Life Advice from a Mentalist with Oz Pearlman

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Please feel free to post buy the book. Pre orders
are open. My publisher would kill me if I didn't
say that.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Good point is this upside down.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm already in Katie Kurt's line.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
This is my first gig.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hahu.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Anyway, that was so funny. Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric
and this is next question. Thank you all so much
for coming. This is going to be a really fun conversation.
O's is amazing. Oh's Peerlman, aka the Mentalist, has his
new book called Read Your Mind, Proven Habits for success

(00:46):
from the world's greatest mentalists. O's has also become a
friend of ours and came to the US Open predicted
who was going to win. Not really. He's so much
fun and such a great person. So os, I'm really
excited to have this conversation for next question. So first
of all, I'll bite, why do you decide to write

(01:06):
a book? You're a very busy guy, You're traveling all
over the country, you've got five kids, you're an ultra
marathon or you're a very hyper active individual. Why do
you want to do this now?

Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I think for years I didn't really believe that
I had a book in me, even though people around
me kept telling me, you have a great story.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
You should tell this book, and I did.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Speaking of kind of crazy things, I have a weird
claim to fame, which is I ran around Central Park
more times in a day than anybody ever had before.
So that was I ran one hundred and sixteen miles
in eighteen hours.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
So yeah, not normal, but I was going to say big.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
The follow up is why why?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
So I actually raised a lot of money for charity
for Save the Children, so I felt great about it.
But otherwise why, I don't know. I like to do
things that are kind of nuts. But when I finished
that Reuter's it took off. It whenever front page of
the New York Times, second page, Wall Street Journal, and
a good friend of mine who's an author, said you
need to write a book, and so many people said
it to me at once that again, I think I
always wanted to do it, and I dreamed of doing it,

(02:04):
but I didn't believe in myself that I could. But
so many people saying kind of validated the fact that
maybe people would be interested. And then it came down
to if I'm going to write a book, I'm not
writing a memoir because I'm of the thought, who cares
about you, who cares what you're doing. With that, you
have to earn people's attention, and I think the best
way to earn that is giving actionable takeaways that you're
going to use in your life that are going to

(02:26):
help you succeed. And it's not learning how to do mentalism,
which this is not what the book is. Before I
tell you what the book is, what it's not, I'm
not going to teach.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
You how I did the tricks. I'm not going to
teach you how I.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Knew which ball who Joe Burrow would throw the ball to,
even though John Moulner is like, tell me how you
did that. So I don't want to teach you how
to be a mentalist. There's books that you could learn
that from. I want to teach you how to apply
the skills of a mentalist.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
To your life at work, at.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Home, how to deepen your connections with people, because what
I really do at my core is I've studied human
behavior for three decades and I know how people think.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
And I know that one of the ways she learned
about human behavior, Oh's, was when you were a little boy,
you were first fascinated by magic when did you start
performing magic tricks?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
A teenager?

Speaker 3 (03:12):
The teenager and then you started working. So you grew
up in Michigan. But town Farmington Hills, Oh yeah, that's fancy.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Shout out anyway, it's not West Bloomfield is fancier. I
was in a different part of Farmington Hills.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
So you grew up in Farmington Hills, Michigan. You love, love,
love magic, and you decide you're going to guess. Your
mom tells you if you want to do magic, you
need to bring home some money.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Right Fully, she's like, yo, I'm not buying you any
more tricks. So my folks have gotten divorced. I'll spurre
the gory details, but it was a really messy breakup,
and I think that if you were to go back
and kind of like therapize me, this was my escape
was doing magic, was not having to kind of deal
with the pain instead bring people joy, which I see
as a common parallel because I love stand up comedy
and a lot of the comedians I know were the

(03:57):
jokesters in their home to kind of take away some
of the things that weren't as happy or pleasant. So
I think that was similar, and I love the fact
that when I kind of started doing magic, it was
like Clark Kent became Superman, but in a nerdly fourteen
year old way, so that I could now connect with
people and watch them smile and be happy, and that
kind of brought me joy, and I wanted to buy

(04:18):
more tricks because tricks cost money and they're expensive. That's
how it keeps people from knowing how the tricks work.
So exactly that my Mom's like, I don't have any money.
If you want to do this, after a year, you
got to go make money.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
And so you go and you work at a neighborhood restaurant,
cart you walk to so to paint the picture for
us of Little O's performing at Zia's, this restaurant nearby.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
So God knows where I got the confidence to do this.
It was a full fake it till you make it.
But I had this just mindset from an early age
of always being able to put myself in the other
person's shoes, which I think is a superpower of empathy,
and knowing that I'm not going to go in there
when the restaurant is busy, like during dinner, I'm not
going to going there at lunch when it's also they're
getting ready. I'm going to go into that sweet spot,

(05:02):
which happened to be after school for me, where they're
not as busy. And that's like marketing one oh one.
I didn't know how I knew it, but I just
realized it. And also going in there with benefits oriented
language from a young age, I realized, if I just
tell them about how great I am, who cares honestly,
that doesn't matter. The tricks need to be great, that's
a benchmark. What I need to do is explain to

(05:23):
them why it's worth it for them to have me.
And so I kind of went in there with my
sales pitch. I started doing tricks for the bartender. I
think I had an orange juice. I knew they were
going to bring someone over. By that time, they got
the general manager over, and then my Israeli mother's like,
you know, like, let's start sales pitching here, buddy. And
that's when I said to them, have you ever had
entertainment before? And that's kind of what got their wheels

(05:44):
in motion. No, And I go, why don't I come
here on your slowest night? And why don't I do
it for free?

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Right?

Speaker 1 (05:49):
The best way somebody recently told me on a podcast,
Randy Kaplan shout out the best way to get a
job do it for free.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
It's very hard to say no to free, very hard.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
And so I said to them, don't pay me a
dime to come in here on what's your slows Nite Tuesday.
If every person that walks out here doesn't tell you
how great it was and how they're gonna come back
with more people, next time we shake hands, we say goodbye,
we had a great night.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
There's nothing to decide. This is a win win for you.
And so that worked. I don't know how, but it worked.
And I worked at that restaurant.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Oh wait, wait, wait, so the first night you did this, yep,
you dazzled everybody.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
No, I did not dazzle everybody.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
So but obviously you said it worked. So people, if
I got.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
My foot in the door, yeah, I got my foot
in the door, Get the toe in the door, get
the foot in the door, and then open the door
fully right, That's kind of my modus operandi in life.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
But once I had the foot in the door, I
had to get better. But no, I sucked.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I don't know who. If somebody is alive and was
there at Zia's in a nineteen ninety six. They can
vouch she was not destined for greatness, but I iterated,
I improved, and thank goodness, I've gotten a little bit better.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
And then you started going there regularly though.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Right I was.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
I became a regular and I did get paid, Yeah,
fifty bucks under the table.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Don't tell the irs.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
So obviously I know that that honed your ability to
kind of read people. Talk about how that those interactions
really were invaluable in terms of what you ultimately became.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
So there's a chapter in my book called Channel You're
Inner Mentalist, And that's not to pretend to read people's minds,
but to try to know what they're thinking, because that
is a tactical advantage in your entire life. So what
I learned at a young age going up to restaurants to
people who probably had babysitters who the last thing they
wanted was for some teenager to come up to them
doing card tricks, like, oh my god, who is this person?

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Do I have to tip them? Right?

Speaker 1 (07:39):
All of these things that creep into your mind when
you see a stranger approach you in your personal space,
and that's daunting, right. The only thing more daunting is
the people on the corners who are trying to get
me to sign up for a charity.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
And you're like, oh God, what do I say to
them right now? When I passed them? Right? You know
that vibe?

