April 20, 2017 • 54 mins
Ina Garten welcomes Katie and Brian to her home on Easter morning for a lesson on slow-cooked scrambled eggs (with truffles!) and a wide-ranging conversation at her kitchen table. Between bites of breakfast, they discuss Ina's views on feminism, other celebrity chefs, and her unlikely path from White House nuclear energy expert to Food Network star. Plus, an unexpected cameo from Jeffrey, Ina's husband of 48 years.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Okay, Katie, we're at your house in the heartland of America,
East Hampton, New York. And why are we here? Very funny.
We're here because we had a very special opportunity to
interview and really spend time with Eina Garten in her
kitchen here in East Hampton, where it all happens. Yeah,
(00:26):
it was really a dream come true for some of us,
especially the truffled scrambled eggs that she decided to make
for us. But we covered a wide range of issues
from her own history. How is she able to pivot
in her career too, of somebody who wrote nuclear policy right, Yeah, exactly,
for somebody who worked for the Office of Management and
Budget writing papers on nuclear energy to being the queen
(00:50):
of cookery. It all began here in the Hampton's when
she bought a little food store in West Hampton called
Yes the Barefoot Contest, which was named after a movie
from the fifties with Ava Gardner. That's right. And then
like twenty years later she pivoted to becoming a cookbook
author and TV host. That's right. And uh, I know,
(01:11):
I think is as warm and gracious in person as
she appears on her television show and she has a
very enviable life, don't you think, Brian, I envy it personally.
So we spent a lot of time, actually the whole
morning in her kitchen, talking to her about cooking, talking
to her about Jeffrey, about her life and her career path.
(01:35):
And I think people can take some lessons from Aina
about taking risks. And we talked to her employee, Ldy,
who probably has the second best job on the planet. Ye,
this is Iinah's assistant, and she has a really instructive
story to tell about how you can kind of invent
your own job. By the way, we spent most of
(01:57):
our time with Ainah sitting at her kitchen table in
joint a delicious breakfast. And so if you hear some
birds chirping or refrigerator humming, that's because we were there. Yeah,
I think a little bluebird sort of perched on my
shoulder at one point. You've been smelling the truffles even
watching Cinderella too many times, find nickel for every time
(02:19):
somebody accused me of that. Well, you're cooking with me, right,
so we're gonna make I mean, I'd like to take
something really obvious like scrambled eggs, and do it in
a different way. So the two things that we're going
to do that are different. One is we're going to
cook it the way the French do, very very very
slowly over a very low flame, and what it makes
(02:40):
is very custody scrambled eggs. Is that? What is that?
How they do it? Well, they do it in a
double boiler, but we can do it in a in
a pan if we're really careful. And they use a
ton of butter, Yeah that's except on this case, I'm
gonna use truffle butter. It's butter that has white truffles
in it, and I love truffles. You do like white ones?
So good? I love her things for you. There are
people who are truffle haters. I don't understand that. My
(03:04):
husband doesn't like do have that sort of Jim sucks
kind of flavor? Doesn't never feel the same about trufal
I ruined it for you, delicious, Jim suck. But there
are these little pots of truffle butter that you can
get there like eight dollars, but it's real truffle shavings
in it. Yeah, that sounds delicious. Through your process for
(03:25):
a second, how do you come up with the idea
for a recipe. I mean, how does it This is
a good example, actually is I start with a remembered
flavor and you know we don't remember scrambled eggs and um.
And then I think, how can I do it differently
so it has more flavor, and how can I do
it so it's simpler. I just wanted to be something
you think you're gonna like, but it's better than you remember.
I know I have some go to in a recipes.
(03:48):
For example, I love the pasta pasto salad with the
peas and the and the pine nuts. But when you
say I just want to make something that I know
is going to be delicious, what recipe do you do? Well?
You know it's funny because I think about I mean,
after eleven books, I've really I mean, I'm working on
the eleventh now, you know. I think, well, I have
(04:08):
have like a thousand recipes, so it must be I
must be making a different thing all the time. And
yet I go back to the same things that I
know that I can nail. And what are the parmesan
chicken with a salad on top? I think it's in
family style, Yeah, it's in family style. Um. One of
the things that we make all the time. This is light. Yeah,
(04:31):
we're wondering. How did you come to work with Aina
U through harassment? Um. I was friends in college with
someone who is the son my lawyer, Dinah's lawyer, and
I wrote a letter. It was this year, my last
(04:51):
spring of college, and I didn't know what I wanted
to do, and so I wrote a letter saying, hi,
and I really want to come work for you. And
I sort of thought I could do social media for
of her. It seemed like a natural fit. And well
what happened was it? I mean, probably once every ten
years we might be looking for someone, and it just
happened to the moment. And what I loved about Lydie
was so, I mean before I even knew her, is
(05:13):
that she didn't graduate from Boden and say I just
want a job. She graduated from Boden and said I
want to have my dream job and that's working for Aina.
And so she just kept harassing her friend Untilie he
called his father and I said, well, how are you
even going to get here? And she said, don't worry
about it, I'll get there from Maine. And she showed
up on her doorstep with an entire social media plan
(05:36):
all laid out, and I just, I mean, we just felt.
And then do you remember the final final straw was
that I said, what what draws you crazy? In school?
She said, my my roommates don't clean up the house,
the kitchen and the house. Why thought you was so hired?
What her brown knows? There? It was there were twelve
girls living in one house. I mean, it's it's in
(05:58):
one kitchen. And I think it's really instructive story about
how you can kind of create your own job. Yeah,
I mean, I mean you're listening for this job. And
also the lessons I think people can take from what
you did to going for it, being persistent, right, not
taking no for an answer, and then being so prepared
(06:19):
and not making the onus on Aina to figure out
all your logistics and to come with the whole media
plan well played. Like, thank you. So all you college
graduates out there who may be listening to our podcast,
all two of you, my daughters, you should take take
(06:39):
this seriously because I think it's a great example of
finding your bliss. As they say, and here we are.
My bliss is truffle scrambled eggs. Come with me. Okay, so, um,
are you in charge of the recipe. So when we
test a recipe, what we do is read every single
word to make sure it's specific thicken, it's exactly the
(07:01):
right word. So okay, I read what was that's a
medium um sautae pan? Right? Do you place some medium
ten inch sautapan over? Like? Well? Ten inch is very
helpful because I wouldn't know how big a medium sawta pana.
Thank you. That's exactly right because you never know. And
then you turn it on low heat. So is it
two tablespoons or three? It says um? Two table spoons? Oh? No,
(07:22):
one and a half tablespoons unsalted butter at room temperature.
Now why unsalted? I know? Um? Do you know? I
think you can control the salt better if you start
with unsalted butter and then add salt because different kinds
of butter have different amount of salt and salt. You know,
I think the two most important ingredients that anybody used,
You're gonna tell me butter and salts. Third, the two
(07:44):
most important ingredients in that cooking every single person has
in their house. Salt and pepper. They make all that
you can taste, like chicken stock that has no salt
in it tastes like dirty dishwater. You put salt in it,
it tastes like full, rich vegetables and chicken and wonderful flavor.
So that's a huge mistake that home cooks make all
the time. They're afraid of salt. And this whole thing
(08:06):
about salt is totally different now. I mean, everybody thought
that salt was bad for you, but it turns out
too little salt has a higher incidence of heart attack
and stroke, and too much salt has so apparently exactly
by the way, I know, what I think is so
(08:26):
exciting about cooking, and the little I I cook is
all the delicious salts you can get. Now, someone introduced
me Bobby Flay not to day dropped tolden salt. Yeah
it is texture of its delicious. And also this one
I love. This is oh I have that you're doing?
(08:47):
Isn't it's just do you have it? It's just a
great hostess gift if you're coming to a Yeah, it
sounds flour decent. It's really really good. Okay, who's in
charge of cracking eggs? Will? Okay? That? So I need
eight eggs? Eight eggs? How's that excellent. Now do you
take the little white thing that's attached to the yolk off?
My mom always did you know that little white stringy
(09:08):
thing that is attacked attached to the yolk? You don't? Well,
now I don't have to you don't. You're free. That's
true what it is. But we always took it off.
Actually when do we both do it? Actually, one thing
I do is I crack it here so you don't
get chills with me. That's smart, she says. So the
(09:31):
recipe says, in a large bowl, whisk together the eggs,
half and half, one teaspoon of salt and a quarter
teaspoon of pepper. Okay, so who's in charge of whisking?
Good nice whisky? Brian, Thanks Katie. How a lot of
whisking practice. How much salt and one and a half
(09:56):
teaspoons of salts on a quarter of pepper? I like
having a recipe reader. So wow, that's a good amount
of pepper. But it looks great. So you have to
be careful when you are. When it comes to putting
butter in a pan, don't you wind it? Well? Sometimes
you want to burn it if you want brown butter,
which is burning waste is Um, it's a it's a
(10:19):
great thing to use like in vegetables because it has
that kind of like a little sort of burnt butter flavors,
which is natty. It's nutty. That's exactly right. That's why
it's called theistte, not not nutty butter. I think in
English it doesn't work. It was interesting and preparing for
this show, I read that your mother had a kind
of a dietetic background and you grew up which she
(10:42):
was a dietitian, not being able to eat a lot
of carbs or butter or where did you find that
you did some research. My mother was obsessive about food,
so we weren't let any carbs, we weren't let any butter.
We had margarine. Um, she just kind of got dinner
on the table and I was wouldn't let you cook,
She wouldn't let me cook, And and her idea of
(11:03):
a great dessert was an apple. That just doesn't work.
That's so funny. So is this the ultimate rebellion? It's
the ultimate rebellion. I'm still working at my issues from
my parents, but that's funny that that she just just
and she felt like your job was to make good grades.
(11:24):
To study and not to help in the kitchen, right exactly. Okay,
here we go. I'm just gonna pour it in. This
is the eggs, including the show. I must have done that, No,
that must have been me. That's how you know it's
real eggs. There's a little crunch in it. So again,
this is very very very low heat. I'm gonna let
it just sit, okay until it just starts to heat
(11:46):
up a little bit, until it's a little warm, and
you'll see what happens in the meantime. What about don't
we need a little brioche toast to put this on? Absolutely?
I think so. Just's sort of very similar to hollow,
isn't it. It is waspy hollow. That's really great. So
I'm just gonna do some slices, and then what we'll
do is we'll put the eggs right on the brioche toast,
(12:08):
will put some slices in the toaster. Let's see. So
what I'm gonna do now is just as it's cooking,
just sort of fold the bottom over the top, and
then as it heats up a little bit. And in
case you don't benefit of being here, which I assume
you don't, we're talking to you on the podcast. The
eggs are just beginning to come together, but they're still
(12:29):
mostly liquid. Was gonna say, you're cheering for the eggs.
I'm rooting for the eggs. So are you stirring? Ye?
Are you in charge of stirring? Sure? Just make sure
that you get the eggs off the bottom of the pants. Yes,
that's where they're going to tend to. Okay, And do
you stir this constantly? Pretty much? A little bit? Yeah? Ok?
