March 4, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz delve into the complexities of the Ukraine conflict, discussing the implications of U.S. aid and the shifting political landscape. They also reflect on the recent Oscars, highlighting the cultural shifts in entertainment, and conclude with a critical examination of public health accountability in the wake of COVID-19, particularly focusing on the actions of former NIH head Francis Collins. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
#Ukraine #Oscars #publichealth #COVID19 #foreignpolicy #Trump #Zelensky #militaryaid #internationalrelations #Americanpolitics
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Yas wait all back on.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Normally the show with normalist takes for when the news
gets weird.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I am your host, Mary Katherine Camp.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
And I'm Carol Marcowitz. How are you, Mary Katherine, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm up in New York City erman doing some Gutfeld show,
so you can catch me there and having a nice thank.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The Big Apple, Huh, I've heard of it.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
It's cold and there's good food. That's what's going on.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
That really does sum it up.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
So we're gonna kick it off today with a subject
that I dread talking about, and that's Ukraine. I almost
never tweet about it and the topic because I don't
care about it. That's the other thing. I actually probably
care about it more than the average person. I have
family in both Ukraine and in Russia. Actually, my family
in Ukraine was older women and they evacuated at the.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Start of the war.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I dread this conversation because I have a very middle
ground on it, as I think you do as well,
and that's not acceptable in this conversation.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
You have to be.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
All in on one side or another. If you're not
a million percent on the side of fun Ukraine until
they beat Russia. Then that means you're a Putin lover
and you want Russia to take over the world, and
you're probably being paid by them. So there's really no
great spot here. And I also feel very strongly that
(01:26):
I'm not a Putin lover, and I do have a
lot of concerns about Russian influence. And I absolutely think
that they invaded Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
That's sort of the new thing is well Ukraine started it, like, no,
they didn't. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Having said all that, I looked up how much money
has gone to this, and there's a bunch of different
numbers floating around, but I tried to go to a
fairly left wing source, so I went to the BBC.
The United States has spent one hundred and nineteen point
seven billion on aid between January twenty two in December
twenty four. Russia spent eighty four billion in twenty twenty
(02:06):
three on their entire military budget, So we are giving
Ukraine more than Russia's entire budget. Like most Americans, I
wonder how much longer this.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Can go on and what's the point.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And I say this again as someone who wants Ukraine
to win. I want them to punish Russia for invading,
and I think that the American strategic goal was to
make sure that Russia doesn't try this.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
With other countries.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
But one thing that I didn't hear a lot of
people say over this weekend after this blow up was
that this has been a disaster for Russia.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Russia has shown they can't be even Ukraine. And the people.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That are sort of arguing that, no, no, Russia's doing
really well, it's only because Ukraine gets the funding from
Europe and from America, and if they didn't get this funding, well,
then Russia would be winning. You know. There's a saying,
if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
So spare me your ifs. They can't beat Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's where I am.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And that's important for the world.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
The blow up you refer to unless you've been under
a rock, is the conflagration in the Oval Office, where
many people were in attendance, but principally the fight was
between President Trump, Vice President Vance and Zelensky, the president
of Ukraine. Yeah, and there was a long meeting before that,
(03:29):
about forty minutes long before it became an argument, and
there's a lot of back and forth about who started
what I will say just and I'm not making light
of this a serious subject here, I do think the
Real Housewives nature of this public blow up means that
a lot of Americans who might not otherwise care or
(03:51):
notice foreign policy arguments are now noticing them. And there's
a lot of reconstructions about what Zelensky.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Said when and what Vance said. Win and I am
with you.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And by the way, when you come to this show,
sometimes the normalish take is not the hot take.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Right, That's what we're trying to do here. We're trying
to do the normalish take. And I think that where
we are is I think where a lot of people are,
and so they can't say it because then you get
yelled at, like really yelling.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
You do get yelled at.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I want everybody to respect the facts on the ground,
whether it's warfare or politics. Okay, And some of the
facts on the ground are that, for instance, fact Russia
invaded Ukraine. That's a ground war in Europe. That's dangerous
for the world. Incentivizing that for Russia and not being
a leader on this front can be dangerous for the
US in some very serious ways.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Another fact, though, is that the politics have shifted on this.
One of the reasons the politics have shifted on this
is because when it comes to warfare, the American.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Voters a little worn out.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right Iraq, Afghanistan, having boots on the ground has been exhausting.
Many people have paid blood and treasure in their own
families and friends circles. They watched US pull out of Iraq,
they watched US pull out of Afghanistan with devastating results,
and said.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Like, what are we doing.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You're making the argument that we're important to put these
forces forward in the world, and then this is the result.
Now in Ukraine, we have money at stake, we do
not have boots on the ground. That's a very important distinction.
But people have elected Trump saying, I think in large
part because he talked about this on the trail, saying
to him, yes, we think Russia is the bad guy. Ukraine,
(05:32):
for the most part, we think is the good guy.
