July 4, 2023 • 66 mins
Our guest today is the incredibly talented and versatile musician, Mickey Raphael. His legendary harmonica playing is the hallmark of many songs you know. Not only has he played with everyone from Elton John to Neil Young to Chris Stapleton, but has spent the last 50 years playing alongside Willie Nelson. Mickey and Norah connect on their musical beginnings, their chance meetings with Willie, and life on the road. You won’t want to miss this episode of classics and a spin on one of Norah’s originals! Recorded 4/28/23.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, I'm Norah Jones and today I'm playing along with
Mickey Raphael.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm just playing with you. I'm just playing a lone
with you.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
There, I'm Norah and with me as always Sarah Oda. Here,
I am welcome to the show. Welcome.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Our guest today is a legendary harmonica player, Mickey Raphael.
Speaker 5 (00:30):
Oh it's family times this episode.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
If you don't know his name, you probably could recognize
his signature harmonica sound as he's contributed to performances and
recordings of so many artists such as Chris Christofferson, Emmy
Lou Harris, Neil Young.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Elton, John Ray, Charles Bob.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Dylan, John Prime, Solomon Burke, Alison Kraus, and many many more.
And this year he's celebrating fifty years of playing and
touring with one of our absolute favorites, Willie new Nelson.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Fifty years. He's played with Willie Nelson for fifty years.
It's crazy. And I met Mickey in somewhere in two
thousand and two, the first time I opened for Willie.
And he's been a good friend for god over twenty
years now, which is crazy time. Is a funny thing
(01:24):
we happened to be in La in April for Willie
Nelson's ninetieth birthday party, which was a crazy two day
show at the Hollywood Bowl, And I get to spend
all week hanging out with Mickey and eating breakfast with him,
and he agreed to do this show with me. So
we had so much fun just talking and playing songs,
(01:45):
and I learned a lot about him that I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
And this episode really runs the gamut. I mean, you're
gonna hear songs that are familiar, You're going to learn
about his instrument, the harmonica, and hear some great stories from.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
The road, oh yeah, the road, the road.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And we happen to record this episode at night in
the morning because because he had rehearsals all day for
Willie's birthday shows, and it was kind of tricky fitting
this in actually, but we started this session at night
in the morning, which is not normal for musicians with
an appropriate song. Yeah, so please enjoy this episode with
(02:23):
Mickey Rafael.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I'm just playing love Weesday.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Have you ever done night live at nine thirty in
the morning, Well, it's.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
That's the perfect time because because you just come on
my way home.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, so we'll pretend We've been out up all night, all.
Speaker 7 (02:41):
Night binge watching Breaking Bad.
Speaker 8 (03:12):
When the evening son gos Dave, You're gonna find.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Me hanging round.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Nine life.
Speaker 8 (03:27):
Ain't no good life, but it's my life. Many people
just like me, dreaming of all used to be.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Nine life.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
There ain't no.
Speaker 8 (03:56):
Good but it's my life, This says blues blind.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Listen to what the blues I say. Mine is just
another scene.
Speaker 9 (04:38):
From the world, a broken dream, my love.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I ain't no good.
Speaker 10 (04:50):
Life, Oh but it's my life.
Speaker 11 (05:31):
Listening in the blue who's a blade? Listening where the blue.
Speaker 9 (05:50):
Lasty man is just another scene a little broken rage,
not love and.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Long good.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
But it is mine.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Oh my god, you're sound so good. How many times
do you think you play that song over the years?
Speaker 6 (06:36):
God, fifty years, fifty years. Yeah, I'll be next week
it'll be fifty years with Willy.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
So this is a whole other anniversary week too. Yeah,
so it says ninetieth birthday tomorrow.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
My I have fifty years for me and the first
fifty years, the.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
First fifty years, the fifty years with Willy. Yeah, that's incredible.
How did you guys hook up? I don't know the story, really,
I don't really know it.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
Well, I was playing. I was in Dallas, playing with B. W. Stevenson,
who was of a folky you know, folks singer at
the time. And how's this story go? So I get
a call from Darryl Royal, who was the coach of
the University of Texas football team. And I wasn't a big,
you know, a sports fan, but I knew who the
coach was. I mean, the stadium in Austin is named
(07:24):
after him. And he was a close friend of Willie's
and a patron of the arts and loved music. And
so he called and said, after the ballgame, you know,
I think they were playing Arkansas in Dallas, and he said,
We're gonna have a little picking party in my hotel room.
Why don't you get your harmonicas and come over and
meet some of my friends, and you know, I want
to meet you. So I went and Willy was there,
(07:45):
and Charlie Pride was there, and you know, about thirty
people in the room and they just sat and passed
the guitar back and forth to each other, and I
had my harmonicas and I really didn't know anything about Willy.
I had one Willie record because we were on our
CAA and I was able to go into the vault
and grab any guess who album I wanted, you know.
So there was this album called Willie and Family and
(08:05):
it had everybody, you know, Willie and all the band
and their families around a bonfire at his farm in
a ridgetop and I thought, this is such an interesting album,
you know. So I got it, and I knew the songs.
I'm going to recognized, you know, some of.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
The songs and they were all his songs or there were.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Some covers on that on that album. But that that's
my first you know, intro into Willie. And then when
he was sitting on the floor of this hotel room
playing night Live and funny how time SIPs away, so
he's crazy, just sitting on the floor with his guitar,
and I thought, oh, so that's who this guy is,
you know. And funny story about that album cover because
(08:46):
it was just, you know, it's just like twenty people
around the campfire in the woods. And I was asking Paul,
you know Willi's drummer of many years, I said, so
I can, Paul English, I said, I know.
Speaker 7 (08:56):
Here's be the bass player.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
And there's Willy, and there's Willie's why and kids and
his daughter, And I said, I named everybody but one guy.
I said, who is this one guy? I don't recognize?
And Paul looked at him and goes, well, don't know either.
He just walked in from out of the woods. Yeah,
which is a typical Willie.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
That's very funny. Yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So when he was playing like crazy in nightlife and
that night on the hotel room floor, was that before
those songs were recorded.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
No, they were recorded seventy three, so I'd heard him,
but I'd heard BB King's version or Wreatha Franklin's version,
and then you know, I just sat in with I mean,
I was playing, you know, doodling around on the harmonica,
trying to keep up with him, and and I think
he played Mountain Dew that was another song he played,
and he's will He said, hey, you know, if you
ever hear we're playing anywhere, come see, you know, come
(09:48):
sit in. And there were I saw a couple of
weeks later they were doing a benefit in Lancaster, you know,
which is right south of Dallas, and it was for
a volunteer fire department at the Junior High. So I
went and drove down there and they're set up on
the basketball court, you know, the drums.
Speaker 7 (10:07):
I think I think Bobby was there.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
There might have been a piano, because later on sometimes
we'd get to a gig and there's no piano.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Oh yeah, so what did she do? She just wouldn't play.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, yeah, there was no calling in a keyboard and
then finding a.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
Piano, sidy to bring a piano over to the gym.
So I was just playing, you know, sat in with
him and I think we played that song fra Auleine
about four times because people wanted to dance.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
I mean we were playing a dance really.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
And then afterwards we went to a truck stop, which
is what you do at two am, you know, for breakfast,
and had breakfast and talked and I was getting ready
to leave and drive back to Dallas, and I thought,
I'll have one more cup of coffee, and in that
last cup, Willie goes, well, we're going to play in
New York in a couple of months. Why don't you
go with us? And they were playing Maxis Kansas City,
which was that you know, the punk club in New York,
(10:59):
and you know, so I said sure, I'll go and
that was it.
Speaker 7 (11:02):
That was it.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
Yeah, well I was starting. There's still a few weeks
before that show happened. So I would find out where
they were playing and drive down to the gig and
just sit in with them.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
They didn't have a bus.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
Everybody was like taking their own cars to these gigs. Yeah,
And after a couple of weeks, Willie asked Paul, He said,
what are we paying Mickey, And Paul says, we're not
paying them anything. You're just sitting in and Willie goes, well,
double the salary.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
So you were just waiting. You're just hoping, I know,
you get paid for this, you know, you just having fun, well,
just having fun.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
And I thought it might be because I was this little
hippie kid from Dallas, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
With big hair, big hair, long hair.
Speaker 6 (11:39):
Yeah, and I thought it'd be fun to play in
a country western band.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
You know.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
We played these gigs, these clubs that I couldn't go
in by myself.
Speaker 7 (11:47):
I mean, I have to wait.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
We'd park in the parking lot b too, because they
had long hair, and we wait for Paul to get there,
who was heavily armed, and he would we'd all walk
in together.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Wow, that's insane.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
Yeah, it was crazy. This is yeah nineteen seventy three,
you know, so of all the hippies. And that's one
thing that Willy really did, or that the music was
so famous for, is getting the you know, the rednecks
and the hippies together together.
Speaker 7 (12:12):
Yeah. But yeah, music was a common bond.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
That's great.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
That's always been his magic power.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:20):
But some of these joints, man, there was Big G's
was one of them. And that was the win Around
Rock Texas North.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Austin, Okay, I know around Rock Yeah, well.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
It's really beautiful now, it's really developed. This was, you know,
just like a tin building totally.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
You grew up in Dallas.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
I grew up in Dallas. What part, Well, it was
North Dallas when I was there. Right now it's almost
the center of the city, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
But they're Preston uh, Preston Royal, Preston Royal, between Preston
Royal and Preston Center. And there was this little bar,
this little Italian restaurant that my mom used to go
to all the time called Popolo's. And I heard a
vicious rumor that you were the piano player.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
I was, but she doesn't remember me.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
She did, she didn't remember.
Speaker 7 (13:04):
I have cousins that went there.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
And do remember you later, Yeah, they do. Really, that's crazy.
That was like in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
Eight, Yeah, because you were still in North Texas and
your record hadn't come out yet.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
It hadn't come out. I mean, yeah, I didn't even
know what I was doing yet. I was just playing
this weekend gig at Popolo's. But that place had been
there a long time then, kind.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Of yeah, I mean because I was in and out
of town. I mean I left in seventy seventy three
when I went to work with Willie, But I come
back and see my folks, yeah, know, and they were there, man,
you know for forever.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
That's crazy. So when did you did you record with Willie?
What was the was he just always recording and writing?
Speaker 6 (13:47):
Well, he left Nashville because he was, you know, just
got tired of the Nashville scene, and.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
So he had done.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
When I went to work with him, he had just
finished Phases the Stages, which was a great record that
Jerry Wexler produced, and then he a year or so
after that, he came up and said, I've got an
idea for an album I want to do, and he
had all the lyrics on Napkins, you know, and I
think he had driven back from from Colorado and wrote
this this concepts its concept album, you know. So it's
(14:19):
a whole kind of uh you know, stream of consciousness
idea I have. And I had been doing jingles and
commercials and stuff in Dallas. So he asked me to
find a studio and we went to the studio in Garland, Texas,
which is I think north or northeast of Dallas, and
went in for a couple of days and cut Redheaded Strangers.
So that was the first record I played on.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
That's what I thought.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
And we just sat in a circle in a small
little studio and Willie would play the songs and that
records so sparse one because that's his style, but two
we're hearing the songs for the first time.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It was it's I mean, it's one of my favorites forever.
And it was just you and Willie and Bobby, Jody
and be Jody Pain b Spears, Bobby, Bobby.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
Nelson, and then uh a friend of Willie's, Bucky Metis,
played guitar on a couple of things.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
It's jazz guitar player from Houston.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
That's amazing. I mean, that's like the sound of my childhood,
really it is. And and to me, you know, Willie
is so willy, but he is also the sound of Willie,
you know from from He's done so much, but the
sound of you and Bobby and b spears and and
(15:34):
Paul's not on that record.
Speaker 7 (15:35):
Paul there too.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
There's some there's sometimes on it, but it's just like
super Light.
