Conversations On How Much Marketing Matters Part 2

In part 2 of this conversation, Glasses Malone explore the intersection of marketing and music, offering an honest look at the uphill climb faced by independent artists. They examine how branding, storytelling, and authenticity play a critical role in connecting with audiences—and how the tension between being real and being marketable can weigh heavily on creators. From navigating digital platforms to delivering both entertainment and education, this episode unpacks the complexity of modern artistry and the escapism often demanded by today’s listeners.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Watch up and welcome back to another episode of No
Sealer's Podcast with your host. Now fuck that with your
load glasses Malone.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yeah, King, So tell me and Pete, what was your
last couple of days?

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Like I have to do that when we're having a
cup of coffee and ship, you know, offline.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
So let me tell you about King this last couple
of days because this is called public and this is it's.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Not gonna be public because we're not gonna get into
the death. But the last couple of days I've been
looking for King.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
He just been Pete.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
He trying to break my house of cards.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Definitely not.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
I'm just saying, Pete, I fucked up, Pete. Can I
just say I fucked up? I mismanaged my time in
a bad bind, didn't you know? I missmad my time?
And you know, Pete, I'll tell you the story over
you know, a cigar perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
I'm always I'm always good for that.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
But you know, Pete, it gets you know, I don't
talk to nobody around here, so I like to, you know,
drive and take care of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
We'll just leave it at that. Yeah, Yeah, he didn't
put me in the mind I did, Pete, because I missed,
you know, doing it my way. I miss Friday's show,
but that's not important, so I didn't keep. I didn't keep.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
You know, I'm a bad person with checking in and
shit like that.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Pete, this is the thing, you know, whenever no Schillings
podcast happens, I'm the only person that has to be here.
That's one thing I realized. I am the only person
that has to be here, right. I have to be
here no matter what's going on in my life, no
matter if the show is doing well, bad, good, I

(01:59):
have to be here. So I have trained so nobody
can do me a disservice by not being here with
me right, because don't nobody owe me nothing, period?

Speaker 3 (02:10):
I do.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
I feel that. I disagree with that.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
I disagree with that because if I say I'm gonna
do something and I give my obligation, and that's why
I feel bad because I gave my obligation to support
you and stuff, but I let other things get in
the way or things like that.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yes, that's not even important though, but.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
To me it is kind of important because it takes
away from the obligation that you counted on me to
do something for. So for me, I do feel a
type of way like, damn, you know, that's not manage
my time better.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
That's not being a stand up guy. King, We have
no time and place for that.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Here. I'm gonna try and get me in trouble, Pete.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
Draw out some guys, what higher standards are gonna go
talk like that.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
I'm Russell Wilson. You gotta be fucked up.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
No, So what it is is he didn't say anything.
So one thing is me being here is different. But
he talked in cold, so I thought he got kidnapped.
Mm hmm, that that be the thing.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
And then like the problem with being a real friend.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
And I'll say this because most of the people that
I do business with, I don't do business with a
lot of people. Let's just shrink it down. Most people
I do things with, Pete with friends like h is
my friend. So it's like, damn, Pete, I thought it
was like family. No, no, I'm saying what happened over
two days, Pete, I went from family to friend. No, no, no,

(03:42):
there's family that's not my friend. You know, I mean
there's family. I'm talking about the relationship. There's family that's
not my friend. Facts, right, But it's like this is
somebody that I kind of you know, like no different
with you, Like I'm gonna worry about your well being.
So I'm thinking this motherfucking got kidnapped and somebody working

(04:03):
his phone.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Pete, I'm the stand up guy. Hold on, Pete, Pete, Pete,
I'm the stand up guy here.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Mother.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
You know, I think he's the rest of the room,
but you're a stand up guy here the glasses is
the stand up guy, Pete.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Well, hey, look I apparently didn't give a fuck about friendship,
but he's the stand up guy.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
That does mean I'm the stand up guy exactly.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
So that's what I was saying. So it's like, fuck,
I'm like, what the fuck, I'm begging something. This my
fucking something happened, Like I.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
Forget where I am, Pete, I forget that kidnapped motherfuckers
down here and shooting him for no reason. And ship
like that Mexic kids and white people and ship where
I'm from. You know, we're all happy rainbow family.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, that kill people next to the lake. Though sometimes
like on the weekends, like this weirdo serial killer.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
People kill themselves.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
But I made it through that adventure, Pete, and rejuvenated
and let's go and what's the subject today.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Besides uh this what? This is not the subject?

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Thank God? Telling Pete about my last couple of days.
Oh yeah, let's hear that.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Let's hear your last couple of days, my last kicking.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
It was like a burden was relieved. Thank you God.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Hey Pete, you know the funniest ship Pete. I have
to be really honest, so I know the nigga was
bad at me. So when I came back yesterday, I
came in here. You know, I got like a bucket
of clothes that I keep by the front door. Nigga,
I walked in, the bucket was gone, and Ship, I said,
God damn that nigga kicked me out.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
Later, this wasn't last week, Glasses in trouble for not
showing up with a bucket of shrimp or something like that.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
Don't do that, Pete. Stop Pete. The show will go
through fast and get them started.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
W That's what the homie was just telling me.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Now what Punk was just saying, Man, he was with somebody,
somebody booked his studio, and he was like, I think
I'm telling you people think I like the debate. I
don't know why that is, I don't like the debate.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
How ended up debating about the studio being booked.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well, a good buddy of mine's from Hawaii, his name
is Lux was working at the studio at Punt Studio.
They rented it because of the BT weekend. Okay, working
with a really another great brother brother named Earl. Earl
is a great brother in the business.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Earl. Think it was Earl Washington.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
But uh he was telling me, like, man, me and
Glasses was debating a minute ago.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
I'm like, no, we wasn't. No, he wasn't. He was
debating about debating. Just hear it's going, Pete. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
And it's funny because people just troll like that with
it and I'll be like, like, I can't have my opinion,
Like I'll say something to somebody, but I'm not.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
I don't quite get what. Huh. Yeah, I'm definitely interested.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Deciphered that for me, Pete.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
What? Yeah, you decipher what he just said for me, Pete,
because it's like, I do not like debating.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
Glasses does not perceive disagreements as debating. He perceives them
as him correcting.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Ooh, good one, can we can we steal that?