You got to give us specifics on what the ask
is here, right, That's the part that people need, and
that's the part where it blew up between Zelenski, Trump
and Vance was getting to the nitty gritty of are
we going to do the minerals deal? And if we
do the minerals deal, which is sort of to me
(05:54):
looks like a down payment on having a discussion about
the security assurances, then what do those look like? And
the specifics of that is where it went off the
rails exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
And so the other thing is that, you know, one
of the things that Trump said during the campaign, he
actually said some very pro Ukraine things, including that if
Putin doesn't want to deal, then he's gonna send more
money to Ukraine. I mean, he said that. And so
I feel like this idea that oh Trump just loves
Putin and hates Ukraine, it comes from just hating Trump,
(06:29):
which I get. You know, people who support Ukraine maybe
have some crossover with hating Trump. But and you know,
you and I talk about this on the show a lot,
But there is a way to deal with Trump.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
And I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
To say Zelenski has failed at that is kind of
an understatement of the century. But he's also just failed
at dealing with anyone. I don't know which president sits
there as he argues in front of cameras and you know,
kind of beerates them. There was a news story that
circulated it again over the weekend that d Lensky and
(07:02):
Biden had had this blow up in private that we
didn't get to see in front of the cameras, And
obviously these kinds of things do happen off off camera,
and this is one that happened on So like most Americans,
I think you and I are wondering how much longer
and what's the point? And the fact that Ukraine has
gotten to a stalemate is very impressive and.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Well, and Zelenski makes the point that Ukrainian lives have
been lost doing this favor for this stand, which is
to mess with Russia and sort of reveal its weaknesses,
and that's.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
A real thing, sure, But again, they're getting more than
Russia's entire military budget and they haven't been able to
push Russia out.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
So what happens next?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
And I'm extremely sympathetic to the idea that what did
this war like? What did we fight this war for?
From the Ukrainian perspective? Only to have to give up
lands that we could have given up on day one.
I don't know that there's going to be a great
answer there, and it's deeply unfortunate and I don't like
(08:06):
to see Russia win. And all of this can be true,
while also saying that there has to be some sort
of endgame.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, there's also it's interesting to me that this minerals deal,
which is okay, So the idea from the Trump people
is we sign the minerals deal. This gives America an
economic stake in the future of Ukraine, and that would
a give you some assurances to begin with, and then
get us to the table to hopefully start talking about assurances.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
In the meantime, we're not being super.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Like forthright about our feelings about Putin, so that maybe
he would come to the table also right and then
with good reasons. Zelensky says, I'm afraid if I signed
this minerals deal, I don't get any assurances, and that
you guys will go to the table with Putin and
I'm cut out of it and I end up with a.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Very bad deal.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
But again, the.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Political ground shift, and it is Zelensky's job to understand
what the pitch should be in that room, and I
think not being there with the translator, oh yeah, such
a bad call and just.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Doing it there. There's plenty of other places you could
have done it.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
And then my last weird thing again, there's this is
like the Baldoni like Lively but foreign policy right. Scott
Bessant was in Ukraine to sign the minerals deal. He
went all the way to Ukraine to do that. They
didn't sign it there. Reportedly, Zelenski said, let's sign it
in Munich. Rubio and Vance are there. These are big
name people, right. They didn't sign it there. And then
(09:36):
he said, come, can I meet you in Washington. Everybody
said sure, let's all get together sign it there and
it doesn't get signed.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Again. What's going on?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Right?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Right? There's obviously more at play here, and there's all
these again, people are so entrenched in their opinions and
in their sides on this. I actually can't believe that
this is probably the most contentious issue in America. Maybe
it's just on X, but it really is extremely extremely
contentious and a lot of nonsense being.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Spilled all over the place.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
But I would also just say so Europe is deeply
disappointed in America and they're very furrowed browt about the
whole thing. They went so far as inviting the Canadian
leader to come to join them for a little pow
wow to figure out what they should do next. But
let me, let me tell you some numbers from Europe.
Denmark says sixty six percent of Danes say that Ukraine
(10:36):
is not getting.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Enough Western support.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So you think how much how many Danes would say
that Denmark should increase their level of support. Only seventeen
percent say that they should increase their level support. These
numbers are exactly the same in Sweden, Spain, Britain. Britain
has fifty eight percent says the Ukraine is not getting
enough Western support, but then only twenty one percent sent
(11:00):
one to increase British support to Ukraine. So they're facing
the same problems that we're facing in America, which is
the populace is wondering what is this money going towards?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
What is the goal here? Is that goal feasible?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And Europe hasn't had to do that in a long
time because we do the heavy lifting. That doesn't do anything, Yeah,
but we do.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
The US does the heavy lifting.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
And one of Trump's bugaboos from the minute he took
office was y'all need to start pitching in more. I
do worry a little bit about relinquishing US leadership and
that when that happens and bad big power see it,
that goes badly for the world in general, even though
it is very hard for us to remain leaders and
(11:47):
to fork over the money necessary to.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Do that, right, I worry about that too, But then
I look at the other countries and I'm like, who
are they going to turn to in a time of crisis.