Speaker 6 (15:40):
They had a whole kid, but I think he just
played again. We're just hearing this for the first time,
and the songs were so just kind of spare, and
that was Willie's.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah thing, they didn't need a whole kid. But but
then Paul English would do that on stage with you
guys were he would just do He just played a snare.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
After a while, that was it. We had all a
camp several for twenty years or so. And then towards
the end or the last ten or fifteen years, he
went down to a snare.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
But it had such a vibe and yeah, he could
pull it off too, he could. And there I don't know,
it's just the sound of Bobby on the piano has
been such a big influence to me truly, and I
didn't even know when it was influencing me when I
was younger that it was her, you know what I mean,
(16:29):
Like it was before I really looked at the album
credits or thought.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
About that stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I just knew Willie, And as I got to know
you guys over the years, I couldn't believe, like it
was like meeting family. The first show I did with
you guys was the film at the Film Moore in
San Francisco, and I think it didn't hit me until
that moment. Well, I had seen you guys play when
I was in high school. Actually, oh really, I probably
(16:55):
realized that then. Yeah. I went to interlock in Arts
camp there too. Yeah, I know, I saw you fifteen. Yeah,
I was like fifteen and I saw you and I
was like, holy crap, this is Redheaded Stranger band. And
I didn't realize it. And so when I got to
open for you guys, it was like meeting family, meeting
(17:16):
you and hearing you play and hearing Bobby play, and
it was just so crazy.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
It's so funny because you know, everybody's like, oh, that
that cute little Nora.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
She's so good.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Does she have a record deal, and I think you
had the biggest record on the planet at the time. No,
I didn't yet the record.
Speaker 7 (17:31):
Was now No.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I think when I opened for you guys at the
film More it was for four nights. I didn't have drums.
I was just doing like a trio with guitar and
bass and a WHIRLI because I didn't use Bobby's piano
or anything. And I think I I my record was
about to come out. It was like a month awa.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
We were all there watching and that's something that nobody
ever really leased.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
The bus.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
So yeah, well that's amazing. And I remember it was
maybe you said, do you want to come with Willy?
I'm not sure who it was, and I said, yeah,
but I haven't met him yet. This is the fourth night,
so I hadn't met him Night one, night two, night three.
This is my memory of it anyway. And then night before,
(18:12):
you want to come sing with Willy? I was like, yeah,
but I haven't met him yet. It was like this huge,
like weird. I was like, how am I going to
sing with him if I haven't met him? When am
I going to meet him? Doesn't matter? I was told,
just it's no big deal. Just come up on stage,
he'll announce you. I was like, but is this security
guard kind of like tackle me. I was so confused. Yeah,
(18:33):
and you guys all welcomed me and told me it
was fine, and he announced me. I came on stage
and that's the first time I met him, and we sang.
Helped me make it through the night.
Speaker 6 (18:42):
Oh, I didn't realize that's what it was. So wasn't
even the gospel stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
No, I don't know that. Somebody just said maybe that
song and suggested it, and that's what we did. And
he just looked at me when it was time for
me to sing and nodded, and I sang, and then
he said and then he'd look at me and nod
and I'd sing, and then he'd sing harmonies, and then
we both go for the same harmony, and then we
(19:06):
both switched to the You know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
That's why he works, because if you would have rehearsed
the song that afternoon, it would have been nothing like
the rehearsal that night. So you just kind of kind
of have to watch him. And you know, he's been
a bandleader.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
For so long.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, he watches I mean, he will lead it perfectly
and it was. I mean, I was on Cloud nine
and you're playing the harmonica, and I was like, this
is the sound of my favorite album of all time
right here.
Speaker 6 (19:34):
What a great writer Chris is too. I mean, for
Willie to do another writer's song well, and he.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Did so many other writers songs and such a great
ones that that song is.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
I think will is just a fan of great writing too,
of course, being a great writer himself, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, So I'm going to do help me make it
through the night at the Tomorrow night at the ninetieth.
So I'm excited about that because it's the first song
I sang with you all.
Speaker 7 (20:01):
You want to try it for fun?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (20:02):
I mean I haven't played it with you, so I
don't think I've even played it.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Should we try it that?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (20:07):
I mean, tape is.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Cheap, you know, yeah, man, let's do it.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
I do everything in B flat.
Speaker 7 (20:12):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So Chris Christofferson, I got to do one of those
Johnny Cash tributes with him after after Johnny Cash died,
I did this other I did a show with him
for Elvis Costello had this like songwriter pull show for
a while and we.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
Rehearsed this song.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I wrote a melody to these Hank Williams lyrics that
Bob Dylan had. This is like maybe fifteen years ago.
He was trying to curate some music to these found
Hank Williams lyrics that were never recorded, and so we
were doing this tune and it was a three part
harmony with me and Chris and Elvis Costello. The song's
(20:56):
called how Many Times Have You Broken My Heart?
Speaker 6 (20:59):
And it was your song or.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Well it was it was Hank william lyric, Hank William's
lyric that he that nobody ever heard the music too.
So they had me do the music to this one,
which was good. I mean, it was so fun and
weird and beautiful. The lyrics are so beautiful, and so
it was a three part harmony and we rehearsed it
and rehearse it because it was a little it's a
(21:22):
little tricky the harmony, and Elvis is a great singer,
and Chris was really intent on like making it right,
and it was really great at soundcheck, and then during
the show I think Elvis kind of like went to
the wrong note a couple of times, and so after
the show, I said, Chris, that was so awesome, thank
you for singing with me. You know, he goes, he
(21:42):
stole my note.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
I love that that cract.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Well, if you make a mistake, do it again, do
it twice, and it's not a mistake.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
No, totally, but three part harmony.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
It's tricky.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
And I told him before we went out to I said, have.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
A great have a great show. He goes, don't tell
me what to do.
Speaker 7 (22:04):
That's Chris is so sweet.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
No, he's so sweet. It was just his the lines
I'll never forget, and it just made me laugh. But
I'm so excited.
Speaker 6 (22:14):
I'm glad we're rehearsing this because I haven't done it
with you or even played it.
Speaker 7 (22:18):
In a while.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
So will you have it?
Speaker 8 (22:19):
Okay, take the ribbon from me eyes, shake it loose,
(22:56):
and let it fall, laying soft against my skin. Mm hmmm,
like shadows on the wall.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Come and lay down by my side till the early morning.
In life.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
All I'm taking is your time. Help me make it
through life.
Speaker 8 (23:48):
I don't care who's had on.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And I won't child to understand.
Speaker 8 (24:04):
Let the devil take tomorrow, custo.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Night need fair.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yesterday he is day, and tomorrow's out of sight.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
And it's sad to be alone. Help me make it through.
Speaker 12 (24:46):
Night?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Mm hmm, I don't care whose dare.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I don't turn, don't under stay.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Let the devil take tomorrow because tonight I need a phrase.
Speaker 8 (25:52):
Yesterdayday and tomorrow's out of side.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And it's sad.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
Belone, help me Maggie through the night.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I don't want to be alone. Help me Maggie through.
Speaker 7 (26:44):
I pad for the first time.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
No, how did you start playing the harmonica? When did
this happen? Grown up in Dallas.
Speaker 6 (26:54):
Yeah, well, a friend of my dad's gave me a harmonica.
He played washtub bass. Okay, but dad's attorney and they
would get together. My dad wasn't musical, but my mom
played piano. We had a piano in the house, and
I would come home from school in the afternoons and
she'd be playing gersh when she's playing Rhapsody in Blue,
oh wow, And I could just remember that. And that's
(27:14):
how she could kind of just escape from me and
my brother. And Yes, So I grew up around music,
you know, and wanted to be a musician. I had
a guitar, but I just didn't put the time in.
You know, you can't just wake up. I figured I
could wake up and know how to play it.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, that's like a kid.
Speaker 7 (27:33):
But the harmonica.
Speaker 6 (27:35):
My dad's friend gave me a a owner Marine band
and said, if you can play O Susanna, if you
learn to play oh Susanna, I'll give you this harmonica.
So I did, you know, and I got the harmonica
and then just kind of carried around. It's just one
of those instruments you can take with you anywhere.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
That's true.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
It's much easier, yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:53):
Than a guitar.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:54):
And I just you know, played it all the time.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
Just you know, during school or at school during lunch,
I'd walk around the track and just by myself and
just kind of play the harmonica, you know, kind of
as a little escape. And because in school I played
I was in the marching band and I played the tuba.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Oh my god.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
So that was the way to get away from that thing,
you know, which I wish I still played it. I
think they just needed somebody to carry carry it and
the well, actually they did. They came to my gym
class and said, you know, came to Pe and they
said we need a volunteer.
Speaker 7 (28:31):
We'll let you out of Pe.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
And I was a terrible athlete and hated, you know,
hated sports. So I just raised my hand, not knowing
what I was getting into, and they took me to
the band room and set me at a big sousaphone,
you know the one that wraps around you, and just
said make some noise on it. And the guy, the
teacher told me how to you know, just do you
know oompah stuff, and had all the charts were written
(28:55):
out with the fingerings on the valves, three valves, so
it might be, uh, you know, one.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
And three, one and two, two and three, one and.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
Two, and I just kind of read those numbers and
I kind of knew enough to go, you know, to
play a bass line. But but even if the music
wasn't precise, they needed somebody out there carrying that tuba
with a wool uniform on. So there was there was
my exercise right the in Texas.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I've been there. I've been there, marching band in Texas. Yeah,
it's hell, I mean, it's just so hot. I can't
believe you did that.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
It's like, well, we don't just get out there and
do the formations with the tuba, don't worry about playing.
Speaker 7 (29:43):
So when I could pick up.
Speaker 6 (29:44):
The harmonica, the first epiphany or the main one was
I went to this little club. I was hanging out,
this folk club in Dallas called the Rubiot, and Michael
Murphy played.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
There, Jerre J. F.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
Walker and Ray Wiley Hubbard, all these you know Texas folkies.
And there was a guy named Donnie Brooks who was
a harmonica player from Dallas.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
And when I heard him play, it just blew me away.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
Wow. He ended up going on to play with Whalon
about this a little before I was starting to play
with Willie, So he kind of set the uh set
the bar anyway for harmonica with country music. Other than
you know, Charlie McCoy, they weren't. I think Charlie was
really the only one doing it. Yeah, Donnie moved to
New York and was doing a lot of jingles. But
he set me down. You know, I met him and
(30:28):
I told him I was a big fan and won
learning how to play the harmonica. And he set me
down outside this club, the Rubiot and wrote out on
a napkin how to play a donnic diatonic scale, or
just how the notes were laid down on the harmonica.
It's like, uh, draw hole number one below two three,
draw three four, and you know, and that's that's the
basics for everything I played. Yeah, so he was a
(30:52):
big influence, and that's that's that's when I was hooked.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
And I would go to concerts and bring my harmonica
with me, and I remember were seeing Canned heat play
and I went home and pulled out the harmonica and
I was able to bend a note or play a
blues lick just accidentally.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
I just stumbled on this lick I heard that night.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
So I'm like, wait, during the gig or after no after.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
The game, when I went home and I thought, oh,
that was a lick I heard tonight. And ironically their
big hit was on the Road again.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
Oh wow, a different on the road again, a different one.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Okay, we do that again. Why is that so awesome?
It's just so awesome, right, you must have felt so
good when you did it.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:33):
I was like, oh, wait a minute, there's a pattern here,
there's a method to this.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah wow. So how long did it take till you
had every key?
Speaker 7 (31:41):
Oh? Till I had every key? Yeah, it was a
little while.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
It went till it made use of I mean, it
made sense for me to have more than one key
and then I started doing these sessions in Dallas. I
met Smoking Montgomery who ran a studio some of Burnett
I don't know if you know the and I would
go there. He'd have me come by after school and
I'd sit in the lobby and there'd be people doing
demos all day long and this, and the engineer would go,
(32:05):
you need a harmonica.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
Player, and then they'd call me in.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
So I kind of learned to, you know, my way
around the studio by just doing these, you know, sessions
for five bucks.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
A song that's so cool. Did you play a lot
of blues stuff?
Speaker 6 (32:18):
No, I really didn't grow up on blues till later,
you know. Really, yeah, it was well again, I was.