Speaker 3 (07:57):
And every now and then when somebody said something, you
push that to say that again. Yeah, so when everybody
think he's debating and stuff, we'll just push that the
correct them.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
This is crazy rarely debate. No, I'm just talking about it,
not just Pete. I'm talking about even like on the
you know, weekly shows. You know, I think people get
off by just challenging.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah, knows what I'm saying, Like on that show, on
the hour show, we could push that saying Pete just
saying when it gets to that point, people think you
just debate for no reason.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Like on Twitter, people say some shit, you're not I
don't think looking for a prolonged interaction with the individual.
It just seems like we're just gonna do a touch
and go correction and move on.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah. What's funny is I rarely do that. But that
statement is.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Let's not go into rarely do that. That's a relative term,
and my minuscule Twitter timeline would push back on that slightly.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Prime example today or yesterday, I saw what's the comedian
Erry Spears shout out Tory Spears. He was saying how
Q wasn't a lyricist, how much he didn't like him,
And today was a good day.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
It's not a good song. Damn, what kind of day
was he having. They just say things like that to
get the conversation going. But that's my point. I just
didn't say anything like.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Did you ask him those specific questions like do you
like a good day?

Speaker 2 (09:29):
No, this was something that came on my timeline or
he wanted to comment up by it in person to you.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
No, No, I'm saying I let stuff go by all
the time. Oh okay, people say some crazy shit and
I'd be like, yeah, whatever. My problem is when somebody's
speaking to me. So if somebody's tweeting or exing to me,
then I'll respond like if they'll ask me my opinion,
I'll just respond, oh this is what I think. Then

(09:57):
I'll find myself with a fucking argument. Like somebody says
something to d C. It was a It was a
guy on X and he was saying to d o C, Well,
ice Cube didn't really need the group because of the
money was wrong.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
He left it. He left the group because of uh.
He he had a chance to go solo in Brian
Turner and he's talking to DC, who is a member
of n w A and Rock. So I see that
and I'll tweet.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
I tweeted, like, imagine a world where a fan is
telling DC about n w A. The last thing I
know is people talking shit to me, trying to debate me.
And I'm like, bro, it's why is that a debatable point?
It's d o C of n w A, and it's
a fan telling d O C about n w A.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
It's pretty much just come right out at that point
and say, I think you're lying or you're delusional and
incapable of person reality accurately. And I'm correcting you that
that's kind of the only thing you're staying to DC
as a fan at that point. It's not I have
better sources. It's you're a liar or you don't know

(11:18):
the sky when you see it.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Either way, imagine me. That's to me somebody that would
like to debate your siblings. Yeah, glasses house, my brother King.
I'm looking at these lists right, here's a here's another
great thing, right back into Brandy. I'm looking at these

(11:43):
Los Angeles lists, right, and I guess they reference in
the county okay, right, which is odd because some of
these people aren't even from the county in Los Angeles.
But let's let's keep it going just for the sake
of which it's kind of disrespectful to call everybody an
LA rapper.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
What kind of list? Is we talking about? Different lists
that were made, So I want's the top fifty?

Speaker 4 (12:01):
Yeah, la rapperver, I'm like fifty exactly what you get
below thirty five? You're just naming people out of a
phone book.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
But to reference everybody as LA rappers, Okay, it's kind
of like raggedy We don't soniw we talked, but let's
say I entertained the County of Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Okay, right, I said, you know what I get it.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
It's a lot of people with limited information trying to
assess what's going on. So I said, maybe I need
to make the official LA mount rushmore with the full explanation,
need a platform to partner with. Started thinking because I
wanted to write it. I didn't want to make like
catching content. I wanted to write it like I wanted to,

(12:47):
you know, work on writing. And people just start giving
me their list of their lists.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
Fast question. Fuck you expect them to do?

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Expect them to do anything good? Point glasses. Either do
it or not to do it.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
People go on Twitter to spout off their stupid ass thoughts.
There's very few read only Twitter pep. I'm like the
only read only guy. I think in like three months,
I've read five hundred articles and made six posts. There's
not a lot of me out there, and if there are,
you wouldn't know they were out there.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
So did you make your list?

Speaker 3 (13:35):
No?

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Like I have it in my mind, but I'm not
sure if I'm going to have to just make consistent
content the regular modern day content where it's a video content.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Really you can't do both.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, but it would have been better the old school web.
But whatever, I don't think that's important. That just goes
into how my brand is market People just think they
should challenge whatever my thought is, even though it's not
my personal opinion. Like the dude who I said the
shit to about DC was like, that's that's your problem.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
You think you know everything. I didn't even say what
I knew.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
I expressed it cuz you feel me Like, how do
you argue with DC about Nwa?

Speaker 2 (14:23):
And it turned into glass You think you know everything?

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Cuz how nigga you are arguing with d OC about Nwa?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Who the fuck thinks they know everything?

Speaker 3 (14:37):
You know?

Speaker 2 (14:37):
One thing.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
I know.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
I would not argue with Doc about NWA.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, I mean what you're saying is facts and true,
and it's fuggy because it is like those.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
People are trolling. They're not trolling what they're doing. They
be dead fucking serious. I don't think they'd be that serious.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
That can't be that situation right there, There is no
can't be trolling. I mean what you said is facts.
There is no wiggle room, there is no I mean
there is no there's no getting around what you just said.
So for me, that's trolling because there is no back
door to which you said. There is no exceptions, like

(15:21):
you said, how can a fan tell DLC anything about NWA.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
There's a video I saw come out and I was
gonna watch it this morning and I didn't, and I
really screwed up and I let the show down by
not watching it. That's on Jordan Peterson interview. Yeah, I
sold you guys short, you fake kidnap, You faked your
on kidnapping. And I fail to watch this research video.

(15:47):
So Jordan Peterson is interviewing some guy. I think it's
another psychologist of some sort. I'd seen his face before.
I forgot what his thing is, but he was talking
about the other guy, the guest. How The most interesting
phenomenon he's been able to observe is when people believe
in something their utter reluctance to change their view of

(16:09):
it in spite of being presented with overwhelming evidence to
the contrary, and that psychological phenomenon that's so common in
the human experience. And this is like an example of that.
I saw on Behind the Music ten years ago that
some guy that works for VH one said that ice
Cube left for money or whatever the hell. Oh yeah,

(16:30):
I was sitting next to him at the table when
he left and told me why that's not right? No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
It's just I just find it weird that you would
argue with such an authority force as a member of
NWA about why his friend left the group. That's what
I versus you or who are a complete stranger and
you're getting YouTube information. Now, Look, I'm not here to
slander YouTube. YouTube is one of the most helpful tools
ever been. I love YouTube.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
That's the stand up guy.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
No, because I get a lot of information from YouTube,
But I don't think it makes me like I was
looking at these fifty incorrect incorrect opinions about geography.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Oh okay, oh you see those two?