It's going to be right back to us.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It was a thing that circulated recently that was like
home Depot is worth more than like the top fifty European.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Startups of the last few years or something.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, you know it just they're talking like really successful startups.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
But it's like it just.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
We have a different level of prosperity.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yes, that's it.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
We had, and we have the monies.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And the number of hours we work per week and
the number of innovations we create. Like is it is
a different culture? Yeah that produces that.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Well.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
So I don't know, I don't know if you want
to turn Yeah, this is no solution. But if you
have felt that perhaps you were not represented in either
side of the insanity over the last few days, I
hope you have found something here that you could agree with,
or we could just part ways knowing that we haven't
solved the problem.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Where shall we go to something a little well.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
A little lighter.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Let's go, Mary Catherine.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
We'll be right back on normally.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, the Oscars happened, Carol. You know, I'm torn on
whether to watch the Oscars or engage at all.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I don't watch them live, like that's what the internet's for.
But Conan O'Brien was the host.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I had watched a handful of the movies this year,
maybe not even a handful.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
That's probably too generous, and I did. I do think
the hiring of Conan.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Was a little bit of a vibe shift move, yeh,
because Conan is an absurdist, hilarious, non political right comedian. Yeah,
and I think you made like one Russia joke during
the night. It was very low key and very funny,
a lot of silly skits, and I'm there for that.
I feel like Trump gave permission for comedians to just
(13:47):
do the thing which is entertaining.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Yeah, permission to be funny again.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, I didn't watch any of it, and I don't
and I haven't seen any of the movies, but I
some clips and I thought that it was a more
normal Oscars than previous clips have shown. They did, however,
start with the Land acknowledgment by Julian Howe, right that Huff.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Sorry, also just like I don't mind Julian Huff, but
it is funny to do a Land acknowledgement from the
whitest person you could find.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Well, I would say that the only thing I know
about her, I literally could not name anything that she's in.
The only thing I know about her is that she
did blackface a few years ago. She Yeah, during Halloween.
Everybody was like, you're not allowed to do that.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
No, you're not allowed to do that. I did not
know that.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, So that's my total knowledge of her, and it's
so it was extra funny that she was doing the
Land acknowledgment, which was all run.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Through the Big Awards, so everybody knows. Best picture is Anora.
That's a story. Apparently it's about a sex worker. I
don't know the details. Best actress Mikey Madison for Anora,
and she's a real newcomer. Best actor Adrian Brodie for
The Brutal, which is a Holocaust survivor story a man
who comes to America and becomes an architect here.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Best supporting actor.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Kieran Culkin A Real Pain, which is another Holocaust focused
drama about two cousins who go to the Old Country
to see the sites. Best supporting actress Zoe's Aldana. That
is Amelia Perez, which is the That's the movie that
sounds like it can't be Real, which is about an
(15:30):
illegal immigrant inmate who wants to transition and the valiant
lawyer who helped her.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I thought it was like a cartel head.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Oh yeah, maybe so yeah. And it's a musical.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
It's a musical, right. I've seen Zoe's Aldana, like a
little clip of her singing I want to know about
sexchanges want.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
It is truly, truly ridiculous. Best director was the guy
who who directed Nora. His name is Sean Baker. So
those are the major ones. There was a really adorable
moment I like, that's fine when yeah, Kieran Culkin, who
won Best Supporting Actor for a Real Pain, took the
(16:13):
stage and made a.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Deal with his wife.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Let's watch it.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
I have to thank my wife Jess for absolutely everything,
forgiving my favorite people in the world. This is Please
don't play the music, because I want to tell a
really quick story about jazz. About a year ago, I
was in the stage like this, and I very stupidly
publicly said that I want a third kid from her
because she said if I won the award, I would
she would give me the kid. It turns out she
said that because she didn't think I was gonna win.
(16:40):
But and people came up to her and were like,
you know, really annoying her.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I think I think it got to her.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
But anyway, after the show, we're walking through a parking lot.
She's holding the Emmy. We're trying to find her car. Emily,
you were there, so you're a witness, and she goes,
oh god, I did say that. I guess I owe
you a third kid. And I turned to her and
I said, really, I want four, and she turned me.
I swear to god, this happenage just over a year ago.
She said, I will give you four when you win
an Oscar. I held my hand out, she shook it,
(17:12):
and I have not brought it up once until just now.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
You remember that, honey, you do? Okay?
Speaker 5 (17:16):
Then I just have this to say to you, Jazz,
love of my life. Yave little faith, no pressure. I
love you.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'm really sorry I.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Did this again. And let's get cracking on those kids.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
What do you say you've little faith.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I know. It's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, that was so sweet, so spontaneous, so cute, and
the idea of just like a dude who would like
more kids with his wife and Hollywood is sort of
unique interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I feel like I've been starved for this.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Right right. I think a lot of people were like
surprised by that whole interaction. And usually the guy, you know,
forgets to name his wife all together.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
And that's the end of that. But yeah, that was
really nice.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Like I want them to join the four kid club,
as I say, it is the it's the official number
at which people are like, but what's going on with you?
And he could just be like, I want an Oscar,
That's what's going on with us.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
I'm rich. There's one more little clip that I'll play,
which I just thought was sweet that they did this.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
They brought LA firefighters to the Oscars and they let
them deliver a pretty good joke banger.
