June 17, 2025 • 32 mins
There’s a wild stat that’s floated around basketball circles for a long time: A 7-foot (or taller) American man has a 17% likelihood of being an NBA player. This week, we try to find out if this statistic holds true, and along the way we learn how extremely rare it is to be so tall, why the number of seven-footers in the league saw a dip, and… the case for socialized medicine?
Our guests this week are Barry Bogin, Björn Quanjer, Guillaume Lettre, Stereogum’s Tom Breihan, and The F5’s Owen Phillips.
Check out Owen’s basketball newsletter, The F5: https://thef5.substack.com/
Tom Breihan, “On Being a Giant” & his book: The Number Ones
For more, please subscribe to our newsletter www.nosuchthing.show
Have a question you want us to tackle? Email us: mannynoahdevan@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Manny, I'm Noah.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is and this is no such thing the show
where we settle ardum arguments and yours by actually doing
the research. This week, maybe we don't appreciate seven footers enough.
And also the case for universal health care.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'll explain.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
No, there's no no such thing, no such thing, no
such thank.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Thank such thank so. We're in the midst of NBA Finals.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Boys, who's playing again?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
The Indiana Pacers? Okay, who I will die for? Damn,
no one's ever said that's art in history.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Just you know, I've got twenty bucks on the line
and uh Oklahoma City Thunder. Okay, we're heavily favored until well,
we'll see. There's a stat that's floated around in basketball circles,
first in a twenty eleven sports Strated article by Pablo Torre,
and it also appears in David Epstein's book The Sports Gene.
The stat says that an American man between age twenty
(01:09):
and forty who is seven feet tall or more has
a seventeen percent probability of being in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Seventeen percent. Yeah, oh my god. Thoughts on that that's huge.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
That's crazy to me that you're in not even like.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
It's not like you should be. It's not like you
could be.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
It's not that you're playing basketball at a high level
that you a seventeen percent chance of being in the
NBA by just your height. Yeah, no other attributes about you.
You can be. You know, we're not saying athletic people
who are playing basketball who are seven feet tall. Just
like seven feet tall period, seventeen percent.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
That's kind of my takeaway.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's like, all right, yeah, no athletic ability necessarily, you're
just tall. You can just walk in there essentially if
you want. But then, you know, the thought about it,
it's like, I don't know if I've ever even met
a seven foot person, Like who's the tallest person? You know? Oh,
that's a like realistically, because then I was I was
going through I'm thinking of people. I'm like, Okay, this
person's brother, this this guy, like people who I know
(02:06):
as being like their main attribute in my mind is
being tall. And then I'm like, yeah, they're probably six',
five which is really, tall but, yeah not even close to.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Side, No, YEAH i definitely don't know any seven. FOOTERS
i think probably the tallest PERSON i know would be
probably six, four six.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Five it is such an insane height when you think about.
IT i have a photo of myself next To Lebron.
James oh, yeah and obviously he's like twice my, size
but he's like six' nine, i think so a seven
foot person is like visibly substantially Taller.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Than, lebron yeah like.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Seven insane so what's crazy to me about this STAT
is i was trying to think about what other sport
could you have one attribute that you would, Say this
if you just have, this attribute you would be we'll say. Ten,
percent yeah you know you're in. A, league yeah if
you just, have this you know you're a certain amount,
(03:06):
of pounds, your height even like. ARM length i don't
know what are other attributes.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
That's so, skill based but it's interesting that this is
kind of the.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Outlier, there YEAH and i think it's largely just because
the receptacle that you need to score in is, high
up and like in other sports that's not the case
the goal or.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Whatever is but the same level as.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Like track right you're running, a distance, you, think oh, having,
legs yeah gives you. An advantage but as we know,
in track just being tall doesn't mean.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
You're, faster yeah you can only have legs so, tall
yep before your camp and.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Can you move how quickly can you?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Move, those yeah you be able to.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
USE them i know in soccer it used to be,
the case at least at THE levels i, was playing
like a smaller person had, an advantage just like weaving. Through,
traffic essentially if you, were taller you're a little clunkier
or they've just made you.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Goal controversial but what about.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
A, Horse, jockey oh being SMALL because i don't KNOW what,
i mean it's not but you wouldn't say all people between,
these ages, you know between five three and whatever, A.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Jockeys yeah if you're four four ten to, five, three
man you're probably gonna.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Be a seventeen percent chance you're GONNA be i guess
that's part of, it, Too right it's like it's not just,
the attribute it's the attribute plus being in the, like,
yeah yeah it's, like okay and this is the thing we.
All know oh, you see somebody told you. Play basketball
it's like, so dumb but everyone. Does it and it's
like there's no other, you know one looks at like
a short person and it's like you should be. A
(04:39):
jockey you know people are recruiting spy if you. Said,
that yeah but it's, you know every tall person. Must,
play yeah the amount of.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Tall people i've told That the lakers, need THEM but
i just see them around At.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
The, mars yeah you've never seen him.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Play, basketball yeah they just need. TO la i have
a Picture, with lebron so just send him this picture
and tell him you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Know me.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Also in the, News lately tinder is introducing a.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Height.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Filter Yeah does hinge?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
HAVE it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I don't i don't think any. Of them i'm a
singing doesn't. Have it but it's part of the your Profile, how,
yeah Yeah but tinder. Has that oh, They DO like,
i thought you have to put it in. Your, bio,
Well listen i'm not.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
In there let me. Be, CLEAR yeah i haven't used
that some years FROM what. I recall just to be
clear FROM what, i recall damn years and years Ago
that hinge had it built into.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Your profile you had to, List. It, hinges Yeah it.
TINDER whatever i think you can turn it On.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
On tinder, but yeah it is one of. Those things it's, Not,
necessary HINGE like i think it's required.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Along with the seven.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
FOOT thing i think many people don't know what six.
Foot is, oh yeah that's why people think six foot is.
Very attractive they don't realize maybe five seven is. Really,
attractive actually REMEMBER when i came out to you.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
AS short i, Do, remember.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Well it was a.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
DEVASTATING day.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
I definitely i feel very strongly that people don't know
what six feet is when they're looking. In irl like
if you tell them women on dating Apps who i've
been on dates with, years ago THEY thought i was
like over. Six, FEET well i think it's part of
looking AT and i wish that, was true but.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
It's not some people have taller short. Energy, too well
there's a lot of.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Proportion, too, yes YES so i think that explained why
YOU thought i was TALLER than.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I was i didn't think you.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
WERE taller i have skinny LITTLE that i thought you.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
WERE tall i just thought you were a. Normal height.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
We might need to, Cancel THIS.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So i really wanted to fact check the stat updated
to current day league status as BEST as. I can
i want to know how many seven footers there are
in the world and find out exactly how advantageous that
extreme height is in, The, league like is someone who's
seven feet that much more valuable than someone who's just, Six'
ten and.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I want to talk to a seven footer whether or
not they're. In the, league yeah right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
We are back so we're going to try to find
out if that original statu is True that an american
man aged twenty to forty who's seven feet tall has
a seventeen percent probability of BEING. In the NBA but
first i wanted to find out how many seven footers
exist in, the world total and the data was surprisingly
hard to come by, on MY own so i reached
out to a few researchers who have looked into heights.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
IN various Ways I.
