Sam Smith

Sam Smith, the mutli-GRAMMY winning vocalist and songwriter, sits down with Norah for a conversation full of insight and heart. They reflect on how their artistry has shifted over the years, the joy of feeling truly at home in themselves, and the importance of holding onto the music that shaped them. Throughout the episode, you’ll hear standout duets, including a nod to an artist they both admire.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You
can visit Norah Jones channel and be sure to subscribe
while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones and today I'm
playing along with Sam Smith. I'm just playing long Weuy,
I'm just playing in lone with you. Hey, I'm Nora.

(00:25):
Welcome to the show. And with me, it's always is
Sarah Oda. Welcome to our show.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yay.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Our guest today is Grammy winning singer songwriter, beautiful human
with an incredible.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Voice, Sam Smith.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
They broke out with Stay with Me and their record
called in the Lonely Hour in twenty fourteen, and you're
going to hear about how they've continued evolving since then. Currently,
they're doing a tour of intimate, stripped down residencies called.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
To Be Free.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
The New York run has extended dates through December thirteenth.
Keep an eye out to see if there's still tickets available,
but they've also announced more residency dates in San Francisco
for February of twenty twenty six.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
This was a really special episode, really really heartwarming.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm a fan and I really just could I could
listen to Sam talk forever. Yeah, we sang some pretty
songs too beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, you're going to hear about evolving as an artist
and kind of how fans perceive those changes. Feeling happy
and confident in your own skin, and staying connected with
music from the past, which isn't always easy, and new
takes on songs you might know.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, so I hope you enjoy this episode with Sam Smith.
You're living in New York.

Speaker 5 (01:40):
Yes, I'm living in New York.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
And is it How does it feel?

Speaker 5 (01:45):
It feels? It feels amazing. It's it feels like for me,
the first time I found a place to be where
I'm just enough and not. That's that's how it feels

(02:05):
like to me.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (02:07):
Yeah, it's like I've just everywhere I've always been since
I was a kid, it's just always too much all
the time and too loud, too big, to queer, to opinionate,
all these things, and so it really it feels like
it's a city that can facilitate my nature. That is deep,
which is beautiful, That.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Is really beautiful. Well, welcome to New York.

Speaker 5 (02:30):
Thank you, Yeah, thank you. You're hearing that from you
is amazing.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Wow, that's really quite a thing to to realize.

Speaker 5 (02:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, Well, I'm glad you're content here. This feels good
and you're doing like this crazy string of shows. Yeah,
just at the Warsaw, right, Yeah, the Warsaw How many
shows is it?

Speaker 5 (02:53):
Twenty four shows in total, but.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
With little breaks, right, Yeah, it's three.

Speaker 5 (02:57):
Shows a week for three weeks, and then I get
two weeks break, which I'm on right now, and then
another three weeks.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Aren't But that sounds so fun.

Speaker 5 (03:04):
It's so fun. And yeah, it's so fun, and I
it was quite confronting the first show, because you've got
to remember, You've got to remember I've been traveling since
I was twenty years old. My shows started to get
bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and I I
just became an arena artist and that's what I did

(03:26):
for my whole twenties. And the pressure of that and
the I love playing those rooms and nothing and the
buzz of it is so incredible.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
It's a different thing.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
It's a different thing, and for me, it's you know,
I've never really spoken about it too much in detail
because I because but I can now I think, But
I am so scared of performing live really, Yeah, I
find it really traumatic and petrifying.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Is it just your nature to be shy like that
or no?

Speaker 5 (04:00):
I think. I think. Actually, now I'm going on and
realize I'm more of a what's it called introvert. I'm
more of an intro than I thought I was, because
I'm in, you know, in everyday life. I'm larger than life.
But it's just being in those rooms. It what it is.
It's the pressure. It's the pressure in those big arenas.
For me, it's the pressure on my voice to deliver.

(04:22):
I find that crippling. And because I've chosen to not
mime and not to lean on that if things go.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Wrong, which most arena artists do.

Speaker 5 (04:32):
Yeah, a lot of a lot of them do, I think,
And and that is there's no judgment. Actually, and I
actually tried it once. There's one show that I for
one song in one show, I was like, do you
know what? I can't be so opinionated about this unless
I try it myself. So there's one show one night
on my tour when my voice was totally fine, and

(04:53):
I just said, JO for one song, I'm gonna min
or just start to finish. I just had a live
vocal come over my voice. I I and I mind
for the first time ever in a room full of
twenty thousand people. But I still sang ninety percent of
that show, ninety nine percent of that show.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
But you just wanted to see what it was like.

Speaker 5 (05:13):
I would see what it was like for one song,
and it was it was great. You got a little break,
it was great, my voice got a break. But it
was just it wasn't it wasn't right for me. I
I think that I got into you know, I started

(05:35):
doing musical theater as a child, and then I decided
I wanted to stop doing musical theater when I was
about fifteen, from listening to records like yours and so
many records around me as a child, where I just
fell in love with the art of singer songwriters and
people telling their stories through their records. And my singing
teacher at the time is an amazing woman called Joanna Eden,

(05:57):
and she is a singer songwriter and she is incredible
and her albums used to inspire me so much when
I was a child, because I was like, Wow, I
could do that. I can actually tell my stories and
maybe even travel one day around the country or you know,
never really thought it would be the world, but and
be able to like just play small venues and enjoy
the art of singing and sharing stories. That's what I

(06:19):
fell in love with and from a young age I
kind of promised myself that. And one of the main
reasons why I love that art form is so much
is because of the warts and all, and from those
incredible recordings of you know, Jooni Mitchell and people like that,
where you hear the voice change and you hear the
imperfections in the voice change. And so I think that

(06:40):
through miming that one time in that one song, I
really it became clear to me what I wanted to do.
And so doing these shows at the Warsaw have been
an amazing way of me getting back to that and
getting back to the real love of what I do,
and that my love, because my ultimate love is studio writing.

(07:03):
Singing and performing was more more of a secondary thing
that comes with the territory.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Well being in a small room. I was just talking
to a friend this morning about that, because I went
to a few arena shows recently and it was so
different from from where I play in usually smaller theaters
and being backstage. Because I was backstage, I got to
be backstage and it was crazy, because what did you

(07:31):
say I saw? I saw John Legend last night and
I got to singing. It was incredible.