Speaker 6 (18:27):
Well, our hearts go out to all of those who
have lost their homes. And I'm talking about the producers
of Joker too.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Damn best delivery of the night, all.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Right, It's perfect because you can't be mad at the
firefighters right.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
It was joker too. Also a musical. Yes, I think
they should stop doing this. I mean musicals can be
fun and Wicked was great, but like a regular movie
that you turn into a musical, like, don't do that.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I stop. Think you're correct, they should stop. Take a pause.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
There was one overtly well Emilia Perez. Of course, their
their stuff was a vertly political. There was one film
that won for Best Documentary called No Other Land that
was very pro Palestinian and it had a liberal Israeli
and a Palestinian director producer Combo, who both spoke, and
several slav Of Ukrainians from the from the stage. I
(19:27):
guess one country that gets invaded, you're it's okay to
stand up for them another invader, yes.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Less us right on x an account I follow, a
Jewish commedian named Eli Liebowitz said, I can't help but
wonder when we'll be seeing a documentary by Israeli and
Palestinian filmmakers to partner together on a documentary depicting Kamas's corruption,
manipulation and their brutality of Israelis as well as that
of Palestinians in Gaza. We won't hold our breath for
(19:54):
that one.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Adrian Birdie did make a reference to fighting anti Semitism.
Appreciate since he's in it. Ye, that about did it
for the Oscars.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Last, my last comment is you posted about my cousin Vinny,
a movie I have seen and loved, and I always
thought Marissa Toelly deserved that oscar. She was fantastic. And
that was like a time when we all watched the
movies and maybe we can get.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
Back to that.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
No, it is I said, this is the era of
someone won an Oscar for a movie I vaguely watched
on a plane.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Right, I don't even I mean, I don't even get there.
I have someone won an oscar for a movie. I
read an article about, yeah, or heard some controversy or
heard like Ben Shapiro, like give a little synopsis.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Of what it's about of those movies. And I was wrong.
I watched a real paint and it was decent.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Okay, Yeah, so that's it. Sorry, guys, We're going to
take a short break and come right back with normally.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Stuff we're still mad about.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, we got a doozy this week. Francis Collins is
leaving the NIH.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
He was the head of the of the NIH during
the time of COVID, which, by the way, we're coming
up on the the old five year anniversary. He and
emails has been found through FOYA to have hidden the
idea of a lab leak and that theory and to
have actively covered it up. He never had randomized control
(21:26):
trials for mask wearing. He insisted on TV many times
that kids were very at risk wearing masks indoors was
really helpful, didn't specify the mask all sorts of things.
So he's often to the sunset, and many on the
public health worshiping side of the left are like, look
(21:47):
at what we've lost. And I say, we lost a
lot of public trusts because of him.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Right, And when they talk about vaccine numbers being down,
you know in other vaccines, not the COVID vaccine, they
could trace it back to being live to during the
COVID years. And it's going to be very, very very
hard to recover from that. I know you and I
predicted it a lot at the time. We're seeing the
results of it now.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Here, we are living in a world that his lies
led us to. And I'm really looking forward to the
new crop of people. Obviously, Ja Poticharia is fantastic and
we can't wait to see him, you know, do what.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
He does best.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
One of the very people who Collins tried to silence.
So that's nice to see him rise. And in new
news today, nonetheless, I am very, very mad about it.
The New York Times has a guest essay by Ian
Lipkin and Ralph Barrick. Recent virus research should raise alarm.
(22:47):
In a series of experiments, the scientists show that a
virus that has a weird name can efficiently infect cells
of humans and a wide range of other animal cells.
The findings raised the possibility that humans and other animals
could be infected by this virus. This coronavirus belongs to
a subgroup of viruses that are classified alongside the one
that causes mers and that can have fatality rates far
(23:11):
higher than that of the virus that caused the COVID pandemic.
And wouldn't you know that a lot of people working
on this are associated with the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
And further, they are doing these experiments at a lab
that is not the proper level of security protocols to
protect against this kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
No lessons have been learned, and they're like, let's just
try this one more time.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
What are we doing?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yeah, I feel like we should let somebody know that
this is a bad idea and it could lead to
a worldwide outbreak. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
The scientists explain that the levels of security for research
laboratories go from BSL one the lowest.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
To BSL four.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
They explain that four are the ones that you see
in movies where scientists around and space suits and stuff
with hoses that covered these experiments were done. And I
believe BSL two a designation that is not standardized and
not formally recognized with centators for disease control and prevention,
and that we think is insufficient for work with potentially
(24:19):
dangerous respiratory viruses.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Level two Like you see the uber like you know,
eats delivery driver walking around in the background being like
this salad is this?
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Like what?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I can't I don't even know what the name of
this one is. I can't even read it out. It's
too many, too many figures. But I fear that in
the near future I will have to know the name
of hk U five CoV two because they.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Will have let it out of the laboratory.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Yeah, we'll just call it COVID twenty six.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
You know, can we not? We can?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
We cannot not. I mean this is horrifying.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I mean, I'm glad it's in the New York Times.