Speaker 7 (07:53):
AM barry bogan i, am an anthropologist and my special
interest is human physical growth and development, and, how, social
economic political and emotional factors influence the way children grow
and adults. Grow as well everybody is just always been amazingly.
(08:14):
FASCINATED with height i have A book Called Patterns, of
HUMAN growth and i Cite work by chinese matchmakers going
back centuries and height was sometimes the most important factor
in making. A successful match almost all societies are patriarchies
that the men want. To be dominant whether they are
(08:36):
or not. Is another question but they want, to be
dominant and height is a social signal of physical. Signal
of dominance out of all the presidents they've ever Been In,
the united states only four were shorter than their challengers,
in the elections and the ones who win are the
ones who. Seem more successful when, you, ask people well
(08:57):
how told you you, think they are people always over.
Estimate Their height elon musk's height has probably increased in
people's estimation as he has gone from just rich to
the most wealthy person. In THE universe if i introduce you,
as you know some guy who, has a, podcast YOU
know or i introduce, you, as Professor Doctor a, nobel
(09:19):
prize WINNER and then i ask people? What's your height
your height goes up as your. Status goes up even
if they've met you and shaken, hands with you they'll
still estimate your height based on their perceived notion of.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Your social status, first of all why is she assuming
that a podcaster is? A, lower, cast OKAY respected.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
And i was pretty disgusting.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
WHAT he said i assume all podcasters are at least
five ten.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
At least starting my, second thing, is you know we
talk a lot about. The presidential, races you know we've
never had. A. Woman president yeah has anyone ever brought
up the fact that women are typically shorten than men ever?
Thought about that. No one is i'm the first. Person
right now how did?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You mention. It they are another Researcher, From The netherlands
bjorn he mentioned that height is an indicator of other factors.
Speaker 8 (10:11):
In a society so for many people it's a it's
a sort, of nice gimmick and it's you see a
lot in the in the media and, in the press
like this country has become total and they dot chart
of tolest. In the world, but for me it's an
indicator of living standards. Of a population so the average
height and especially changes in average height tell us how a.
(10:32):
Population is doing height is. Basically two things on, the one,
hand it's nutrition so, your nutritional intake and on, the
other hand it's claims on energy that you cannot. Use
to grow so if there's a lot of, claims on,
energy for example because there's a lot, of child illnesses
you live in, a cramped space you live in a,
(10:53):
very polluted area then. You grow shorter if there's not enough,
nutrition these things then also you will not grow as
tall as you're capable, of doing so it's sort of
fulfilling your genetic potential and in a way that enables
us to track living. Standards over time and So, for
(11:14):
the dutch the living standards has gone Up. In the
dutch by eighteen fifty were ranked in The middle of
europe and now they are the tallest. In the world
and that Is because the dutch have, become much healthier
have become a. Very equal society so health is, available
to everyone but also nutrition is, available to everyone and
(11:35):
basically the combination of these two Things helped the dutch.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
TO grow taller a few things there, That stood out
so obviously genetics play a big, part in it but
it's also about fulfilling that kind of maximum potential that
you get through more comfortable lifestyles, and you. Know better
nutrition these sorts of things very e gould the same
thing as, far as like so much is just based
on kind.
Speaker 7 (11:57):
Of ENERGY use when i grew up as an anthropology
the main factor people considered was. Genetics and diet there's
all kinds of crazy ideas and good. Ideas about that
but in The last decade i've been working with some
Colleagues here in europe And In, the united states and we've, found, that,
social economic political and emotional factors are as important or
(12:22):
more important than. Genetics are, diet you know think about
reving the engine of a high performance car. All the
time you just keep your foot on the accelerator. All
the time how long is the engine? Going to last
chronic stress from constant, threat of, violence constant inequality constantly
worrying about where you're going to get enough money. To
(12:43):
buy food that's like reving your body's engine. All the
time eventually. It gives out we've known for a long
long time and the classic studies that show if you,
stress kids out even if you, feed them well they've
got all. Kinds of problems that was shown in a
Classic Just after, world war two very Famous and lovely
(13:05):
British Nutritionist. Named elsie widowsin.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So the study went like this in, nineteen forty six
they gave one, orphanage extra biscuits oranges and milk. With
their meals a second orphanage stuck to the normal meal.
Plan no supplements, after six months the kids at the
orphanage without the extra.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Food grew taller, that seemed odd so.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
They switched orphanages the first orphanage with, the extra food
now use the, normal meal plan and the second orphanage,
got the extras and. It happened again the orphanage that
was eating.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Less. Grew Taller Why.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
What elsie widowson discovered was that the head matron disciplined
the children. At meal time, in other words if, you, were,
bad right, okay no way you're, a bad boy she'd
call you up to the front and she would cane
you in front of all. The other children then they
would serve the meal that. Stops you, digestion.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And she, the mean matron happened to switch orphanages right
when they switched the meal protocol, For the study so
she was at the first one with the extra food and,
the extra beatings and then she switched to. The other
one so eventually it was realized that if, kids were
stressed they didn't.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Grow as tall.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Stress and those sorts of things can really impede even
if you're, getting that stuff and like, if your, parents
you know your parents are really, tall and whatever but
you're just not going to ever make it just, based
on that.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Just, based on, stress yeah yeah or being in a
situation or you. Don't, FEEL secure well.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
I have a personal Experience with tall Dutch people because
MEA's dad is dutch and her brother In, law is
dutch and they are both tall, a to.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Hell NICE lives so i.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Can confirm no Stress, even.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Good yeah got good safety.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Nets over, there well yeah so Then sorry about that's
the other big thing that both of them brought up
whenever they do these surveys of like, the happiest countries they're,
the taller countries and they're countries that, have gotten taller,
and those, countries you know many Of, them in, scandinavia
et cetera have pretty good healthcare, systems, versus, like okay
well LIKE, in the, us for example some people are
(15:21):
getting great healthcare and growing, and getting taller so certain
population and then.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Others are not.
Speaker 7 (15:29):
The AVERAGE in the us is like five ten and a,
half for men But for none hispanic white that's what
this is what The Government, calls European americans, none hispanic
white that goes up about not, even an inch so maybe.
Five foot eleven But for non hispanic black that is
(15:50):
the average about five foot ten. And a half so
one Average In. The United states european americans are a
little Bit Taller, than african americans and the reason for
that is because of the discrimination and inequality that Exists In.
The united states and that's, not you know me just
(16:11):
coming up with that off the top. Of my head
there are, hundreds, of scientific medical sociological research articles. THAT
support this.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I wanted to know how much of height is based
on genes versus these other let's call. Them environmental factors.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So that's that's.
