
is instituted, the people must cede to it some of
their natural rights in order to vest it with requisite powers.
In his fourth paper, Jay wrote the need to be united,
(13:18):
writing leave America divided into thirteen, or if you please,
into three or four independent governments? What armies could they
raise and pay? What fleets could they ever hope to have?
If one was attacked, with the others fly to its
sucker and spend their blood and money in its defense,
would there be no danger of their being flattered into
neutrality by specious promises or seduced by a too great
(13:40):
fondness for peace. He's truly trying to lay it out
the way it really is, in a way that's remarkable. Now,
despite all this work by Jay, there was a very absurd,
false rumor about Jay's opposition to the Constitution. And this
is important because the Constitution is going to be adopted
both in popular votes and in legislative votes all across
(14:01):
the country. The rumor first surfaced on November twenty fourth,
seventeen eighty seven, when the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer reported that
a non name source, and we're certainly familiar with this model,
an unnamed source said, quote his excellency John Jay, a
gentleman of the first rate abilities, joined to a good heart,
who at first was carried away with the new plan
(14:22):
of government, is now very decidedly against it and says
it is as deep and wicked a conspiracy as has
ever been invented in the darkest ages against the liberties
of a free people. In New York. It goes by
the name of the Gilded Trap, and very properly, for
when we find men of the first abilities and best
intentions at first taken with it, how very artfully they
(14:42):
must have been drawn up and glossed over. And who, then,
wonder at the General Washington or anybody else, could have
signed it. In convention, the Governor of New York is
very active against it, and will not call the Assembly, who,
in that case will not meet this some months. In
the meantime, the people there will have time to think
for themselves on this important subject. This is clearly a
(15:03):
report designed to weaken the support for the Constitution. It
was quickly reprinted in papers all across the colonies. In response,
Washington wrote, quote, it is very unlikely, therefore, that a
man of his knowledge and foresight should turn on both
sides of a question in so short a space. I
am anxious, however, to know the foundation of any of this. Mattison,
(15:26):
in response that said, the support quote is an arrant forgery,
and one Washington that quote, tricks of this sort are
not unknown with the enemies of the Constitution. And I
think we today have no idea how intense, how passionate
and how real the fight was over whether or not
to adopt the Constitution. Once Jay heard of this, he
wrote to John Vaughan on December first, seventeen eighty seven,
(15:49):
which was printed in the Pennsylvania Packet on December seventh, quote,
Dear Sir, I thank you for your obliging letter the
twenty fourth, aught on and closing a paragraph respecting me
and misster Oswell's paper of the same date, You have
my authority to deny the change of sentiments that imputes
to me, and to declare that, in my opinion, it
is advisable for the people of America to adopt the
(16:10):
constitution proposed by the Way Convention. If you should think
it expedient to publish this letter, I have no objections
to its being done there He responded, and in seventeen
eighty eight he wrote a pamphlet called and addressed to
the people of the State of New York, on the
subject of the Constitution agreed upon that Philadelphia, which Hamilton
(16:30):
cited in Federal's Number eighty five. Ben Franklin suggested that
Jay put his name on the pamphlet, as would add
weight to the document, but Jay did not take this
suggestion that the address appeared as an anonymous pamphlet. However,
in a June nineteenth, seventy eighty eight letter, his wife
Sarah Livingston wrote the Jay's well known style, gave it away,
(16:51):
and in June eighth, seventeen eighty eight, Washington's Madison a
copywriting quote. It is written with much good sense and moderation.
I conjecture, but upon no certain ground, that mister Jay
is the author of it. He sent it to be
some time ago, since which I have received two or
three more copies. The address summarized his arguments for the Constitution,
the need for different branches of government, and dangers of
(17:13):
government vested solely in one man or one body of
men quote like men to whom the experience of other
ages and countries have taught wisdom. Then only determined that
it should be erected by and depend on the people.