(12:51):
And then I think the more you stir at, the
more slowly. Yeah, more slowly. It heats up. And because
eggs are protein, and if you cook protein in a temperature,
it tends to get tough. This is so interesting. I'm
not going to ever make scramp And it's such a
simple thing to do, and yet it really you wit
you taste it, it just transforms. It just transforms it.
(13:12):
And one of the things too, is to cook it
until it's just undercooked, because it's gonna as it sits,
it's going to continue to cook. You know, you've said
something very funny once. You said you can feel bad
before you eat a cookie, you can feel bad after
you eat a cookie. But nobody feels cookie, And I'm
just curious, you know, since there's since people are so
(13:32):
sort of health obsessed. Now, Aina, do you ever feel
pressure to come up with the ways of cooking delicious
things that aren't quite as rench. I do, and I
mean I do anyway, because I don't think anybody wants
all rich things for dinner. So for example, last night,
I did short ribs on a bed of um blue
cheese grits for dinner, but then I did a coffee
(13:57):
granita for dessert. So you balance things, you know, you
want you want things to be crisp and fresh, and
I made roasted broccolini, so it was so very simple vegetable.
And you're doing really well. I'm seeing how interesting is
it's really just starting to like cook a little bit
without actually big those big crumbles of scrambled eggs. And
(14:18):
you know what, one thing I know I was going
to bring up, you know, because I I'm sort of
obsessed with I try to eat healthy and all that,
and one of the things time about that, but one
of the things that they've studies that they found is
you're much more sated if you do have food if
you eat some fat, because it makes you less hungry later,
(14:40):
and so as opposed to an entire box of cookies.
So I start disgusting those low fat cookies have the
real sugar, and they replace the fat with sugar. But
I think that people don't need to be afraid necessarily
of having some some rich food or some fat, as
long as long as it's abound. Right. Okay, how's it?
(15:02):
It's absolutely perfect. See how custody it is. Now, So
the next thing I want to do is put in
a tablespoon or two, depending on how we feel, so
one or two tablespoons of truffle butter. Okay, it's just
I'm gonna have this. Isn't it good? Should we taste it?
Make sure it's okay? Here, I want to make sure
the truffle butter is all permeated in the eggs. Thank you.
(15:23):
Make sure it's and the toast is almost ready. Okay,
let's give this a try, Brian. Okay, when we come back,
we're gonna sit at INA's kitchen table and enjoy the
fruits of her well our labor, I guess. And now
(15:50):
back to our interview with Dinah Garden. So good, so good,
it's so good, and it's just scrambled eggs, but it's
done in a different way and a shall we sit him?
It's almost risotto better and faster? Now would you put
(16:11):
herbs on top of that? I do? Actually I am
Why do you should mention it? Katie? I actually have
some um chives? Because can I just say? I have
serious garden empty? I'm looking garden. Oh my god. The
first thing up in the spring is the chive. I'm
looking out on your garden. You have gosh how many
rectangles out there? Like fifteen or six of gosh o twenty?
(16:34):
And you what do you grow out there? In flowers?
And every year it's different tomatoes, lots of tomatoes. I
love cherry totos. That's so much. Shall we sit? Yes?
Let's so. When I told people in that I was
coming here, after everybody told me how jealous they were.
The second thing everybody said was, well, you got to
ask about Jeffrey. Everybody's obsessed with Jeffrey and your relationship
(16:56):
with Jeffrey and how you have this kind of perfect
storybook marat Well. And we were coming through the airport
in England and the guy checking passports in London um
looked looked at his passport and he said, it's you.
You're the one. He said. My wife is always saying,
(17:16):
why can't you be more like Jeffrey Garten? That is
so funny. But you guys have a I mean, Jeffrey
is still teaching at Yale right and I was the
dean of the business school for ten years and he's
been teaching for a bad ten or twelve. So is
he So he's not here during the week, he's not.
(17:36):
I mean, you know, he comes and goes, but usually
he's night here during the week. Yeah, but seriously, is
that the makes the heart grow? Far from New York
during the week? So we you know, we see each
other like Tuesday Wednesday night. So yeah, it's it's no,
that's not the secret. The secret is that you just
take care of each other and you admire each other
and support each other and and you get that back.
(17:57):
You met him when you were a teenager and you
were visiting your or at dartmoun was we did our homework.
I want to apologize that people hear me chewing, I
feel terrible if you weren't, if he went, I don't
want to eat this. So how old were you? I
was sixteen, I was fifteen. I was sixteen known at
(18:18):
him and uh he came to he saw me walking
around the campus. Um, he said to somebody, his roommate, UM,
I wonder who that girl is. Now. You have to understand,
Dartmouth is all men at the time, so I was
like the only girl walking around and that was much
competition exactly. It wasn't like I was mac Fierce and
walking around Dartmoun And six months later showed up at
(18:43):
my doorstep, which is amazing that he remembered. And Uh, anyway,
you and Jeffrey never had kids, And did you spend
a lot of time with other people's kids or did
you just not have that desire so much? I mean
we we didn't. We decided not to children. Um. I
really appreciate that other people do, and we always have
(19:05):
friends that have children that were close to But it
just was a choice I made very early. A lot
of my married friends who don't have children, or some
of them who don't have children. Um, children, right, yes,
but but they also feel like I did a whole
talk show on this when I had my my talk
show about the kind of how society sort of treats
(19:26):
couples who have decided not to have kids, and were
you ever faced with that? Did people ever to kind
of judge you at all? I never felt like people
did that. People did. Um. I think the one thing
that we missed is a lot of people's friends are
the parents of their kids friends. So we never had
that connection with other people that I see a lot
of that network that network exactly. UM. But no, I
(19:49):
just I never felt judged by it. Maybe people did,
but I didn't notice. But I really felt I feel
that I would never have been able to have the
life I've had. Um. And so it's a choice, you know,
that was the choice I made, you said, saying that
really struck me. You were asked at some event, you know,
what issues do you have in your marriage or how
do you overcome the issues in your marriage? And you said,
(20:10):
you know, we don't have dogs and cats and kids
and things that make it messy. We don't have We
don't actually because I mean we you know, we have
respect for each other. And if Jeffrey and I disagree
on something, he always agrees with me. I let that
reminds me of a toast. Here's to you, here's to me,
And if we disagree, screw you heres to me. You
(20:33):
can use that very ay, it's a very appropriate Easter Sunday,
you can that. I also think one of the nice
things about Jeffrey, among many nice things, is he really
encouraged you to do what you love and totally some
people know this, some people don't ee up. But I
always find it fascinating that you actually were writing nuclear
(20:56):
policy for the White House. It was for a period
of time, so clearly you're a bit of a brainiac.
Now give that jump to anybody, But what what drew
you to do that? And how did how did you
land that job? I was really interested in science, and
(21:17):
I had a job doing legislative work um in an
Office of Management and Budget for two years, where all
the legislation comes to you have to write up a
paper for the president with you know, recommendation, whether he
signs the legislation or not. UM. Scary that they give
that to twenty five year olds, but that's what I did.
But I was really interested in science, So after two
years I switched over to the science and technology area
(21:40):
and they assigned nuclear energy budgets to me. No idea
so much. It was really interesting and I really got
a sense of what I wanted to do and what
I didn't want to do, right because because and you
didn't want to do that. You know, one of the
things I, oh, this sounds so crazy, but the one
of the things I was sure I wanted in my
next life. Because you had to get dressed up. I
mean you had to wear silk blouses and heels and
(22:02):
stock that the arrow when we wore little ties around
our profession. It was such a that exactly, it was
the seventies, that's exactly. I mean, women who wanted to
be taken seriously, you know, got dressed up. And I thought, oh,
I just want a job where I can wear sneakers,
And here I am sneakers and actually usually I'm in
(22:26):
my bedroom slippers. But even better, I'm decided to dress
up for us dressed. But finally you were like, you
know what, I don't really love this. And Jeffrey said something, really,
I think that transformed you. It totally transformed me. And
he's always so encouraging. He said, I came home one
day from I said, I just this isn't me, This
isn't what I really want to do. And he said,
(22:49):
pick something that you think would be fun. Pick something
that would you know, don't worry about whether you make money.
Just pick something would be fun. If it's fun, you'll
be really good at it if you love doing it.
And I said, well, funny. She that I've seen this
ad for a business for sale in the New York
Times and it was a tiny specialty food store for
sale in a place I've never been. And he said,
let's go look at it. And that was in West
(23:10):
Hampton's And when that was the Barefoot contest called the
bare Contessa, but named after a movie with Ava Gardner.
It was named after there was a movie with Ava
Gardner and the owner when she was a little girl
that used to call it the Bear for Contessa because
she was Italian. So she named the store of the
Bear for Contessa. And you you went and saw it,
and you get offered. You made an offer the next
(23:30):
right then and there, and I walked into the store
and they were baking cookies. I thought, I want to
be here. And I made her a low offer, thinking, oh,
she'll come back, we'll negotiate, we'll have time to think
about it. And um. She called me the next day
in my office and said, thank you very much. I
accept your offer, and I remember going, oh, ship, I
(23:52):
was one of my boss's office and said, I think
I just bought a food store. And you did that
for how long? Eighteen years? Wow? A long time, which
was fun, I mean. And and when I stopped doing that,
I thought, I don't you know, I thought it was
time to do something else. I've done that for a
long time, and I thought it's really time to do
something else. But I just didn't know what it was there.
(24:13):
And you just back up for a second in the chronology,
how did you get excited about food and cooking? Because
we heard that you grew up in a house where
food was not special, and I think I was starving.
I think I was always hungry. And you took this
trip to France with Jeffrey. We went on a camping trip.
We had four months with nothing to do and no money,
(24:34):
and we decided the only thing we could afford is
a tent and sleeping bags, and so we took a
four month trip to France. And I remember coming into
in Normandy into a campsite and it was kind of
late in the afternoon, and the woman who owned the
camp site said, I just made I think it was
Coco van for my husband or before or something like that,
and would you like some for dinner. I was like yeah.
(24:57):
I remember thinking I need to know how to make this.
And I came home and after this trip and we
and I just budget the Chounts mastering the art of
French cooking Wow, and started cooking while I was working
in Washington. That's what I would do at night as
cook and then I would have people over for dinner
on the weekends. And I think that's why when I
was doing nuclear energy during the day and cooking at night,
(25:18):
and I thought, wait, this is crazy. I want to
do that. So that's how that's kind of how it started.
I also thought it was interesting that when I know
you were making a decision after eighteen years running and
owning and cooking and baking the coconut cupcakes and still
obsessed with at the Terrify Contessa. By the way, they
were about the size of my head in cocakes, you decided,
(25:44):
you know, I want to I want to do something else,
or I want to transition into some other aspect of
what I'm doing. And you took a year off because
someone said to you, can you figure out what you
want to do? Next if you don't have time to
really think about it, because I think many of us
feel like you can't get another job unless you have
(26:04):
a job is somehow you're less desirable. But that year
off was really important to you. But you said it
was the hardest year of your life. It's the hardest
year of my life because I went from like baking
athasm me guests and having customers coming to the store
and the energy and sort of I always felt like
the store felt like a party, like when you walked
into the party, like the music was on and the
(26:25):
coffee was there, and I'd forgotten that something's got to
give that scene that was filmed in the store, isn't it. Yeah,
So I just I thought, well, for a while, I
tried to figure out what to do next, and I
just couldn't figure it out. And this friend said, you
have to stop type A. People think they can figure
out what they're going to do next while they're doing something,
(26:47):
and they can't. And I was like, Okay. I built
myself in office upstairs and then I had nothing to do,
I mean like nothing. So for a year and out
of complete boredom, I thought, well, very said, well, stay
in the food business. You love the food business. And
I thought, well, people have asked me to write a cookbook,
but that's not the kind of thing I want to do.
