May 11, 2023 • 39 mins
When Academy-Award winning filmmaker Davis Guggenheim set out to make Still, a film about Michael J. Fox, he imagined he’d be making a hybrid documentary/80s movie. What he discovered along the way, however, was something deeper: his subject is far more than an iconic mega-star — Michael is an inspiration. After decades of living with the degenerative and debilitating effects of Parkinson’s disease, Michael J. Fox reveals his personal philosophy: “With gratitude, optimism is sustainable.” Katie’s conversation with Michael and Davis is funny and revealing, and traces the highs and lows of creating a film about an incurable optimist trying to overcome an incurable disease.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.
So I have a confession to make. I love Michael J.
Fox and I love Tracy Pollin. I have known this
couple for several years now. I've interviewed Michael many times
through the years, and I have to admit both of
(00:25):
them are my personal heroes. But when I saw Still,
the newly released documentary that chronicles his life, I felt
like I got to know Michael in a whole new way.
The film is part eighties movie featuring Michael as the
unlikely hero and is charming, supercharged, always on the move way,
(00:46):
but it's also such a deeply, profoundly personal story because
it features Michael as another kind of unlikely hero, as
someone who's fighting a battle every second of every day
with Parkinson's disease.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It seem to a dance you do in this this
thing that I'm doing that I'm playing with his pill.
I'm moving this same movement. I said, I'm finding ways
to negotiate with this thing that's with me all the time,
and so I'm having a conversation with you, but I'm
also having this this WCO Roman wrestling match with his
(01:23):
monster is my Brain.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Academy Award winning filmmaker Davis Guggenheim, who I also admire
a ton, spent three years making this documentary, capturing Michael's struggles,
but also getting up close and personal with what motivates Michael,
and that is a deep connection to his family, a
gigantic heart, and the knowledge that he is encouraging so
(01:49):
many other people dealing with Parkinson's.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
He's actually the sweetest guy, the most wonderful guy I've
ever worked with.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
On today's episode of Next Question, you'll hear how the
filmmaker and the subject of Still came together to create
an unforgettable portrait of a dear friend and an incredibly
courageous man who has so much to teach us about
what it means to live and appreciate every single day.
(02:20):
I'll yeah, is it okay, okay, good?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
All right.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
First of all, Hi guys, I'm so happy to see
you both. Davis. It's been a long time, Mike, less long,
but always love being with you. I finished watching the
documentary and I have one word for both of you,
which is wow. I loved it. I thought, I mean,
I love Michael, so I was predisposed, but there's so much.
(02:49):
I want to talk to you all about and I
guess the first question is is for Mike, why now?
Why did you want to do this documentary? Now becos?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
He asked me.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I think really I was just hanging out, not doing anything,
and kind of like the air was ripe with the
opportunity united and what the opportunity was to do something
interesting and and Davis called me, and I think I
said some things that he liked, which, as I said,
if we do this, I'm not interested in editing you.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I'm not interested in making a.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Movie about how I got you to make a movie
I want to make Yeah, I want you really just
so you are at it and so it happens. And
as far as why now, the more complicated answer, which
is that I broke my hand.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Can't play histar anymore, my handshakes.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I can't draw anymore. I can't paign anymore. I can't
I can't all this stuff. I can't do that I
ever could, but things I enjoyed and things that gave
me peace, and he gave me a sense of doing
doing something and now and my life has become my clay.
And I was like, throw it back, were going to
make something else of it, and that's what this is.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It really was an opportunity for you to be creative
in another way and to look back on your life.
And Davis, before I talk to you about the really
unique way that you made this film, which is a
visual amalgamation and audio amalgamation of Michael's life, why did
(04:25):
you decide you wanted to do a documentary about Michael J. Fox.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I was on Martha's vineyard during COVID and feeling pretty low,
feeling in a personal rut and a professional rut, and
feeling like I just made the same movie over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And I was.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Looking not just for a movie, but just for some lifeline.
And I started reading his book No Time Like the Future,
and there was wisdom in it for me in an
unexpected place. I didn't think I was going to find
wisdom from a.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Movie, he says dismissively. He's written four books. Did you
read all four of them? Davis? Ultimately, Yeah, the.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Deep dive into all his stuff and it's easy to
sort of say, oh, that's a that's a famous person
just writing something. First of all, he's a great writer.
There's a great storytelling in it, and there's humor and
wisdom in it that I personally needed.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So you decided to tackle this project, and you had
some challenges because there was limited footage of Mike as
a little boy. Although God blessed those class photos. They
killed me. Honestly, they are priceless. I'm so glad you
(05:46):
kept those. So there were some things from Michael's childhood.
But there were also limitations in terms of how you
got the visual vocabulary to tell Michael's story. So put
together the pieces of the puzzle, because I know it
was sort of a conversation between you and your editor
and you were trying to figure out, like, how do
(06:08):
we tell this story?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Right? So with the glue of all this is Michael's
great writing and his voice carries the movie. But then
there's part, like you say, they're parts of his life
that were there weren't cameras, and so my my solution
was re enactments. But Michael Hart, this brilliant editor from
Donegal Ireland, Michael Fox's clapping right now quietly and and
(06:32):
and his solution was to use some of Michael J.
Fox's movies.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It was brilliant.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I'm not period in ways that I would never have.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Imagined, right, So you give me an example when.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I was falling a little Tracy, I was so in
love with the schirl and we were seeing other people
in it. She just only did the show for short
any time, so I thought, he's just gonna go away?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Person, Am I just going to see you anymore?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And and a great moment our car is really a
nice metaphor when when she was leaving the show for
the last time and Mike car was parked next to
her car at parking lot, her rental rabbit in my Ferrari.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That yeah, I mean, doesn't that say it all?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
By the way, Mike, Oh my Ferrari, you get in
my Ferrari to get into a rabbit to talk about
about and I guess she's really worried about me. He's
just girl, I'm only in love with this one and
see her again she thinks I'm gonna die in partying
to her and a you have the job, bab having
(07:37):
lunch and she we got married two years later. So
so it was this amazing moment. We shot the big
scene down in a Grance village walking through the streets
and the characters.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Falling in love from bright lights, big city, big.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
City and I was the person who was living in
that and I felt the.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Same, but on a date in the movie, but they're
also dating and lit by Gordon Willis, the guy who
shot The Godfather. So it's like beautiful, beautiful there in silhouette,
and her first line is I was looking at the
other night. She goes, I guess I'm supposed to be
impressed by your big, fancy job, which is true for
the characters in that movie, but it was also true
(08:19):
in their life. He had just done back to the
future and he's he's she's still not impressed.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
But that's but it's true in so many cases. You've
found a place for art imitating life and it really
works so well. I was curious where this came from
the beginning of the film, Michael wakes up and he
notices his his pinkiest fluttering. I think you showed Michael
in bed, so you you intercut a reenactment. Tell me
(08:49):
about that scene and why you chose to start with that.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Why do we start there? It cuts to Michael present
time in bed as well, right, and this is great line,
which is, uh, he's about what pinky is, and it's
like this, this is a message from the future, right,
which is obviously incredible reference to Back to the Future,
but also gave me this incredible optunity to jump forward
(09:12):
in time to Michael.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Now and double time.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
There really are And obviously the title of the film
is still, but you use that in contrast with Michael,
who was for so long just and still is in
constant motion, right, you know. And you you allude to
that Michael towards the end about sort of always moving,
(09:38):
always moving, And it's amazing how many of those shots
that you all found beautifully illustrated sort of the frenetic
energy of Michael.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, there's a feeling that and this is in your
book because all these go back to Michael's writing. But
for a long time, you're running towards something, which is
what what you said, that would be the destiny, future, future, fame, Hollywood,
you know. And then of course he's running away from
Parkinson's always running, always running, always running.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
The biggest thing was me watching movies. You sucked me in.
