Bowen Yang found his sense of humor during fourth grade recess

“This is never going to be on TV,” says Bowen Yang, reflecting on the now-viral Saturday Night Live sketch where he plays the iceberg that sank the Titanic. “It’s such a big swing.” It turns out, if anyone can knock an unexpected pitch out of the park, it’s the 30-year-old comedian who has quickly risen to fan-favorite in his short time on the show. On this episode of Next Question with Katie Couric, Katie gets the full Bowen picture, digging into his cross-national childhood, understanding what it was like to come out to his parents, going behind the scenes of his SNL audition process and getting the anatomy of some of his favorite sketches. Katie and Bowen also talk about the cult-favorite podcast he co-hosts, “Las Culturistas,” and where the talented and endearing young star goes from here. If you weren’t smitten with Bowen Yang before, you will be after this podcast. 

Check out some of the Saturday Night Live sketches mentioned in the episode:

Sara Lee

The Iceberg on the Sinking of the Titanic

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm Katie Currict and this is next question.
You are going to love this week's guest if you're
not already smitten. He's the co host of the cult
favorite podcast Lost Culture ristaag. He's killing it on Saturday
Night Live. Oh no, babe, you cannot stop TikTok. We

(00:22):
took videos and we made them shorter. We took babies
and we made them cuter. We took lip things and
we made them straight. Not to mention all sorts of
guest spots on hit comedy shows like Aquafina's Nora from Queens,
You're Dumplings, Look like the Pillsbury dood Boy Got Hate Crimes,
and The New Girls five Beba. I just shook. This

(00:43):
is real, pet, that's right. He's Bowen Yang. Wow, thank
you for having me. This is um This is very thrilling.
We got the full Bowen picture, from how we developed
his great sense of humor to how is Sketch about
an Iceberg became an Internet since station, But we started
by talking about his success and what he makes of it.

(01:06):
I don't know. I don't know, Katie, I mean, like,
what do you make of it? Like? How should I be?
I feel like you've talked to so many people that
you must have some mental model of like what the
best mindset is for people. Well, I don't know. I
feel like you were kind of destined for this moment
and this opportunity. No no, no, no no, just reading
all about you and your life and you know the

(01:28):
fact that your high school voted to you most likely
to appear on SNL, which is so funny and it's
just listen. It's just sort of everything kind of came together,
and so I hope you're enjoying it. I hope you're
not so neurotic that you can't be like, wow, this
is pretty eff and cool. Well, I thank you for

(01:49):
saying that, because I think that has that has been
something that's like not held me back in any way.
But I whatever, I mean, you you probably can relate
to this. They asked me to write this like commencement
speechie thing for this like um whatever, this podcast that's
like putting out commencement speeches. And I wrote something, and

(02:10):
I thought about I thought back to my own commencement,
like my graduation experiences, and the theme for both of
those was that I was not present, that I was
just living in anxiety about what was coming next, and
I wish that I had sort of like understood that,
you know, commencement ceremonies like that are important for this,

(02:32):
like they're important unto themselves, Like they're important because you
don't because life doesn't give you opportunities to like ceremoniously
celebrate yourself in any way or like where you're at.
And I think I have very kind I wrote that,
and then I consciously thought, wow, maybe I should do this,
like this should apply to me now right, like I
should be kind of sitting very still whenever I can,

(02:54):
with the idea that like, wow, this is this is why,
I mean, this is really special and I am living
the suxceptional thing that I think has happened both serendipitously
and fortuitously but also through through work, and like there's
there's there's a way to think about that in some
balanced way. And then my parents were in town this weekend. Um,

(03:15):
I saw your mom on Saturday night. She was so cute.
I loved her kissing you and then trying to yeah, yeah,
it was a good beat. It was a really cute
Did you guys come up with that together? That was
something that the writers of The Cold Open, Sudie Green
and Friend Gillespie did and I mean they had to
write some quick little comedy. They did a great job.

(03:38):
And I mean my my mom had a blast and
she had a lot of compliments from from people at
the show, being like, I mean prop work that is
that is not easy, that's very technical on TV and
so but yeah, I means she was in town and
she was even she turned to me yesterday she goes,
but when you're very lucky to be doing what you're doing,
and I go, yeah, you're right, Like I kind of

(04:02):
I have gotten to some like jaded points in recent
in the past year that I've thought, oh God, like
this is I'm I'm sort of like just kind of
going through the motions sometimes and thinking that it's not
something that I I'm doing with the enthusiasm that I
want to have. Does that make sense? Yeah, But I

(04:24):
also think the pandemic sort of screwed everybody up, So
I think you should give yourself a pass on kind
of feeling some ambivalence, right, Yeah, yeah, totally, totally, totally.
I just but yeah, I mean, like, I but you're right,
like this is I should be sitting with this with
as little to rosy as as possible, or or in

(04:46):
some healthy positioning where I don't have to think about
how God do I deserve this? Do I this? Do
I that? Yeah? Yeah, and you know, just enjoying it
because you know it's interesting because the work is work,
but it's also work that clearly you have been sort

(05:07):
of training for in one way or another your whole life.
And sure and preparing for this interview. I loved hearing
sort of your really fascinating life story about your mom
and dad. They're both born in China, Yes, and both
very accomplished, right. Your dad's an engineer, uh sort of
with mining expertise, your mom is an ob g y

(05:29):
n UM and you all came to this country. Where
did where did they first move? So they first moved
They met in China, and they first moved to Brisbane, Australia,
where my dad was getting his doctorate. And then at
that point my mom sort of made the sacrifice to um,
I mean her, her her license didn't just transfer over

(05:52):
when she when she moved out of China, and so
she was sort of just making sure that we were
all kind of that the children were being raised for
a while before she got back into work. When we
moved to Canada, we moved to Kingston, Ontario then and
then um Montreal, UM, and then that's where my sister
and I were up until we were up until I

(06:12):
was like eight or nine, and then we moved to Denver,
Colorado in n and then I grew up there until
end of high school and then moved here in New
York to New York for college and I've just been
here ever since. But yeah, it's then that that's like
a really crazy little commonwealth pall thing that they've played. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And your parents, do your parents still live in Aurora

(06:35):
or where do they live now? They're in Aurora. My
mom just retired a month ago, and it's looking good
on her and she but now so so now she's
in Atlanta, UM with my sister and she's raising two
kids there and so my and so my mom's helping out,
and so it's it's it's at all. She just seems
I mean, she seems like genuinely happy and relaxed and