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah right, and I watch them all right, but I
wouldn't argue with somebody who's a professional in geography about it.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I like.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Every day like my brand is a crypt, Like I'm
a crypt that is part of my brand. And not
only am my crypt, I'm also somewhat articulate as a crypt.
Not only am I somewhat articulate as a crypt, I'm
sober as a crypt. Not only am I sober as
a crypt, I'm well researched. So like, I keep researching,

(17:48):
Yet I don't walk around trying to tell other cryps
about cripping until they start asking me questions about crypping.
So that's what throws me off. I don't know what
is it about my marketing a brand and that makes
people feel like, like I heard somebody say that on Clubhouse?

Speaker 2 (18:04):
What is that y'all?

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Just y'all don't even challenge glasses challenge me, I'm not
look at this ain't a fight.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
We're not here. That mean by challenge you like just
to argue. Don't everybody do that already all the time?
So what you mean by challenging?

Speaker 1 (18:20):
He felt like I was like, you know, today's Tuesday,
Like y'all just let's say anything, you know, just like,
well today is too.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
I don't know if.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
That's or do they think certain people of higher stature
don't argue with you.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Most people that like are legends or predecessors, they don't
really argue with me what they're trying to refer to.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
No, he was asking people who aren't as well researched
why they are not challenging you.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
They always argue with you, act like you're a stepping
stone or something. The way they try to argue with you.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Continuation of life, the the the inverse of the principle
of the more you know, the more you know, you
don't know. That's what they know. The more they think they.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Know, that's what's wrong with me. I suffer from that.
The more I know, I really like, oh I don't
know shit. Today I realized andre Hirel started that death Jam.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah you didn't know that? No? Really? Yes? But did
he know that ship? And he wasn't that death jam? Didn't?
Did he go over there? No?

Speaker 3 (19:32):
He did.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Andre Herrel started that death jam, And from what I
understand right is he took heavy D to death Jam
and they didn't see it. So he started his own
label to help heavy D which is Uptown Records.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
That's when Puff started.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Okay Goff as an intern at death Jam.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
No, he was an intern in Uptown.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
But I spend too much what's time getting knowledge to
be worrying about arguing a point. Usually I'm coming backwards
to argue a point or to to have to defend
the position, and I'm coming back on my learning chart
or learning curve, and I'm usually coming back, you know,

(20:21):
twelve months ago or twelve years ago.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Sometimes, let me ask you a question, what is the
purpose of learning?

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Just to pass information? In my mind, to pass information,
I think, I think, I I think I've heard that
scientifically said that's the goal of healthy sale is to
pass information. That that fear.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
And the sad thing is we have to step backwards
with our language so we can try to pass the information.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Step back with our language.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, you know, you said, when you're talking to some
people feel like you're going backwards. And sometimes we have
to go backwards in our language just to get the
information across for them to even try to understand.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
I don't know if.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
People ask questions to understand, though, I don't think everybody
is genuinely asking to learn.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah, but we know as a learning person, every moment
is a chance to learn.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
I don't know if everybody understands that, but that's a
learning person. Say that a game peek, but that's a
learning person that other people aren't in that group.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
If the horse drinks, he drinks. If not, you don't.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
A lot of people, I think, like to also ask questions,
particularly in social media environment. It's it's like a haven
for like people trying to rectify personal insecurities in some
way or shape or form. And I hate playing that
stupid insecurity card, but you can see when people ask questions,

(22:00):
they're just trying to poke holes in somebody having a
theory or a thesis or whatever, and they just are like, oh, well,
you're not gonna know it all here, let me prove this,
let me poke this soft spot in that principle that
you're talking about right here. They don't want to know,
they don't want to learn, they don't have any information themselves.

(22:20):
They're just sitting there just trying to look at in
some limited confine of what you're trying to talk about
or discuss. And then yeah, try to reduce its value.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Something else I learned today, right, and it goes into
the same conversation about marketing is entertainment, but entertaining is
all about hold the attention and to keeping a certain place.
I had to really remember that, like that was so important.
It was almost freeing, Like I've been bounded because I

(22:55):
understood early on, right that my task was to make money.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
By being a rapper making rap, so okay.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Then I started to learn about records, hip hop and marketing,
and then I was like, damn, Now I really felt
bounded by culture. But this last week understanding that culture
is the craft. You know, hip hop is the culture,
that's you know, that's the craft. Hip Hop is the craft.
Entertainment is the business. And it seems funny because I've

(23:24):
been in an entertainment business now professionally almost twenty years.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
But I just realized that I was in an entertainment business.
What made you do that? In the last week?

Speaker 1 (23:33):
What was the So we did a podcast about marketing
and I was talking to someone I think a publicist, No,
I was talking to someone else, and it hit me
that we're in the entertainment business. Because I couldn't figure
out why certain people like certain things.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
I was like, why would y'all like that? Like that
ain't to you, it's not entertain but to somebody else. No, no, no,
you mean no.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
I didn't think it was necessarily highly rated in the
craft example, like they wasn't dope, okay, like craft wise,
like the craft of hip hop. If it was craft
in a rhyme or dancing to the music or graffiti,
it is like somebody's writing cursive.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
On the wall, Like that wasn't dope to you.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
It wasn't dope based off knowledge of craft, okay, you
know what I mean? Not not like do I like it?
But and they go to that point because it's entertaining.
And so now like I always thought, like it's certain
rappers who I noticed that, you know, I'm like, uh,

(24:47):
I'm not necessarily I don't think they're highly rated in
the craft or well schooled in the craft, but they're
entertaining as fuck.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Sure, I think a half of guys like that.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
So you use street urban culture to entertain. Sure, you
use street urban culture to entertain. That's the business.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Bring yeah, that is the business, wan, And I didn't
know that oddly, And it's free because I think you
spend so much time initially, the more you learn about marketing,
you spend so much time trying to just get greater

(25:33):
at the craft at displaying street urban culture. So whether
you rapping, making rap songs, whatever it is, if you dance,
and you get greater at the craft, but then to
figure out how to entertain.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
With that craft is different.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
And that the craft, huh, And that is the craft.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
That's the business. It's not the craft, that's the business.
Because some people could be hella nice at the craft,
but the craft may not be entertaining.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
Then are the hella nice at the craft?