Speaker 5 (07:38):
He's incredible. He's incredible, the greatest, one of the greatest
there is.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
His voice is insane, so beautiful. But just the backstage
area and it was a very nice arena. You know,
it's beautiful, but I feel like if you were only
in those kinds of places, even just being backstage, it
feels kind of lonely.

Speaker 5 (08:00):
It's very lonely. It's very lonely and isolating. And you know,
one of the things I love about doing shows is
I like being with my band. I like being close
to my band, especially my backing singers there they're my family,
and so I love to be close to people. And
because it really is as much as it's my name

(08:22):
of my songs, it's such a collaborative thing, you know,
being on stage, so.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Well, that's what when it is, that's when it's the best.

Speaker 5 (08:29):
Yes, yes, but I my whole career became in my
last arena tour became very very isolated where for me
to fill some sort of control as well. I actually
I kind of lean into the theatrics really far on
my last arena tour with the costume changes, and I

(08:49):
was quite defined. I was like, look, if I'm going
to do this room in this way and sing pop
songs like this, then this is how it's going to be.
It's going to be loads of track and and I'm
going to do this pop star thing that I've always
the itch, I've always wanted to scratch.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
So you did it so well.

Speaker 5 (09:05):
It was fun. I was I was fat, and I
was shattered the whole way through it. I sprayed my
ankle three times because I was wearing People don't realize
I'm like, you know, the girls, the girls, the queens
of music, you know, they do this and they do
it so incredibly well. But I'm a six foot two,
seventeen stone queer person, you know, in eight inch massive hills.

(09:29):
That's nice running around, you know, like doing crazy things
and being new, like naked on stage every night for
that one song when I sang them Adonna song Express Yourself.
It was such a wild experience and it was really
was a dream come true and I got to tick
that box. But after I was like, I belong at

(09:50):
the Warsaw and Brooklyn right now. I need to go back.
I need to regather, and I need to connect to
my fan base again, because me and my fans we
we I think there's a little there's been a disconnect naturally,
because I've gone from being to them a gay, a
young gay man, to now being in a position where

(10:11):
I have my pronouns have changed and I'm a queer
person and I'm now a very different person, and so
I have to reconnect with my fans.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
But I think they're all changing as well. I mean, everyone,
over time changes, and I think that's just part of life.
And I think people's favorite type of artists are ones
who change.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I think going from being this pop star in the
arena to playing these intimate shows, it's just so special
for people.

Speaker 5 (10:39):
But you must have experienced that right through your career,
like having to like do the things that you want
to do and maybe some people not coming along for
the ride.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Probably. I had a record label president tell me he
didn't love my record, and that was fine because he
was my friend and I trusted him. But I loved it,
and so he still was fine and he let me
put it out. Is a good thing, you know, that's good.
But yeah, I think I think changing once you realize
that you can't do this to please them. You want

(11:08):
to stay connected to them, but only that's only going
to keep happening if you're doing what just tickles you,
you know, yeah, what you love.

Speaker 5 (11:16):
Yeah, it's so true.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Well, I wanted to see if you wanted to sing
one of your new songs that you've been doing at
the warsaw Yes, I would love to that to be
Free it's actually called the to Be Free.

Speaker 5 (11:28):
It's called to it's called to Be Free tour, that
residency tour that if we've announced to the residen season.
This song is a song that I wrote with my
friend Simon Aldred and I wrote it at the very
the same week that I actually changed my pronouns and
went on this this this moment of self discovery for

(11:52):
me and realization, and I wrote this song with him
and it's just such an amazing moment. And I'll never
sing the song like I did in the recording because
it was five years ago.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
And and you felt it every drop of it.

Speaker 5 (12:05):
Yeah, it was like the whole the song that you
that's been released is the it's just me singing the
thing the whole way through me and him just performing
free in the room, no clicks beautiful. It was amazing,
So I you.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Know it sure goes along with the lyrics too, you
know everything and just do it.

Speaker 5 (12:26):
That's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
I would love to okay.

Speaker 6 (12:50):
Pray, be live, prave and free like bye.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Flowed, oh fare whole place down the lane to be free,

(13:24):
like the river, just be to be free, winds of feed.

Speaker 5 (13:42):
Fly to.

Speaker 7 (13:57):
Shake off you're burden, shame stol, friend of body lost,
my faith in perfect.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Will behold.

Speaker 4 (14:22):
Entire to be free, thank the river, just to be.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
To be free, winds of freedom.

Speaker 8 (14:51):
Flyer flo ae fla to be free, and the river.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
That is the speed.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
To be free.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Wings are freedom. Fight tune me, fight me change.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh that's so pretty.

Speaker 5 (16:26):
Two days ago I was I was Julia Childs for Halloween.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Oh my god, so I was.

Speaker 5 (16:33):
So I was screaming like like screaming really laugh and
my voices.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
On did you do the show on Halloween?

Speaker 5 (16:41):
I did?

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, were you Julia Childs for the show? But after
the show, after the show, that's kind of a brilliant, fabulous.
That's like the best costume I think I've heard in one.

Speaker 5 (16:53):
The theme of my Halloween part was Meryl streep, so
we and then last year the theme was Nicole Kidman.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Can I where do I get it? Invite to this
Friday right now?

Speaker 5 (17:02):
You're invited next year. Come next year we're going to
do Sex and City.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I think, Oh my god, I'm a Halloween.

Speaker 5 (17:09):
Lover since coming to New York. I now get it.
Like it's different here, isn't it. It's like, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Spent one Halloween in London and it was funny.

Speaker 5 (17:18):
It's quite bleak.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, well it was fun, but yeah, nobody else was
dressed like me. I felt really ugly.

Speaker 5 (17:25):
And it's all for children in the Halloween in the UK,
like THEE it's involved.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah, okay, Yeah, your songs are very piano friendly. Oh
there's so beautiful and fun to play. It's like a prayer.

Speaker 5 (17:40):
Yeah, it feels like a prayer that song to me
when I sing it, and like even just then, like
my voice feels a bit tired today, but it still
feels right when I'm doing it. You can mumble it
and hopefully when I'm old and gray, I can croak
it out.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
I think you will. It's so beautiful. You said you
wrote that at a time when you were really coming
into yourself a little more. It's been really interesting watching
you over the years and feeling I've come to this
realization that you've become such an inspiration to so many people,

(18:19):
and it's really beautiful. And I was wondering if you
feel that you must know that you must feel it
from people.