They're just like saying the thing, like, there's a lab
doing this stuff. We should be worried about it. So
we're ahead of the game on that front. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Well, I don't root for COVID twenty six, but I
will say that I will be pressuring you hardcore to
move to Florida should.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
This go down again.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, this time you cannot wait it out over.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
There, number two, we can't do it. Do it again.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Thanks for joining us on normally normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get
in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally
Yas wait all back on.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Normally the show with normalist takes for when the news
gets weird.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I am your host, Mary Katherine Camp.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
And I'm Carol Marcowitz. How are you, Mary Katherine, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm up in New York City erman doing some Gutfeld show,
so you can catch me there and having a nice thank.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The Big Apple, Huh, I've heard of it.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
It's cold and there's good food. That's what's going on.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
That really does sum it up.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
So we're gonna kick it off today with a subject
that I dread talking about, and that's Ukraine. I almost
never tweet about it and the topic because I don't
care about it. That's the other thing. I actually probably
care about it more than the average person. I have
family in both Ukraine and in Russia. Actually, my family
in Ukraine was older women and they evacuated at the.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Start of the war.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I dread this conversation because I have a very middle
ground on it, as I think you do as well,
and that's not acceptable in this conversation.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
You have to be.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
All in on one side or another. If you're not
a million percent on the side of fun Ukraine until
they beat Russia. Then that means you're a Putin lover
and you want Russia to take over the world, and
you're probably being paid by them. So there's really no
great spot here. And I also feel very strongly that
(01:26):
I'm not a Putin lover, and I do have a
lot of concerns about Russian influence. And I absolutely think
that they invaded Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
That's sort of the new thing is well Ukraine started it, like, no,
they didn't. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Having said all that, I looked up how much money
has gone to this, and there's a bunch of different
numbers floating around, but I tried to go to a
fairly left wing source, so I went to the BBC.
The United States has spent one hundred and nineteen point
seven billion on aid between January twenty two in December
twenty four. Russia spent eighty four billion in twenty twenty
(02:06):
three on their entire military budget, So we are giving
Ukraine more than Russia's entire budget. Like most Americans, I
wonder how much longer this.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Can go on and what's the point.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And I say this again as someone who wants Ukraine
to win. I want them to punish Russia for invading,
and I think that the American strategic goal was to
make sure that Russia doesn't try this.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
With other countries.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
But one thing that I didn't hear a lot of
people say over this weekend after this blow up was
that this has been a disaster for Russia.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Russia has shown they can't be even Ukraine. And the people.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That are sort of arguing that, no, no, Russia's doing
really well, it's only because Ukraine gets the funding from
Europe and from America, and if they didn't get this funding, well,
then Russia would be winning. You know. There's a saying,
if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
So spare me your ifs. They can't beat Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's where I am.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And that's important for the world.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
The blow up you refer to unless you've been under
a rock, is the conflagration in the Oval Office, where
many people were in attendance, but principally the fight was
between President Trump, Vice President Vance and Zelensky, the president
of Ukraine. Yeah, and there was a long meeting before that,
(03:29):
about forty minutes long before it became an argument, and
there's a lot of back and forth about who started
what I will say just and I'm not making light
of this a serious subject here, I do think the
Real Housewives nature of this public blow up means that
a lot of Americans who might not otherwise care or
(03:51):
notice foreign policy arguments are now noticing them. And there's
a lot of reconstructions about what Zelensky.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Said when and what Vance said. Win and I am
with you.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And by the way, when you come to this show,
sometimes the normalish take is not the hot take.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Right, That's what we're trying to do here. We're trying
to do the normalish take. And I think that where
we are is I think where a lot of people are,
and so they can't say it because then you get
yelled at, like really yelling.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
You do get yelled at.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I want everybody to respect the facts on the ground,
whether it's warfare or politics. Okay, And some of the
facts on the ground are that, for instance, fact Russia
invaded Ukraine. That's a ground war in Europe. That's dangerous
for the world. Incentivizing that for Russia and not being
a leader on this front can be dangerous for the
US in some very serious ways.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Another fact, though, is that the politics have shifted on this.
One of the reasons the politics have shifted on this
is because when it comes to warfare, the American.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Voters a little worn out.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right Iraq, Afghanistan, having boots on the ground has been exhausting.
Many people have paid blood and treasure in their own
families and friends circles. They watched US pull out of Iraq,
they watched US pull out of Afghanistan with devastating results,
and said.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Like, what are we doing.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You're making the argument that we're important to put these
forces forward in the world, and then this is the result.
Now in Ukraine, we have money at stake, we do
not have boots on the ground. That's a very important distinction.
But people have elected Trump saying, I think in large
part because he talked about this on the trail, saying
to him, yes, we think Russia is the bad guy. Ukraine,
(05:32):
for the most part, we think is the good guy.