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yes, like Pat Poos is nice at the craft, because
the craft of being a rapper, he's hella nice at it.
He can m see his ass off.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
But is it entertaining is a different challenge, Like you
could take somebody like we was talking about the Hommi Perico,
and Perico, while he's getting better and better at the craft,
he's still not quite you know, of the upper echeline
level of craftsmanship when.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
It comes to it.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
But that motherfucker is entertaining the way he sounds, you know,
the music he picks. He picks a really great instrumental,
the way he throws his voice, like Parico's voice is
a little deeper. But when he gets on the song,
he is like pitched up a little bit like and
he is entertaining the curl.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
He's entertaining.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
So to the marketing point, it's freeing because sometimes we
would look at certain things like gimmicks like this is
a great example, like Gang figured out he was an
entertainer before all of us.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
Well, I think there's different dimensions to the craft. Rapping
is spoken. You write it, but it's spoken, it's not authored.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
You know what I mean. You don't have to write
it though, yeah, you necess don't have to write it.
You don't.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
But it's like a huge component to that is how
you deliver. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
No, no, that that's the no, that's the whole thing, right, Yeah.
The craft, like like I tell people all the time,
the writing. Like somebody like Snoop Dogg is probably the
greatest hip hop artist, possibly the greatest rapper every right,
just when you think of great impact, you know everything,
greats just all like he's a cultural phenom, he's not.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
He's probably not a top five writer.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
There are who they got some incredible writers that have
came through hip hop. I mean writing to ship they
were write. Nas is a fantastic writer. Kendrick Lamar is
a fantastic writer. Tupacs, your core is probably the when
you look up what lyrics mean, like, uh, the expression

(28:41):
of emotion through words?

Speaker 2 (28:43):
You know what I mean? Tupac by far as the greatest
lyricist in history of hip hop.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Now, I would have never thought that because of what
you think of lyrics based off your perception versus when
you look up the definition of the word. When you
look up the definition of the word lyrics, and then
somebody who's a it's a professional at lyrics, nobody comes
close to Tupac. It made me reevaluate when I looked
up lyrics and the origin of that word lyrics and lyricism.

(29:10):
It made me re evaluate my whole lists on what
I thought lyrics were. But I never spoke that list
with confidence in the first place. I could tell you
what I like. But when I look up the definition,
Tupac is number one by far lyrics lyricism, Like he's
the greatest lyricist ever. You wouldn't think that because you
start thinking of grammatical tricks. You know, entendres like English

(29:33):
teachers and that's not necessarily what lyrics have to be. Again,
that goes into writing versus the poet.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Who's you know, doing the things with you know, with
words that that drive emotion. But you think finding out
the entertaining personal free you up. Yeah, it changed everything
on how you market and everything else. When you come

(30:03):
from the street, you're bounded by street rules.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Okay, there's certain things that I've let go of right
as I market myself in the music business. One is
in the streets you need your pride and ego all
the time. Like everything is your pridate ego. It's how
you earn. Your reputation, is how you achieve everything.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
That's your street credit, your credit score, my street my
street credit score.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Is probably in the highest seven hundreds, you know. I
mean it's fantastic. But in the music business, your ego
and your pride are your greatest enemies.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Okay, right, because you're.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Gonna have to deal with people who are probably going
to not treat you the way you want to be treated. Okay,
you have to earn everything with them people.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
But you already knew this the outside of No, because
you didn't go to certain things and do certain things
like you can go to Diddy's party because weird shit.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I did go to Dibbe's party. I don't know, but
you left.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
That was something you kept doing because I didn't know
there was a reason to stay.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Like last is the business back here, I might have stayed.
I don't want to see what's.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
Doing if you have to use the restroom, the women
are back there.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
You never told me, Okay, if you said there was
a reason, like, I didn't know, Like I didn't know
there was somewhere.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
I didn't get anybody for the coolest party.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah you get that, or or you know, honestly with
I wush itn't I don't think again, I don't party that.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, you don't fit that.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Okay, I don't do drugs. Let's just enter that door.
I don't really drink or do drugs. So people party,
you know, cocaine is a big party in the entertainment business. Drinking,
you don't do that. You may not be that fun
to party with some people. So I got it. I
didn't even take it personal. So I didn't know that
there was somewhere else to be.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
So it's not like that.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah, So with this thought though, you know of freeing
yourself and entertaining and entertainment part of it.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Does that mean you.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Start trying to be more accessible to the public to
entertain them? Are just them to be entertained just by
your presence being somewhere?

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Well, so I think that's the conflict, right. The conflict
is you don't have to be accessible.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Right, that's a simple way that people. You know, you're
going out to be a court gester, you show up
somewhere and make I was.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Thinking like the BT experience, like is that entertaining if
you show up there?

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Is that entertaining for them?

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Or is that you know, like, w people be entertained
by you just showing up at something like that?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
No, not just you showing up.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Now, if you went with one hundred niggas all wearing
in lowriders, wearing Dickies, Chucks bandanas, and then y'all walk
down the red car, but and the niggas you start see,
that's entertaining, Okay.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
I was thinking about it, like.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
How much the business has stripped down things that are
entertaining to make it more.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Glorious? Cheap, oh cheap, not even better cheap?

Speaker 4 (33:15):
Right?

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Remember, because a music artist would have a band, Yes,
like if some what's funny is if somebody stood on
that corner, Like let's say somebody standing on two different corners,
the corner opposite of each other, Jason, and there's one
guy with a drum set that could play, and there's
one guy that's singing on the other corner right across

(33:36):
the street that could sing with a mic. Both guys
would have hundreds of people around them.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
You know what I'm saying, Pete.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Like, if it's a drummer with a drum set and
he got an amp and you could hear it, and
that nigga could play, people are going to stop around
him and watch him play.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Hundreds of people every day.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Fact, Just like if it was a singer that could sing,
he had a mic and he was singing at a work.
So the hour of the entertainment business through music has
always been you would go see an entertaining show, right,
you would go see is usually a guy that can
play a bass he could play. It's a guy that
could play a rhythm guitar, he could play. A guy

(34:16):
that can play a drum he could play. Maybe a
guy that's playing a piano he could play. And then
there's a singer, right, And then that's entertaining. That's five
different points of entertainment you're staring at.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Lord knows.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
If they start to dress, let's say like kiss right
the rock band where they just look hella, that's entertaining.
Then you get pyrotechnics. All of these things cause you
to stay. The origin of the word entertain here it is.
It is the origin of the word entertained to maintain

(34:52):
or to keep someone in a certain frame of mind.
So if you yeah, so, it's like so again, it's
like that's why you so to peach point right, you
have to market the entertainment. We was talking about different

(35:13):
guys coming up in LA. A lot of people look
just like krib mac. Shout out to krib mac c mac.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
What all, Matt?