(06:55):
in a good state that I haven't really sort of
been able to like see up close in a while
because of because of work, because of the pandemic and
so yeah, I mean, like I I took in a
moment of gratitude last night when I you know, went
out with them for for for dinner, and I was
just like, okay, like I can just sort of soak
this moment into where like I see my mom and

(07:16):
dad being sort of happy and it all sort of
aligned correctly after like a whole life to my lifetime
of just like hardship and sacrifice, and then letting me
know that like, you know, you wouldn't have been born,
you're the second child, you wouldn't have been born if
we had stayed in China, you know, like they sort
of they don't like very spitefully remind me of that,
but they But every now and then my mom will

(07:37):
be like, you know, sometimes I think about what would
have happened, but what our lives would have been like
if we if your dad and I had stayed in China,
and and then that would have meant that I wouldn't
have been born with them the one child only policy,
And so every now and then that kind of really
messes with me on an existential level. But then I think, oh,

(07:57):
but then I should that just means I should be
even more grateful, you know, or whatever. I should just
experience this on a sensory level. Let's talk about growing up.
Because were you always the funny kid Bowen? Were you
the guy? Were you the class clown? Well? I was.
It was something that was like assigned to me in
a way, or it was just like a mirrored like

(08:19):
someone would tell you. Someone would tell me, oh, you're
you're funny, or you're like you're being a little like
you're being the class clown in a way that that
was either pejorative or complimentary. And so because we would
move around a lot, and even like in Canada we
switched I I switched schools once or twice. It was
a thing where you had to adapt and as a kid,

(08:43):
that's very sort of tumultuous. But then the move from
Canada from Quebec, where I spoke French in school and
English was like the tertiary language literally because it was
French in school, you know, Mandarin and at home uh
and then English every now and then when you would
like run into like when a babysitter, bird come over

(09:03):
or something. Um. But then moving from Quebec to Denver,
was this this this really intense shock I know, it
seems like Canada and in the US are similar enough,
but it was this thing where I was like, oh gosh,
like this is a whole new culture, you know. Um.
And I think I realized that even as a kid, um,

(09:24):
because I was moving to Colorado right after Johnny Ramsay,
which happened in Boulder and in Columbine, and I was like,
Colorado is the place where the people get murdered. And
I was just like so terrified. Um as like you
know an eight year old and nine year old that
I was like, uh, I think I went to school.
I remember the first day of school, going into the

(09:45):
fourth grade, just feeling anxious and just feeling like, um,
just going into that kid logic of being like, well,
you know, my mom's gonna drop me off and then
she's gonna get into a car accident and I'm gonna,
you know, be an orphan. It's really fourth So you
you were very cognizant of Jampany Ramsey and Columbine at

(10:06):
what eight or nine years old? Yeah, because I mean
it was all over the news. I mean back then
it was like all believe me because I covered all
that stuff. Yeah. But that's interesting that it kind of
uh seeped into your mindset and made you anxious, understandably totally.
And it was the thing that um, you know, teachers
in Montreal would be like, well, Bowen, Bowen's maybe into

(10:28):
Colorado to the US and we all know what happened
there recently. It was kind of like that, I mean,
very morbid, very very very very very sad and scary.
Goot get him. And then I remember going to school, um,
not knowing how to make friends, not really being able

(10:48):
to speak the language. And then um, by like the
second week at recess, I had cheered up enough girls
who were who are who were like crying because someone
had said something mean to them or something that I'd
like run over there and like just try to like
get them, get them to stop crying or something, and
just because it made me upset to see them so
so upset. And that by like the third week of school,

(11:13):
this girl Victoria Results, and I've I've run into her
recently and I've told her this story, but she was like, oh,
when you're so funny, And that was like this like
someone conferring upon me this identity that I was, you know,
funny or I could like turn something on to to
make someone laugh or something elicit that out of them,

(11:34):
and then and then from there, like I really kind
of attached myself to that in a deep point. I
was like, well, this is my purpose in life is
to like do this. Um, but it sounds like it
was mixed with a lot of empathy. You know, that
you were very conscious of when people were suffering, Like

(11:54):
a lot of kids probably wouldn't go over there and
help someone who had been hurt, So that it's kind
of an an unusual quality for a little boy, specially.
I don't mean to gender no, but um, I think
it takes a certain emotional intelligence to kind of pick
up on those things and to go to someone's rescue

(12:15):
that way. So you did have empathy along with the
ability to make people laugh, right, Oh my gosh. I
mean the fact that you are observing this out of
like immediately kind of picking up on this after I
after I sort of share that is is why you're
Katie correct. But anyway, but yeah, I guess, I guess.
So yeah, so you you became sort of the funny guy.

(12:39):
And you not only became the funny guy, but you
also were obsessed with SNL. What at what age did
you start watching the show? I mean it probably a
too young age because it was right when I moved
to the US. And I don't believe we got it
in Canada back then in the nine in the late nineties,
because I didn't hear about it until I moved to
the U s And then I forgot who was the

(12:59):
host one day, um, one one week, but my sister
told me about, Um, I'm going over to my friend's
house to watch this show called SNL. I was like,
I haven't heard of that, and she goes, oh, it's
the show where it's you know, little comedy skits is
how she described it. And you know, there's a celebrity
each week that comes in and is in all of them.

(13:20):
I was like, that sounds so cool. And then a
friend at school had also just been a fan of
the show. And this was back in like the CHERRYO
Terry Will Ferrell, Chris Kitan era, and so it was
all very broad and big and wacky and don't do drugs.
Who yeah, oh my god, I mean the Spartans like
that was like that was like my way in and

(13:41):
you know, and and I was Charlie's there, and that
was my first episode that I ever saw, Charlie's theren
was was the host there, and I went over to
my friend's house to watch it on a Saturday night.
It was the neighbor's house and so I think my
parents like them my parents. It was just a dinner
party situation. And then it was Saturday, and so we

(14:03):
stayed up and launched and I thought, wow, this is
this is so cool and it's live. I mean, it
just it was just so many. It was just such
a get me up to speed on what American pop
culture was because I wasn't super tapped into it growing up,
even just in Canada before we moved, wasn't super tapped
into it because my parents, you know, forbade cable. They

(14:25):
were like no cable, no TV whatever, all that stuff.
And then on Saturdays I would get to watch and
that was sort of my way of like learning and
getting the download on like what was happening in the world,
you know, and did when did you think? God, I
want to be on that show. I would love to
be in that ecosystem of SNL. I mean like with

