Does The NBA Have A Serious Injury Problem?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the No Dunks Podcast presented by FanDuel. We've
got a fun one today. I'm tas Mellis in the
classic factory. Beside me, it's the man in the middle,
Trey Kirby. Hey e oh yeah, I the man making
the match happ and he's got so many things on
the go. He's bringing in the doc from Ohio in

(00:25):
a second. It's JD. Hell, what's going on? JD. We're good.
We're good. We're so good because we've got doctor James
Porcher's joining us Viazuombre.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
He is.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thank you so much, doctor Borchers for joining us. You
wear so many hats. You've got such an extensive resume.
We're going to get to it as we go along
in this interview. We appreciate you joining us right now.
I'll start with a generic question for you, because one
of the hats that you wear as the president and
CEO of the US Council for Athletes Health that you

(00:59):
started seven years ago, you and your fellow doctors you
discuss you literally are hand to hand with teams organizations
from all age levels, whether it's you know, youth, high school, college,
and you get to the bottom of what's going on
with those teams and organizations trying to optimize their players' health.

(01:20):
So the generic question is, as you see here in
the NBA, there are a lot of injuries with stars.
Number one, is there a reason for that? Number two?
Is there anything that the NBA can do to adopt
sort of a generic plan to help those injuries.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, well thanks for having me guys.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
First of all, great to be on with you and
appreciate you taking on this topic and having me on
to talk about it. I think, you know, to start,
let me just say that I think athletics today, you know,
we are seeing more and more injuries at every level,
but certainly as you mentioned, in the sport of basketball,

(01:59):
and I think that you have to start looking back
at what is going on in USE sports or what's
been going on in U sports for the past fifteen years,
with increased volumes, increased sports specialization, and so you start
to add all that up over time, and no matter
what you're doing currently, there is an effect of everything

(02:20):
that's happened from AAU basketball to college basketball. And then
you see athletes getting into the NBA and the increased
then you know training that they're doing even at this level.
So I think there's a cumulative effect, right, and it's
not just about what happens once somebody gets to the NBA,

(02:43):
And I think we've got to look at you sport,
you know, and what's going on there to try to
affect some of the injuries that we're seeing. But then
I think, also, you know, why didn't we see as
much of this in the past.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
And I think we look at what.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
Goes on in the off season, what goes on with
load management, what goes on not just in the game,
but what goes on around the game, and how often
are we allowing athletes to recover, what are the you know,
what does the season look like, what's the cadence of
the activity level?

Speaker 2 (03:15):
And I think the NBA tries to do that.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
I think every sports league is trying to look at,
you know, how can we minimize those effects. But you
guys know, as well as any as anybody else, you start,
you know, adding games, wanting more games, more playoffs, add
in other events, international events, Olympic events, off season training.
That cumulative effect is just going to lead to wear

(03:38):
and tear and break down.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
So specifically, as you said, the accumulation that we've seen
especially with Achilles injuries. Is that stemming from youth ball,
as you said, like AAU all the way up to
the professional level. Is it just as we've seen with
Tyre's Hallibritten for instance, or Jason tamp all of these.
Is it just an accumulation or is it just these

(04:02):
one time events that just happened to happen now it has.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
A cumulative effect.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
In my opinion, it has to do with the amount
of load that that you know, that that Achilles for example,
is seeing over the course of a career, and the
increased amount of activity we just at the youth level,
at you know, adolescent level, people are just doing more.
They specialize. They don't you know, have multi sport athletes,
They're only playing one sport. And so you see the

(04:29):
cumulative effect of breakdown on a tissue, and I think
that plays a big role then in what happens. And
then you see these micro injuries or minor injuries, and
that can lead to, you know, to what we see
with the Achilles, and so certainly that plays a big
part in it. There may be just some predisposition for

(04:51):
an individual to have an Achilles injury, but I think
it's a cumulative effect of what you see and you know,
and micro injuries over time, and then partial injuries as
what ends up causing a lot of these soft tissue
type injuries, and especially in an achilles injury in a
jumping athlete like a basketball player.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
Hearing you explain it, it basically sounds like even young
players are getting to the NBA with a lot more
miles on their legs because they're playing a lot more
games through AAU, through their high school teams, their different
high school programs, and they're only playing in basketball games
rather than you know, the three sport athletes of this

(05:31):
guy was the best athlete in the entire school, so
of course he was our best player in every single sport.
That doesn't happen quite as often. Why why is that
the case? Why does specializing in basketball lead to more
injuries when you're playing basketball.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well, it's just you're doing the same activity over and
over and over again, you know, And think about AAU
guys sometimes play two, three, four games in a day. Yes,
we've heard of AAU kids playing you know, twelve games
in a weekend, and you start thinking about the cumulative effect.
I'm just telling you, younger athletes they get to college,
or they get through high school, get to college. Young
athletes in the NBA, they just have more wear and

(06:08):
tear on their bodies. And that's the professionalization of youth sport.
I mean, anything you know, you want to talk about,
it's just it's what we've done with youth sport. And
youth athletes can't train like adult athletes. They can't handle
the loads of adult athletes. Oftentimes, we're putting more on
them than we even are on college or professional athletes.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
So you're gonna end up with more problems and more injuries.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
And they may not show itself until you know, they
start to get further along in their career or they're
able to you know, compensate for some of that, but
then they're you know, you know, they're going to see
these injuries as they move forward. It's not just the
Achilles ten and teller tendon, you know, knee issues. You know,
we're seeing more hip issues. It's just the wear and
tear on an athlete, you know, with all the increased

(06:53):
volume and training that goes on at the youth.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Level, specifically with achilles. I've heard you talk about how
modern day recoveries for achilles are so much faster. Is
that the case across all sports? Is it just an
age thing where you see a younger player like I
brought up Tyrese Haliburton who just had it several months ago,

(07:18):
but we're expecting him back early. Why the change there?
Why has it become faster? I think you mentioned a
good point. We're seeing it in younger athletes. Younger athletes recover.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Better, you know, when you used to see the achilles
injury in the rec basketball league and a forty five
year old that's a lot different than a twenty five
year old, you know, and how they're going to recover.
I think the surgical techniques are obviously better today, but
the biggest thing is the rehabilitation, the constant rehabilitation that
goes on around these injuries, especially for professional athletes. They're
getting you know, round the clock rehabilitation and care and

(07:49):
that certainly helps them to recover faster.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
And so there's a benefit to that.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
And I think that you know, that ability to rehab
and not just doing it once or twice a week,
but when you're spending hours a day in a rehab
and recovering, you're just going to recover faster, and I
think we've seen some pretty amazing comebacks, you know, just
because of the advancement and rehabilitation science.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
And how we get people back from those types of injuries.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, as far as rehab and recovery, we all sort
of hear it, Oh, it's incredibly important, But then hearing
you speak about it in a lot of your interviews,
you prioritize, prioritize it so much. I just wonder with
the NBA, we don't have a sort of a uniform
plan across the board for the NBA and team by team,

(08:40):
we just don't have a Minister of Sports to implement that,
go do this. Is there some way for the NBA
to have something like that? Should they have sort of
a uniform plan? Well, I think that as much as
they can. I mean, you know, obviously each individual is
a little bit different. I think as much as they
can with scheduling, as much as they can with you know,

(09:03):
how the cadence of the season works.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
What resources are available to teams.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
I can tell you the NBA teams, I mean, they
have incredible resources. Obviously, They've got physical therapists and sports
scientists and rehabilitation specialist athletic training specialists, you know, with
their teams. But even with all of that, you can't
undo I think what's gone on in the past, and
I'm not trying to overemphasize that. In the NBA probably,

(09:29):
you know, just like all sports leagues, is most concerned
about what has already gone on to an athlete, you know,
when they get to the NBA, because you can't undo,
you know, the things that happened in the past, so
affecting youth sport, affecting you know, the education of youth sport,
what happens with young athletes, parents educating themselves on what's