Speaker 1 (35:24):
They're taking his same path right with how he decided
to And I realized, I was like, oh, these people
are entertaining.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Now what you think of how they're entertaining is your
personal cross to bear. But they're entertaining.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
The people that are there to watch are there to
be entertaining. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Like I was listening to this guy as a guy
named King Peel.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
He's out of Pomona, Pou guy, and he was they
did an animated story where he was talking about getting
head from women with no tea and how it happened
to him when he was younger, and then as he
got older, he started to look for women with no
tea and he was calling the head from somebody with
no tea gummy or gummy.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, that's funny, right, And it's like it's entertaining. Now
where is he at in his craft is a different conversation.
But again, in a time where content and entertainment is
all accessible and it's so much to choose from, you
may not be looking.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
For as much craft.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Back in the day, you needed craft to get people
to put you out in front of the public.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
So would that be a good example of your one
partner that.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Used to be a rapper than he be like a
comedian and stuff you guys be doing skits with Is
that something like that good example?

Speaker 4 (36:49):
I mean, here's a few, like think about.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Talking about glasses, say that when my time. You know
what I'm talking about. No, say it again. He used
to be a rapper. He did the skits with you,
the restaurants and stuff, the Mexican concrete.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, is that kind of like a good example where
his craft are rapping, but then he became an entertainer.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Well, Concrete always was funny, so he's developing his craft
at being funny.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Oh so he really wasn't a rapper. He was a rapper,
but than a rapper.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
I don't even know if he was better versus something worked.
You know, what's important is the medium delivering the entertainment. Okay,
So he came at a time in music where there
was no way for people to see like when we
all came into business, you had to go to people
and people had to connect it to theirself. A lot

(37:43):
of magic had to happen. With Instagram, he was able
to kind of use the space.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
It worked out for him in real time.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
I don't know if he was necessarily a better, you know,
a worse rapper than he is funny as entertained skip maker. Right,
it's different, you know what I mean? I don't know
because he wasn't a bad rapper.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
He could rap because I just watched his growth just expand,
like damn.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
I'm watching rap. But I think as he found something
in the medium.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
All of these listen, there's a lot of people trying
to find themselves and what's going to make them relevant
in the world, okay, right, And all of these different
mediums exist to showcase yourself. Okay, Like it's a kid
kim I League, he's starting to pop on the wrap. Like,
looking at him, he's a craftsman, he's a he's dope.

(38:35):
His craft is dope. But looking at him the way
he dresses is entertaining. But again back to the marketing
and branding point, it's freeing when you understand.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
What the job is. This is your business. Your business
is to entertain. Fact, you may be.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Into the craft or the culture of hip hop for them,
you know, for the most part as far as street
urban art, you know as a street urban artist, right,
but your business is to make that entertaining.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
So you go take you know, like you say, your
arts and make it into a business.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
To be successful, you've better make it entertainment.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Like like me and Pere saying, you have to be
able to maintain someone focused, like you have to be
able to keep them in that certain frame of mind.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
Think of the following. What would keep the sneak sound
like if he didn't rap.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Like that, I remember the same shit, I remember he
didn't rap like that?

Speaker 4 (39:44):
Or if E forty didn't sound like an urban version
of Goofy from Disney cartoons on a microphone sure, or
if plies didn't come out into music videos dressed as
a horse jockey or wearing a magenta sombrero.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
It's an important part.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
Those are all very entertaining.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Additives, and that's why they didn't need much to be entertaining.
We was talking about it. With Kendrick's voices, it's entertaining.
So why a lot of artists are emulating it. That's
naturally how he's an entertaining person. Like Kendrick could tell
a story and be three people in the story.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah, with three different voices.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Not as a referen I'm talking about just talking to you,
but with like three different voices of the person.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, So that's him naturally. So while people just emulating
him thinking he's just changing voices, he's giving you perspective
in style.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
That's why he's entertaining to listen to. So a lot
of people who get offended they think he's just changing
his voices. I'm like, no, he's keeping you entertained with
this sonic.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Offering this recording.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Versus like me where my style is pretty monotone straight through,
and I depend on what or whatever I'm doing to
keep you entertained.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
He offers it, and.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
These vocal changes that bring a new element to Hey,
a new dynamic in its own.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yeah, because it changed up to be too with us
like that right in the middle of So, I see
what you said.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Okay, but entertainment is really important to remember that.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Yeah, that's good. And you have to understand like you
were talking about, like your medium. You have to understand
your medium, like I learned that ten years ago. As
social media short clip skits become like an audience accelerator
for comedians, That's not something that I do well. I

(41:44):
can go right, you know, stand up lengthy. You know
we're doing ten minutes fifteen. I can do that, But
sixty seconds of goofballery on Instagram is not what I'm
going to do well.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
So and again it's all how you want.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
He's right because there's a lot of people that make
great skits on Instagram, but their stand up is not.
They're not vested in that craft. Sure, like he's gonna
translate what's that?

Speaker 4 (42:13):
What's that? Lady? The comedian who Walliam says't do a
special what's your favorite whatever joke?

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Oh oh the lady that was in a girls trip, Yeah,
Tiffany had this.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
Yeah, what's your favorite Tiffany had his joke? You don't
have one because she's never done a special.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
She's that's who she did. But she just was after that,
like but but her gift. But I'm saying, even then,
a great shout out to tiff She dope too. She
hasn't found it because she has success. And this is
something else I realize about hip hop two and being
in the business and why this is about to be
successful right now, permanent and it never changed. But I

(42:59):
think the confu usion on hip hop people think the
emphasis is rapping versus culture.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Like comedy. I think people think it's jokes. It's not.
It's being funny.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
You don't sell raps in hip hop. You sell culture.
You sell street urban culture artistically expressed through words. If
you're a rapper, right, that's what you do, and you
can do you can use more than words to tell
that story when somebody sees you, like Peterson the medium,
when somebody sees you, you could use more than words
to tell that story.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
So if I'm like rapping, let's say I'm a crypt.
We should do this.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
I'm a crypt and I have a bunch of seas,
and I rap a song with seas, and I change
all the bees to seeds, and then I'm just rapping
in my regular outfit. I'd be fine. It'll do well.
People hear it like that's dope. If I wore a
bunch of stuff that was all blue, it would do better.