(27:08):
So because I can't imagine i'd be able to write
a cookbook, and it seemed like a very solitary thing
as opposed to the store, which is very social and
fun and up. And um, I thought, well, at least
after a year, at least I have something to do.
So I wrote a book proposal, thinking maybe I'll do
that while I'm figuring out what to do next. And
you ended up loving it. Can we pause for two
(27:29):
seconds so people can hear me take a bite of
my breathe delicious? Okay, sorry, go ahead. The eggs don't
make much sound, but the areas definitely does. That was
both affected and totally genuine. So and you ended up
(27:51):
loving the process of writing cookbooks, loving it and loving
the people you were working with. It turns out it's
not a solitary thing because there when we do the photographs,
there's you. You have to have a sense of design,
You have to know where you want to go. The
photographers and the stylists and the remember the first time
right here in this kitchen. Actually, I did a photo
shoot with the food stylist. I thought what a food
(28:12):
stylist did was like I would make the food, they
would um, put it on a plate, and then they
would die. They would exactly exactly, or brush it with
motor roy or somebody like that. And I was terrified
because I thought, how I have to make every single
recipe in this book for somebody to photographs. And I'm
standing behind this counter and I'm going, okay, what do
(28:32):
you want first? And the food style is said, I'm
the one who does the cooking, and I was like, oh,
this is great. And so she made everything in the book,
and the prop stylus brought the perfect plate, and um,
the photographer was just wonderful. And I remember thinking, this
(28:53):
is so much fun and so creative and so interesting,
and you know, I hope somebody's going to buy this
book so I can do it again. And now eleven
books later, well, I guess you're coming out. I've done
ten and I'm working on the eleven. What is the
eleventh going to be called? You're not going to tell
you have to come back? Can you give us a hint?
(29:16):
We have recipes in it? Can I tell you why
I think your cookbooks are so great. I think you know,
don't tell me. I think you acknowledge, unlike a lot
of other people, that entertaining is difficult and stressful and
anxiety producing, and you make it so that you can
(29:37):
kind of go step by step through the process and
figure out how you're not going to be a nervous
wreck when people show up, and the food is going
to be delicious, and it's going to be done pretty
much when people walk in the door. And I think
that's pretty uncommon for cookbooks, which sort of expect you
to be standing over a hot stove while you're supposed
(29:57):
to be simultaneously entertaining people. Is that the well, you know,
the irony is. I remember thinking going into the cookbook business,
what makes me think that I can write a cookbook
when great restaurant chefs write cookbooks. But I realized very
quickly I knew two things that restaurant chefs didn't know.
One is I'm not a trained professional cook. I mean,
I've cooked more than most people, but I'm really I
(30:20):
never went to see a culinary institute c I A.
I never went to really formal training, so I know
it's really stressful for me to cook, So it's important
for me that it's really simple to make. And the
other thing is when you own a specially food store,
you find out what people like to eat at home
as opposed to in restaurants. So you'd like to eat
coconut cupcakes, roast chicken, roast carrots. Um, when you got
(30:44):
to a restaurant, you want something a little more challenging
like Rosa buco, or you want something like um uh,
will you bez which is harder to make at home.
So um, so is that sort of your motto or
your atics? Simplicity A totally simplicity as much as possible.
That it's if it's something that I make and we
(31:04):
that night, my assistant Barbara goes home and makes it
for her family. I think, yes, that was a great recipe. Um.
If if I make something and three quarters of the
way through I get bored with it, it goes in
the trash and never makes it in a book, it
has to be something I'm willing to make again for company.
Let me pick up mine on something Brian said. Because
I do try to entertain and what I find myself
(31:26):
totally pittying out about which is so appealing, and talking
about cooking is getting everything ready at once, and I'm
so bad at that, Like I can do most of it,
but then I panic at the end. Well that's part
of the deal too. I mean, it's not like I
don't either. Jeffrey knows in the fifteen minutes before people arrived,
I'm always going to talk to me, do you do
(31:48):
you try to do dishes that I'll tell you what
I try and do. I try and do something that's
in the oven, something that's on top of the stoves
and they're not competing with each other, and something I
made an advance that um is served room temperature so
that you don't have to think about having all those
things hot at the same time. That's that's good advice.
So it's really about the planning more than it is
(32:09):
the doing. It's if you plan it and you say UM,
and you plan it carefully, you don't end up with
one of and and two things that go in a
different temperatures. But that goes back to the you know
what I call the game plan. And if you do
the game plan and you figure it out so like
you plant your dinner parties like the Normandy invasion, which
(32:29):
are very helpful. Actually, you know, every time people come
for dinner, and I have a whole written list of
like seven ten, put the ham in the oven, seven thirty,
take the ham out, put the broccoli, and then I
don't go at at noon. I'm I'm not panicking. I
should start cooking now. No, I'm not. I shouldn't start
cooking because my list says it starts at five thirty.
(32:50):
That's really that's really smart. It's pretty simple. But it's
such a great way to organize yourself. But you can
also start in the morning if you want to make
like a water or melon and fedan mint salad or
whatever you might do, and you can do it and
put it in the reference. It's actually better because all
the flavors get to get YEA. So beyond the cookbooks
and the TV show, you briefly had a line of products,
(33:14):
both frozen foods and mixes did and then those kind
of came and went well for different reasons. But I
love the products. I was really proud of what we did.
But the companies changed, and um, we didn't. We didn't
love the way the direction of the companies were going
in and I just I love what I do. I
love the cookbooks, I love the TV show, I love
(33:34):
um having a life, having time left off life, and uh,
I just if it's not making me happy, I don't
want to do it. I think that's a really powerful
lesson from your life for other people. You you edit,
I did constantly, and you just think, if I'm not
enjoying this part of my life, I'm going to get
rid of it. If it doesn't make me happy, it's
not gonna make anybody else happy. I think it's um
(33:55):
that really translate. And if I don't have time to
do things gonna say, I think it's this much about
spreading yourself too thin. I went to this meditation retreat.
I know you're learning so much about people. I didn't
really stick, but they told us that the Maharishi's that
he said, what do you think the most important word
for happy life is no, no peacefulness, no discernment. Discernment
(34:22):
isn't that interesting? So deciding what is important, deciding how
you're going to spend your time, And clearly you practice
that by saying I don't want to do so much
that perhaps it'll keep me from doing the things I love. Well, yeah, yeah,
that's exactly I mean, he said that I'd like you
to bring back the scone mix. I'll make some mix
(34:43):
for you and I'll drop it off. That's well, that's
what I mean. I was really proud of those products.
I thought we did a really good job and we
worked really hard on them. But unless the company is
going to stay with the quality of what we wanted
to do, then it doesn't work. But you talk about
how people come to you all the time with this
proposals and you say no to almost all of them. Yeah,
(35:07):
I say no almost all of them. I mean, people
wanted me to design a line of clothing. I'm like,
I wear the same thing every day. They did want
you to do. Somebody want to make a clothing. Somebody
wanted me to do furniture. I'm like, furniture, well, I
think you know what they wanted to do in it,
which I think you see more and more of these days.
They wanted you to be a lifestyle brand, and you
(35:29):
see so many people becoming from Jessica Alba to Race
Witherspoon Paltrow the ultimate lifestyle brand, and that just didn't
appeal to you. I just I mean, I loved as
you say, I love doing what I do really well
and having life, you know, just having a wonderful Somebody
asked me if I would do a line of fertilizer,
(35:50):
did you say, just go to a cow past ship, Like,
why would I do? Do you do you think of yourself?
And it's different from fertilizer to you? Do you do? You?
I consider yourself a feminist. You're a powerful working woman.
(36:14):
I yeah, I do. Um I think that. Um My.
When I left working in the White House, I knew
I was never going to be the head of that organization.
This was the seventies. It was never going to happen.
And the only way that I was going to determine
my own future was to do it myself. And so
I think my decision to own my own business was
(36:35):
part of that. Is that and I think a lot
of a lot of women fight with the existing system
rather than creating their own system. And amen to that, sister,
don't you think? So you can't change the system, and
maybe you can move it a little bit, but it's
very hard to change. And so I've always chosen to
(36:57):
to create my own system in I can be successful.
And I think you were ahead of your time, because
now I think there's a much more entrepreneurial attitude among people,
and obviously we all know whole new businesses are popping
up because of technology, and women are very successful in corporations.
But in the seventies that's not true. That wasn't true, right,
But even now, Uh, you look at the number of
(37:20):
CEOs and the fortune five hundred and spathetically small. If
you look at you know, of course it is women,
and the women's pretty well not right. If you look
at women actually in tech and high positions in tech,
it's actually dis worse and so um, yes, it's gotten
perhaps better, but in many ways the obstacles are still there.
(37:42):
I think there's a lot of subtle sexism too in
the workplace that can be very demoralizing at times. But
I'm sure it's people. I'm saving that from my book
the next podcast. But it's interesting. You're rand is kind
of a combination of the old fashioned and the modern.
(38:04):
You're you're cooking for your husband. Your latest book was
called Cooking for Jeffrey. But at the same time, you're
a powerful, independent female business owner, thank you. So it's
interesting I think that people can can have both and
can can sort of reflect their values in a multitude
of different ways. Well, I think Jeffrey's advice really was
(38:25):
great is do what you love and if you love it,
you'll be very good at it. But it's not it's
not without risk. And we got a voicemail from someone,
It's a very sweet voicemail who wanted to talk to
you about your decision to really switch career. So let's
listen and you can respond. Hi, Katie and Brian. My
(38:45):
name is Kendra. I live in North Carolina and I
have a new listener to your show and love it
so much. And then I heard you were going to
have Find a Garden on the show, which made me
jump up and down. Um I have a question for
her about her relationship with risk. I'm all is moved
by women who make choices that are daring, who are troublazers,
who do things that they might fail at, especially in
(39:08):
the public eye. And so I I would love to
know Dina's thoughts on her journey, the evolution of her
journey of risk and failure when she opened that first
shop in the Hanton years ago and up to now. Um,
I would love to just open her head and write
out what she thinks about risk to inspire me to
not be so free, So please change my life. I
thank you. Guys. We don't want to open up your
(39:31):
head because that sounds very uncomfortable. But you know, I
think people um stand at the side of the pond
talking about what the pond is. Is it too hot?