I was really influenced by the by the English invasion. Yeah, so, uh,
you know Brian Jones and uh uh you know played
harmonica with the Stones, and there was a guy named
Duster Bennett who was like a skiffle band. I mean,
(32:38):
well he was a one man band. And John Mayall.
So my you know, intro into harmonica really were the
with the British bands. And then I got into the
folk scene, you know, with the Dylan Dylan's playing in
the Neil Young.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
And John Sebastian.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
Yeah, and then later got into the blues, but I
never really had a.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
Blues gig, you know.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
But I became real close with Paul Butterfield, who kind
of mentored me for for many years. It was a
close friend, and he's my my favorite player. Telling why
is and phrasing.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Do you have a strict like no eating before you
play harmonic policy?
Speaker 7 (33:14):
Just brush your teeth?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, right, like you have to you have to have
something to eat after the show, you know, exactly.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
Yeah, No, I don't have a No, I don't really
say I don't drink.
Speaker 7 (33:28):
I did one time, No, but I was never really.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
You know, I think now I've just got to I
was saying, you got to get some sleep.
Speaker 7 (33:37):
That's a good thing to do.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
But then that's not even uh that doesn't even happen
every day, you know. But no, I just try to
I listened to Paul Butterfield before I play. There's a
song called there's an album called the Resurrection of pig
Boy Crabshaw, Okay, and uh, you know, I'll listen to
that just to pack me up before I play. So
that's kind of like the only ritual.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Do they ever go out of tune.
Speaker 7 (34:00):
Oh yeah, they go out tune all the time.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
They do. It's wood and metal rights wood.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
And there's a little brass read and if you can,
you can to tune them. You can file the reed
down and it shortens the red makes it vibrate faster,
so it'll go sharp.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
So you could you tune them. I don't you just
get a new it? I get it because it's a harmonic.
Speaker 7 (34:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's a harmonica, and you can find it's lazy.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
It's probably too hard to take it apart and file
it all.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
No, you can just unbolt it.
Speaker 6 (34:25):
I mean it's just a little screws and sometimes you know,
this is the comb the body of it. And I
have some custom made combs, so what I'll do sometimes
like they're either out of steel or coreon or some
kind of a special wood, and you can take them
apart and swap the reed plates the whole plate. The
reds are on a whole plate, so I can take
(34:45):
that off and if I like, what if I want
to keep the comb?
Speaker 7 (34:48):
Otherwise they're pretty disposable.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Do you go for like a fancy brand?
Speaker 6 (34:52):
Yeah, I have a well, well, Honer is the company
that I use I've always played.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Them, that's all I know.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
Yeah, yeah, and uh, but you can't get attached to
it like you could trigger. Yeah, you know, like you
put a guitar, some.
Speaker 7 (35:04):
Go out of you know, they do go out of tune.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
That's crazy. Do you have a bass harmonica?
Speaker 7 (35:09):
I do have. I didn't bring it though, but it's
on stage because we're using it tonight.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We're using it. That's my favorite when you play that,
that bass harmonica. Yeah, I forgot to bring it so cool. No,
it's okay. It kind of you like harken back to
your tube days when you play it.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
Yeah, right, do you play You play guitar.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Though, right, I play a little guitar. I don't play
with the Willies, right, No, I play piano in the Willies.
Speaker 6 (35:32):
That that I would put some boots, put some boots.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I play guitar. Yeah, I play guitar solos even, but
you know they're pretty pretty uh squarely.
Speaker 7 (35:44):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I you made did you never make an album until
that album?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Where?
Speaker 7 (35:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And that was just thousand and one or something.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
No, it was like nineteen eighty eight and some guys
were just head over a little cuss some label. Yeah,
and we just it was a guy that had played keyboard,
a d X seven actually, and we just turned on
the tape.
Speaker 7 (36:06):
Machine and just made up songs.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
That's awesome.
Speaker 6 (36:08):
And then Paul Butterfield came by one night to hang
out and he and I we just turned the mic
on and he and I.
Speaker 7 (36:13):
Just riffed off of each other.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
That's so fun.
Speaker 7 (36:15):
That was fun.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, you wanted to do this version from another album of.
Speaker 7 (36:21):
Oh I did somewhere, Well, I wanted to do one
of yours.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, but Somewhere of the Rainbow. You did that on
an album, The on the Hand of Mouth one. Did
you want to try it?
Speaker 7 (36:32):
Yeah, let's try that and be flat again.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, that's fine. Sorry, here, I'll do a palette cleanser.
There you go.
Speaker 6 (36:47):
So I should play the uh if I only had
a brain. And then he goes into Somewhere over the Rainbow.
Do you want to sing it?
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Or I've never sang Somewhere over the Rainbow? Not in
the at home you know what I mean. You were
asking me yesterday if it's a hard song to sing, yeah,
and I thought, oh, I can sing it. It's fine.
I know that song like the back of my hand.
Because you know everybody grew up on that. I've never
sang it.
Speaker 7 (37:11):
You want to try to sing it?
Speaker 6 (37:12):
And then and then I'll play the melody afterwards, and
they will end with if I.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Only okay, and I won't sing that one, okay.
Speaker 6 (37:19):
Yeah, because I just do the little riff you see.
Speaker 8 (37:52):
Way a land lad I've heard of once in.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Alone by.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Sound where.
Speaker 12 (38:16):
The rainbow.
Speaker 8 (38:19):
Birds fly, birds fly?
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Oh the rainbow?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Why game time?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Someday I wish upon a star wake up, where the clouds.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Of Bobby behind way were troubles.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
My life drops away upon.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
The ship Chops.
Speaker 12 (39:01):
That's where fly up, where the rainbow.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Blue bird fly bird fly?
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Oh, rain book? Why came tip.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
It long?
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Oh my gosh, I've never played that.
Speaker 7 (42:20):
It was fun. It's beautiful. What that may make me cry?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
What a deep song man? Right, isn't it crazy? It's
like one of those songs that just everybody knows. It's
so emotional, Right, It's just the sentiment of that song
and the nostalgia that everybody probably has their own personal
(42:46):
nostalgia with the movie.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
Yeah, And I'm just thinking, okay while I'm playing this, Okay,
do I want this at my funeral?
Speaker 7 (42:52):
Do I want this hit my wedding.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
I want what do you want to?
Speaker 7 (42:58):
It's just one of those songs.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
It's it's so spiritual, Yes, it is spirituals it's almost
like a gospel song. These are not chromatic heart harmonica.
Speaker 7 (43:08):
No, they're not.
Speaker 6 (43:09):
So some of the notes you have to do.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
You play chromatic harmonica very little. Yeah, it's a whole
other thing, right, it's.
Speaker 6 (43:19):
A whole other instrument. Oh wow, So you actually have
to know music? Do you have to be a You
have to know a musician. You have to be a
musician to play them. These are all mostly by year you.
So if I can hear a melody, I can play it.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (43:33):
A chromatic you can play anything. Really, No, especially if
you're a reader. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
On the chromatic, there's like a little is there a
do they just have every note? Actually, well you have.
Speaker 6 (43:42):
A little like I'd like to blow the first hole
blow it's a sea you put this, push the button in.
Speaker 7 (43:48):
It's a sea shark.
Speaker 5 (43:49):
So there's a button to change the note.
Speaker 6 (43:51):
Okay, raises at a half step. Yeah, So as you
knew all your scales, you could play anything. I guess
I wouldn't have to carry thirty forty.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, but thirty forty harmonicas fits in a tiny loop.
Speaker 6 (44:03):
Yeah, actual chromatic.
Speaker 7 (44:04):
You don't really bend though, it's so easily yeah chromatic.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, don't forget that. So you've lived fifty years on
the road pretty.
Speaker 7 (44:16):
Much pretty much.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
How many dates a year do you guys usually do?
Speaker 7 (44:22):
We used to do about one hundred. We're doing sixty
this year.
Speaker 6 (44:25):
Yeah, you know, and then there's days off too, so
it I mean it used to will it used to
go out maybe in the eighties, we'd go out ten
weeks at a.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Time, some ten weeks straight.
Speaker 7 (44:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (44:36):
Wow, I mean it's not so much fun anymore for
me anyway. Yeah, I'm over it.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Well, that's a long time to be out there, yeah,
for anybody, for anybody. Yeah, but in the eighties.
Speaker 7 (44:46):
Yeah, we were young and dumb and it was fun.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
And that's a lot though.
Speaker 7 (44:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (44:52):
I mean the bands lasted longer too than everybody's fan.
It's got to be hard on a family and kids.
I never had kids, and I think I was just
selfish enough to, uh, to keep the music career going,
you know, I just didn't want to leave.
Speaker 7 (45:05):
I can't imagine leaving, you know, kids at home.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, I don't think it means my imaginary kids doesn't
mean you're selfish, but yeah, I know it must have.
It's it's a it's a weird.
Speaker 7 (45:17):
You get home and your kids going, who are you?
Speaker 3 (45:18):
You know?
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah, yeah this week I'm gone one week and I
feel horrible, but it's crazy.
Speaker 6 (45:27):
Yeah, but they and then they get to see to
travel on the bus with you and yeah, and see.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
That's fine world. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (45:33):
Yeah, I think Willie took his kids.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
We went to Australia with the highwaymen and everybody brought
their kids.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Everybody.
Speaker 6 (45:40):
Chris brought all his kids, and Willie brought his kids,
you know, Micah and uh and Lucas.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 6 (45:47):
Remember I can't remember if it's Jody or which one
of Christofferson's kids. When we got to the airport in Sydney,
he was Uh. I got off the plane and there
was his kids just screaming and crying and stuff.
Speaker 7 (45:58):
It's like, what's going on?
Speaker 6 (45:59):
And Chris as well, We promised him at the bottom
of the world, and he thought he'd be upside down
walking around upside down.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
That's pretty funny.
Speaker 7 (46:09):
First big disappointment for that case.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Exactly. I took my kids all over the world when
they were really little, and they don't remember any of it.
Speaker 6 (46:19):
They remember, you.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Know, hotel rooms and the bus, but they don't remember
going to Japan or because they were just just young
enough to where they don't really remember it. It's pretty funny.
Speaker 6 (46:34):
Oh my gosh, but you grew up in Dallas.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
I grew up in Dallas. Yeah, I grew up in
I was born in New York, but moved to Dallas
when I was four, and then we moved to grape Vine.
We lived in grape Vine for about five or six years,
and then I moved to Dallas for high school because
I went to the Performing Arts High School in downtown.
Speaker 6 (46:55):
And who was at school with you then that they
came out of that? Did eric about you?
Speaker 1 (47:00):
She did come out of there, but she was older
than me, so I didn't go to school with her,
but she was like our hero. And Roy Hargrove went
to my school again older, but yeah, it was a
really doesn't just pass Yeah he passed away a few
years ago. Yeah, way too young. And actually Eadie brookel
went to my school.
Speaker 6 (47:20):
Yeah, yeah, she went to another also a high school
that that was kind of the high school next high
school over from me.
Speaker 7 (47:28):
I went to Hillcrest, had to like.
Speaker 5 (47:30):
Islands okay, cool?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Dallas.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Your accent always reminds me of family too. Oh really
well yeah, because it's like I feel like that Dallas
accent is very particular. People think of Texas as having
a Southern accent, but it's a different it's a.
Speaker 6 (47:46):
Different thing my family and my dad was German, German refugee,
so he had a heavy, heavy German accent really yeah,
which I never spoke any German. But my mom was
from New Orleans.
Speaker 7 (47:58):
Ah, well she might have had a Southern draw.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
That's a good mix.
Speaker 7 (48:02):
Yeah yeah, very musical.
Speaker 6 (48:06):
I mean New Orleans. There's so much music totally there.
And then my mom playing I'll never get it. I
mean Rhapsody in Blue is such a Do you play it?
Speaker 1 (48:13):
I mean I can fake like one part? Yeah, no,
I can't.
Speaker 7 (48:16):
Play I can't play it.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
I can't play like that, but.
Speaker 5 (48:21):
Nope, I can't.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Should we play another song?