(14:47):
I mean like pretty immediately, but I never I would
never even allow yourself why I wouldn't. I wouldn't even
conceive of the idea of I would be that that
that I would be on the show, and not for
any representation reason necessarily, but just because I was like,
I don't know, like it's such a big chasm of

(15:07):
like of like knowing of of having the idea of
all I want to be on SNL to being on SNL,
like I did not know. I remember going on. I
was curious about it enough to like go on to
like online like message boards on like IMDb or something
back when they had message boards, um, and it was
just looked into what the audition process was or a
researched like what Will Ferrell's audition process was, you know,

(15:31):
and seeing that, you know, you had to sort of
go through a program, some some developmental program at some
comedy theater too to to get noticed by a scout,
I was just like, that sounds so foreign to me,
and I have no idea what the entry point is,
and so I'm just going to maybe resign myself to

(15:53):
being like a fan from AFAR for the rest of
my life. And I was completely okay with I'd like
accepted that pretty pretty quickly. I want to say it
turns out he didn't have to accept that after all, Diddy,
We're going to get to SNL a little bit later
in our conversation, but coming up conversion therapy and Bowen's

(16:18):
complicated coming out story that's right after this. Before you
go to n y U. You're in high school and
your mom and dad discovered that you're gay, and uh,

(16:41):
tell me about what that was like. And I'm curious
if if it was you know, at the if there
was any kind of cultural aspect to them understanding you know,
your your sexual preference because of being from China, and

(17:01):
just I'm fascinated by that. Can you set the stage
and how they discovered it and what happened? Yeah, yeah,
I might. I might be bouncing back and forth between
some some things that come back to me. But I
came home one day. It was senior year of high school,
and I'd come out to friends sophomore year of high

(17:22):
school at that point. Um, and then especially after my
sister left for college, My sister goes to n y U.
So then at that point she's not there to like
be this you know, liaison between me and my parents.
I mean she because she would sort of keep an
eye on me at school and and sort of keep
me straight I mean figuratively speaking. Um. Uh So then

(17:47):
by the time she left for college, I felt some
like self definition, self awareness sort of kind of happening. Um.
And then it was like, you know, I'm gay. I
can tell my friends. I'm going to keep it a
secret from my parents, just because I knew that this
was something that they would have, um a hard time

(18:08):
understanding because of this cultural element of coming from China,
where um, you'd watch a movie or something there'd be
a gay character or a gay kiss or something, and
I'd hear my dad especially say, this is so, this
is crazy, like that we never we never had people
like this in China. And he and he and he
grew up in you know, in a very rural area.

(18:30):
Um it's I mean like these like this arid farm
in the middle of the desert and and and and
mainly in China, and so um it's not that he
but but but to him, I mean, he sort of
understood as fact that like there were no gay, queer

(18:50):
people at all where he grew up. But it's just
he still has a hard I still have a hard
time explaining to him. No, it's not that they weren't
gay people where he gripped at. It's that you just
didn't know about them, um or they kept it a
secret or something. And I come home one day from
from class senior year. I meanwhile, I mean the signs

(19:11):
were there, the signals were there. I was I was
big into theater. I you know, I most of my
friends were just like I just had a certain sensibility
about them. And so I came home one day, uh,
to an open chat window that I had just like
just it was. It was very salacious, not so clean

(19:34):
chat window that I had open. And then my my
mother had printed out this this exchange and sort of
had me go through it and just be like you
you you have to explain this. And then pretty quickly,
um my dad comes home and it's just me. It's
just it's just the three of us at home. My
sisters off in college, so it's the three of us

(19:54):
just having these long, long, painful conference, painful conversations. I
just had to be like, yeah, this is this is
this is it. This is who I am. And it
wasn't me coming out on my own terms, but at
that point I just had to own up to it
because there had been like suspicions before that, my pay
that there had been things that my parents just kind
of decided to look the other way on. Um. But

(20:17):
this was finally a time where I thought, you know,
I'm about to go I'm about to go to college.
I don't want to keep secrets from them. I've been
found out, but I might as well own up to it.
How did they react? Do you remember I had not
seen my father cry since I don't only my father
cry once, and that was when my grandfather passed away,
when his father passed away. And then I was coming

(20:40):
home to him and my mother crying every single day
for like two weeks and just being like and just
truly feeling that, um, viscerally, I had done something wrong,
that I had caused them pain and pain at a
level that I had not seen from my dad. Um.

(21:02):
And just like you know Asian soap opera, heaving sobs
from both of them and just must have been really
painful for you as a high school senior too, to
witness that. Sure, yeah, absolutely, and and so and so
I mean with that, with that sort of context, and

(21:23):
with the context of them being these two scientifically minded
people and these these immigrants who had like sacrificed so much.
I mean, the idea of me moving to a country
where I didn't speak the language and I would be
like automatically in the minority, it just as wild to me.
Wild to me, and and and I didn't take that
for granted back then. And then they also were solutions

(21:44):
oriented people, and so to them. I mean, my dad
didn't understand sort of the what the cultural forces behind
what conversion therapy meant, but he was he was out
here looking for solutions and he came across a solution
one day. I come home a couple of weeks after I, uh,
you know, the chat window had been printed out. I

(22:05):
came home to my dad presenting to me this sheet
of paper, this this website that he'd printed out of
this you know, the therapist who was based out of
Colorado Springs, UM, who specialized in this, in this conversion therapy.
And he said, we are going to go down there
once a week. And it's a it's a two hour drive,

(22:27):
two hour right each way, but we're gonna go We're
gonna go there once a week, UM, and you're gonna
talk to this man and it will be for eight sessions.
It'll be through the summer. And the ultimatum was if
you if you go to these sessions, then you can
go to college out of state. And I all I
had wanted was to was to leave Colorado for school
and just and be in New York or being I mean,
my choices were between U C l A and n

(22:48):
y U. Those are my final two choices. And then
they had kind of given me this ultimatum to be like,
you can go to those schools if you go to
this this therapy. And again, I mean, but I also
wanted just like put that in context. It was not
like a threat. It was just like, please just do
this for us. I mean it was it was the
dynamic of this was it was constantly shifting. It was

(23:11):
either I was I was doing something wrong or that
they were, or that they were in more pain than
I was. I mean, it was very hard to gauge um,
and for me as a seventeen year old to be like,
what what is what is going on? Um? So as
I just went with it because I had never seen
my parents this miserable. I was like, I have to
do right by them in some way for them to

(23:32):
stop feeling this this pain. UM. So then I mean,
by then I had I had sort of decided to
go to n y U because my sister was there.
And that was also another element of it, because they
my parents would feel better about me going to n
y U because my sister could be there as sort
of this chaperone figure. Um. But yeah, I went to

(23:52):
eight sessions of this um conversion therapy and what was that?
What was conversion therapy like going? You know, it was
actually at banal overall, which which kind of surprises people,
like it wasn't like the melodramatic thing of like electrodes
or whatever it was. It was. It was it was
me and and and the people who to do experience that.