Is it too cold? Is it deep? Is it all
the things are there? Think murky things under there? Um,
I think that you have to just jump in the
pond and answer to Kendra. Um. I have a very
(39:51):
low threshold of boredom. If I'm bored, I need to
change things. And I just I can't stand being bored,
and so I'll take a risk which heightens your awareness
of what you're doing. It makes you a little scared,
and you know that. I think that's good being a
little scared, because if it keeps you up at night,
you'll figure out the problems. But when you're jumping in
the pond, it's not that you're just going to stay
(40:13):
in that pond. That's just the beginning of it. It's
then you look over there and you go the ponds
really interesting over there. So you go in that direction
and then you go in another direction. And you keep
going until you find the stream that feels right to you.
So it's not a one time thing. It's just you're
just pushing yourself off the cliff and going where it
takes you. And even and I like being scared, and
(40:35):
and and also I think failure is not the worst things.
If something doesn't work out, you learn from it and
it helps you move forward in a different way. Don't
you think I just calling it a failure is the
wrong way to think about it. It's just a lesson learned,
and you go and and then you find out what
worked in that and what didn't work, and then you
(40:55):
go to the thing that worked or the thing that
you liked and go in that direction. You're right, we
need to we need to redefine failure to stop using
the effort. I want to ask you a question about
all those years before you ventured off on your own
as a cookbook writer and a TV star. You know,
(41:18):
you you were owning and operating this shop. You were
kind of serving wealthy summer residents, and you became part
of the community of people who live here year round,
who don't have mansions on the ocean. Did that teach
you something about inequality or divides in the country because
(41:39):
you've been able to sort of traverse both those worlds.
While East Hampton is not just wealthy people with big
houses on the ocean. Their farmers and fishermen and builders
and all the trades that exist anywhere else are here. Um.
I think East Hampton has gotten I mean, the Hampton's
have gotten a reputation from you know TV shows as
being just you know, well healthy people behaving badly. Um.
(42:04):
And so I think it's a you know, it's it's
like any community. There's a broad spectrum of people that
live here, and they all love coconut cupcakes, and so
it's you know, the price of admission to bear for
Contesta with zero you can wander through and have some
samples of coconut cupcakes and and and be out on
the street. Or you can buy a baguette for a
few dollars and have a wonderful time. So they're like
(42:24):
everyday pleasures. It's not like, um, you know, buying a
mansion on the beach. So I think, you know, food
appeals to everybody, and I like that kind of feeling
about it. There's an expression these days. I think my
daughter taught me food porn, and when it comes to
things like Instagram and even the various food networks, there's
(42:46):
something so mesmerizing about watching people cook and make food.
And I could watch some of these videos on Instagram
and we don't love them. Yeah, I mean all day long.
Many people watch these videos. Would never cook what they're watching, No,
but it's just so much fun. Why do you think
people are so Do you think it's escapism in a
(43:08):
weird way? Ina, I think that we all long for
that mother who's in the kitchen cooking for us, and
she's not there anymore. And there's that center where somebody's
rolling out pasta or cooking roasting a chicken, and she's
a doctor and a lawyer and a you know, you know,
doing podcasts. Someone say more um, and so that sort
(43:38):
of core of us is missing. That is mom home
in the kitchen that we're familiar with, and I think
people are coming back to that. And I think Food
Network had a huge amount to do with it. There's
so many chefs, celebrity chefs out there. Do you ever
get competitive? Is there a bitchy side to Ina Garten?
Please tell me there is? Thank you. Brian's true I've
(44:04):
actually never looked at what other people are doing. I
just look at what I'm doing and do the best
I can. I just, I mean, i'd like to. There's
there's an edge there, but is that true? I don't
want to. Somebody once said, you're exactly the way you're
on TV. Your language is a little worse. But you
(44:26):
were reluctant to host a cooking show you had written,
I think your second cookbook, and the Food Network came
to you and you didn't really want to do it.
I mean, I just couldn't you know. I had gotten
used to writing cookbooks. I love doing it. I wasn't bored,
so I wasn't looking for something else. And they kept
coming back over and over again and saying, please, won't
you do it? And they kept upping the offer, and
(44:47):
I'm like, I'm not negotiating. I don't want to do it.
Just lose my number. And they found a production company
in London whose work I loved um but it was
Nigella Lawson's show. But I'm thinking, I'm not jeal a
loss and I can't do that, And and they hired
them and called me and said they're coming to your
house in two weeks to do the show. I said,
(45:08):
I said, I'm not doing it, and I said, oh,
just do thirteen shows. And I thought, well, I'll be terrible.
I'll do thirteen shows and then we'll be done with
it and I'll lose my number. So that two years ago,
and now you have a whole barn on your property
and that's where you shoot your most Mostly what I
do is cook tester. I mean that's my office. That's
where we meet every morning and we test recipes for
(45:31):
the cookbooks and then twice a year we do the
TV shows there. So and we're actually just doing a
new series which starts I think the end of May.
Um please plug it. As as people are going more
towards like food, food, porn and game shows, we're going
in the other direction. And I'm doing a series called
cook Like a Pro, which is all those sort of
(45:52):
little tips you need to know, like how to cut
a butternut squash in the best way and how to
how to do there. It's recipes, but more information than
just tips. It's about processes that interesting would be interested
to know. Yeah, definitely, yeah, because those kinds of tips,
then you know it and it can serve you sort
(46:13):
of the rest of your life, and you have to
come up with a new show. Someone's in the kitchen
with Aina in the kitchen, people are someone's in the
kitchen with and you can some sombled eggs with truffles ambrios.
This is kind of our tradition. By the way, every
thing on every podcast now, the audience demands it. If
(46:35):
we go an episode without singing, they get annoyed. So
give the people what they want. So in addition to
all the things that you're doing, Aina, are there other
things about you that people don't know, issues that you
care about, things that you talk about with your friends
that are important to you. But one of the things
you and I have talked about is um is organizations
(46:57):
that happen. I think elliots with one of working with
the sudden poverty carry actually my younger daughters working with
the centers, And I mean organizations that help people locally
and nationally, like the a c l u UM with
immigrants that have issues. And I think there's so many
incredible support systems in this country, and I think it's
(47:20):
it's getting harder and harder to rely on the government
to fund them, so people have to We really need to.
I've been involved in the Innocence Project is which is
I think they do an amazing job, isn't it. I mean,
my witness testimony is so unreliable and so many people
have been convicted of things they didn't do. And so
that's that's one issue you really care about. Are there
(47:42):
are there others that you spend a lot of time on?
You know, I think there's so many organizations that UM
need help. UM. I mean I support Plan Parenthood. I think, um,
they do an amazing job, and I know they're under
enormous stress now. Um, And frankly, people don't understand that.
I don't know, like of what they do as women's health,
(48:03):
it's you know, it's a very important organization for women
that can't afford good doctors. And the thing that is
so political is a very very small part of what
they do. And the money that they get from the
government already cannot go to fund abortion services. People don't
understand that. But how do you get your news? I'm
just curious. That's interesting. Um, New York Times, Washington Post online,
(48:29):
both hard copy and online. I think it's a different experience. UM.
I still like, I do you know why I just
like the I'd like to see the layout because it
tells me a lot about the editorial choices that have
been made in terms of how they prioritize articles. I
totally agree with you. Yeah, I feel if I don't
(48:50):
get the hard copy, I miss stuff for whatever reason.
Because online is so targeted to my interests, I can't
find the unexpected thing. But I'm like the only one
know I know. Under forty I have the body of year.
Do not stop saying that, well, this has been such
(49:13):
a treat for us. It's really been, and I think
you know it must be. I don't know. Do you
get uncomfortable about the fact that there are so many
people who feel connected to you and admire you so much?
And I think in many ways I feel that your
presence is really comforting to them. Thank you. That's wonderful,
(49:35):
you know that. I know. I love as Brian said,
that you know people how to cook, because when you cook,
everybody shows up. I mean, nobody's ever called and said
come for dinner, I'm cooking and said no, no, no,
I really don't want a home cook meal. But when
everybody shows up, that's when you create a community for yourself.
And so it's not really about the food, although it's nice,
if it's delicious, it's really about the people that share
(49:58):
it with you. Are you and Martha Stewart buds? I
mean we've been we've known each other for a really
long time. Yeah, we used to do parties together. Actually
one time we do benefits together. Really one time Martha
made a ham and brought it on the Today Show
and after the segment, I asked our food crew if
I could take the ham, and uh so I ended
(50:20):
up serving it for Easter and it was a big
conversation piece. It must have been a really good ham.
Was a really good ham. It was a really good ham. Anyway,
we'll speaking of really good hands. Yours is in the oven.
We don't want to keep you too long because it
is Easter and you have to prepare for Easter dinner.
(50:42):
But thank you. I know this was such a such
a tree. Really happy East, Happy Easter, too happy over
whatever your Spring Awakening holiday is, happily, have a wonderful time.
(51:02):
And just when we thought we got everything, who walks
in the door but Jeffrey Garden in the flesh and
uh and in the sweatpants and of course we got
to talk to the man, not I guess behind the woman. Yeah,
oh my god, are you nice to see you? I'm good?
(51:26):
How are you? This was such a treat. So we've
been talking about you, Jeffrey. Yes, we have all things,
these two. This show was going to be called Aina
and Jeffrey the real story. Well, I don't think that
was in the contract. Do you feel like, Jeffrey, you
(51:48):
finally learned to cook be marre to this wonderful woman
all these years. You're kidding, right, It makes really good coffee.
I have a very lame excuse that we were married
so young. With the exception of my time in the army,
I never lived alone, so I never had a chance
(52:11):
to cook. She preempted from the very everybody. Sorry for Jeffrey.
And when you were in the military, by the way,
you know we know too much about you. Learned to
speak THI, Yes he did. He lived in Can you
say something to me in Thai? Well you wouldn't understand.
That's okay. Anyway, Well, we've got so much fun. This
(52:35):
has been really, really a treat. Thanks very much to
Aina Garten for opening up her home and her heart
to us. But it is a beautiful on a beautiful
Sunday morning with the sun coming through Sunday. That's right,
the sun coming through the windows and the birds chirping,
(52:56):
and it was just idyllic. Also thanks to Gianna Palmer
for producing the show, to Jared O'Connell for mixing and engineering,
or Richie for additional production assistance. And thanks also to
our social media Maven. I think that has that on
her card, Alison Bresnick social media, Maven and your cards
bad that's right and right my new cards. And to
(53:18):
Emily Beena for her part in producing. And I should
add one thing, Katie, thank you for cooking us an
amazing dinner last night, maybe inspired by I know a
little bit. You made this leg of lamb and lemon
pasta and asparagus and cupcakes and hala and halla for
those of us who are celebrating the Paysach as well
as the Easter, and you put us all up at
(53:40):
your beautiful house last night. Well, it was a lot
of fun. And that's a train in the background. Everybody,
we're right near the tracks and cars on the wrong
side of the tracks. And Mark Phillips, thank you as
always for our wonderful theme music. Katie Kirk, Mitch Semmil
and I are our executive producers. And remember you can
email us at comments at currect podcast dot com, or
(54:02):
you can find me on social media. I'm Katie Couric
on Twitter and Instagram and Katie dot Kurric on Snapchat.