Speaker 7 (48:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (48:29):
What do we?
Speaker 7 (48:30):
What do you want?
Speaker 11 (48:30):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (48:31):
Let's do?
Speaker 12 (48:31):
Uh?
Speaker 7 (48:32):
Which I was stumbling through your stuff, stumble on my.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Way, I know when you suggested that I had to
google if there was another song called stumble on my
Way that I didn't know because I couldn't believe that.
Speaker 7 (48:41):
You know, Yeah, I love this one.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
I love that. That's so sweet.
Speaker 7 (48:45):
Let me guess be flat.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yep, we can do it and see if you want.
Speaker 6 (48:50):
Don't be flat, okay, because I've already got there's that
that seventh that I like you.
Speaker 5 (48:54):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 6 (48:56):
So you know where the steel player steel comes in
kind of it says I'll kiss the dawn and now
I'll stumble on my way.
Speaker 7 (49:03):
I'm going to play a whole solo on that because
I just love that melody.
Speaker 5 (49:05):
Okay, let me just make sure I have where to
not play.
Speaker 7 (49:10):
Oh, just play anywhere, and then we'll just fake it.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Okay, just look at it.
Speaker 7 (49:15):
We don't want to know what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
We don't really want to know what we're doing. Will
you look at me if I if I'm supposed to
come back in?
Speaker 7 (49:21):
Oh? Okay, yeah, this is a weird song.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Wed.
Speaker 7 (49:24):
Yeah, you don't know when a verse ends?
Speaker 1 (49:25):
No, and I've actually never done it live. Oh well,
I mean I did it once for this live stream thing,
but I don't usually play this live.
Speaker 6 (49:33):
We'll just come in when I've been playing too much.
That's a good You know, we were playing one time
with because when you're playing, like with Willy or whatever,
in the kind of music we do, you take a verse.
I mean a soloist takes a verse. So I was
playing with Wit and Marsalis and they kept playing, you know,
you play three or four verses, and he said, you know,
or I play a verse and then pass it to
(49:54):
the next guy who wasn't playing yet.
Speaker 7 (49:56):
And when we would go do.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Another, Yeah, he wasn't keep going and keep going.
Speaker 7 (50:00):
Yeah, It's like I wasn't trying that way.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I know, it's a different thing. Yeah, I come from
the jazz world where I'm used to people doing that,
but yeah, I don't have enough vocabulary to keep going.
Speaker 5 (50:12):
I like to keep it short and simple.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Was that the Yeah, yeah, that was the Ray Charles songs, right.
Speaker 7 (50:24):
And when we would just riff or just played the solos.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Yeah, I remember. The piano player was so good. But
I was so jealous because I was like, I wanted
to play piano so bad on all those Ray Charles songs.
That was fun. There's video of that online.
Speaker 7 (50:38):
This is one of my favorite songs.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
You're so nice. I appreciate that above the cloud, I
found place acking without a trace, wondering.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
I candans ways all of the blue out into space.
You hold me. I can't come down until after myself around.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
The sun is fayy into I.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
All of your beards and all elive is almost gone,
a passing, and I never know what don't mean.
Speaker 13 (52:22):
I'll sing the song I have a time, and I'm
holding on.
Speaker 4 (52:36):
To what is my.
Speaker 13 (52:41):
But I'll kiss the.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Doll of a neon day and then I'll still bood.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
My way, I sang, so.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
I'll have a time.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
I'm home now.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
To what is bad. I'll the do.
Speaker 8 (54:04):
Of on day and then ousta.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Way and then.
Speaker 8 (54:24):
Way.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
That's so beautiful. You gotta come sitting with me sometimes
No way, way, no way, no way, you gotta come.
Speaker 7 (54:52):
I told you we have to do the European tour.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
We should for sure. I got a great band right now.
It would be so fun.
Speaker 7 (54:58):
Yeah. I love that steel player Dan Dan.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
I eat he's on tour with me this summer.
Speaker 7 (55:02):
Well are you using what's the drummer's name that same blade? Oh?
Using Brian?
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (55:07):
Oh wow, I've never played with him.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Oh he's he's amazing.
Speaker 7 (55:10):
Yeah, yeah, I saw the podcast with him.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
Oh yeah, that was fun. He's an incredible singer, so
it was fun. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (55:19):
Yeah, I definitely want to come and play. You should
and now we've got it on.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Tape, so well anytime. I mean, I've known you for
twenty years. Come on.
Speaker 6 (55:27):
Well, you know, I didn't want to push myself, you know, anytime.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Anytime, we'll do this song and many others. Well, this
was so fun.
Speaker 7 (55:38):
Yeah for me too, this is great. And it's nine
thirty in the morning.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
It was what time, ten thirty.
Speaker 6 (55:44):
That's pretty good for you to get up for one
and then to be able to sing at this time
of day too.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
I feel like singing early is not so hard. It
kind of is dusty in it in the nighttime way,
you know what I mean. Should we do one song
to take us out?
Speaker 7 (55:58):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 5 (55:59):
Playing music is so so fun.
Speaker 7 (56:01):
It is fun, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
I printed out I brought my guitar in case you
wanted to do like so Loansome. I could cry, or
we could do that blue song.
Speaker 7 (56:11):
Oh, come under the Robert Johnson, the Robert Johnson. Yeah,
let's try that.
Speaker 6 (56:14):
I have never played it.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
I've actually never played it either, but with Delaney and
Bonnie I didn't know that version, and is that it's
like it's but.
Speaker 7 (56:24):
It's just a I listened to the Robert Johnson one too.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Oh well, I grew up on that one for sure.
But I like the fat, the groove kind of faster.
Speaker 7 (56:32):
Like, okay, we can do whatever.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Yeah, be flat, no, let's do let's switch it.
Speaker 7 (56:38):
It really doesn't matter. I mean, that's actually a good key.
You know, what's a bad key for the harmonica is.
Speaker 6 (56:42):
D because I need a G harmonica and it's really
low and it doesn't interesting. I mean, it's not a
bad key, it just doesn't it's not as fluid, it
doesn't cut as much. I mean, but I never get
to play the E flat harmonica, which is in B flat.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Is that what you want to do?
Speaker 7 (57:01):
Yea's stay in that key.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
We're just gonna keep this whole podcast, this whole episode
is just going to be and be flat before all right,
one more palette cleanser.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Now about.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
I'm gonna let you sort of like do more of
the rhythmic stuff and it I'll come in on it.
Speaker 5 (57:29):
But maybe you started I don't remember that.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Maybe you just it's just cool if you started it.
Speaker 7 (57:37):
I feel like, okay, come on in my kitchen. Is
that doing?
Speaker 2 (58:04):
Oh man, I love.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Took from my best friend. Some joker gotta lucky stole
him back again.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
You better come on in my.
Speaker 1 (58:19):
Kitchen because he's going.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
To be rain and outdoors. Now she's gone. Oh I
know he won't come back.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
He took the last nickel from my nation's side.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
You better come on.
Speaker 8 (58:48):
In my kitchen because he is gone to be rain
in outdoors. We're getting in trouble. Everybody throws me down.
(59:32):
Look for my good friend. None can be found. You
better come on in my kitchen because he's gone.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
He'll be raining now where the time's coming. It's gonna
(01:00:20):
be slow.
Speaker 8 (01:00:23):
Can make a winner vas giant long.
Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
So you better come on in my kitchen because it's
gone to be made in outdoors.
Speaker 8 (01:00:41):
You better come on.
Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
In my kitchen.
Speaker 8 (01:00:46):
Because he's going to be made outdoors.
Speaker 7 (01:01:01):
It's great.
Speaker 6 (01:01:02):
I love how you when you're playing, you're not playing
a straight rhythm, that they're these missing beats that you
feel the beat anyway.
Speaker 7 (01:01:09):
But it's just so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
I wasn't sure what to do, and then when I
started playing, I thought, oh no, I shouldn't play at
all because you were doing the rhythm. So then I
started trying to do like just some weird high stuff.
Speaker 7 (01:01:22):
No. I was thinking, God, you've been practicing this forever.
Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
You must have just like Nope, I try to practice
this because we talked about doing it and I realized
it's not the kind of song to really I couldn't
really figure out how to practice it.
Speaker 7 (01:01:38):
I like practicing like that, I mean, learn doing stuff spontaneous.
Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
But that's how I that's how I've always been. I'm
much better that way, and I like that. Well, that's
kind of like the fly by the seat of your
pants when I sang with Willy, and you know, I
think that's the best way.
Speaker 7 (01:01:52):
Yeah, because I think over you know, over rehearsing and stuff.
Speaker 6 (01:01:55):
I mean, I usually my best take if I'm in
the studio is the first.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
It's the first, right, Yeah, I know, me too.
Speaker 7 (01:02:01):
And I keep trying to get back to that play it.
The further I get away from it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Well, that's why that's why like Redheaded Strangers so amazing,
because it's it's not overthought.
Speaker 7 (01:02:14):
It's or overplayed. I mean there's so much space on.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
That, so much space, and I mean the concept is thought,
but the playing is just comes out of you, and
that's that's the best.
Speaker 7 (01:02:25):
And you hit the stack of napkins.
Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
That's amazing in front of him. Yeah, I had to.
I mean, I've known this song forever, but I had
to google Nation Sack that the lyric in this song.
I took the last nickel from her Nation Sack. I
had to google it. It's like an old timy thing.
It's like a purse. It's like a little satchel that
(01:02:50):
you put your coins and stuff in. But you women,
I guess, used to have them around their waist under
their skirts.
Speaker 5 (01:02:56):
Ah, this is what the Internet told me, so I
could be right.
Speaker 7 (01:03:00):
Then it must be right, it must be right.
Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
And then and then it said that, and then prostitutes
started using them because the jingling would attract customers. So
I had to I had to google that word and
then decide how I was gonna sing that line.
Speaker 7 (01:03:14):
A good name for a band Nation Sack, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:03:16):
I'm not so sure. Well, anyway, I love you so much.
Speaker 7 (01:03:23):
This is I love you too, and this is this
has been fun.
Speaker 6 (01:03:27):
We really, I mean, I've known you for so long
and we never really sat and played no, because you know,
they've been trying to keep us apart.
Speaker 7 (01:03:33):
That's what it is, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Willie Heck yeah, man, Yeah, I mean I'm just you
mean a lot to me, and musically you mean a
lot to me. Even before I met you and being
friends for twenty years and feeling like I'm part of
that were like family, you know, even though we don't
(01:03:55):
see each other, sometimes it feels really special to me.
Speaker 6 (01:03:58):
I mean, I cannot talk to you for you and
then pick up on the conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
We're just talking about love and and sleep and everything,
and it's I don't know, it's specially You're very special
to me. So I love you very much. Thanks for
being my friend.
Speaker 7 (01:04:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (01:04:13):
Nick makes a pleasure and a privilege.
Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
I'm just playing love.
Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Oh yeah, it's just sweetheart. He's the best musically and conversationally. Yeah,
he's just he's family, like a warm hug.
Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
Is that weird to say?
Speaker 7 (01:04:33):
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
He's the best. Thanks Mickey for joining us, and thank
you for joining us and listening along. Yeah, just listening
alone with me.
Speaker 5 (01:04:45):
Don't forget to like and subscribe, li.
Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
And subscribe and subscribe so you don't miss an EPISO.
If you're wondering what songs we played in this episode.
The first song was called night Life by Willie Nelson.
It's the song from nineteen sixty second song is Helped
(01:05:10):
Me Make It through the Night, written by Chris Christofferson
in nineteen seventy. The third song was Over the Rainbow
and If I Only Had a Brain, both from the
nineteen thirty nine film The Wizard of a haz songs
were written by Harold Arland and lyrics by Ya Prberg.
The fourth song was a request of Mickey's and it
(01:05:31):
is my song called Stumble on My Way from the
Pick Me Up Off the Floor album. The fifth song
we did was the old blue song by Robert Johnson
called come On in My Kitchen from the nineteen thirties.
The session was recorded at night Bird Recording Studios in
Los Angeles. Engineered by Colton Lakey and assisted by Louis
(01:05:55):
Sanchez Navarro, mixed by Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda.