(43:57):
If I did it with a bunch of blue on
and it was a bunch of dudes behind me wearing blue,
it would do incredible because then it starts to keep
your attention at different entry points, not just what you hear,
but what you see.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
In facts.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
You might even watch it again to see what you
didn't see the last time in the back.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Exactly so Tiffany had. It's just somebody who's found something
in acting.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Okay, I see what you're saying, and her commitment at
the time.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
A comics job is to be funny.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
The word has kind of got relegated to just stand up,
but it's comedians are about being funny, okay. The issue
is when they confuse theyselves and think it like like
same thing and anything else, like you think it cross
over all mediums like just because you and hip hop
and you dope and rabbit don't mean you could dance.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Don't mean you could dju.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
You just feel like they do because they kind of
the same, but they're not nothing the same. That's the
peace point. Pete is a stand up comic in a
traditional sense, but then it's a bunch of new guys
on Instagram that are skit comics and haha, Dave is
a great skik comic. But I saw a stand up
I was like, eh, But also he's not vested in

(45:17):
that graft.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
Yeah, and in the end verse. And I mean the
movie is a cult classic or whatever the hell, but
I mean, for being honest, Dave Chappelle's stand up is
a lot funnier than that movie he did about weed,
like than he was in the movie.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
It was funny, I would say that, but not to
a lot of people. People think Dave is funny in movies.
I think Dave is fucking crazy at shit in movies.
But people love that have bake shit.

Speaker 4 (45:41):
Yeah, because there it is. And that goes to my
next point. People think he is like we're kind of saying,
like last time I was thinking about it when we
got off the show last week. The high point of
the Bell curve, you know, the fifty percentile, the one
hundred iq most consumer, like I said, they want to
be entertained, they want superficial, simple whatever. A lot of

(46:07):
the time, at any given moment, the best song out
is not the deepest, the guy selling the most tickets
to his comedy show. It's not the best writer. You
it's Kevin Hart. He sell He sells out because he's
a goofball. He's easy to digest, he's you know, he's
French fries and ketchup, French fries and ketchup.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
He's entertaining.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
He's entertaining. Yeah, and he's entertaining. And it's like intravenous.
People don't want to have to chew, swallow. Just give
it to me right in the vein right there.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
That's why hamburgers sell more to.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Steaks, not just that it's been made hamburgers, because Hamburger's
was it. It took as long as cook a hamburg
It takes as long as cook the hamburger as it
take the cooking steak. Honestly, when you really think about it,
it's not it's not too far different. You know what
I'm saying, but everything around the hamburger has changed. So

(47:08):
the business around the real hamburgers changed. Like back in
the day, like saying the forties and the thirties, if
you would have made a hamburger in a state, they
take the same amount of time. But as the business
of the hamburger changed, the economy, you know, the whole
infrastructure changed. Now you have like hamburgers that can be

(47:29):
cooked in seconds, in minutes, you know what I mean.
You have packaging that can you could grab it and
get it from the place. And like people forget the
brilliance of McDonald's, it's not the burger was so great.
It was a decent burger, good burger, but how fast
you got.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
It, it was convenient.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
All that shit is thrown away maybe before that shit
then you have to bring a plate to.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Your entertainment door. Is that entertaining as fast you get it?

Speaker 4 (47:56):
And it's efficiency efficiency of delivery, which I think it's
true across both, and.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
I think it's overrated too. I'm with Pete. We we both.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
I think I got Pete to finally greed efficiency or
convenience and not even efficiency, convenience is the killer of quality.
So it's convenient, Like getting a burger is convenient to
that getting a steak. There's no way to get a
steak convenient right now.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
It might take you four hours of work to get
the money for a steak and forty minutes of work
to get the money for the hamburger. So even prior
to going out to eat, it's much more efficient and
convenient to get the hamburger. Didn't take half your day's work.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
So it's like, but it's all attached to the emotion,
and you have to find the emotion like that, Like
we talked about this, there's five, there's five, Hey Jesus
Bill has Parkinson.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
Look look at how how emotional Drake's fans are. Drake's
fans are emotional because a lot of them are women,
and he tells them how special they are, and they
become emotionally attached to feeling special. So if you kill
the messenger, you kill the message.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
They spas out good question for glasses.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
So are you gonna look at yourself now and present
yourself as a rapper or an entertainer?

Speaker 1 (49:22):
And that's where it kind of gets crazy, right, It's
like a magician. A magician is a magician to the fans.
But what is a magician in real life? What we
even call that? If you know magic's not real, what
would you call it entertainment?

Speaker 4 (49:38):
You don't go to a magic seminar, you go to
a magic show.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
So I'm always gonna be this MC or this hip
hop artist to the public. But this is We're in
the business of entertaining, and if our goal is to
keep people focused, you feel me, then now we know
what to do.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
So you refer to yourself sometimes as an entertainer.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
No, I would never A magician would never refer to
themselves as an entertainer. Probably, I mean it's not impossible.
It just would be bad for business. You have to
refer to yourself like I'm an entertainer when you no,
he's a champion, I'm a wrestler.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
But we all know that's entertainment. No, we all don't know.
We know that. Everybody don't know that. No. I was
listening grown Men trap ADHD clubhouse room, and people really
was arguing with wrestling real real, get the fuck out
of here.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
But even when we say it's real, basketball is the
business of entertainment. So rest is sure, if you want
a more entertaining product you're going to give, You're gonna
have to make some consolations, man, and you're.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Ready to do that. I'm not. That's the dilemma.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
No, the dilemma was I wouldn't before because I looked
at myself as just this true culturist this whole time,
even before I understood what hip hop was.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
I knew that what I represented. But now that I
understand my business of entertainment, Oh, it's on. Now the
gloves are off.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
So that's what I'm saying. So you go unilize this
new thought like free yourself.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
I mean, it's free, it's free, you know what I mean.
Now the same boundaries and restrictions. You know, the ceiling
is higher of things that I could do. So you
see yourself actually doing things differently, differently.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yet different because I haven't done them.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
But now, so to drive a point home, instead of
three things I would do, there might be thirty things
I could versus before it was only three things that
I could do because I didn't want to look you
know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
You say, yeah, but you can't look that way because
you're an entertainer. In the end, that's the business. Yeah,
so I see what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Like basketball could never come off and tell us what
they do to make it entertainment. It might fuck up
the fact that we think we're watching a basketball game octually, entertaining, entertaining,
two or three hour special of entertainment.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Everybody, I think it's fixed. Oh, everybody don't think that.