I felt I was watching a movie and like, even
though it was about me, I just.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
When you saw all those scenes, did you feel like
you were watching your life flash before your eyes in
a way.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Very much, very much. It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
We all have this fantasy where someone takes your life
and goes, this is it. You look at some total
of what you've done and what you've accomplished, what you
haven't accomplished, who you love, who loves you, and it
was all there. I had this gift, he and me,
this is really amazing, and I guess I am who
I thought I was, which kind of nice.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
When we come back, you'll hear what really happened when
Michael was told off by his now wife Tracy on
the day they met. We're back with Michael J. Fox
(11:09):
and Davis Guggenheim.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Can I ask that question, Katie, because yeah, you make
your film, it's over, and then you have a new question.
And I don't think I ever asked this, but because
now I see Michael as this incredible role model, he's
become the spectacular human. Did you have any intention of
being this person? Now?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
No, I just wanted to drag all the beard and
going to their girlfriends.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
It's always said, you know, in in forty years, you're
going to be this guy who starts a foundation.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
In this That's that's that's weird.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
That's weird.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I'm telling you what you know because you did it.
But but this is moving towards.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Something and moving away from something, moving towards the signing
of his kid is gonna leave Canada?
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Who does that?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Right?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
You don't move from Canada to California at seventeen is preposterous.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I thought one of the great things about the film
was I didn't realize how hard it was when you
first got to La I got you illustrated that really well.
You know when when Michael had to sell his sectional couch,
you know, bit by bit, how you know you were
living on McDonald's and you were eating I think you
said you would get those little jam or jelly packets
(12:24):
and eat those. I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean talk
about like a starving artist. But that was really fun
to watch those family ties moments, and particularly because Gary
David Goldberg did not want him. I remember reading about
this in any way, shape or form. He didn't want you,
Brandon Tartakoff didn't want you. Said you were never going
(12:46):
to be on the front of a lunch box, and
you send him a lunchbox with something like here I
am love Michael or whatever you're crowing. Oh yeah, oh
this is this is to put your crow in. Well,
you were kind of a dick a little bit, you know,
doing family ties. You got, as my mom would say,
a little big for your breeches, and you would admit that.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And that footage.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Very demanded shot and you could even tell that Justin
Bateman was like rolling her eyes, like this guy is
so annoying and obnoxious, right, and yeah, no, I saw
how many shots and I saw it? Yeah, exactly, and
(13:35):
she's rolling her eyes. So you were being kind of
a tool and and got a little full of yourself.
And you talk about a scene you were in with
Tracy Coolin, who is also a friend who I adore,
and she had garlic breath, and you made some joke
about how was that trump scampy, a.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Little scampy for lunch, babe scampy when the documentarian has
to do the one liner, you're in trouble.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
The baby.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Tracy looked you in the eye and said that was
really mean, that was cruel and you were.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
A complete fucking asshole.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, and that really since you were the golden boy.
In fact, you saying the documentary nobody had really ever
talked to me like that.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, got a little chubby got a little chubby in
that moment, little turned on by how cool she was was.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Oh, you got a little chubby. Sorry, I didn't know
what you were talking about. That took me a few minutes. Okay,
well thanks for that. So but I was going to
ask you, is that one of many things that attracted
(14:54):
you to her that she just like was direct and
told you exactly what you needed to hear it that time.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, she's brilliant that way. She just can see things clearly.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
And this is a really difficult time for her right
now with me getting all this attention for this film,
because because she's not me, she's her and like to
this day, I mean that, I love that. It makes
me full of love for her. I just think, yeah, absolutely,
she hadn't have partisans.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I have partisans.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
She has experienced it every day and she has to
and I have to make sure I find the room
for her to be her separate from this. And that
was kind of like what you were saying that the
first thing I was saying, I'm not here to play
your game and I don't have.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
To put up with your being a jerk. I'll just
scrap Davis. I'm just curious as an outsider, as a filmmaker,
someone who has spent time with both of them now
a lot of time, what have you observed about their relationship,
because they are just quite remarkable.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I agree, And one thing they share is devotion to family.
Michael is a complete open book and making this movie,
but both Tracy and Michael were protective of their family.
It's like, not just to keep them off camera, but
just to they have their own lives. I'm not I
don't speak for you, guys, but that's what Tracy and Hey,
(16:23):
this film shouldn't even remotely detract from what they're doing.
What they're doing in their own lives is more important
that devotion to family. I think is is really really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But let's let's talk kids.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Up.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
People said, said ask about Parkinsons.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
They would not they didn't get it, they wouldn't get
the connection, they wouldn't like it was never a big
part of our lives. Are my fame with a big
part of their lives their own lives are really interesting
people for sweet people, the very kind.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
People, very unpretentious and they're not of themselves. They never
right on your celebrity or trac and it's amazing that
all of your kids turned out to be such normal, good, hardworking,
kind people. There's so many great stories and obviously the
foundation of the documentary is Michael talking. And how many
(17:19):
days did you spend doing those interviews?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
I almost didn't do them at all. So my first
idea was no interviews. I wanted just to make a
movie where you get lost in the footage.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
What I pitched to Apple was I wanted to make
a documentary that felt like an eighties movie. And then
I did this commercial. This dpiece showed me the shot
where the camera's right here and Michael and I are
like look at each other, like really really close. Usually,
you know, sometimes you're ten feet away, right, and there's
lots of people and a guy geting a sandwich, and
(17:50):
you know, and this one angle, Michael could look me
in the eye, but it looks like he's looking into
the camera, right. I said, that's I'm going to try that.
And we went to your office on Fifth Avenue and
we did that one interview and it was just electric.
Like you see in the movie. He's just so winning,
(18:12):
he's so charismatic, he's so funny, so.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Intimate and so honest and so so.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Really honest, and I go, wow, this is the core
of the movie. And so that one setup we did
six days over a year.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
So the last thing we shot was that last one
with your last therapy session with Ryan.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
The process of even doing that interview was probably pretty
tiring for Michael.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
A lot happened in that year we're shooting. It was
you call it, we tell your doctor. It was a
festival self abuse.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
I kept breaking him in.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
You broke your hand.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I broke both arms. I broke my shoulder, hit my
shoulder replaced. I brought my face. I broke my elbow
and it was really painful. It was in the hospital.