(09:50):
important to make certain that an athlete can remain healthy
and competitive and perform at their best as.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
They go forward. There.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
You know, there's just no benefit to breaking your body
down at age fifteen and sixteen at the detriment of
what could happen to you when you're nineteen twenty twenty one.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
You might be in.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
College, or might be going into the NBA or onto
another higher level of sport. So as much as I'm
certain the NBA could could try to do some things,
it's really hard to un do what's happened in someone's past.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
We're dads here, what's the age that we should see
our kids actually start specializing because youth sport is incredibly competitive,
and it can at times feel like you're getting left
behind if you're not devoting yourself to just one thing
and doing everything you can to get better at whatever
your sport might be. But like you're saying, the intensity

(10:45):
of it, the regularity, the frequency of it can be
an overload for young athletes.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, look, the evidence is out there. You guys know this.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
The best athletes in the world and every sport are
multi sport. Athletes are good at a lot of different things,
and they play a lot of in sports. The development
of an athlete requires a lot of skills and sports
specialization at a young age doesn't improve your ability to
play that sport. And so I tell parents all the time,
let your kids play a lot of sports, probably until
they get into their you know, young or mid high

(11:15):
school ages, and then if there is a sport that
they love and they want to specialize, obviously you can
pay more attention to it then. But even then they
should be doing different things to continue to develop their bodies.
And look, just because you're spending you know, sixty hours
a week on a sport doesn't mean that you're going
to be great at it. You're going to be You're

(11:36):
going to be better if you if you have overall development.
So I think, especially in youth sport, it's a huge
mistake to think that, oh, my kid, you know, isn't
doing I think we put a lot of misperceptions out
there like, oh, if you're not training, you know, all
year round, then you're not going to be great at that.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
You know, it's just not the case. I mean, you
guys know this.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Like you go and watch athletes, it doesn't take very
much time at all to pick out who the great
athletes are, and they're usually really good at a lot
of different things if you give them something to do.
So I think in U sport, let your kids play
a lot of different sports, let them develop a lot
of different skill sets, and they're going to be better athletes.
They're also going to have less wear and tear. They're

(12:20):
not going to have burnout, they're not going to have
all the mental high giene issues that we see in
U sport burnout. I think the you know the idea
of having four fifth sixth graders playing on AAU teams
and traveling around the country and playing basketball all weekend,
and those sorts of things you just don't see. High

(12:41):
level athletes usually come out of that sort of setting.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Something we haven't seen covering the NBA for the last
twenty years or so is the number of calf and
hamstring injuries at this rate, this early in the season.
We saw this graph from Sportico and to see how
they've umped this much. Is there a reason, a standard
reason to just point out why calf and hamstring injuries

(13:09):
are happening?

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Jim, Yeah, it's just overall load.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
I mean, it's just, you know, it's just you know,
look at the time between the end of season start
of season, what players are doing during that time. Again,
I know I've beaten it up, but the you know,
the the you know history of the amount of load
that's been there, and then I think, just what you're asking,
you know, I heard a coach recently talk about it

(13:34):
from the NBA of like we're just doing nothing but playing,
like we don't even have time to recover, We don't
have time to practice, We're traveling, Are we tired, you know, fatigue?
Are we really giving people a chance to recover and
what's the cumulative effect of that? And I just think eventually,
you know, you're going to see this kind of breakdown.
And so I think, you know, as much as you

(13:55):
want to try to be you know, use periodization and
trying to say we're going to limit back to backs,
we're going to limit you know what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Players don't practice much during the season.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
They don't really have time, you know, they're trying to
do things to get their body right, but they're playing
a lot of games.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
You mentioned earlier talking about achilles injuries that you can
just be predisposed to an achilles injury. I assume the
same is true for hamstring injuries, calf injuries. Is there
anything that certain players can do to like combat that
sort of thing. I'm thinking about a guy like Zion
Williamson who will be healthy for ten or fifteen games,

(14:33):
and then that seems like a hamstring injury is always
the thing that always seems to take him down. Are
there ways to sort of battle those things that just
keep popping up?

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, yeah, the first thing is is don't get injured.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
I mean, the most predictive thing for those kind of
injuries or previous injuries. So the more of them you have,
the more likely you are to injure, you know, a
hamstring er, you know a calf. But the other thing
is paying attention to what we call prehab or doing
the thing things that are going to help to prevent
injury rather than just playing your sport, and dedicating is
about as much time to that as you do to

(15:08):
your sport, because if you're not healthy, you're not helping
your team. And so if you're predisposed of that kind
of injury, if you've had that kind of injury, you
get almost double down and spend as much time with
a therapist or rehabilitation specialist athletic trainer to make certain
that you're doing all of the preventative exercise, all the
preventive flexibility treatment that you can to avoid that type
of injury.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
But in any sport, and.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Especially in a sport like basketball, if you've had a
previous hamstringer calf injury, and if you've had recurrent injuries,
the risk of that injury goes way up. And so
the as you guys know, just look at the players,
if you don't have injury, you're just so much less likely.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
To be injured.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
One interesting thing we see in the NBA. Is there
haven't been a ton of injuries with specifically tall players recently,
but players are getting taller. Lineups are getting taller. I
don't know if there's something that we can we can
just say, well, those players are going to get injured more,
but really they haven't. Are these taller lineups that are

(16:10):
happening in the NBA something that should be looked at, speculated,
worried about, because really it hasn't been something that has
been a problem in recent history. As we see this
graft from there, they're getting taller mainly because they are
getting more skilled. The taller players are getting more skilled,

(16:30):
so we're seeing them and coaches are saying we got
to go bigger. Is that something that we should be
watching or is there anything to note of player's height
right now?

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Well?

Speaker 3 (16:42):
I actually think that if you look back in history,
think about the tall players. I'm thinking about a guy
like Greg Godin, I mean, just playing down in the basket.
Is skill set you know of tall players was really
in the post. But look at the skill set in
the athletic development of taller players today. I mean, the
way they handle the ball, the way they move is
so much better than what it was in the past.

(17:05):
And so I think that again in that development of
being an athlete, of how you develop your skill set
is so important, much more so than the height of
a player. So I think you look at a guy
like you know, Katie or one of these guys, you know,
I mean, look at how they move, look at how
they handle the ball, look at their athleticism as opposed

(17:26):
to how they run. I mean, think about that, and
then look at the people that have had a lot
of injuries, foot injuries, and thinking about how they moved
and the you know what they were, what people were doing,
and you know the older era I guess of the NBA,
and you know, at a younger age, these these taller
athletes are developing a better skill set, they're better athletes,

(17:48):
and they're actually going to be better off again if
they're doing things other than just you know, standing in
the post all the time or doing the same activity
all the time. So I don't know that shape matters
as much as some of the things we've talked about before,
But I just think you're just seeing amazing athletic ability
out of taller athletes, which I would say, you know,
if you look at generations past, decades past, we just

(18:10):
didn't see that type of athleticism out of you know,
taller athletes because they were kind of put into a
certain position until we could learn that, hey, they really
can be athletic, they can do some different things.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
No, to hear the positivity is fantastic. To hear that
the game, the game is better as we've been watching
it get better. As you said, we've been doing the
show forever. And yes, taller players just have better skill sets.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
They can do stuff.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
They can do amazing stuff people that are seven feet tall.
I mean to watching that.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I mean, look, guys fifteen years ago, if you'd just
seen a seven footer, you just say, get down on
the block. You know, every once in a while, you
know you saw a guy like Check had run the
floor or whatever, but he rolls out on the perimeter
handle and the ball. I mean, you know, look, I
mean it's just amazing to watch some of these these
guys today and the skills that they've developed.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
And you're your work with as I said, the youth
level and college high school as well. Do you see
all players just sort of working on that skill set
no matter the height is it just what is happening
at that level, They're just taught in a different way.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Now, Yeah, I think it's a game. I think you
just see a different approach to the game of basketball.
I think how people approach the game of basketball and
what they you know, are modeling. For example, after these
NBA players, it doesn't matter that you're tall. You can
still develop an incredible athletic skill set. And these kids

(19:42):
are asked to do that now because you can see
the effect it can have on the game. So rather
than just spending all your time, you know, down in
the lane and you know, garden the post and doing
those sorts of things. I think certainly the way the
game's played and the way the game's being played at
youth and high school and college is different, and that allows,

(20:03):
you know, those athletes to develop that skill set.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
And it's a lot more fun too, because if you
were a big guy in the nineteen nineties, you had
to wait for a guard to pass you the ball
rather than just going out there and get ind of yourself.
Steve Kerr is a guy who's been really outspoken about
the increased rate of injuries in the NBA. He's blamed
some of the problem on the increased pace. He's also
had a lot of things to say about the Warriors

(20:27):
schedule early in the season, with them playing multiple back
to backs and having to travel across the country a
whole bunch of times. So to me, there's kind of
like three pieces to what Steve Kerr has been saying.
The pace of the game, the schedule and just the
amount of games that they're playing on a night to
night basis, and the travel in between the games. Is
there something that you see that's kind of the biggest

(20:47):
factor in the increased rate of injuries?