Speaker 1 (07:53):
So learning how to diffuse tension and learning what people
are thinking in that moment that took a long time,
but it gave me this incredible playbook for life.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Here's what I mean.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
I started to learn what is it that somebody thinks
about me when I walk up to them? And I
realized quickly they don't know who I am? Does he
even work here? What's he about to do? Is?

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Oh god? Is he doing magic? Is he any good?
Do I have money to tip him?

Speaker 1 (08:17):
There's about ten thoughts that race through that person's mind
in two seconds. That's what happens in your brain. So
my job became how do I win them over? Answer
every one of those questions, check every box so that
within ten seconds the power dynamic is flipped.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
I don't want them, they want me.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
So I learned all these different tactics that when I
approach somebody head on, it's very, very stress inducing for
somebody to walk right up to you. But if you
walk up to somebody at an angle, it's that simple.
If you walk up to somebody to approach them with
only one shot, one eye showing, it's less tense. When
you walk up to a table with one foot in,
one foot out, people are less nervous around you.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
So simple, yet it makes a big difference I walk up.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I would also create time constraint, So I'd walk up
to you and say I only have a minute. So
right there, he's not staying that long. He only has
a minute. And never ask a yes or no question.
That's a rule of life. Asking a yes or no
question when you meet somebody is a great way to
have them slam the door in your face right no
where you're gonna go from there?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
And very bad in interviews too.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Terrible, terrible religion, politics, yes or no questions not good necessarily.
So I would realize that if I walked up to them,
I found out all these little tips and tricks and
little things I could say, and I got better and better.
Where again, this applies to my life, but there's ways
to apply this to your life, which is I'd walk
up at an angle and say I only have a minute.
But did you hear what's going on tonight? It's your

(09:40):
lucky day right away? What are you going to say
to that other than no, what's going on?

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Right? You just won the lottery? What's going on?

Speaker 1 (09:47):
I go The owner of the restaurant brought me in
as a special treat, and this is going to be
absolutely incredible. So we're at about eight or nine seconds
since I've approached the table. I have let you know
that the owner has brought me in. I work here,
they know i'm here. I have not given you any outs.
I've just made it seem like, oh my god, something's amazing.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
It's a treat.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
You don't need to worry about money right then, which
is one of the most awkward parts of the interaction
at the beginning, and then bam, it's on. So I
learned how to approach people and how to get them
to instantly be drawn in, and I think that is
such a huge thing in life and learning what are
they thinking when they meet me?

Speaker 3 (10:23):
So how can people apply kind of those rules to
everyday interactions because obviously a lot of people in this
room are meeting new people, new clients, saying hi to people.
I have interview guests coming in to do the podcasts,
et cetera, et cetera. So give us an example of
how you can practice that every day.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Absolutely so.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
There's body language cues that are very important, which is
seeing how somebody else behaves.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
You can mirror their energy, like in a great interview.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
If somebody else is energetic, it's good for you to
be lightly energetic meet their energy.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Don't overwhelm them. You know what, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
You want to be at the same level as the
person with you, And that's why I approach people in
a calm manner, but upbeat.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
So that's a huge one.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Another one is people when they meet you are an autopilot.
They're an autopilot. It's exactly you think. They're not flying
the plane. The plane is flying itself. Because when we
meet people, we tend to ask the same three or
four questions. Oh, nice to me, what's your name, where
are you from?

Speaker 2 (11:20):
What do you do? I have answers to that.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
My mental heuristics are designed to have answered that one
hundred times before. I'll probably answer it the same way
for you. So challenge yourself to think, what can I
ask this person that they've never been asked? Before and
that will take them out of autopilot, which will make
you memorable. I'm going to give you just a great example.
I did an event about a year ago with President Obama.

(11:44):
I'm dropper, sorry, sorry, this is heard of him, so
it's in the book. It comes full circle because there's
another event with Richard Brandson. It's too long of a story,
but the one with President Obama was I was performing
on the same stage as him. He was going to
be speaking, and I knew for a fact that he
was going to be on after one, but he might
not do a meet and greet, so I might not
meet him. But I've decided if I'm going to have

(12:04):
the chance to meet him, I need to know what
I'm going to say to him.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Now.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
If you have the chance to know who you're going
to meet, do your research right, Go in prepared.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
That's already such a huge thing. Don't just wing it.
Be prepared. Now.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
My wife, who I'm going to talk about her in
a moment, because she's a force of nature and I
have to thank her for everything. This book would not
be here, my life would not be here without her.
So honestly, before you even start, you've met her. She's amazing,
and she doesn't get nearly enough thanks. I should sidetrack.
I think the number one thing that should have been
in this book. Decision you make in life is who
you end up being with, or partner with or marrying,
because that is the single most important decision you'll ever make.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Like, I wouldn't be.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Here right now if she wasn't holding down the fort
and doing so many things behind the scenes. So when
I met President Obama, and I thought about it for months,
and my wife was like, why do you keep thinking
about this? I go because I need this moment to
be perfect. I walked up to President Obama, he was
talking to people, he turned I finally had my moment.
I'm like, five seven and three quarters, so much taller.

(13:01):
I need those three quarters. That's why I add those
in relatively average for a Jew, but I'll take it.
And right when I finally get his eye line, Okay,
he's been schmoozing everybody for fifteen minutes, he finally turns
to me and I go in for the shake and
I go, thank you so much for the gift, sir.
What would you say if somebody you don't know everyone

(13:21):
right now? Truly Polus goes to thank you so much
for the gift. What would you say? You said, you're welcome.
That's what almost nobody would say. This guy just didn't
want you.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Awkward. Everyone said the same thing. What gift right what gift?
Right away?

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Not a yes or no answer. Also, I bet you
he's met hundreds of thousands of people and shaking their
I don't know how many people ever asked him or
said that to him. So right away he's confused. He's
not in his zone of autopilot. He goes what gift,
and I go, well, sir, I'm performing in ten minutes
on that same stage, so I forever get to tell
people that President Obama opened for me.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
So we did two things.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
I got a laugh, I got a little rapport, And
now I was hoping that he would say what are
you performing? That was my next question. What happened was
infinitely better. When he goes, oh, I know you, you were
amazing on hard knocks, I'm like freaking out because I
didn't know Obama knew me at this point.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
So I'm turning to my wifem like are you seeing this?
Are you seeing this? Are you seeing this?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
And right then I know I have my moment. Secret
service is right here. He's got to go to more people.
I go, are you ready? Thirty seconds? The most amazing
thing you've seen, not today but this month, And right
when I created the time barrier, thirty seconds, he said
to me, thirty seconds, and I have him. Doesn't matter
how long it's going to be. I've captured him. So
the thirty seconds gave him a thing because he knows

(14:40):
there's an out. So now I did something amazing that's
neither here nor there. But notice read his mind. You
can see the pictures in the video, but it was
that forethought. So you ask yourself, what can you do
in you when you meet somebody who's going to be
important to you, do your research.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Don't just go in there blind. That's on you if
you weren't prepared.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Second, challenge yourself to think, what could I say to
this person that will intrigue them, interest them that someone
else hasn't asked them before. Now, in certain instances, you
can't do your research, you meet people at events, you're
in the moment. You can't have thought this through for months.
So I think a compliment is a great way to
do it right away. Say something to them that they
don't they haven't heard before. That always warms people up,

(15:23):
or see if you can figure out what interests them
and lean into that. A big recipe for my success,
and it's a whole chapter in the book, is that
I try to make myself shine by making others shine.
I for example, this is a weird thing on CNBC,
the Financial Network. How many other mentalists or magicians have
ever been on that network? Can you guess? Z zero?

(15:46):
It doesn't make sense. Why would they bring me on?
And yet last year I was on every single time
slot of the network.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
That's a crazy statistic. Why is that?