Speaker 5 (18:29):
Yeah, I think I'm actually in the process right now
of starting to like now that I've now I feel
like I'm in my skin, which I always felt, to
be honest, but it was just now I feel like
everyone's caught up with me.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
It's more how I feel that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (18:49):
Yeah, I feel I feel now ready to assume responsibility
in and feel good about that, not just for hopefully
queer people that may see themselves a little bit in
what I do or or feel soothed by it, but

(19:11):
also for everyone, not just queer people, anyone who feels different.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
You know, it's it's just most people, which is most people.

Speaker 5 (19:21):
Yeah. I think the more we spoke about that, actually,
the more we'd realize we have so much more in
common than we think. Yeah, but it was, Yeah, it was.
It's been a strange experience to me because I was
so out and proud as a child, were you okay,
very like it was not you know, there was no
containing me.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
I was.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
There was no closets. Honestly, when I came out, everyone
was like, yeah, like it was so and I came
out so young. I was like ten years old, and
so by the time that I was in school end
of school, I was wearing four I go to score
every day in makeup and female clothing and everything, and
I was very much how people have seen me over
the last three years expressed myself. I was doing that

(20:01):
at eighteen.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
I felt like for the first for my first album,
I kind of felt like I was in drag.

Speaker 5 (20:07):
By wearing suits, wearing my suits, and my queer file
was like, this is fab I feel like I feel,
I feel. I loved it. I felt very much in
my skin because I was exploring. It was only until
my second album when there was this pressure to remain
the same.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, I was going to ask if that came again
then from the industry.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
It was from the industry, but it's also myself, like
I was, I'm a very ambitious person and so I
I would love like I looked at people around me
like I looked at Adele, and I looked at ed
sheeran even like Amy Winehouse and you know, so many
of the greats. I looked at them and I just thought,

(20:50):
I would love to be like that. I'd love to
just stick with that iconic look and that and that
thing and be able to stay there. And so I tried.
I tried, and but there is a there is an
ocean inside of me that is constantly flowing. Wow, it's

(21:10):
a weird thing to balance because you're happy and you're
getting happier in your skin, but you're still very blessed
and lucky in your career in life, so there's nothing
to moan about.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
But when you see ambition starts to lessen, and when
you see people leaving, you only see usually people mostly
only see the negative sometimes, Oh for sure, easy to
ruminate on that for sure.

Speaker 5 (21:32):
And thank god I had amazing positive people around me
that was you know, just like, look around you, this
is incredible. Like if there's nothing to worry about, it's beautiful.
But you know, I was trained from a young age
to be ambitious and to and to break through the
ceilings above me, you know, And so I'm starting to
realize now that I can do that still if I

(21:54):
want to. But Yeah, it was. It was a transitional
thing that happened to me that I don't think has
happened to a lot of Popeyes before.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
No, I don't think so at all. That's why I
feel like it's so it's amazing. Actually, you know, when
I was thinking about the last ten or so years
and you preparing for this, I was thinking about all
of the evolving that's happened you and how how was

(22:25):
that on the inside, you know, how was that it was?

Speaker 5 (22:29):
It was you know, it was it was hard, but
it was it was the more I became myself, the
more happy off my skin. The hardest part for me
was in on my second album, I did call a
tal called the Thrill of It or World Tour, and
it was one hundred and forty dates. That's a lot
around the world, and my audience was huge, and it

(22:52):
was the pressure was insane. Yeah, and I got through
one hundred dates and did it. And I think I
did those hundred dates without canceling anything.

Speaker 9 (23:03):
And then.

Speaker 5 (23:05):
Throughout the tour, I'd start to really start to realize
that I'm not moving on stage the way that I
want to, the way that I'm dancing. I'm kind of
I'm playing straight. I'm like, to me, what that ever
meant to me? But like, I'm I'm kind of moving.
I'm not moving in the way that I move when
I'm out of the club with my friends because I'm

(23:26):
I'm quite a fem mover and dancer, and so I'm
like trying to enjoy my shows and dance. But I
could have moved in the way that I wanted to.
And so that that created this dialogue within me, like
what's what's happening here? And then I started to realize,
oh God, there's this there's a secret I have that
I haven't shared with the world, I haven't shared with
my team, and that is that I'm fem that I'm

(23:48):
a femme queer person. And so that became bigger. This
this pressure became bigger and bigger, bigger within yourself, within
myself to share it, to share it. And I knew
that I had this secret I had to share, and
it all came to fruition. I was in South Africa
and I was I was I thought I was doing

(24:09):
fine and getting through everything. But I was on stage
and I had like three four songs in and I
just like something in my brain switched and then I
had a massive panic attack four songs in on stage.
Managed to hide it from the audience, but walked off stage.
And I've never done this in my life. I'd walked
off stage and just walked directly into my car and

(24:30):
I said, I need to go, and I went to
the hotel and had to cancel thirty shows and I
stopped performing for about a year and a half. I
didn't talk about it publicly, and I'm happy I didn't
because at the time. At the time, yeah, because I'm
happy I didn't talk about it because I was able

(24:51):
to heal without the pressure of everyone knowing that, oh,
I was having panic attacks, so.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
That would be the worst.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (24:57):
Yeah, So when I go.

Speaker 5 (24:58):
Back on stage, I could act actually like have a
chance at dealing with it privately. But that was the
hardest part for me because my body just went this
character that we're doing right now, it's done.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
It rejected it, it rejected it. Isn't it weird? How
the body? Will they say that that book The body
keeps score? It really is.

Speaker 5 (25:17):
Oh God, it's wild. It's actually and it's a lovely thing.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
It's like it's self protective.

Speaker 5 (25:22):
Yeah, your brain is only one part of your whole body.
Your whole body's moving it. Yeah, you know, you've got
to listen to it. And so I stopped. And that's
when I had lots of therapy. I realized that, you know,
this is I'm showing facets of myself to the public
through my music. And I'm very famous and successful because
of this, but I am there's more. There's more to

(25:45):
me that needs to be shared. Yeah, you know, And
and so I did, and I found the courage.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
That's beautiful. Did you feel like at that time was
it all making its way into the music you were making?