Speaker 9 (16:27):
A Difficult question so i'll tell you what we know
from the genetics and then go into. Like Specific cases.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's chiomelett he's a professor Of genetics At. University of
montreal so.
Speaker 9 (16:37):
If we look in a population again like you KNOW
in The us, and canada anymore and we look at the,
distribution of height the variation across the population is largely.
Controlled by genetics so, it's not nutrition it's, not the.
Environment it's genetics it's what. We call irritability it gives
you a sense of how genetically control. That variation is
(17:00):
and you know that's. True for height it's true also
for a, disease like schizophrenia which is largely. Dictated by
genetics so now. About your question it's true that if
you have a child that, doesn't eat anything he or
she will not reach is, her, Full potential right so
so nutrition, has an impact but globally in the population.
(17:21):
It's it's minimal it's different than condition, likes say obesity,
where you know the environment has a much larger impact
on the variation. Within the population so height is very genetic.
In that sense, to.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Sum up it's roughly eighty percent genes versus twenty percent
other factors when looking at height. Across a population so
how rare exactly? Is seven feet The answer extremely if
the average HEIGHT in the us for a man is
sixty nine, point three inches which is about five foot ten,
and a half a man who is six' two is
(17:55):
taller than ninety, Five percent of others so beyond that. It's,
really slim page plus many extremely tall people, suffer from
growth disorders which won't factor into the standard distribution. From
a population sample so the best estimates shows something like
twenty six hundred to three thousand seven footers.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
In the entire world.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So to, kind of sum up it's unclear exactly how
many seven, footers there are worldwide but, we have an
estimate and that kind of number, of twenty eight, hundred
give or, take is somewhat accurate or at least these
guys kind of signed off on we can work with. That,
with an asterisk okay so. Let's hold onto. That we'll
revisit later HOW accurate the actual?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Nba?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Seven footer, STATUS okay but yeah i thought this is
all really interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And, made ME you know now, i support you. Know
single payer healthcare finally.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You, DID it before yeah, i Was border, line, but i'm,
like well YOU know if maybe i could have been,
taller because?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Of that why, NOT but next up i wanted to
get some.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Intel from a perspective so if you're a team lucky
enough to, nab a seven footer does that actually make a.
Difference on the, court but before, THAT after much searching
i was able to have a quick chat with. AN,
actual seven footer whoa he's, not a basketball player but.
He's a music writer h. Let's, take a listen Hi My.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Name is tom brian. I'm a music writer i'm The Senior.
Editor FOR stereo GUM and i thought i. WAS seven
feet tall i might, be A little shorter but. I'M
somewhere around there I played basketball when. I was a
kid i played, up THROUGH high school and. I was
not good, i was, a real real clumsy like. WAF
of a kid i, was LIKE dangerously, skinny AND i.
(19:48):
TRIED but i don't i, didn't TRY that HARD and
i never i never loved. IT as a kid i
like it a lot. More as an.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Adult how often?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Are? You asked.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
That oh every DAY the last time i had a
teacher TALLER than me was i want. To say fifth
grade it. Might be fourth grade my dad was six
six and my, mom WAS six two and i was.
Beyond them really quickly i'm the one Of the tallest.
People i've ever.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Met what are kind of the best things you would?
SAY about being tall.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
I like.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Being remembered that's nice it. Can be tricky sometimes it's
one of, those THINGS where like if, i meet somebody
once THEY'LL remember me and i. Might not remember, them
like that said that's. A pretty common thing, but it's,
nice to you know walk into a. Room and stand
OUT it's not something. I take for granted being able
to see it. SHOWS is really nice i see a,
(20:42):
lot of live music and, PEOPLE who, are taller i
understand are. Typically considered more attractive we get. Paid more like,
that on and. On down the, list that's ALL nice
it's it's i can't say any of that's a. Real
drawback for me but fitting, In cars is hard fitting.
In planes is possible shopping.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
For.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Clothes is difficult amazon You can shop on amazon by
shoe size and they just grade. OUT the size twenty
i can't look. For TAS twenty anymore like i could
almost have A panic attack anytime i, get ON an
airplane and i, almost never DO it, but when i
do those flight, attendants are usually nice and they'll usually
try to find me a spot in THE eggsit row
(21:21):
if i wasn't able. To get, one beforehand you know people.
Are understanding about it they, know that that sucks. But
it really sucks even the most comfortable airplane. SEAT is
it's rough i DO a thing where i pretty much
brace my knees against the seat, in front of me
and if anybody even, TRIES to lean, back I just
push like i just wedge myself in to make. It
(21:44):
So they can't. AND i'm not sorry i think anything
that makes a person different can make that person. Like
PARALYZINGLY self conscious and i think, AS a younger person
i was that way about my height at. IS a
certain point i, think to regular, people it's probably like
what you're complaining because you, got too much, money or something,
Like oh my. God i'm SO handsome how do i
(22:06):
get out of. Bed looking this good everybody's life is
enthralled to things. That they can't control and this IS
a thing that i didn't do shit. To get this
tall it's just something. That happened to me the thing
that people don't necessarily know about people this tall is
that we feel kind of, weird about, it too you
know like it's like it's just like it's always a
(22:27):
constant negotiation of like how do we deal with the
fact that it's the first thing that anyone is ever
going to notice about you when. You walk into it.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
What do you think about hearing, from the tall.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
COMMUNITY it's really interesting i am one of the people
he was talking ABOUT at first, where, i was like
oh you're too tall in, a break but yeah clearly
sounds like a huge obstacle. IN his everyday life i
had never even thought about how planes are not made.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
For people, THAT tall Oh.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah i mean I'm uncomfortable Ones and, i'm Saying i'm, sure,
like i'm.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
LIKE damn this sucks i can't wait to. Get out of,
here and you know at least my knees.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Can fit behind the seatot the thing he said about, Just, everyone,
REMEMBERS him yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I would totally remember that's. A seven foot guy it
makes me.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Think about what because if people who are seven feet
tall don't like, being seven feet tall it makes me
think about what, Is the ideal height like if, everyone
got to choose it obviously.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Wouldn't BE seven feet if.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I had to pick i would. Say, LIKE six feet
yeah i.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
THINK six six one i wouldn't want to go.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
MUCH higher than that i think once you're once you're,
getting past sixty three it's then it seems like it could,
probably be. A, burden you know yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Even it could become a part of your life. That, you,
don't care like yeah then everyone's like you're so tall all.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
The time while you're hitting extreme level, height where, it's
like oh yeah this, tall guy looks, good, not Like
damn bro, The lakers NEED you like what i DO
to people, When i see them.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
You don't want. You don't do.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
THAT that'd be horrible i don't want to BE as.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Annoying as i am so now we know how many. Seven,
footers there are well we know how unknowable, it Is
at least but i'm curious about how valuable they are.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
IN a basketball sense I Reach.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Out to owen PHILLIPS he writes the f five newsletter
and previously worked as a data ANALYTICS. Guy FOR the nick,
so i, asked Him first off how rare is a
true seven.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Footer in the league so if you.