Additional engineering by Greg Tobler and Matt Marinelli. Artwork by
Eliza Frye. Photography by Shervin Linez. Produced by Norah Jones
and Sarah Oda.
Hey, I'm Norah Jones and today I'm playing along with
Mickey Raphael.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm just playing with you. I'm just playing a lone
with you.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
There, I'm Norah and with me as always Sarah Oda. Here,
I am welcome to the show. Welcome.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Our guest today is a legendary harmonica player, Mickey Raphael.
Speaker 5 (00:30):
Oh it's family times this episode.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
If you don't know his name, you probably could recognize
his signature harmonica sound as he's contributed to performances and
recordings of so many artists such as Chris Christofferson, Emmy
Lou Harris, Neil Young.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Elton, John Ray, Charles Bob.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Dylan, John Prime, Solomon Burke, Alison Kraus, and many many more.
And this year he's celebrating fifty years of playing and
touring with one of our absolute favorites, Willie new Nelson.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Fifty years. He's played with Willie Nelson for fifty years.
It's crazy. And I met Mickey in somewhere in two
thousand and two, the first time I opened for Willie.
And he's been a good friend for god over twenty
years now, which is crazy time. Is a funny thing
(01:24):
we happened to be in La in April for Willie
Nelson's ninetieth birthday party, which was a crazy two day
show at the Hollywood Bowl, And I get to spend
all week hanging out with Mickey and eating breakfast with him,
and he agreed to do this show with me. So
we had so much fun just talking and playing songs,
(01:45):
and I learned a lot about him that I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
And this episode really runs the gamut. I mean, you're
gonna hear songs that are familiar, You're going to learn
about his instrument, the harmonica, and hear some great stories from.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
The road, oh yeah, the road, the road.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And we happen to record this episode at night in
the morning because because he had rehearsals all day for
Willie's birthday shows, and it was kind of tricky fitting
this in actually, but we started this session at night
in the morning, which is not normal for musicians with
an appropriate song. Yeah, so please enjoy this episode with
(02:23):
Mickey Rafael.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I'm just playing love Weesday.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Have you ever done night live at nine thirty in
the morning, Well, it's.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
That's the perfect time because because you just come on
my way home.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, so we'll pretend We've been out up all night, all.
Speaker 7 (02:41):
Night binge watching Breaking Bad.
Speaker 8 (03:12):
When the evening son gos Dave, You're gonna find.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Me hanging round.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Nine life.
Speaker 8 (03:27):
Ain't no good life, but it's my life. Many people
just like me, dreaming of all used to be.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Nine life.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
There ain't no.
Speaker 8 (03:56):
Good but it's my life, This says blues blind.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Listen to what the blues I say. Mine is just
another scene.
Speaker 9 (04:38):
From the world, a broken dream, my love.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I ain't no good.
Speaker 10 (04:50):
Life, Oh but it's my life.
Speaker 11 (05:31):
Listening in the blue who's a blade? Listening where the blue.
Speaker 9 (05:50):
Lasty man is just another scene a little broken rage,
not love and.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Long good.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
But it is mine.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Oh my god, you're sound so good. How many times
do you think you play that song over the years?
Speaker 6 (06:36):
God, fifty years, fifty years. Yeah, I'll be next week
it'll be fifty years with Willy.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
So this is a whole other anniversary week too. Yeah,
so it says ninetieth birthday tomorrow.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
My I have fifty years for me and the first
fifty years, the.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
First fifty years, the fifty years with Willy. Yeah, that's incredible.
How did you guys hook up? I don't know the story, really,
I don't really know it.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
Well, I was playing. I was in Dallas, playing with B. W. Stevenson,
who was of a folky you know, folks singer at
the time. And how's this story go? So I get
a call from Darryl Royal, who was the coach of
the University of Texas football team. And I wasn't a big,
you know, a sports fan, but I knew who the
coach was. I mean, the stadium in Austin is named
(07:24):
after him. And he was a close friend of Willie's
and a patron of the arts and loved music. And
so he called and said, after the ballgame, you know,
I think they were playing Arkansas in Dallas, and he said,
We're gonna have a little picking party in my hotel room.
Why don't you get your harmonicas and come over and
meet some of my friends, and you know, I want
to meet you. So I went and Willy was there,
(07:45):
and Charlie Pride was there, and you know, about thirty
people in the room and they just sat and passed
the guitar back and forth to each other, and I
had my harmonicas and I really didn't know anything about Willy.
I had one Willie record because we were on our
CAA and I was able to go into the vault
and grab any guess who album I wanted, you know.
So there was this album called Willie and Family and
(08:05):
it had everybody, you know, Willie and all the band
and their families around a bonfire at his farm in
a ridgetop and I thought, this is such an interesting album,
you know. So I got it, and I knew the songs.
I'm going to recognized, you know, some of.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
The songs and they were all his songs or there were.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Some covers on that on that album. But that that's
my first you know, intro into Willie. And then when
he was sitting on the floor of this hotel room
playing night Live and funny how time SIPs away, so
he's crazy, just sitting on the floor with his guitar,
and I thought, oh, so that's who this guy is,
you know. And funny story about that album cover because
(08:46):
it was just, you know, it's just like twenty people
around the campfire in the woods. And I was asking Paul,
you know Willi's drummer of many years, I said, so
I can, Paul English, I said, I know.
Speaker 7 (08:56):
Here's be the bass player.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
And there's Willy, and there's Willie's why and kids and
his daughter, And I said, I named everybody but one guy.
I said, who is this one guy? I don't recognize?
And Paul looked at him and goes, well, don't know either.
He just walked in from out of the woods. Yeah,
which is a typical Willie.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
That's very funny. Yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So when he was playing like crazy in nightlife and
that night on the hotel room floor, was that before
those songs were recorded.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
No, they were recorded seventy three, so I'd heard him,
but I'd heard BB King's version or Wreatha Franklin's version,
and then you know, I just sat in with I mean,
I was playing, you know, doodling around on the harmonica,
trying to keep up with him, and and I think
he played Mountain Dew that was another song he played,
and he's will He said, hey, you know, if you
ever hear we're playing anywhere, come see, you know, come
(09:48):
sit in. And there were I saw a couple of
weeks later they were doing a benefit in Lancaster, you know,
which is right south of Dallas, and it was for
a volunteer fire department at the Junior High. So I
went and drove down there and they're set up on
the basketball court, you know, the drums.
Speaker 7 (10:07):
I think I think Bobby was there.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
There might have been a piano, because later on sometimes
we'd get to a gig and there's no piano.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Oh yeah, so what did she do? She just wouldn't play.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, yeah, there was no calling in a keyboard and
then finding a.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
Piano, sidy to bring a piano over to the gym.
So I was just playing, you know, sat in with
him and I think we played that song fra Auleine
about four times because people wanted to dance.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
I mean we were playing a dance really.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
And then afterwards we went to a truck stop, which
is what you do at two am, you know, for breakfast,
and had breakfast and talked and I was getting ready
to leave and drive back to Dallas, and I thought,
I'll have one more cup of coffee, and in that
last cup, Willie goes, well, we're going to play in
New York in a couple of months. Why don't you
go with us? And they were playing Maxis Kansas City,
which was that you know, the punk club in New York,
(10:59):
and you know, so I said sure, I'll go and
that was it.
Speaker 7 (11:02):
That was it.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
Yeah, well I was starting. There's still a few weeks
before that show happened. So I would find out where
they were playing and drive down to the gig and
just sit in with them.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
They didn't have a bus.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
Everybody was like taking their own cars to these gigs. Yeah,
And after a couple of weeks, Willie asked Paul, He said,
what are we paying Mickey, And Paul says, we're not
paying them anything. You're just sitting in and Willie goes, well,
double the salary.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
So you were just waiting. You're just hoping, I know,
you get paid for this, you know, you just having fun, well,
just having fun.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
And I thought it might be because I was this little
hippie kid from Dallas, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
With big hair, big hair, long hair.
Speaker 6 (11:39):
Yeah, and I thought it'd be fun to play in
a country western band.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
You know.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
We played these gigs, these clubs that I couldn't go
in by myself.
Speaker 7 (11:47):
I mean, I have to wait.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
We'd park in the parking lot b too, because they
had long hair, and we wait for Paul to get there,
who was heavily armed, and he would we'd all walk
in together.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Wow, that's insane.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
Yeah, it was crazy. This is yeah nineteen seventy three,
you know, so of all the hippies. And that's one
thing that Willy really did, or that the music was
so famous for, is getting the you know, the rednecks
and the hippies together together.
Speaker 7 (12:12):
Yeah. But yeah, music was a common bond.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
That's great.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
That's always been his magic power.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:20):
But some of these joints, man, there was Big G's
was one of them. And that was the win Around
Rock Texas North.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Austin, Okay, I know around Rock Yeah, well.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
It's really beautiful now, it's really developed. This was, you know,
just like a tin building totally.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
You grew up in Dallas.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
I grew up in Dallas. What part, Well, it was
North Dallas when I was there. Right now it's almost
the center of the city, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
But they're Preston uh, Preston Royal, Preston Royal, between Preston
Royal and Preston Center. And there was this little bar,
this little Italian restaurant that my mom used to go
to all the time called Popolo's. And I heard a
vicious rumor that you were the piano player.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
I was, but she doesn't remember me.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
She did, she didn't remember.
Speaker 7 (13:04):
I have cousins that went there.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
And do remember you later, Yeah, they do. Really, that's crazy.
That was like in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
Eight, Yeah, because you were still in North Texas and
your record hadn't come out yet.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
It hadn't come out. I mean, yeah, I didn't even
know what I was doing yet. I was just playing
this weekend gig at Popolo's. But that place had been
there a long time then, kind.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Of yeah, I mean because I was in and out
of town. I mean I left in seventy seventy three
when I went to work with Willie, But I come
back and see my folks, yeah, know, and they were there, man,
you know for forever.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
That's crazy. So when did you did you record with Willie?
What was the was he just always recording and writing?
Speaker 6 (13:47):
Well, he left Nashville because he was, you know, just
got tired of the Nashville scene, and.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
So he had done.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
When I went to work with him, he had just
finished Phases the Stages, which was a great record that
Jerry Wexler produced, and then he a year or so
after that, he came up and said, I've got an
idea for an album I want to do, and he
had all the lyrics on Napkins, you know, and I
think he had driven back from from Colorado and wrote
this this concepts its concept album, you know. So it's
(14:19):
a whole kind of uh you know, stream of consciousness
idea I have. And I had been doing jingles and
commercials and stuff in Dallas. So he asked me to
find a studio and we went to the studio in Garland, Texas,
which is I think north or northeast of Dallas, and
went in for a couple of days and cut Redheaded Strangers.
So that was the first record I played on.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
That's what I thought.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
And we just sat in a circle in a small
little studio and Willie would play the songs and that
records so sparse one because that's his style, but two
we're hearing the songs for the first time.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It was it's I mean, it's one of my favorites forever.
And it was just you and Willie and Bobby, Jody
and be Jody Pain b Spears, Bobby, Bobby.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
Nelson, and then uh a friend of Willie's, Bucky Metis,
played guitar on a couple of things.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
It's jazz guitar player from Houston.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
That's amazing. I mean, that's like the sound of my childhood,
really it is. And and to me, you know, Willie
is so willy, but he is also the sound of Willie,
you know from from He's done so much, but the
sound of you and Bobby and b spears and and
(15:34):
Paul's not on that record.
Speaker 7 (15:35):
Paul there too.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
There's some there's sometimes on it, but it's just like
super Light.