Remembering the many instances in which governments vested solely in
one man or one body of men had degenerated into tyrannies,
(17:33):
they judged it most prudent that the three great branches
of power should be committed to different hands, and therefore
that the executives should be separated from the legislative and
the judicial from both. Thus far the property of their
work is easily seen and understood, and therefore is thus
far almost universally approved. For no one man or thing
under the sun has ever yet pleased everybody. The next
(17:56):
question was what particular power should be given to these
three branches. Here the different views in interest to the
different states, as well as the different abstract opinions that
AIR members in such points, interposed many difficulties. On Sunday,
April thirteenth, seventeen eighty eight, a day after Jay's address
was supposed to be published, as a prank, a medical
(18:17):
student waved a dismembered limit of some boys below a
window of the New York Hospital. This led to the
discovery of dismembered corpses inside the building, pointing to grave robbing.
A riot ensued, forcing physicians and students from the hospital
to take refuge in the city jail. Hamilton, Governor George Clinton,
Mayor James Dwayne, and a small group of militia tried
(18:39):
to stop the rioters from attacking the jail, but were unsuccessful.
By that afternoon, the jail was still under siege, and
John Jay and Matthew Clark's and armed with swords, marched
towards the jail with fifty militiamen. Jay was struck in
the head with a stone and seriously injured, and according
to a letter from Jay's wife to his mother, Jay
was carried home for emergency medical attention. However, he recovered.
(19:19):
January thirty first, seventeen eighty eight, New York State Senator
Egbert Benson proposed the state legislature that the delegates to
the ratifying convention be chosen in the same number as
the state Assemblyman by all the free male citizens of
the age of twenty one years and upwards, and they
meet him Poughkeepsie the third Thursday of June. Despite initial
(19:40):
pushback from Governor George Clinton, both houses passed the resolution
setting elections for delegates for the end of April. Almost immediately,
Jay's name started a pearing in the list of potential candidates.
On February sixteenth, seventeen eighty eight, someone named Quote, a Federalist,
included Jay on his list of candidates. On February twentieth,
he was again proposed, with the writer saying of Jay,
(20:02):
quote from his long services abroad and at home, in
the nature of his present office as Minister of Foreign Affairs,
he must be supposed to possess the best information of
any of the United States on our relative situation with
foreign nations. A few weeks later, Quote an Independent elector
and Quote a Citizen included Jay on their proposed list
of candidates. On April nine, seventeen eighty eight, Thomas Randall,
(20:25):
a prominent New York merchant, put j in a more
formal federal ticket for New York City and County on
behalf of a number of your fellow citizens. Jay's name
was included on a nine man slate adopted a meeting
of a large number of respectable mechanics and tradesmen, which
assembled at Van Waters Tavern. Jan in March twenty fourth,
seventeen eighty eight. Letter to William Bingham said that the
(20:47):
election would be the most contested of any we have
had since the Revolution. That didn't prove to be correct.
The anti Federalists did not enter a slate, though some
votes were cast for their candidates. Two thousand, eight hundred
and thirty six ballots were cast, the largest number that
had been courted in the New York City election at
the time. Jay one with two thousand, seven hundred and
(21:09):
thirty five now has an example of respect and popularity.
Let me repeat that number. Out of two thousand, eight
hundred and thirty six votes, he got two thousand, seven
hundred and thirty five. That's an amazing number. Somebody has
run for office after day. I wish once in my
life I could have had that murder. For days after
the convention began, Jay wrote to his wife, quote, the
(21:29):
proceedings and debates have been tempered and inoffensive to either party,
though the opposition to the proposed constitution appears formidable, more
so from numbers and other considerations. Jay's appearance on the
floor of the convention caught the eye of many. The
correspondent for the New Or Daily Advertiser wrote on June
twenty first, seventy eight, quote, after the Chancellor had concluded,
(21:50):
mister j. Rose commanding pleasure and satisfaction, and no doubt
he spoke convincingly on the points raised. Is the most
peculiar knack of expressing himself I ever heard fancy passion,
in short, everything that makes in order. He is stranger
to you, and yet none who hear what are pleased
with him and captivated beyond expression. One John at the
convention wrote to his friend in the Connecticut that he
(22:13):
quote found Jay's reasoning to be weighty as gold, polished
as silver, and strong as steel. On June twenty six,
John Williams, an Upstate delegate, proposed a resolution that would
deny Congress the power to impose an excise tax on
products grown or manufactured the United States. The argument for
the resolution, according to Jay, were quote non matured and
(22:34):
quote half baked. And Jay suggested they should go home
to cut grass rather than take up matters by halves.