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Well, I think it's how do athletes recover? And I
think all three of those things play into that. Look,
I think the secret Sauce stat to athletics today is recovery.
How do you recover physically, mentally, emotionally all that allows
you to perform at your highest level. And if you're
not able to do that because you're not sleeping well,
because you're traveling a lot, because you've got back to
back contests, because you don't ever have a name time

(21:14):
to practice or to you know, to do the things
that you need to get your body to recover. If
your nutrition isn't good, if your hydration isn't good. All
of that is going to add up and lead to
more wear and tear of what we see And I
know people talk about, oh, that's the way it was
in the past, but I don't think we see saw
as much of maybe what coach, you know, what Steve's

(21:34):
referring to, as you know, the travel, the back to backs,
how the game's played today. Are we taking all that
into consideration and then thinking about what an athlete needs
to be able to perform?

Speaker 2 (21:46):
And so I think all of those play a huge role.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
But you guys know is just like anybody else, take
a couple of coast to coast flights and see how
you feel if you're about an NBA player and if
you don't have the right sleep and your sleep gets
disrupted and hydration, you do as much as you can
to mitigate that. I know that the NBA and their
teams put a ton of study into how to best
do that.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
But look, you get done with the.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
Game and you got to jump on a plane or
you got to fly somewhere, You've crossed time zones, you're
sleeping differently, how's your nutrition? Even if you pay attention
to all that fatigue is going to set in and.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
You're going to be at risk.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
So I think all of those things play a role
in how athletes recover and then ultimately how they perform
and what risk they're at.

Speaker 4 (22:35):
Yeah, I'm already thinking about my load management plan for
the holidays, because I know it's going to throw me
off from a living standpoint, traveling back and forth and
just eating for you know, a week and a half straight.
But listening to you talk, Doc, it sounds like you
are generally in support of the way that NBA players

(22:56):
have gotten smarter about load management and you know, resting
maybe the third night of three games in four nights,
or the second night of a back to back. There
was the big Player Participation Policy which came into effect
in the NBA quite recently to keep the star players
on the court. But it sounds like in general you

(23:17):
would support the plans that have been put in place
where we want our stars on the court as much
as possible, but the way to keep them on the
court is by keeping them healthy.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, there's no question.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
I mean, I don't think it's fair to ask any athlete,
regardless of the level, to try to compete in conditions
where they're just not able to perform at their best,
and you know, what does your best look like? Not
everybody has it every night, but you know, let's make
certain that we recognize how people perform at their best
and what we're asking them to do, and how that

(23:48):
maybe look different today than it maybe did in generations past.
And especially I just think looking at the athletes, and
I just can't emphasize it enough. I just think it's
different what these as leets have done in the youth
athletic space coming up, and that wear and tear on
their body is just different than it was twenty five
thirty years ago.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
It's sort of doing different things.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
They're playing multiple sports, they weren't playing as much AAU,
they weren't traveling as much. They just didn't have those
sorts of effects. So I think you got to take
all that into account and you make the best plan
you can moving forward. I think people just need to
recognize that just because you've got three games in four
nights and maybe somebody's sitting out that third game, it's

(24:31):
not just that third game that's part of the issue,
and it's not just what's going on this season that's
part of the issue. It's part of the whole environment
around sport. And it might be what that twenty four
or twenty five or thirty year old was doing when
they were fifteen, that's a lot different than what a generation.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Ago was doing when they were fifteen. That's leading to
some of this.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
We've got it shortened the season.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
Yeah, that sounds like a lot of the cause is
too much basketball unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah. One thing that I think at.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
A young age, Yeah, I do. I think.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
I think, you know, I like I told you guys, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh,
eighth graders, and the amount of basketball that they're playing,
amount of any sport that they're playing, if they're specializing,
it's crazy. I mean, I look, I'm an old guy now,
but I think back to the days, you know, men
think about that kind of sports specialization.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
First of all, my parents would have never you know,
would have never done that. You just played for your school.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
But now, I mean, you've got kids that are playing
way more than eighty two games in the year in
their own uh you know, in their own season.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
So I yeah, I do.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
I think sports specialization at youth the level is a
huge deal. And just look at the athletes and I
just told you guys, you know, if you get injured,
the likelihood of re injury is so much greater, and
that carries through with you, that doesn't go away.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Before we let you go, I want to end on
one positive note. You said the eighty two games. We
are seeing players play more of those eighty two games
seasons than in prior eras of the NBA. Guys are
just having longer careers. Is it the recovery? The knowledge
that that's what comes along with being an NBA player? Now,

(26:12):
how they take care of their bodies.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
You just can't believe the amount of emphasis right on
how they recover, what they're putting into their you know, recovery,
how they pay attention to what they eat, the teams
they surround themselves with, and I think, you know, it's
incredible to see the commitment that you know, people can
make and be playing into their thirties and forties and
you know, and look at what they're able to, you know,

(26:36):
what they're able to do, but that that takes an
amazing commitment, It takes an amazing team around you, It
takes amazing dedication. And not to say that you know,
people weren't dedicated like that, but we understand the science
better now, we understand what it takes to performance your.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Highest for a longer period of time.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
And I just think you see more athletes dedicated to
their craft, dedicated to what it takes to do that
for a long period time, and I think that helps,
obviously in those prolonged careers that we're seeing now. It's
just amazing to see how long some of these folks
are playing. But I know what some of these guys
do in the off season. I know what some of

(27:15):
them are doing in the season, and how much time
and how many of their own resources they're dedicating to that.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
And I think that's why you're seeing it.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
Well, you said you're an old guy. So are we,
and we're trying to prolong our careers as well. We
don't have the resources that a Lebron James has to
pour into his body to stay healthy at forty one.
What's something that us normal people can do to stay
healthy when we're trying to get out there and you know,

(27:44):
make a highlight reel for Instagram.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, I think there's kind of three. You know things
that you can do.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
One, right, is exercise every day, And that doesn't mean
that you got to go you know, you know, destroy
yourself every day. But I think exercise, you know, you're
moving and you're doing things obviously, is going to keep
you healthy. Number two is nutrition, paying attention to nutrition.
You got to live life. But you know, how do
you how do you eat and how do you take
care of yourself? And then I think the third thing is,

(28:12):
you know, do you give yourself a chance to recover?
I mean, we are society is so used to burning
the candle and I'm guilty of this. You know, put
in these huge days and you know, do you rest,
do you recover? Do you take time to you know,
gear back a little bit? Are you sleeping appropriately? And
I think if you follow those things, you're going to
prolong a lot, right, You're gonna you're gonna be able

(28:33):
to do things for longer and and be able to
you know, do the things you like to do for longer.
So I think if you take you know, what's my
activity level?

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Look like?