Speaker 6 (15:40):
They had a whole kid, but I think he just
played again. We're just hearing this for the first time,
and the songs were so just kind of spare, and
that was Willie's.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah thing, they didn't need a whole kid. But but
then Paul English would do that on stage with you
guys were he would just do He just played a snare.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
After a while, that was it. We had all a
camp several for twenty years or so. And then towards
the end or the last ten or fifteen years, he
went down to a snare.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
But it had such a vibe and yeah, he could
pull it off too, he could. And there I don't know,
it's just the sound of Bobby on the piano has
been such a big influence to me truly, and I
didn't even know when it was influencing me when I
was younger that it was her, you know what I mean,
(16:29):
Like it was before I really looked at the album
credits or thought.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
About that stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I just knew Willie, And as I got to know
you guys over the years, I couldn't believe, like it
was like meeting family. The first show I did with
you guys was the film at the Film Moore in
San Francisco, and I think it didn't hit me until
that moment. Well, I had seen you guys play when
I was in high school. Actually, oh really, I probably
(16:55):
realized that then. Yeah. I went to interlock in Arts
camp there too. Yeah, I know, I saw you fifteen. Yeah,
I was like fifteen and I saw you and I
was like, holy crap, this is Redheaded Stranger band. And
I didn't realize it. And so when I got to
open for you guys, it was like meeting family, meeting
(17:16):
you and hearing you play and hearing Bobby play, and
it was just so crazy.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
It's so funny because you know, everybody's like, oh, that
that cute little Nora.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
She's so good.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Does she have a record deal, and I think you
had the biggest record on the planet at the time. No,
I didn't yet the record.
Speaker 7 (17:31):
Was now No.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I think when I opened for you guys at the
film More it was for four nights. I didn't have drums.
I was just doing like a trio with guitar and
bass and a WHIRLI because I didn't use Bobby's piano
or anything. And I think I I my record was
about to come out. It was like a month awa.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
We were all there watching and that's something that nobody
ever really leased.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
The bus.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
So yeah, well that's amazing. And I remember it was
maybe you said, do you want to come with Willy?
I'm not sure who it was, and I said, yeah,
but I haven't met him yet. This is the fourth night,
so I hadn't met him Night one, night two, night three.
This is my memory of it anyway. And then night before,
(18:12):
you want to come sing with Willy? I was like, yeah,
but I haven't met him yet. It was like this huge,
like weird. I was like, how am I going to
sing with him if I haven't met him? When am
I going to meet him? Doesn't matter? I was told,
just it's no big deal. Just come up on stage,
he'll announce you. I was like, but is this security
guard kind of like tackle me. I was so confused. Yeah,
(18:33):
and you guys all welcomed me and told me it
was fine, and he announced me. I came on stage
and that's the first time I met him, and we sang.
Helped me make it through the night.
Speaker 6 (18:42):
Oh, I didn't realize that's what it was. So wasn't
even the gospel stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
No, I don't know that. Somebody just said maybe that
song and suggested it, and that's what we did. And
he just looked at me when it was time for
me to sing and nodded, and I sang, and then
he said and then he'd look at me and nod
and I'd sing, and then he'd sing harmonies, and then
we both go for the same harmony, and then we
(19:06):
both switched to the You know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
That's why he works, because if you would have rehearsed
the song that afternoon, it would have been nothing like
the rehearsal that night. So you just kind of kind
of have to watch him. And you know, he's been
a bandleader.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
For so long.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, he watches I mean, he will lead it perfectly
and it was. I mean, I was on Cloud nine
and you're playing the harmonica, and I was like, this
is the sound of my favorite album of all time
right here.
Speaker 6 (19:34):
What a great writer Chris is too. I mean, for
Willie to do another writer's song well, and he.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Did so many other writers songs and such a great
ones that that song is.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
I think will is just a fan of great writing too,
of course, being a great writer himself, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, So I'm going to do help me make it
through the night at the Tomorrow night at the ninetieth.
So I'm excited about that because it's the first song
I sang with you all.
Speaker 7 (20:01):
You want to try it for fun?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (20:02):
I mean I haven't played it with you, so I
don't think I've even played it.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Should we try it that?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (20:07):
I mean, tape is.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Cheap, you know, yeah, man, let's do it.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
I do everything in B flat.
Speaker 7 (20:12):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So Chris Christofferson, I got to do one of those
Johnny Cash tributes with him after after Johnny Cash died,
I did this other I did a show with him
for Elvis Costello had this like songwriter pull show for
a while and we.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
Rehearsed this song.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I wrote a melody to these Hank Williams lyrics that
Bob Dylan had. This is like maybe fifteen years ago.
He was trying to curate some music to these found
Hank Williams lyrics that were never recorded, and so we
were doing this tune and it was a three part
harmony with me and Chris and Elvis Costello. The song's
(20:56):
called how Many Times Have You Broken My Heart?
Speaker 6 (20:59):
And it was your song or.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Well it was it was Hank william lyric, Hank William's
lyric that he that nobody ever heard the music too.
So they had me do the music to this one,
which was good. I mean, it was so fun and
weird and beautiful. The lyrics are so beautiful, and so
it was a three part harmony and we rehearsed it
and rehearse it because it was a little it's a
(21:22):
little tricky the harmony, and Elvis is a great singer,
and Chris was really intent on like making it right,
and it was really great at soundcheck, and then during
the show I think Elvis kind of like went to
the wrong note a couple of times, and so after
the show, I said, Chris, that was so awesome, thank
you for singing with me. You know, he goes, he
(21:42):
stole my note.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
I love that that cract.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Well, if you make a mistake, do it again, do
it twice, and it's not a mistake.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
No, totally, but three part harmony.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
It's tricky.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
And I told him before we went out to I said, have.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
A great have a great show. He goes, don't tell
me what to do.
Speaker 7 (22:04):
That's Chris is so sweet.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
No, he's so sweet. It was just his the lines
I'll never forget, and it just made me laugh. But
I'm so excited.
Speaker 6 (22:14):
I'm glad we're rehearsing this because I haven't done it
with you or even played it.
Speaker 7 (22:18):
In a while.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
So will you have it?
Speaker 8 (22:19):
Okay, take the ribbon from me eyes, shake it loose,
(22:56):
and let it fall, laying soft against my skin. Mm hmmm,
like shadows on the wall.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Come and lay down by my side till the early morning.
In life.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
All I'm taking is your time. Help me make it
through life.
Speaker 8 (23:48):
I don't care who's had on.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And I won't child to understand.
Speaker 8 (24:04):
Let the devil take tomorrow, custo.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Night need fair.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yesterday he is day, and tomorrow's out of sight.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
And it's sad to be alone. Help me make it through.
Speaker 12 (24:46):
Night?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Mm hmm, I don't care whose dare.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I don't turn, don't under stay.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Let the devil take tomorrow because tonight I need a phrase.
Speaker 8 (25:52):
Yesterdayday and tomorrow's out of side.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And it's sad.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
Belone, help me Maggie through the night.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I don't want to be alone. Help me Maggie through.
Speaker 7 (26:44):
I pad for the first time.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
No, how did you start playing the harmonica? When did
this happen? Grown up in Dallas.
Speaker 6 (26:54):
Yeah, well, a friend of my dad's gave me a harmonica.
He played washtub bass. Okay, but dad's attorney and they
would get together. My dad wasn't musical, but my mom
played piano. We had a piano in the house, and
I would come home from school in the afternoons and
she'd be playing gersh when she's playing Rhapsody in Blue,
oh wow, And I could just remember that. And that's
(27:14):
how she could kind of just escape from me and
my brother. And Yes, So I grew up around music,
you know, and wanted to be a musician. I had
a guitar, but I just didn't put the time in.
You know, you can't just wake up. I figured I
could wake up and know how to play it.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, that's like a kid.
Speaker 7 (27:33):
But the harmonica.
Speaker 6 (27:35):
My dad's friend gave me a a owner Marine band
and said, if you can play O Susanna, if you
learn to play oh Susanna, I'll give you this harmonica.
So I did, you know, and I got the harmonica
and then just kind of carried around. It's just one
of those instruments you can take with you anywhere.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
That's true.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
It's much easier, yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:53):
Than a guitar.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:54):
And I just you know, played it all the time.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
Just you know, during school or at school during lunch,
I'd walk around the track and just by myself and
just kind of play the harmonica, you know, kind of
as a little escape. And because in school I played
I was in the marching band and I played the tuba.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Oh my god.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
So that was the way to get away from that thing,
you know, which I wish I still played it. I
think they just needed somebody to carry carry it and
the well, actually they did. They came to my gym
class and said, you know, came to Pe and they
said we need a volunteer.
Speaker 7 (28:31):
We'll let you out of Pe.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
And I was a terrible athlete and hated, you know,
hated sports. So I just raised my hand, not knowing
what I was getting into, and they took me to
the band room and set me at a big sousaphone,
you know the one that wraps around you, and just
said make some noise on it. And the guy, the
teacher told me how to you know, just do you
know oompah stuff, and had all the charts were written
(28:55):
out with the fingerings on the valves, three valves, so
it might be, uh, you know, one.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
And three, one and two, two and three, one and.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
Two, and I just kind of read those numbers and
I kind of knew enough to go, you know, to
play a bass line. But but even if the music
wasn't precise, they needed somebody out there carrying that tuba
with a wool uniform on. So there was there was
my exercise right the in Texas.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I've been there. I've been there, marching band in Texas. Yeah,
it's hell, I mean, it's just so hot. I can't
believe you did that.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
It's like, well, we don't just get out there and
do the formations with the tuba, don't worry about playing.
Speaker 7 (29:43):
So when I could pick up.
Speaker 6 (29:44):
The harmonica, the first epiphany or the main one was
I went to this little club. I was hanging out,
this folk club in Dallas called the Rubiot, and Michael
Murphy played.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
There, Jerre J. F.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
Walker and Ray Wiley Hubbard, all these you know Texas folkies.
And there was a guy named Donnie Brooks who was
a harmonica player from Dallas.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
And when I heard him play, it just blew me away.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
Wow. He ended up going on to play with Whalon
about this a little before I was starting to play
with Willie, So he kind of set the uh set
the bar anyway for harmonica with country music. Other than
you know, Charlie McCoy, they weren't. I think Charlie was
really the only one doing it. Yeah, Donnie moved to
New York and was doing a lot of jingles. But
he set me down. You know, I met him and
(30:28):
I told him I was a big fan and won
learning how to play the harmonica. And he set me
down outside this club, the Rubiot and wrote out on
a napkin how to play a donnic diatonic scale, or
just how the notes were laid down on the harmonica.
It's like, uh, draw hole number one below two three,
draw three four, and you know, and that's that's the
basics for everything I played. Yeah, so he was a
(30:52):
big influence, and that's that's that's when I was hooked.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
And I would go to concerts and bring my harmonica
with me, and I remember were seeing Canned heat play
and I went home and pulled out the harmonica and
I was able to bend a note or play a
blues lick just accidentally.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
I just stumbled on this lick I heard that night.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
So I'm like, wait, during the gig or after no after.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
The game, when I went home and I thought, oh,
that was a lick I heard tonight. And ironically their
big hit was on the Road again.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
Oh wow, a different on the road again, a different one.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Okay, we do that again. Why is that so awesome?
It's just so awesome, right, you must have felt so
good when you did it.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:33):
I was like, oh, wait a minute, there's a pattern here,
there's a method to this.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah wow. So how long did it take till you
had every key?
Speaker 7 (31:41):
Oh? Till I had every key? Yeah, it was a
little while.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
It went till it made use of I mean, it
made sense for me to have more than one key
and then I started doing these sessions in Dallas. I
met Smoking Montgomery who ran a studio some of Burnett
I don't know if you know the and I would
go there. He'd have me come by after school and
I'd sit in the lobby and there'd be people doing
demos all day long and this, and the engineer would go,
(32:05):
you need a harmonica.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
Player, and then they'd call me in.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
So I kind of learned to, you know, my way
around the studio by just doing these, you know, sessions
for five bucks.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
A song that's so cool. Did you play a lot
of blues stuff?
Speaker 6 (32:18):
No, I really didn't grow up on blues till later,
you know. Really, yeah, it was well again, I was.
I was really influenced by the by the English invasion. Yeah, so, uh,
you know Brian Jones and uh uh you know played
harmonica with the Stones, and there was a guy named
Duster Bennett who was like a skiffle band. I mean,
(32:38):
well he was a one man band. And John Mayall.