And Brian you're on social media as well, primarily Twitter, Twitter,
Goldsmith be on Twitter, and best of all, you can
rate and review our show on what is now known
as Apple podcast used to be iTunes. iTunes is so March,
It's so yesterday, April is all about Apple Podcasts. Don't
(54:25):
forget to subscribe to the show as well. That's how
more people can find it. And we'll talk to you
next time. Thanks for listening.
Okay, Katie, we're at your house in the heartland of America,
East Hampton, New York. And why are we here? Very funny.
We're here because we had a very special opportunity to
interview and really spend time with Eina Garten in her
kitchen here in East Hampton, where it all happens. Yeah,
(00:26):
it was really a dream come true for some of us,
especially the truffled scrambled eggs that she decided to make
for us. But we covered a wide range of issues
from her own history. How is she able to pivot
in her career too, of somebody who wrote nuclear policy right, Yeah, exactly,
for somebody who worked for the Office of Management and
Budget writing papers on nuclear energy to being the queen
(00:50):
of cookery. It all began here in the Hampton's when
she bought a little food store in West Hampton called
Yes the Barefoot Contest, which was named after a movie
from the fifties with Ava Gardner. That's right. And then
like twenty years later she pivoted to becoming a cookbook
author and TV host. That's right. And uh, I know,
(01:11):
I think is as warm and gracious in person as
she appears on her television show and she has a
very enviable life, don't you think, Brian, I envy it personally.
So we spent a lot of time, actually the whole
morning in her kitchen, talking to her about cooking, talking
to her about Jeffrey, about her life and her career path.
(01:35):
And I think people can take some lessons from Aina
about taking risks. And we talked to her employee, Ldy,
who probably has the second best job on the planet. Ye,
this is Iinah's assistant, and she has a really instructive
story to tell about how you can kind of invent
your own job. By the way, we spent most of
(01:57):
our time with Ainah sitting at her kitchen table in
joint a delicious breakfast. And so if you hear some
birds chirping or refrigerator humming, that's because we were there. Yeah,
I think a little bluebird sort of perched on my
shoulder at one point. You've been smelling the truffles even
watching Cinderella too many times, find nickel for every time
(02:19):
somebody accused me of that. Well, you're cooking with me, right,
so we're gonna make I mean, I'd like to take
something really obvious like scrambled eggs, and do it in
a different way. So the two things that we're going
to do that are different. One is we're going to
cook it the way the French do, very very very
slowly over a very low flame, and what it makes
(02:40):
is very custody scrambled eggs. Is that? What is that?
How they do it? Well, they do it in a
double boiler, but we can do it in a in
a pan if we're really careful. And they use a
ton of butter, Yeah that's except on this case, I'm
gonna use truffle butter. It's butter that has white truffles
in it, and I love truffles. You do like white ones?
So good? I love her things for you. There are
people who are truffle haters. I don't understand that. My
(03:04):
husband doesn't like do have that sort of Jim sucks
kind of flavor? Doesn't never feel the same about trufal
I ruined it for you, delicious, Jim suck. But there
are these little pots of truffle butter that you can
get there like eight dollars, but it's real truffle shavings
in it. Yeah, that sounds delicious. Through your process for
(03:25):
a second, how do you come up with the idea
for a recipe. I mean, how does it This is
a good example, actually is I start with a remembered
flavor and you know we don't remember scrambled eggs and um.
And then I think, how can I do it differently
so it has more flavor, and how can I do
it so it's simpler. I just wanted to be something
you think you're gonna like, but it's better than you remember.
I know I have some go to in a recipes.
(03:48):
For example, I love the pasta pasto salad with the
peas and the and the pine nuts. But when you
say I just want to make something that I know
is going to be delicious, what recipe do you do? Well?
You know it's funny because I think about I mean,
after eleven books, I've really I mean, I'm working on
the eleventh now, you know. I think, well, I have
(04:08):
have like a thousand recipes, so it must be I
must be making a different thing all the time. And
yet I go back to the same things that I
know that I can nail. And what are the parmesan
chicken with a salad on top? I think it's in
family style, Yeah, it's in family style. Um. One of
the things that we make all the time. This is light. Yeah,
(04:31):
we're wondering. How did you come to work with Aina
U through harassment? Um. I was friends in college with
someone who is the son my lawyer, Dinah's lawyer, and
I wrote a letter. It was this year, my last
(04:51):
spring of college, and I didn't know what I wanted
to do, and so I wrote a letter saying, hi,
and I really want to come work for you. And
I sort of thought I could do social media for
of her. It seemed like a natural fit. And well
what happened was it? I mean, probably once every ten
years we might be looking for someone, and it just
happened to the moment. And what I loved about Lydie
was so, I mean before I even knew her, is
(05:13):
that she didn't graduate from Boden and say I just
want a job. She graduated from Boden and said I
want to have my dream job and that's working for Aina.
And so she just kept harassing her friend Untilie he
called his father and I said, well, how are you
even going to get here? And she said, don't worry
about it, I'll get there from Maine. And she showed
up on her doorstep with an entire social media plan
(05:36):
all laid out, and I just, I mean, we just felt.
And then do you remember the final final straw was
that I said, what what draws you crazy? In school?
She said, my my roommates don't clean up the house,
the kitchen and the house. Why thought you was so hired?
What her brown knows? There? It was there were twelve
girls living in one house. I mean, it's it's in
(05:58):
one kitchen. And I think it's really instructive story about
how you can kind of create your own job. Yeah,
I mean, I mean you're listening for this job. And
also the lessons I think people can take from what
you did to going for it, being persistent, right, not
taking no for an answer, and then being so prepared
(06:19):
and not making the onus on Aina to figure out
all your logistics and to come with the whole media
plan well played. Like, thank you. So all you college
graduates out there who may be listening to our podcast,
all two of you, my daughters, you should take take
(06:39):
this seriously because I think it's a great example of
finding your bliss. As they say, and here we are.
My bliss is truffle scrambled eggs. Come with me. Okay, so, um,
are you in charge of the recipe. So when we
test a recipe, what we do is read every single
word to make sure it's specific thicken, it's exactly the
(07:01):
right word. So okay, I read what was that's a
medium um sautae pan? Right? Do you place some medium
ten inch sautapan over? Like? Well? Ten inch is very
helpful because I wouldn't know how big a medium sawta pana.
Thank you. That's exactly right because you never know. And
then you turn it on low heat. So is it
two tablespoons or three? It says um? Two table spoons? Oh? No,
(07:22):
one and a half tablespoons unsalted butter at room temperature.
Now why unsalted? I know? Um? Do you know? I
think you can control the salt better if you start
with unsalted butter and then add salt because different kinds
of butter have different amount of salt and salt. You know,
I think the two most important ingredients that anybody used,
You're gonna tell me butter and salts. Third, the two
(07:44):
most important ingredients in that cooking every single person has
in their house. Salt and pepper. They make all that
you can taste, like chicken stock that has no salt
in it tastes like dirty dishwater. You put salt in it,
it tastes like full, rich vegetables and chicken and wonderful flavor.
So that's a huge mistake that home cooks make all
the time. They're afraid of salt. And this whole thing
(08:06):
about salt is totally different now. I mean, everybody thought
that salt was bad for you, but it turns out
too little salt has a higher incidence of heart attack
and stroke, and too much salt has so apparently exactly
by the way, I know, what I think is so
(08:26):
exciting about cooking, and the little I I cook is
all the delicious salts you can get. Now, someone introduced
me Bobby Flay not to day dropped tolden salt. Yeah
it is texture of its delicious. And also this one
I love. This is oh I have that you're doing?
(08:47):
Isn't it's just do you have it? It's just a
great hostess gift if you're coming to a Yeah, it
sounds flour decent. It's really really good. Okay, who's in
charge of cracking eggs? Will? Okay? That? So I need
eight eggs? Eight eggs? How's that excellent. Now do you
take the little white thing that's attached to the yolk off?
My mom always did you know that little white stringy
(09:08):
thing that is attacked attached to the yolk? You don't? Well,
now I don't have to you don't. You're free. That's
true what it is. But we always took it off.
Actually when do we both do it? Actually, one thing
I do is I crack it here so you don't
get chills with me. That's smart, she says. So the
(09:31):
recipe says, in a large bowl, whisk together the eggs,
half and half, one teaspoon of salt and a quarter
teaspoon of pepper. Okay, so who's in charge of whisking?
Good nice whisky? Brian, Thanks Katie. How a lot of
whisking practice. How much salt and one and a half
(09:56):
teaspoons of salts on a quarter of pepper? I like
having a recipe reader. So wow, that's a good amount
of pepper. But it looks great. So you have to
be careful when you are. When it comes to putting
butter in a pan, don't you wind it? Well? Sometimes
you want to burn it if you want brown butter,
which is burning waste is Um, it's a it's a
(10:19):
great thing to use like in vegetables because it has
that kind of like a little sort of burnt butter flavors,
which is natty. It's nutty. That's exactly right. That's why
it's called theistte, not not nutty butter. I think in
English it doesn't work. It was interesting and preparing for
this show, I read that your mother had a kind
of a dietetic background and you grew up which she
(10:42):
was a dietitian, not being able to eat a lot
of carbs or butter or where did you find that
you did some research. My mother was obsessive about food,
so we weren't let any carbs, we weren't let any butter.
We had margarine. Um, she just kind of got dinner
on the table and I was wouldn't let you cook,
She wouldn't let me cook, And and her idea of
(11:03):
a great dessert was an apple. That just doesn't work.
That's so funny. So is this the ultimate rebellion? It's
the ultimate rebellion. I'm still working at my issues from
my parents, but that's funny that that she just just
and she felt like your job was to make good grades.
(11:24):
To study and not to help in the kitchen, right exactly. Okay,
here we go. I'm just gonna pour it in. This
is the eggs, including the show. I must have done that, No,
that must have been me. That's how you know it's
real eggs. There's a little crunch in it. So again,
this is very very very low heat. I'm gonna let
it just sit, okay until it just starts to heat
(11:46):
up a little bit, until it's a little warm, and
you'll see what happens in the meantime. What about don't
we need a little brioche toast to put this on? Absolutely?
I think so. Just's sort of very similar to hollow,
isn't it. It is waspy hollow. That's really great. So
I'm just gonna do some slices, and then what we'll
do is we'll put the eggs right on the brioche toast,
(12:08):
will put some slices in the toaster. Let's see. So
what I'm gonna do now is just as it's cooking,
just sort of fold the bottom over the top, and
then as it heats up a little bit. And in
case you don't benefit of being here, which I assume
you don't, we're talking to you on the podcast. The
eggs are just beginning to come together, but they're still
(12:29):
mostly liquid. Was gonna say, you're cheering for the eggs.
I'm rooting for the eggs. So are you stirring? Ye?
Are you in charge of stirring? Sure? Just make sure
that you get the eggs off the bottom of the pants. Yes,
that's where they're going to tend to. Okay, And do
you stir this constantly? Pretty much? A little bit? Yeah? Ok?
(12:51):
And then I think the more you stir at, the
more slowly. Yeah, more slowly. It heats up. And because
eggs are protein, and if you cook protein in a temperature,
it tends to get tough. This is so interesting. I'm
not going to ever make scramp And it's such a
simple thing to do, and yet it really you wit
you taste it, it just transforms. It just transforms it.