Speaker 5 (25:59):
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
So so the music was telling all the sort of
insides of you.

Speaker 5 (26:06):
Yeah, I think it was. And that's what I get
so frustrated with with the way that my music has
taken sometimes because my my third and my fourth album
became more and more commercial and more pop. And I've mean,
I guess you can hear that money was in the room.
When when When when you listen to that music, because

(26:28):
there's there's their formulaic and their I think that some
people look at it as if I sold out sometimes,
but that's what think. No, but I spent years think
about it and even now to this day, when I'm
releasing new music now people are saying, you know, I've heard,
I heard I now don't listen to anything, but I

(26:49):
heard someone say recently, this new song so authentic. It's
so nice for them to hear them doing what they
want to do. I suppose what the labelers forced to
do on the last few albums.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Which is not the case.

Speaker 5 (27:02):
It's not the case because to understand my third and
fourth record, you have to understand the context of what
it is to be queer and famous at twenty five
years old. Yeah, and so I was making music that
I was being I wasn't like I've never been like

(27:22):
a cool queer person where I like, for you won't
find me in like deep Brooklyn, like listening to like
incredible like house music and stuff. I feel quite alienated
from those rooms A lot of the time. I'm I'm
kind of more of like a radical, centrist queer person,
like you'll find me in Stonewall, like you'll find me

(27:43):
in those parts of gay culture. I like to be
in the center, and I always like to be kind
of around, yeah, just around the set the center of
queerness in that way, in the on those high streets
that have all that history around. I enjoy that. And
so the music that I was exposed to and have
been from when I was finding myself in my twenties

(28:04):
was like real, like down straight down the middle pop music,
incredible pop music, an the anthems, and also the kind
of like I don't I don't want to bad mouth
the pop that I'm talking about when I'm saying this,
but just like I don't know, like it's so weird.
There's there's like some songs that I've loved from girl

(28:26):
groups that I've been obsessed with for a long time,
and I've even met the writers behind it who have
kind of said, oh, we wrote that as a joke,
and I'm like, well, it's not a joke to me,
Like I love that song, I like dance to it.
It's my going out song. And so I'm very proud
of those records. And within those records there's fantastic moments,
but there's also moments that I've learned a lot from.

(28:49):
And so yeah, I get annoyed that people don't understand
the context of my music sometimes and they they compare
me to straight counterparts that the work where context is important.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
You can't.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah, those opinions will hang you up. Yeah, and they
will mess you up.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
You can't.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, push them aside, I have to.

Speaker 5 (29:11):
Yeah, it's something I am just coming to great so
with even now.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Like, yeah, I learned that lesson after my first record. Yeah,
I stopped reading anything because it just hurt my feelings. Yeah,
even though a lot of it was so good. All again,
all you see is the negative. It's really hard to
see all the good sometimes you just focus on them
like one little negative thing.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
See, I'm a sucker for Like I think it's probably
down to my my upbringing. I think a lot of
queer people as well are hard on themselves, so I think,
of course.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
I see it as like I thought it was positive
to like whip myself like that, but it's not.

Speaker 5 (29:49):
And I'm realizing that now.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
No, No, I'm sure you know, the baggage we all
carry is different. But I'm sure it's pretty deep. It
goes pretty deep for you.

Speaker 5 (30:00):
Yeah, it does. And it's just it's a learning and
it's a practice and I'm getting so much better at it.
But I just I do. I am just a big
kind of I'm a cheerleader for the music, for my music.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, well, your music is beautiful, and I wanted to ask, also,
it's a dance music and you go out and dance.

Speaker 5 (30:16):
Yes, a little bit. Not anymore. Actually before, before, when
I was younger, I did, yeah, but it was more
it was it wasn't necessary to dance. It was more
to pop, just pop stars, pop girls doing what they do.
I'm just I'm I'm. Everything that I'm inspy by is
from women. That's the truth the whole way through. You know,

(30:37):
it's only a few men I listened to and really, yeah,
and I just love listening to stories from women. That's beautiful, greatest.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Well, you want to try another song? Yeah, yeah, I
love the song. I'm not the only one. I just
love that piano part. I know that insane?

Speaker 5 (30:54):
Yeah, who played Jimmy names? He wrote that and he
played it and we actually wrote completely different song to
those chords, which which wasn't great. And then like a
few weeks later, I was just like, we have to
go back to those chords because there's something about those courts.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
They're so good and just the way he plays them.

Speaker 5 (31:14):
And then we redid it and took a second crack
at it, and then we wrote this which.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Is okay, which is amazing. It's great. Is this on
your first song?

Speaker 5 (31:21):
This is on my first album? Yeah, this is. It's
a song about I was. I was very young, and
I was completely besotted and in love with a straight
guy who didn't nothing physical happened between us, so it
wasn't a relationship. It was pure unrequited love. And he
was actually married and he was not faithful to his wife.

(31:50):
And I would witness this sometimes without without him, like
if we were out and about, I'd see him flirt
with people, and it would break my heart seeing it happen.
And it's someone that I loved. But also I was
just so upset and angry that he was doing this
in his life.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
And so this is a song that I wrote from
her perspective. Wow, Yeah, it's pretty heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, you and me we made a fum pardo all

(32:52):
the fun mode and I can't believe you let me.

Speaker 10 (33:01):
But the proofs in the way.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Her from mons. End of that, then Nevey.

Speaker 5 (33:22):
And I wish this will be over now, but I
know that I still meet tune.

Speaker 11 (33:33):
He said, are grazed because you don't think you knowny.

Speaker 9 (33:43):
Daughters, But where you car me by me? And not
the Naty only world. You'vean sort of vada.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
No Sady, I know.

Speaker 12 (34:14):
Your heart is unertainable, even though the knows you can,
he said, raise.

Speaker 8 (34:32):
Because you nohing I know you man where you love
me by me and not the nah.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
The only world he know I loved you for money.

Speaker 11 (34:59):
They behind and do honey know he made me realizes
with the speeds.

Speaker 13 (35:11):
Who by like he's having side, He said, razy.

Speaker 8 (35:25):
Because you don't think a normal unger where you call
me baby.