(24:15):
Um gosh, I mean, there's I'm very lucky that that's
not what that was for me. UM. But what it
was for me was this easing into this like framework
that UM, same sex attractions are like un uncouth or
should be undesirable or um are morally sort of wrong.

(24:41):
And you know the first few sessions were pretty standard,
just resembled talk therapy, resembled like even the therapy that
I have. Now I'm like, oh, this is remarkably similar
to what I my first experience with this, which was
under these very wild pretenses um, but that and by
the fourth or fifth session, he had started to sort

(25:04):
of work in this thing of like, okay, let's go
through one by one or or as specifically as you can,
like instances where you felt attracted to another man. And
I was like, wait, I haven't cataloged all of them
like individually, but okay, we'll start with this. And then
he would just kind of try to link those um

(25:25):
moments to some physical sensation like physical sense memory, and
then and then it was it would be kind of
leading questions two, get me to say that I was
attracted to another man because I was feeling bad about
myself or because I was in physical discomfort or pain
or something. And it was just sort of this like

(25:46):
very insidious way of like trying to tell me or
internalize this idea that like being gays, to to have
that your sexual preference is a is a result of
your external circumstances, that a strange association. And so you

(26:06):
go through all these sessions for your parents because you
love them, and as you said, you've never seen them
so miserable. And did you come home and say or
did you kind of let sleeping dogs lie head off
to n y U and just hope that time would
acclimate them and make them become more accepting. It was

(26:29):
the ladder, but then even at the bed there was
like a one inch tall person in my head that
was like, maybe this, maybe this works, Maybe this works.
Maybe you go to n y U and everyone tries
to reinvent themselves in some way when they go to college. Um,
I was like, maybe you try this on for size
being straight, and so UM went to m y U

(26:51):
my freshman year, I move in with my sister. UM
did not do that, did not do the dorms. Moved
in with my sister and thought, wow, okay, I mean
she is the room next to mine. She knows everything
that I am doing, and that's sort of a that's
sort of an interesting experience for me to like go

(27:12):
to college and like still and feel like I'm a family.
And Um it was. But it was a great time.
I mean, like she and I still say, like, I
mean we were great roommates. We were great roommates. Which
was she accepting though of the fact that you were
gay or I mean, how where did she come down
on this? She was put in this very tough spot
to like mediate both sides, um, just to just to

(27:34):
truly be someone who had to like communicate between me
and my parents, whether it was because of a language
barrier or cultural barrier or whatever, like this is where
this person is coming from. And and I think both sides,
both me and my parents were upset at her for
different reasons at various points. I mean, I remember one time, Um,

(27:55):
she knocked on my door and sort of slipped um
or she knocked on my door and she handed me
this book that was written by some like conversion therapy
and quack and I was just like, I don't want
to read that, um. And then she was like, well,
it would mean a lot to mom and dad if
you did. And I remember being very upset at her
for a long time, um, for that specific incident. Um.

(28:19):
So she was kind of she was trying to keep
the peace and the family totally. And she and like
that's its own sort of emotional labor that like I
still haven't fully like not appreciated, but I haven't fully
like thought about that in a way that like, oh God,

(28:39):
like she was in her own tough spot, she was
in her own personal health when when when that whole
situation happened, it wasn't even like this side versus that, um.
It was like my parents sort of expressing some care
and love for me because they had been socialized to
think that being gay was um COINI sent me back,

(29:00):
it was going to put me in danger and all
these different things, and they were just they were being protective.
And I think it's it's hard. It's still hard to
pass out where that protective instinct starts and where the
homophobia ends or the other way around, you know, And
how are they feeling. Was there a moment where, uh,

(29:24):
you felt like your parents kind of adjusted or accepted
and said this is you know, because it's interesting, I've
been writing a memoir and I I was looking back
at how we covered Matthew Shepard and then I interviewed
Jim o'burghafell, who was the plaintiff in the Supreme Court

(29:44):
case that legalized same sex marriage. And it's actually really
unbelievable how far we have come. It's something that we
don't really it just in the last twenty five years
or more when it comes to you know, accepting gay relationships, etcetera,
and really celebrating gay relationships and how are they feeling

(30:08):
today versus you know, your thirty. So this we're talking
about twelve years ago, right or twelve or thirteen years ago?
Have they kind of reached at least maybe an uncomfortable
acceptance or how are they feeling about it now? I
think they have reached it? Um, I mean yesterday. I
mean yeah again, I'm thirty and so uh, naturally they're

(30:33):
thinking about grandkids for me, I mean kids for me,
and so they're like, how would you go about that?
And I'd be like, well, if I wanted if I
wanted kids, then this is how maybe I would think
about this or that, and they and they were like, okay, interesting, well,
and then I brought up I brought up bed Wong Um,
who who I'm close with and who is um who

(30:55):
if who I've worked with very recently, and he and
I have this very sort of mentorment he bond that
I'm I'm very grateful for. And I brought him up
and I was like, you know, he's had this center.
She just naturally came up in conversation and then Um
slowly sort of revealed that he was gay. Because I
don't think my parents really realized and then I was like,

(31:16):
and he has this kid who was in college now.
And then my dad was like, he was married to
a woman. I was like, no, um, you know he
got a surrogate and all this stuff. Um. And then
he was like interesting. So he I mean, he's he's
he's adjusting to it. It's not fully inconceivable to him
that this kind of thing happens in the real world.