(13:12):
And one of the things too, is to cook it
until it's just undercooked, because it's gonna as it sits,
it's going to continue to cook. You know, you've said
something very funny once. You said you can feel bad
before you eat a cookie, you can feel bad after
you eat a cookie. But nobody feels cookie, And I'm
just curious, you know, since there's since people are so
(13:32):
sort of health obsessed. Now, Aina, do you ever feel
pressure to come up with the ways of cooking delicious
things that aren't quite as rench. I do, and I
mean I do anyway, because I don't think anybody wants
all rich things for dinner. So for example, last night,
I did short ribs on a bed of um blue
cheese grits for dinner, but then I did a coffee
(13:57):
granita for dessert. So you balance things, you know, you
want you want things to be crisp and fresh, and
I made roasted broccolini, so it was so very simple vegetable.
And you're doing really well. I'm seeing how interesting is
it's really just starting to like cook a little bit
without actually big those big crumbles of scrambled eggs. And
(14:18):
you know what, one thing I know I was going
to bring up, you know, because I I'm sort of
obsessed with I try to eat healthy and all that,
and one of the things time about that, but one
of the things that they've studies that they found is
you're much more sated if you do have food if
you eat some fat, because it makes you less hungry later,
(14:40):
and so as opposed to an entire box of cookies.
So I start disgusting those low fat cookies have the
real sugar, and they replace the fat with sugar. But
I think that people don't need to be afraid necessarily
of having some some rich food or some fat, as
long as long as it's abound. Right. Okay, how's it?
(15:02):
It's absolutely perfect. See how custody it is. Now, So
the next thing I want to do is put in
a tablespoon or two, depending on how we feel, so
one or two tablespoons of truffle butter. Okay, it's just
I'm gonna have this. Isn't it good? Should we taste it?
Make sure it's okay? Here, I want to make sure
the truffle butter is all permeated in the eggs. Thank you.
(15:23):
Make sure it's and the toast is almost ready. Okay,
let's give this a try, Brian. Okay, when we come back,
we're gonna sit at INA's kitchen table and enjoy the
fruits of her well our labor, I guess. And now
(15:50):
back to our interview with Dinah Garden. So good, so good,
it's so good, and it's just scrambled eggs, but it's
done in a different way and a shall we sit him?
It's almost risotto better and faster? Now would you put
(16:11):
herbs on top of that? I do? Actually I am
Why do you should mention it? Katie? I actually have
some um chives? Because can I just say? I have
serious garden empty? I'm looking garden. Oh my god. The
first thing up in the spring is the chive. I'm
looking out on your garden. You have gosh how many
rectangles out there? Like fifteen or six of gosh o twenty?
(16:34):
And you what do you grow out there? In flowers?
And every year it's different tomatoes, lots of tomatoes. I
love cherry totos. That's so much. Shall we sit? Yes?
Let's so. When I told people in that I was
coming here, after everybody told me how jealous they were.
The second thing everybody said was, well, you got to
ask about Jeffrey. Everybody's obsessed with Jeffrey and your relationship
(16:56):
with Jeffrey and how you have this kind of perfect
storybook marat Well. And we were coming through the airport
in England and the guy checking passports in London um
looked looked at his passport and he said, it's you.
You're the one. He said. My wife is always saying,
(17:16):
why can't you be more like Jeffrey Garten? That is
so funny. But you guys have a I mean, Jeffrey
is still teaching at Yale right and I was the
dean of the business school for ten years and he's
been teaching for a bad ten or twelve. So is
he So he's not here during the week, he's not.
(17:36):
I mean, you know, he comes and goes, but usually
he's night here during the week. Yeah, but seriously, is
that the makes the heart grow? Far from New York
during the week? So we you know, we see each
other like Tuesday Wednesday night. So yeah, it's it's no,
that's not the secret. The secret is that you just
take care of each other and you admire each other
and support each other and and you get that back.
(17:57):
You met him when you were a teenager and you
were visiting your or at dartmoun was we did our homework.
I want to apologize that people hear me chewing, I
feel terrible if you weren't, if he went, I don't
want to eat this. So how old were you? I
was sixteen, I was fifteen. I was sixteen known at
(18:18):
him and uh he came to he saw me walking
around the campus. Um, he said to somebody, his roommate, UM,
I wonder who that girl is. Now. You have to understand,
Dartmouth is all men at the time, so I was
like the only girl walking around and that was much
competition exactly. It wasn't like I was mac Fierce and
walking around Dartmoun And six months later showed up at
(18:43):
my doorstep, which is amazing that he remembered. And Uh, anyway,
you and Jeffrey never had kids, And did you spend
a lot of time with other people's kids or did
you just not have that desire so much? I mean
we we didn't. We decided not to children. Um. I
really appreciate that other people do, and we always have
(19:05):
friends that have children that were close to But it
just was a choice I made very early. A lot
of my married friends who don't have children, or some
of them who don't have children. Um, children, right, yes,
but but they also feel like I did a whole
talk show on this when I had my my talk
show about the kind of how society sort of treats
(19:26):
couples who have decided not to have kids, and were
you ever faced with that? Did people ever to kind
of judge you at all? I never felt like people
did that. People did. Um. I think the one thing
that we missed is a lot of people's friends are
the parents of their kids friends. So we never had
that connection with other people that I see a lot
of that network that network exactly. UM. But no, I
(19:49):
just I never felt judged by it. Maybe people did,
but I didn't notice. But I really felt I feel
that I would never have been able to have the
life I've had. Um. And so it's a choice, you know,
that was the choice I made, you said, saying that
really struck me. You were asked at some event, you know,
what issues do you have in your marriage or how
do you overcome the issues in your marriage? And you said,
(20:10):
you know, we don't have dogs and cats and kids
and things that make it messy. We don't have We
don't actually because I mean we you know, we have
respect for each other. And if Jeffrey and I disagree
on something, he always agrees with me. I let that
reminds me of a toast. Here's to you, here's to me,
And if we disagree, screw you heres to me. You
(20:33):
can use that very ay, it's a very appropriate Easter Sunday,
you can that. I also think one of the nice
things about Jeffrey, among many nice things, is he really
encouraged you to do what you love and totally some
people know this, some people don't ee up. But I
always find it fascinating that you actually were writing nuclear
(20:56):
policy for the White House. It was for a period
of time, so clearly you're a bit of a brainiac.
Now give that jump to anybody, But what what drew
you to do that? And how did how did you
land that job? I was really interested in science, and
(21:17):
I had a job doing legislative work um in an
Office of Management and Budget for two years, where all
the legislation comes to you have to write up a
paper for the president with you know, recommendation, whether he
signs the legislation or not. UM. Scary that they give
that to twenty five year olds, but that's what I did.
But I was really interested in science, So after two
years I switched over to the science and technology area
(21:40):
and they assigned nuclear energy budgets to me. No idea
so much. It was really interesting and I really got
a sense of what I wanted to do and what
I didn't want to do, right because because and you
didn't want to do that. You know, one of the
things I, oh, this sounds so crazy, but the one
of the things I was sure I wanted in my
next life. Because you had to get dressed up. I
mean you had to wear silk blouses and heels and
(22:02):
stock that the arrow when we wore little ties around
our profession. It was such a that exactly, it was
the seventies, that's exactly. I mean, women who wanted to
be taken seriously, you know, got dressed up. And I thought, oh,
I just want a job where I can wear sneakers,
And here I am sneakers and actually usually I'm in
(22:26):
my bedroom slippers. But even better, I'm decided to dress
up for us dressed. But finally you were like, you
know what, I don't really love this. And Jeffrey said something, really,
I think that transformed you. It totally transformed me. And
he's always so encouraging. He said, I came home one
day from I said, I just this isn't me, This
isn't what I really want to do. And he said,
(22:49):
pick something that you think would be fun. Pick something
that would you know, don't worry about whether you make money.
Just pick something would be fun. If it's fun, you'll
be really good at it if you love doing it.
And I said, well, funny. She that I've seen this
ad for a business for sale in the New York
Times and it was a tiny specialty food store for
sale in a place I've never been. And he said,
let's go look at it. And that was in West
(23:10):
Hampton's And when that was the Barefoot contest called the
bare Contessa, but named after a movie with Ava Gardner.
It was named after there was a movie with Ava
Gardner and the owner when she was a little girl
that used to call it the Bear for Contessa because
she was Italian. So she named the store of the
Bear for Contessa. And you you went and saw it,
and you get offered. You made an offer the next
(23:30):
right then and there, and I walked into the store
and they were baking cookies. I thought, I want to
be here. And I made her a low offer, thinking, oh,
she'll come back, we'll negotiate, we'll have time to think
about it. And um. She called me the next day
in my office and said, thank you very much. I
accept your offer, and I remember going, oh, ship, I
(23:52):
was one of my boss's office and said, I think
I just bought a food store. And you did that
for how long? Eighteen years? Wow? A long time, which
was fun, I mean. And and when I stopped doing that,
I thought, I don't you know, I thought it was
time to do something else. I've done that for a
long time, and I thought it's really time to do
something else. But I just didn't know what it was there.
(24:13):
And you just back up for a second in the chronology,
how did you get excited about food and cooking? Because
we heard that you grew up in a house where
food was not special, and I think I was starving.
I think I was always hungry. And you took this
trip to France with Jeffrey. We went on a camping trip.
We had four months with nothing to do and no money,
(24:34):
and we decided the only thing we could afford is
a tent and sleeping bags, and so we took a
four month trip to France. And I remember coming into
in Normandy into a campsite and it was kind of
late in the afternoon, and the woman who owned the
camp site said, I just made I think it was
Coco van for my husband or before or something like that,
and would you like some for dinner. I was like yeah.
(24:57):
I remember thinking I need to know how to make this.
And I came home and after this trip and we
and I just budget the Chounts mastering the art of
French cooking Wow, and started cooking while I was working
in Washington. That's what I would do at night as
cook and then I would have people over for dinner
on the weekends. And I think that's why when I
was doing nuclear energy during the day and cooking at night,
(25:18):
and I thought, wait, this is crazy. I want to
do that. So that's how that's kind of how it started.
I also thought it was interesting that when I know
you were making a decision after eighteen years running and
owning and cooking and baking the coconut cupcakes and still
obsessed with at the Terrify Contessa. By the way, they
were about the size of my head in cocakes, you decided,
(25:44):
you know, I want to I want to do something else,
or I want to transition into some other aspect of
what I'm doing. And you took a year off because
someone said to you, can you figure out what you
want to do? Next if you don't have time to
really think about it, because I think many of us
feel like you can't get another job unless you have
(26:04):
a job is somehow you're less desirable. But that year
off was really important to you. But you said it
was the hardest year of your life. It's the hardest
year of my life because I went from like baking
athasm me guests and having customers coming to the store
and the energy and sort of I always felt like
the store felt like a party, like when you walked
into the party, like the music was on and the
(26:25):
coffee was there, and I'd forgotten that something's got to
give that scene that was filmed in the store, isn't it. Yeah,
So I just I thought, well, for a while, I
tried to figure out what to do next, and I
just couldn't figure it out. And this friend said, you
have to stop type A. People think they can figure
out what they're going to do next while they're doing something,
(26:47):
and they can't. And I was like, Okay. I built
myself in office upstairs and then I had nothing to do,
I mean like nothing. So for a year and out
of complete boredom, I thought, well, very said, well, stay
in the food business. You love the food business. And
I thought, well, people have asked me to write a cookbook,
but that's not the kind of thing I want to do.