You got to give us specifics on what the ask
is here, right, That's the part that people need, and
that's the part where it blew up between Zelenski, Trump
and Vance was getting to the nitty gritty of are
we going to do the minerals deal? And if we
do the minerals deal, which is sort of to me
(05:54):
looks like a down payment on having a discussion about
the security assurances, then what do those look like? And
the specifics of that is where it went off the
rails exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
And so the other thing is that, you know, one
of the things that Trump said during the campaign, he
actually said some very pro Ukraine things, including that if
Putin doesn't want to deal, then he's gonna send more
money to Ukraine. I mean, he said that. And so
I feel like this idea that oh Trump just loves
Putin and hates Ukraine, it comes from just hating Trump,
(06:29):
which I get. You know, people who support Ukraine maybe
have some crossover with hating Trump. But and you know,
you and I talk about this on the show a lot,
But there is a way to deal with Trump.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
And I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
To say Zelenski has failed at that is kind of
an understatement of the century. But he's also just failed
at dealing with anyone. I don't know which president sits
there as he argues in front of cameras and you know,
kind of beerates them. There was a news story that
circulated it again over the weekend that d Lensky and
(07:02):
Biden had had this blow up in private that we
didn't get to see in front of the cameras, And
obviously these kinds of things do happen off off camera,
and this is one that happened on So like most Americans,
I think you and I are wondering how much longer
and what's the point? And the fact that Ukraine has
gotten to a stalemate is very impressive and.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Well, and Zelenski makes the point that Ukrainian lives have
been lost doing this favor for this stand, which is
to mess with Russia and sort of reveal its weaknesses,
and that's.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
A real thing, sure, But again, they're getting more than
Russia's entire military budget and they haven't been able to
push Russia out.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
So what happens next?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
And I'm extremely sympathetic to the idea that what did
this war like? What did we fight this war for?
From the Ukrainian perspective? Only to have to give up
lands that we could have given up on day one.
I don't know that there's going to be a great
answer there, and it's deeply unfortunate and I don't like
(08:06):
to see Russia win. And all of this can be true,
while also saying that there has to be some sort
of endgame.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, there's also it's interesting to me that this minerals deal,
which is okay, So the idea from the Trump people
is we sign the minerals deal. This gives America an
economic stake in the future of Ukraine, and that would
a give you some assurances to begin with, and then
get us to the table to hopefully start talking about assurances.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
In the meantime, we're not being super.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Like forthright about our feelings about Putin, so that maybe
he would come to the table also right and then
with good reasons. Zelensky says, I'm afraid if I signed
this minerals deal, I don't get any assurances, and that
you guys will go to the table with Putin and
I'm cut out of it and I end up with a.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Very bad deal.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
But again, the.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Political ground shift, and it is Zelensky's job to understand
what the pitch should be in that room, and I
think not being there with the translator, oh yeah, such
a bad call and just.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Doing it there. There's plenty of other places you could
have done it.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
And then my last weird thing again, there's this is
like the Baldoni like Lively but foreign policy right. Scott
Bessant was in Ukraine to sign the minerals deal. He
went all the way to Ukraine to do that. They
didn't sign it there. Reportedly, Zelenski said, let's sign it
in Munich. Rubio and Vance are there. These are big
name people, right. They didn't sign it there. And then
(09:36):
he said, come, can I meet you in Washington. Everybody
said sure, let's all get together sign it there and
it doesn't get signed.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Again. What's going on?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Right?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Right? There's obviously more at play here, and there's all
these again, people are so entrenched in their opinions and
in their sides on this. I actually can't believe that
this is probably the most contentious issue in America. Maybe
it's just on X, but it really is extremely extremely
contentious and a lot of nonsense being.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Spilled all over the place.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
But I would also just say so Europe is deeply
disappointed in America and they're very furrowed browt about the
whole thing. They went so far as inviting the Canadian
leader to come to join them for a little pow
wow to figure out what they should do next. But
let me, let me tell you some numbers from Europe.
Denmark says sixty six percent of Danes say that Ukraine
(10:36):
is not getting.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Enough Western support.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So you think how much how many Danes would say
that Denmark should increase their level of support. Only seventeen
percent say that they should increase their level support. These
numbers are exactly the same in Sweden, Spain, Britain. Britain
has fifty eight percent says the Ukraine is not getting
enough Western support, but then only twenty one percent sent
(11:00):
one to increase British support to Ukraine. So they're facing
the same problems that we're facing in America, which is
the populace is wondering what is this money going towards?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
What is the goal here? Is that goal feasible?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And Europe hasn't had to do that in a long
time because we do the heavy lifting. That doesn't do anything, Yeah,
but we do.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
The US does the heavy lifting.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
And one of Trump's bugaboos from the minute he took
office was y'all need to start pitching in more. I
do worry a little bit about relinquishing US leadership and
that when that happens and bad big power see it,
that goes badly for the world in general, even though
it is very hard for us to remain leaders and
(11:47):
to fork over the money necessary to.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Do that, right, I worry about that too, But then
I look at the other countries and I'm like, who
are they going to turn to in a time of crisis.
It's going to be right back to us.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It was a thing that circulated recently that was like
home Depot is worth more than like the top fifty European.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Startups of the last few years or something.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, you know it just they're talking like really successful startups.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
But it's like it just.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
We have a different level of prosperity.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yes, that's it.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
We had, and we have the monies.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And the number of hours we work per week and
the number of innovations we create. Like is it is
a different culture? Yeah that produces that.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Well.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
So I don't know, I don't know if you want
to turn Yeah, this is no solution. But if you
have felt that perhaps you were not represented in either
side of the insanity over the last few days, I
hope you have found something here that you could agree with,
or we could just part ways knowing that we haven't
solved the problem.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Where shall we go to something a little well.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
A little lighter.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Let's go, Mary Catherine.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
We'll be right back on normally.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, the Oscars happened, Carol. You know, I'm torn on
whether to watch the Oscars or engage at all.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I don't watch them live, like that's what the internet's for.