Speaker 1 (15:56):
It's not because they love my face or I'm some
special person. I provide value to their viewer. I'll be
on that show just like a cooking show, just like
a show that will appeal to women age eighteen to
forty nine versus NBA, versus NFL. Because I designed my
material based on the end viewer. I don't design it
based on me. A card trick is amazing because oh cool,

(16:19):
but it's not about you. I do things that emotionally
appeal to my audience. So when I meet people, I
want them to shine, not me.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
And that's like, when you do something for a football team.
What football team was the one that I was just
the Bengals. I'm not a big football person, but when
you were in the Bankals, you were doing a very
football oriented presentation.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Right, Absolutely, it's jersey numbers, it's about plays, it's about
you know, thur and long like it's it's the ultimate.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
I just asked myself, if you really had a.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Superpower to read people's minds and you liked football, what
would you want to do? I want to know where
the quarterback is going to throw the ball, because if
I know that, that's worth millions, if not billions of dollars.
They literally paid to eventsive coordinators just to watch film
all the time to do that.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
So if you're a football fan, you're intrigued.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
If you're a football gambler, show me what the parlay
is going to be, right, do the things that the
fans are going to like.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Hi, everyone, it's me Katie Couric. You know, if you've
been following me on social media, you know I love
to cook, or at least try, especially alongside some of
my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blanco, Jake Cohen,
Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman and Ininagarten. So I started a
free newsletter called good Taste to share recipes, tips and

(17:38):
kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katiecuric dot com slash
good Taste. That's k A t I E C O
U r I C dot com slash good taste. I
promise your taste buds will be happy you did. It's

(18:02):
really interesting that you say prepare for even you know,
initial interactions, the idea that you never get a second
chance to make a first impression and really figure out
how you can make someone feel comfortable, think about what
you're going to talk about with them, and don't worry. Well, Mulner,
I'm going to tell this funny story about you and
Don Henley at the White House. It's embarrassing, but I'm

(18:23):
going to just tell it really quick. Is a quick
quick thing, a quick pivot. So, Maulner, my husband, for
those of you who don't know, was at the White
House with his ex wife and his former in laws.
I guess they's still kind of your laws. But anyway,
his father in law was getting an award for some
humanities thing and he was at the White House and

(18:44):
Don Henley was there from the Eagles, you know. So
John taps him on the back and right in the
middle of him having this long conversation, and he goes
just second, and so Mulner's like waiting patiently for Don
Henley to turn around. Finally he's standing there and Don
Henley turns around and he says hey, and John goes, hey,
how you doing?

Speaker 2 (19:06):
You were ready? You were locked and loaded Moulder.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
He followed it up quickly saying A Hotel California is
my favorite karaoke song.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Anyway, I just always thought that was such a funny story.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
You were shell shocked. Though I've had that happen.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
It's funny because I've been starstruck by people that like
when I've listened to podcasts, there's people I've listened to
podcasts for years that I've met them, and it's such
a weird intimate space that I didn't want to say,
because I'm like, I've just heard you talk so many
times that it's almost strange where you'll freeze up in
those situations. Yeah, but at the end of the day,
people are people, so hopefully you can break through that
kind of life.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Don Henley was not impressed, and he started around and
walked away. But anyway, so let me get back to
some of you.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
You'll meet him again, I predict it now, and he
will be ready for you. You will be ready for him.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, that's the good news.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
So let's talk a little bit more about your biography.
If you well, I mean, so magic was your passion.
You didn't expect it to be a career path. You
didn't think you to earn a living doing magic. You
go to the University of Michigan, you graduate, and then
you end up going to work on Wall Street. So
tell me about that decision you made and sort of

(20:19):
the impact it had on your trajectory.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
So I love when I meet people who are teenagers
and people are twenties who know what they're going to
do for their life. I'm just overwhelmed because I had
no idea. Trust me, it is still surreal where I'm like,
I'm a mentalist for a living. It's still just as
weird as it sounds to you. Still pretty weird to
me at times because I didn't anticipate this at all.
Life works out in funny ways. But I was doing

(20:42):
this on the side while working on Wall Street. But
I kind of first generation immigrant. I came to the
States when I was three. I think my folks were
very pragmatic. It was you go to school, you get
a job, and that's what you do, and that's what
was kind of drilled into me.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
So I did not know.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
I didn't know anyone in Hollywood or in show is
where I could picture myself as that's what I would
do for a living.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
I didn't think that was possible, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
I didn't really have any mentors or anybody that could
just instill in me that switch saying, believe in yourself,
you can do this. So I was again, for better
or worse. My mom moved away, my dad moved away.
When I was sixteen, I graduated high school. I went
to Michigan right when I turned seventeen, and I paid
for school myself, which kind of sucked at the time
but has a silver lining at the moment because I

(21:27):
was a hustler, so I had businesses.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
I ran on the side.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Either there's a chatter in my book where I talked
about removing in song Boat docks and all of these
things I did because I had to pay tuition, and
I had to pay for college with nobody paid. I
had to pay for everything, So I was doing magic
on the side, and I was always working, so my
default mode was networking.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
I never allowed a business lead to slip.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
I learned at a young age that if I hand
you a business card and you go, oh, we're gonna
have a Christmas party and you don't call me, why
didn't you call me? You know that rejection stung. So
I go, I'm not gonna let my future be in
your hands. I'm gonna be the one who follows up.
And I learned that less than age fourteen. Oh, I
fake it till you make it. If somebody was like,
oh my god, this would be amazing at a Christmas party, amazing,

(22:09):
let me take down your number right now, right. I
didn't have a cell phone, so like in the nineties,
and somebody on my team will call you. Did I
have a team? No, it was me myself and I
I didn't have a driver's license. So literally, I decided
early on that when opportunities present themselves or I find them,
I never let them slip. Never let someone else be
in charge of your future success. No agent, no manager,

(22:31):
no boss. You need to be your number one cheerleader
in life. And I learned that by by you know,
wherever you want to describe it by virtual of the
fact that I had nobody really taking care of me,
so I had to do that for myself. So when
I worked on Wall Street, I was always doing this
on the side.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
So you kind of asked me, was I doing this?

Speaker 1 (22:48):
I was doing this at cocktail hours, at happy hours,
at work. I went to like restaurants here. I had
four different restaurants that I worked at. I finished work
at six pm. I grew to a restaurant and I'm
doing tricks until ten pm.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
That O, Bravo.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
The Real Housewives of New York. There was a place
called t Bar on the Upper East Side. I met
all the Real Housewives, started getting with them, with Bethany,
with like Ramona, like this is old school, and I
just started building that name of doing tons of bar
and bought mitst Us Bridle showers and doing this all
on the side.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
This was all side hustle for a few years while
I had a day job.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
And was this still magic or you made this transitions
from being wanting to be a magician to being a menalist,
But initially you kind of thought menalists. You weren't impressed.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Oh my God dreadfully boring. So yeah, magic is very
fun because you can do moves. Again, I liked sleight
of hand. I could like being able to sit and
just practice really fun weird facts. But I was so
obsessive with cards that I found cards that were waterproof
so I could practice in the shower. Okay, I am
not proud of that, Lamar. I was like, put that

(23:51):
in the books so they understand what level of psycho
you are. So that was where the hustle came in.
But that was the passion to get the ten thousand hours.
Magic was fun because it was a puzzle. It was
fun to do. Mentalism has very little moves, there's no
sleight of hand, there's no like thing to do.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
It's very cerebral.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
It's analyzing how people think, how they behave, and how
you can influence them. So it's the closest parallel to
mind reading without any supernatural or psychic powers. So mentalism
is also very very difficult to get good at because
you can practice magic by yourself ad nauseum, and you
can get so good that when you go to someone

(24:29):
and do the trick, it will most likely work. Mentalism
is very challenging because you could go up to somebody
and blow it over and over and over.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
You can't really practice at home that much.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Just like a stand up comic doesn't know if they're
funny until an audience validates it.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
They have to laugh at your joke.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
But is it nature and nurture? I mean, in other words,
are certain people wired to be menalists or have some
of the traits you do, Because honestly, it's so much
more than reading people and understanding people. The stuff you
do is insane, thank you, it really is.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
So.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
I mean, are some people more suited or kind of
more tuned in to other people, like their emotional intelligence
or their perception powers are just superior.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
It's a great question.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
I think everything I do is learnable, but some of
it is an innate talent. And I always give the
parallel of musical talent. So you could give me a
vocal coach for the next three years. If I sing,
everybody will leave this room. Okay, it's brutal. I will
never get to that level no matter how much I practice.
So I don't have an innate skill for music.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
I wish I did. I love music.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
I have an innate skill that I think everybody in
this room could potentially reach a certain ceiling if they
started learning mentalism. But are you willing to commit thirty
years to being the best at it and having a
relentless drive? And I think that honestly, the skills that
I found that have given me success, you can separate
them from what I do for a living. As a
mentalist can take a end diagram and remove the overlap.