So my you know, intro into harmonica really were the
with the British bands. And then I got into the
folk scene, you know, with the Dylan Dylan's playing in
the Neil Young.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
And John Sebastian.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
Yeah, and then later got into the blues, but I
never really had a.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
Blues gig, you know.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
But I became real close with Paul Butterfield, who kind
of mentored me for for many years. It was a
close friend, and he's my my favorite player. Telling why
is and phrasing.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Do you have a strict like no eating before you
play harmonic policy?
Speaker 7 (33:14):
Just brush your teeth?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, right, like you have to you have to have
something to eat after the show, you know, exactly.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
Yeah, No, I don't have a No, I don't really
say I don't drink.
Speaker 7 (33:28):
I did one time, No, but I was never really.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
You know, I think now I've just got to I
was saying, you got to get some sleep.
Speaker 7 (33:37):
That's a good thing to do.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
But then that's not even uh that doesn't even happen
every day, you know. But no, I just try to
I listened to Paul Butterfield before I play. There's a
song called there's an album called the Resurrection of pig
Boy Crabshaw, Okay, and uh, you know, I'll listen to
that just to pack me up before I play. So
that's kind of like the only ritual.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Do they ever go out of tune.
Speaker 7 (34:00):
Oh yeah, they go out tune all the time.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
They do. It's wood and metal rights wood.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
And there's a little brass read and if you can,
you can to tune them. You can file the reed
down and it shortens the red makes it vibrate faster,
so it'll go sharp.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
So you could you tune them. I don't you just
get a new it? I get it because it's a harmonic.
Speaker 7 (34:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's a harmonica, and you can find it's lazy.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
It's probably too hard to take it apart and file
it all.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
No, you can just unbolt it.
Speaker 6 (34:25):
I mean it's just a little screws and sometimes you know,
this is the comb the body of it. And I
have some custom made combs, so what I'll do sometimes
like they're either out of steel or coreon or some
kind of a special wood, and you can take them
apart and swap the reed plates the whole plate. The
reds are on a whole plate, so I can take
(34:45):
that off and if I like, what if I want
to keep the comb?
Speaker 7 (34:48):
Otherwise they're pretty disposable.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Do you go for like a fancy brand?
Speaker 6 (34:52):
Yeah, I have a well, well, Honer is the company
that I use I've always played.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Them, that's all I know.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
Yeah, yeah, and uh, but you can't get attached to
it like you could trigger. Yeah, you know, like you
put a guitar, some.
Speaker 7 (35:04):
Go out of you know, they do go out of tune.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
That's crazy. Do you have a bass harmonica?
Speaker 7 (35:09):
I do have. I didn't bring it though, but it's
on stage because we're using it tonight.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We're using it. That's my favorite when you play that,
that bass harmonica. Yeah, I forgot to bring it so cool. No,
it's okay. It kind of you like harken back to
your tube days when you play it.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
Yeah, right, do you play You play guitar.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Though, right, I play a little guitar. I don't play
with the Willies, right, No, I play piano in the Willies.
Speaker 6 (35:32):
That that I would put some boots, put some boots.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I play guitar. Yeah, I play guitar solos even, but
you know they're pretty pretty uh squarely.
Speaker 7 (35:44):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I you made did you never make an album until
that album?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Where?
Speaker 7 (35:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And that was just thousand and one or something.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
No, it was like nineteen eighty eight and some guys
were just head over a little cuss some label. Yeah,
and we just it was a guy that had played keyboard,
a d X seven actually, and we just turned on
the tape.
Speaker 7 (36:06):
Machine and just made up songs.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
That's awesome.
Speaker 6 (36:08):
And then Paul Butterfield came by one night to hang
out and he and I we just turned the mic
on and he and I.
Speaker 7 (36:13):
Just riffed off of each other.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
That's so fun.
Speaker 7 (36:15):
That was fun.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, you wanted to do this version from another album of.
Speaker 7 (36:21):
Oh I did somewhere, Well, I wanted to do one
of yours.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, but Somewhere of the Rainbow. You did that on
an album, The on the Hand of Mouth one. Did
you want to try it?
Speaker 7 (36:32):
Yeah, let's try that and be flat again.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, that's fine. Sorry, here, I'll do a palette cleanser.
There you go.
Speaker 6 (36:47):
So I should play the uh if I only had
a brain. And then he goes into Somewhere over the Rainbow.
Do you want to sing it?
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Or I've never sang Somewhere over the Rainbow? Not in
the at home you know what I mean. You were
asking me yesterday if it's a hard song to sing, yeah,
and I thought, oh, I can sing it. It's fine.
I know that song like the back of my hand.
Because you know everybody grew up on that. I've never
sang it.
Speaker 7 (37:11):
You want to try to sing it?
Speaker 6 (37:12):
And then and then I'll play the melody afterwards, and
they will end with if I.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Only okay, and I won't sing that one, okay.
Speaker 6 (37:19):
Yeah, because I just do the little riff you see.
Speaker 8 (37:52):
Way a land lad I've heard of once in.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Alone by.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Sound where.
Speaker 12 (38:16):
The rainbow.
Speaker 8 (38:19):
Birds fly, birds fly?
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Oh the rainbow?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Why game time?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Someday I wish upon a star wake up, where the clouds.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Of Bobby behind way were troubles.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
My life drops away upon.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
The ship Chops.
Speaker 12 (39:01):
That's where fly up, where the rainbow.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Blue bird fly bird fly?
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Oh, rain book? Why came tip.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
It long?
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Oh my gosh, I've never played that.
Speaker 7 (42:20):
It was fun. It's beautiful. What that may make me cry?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
What a deep song man? Right, isn't it crazy? It's
like one of those songs that just everybody knows. It's
so emotional, Right, It's just the sentiment of that song
and the nostalgia that everybody probably has their own personal
(42:46):
nostalgia with the movie.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
Yeah, And I'm just thinking, okay while I'm playing this, Okay,
do I want this at my funeral?
Speaker 7 (42:52):
Do I want this hit my wedding.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
I want what do you want to?
Speaker 7 (42:58):
It's just one of those songs.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
It's it's so spiritual, Yes, it is spirituals it's almost
like a gospel song. These are not chromatic heart harmonica.
Speaker 7 (43:08):
No, they're not.
Speaker 6 (43:09):
So some of the notes you have to do.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
You play chromatic harmonica very little. Yeah, it's a whole
other thing, right, it's.
Speaker 6 (43:19):
A whole other instrument. Oh wow, So you actually have
to know music? Do you have to be a You
have to know a musician. You have to be a
musician to play them. These are all mostly by year you.
So if I can hear a melody, I can play it.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (43:33):
A chromatic you can play anything. Really, No, especially if
you're a reader. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
On the chromatic, there's like a little is there a
do they just have every note? Actually, well you have.
Speaker 6 (43:42):
A little like I'd like to blow the first hole
blow it's a sea you put this, push the button in.
Speaker 7 (43:48):
It's a sea shark.
Speaker 5 (43:49):
So there's a button to change the note.
Speaker 6 (43:51):
Okay, raises at a half step. Yeah, So as you
knew all your scales, you could play anything. I guess
I wouldn't have to carry thirty forty.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, but thirty forty harmonicas fits in a tiny loop.
Speaker 6 (44:03):
Yeah, actual chromatic.
Speaker 7 (44:04):
You don't really bend though, it's so easily yeah chromatic.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, don't forget that. So you've lived fifty years on
the road pretty.
Speaker 7 (44:16):
Much pretty much.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
How many dates a year do you guys usually do?
Speaker 7 (44:22):
We used to do about one hundred. We're doing sixty
this year.
Speaker 6 (44:25):
Yeah, you know, and then there's days off too, so
it I mean it used to will it used to
go out maybe in the eighties, we'd go out ten
weeks at a.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Time, some ten weeks straight.
Speaker 7 (44:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (44:36):
Wow, I mean it's not so much fun anymore for
me anyway. Yeah, I'm over it.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Well, that's a long time to be out there, yeah,
for anybody, for anybody. Yeah, but in the eighties.
Speaker 7 (44:46):
Yeah, we were young and dumb and it was fun.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
And that's a lot though.
Speaker 7 (44:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (44:52):
I mean the bands lasted longer too than everybody's fan.
It's got to be hard on a family and kids.
I never had kids, and I think I was just
selfish enough to, uh, to keep the music career going,
you know, I just didn't want to leave.
Speaker 7 (45:05):
I can't imagine leaving, you know, kids at home.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, I don't think it means my imaginary kids doesn't
mean you're selfish, but yeah, I know it must have.
It's it's a it's a weird.
Speaker 7 (45:17):
You get home and your kids going, who are you?
Speaker 3 (45:18):
You know?
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah, yeah this week I'm gone one week and I
feel horrible, but it's crazy.
Speaker 6 (45:27):
Yeah, but they and then they get to see to
travel on the bus with you and yeah, and see.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
That's fine world. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (45:33):
Yeah, I think Willie took his kids.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
We went to Australia with the highwaymen and everybody brought
their kids.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Everybody.
Speaker 6 (45:40):
Chris brought all his kids, and Willie brought his kids,
you know, Micah and uh and Lucas.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 6 (45:47):
Remember I can't remember if it's Jody or which one
of Christofferson's kids. When we got to the airport in Sydney,
he was Uh. I got off the plane and there
was his kids just screaming and crying and stuff.
Speaker 7 (45:58):
It's like, what's going on?
Speaker 6 (45:59):
And Chris as well, We promised him at the bottom
of the world, and he thought he'd be upside down
walking around upside down.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
That's pretty funny.
Speaker 7 (46:09):
First big disappointment for that case.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Exactly. I took my kids all over the world when
they were really little, and they don't remember any of it.
Speaker 6 (46:19):
They remember, you.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Know, hotel rooms and the bus, but they don't remember
going to Japan or because they were just just young
enough to where they don't really remember it. It's pretty funny.
Speaker 6 (46:34):
Oh my gosh, but you grew up in Dallas.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
I grew up in Dallas. Yeah, I grew up in
I was born in New York, but moved to Dallas
when I was four, and then we moved to grape Vine.
We lived in grape Vine for about five or six years,
and then I moved to Dallas for high school because
I went to the Performing Arts High School in downtown.
Speaker 6 (46:55):
And who was at school with you then that they
came out of that? Did eric about you?
Speaker 1 (47:00):
She did come out of there, but she was older
than me, so I didn't go to school with her,
but she was like our hero. And Roy Hargrove went
to my school again older, but yeah, it was a
really doesn't just pass Yeah he passed away a few
years ago. Yeah, way too young. And actually Eadie brookel
went to my school.
Speaker 6 (47:20):
Yeah, yeah, she went to another also a high school
that that was kind of the high school next high
school over from me.
Speaker 7 (47:28):
I went to Hillcrest, had to like.
Speaker 5 (47:30):
Islands okay, cool?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Dallas.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Your accent always reminds me of family too. Oh really
well yeah, because it's like I feel like that Dallas
accent is very particular. People think of Texas as having
a Southern accent, but it's a different it's a.
Speaker 6 (47:46):
Different thing my family and my dad was German, German refugee,
so he had a heavy, heavy German accent really yeah,
which I never spoke any German. But my mom was
from New Orleans.
Speaker 7 (47:58):
Ah, well she might have had a Southern draw.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
That's a good mix.
Speaker 7 (48:02):
Yeah yeah, very musical.
Speaker 6 (48:06):
I mean New Orleans. There's so much music totally there.
And then my mom playing I'll never get it. I
mean Rhapsody in Blue is such a Do you play it?
Speaker 1 (48:13):
I mean I can fake like one part? Yeah, no,
I can't.
Speaker 7 (48:16):
Play I can't play it.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
I can't play like that, but.
Speaker 5 (48:21):
Nope, I can't.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Should we play another song?
Speaker 7 (48:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (48:29):
What do we?
Speaker 7 (48:30):
What do you want?
Speaker 11 (48:30):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (48:31):
Let's do?
Speaker 12 (48:31):
Uh?