I'm down for a good time.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't want to be a jerk anybody, but it's constantly, constantly,
I always say, what do you think I'm doing?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
And doing something else, and it's just the fact of
your life.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Everything that I do, Like the movie, everything happens in
the context of Negoshi with this thing.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You know, I want to talk about three moments in
the movie that really affected me. So you were diagnosed
at twenty nine and nineteen ninety one, is that right?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
And then you told the world you had it ninety
eight and you're dealing with so much and then you're
dealing with having to keep this a secret. And I
was curious, looking back on it, now, do you have
any regrets about not telling the world? Was you were
(20:00):
really afraid? And you talk about this in the film
if people would accept you, if they would find you funny,
you know what the reaction would be. But at the
same time, harboring this secret must have been so much
pressure on you as well.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, it was. It was hard.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I'm Tracy was amazing during that time, and she got
me too, like like I had to figure out how
to keep a secret and I quit drinking, So that
was that was interesting. And then and then I was
I was she was dangerous losing my marriage and losing
my family. One of the things really affected me in
a great way and paid off downline was when I
(20:40):
said I had Parkinson's and all this fuss happened on
tabloids and stuff, and I got these chat rooms with.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
The Parkinson's patients who didn't know it was me, and I.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Talked to him and said, what about this Michael fun
And they said, I love that he had Parkinson's. And
when I got over the shock these people celebrating the
fact that I had parties.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
So I got it.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I went, I get it, and then my goal began
to get to the point where eventually got to I
could step into that and saying here's what I can't do,
here's what I can't do, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So that's when you started the fat Foundation. You know,
I did have to laugh when you used that sort
of cloying Barbara Walters interview, May She Rest in Peace?
That was sort of unctuous and inappropriate. What did she say, Davis.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
You're in the fight for your life.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
It's almost the way she said it more than her words, right,
because you were afraid that audiences would treat you differently.
And I love the line when Michael said, oh my god,
what have I done, because he was now being subjected
to that kind of maudlin pitying kind of interaction, and
(22:00):
you were like, holy shit, was it better when I
kept it a secret just for that nanosecond. The other
moment that I was very taken by was when you
were with your physical therapist. You said something along the
lines Michael, of people are looking to me, they're looking
to me fighting this disease, and I can't let them down.
(22:24):
Your physical therapist said, you know, you don't always have
to be Michael J. Fox, And it made me think
what a huge responsibility and how unfair in many ways
that was to you. And I wondered, Gosh, does Mike
ever think I don't want to be the goddamn poster
child for Parkinson's disease. I wondered about that, because you've
(22:46):
got so much you're dealing with already, as you said,
simultaneously navigating what's happening in your brain every moment while
trying to carry on a conversation while trying to walk
down the street in New York City and trying not
to fall. And then I'm like, this guy feels like
he can't let people down.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
It's a schnauz around your pant leg.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But no I think about that is that I'm fool
enough and ready enough to take that and and and
to move forward with it. And if it's a role
for me to play, I'll play because God damn, and
know all that's been said and done, I'm gonna lucky him.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
I'm like, I just keeps from Canada. I have his
beautiful wife, these great kids.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I'm a multimillionaire, I've got I got like this life
I've lived that should yes for me to step up
and do something. And and and so I started a
great privilege, great great opportunity, and and and I just
menasgued to running to great people along the way, and
and just just focus on what we needed to do.
And I guess the answer all your questions is just
(23:49):
not personal. It's not personal circumstance. It's a circus of circumstance.
And I just walk in the line, and I thought,
you know, there's something I can do here. And what
I could do was I could rally people. And I
don't take credit for I've done. I'm glad that I'm
part of a group of people that get this done.
Where I will take credit for, or I'm proud of
(24:11):
at least is there's a woman that's going to the grocery.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Store right now.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Twenty years I wouldn't have done a grocery store, wouldn't
fumble with the change first, wouldn't have risk the guy
in the part of I think she was drunk, but
she got into your car.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
It was a horrible life.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And now, perhaps because of me, to a certain extent
she could say, yeah, person like Michael Fox, But.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I wanted to ask you. I mentioned three parts of
the doc that really affected me, and one is when
you're talking to Michael and one of the interviews over
those six days. During one of those interviews, there's a
point in the film where you guys deal with what
you call shitty stuff, and Davis, you imply that Michael
darts away when you ask him how he feels and
(24:57):
you talk to him about are you in pain?
Speaker 3 (25:01):
So the film was finished. I mean I had a
version of the film that you could show someone and
it worked. It was great. But I remember watching it
with the editor, Michael Hart, and I go, just there's
something missing here because with all of Michael's optimism and
with all his insistence not to be pitied, which is
(25:21):
an important thing for me too, not to do that,
I realized that he didn't actually tell us the full
story of the year he's been through, and that he
wasn't pain. And of course the way you say it's
pretty funny, but it's like it's like it never came up.
I said, talked to you for hours and hours and hours,
(25:42):
you never talked about your pain. The first thing you
say is I'm in a tremendous amount of pain. And
I was actually really shocking when you said it to me,
because I was like, oh, like, you're really good at
hiding it. You really not only do not talk about it,
but you don't exhibit it, you know. And it's it's
a flip side of this optimism, right, And he just goes, well,
(26:03):
I'm not going to lead with it.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Are there moments, Michael when you're not not so brave?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'm brave as brave as I hear we're brave and
courage And I had no choice. I No, I mean like, like, okay,
let's be brave. So I guess the fall back is
I'm brave?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Well, I guess. I mean, do you ever allow yourself
to be furious? You know, to rage?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Wage away?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
I used to rage when I was younger. I like
when Tracey talks about I say, what was it?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Tack?
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Because I can see the pain in her face. I
can I can see how hard that was. AH like rage.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I don't feel rage now. I think the thing that
I feel now that that is not pleasant is I
haven't got a trick for it. There's no easy answer. No,
I can't I can't content.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I can't charm it. I can't I can't bush it
into the cornfield. You know, it's just it's just there.
I think a word.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I'm cops a certain amount of wisdom, hard and wisdom,
and I want to look at something and say, Okay,
I can look at this this way ten times and
never get anywhere and get pissed off and get frustrated,
or I can just go yeah, move on.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
It's more like, uh, acceptance, acceptance.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Acceptance is huge. Acceptance and gratitude. Well, everything I've ever
written is one one that I kind of go, well,
that's good.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
If that's that's my one one one that I write
in my life, I'm happy with that, which is with gratitude,
optimism and sustainable. If I can, I I'm something to
be grateful and every day I can win that day.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
That's great advice for everyone, honestly and so true. Up next,
how Michael's Foundation helped bring a game changing breakthrough in
Parkinson's research. If you want to get smarter every morning
with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on
(28:28):
health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our
daily newsletter Wake Upcall by going to Katiecuric dot com.