Speaker 11 (35:38):
A novel Naty only one, the Nomernahyly.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
The love of.

Speaker 8 (35:53):
Nady only one. No no no no no no no no.

Speaker 14 (36:06):
Noanyly, How did you want around?

Speaker 2 (36:28):
I love it?

Speaker 5 (36:32):
After singing that song, I'm not the only one. I
we have both had like an album that is that
was from my first album, and that album is kind
of it's just so it's spread far and wide in
such a beautiful way, does it. I've I've started to

(36:53):
get used to it now and I'm starting to be
okay with it. But as I'm getting older, it's like
it's so it feels hot hot sometimes and hurt sometimes
when you're bringing out music. I bring out music now
that I think is getting better and maturing and everything,
but all people want to hear is missing that song.

(37:17):
And I just like, you're one of very few people
that I think can relate to me in terms of
like having like having an album spread far and wide
like that. Do you ever feel that? Did you ever
feel resentment?

Speaker 1 (37:33):
I never felt resentment. But on my first album, I
was still really new to songwriting, so I only wrote.
There were only three songs on my first album that
I wrote, so I think there was a little bit
of a over the years. I still feel connected to
the album, of course, but I feel more connected to
the ones I wrote, but the bulk of the album

(37:54):
I really didn't write. My bass player wrote, and my
guitar player at the time wrote, and they're still really
close to me. But there is something different about singing
your own words. Yeah, it's really different. So on your
first album, you wrote all the songs, I.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
Did, but they were also I was co writing for
the first time ever too, so which was the whole thing.
It's like, you know, I was still very much there
and writing, but my writing has got more and more me,
I guess as I've got older.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
So yeah, and you feel more yourself you're writing too.

Speaker 5 (38:27):
And I don't. I'm learning to not feel resemblement because
it's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
No, it's a beautiful thing. I think it's easy to
feel resentment. I don't know if I ever felt like
true resentment, but I definitely I have felt really lucky.
But I think you also create the path you're on.
Even though it's luck, it's also you're creating it as
you go along. And I think there's something really special
about an artist who can get to ten years in.

(38:52):
You're ten years in. I'm over twenty years in now
from my first album, and I do feel like I'm
still releasing music that I really believe in, and I
feel like, even if it loses some of the audience,
a lot of the audience does connect to it. And
I feel like by going out and playing shows and
like being inspired, I'm very inspired. The last ten years,
I've felt more inspired than ever, and especially in writing

(39:17):
and playing live. And I think you're doing everything right.
You're surrounding yourself with a band you love, and you're
playing these shows at the Warsaw and you're connecting with
people in a special way. And I think people once
you get twenty years out, you'll see that whatever you're
doing right now, put all that sort of work into
keeping people connected to what you're doing at the moment.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
It's just blocking out the noise.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, yeah, don't think about that, because you win some,
you lose some. I learned that with my first record.
Even my first record was a massive success, was it
was one of those like crazy things, you know, and
even then people talk about, you know again seeing the negative,

(40:05):
and so I learned at that moment, I'm just going
to do what makes me happy. I mean, the first album,
I was doing what made me happy. That's how it
came to be. But okay, I'm not going to worry
about this second album thing. I'm not going to try
to recreate it. I'm just going to let it be
what it was. I probably won't sell as many records
because that is crazy, and I'm okay with that, and

(40:26):
I just want to stay inspired. Because there was a
moment at the end of that whole year and a
half of the first record, I was on tour and
all of a sudden, I wasn't happy and I'm like,
what is happening? And it was because it was too much,
and it was I think I was just doing too
much press, and I just I was like, we're pushing
this album. It's already crazy. Why are you making me

(40:49):
do all this stuff that I don't want to do?
You know, Let's just play music. That's what this is about.
And so I took a step back and that's when
I kind of realized that. So from then and I
really just tried to keep it focused on the things
that bring me joy. Beautiful, you know, and that's a lucky,
very lucky place to be.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
And it sounds like you have an amazing compass within you,
and yeah, it's I feel like I just jumped straight
into the monster's mouth. Yeah, but I think I think
you and then you cal back out again. Well, you're out,
the monster's my friend. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, I think

(41:30):
we all find our ways eventually. And it's when when
people don't that it's really you know, yeah, I think
that's what people don't realize about this world of music
and pop stardom. And and I think fame, you know,
fame is something that can kill you.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
And it's yeah, it's not for everyone. It's not everyone
can handle it. And you feel I feel lucky. Also,
I've had good people around me. Do you feel yeah,
it seems.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
Like you have if I speak about it too much
a Lolways, Yeah, there's just like I have the most
amazing family, beautiful I do. And I have the most
amazing team. Like my manager Jack is just an absolute anchor,
and he's one of my best friends, and he has

(42:18):
grown with me and learnt with me and moved and
learned learned how to flow with me in such a
beautiful way. And everyone in my team, I've just I've
I've and I'm very thankful actually to the artists that
came before me in the UK and something that I've

(42:39):
been learning about recently through do you know None. They're
incredible and She's she's such an an amazing person human
artists and teacher and recently says guided me a little bit,
and it's just awakened me to just the people that

(43:00):
came before me, Boy George and them and George Michael
and all these amazing queer artists that have come before
me in my life and made it possible for me
to have a chance at a healthy crack at this
world of music, you know. And so it's I'm very lucky.

(43:21):
I'm very very lucky, and I've been able to keep
my composure and also part of part of my queerness
has allowed me to do that too. I never had
like I never went I was became very well known
if I knew I was, but I never had like
the screaming girls outside the house or the all of
that stuff. I'd walk into gay bars and everyone been
like who the which was kind of is annoying at

(43:45):
the time, but also just like very very humbling, very
very humbling, because you know, a lot of queer bars
and queer people they care more about straight girl.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
That's very funny.

Speaker 5 (43:57):
So it was. It's always been a beautiful safe space
the land, you know that's good and grounding. Yeah, I'm
happy for you, thank you. I'm very proud of you.
But yeah, it's been beautiful watching your whole whole journey.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
And the music. Let's get back to the music. Did
you you grew up in church, because you seem to
love gospel music and the harmonies sort of lend itself
to that.