(31:37):
But the if there was a moment. This also involves
my sister because I had done this interview with Maureen
Deaf for The New York Times my first season on
the cast of SNL, and she had sort of in
her way, I mean, she was just mooring down. She's great,
but she got she teased out of me these details

(31:59):
about the conversion there. I mean, I hadn't ever shared
that in that on that scale or in that public
way before, and it was just like in the newspaper,
was on the Sunday Times, and I was just like, whoa,
this is crazy. And my first thought was, my parents
are going to be upset in some way that they're
that um, something this personal as being aired out, and

(32:21):
that this is something that they're going to have to
go into work the next day and their coworkers are
gonna are going to know that this is something that
they did or you know or whatever. And then my
sister called me the day after that Peace came out
and she was like, that profile came out and she
was like, you know, Mom and Dad read the profile
and actually they I think they've come to some better
understanding of like what that time was like for you,

(32:45):
and that they I think I think they're moving closer
and closer to just like full on acceptance. And I
was like, wow, interesting. I mean, that really surprised me
that that that was their takeaway. Rather than thinking what
does this mean for me? They were thinking were so
embarrassed or you know, we're ashamed that we put our
some through that, right, you know, on so many different

(33:05):
levels they could have had reactions absolutely, but instead they're
they're parental thought was, oh, what is what did this
mean for our son? And I mean I just that
kind of surprised me and in a very sort of
meaningful way. Um. So I think it's it's it's been

(33:25):
very incremental um over the past twelve years, and probably
like the way that it's been sort of collectively incremental
um for everybody. We're going to take a short break.
But when we come back, the grueling SNL audition process
and that viral Titanic sketch. I think my publicist was
very clear, I'm not here to talk about the sinking

(33:50):
that's right after this. What did you major in it?
N y U? I was the chemist stream major. What
I was? I was? I was. I was a b
A in chemistry and not a b S. Most of
I was a Bachelor in Arts and chemistry. I mean
that that I was. I was. So I was on

(34:12):
the premed track. I was thinking, you know, I got
I gotta hang up the comedy dream because I was
doing like short form improv in high school and going
downtown and like, you know this, this one of my
favorite teachers who I still keep in touch with sort
of was the sponsor of the improv group in high school,
was the assistant director at the theater downtown, and so
like he was my gateway in and UM just was

(34:36):
that kid, And like on college tours, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool,
So do you guys have an improv group here? Like
I was that that guy, UM for better or worse.
But then I go to N y U, and I
kind of put all my social eggs in one basket,
which was to get on the improv group there, because um,
you know, it was very it seemed very seamlessly integrated

(34:58):
into the comedy the leaders that are here in New
York at the time that we're here in New York
at the time. And I thought, m my, U is
gonna be great because I'm gonna have all these friends
who like comedy as much as I do, who have like,
you know, watched this many episodes of The Simpsons or Seinfelder,
you know, like just like Matt TV SNL all of that.
And then I did find those people. And then throughout college,

(35:21):
I was on this improv group with all of these
Tische kids, these these these arts kids who were in
you know, studying film and TV. Yeah, yes, And I
was sort of the odd person for for not being
you know, a Tische kid. And I was like, oh,
I'm a chemistry major. But all of them were talking
about going on to um, you know, do these things

(35:44):
in the industry. And I was like, I guess I'll
I guess I'll go to med school. Like my senior year,
I was like, is this right? And then and then
commencement at m my U was a Yankee stadium. And
then I look around and all of my friends are
like so excited for the next thing, and UM, not
that this is uncommon, but I was, and I was
just like, no, what is what is? What is my

(36:05):
life going to be? Like? I don't think I'm doing
the right thing. And then I I went in for
my m CAT the second time, UM at UM one
Pen Plaza right next to Penn Station here in New
York City, and that was where the testing center was.
And I got to the to the long to the
short answer section and then as soon as as soon
as the cursor blinked, I thought back on this interview

(36:28):
that I read Steve Correll do Or. He talked about
going applying to law school UM when he was struggling
and he got to the he got to the personal
essay section of the law school application and he thought,
I can't do this. I can't do this. And I
and that interview just like flashed in my head. When
I was taking the MCOUNT, I was like, I can't

(36:49):
do this, I cannot do this, and so I avoided
my test, left the testing center, went downstairs, and just
like I think I cried. I think I really did
cry because I was this is this is something that
I I can't follow through on this because I don't
think I'll be happy. And so then UM spent like
the next like seven years pounding the pavement. And so yeah,

(37:12):
I mean, have you ever missed Steve Carell and told
him that story. I've not told him that story. But
I met him when I was still a writer at
SNL and he hosted I think my fourth I know,
but I mean I kept like my professional distance at
the time. I mean, if if I were to meet
him again, and if if it felt right, I would,
I absolutely but tell him that story and say that
it really did kind of give me this model for

(37:35):
like if someone else has done this like I've I'm
not alone in this experience of doubting what I should
be doing next, um and and sort of and going
for this more secure path or something like, there's this
is someone who I admire, who I love, who who
did this? But yeah, next time I see him, I'll
tell him you should. You should? So you do this

(37:57):
podcast with a friend from n y U R. Matt Rodgers. Yes, look, man,
oh I see you? Why why And look over there.
How is that culture? Yes? Goodness? Tell me about the
podcast and kind of how that honed your skills for comedy? Yeah,
I mean, um, I should say that I was doing

(38:19):
mostly improv in college and after after college. It was
a sketch comedy. I dabbled in stand up a little bit.
I'm not I'm I consider myself a dilettant only when
it comes to stand up. But the podcast that we
started with them with Matt was just this very like one.
It just seemed like this very low sticks thing where
we would meet once a week and it was just

(38:40):
an excuse for us to hang out and just sort
of chop it up and talk about what was happening
in pop culture. And then it sort of turned into
this thing where, like there was, it had its own
sort of vocabulary and vernacular. People know what and I
don't think so, honey? Is so basically and I don't
think so, honey, is we take sixty seconds to rail
against something in culture that we do not like, we

(39:00):
think should be addressed fiercely and loudly. I don't think so, honey. Magicians,
don't you ever pull ship from behind my ear without
asking me for permission? And I'm not. You know, slowly,
our our listenership started to build and now it's just
this really, it's this really I think healthy UM outlet

(39:26):
for me to just be myself, because I think it's
I mean, so often everyone in the industry sort of
spins out about where they're positioned, what they're doing, if
they're doing enough, and I mean for me to sort
of just share this like one moment a week with Matt,
who is on his own just like kind of doing
his own amazing things, and he's just such a brilliant

(39:48):
writer and such a talented actor that I that I think,
oh gosh, I'm so lucky that I have this UM,
this other sort of way to sort of like develop
a sense ability and a voice and just know like
what I am like about just in terms of like
how I expressed myself, because he's someone who has like

(40:09):
puppy dog energy and I'm someone who was like who's
a little bit more coolly reserved and catlike, and and
I never I never would have like knowing that about
myself had I not had this relational e gauge to
UM to just sort of discover that. Yeah, and meanwhile,
you're you become a writer on SNL and what two thousand? Um,