We're back with Michael and Davis. Although Parkinson's disease is
the second most common neurodegenerative disorder in the US after Alzheimer's,
(28:52):
the only course of action for patients is to treat
their symptoms, and unfortunately, by the time those symptoms are visible,
the disease is already well underway. That's why a major
goal for researchers has been to diagnose Parkinson's earlier and
develop interventions to slow it down or stop it altogether. Now,
(29:14):
the results of a major news study are in and
with monumental help from the Michael J. Fox Foundation, it
looks like earlier diagnosis may actually become a reality. The breakthrough,
announced this month in the journal Lancet Neurology, involves the
discovery of a biomarker called alpha sinnucleon. I talked with
(29:35):
Michael all about this important step. I wanted to talk
to you about the research for Parkinson's because you know,
as somebody who saw my dad's succumbed to the disease
and my dad died in twenty eleven, you were diagnosed
in nineteen ninety one. So much money, so much research,
(29:55):
so many brilliant scientists. Why has it been so so
hard to come up with better medication to control the
disease or even god willing a cure.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Talk to me about that diagnosis. You move funny and
you can't keep your hands still or whatever. And so
we run through a series of tests and it kind
of a subjective way till you get part with a
lot of times you're right.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
But that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
We've never had a biological way to say, yes, you
have these markers. So because that takes a lot of work,
because you got to take this common cohort of people
that have similar symptoms and problems and eliminate them. And
that's again that takes billions of dollars. Luckily we came
into billions of dollars. Yeah, and we found a way
(30:49):
to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
And this was like over a thousand patients from.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Right. We needed to get spinal taps, we needed to
get spinal fluid, which is hard to extract, it's very painful.
We get to get people who didn't have Parkers to
do small.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Tabs wow, which is like that's hard to do.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Let's take a needle in his fine. So but we
found enough people to do it.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
We found family members that love their family, love their
their and their uncle, their mom and their dad, and
subjected to themselves to this and that was a key thing.
So when I when I go through, when I thank
people for this, it really it takes a metropolis. It
takes a billion people to get this done. It's huge
(31:35):
what's happened because now we can get to the point
where where a four year old gets a swamp and
we found out they're gonna have Parkinsons in twenty years
and then we give them a pill and send them
on their way.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And so this was the Parkinson's Progression Markers initiative. Yeah,
and basically it found.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Out disc everything we could isolate this.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Protein, isolate a protein that is present in Parkinson's patients.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, and we can we can find a way to
isolate it and to see it laid bare and say
that's why.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
You have parking And does that mean you could potentially.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
The gate's opening and drug companies flooding in because they're
gonna make a billion jillion dollars How to stop the progression?
And imagine if you're just going to have a standard task,
because it's as easy as to swab or blood and
they say blood tests, you're about forty years away from it.
But you need to at Parkinson. So let's take this
(32:32):
tablet that the good people that this just came up
with it to the great financial glee, but but but
certainly to also to the benefit of mankind.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
So instead of treating it, it's preventing it. By diagnosing it,
even way way before you become symptomatic, you're preventing it.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Tell me if I have this right. But you know
when Michael seeing is doctor doctor Brestman is amazing doctor
at Mount Sinai incredible that this thing where she's having
him open and close his fingers, this is what someone
told me that that that thing is what doctors.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Have done for years, where you basically do that.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Because they have no other way of really seeing what
the parkins. And finally, this breakthrough is they can say
you have it with a test, and that, like Michael says,
opens up all this doors for more testing, for more tracking,
for more treatment.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yes, is that right?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
It's huge? Yeah, exactly right. It's a huge game changer.
It's massive.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
We have this one benefactor who's give us gigantic, gigantic
sos of money. And he when he first gave us
the money, I had a conversation with him, very differential
and very grateful, but I said, please tell me that
you might give me all this money, you come in
and run your agenda. He had to run our agenda,
(33:54):
he said. He said, no one else is going to
do it but you guys, And he gave us the money.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
He just more I can step back and said, please
do this important work. I mean, science moves so painfully slow.
Because I think about this took over nine years. As
you said, you had to find patients to do spinal
taps who didn't have Parkinson's. You had to I mean, I.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
Think I really intendivize them and get me out of
their office. But we got it done, cure them quickly.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
We got to get.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Going back to Canada.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well it's very exciting, but how far are we, Michael,
now that this breakthrough has happened, is it up to
the drug companies to figure out how to identify this
protein and how to figure out how to what to
do with it? And when you think about the future,
how long will that be you think?
Speaker 4 (34:49):
I think realistically at twenty years. Stick to this point,
I think that five or ten two or its marketable, viable.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And what's so exciting too, is you know, I've done
a lot of work in ALS as well. I had
a friend who died of ALS. I have a friend
who's dealing with ALS right now. And all these neuro
degenerative diseases are connected ALS, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Huntington's, and so
(35:18):
unlocking some of these mysteries will have such a huge
impact on all of these diseases.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
My favorite phrase is a rising tigless about and there
there'll be a lot of boats.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Slowly, which is so exciting.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
They laid it out for me and they said, this
is what we're looking for, and it was so preposterous.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I said, the amount of people you got to have
to do this, It just did, you know, authentically get
people in the world they care about Parkinson's.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
It's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
And I just leaned across the table to remember and
they said, he's not us who And that's really what's
few of us?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Well, thank god you did the simple way of putting
it is. It's a huge break through. Well, I want
to say that Michael J. Fox Foundation, as you found out,
Davis is just incredible and I've been a proud supporter
of it in honor of my dad, but also in
honor of Michael, because he's one of my personal heroes
(36:17):
and the fact that you know, he's very humble and modest.
But people have contributed two billion dollars to Parkinson's research
because of this guy, and because of my dad, and
because of their uncles and brothers and sisters and all
kinds of personal connections as well. But he has become
(36:39):
such a leader in this field.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
It's a zoo ras and out side of my family,
it is a best sator. I say when I'm my
corny things, it's a gift. It's a gift that keeps
on taking.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
But it's a gift. It's a gift that keeps on
taking and a gift that keeps on giving. Right. Yeah, Well,
I'm so happy that you all came in. Thank you Davis.
It's great to see you again. Michael. I mean, I
just want to I want to take you home, But
I don't think Tracy would love like you.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Haven't.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Hey, come on, that's gonna die. That was between us, Bonnie, right,
let to die about anyway? This was great. Is there
anything that you feel like you wanted to talk about that,
I didn't bring up.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
I wanted to thank him.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Go ahead for.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Putting this in my life right now.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
It's a great way to express myself and tell my
story and tell other people's story. And you're freaking gifted.
You just you an eye and a heart and mine
and I am passion and empathy that just is present
only in the best artists, and you're wanted them.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
You're one of the best artists.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
That's fun, great, just a wonderful three years of my life.
Thanks for Katie, This is really fun, of.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Course, thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question
for me, or want to share your thoughts about how
you navigate this crazy world reach out. You can leave
a short message at six h nine five P one
two five five five, or you can send me a
DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you.