Speaker 5 (44:24):
I grew up in church. Really the church, I mean,
when I get down to it, I think that the
music that my mum played at home and the songs
that she would be drawn to from Aretha Franklin too,
Shaka car George Michael, Stevie Wonder, Whitney Houston. When I go,

(44:52):
when I go back to those origins, when I first
started listening to music, and what I was surrounded by.
Luther Vandros was a huge one, actually, one of the biggest.
It all came from the church, definitely, you know, and
all of my mum's favorite songs of theirs came from
the church. And so that was my exposure. And then

(45:12):
I also went to church from a young age. I
went to Catholic school until I was eighteen.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Did you sing in the choir?

Speaker 5 (45:21):
I sang in the choir the whole time, Latin hymns,
Latin hymn ok. Yeah, which I found tough. But then
there was some moments in my secondary school where I
had some amazing music teachers. They loved some gospel songs
and they would have me and the choirs sing some
of those songs in church too. So I got to
experience that in church, and so it's a part of

(45:44):
my life. I wouldn't sound religious. I'm a spiritual person now,
but I would always feel connected and there's certain words
that find their way into my music that come from
the church and I think it's as there's certain feelings
that are so big, and I revert to those words

(46:04):
to explain those feelings.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Sometimes you know, they become universal in a in a
deep way.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
Yeah, yeah for sure. So yeah. But I love gospel music,
and as I've got older, it's just become more and
more for passion and love.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
How many singers do you have in your band?

Speaker 5 (46:22):
I only have three. I mean on all of the
songs that I that you hear choirs on on my music.
Before the music I'm working on now was me. There
was just loads of me and.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
I love doing this, which is so fun fun. Well,
you said in the text message you don't sing harmony?

Speaker 5 (46:41):
No, well I do sing how many when I'm layering
like that?

Speaker 1 (46:45):
But you don't think and dream and harmony? No, you
don't like harmonize. I always go to the background singer
when I'm singing along. Well yeah, I always know.

Speaker 5 (46:55):
I'm always obnoxiously like kind of dueting.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
I always go to the back grounds or the harmonies,
and that's what I hee wow yeah beautiful.

Speaker 5 (47:03):
No, I'm yeah, I'm always I find I find music
like harmonizing and stuff like that. I find it quite
daunting sometimes because I don't have the brain for it.
I'm more of a jazz singer, i'd say, and that's
more of my main influences have come from jazz as well. Really, yeah,

(47:24):
like Frank Sinatra in my house was a massive thing,
and wine house was a huge thing in my house,
and then that led me to Saravon.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Savon's one of my favorites.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
I think she's my favorite artist of all time.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
You know that version of my Funny Valentine where she
goes all over the place, her.

Speaker 5 (47:48):
Singing misty, It's just my favorite thing.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (47:52):
So yeah, I just I love music and I and
I and I'm trying to honor those roots more and
more in the music that I'm making now, which is amazing.
And I'm actually like, I've worked with incredible choir called
the Two City Choir. They're from Philly and from all
over actually, and they've come to New York a few
times now. Wow, And they're on the song to Be

(48:14):
Free and.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Okay, that's who that is. That that's beautiful and they're
insane and like, yeah, well it just feels so.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Right.

Speaker 5 (48:22):
Well I'm feeling from moving to New York, I'm finally
feeling that I've actually got some exposure now to players
and musicians that are actually fit more into what I've
always been.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Inspired by the music you came up with.

Speaker 5 (48:36):
Yeah, because I came up with American music. Yeah. I
love American music, and so it's you know, I sing
an American, you know, I don't sing in English in British,
you know, So there's moments that you can hear it,
but I mainly sing an American. So I I it's
been amazing to be in New York and actually like

(48:58):
to be close to some people where you're like, oh,
that would sound and made that bass player would sound
insane on this, and then you start it's amazing. But
there's still incredible talent in the UK that that has
pulled that together in the past.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
No, it's just a different scene and it's big. It's
maybe bigger here, it's bigger.

Speaker 5 (49:16):
And you're also just like you're rooted to the earth
and of what you're doing, of what you're doing just
listening to jazz music and walking around Manhattan, like that's
what I do now. I listened to I put on
my jazz music and I walk around Manhattan and do
my do my errands, and it's amazing. There's something different

(49:38):
about this to jazz in New York. I don't know
what it is.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
It feels different being here. Yeah, it feels more because
some of it was recorded just down the street. Yeah, yeah,
I had that experience the other night. We were listening
to a live Bill Love's album from the Village Vanguard,
and we're like, thinking that was recorded right over there. Yeah,
it's cool.

Speaker 5 (49:57):
So the spirit of the and there's a romance to
New York that suits me very well.

Speaker 15 (50:03):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
You're still in the honeymoon phase for sure.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
For sure. I mean I've had tough moments the last
year where get me out of here. I'm still trying
to find where that is. I think I'm going to
go to the jungle.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
That's where you want to live next?

Speaker 5 (50:18):
No, I think I want to always live in New York.
But I think I want to jule if I am,
if I'm lucky enough to be to afford somewhere to
escape to, like a little shack. I think I just
want to go to the jungle because I feel like
I live in the jungle now in New York. But
then so I think like I've been going to the
jungle over the last few years ago. Yeah, Costa Rica

(50:39):
and like going. I've also gone to the Caribbean a
bit more because it's only three hours away from here,
and I just like, I think I might be in
my tropical era.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
It's amazing. When I hear that, all I think about
is mosquitoes. Oh my god, in a magnet.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Same, that's my only love me.

Speaker 5 (50:56):
I'm like a cream puff. I mean, they love me.
But you just got a spray. Just get in on
the spray. And the more you live there, you acclimatize.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
They stop liking the way you taste, I guess.

Speaker 5 (51:09):
And also people just don't stay outside that much. I've
noticed people that live there like hours of the day
to stay in and out, whereas when we're there, we're
just like trying to soak up the song.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Well, I saw something that you posted the other day.
You did this beautiful Tom Putty cover.

Speaker 5 (51:26):
Oh gosh ya. Yeah, I first heard that song in
a film called Elizabethtown.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Oh I didn't know the song.