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Am I active every day? Do I pay attention to
my nutrition? And then do I find a way to recover?
Do I sleep well? Do I you know, find some
time where I'm gearing back and not letting stress and
you know, and all those things affect me. If you can,
if you can accomplish that, I think you got a
great chance to be healthy and happy and do the
things that you like to do.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
I was worried you were going to say sleep. I
knew it was coming up. But it's just so fun
to watch those West Coast games.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
You know, you can wear, you can wear, you can
wear all the wearables you want, you can take all
the supplements you want. The best recovery modality out there
is sleep, and there's nothing that substitutes for it. So
if you don't sleep, you can do all these other things,
and you can monitor all these other things. Sleep is
you know, it's just imperative. It's just it's kind of

(29:29):
the secret sauce. As I tell people to like, you
don't have to invest much in it, accept your time
and commitment to doing it.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
Connect me exactly. Yeah, Yeah, committed to Sleep is free.
One of the few things out there that's right.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Sleep is free.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah. Well, we won't let force you to listen to
this story. I've got Jim about my lack of sleep
last night. It was just too hot. It's too hot
in my bed. My wife and I my wife and
I have had separate plankets for years. Anyways, we'll stop there. Jim,
thank you so much for coming on. I hope to
have you back on later in the season. Appreciate you

(30:06):
coming on.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, thanks guys anytime. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
All right, Jim, Doctor James Borchers joining us today. We've
got lots to get to. We've got Franz Wagner injury news.
We got to talk about plenty of other trade proposals.
What do you what do you smiling about?

Speaker 4 (30:25):
I slept that last night was Yeah, I'll play the
last five minutes for our for our wives. Yeah, we're
turning down the tenths, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Well, mine was that it was too cold in my
room last Friday, so we went back to that the
heavy duvet on my side because I woke up because
it was too cold and I was too hot.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
I was sweat, all right.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
I was sweating. I was sweating, hotter than a workout
that I do. Uh, it's literally I'm still Wetways, we'll
get to everything I mentioned there, but first word from
our sponsors.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
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Speaker 1 (31:52):
Back with the Show. I actually just went to FanDuel
to see if they added a line on how many
games Joel Embiid versus Lebron James will play in the future,
who's going to play more? Essentially, they haven't added it.
I wouldn't mind, just like a private website, private URL
and FanDuel for us, even if you're not going to
put it out there, put it out there for us, because.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
It's a that's a great question money Mellis's picks. Who
would you take Lebron or Joel Embiid.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
I got Embid in part because I don't know when
Lebron's retiring. It might be this year, could be his
last year. Yeah, so I'm taking the guy who's getting
paid for multiple years beyond this one.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
But I guess the argument would be that even if
Lebron only plays one season, maybe he plays more games
in one season than Embiid plays in the next three
and a half.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
I agree. That's why it's a great bet.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
All right.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
So I would say, if I were setting the line,
I would say FanDuel goes Embiid minus one fifty.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
So he's a heavy favorite.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
He's the favorite. Yeah, I think that's a pretty strong favorite.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yeah. Maybe I think you're going a little too heavy.
I think it's right fun minus one twenty. Yeah, minus
one twenty.

Speaker 4 (32:59):
He's coming down the other side. Apparently.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
I'm still taking him.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
Get your votes in, I'll throw I'll pull up here
in a second. On that, well, I talk about Franz Wagner.
The Magic got some sort of good news yesterday. Franz
Wagner avoided a major injury as an MRI showed no
damage to his knee, but he's got a high ankle
sprain after taking that hard fall against the Knicks. Now,

(33:23):
there's no official timeline for his return, that's just how
the Magic do things. But a high ankle sprain usually
keeps players out two to four weeks. The Magic said
it will depend on how Franz responds to the treatment.
So they're kind of just training this as an ankle
sprain and saying, hey, whenever he's back, he will be back.
What do you think about this task, Franz Wagner avoiding

(33:43):
a major, major injury.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah, I think you got to be extremely happy that
no tendon, no soft tissue injury. Is doctor Borcher's mentioned there,
that's that's the optimal experience. No lea knee ligament, no tenant,
it's a high ankle sprain. As Scham's originally reported, the

(34:05):
general return is two to four weeks. So yeah, it's
it's it's an optimal situation. And I kind of like,
I think this has become a habit of NBA teams
now just to say we are not setting a timeline,
and if we do set a timeline, it's way few
further in the future than his actual return date. I

(34:27):
think that's happening more and more. We saw it a
little bit with Luca earlier this year. Now it's not
wasn't way further in the future, but you know, a
week when he'll be reevaluated and he came back in
you know, six days. There's another one that I'm forgetting
about already that already happened. There was definitely another one, so.

Speaker 4 (34:46):
Yeah, yeah, Ad, maybe I don't know what it was.
Somebody came back from a calf strain a little bit early.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, So in this situation, Paul Bancaro now has the
opportunity just to be more of the guy. Is that
a bad thing? I know you mentioned that you're kind
of congzant. What's happening there in Orlando?

Speaker 4 (35:07):
Well, I like Polo as a player for sure, but
the magic took off when he went down with injury.
They had started turning things around before he went down
with his malady. The thing with Polo is that he
handles the ball and pounds the ball a lot more
than Franz Vogduy does. Franz will get off of it
as soon as it's time to get off of it.
He's a right play machine, and Polo's not always that guy.

(35:30):
But I think in his couple of games returning to
the Magic before Franz went out with injury, he was
really trying to fit in with what they were doing.
They're playing a lot more guards, they are moving the
ball quickly in the half court scenarios, they're actually scoring
a bunch of fast break points, and it looked to
me like he was trying to be a part of
what the Magic had going on. They need him to

(35:52):
both fit in and fit out at the same time.
They need him to be the guy who can score
in the last five seconds of a show, even though
Desmond Bain has been really good doing that the past
couple of weeks. But they also need him to move
the ball the way Franz did, to get off of
it when it's time to not be the one who
has to have the assist, just be the guy who
gets the ball moving. So I think he can do that.

(36:15):
It's just going to be a different sort of style
of play for polo than what we've seen, and you know,
a fewer mid range jumpers. I think is good. Getting
to the rim is good. Franz is getting downhill consistently,
but it looked like a concerted effort on Boncaro's part
to try and be a part of what the Magic
have going on. So I'm a little optimistic that he

(36:37):
can blend the way he usually plays with the way
that Franz Wagner he usually plays bad news, though I
would say for the Magic's Cup chances, unfortunately, but good
news all things considered. With the way he went down,
I looked nasty. So if he only misses a month,
I think even that would be awesome.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Right right right, And they're gonna hold him out, you know,
the longer the better. As we see with a lot
of scenarios here, janis to Gumpo out two to four weeks,
and Doc has said we are going to push it.
We know Giannis wants to push it the other way.
He wants to come back as soon as possible, because
that's the groupo. But we're going to push it the
other direction. They're busy practicing. Four days off. He said,

(37:17):
we've got four days off in between games. Two of
those days we're going to take off because they can relax,
which was I thought was interesting. It's about recovery, man,
it is about recovery. It's very very important. Lebron James
knows about that, and that's why in our poll, I'm
a little surprised two thirds of people, sixty seven percent
of people think Lebron James is going to play more
games in the rest of his career. And rap Stallion

(37:41):
sixty six one five jumps in and he said, if
you make that an official poll, it'll give Bron the
inspiration to prove the MB voters wrong. He'd play till
sixty if need be. I disagree with that. I think
he's kind of done with any any sort of accolades
or numbers. I don't even know if he really cares
if he gets to Robert Parrish's most games played record,

(38:04):
which he could this year if he played all the
way through the end of the season.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
It's like really close now, right with how many games
he missed at the beginning of the season.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
I think he's kind of done with that.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
I think Lebron is very aware of every record he
has a chance of possibly setting, so I think he
will stay around until he has that one for sure.
It might be this year.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, I just don't think it's an even It's not
that much of a record. But you know, you're right,
I know that's one that could be passed one day,
you know, maybe no alps.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
Now, well, I mean, I guess I wouldn't have thought
that Robert Parrish would get broken. But then once players
started coming into the NBA as high school players again,
it opened the door for that being the case. But
I mean, there's nobody like Lebron who started when he
was eighteen and is still going at forty one, nearly
forty one, And it doesn't feel like this is his
last season. We will know ahead of time when it's

(38:52):
Lebron's last season, unlike Chris Paul.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
So interesting, interesting debate. Maybe yeah, well it's unlikely that
this is his last season.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
But he's just going to retire at the end of
a year. No way, I want the retirement tour. Yeah,
but I know.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
But at the same time, he didn't even play to
start this season. Do you want to make your your
tour timing you don't show up?