(38:23):
Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media.
The executive producers are Meek, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz.
Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers are Adrianna
Fazzio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is Matt Russell,
who also composed our theme music. For more information about
(38:44):
today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake
Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app,
or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also
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For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.
So I have a confession to make. I love Michael J.
Fox and I love Tracy Pollin. I have known this
couple for several years now. I've interviewed Michael many times
through the years, and I have to admit both of
(00:25):
them are my personal heroes. But when I saw Still,
the newly released documentary that chronicles his life, I felt
like I got to know Michael in a whole new way.
The film is part eighties movie featuring Michael as the
unlikely hero and is charming, supercharged, always on the move way,
(00:46):
but it's also such a deeply, profoundly personal story because
it features Michael as another kind of unlikely hero, as
someone who's fighting a battle every second of every day
with Parkinson's disease.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It seem to a dance you do in this this
thing that I'm doing that I'm playing with his pill.
I'm moving this same movement. I said, I'm finding ways
to negotiate with this thing that's with me all the time,
and so I'm having a conversation with you, but I'm
also having this this WCO Roman wrestling match with his
(01:23):
monster is my Brain.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Academy Award winning filmmaker Davis Guggenheim, who I also admire
a ton, spent three years making this documentary, capturing Michael's struggles,
but also getting up close and personal with what motivates Michael,
and that is a deep connection to his family, a
gigantic heart, and the knowledge that he is encouraging so
(01:49):
many other people dealing with Parkinson's.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
He's actually the sweetest guy, the most wonderful guy I've
ever worked with.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
On today's episode of Next Question, you'll hear how the
filmmaker and the subject of Still came together to create
an unforgettable portrait of a dear friend and an incredibly
courageous man who has so much to teach us about
what it means to live and appreciate every single day.
(02:20):
I'll yeah, is it okay, okay, good?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
All right.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
First of all, Hi guys, I'm so happy to see
you both. Davis. It's been a long time, Mike, less long,
but always love being with you. I finished watching the
documentary and I have one word for both of you,
which is wow. I loved it. I thought, I mean,
I love Michael, so I was predisposed, but there's so much.
(02:49):
I want to talk to you all about and I
guess the first question is is for Mike, why now?
Why did you want to do this documentary? Now becos?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
He asked me.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I think really I was just hanging out, not doing anything,
and kind of like the air was ripe with the
opportunity united and what the opportunity was to do something
interesting and and Davis called me, and I think I
said some things that he liked, which, as I said,
if we do this, I'm not interested in editing you.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I'm not interested in making a.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Movie about how I got you to make a movie
I want to make Yeah, I want you really just
so you are at it and so it happens. And
as far as why now, the more complicated answer, which
is that I broke my hand.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Can't play histar anymore, my handshakes.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I can't draw anymore. I can't paign anymore. I can't
I can't all this stuff. I can't do that I
ever could, but things I enjoyed and things that gave
me peace, and he gave me a sense of doing
doing something and now and my life has become my clay.
And I was like, throw it back, were going to
make something else of it, and that's what this is.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It really was an opportunity for you to be creative
in another way and to look back on your life.
And Davis, before I talk to you about the really
unique way that you made this film, which is a
visual amalgamation and audio amalgamation of Michael's life, why did
(04:25):
you decide you wanted to do a documentary about Michael J. Fox.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I was on Martha's vineyard during COVID and feeling pretty low,
feeling in a personal rut and a professional rut, and
feeling like I just made the same movie over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And I was.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Looking not just for a movie, but just for some lifeline.
And I started reading his book No Time Like the Future,
and there was wisdom in it for me in an
unexpected place. I didn't think I was going to find
wisdom from a.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Movie, he says dismissively. He's written four books. Did you
read all four of them? Davis? Ultimately, Yeah, the.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Deep dive into all his stuff and it's easy to
sort of say, oh, that's a that's a famous person
just writing something. First of all, he's a great writer.
There's a great storytelling in it, and there's humor and
wisdom in it that I personally needed.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So you decided to tackle this project, and you had
some challenges because there was limited footage of Mike as
a little boy. Although God blessed those class photos. They
killed me. Honestly, they are priceless. I'm so glad you
(05:46):
kept those. So there were some things from Michael's childhood.
But there were also limitations in terms of how you
got the visual vocabulary to tell Michael's story. So put
together the pieces of the puzzle, because I know it
was sort of a conversation between you and your editor
and you were trying to figure out, like, how do
(06:08):
we tell this story?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Right? So with the glue of all this is Michael's
great writing and his voice carries the movie. But then
there's part, like you say, they're parts of his life
that were there weren't cameras, and so my my solution
was re enactments. But Michael Hart, this brilliant editor from
Donegal Ireland, Michael Fox's clapping right now quietly and and
(06:32):
and his solution was to use some of Michael J.
Fox's movies.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It was brilliant.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I'm not period in ways that I would never have.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Imagined, right, So you give me an example when.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I was falling a little Tracy, I was so in
love with the schirl and we were seeing other people
in it. She just only did the show for short
any time, so I thought, he's just gonna go away?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Person, Am I just going to see you anymore?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And and a great moment our car is really a
nice metaphor when when she was leaving the show for
the last time and Mike car was parked next to
her car at parking lot, her rental rabbit in my Ferrari.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That yeah, I mean, doesn't that say it all?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
By the way, Mike, Oh my Ferrari, you get in
my Ferrari to get into a rabbit to talk about
about and I guess she's really worried about me. He's
just girl, I'm only in love with this one and
see her again she thinks I'm gonna die in partying
to her and a you have the job, bab having
(07:37):
lunch and she we got married two years later. So
so it was this amazing moment. We shot the big
scene down in a Grance village walking through the streets
and the characters.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Falling in love from bright lights, big city, big.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
City and I was the person who was living in
that and I felt the.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Same, but on a date in the movie, but they're
also dating and lit by Gordon Willis, the guy who
shot The Godfather. So it's like beautiful, beautiful there in silhouette,
and her first line is I was looking at the
other night. She goes, I guess I'm supposed to be
impressed by your big, fancy job, which is true for
the characters in that movie, but it was also true
(08:19):
in their life. He had just done back to the
future and he's he's she's still not impressed.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
But that's but it's true in so many cases. You've
found a place for art imitating life and it really
works so well. I was curious where this came from
the beginning of the film, Michael wakes up and he
notices his his pinkiest fluttering. I think you showed Michael
in bed, so you you intercut a reenactment. Tell me
(08:49):
about that scene and why you chose to start with that.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Why do we start there? It cuts to Michael present
time in bed as well, right, and this is great line,
which is, uh, he's about what pinky is, and it's
like this, this is a message from the future, right,
which is obviously incredible reference to Back to the Future,
but also gave me this incredible optunity to jump forward
(09:12):
in time to Michael.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Now and double time.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
There really are And obviously the title of the film
is still, but you use that in contrast with Michael,
who was for so long just and still is in
constant motion, right, you know. And you you allude to
that Michael towards the end about sort of always moving,
(09:38):
always moving, And it's amazing how many of those shots
that you all found beautifully illustrated sort of the frenetic
energy of Michael.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, there's a feeling that and this is in your
book because all these go back to Michael's writing. But
for a long time, you're running towards something, which is
what what you said, that would be the destiny, future, future, fame, Hollywood,
you know. And then of course he's running away from
Parkinson's always running, always running, always running.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
The biggest thing was me watching movies. You sucked me in.