Speaker 4 (52:36):
The NFL has been pretty forthright with a lot of that.
Our quarterbacks are the most valuable commodity from an entertainment standpoint.
We're not going to let them get hit. We're gonna stack.
We're gonna change the rules on pass interference. We're going
to facilitate passing highlight driven leagues and not three yard

(52:56):
of the cloud of dust. Football and basketball has done
the same. We're gonna shut on hand checking. We're gonna
change the way defense is and offenses run. We want
more Donks who want more three pointers do that.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
We want more offense because offense is what what people
are entertained by. And I think I've been saying this
for the last couple of years since he's been in
the NBA. I think Wimby will never be a great
offensive Like forgive me, so we context that there is

(53:29):
going to be Wimby won't be an all time twenty
offensive No, I agree with He's really inefficient with the
ball as far as the scoring guy. Uh, he could
pass a little bit or big man. But defense, his

(53:50):
defense is entertaining, and that's why he could end up
being really really special as an NBA player.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
It's hard to make defense entertaining.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Like one of the greatest and most men, No, one
of the most h entertaining defensive players, Lebron James.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
You think so, Yeah, the.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Chase down block might be the most entertaining thing that
ever happened on defense.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Sure, it just doesn't happen a lot.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
But when you think about Lebron James, when it's all
said and done, you won't think of a last shot
he hit. You're gonna think most likely of some dope
pass or a fucking chase down block.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Okay, So I think Wemby is somebody who could bring
like a glamour to defense. A guy that could swat
the ball at half court and block nine shots in
the game and you know what I'm saying, and pickpockets
some little guard you know, and finish you know. I
think that's the catch.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
That was what Tumble was always trying to do.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Yeah, the fingerway. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
So, but now I understand this. I understand why entertainment.
We're in the business of entertainment. Like, it's so crazy
that I'm thinking about flying to New York just to
take a picture with Charlotte Mane or something that I
need to entertain He was like, oh, look to the
Brothers Club. No, no, no, any time for that. I
just need to take this picture.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Oh nothing, the brother Club. Just take a picture. It's
not time.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Because it has to fit in the storyline of entertainment.
But when you start being willing to fly to New
York and take a picture your commitment to your business. Now,
is that the place it needs to be for you
to become, you know, for you to excel in your business. Yeah,

(55:46):
I agree, there's no way possible. Before last week, I
would have ever flew anywhere. I wouldn't fly to Vegas
to take a picture with me. I wouldn't drive to
Los Angeles. I wouldn't drive sixty miles away, forty eight
miles away.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Take a picture with a nigga.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Yes you for last week, I know, I wouldn't drive
forty five forty three miles away to take a picture.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
But because of this new understanding, you understand this is
needed for entertaining people.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
It's not even needed, it's just how you entertain. Now
it's like, okay, let me keep the focus, let me
keep let me maintain your interest. I know what you're
interested in. Now there is a fine line of like,
you know, oh, you could be selling yourself, because again,

(56:39):
once you do this, all blozs is off. You can start,
you know what entertained people like Peter saying. You could say, Pete,
we're going to a Diddy trial. Huh We're going to
a Diddy trial?

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Pete.

Speaker 4 (56:50):
Oh oh well I forgot too.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
But but that would make sense. See, and that's the
point that you can't. Just was sucking a dick would
be entertained.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
No want to me.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
People would be entertaining if some nigga sucks some dick,
trust me, they will.

Speaker 4 (57:07):
Sex tape cell and the discussion around them always sell,
whether it's whatever kind of sex tape cell sex.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
So what I'm saying is they have to fit your
brand of business. If I did cocaine right now, it'll
be it'll go viral. Imagine I did cocaine on camera.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
It'll go viral and everybody will have the perception that
you've been doing this the whole time and just been
lying to everybody.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
But it don't fit the brand. So like that's the catch,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (57:36):
And I think that's where most people in the entertainment
business kind of can lose it.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
You got to push selling all the way to the
line and not push selling out.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Listen to what he said, Say that one more time, Pete.

Speaker 4 (57:48):
You got to push selling all the way to the
line and not push selling out.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
So going did you used to think entertaining was selling out.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Every part of it.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
And now you realize it doesn't really have to mean
sell out.

Speaker 4 (58:05):
You got to sell out the arena, not the brand.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
But to add to it, it's like it allows my
storytelling to come off a record further. It allows my
storytelling to go into places that are that capture the
imagination a little bit more. It's not about how true
this is to me at that moment, It's about how
true it is to you at that moment. If that

(58:33):
makes sense, Like, yeah, how true can I make this
for you at that moment? How much can I capture
your imagination based off of this idea.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
That's that's a true to some degree premise in my life.
This is the interest that I'm on. When you think
you'll catch more people being entertaining than yeah, if you know,
if you entertain people want to be entertained.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Because I'm trying to think it's what made you feel
just you know, goal to all of a sudden say,
you know what, I'm looking at it differently, and I
want to entertain more people instead of the way I
was just doing.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Was never trying to entertain people. Okay, that's what I'm
trying to get understand. I never was trying to entertain people.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
I was just like when I first got in the business,
I thought I was making money off rap songs?

Speaker 2 (59:26):
How good as a rapper? I was, how how good
can I make rap songs?

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Then I got into hip hop and I started understanding
that there was a craft, there's a there's a there's
an artistic merit in this stuff. And I started learning
about all that, and I still thought I was in
the business of selling rap songs.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
And again.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Last week, understanding what entertainment is about and then realizing
that I'm in the business of entertainment. It changed it clear,
a lot of things up things. The final things that
didn't make sense made sense to me now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Oh okay, so it's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Like again, being willing to fly to New York just
to take a picture shows my commitment to the business.
Like I was always committed to the business, but I
didn't know if the I didn't know the business was entertainment.
I thought the business was hip hop or rap record.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
So you was committed to your thought of what it was.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Sure, I was committed to what I didn't know. You know,
That's all you could because say I didn't I didn't
look at my I didn't look at other people as entertainment.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
But what made you look at entertainment? Last week? So different?
I didn't think of it as entertainment except that conversation
you had one day. It was a couple of conversations.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Okay, back to the point that I said even today
with Andre Herrel. Andre Herrel, Deaf Jam was a label
known for being street and brash. They were loud and brash, heavy,
D was heavy.