Speaker 4 (39:19):
Like the first time ever in his life, he said,
even when he's a nine year old, he was playing
at the start of the season. He's saying that won't
happen again next year. Celebrate me when I'm back in
Cleveland helping them try and win another title. Just watch that. Yeah,
start his end his career where he started it.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Maybe he'll be a Chris Paul. Yeah for sure. Maybe
he'll be a Chris Paul and announce it a month
in knowing it's like okay, maybe if things don't go
well here in December where he starts to feel older,
he'll be like, all right, I'm done. I'll let you
guys know, but you're right. Be sure he feels it
in Chris Paul, he is still Lebron James, so he
could last more.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
In other magic news, Desmond Baine was fined thirty five
thousand dollars for chucking that ball at oh Giananobi second.
Finally the year for Desmond Baine, he got docked two
thousand dollars for his ejection in the Hawks game, where
he wasn't as nasty as his throw off in Nyaka Conglu.
It was more of like a like a volleyball spike.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, that one. This was hilarious.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
This one was hilarious. Worth it you think, Yeah, I
throw the ball that hard. I think you should be
allowed to do that.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, And I would say, you know, after the spike
on Anak Conglu, the magic they turned things around. I
got a weak whistle today. They turned things around at
Bodeswall for their NBA Cup game tonight in their quarterfinal
against the Miami Heat.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Who I Shall See twenty twenty two. Also, Bain was
fined for kicking the ball into the stands as an
underrated temper. Boy. You know, Desmond Baine likes to get
into it with some people. Maybe tonight, with the bright
lights of the Cup game shining upon him, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
It some more angry. It was hilarious though.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
It is pretty funny. A lot didn't to do that.
You could have just turned and took the ball down
the court.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, he just threw it off him. Hey, it's off him.
We're good hard.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Ball and last Night's Action Action. Last Night's Action, Anthony
Edwards scored forty points, but the Sun snapped the Timberwolves
five game win streak thanks to a big night from
money Mark Williams in a sick rookie battle, Derek Queen
got his first triple double, but Dylan Harper got his
first game winners. The Spurs beat the Pels fun one

(41:27):
down in New Orleans, and the Pacers beat the Kings
thanks to twenty eight and twelve from Andrew Nemhardt. Any
of these games interest you, Tassi.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Well, that Phoenix Minnesota game, it's so fun. We try
and talk about everything and every player. And I know
I give Colin Gillespie lots of love, but Mark Williams,
as you just said, he's freaking important for that team,
and somehow he's playing and he's not getting injured. And
speaking of temper boys, Rudy Gobert pushed him to get
ejected in the third quarter. That was pretty key in

(41:54):
this game. And then Colin Gillespie caught fire in the
fourth quarter, scoring eleven points for them. He had a
step back, he got space on Jane McDaniels on a drive.
Was there a little bit of a chicken arm? I
don't think it was a chicken arm. I think he
just had his arm there and it wasn't a push off.
But the guy scoring eleven points in the fourth quarter
is so key. If the Minnesota Timberwolves could just pluck

(42:18):
Colin Gillespie off the other team's bench and put him
on theirs, they would be so excited because they are
so desperate for another guard. He saw Bones Highland playing
in the fourth quarter for this team. That guy had
played one minute over the previous three weeks, about three
weeks of games, and then he hit three buckets in
the fourth quarter.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
Yeah, he's doing a little little celebration.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Sorry, celebrating hitting a shot. Now. I'm not saying that
that's gonna be the future of the Minnesota Timberwolves, but
that's how desperate they are.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
Exactly like, he had barely played and they dusted him off,
and he actually played pretty well. But I don't think
a reliable option for the Timberwolves. And like you're saying,
they just don't have reliable options because otherwise Edward's played
well well, Randall played pretty well. Gobert was doing well
until he went crazy and you know, knocking Mark Williams

(43:06):
out of the air, super dangerous play. He deserved to
be ejected for hitting the guy as he was jumping,
but Mark Williams has also taking it to him. On
the other end, I thought he played really well. Six
sons in double digits. I do think it's interesting, though,
fifth forty point game of the season for Anthony Edwards
and the Timberwolves are only two and three when he
goes for forty. The guy's having an awesome year. He's
almost a fifty to forty ninety player averaging like twenty

(43:29):
eight a game. But similar to the way Donovan Mitchell
has played with the Cavaliers. Sometimes it's just like you
have to score this many points for us to do
anything on the offensive end of the court. So nice
stuff for the Suns to get that road win without Booker.
But I really think the Timberwolves are a team that's

(43:50):
in need of some sort of a trade to take
a little bit of a step forward in the West.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, I know. I talked about Chris Paul as soon
as he announced his return. Iron Man thought, if he's
going to get traded to a team that has any hopes,
that Minnesota would be it. But at the same time,
he definitely needs somebody who can create for himself, and
as great as Chris Paul is, it's not him right now.

(44:15):
I think anything would help. We've seen it in the past.
They try many guys. They've tried, you know, Monte Morris
last year. They try guys to be that other one
besides Anthony Edwards who can create for himself. So I
don't know how much Bones Hihland plays for this team,
but Anthony Edwards apparently he talks to the coaches every

(44:39):
day trying to get Bones Island involved, and yeah, it's
not Rob Dillingham, and it's they're desperate. They're desperate for somebody.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
I think Bones Highland is a player that players love
because he can score like he's a great one on
one player and he can get a bucket. And that's
probably why Anthony had Wards has a lot of respect
for him, and certainly Austin Rivers had a ton of
respect for this guy. On the broadcast last night, he
could not stop talking Bones Highland up as if Bones
tailand has really established himself in the NBA. So of

(45:11):
course I had to go and figure out why is
Austin Rivers love Bones Highland so much? Oh, he played
as a Denver nugget when Bones Hihland was a rookie.
I can see him taking Bones Highland under him his
wing and say, here's how you I so buddy, here's
how you chuck up some shots.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
That's funny.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Who was the other guy on the broadcast with them?
I didn't know who that guy was.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
It wasn't Tuning it. It was Robbie Hummel.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
No, No, it wasn't. It was Noah Eagle. It was
Austin Rivers, and then the other guy who was on
the Sun's bench. They kept going to him, but I
didn't recognize him and I didn't know who his voice was,
and I just never heard them say what his name was.
Let me know who that guy was, and let me
know how it's possible. Grayson Allen did a step back

(45:55):
step through jumper, took two steps to his left, pump
fake the three steps through, perfectly, shoots like a twenty
foot floater, switched it in. This was beautiful. A guy
like Grayson Allen shouldn't be able to pull that off.
That's what doctor James is talking about. Players are too
good these days. Yeah, Grayson Allen pulling off James Harden moves.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
So you're telling me you're supportive of that totally legal move.
Footwork was Colleen, It was. It was. I know people
were hating it. It looked weird.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
It takes three steps without going without dribbling, and he
goes all over the.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Place, but covered so much court legal Eagle. It was
pretty impressive. So you're cool with Anthony Edwards being selected
for the All Star team because I know you were
contemplating maybe Julius Randall deserves a little bit more love
on this team. But Anthony is they.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
Need an All Star and ant is the guy for sure.
He is he is. You know, I feel the same
way about him and Randall that they are both really
good players. They're instrumental Tomberwolf's chances and them getting wins.
But there are times when it feels like they're just
piling up numbers and it doesn't necessarily have an effect

(47:06):
on the way the team is rolling.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well, let's give a little love to the Spurs and
how they handled the end of that game, because they
beat the Pels and it should have been it shouldn't
have been as close as it was. But watching Dylan
Harper with that essentially the game winner taken as the
Deek bay into the paint. That guy had four buckets
at the rim over the last six minutes of this game.
He was taking whoever it was. You get an incredible

(47:31):
guy like Herb Jones on him, he went by him.
He had a Jose Alvarad who did a really good
job sting in front that one time that was the
spin got stopped and spin the other direction. That was
freaking awesome. And they've got great vibes. I don't know
when Wenby comes back, but to see Harper out there
and Fox and Castle now who's back, They're just they're

(47:52):
cohesive and if you believe the postgame interviews on the
press conference table, Dylan Harper's said, quote, there's no ego
between us three. We all just want to see each
other succeed no matter what. End quote. That's a rook
talking about himself and Fox who's signed this monster contract
and Castle is he just a rook saying the right things?