(40:33):
so what was that? What was that experience? Tell me
about getting the call and you're hired? I mean, how
did you get that job? I guess. I mean the
SI has done this a lot in the past, where
they will hire writers out of the auditions, and I
had submitted tape in seen and thought, they're never going
to hire me. They're they're never going to hire this

(40:55):
a feminine Asian guy. Um Like. I was like, there's
no like, there's no lane for that there and it's
not it's not like a role that they need to
fill at all. So I was like, I'm just gonna
have fun with this. So I did, like I threw
a bunch of things at the wall, and I was
just like, as long as I think it's funny, I did.
Like my impressions were, you know, Mochico Cacutani and like
it's just the book reviewed at the New York Times

(41:17):
and like who has never been photographed and more than like,
I was just like, I don't And it was just
her like reviewing books and saying threatening that she was
going to punch Juno Diaz in the face or something
like just crazy stuff. I was like, this is never
going to get me in. And then somehow I cleared
the hurdles to do the showcase live in front of
an audience that uc B, and then did the screen

(41:38):
test in front of Lauren, and then got to this
final meeting with Lauren and then I remember it being
so late and that I was the last person he saw,
I think, and he was just like, where are you from?
And I was like, I'm actually I grew up in Canada.
I speak a little French and he was and then
I remember he turned to the producer that was in
the room and was just like fully just kind of
sidelined to me, and it was just like, you know,
the French have great books, don't they. And I was

(41:59):
just like, okay, I did not get this job. So
I left thinking I didn't get it. But then they
called me back into audition again that March of eighteen,
and I was like, okay, I have another shot at this.
Let's go. Did that they said we're not doing a
mid season higher come back in August. I came back
in August auditioned another time with a new set, and

(42:21):
then I was like, either they take me or they don't.
And then and then at that time they were like,
we're not sure what to do with Bowen, but he um,
but here's here's this offer to hire him as a writer.
So I wrote for one season and I think had
I not had that season two write, I wouldn't have
I would have I mean, Laurene even said this to
me on the call. When he called me a year
later in September to tell me that he was moving

(42:44):
me to the cast. He was like, he said that
it was his plan because if he was like he was,
he was like, I knew you were going to be
He was like, I know you're going to be scrutinized
and people are going to keep an eye on you
in a way that's they're going to evaluate you differently
because of who you are. And so I would have
done you with di service. If I had thrown you
out there like without a paddle, like if you didn't

(43:04):
know how this place worked on a creative level as
a writer, then then um, then you would have had
a harder time. And I think that and I think
he's right, Like, I that was really nice of him, Bowen,
I mean like he was he had your back. He did.
I think he did. I really think he did, and
and I think he was right because by my second

(43:25):
by by my second week on the show as a
cast member, you know, I got something on that I
that I had written with some of the writers. But
I knew as soon as the shows, as soon as
the piece got picked to go to the show, I
knew who to talk to for the costume, I knew
who to talk to you for the props, and I
just knew on a production level what to do, what
my resources were. And I wouldn't I would have had

(43:46):
no idea. Um if I had just been plucked out
of you know, the morass and thrown in and every person,
every cast member would benefit from writing on that for
a year, I think so. I think so. And yeah,
And there are plenty of examples of people who did that,
you know, Sadakis, Leslie Jones, Um, Tina right, Tina, Yeah.

(44:11):
I just I just a lot of people who have
successfully modeled um, you know, a tenure there have gone,
have done that, done that thing. I would be remiss
not to talk to you about what's going on with
so many Asian Americans and hate crimes and how horrifying
this has been and how late as a culture we

(44:34):
were to recognize this. I think in many many ways,
Asian hate and and these antequated attitudes towards Asian Americans.
It's it's been a revelation and it shouldn't have been.
But but before I get to sort of the larger issue,
as someone who was the first Chinese American cast member,
as someone who was openly gay on the cast, what

(44:57):
did you know? How did that form your humor or
your feelings about being a part of the show. Yeah, Um,
I feel like I mean, I kind of I tell
people that I came in at the right place at
the right time. Um. And I believe that the Terry

(45:19):
Sweeney in the eighties was the first I think he was.
I think he was the first gay cast member on
SNL first season and he I think was like one
of the only gay one of the first gay people
on primetime television, or not prime time it's s it's SNL,
so it's technically not but but but he um was
what was one of the like the few, if not
only gave gave people on TV. And then um there's

(45:42):
John mill Heiser and I want to say who was
on the show as well. Um, But in my case,
I came in and at that point there had been
this legacy of queer writers and UM and performers too,
with with with Terry and with John and with them
uh Tnitravance, and with Kate already being so established there.

(46:03):
I mean, I came in at a time when it
was very it was not an uphill battle for me
to be like, I need to prove something about, uh,
what you can do with this shows as a queer person.
And so I came in already having a relationship with
some of the gay writers at the show, like James

(46:24):
Anderson and Julio torres Um, and I just thought, wow,
I mean, I feel some pressure. Obviously I would be
sort of dishonest if I was saying that I didn't.
But I thought, I have things I've I've sort of
the wind at my back in terms of like doing

(46:44):
this in a way that I think will satisfy me
creatively and hopefully make other people understand where I'm coming from.
Um with the whole thing of writing there for a season,
I thought, you know, at least, I mean, I mean,
it goes back to what Lauren was saying, like he
would have done me a disservice by like throwing out
there just with me not knowing how anything worked. And

(47:04):
so you know, I I still am going through some
weekly things where I think about how I should present
myself as an Asian person on this TV show. But
in terms of being put out there as an Asian
person on the show and having the Asian person's viewpoint,

(47:25):
I struggled with that a lot. When we um uh
about a month ago after the Atlanta shootings, UM, we
would come back from a hiatus, and it was on
people's minds um both outside of the show and at
the show internally, where people were like, I mean, it
has to be addressed in some way, right, so what
do we do? And then UM, I just heard through

(47:47):
different people at the show that like the hope was
that I would write something for a weekend update as
myself to talk about what was happening. And I was
for just just for a little bit, just thinking I
don't think I want to do that, and it feels
like something I'm sort of being saddled with and I
don't know if I'm in the place creatively to like

(48:09):
make light of it. And struggled with all these things.
But then there was another. There's another right at the show.
We just hired this season Celestium, and they said to me,
you know, if it's not going to be us, then who, like,
you know, if if we don't, if it's not you
and me writing this together, then like who's going to
talk about this on the show? And don't we feel
like wouldn't it be even weird if the show didn't

(48:32):
bring it up at all? And I said, yeah, I
guess you're right, and so we wrote this piece. Across
the country, rallies are being held to condemn the rise
of anti Asian hate crimes. Here to share resources on
how you can help is Asian cast member bow and
Yan all right? Is that? Um? Is that my official title?