(26:02):
And I think those core skills are what can give
you success at anything you do. And that's what I
try to distill from my life and put in the book.
It's not the mentalism. I truly believe that if you
took all the mentalist powers away right now, I can
go into a room.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
I can win people over.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
I can earn their trust, build rapport, create relationships that
are give and take where they want you. They want
to be your champion. Right Nobody achieved success in a vacuum.
The best thing you can ever do is be able to,
you know, have strong relationships with people, connect with them
on a deep note, and they will elevate you. Every
person in this room who's attained a leadership position has

(26:40):
done it by working well with others in some way,
shape or form, or you wouldn't be there.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
And I think that's kind of the skills of a mentalist.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Havi said that though you're kind of a natural extrovert.
Clearly I'm extroverted too, but a lot of people are
not as outgoing as you.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Know what you do in that case, Yeah, so I
think I think I think introvert extrovert is somewhat innate,
even though if you catch me in other environments, I
am myself right here, just this slightly exaggerated version. That's
if you met me day to day, you know me.
I'm not like a different guy. It's the same person,
for better or worse. But I think that the way
you do it, and that the way if you really

(27:18):
boil down what it is about being around other people,
a fear of rejection and failure, that's what is at
the core of that. And that's something that I found
a way to rewire my brain when I was doing
those restaurants. And this is one of the skills in
the book that I teach you, which is everyone hates
being rejected. Right when I walked up to a table
and I was that age and they're like, get out

(27:38):
of here, kid. That hurts if you do that in
any guys in business, a sales lead, if you do
that in a your romantic life, you approach somebody and
they shoot you down. Man, does that hurt because what
are they saying. They're saying you're not good enough. So
here's what I did. I created a life hack in
my brain where I don't know how I did this.
It's kind of like a split personality. To protect myself

(27:59):
and thick skin. I rewired my brain to say, you
know what, that person doesn't know me. They know Owes
the Magician, So whatever they felt didn't hurt me.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
I'm a different person.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
I created this thing in my mind where I go,
really successful, you have an agent, right, you don't have
to do your contract negotiations, the dirty parts. You get
someone else to be bad cop, bad cop, good cop.
So I said in my brain, they don't dislike me,
I'm not gonna take it personally. They don't like Ohs
the Magician, and I started creating excuses. I go, maybe
their kids sick at home, maybe this. I started crecreating
all these reasons that it wasn't about me, it was

(28:32):
about them. And so I didn't take the pain personally,
and I could walk up to the next table and
feel good and not be like in this bad mood
with the next table and take it out on them.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Think of it this way. In your mind, you're in control.
You are in control.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
If I gave you a bowl of water, and I
took salt and poured it in the bowl of water,
that's all salt water now. But what if you could
take a little piece of clear plexiglass put in the middle,
and you only pour salt in one side.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Now the other side is fresh water.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
If you have the ability to control that, and what
you tell yourself in your mind is what you believe,
perception becomes reality. Confidence is gained by telling yourself positive things,
not telling oh my god, I'm so bad, I'm so this.
If you start telling yourself good things, you will naturally
feel better. When you run a marathon, there's a funny
thing they say, if you feel like crap, start smiling

(29:20):
and you're like screw you, start smn seriously, smile for
the next five minutes mile twenty to twenty sixth New
York City Marathon. I don't care how you feel. Smile,
say thank you to the volunteers, Be cheerful. Your brain
your body will change literally in your brain. You will
start feeling better. You can't smile for five minutes and
not start feeling slightly better than you did.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Right. Your body is connected to your mind. So that's
what I started doing.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
If you are an introvert, I would say to you,
challenge yourself today to do one thing you haven't done before.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Right, challenge yourself.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
See how you feel before, see how you feel after,
and you'll realize a lot of it is just dread that's.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Internal that evaporates when you give it a go.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Let's talk again about this transition from magic to menalism
or is that what it's called menalism? I mean, so
you're a little kid, you're doing magic. How did you
even know what meant what it was to be a menalist?
Did you know people who did this? How did you
make that transition?

Speaker 1 (30:17):
So there's books, there's videos, I mean, that's how we learn,
kind of like there's conventions, which sounds so nerdy and
it is.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
It's like what are two mentalists do in a room?

Speaker 1 (30:25):
They don't talk, They just look at each other's smile,
make facial expressions. So I knew about it from teenage
years because there'd be lectures that came into my local
magic shop, but I just found it so boring. I'm like,
where's the moves, where's the gimmicks, where's the stuff to buy?
I was very in a different mind space at the time,
and then I had a mentor who kind of changed
my mind. But what happened is I was on a
show called America's Got Talent. Oh yeah, twenty fifteen.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
But you you got on the third time, right, you
had to audition three times?

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Saction third time was the charm? So whatever.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
I people that would tell me, oh, you got on
that show that made your career, Like, yet, have you
tried out? They're like, no, I tried out three times
before I got on. So again, that's a great way.
First time being out, second time doing it out, keep trying,
don't give up, be relentless, right if I have a goal.
This is again one of those things that I've rewired
my brain. I never say to myself when I hear
a no, I don't hear you.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
I'm sorry. I literally Google translate.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
I hear not yet, okay, not in a bad way,
not consent, but I'm saying like, sounded weird sound and weird,
but for things that have to do with my goals,
career oriented things that I am driven to do and achieve.
When somebody says no, I in my mind just think
not yet. I think not yet. The time is not right.
And even when people around you will say to you no,

(31:38):
you know, don't be silly like you have a side hustle.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
You have something you want to do.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
You want to be CEO of this company one day,
and the people around you say that that's come on,
really though, I hear all that, and I just say
that's a not yet. I get two steps back. I'm
gonna find one step forward, and I'm gonna keep doing it.
Because again, if you tell yourself no, I know this
sounds silly, and I'm not trying to be new age
or man manifestor any of that, no brass tax. I'm

(32:02):
all about actionable advice. You are setting in stone in
your mind. The no, you're not finding the choices you're
going to make to get to that place. You're going
to give up too early. And so when I say
not yet, I'm going to keep looking for those paths up.
How can I eventually get this goal achieved? And finding
those opportunities, and it might not be for a month,
a year, a decade, but I am relentless. It's the

(32:24):
same spirit as why I do the ultra marathons. I'm
going to finish.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Did that attitude solidify when you kept getting rejected from
America's Got Talent or HGTS? I mean, did that reinforce
sort of your drive or your persistence?

Speaker 1 (32:40):
So that was a funny one because that wasn't like
a long term goal. I just said I had a
few friends shout out to Buddy Jef Berman and his
brother Ariy because he's at Howard String. He's obsessed with
Howard Stern. It's like, you got to get on the
show Howard Strees. A few of my friends just love Howard,
and I love Howard too. We know each other quite
well now. But he goes, you got to get on
the show. Howard's going to love you. And so I
decided I would try out, and I started watching the
show and then I kind of fell in love with it.