Speaker 4 (48:13):
And I buy in He's he's saying the right things,
and the way he plays it feels like he's about
the right things. Dylan Harper, I think the same is true.
First tofon Castle, it's like they're all taking big shots
when they need to. Fox hit a deep step back too,
that was big time in this game. Made the clutch
free throws as well. But like you're saying, it was
Harper who was carrying the team through the majority of

(48:33):
the fourth quarter. Some of those finishes were tough man.
He's coming with his right hand, playing with his offhand,
playing through contact. I was super impressed. Yeah, Wemby's back
practicing now. I believe so he's on the way to
his return. The Spurs have done a great job without him.
In their last ten games, they're seven and three. They
got the sixth best offense in the league, but I

(48:54):
think they're also like bottom six. They're twenty fourth in
defense in those ten games. Wemby will change that. He's
a defense as soon as he comes back. If they're
able to play offense at the level they have since
he's gone down with the injury, the Spurs become a
real second tier contender. I think in the Western Conference
they've really clicked, very very impressive the way they do things.

(49:16):
I think it's because the pregame music that Keldon Johnson chooses.
Oh yeah, I had a thousand miles by Vanessa Carlton
going on. Everybody loving it except for Harrison Barnes, who
just got his hands on his head.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Camp.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
Are we seriously listening to Vanessa Carlton right now? Oh
guess these young boys.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Love it that JD was Vanessa Carlton one of your
your Spotify Yeah? Yeah, yeah. They literally it's incredible that
they are one game back of the second seed. They
are so freaking close. I mean, it's super tight between
two and five, Lakers, Nuggets, Rocket Spurs, but without Wemby

(49:55):
and as you said, could be coming back. I wouldn't
be surprised if we see him take the court in
the NBA Cup game.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Ooh, the willis reed of the Cup. He's back.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Do they need him? Yeah, it would be nice. They're
playing super super super good teams now. But Tilon Harper
was freaking I always expect them to see you watching him.
You expect him to go left, but he can easily
go right. He can score wherever. So that's fun to watch.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
Man gets downhill all the time. That was a fun game.
Great stuff from Derek Waen. We'll talk about him and
a little bit. Pacers have won for their last six
and they got their guys healthy. They beat the Bulls twice,
they beat the Wizards, they beat the Kings last night.
Only three and a half games out of tenth place
in the Eastern Conference.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Oh yeah, I don't think they're dead yet.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
No, And you know, we'll see what happens with the
Bucks going forward. I see Scham's just said that the
writing is on the wall when it comes to trading, Yannis.
The Bulls have been terrible for two weeks, there's a
chance the Pacers make a run at the play in tournament,
I would say, and a new guy alert, new guy
alert for the Pacers. Ethan Thompson. I guess he's played

(51:05):
four games. This is the first time I've seen him.
Three offensive rebounds in the fourth quarter. Pacers scored four
points on those plays. He's the first Ethan in NBA history. Huh,
how about that. We've had an Eton Thomas. I know
that's what you were thinking. You're like, what about Eton Thomas?
But he was Eton, not Ethan.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
I was totally shocked when you said that. I didn't
think of Eton Thomas at all. I just would think
that there'd be one from like the fifties or sixties
or something. Yeah, it's a popular nick.

Speaker 4 (51:36):
There's a lot of Ethans. I've met a lot of Ethans.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
A lot of kids, so there will be plenty more
NBA players named Ethan.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
Just the first, Just the first. Yeah, they're all looking
up to Ethan Thompson. They're saying, remember when he got
those three offensive rebounds in the fourth quarter, the Pacers
scored four points. How exciting. I got a couple of
minor slap drops recently. Let's talk about him in the
up down Report. Oh yeah, we're slowly but surely walking

(52:12):
in the slop season. The troughs are filling up. The
People's Insider Jake Fisher had some fresh intel over on
the Steinline Substack, writing that the Miami Heat are looking
like a buyer at the trade deadline, and they have
had internal discussions about trading with Memphis for John Morant.
Task you up or down on the Heat trading for Jaw.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
I'm still down. I was down when the John Morant
rumors started. I would find it difficult to take him on.
If you're the Miami Heat, you'd probably be trading Tyler
Hero back. Those two guys are such in similar roles,
But I'm buying the devil that I know in Tyler Hero.

(52:54):
You know that he is going to number one more
likely play than Jo Ra and he played seventy seven
games last year. I think can he even grow even more?
I think there's a possibility those two guys, in Morant
and Hero, came into the league at the same time.
They're in the same draft, and I think that's fair
to question. Oh well, it's been fair to question. I

(53:17):
should say that Tyler Hero may or may not be
the guy on a good team. He can't play deep well,
He's adapted. They were part of he was part of
a great defense last year. He could still grow and
get better. As we're sort of contemplating about John Morant,
will he come back now? There's a possibility he does
come back to his form, there is, But I couldn't

(53:38):
do it. I just I just couldn't do it if
I was the Miami Heat, knowing that we are fairly
successful in what we're doing right now, I think that's
a risk that you'd rather take with the devil that
you know again that Tyler Heroes breaking solid, He's a
solid player, he's still young. I wouldn't risk it.

Speaker 4 (53:57):
Yeah, I actually agree with you here. Heroes tract is
a little bit cheaper, it's one year shorter, and he's
a much better shooter, which I think is something that
the Heat need. They're similar ages. I think there's like
six months difference between the two of them. And it
seems to me that hero at the very least is
maintaining his status as a player, whereas jaw has been

(54:17):
declining for the past couple of years, and the athleticism
piece is a big part of it right, Like, I
think Hero is going to be able to continue to
shoot threes and shoot off the dribble and Jaw is
being forced to shoot off the dribble at this point
in his career. And it's not exactly coming around. But
if you're making the Devil's advocate case, last fifteen games
for the Heat, they're thirteenth in offense, eleventh in defense,

(54:39):
thirteenth in net rating. So just a fine good team. Yeah,
they're only five and eight this season against teams that
are five hundred or better. So to me, it seems
like the Heat could use a boost. Like the Eastern
Conference feels very wide open. Pistons have played great, Nicks
are really rounding into form, but neither of those teams

(54:59):
feels unbeatable to me. So I guess you know side
updown question for you here? Up or down? Should the
Heat be buyers at the deadline?