(48:52):
Asian cast member? That's how you told me to introduce you. Yeah,
I set your ass up. You know that blood with
some jo be the top. It then kind of takes
this left turn into this place of kind of despair
and hopelessness that I think is honest, is authentically like
what a lot of Asian people are feeling in this country,
where they're like there's no dialogue to have with someone

(49:13):
if if their instinct is to like punch a grandmother
on the street, you know, so it takes a turn
into there and then we we sprinkling some jokes. But
then at the end um it gets stright into and
that's sort of like a nice structure that Lauren I
think likes, and that that's been on the show in
the past. When it comes to like, you know, a
grim story like this in Mandarin, there's a cheer that

(49:34):
goes yo, which basically means fuel up. I don't know
what's helpful to say to everyone, but that's what I
say to myself. Then afterwards, I did feel like there
was this like vulnerability hangover. It was the first time
I was on the show, like as myself talking um,
and I felt very vulnerable. But I felt like it

(49:54):
was something that I was imperfect, but like it was
something that I think, I'm I'm proud of just having
it be realized. From like the beginning of the week
when I was like, I don't know how I'm going
to do this. I don't know how to address this
in a way that feels like it fits into the show,
and then by the end of it feeling like okay,

(50:14):
you know what, like we did something, and we did
something that hopefully resonates or activates or motivates people in
some way, because the whole the whole piece was about
how we sort of have to, as you know, culture,
move past like the cursory acknowledgement of the problem and actually,
you know, actively and do something about it, um in
whatever we we can. And I think I think people

(50:35):
understood that. As an Asian American man, I'm curious as
as you saw this unfold and I had a I
had suspicions that this was going to happen when some
of my friends who are in the medical community said that,
you know, there were slurs hurled at them at the

(50:56):
beginning of the pandemic. You know, I remember interviewing an
Asian American doctor and you know, um, it obviously just
got worse and worse and worse, and and witnessing this,
were you at all surprised? Where you appalled? How would
you describe your reaction to to the kinds of incidents

(51:20):
that we were seeing happened with greater frequency or at
least getting more and more attention. M H. I feel
like I was sort of awakened in a way that
a lot of not just Asian people were um and
I don't. Yeah, I mean, I don't even know that
it's that we're all late to this realization. I mean

(51:42):
I think I think it's I think it's coming in
on time, because I mean all of us have been
socialized under this idea that like, I mean, gosh, I
mean my friend Joel Kim Booster, who's another Asian comedian, said, um,
you know, I get mixed up with another Asian person
only once a month. You pre COVID would be like
even more. But like, just the way that Asian people

(52:04):
are sort of like faceless in Western culture is like
it just kind of it's it's it's a symptom of
the same disease where it's like, you know, we're all
sort of dehumanized in a very quick immediate way. And
so like all my life, I've grown up like having
slurs sort of casually tossed off at me about someone else, um,

(52:28):
when I was with an air shot, like all these
crazy things, and I and and and and what's kind
of terrible is that I was used to it, and
that none of this was surprising to me until very recently,
when it felt like there was a collective rejection of
that from a lot of people, um, in the Asian

(52:48):
American community where we all thought, wait a second here,
you know, because it's something you would become inured to
in a way. Yes, absolutely, and and isn't that like
and like it kind of fills me with a little
bit of shame to admit that, but I think that's
true of a lot of Asians in this country, and
and for and for the people who like had that,
who have realized it thoroughly on who are who are

(53:10):
ahead of the curve. I think wow, I mean like
truly like good for you. And I don't mean that sarcastically.
I mean like I wish I had been as developed
as that earlier on, because now I'm finally at a
place where I'm like, I can say no to this
joke that's being written for me, Um, I can say
no to a joke that's written for someone else, but

(53:31):
that still sort of takes his swipe. I mean, you know,
I've had to do that in multiple environments, um, just
with it among friends, professionally, you know whatever. Like now
it just feels like if I put a foot down
when it comes to that kind of thing, then that
it's more easily understood. Does that make sense totally make sense. Yeah,

(53:57):
Do you think it will change or you feeling that
this heightened sensitivity and understanding and awareness of this kind
of prejudice and discrimination will will help alleviate it. I
hope so, and I hope I mostly just hope that, um,

(54:18):
the discourse sort of turns away from like the actual
hate incidents. UM. And I think I think there's some
collective shifts right now, at least, like among among people
I talked to, we were like, Okay, so we understand
where the hashtag comes from of stop Asian hate, but um,
but it should be more about protecting the well being

(54:40):
of Asian people, UM in the country. It's you know,
because if we're centering the aggression that's being directed towards us,
then I don't know if there's ever going to be
a counter gesture that's going to be strong enough to
like push back against that in a way that eliminates.
It shouldn't be about eliminating. I mean, ideally it should
be about a eminating that kind of uh volatility towards

(55:05):
the Asian community. But I think the way to actively
prioritize everyone's well being and for everyone to be in
a better position is just to make sure that we're
all taken care of, just on like on a material level,
emotional level, you know, all of that. So that's like,
that's like the thing that I hope for and that
I first seen maybe happening, is that we all kind

(55:26):
of we we we we take it out of the
terms of like a hate crime. It's more about it's
not about like the prosecutorial way of like making sure
people are brought to justice for whatever they do, but
it's just about making sure that like people down, up
and down every class in the Asian community are just
sort of solid. I know we have to wrap it up.