It is a known Jay Mennett or just trying to
stall for time. Governor Clinton, the convention's presiding officer called
Jay's buff, asking why Jay didn't move to adjourn, and
Jay responded to the Clinton should spend time clarifying the position.
The next day, in July first, Jay got up and
(22:56):
spoke his position against the resolution. According to Francis Child's
notes of the neuro Ratification Convention debates, and this gives
you some feeling for Jay, who's really an intellectual, argues
in a very rational, methodical way. Quote John Jay rose
and said that he would confine himself to a few remarks,
as the question had been pretty fully debated, he began
(23:18):
with a description of the general characteristics of a government
proper of the United States. It had, he said, been
justly laid down to the government, which was to accomplish
national purposes, should command the national resources. Here a question
had been raised, who to be proper that the state
governments should limit the powers of the general government relative
to its supplies, would be right or politic? That the
(23:39):
sovereign power of a nation should depend for support on
the mere will of the several members of that nation.
That the interest of a park should take place of
that of the whole, or that the partial views of
one of the members should interfere with and defeat the
views of all. He said that, after the most mature reflection,
he could see no possible impropriety in the general government
(24:00):
having access to all the resources in the country. With
respect to direct taxes, it appeared him that the proposed
amendment would involve great difficulties. Suppose the state should refuse
to comply with not the same mode is the same
reasons which produced the non compliance? And do such state
to resist to impose the in collecting of the tax?
Would not a number of states in similar circumstances beack
(24:20):
to unite to give their resistance weight. They could not
all be forced. It's interesting, if you think about it.
We're currently having a fight over things like can the
federal government declare that's going after illegal immigrants, or can
a city or state decide that they can buy themselves
declare sanctuary. And of course, all the way to the
founding fatherst was now, of course not once you've made
(24:42):
a federal decision, no state or local community could interpose
itself between the federal government and the application of law.
On July fourth, seventeen eighty eight, Jay wrote John Adams
that despite quote the many amendments proposed by the opposition,
we proceed with much temper and moderation. I am not
without hopes of an accommodation, although my expectations of it are
(25:03):
not very silquine. Even with awotion. In the same day, quote,
the Constitution constantly gains advocates among the people, and its
enemies in the Convention seemed to be much embarrassed. By
July eighth, the delegates finished their explanation of the Constitution,
and Jay wrote to Washington, quote the ground of rejected
seemed to be entirely deserted. By July tenth, fifty five
(25:26):
amendments were proposed in the categories explanatory, conditional, and recommendatory.
A fourteen man committee was appointed with John Jay as
a leader. Although what happened in this committee was never
any official reports, the New York Daily Advertiser did write quote,
when the committee met, mister j declared that the word
conditional should be erased before there should be any decision
(25:48):
of the merits the amendment. This occasion about an hour's debate,
and the Anti is determining not to give up that point.
The committee was dissolved without affecting anything. According to Jay,
a conditional ratification amounted to a virtual and total rejection
of the Constitution, and declared that they could not consult
with them at all if they insisted upon that point.
(26:08):
According to the New York Daily Advertiser, both parties were
firm and the committee ended without reaching any agreement. That afternoon,
Jay reported the convention of that quote, no plan of
conciliation has been formed and no measure taken. He then
blamed the anti Federalists for quote adhering rigidly to the
principle of conditional adoption which is inadmissible and absurd. By
(26:29):
July twenty third, after days of heated arguments, Jay wrote
Washington at the convention, by a vote of thirty one
to twenty nine, adopted the motion to strike out the
words onconditioned and substitute in full confidence, though he cautioned
Washington that the opficertion planned to rally their forces to
regain their ground. And think about this. The Constitution of
(26:49):
the United States, in what is one of its most
important states, is surviving by a vote of thirty one
twenty nine. Anybody who thinks that this was automatic or
a done deal or easy, the work of Jay and
others pulled off something which easily could have failed. On
July twenty fourth, Jay took to the FOID to express
(27:11):
the hope the unanimous agreement could be reached for second Convention,
saying we are now one people, all pledged for amendments.