Speaker 10 (24:25):
Look at, the data this year there were thirty nine
players that are listed at. Seven feet or taller there
are five HUNDRED and, seventy five nba players so you're
looking at about SEVEN percent of the nba population is,
Seven feet or.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Taller so thirty, nine the tallest, player By The. Way
is zach.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Edy you just finished he just finished his Rookie Year,
for the memphis grizzlies and he's. Listed at seven four wemby. Is.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
SEVEN to three. WOW i don't know i haven't looked at. Them,
SIDE by side wemby i. Guess, just looks lankier. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
HE'S so slimmy yeah i WANTED to if the nba
has been? Getting taller over time are we?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
At?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Peak seven footer now we.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Have to be right so he says it depends on
when you're, compared the number two because if you looked at,
like seventy years ago when, it was you know other people, in.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
The league whites it, was not, you. Know then yes definitely.
Speaker 10 (25:21):
So if you look at it over the COURSE, of
the entire nba there are far more seven footers today
than there. Were seventy years ago but we are not.
A peak, seven footer in fact in the late, nineties
early two thousands there were over fifty SEVEN, Footers in
the nba and you can THINK about all the nba
players that basically had Jobs just. To Guard schequil O'Neil.
Speaker 9 (25:41):
O neil puts, it on, the floor d stop then,
he put it down he.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Put the gold down.
Speaker 10 (25:48):
Every, team needed a player sometimes two players to Be,
able to guard shack and so you had a proliferation
all these SEVEN footers in the. Nba at the time
so right now we're actually at a not, quite in
the deer but we're kind of on the upswing after
it hollowing out in the mid auts, for a little
while and now we're starting to see a resurgent of
sorts of SEVEN. Footers In the nba.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
So owen explain that the play style back then was
much more focused on getting right, up to the basket
so obviously taller. Players benefit from that you can just
kind of stand there and. Just put it in, but
then more recently with the rise of, the three point
shot the value of.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
The seven footer decreased.
Speaker 10 (26:23):
Kind of Around The time when steph curry started to
revolutionize basketball with the three point shot And He Saw
the golden state warriors really excel By Playing, a center
draymond green who was six foot six. As their tallest
player you started to see the league kind of get
smaller across the board and the use of a seven
footer wasn't as valuable because they weren't capable of extending
(26:46):
their rage to the three point line, or defending these
smaller quicker players that were SUDDENLY.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
ALL over the nba i wanted to know how much
that extreme height actually, helps compared to say being. Only
Six to ten the ringer does like a regular top.
One hundred player rankings this is one data point to
kind of put. Some proof to This twelve of the
ringers top one hundred players are. Seven feet are taller
seven PERCENT of the total nba population is seven feet
so they are overrepresented there as far as being good
(27:12):
Players If, you TRUST bill simmons which i don't save,
that for, another podcast, but yeah that said, height is
one thing but wingspan is really what's important since you
don't block.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Shots, With, your dome yeah.
Speaker 10 (27:25):
Now is it better than being six'? Ten or being. Six'
eleven hard to say and i think one of the
things that's really important to remember is that height can
sometimes be a misnomer and what WE'RE actually more interested.
In the nba is their length so a player who's
six eleven with a seven foot seven wingspan is probably
more valuable than a seven foot player, with a seven
(27:46):
to five wingspan because how far you can reach is
more important, than how tall your. Head is if that makes.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Sense and, not to be the idiot here but can you?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Just?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Establish, what a.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Wingspan is yeah yeah oh yeah so wingspan would be
measured from measuring like if you put out your arms
like a completely extend plan style horizontally and measured from
the tip of your longest finger all. The way TO
the other one and usually i think for most people
the wingspan. Is, slightly longer than their height yet.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So that's a little bit about what it's like to BE.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Seven feet tall in the nba we're, going to take
one more break and then when we're back we'll find
out if that.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Original, stat is.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
At all accurate, okay welcome back so, so far here's
what we've learned how rare it, is to be seven
feet tall what, it's like to be really tall and
how SEVEN. Footers are used in the nba so now.
(28:48):
It's time to Do the math if you're an american
man between, the ages of twenty and forty and, you're
at least seven feet tall how likely are you? To
be a professional basketball player after Crunching some numbers, Using
the proprietary noah mathematics system my math CAREER ended up pre.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Calculus and I never. Took statistics here's.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
What i found any seven footer worldwide has a one
point four PERCENT. Likelihood of Being in the, nba for
an american seven footer that. Number jumps to about, Sixteen,
Percent my Team of researchers barry bjorn and guillome said
this is. More or, less in, the ballpark of course
they're professionals so they said this comes with an asterisk
(29:29):
considering the unknown quantity, of seven.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Photers with growth disorders et.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Cetera, so obviously the stat you know the original article
we were, talking about was from, twenty eleven. So obviously different. Players,
et cetera it's pretty close yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And, the guys backed it up yeah it was seventeen
in the original one.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
And this is.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Sixteen based on the updated it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So again, giving, that everything's a little, bit.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Yeah a little.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Bit.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
HERE we're in the park yeah i.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Think if you're basically, you know you're fourteen or whatever
and you know you're gonna you're that, TALL or you're
gonna be yeah i.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
THINK you can basically do it i also think now
it's different because they're looking, at, players younger and younger
now yeah where, we're highlight tapes of, you know, middle,
Schoolers now.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Right being like look i'll tell all this, middle.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Schooler is whereas, you know ten fifteen, years ago even
twenty years. Ago probably, was, not the case.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah yeah yeah like they would have to seek it out.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
A bit more exactly for sure now the world will get,
around if you had you know, a six, or eight
eighth grader yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah and like just videos of, him even just, standing,
there yep blocking one shot yep unathletically AND as we
know with the nba, in the past fifteen twenty years
like the pool of seven footers has just exponentialized because
they're going.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
International, now to do this sat YEAH.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
They've got all these like nba satellites basically where they can.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
Just.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
There's just a way bigger yeah and look look at
all the great.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Players, coming from, the happier countries yeah you know.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
So it's only, gonna there's, only gonna be.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
More.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
YOU know, Yeah to come yeah i hope well that
Means we.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Have, a HAPPIER world i've learned.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yea, so i hope you know yeah not ONLY for
the great entertainment, value i, get from, the sport but
yeah you know for. The, Social safety, Net And More.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Touch Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Touch thank No, Such Thing As Produced by Me Noah.
Friedman manny fidel and devin Joseph The theme music is
by many thanks to, All Of, Our Guests, This, Week Barry.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Bogan Bjorn Kwanyer.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Diomlett tom bryan, and Owen phillips what A crew and
i'm sorry if i. Said any of those names wrong
please subscribe. To You Our Newsletter at Www. Dot no
such thing dot show i'll be sharing links to some of,
the research discussed In the episode, As WELL as, owen's basketball.