Speaker 5 (51:35):
It's amazing. It's in a film called Elizabethtown with Kirston
Dunce and which was beautiful film. But that song just
knocked me Sideways when I watched that film, and so
I've loved that song for a while. And it's also
been like a little like when I have my big
first heartbreak. I turned to this song a lot, but

(51:59):
there it was just when I was putting this show
together for the Warsaw, there was just this I was
singing stay with Me, and I just really wanted to
start telling some real stories that the Warsaw about that
people have never heard. It's a real life. I went
to a copyright issue with Tom Petty for the songs
stay with Me, and it just like, it was such

(52:22):
a hard thing that was on your first album, So
my first album, that must have felt so bad. It was.
It was so bad. I was so confused. So I
was just so confused, firstly because I was I come
from a hill in the middle of England. I didn't
know who Tom Petty was. I'm gay, Like some gay
people might have known who Tom Petty was when they
were like eleven years old, not me. I was just

(52:44):
listening to women singing the whole time, and his beautiful
music never made its way to my heart until later on.
So when that happened, it was I felt like I
was being robbed.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Well, it feels like a shaming sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
Yeah, yeah, it makes me Yeah. And because it was
in the news everywhere, it was almost like everyone being like,
you're not an original, you know, that's.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Tripping you of your your whatever, your metals or something
at the end of the like the Olympics are.

Speaker 5 (53:13):
And and then when it got to the Grammys though,
I think that there was probably people that wanted me,
you know, taken out of the Grammys and all of
that stuff because they didn't want me to because there
was a reason for me to not be, you know,
awarded for that song. So it was, it was it
was hard, It was confusing and frustrating. And he wrote

(53:37):
me a letter. The night before the Grammys, a letter
came to my door and he wrote me a letter,
and he was so sweet in the letter. He did
say in the letter he said, I'm sorry this still happening.
I think you're amazing. And he said there's only so
many notes on the piano in the letter, which, if

(53:58):
I'm honest, at the time, made me annoyed because I
was like, if you know that, then why are we
doing this?

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, do you know?

Speaker 5 (54:05):
I mean, like, why has this happened, if you're aware
of that. But it's what people don't know about this
stuff is it's more than just the artists. It's everyone
around them and the whole infrastructure of things that come
into play. But when I got the note, I was
a little bit annoyed but also touched. And I at
the time, I was twenty two, and I went from

(54:29):
working in a bar to being known around the world
and traveling around the world touring within two years. So
I had trauma that happened within those years to my
body and my brain, and so I didn't get to
respond to him for a couple of years, and I'm
so upset with myself that I never did right back.

(54:51):
But I didn't write back, and he died, so he
never got to and I never got to write back,
and I feel awful about it and still and that's
why there's a healing going on now for me. When
I I want to sing this song and I want to,
I think I actually want to sing more of his
songs maybe and like every now and then put them
into my set as just an ode to him, because

(55:13):
I feel connected to him. We've connected to each other
some way, and so I did it and it felt
really really good.

Speaker 9 (55:21):
To do it.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, I loved the way you posted about it as well.
It was really beautiful. But that story is insane.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
Is insane, is insane, and it's like the worst part
is I never actually listened to I went back down
the song for years, and then like five years later
I listened to I was like, oh my god, like
it's the exact same you heard it. It's the exact same,
but it's I mean, it's.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
But it's still but it's so different.

Speaker 5 (55:47):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Such different songs, such different and there are only twelve
notes on the piano, you.

Speaker 5 (55:54):
Know, and I did it differently, and he did it differently,
and there was probably someone before here, yes, most likely
did it differently too, you know. So it's it's an
interesting one, but it's definitely definitely changed my you know, Look,
I don't know how i'd feel if someone actually ripped,
like if someone had released a song that sounded exactly
like to Be Free or or something like that. I

(56:16):
don't know how I would feel in the moment. But
what has happened to me will one hundred percent come
into play a little bit. Yeah, And I'm not sure
if I would go forth vigorously.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yeah, that's a really traumatic thing to happen. I feel
like as a young person thrust into the world of music.

Speaker 5 (56:38):
Yeah, And the one thing I would definitely implore is
when this does happen, talk to each other, artist to
artist if that is possible. Yeah, you know, but lawyers
would be like, don't do that, it would I just
wish that, especially when there's two well known artists though
both like you know in pop music, and it's and
it's happened, like sit and talk to each other.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
But again, everybody's got so many people surrounding them that
are doing different things money well. I mean, I think
it's obvious when you hear something that is a real
rip off, Like you know, I hear all these songs
on the radio, and I'm like, that is the product.
It's more about the production. Usually, I feel like they're
just trying to get the exact vibe of the song

(57:21):
from thirty years ago or whatever it was.

Speaker 5 (57:24):
And that does happen. That happens, But it does happen,
And that actually happens subconsciously too. It does, and you've
got to be able to hold your hands up and
be like, that's happened. I do think that people can
also take into account when dealing with the procedures, what
that what the artists are going through. You know, if
you're if you're a very prolific artist that has has
your career and has all this money behind you, then

(57:46):
maybe you can be graceful.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
A little graceful. Yeah, but I think it's really sweet.

Speaker 5 (57:51):
And Tom was graceful by the way, Yeah he was.
He was even in the what ended up happening with
that song. Legally he was graceful. Was lucky.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Well, I like that you're doing this song, and I
like that it's your way of writing him back.

Speaker 5 (58:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
I think it's very sweet.

Speaker 5 (58:07):
What a song.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
It's such well, he has so many great songs, but
this is one I had never heard, and I thought
I'd finally heard them all what I have.

Speaker 5 (58:16):
It's just like I love it.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, they're beautiful.

Speaker 5 (58:20):
I want to do it. I did it differently where
there was more breaks in between each thing. But you'll
hear it when we do it.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Do you want to lead the the bits then? I
think so, Yeah, that way, I won't go to the
court until you do the pick up.

Speaker 5 (58:33):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Is that cool? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Okay, that will help me. Yeah again, we'll see what happens.

Speaker 5 (58:39):
I can sit for this one.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
Okay, cool?

Speaker 8 (58:52):
You want fa.

Speaker 15 (58:56):
So eyes so blue, they looked like weather. When he
need me, I wasn't around.

Speaker 4 (59:14):
That's the way it.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Goes in along. There were times upon.

Speaker 15 (59:27):
There were times two together. I was fleshed to him
through so bitter when in mine and most I let
him down. That's the way it goes in along.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Work goes.

Speaker 8 (59:55):
In work.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
He better round with him then with me?