I felt I was watching a movie and like, even
though it was about me, I just.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
When you saw all those scenes, did you feel like
you were watching your life flash before your eyes in
a way.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Very much, very much. It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
We all have this fantasy where someone takes your life
and goes, this is it. You look at some total
of what you've done and what you've accomplished, what you
haven't accomplished, who you love, who loves you, and it
was all there. I had this gift, he and me,
this is really amazing, and I guess I am who
I thought I was, which kind of nice.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
When we come back, you'll hear what really happened when
Michael was told off by his now wife Tracy on
the day they met. We're back with Michael J. Fox
(11:09):
and Davis Guggenheim.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Can I ask that question, Katie, because yeah, you make
your film, it's over, and then you have a new question.
And I don't think I ever asked this, but because
now I see Michael as this incredible role model, he's
become the spectacular human. Did you have any intention of
being this person? Now?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
No, I just wanted to drag all the beard and
going to their girlfriends.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
It's always said, you know, in in forty years, you're
going to be this guy who starts a foundation.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
In this That's that's that's weird.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
That's weird.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I'm telling you what you know because you did it.
But but this is moving towards.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Something and moving away from something, moving towards the signing
of his kid is gonna leave Canada?
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Who does that?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Right?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
You don't move from Canada to California at seventeen is preposterous.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I thought one of the great things about the film
was I didn't realize how hard it was when you
first got to La I got you illustrated that really well.
You know when when Michael had to sell his sectional couch,
you know, bit by bit, how you know you were
living on McDonald's and you were eating I think you
said you would get those little jam or jelly packets
(12:24):
and eat those. I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean talk
about like a starving artist. But that was really fun
to watch those family ties moments, and particularly because Gary
David Goldberg did not want him. I remember reading about
this in any way, shape or form. He didn't want you,
Brandon Tartakoff didn't want you. Said you were never going
(12:46):
to be on the front of a lunch box, and
you send him a lunchbox with something like here I
am love Michael or whatever you're crowing. Oh yeah, oh
this is this is to put your crow in. Well,
you were kind of a dick a little bit, you know,
doing family ties. You got, as my mom would say,
a little big for your breeches, and you would admit that.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And that footage.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Very demanded shot and you could even tell that Justin
Bateman was like rolling her eyes, like this guy is
so annoying and obnoxious, right, and yeah, no, I saw
how many shots and I saw it? Yeah, exactly, and
(13:35):
she's rolling her eyes. So you were being kind of
a tool and and got a little full of yourself.
And you talk about a scene you were in with
Tracy Coolin, who is also a friend who I adore,
and she had garlic breath, and you made some joke
about how was that trump scampy, a.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Little scampy for lunch, babe scampy when the documentarian has
to do the one liner, you're in trouble.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
The baby.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Tracy looked you in the eye and said that was
really mean, that was cruel and you were.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
A complete fucking asshole.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, and that really since you were the golden boy.
In fact, you saying the documentary nobody had really ever
talked to me like that.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, got a little chubby got a little chubby in
that moment, little turned on by how cool she was was.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Oh, you got a little chubby. Sorry, I didn't know
what you were talking about. That took me a few minutes. Okay,
well thanks for that. So but I was going to
ask you, is that one of many things that attracted
(14:54):
you to her that she just like was direct and
told you exactly what you needed to hear it that time.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, she's brilliant that way. She just can see things clearly.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
And this is a really difficult time for her right
now with me getting all this attention for this film,
because because she's not me, she's her and like to
this day, I mean that, I love that. It makes
me full of love for her. I just think, yeah, absolutely,
she hadn't have partisans.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I have partisans.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
She has experienced it every day and she has to
and I have to make sure I find the room
for her to be her separate from this. And that
was kind of like what you were saying that the
first thing I was saying, I'm not here to play
your game and I don't have.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
To put up with your being a jerk. I'll just
scrap Davis. I'm just curious as an outsider, as a filmmaker,
someone who has spent time with both of them now
a lot of time, what have you observed about their relationship,
because they are just quite remarkable.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I agree, And one thing they share is devotion to family.
Michael is a complete open book and making this movie,
but both Tracy and Michael were protective of their family.
It's like, not just to keep them off camera, but
just to they have their own lives. I'm not I
don't speak for you, guys, but that's what Tracy and Hey,
(16:23):
this film shouldn't even remotely detract from what they're doing.
What they're doing in their own lives is more important
that devotion to family. I think is is really really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But let's let's talk kids.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Up.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
People said, said ask about Parkinsons.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
They would not they didn't get it, they wouldn't get
the connection, they wouldn't like it was never a big
part of our lives. Are my fame with a big
part of their lives their own lives are really interesting
people for sweet people, the very kind.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
People, very unpretentious and they're not of themselves. They never
right on your celebrity or trac and it's amazing that
all of your kids turned out to be such normal, good, hardworking,
kind people. There's so many great stories and obviously the
foundation of the documentary is Michael talking. And how many
(17:19):
days did you spend doing those interviews?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
I almost didn't do them at all. So my first
idea was no interviews. I wanted just to make a
movie where you get lost in the footage.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
What I pitched to Apple was I wanted to make
a documentary that felt like an eighties movie. And then
I did this commercial. This dpiece showed me the shot
where the camera's right here and Michael and I are
like look at each other, like really really close. Usually,
you know, sometimes you're ten feet away, right, and there's
lots of people and a guy geting a sandwich, and
(17:50):
you know, and this one angle, Michael could look me
in the eye, but it looks like he's looking into
the camera, right. I said, that's I'm going to try that.
And we went to your office on Fifth Avenue and
we did that one interview and it was just electric.
Like you see in the movie. He's just so winning,
(18:12):
he's so charismatic, he's so funny, so.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Intimate and so honest and so so.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Really honest, and I go, wow, this is the core
of the movie. And so that one setup we did
six days over a year.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
So the last thing we shot was that last one
with your last therapy session with Ryan.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
The process of even doing that interview was probably pretty
tiring for Michael.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
A lot happened in that year we're shooting. It was
you call it, we tell your doctor. It was a
festival self abuse.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
I kept breaking him in.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
You broke your hand.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I broke both arms. I broke my shoulder, hit my
shoulder replaced. I brought my face. I broke my elbow
and it was really painful. It was in the hospital.