Speaker 4 (01:00:59):
D was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Relaxed and smooth, relaxing smooth, and Andre Herrel saw that
and took it to death. Jam and I would imagine
death Jam was like, I don't love about this. This
does not look like Ll COOLJ or no beastie boys.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
It's not it's not for a lack of better term
obnoxious in your face. Heavy was just like this polished act.
Heavy D could have came out in the sixties of
the seventies. He was a polished entertainer and that's not
necessarily the type of entertainment death Jam was selling at

(01:01:38):
the time. So when he started uptown, obviously signs a
bunch of that style of entertainment. And if you look
at Puff right, so a lot of that stuff is
very polished and clean and shiny and so looking bad
boy again, now I would have I could imagine when
Puff brought Biggie Andre Herrel like, hey, we need to
do a deal on this guy from Brooklyn, and he

(01:01:59):
looking at and he looking at Biggie Andre Herrell like
nigga what like he.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Knows he could sell Heavy D.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Heavy D is this big man, right, Him and Biggie
both are big guys, but Heavy D is is dancing,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Smooth, light skin at that time, Esh Curl you know,
or big Nigga's a pretty boy. Biggie is like this
black self described ugly, grimy nigga from Brooklyn. Andre like,
what are we supposed to do with this? See we

(01:02:35):
got heavy D. You want to go to that to
Biggie and he like, I got a feeling. He Puff
knew at that point he could clean Biggie up. And
Andre probably was like, nigga, what how you gonna clean
this motherfucker up? I wonder how Niggy and puff Man.
That's crazy, two different lines of it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
No, just in that business, so arista right, he puff
went and made a plate.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
To the same thing. Like Andre took heavy D and
started his own thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Puff took big and started his own thing and made
it happen at airstra. So it's like but knowing that
those things are happening. Depth Jam understood how they were entertaining.
Uptown understood how they were entertaining bad Boy understood how
they was.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Er certain acts that they took and wouldn't take it
fit this, Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Do they think they regret some of the times not
taking those acts at that time?

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Probably yes and no. Okay, probably yes and no because
the acts may not work the same in their infrastructure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Yeah, coming okay, So just coming out their house. People
don't expect to see something like that. I don't know
if I don't know if heavy D works.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
The same as I see what you're saying, you know,
if heavy D works the same way in depth Jam system,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Like, well, that's soft and just passed it off like,
oh no, we don't want to see that short somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
It'll be new. And I don't know if Biggie works
the same way at Uptown because he was a mix
of both.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
I don't think he was a mix of both. I
think he was just a mix of death Jam in Uptown. No,
he was just he was just death Jam. He was
just street. Yeah, he tried to bring a smoothness to
the street.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
That's Puffy. That's Uptown's influence on Puss. I'm saying. So
to me, it was like it was both of them mixed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
No, No, that's what Puff wanted to do A bad boy. Yeah,
that's what I mean. Bad Boy was a mix of.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Both of them. But that not was good.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
It only worked for Big Okay, they didn't like that's
why it works so well for Mace.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Yeah, you know what I mean, Like that, that's who
it was. Built for R and B. Mace.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
He was able to give different artists one song because
he was such a like. He understood music and he
knew which producers to work with and how to figure
it out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
He knew that and how to do the business.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
But if you look, he didn't really build a lot
of big not toys, big type brands out of that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Situation, long standing brands.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Yeah, I mean this is probably his second playing the
fame or himself because he's an uptown nigga mount Vernon,
you know, fresh fashionable, shiny suits like they used to
always say. So he understood the bad boy's mantra for entertainment.

(01:05:18):
Sug Shug figured it out. They want to call it
death Row, Sug said, death like death jam d e
f Row. Sug said, now we're gonna call it death Row.
And then now look how they build out all of
the music, all of the brandy jail cells outfits, you know,
man in an electric chair, you know, it's all built out.

(01:05:42):
Versus if they do death Row, it just feels like
an extension of something that exists. So Sug got that right.
He understood the entertainment business. And it's funny because I've
been in this business this whole time, and I never
thought of it as the entertainment business.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Right because you show rooted into culture and that you're
gonna look beyond that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
I didn't really get rooted into a culture at that. Well,
naturally I was, and I'm this how I grew up.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
But when I got in the business, I thought it
was a business of rap songs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Why would I think anything else? So you thought the
craft was what is entertaining by itself?

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
But that's still I think you just asked why one
too few times? Yeah, you know, like you like, I
thought the business was making rap songs. Well it is.
It is the business making rap So well, why do
people give a shit about rap songs? Because rap songs,
you know, carry a window into a culture that they're

(01:06:38):
not familiar with. Why do they care about that? Because
it's entertaining.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
It all goes to entertainment, m kay. So the question
of why is entertainment? No, No, we're saying that it
all goes back to entertainment. I'm the same. So I'm
just trying to figure out the key to entertainment to

(01:07:03):
hold focus.

Speaker 4 (01:07:05):
It depends on what ye what it is. You know,
typically a drummer.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
Like a drummer drumming is put you in awe watching
somebody have that type of coordination, handfeed everything to make
it work. A great drummer drumming is it puts you
in awe. It's like, wow, sure you know. A comedian
telling jokes on the corner. It is funny, it's humor.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
A man juggling.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
A man juggling bottles on a unicycle is all and exciting.

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
Yeah, and I think it is. He's gonna fall like
going back we're talking about last week with like sort
of escapism. Nine percent of the people, ninety nine percent
of the time, if they aren't distracted by a thing,
are thinking about a problem they need to fix. So

(01:08:04):
they're not just thinking about, Oh, this is so great,
I've got more pussy and money I know to do
with that. That's not normal. That's not the common moment
in the human experience. The common moment in the human
experience is shit, I gotta go to work tomorrow, Shit
I gotta pay this bill or whatever it is. It's shit.
Dot dot dot. Entertainment is full focus in the moment

(01:08:28):
for an extended period of time where that doesn't exist
for you, anymore. So, the longer you can be in
that moment, the better, because it's better than the other
moment worrying about the light bill, the annoying boss, the
ornery bitch girlfriend, or god knows whatever else.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Good looking out for tuning into the No Sllers podcast.
Please do us a favorite, subscribe, rate, comment, and share.
This episode was recorded right here on the West coast
of the USA. It produced about the Black Effect podcast
network and a radio Yeah