(33:02):
But the first time I went and tried out, I
was it didn't work out, and it wasn't under my control.
They brought me into a room and I had a
friend who knew a producer, and I got this like,
you know, the casting call, the producer call where Velvet
wrote at the club, come on in, sir. I didn't
have to wait with five thousand other people for an
entire day. So it's the red carpet approach. It so nice.

(33:23):
But when I walked in, they didn't know what I do.
So they put me bless you.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
I knew you. It's these right.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Then they put me in a room with a camera
and they're like, go and I'm like, I'm not a singer,
Like I'm a mind reader. I need to read someone's
mind or this is not going to be a good bit.
And so they bring in a PA. The PA's on
a headset. It's not going well. They're distracted. I'm like,
but I don't want to be a stick in the mud.
I did not want to be my own advocate or
feel like a diva. So I allowed myself to perform

(33:50):
in a suboptimal environment.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
It didn't go well. I walked out of there.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
I'm like, this stunk and I obviously didn't make it.
And so I learned right then again that same lesson
of you need to add for yourself. You need to
be your own champion if you keep waiting for others
to do it for you. And in our world, an agent,
a manager this that, yes, people can help you, but
I believe truly no one will ever help you as
much as you help yourself. So in that situation, I said,

(34:15):
the second time, I'm gonna go back. I'm going to
do a much better job. I'm going to be force full, direct,
but still go with the flow. But I need to
do what I need to succeed. Didn't go well again, right,
And that wasn't my fault. It was like minus twelve
degrees is in January. I wait outside for eight hours.
I couldn't get in, so.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
I had to go. I had a gig. I gotta
get paid. So then the third time I came in,
I didn't care. And I hear actors.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
I've heard a lot of actors on podcasts where they say,
I got the you know, the gig of my life.
I nailed the audition because I went in not caring.
I did not care if I got it or didn't.
Things were going pretty well in my life, and I
go if I didn't get it twice and things are
going well, who cares?

Speaker 3 (34:49):
So is your advice don't care.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
I wouldn't say don't care because I was still very prepared.
But there is something about being nonchalant and being loose.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
It's the same as an athlete.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
An athlete that's tense, you know, does a false start,
and track and field are swimming and dques. The people
that can loosen themselves up. It's sports psychology if you
can allow muscle memory to kick in. I went in
there and I did tricks that I've done thousands of times.
I also, during the three years that I was not
on AGT, did nearly probably seven hundred shows, which allowed
me to get better and better. Every time I do

(35:20):
a show, I'm iterating, I'm seeing what worked what didn't work.
When audiences love me great, that feels good for my ego.
It doesn't help me one bit. What helps me is
when things go wrong, right, that's the best. When you
lose as an athlete, you learn much better lessons. Same
thing for me. I have a lot of people in
my field, and we can become, for lack of better,

(35:40):
egomaniac because we're like reading people's minds. They're freaked out.
You get nothing but joy, like you're just doing fun things.
I am blessed with a life that is beyond lucky.
I get to work for myself. But as a mentalist,
people will tell you it's kind of like pizza. Even
if it's not that good, it's still pretty delicious. So
even a mentalist who's not that good, which I'm not
measuring success, you'll still be amazed. So some people I've

(36:02):
seen they buy it. Any dude, my show is so great,
was so grand? Like you didn't learn anything from that?
Find what could have been improved? And it doesn't mean
you don't have joy. You can be a perfectionist while
still enjoying things, but see what you could have done better.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
I always strive to improve.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
You also talk a lot in the book about visualization,
right and kind of positive thinking. We've heard a little
bit about that, how you don't hear no and you
imagine that plexiglass and the bowl of water was salt
on one side, not on the other. But how can
you actually visualize again, I know you want to give
practical advice, so how can you visualize success?

Speaker 1 (36:40):
So you just hit the nail on the head, which
is one of the biggest parts. What is success like?
Literally for my goal of my definition of success probably
differs from almost every other person in this room. And
I think that's where I'm uniquely qualified because that's why
I do. I get inside people's heads. So part of
the book is I just try to get inside your
head and help you do it. Figure out what is
success for you, because so many of the things that

(37:01):
we think are success when we get them aren't always
what we really wanted. It's a funny thing when you
achieve your goals, you realize was that really my goal?

Speaker 2 (37:09):
To begin with?

Speaker 1 (37:09):
I've had so many people I've talked to like, oh,
I want to make this much money, and I go,
what does that actually mean?

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Though? Why do you want to make that much money?
What will that do for you?

Speaker 1 (37:16):
And then we can break down the steps the same
way that when you run a marathon, the first step
tends to be the hardest one getting to the start line.
So to answer that question, you need to find measurable
goals along the way, quantifiable goals, big pie in the
sky goals of like I want a better job, what
does that mean?

Speaker 2 (37:35):
What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Because when I was kind of coming up, I wanted
to quit my job on Wall Street. At some point
said I don't want to do this. So I said
to myself, how am I going to do that? Right?

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Like, I'm in job and I've got bills.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
And I at that point, I wasn't married and have kids,
so I was in a very lucky position versus now
it would be daunting if I had to.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Quit and keep my nose corporations.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
I'm not telling you to quit, everybody, but whatever goal
it is that you want to achieve, I started. I
had somebody who's a magician stand in front of me
and break down my bs for me. He didn't even
do it to be nice. He just goes, you, what
are you still doing working at that job?

Speaker 2 (38:09):
And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, you
love it?

Speaker 1 (38:11):
And he started asking me these very pointed yes or
no questions that I in the book tell you to
ask yourself.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
And I go, well, I don't know, you know, I
never thought of it that way.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
I love it's a job. And he goes, do you
want to be doing this in twenty years? And my
gut reflex was no. And he goes, well do you
love performing? I go yes, and he goes, so what's
the problem right now? Well, I make this much money
and he goes, okay, so how much do you need
to make? And I like, I never thought of this stuff.
It's so silly, But so much of the time you're
an autopilot. Life is so busy that you don't stop
to think what do I really want in a year,

(38:41):
in five years and ten years.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
It's so far in the future.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Especially so many young faces you're starting your career, think
what do you want to do? So I started defining
it and I just came up with this number and
I'm like, I want to make this much money.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
And to me, it was just like the silly throw
out there goes all right, how much you make it? Now?

Speaker 1 (38:55):
I'm like, you know, what are we getting naked here?
Like I just told him everything, and then he goes,
so it looks to me like you need to book
one more show per week in charge ten percent more?

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Can you do that?

Speaker 1 (39:06):
And it was just it's so silly, but it was
so eye opening that when it was put that way,
I go, yeah, yeah, fit, I can do that, and
it goes, so what's the problem. And it's just if
you can have somebody open your eyes and give you
realizations of what it is you really want define it
and then start taking measurable steps in that direction, you

(39:26):
can start to achieve it. And so I wasn't like
a special unique person. I just set myself up for success.
Especially in college. I was working three jobs. I had
my own business. I was working like all different stuff
to save money because whenever it was going on like
a vacation or they had a car, I bought my
car for two grand in cash that I worked. Again,
I'm not telling you, I'm not comparing, but I delayed

(39:48):
gratification and didn't go on like vacations. When they went
on spring break, I was eating ramen and rice with
ketchup with My life is so grossed out, so that
don't admit that.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
But I'm like, I had no money.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
I want to save this money so that then when
the opportunity came and I wanted to quit my job,
I had a nest egg to give me a runway
for a year that if I hadn't maybe I wouldn't
have done that. Maybe you and I would not be
talking right now if I hadn't done that, and I'd
be middle management at a Wall Street company. There's worse
things to me, But that wasn't my destiny. And I
had to make those steps happen.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
How hard is it to earn a living as a menalist?