Speaker 16 (01:00:14):
Mm hmm, here it all work out.

Speaker 15 (01:00:40):
Evly be around with him there with me. Now the
wind is high and the rain is silly, and the
world is around. Say leave me.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
Still.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
I'm then come him when the sun.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
Goes down and never goes away. You know, said.

Speaker 15 (01:01:21):
Hiding that event should better love.

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
With him than with me.

Speaker 15 (01:01:33):
Along again, event should had along with him, and he.

Speaker 10 (01:01:43):
With I try not to cry that whole time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
That turned into such a sad heartbreak.

Speaker 5 (01:02:13):
It's terrible. The way you play is so beautiful.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
The way you say it's so beautiful. It's funny because
the tom version of the song is so like it's
like Irish, I.

Speaker 5 (01:02:25):
Must It's like Irish with like a there's a it's
a it feels like an Asian instrument, right, Yeah, it's
like some Chinese instrument.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Yeah, I think so we came here.

Speaker 5 (01:02:38):
Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Well that was beautiful.

Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
That's beautiful. It's it's like singing it now is like
it's an emotional song for me. But like with the
story that I'm telling, it's also like the one of
the lyrics is like when it mattened most, I let
him down. That's the way it goes all. I'm just
it feels like I feel it's I don't know. There's
so many moments that I've had in my life, especially

(01:03:01):
with artists. I look back at the beginning of my
career and I'm like, that person wrote to me, that
person said something to me, and I'm I didn't I
didn't write back. I didn't write back. Keep the letters.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
I have a few of those two and.

Speaker 5 (01:03:15):
It's it's not it's just because I was running at
such a high speed that I I didn't treasure those
moments enough.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Sometimes you know, Yeah, I have those situations too. It's
weird people. I have messages that I never called the
person back, and I think it was part anxiety too.
It was part busyness, but part anxiety of not knowing how.

Speaker 5 (01:03:37):
To how to fully do it, how to do it.
I remember the first time I met Beyonce, and I've
met her a few times now, but I'm always so
ashamed of the first time I ever met her. She
invited me into a dressing room and I'm such huge
Beyonce fan. She was, and it is always my ultimate
I think actually in today's times. And I went into

(01:04:02):
her dressing room and she was there in a private space,
and I asked for a picture, and you felt bad
about that, awful And I still do to this day,
because it's like it's just like now, I know how
it feels, yea to have someone in your space, and
like I was still very kind and sweet and thankful,
and I'm sure she's used to that happening a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
I'm sure.

Speaker 5 (01:04:25):
I'm just like, damn it. I wish I was cooler.
I wish I was cooler, And I just didn't do
that because I didn't need it. I didn't need a picture. Yeah,
I didn't need a picture.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Don't beat yourself up. I beat myself up about stuff
like that too, But I think it's okay. We're all human, Yeah, yeah,
but yeah, well now you're present. And here's the thing though,
people who reached out to us when we were little
babies starting out, they were already past where we are now,
so they understood, they understood it's okay, yeah for sure.

(01:04:58):
Yeah yeah, and we're older and maybe we'll reach out more.
I'm not good at that. Do you reach out too?

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
I used to?

Speaker 5 (01:05:07):
There was like I remember when like Billie Eilish came
up and a few people, it was like I just
survived my wave of stuff and I and I felt
I wrote a few notes to people just saying like
I'm always here, yeah, And then I just kind of
realized that, like, that's very different what they're going through

(01:05:29):
to what I'm going through. This isn't some this isn't
something that's the same.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Yeah, you know, and you're self conscious about the letter
and yeah, of god, that's me.

Speaker 5 (01:05:38):
I'm just like all the time, Wait, so did you
send it? I did send that, and they replied and
they they and I saw them at their show in
London and they were wonderful to me and very sweet
and was great. But I definitely realized in that moment
that that's probably not my role in an industry. I
think that I if anyone, you know, if anyone ever

(01:06:01):
needs me or wants to talk to me, I'm there
and I would love to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
But you're not going to impose yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
I'm not going to impose myself because we're just so different.
This isn't like a race. It's not a race. It's
it's a it's a music is so personal, and what
you go through and what I go through is so different,
like just my just being queer myself and and and
like what I'm and what you've gone through in your life.
It's just so it's so singular. I see all these

(01:06:28):
amazing artists come out and like they really are just amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
They're amazing, kind of crazy. Yeah it's beautiful. Yeah, well
you're one of them. And thank you so much for
doing this. This is kind of my way of doing
that is getting to be with people and share things
with them.

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
And what an amazing thing to do. It's just it
feels you made me feel very safe today.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
It's good.

Speaker 5 (01:06:51):
Thank you. Just singing hearing you play that song just there,
it's just highlight for me.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Well, I hope I can come to the worst song
one night. I can't wait please Yeah, yay think ooh
that made me happy. Oh that was incredible. I love
all their stories, like I know, just what a human
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
And that's something about the residencies I think is like
you can hear more of these stories, the stories behind
the music, you know, which is really such a big
part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
I think these residencies are kind of I think they're
what a lot of artists want to do nowadays. I've
talked about doing something like that too. It just feels
like a really beautiful way to connect with people and
to sort of also not be so hard on yourself.
Touring can be a hard life, so it's kind of
a nice way to plant yourself somewhere and just to

(01:07:46):
be free, to be free do the thing.

Speaker 7 (01:07:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
If you'd like to know what songs we played today,
we did the song to Be Free that Sam just
released in twenty twenty five. We also did I'm Not
the Only One from in the Lonely Hour, which was
released in twenty fourteen, and we did It'll All Work Out,
the Tom Petty song from Let Me Up I've Had Enough,

(01:08:10):
released in nineteen eighty seven. Special thanks to Sam Smith
for joining us today. We'll be back next week with
Nate Smith. Visit Nora Jones channel and be sure to
subscribe while you're there. Nora Jones Is Playing Along is
a production of iHeart Podcast I'm Your Host Norah Jones.
This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed by Jamie Landry.

(01:08:32):
Audio post production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by
Eliza Frye, Photography by Shervin Linez. Produced by Nora Jones
and Sarah Oda. Executive producers Aaron Wang Kaufman and Jordan
Runtog Marketing Lead Queen and a Key