(27:08):
So because I can't imagine i'd be able to write
a cookbook, and it seemed like a very solitary thing
as opposed to the store, which is very social and
fun and up. And um, I thought, well, at least
after a year, at least I have something to do.
So I wrote a book proposal, thinking maybe I'll do
that while I'm figuring out what to do next. And
you ended up loving it. Can we pause for two
(27:29):
seconds so people can hear me take a bite of
my breathe delicious? Okay, sorry, go ahead. The eggs don't
make much sound, but the areas definitely does. That was
both affected and totally genuine. So and you ended up
(27:51):
loving the process of writing cookbooks, loving it and loving
the people you were working with. It turns out it's
not a solitary thing because there when we do the photographs,
there's you. You have to have a sense of design,
You have to know where you want to go. The
photographers and the stylists and the remember the first time
right here in this kitchen. Actually, I did a photo
shoot with the food stylist. I thought what a food
(28:12):
stylist did was like I would make the food, they
would um, put it on a plate, and then they
would die. They would exactly exactly, or brush it with
motor roy or somebody like that. And I was terrified
because I thought, how I have to make every single
recipe in this book for somebody to photographs. And I'm
standing behind this counter and I'm going, okay, what do
(28:32):
you want first? And the food style is said, I'm
the one who does the cooking, and I was like, oh,
this is great. And so she made everything in the book,
and the prop stylus brought the perfect plate, and um,
the photographer was just wonderful. And I remember thinking, this
(28:53):
is so much fun and so creative and so interesting,
and you know, I hope somebody's going to buy this
book so I can do it again. And now eleven
books later, well, I guess you're coming out. I've done
ten and I'm working on the eleven. What is the
eleventh going to be called? You're not going to tell
you have to come back? Can you give us a hint?
(29:16):
We have recipes in it? Can I tell you why
I think your cookbooks are so great. I think you know,
don't tell me. I think you acknowledge, unlike a lot
of other people, that entertaining is difficult and stressful and
anxiety producing, and you make it so that you can
(29:37):
kind of go step by step through the process and
figure out how you're not going to be a nervous
wreck when people show up, and the food is going
to be delicious, and it's going to be done pretty
much when people walk in the door. And I think
that's pretty uncommon for cookbooks, which sort of expect you
to be standing over a hot stove while you're supposed
(29:57):
to be simultaneously entertaining people. Is that the well, you know,
the irony is. I remember thinking going into the cookbook business,
what makes me think that I can write a cookbook
when great restaurant chefs write cookbooks. But I realized very
quickly I knew two things that restaurant chefs didn't know.
One is I'm not a trained professional cook. I mean,
I've cooked more than most people, but I'm really I
(30:20):
never went to see a culinary institute c I A.
I never went to really formal training, so I know
it's really stressful for me to cook, So it's important
for me that it's really simple to make. And the
other thing is when you own a specially food store,
you find out what people like to eat at home
as opposed to in restaurants. So you'd like to eat
coconut cupcakes, roast chicken, roast carrots. Um, when you got
(30:44):
to a restaurant, you want something a little more challenging
like Rosa buco, or you want something like um uh,
will you bez which is harder to make at home.
So um, so is that sort of your motto or
your atics? Simplicity A totally simplicity as much as possible.
That it's if it's something that I make and we
(31:04):
that night, my assistant Barbara goes home and makes it
for her family. I think, yes, that was a great recipe. Um.
If if I make something and three quarters of the
way through I get bored with it, it goes in
the trash and never makes it in a book, it
has to be something I'm willing to make again for company.
Let me pick up mine on something Brian said. Because
I do try to entertain and what I find myself
(31:26):
totally pittying out about which is so appealing, and talking
about cooking is getting everything ready at once, and I'm
so bad at that, Like I can do most of it,
but then I panic at the end. Well that's part
of the deal too. I mean, it's not like I
don't either. Jeffrey knows in the fifteen minutes before people arrived,
I'm always going to talk to me, do you do
(31:48):
you try to do dishes that I'll tell you what
I try and do. I try and do something that's
in the oven, something that's on top of the stoves
and they're not competing with each other, and something I
made an advance that um is served room temperature so
that you don't have to think about having all those
things hot at the same time. That's that's good advice.
So it's really about the planning more than it is
(32:09):
the doing. It's if you plan it and you say UM,
and you plan it carefully, you don't end up with
one of and and two things that go in a
different temperatures. But that goes back to the you know
what I call the game plan. And if you do
the game plan and you figure it out so like
you plant your dinner parties like the Normandy invasion, which
(32:29):
are very helpful. Actually, you know, every time people come
for dinner, and I have a whole written list of
like seven ten, put the ham in the oven, seven thirty,
take the ham out, put the broccoli, and then I
don't go at at noon. I'm I'm not panicking. I
should start cooking now. No, I'm not. I shouldn't start
cooking because my list says it starts at five thirty.
(32:50):
That's really that's really smart. It's pretty simple. But it's
such a great way to organize yourself. But you can
also start in the morning if you want to make
like a water or melon and fedan mint salad or
whatever you might do, and you can do it and
put it in the reference. It's actually better because all
the flavors get to get YEA. So beyond the cookbooks
and the TV show, you briefly had a line of products,
(33:14):
both frozen foods and mixes did and then those kind
of came and went well for different reasons. But I
love the products. I was really proud of what we did.
But the companies changed, and um, we didn't. We didn't
love the way the direction of the companies were going
in and I just I love what I do. I
love the cookbooks, I love the TV show, I love
(33:34):
um having a life, having time left off life, and uh,
I just if it's not making me happy, I don't
want to do it. I think that's a really powerful
lesson from your life for other people. You you edit,
I did constantly, and you just think, if I'm not
enjoying this part of my life, I'm going to get
rid of it. If it doesn't make me happy, it's
not gonna make anybody else happy. I think it's um
(33:55):
that really translate. And if I don't have time to
do things gonna say, I think it's this much about
spreading yourself too thin. I went to this meditation retreat.
I know you're learning so much about people. I didn't
really stick, but they told us that the Maharishi's that
he said, what do you think the most important word
for happy life is no, no peacefulness, no discernment. Discernment
(34:22):
isn't that interesting? So deciding what is important, deciding how
you're going to spend your time, And clearly you practice
that by saying I don't want to do so much
that perhaps it'll keep me from doing the things I love. Well, yeah, yeah,
that's exactly I mean, he said that I'd like you
to bring back the scone mix. I'll make some mix
(34:43):
for you and I'll drop it off. That's well, that's
what I mean. I was really proud of those products.
I thought we did a really good job and we
worked really hard on them. But unless the company is
going to stay with the quality of what we wanted
to do, then it doesn't work. But you talk about
how people come to you all the time with this
proposals and you say no to almost all of them. Yeah,
(35:07):
I say no almost all of them. I mean, people
wanted me to design a line of clothing. I'm like,
I wear the same thing every day. They did want
you to do. Somebody want to make a clothing. Somebody
wanted me to do furniture. I'm like, furniture, well, I
think you know what they wanted to do in it,
which I think you see more and more of these days.
They wanted you to be a lifestyle brand, and you
(35:29):
see so many people becoming from Jessica Alba to Race
Witherspoon Paltrow the ultimate lifestyle brand, and that just didn't
appeal to you. I just I mean, I loved as
you say, I love doing what I do really well
and having life, you know, just having a wonderful Somebody
asked me if I would do a line of fertilizer,
(35:50):
did you say, just go to a cow past ship, Like,
why would I do? Do you do you think of yourself?
And it's different from fertilizer to you? Do you do? You?
I consider yourself a feminist. You're a powerful working woman.
(36:14):
I yeah, I do. Um I think that. Um My.
When I left working in the White House, I knew
I was never going to be the head of that organization.
This was the seventies. It was never going to happen.
And the only way that I was going to determine
my own future was to do it myself. And so
I think my decision to own my own business was
(36:35):
part of that. Is that and I think a lot
of a lot of women fight with the existing system
rather than creating their own system. And amen to that, sister,
don't you think? So you can't change the system, and
maybe you can move it a little bit, but it's
very hard to change. And so I've always chosen to
(36:57):
to create my own system in I can be successful.
And I think you were ahead of your time, because
now I think there's a much more entrepreneurial attitude among people,
and obviously we all know whole new businesses are popping
up because of technology, and women are very successful in corporations.
But in the seventies that's not true. That wasn't true, right,
But even now, Uh, you look at the number of
(37:20):
CEOs and the fortune five hundred and spathetically small. If
you look at you know, of course it is women,
and the women's pretty well not right. If you look
at women actually in tech and high positions in tech,
it's actually dis worse and so um, yes, it's gotten
perhaps better, but in many ways the obstacles are still there.
(37:42):
I think there's a lot of subtle sexism too in
the workplace that can be very demoralizing at times. But
I'm sure it's people. I'm saving that from my book
the next podcast. But it's interesting. You're rand is kind
of a combination of the old fashioned and the modern.
(38:04):
You're you're cooking for your husband. Your latest book was
called Cooking for Jeffrey. But at the same time, you're
a powerful, independent female business owner, thank you. So it's
interesting I think that people can can have both and
can can sort of reflect their values in a multitude
of different ways. Well, I think Jeffrey's advice really was
(38:25):
great is do what you love and if you love it,
you'll be very good at it. But it's not it's
not without risk. And we got a voicemail from someone,
It's a very sweet voicemail who wanted to talk to
you about your decision to really switch career. So let's
listen and you can respond. Hi, Katie and Brian. My
(38:45):
name is Kendra. I live in North Carolina and I
have a new listener to your show and love it
so much. And then I heard you were going to
have Find a Garden on the show, which made me
jump up and down. Um I have a question for
her about her relationship with risk. I'm all is moved
by women who make choices that are daring, who are troublazers,
who do things that they might fail at, especially in
(39:08):
the public eye. And so I I would love to
know Dina's thoughts on her journey, the evolution of her
journey of risk and failure when she opened that first
shop in the Hanton years ago and up to now. Um,
I would love to just open her head and write
out what she thinks about risk to inspire me to
not be so free, So please change my life. I
thank you. Guys. We don't want to open up your
(39:31):
head because that sounds very uncomfortable. But you know, I
think people um stand at the side of the pond
talking about what the pond is. Is it too hot?
Is it too cold? Is it deep? Is it all
the things are there? Think murky things under there? Um,
I think that you have to just jump in the
pond and answer to Kendra. Um. I have a very
(39:51):
low threshold of boredom. If I'm bored, I need to
change things. And I just I can't stand being bored,
and so I'll take a risk which heightens your awareness
of what you're doing. It makes you a little scared,
and you know that. I think that's good being a
little scared, because if it keeps you up at night,
you'll figure out the problems. But when you're jumping in
the pond, it's not that you're just going to stay
(40:13):
in that pond. That's just the beginning of it. It's
then you look over there and you go the ponds
really interesting over there. So you go in that direction
and then you go in another direction. And you keep
going until you find the stream that feels right to you.