Speaker 7 (48:32):
Which I was stumbling through your stuff, stumble on my.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Way, I know when you suggested that I had to
google if there was another song called stumble on my
Way that I didn't know because I couldn't believe that.
Speaker 7 (48:41):
You know, Yeah, I love this one.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
I love that. That's so sweet.
Speaker 7 (48:45):
Let me guess be flat.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yep, we can do it and see if you want.
Speaker 6 (48:50):
Don't be flat, okay, because I've already got there's that
that seventh that I like you.
Speaker 5 (48:54):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 6 (48:56):
So you know where the steel player steel comes in
kind of it says I'll kiss the dawn and now
I'll stumble on my way.
Speaker 7 (49:03):
I'm going to play a whole solo on that because
I just love that melody.
Speaker 5 (49:05):
Okay, let me just make sure I have where to
not play.
Speaker 7 (49:10):
Oh, just play anywhere, and then we'll just fake it.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Okay, just look at it.
Speaker 7 (49:15):
We don't want to know what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
We don't really want to know what we're doing. Will
you look at me if I if I'm supposed to
come back in?
Speaker 7 (49:21):
Oh? Okay, yeah, this is a weird song.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Wed.
Speaker 7 (49:24):
Yeah, you don't know when a verse ends?
Speaker 1 (49:25):
No, and I've actually never done it live. Oh well,
I mean I did it once for this live stream thing,
but I don't usually play this live.
Speaker 6 (49:33):
We'll just come in when I've been playing too much.
That's a good You know, we were playing one time
with because when you're playing, like with Willy or whatever,
in the kind of music we do, you take a verse.
I mean a soloist takes a verse. So I was
playing with Wit and Marsalis and they kept playing, you know,
you play three or four verses, and he said, you know,
or I play a verse and then pass it to
(49:54):
the next guy who wasn't playing yet.
Speaker 7 (49:56):
And when we would go do.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Another, Yeah, he wasn't keep going and keep going.
Speaker 7 (50:00):
Yeah, It's like I wasn't trying that way.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I know, it's a different thing. Yeah, I come from
the jazz world where I'm used to people doing that,
but yeah, I don't have enough vocabulary to keep going.
Speaker 5 (50:12):
I like to keep it short and simple.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Was that the Yeah, yeah, that was the Ray Charles songs, right.
Speaker 7 (50:24):
And when we would just riff or just played the solos.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Yeah, I remember. The piano player was so good. But
I was so jealous because I was like, I wanted
to play piano so bad on all those Ray Charles songs.
That was fun. There's video of that online.
Speaker 7 (50:38):
This is one of my favorite songs.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
You're so nice. I appreciate that above the cloud, I
found place acking without a trace, wondering.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
I candans ways all of the blue out into space.
You hold me. I can't come down until after myself around.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
The sun is fayy into I.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
All of your beards and all elive is almost gone,
a passing, and I never know what don't mean.
Speaker 13 (52:22):
I'll sing the song I have a time, and I'm
holding on.
Speaker 4 (52:36):
To what is my.
Speaker 13 (52:41):
But I'll kiss the.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Doll of a neon day and then I'll still bood.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
My way, I sang, so.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
I'll have a time.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
I'm home now.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
To what is bad. I'll the do.
Speaker 8 (54:04):
Of on day and then ousta.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Way and then.
Speaker 8 (54:24):
Way.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
That's so beautiful. You gotta come sitting with me sometimes
No way, way, no way, no way, you gotta come.
Speaker 7 (54:52):
I told you we have to do the European tour.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
We should for sure. I got a great band right now.
It would be so fun.
Speaker 7 (54:58):
Yeah. I love that steel player Dan Dan.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
I eat he's on tour with me this summer.
Speaker 7 (55:02):
Well are you using what's the drummer's name that same blade? Oh?
Using Brian?
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (55:07):
Oh wow, I've never played with him.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Oh he's he's amazing.
Speaker 7 (55:10):
Yeah, yeah, I saw the podcast with him.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
Oh yeah, that was fun. He's an incredible singer, so
it was fun. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (55:19):
Yeah, I definitely want to come and play. You should
and now we've got it on.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Tape, so well anytime. I mean, I've known you for
twenty years. Come on.
Speaker 6 (55:27):
Well, you know, I didn't want to push myself, you know, anytime.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Anytime, we'll do this song and many others. Well, this
was so fun.
Speaker 7 (55:38):
Yeah for me too, this is great. And it's nine
thirty in the morning.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
It was what time, ten thirty.
Speaker 6 (55:44):
That's pretty good for you to get up for one
and then to be able to sing at this time
of day too.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
I feel like singing early is not so hard. It
kind of is dusty in it in the nighttime way,
you know what I mean. Should we do one song
to take us out?
Speaker 7 (55:58):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 5 (55:59):
Playing music is so so fun.
Speaker 7 (56:01):
It is fun, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
I printed out I brought my guitar in case you
wanted to do like so Loansome. I could cry, or
we could do that blue song.
Speaker 7 (56:11):
Oh, come under the Robert Johnson, the Robert Johnson. Yeah,
let's try that.
Speaker 6 (56:14):
I have never played it.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
I've actually never played it either, but with Delaney and
Bonnie I didn't know that version, and is that it's
like it's but.
Speaker 7 (56:24):
It's just a I listened to the Robert Johnson one too.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Oh well, I grew up on that one for sure.
But I like the fat, the groove kind of faster.
Speaker 7 (56:32):
Like, okay, we can do whatever.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Yeah, be flat, no, let's do let's switch it.
Speaker 7 (56:38):
It really doesn't matter. I mean, that's actually a good key.
You know, what's a bad key for the harmonica is.
Speaker 6 (56:42):
D because I need a G harmonica and it's really
low and it doesn't interesting. I mean, it's not a
bad key, it just doesn't it's not as fluid, it
doesn't cut as much. I mean, but I never get
to play the E flat harmonica, which is in B flat.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Is that what you want to do?
Speaker 7 (57:01):
Yea's stay in that key.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
We're just gonna keep this whole podcast, this whole episode
is just going to be and be flat before all right,
one more palette cleanser.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Now about.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
I'm gonna let you sort of like do more of
the rhythmic stuff and it I'll come in on it.
Speaker 5 (57:29):
But maybe you started I don't remember that.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Maybe you just it's just cool if you started it.
Speaker 7 (57:37):
I feel like, okay, come on in my kitchen. Is
that doing?
Speaker 2 (58:04):
Oh man, I love.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Took from my best friend. Some joker gotta lucky stole
him back again.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
You better come on in my.
Speaker 1 (58:19):
Kitchen because he's going.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
To be rain and outdoors. Now she's gone. Oh I
know he won't come back.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
He took the last nickel from my nation's side.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
You better come on.
Speaker 8 (58:48):
In my kitchen because he is gone to be rain
in outdoors. We're getting in trouble. Everybody throws me down.
(59:32):
Look for my good friend. None can be found. You
better come on in my kitchen because he's gone.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
He'll be raining now where the time's coming. It's gonna
(01:00:20):
be slow.
Speaker 8 (01:00:23):
Can make a winner vas giant long.
Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
So you better come on in my kitchen because it's
gone to be made in outdoors.
Speaker 8 (01:00:41):
You better come on.
Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
In my kitchen.
Speaker 8 (01:00:46):
Because he's going to be made outdoors.
Speaker 7 (01:01:01):
It's great.
Speaker 6 (01:01:02):
I love how you when you're playing, you're not playing
a straight rhythm, that they're these missing beats that you
feel the beat anyway.
Speaker 7 (01:01:09):
But it's just so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
I wasn't sure what to do, and then when I
started playing, I thought, oh no, I shouldn't play at
all because you were doing the rhythm. So then I
started trying to do like just some weird high stuff.
Speaker 7 (01:01:22):
No. I was thinking, God, you've been practicing this forever.
Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
You must have just like Nope, I try to practice
this because we talked about doing it and I realized
it's not the kind of song to really I couldn't
really figure out how to practice it.
Speaker 7 (01:01:38):
I like practicing like that, I mean, learn doing stuff spontaneous.
Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
But that's how I that's how I've always been. I'm
much better that way, and I like that. Well, that's
kind of like the fly by the seat of your
pants when I sang with Willy, and you know, I
think that's the best way.
Speaker 7 (01:01:52):
Yeah, because I think over you know, over rehearsing and stuff.
Speaker 6 (01:01:55):
I mean, I usually my best take if I'm in
the studio is the first.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
It's the first, right, Yeah, I know, me too.
Speaker 7 (01:02:01):
And I keep trying to get back to that play it.
The further I get away from it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Well, that's why that's why like Redheaded Strangers so amazing,
because it's it's not overthought.
Speaker 7 (01:02:14):
It's or overplayed. I mean there's so much space on.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
That, so much space, and I mean the concept is thought,
but the playing is just comes out of you, and
that's that's the best.
Speaker 7 (01:02:25):
And you hit the stack of napkins.
Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
That's amazing in front of him. Yeah, I had to.
I mean, I've known this song forever, but I had
to google Nation Sack that the lyric in this song.
I took the last nickel from her Nation Sack. I
had to google it. It's like an old timy thing.
It's like a purse. It's like a little satchel that
(01:02:50):
you put your coins and stuff in. But you women,
I guess, used to have them around their waist under
their skirts.
Speaker 5 (01:02:56):
Ah, this is what the Internet told me, so I
could be right.
Speaker 7 (01:03:00):
Then it must be right, it must be right.
Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
And then and then it said that, and then prostitutes
started using them because the jingling would attract customers. So
I had to I had to google that word and
then decide how I was gonna sing that line.
Speaker 7 (01:03:14):
A good name for a band Nation Sack, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:03:16):
I'm not so sure. Well, anyway, I love you so much.
Speaker 7 (01:03:23):
This is I love you too, and this is this
has been fun.
Speaker 6 (01:03:27):
We really, I mean, I've known you for so long
and we never really sat and played no, because you know,
they've been trying to keep us apart.
Speaker 7 (01:03:33):
That's what it is, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Willie Heck yeah, man, Yeah, I mean I'm just you
mean a lot to me, and musically you mean a
lot to me. Even before I met you and being
friends for twenty years and feeling like I'm part of
that were like family, you know, even though we don't
(01:03:55):
see each other, sometimes it feels really special to me.
Speaker 6 (01:03:58):
I mean, I cannot talk to you for you and
then pick up on the conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
We're just talking about love and and sleep and everything,
and it's I don't know, it's specially You're very special
to me. So I love you very much. Thanks for
being my friend.
Speaker 7 (01:04:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (01:04:13):
Nick makes a pleasure and a privilege.
Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
I'm just playing love.
Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Oh yeah, it's just sweetheart. He's the best musically and conversationally. Yeah,
he's just he's family, like a warm hug.
Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
Is that weird to say?
Speaker 7 (01:04:33):
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
He's the best. Thanks Mickey for joining us, and thank
you for joining us and listening along. Yeah, just listening
alone with me.
Speaker 5 (01:04:45):
Don't forget to like and subscribe, li.
Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
And subscribe and subscribe so you don't miss an EPISO.
If you're wondering what songs we played in this episode.
The first song was called night Life by Willie Nelson.
It's the song from nineteen sixty second song is Helped
(01:05:10):
Me Make It through the Night, written by Chris Christofferson
in nineteen seventy. The third song was Over the Rainbow
and If I Only Had a Brain, both from the
nineteen thirty nine film The Wizard of a haz songs
were written by Harold Arland and lyrics by Ya Prberg.
The fourth song was a request of Mickey's and it
(01:05:31):
is my song called Stumble on My Way from the
Pick Me Up Off the Floor album. The fifth song
we did was the old blue song by Robert Johnson
called come On in My Kitchen from the nineteen thirties.
The session was recorded at night Bird Recording Studios in
Los Angeles. Engineered by Colton Lakey and assisted by Louis
(01:05:55):
Sanchez Navarro, mixed by Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda.
Additional engineering by Greg Tobler and Matt Marinelli. Artwork by
Eliza Frye. Photography by Shervin Linez. Produced by Norah Jones
and Sarah Oda.
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