Newsletter the f five and more please Don't, Forget to
follow us on, Apple spotify or wherever you listen share
(31:59):
it friend.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And leave a five star review.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
It really does help a lot and if you have a,
question you want us to tackle Please show us an email,
at manninoadevin at gmail dot com or. You can leave
us a VOICEMAIL the number is eight six o three.
Two five zero two eight six thanks so much for listening.
And we will be back soon
I'm Manny, I'm Noah.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is and this is no such thing the show
where we settle ardum arguments and yours by actually doing
the research. This week, maybe we don't appreciate seven footers enough.
And also the case for universal health care.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'll explain.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
No, there's no no such thing, no such thing, no
such thank.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Thank such thank so. We're in the midst of NBA Finals.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Boys, who's playing again?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
The Indiana Pacers? Okay, who I will die for? Damn,
no one's ever said that's art in history.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Just you know, I've got twenty bucks on the line
and uh Oklahoma City Thunder. Okay, we're heavily favored until well,
we'll see. There's a stat that's floated around in basketball circles,
first in a twenty eleven sports Strated article by Pablo Torre,
and it also appears in David Epstein's book The Sports Gene.
The stat says that an American man between age twenty
(01:09):
and forty who is seven feet tall or more has
a seventeen percent probability of being in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Seventeen percent. Yeah, oh my god. Thoughts on that that's huge.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
That's crazy to me that you're in not even like.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
It's not like you should be. It's not like you
could be.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
It's not that you're playing basketball at a high level
that you a seventeen percent chance of being in the
NBA by just your height. Yeah, no other attributes about you.
You can be. You know, we're not saying athletic people
who are playing basketball who are seven feet tall. Just
like seven feet tall period, seventeen percent.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
That's kind of my takeaway.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's like, all right, yeah, no athletic ability necessarily, you're
just tall. You can just walk in there essentially if
you want. But then, you know, the thought about it,
it's like, I don't know if I've ever even met
a seven foot person, Like who's the tallest person? You know? Oh,
that's a like realistically, because then I was I was
going through I'm thinking of people. I'm like, Okay, this
person's brother, this this guy, like people who I know
(02:06):
as being like their main attribute in my mind is
being tall. And then I'm like, yeah, they're probably six',
five which is really, tall but, yeah not even close to.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Side, No, YEAH i definitely don't know any seven. FOOTERS
i think probably the tallest PERSON i know would be
probably six, four six.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Five it is such an insane height when you think about.
IT i have a photo of myself next To Lebron.
James oh, yeah and obviously he's like twice my, size
but he's like six' nine, i think so a seven
foot person is like visibly substantially Taller.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Than, lebron yeah like.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Seven insane so what's crazy to me about this STAT
is i was trying to think about what other sport
could you have one attribute that you would, Say this
if you just have, this attribute you would be we'll say. Ten,
percent yeah you know you're in. A, league yeah if
you just, have this you know you're a certain amount,
(03:06):
of pounds, your height even like. ARM length i don't
know what are other attributes.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
That's so, skill based but it's interesting that this is
kind of the.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Outlier, there YEAH and i think it's largely just because
the receptacle that you need to score in is, high
up and like in other sports that's not the case
the goal or.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Whatever is but the same level as.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Like track right you're running, a distance, you, think oh, having,
legs yeah gives you. An advantage but as we know,
in track just being tall doesn't mean.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
You're, faster yeah you can only have legs so, tall
yep before your camp and.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Can you move how quickly can you?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Move, those yeah you be able to.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
USE them i know in soccer it used to be,
the case at least at THE levels i, was playing
like a smaller person had, an advantage just like weaving. Through,
traffic essentially if you, were taller you're a little clunkier
or they've just made you.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Goal controversial but what about.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
A, Horse, jockey oh being SMALL because i don't KNOW what,
i mean it's not but you wouldn't say all people between,
these ages, you know between five three and whatever, A.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Jockeys yeah if you're four four ten to, five, three
man you're probably gonna.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Be a seventeen percent chance you're GONNA be i guess
that's part of, it, Too right it's like it's not just,
the attribute it's the attribute plus being in the, like,
yeah yeah it's, like okay and this is the thing we.
All know oh, you see somebody told you. Play basketball
it's like, so dumb but everyone. Does it and it's
like there's no other, you know one looks at like
a short person and it's like you should be. A
(04:39):
jockey you know people are recruiting spy if you. Said,
that yeah but it's, you know every tall person. Must,
play yeah the amount of.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Tall people i've told That the lakers, need THEM but
i just see them around At.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
The, mars yeah you've never seen him.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Play, basketball yeah they just need. TO la i have
a Picture, with lebron so just send him this picture
and tell him you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Know me.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Also in the, News lately tinder is introducing a.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Height.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Filter Yeah does hinge?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
HAVE it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I don't i don't think any. Of them i'm a
singing doesn't. Have it but it's part of the your Profile, how,
yeah Yeah but tinder. Has that oh, They DO like,
i thought you have to put it in. Your, bio,
Well listen i'm not.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
In there let me. Be, CLEAR yeah i haven't used
that some years FROM what. I recall just to be
clear FROM what, i recall damn years and years Ago
that hinge had it built into.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Your profile you had to, List. It, hinges Yeah it.
TINDER whatever i think you can turn it On.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
On tinder, but yeah it is one of. Those things it's, Not,
necessary HINGE like i think it's required.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Along with the seven.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
FOOT thing i think many people don't know what six.
Foot is, oh yeah that's why people think six foot is.
Very attractive they don't realize maybe five seven is. Really,
attractive actually REMEMBER when i came out to you.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
AS short i, Do, remember.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Well it was a.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
DEVASTATING day.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
I definitely i feel very strongly that people don't know
what six feet is when they're looking. In irl like
if you tell them women on dating Apps who i've
been on dates with, years ago THEY thought i was
like over. Six, FEET well i think it's part of
looking AT and i wish that, was true but.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
It's not some people have taller short. Energy, too well
there's a lot of.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Proportion, too, yes YES so i think that explained why
YOU thought i was TALLER than.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I was i didn't think you.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
WERE taller i have skinny LITTLE that i thought you.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
WERE tall i just thought you were a. Normal height.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
We might need to, Cancel THIS.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So i really wanted to fact check the stat updated
to current day league status as BEST as. I can
i want to know how many seven footers there are
in the world and find out exactly how advantageous that
extreme height is in, The, league like is someone who's
seven feet that much more valuable than someone who's just, Six'
ten and.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I want to talk to a seven footer whether or
not they're. In the, league yeah right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
We are back so we're going to try to find
out if that original statu is True that an american
man aged twenty to forty who's seven feet tall has
a seventeen percent probability of BEING. In the NBA but
first i wanted to find out how many seven footers
exist in, the world total and the data was surprisingly
hard to come by, on MY own so i reached
out to a few researchers who have looked into heights.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
IN various Ways I.