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Well, I think they should be buyers. Yeah, it's all
about the package and what they're getting back. I think
right here, right now, like you said about their last
thirteen games, Tyler has only played five games this season,
so that kind of goes against the argument that, oh,
he plays more than John Ramp but he does. Literally,
we just haven't seen the best of him quite this season,
although he's come in and played really well. But he

(55:29):
has to adapt and play with them. But I think
you look up and down the roster, they've got tradable
contracts that they could assemble together. You know, going back
to the Damian Lillard rumors when he was in Portland.
They've always been looking. They're always looking, So I think, yes,
they need to get better. Eric Spolscher creating that offense

(55:49):
that is drivekick, drivekick, everybody move, everybody run. That's optimizing
what they are right here right now. But we know
in the playoffs they ain't good enough to really go
extremely deep. So yeah, I think they should. If they
could get somebody.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
It looks like they could make a move. They could
be a top four team, I think in the East
and right now, if you're a top four team, like
you're taking your chances. I think if your top four
of these like, maybe we can make something happen in
the playoffs the bracket breaks correctly, that's the time. It's
the time, feels like the year.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Although you know, we just talked to doctor Jim Borcher's
about players coming back and the more I hear about
Jason Tatum, the more I'm starting to buy that he's
coming back and that's a team that could be freaking awesome.
I know we talked about it yesterday. I know Bill
Simmons has said I've never felt better about Jason Tatum
coming back. I get it. But at the same time,
you're right, this is a great year if you're in

(56:40):
the Eastern Conference. To put it all together, Piston's knicks
Celtics are the ones at the top, but the Magic
are knocking and then yeah, you're hoping if you're like
a Miami Heat team that somebody becomes available. No disrespect
to the Cavs, but those are the teams. Yeah right now.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
A lot of teams they could be the team to
lose to the Thunder in the final. A lot of
teams out there over the athletic are main man Chill
will Gillery wrote that the Pelicans have not yet engaged
in any trade discussions for Zion Williamson, but they might
trade either Herb Jones and or Trey Murphy if some
team wows them with an offer. So tast are you

(57:18):
up or down on the Pels trading Herb or.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Trey I'm pretty down. I think they've got better options
to trade. Jantay Murray is the guy who stands out
to me speaking of injuries. He's got to come back.
He can, and he will come back in January. But
he's just older, and it's a better situation to deal
him because at his age at twenty nine, he doesn't

(57:42):
fit in with this new Derek Queen led team at all.
And I would be reluctant to trade either Trey Murphy
or Herb Jones because they've got such good deals. Trey
Murphy's only twenty five, he's got a great contract through
twenty nine. And Jones he's a little older, and so
that's why I'm kind of down. If there's anyone to trade,

(58:03):
it would be him, I think at twenty seven, but
his deal is so good till twenty thirty. I wouldn't
want to deal either of them. I understand that they
probably want to get a pick back in the twenty
sixth draft to help out Queen and Fierce. There's no doubt.
There's no doubt, So I think Dumars and Troy Weavers
should be looking. But those two guys are so they
just fit contracts aren't crazy. Herb Jones is such a

(58:26):
great locker room guy. He would be the one I'd
think about at this point. But it all depends what's
coming back for them. And as far as a twenty
twenty six draft pick, it's got to be a good one.
Can't just be herey first round pick. It doesn't mean
that's going to be a good pick. It could mean
it's protected to some degree.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
Yeah, and that means it's probably unlikely that it's going
to happen because a team that's going to have a
good first round draft pick, it's probably not making a
move for either Herb Jones or trade Murphy. They both
feel kind of like finishing pieces right to me. But
that's why the Pelicans are in a really tough spot
because they don't have their twenty six pick. As everybody knows,
they also have a pick swap with the Hawks next

(59:07):
season twenty twenty seven thanks to the Dejonte Murray trade.
If I'm not mistaken, New Orleans gets the worst pick
between the Hawks and the Pelicans, but thankfully for them,
this one is protected one through four, so they might
just have to eat the twenty six pick. That thing
is long gone they'll be drafting at the end of
the first round, getting likely the Hawks pick this coming draft,

(59:32):
and then hopefully in twenty seven they stay bottomed out
and actually hit a top four pick and get to
keep their own pick, because that would be bad to lose,
like back to back top five picks when you're trying
to build around Fears and Queen. The other thing is
that Trey Murphy and Herb Jones, their skill sets are
kind of perfect around Fears in Queen being long wings,

(59:53):
Herb more defensively tilted, Tray more of an offensively tilted guy.
You see them working with both Fears and Queen, and
those are spots that the Pelicans need to address and
can help the development of their two rookies this season.
But it's got to be a while. It's with an offer,
is the way will put it. And I think that

(01:00:13):
that's exactly right. If somebody comes through with the player
that they really like, or if somebody comes through with
a really juicy pick, then maybe you can make the
move because there is a bit of an age difference,
you know, five to seven years, depending on whether it's
Trey or Herb, between the two young guys that at
least helps you get back on the right track from

(01:00:33):
a rebuilding standpoint. I was also surprised to see that
Will had Jordan Poole and Dejonte Murray as trade candidates.
I think it offered anything. Ship those guys out. Literally
anything second round pick would be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
There's got to be a team out there that's good.
But isn't just given their own pick, that's given somebody
else's team out there. Is somebody else's pick. I should
say that could be an extremely good one because, as
you said, you're a good team and you want one
of these finishing pieces as somebody like, you know, one
of the herbs or the trays. But is it the Murray?

(01:01:12):
I mean you'd have to go see him play number one. Yeah,
And it's just too early in slop season to know
which picks every team has. But I I'm already looking.
There's got to be again, a good team that's got
a really good pick out there. And I'm not talking
to Okay, see what the Clippers pick, because I don't
think that that ain't going to happen. That's that would
be ridiculous. But the Pelicans right here, right now, after

(01:01:37):
giving away the twenty twenty six pick. It would just
be weird to get rid of any young, good player
on a good contract. But I could see the Jehntey
Murray the Pool one. You don't think they'd want a
redo for that deal. That's not optimal A mirror four
months ago.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
As well, right on his contract. I'm dumb man. I
still think can be good in the right spot, but
he needs to be in the right spot. He actually
seems to have matured a little bit from like a
leadership standpoint. He seems well liked on the Pelicans, and
you know, maybe that's because he's not doing anything ridiculous
on the court, because he's mostly just making faces on

(01:02:17):
the sideline. But I mean those guys, neither Murray nor
Pool seem to be long term pieces for the Pelicans.
So if there's a you know, a fifth or sixth
man that you like and somebody's willing to throw it in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Sure, Yeah. Yeah. The Pool thing a little reluctant to
make the move.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
You don't want to jump in the pool.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
It seems like every year he's good last year, not
every year last year. In this year, his coach likes
him and says he's good. Brian Keve liked him exactly.
He's good for the Wizards last year after he benched
his ass and then he's like, oh yeah, he's good
off the bench exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
The less pool you need, the better wear cool clothes.
Every once in a while he'll wear a wizard robe
and he'll talk about his cats. That's just what Jordan
Poole does.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
He looks cool compared to Brian Keith, that's for sure.
I agree. I can't believe I just did a coach dirty.
Why am I player to a first.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Time coach in Brian Keith and somehow he looks like
he's sixty years yea, that's a wild thing to be.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
And they threw in Kevon Looney will Guilery throw in
Kevon Looney as a rumor, which, yeah, any team would
want him? Is Kevon Looney. I thought he'd have a
positive effect on Zion Williamson. I still think maybe if
Kevin Looney was healthy to start to see and he
literally wasn't playing I things would be different. But I
bought into the Zion. I bought into what Zion was
saying about two Mars Weaver his own personal coach that

(01:03:49):
helped him out last year. And Kevon Looney. But I
was wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:03:52):
You are like Charlie Brown with the football and Joe
Dumars is Lucy holding it just Yankee in away from
you time after time. First it was the All Star
Game that Williams.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Don't blame Joe Dumars for the All Star Game. Joe
for Zion, sure, uh for the Pelicans. Don't blame him
for the All Star Game. Blame Adam.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
That one's on Adam.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Blame mister Beast, Blame Kevin Hart. They screwed up. I
was literally thinking about Joe Dumars and what he said
last year before before the All Star Game. Yeah, we
interviewed him and he's I asked him, is there going
to be gaps between these games where it's just too long?
And he said they they gotta take care of He

(01:04:35):
didn't know, he didn't know. He just said that. Obviously,
he wasn't dealing with that. That wasn't his part of
his dominion. He just was coming on to say, I
believe in it, and I still believe in Joe for
believing in the All Star Game. It ain't dead. But
he just didn't know about it. So anyway, I gotta,
we gotta grab that clip and I'm just gonna I'm

(01:04:58):
gonna make some sort of video hoping that we don't
get lied to again. They can't screw up again. They
can't say, hey, mister Beats, come on the court for
fifteen minutes. Oh, Kevin Hart, come come talk for fifteen minutes.
Hey TNT. You're done, but you're not done. But you're done,
so you know, give us a goodbye. That can't happen again.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
I can't happen again, but it's gonna happen. Another guy,
Joe dumar is believed in whoa Boy? Whoa Big Any Boy?
NBA Line of the Night, brought to you today by
Sammy J ninety three? What said Hi in the stream
team with a four ninety nine super chat? So you

(01:05:38):
get to sponsor who boy for today?