Speaker 1 (40:23):
So that's difficult question because I can't really define what
the average mentalist is doing for you.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
For me, it's going very well.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
But uh, I'm very blessed and I can't complain, like, yeah,
things are going very well.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
And part of it is you wanted to control your
own schedule. You've got five kids, you didn't want to
be away from your family so much, and you wanted
to really have much more control of your life. Yes,
I know that you've had positive experiences out in the world,
but you also talk about some of the disastrous ones.
And one was that my former place of employment, the

(40:57):
Today's show, Oh my God, when things didn't go so
well when you appeared and my friend Al Roker kind
of tripped you up. Yep, what happened.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Okay, So live TV, which you know so well, is live.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
There is no like do over, time out, and there's
a clock running right there and the clock doesn't stop
for anyone. And so for me, when I'm performing, I
can get more time to get myself out of a situation.
So as I've learned and I've got to answer your
question in two parts. I don't mean to duck it.
But you said when things go wrong. So what I've

(41:29):
learned over time is that define wrong. You only know
if something's wrong if you know what right was supposed
to be. We here's what I mean. You don't know
what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna pick your own adventure.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Right.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
If you're playing sports, you win or you lose. What
I do has shades of gray. So if I don't
define where I'm going with it, I can do this
and this and oh.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
My god, I duck and weaven.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
You don't realize something went completely wrong because I went
to a different ending.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
It's the director's cut.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
So I've learned how to kind of misdirect you from
what might go wrong. Does that make sense? So I've
had shows go wrong that people in your arts have
no idea. I just totally fumbled, but it went amazing
because you didn't realize that was my third backup.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
The third backup still look great.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
So in this situation, because this is going back seven
or eight years ago, I took a very big, big swing.
There is no backup. If it doesn't work, you should
watch this clip.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
But I have al I think it was Tameran. I
want to forget anyone. I think it was Chanelle.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
I can't remember everybody that was with me, but I
had this bit where I had magazines like dump a
bunch of magazines, old magazines on the table. Pick anyone
you want, flip to any page, pick any word you want,
change your mind as many times. And it was a
presidential election, and I said, pick any word right now,
change your mind. We're on live TV, so nobody thinks
we set this up. That's the key, change your mind.
And so I think Tameran Hall has it, and not

(42:47):
to believe with the point, I said, al right, now
somebody's gonna run for president in the next election. Who's
it going to be? And right at that moment, I'm
gonna have to rip my shirt and reveal it. And
he goes George Clooney and there's like twenty seconds left
on the clocks. Learn my T shirt does not have
a picture of George Clooney on it. Okay, so what
should be happening right now? My heart rate if you

(43:07):
had me in like a whoop or something, was like
one hundred and ninety. But what I've learned And what's
very funny is that my running, which people always say
does that have any parallel? It does is I can
maintain a very low heart rate. It's very similar to
sniper that. Now I'm serious. I'm actually not joking because
the training is similar that my body does not show
panic when I feel it. Now, I know you think

(43:30):
this is silly, but humans can detect panic by almost
by sense of smell and sight. You can detect when
someone's tense, and it gives you attention because it goes
to our animal instincts.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
It's fight or flight.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
So if I get tense, I know it doesn't sound
like it, you will sense it, and I will go
into a spiral where it literally will sink the trick
because I'm influencing you. The more casual, the more we're relaxed,
the more I can influence your thoughts. It's actually it
works based on how you feel. That's what I'm doing.
So if al Roker noticed that I'm panicking, it's gonna

(44:01):
go downhill. So I'm totally nonchalant and I just say
to him, Elle, and you can see the book where
I go, it's gotta be a guy that and he
started feeling like, oh my god, why I had to
say it had to be a guy. He almost felt
like he offended, and I go, oh oh, and he
just changes in the time the clock is almost down,
I go, who's it gonna be? I I'm changing It's
Taylor Swift. And right then I rip over my shirt
and it's a picture of Taylor Swift and he changed mine.

(44:21):
And then I said, quick, tell me what's the slogan
gonna be of her campaign? And Tammer goes, I don't know.
I picked the word independence. And I turn around and
at the top it says hashtag independence.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
So they freaked out.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
They bumped the next segment, okay, which does not happen
off it on the Today Show author the poor author
who saw me in the green raft. I'm like, I'm
so sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm not sorry, but i'm sorry.
I get four more minutes on TV. And so they
had a debrief because they could not like their brain
was melted because the T shirt couldn't change. She could
have picked any word. She even swore that she changed

(44:56):
her mind at the last moment to that word. So
they needed to understand how could this have happened? And
the reason that that played so strong is because of
the danger the dangerous that could have gone wrong.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
It almost did.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
And to answer your question, the lessons I learned there
is one, have better backup plans in the future. Second,
you need to stay calm. You need to stay calm,
and that's a great lesson in life. I am just
like everybody else here. I get pissed off. I am
on the verge of writing a nasty email to somebody.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
You know what I do?

Speaker 1 (45:29):
I remove them from the two line yes, and I
put an alarm in one day. I'm a huge I'm
psychotic with alarms. I do alarms on Alexa. I do
alarms on my phone. It is a like hidden gem,
and I go in twenty four hours. If I still
feel the same way, I'm gonna hit send. And that's
very few and far between. If I ever sent that
exact same email a day later, I don't act in anger.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Can I give you one.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
More little little please? So this one I call fast
forward the feelings. I am a major procrastinator. Everyone's gonna think,
oh man, this guy's energetic. Get my wife up here.
She's like, no, he's full of crap. He doesn't do
the things he doesn't like to do, because going and
running twenty miles I enjoy, even though it sounds nuts.
But things I don't enjoy are confrontation. I don't like confrontation.

(46:13):
I don't like when I have to call somebody and
give them bad news. I'll dread it. I'll avoid it.
Everyone has their things they don't like to do, so
I will procrastinate the things I don't like. I now
have forced myself to say, right now, how do I
feel anxiety?

Speaker 2 (46:27):
One to ten?

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Dread about doing this thing I don't want to do,
and I'll be like, I'm a seven right now, God,
I don't want to do it, And I'll put an
alarm and say rank firing or whatever you're gonna do,
rank doing this thing twenty four hours from now, and
then I'll go I'm doing it right now. I do
the call, I handle it, and then done. And then
when the alarm goes off, I've forgotten about this. The
next day, I look at the thing. How do I feel?

(46:49):
I'm a one or two? And so what just happened?
Everybody think about this, because your brain is the most
amazing processor and computer in the world. Nothing happened, but
time feelings you're in control of. So how do I
feel now after I did it? I don't feel any
anxiety or dread. So if I can just take this
and trick my brain the same way I trick your
brains when I perform, I'm gonna feel like that now.

(47:13):
So what I do is I just fask on my feelings.
Right when I feel the dread, I go, I know
I'm a seven or eight. Now that's fake. I'm gonna
feel like a one or two tomorrow. So I just
say to myself, Nope, I'm gonna handle this now. I'm
gonna feel so much better. And I force myself not
to procrastinate. And I'm telling you, just do it. Just
do it with one thing in the next forty eight hours.
Try it with an alarm, get it on your phone.
I know it sounds so silly, but it's you have

(47:34):
to actually try this, just like my kid has to
touch a stove once to feel what it's like. You
can't explain it to that, but I haven't done that
to my children.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Don't call. But but you have to learn. You have
to learn it.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
So I did that a few times with the alarm,
with the whole bit that I just told you. And
as soon as you do and you realize the dread
is just in your mind. The procrastination for so many
things is just your own thing. It's taking the first step.
That's always the hardest part for procrastinators like me. It's
getting over the first thing and then starting the same
as writing the book, writer's block was killing me, and
then I realized I don't like sitting in a computer,

(48:07):
So I've dictated the whole book while running. The whole
book was while running, true.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
You're insane. If you want to get smarter every morning
with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on
health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our
daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com.