Speaker 7 (07:53):
AM barry bogan i, am an anthropologist and my special
interest is human physical growth and development, and, how, social
economic political and emotional factors influence the way children grow
and adults. Grow as well everybody is just always been amazingly.
(08:14):
FASCINATED with height i have A book Called Patterns, of
HUMAN growth and i Cite work by chinese matchmakers going
back centuries and height was sometimes the most important factor
in making. A successful match almost all societies are patriarchies
that the men want. To be dominant whether they are
(08:36):
or not. Is another question but they want, to be
dominant and height is a social signal of physical. Signal
of dominance out of all the presidents they've ever Been In,
the united states only four were shorter than their challengers,
in the elections and the ones who win are the
ones who. Seem more successful when, you, ask people well
(08:57):
how told you you, think they are people always over.
Estimate Their height elon musk's height has probably increased in
people's estimation as he has gone from just rich to
the most wealthy person. In THE universe if i introduce you,
as you know some guy who, has a, podcast YOU
know or i introduce, you, as Professor Doctor a, nobel
(09:19):
prize WINNER and then i ask people? What's your height
your height goes up as your. Status goes up even
if they've met you and shaken, hands with you they'll
still estimate your height based on their perceived notion of.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Your social status, first of all why is she assuming
that a podcaster is? A, lower, cast OKAY respected.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
And i was pretty disgusting.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
WHAT he said i assume all podcasters are at least
five ten.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
At least starting my, second thing, is you know we
talk a lot about. The presidential, races you know we've
never had. A. Woman president yeah has anyone ever brought
up the fact that women are typically shorten than men ever?
Thought about that. No one is i'm the first. Person
right now how did?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You mention. It they are another Researcher, From The netherlands
bjorn he mentioned that height is an indicator of other factors.
Speaker 8 (10:11):
In a society so for many people it's a it's
a sort, of nice gimmick and it's you see a
lot in the in the media and, in the press
like this country has become total and they dot chart
of tolest. In the world, but for me it's an
indicator of living standards. Of a population so the average
height and especially changes in average height tell us how a.
(10:32):
Population is doing height is. Basically two things on, the one,
hand it's nutrition so, your nutritional intake and on, the
other hand it's claims on energy that you cannot. Use
to grow so if there's a lot of, claims on,
energy for example because there's a lot, of child illnesses
you live in, a cramped space you live in a,
(10:53):
very polluted area then. You grow shorter if there's not enough,
nutrition these things then also you will not grow as
tall as you're capable, of doing so it's sort of
fulfilling your genetic potential and in a way that enables
us to track living. Standards over time and So, for
(11:14):
the dutch the living standards has gone Up. In the
dutch by eighteen fifty were ranked in The middle of
europe and now they are the tallest. In the world
and that Is because the dutch have, become much healthier
have become a. Very equal society so health is, available
to everyone but also nutrition is, available to everyone and
(11:35):
basically the combination of these two Things helped the dutch.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
TO grow taller a few things there, That stood out
so obviously genetics play a big, part in it but
it's also about fulfilling that kind of maximum potential that
you get through more comfortable lifestyles, and you. Know better
nutrition these sorts of things very e gould the same
thing as, far as like so much is just based
on kind.
Speaker 7 (11:57):
Of ENERGY use when i grew up as an anthropology
the main factor people considered was. Genetics and diet there's
all kinds of crazy ideas and good. Ideas about that
but in The last decade i've been working with some
Colleagues here in europe And In, the united states and we've, found, that,
social economic political and emotional factors are as important or
(12:22):
more important than. Genetics are, diet you know think about
reving the engine of a high performance car. All the
time you just keep your foot on the accelerator. All
the time how long is the engine? Going to last
chronic stress from constant, threat of, violence constant inequality constantly
worrying about where you're going to get enough money. To
(12:43):
buy food that's like reving your body's engine. All the
time eventually. It gives out we've known for a long
long time and the classic studies that show if you,
stress kids out even if you, feed them well they've
got all. Kinds of problems that was shown in a
Classic Just after, world war two very Famous and lovely
(13:05):
British Nutritionist. Named elsie widowsin.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So the study went like this in, nineteen forty six
they gave one, orphanage extra biscuits oranges and milk. With
their meals a second orphanage stuck to the normal meal.
Plan no supplements, after six months the kids at the
orphanage without the extra.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Food grew taller, that seemed odd so.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
They switched orphanages the first orphanage with, the extra food
now use the, normal meal plan and the second orphanage,
got the extras and. It happened again the orphanage that
was eating.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Less. Grew Taller Why.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
What elsie widowson discovered was that the head matron disciplined
the children. At meal time, in other words if, you, were,
bad right, okay no way you're, a bad boy she'd
call you up to the front and she would cane
you in front of all. The other children then they
would serve the meal that. Stops you, digestion.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And she, the mean matron happened to switch orphanages right
when they switched the meal protocol, For the study so
she was at the first one with the extra food and,
the extra beatings and then she switched to. The other
one so eventually it was realized that if, kids were
stressed they didn't.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Grow as tall.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Stress and those sorts of things can really impede even
if you're, getting that stuff and like, if your, parents
you know your parents are really, tall and whatever but
you're just not going to ever make it just, based
on that.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Just, based on, stress yeah yeah or being in a
situation or you. Don't, FEEL secure well.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
I have a personal Experience with tall Dutch people because
MEA's dad is dutch and her brother In, law is
dutch and they are both tall, a to.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Hell NICE lives so i.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Can confirm no Stress, even.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Good yeah got good safety.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Nets over, there well yeah so Then sorry about that's
the other big thing that both of them brought up
whenever they do these surveys of like, the happiest countries they're,
the taller countries and they're countries that, have gotten taller,
and those, countries you know many Of, them in, scandinavia
et cetera have pretty good healthcare, systems, versus, like okay
well LIKE, in the, us for example some people are
(15:21):
getting great healthcare and growing, and getting taller so certain
population and then.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Others are not.
Speaker 7 (15:29):
The AVERAGE in the us is like five ten and a,
half for men But for none hispanic white that's what
this is what The Government, calls European americans, none hispanic
white that goes up about not, even an inch so maybe.
Five foot eleven But for non hispanic black that is
(15:50):
the average about five foot ten. And a half so
one Average In. The United states european americans are a
little Bit Taller, than african americans and the reason for
that is because of the discrimination and inequality that Exists In.
The united states and that's, not you know me just
(16:11):
coming up with that off the top. Of my head
there are, hundreds, of scientific medical sociological research articles. THAT
support this.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I wanted to know how much of height is based
on genes versus these other let's call. Them environmental factors.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So that's that's.
Speaker 9 (16:27):
A Difficult question so i'll tell you what we know
from the genetics and then go into. Like Specific cases.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's chiomelett he's a professor Of genetics At. University of
montreal so.
Speaker 9 (16:37):
If we look in a population again like you KNOW
in The us, and canada anymore and we look at the,
distribution of height the variation across the population is largely.
Controlled by genetics so, it's not nutrition it's, not the.