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
I can't believe that I didn't see a four ninety
nine or congrats.

Speaker 4 (01:05:44):
Yeah, got a good deal compared to the last one.
That's true. You never know. That's the only way to
sponsor who boy hop in the super chats on the
stream team. Last night's whoa Boy goes to Derreck Queen
Big Boy grilling on the roof thirty three points, ten rebounds,
ten assists four blocks for Derek Queen and the loss

(01:06:04):
does not matter when eleven of fifteen from the field
eleven of thirteen at the pre throw line did have
four turnovers, but who cares ten assists, became the eighth
player since blocks have been recorded with a thirty three
ten and ten plus four blocks, and only the fifth
player ever with a thirty point triple double before turning

(01:06:25):
twenty one years old. You know the other guys. You
can get three of them easily.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Luca yep, Lebron yep.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Three before twenty.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
One pretty recent, pretty recent. Um, we haven't seen this
man play for a while, but uh, apparently he's practicing again.
Victor Victor wehmbin Yama the last guy. You probably won't
get it dearon Fox. So pretty cool stuff from Derek Queen.

(01:06:55):
They call him DQ on the broadcast, which reminds me
of Dairy Queen of course, and his name is Derek Queen. Yep,
So I think we should call him the ice Cream Man.
Ice Cream Man is coming. They could play it in
New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
It would sound awesome, Yes Queen, I saw that going
around yesterday. Yes, Dairy Queen, for sure. It's good he's good.

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Yeah, he looked awesome last night sating the table. He
had so many wild like reverse finishes, had one where
he thought he got foul, just chucked it over his
head and you know, he just made the same layup
like three possessions earlier, so that one went in as well.
Made him in the fourth quarter, throws a back door pass,
throws an alleyup. This guy does it all.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
He's so good. Yeah, even if he Joe was cooking
on that one, they did well.

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
They did well on that one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Should they have picked him with their first pick? All right,
now I'm getting speculative. There's no need to do that
to mister fears they cooked there. Sometimes he gives away
on the other end, for sure, yes he does, but
who cares. Just build around him if you're a Pelicans fan,
at least you can watch some incredible stuff that he does.
As you just said, those are that's some good company

(01:08:07):
for a young player who didn't start the year as
a starter player. It's coming off the bench.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
So yeah, I think it was Fast Break Breakfast that
had the eighth player with the block the thirty three, ten,
ten and four line, and it was like all Hall
of famers, And I don't know if Alvin Adams is
a Hall of Famer. I'll have to ask my dad
about that one. The only guy who talks about Alvin Adams.
But I know Derek Queen is good. But wouldn't you
rather have Noah Seaney, A oh, two other guys who
did good? Me and you tass Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
Last night in the Pick Him, we had the Suns
plus ten and a half points and they money lined them.
That's a win for us, a loss for skeets You
don't skeets four and two. I am two and four.
What's tonight's game?

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Well, it was definitely easy to pick the Raptors and
the Knicks in the NBA Cup, but Skeetson wanted he
was worried about a lot of having to pick the Raptors.
The line is getting bigger there. The Knicks now favored
by four and a half because people are on the Knicks.
So I went with the other one, this one the

(01:09:08):
Battle of Florida in Orlando, Miami visiting. It's basically a
pickham because the Magic are favored by one and a half.
JD with the NBA Cup here on the ground, looking Solomon,
I was Oh you just you're you got that Heat logo,
I say, looking good. It's got a little flair anyway,

(01:09:29):
these ones. Oh so it's all, oh yeah, it looks great.
I will say. I was driving here in Georgia yesterday.
I see a license plate from Florida that's got the
Miami Heat logo on it. It wasn't the regular standard logo.
It was the Miami Vice logo on the license plate.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
It was cool. It was cool scene anyway, I got
the magic. You guys do have the Miami Vice Heat
U N skeets.

Speaker 4 (01:09:55):
Yeah, you're right. They probably Maybe they'll be vised up
tonight since it's a Cup game. I just think some
things to figure out for Orlando with Franz going down
pollow assuming a bigger rule.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
I'm telling you, as soon as as mc bain gets mad,
the team performs afterwards. After the spike and og Ananobi
with that ball, who.

Speaker 4 (01:10:17):
Do you think he's most likely to fight on the
Miami Heat.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Oh, the Miami Heat.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
I think a lot of good guys.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Yeah, super good guys. Who's the mean guy?

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
I mean, Davion Mitchell likes to start up?

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Yeah, oh you mentioned him and he was laughing when
Myron Gardner a new guy alert, Yeah deep cut on
the Miami Heat bench was talking crap to Klay Thompson.
We showed him in the Worst of the Week this
past week. So if he fights, anybody would probably be
Myron Gardner. If he's there, I don't even know if
you'd be there, but.

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
Watch your back, Myron. H you mentioned it. Four and
a half point favorites the Knicks over the Raptors, right now, what.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
You got, I'm taking Toronto? Yeah, I'll I'll be watching
it on playback tonight. Yeah, I got to. This is
the NBA Cup.

Speaker 4 (01:11:06):
It's the NBA Cup. Tesk will be chatting alive on
playback tonight. Visually, I'm gonna be seeing that game. And
he was gonna be going head to head with Skeets.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Oh my goodness, Yeah, he'll be.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
He'll be.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
He'll be chying it up on substack. I gotta go
on playback because some sad news. Playback will be shut
down this Friday. Yeah, now will it be back? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
They're going to be purchased, but they're in the process
of being sold, so yeah, it's a sad day. You're
gonna pour one out for playback, but also substack will
be happening today multiple channels. No Dunk's enjoying the NBA Cup.
I had to back to back games as they've given

(01:11:52):
each game some space. They basically start back to back
when we started earlier. In my really early starts tonight
six and then eight thirty easterns six and eight thirty. Yeah, wow,
sound you don't sound happy about that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:07):
That's just unusual to start games at that hour of
the day. It surely is just very early six o'clock.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Things have changed.

Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
Things have changed, including the schedule. The schedule has changed.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Just the main thing that I noticed.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
I saw the car ahead of me yesterday hu uh
driving home from here. Had the license plate one number
ahead of me. How weird is that exact same first
six digits and then the last number was in eight
narses a nine.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
So why do you think that happened?

Speaker 4 (01:12:36):
I don't know. I don't think you should be I
don't think you should ever encounter the license plate that's right.
Next year. It felt dangerous to me. They're tracking us somehow.
What are they running here?

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Yeah? Yeah, I immediately think, wow, we ordered ours a
second apart, right at the exact same time. Is that
what happens? Is that how it works? Can't wait to
find out?

Speaker 4 (01:12:58):
Did we get our cars the same day?

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Can't wait to find We're going to have another doc
doctor license plates on to explain how it all works tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (01:13:08):
That is cool doctor license plates. Tune in tomorrow. We
got doctor license plates coming on.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Urban planning, everything that happens around cities. Very interesting stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:13:21):
Clipper bros. You heard it here first. Have a great time,
turn off, Love you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Awesome, thanks for joining us. Join us tomorrow. It is
going to be a pack show. We are going to
learn about license plates on the back of cars, on
the front of cars, because that whole thing.

Speaker 4 (01:13:38):
Some states do it, some don't.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Canada you got front plates, you can they got front plates,
but now you can just renew.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
They don't.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
They don't. They don't care about the renew stickers on
a license plate. They literally doesn't matter, you know, like.

Speaker 4 (01:13:55):
Yeah, you gotta do your license plate renil every year.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Yeah, but they don't care. You have to do it manually,
but they don't care if the stickers on there do
not care. Does you see the little stickers on there
that say, like five years ago you don't get pulled over.

Speaker 4 (01:14:07):
You just want to save this for doctor license.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Yea, hopefully, he joins who she joins.

Speaker 4 (01:14:13):
Come on, doc, Come on doc. Embrace the blades people,

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