But Conan O'Brien was the host.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I had watched a handful of the movies this year,
maybe not even a handful.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
That's probably too generous, and I did. I do think
the hiring of Conan.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Was a little bit of a vibe shift move, yeh,
because Conan is an absurdist, hilarious, non political right comedian. Yeah,
and I think you made like one Russia joke during
the night. It was very low key and very funny,
a lot of silly skits, and I'm there for that.
I feel like Trump gave permission for comedians to just
(13:47):
do the thing which is entertaining.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Yeah, permission to be funny again.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, I didn't watch any of it, and I don't
and I haven't seen any of the movies, but I
some clips and I thought that it was a more
normal Oscars than previous clips have shown. They did, however,
start with the Land acknowledgment by Julian Howe, right that Huff.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Sorry, also just like I don't mind Julian Huff, but
it is funny to do a Land acknowledgement from the
whitest person you could find.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Well, I would say that the only thing I know
about her, I literally could not name anything that she's in.
The only thing I know about her is that she
did blackface a few years ago. She Yeah, during Halloween.
Everybody was like, you're not allowed to do that.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
No, you're not allowed to do that. I did not
know that.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, So that's my total knowledge of her, and it's
so it was extra funny that she was doing the
Land acknowledgment, which was all run.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Through the Big Awards, so everybody knows. Best picture is Anora.
That's a story. Apparently it's about a sex worker. I
don't know the details. Best actress Mikey Madison for Anora,
and she's a real newcomer. Best actor Adrian Brodie for
The Brutal, which is a Holocaust survivor story a man
who comes to America and becomes an architect here.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Best supporting actor.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Kieran Culkin A Real Pain, which is another Holocaust focused
drama about two cousins who go to the Old Country
to see the sites. Best supporting actress Zoe's Aldana. That
is Amelia Perez, which is the That's the movie that
sounds like it can't be Real, which is about an
(15:30):
illegal immigrant inmate who wants to transition and the valiant
lawyer who helped her.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I thought it was like a cartel head.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Oh yeah, maybe so yeah. And it's a musical.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
It's a musical, right. I've seen Zoe's Aldana, like a
little clip of her singing I want to know about
sexchanges want.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
It is truly, truly ridiculous. Best director was the guy
who who directed Nora. His name is Sean Baker. So
those are the major ones. There was a really adorable
moment I like, that's fine when yeah, Kieran Culkin, who
won Best Supporting Actor for a Real Pain, took the
(16:13):
stage and made a.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Deal with his wife.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Let's watch it.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
I have to thank my wife Jess for absolutely everything,
forgiving my favorite people in the world. This is Please
don't play the music, because I want to tell a
really quick story about jazz. About a year ago, I
was in the stage like this, and I very stupidly
publicly said that I want a third kid from her
because she said if I won the award, I would
she would give me the kid. It turns out she
said that because she didn't think I was gonna win.
(16:40):
But and people came up to her and were like,
you know, really annoying her.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I think I think it got to her.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
But anyway, after the show, we're walking through a parking lot.
She's holding the Emmy. We're trying to find her car. Emily,
you were there, so you're a witness, and she goes,
oh god, I did say that. I guess I owe
you a third kid. And I turned to her and
I said, really, I want four, and she turned me.
I swear to god, this happenage just over a year ago.
She said, I will give you four when you win
an Oscar. I held my hand out, she shook it,
(17:12):
and I have not brought it up once until just now.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
You remember that, honey, you do? Okay?
Speaker 5 (17:16):
Then I just have this to say to you, Jazz,
love of my life. Yave little faith, no pressure. I
love you.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'm really sorry I.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Did this again. And let's get cracking on those kids.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
What do you say you've little faith.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I know. It's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, that was so sweet, so spontaneous, so cute, and
the idea of just like a dude who would like
more kids with his wife and Hollywood is sort of
unique interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I feel like I've been starved for this.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Right right. I think a lot of people were like
surprised by that whole interaction. And usually the guy, you know,
forgets to name his wife all together.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
And that's the end of that. But yeah, that was
really nice.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Like I want them to join the four kid club,
as I say, it is the it's the official number
at which people are like, but what's going on with you?
And he could just be like, I want an Oscar,
That's what's going on with us.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
I'm rich. There's one more little clip that I'll play,
which I just thought was sweet that they did this.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
They brought LA firefighters to the Oscars and they let
them deliver a pretty good joke banger.