Environment it's genetics it's what. We call irritability it gives
you a sense of how genetically control. That variation is
(17:00):
and you know that's. True for height it's true also
for a, disease like schizophrenia which is largely. Dictated by
genetics so now. About your question it's true that if
you have a child that, doesn't eat anything he or
she will not reach is, her, Full potential right so
so nutrition, has an impact but globally in the population.
(17:21):
It's it's minimal it's different than condition, likes say obesity,
where you know the environment has a much larger impact
on the variation. Within the population so height is very genetic.
In that sense, to.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Sum up it's roughly eighty percent genes versus twenty percent
other factors when looking at height. Across a population so
how rare exactly? Is seven feet The answer extremely if
the average HEIGHT in the us for a man is
sixty nine, point three inches which is about five foot ten,
and a half a man who is six' two is
(17:55):
taller than ninety, Five percent of others so beyond that. It's,
really slim page plus many extremely tall people, suffer from
growth disorders which won't factor into the standard distribution. From
a population sample so the best estimates shows something like
twenty six hundred to three thousand seven footers.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
In the entire world.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So to, kind of sum up it's unclear exactly how
many seven, footers there are worldwide but, we have an
estimate and that kind of number, of twenty eight, hundred
give or, take is somewhat accurate or at least these
guys kind of signed off on we can work with. That,
with an asterisk okay so. Let's hold onto. That we'll
revisit later HOW accurate the actual?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Nba?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Seven footer, STATUS okay but yeah i thought this is
all really interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And, made ME you know now, i support you. Know
single payer healthcare finally.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You, DID it before yeah, i Was border, line, but i'm,
like well YOU know if maybe i could have been,
taller because?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Of that why, NOT but next up i wanted to
get some.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Intel from a perspective so if you're a team lucky
enough to, nab a seven footer does that actually make a.
Difference on the, court but before, THAT after much searching
i was able to have a quick chat with. AN,
actual seven footer whoa he's, not a basketball player but.
He's a music writer h. Let's, take a listen Hi My.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Name is tom brian. I'm a music writer i'm The Senior.
Editor FOR stereo GUM and i thought i. WAS seven
feet tall i might, be A little shorter but. I'M
somewhere around there I played basketball when. I was a
kid i played, up THROUGH high school and. I was
not good, i was, a real real clumsy like. WAF
of a kid i, was LIKE dangerously, skinny AND i.
(19:48):
TRIED but i don't i, didn't TRY that HARD and
i never i never loved. IT as a kid i
like it a lot. More as an.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Adult how often?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Are? You asked.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
That oh every DAY the last time i had a
teacher TALLER than me was i want. To say fifth
grade it. Might be fourth grade my dad was six
six and my, mom WAS six two and i was.
Beyond them really quickly i'm the one Of the tallest.
People i've ever.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Met what are kind of the best things you would?
SAY about being tall.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
I like.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Being remembered that's nice it. Can be tricky sometimes it's
one of, those THINGS where like if, i meet somebody
once THEY'LL remember me and i. Might not remember, them
like that said that's. A pretty common thing, but it's,
nice to you know walk into a. Room and stand
OUT it's not something. I take for granted being able
to see it. SHOWS is really nice i see a,
(20:42):
lot of live music and, PEOPLE who, are taller i
understand are. Typically considered more attractive we get. Paid more like,
that on and. On down the, list that's ALL nice
it's it's i can't say any of that's a. Real
drawback for me but fitting, In cars is hard fitting.
In planes is possible shopping.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
For.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Clothes is difficult amazon You can shop on amazon by
shoe size and they just grade. OUT the size twenty
i can't look. For TAS twenty anymore like i could
almost have A panic attack anytime i, get ON an
airplane and i, almost never DO it, but when i
do those flight, attendants are usually nice and they'll usually
try to find me a spot in THE eggsit row
(21:21):
if i wasn't able. To get, one beforehand you know people.
Are understanding about it they, know that that sucks. But
it really sucks even the most comfortable airplane. SEAT is
it's rough i DO a thing where i pretty much
brace my knees against the seat, in front of me
and if anybody even, TRIES to lean, back I just
push like i just wedge myself in to make. It
(21:44):
So they can't. AND i'm not sorry i think anything
that makes a person different can make that person. Like
PARALYZINGLY self conscious and i think, AS a younger person
i was that way about my height at. IS a
certain point i, think to regular, people it's probably like
what you're complaining because you, got too much, money or something,
Like oh my. God i'm SO handsome how do i
(22:06):
get out of. Bed looking this good everybody's life is
enthralled to things. That they can't control and this IS
a thing that i didn't do shit. To get this
tall it's just something. That happened to me the thing
that people don't necessarily know about people this tall is
that we feel kind of, weird about, it too you
know like it's like it's just like it's always a
(22:27):
constant negotiation of like how do we deal with the
fact that it's the first thing that anyone is ever
going to notice about you when. You walk into it.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
What do you think about hearing, from the tall.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
COMMUNITY it's really interesting i am one of the people
he was talking ABOUT at first, where, i was like
oh you're too tall in, a break but yeah clearly
sounds like a huge obstacle. IN his everyday life i
had never even thought about how planes are not made.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
For people, THAT tall Oh.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah i mean I'm uncomfortable Ones and, i'm Saying i'm, sure,
like i'm.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
LIKE damn this sucks i can't wait to. Get out of,
here and you know at least my knees.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Can fit behind the seatot the thing he said about, Just, everyone,
REMEMBERS him yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I would totally remember that's. A seven foot guy it
makes me.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Think about what because if people who are seven feet
tall don't like, being seven feet tall it makes me
think about what, Is the ideal height like if, everyone
got to choose it obviously.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Wouldn't BE seven feet if.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I had to pick i would. Say, LIKE six feet
yeah i.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
THINK six six one i wouldn't want to go.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
MUCH higher than that i think once you're once you're,
getting past sixty three it's then it seems like it could,
probably be. A, burden you know yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Even it could become a part of your life. That, you,
don't care like yeah then everyone's like you're so tall all.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
The time while you're hitting extreme level, height where, it's
like oh yeah this, tall guy looks, good, not Like
damn bro, The lakers NEED you like what i DO
to people, When i see them.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
You don't want. You don't do.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
THAT that'd be horrible i don't want to BE as.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Annoying as i am so now we know how many. Seven,
footers there are well we know how unknowable, it Is
at least but i'm curious about how valuable they are.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
IN a basketball sense I Reach.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Out to owen PHILLIPS he writes the f five newsletter
and previously worked as a data ANALYTICS. Guy FOR the nick,
so i, asked Him first off how rare is a
true seven.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Footer in the league so if you.