(55:51):
I could talk to you all day, but just a
couple of things I wanted wanted to ask you about.
Where did you come up with the crazy icebergskin? Next
week marks the end of a story of the sinking
of the Titanic. Here to explain his side of the story,
is the Iceberg sank the Titanic. Hi, Colin Hi, it's

(56:11):
for having me. This is always a really weird time
this year for me. Thank you for being here and
just tell us what was going through your head that
faithful night. Thank you for that question. Um, you know
what Colin, that was a really long time ago. Um,
I've done a lot of reflecting to try and move

(56:31):
past it. It's one very small part of me, but
there's so much going on beneath the surface that you
can't see, right, Yeah, like an iceberg? Is that your
favorite that you've done so far? It was probably the
most fun on a performance level, just being in the
room and just having it. Um play, but it was
and Dresden's idea. She's one of the head writers at

(56:53):
s n L now and she texted me back in
February she said, for the April tenth show, maybe you
play the iceberg that sank the Titanic. And I was
just like, what, what are you talking about? And she
was like, I don't know, never mind, it's and we'll
we'll we'll get to it in April. Like she had
this idea months in advance because she was like, it
should be somewhat timely because of the anniversary of the sinking,

(57:15):
which is in the middle, which is in the middle
of April. And I go, okay, maybe, and so we
let we let it rest for a couple of months,
and then the week of that show, I texted her
on Monday, I was like, what do you think of
that iceberg idea? Again? She was like I completely forgot
about it. But then we started riffing on it. We're like, okay,
he's there to promote his album. He's there, he doesn't
want to talk about it. He's really grown. Since then, um,

(57:36):
all these things, and I mean the entire time, you
have to understand Katie. The entire week, both of us
looked at each other multiple multiple times, and we're just
like this is never going to be on TV, Like
how will we ever make this work? And we would
just cackle, like laugh hysterically to each other like what
are we doing? This is nuts down to like Saturday

(58:01):
at like six thirty pm, us just looking at each
other being like what are we doing? This is going
to get cut immediately, Like it's just such a big swing,
and like why would Lauren ever think that this would
be that those should make any sense? Then we did
it address rehearsal and it and it did better than
we thought. We were like okay, and then an it
comes to me afterwards and she's like, Lauren liked it.

(58:22):
I was like, all right, I guess maybe we do it.
And then finally the picks come out for the for
the air show, it's in. I go, wow, I guess
we're doing this. And then somehow the air audience was
even more on board than than the dress audience was.
And I was like, this was just I mean, every
star aligned for this and I just can't I still,
I still can't believe it happened. Why are you said

(58:47):
you would be my Oprah? Call it that someone did
and that and you also had that Harry Styles, Uh
that was never going to see the light of day.
And till Harry Styles, like, I don't know you completed
him or something bowen, he exhumed it from from the grave.

(59:07):
And I mean that was another moment where I turned
to him and Cecily Strong, who was with me in
that sketch. I co wrote it with Julio Torres. This
this this wonderful comedian friend of mine who was a
writer there for for several years. But I turned to
both of the Cecily and Harry, and I was just like,
this can't be on TV. It's I mean, but that's
when it's the most fun. Is that, like things that
you never think could could come to pass on the

(59:28):
show end up happening. And then they have this weird
life of their own afterwards. That that's the most delightful
part of the whole job. It must make you question
your judgment though, Like if you think, oh, this is
gonna kill and it bombs and this is the strangest
thing ever and it becomes a viral sensation. I mean, yes,
the inverse happens all the time, things that you're like

(59:49):
so sure about that just no one else is on board,
no one else is even remotely into it, and then
it's and then it's the other way around so many
other times too, And that's that's sort of the best
part of the job, is just not ever getting it
down to an actual science, because I because even writers
at SNL don't know what they're doing obviously all the time.

(01:00:12):
You have done so many things. I mean, is there
something that are you just going to continue to enjoy
growing as a performer on SNL. I know you've done
you do stand up still even though I know you
consider yourself a dilettante, but you still kind of play
in that space a little bit. You did the aquafine
of stuff. Um, you know, if you sort of had

(01:00:34):
to chart out the next five or ten years. Is
there are there things you want to do or they're
kind of moments that you want to seizes or opportunities
that you see yourself doing. Would you like to do
more films, etcetera, etcetera. Yeah, I feel very entertainment tonight
right now. But I'm just hearing I feel like to

(01:00:56):
get this side of Katie kerk Is is actually I
can't believe I'm on receiving ends of this, but I, um,
I don't know. I would love to. I mean, there's
this there's this phrase that I repeat all the time
from Tony Hale Um from VIEP and wrestling. It's fantastic. Um.
I think someone asked him. I forget where, but someone

(01:01:17):
asked him what his best sort of career advice was,
and he said, um, especially when it came to comedians
or comedic actors. He said, instead of investing in a career,
instead of thinking about in terms of investing in a career,
think in terms of investing in a community, because it's
the people you come up with that sort of make
it such a good experience. And I feel I think

(01:01:39):
I'm very lucky to I feel like I'm a part
of a community among people who you know, I would
do like Brooklyn bar Basement shows with you know, five
years ago, and now they're there in movies and they're
writing for shows and they're doing all these incredible things,
and so I just want some I mean, I honestly
want to think of some way to like build out

(01:02:00):
this like way of developing some community around comedians and
especially queer ones, especially Asian ones, whether together separately, UM
that just like is able to come up to come
up together. Because I was talking to be Dwong about
this and he was telling me, like, you know you

(01:02:20):
he's talking to me. He was like, you are probably
the subject of a lot of these discussions where it's
like why did it takes along for an Asian person
to be on SNL or a fully East Asian person
to be on SNL. And his theory is that, like
there is just no inevitable process for developing people who
come out of certain programs, or there's no educational process,

(01:02:43):
there's no um process that like takes you from one
end to the other that is as obvious as it
is um for for certain other people. And so I'm like, oh, yeah,
like maybe there's a way to like build that um
and so I mean, I obviously want to do the fun,
the fun stuff like being things, but I think that's

(01:03:04):
like the that's like this sort of community, community investment
that I think I want to like try and help with.
It's just to make sure it happens more often. Well, Bowen,
thank you again, and again I'm congratulations for all your success.
I'm super happy for you and and not only enjoy
watching you, but really really enjoyed talking to you. So

(01:03:27):
thank you for all your time. Thank you, this is
a wonderful conversation. Thanks for facilitating it. Love me some Boigner.
His podcast Last Culture Aristas is in the I Heart Family,
so go check it out and I might even be
a guest this fall. I'm very excited. And if you
missed any of those SNL clips we referenced, will link

(01:03:49):
to them in the description of this podcast. Next Question
with Katie Kirk is a production of My Heart Media
and Katie Kurk Media. Up The executive producers Army, Katie Curic,
and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate
producers Derek Clements, Adrianna Fasio, and Emily Pinto. The show

(01:04:12):
is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more information
about today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter,
wake Up Call, go to Katie currek dot com. You
can also find me at Katie curic, on Instagram and
on my social media channels. For more podcasts from I
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

(01:04:33):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,