(48:39):
Does anyone have a question for before he does his thing?
Do we have time for a quick question?

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (48:46):
We have shy people here, anybody.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Seriously, I've never not been running question. John already asked
me what's the powerball numbers?

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Boy? I got here, go bigger, go home.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
So's the question was? Did he have a backro?

Speaker 2 (48:58):
So I have backup plans?

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Because again I'm planting thoughts, so I'm not just so
he is going down a path where there's six different roads,
eight different roads.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
I've limited him to a very few. That's truly the case.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
He went down the wrong one, so I had to
find a way to get him to think that he
went down the right one. It could have gone wrong.
I'm swearing to you on my life. There was no
way that if that went wrong, the clock ends, we
go to commercial. If I had two more minutes, I
could have fixed it, no matter what.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
But the backup plan always needs more time.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Other than this, Savana at Horizon Media, what was the
coolest thing you were if you ever got to.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Do the silver Metal? That is a tough one. There is.
I don't know that that's the same.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
I think that one of the moments that really changed
my view of myself was America's Got Talented Finale.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
It was at Radio City Music Hall. I did. If
you watch it, it's this thing. It was pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
It had like these colored different colored chairs, and it's
not my favorite trick I've ever done, but it was
so risky and the producers know exist eactly how you
do it because they have somebody on staff who's like me,
who's a magic and mentalist producer and we're talking.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
About it and he's like, dude, this could go so wrong,
and like what are you? How are you?

Speaker 1 (50:08):
And you know, And that's been one of my skills
is I'm willing to take risks that others don't. So
when you could ask to compare mentalists, I'm willing to
take big risks because big risks lead to big rewards
and you have to really believe in yourself. So I
took a big risk there and it could have gone
so wrong. It came like just like that Al Roker.
If you knew the behind the scenes, it was like
a razor's edge. And then when it finished, just the relief,

(50:31):
the joy, and just the validation because I'm in New York.
This is my city, right, this is where I came
here when I was twenty one. This feels like home.
If you can make it here, you make it anywhere.
I'm in radio City and you use a call and
just like the reaction the There's been so many amazing
things since being on before the Super Bowl, having my
own show, like there's a lot of Emmy Like, there's
been a lot of things I've been very meaningful, But

(50:52):
that moment right there was just like I started like
Neo and the Matrix to be like, I believe I'm
actually wor the of doing this. Before that I didn't
really Okay, I'm good at this, but this validated me.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
All right, Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Mall.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Fools me. Yeah, yeah, yes, did.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
You have that question? You guys? Did you all hear that?

Speaker 2 (51:25):
John's like, can you just tell me?

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Low key like Mike's off, This room's cool, I'll sign
an NBA.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
How's the card in the orange?

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Let's do something, so Katie, I always like to be transparent, right,
journalistic integrity. When we're in the other room, I asked Katie,
and I said, I want you to picture this. And
I said that throughout the course of the interview, I'm
hoping to plant little thoughts in her mind. Now, I
don't think that she's gonna backtrack this and see how
but I told you that during the interview, I would
ask you to imagine yourself in a room for potentially

(51:58):
a milestone birthday. It doesn't have to elstone birthday, just
be in my but a room with all the people
you care about, but a big room where you invite
people from all different parts of your life, family, friends,
people you've probably worked with, people you've interacted with. You know,
these are people close to you that could be famous, fields,
all different people that in your life. If you were
throwing a big bash and a big celebration, you would
want them there. Can you right now? And this is

(52:20):
in the moment. Okay, this is what I call spontaneous
and impulsive. Can you start to see faces of various
people in this room? And obviously you've to make a
whole guest list, but can you start seeing and imagining
certain people in this room? So see someone right now, Okay,
a man, a woman, See somebody else, see somebody else,
and imagine you're turning, walking around them, You're waving, you're

(52:41):
saying hi, you see, oh my god, see that person.
Give me a little act. Yeah, look at that Katie smile.
It's like, oh my god, I haven't seen it so long.
When suddenly, this is the part I want. I said
the visualization exercise. You're turned this way and somebody taps
you on the shoulder. Okay, you get this tap on
the shoulder, you turn around and you look who it is,
and you look this person right in the eye.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Can you visualize this person's face? Can you see them,
I can so watch there's right away. This is fifty
to fifty. But I know it's a female. Is it
a female?

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Yes, of course it is. How did I know body language?
If it was a guy, there's typically a different touch,
a hair touch. Right, John's like, who is this guy?

Speaker 2 (53:20):
All right?

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Think of her first name, and I want you to
count the number of letters in her first name, just
to yourself.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Do it within your mind. So the nod was.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Relatively quick, right in essence, she said I'm done counting
without saying it out loud, but she didn't take a
really long time. If this is a long name, Alexandra, right,
if this is a very short name, it's three or
four letters, you don't really count that.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
You just know it.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
So you know, just by what I just told you
that this name is typically five, six or seven letters.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Look at her, she's looked a little nervous.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Right, it's un right obviously, And then I actually see
with five letters, isn't it? Yes, think of the different
letters in the name. Now we're playing a game of hangman.
See the five letters, and I want you to mix
them around so they're not in the right order. And
I want you to stop, and I want you to

(54:17):
just reach up. And I always like to see this.
You're indecisive about it. You know, I don't know which one.
I don't know which one. And then you just grab
out one letter? Did you just grab a letter out
of her first name?

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Do you want me to actually pretend to grab a letter?

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
It went look at this all method over here. I
did channeling Meryl Streep. So if you if you now again,
you didn't do the first letter?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Did you know? So?

Speaker 1 (54:38):
How did I know that? Because Katie's too she's a journalist.
She realizes that if she gave the first letter away,
the name becomes so much easier. Also, I said in
the name, as soon as you say that, nine out
of ten, nobody will do the first letter. It feels
like it's got to be in the middle. Did you
do the last letter?

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (54:55):
I knew it in but she does.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
To the end, and then you're gonna retry only one
one letter in the whole alphabet?

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Elicits a question, a question line? How are you right?
That feeling of a question?

Speaker 1 (55:06):
You raise your eyebrows, you notice a why you're thinking
a letter?

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Why aren't you?

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Yeah, close your eyes? Please can everybody in the room.
See it, Katie, open your eyes. Swear to us, this
is not stage, This is not set up. You could
have picked anybody you wanted. In fact, you just saw
all different people in this room in that moment.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
Am I right?

Speaker 1 (55:28):
There's you could have thought of anybody that could have
been attending your birthday party?

Speaker 2 (55:31):
True story true? What's her first name?

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Wendy?

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Wendy.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Now imagine that when you turn around, you turn around,
you see Wendy. And now if it was a birthday party,
I'm still holding the why no, no, throw the throw
the wine.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Kay's like, I'm so freaked. I don't in my hands
right now watching me.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Most people when they see you at a birthday party,
they go happy birthday, right, that's the standard. They go
Happy birthday. And that's what you'd expect. That's look this
way at me. Wendy sees you. She tapped you on
the shoulder. You don't know who would be until you
turn around.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
You saw her face.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
You filled in the blanks, and imagine that when she
does that, she says happy birthday.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
You look into each other's eyes. That was it.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Create memorable moments somebody will never forget. She didn't say
happy birthday, Katie. She said happy birthday, cats, didn't she? Yes,
she calls you cats? Yes, how did you know that?

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Hold the applause in apparently.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Well, do you have the piece of paper? John has
the piece of paper?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Wait?

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Hold on, I want to try one thing we had
people in the audience. How about we'll try one last
thing here. We'll have a fun one everyone in this audience.
I like to ask people a question.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
I asked you a.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Question if you could sit down and have dinner with
somebody famous, sit down or have an interview with somebody
famous right dead or alive, man, woman, whatever, fascinating question.
Who'd you have dinner with? Who'd you want to sit
down with? This is a fascinating question. I like to
ask people this question. Have you heard this before? You've
heard this before? People have heard this. It's an interview question.