Speaker 10 (24:25):
Look at, the data this year there were thirty nine
players that are listed at. Seven feet or taller there
are five HUNDRED and, seventy five nba players so you're
looking at about SEVEN percent of the nba population is,
Seven feet or.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Taller so thirty, nine the tallest, player By The. Way
is zach.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Edy you just finished he just finished his Rookie Year,
for the memphis grizzlies and he's. Listed at seven four wemby. Is.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
SEVEN to three. WOW i don't know i haven't looked at. Them,
SIDE by side wemby i. Guess, just looks lankier. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
HE'S so slimmy yeah i WANTED to if the nba
has been? Getting taller over time are we?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
At?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Peak seven footer now we.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Have to be right so he says it depends on
when you're, compared the number two because if you looked at,
like seventy years ago when, it was you know other people, in.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
The league whites it, was not, you. Know then yes definitely.
Speaker 10 (25:21):
So if you look at it over the COURSE, of
the entire nba there are far more seven footers today
than there. Were seventy years ago but we are not.
A peak, seven footer in fact in the late, nineties
early two thousands there were over fifty SEVEN, Footers in
the nba and you can THINK about all the nba
players that basically had Jobs just. To Guard schequil O'Neil.
Speaker 9 (25:41):
O neil puts, it on, the floor d stop then,
he put it down he.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Put the gold down.
Speaker 10 (25:48):
Every, team needed a player sometimes two players to Be,
able to guard shack and so you had a proliferation
all these SEVEN footers in the. Nba at the time
so right now we're actually at a not, quite in
the deer but we're kind of on the upswing after
it hollowing out in the mid auts, for a little
while and now we're starting to see a resurgent of
sorts of SEVEN. Footers In the nba.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
So owen explain that the play style back then was
much more focused on getting right, up to the basket
so obviously taller. Players benefit from that you can just
kind of stand there and. Just put it in, but
then more recently with the rise of, the three point
shot the value of.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
The seven footer decreased.
Speaker 10 (26:23):
Kind of Around The time when steph curry started to
revolutionize basketball with the three point shot And He Saw
the golden state warriors really excel By Playing, a center
draymond green who was six foot six. As their tallest
player you started to see the league kind of get
smaller across the board and the use of a seven
footer wasn't as valuable because they weren't capable of extending
(26:46):
their rage to the three point line, or defending these
smaller quicker players that were SUDDENLY.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
ALL over the nba i wanted to know how much
that extreme height actually, helps compared to say being. Only
Six to ten the ringer does like a regular top.
One hundred player rankings this is one data point to
kind of put. Some proof to This twelve of the
ringers top one hundred players are. Seven feet are taller
seven PERCENT of the total nba population is seven feet
so they are overrepresented there as far as being good
(27:12):
Players If, you TRUST bill simmons which i don't save,
that for, another podcast, but yeah that said, height is
one thing but wingspan is really what's important since you
don't block.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Shots, With, your dome yeah.
Speaker 10 (27:25):
Now is it better than being six'? Ten or being. Six'
eleven hard to say and i think one of the
things that's really important to remember is that height can
sometimes be a misnomer and what WE'RE actually more interested.
In the nba is their length so a player who's
six eleven with a seven foot seven wingspan is probably
more valuable than a seven foot player, with a seven
(27:46):
to five wingspan because how far you can reach is
more important, than how tall your. Head is if that makes.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Sense and, not to be the idiot here but can you?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Just?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Establish, what a.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Wingspan is yeah yeah oh yeah so wingspan would be
measured from measuring like if you put out your arms
like a completely extend plan style horizontally and measured from
the tip of your longest finger all. The way TO
the other one and usually i think for most people
the wingspan. Is, slightly longer than their height yet.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So that's a little bit about what it's like to BE.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Seven feet tall in the nba we're, going to take
one more break and then when we're back we'll find
out if that.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Original, stat is.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
At all accurate, okay welcome back so, so far here's
what we've learned how rare it, is to be seven
feet tall what, it's like to be really tall and
how SEVEN. Footers are used in the nba so now.
(28:48):
It's time to Do the math if you're an american
man between, the ages of twenty and forty and, you're
at least seven feet tall how likely are you? To
be a professional basketball player after Crunching some numbers, Using
the proprietary noah mathematics system my math CAREER ended up pre.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Calculus and I never. Took statistics here's.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
What i found any seven footer worldwide has a one
point four PERCENT. Likelihood of Being in the, nba for
an american seven footer that. Number jumps to about, Sixteen,
Percent my Team of researchers barry bjorn and guillome said
this is. More or, less in, the ballpark of course
they're professionals so they said this comes with an asterisk
(29:29):
considering the unknown quantity, of seven.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Photers with growth disorders et.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Cetera, so obviously the stat you know the original article
we were, talking about was from, twenty eleven. So obviously different. Players,
et cetera it's pretty close yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And, the guys backed it up yeah it was seventeen
in the original one.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
And this is.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Sixteen based on the updated it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So again, giving, that everything's a little, bit.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Yeah a little.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Bit.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
HERE we're in the park yeah i.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Think if you're basically, you know you're fourteen or whatever
and you know you're gonna you're that, TALL or you're
gonna be yeah i.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
THINK you can basically do it i also think now
it's different because they're looking, at, players younger and younger
now yeah where, we're highlight tapes of, you know, middle,
Schoolers now.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Right being like look i'll tell all this, middle.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Schooler is whereas, you know ten fifteen, years ago even
twenty years. Ago probably, was, not the case.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah yeah yeah like they would have to seek it out.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
A bit more exactly for sure now the world will get,
around if you had you know, a six, or eight
eighth grader yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah and like just videos of, him even just, standing,
there yep blocking one shot yep unathletically AND as we
know with the nba, in the past fifteen twenty years
like the pool of seven footers has just exponentialized because
they're going.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
International, now to do this sat YEAH.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
They've got all these like nba satellites basically where they can.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
Just.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
There's just a way bigger yeah and look look at
all the great.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Players, coming from, the happier countries yeah you know.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
So it's only, gonna there's, only gonna be.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
More.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
YOU know, Yeah to come yeah i hope well that
Means we.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Have, a HAPPIER world i've learned.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yea, so i hope you know yeah not ONLY for
the great entertainment, value i, get from, the sport but
yeah you know for. The, Social safety, Net And More.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Touch Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Touch thank No, Such Thing As Produced by Me Noah.
Friedman manny fidel and devin Joseph The theme music is
by many thanks to, All Of, Our Guests, This, Week Barry.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Bogan Bjorn Kwanyer.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Diomlett tom bryan, and Owen phillips what A crew and
i'm sorry if i. Said any of those names wrong
please subscribe. To You Our Newsletter at Www. Dot no
such thing dot show i'll be sharing links to some of,
the research discussed In the episode, As WELL as, owen's basketball.
Newsletter the f five and more please Don't, Forget to
follow us on, Apple spotify or wherever you listen share
(31:59):
it friend.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And leave a five star review.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
It really does help a lot and if you have a,
question you want us to tackle Please show us an email,
at manninoadevin at gmail dot com or. You can leave
us a VOICEMAIL the number is eight six o three.
Two five zero two eight six thanks so much for listening.
And we will be back soon
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