So it's not a one time thing. It's just you're
just pushing yourself off the cliff and going where it
takes you. And even and I like being scared, and
(40:35):
and and also I think failure is not the worst things.
If something doesn't work out, you learn from it and
it helps you move forward in a different way. Don't
you think I just calling it a failure is the
wrong way to think about it. It's just a lesson learned,
and you go and and then you find out what
worked in that and what didn't work, and then you
(40:55):
go to the thing that worked or the thing that
you liked and go in that direction. You're right, we
need to we need to redefine failure to stop using
the effort. I want to ask you a question about
all those years before you ventured off on your own
as a cookbook writer and a TV star. You know,
(41:18):
you you were owning and operating this shop. You were
kind of serving wealthy summer residents, and you became part
of the community of people who live here year round,
who don't have mansions on the ocean. Did that teach
you something about inequality or divides in the country because
(41:39):
you've been able to sort of traverse both those worlds.
While East Hampton is not just wealthy people with big
houses on the ocean. Their farmers and fishermen and builders
and all the trades that exist anywhere else are here. Um.
I think East Hampton has gotten I mean, the Hampton's
have gotten a reputation from you know TV shows as
being just you know, well healthy people behaving badly. Um.
(42:04):
And so I think it's a you know, it's it's
like any community. There's a broad spectrum of people that
live here, and they all love coconut cupcakes, and so
it's you know, the price of admission to bear for
Contesta with zero you can wander through and have some
samples of coconut cupcakes and and and be out on
the street. Or you can buy a baguette for a
few dollars and have a wonderful time. So they're like
(42:24):
everyday pleasures. It's not like, um, you know, buying a
mansion on the beach. So I think, you know, food
appeals to everybody, and I like that kind of feeling
about it. There's an expression these days. I think my
daughter taught me food porn, and when it comes to
things like Instagram and even the various food networks, there's
(42:46):
something so mesmerizing about watching people cook and make food.
And I could watch some of these videos on Instagram
and we don't love them. Yeah, I mean all day long.
Many people watch these videos. Would never cook what they're watching, No,
but it's just so much fun. Why do you think
people are so Do you think it's escapism in a
(43:08):
weird way? Ina, I think that we all long for
that mother who's in the kitchen cooking for us, and
she's not there anymore. And there's that center where somebody's
rolling out pasta or cooking roasting a chicken, and she's
a doctor and a lawyer and a you know, you know,
doing podcasts. Someone say more um, and so that sort
(43:38):
of core of us is missing. That is mom home
in the kitchen that we're familiar with, and I think
people are coming back to that. And I think Food
Network had a huge amount to do with it. There's
so many chefs, celebrity chefs out there. Do you ever
get competitive? Is there a bitchy side to Ina Garten?
Please tell me there is? Thank you. Brian's true I've
(44:04):
actually never looked at what other people are doing. I
just look at what I'm doing and do the best
I can. I just, I mean, i'd like to. There's
there's an edge there, but is that true? I don't
want to. Somebody once said, you're exactly the way you're
on TV. Your language is a little worse. But you
(44:26):
were reluctant to host a cooking show you had written,
I think your second cookbook, and the Food Network came
to you and you didn't really want to do it.
I mean, I just couldn't you know. I had gotten
used to writing cookbooks. I love doing it. I wasn't bored,
so I wasn't looking for something else. And they kept
coming back over and over again and saying, please, won't
you do it? And they kept upping the offer, and
(44:47):
I'm like, I'm not negotiating. I don't want to do it.
Just lose my number. And they found a production company
in London whose work I loved um but it was
Nigella Lawson's show. But I'm thinking, I'm not jeal a
loss and I can't do that, And and they hired
them and called me and said they're coming to your
house in two weeks to do the show. I said,
(45:08):
I said, I'm not doing it, and I said, oh,
just do thirteen shows. And I thought, well, I'll be terrible.
I'll do thirteen shows and then we'll be done with
it and I'll lose my number. So that two years ago,
and now you have a whole barn on your property
and that's where you shoot your most Mostly what I
do is cook tester. I mean that's my office. That's
where we meet every morning and we test recipes for
(45:31):
the cookbooks and then twice a year we do the
TV shows there. So and we're actually just doing a
new series which starts I think the end of May.
Um please plug it. As as people are going more
towards like food, food, porn and game shows, we're going
in the other direction. And I'm doing a series called
cook Like a Pro, which is all those sort of
(45:52):
little tips you need to know, like how to cut
a butternut squash in the best way and how to
how to do there. It's recipes, but more information than
just tips. It's about processes that interesting would be interested
to know. Yeah, definitely, yeah, because those kinds of tips,
then you know it and it can serve you sort
(46:13):
of the rest of your life, and you have to
come up with a new show. Someone's in the kitchen
with Aina in the kitchen, people are someone's in the
kitchen with and you can some sombled eggs with truffles ambrios.
This is kind of our tradition. By the way, every
thing on every podcast now, the audience demands it. If
(46:35):
we go an episode without singing, they get annoyed. So
give the people what they want. So in addition to
all the things that you're doing, Aina, are there other
things about you that people don't know, issues that you
care about, things that you talk about with your friends
that are important to you. But one of the things
you and I have talked about is um is organizations
(46:57):
that happen. I think elliots with one of working with
the sudden poverty carry actually my younger daughters working with
the centers, And I mean organizations that help people locally
and nationally, like the a c l u UM with
immigrants that have issues. And I think there's so many
incredible support systems in this country, and I think it's
(47:20):
it's getting harder and harder to rely on the government
to fund them, so people have to We really need to.
I've been involved in the Innocence Project is which is
I think they do an amazing job, isn't it. I mean,
my witness testimony is so unreliable and so many people
have been convicted of things they didn't do. And so
that's that's one issue you really care about. Are there
(47:42):
are there others that you spend a lot of time on?
You know, I think there's so many organizations that UM
need help. UM. I mean I support Plan Parenthood. I think, um,
they do an amazing job, and I know they're under
enormous stress now. Um, And frankly, people don't understand that.
I don't know, like of what they do as women's health,
(48:03):
it's you know, it's a very important organization for women
that can't afford good doctors. And the thing that is
so political is a very very small part of what
they do. And the money that they get from the
government already cannot go to fund abortion services. People don't
understand that. But how do you get your news? I'm
just curious. That's interesting. Um, New York Times, Washington Post online,
(48:29):
both hard copy and online. I think it's a different experience. UM.
I still like, I do you know why I just
like the I'd like to see the layout because it
tells me a lot about the editorial choices that have
been made in terms of how they prioritize articles. I
totally agree with you. Yeah, I feel if I don't
(48:50):
get the hard copy, I miss stuff for whatever reason.
Because online is so targeted to my interests, I can't
find the unexpected thing. But I'm like the only one
know I know. Under forty I have the body of year.
Do not stop saying that, well, this has been such
(49:13):
a treat for us. It's really been, and I think
you know it must be. I don't know. Do you
get uncomfortable about the fact that there are so many
people who feel connected to you and admire you so much?
And I think in many ways I feel that your
presence is really comforting to them. Thank you. That's wonderful,
(49:35):
you know that. I know. I love as Brian said,
that you know people how to cook, because when you cook,
everybody shows up. I mean, nobody's ever called and said
come for dinner, I'm cooking and said no, no, no,
I really don't want a home cook meal. But when
everybody shows up, that's when you create a community for yourself.
And so it's not really about the food, although it's nice,
if it's delicious, it's really about the people that share
(49:58):
it with you. Are you and Martha Stewart buds? I
mean we've been we've known each other for a really
long time. Yeah, we used to do parties together. Actually
one time we do benefits together. Really one time Martha
made a ham and brought it on the Today Show
and after the segment, I asked our food crew if
I could take the ham, and uh so I ended
(50:20):
up serving it for Easter and it was a big
conversation piece. It must have been a really good ham.
Was a really good ham. It was a really good ham. Anyway,
we'll speaking of really good hands. Yours is in the oven.
We don't want to keep you too long because it
is Easter and you have to prepare for Easter dinner.
(50:42):
But thank you. I know this was such a such
a tree. Really happy East, Happy Easter, too happy over
whatever your Spring Awakening holiday is, happily, have a wonderful time.
(51:02):
And just when we thought we got everything, who walks
in the door but Jeffrey Garden in the flesh and
uh and in the sweatpants and of course we got
to talk to the man, not I guess behind the woman. Yeah,
oh my god, are you nice to see you? I'm good?
(51:26):
How are you? This was such a treat. So we've
been talking about you, Jeffrey. Yes, we have all things,
these two. This show was going to be called Aina
and Jeffrey the real story. Well, I don't think that
was in the contract. Do you feel like, Jeffrey, you
(51:48):
finally learned to cook be marre to this wonderful woman
all these years. You're kidding, right, It makes really good coffee.
I have a very lame excuse that we were married
so young. With the exception of my time in the army,
I never lived alone, so I never had a chance
(52:11):
to cook. She preempted from the very everybody. Sorry for Jeffrey.
And when you were in the military, by the way,
you know we know too much about you. Learned to
speak THI, Yes he did. He lived in Can you
say something to me in Thai? Well you wouldn't understand.
That's okay. Anyway, Well, we've got so much fun. This
(52:35):
has been really, really a treat. Thanks very much to
Aina Garten for opening up her home and her heart
to us. But it is a beautiful on a beautiful
Sunday morning with the sun coming through Sunday. That's right,
the sun coming through the windows and the birds chirping,
(52:56):
and it was just idyllic. Also thanks to Gianna Palmer
for producing the show, to Jared O'Connell for mixing and engineering,
or Richie for additional production assistance. And thanks also to
our social media Maven. I think that has that on
her card, Alison Bresnick social media, Maven and your cards
bad that's right and right my new cards. And to
(53:18):
Emily Beena for her part in producing. And I should
add one thing, Katie, thank you for cooking us an
amazing dinner last night, maybe inspired by I know a
little bit. You made this leg of lamb and lemon
pasta and asparagus and cupcakes and hala and halla for
those of us who are celebrating the Paysach as well
as the Easter, and you put us all up at
(53:40):
your beautiful house last night. Well, it was a lot
of fun. And that's a train in the background. Everybody,
we're right near the tracks and cars on the wrong
side of the tracks. And Mark Phillips, thank you as
always for our wonderful theme music. Katie Kirk, Mitch Semmil
and I are our executive producers. And remember you can
email us at comments at currect podcast dot com, or
(54:02):
you can find me on social media. I'm Katie Couric
on Twitter and Instagram and Katie dot Kurric on Snapchat.
And Brian you're on social media as well, primarily Twitter, Twitter,
Goldsmith be on Twitter, and best of all, you can
rate and review our show on what is now known
as Apple podcast used to be iTunes. iTunes is so March,
It's so yesterday, April is all about Apple Podcasts. Don't
(54:25):
forget to subscribe to the show as well. That's how
more people can find it. And we'll talk to you
next time. Thanks for listening.
Host
Katie Couric
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