(57:23):
It's one of those ones that gets you thinking. All right,
nod your head. If you've thought of somebody some of
you did? Quick, So you did it?

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yes, yes, range your end. If you have somebody, give
me a hand up. Okay, beautiful, let's see how about
right over. I'm going to go one more time. Hand up,
let's seeh seems enthusiastic. Right over here, you're sat in
the front row. She wanted in, what is your name?

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Sam? Have you ever spoken a word in our life? Okay? Sam?
Did you? Did you have your phone? Grab your phone
for a second? Okay?

Speaker 1 (57:53):
I like one guy just looked at me, had his
phone in hand, deleted his browser history. Sam, if you could,
I'm gonna have you go to like Chrome or Safari
or a browser. I don't care what you got it.
And then we've got Sam and one more person.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Look, I saw Daisy I met earlier, had her hand.
I was like, what about me, Daisy? Let me ask
you a question. Who is sitting next to you? Tell
everybody who's sitting next to you? Richard?

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Do you think that Richard would know who you went
with in this case? Okay? Not a good listener, apparently,
I'm I'm kidding. How would he know? But that's good.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
That means that it wasn't an obvious choice, because if
you're like, oh my god, of course you know, then
she would have picked somebody. Obviously her husband would have known.
I like that, that's difficult. You have your phone, grab
your phone? You're in Okay, so do this.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
I want you. Oh, if we go to Google, I
like how you're so polite. You're on D and D
the whole time.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Okay, whatever, we go to Google, I want you to
take a few steps away.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Where can we go? Like maybe behind this camera?

Speaker 1 (58:54):
You ready go over here wherever you want to go
and hide behind them so nobody could see this. And
I want you if you could do an image search.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Is that all right?

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Just come on closer? Oh, not too far. I want
you to find a picture of your person. You're right,
and do it in next ten seconds. Make sure no
one's looking behind you. Have you done it?

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Hold it close to your chest. Let's see. Let's see.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Okay, think if it's a man or woman. Think if
it's a man or a woman. Let me watch the reaction,
see the tension. It's not what you did before.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
You a female? Guy? One hundred percent? Is it a guy? Yes?

Speaker 1 (59:26):
I could tell Richard just goes, he goes, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
I think it's a female. Is it's a female? It's
a guy? Okay?

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Interesting if I got to write every time everyone show
oh yeah, she knew what to do. See she used
it against me. That's perfectly fine. A guy, I want
to ask you a question. You could be completely honest
when you thought of the first person, did you instantly
know you're gonna go with him? Were you debating people
you knew instantly? Okay, why do I think that? Why
do I think that?

Speaker 2 (59:55):
You know?

Speaker 1 (59:55):
You never know what these things? It's not a magic trick.
I like how the guy it was like, did it
go wrong with al Roker's like, it's about to go
wrong here too? Yeah, Sam, we got him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
It's been it's been heavy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
You know what I thought, I'm gonna show you this,
I thought, I thought, Sam, you know what, we didn't
really do. We didn't go to politics. I did not
the right spot. I think you went in the world
of entertainment. I'm done. It's it's somebody who's in the
world of entertainment. Is that correct? My gut says those
who can tell you know what gets stuck in your head? Songs?

(01:00:32):
You get a song, you can't get it out of
your head. You could try, you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Singers. Is she hearing a song in her head? Singer?
Tell us all what's his name? Who is he? Don't
ever doubt me? Horizon Media. Don't you don't you want.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
Katie, I stopped you because I did our DJ I
didn't take it out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
I don't know what that Okay, you didn't get me. Yeah,
that's uh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
I had somebody recently do a name in Mandarin and
they were like, we're gonna flex on you, like, don't
you don't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. I got this.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I gave you a piece of paper with Robert Downey Jr.
And we got to go fast because I have a
school event. I want you to reach up, lock it in,
and I want you to throw it any direction you
want and someone else catch someone, close your eyes, throw
it somewhere, someone catch anybody, or Katie, throw it in
the only place where there's nobody in the room for
the live stream work.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
It's all I'm totally kidding. Who's got it? Who's got it?
What is your name? Laura? Did I say correctly? Have
we ever spoken a word in our life? Do you know? Daisy?

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Okay, here's what we do, Laura. My book is not
going to teach you to be a mentalist. Frankly, I
know that sounds cool, but it's not that useful, right.
I want to empower you think like a mentalist. Use
my skills to your advantage. And so what you're gonna do,
You're gonna be my protege right now, So come on up,
let's bring up what's here for Laura?

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
I gotta move you on this way so you can
see you got you're deciding to see anything? Daisy? Can
I move you? Can I move you a step or
two back here? Just grab you don't need your phone,
you don't need anything. Grab a pad of paper, Grab
a marker, Laura, throw it over your shoulder.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
You don't need it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
All right, here's the game. You are going to be
my mind reader. So what I want you to do
is right now, the O open the market yet? Is
I want you to give us your best mind reading pose?
Hit it like this?

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Yeah, okay, how is she going to do this? You
threw that ball anywhere, Katie. This could be anyone. You
can open your eyes. Okay, Daisy, you could have thought
of anyone. Right, You don't know each other, Laura. I
want you to come next to me, right, believe it.
In order to achieve it, Picture that somewhere in Daisy's
home there is a Okay, I don't know if there is,

(01:03:01):
but we're making this up. And then if we flip
through the pages, we stop on a page, and on
that page at the top, this is who would I
want to have dinner with? And we rip that page out.
Now I'm gonna pretend to hold a page in front
of me. But look in my hands. There's not actually
paper or anything in my hands.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
No, But in a moment, she will swear up and
down that she's seeing a piece of paper in front
of her clear as day. It's gonna feel almost like
I'm hypnotizing you. And bring it a little closer. Give
me one more mind reading post, and now open your eyes.
Look this way and me looks away me. I take
this piece of paper. Can you guys kind of move
you over this way?

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Key?

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
I just want to make sure you can you see
me or no? And and I want you well, I've
never had people above me. I gotta move you this way.
This is there in the skybox. Is I want you?
Oh mind reading posts? Yeah, come on, get method look
this way, and I let the piece of paper drop.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
And it's about to be the moment you don't see
anything yet. Watch when I snap my fingers.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
That's when you get hypnotized and I want you to
look down in my hand, and I want you to
nod your head if you're playing along and you see it,
clearest day, and I want your lord to close your eyes,
close your eyes closures, and I want you to keep
saying the name over and over in your head. Now, folks,
imagine what if the ball that Katie had thrown had
been caught by you and you were up here on
stage with some crazy mentalists trying to pretend like you

(01:04:14):
saw a journal. What would you do in this moment?
Keep your eyes closed, open the marker. Please write down
your person's first and last name. Write down that person's
first and last name, nice and big, go ahead. Make
sure that she is not peeking, that she cannot see
a thing you wrote it, Big, open your eyes if
she's even close. I don't want this half hearted energy

(01:04:36):
I've been getting so far Wednesday afternoon. I want Friday night.
I want pandemonium. If lightning strikes at Horizon Media, there
better not be one butt still in a seat unless
you are mobility impaired.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Don't look in her eyes, look into her soul.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
And Laura tell Daisy who is she sitting down to
dinner with Michael?

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Turn Around Show, Everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Show, Everybody Show, Everybody, Daisy Show, Everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Show.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Thank you very much, everybody, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
That was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,
a subject you want us to cover, or you want
to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,
reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would
love to hear from you. Next Question is a production
of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me,

(01:05:57):
Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Supervising producer is Ryan Martz,
and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian
Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,
or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call,
go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

(01:06:19):
us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me
on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Katie Couric

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Life Advice from a Mentalist with Oz Pearlman