On July twenty fifth, Jay proposed amendment of boring all
except natural born citizens from Eligiblita's president, vice president, or
members of either House of Congress. This member was adopted
by the majority, but like many amendments of the New
(27:32):
York Convention proposed never was incorporated into the Constitution. In
seventeen eighty nine, the Constitution having been adopted, John Jay
became the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court under Washington.
He's best known for the case of Chisholm versus Georgia,
the first significant case of the Supreme Court. In seventeen
ninety two, Alexander Chisholm, the executor of Robert Farquhar's of State,
(27:56):
attempted to sue the State of Georgia over payments due
to him for goods Robert Farquhart had supplied Georgia during
the Revolutionary War. Georgia refused to appeal, claiming that as
a sovereign state, it could not be sued without consenting
to the suit. In a four to one decision, the
Court ruled in favor of Chisholm, with Chief Justice John
Jay and Justice as John Blair, James Wilson, and William
(28:19):
Cushing and the majority. The Court ruled that Georgia did
not have sovereign immunity and could be sued. In response
to this ruling, Congress proposed the Eleventh Amendment, which was
ratified in seventeen ninety five, which prevented citizens of other
states for foreign countries from suing states in federal court.
Now Washington cz J has more than just a justice.
(28:40):
In seventeen ninety four, at Washington's request, J went to
England to negotiate a treaty between Britain and the United States.
Jay's only bargainingship was the threat that the Nited States
whod joined the Danish and Swedish governments in defending their
neutral state and resisting the British seizure of their goods. However,
Hamilton informed the British that the United States said no
intention of joining the sugreement with Denmark and Sweden, thus
(29:03):
leaving Jay with no leverage. The treaty addressed for very
few of the United States interests and honorly granted Britain
with more rights. The only thing that the United States
got was a surrender of the northwestern ports and a
commercial treaty of Great Britain that granted the United States
most Favored nation status. All the other issues, including the
Canadian mean border, compensation for pre revolutionary debts, and British
(29:25):
caesars of American ships, were to be resolved by arbitration.
Jay conceded that the British could seize US goods bound
for France if they paid for them. On November nineteenth,
seventeen ninety four, the treaty was signed. The treaty was
controversial and unpopular among Americans, but it still managed to
be ratified by the Senate on a twenty to ten vote.
On June twenty fourth, seventeen ninety while negotiating Jay's treaty,
(29:48):
he was elected as Governor of New York. Jay left
the Supreme Court to take office and served as governor
for six years. While governor, he signed the Act for
the Gradual Abolition of Slavery. The law all made children
born to enslave mothers after July fourth, seventeen seventy nine,
legally free. However, these children would be required to work
for their mothers and slavers until they reached the age
(30:10):
of twenty five for females and twenty eight for males,
but it was a first major step towards emancipation. In
eighteen oh one, after twenty seven years of public service,
Jay decided to retire. By that time, Jay acquired seven
hundred and fifty acres of land by inheritance. While he
was governor, he made renovations to his farmhouse in preparation
(30:31):
for retirement. He moved there in eighteen oh one, and
by that following spring, his wife, Sarah died, leaving him
a widower with his three youngest children at home. Jay
never remarried and stayed there until his death in eighteen
twenty nine. You know, John Jay is an example the
kind of person with a wide range of talents who
(30:52):
didn't start out in life being anti British, didn't start
out in life thinking he was an American, but gradly
over time not only concluded that independence was necessary, but
concluded that that required a sound government that would work
and function, that would protect our freedoms, both from enemies
abroad and from the dangers of tyranny at home. And
(31:13):
then he decided he would work in a variety of ways.
Think about all the different things he did in his career,
all the different jobs he held, and he was truly
an American citizen and the kind of person who made
America possible. In that sense, John Jay deserves far more
credit than he normally gets, and he was sort of
the quintessential foundation on which America was built. You can
(31:40):
learn more about John Jay on our show page at
newtsworld dot com. Newtworld is produced by ginglishry sixty and iHeartMedia,
our executive producers guard Zi Sloan, and our researchers Rachel Peterson.
The art work for the show was created by Steve
Penley special thanks to the team of gingishry sixty. If
you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple
podcas Cast and both rate us with five stars and
(32:02):
give us a review so others can learn what it's
all about. Right now, listeners of neut World can sign
up for my three freeweekly columns at gingrichree sixty dot
com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is neutrald
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!