I'm down for a good time.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't want to be a jerk anybody, but it's constantly, constantly,
I always say, what do you think I'm doing?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
And doing something else, and it's just the fact of
your life.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Everything that I do, Like the movie, everything happens in
the context of Negoshi with this thing.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You know, I want to talk about three moments in
the movie that really affected me. So you were diagnosed
at twenty nine and nineteen ninety one, is that right?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
And then you told the world you had it ninety
eight and you're dealing with so much and then you're
dealing with having to keep this a secret. And I
was curious, looking back on it, now, do you have
any regrets about not telling the world? Was you were
(20:00):
really afraid? And you talk about this in the film
if people would accept you, if they would find you funny,
you know what the reaction would be. But at the
same time, harboring this secret must have been so much
pressure on you as well.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, it was. It was hard.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I'm Tracy was amazing during that time, and she got
me too, like like I had to figure out how
to keep a secret and I quit drinking, So that
was that was interesting. And then and then I was
I was she was dangerous losing my marriage and losing
my family. One of the things really affected me in
a great way and paid off downline was when I
(20:40):
said I had Parkinson's and all this fuss happened on
tabloids and stuff, and I got these chat rooms with.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
The Parkinson's patients who didn't know it was me, and I.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Talked to him and said, what about this Michael fun
And they said, I love that he had Parkinson's. And
when I got over the shock these people celebrating the
fact that I had parties.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
So I got it.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I went, I get it, and then my goal began
to get to the point where eventually got to I
could step into that and saying here's what I can't do,
here's what I can't do, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So that's when you started the fat Foundation. You know,
I did have to laugh when you used that sort
of cloying Barbara Walters interview, May She Rest in Peace?
That was sort of unctuous and inappropriate. What did she say, Davis.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
You're in the fight for your life.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
It's almost the way she said it more than her words, right,
because you were afraid that audiences would treat you differently.
And I love the line when Michael said, oh my god,
what have I done, because he was now being subjected
to that kind of maudlin pitying kind of interaction, and
(22:00):
you were like, holy shit, was it better when I
kept it a secret just for that nanosecond. The other
moment that I was very taken by was when you
were with your physical therapist. You said something along the
lines Michael, of people are looking to me, they're looking
to me fighting this disease, and I can't let them down.
(22:24):
Your physical therapist said, you know, you don't always have
to be Michael J. Fox, And it made me think
what a huge responsibility and how unfair in many ways
that was to you. And I wondered, Gosh, does Mike
ever think I don't want to be the goddamn poster
child for Parkinson's disease. I wondered about that, because you've
(22:46):
got so much you're dealing with already, as you said,
simultaneously navigating what's happening in your brain every moment while
trying to carry on a conversation while trying to walk
down the street in New York City and trying not
to fall. And then I'm like, this guy feels like
he can't let people down.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
It's a schnauz around your pant leg.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But no I think about that is that I'm fool
enough and ready enough to take that and and and
to move forward with it. And if it's a role
for me to play, I'll play because God damn, and
know all that's been said and done, I'm gonna lucky him.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
I'm like, I just keeps from Canada. I have his
beautiful wife, these great kids.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I'm a multimillionaire, I've got I got like this life
I've lived that should yes for me to step up
and do something. And and and so I started a
great privilege, great great opportunity, and and and I just
menasgued to running to great people along the way, and
and just just focus on what we needed to do.
And I guess the answer all your questions is just
(23:49):
not personal. It's not personal circumstance. It's a circus of circumstance.
And I just walk in the line, and I thought,
you know, there's something I can do here. And what
I could do was I could rally people. And I
don't take credit for I've done. I'm glad that I'm
part of a group of people that get this done.
Where I will take credit for, or I'm proud of
(24:11):
at least is there's a woman that's going to the grocery.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Store right now.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Twenty years I wouldn't have done a grocery store, wouldn't
fumble with the change first, wouldn't have risk the guy
in the part of I think she was drunk, but
she got into your car.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
It was a horrible life.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And now, perhaps because of me, to a certain extent
she could say, yeah, person like Michael Fox, But.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I wanted to ask you. I mentioned three parts of
the doc that really affected me, and one is when
you're talking to Michael and one of the interviews over
those six days. During one of those interviews, there's a
point in the film where you guys deal with what
you call shitty stuff, and Davis, you imply that Michael
darts away when you ask him how he feels and
(24:57):
you talk to him about are you in pain?
Speaker 3 (25:01):
So the film was finished. I mean I had a
version of the film that you could show someone and
it worked. It was great. But I remember watching it
with the editor, Michael Hart, and I go, just there's
something missing here because with all of Michael's optimism and
with all his insistence not to be pitied, which is
(25:21):
an important thing for me too, not to do that,
I realized that he didn't actually tell us the full
story of the year he's been through, and that he
wasn't pain. And of course the way you say it's
pretty funny, but it's like it's like it never came up.
I said, talked to you for hours and hours and hours,
(25:42):
you never talked about your pain. The first thing you
say is I'm in a tremendous amount of pain. And
I was actually really shocking when you said it to me,
because I was like, oh, like, you're really good at
hiding it. You really not only do not talk about it,
but you don't exhibit it, you know. And it's it's
a flip side of this optimism, right, And he just goes, well,
(26:03):
I'm not going to lead with it.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Are there moments, Michael when you're not not so brave?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'm brave as brave as I hear we're brave and
courage And I had no choice. I No, I mean like, like, okay,
let's be brave. So I guess the fall back is
I'm brave?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Well, I guess. I mean, do you ever allow yourself
to be furious? You know, to rage?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Wage away?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
I used to rage when I was younger. I like
when Tracey talks about I say, what was it?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Tack?
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Because I can see the pain in her face. I
can I can see how hard that was. AH like rage.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I don't feel rage now. I think the thing that
I feel now that that is not pleasant is I
haven't got a trick for it. There's no easy answer. No,
I can't I can't content.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I can't charm it. I can't I can't bush it
into the cornfield. You know, it's just it's just there.
I think a word.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I'm cops a certain amount of wisdom, hard and wisdom,
and I want to look at something and say, Okay,
I can look at this this way ten times and
never get anywhere and get pissed off and get frustrated,
or I can just go yeah, move on.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
It's more like, uh, acceptance, acceptance.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Acceptance is huge. Acceptance and gratitude. Well, everything I've ever
written is one one that I kind of go, well,
that's good.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
If that's that's my one one one that I write
in my life, I'm happy with that, which is with gratitude,
optimism and sustainable. If I can, I I'm something to
be grateful and every day I can win that day.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
That's great advice for everyone, honestly and so true. Up next,
how Michael's Foundation helped bring a game changing breakthrough in
Parkinson's research. If you want to get smarter every morning
with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on
(28:28):
health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our
daily newsletter Wake Upcall by going to Katiecuric dot com.