Speaker 6 (18:27):
Well, our hearts go out to all of those who
have lost their homes. And I'm talking about the producers
of Joker too.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Damn best delivery of the night, all.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Right, It's perfect because you can't be mad at the
firefighters right.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
It was joker too. Also a musical. Yes, I think
they should stop doing this. I mean musicals can be
fun and Wicked was great, but like a regular movie
that you turn into a musical, like, don't do that.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I stop. Think you're correct, they should stop. Take a pause.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
There was one overtly well Emilia Perez. Of course, their
their stuff was a vertly political. There was one film
that won for Best Documentary called No Other Land that
was very pro Palestinian and it had a liberal Israeli
and a Palestinian director producer Combo, who both spoke, and
several slav Of Ukrainians from the from the stage. I
(19:27):
guess one country that gets invaded, you're it's okay to
stand up for them another invader, yes.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Less us right on x an account I follow, a
Jewish commedian named Eli Liebowitz said, I can't help but
wonder when we'll be seeing a documentary by Israeli and
Palestinian filmmakers to partner together on a documentary depicting Kamas's corruption,
manipulation and their brutality of Israelis as well as that
of Palestinians in Gaza. We won't hold our breath for
(19:54):
that one.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Adrian Birdie did make a reference to fighting anti Semitism.
Appreciate since he's in it. Ye, that about did it
for the Oscars.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Last, my last comment is you posted about my cousin Vinny,
a movie I have seen and loved, and I always
thought Marissa Toelly deserved that oscar. She was fantastic. And
that was like a time when we all watched the
movies and maybe we can get.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
Back to that.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
No, it is I said, this is the era of
someone won an Oscar for a movie I vaguely watched
on a plane.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Right, I don't even I mean, I don't even get there.
I have someone won an oscar for a movie. I
read an article about, yeah, or heard some controversy or
heard like Ben Shapiro, like give a little synopsis.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Of what it's about of those movies. And I was wrong.
I watched a real paint and it was decent.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Okay, Yeah, so that's it. Sorry, guys, We're going to
take a short break and come right back with normally.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Stuff we're still mad about.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, we got a doozy this week. Francis Collins is
leaving the NIH.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
He was the head of the of the NIH during
the time of COVID, which, by the way, we're coming
up on the the old five year anniversary. He and
emails has been found through FOYA to have hidden the
idea of a lab leak and that theory and to
have actively covered it up. He never had randomized control
(21:26):
trials for mask wearing. He insisted on TV many times
that kids were very at risk wearing masks indoors was
really helpful, didn't specify the mask all sorts of things.
So he's often to the sunset, and many on the
public health worshiping side of the left are like, look
(21:47):
at what we've lost. And I say, we lost a
lot of public trusts because of him.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Right, And when they talk about vaccine numbers being down,
you know in other vaccines, not the COVID vaccine, they
could trace it back to being live to during the
COVID years. And it's going to be very, very very
hard to recover from that. I know you and I
predicted it a lot at the time. We're seeing the
results of it now.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Here, we are living in a world that his lies
led us to. And I'm really looking forward to the
new crop of people. Obviously, Ja Poticharia is fantastic and
we can't wait to see him, you know, do what.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
He does best.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
One of the very people who Collins tried to silence.
So that's nice to see him rise. And in new
news today, nonetheless, I am very, very mad about it.
The New York Times has a guest essay by Ian
Lipkin and Ralph Barrick. Recent virus research should raise alarm.
(22:47):
In a series of experiments, the scientists show that a
virus that has a weird name can efficiently infect cells
of humans and a wide range of other animal cells.
The findings raised the possibility that humans and other animals
could be infected by this virus. This coronavirus belongs to
a subgroup of viruses that are classified alongside the one
that causes mers and that can have fatality rates far
(23:11):
higher than that of the virus that caused the COVID pandemic.
And wouldn't you know that a lot of people working
on this are associated with the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
And further, they are doing these experiments at a lab
that is not the proper level of security protocols to
protect against this kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
No lessons have been learned, and they're like, let's just
try this one more time.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
What are we doing?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yeah, I feel like we should let somebody know that
this is a bad idea and it could lead to
a worldwide outbreak. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
The scientists explain that the levels of security for research
laboratories go from BSL one the lowest.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
To BSL four.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
They explain that four are the ones that you see
in movies where scientists around and space suits and stuff
with hoses that covered these experiments were done. And I
believe BSL two a designation that is not standardized and
not formally recognized with centators for disease control and prevention,
and that we think is insufficient for work with potentially
(24:19):
dangerous respiratory viruses.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Level two Like you see the uber like you know,
eats delivery driver walking around in the background being like
this salad is this?
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Like what?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I can't I don't even know what the name of
this one is. I can't even read it out. It's
too many, too many figures. But I fear that in
the near future I will have to know the name
of hk U five CoV two because they.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Will have let it out of the laboratory.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Yeah, we'll just call it COVID twenty six.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
You know, can we not? We can?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
We cannot not. I mean this is horrifying.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I mean, I'm glad it's in the New York Times.
They're just like saying the thing, like, there's a lab
doing this stuff. We should be worried about it. So
we're ahead of the game on that front. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Well, I don't root for COVID twenty six, but I
will say that I will be pressuring you hardcore to
move to Florida should.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
This go down again.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, this time you cannot wait it out over.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
There, number two, we can't do it. Do it again.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Thanks for joining us on normally normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get
in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally
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