We're back with Michael and Davis. Although Parkinson's disease is
the second most common neurodegenerative disorder in the US after Alzheimer's,
(28:52):
the only course of action for patients is to treat
their symptoms, and unfortunately, by the time those symptoms are visible,
the disease is already well underway. That's why a major
goal for researchers has been to diagnose Parkinson's earlier and
develop interventions to slow it down or stop it altogether. Now,
(29:14):
the results of a major news study are in and
with monumental help from the Michael J. Fox Foundation, it
looks like earlier diagnosis may actually become a reality. The breakthrough,
announced this month in the journal Lancet Neurology, involves the
discovery of a biomarker called alpha sinnucleon. I talked with
(29:35):
Michael all about this important step. I wanted to talk
to you about the research for Parkinson's because you know,
as somebody who saw my dad's succumbed to the disease
and my dad died in twenty eleven, you were diagnosed
in nineteen ninety one. So much money, so much research,
(29:55):
so many brilliant scientists. Why has it been so so
hard to come up with better medication to control the
disease or even god willing a cure.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Talk to me about that diagnosis. You move funny and
you can't keep your hands still or whatever. And so
we run through a series of tests and it kind
of a subjective way till you get part with a
lot of times you're right.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
But that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
We've never had a biological way to say, yes, you
have these markers. So because that takes a lot of work,
because you got to take this common cohort of people
that have similar symptoms and problems and eliminate them. And
that's again that takes billions of dollars. Luckily we came
into billions of dollars. Yeah, and we found a way
(30:49):
to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
And this was like over a thousand patients from.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Right. We needed to get spinal taps, we needed to
get spinal fluid, which is hard to extract, it's very painful.
We get to get people who didn't have Parkers to
do small.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Tabs wow, which is like that's hard to do.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Let's take a needle in his fine. So but we
found enough people to do it.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
We found family members that love their family, love their
their and their uncle, their mom and their dad, and
subjected to themselves to this and that was a key thing.
So when I when I go through, when I thank
people for this, it really it takes a metropolis. It
takes a billion people to get this done. It's huge
(31:35):
what's happened because now we can get to the point
where where a four year old gets a swamp and
we found out they're gonna have Parkinsons in twenty years
and then we give them a pill and send them
on their way.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And so this was the Parkinson's Progression Markers initiative. Yeah,
and basically it found.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Out disc everything we could isolate this.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Protein, isolate a protein that is present in Parkinson's patients.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, and we can we can find a way to
isolate it and to see it laid bare and say
that's why.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
You have parking And does that mean you could potentially.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
The gate's opening and drug companies flooding in because they're
gonna make a billion jillion dollars How to stop the progression?
And imagine if you're just going to have a standard task,
because it's as easy as to swab or blood and
they say blood tests, you're about forty years away from it.
But you need to at Parkinson. So let's take this
(32:32):
tablet that the good people that this just came up
with it to the great financial glee, but but but
certainly to also to the benefit of mankind.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
So instead of treating it, it's preventing it. By diagnosing it,
even way way before you become symptomatic, you're preventing it.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Tell me if I have this right. But you know
when Michael seeing is doctor doctor Brestman is amazing doctor
at Mount Sinai incredible that this thing where she's having
him open and close his fingers, this is what someone
told me that that that thing is what doctors.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Have done for years, where you basically do that.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Because they have no other way of really seeing what
the parkins. And finally, this breakthrough is they can say
you have it with a test, and that, like Michael says,
opens up all this doors for more testing, for more tracking,
for more treatment.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yes, is that right?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
It's huge? Yeah, exactly right. It's a huge game changer.
It's massive.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
We have this one benefactor who's give us gigantic, gigantic
sos of money. And he when he first gave us
the money, I had a conversation with him, very differential
and very grateful, but I said, please tell me that
you might give me all this money, you come in
and run your agenda. He had to run our agenda,
(33:54):
he said. He said, no one else is going to
do it but you guys, And he gave us the money.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
He just more I can step back and said, please
do this important work. I mean, science moves so painfully slow.
Because I think about this took over nine years. As
you said, you had to find patients to do spinal
taps who didn't have Parkinson's. You had to I mean, I.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
Think I really intendivize them and get me out of
their office. But we got it done, cure them quickly.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
We got to get.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Going back to Canada.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well it's very exciting, but how far are we, Michael,
now that this breakthrough has happened, is it up to
the drug companies to figure out how to identify this
protein and how to figure out how to what to
do with it? And when you think about the future,
how long will that be you think?
Speaker 4 (34:49):
I think realistically at twenty years. Stick to this point,
I think that five or ten two or its marketable, viable.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And what's so exciting too, is you know, I've done
a lot of work in ALS as well. I had
a friend who died of ALS. I have a friend
who's dealing with ALS right now. And all these neuro
degenerative diseases are connected ALS, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Huntington's, and so
(35:18):
unlocking some of these mysteries will have such a huge
impact on all of these diseases.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
My favorite phrase is a rising tigless about and there
there'll be a lot of boats.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Slowly, which is so exciting.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
They laid it out for me and they said, this
is what we're looking for, and it was so preposterous.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I said, the amount of people you got to have
to do this, It just did, you know, authentically get
people in the world they care about Parkinson's.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
It's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
And I just leaned across the table to remember and
they said, he's not us who And that's really what's
few of us?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Well, thank god you did the simple way of putting
it is. It's a huge break through. Well, I want
to say that Michael J. Fox Foundation, as you found out,
Davis is just incredible and I've been a proud supporter
of it in honor of my dad, but also in
honor of Michael, because he's one of my personal heroes
(36:17):
and the fact that you know, he's very humble and modest.
But people have contributed two billion dollars to Parkinson's research
because of this guy, and because of my dad, and
because of their uncles and brothers and sisters and all
kinds of personal connections as well. But he has become
(36:39):
such a leader in this field.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
It's a zoo ras and out side of my family,
it is a best sator. I say when I'm my
corny things, it's a gift. It's a gift that keeps
on taking.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
But it's a gift. It's a gift that keeps on
taking and a gift that keeps on giving. Right. Yeah, Well,
I'm so happy that you all came in. Thank you Davis.
It's great to see you again. Michael. I mean, I
just want to I want to take you home, But
I don't think Tracy would love like you.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Haven't.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Hey, come on, that's gonna die. That was between us, Bonnie, right,
let to die about anyway? This was great. Is there
anything that you feel like you wanted to talk about that,
I didn't bring up.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
I wanted to thank him.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Go ahead for.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Putting this in my life right now.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
It's a great way to express myself and tell my
story and tell other people's story. And you're freaking gifted.
You just you an eye and a heart and mine
and I am passion and empathy that just is present
only in the best artists, and you're wanted them.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
You're one of the best artists.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
That's fun, great, just a wonderful three years of my life.
Thanks for Katie, This is really fun, of.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Course, thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question
for me, or want to share your thoughts about how
you navigate this crazy world reach out. You can leave
a short message at six h nine five P one
two five five five, or you can send me a
DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you.
(38:23):
Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media.
The executive producers are Meek, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz.
Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers are Adrianna
Fazzio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is Matt Russell,
who also composed our theme music. For more information about
(38:44):
today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake
Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app,
or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also
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Host
Katie Couric
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